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Daily Review 01/12/2017

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, December 1st, 2017 - 50 comments
Categories: Daily review - Tags:

Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

50 comments on “Daily Review 01/12/2017 ”

  1. weka 1

    thanks for that photo micky, very sad. I hope they close some areas soon.

    • Andre 1.1

      Can’t help wondering if the areas that should be closed are the ones that don’t have it yet. So they don’t get it. Like in the Coromandel. It’s so widespread in west Auckland, even in town, that’s it’s hard to see any containment efforts being successful. For instance, there’s a kauri right beside the library in Glen Eden that appears to have dieback, and there’s a lot of foot traffic going past that one. And taking a guess from the patterns of diseased trees around my place, it spreads itself without human help, although clearly human foot traffic makes it spread faster

      In slightly better news, the trees on my place I treated in March appear to be in about the same condition as this time last year, whereas some of the ones I left untreated appear significantly worse. So I’m hopeful the treatment is doing something useful.

      The infamous Paturoa kauri looked ok last time I went past it a month or two ago, but the largish rimu that got ring-barked at the same time looks dead.

    • mauī 1.2

      I like the iwi idea to impose a rahui on the whole park even if it upsets a lot of people – clearly something is wrong and we either need to learn more about what is going on or it’s a sign our relationship with the forest is broken and needs to be rethought.

      • weka 1.2.1

        I don’t know the area and we don’t have kauri down here apart from sometimes in gardens, but it seems like big action is needed. Hard for the people that love those place, but might wake some people up too.

  2. rightly or wrongly 2

    Interesting information from Barry Soper today.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11950984

    Seems like if Ardern decides to step down then Peters is next in line to be PM.

    Apart from making a meal of comments by Ardern that the secret pages are only policy notes and nothing of public interest I wonder about the following:

    1 Why has it come out now?
    Soper is good mates with Peters and this has come out informally without Ardern’s blessing.
    His comment was that Ardern refused to publish it as she felt it would undermine her leadership.
    Is this Peter’s reason for it coming out now?

    2 Suppose Ardern did step down for some reason and Peters took the hot seat.
    – How would this be taken by the Greens – were they party to this secret agreement to have their old nemesis as the new PM?
    – Suppose in this Peters lead government how would Labour and Green Ministers feel to have Peters disciplining them when required?
    – Would this be a government of total dysfunction?

    • Ed 2.1

      This comment is fit for Kiwiblog
      Why don’t you post it there?

    • Carolyn_Nth 2.2

      If Ardern stepped down, Peters would only be temporary PM, surely, until Labour elected a new leader. Is there anything in the coalition agreement that says different?

      • James 2.2.1

        We don’t know – the PM won’t release it. Sorry won’t release the notes that supposedly contain this.

        • Carolyn_Nth 2.2.1.1

          You’re just making this up to stir.

          The published coalition agreement says:

          New Zealand First will have four Ministers inside Cabinet, including Rt Hon Winston Peters as Deputy Prime Minister, and one Parliamentary Under-Secretary.

          Both parties to this agreement recognise that Labour will be working with other parties to deliver a stable Government.

          Labour agrees that it will not enter into any other relationship agreement which is inconsistent with this agreement, and New Zealand First and Labour agree that they will each act in good faith to allow any other agreements to be complied with.

          • Anne 2.2.1.1.1

            James, r or w and all the other rwnjs plus their political masters are trying to convince the voters there are two Coalition Agreements… one published and one unpublished. It’s crap. There is one Coalition Agreement which has been published. There is also a document which at best could be described as a “memorandum of understanding”. It contains information and discussion points which are still to be worked through and some of them will never see the light of day. It is exactly the same as all political partys’ potential policy documents – and National will have produced many over the years – where viewpoints etc. are listed for future reference. Such documents are never published unless or until they become an official policy plank.

            • Grantoc 2.2.1.1.1.1

              Anne

              You write as though you have seen the ‘memorandum of understanding’ document. You seem definite and authoritative in this regard.

              So I have to ask – have seen it and read it?

          • rightly or wrongly 2.2.1.1.2

            Soper’s point is that this clause was in the hidden agreement clauses which haven’t been publicly released.

            • Pete 2.2.1.1.2.1

              So it’s in a hidden agreement which haven’t been publicly released.

              Should we ask Anne Tolley or Paula Bennett? They’re good with hidden, private information.

          • Pete 2.2.1.1.3

            Is there something wrong with making stuff up? John Key made stuff up which became headlines. Not the fact that he’d made it up but what he made up as if it were true.
            Reporters make stuff up. Is Soper making things up, just saying stuff?

        • Ed 2.2.1.2

          My goodness.
          Someone who believes a word that Soper writes.

    • Macro 2.3

      Yeah! It should be given to Bill!
      Oh wait a minute Winston is Deputy PM… Isn’t that what the job of Deputy entails?

      • rightly or wrongly 2.3.1

        Normally I would have thought, that a DPM’s job is to stands in temporarily when the PM is out of the country or is sick or similar.

        If the PM resigns then I would have thought that the Party they came from would elect a new leader who becomes PM – not accept the leader of another party as PM.

        You would end up in an odd situation that a new leader of Labour would not be PM.

        I struggle to see anyone apart from Winnie being happy with this situation.

        • Macro 2.3.1.1

          Gezz your thick! Almost as thick as two short planks – but that “quality” is to be given to Soper. Of course the party would select a new leader (and in the meantime the DPM will act as PM). See Carolyn’s comment above – the coalition agreement. NZ First works with Labour to deliver stable govt and is allocated 4 cabinet positions.

          • rightly or wrongly 2.3.1.1.1

            My reading of Soper’s words,

            “And if she for some reason can’t go on calling them herself then the coalition deal sees him stepping up to the plate – Prime Minister Winston Peters”

            doesn’t read as a temporary fill in position.

            It seems to infer that if Ardern steps down for any reason then Peters takes over on a permanent basis.

            On a temporary basis makes no sense as that is standard operating procedure – wouldn’t need to be written into the agreement.

            That is why I am surprised this isn’t seen as a big deal – a government that is lead by the leader of a 7% party.

            Very unorthodox.

            • McFlock 2.3.1.1.1.1

              Don’t worry yourself over it. It’s the unorthodox outcome of what someone heard about something that might not even exist, so… there are nearer risks to worry about. Like will billy no-matesd finally realise he needs friends?

        • McFlock 2.3.1.2

          So pm1 resigns, who is pm before the party elects a new leader?

    • Anne 2.4

      Oh dear, so they are already starting on that age-old tactic before she’s hardly got her feet under the table. Someone should publish the book with all the tricks in it so we can tick them off one by one as they are rolled out against Jacinda Ardern. It would be such fun.

      • greywarshark 2.4.1

        Anne
        Yes +100
        This blog is becoming the favourite playground watching of all the deviants while we innocent children go about our business of thinking about our country, and our government and how we can make it a great place to be in.

    • Interesting information from Barry Soper today.

      You’re operating a mistaken definition of the word “information” there. I don’t think it covers bullshit that some arsehole just makes up.

    • McFlock 2.6

      It’s come out now because that’s the rumour the nats told soper most recently.

      The only firm thing in there is that, shock horror, if the PM is incapacitated the deputy pm takes over. But the new pm still has to hold the coalition together, otherwise the government falls.

      The idea of “a government of total dysfunction” is a tory fantasy that grows more distant and pathetic by the day.

      • Ed 2.6.1

        Does Soper just write what Joyce or Bridges tell him?
        What did he and du Plessis do that makes them so compromised and corrupted?

        • McFlock 2.6.1.1

          Soper paints a picture of a young woman, insecure, anxious, accepting anonymous advice to foolishly try to conceal thing, and being walked over in negotiations by an older man.

          Either Soper genuinely sees that picture, or he’s lying. I suspect he genuinely sees that picture, but his perception is skewed because it’s at odds with everything I’ve heard of Ardern, informally.

          I suspect Soper was vulnerable to this non-story because he’s sexist, but also because tories are unfamiliar with the concept of self-reflection and self-recrimination, so take any mention of nerves or anxiety as a sign of weakness (contrast McNamara and Kissinger).

    • Et Tu Brute 2.7

      Take that story with a grain of salt. Besides cognitive bias readers may bring to it, there is little credible information to be taken from it.

      Think about it. The chances Soper has a copy of this clause is zilch – otherwise it would be front page news. So it was orally passed on to him. Did the leak have the clause memorized, or did the leak repeat the gist of alleged clause? How accurate was it? And how well did Soper understand this already third hand information?

      We’re talking about an alleged legal document where the exact words and sentences matter. Is Winston just to fill the gap, or is it a long term thing? Have the Greens agreed? Is this only in particular circumstances? etc…

      Then you need to look at motives and how this third hand information got to Soper. At best it is a Chinese whisper of legitimate information. Maybe someone greasing up to Soper? Otherwise it is a misinformation campaign trying to get the coalition to reveal the real agreement. Either way not gold plated information. If it was a stock tip, I wouldn’t do anything with my money.

      • Ed 2.7.1

        It’s just Soper doing what he does. Acting as a conduit for National propaganda.
        What a sad excuse for a journalist and a man.

  3. Ed 3

    What do the National Party have on Soper?
    Something indiscreet?

  4. Ed 4

    Apricots 14 days early in Cromwell .
    The climate is totally wrecked.
    And the media just talks about the weather.

    Wake up NZ.
    In every article expect journalists to say 2 words. Climate change.

  5. eco Maori 5

    I stayed away from commenting on this old_______ Now it is common knowledge that the Deputy Prime minster is next in line for Prime minister !!!! so why is anyone giving this bull____ article any thought is beyond my logic . As for barry soper he is a ancient fossil who hasn’t figured out that this is the 21st century and the new generation of leaders have not got the time to play marbles with him as we are fixing all the ______ ups that he and his dum ass national party have done to OUR beautiful Country Ana to kai

    • Ed 5.1

      Soper is compromised, I sense.

      • james 5.1.1

        Second attempt in a single thread.

        Since you are talking about a real person, and his career – perhaps you might want to have more than a biased “sense”.

        • solkta 5.1.1.1

          I think it is a bit like sensing a brick wall when you smack your head into it – ie rather obvious.

        • John up North 5.1.1.2

          James, you seemed to have no concept of a person and their career when you quite happily spread the billshit regarding Golriz Ghahraman.

          Since you were talking about a real person, and her career – perhaps you might want to have more that a biased “sense”

          Adjust your skirts James, your hypocrisy is showing.

          • Macro 5.1.1.2.1

            +1

          • The decrypter 5.1.1.2.2

            he he.-funny.

          • Muttonbird 5.1.1.2.3

            These National party aligned hacks once had status, privilege and inside information.

            Now they are out in the cold and having to relearn how to deal with real and honest people in government. Now they have nothing but scraps to feed off, not like when government ministers and partisan senior civil servants handed them explosive exclusives on a plate.

            It’s hard when you have to do some work all of a sudden, and it’s showing.

          • James 5.1.1.2.4

            I was quoting in each instance and pointing to articles and speeches.

            No hypocrisy.

        • Ed 5.1.1.3

          Is Metiria a real person?
          Is Golriz a real person?

          Pot.
          Kettle.
          Black.

          Rearrange these and add some to make a sentence.

          • James 5.1.1.3.1

            Of course they are both real people.

            Didn’t the greens do well.

            • Drowsy M. Kram 5.1.1.3.1.1

              Well enough, i.e. better than the National party opposition would have liked.

              Oh, for a Blue/Green coalition government – what might have been…

              • Muttonbird

                Interesting point. I imagine the treatment of Ghahraman by RWNJs would be a lot different has the Greens roiled over and formed a false government with National.

    • Chris 5.2

      “As for barry soper he is a ancient fossil who hasn’t figured out that this is the 21st century and the new generation of leaders”

      Kind of ironic post given your criticising Soper for this over Peters

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