“In other words, simply shutting down those farms is likely to be more beneficial to the local economy than letting them continue to operate. And that's without even considering the value of the carbon stored.
Looked at like this, the message is clear: the sooner marginal farms shut down and are converted to trees, the better off we'll all be.”
define marginal?..as stated last night an assessment of where (and what) the forestry needs to occur is the missing piece of the puzzle…what this badly designed policy does is rely on 'the market'…isnt that what has (largely) brought us to this point?
Farmers have long demanded the right to do as they please, run whatever they please, sell whenever they please to whom ever they please.
Why all this anguish now? Forestry isn't forcing farmers to sell. It's the farmers' choice. They are the authors of their own fate, just as they've always professed.
That may or may not be the case but thats not the point…if the purpose of the policy is best possible outcome re climate change and society then it needs redesigning
Rural communities have been gutted by incoming industrial dairying haven't they?
Was Government policy "redesigned" when country halls and schools closed because dairying supplanted sheep farming and the communities that went with that?
On the contrary , rural communities have been growing on the back of the dairy conversion boom…as a Southland Councillor you should be well aware of that…for all the problems associated with dairy, jobs isnt one of them.
Jobs are only one aspect of community. Ask the sheep farmers if their communities are as good as they were before dairying arrived. Go back even further, to when trees were the dominant feature of the landscape; ask iwi if modern communities are better than those that existed before sheep and cattle, deforestation and river-straightening, when deer, rabbits, stoats and possums were the animals of choice.
I have neighbours who vowed never to convert to 'bloody cows'…guess what?, over the past 2 decades everyone of them have succumbed…because they had no choice…land values and inputs increased to a point where sheep and beef were no longer viable.
No need to be slippery Robert…they had the same control over their lives as the rest of us…bugger all. The 'Market' drives the choices whether we like it or not…and the government is supposed to ensure the best outcomes for society (as a whole) by regulating that market….thats where the billion trees programme falls over
Perhaps the imperative to plant trees rather than run livestock is bigger than the market?
I do know what you are getting at, Pat, but the details need to be thrashed out, I reckon, as the final result is critical to us all. Pines are the problem here, I reckon, but I have a theory about all this and it doesn't fit anyone else's, involving the short time we have to get trees of any sort into the ground and what might happen if things unravel and large forests are left to mature in their own way. Next, we need to talk about wilding pines
Re the billion trees programme , the details should have been thrashed out before implementation…and they argue they were but if thats the case theyre incompetent as it is patently not fit for purpose
If farmers had adopted agroforestry practices that have long been promoted, this situation would not have presented; our landscapes would be treed and stocked; the best of both worlds. Why do you think this didn't happen, Pat? Lack of vision? Fear of trees?
I cant tell you why agroforestry wasnt adopted as the standard practice in years past but might guess it was related to a dearth of clairvoyancy… I can however explain the removal of the multitude of woodlots and sheterbelts that has occurred in tandem with dairy conversions ( compounded by council austerity programmes)….budgets for finance.
Rural land prices increased when the recent governments allowed foreign ownership.Intensification and industrial farming was a response (to reward the investors of managed farms)
Policy response would be to prohibit overseas ownership of rural land.(including forestry)
"Policy response would be to prohibit overseas ownership of rural land."
Farmers oppose that. There's big money overseas and farmers should be able to sell to the highest bidder. Isn't that what farmers have long professed? Weren't they supported by the National Party in that?
But that would reduce food production,which is a no no under the paris agreement.
How would that look on JA cv.
This Agreement, in enhancing the implementation of the Convention, including its objective, aims to strengthen the global response to the threat of climate change, in the context of sustainable development and efforts to eradicate poverty, including by:(a)Holding the increase in the global average temperature to well below 2 °C above pre-industrial levels and to pursue efforts to limit the temperature increase to 1.5 °C above pre-industrial levels, recognizing that this would significantly reduce the risks and impacts of climate change;(b)Increasing the ability to adapt to the adverse impacts of climate change and foster climate resilience and low greenhouse gas emissions development, in a manner that does not threaten food production;
The agreement doesn't demand no change at all to specific farms or regions, it requires the amount of food produced be kept the same. If food production is doubled in one place it can be halved in another. The choice to sell a farm is the farmers; no one is coercing them to sell. I've heard farmers claim repeatedly that they are feeding the world; has that admirable aim changed, just because forestry money arrived on the scene? In any case; food for whom? Does the Agreement aim to sustain the Chinese appetite for powdered milk, or is it requiring that land feeds those who live on it?
Farmers don't have to sell. If they believe they are morally bound to produce food for the world, they'll stick to farming and tell the rapacious foresters to look elsewhere for land to grow trees. Nobody's forcing them to sell, are they. Nobody's making them go against their ethics, are they?
Having scored truckloads of compensation over mycoplasma bovis, it may be that they have developed a deep and abiding need for the contemporary equivalent of sheep retention money – "Pay us not to plant trees!" – compensation being a crop that eats no fodder at all.
It would be nice to see a bit more in the way of integrating trees with other farming, rather than pretending mutually exclusive monocultures are the only options.
Exactly, Stuart. Once the frothing subsides, your suggestion should come to the fore and be acted upon by those innovative farmers who can famously adapt to any situation.
But of course it won’t Robert. First of all a few generations down the track they will be asking why this generation let our valuable farming land required for food be planted in trees. Our cities have already poured concrete over the best of it. And secondly every twenty years those trees get milled releasing all that carbon again. Solution, plant twice as many on a decreasing land mass to compensate. Doesn’t sound bright to me Robert. But you’re just happy sniping at present day farmers. I guess somewhere in the future we’ll learn how to eat trees Looking forward to that.
I agree with Ian. New View seems to be ironically limited in vision.
The way the climate looks to be going, how can NV assume that there will be any 20-year cycles? We will all be bloody lucky if we can survive one, and by then the second may be but a dream…
Required for food, or required for export dollars, New view?
Cities are not designed to be integral to the land, I agree with you there, but human habitation could be, with designers able to imagine such things creating such habitations. As for 20 years from now, my guess is the situation will be so different from now, the "certainty" of milling will be long overturned and new ways of managing trees capes will be in place. I'm keen to help with that, even at this early stage. As for "sniping at farmers" I'm not doing that at all; farmers have always claimed the right to sell and I'm not criticising them for that, just citing the behaviour.
Not much of your reply makes sense to me Robert. We need the land for food production. Exports of timber are ok if you’re not importing inferior food. As for farmers selling this land to foresters for a fat profit, that’s only one side Robert. That means that the foresters are out bidding any farmers for land. It’s putting an unsustainable value on land. And means that land won’t be used for farming again. You and your mates might think that’s great but future generations won’t thank you. The steeper country is suitable for trees if they can stop the rubbish clogging our rivers and causing massive damage as happened in the Gisborne area. Multiply that problem thousands of times Robert and don’t tell me they’ll have it sorted in ten years. Bullshit they will. But you know what Robert farmers will have their emissions sorted out in ten years and they won’t be relying on your help that’s for sure.
My reply to you, New view, presents a new view and that's why it makes not much sense to you. There is ample land in New Zealand for food production. Some of that is being repurposed for growing trees, a necessary phenomenon globally. You claim that once land is forested, it will never again be used for farming. Kaiangaroa, apparently, shows that to be untrue. All farmland in New Zealand was once forested land, remember. You say, foresters are outbidding farmers as if that's a new phenomenon, but dairying created the same issue; dairy men outbid sheep men, or horticulturalists and sent the price of land rocketing up. Whoever's backed by the banks, favoured by the Government of the day, gets the land. Conventional forestry management is ill-conceived, in my view; there are very effective ways to manage forests and those ways have to become the way forward for humans everywhere. Food comes from forests also, New view; your, "can't eat trees" is petty and simplistic. Ever eaten sago? The fruits and nuts of any trees? Have you ever eaten a leaf? A fungus? You need to let your imagination free, New view, as do we all, in order to see the potential in forests. They're going to be our new home and our hope for the future. There'll still be cows, don't worry, only they'll be creatures of the forest edge, as their ancestors were, feeding on a vast range of vegetation, rather than confined to a paddock and restricted to one or two plants. Farmers might well have their emissions sorted out in 10 years, New view, but farming will have been transformed beyond recognition for that to have happened. That transformation is underway now, driven not by farmers, but by necessity; the approaching collapse of the biological environment and the end of the golden weather. Trees will see us through, if we're smart enough to work with them and learn from their long experience of weathering the storms of change.
Good rolling sheep and cattle country clogged with low profit pine, which is what is happening at present, isn’t the idillic ‘pick the nuts and see the cow sitting under a shady tree’ scenario’. It isn’t what this Government is sanctioning Robert. Nice but delusional.
I know it's not and I said it's not, New view, but the way ahead is forward into trees, not back into livestock. Pinus radiate and it's brutal management is the worst of choices and doesn't represent the model I'm promoting, but neither foes livestock farming. Foresters have a long way to go to up-grade their practices to something appropriate for the situation we find ourselves in now, but at least they are planting trees; moving them from monocultural thinking to multi-faceted, forest-based thinking will be aided by circumstance, in my view; the climate and the change in thinking resulting from that will force changes rapidly and that's what I'm banking on and that's why I cheer-on the planting of trees. Wilding pines reclaiming high country sheep stations is a good example of marginal land being turned into forestry, wouldn't you say?
I’m not against trees Robert, but miss using the use of them can be as damaging as miss used farm land. Wilding pines sounds great until they spread out of control and take even the best flat land. A few years back I was in the Tekapo basin. That iconic area where there was an uproar over the Dairy farming. Well what was evident there was the wilding pines creeping all over that iconic landscape like thistles. Not what everyone had in mind I’m sure, so no I wouldn’t say that’s a good idea.
Trees spreading by their own efforts are challenging alright! The simplistic view sees them as a threat, but utilising their energy and drive to spread would be the wisest approach, in my opinion. Adding to the wilding forests would be the path to take; use the natural force, augment it with seedings of many other trees, have people out there managing those forests, as described before. This is a budding idea, but needs to be explored, given the alternative involves huge cost, enormous use of herbicides (arboricides?) the destruction en mass of trees and the continuation of livestock farming, itself a forest-destroying activity. The iconic Tekapo landscape would surely be a forested one, not a tussock one? I bet there is evidence of forests throughout the area from a time before humans began their landscape modifying burning, bulldozing, grazing and spraying. At what point do we declare something "iconic"?
A natural native forest maybe but certainly not fucking wilding pines. They are about as iconic as the weeds in your garden. As usual we agree on some things and disagree on most.
Wilding pines are not useful in the conventional sense; they don't produce straight timber for a start, but we are not thinking deeply or strategically enough about them. If we regard them as an enemy that has to be destroyed, we will lose the battle we've set ourselves. Better to harness the irrepressible force that they are and use them for our benefit, somehow. It's that "somehow" we have to explore. To date, we just try to poison them to death. That's an approach that has too much collateral damage, imo and reflects a mindset that has brought us to the place we are now in, globally. The destructive thinking; kill, burn, destroy, eradicate, that much of humanity has come to adopt has brought us to the brink of self-destruction; we've applied our smash and grab approach to everything bar the few organisms we like and it's ending badly. I'm suggesting taking a different approach and looking at all the "weeds" of the world, not as enemies, but as allies. It's not immediately apparent how this would work, in specific situations such as wilding pines, but that's because we haven't applied our clever minds to the problem using that lens; we've just stuck with the "bash our way through" mentality and that's left much of the world bashed-up.
I agree. The pine seedlings that were stealthily appearing in the Tekapo basin were having to be chipped out or cut before they seeded. An onerous task. A fine line indeed between them being servant or master. Why do I not have the faith in any Government monitoring that properly. This Government couldn’t even employ contractors capable of keeping tree seedlings alive before they got them in the ground. You are a true optimist Robert. We need that but we also need realists so we embark on projects that will be successful and not a waste of tax payers money.
Those projects you allude to; they need to be conceived in a new light now. There's an imperative, imo, the risk of environmental collapse through species extinction and the risk of ruinous climatic conditions all round. Preventing and/or preparing for those eventualities should be driving all of our projects from here on in. Conventional ways of looking at things and projects based on that thinking have to be re-evaluated in light of the new conditions, I reckon. If we need to quickly grow forests in order to stave-off destructive conditions, then we'll have to think fast and think outside of the box. I know I'm being provocative with my claims about forests, but now is the time for change in how we think and behave. We're at the pointy end now and better act quick-smart if we are not to end up wallowing in regret.
In any case, there's as much carbon in the roots, which don't get milled, as there is in the above-ground part of the tree. That doesn't include the massive, extensive fungal nets below ground that carry carbon to and fro between trees in a forest. So, carbon stays in the soil, in a well managed forestry situation (there are very few of these, btw. Our challenge is to master forest management and lead the world in that. The knowledge is there, or mostly, all we have to do is be awake to the potentials.
True, but as the stump rots down over a decade or so some of the carbon will be lost back to the atmosphere. Timber used in soundly designed buildings however can be held for centuries. I can see the day coming when we build houses log cabin style just to use lots of wood.
The carbon in roots stays put and it's a significant amount, especially when forests are replanted as trees are cut; coppicing of course, is the best way to manage forests; the roots stay in place and wood is grown for use in construction. If we can fill the soil with roots and their associated carbon-bearing fungal networks, while harvesting wood from the tops, we'll be on the way to success. Grass just doesn't do the trick.
Less red meat more vegetables. If the future of humanity requires this then fine by me.
Sorry mate,you need a bigger lifestyle change,the undercarriage has to go.
a child (an average for developed countries of 58.6 tonnes CO2-equivalent (tCO2e) emission reductions per year), vs eating a plant-based diet (0.8 tCO2e saved per year)
We all need a bigger lifestyle change. This "civilised" lifestyle of ours is wrecking the place. Would you change your lifestyle, Poission, if it meant averting ruin?
yep I drove recently down to murch past Tapawera and was blown away by the hectares of hop posts, mud and development – all along the riverbank for kilometers – hope it doesn't flood
Hmm I'm not sure how beneficial to the local rural economy or community this actually is… Family owned sheep and beef farm, they likely spend money in the local town, kids go to the small rural school etc basically a community with Teachers, a Vet etc etc
Farm gets sold and planted in pine likely to a foreign owned entity who collect the credits etc. Only sporadic low paid work in the forest pruning and the like, people leave through lack of work school closes community dies…
Seen it happen and im not convinced that it's a good thing for NZ.
That's correct, Cricklewood. The present model is poor. A new way with forests is what's required. People have to be living amongst them. Communities have to be integrated into forests, not sidelined by them. The same is true of farming, yet changing farming trends drove people out of the countryside also. The whole model needs to be changed significantly. Small, thriving communities linked by networks of communication and travel need to be established everywhere, with people living meaningful, engaged lives that benefit the environments they're/we're living in. Presently, farms exclude people, aside from the very few rural people who own farms or work on them. This all must change.
Yip farmers can sell to who they like but they are being added and abeted by this government's policy settings subsidising foreign buyers to buy quality land . It would be an easy fix shifting subsidies to class 4 hard hill country or worse.
Supposedly big on community but you do give a fuck if its farmers . We cant all live in the trees sucking the rat payers tit.
They'll be appreciative of that help then, I suppose.
I'd like to see forests being planted on all land that's less than ideal for livestock-farming; the rougher stuff that ought never to have been cleared of forest in the first place.
Agriculture has destroyed much of the planet's forests and the rate of destruction is escalating, taking out vast swathes of what forest remains. There's a need for a re-think. Farmers might like to be part of that review, rather than defending the status quo, particularly because they have dominion over so much land. Townies haven't the same potential to effect change. Then there are those who don't give a rat's tit
We agree then . So you'll be using you considerable skills to get the message out that subsidizing forest owners to purchase good quality farm land so they can blanket plant is bad policy . A more considered approach is needed.
NZF floating an abortion reform referendum is about as dumb as it gets. Time for that was during the coalition negotiations after the last election. Unless their agreement with Labour contains an enabling clause!
News tonite said they will decide by Thursday whether to go for it. Wish someone would tell the truth & call the right to lifers closet fascists. Being polite around that has gone on far too long. I guess the upside of a referendum is it would flush them out into the open.
I hope Winston slaps down his cowboy. If the cowboy isn't alone in the NZF caucus, W may have to use his lawyer stance to remind the loose cannons that their electability depends on adhering to the coalition agreement through to full term. I can't see him using this to establish an independent position for NZF this far out from the election.
The abortion thing has been in the wings for a while, and NZ1 is a traditional conservative party.
One option is that labgrn never talked with NZ1 about the issue. This seems unlikely.
Another option is that NZ1 bit their tongue, but when it was announced everything came to a head within the party and overflowed into the "referendum" stalling tactic. Possible.
Another option is that it's NZ1 differentiating itself (and nabbing some of the fundy vote the nats are hoping for with a new party) in a way that won't affect the outcome – they'll go for a referendum, be outraged it doesn't happen, the thing goes to conscience votes and NZ1 gets outflanked by a few progressive nats. Law change still happens, and NZ1 gets to build its base a bit. Possible – they're not as silly as simon.
Yeah that all seems feasible. Depends if Winston sees more advantage in being partisan than consolidating his gains via constructive politics. If the polls are making him paranoid, the former option gets preference.
I imagine all the idiots in the Labour Party who thought they could go into a Government with Winston will be regretting that they didn't take note of what John Key said.
In 2008, before the election, he said he would not form a Government with Winston's mob because he couldn't trust him. As was always the case Key was a hell of a lot smarter than the fools in the Labour Party. You can't trust Winston. However the Labour Party, at least the sensible ones, preferred to get into the bed with Winston than stay, where they deserved to be, on the Opposition benches. The sillier ones, like the PM, probably believed that Winston really thought she was capable of being PM rather than just be Winston's puppet.
Regardless of what they thought they have simply been reminded of that old saw. If you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas. Itchy are you Jacinda?
He must be worried about his job or something, I hate the "but it's just a joke" excuse, at least GG Allin was unapologetic and believed he was making some kind of art (& did it first). All the GG copycats are pathetic.
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Divided Loyalties: Can the Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, be relied upon? That’s what the boys and girls at Foggy Bottom and the Pentagon needed to be reassured about. Because, from the perspective of Washington, it’s looking more and more like Jacinda Ardern and her Labour Party comrades are getting ready ...
This handy Queer Theory Glossary is from thetranswidow.com In case you’ve had trouble keeping up with the spate of new queer theory terms, here’s a handy glossary for your reference. Queer – A straight person with an interesting haircut. Non-binary/genderqueer – A chubby young female, typically 16-28, who has ...
by Daphna Whitmore US social psychologist and author Jonathan Haidt spoke on 1 August in Auckland to a crowd of around one thousand people. He is best known for his bookThe Coddling of the American Mind which examines the new climate of trigger warnings and acute sensitivity of Gen Z. ...
What an extraordinarily depressing experience it is to be compelled to watch, at 12,000 miles distance, the contortions and machinations of the British political class as they set about their determined attempt to overturn the decision taken by the British people that they wish to leave the European Union. The ...
The winter grazing issue is becoming a highly sensitised one that I hope will not become so politicised that it delays solutions and results in the suicides of some very stressed farmers.Winter grazing has hit the headlines after a determined campaign, including the release of a video of some very ...
by Don Franks Way back when British guitar virtuoso Joe Brown was a beginning session guy he got to back a visiting American artist. Young Joe was an able technician but had yet to learn some points of professionalism. Part way through “Five foot high and rising” Joe tired of ...
Since scientists started studying climate change, they have warned that it will reduce food production. And now, its happening:The climate crisis is damaging the ability of the land to sustain humanity, with cascading risks becoming increasingly severe as global temperatures rise, according to a landmark UN report compiled by some ...
The Abortion Legislation Bill just passed its first reading, 94-23. Its a far bigger margin than I expected, even allowing for the Winston factor, and it reflects the overwhelming support there is in this country for reform. but that support isn't a new thing - it has existed for literally ...
The Justice Committee has called for submissions on the Referendums Framework Bill. The Bill does what it says on the label - establishes a framework for referenda. Things you may want to address in your submission: Whether the bill should apply only at the 2020 election, or whether it should ...
The Thompson and Clark / MBIE spying scandal continues to result in fallout, this time in the form of a report on the implementation of MBIE's "Operation Exploration", its internal operation to enforce the infamous Anadarko Amendment which criminalised protests against the oil industry. MBIE's enforcement operation was tainted by ...
So, Winston Peters is defending his last-minute demand for a referendum on abortion by claiming he was "blindsided" by the bill. Really? The bill is a government bill. It has been working through the cabinet approval process since December last year. As part of that process, NZ First was consulted, ...
The Green Part has been accused of lack of transparency in two recent situations. The first was the claimed media lockdown during Green's annual conference and the second was Julie Ann Genter's refusal to release a letter she had sent to Phil Twyford.I do get frustrated when journalist's succumb to ...
The Green Part has been accused of lack of transparency in two recent situations. The first was the claimed media lockdown during Green's annual conference and the second was Julie Ann Genter's refusal to release a letter she had sent to Phil Twyford.I do get frustrated when journalist's succumb to ...
Last week, the ongoing democracy protests in Hong Kong saw a pro-Hong Kong student assaulted at the University of Auckland. The Chinese consulate in Auckland followed this up with a press release "express[ing] its appreciation to the students for their spontaneous patriotism" - effectively condoning the assault and inciting further ...
Only those who close their eyes and minds to the evidence can still be in any doubt that we are facing a climate change crisis. The evidence is conclusive that the world is not only getting inexorably hotter, but also that the rising temperatures are creating a number of other ...
Rural communities are wailing about forestry conversions "taking land out of production" and putting it into locking up carbon. Its driven purely by economics: there's more money and lower costs in carbon than in sheep or beef, and if carbon prices rise, there'll be more net money than dairy even. ...
This week, the government introduced its (underwhelming) Abortion Legislation Bill. And despite having negotiated the text of the bill through the coalition process, Winston Peters is now suggesting that he will demand a referendum on it:NZ First leader Winston Peters has hinted that his party may only support the Government's ...
Blowing-Up The House: Is Winston Peters planning to put himself at the head of all those New Zealanders who refuse to countenance the Coalition Government caving-in to the Ihumatao protesters? The most effective way of doing this would be to issue Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern with an ultimatum. If she ...
Last night the police dramatically incresed their numbers at Ihumātao, shoving over protestors and threatening them with arrest. Despite police talk about the need to maintain "public order" and prevent a "breach of the peace", there appeared to be absolutely no justification for this: the protest camp is, was, and ...
Opportunities to dodge tax are shrinking with the completion of a new tax agreement with Switzerland, Revenue Minister Stuart Nash announced today. Mr Nash and the Swiss Ambassador David Vogelsanger have today signed documents to update the double tax agreement (DTA). The previous DTA was signed in 1980. “Double tax ...
The Council of Licenced Firearm Owners (COLFO) is urging firearms owners to pass on information to the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the Attack on Christchurch Mosques now that the period for submissions has been extended to 27 September. ...
An application was filed in the Employment Relations Authority in Wellington today, seeking an injunction to prevent the Board of the New Zealand Nurses Organisation from removing the President from office. ...
The Government’s commitment to support literacy and numeracy training in the workplace is a strong signal from Government on recognising the importance of upskilling, reskilling and increasing productivity alongside their commitment to address the challenges ...
“The infrastructure sector sees a major role for the New Zealand Infrastructure Commission/Te Waihanga in lifting the nation’s sagging infrastructure performance,” says Paul Blair, incoming CEO of Infrastructure NZ. ...
The AA is calling on the Government to bring forward critical highway projects while time is spent properly developing the plans for a rapid transit system in Auckland. ...
Between 2015/16 and 2017/18, DHBs spent $280 million treating patients due to adverse drug reactions, reveals the New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union in its latest briefing paper on health productivity . ...
The Pay Equity Coalition Auckland (PECA) is pleased the gender pay gap has decreased slightly. Statistics released today show the gap is now 11.9%, nearly 2 percent less than last year. ...
The Council of Licenced Firearm Owners (COLFO) is urging firearms owners to make sure they pass on any information they have to the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the Attack on Christchurch Mosques before submissions close tomorrow (Friday). ...
The big electricity companies consider solar energy “disruptive” and want pricing to suppress it. In contrast, advocates of local energy say that solar, energy efficiency, and other local energy solutions are the cheapest ways to reduce carbon emissions. ...
The Earthquake Commission and Shine Lawyers are delighted to announce that EQC has reached an agreement with the Gibling family, agreeing to cover the cost of repairs of remaining earthquake damage on their property. ...
Four months into the inquiry, the Royal Commission is gathering significant information and continues to receive valuable submissions from the public, from current and former State servants, experts and community groups. ...
While Fish & Game New Zealand is pleased to see Federated Farmers Environment Spokesperson Chris Allen say that 'we all want good, fresh water', he conveniently overlooks some key facts. ...
What: Wellington demo “Save the Amazon Forest/Salve a Amazônia!” When: Friday, 6 September 2019 from 12:30-13:30 Where: Embassy of Brazil in Wellingtona ...
Rt Hon Trevor Mallard, Speaker of the New Zealand House of Representatives, welcomes the visit of His Excellency Eduardo Ferro Rodrigues, President of the Assembly of the Republic of Portugal. ...
A cross political Mental Health and Addictions Wellbeing group will be launched on Wednesday 28 August hosted by Sir John Kirwan and Moe Milne (ONZM) who have both been at the forefront of our country’s often difficult conversations about mental ...
Confirmation that the government will be progressing an independent Parliamentary Budget Office is great news for democracy and transparency, Federated Farmers says. ...
At first glance, Simon Bridges’ strident opposition to the government’s proposal to establish an independent office to cost political parties’ election spending plans looks childish and petty. ...
Euthanasia-Free NZ is appalled that Parliament spent so little time debating Part 2 of the End of Life Choice Bill and voted to leave it full of holes. ...
Jordan Williams, a spokesman for the Auckland Ratepayers’ Alliance and its nationwide sister group the New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union is slamming Auckland Mayor Phil Goff for his comments today that John Tamihere would need the Government’s support to ...
A ‘one size fits all’, inflexible and punitive regulatory regime for water quality just gets backs - and costs - up and most importantly will not work, Federated Farmers says. ...
Mediation yesterday between secondary principals and the government has resulted in a deal that the principals' negotiating team is recommending to its members. ...
Clubs New Zealand welcomes the decision of Justice Minister Andrew Little to put forward a bill amending the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act to allow all licensed premises to remain open for Rugby World Cup matches. ...
The Australia and New Zealand Ministerial Forum on Food Regulation has ordered a review looking at labelling of added sugars in food and drinks. An option under investigation is ‘a pictorial approach applied to sugary beverages / sugar-sweetened beverages’ ...
Labour market data released by Statistics New Zealand today indicates that a gender pay gap persists in New Zealand, despite improvement in some areas. ...
In the midst of the 6th Great Extinction Event the coalition, STOP Trashing Our Planet is urging voters to take full responsibility for the legacy we are leaving our children. ...
LGNZ will carefully consider the proposed National Policy Statement on Urban Development (NPS-UD) to assess if it meets the Government’s aim of enabling urban development or simply adds more red tape to the planning process. ...
Statistics out today from the Government show that the gender wage imbalance, or gap, in the average wage is 11.9%, a strong 2 percentage point improvement from 13.9% last year. The gender pay imbalance in the median wage is 9.3%. ...
Newstalk ZB Drive host and Herald on Sunday columnist Heather du Plessis-Allan is taking on the challenge of keeping 2019 Auckland Mayoral contenders Phil Goff and John Tamihere in line and on point in tonight’s live NZ Herald Newstalk ZB debate. ...
After twenty years Napier residents have endured heavy sleep and health disruptive noise and air pollution from freight trucks gridlock operations to and from the Napier port and other regions. ...
The EMA says much is riding on the board and chief executive of the new National Infrastructure Commission (NIC) announced by Infrastructure Minister Hon Shane Jones today, with a difficult task ahead to deliver on its purpose. ...
The Public Service Association welcomes the introduction of workplace standards by the State Services Commission that make it clear public services should expect positive and safe workplaces. ...
The Financial Services Federation (FSF) - the voice of responsible lenders and leasing companies - and FinCap - working with consumers facing financial hardship - are signing a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) this Thursday 22 August in Auckland. It will ...
Wellington, 20 August 2019 — Lawyers for Vulnerable New Zealanders (LVNZ) has lent its support to the amendments proposed by MP Chris Penk to better protect vulnerable people from being coerced to end their lives under the End of Life Choice Bill, currently ...
The Government’s decision to establish and independent Parliamentary Budget Office, outside of Treasury, is a taxpayer victory and will improve democracy, says the New Zealand Taxpayers' Union . Taxpayers' Union spokesman Louis Houlbrooke says, “It's ...
The Taxpayers’ Union can reveal that the cost-benefit analysis prepared by Ministry of Transport and used to advise Ministers on the Government’s Clean Car Standard and ‘Feebate’ policies has serious flaws which undermine justifications for the ...
The Aotearoa New Zealand Association of Social Workers (ANZASW) welcomes new proposals for prison reform put forward by the Minister of Corrections and non-government organisations recently. ...
The New Zealand Maori Council has called on the nation to address all forms of racism and not to shy away from an honest conversation about where it’s taking hold. The call comes after the Nelson Club decided to keep a member after his comments became ...
Wellington (20 August 2019): The New Zealand Initiative enthusiastically welcomes the Coalition Government’s announcement of an Independent Parliamentary Budget Office. Finance Minister Grant Robertson and Associate Finance Minister James Shaw ...
Drs Say No agree with Chris Penk’s amendment to protect vulnerable patients from coercion, although the organisation still maintains that no safe euthanasia legislation can ever be drafted and continues to urge MPs to defeat the End of Life Choice Bill. ...
The Chief Ombudsman Peter Boshier says the Northland Regional Corrections Facility is persisting with policies that are preventing it from achieving its full potential. ...
The second national hui in the Māori-led Inquiry into Oranga Tamariki concluded yesterday ahead of schedule after a capacity audience formally ratified the terms of reference that determines the scope and purpose of the independent investigation ...
Forest & Bird says WWF-NZ's plan for protecting Māui dolphins is based on testing unproven methods on a species that is almost extinct, and is urging the Government to reject the proposal. ...
National MP Nick Smith has lodged a serious accusation against Parliament's Speaker calling him "biased" after once again being booted out of the debating chamber. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sunanda Creagh, Head of Digital Storytelling Last weekend, hundreds of thousands of people again took to the streets in Hong Kong to protest against the government – the 11th straight weekend of demonstrations that began in June over a proposed extradition bill. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Scott Hamilton, Strategic Advisory Panel Member, Australian-German Energy Transition Hub, University of Melbourne Australia’s primary federal renewable energy target – to have 33 terawatts of renewable energy by 2020 – has essentially been achieved. There is much uncertainty as to what is ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Lewis Mitchell, Senior Lecturer in Applied Mathematics, University of Adelaide I swear by Hypatia, by Lovelace, by Turing, by Fisher (and/or Bayes), and by all the statisticians and data scientists, making them my witnesses, that I will carry out, according to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Blaxland, Professor, Strategic and Defence Studies Centre, Australian National University Just when we thought Australia was getting serious about shifting priorities away from the Middle East to its own neighbourhood, the prime minister has announced another Middle East step up. Australia ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Brendan Keogh, ARC DECRA Fellow, Queensland University of Technology In the last three months, the Australian Classification Board has “refused classification” for at least four video games – effectively banning them in Australia. The latest is zombie-survival shooter DayZ. Despite being previously ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Collins, Professor in Nutrition and Dietetics, University of Newcastle The Heart Foundation now recommends full-fat milk, cheese and yoghurt or reduced-fat options as part of its updated dietary advice released yesterday. This moves away from earlier advice that recommended only reduced-fat ...
Business is Boring is a weekly podcast series presented by The Spinoff in association with Callaghan Innovation. Host Simon Pound speaks with innovators and commentators focused on the future of New Zealand. This week he talks to Paris Georgia co-founders Paris Mitchell Temple and Georgia Cherrie.This week’s podcast features a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Former deputy prime minister Tim Fischer, who has died aged 73 of cancer, leaves a political and personal legacy as a man of courage, conviction and congeniality. The support that Fischer as National Party leader ...
One part telenovela, one part family drama, one part addictive love story. Sam Brooks reviews Jane the Virgin, the great show with an unfortunate name that should be your next Netflix binge.The following piece contains very mild spoilers for Jane the Virgin.While watching the last season of Jane the Virgin, ...
Before Zumba, before Just Dance, before it was cool again to move in public group settings, there was Jump Jam. Madeleine Chapman reflects.Jump Jam entered the lives of New Zealand kids in 2001, a year filled with historic cultural movements. Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone was released in 2001; ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Felicity Jensz, Research associate professor, University of Münster Donald Trump is not the first US President to make an offer of buying Greenland from Denmark – but he might be the last. Home of some 56,000 people and around 80% covered by ...
We review the entire country and culture of New Zealand, one thing at a time. Today, Tara Ward taste-tests the best hot chips in the country. Everyone loves a hot chip because they’re a) hot, and b) a chip, but there’s nothing more disappointing than a bad chip experience. A ...
Sky Network Television has written down the value of large parts of its business and scrapped paying a dividend as it changes direction to counter falling pay TV subscribers. ...
Strict word limits for Māori translations of local body election candidate profiles is a form of "institutional racism" and should be changed, a candidate says. ...
ACT Party leader David Seymour's voluntary euthanasia bill has cleared another stage in Parliament with a suite of changes aimed at securing support. ...
A finalist for New Zealander of the Year for her work with Māori smokers is at war with academics because her research is funded by tobacco giant Philip Morris. Guyon Espiner reports. ...
Keith Rankin’s Chart Analysis Auckland Māori exodus after 2014The 2018 census has had such a low compliance rate, that it really acted as a large convenience sample (therefore a biased sample) of the New Zealand population. (See my Census Survey from March 2018.) Despite the assurances we are getting, ...
Editor’s Note: Here below is a list of the main issues currently under discussion in New Zealand and links to media coverage.New Zealand Parliament Buildings, Wellington, New Zealand.Today’s content by Dr Bryce Edwards.Housing Bernard Hickey (Newsroom): Lecturing councils won’t work for Labour either Marc Daalder (Newsroom): ‘Nice pointers, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Prudence Flowers, Lecturer in US History, College of Humanities, Arts, and Social Sciences, Flinders University As the abortion decriminalisation bill gradually makes its way through the NSW parliament, opponents have been increasingly drawing on their long relationship with the right-to-life movement in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alexandra Hansen, Chief of Staff, The Conversation With the advent of online ancestry DNA testing, and advancements in genetic screening for various medical aliments, we’re able to know more than ever about the genes that make us who we are. But is ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Linda Galligan, Associate professor, University of Southern Queensland If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, send it to curiouskids@theconversation.edu.au.How was maths discovered? Who made up the numbers and rules? – Bianca, age 12, Strathfield, Sydney. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nicholas Borroz, PhD candidate in international business and comparative political economy, University of Auckland India’s Chandrayaan-2 spacecraft has settled into lunar orbit, ahead of its scheduled Moon landing on September 7. If it succeeds India will join a very select club, now ...
Good morning, and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Twyford and Parker propose new urban development policy statement, Tamihere unveils transport plans, and Māori King issues challenge on child abuse.For a lead today, a nudge towards one of those deeply dense announcements that could end up having a huge ...
Just like its National predecessor, this Labour-led Government is trying to lecture councils into growing the 'right' kinds of cities without giving them the funding tools or help to do it. ...
Part three of our debate on the state of New Zealand fiction continues as Chris Else, whose opening essay was strongly rebutted last week by Catherine Robertson, returns to put the boot in once more. ...
This morning the five shortlisted songs for the 2019 Silver Scroll Award were announced. Here, exclusively for The Spinoff, the finalists discuss each other’s nominated songs.Tom Scott of Avantdale Bowling Club on ‘The Barrel’ by Aldous Hardingit’s such a beautiful stunt to witness. breaking just before the cliff edge. the ...
A group is currently holding seminars around NZ which appear to be based on misinformation about vaccines. Dr Helen Petousis-Harris fact checks some of their claims. ...
The Football Ferns are at a crossroads - they need to move on from simply being "competitive" to make a serious impression on the world football stage. ...
Countless stories from women who have a right to be safe on campus still go unanswered, writes Kate Hannah, deputy director equity and inclusion, Te Pūnaha MatatiniDespite the hashtags and the headlines, universities in New Zealand seem to have largely avoided facing up to their own “#MeToo moment”. It is ...
The government’s plan to avoid another ‘fiscal hole’ fiasco has an unlikely fan: the chief economist of the corporate think tank New Zealand Initiative. Eric Crampton explains what else it could do.Have you ever driven past one of those stores that mostly sells blinds but calls itself ‘Not Just Blinds’ ...
Over the course of the local elections period, The Spinoff will be publishing primers on some of the most interesting races around the country. Today, Alex Braae casts his eyes over the Otago Regional Council contest.The Spinoff local election coverage is made possible thanks to The SpinoffMembers. For more about ...
By Michael Andrew Journalists across Papua New Guinea have spoken out in support of EMTV news director Neville Choi after his “unacceptable” termination from a role he had held for six years. A public statement released on Monday listed the reasons for his termination, one of which was his ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Camellia Webb-Gannon, Lecturer, University of Wollongong Last weekend, the Indonesian police took 43 West Papuan students into custody for allegedly disrespecting the Indonesian flag during an independence day celebration (an allegation the students deny). Police stormed the students’ dorm and used teargas ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Natalie Klein, Professor, UNSW Prime Minister Scott Morrison has confirmed that Australia will lend military support to protect shipping in the Middle East. The commitment has been long expected, with Australia sending a frigate, an aircraft and some headquarters staff as part ...
Daily review 06/08/2019 
A new study claims to find that a mother’s exposure to fluoridated water during pregnancy may decrease the IQ of male children – but is it correct? (Photo: Getty Images) Anti-fluoride campaigners are promoting ... 29 mins ago
Donald Trump seems to be eager to start a war with Iran, and naturally Australia is yapping at its heels like a good little vassal. The UK also asked New Zealand to get involved, but fortunately, we had a good excuse: we simply didn't have the toys available:Britain asked New ...5 hours ago
Television advertising has a huge impact on our lives. Even if we don’t recognise that, we know it has to be true, since otherwise why would advertisers spend so much on it? Its significance, however, is greater than simply the influence it has on what we purchase and consume. It ...1 day ago
by Jan Rivers More than 30 years ago a Commission of Inquiry was held in New Zealand to investigate, amongst other things, whether women with cervical cancer were aware that they had been part of a research project and whether they were properly informed of the treatment options ...2 days ago
Everyone Wants To Be Fuhrer: When fascist groups are discussed, the image conjured-up in the minds of most New Zealanders is one of pathetic misfits. This negative impression is reinforced by the latter’s idiotic embrace of the swastika. Even in the second decade of the twenty-first century, the baleful legacy ...2 days ago
In the previous two posts, I laid out the context and set the theoretical framework to answer a question: whether indigenous economies should take the LEAP. This final part outlines ways to conceive of practicing mana motuhake within the existing legal system by carving out special jurisdictions that enable Indigenous ...4 days ago
Fully Informed? Labour’s 2017 promises raised expectations that were little short of revolutionary. Unfortunately, they were never adequately shaken through the fiscal sieve. The hard economic work was not done – and it shows. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s critics have long complained that her grasp of the way the New ...4 days ago
You cannot expect to pound communities into the ground day after day, year after year, decade after decade and just expect them to take it lying down. There’s a point at which the place will explode. And we’re faced with some very big ructions on both sides of the Atlantic ...6 days ago
6 days ago
Going Down? Once truth and propaganda become fused in the minds of one’s followers, debate and discussion become redundant. If one’s opponents are all outrageous liars, then engaging with them in any way is pointless. Rather than waste its time, a political party should, instead, target all its messages at ...6 days ago
We need to fundamentally reframe our systems settings to address the drivers causing and underpinning inequality; structural change in systems especially financial. The Equality Network Hui was held in Wellington on 27 June 2019. The hui covered important topics such as child poverty; a living wage; taxation; public health; mental ...1 week ago
The views-per-page for some of my recent postings:Depressing, isn't it? Provide thoughtful and wise commentary on the mainstream of British politics and no-one notices. Make a passing reference to Tommy DICKHEAD Robinson in a thread title and you get hundreds of views. Write something about anti-Semitism and you get another ...1 week ago
The government has announced plans to move the Treaty of Waitangi and other taonga to a new site. Great news! So where are they going? Right next to the old one:The new plan will see a new 22,000-square-metre archive built on the former site of Defence House - the former ...1 week ago
Back in June, StatsNZ went public about a project to track population data on an hourly level by using people's cellphones. It wasn't as bad as it initially looked - they were receiving no individual data, only counts by suburb - but there was still a huge consent problem, so ...1 week ago
I did an interview on the TVNZ Breakfast Show about the situation in Hong Kong. I tried to frame the issue as a collective action problem between two sides with very different end games. The video is here. Because of time constraints we could not discuss the fact that the ...1 week ago
Image Credit: Wild Rose College A new study reporting the ranges of values for kidney and liver parameters in a healthy population is being actively misrepresented by anti-fluoride campaigners. The Fluoride Action Network’s (FAN) latest ... 1 week ago
Alone, Alone. All, All Alone: Will it be a good or a bad thing, when humanity’s bright blue spacecraft is stricken by the civilisation-destroying problem of Climate Change, that no Huston Control will be standing-by to rescue the crew?“WE HAVE A PROBLEM, HUSTON.” These were the words used by the ...1 week ago
Divided Loyalties: Can the Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern, be relied upon? That’s what the boys and girls at Foggy Bottom and the Pentagon needed to be reassured about. Because, from the perspective of Washington, it’s looking more and more like Jacinda Ardern and her Labour Party comrades are getting ready ...1 week ago
This handy Queer Theory Glossary is from thetranswidow.com In case you’ve had trouble keeping up with the spate of new queer theory terms, here’s a handy glossary for your reference. Queer – A straight person with an interesting haircut. Non-binary/genderqueer – A chubby young female, typically 16-28, who has ...2 weeks ago
The winter grazing issue is becoming a highly sensitised one that I hope will not become so politicised that it delays solutions and results in the suicides of some very stressed farmers.Winter grazing has hit the headlines after a determined campaign, including the release of a video of some very ...2 weeks ago
The Green Part has been accused of lack of transparency in two recent situations. The first was the claimed media lockdown during Green's annual conference and the second was Julie Ann Genter's refusal to release a letter she had sent to Phil Twyford.I do get frustrated when journalist's succumb to ...2 weeks ago
Blowing-Up The House: Is Winston Peters planning to put himself at the head of all those New Zealanders who refuse to countenance the Coalition Government caving-in to the Ihumatao protesters? The most effective way of doing this would be to issue Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern with an ultimatum. If she ...2 weeks ago
Opportunities to dodge tax are shrinking with the completion of a new tax agreement with Switzerland, Revenue Minister Stuart Nash announced today. Mr Nash and the Swiss Ambassador David Vogelsanger have today signed documents to update the double tax agreement (DTA). The previous DTA was signed in 1980. “Double tax ...2 weeks ago
The Council of Licenced Firearm Owners (COLFO) is urging firearms owners to pass on information to the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the Attack on Christchurch Mosques now that the period for submissions has been extended to 27 September. ...2 hours ago
National MP Nick Smith has lodged a serious accusation against Parliament's Speaker calling him "biased" after once again being booted out of the debating chamber. ...23 mins ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sunanda Creagh, Head of Digital Storytelling Last weekend, hundreds of thousands of people again took to the streets in Hong Kong to protest against the government – the 11th straight weekend of demonstrations that began in June over a proposed extradition bill. ...32 mins ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Scott Hamilton, Strategic Advisory Panel Member, Australian-German Energy Transition Hub, University of Melbourne Australia’s primary federal renewable energy target – to have 33 terawatts of renewable energy by 2020 – has essentially been achieved. There is much uncertainty as to what is ...2 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Brendan Keogh, ARC DECRA Fellow, Queensland University of Technology In the last three months, the Australian Classification Board has “refused classification” for at least four video games – effectively banning them in Australia. The latest is zombie-survival shooter DayZ. Despite being previously ...3 hours ago
Government agencies are taking an unconventional approach to family violence solutions. ...3 hours ago
Sky Network Television has bought the rights to put its name on Wellington's Westpac Stadium. ...4 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Collins, Professor in Nutrition and Dietetics, University of Newcastle The Heart Foundation now recommends full-fat milk, cheese and yoghurt or reduced-fat options as part of its updated dietary advice released yesterday. This moves away from earlier advice that recommended only reduced-fat ...5 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Libby Porter, Professor of Urban Planning, Centre for Urban Research, RMIT University The Victorian government has announced it is seeking heritage listing for parts of the Eastern Freeway in Melbourne. We heard this news on Wednesday as we sat under a grandfather ...5 hours ago
A flood and a botched insurance job has left a Howick couple out of their home for almost two years. But it's a story with some strange twists. ...5 hours ago
One part telenovela, one part family drama, one part addictive love story. Sam Brooks reviews Jane the Virgin, the great show with an unfortunate name that should be your next Netflix binge.The following piece contains very mild spoilers for Jane the Virgin.While watching the last season of Jane the Virgin, ...6 hours ago
Before Zumba, before Just Dance, before it was cool again to move in public group settings, there was Jump Jam. Madeleine Chapman reflects.Jump Jam entered the lives of New Zealand kids in 2001, a year filled with historic cultural movements. Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone was released in 2001; ...7 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Felicity Jensz, Research associate professor, University of Münster Donald Trump is not the first US President to make an offer of buying Greenland from Denmark – but he might be the last. Home of some 56,000 people and around 80% covered by ...7 hours ago
Live updates: Around 150 are taking part in the hīkoi to the PM's electorate office from Ihumātao in a bid to get her to visit the site. ...7 hours ago
We review the entire country and culture of New Zealand, one thing at a time. Today, Tara Ward taste-tests the best hot chips in the country. Everyone loves a hot chip because they’re a) hot, and b) a chip, but there’s nothing more disappointing than a bad chip experience. A ...8 hours ago
Sky Network Television has written down the value of large parts of its business and scrapped paying a dividend as it changes direction to counter falling pay TV subscribers. ...8 hours ago
A finalist for New Zealander of the Year for her work with Māori smokers is at war with academics because her research is funded by tobacco giant Philip Morris. Guyon Espiner reports. ...10 hours ago
Air New Zealand's full-year profit has hit headwinds as higher fuel costs and slower passenger growth hit its earnings. ...10 hours ago
Keith Rankin’s Chart Analysis
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Prudence Flowers, Lecturer in US History, College of Humanities, Arts, and Social Sciences, Flinders University As the abortion decriminalisation bill gradually makes its way through the NSW parliament, opponents have been increasingly drawing on their long relationship with the right-to-life movement in ...12 hours ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alexandra Hansen, Chief of Staff, The Conversation With the advent of online ancestry DNA testing, and advancements in genetic screening for various medical aliments, we’re able to know more than ever about the genes that make us who we are. But is ...12 hours ago
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“In other words, simply shutting down those farms is likely to be more beneficial to the local economy than letting them continue to operate. And that's without even considering the value of the carbon stored.
Looked at like this, the message is clear: the sooner marginal farms shut down and are converted to trees, the better off we'll all be.”
Climate Change: The double benefit of forestry conversions
http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2019/08/climate-change-double-benefit-of.html
define marginal?..as stated last night an assessment of where (and what) the forestry needs to occur is the missing piece of the puzzle…what this badly designed policy does is rely on 'the market'…isnt that what has (largely) brought us to this point?
Farmers have long demanded the right to do as they please, run whatever they please, sell whenever they please to whom ever they please.
Why all this anguish now? Forestry isn't forcing farmers to sell. It's the farmers' choice. They are the authors of their own fate, just as they've always professed.
That may or may not be the case but thats not the point…if the purpose of the policy is best possible outcome re climate change and society then it needs redesigning
Rural communities have been gutted by incoming industrial dairying haven't they?
Was Government policy "redesigned" when country halls and schools closed because dairying supplanted sheep farming and the communities that went with that?
What's different?
On the contrary , rural communities have been growing on the back of the dairy conversion boom…as a Southland Councillor you should be well aware of that…for all the problems associated with dairy, jobs isnt one of them.
Jobs are only one aspect of community. Ask the sheep farmers if their communities are as good as they were before dairying arrived. Go back even further, to when trees were the dominant feature of the landscape; ask iwi if modern communities are better than those that existed before sheep and cattle, deforestation and river-straightening, when deer, rabbits, stoats and possums were the animals of choice.
I have neighbours who vowed never to convert to 'bloody cows'…guess what?, over the past 2 decades everyone of them have succumbed…because they had no choice…land values and inputs increased to a point where sheep and beef were no longer viable.
They had no choice?
Really?
Are we blaming dairying then, in the same way as you're blaming forestry now?
I suppose somebody said the same thing about sheep when they started spreading across the land.
No need to be slippery Robert…they had the same control over their lives as the rest of us…bugger all. The 'Market' drives the choices whether we like it or not…and the government is supposed to ensure the best outcomes for society (as a whole) by regulating that market….thats where the billion trees programme falls over
Regulate the market?
Perhaps the imperative to plant trees rather than run livestock is bigger than the market?
I do know what you are getting at, Pat, but the details need to be thrashed out, I reckon, as the final result is critical to us all. Pines are the problem here, I reckon, but I have a theory about all this and it doesn't fit anyone else's, involving the short time we have to get trees of any sort into the ground and what might happen if things unravel and large forests are left to mature in their own way. Next, we need to talk about wilding pines
Re the billion trees programme , the details should have been thrashed out before implementation…and they argue they were but if thats the case theyre incompetent as it is patently not fit for purpose
If farmers had adopted agroforestry practices that have long been promoted, this situation would not have presented; our landscapes would be treed and stocked; the best of both worlds. Why do you think this didn't happen, Pat? Lack of vision? Fear of trees?
I cant tell you why agroforestry wasnt adopted as the standard practice in years past but might guess it was related to a dearth of clairvoyancy… I can however explain the removal of the multitude of woodlots and sheterbelts that has occurred in tandem with dairy conversions ( compounded by council austerity programmes)….budgets for finance.
Rural land prices increased when the recent governments allowed foreign ownership.Intensification and industrial farming was a response (to reward the investors of managed farms)
Policy response would be to prohibit overseas ownership of rural land.(including forestry)
and that would cause an even larger outcry from the rural community and the banks….theyre all juggling as it is
"Policy response would be to prohibit overseas ownership of rural land."
Farmers oppose that. There's big money overseas and farmers should be able to sell to the highest bidder. Isn't that what farmers have long professed? Weren't they supported by the National Party in that?
Have they changed their minds now?
Coz trees?
Iwi have been priced out in a lot of areas for rural land.(as have share milkers) (shearers etc) the stepping stone industries for farm ownership.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D40BzaHUYAEvwS9.jpg:large
Indeed. The system’s rotten.
Gee rg you've found an article by a like minded fool to back your bias.
They arnt planting marginal land they are planting to quality land thats in range of ports so they can maximize profits while fucking communities.
Who's selling the farms, bwaghorn?
Isn't it a farmers right to sell whenever to whoever the farmer chooses?
The market is king, right?
What's all the complaining about. This is a farmer issue.
But that would reduce food production,which is a no no under the paris agreement.
How would that look on JA cv.
This Agreement, in enhancing the implementation of the Convention, including its objective, aims to strengthen the global response to the threat of climate change, in the context of sustainable development and efforts to eradicate poverty, including by:(a)Holding the increase in the global average temperature to well below 2 °C above pre-industrial levels and to pursue efforts to limit the temperature increase to 1.5 °C above pre-industrial levels, recognizing that this would significantly reduce the risks and impacts of climate change;(b)Increasing the ability to adapt to the adverse impacts of climate change and foster climate resilience and low greenhouse gas emissions development, in a manner that does not threaten food production;
The agreement doesn't demand no change at all to specific farms or regions, it requires the amount of food produced be kept the same. If food production is doubled in one place it can be halved in another. The choice to sell a farm is the farmers; no one is coercing them to sell. I've heard farmers claim repeatedly that they are feeding the world; has that admirable aim changed, just because forestry money arrived on the scene? In any case; food for whom? Does the Agreement aim to sustain the Chinese appetite for powdered milk, or is it requiring that land feeds those who live on it?
the PA and the IPCC scenario models warn of the need to increase food production to meet raising population growth.
The chinese consumer may not want to buy wood bark soup recipes from N/korea.
Warns of the need?
Doesn't sound like a binding demand.
Farmers don't have to sell. If they believe they are morally bound to produce food for the world, they'll stick to farming and tell the rapacious foresters to look elsewhere for land to grow trees. Nobody's forcing them to sell, are they. Nobody's making them go against their ethics, are they?
Having scored truckloads of compensation over mycoplasma bovis, it may be that they have developed a deep and abiding need for the contemporary equivalent of sheep retention money – "Pay us not to plant trees!" – compensation being a crop that eats no fodder at all.
Less red meat more vegetables. If the future of humanity requires this then fine by me.
And if the future of humanity requires the planting of trees on farms, I'm fine with that. In fact, I'd help plant them.
It would be nice to see a bit more in the way of integrating trees with other farming, rather than pretending mutually exclusive monocultures are the only options.
Exactly, Stuart. Once the frothing subsides, your suggestion should come to the fore and be acted upon by those innovative farmers who can famously adapt to any situation.
But of course it won’t Robert. First of all a few generations down the track they will be asking why this generation let our valuable farming land required for food be planted in trees. Our cities have already poured concrete over the best of it. And secondly every twenty years those trees get milled releasing all that carbon again. Solution, plant twice as many on a decreasing land mass to compensate. Doesn’t sound bright to me Robert. But you’re just happy sniping at present day farmers. I guess somewhere in the future we’ll learn how to eat trees Looking forward to that.
The court jester can't see the wood for the trees .
I agree with Ian. New View seems to be ironically limited in vision.
The way the climate looks to be going, how can NV assume that there will be any 20-year cycles? We will all be bloody lucky if we can survive one, and by then the second may be but a dream…
Required for food, or required for export dollars, New view?
Cities are not designed to be integral to the land, I agree with you there, but human habitation could be, with designers able to imagine such things creating such habitations. As for 20 years from now, my guess is the situation will be so different from now, the "certainty" of milling will be long overturned and new ways of managing trees capes will be in place. I'm keen to help with that, even at this early stage. As for "sniping at farmers" I'm not doing that at all; farmers have always claimed the right to sell and I'm not criticising them for that, just citing the behaviour.
Thanks RG – you said it better.
Not much of your reply makes sense to me Robert. We need the land for food production. Exports of timber are ok if you’re not importing inferior food. As for farmers selling this land to foresters for a fat profit, that’s only one side Robert. That means that the foresters are out bidding any farmers for land. It’s putting an unsustainable value on land. And means that land won’t be used for farming again. You and your mates might think that’s great but future generations won’t thank you. The steeper country is suitable for trees if they can stop the rubbish clogging our rivers and causing massive damage as happened in the Gisborne area. Multiply that problem thousands of times Robert and don’t tell me they’ll have it sorted in ten years. Bullshit they will. But you know what Robert farmers will have their emissions sorted out in ten years and they won’t be relying on your help that’s for sure.
My reply to you, New view, presents a new view and that's why it makes not much sense to you. There is ample land in New Zealand for food production. Some of that is being repurposed for growing trees, a necessary phenomenon globally. You claim that once land is forested, it will never again be used for farming. Kaiangaroa, apparently, shows that to be untrue. All farmland in New Zealand was once forested land, remember. You say, foresters are outbidding farmers as if that's a new phenomenon, but dairying created the same issue; dairy men outbid sheep men, or horticulturalists and sent the price of land rocketing up. Whoever's backed by the banks, favoured by the Government of the day, gets the land. Conventional forestry management is ill-conceived, in my view; there are very effective ways to manage forests and those ways have to become the way forward for humans everywhere. Food comes from forests also, New view; your, "can't eat trees" is petty and simplistic. Ever eaten sago? The fruits and nuts of any trees? Have you ever eaten a leaf? A fungus? You need to let your imagination free, New view, as do we all, in order to see the potential in forests. They're going to be our new home and our hope for the future. There'll still be cows, don't worry, only they'll be creatures of the forest edge, as their ancestors were, feeding on a vast range of vegetation, rather than confined to a paddock and restricted to one or two plants. Farmers might well have their emissions sorted out in 10 years, New view, but farming will have been transformed beyond recognition for that to have happened. That transformation is underway now, driven not by farmers, but by necessity; the approaching collapse of the biological environment and the end of the golden weather. Trees will see us through, if we're smart enough to work with them and learn from their long experience of weathering the storms of change.
Good rolling sheep and cattle country clogged with low profit pine, which is what is happening at present, isn’t the idillic ‘pick the nuts and see the cow sitting under a shady tree’ scenario’. It isn’t what this Government is sanctioning Robert. Nice but delusional.
I know it's not and I said it's not, New view, but the way ahead is forward into trees, not back into livestock. Pinus radiate and it's brutal management is the worst of choices and doesn't represent the model I'm promoting, but neither foes livestock farming. Foresters have a long way to go to up-grade their practices to something appropriate for the situation we find ourselves in now, but at least they are planting trees; moving them from monocultural thinking to multi-faceted, forest-based thinking will be aided by circumstance, in my view; the climate and the change in thinking resulting from that will force changes rapidly and that's what I'm banking on and that's why I cheer-on the planting of trees. Wilding pines reclaiming high country sheep stations is a good example of marginal land being turned into forestry, wouldn't you say?
I’m not against trees Robert, but miss using the use of them can be as damaging as miss used farm land. Wilding pines sounds great until they spread out of control and take even the best flat land. A few years back I was in the Tekapo basin. That iconic area where there was an uproar over the Dairy farming. Well what was evident there was the wilding pines creeping all over that iconic landscape like thistles. Not what everyone had in mind I’m sure, so no I wouldn’t say that’s a good idea.
Trees spreading by their own efforts are challenging alright! The simplistic view sees them as a threat, but utilising their energy and drive to spread would be the wisest approach, in my opinion. Adding to the wilding forests would be the path to take; use the natural force, augment it with seedings of many other trees, have people out there managing those forests, as described before. This is a budding idea, but needs to be explored, given the alternative involves huge cost, enormous use of herbicides (arboricides?) the destruction en mass of trees and the continuation of livestock farming, itself a forest-destroying activity. The iconic Tekapo landscape would surely be a forested one, not a tussock one? I bet there is evidence of forests throughout the area from a time before humans began their landscape modifying burning, bulldozing, grazing and spraying. At what point do we declare something "iconic"?
A natural native forest maybe but certainly not fucking wilding pines. They are about as iconic as the weeds in your garden. As usual we agree on some things and disagree on most.
Wilding pines are not useful in the conventional sense; they don't produce straight timber for a start, but we are not thinking deeply or strategically enough about them. If we regard them as an enemy that has to be destroyed, we will lose the battle we've set ourselves. Better to harness the irrepressible force that they are and use them for our benefit, somehow. It's that "somehow" we have to explore. To date, we just try to poison them to death. That's an approach that has too much collateral damage, imo and reflects a mindset that has brought us to the place we are now in, globally. The destructive thinking; kill, burn, destroy, eradicate, that much of humanity has come to adopt has brought us to the brink of self-destruction; we've applied our smash and grab approach to everything bar the few organisms we like and it's ending badly. I'm suggesting taking a different approach and looking at all the "weeds" of the world, not as enemies, but as allies. It's not immediately apparent how this would work, in specific situations such as wilding pines, but that's because we haven't applied our clever minds to the problem using that lens; we've just stuck with the "bash our way through" mentality and that's left much of the world bashed-up.
I agree. The pine seedlings that were stealthily appearing in the Tekapo basin were having to be chipped out or cut before they seeded. An onerous task. A fine line indeed between them being servant or master. Why do I not have the faith in any Government monitoring that properly. This Government couldn’t even employ contractors capable of keeping tree seedlings alive before they got them in the ground. You are a true optimist Robert. We need that but we also need realists so we embark on projects that will be successful and not a waste of tax payers money.
Those projects you allude to; they need to be conceived in a new light now. There's an imperative, imo, the risk of environmental collapse through species extinction and the risk of ruinous climatic conditions all round. Preventing and/or preparing for those eventualities should be driving all of our projects from here on in. Conventional ways of looking at things and projects based on that thinking have to be re-evaluated in light of the new conditions, I reckon. If we need to quickly grow forests in order to stave-off destructive conditions, then we'll have to think fast and think outside of the box. I know I'm being provocative with my claims about forests, but now is the time for change in how we think and behave. We're at the pointy end now and better act quick-smart if we are not to end up wallowing in regret.
And secondly every twenty years those trees get milled releasing all that carbon again.
How does that work? The trees are made of carbon aren't they?
In any case, there's as much carbon in the roots, which don't get milled, as there is in the above-ground part of the tree. That doesn't include the massive, extensive fungal nets below ground that carry carbon to and fro between trees in a forest. So, carbon stays in the soil, in a well managed forestry situation (there are very few of these, btw. Our challenge is to master forest management and lead the world in that. The knowledge is there, or mostly, all we have to do is be awake to the potentials.
True, but as the stump rots down over a decade or so some of the carbon will be lost back to the atmosphere. Timber used in soundly designed buildings however can be held for centuries. I can see the day coming when we build houses log cabin style just to use lots of wood.
The carbon in roots stays put and it's a significant amount, especially when forests are replanted as trees are cut; coppicing of course, is the best way to manage forests; the roots stay in place and wood is grown for use in construction. If we can fill the soil with roots and their associated carbon-bearing fungal networks, while harvesting wood from the tops, we'll be on the way to success. Grass just doesn't do the trick.
Less red meat more vegetables. If the future of humanity requires this then fine by me.
Sorry mate,you need a bigger lifestyle change,the undercarriage has to go.
a child (an average for developed countries of 58.6 tonnes CO2-equivalent (tCO2e) emission reductions per year), vs eating a plant-based diet (0.8 tCO2e saved per year)
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aa7541
We all need a bigger lifestyle change. This "civilised" lifestyle of ours is wrecking the place. Would you change your lifestyle, Poission, if it meant averting ruin?
In the Tasman District, dairy farms are being converted to hops, three farms this year so far out of 180 farms in the district.
"Tararua District mayor Tracey Collis has seen 13 farms in her district sell in the past year."
Who sold them? Who pocketed the money?
If they're heavily indebted dairy farms, the bank.
True (in part). Sad too.
but slowly…cant have a crash
yep I drove recently down to murch past Tapawera and was blown away by the hectares of hop posts, mud and development – all along the riverbank for kilometers – hope it doesn't flood
Hmm I'm not sure how beneficial to the local rural economy or community this actually is… Family owned sheep and beef farm, they likely spend money in the local town, kids go to the small rural school etc basically a community with Teachers, a Vet etc etc
Farm gets sold and planted in pine likely to a foreign owned entity who collect the credits etc. Only sporadic low paid work in the forest pruning and the like, people leave through lack of work school closes community dies…
Seen it happen and im not convinced that it's a good thing for NZ.
We have to find a balance somewhere…
That's correct, Cricklewood. The present model is poor. A new way with forests is what's required. People have to be living amongst them. Communities have to be integrated into forests, not sidelined by them. The same is true of farming, yet changing farming trends drove people out of the countryside also. The whole model needs to be changed significantly. Small, thriving communities linked by networks of communication and travel need to be established everywhere, with people living meaningful, engaged lives that benefit the environments they're/we're living in. Presently, farms exclude people, aside from the very few rural people who own farms or work on them. This all must change.
Yip farmers can sell to who they like but they are being added and abeted by this government's policy settings subsidising foreign buyers to buy quality land . It would be an easy fix shifting subsidies to class 4 hard hill country or worse.
Supposedly big on community but you do give a fuck if its farmers . We cant all live in the trees sucking the rat payers tit.
Farmers are being aided by the Government?
They'll be appreciative of that help then, I suppose.
I'd like to see forests being planted on all land that's less than ideal for livestock-farming; the rougher stuff that ought never to have been cleared of forest in the first place.
Agriculture has destroyed much of the planet's forests and the rate of destruction is escalating, taking out vast swathes of what forest remains. There's a need for a re-think. Farmers might like to be part of that review, rather than defending the status quo, particularly because they have dominion over so much land. Townies haven't the same potential to effect change. Then there are those who don't give a rat's tit
We agree then . So you'll be using you considerable skills to get the message out that subsidizing forest owners to purchase good quality farm land so they can blanket plant is bad policy . A more considered approach is needed.
NZF floating an abortion reform referendum is about as dumb as it gets. Time for that was during the coalition negotiations after the last election. Unless their agreement with Labour contains an enabling clause!
News tonite said they will decide by Thursday whether to go for it. Wish someone would tell the truth & call the right to lifers closet fascists. Being polite around that has gone on far too long. I guess the upside of a referendum is it would flush them out into the open.
Seems like Winston has sucker punched Labour again.
Probably now demanding a referendum on the abortion law to vote for it, after seeming to agree with it.
Telling them who is actually running the place again.
Lol
Not that I think he would actually be needed either way given it is a conscience.
lol you just destroyed your own idiotic comment – nice one
Thought it was more Winston destroying his own posturing tbh.
he can't be running the show if he isn't needed can he?
In this case.
He certainly was with not completely ditching 3 strikes or the 90 day law. Or toning down the employment law, or the promised CGT, or etc etc etc
Unless you can point where he wasn't obviously
well you point out how he can be running the show and not be needed then
Because in this particular issue, there will probably be enough Nat MPs who agree with a womens right to abortion to not need his votes.
It will be the same with the Right to Die bill, but it will be closer, so it is better to have a referendum to not risk it.
And weed one that isn't really needed, but sounds like it means something.
righto so he didn't sucker punch them and isn't showing them who runs the show – thanks for clarifying your original incorrect remarks
Well he tried to again, but it is a bit amateur hour given the circumstances
And yet the nats couldn't cut a deal with an amateur hour macchiavelli. lol
shane jones – the wanker from wayback shoots his mouth off
wow did you think of that all by yourself did you lol what a brainpox you are shaneo thank goodness you've said something lol
Shit next you'll be calling him an uncle Tom!
keep your racist bullshit to yourself – go and make sure your animals aren't being maltreated or abused, in other words do something useful laddie
I spend hours at this time of year looking after 4000 hungry future steak burgers and sausages
what happens on the farm stays on the farm mate that's the rules just like fight club
I personally broke ranks a few years back and told the gm on a large outfit I was at was beating stock . So na some of us speak up.
Ticks all the boxes.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/114799572/winston-peters-pulls-rug-out-from-under-andrew-little–again
Can we please get consensus before announcing policy or before going to the media with ideas. Ffs did no one learn from the CGT debacle.
I hope Winston slaps down his cowboy. If the cowboy isn't alone in the NZF caucus, W may have to use his lawyer stance to remind the loose cannons that their electability depends on adhering to the coalition agreement through to full term. I can't see him using this to establish an independent position for NZF this far out from the election.
Not so sure about that.
The abortion thing has been in the wings for a while, and NZ1 is a traditional conservative party.
One option is that labgrn never talked with NZ1 about the issue. This seems unlikely.
Another option is that NZ1 bit their tongue, but when it was announced everything came to a head within the party and overflowed into the "referendum" stalling tactic. Possible.
Another option is that it's NZ1 differentiating itself (and nabbing some of the fundy vote the nats are hoping for with a new party) in a way that won't affect the outcome – they'll go for a referendum, be outraged it doesn't happen, the thing goes to conscience votes and NZ1 gets outflanked by a few progressive nats. Law change still happens, and NZ1 gets to build its base a bit. Possible – they're not as silly as simon.
Yeah that all seems feasible. Depends if Winston sees more advantage in being partisan than consolidating his gains via constructive politics. If the polls are making him paranoid, the former option gets preference.
I imagine all the idiots in the Labour Party who thought they could go into a Government with Winston will be regretting that they didn't take note of what John Key said.
In 2008, before the election, he said he would not form a Government with Winston's mob because he couldn't trust him. As was always the case Key was a hell of a lot smarter than the fools in the Labour Party. You can't trust Winston. However the Labour Party, at least the sensible ones, preferred to get into the bed with Winston than stay, where they deserved to be, on the Opposition benches. The sillier ones, like the PM, probably believed that Winston really thought she was capable of being PM rather than just be Winston's puppet.
Regardless of what they thought they have simply been reminded of that old saw. If you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas. Itchy are you Jacinda?
Key repeated the statement before the 2011 election. Sensible fellow wasn’t he?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10703680
How did this moronic blogger get included on TS list of blog sites?
http://www.averagekiwi.com/2019/08/05/dangerous-human-ending-cult-sweeping-through-civilisation/
Worth reading for a laugh though.
As for the cartoon……….
He was posting here as "Rubbish" and his handle was prescient.
Are you sure about that? BTW, I banned Rubbish.
Rabid misogyny.
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/j5yekp/exclusive-dayton-shooter-was-in-a-pornogrind-band-that-released-songs-about-raping-and-killing-women
He must be worried about his job or something, I hate the "but it's just a joke" excuse, at least GG Allin was unapologetic and believed he was making some kind of art (& did it first). All the GG copycats are pathetic.
We better keep an eye on that HomeBrew chappy.
PEPCON with bells.
Krasnoyarsk Krai (@Liveuamap)
freaky video
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49249504
Q – Legit question for rural Americans – How do I kill the 30-50 feral hogs that run into my yard within 3-5 mins while my small kids play?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/05/feral-hogs-memes-twitter-30-50-running-into-my-yard-small-kids
A –https://twitter.com/search?q=feral%20hogs&src=typed_query