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Daily Review 15/12/2016

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, December 15th, 2016 - 93 comments
Categories: Daily review - Tags:

 

Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

93 comments on “Daily Review 15/12/2016 ”

  1. james 1

    Great news – we are all going to get some of our tax $$ back.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11767791

    • Paul 1.1

      Did you get a free education?
      Pull the ladder up after you?

      • james 1.1.1

        Ever take a loan, then tell the lender to **** off?

        How do you think that works out?

        Bloody good job – I hope they go after them all as hard as possible.

        All they have to do is make their loan payments like everybody else. Now – just like the real world – they are seeing there are consequences for their (lack of) action and dishonesty.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1

          Ever take a loan, then tell the lender to **** off?

          Yep.

          How do you think that works out?

          Fine. It’s why we have laws for defaulting.

          All they have to do is make their loan payments like everybody else.

          Except for the fact that they can’t afford to. That’s the real point here. The government is demanding that these people do something that they can’t afford.

          • BM 1.1.1.1.1

            Would these kiwis be living in Oz if they didn’t have a job? bludging fuckers need to pay back the money they stole from the taxpayer.

            I hope they nail their arses to the wall.

            • Paul 1.1.1.1.1.1

              You Tories are so angry.

              • BM

                Paul, these people have stolen from the collective, if you’re any sort of socialist you’d be appalled at their flagrant dishonesty and be demanding they pay the money back.

                • So what is this?…. a new found respect for socialism / the collective ?

                  Very impressed with the use of the word collective. Very impressed.

                  So building on that idea I say we should now be released to take the former Business Roundtable (now the New Zealand Institute ) to court for charges of social malfeasance , obtaining pecuniary advantage ,and treason.

                  Additionally , we can also charge the neo liberal leaders of the last 32 years retrospectively with the same criminal charges with the added charges of collusion and being complicit in a crime.

                  There.

                  That would solve the issue of those stealing from the collective.

                  Well done , BM , thank you very much for your input.

                  • james

                    “So building on that idea I say we should now be released to take the former Business Roundtable (now the New Zealand Institute ) to court for charges of social malfeasance , obtaining pecuniary advantage ,and treason.”

                    Yeah – thats a rational response to asking someone to pay their student loan.

                    • Oh Jamsey wamsey… we dont want to be seen as having a case of ‘whats good for the goose is NOT good for the gander ‘ , do we now , dearie?

              • james

                Actually – not angry at all – this makes me happy.

                I hope they arrest 100’s of them at the airport after xmas holidays.

            • WILD KATIPO 1.1.1.1.1.2

              Yeah I agree…

              Like Whittall who set up a company in Wellington during the Royal Commission of Inquiry called ‘ Whittall and Associates ‘ which specialized in among other things ‘ mining safety ‘….

              Didnt work for a few years after that because no one would seek his services the lazy bludging bastard – and we paid for that !.

              So off he went and packed his bags back to Australia without so much as a buy you or leave to budge off the Aussie’s Centrelink..

          • james 1.1.1.1.2

            “Fine. It’s why we have laws for defaulting.”

            Yep – but you guys seem to have an issue with the laws for defaulting on student loans.

            “Except for the fact that they can’t afford to. That’s the real point here. The government is demanding that these people do something that they can’t afford.”

            citation please?

            There are plently that are just trying to get away with it – unfortunately they cause more issues for the ones with genuine problems.

            So some yes – all nope.

            • WILD KATIPO 1.1.1.1.2.1

              ” There are plently that are just trying to get away with it – unfortunately they cause more issues for the ones with genuine problems.”

              I heartily agree !

              And so to add to that and following along that line of logic,…. these govt depts that are in collusion with the National party and particularly with ex PM John Key ,…. and also the Pike River Coal Mining company who said they didn’t have any funds left to stand trial….should be taking responsibilities for their actions, reentering Pike River and being manned up enough to accept the consequences of any evidence found and of a renewed High Court trial by which a significant number would be convicted…

              Stop em at the airport if they try to get away and throw the book at em , eh James? –

              That’s the spirit !!!

              I like what I’m hearing so far.

              Keep it up.

              • james

                Your logic is flawed and hysterical.

                Its a pretty basic item – people who take loans need to pay them back or suffer consequences.

                Nothing to do with Pike River FFS.

                • Ooooooooo , yes but dear Jamsey Wamsey ,… but it does…

                  especially in a liberal social democracy where we are all supposed to be equal under the law… or are you now changing your tune and resorting back to selectivity ?

                  Oh Jamsey …. Im so disappointed in you…. and here I really thought you’d started to develop a small sliver of humanity and common sense…

                  Oh well…. never mind…

                  • james

                    Nope – I have been pretty consistent about accountability for actions.

                    Its just your argument is stupid.

                    • Oh dearest Jamsey,… not the little philosopher , are we , dearie?

                      Never mind snookums,… one bright sunny day when the cognitive processes switch on past puberty , you’ll understand the correlation.

                      Oh sorry , dearest … correlation is a rather large word… lest say…

                      ‘ things that look quite the same even though not quite the same circumstances’…

                      Oh darn ,… done it again.

        • Paul 1.1.1.2

          Did you get a free education?

          • james 1.1.1.2.1

            Do you pay your debts?

            • Paul 1.1.1.2.1.1

              I benefited from a free tertiary education. I think following generations should too.

              Did you? You appear reluctant to answer. I wonder why?

              It is because you are only to happy to pull the ladder up after you, like Key, Hosking and Bennett ?

              • james

                Actually – no I have no uni education.

                My kids went to private school – which cost me a blimmin arm and a leg.

                So I answered you – how about you teling me – do you pay your debts?

                • Paul

                  Of course.

                  • james

                    Of course – yet here you are arguing that others should not.

                    So why not expect others to do so?

                    They entered into an agreement right?

                    They knew the terms right?

                    So why let them off?

                    • Paul

                      See Draco’s comments about their ability to pay back. I agree with him/her on that.
                      I also believe in justice above the law. It was unjust that the generation after us paid for education when we did not.
                      Your right wing ‘consumer’ view of education I guess is exemplified by your use of private education.
                      You have much to learn of the benefits of a civil society, I sense.
                      Here’s a clue.
                      It’s not all about you.

                    • BM

                      Don’t be an ass, when you went to Uni in the 1950’s probably about 5% of the population went onto higher education, the rest entered the workforce.

                      The country could easily afford that and anyway higher educated people paid their “free” education back in spades when the top tax rate was around 60%.

                    • mickysavage

                      I received a free education. I have always thought I should pay it back somehow. I also think that my kids and my nephews and nieces should get a free education as well. Things work better when we educate all of our kids, no matter how poor they are.

                    • BM

                      Would you be happy to see a top tax rate of 60% ms?.

                      Because that’s the only way we could afford free tertiary education.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      The country could easily afford that and anyway higher educated people paid their “free” education back in spades when the top tax rate was around 60%.

                      Yep and we could do the same if we raised the top tax rate back up to 60%+

                      Thank you for your support for social inclusiveness.

              • alwyn

                “I benefited from a free tertiary education”.
                Really? You disguise it very well. I would never have guessed that you had got that far.

            • WILD KATIPO 1.1.1.2.1.2

              Spaghetti and meatballs for dinner , Jamsey – go wash up now and sit up straight at the table like a good boy.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.2

      Ah, National going the punitive route rather than making things better.

      It would be much better, easier and cheaper just to forgive all student debt, drop the fees, give proper Student Allowance and develop our economy so that when students are ready there’s jobs for them.

      • Paul 1.2.1

        Yes, and that requires compassion and empathy, something James appear to lack.

        • james 1.2.1.1

          compassion and empathy does not come into it – they took a loan, entered a contract and bolted and didnt pay it.

          Thieves – and they deserve anything they get.

          You see – entering an agreement and taking all the “good stuff” and not paying money for it is theft. There are consequences – its a basic concept that you seem to be lacking Paul

          • mickysavage 1.2.1.1.1

            You RWNJs really get off when people get attacked and threatened …

          • WILD KATIPO 1.2.1.1.2

            Jamsey Diddums !!!

            Stop that language this instance !!!

            Now look , I’ve already told you about that principle… and that I agree with it. And you also know that nasty Mr Douglas and all his naughty little friends need to be hauled up before the class and given a jolly good talking to..

            And yes I agree… taking money that doesn’t belong to you IS theft.

            Now wipe that spaghetti from the side of your mouth , please.

          • Whispering Kate 1.2.1.1.3

            And of course James you are so bloody perfect, people like you are a constant irritant – what was so wrong with a public education for your kids that you had to lose an arm and a leg to send them to a private school. Just because you didn’t avail yourself of a tertiary education after your school years doesn’t mean to say it would fail your kids. Your kids might have more sense than you. What an angry man you are. What a waste of money paying out for a private school. Kids can come back and kick you in the bum no matter what you do for then, I hope they do not disappoint you after all that investment. Happy days.

            • James 1.2.1.1.3.1

              Thanks Kate for your concern. Again not angry – quite happy in life all in all.

              As for the private education- it was a choice – and we are happy with it. I’m happy with the education they received. They enjoyed their school years and to me that’s worth it.

              amyway – kids are happy, well rounded and contributing members of society. I’m proud of them.

              • In Vino

                It would be far better for us all if you acted to make yourself proud of our state education system as well. But I suspect you are devoid of such altruism.

      • Rosemary McDonald 1.2.2

        “It would be much better, easier and cheaper just to forgive all student debt, drop the fees, give proper Student Allowance and develop our economy so that when students are ready there’s jobs for them.”

        Hear hear!

        This would apply to ALL fees…including trade training, Class 2+ driving licences etc.

        As an aside…how hard would it have been to have some kind of CET arrangement with Australia so NZ student loan repayments could have been collected through the Aussie tax system? If Aus has the capacity to identify and then exclude Kiwis paying tax in Aussie from entitlement to benefits and disability supports….surely their tax computer can perform a NZ student loan repayment function.

        • Wayne 1.2.2.1

          Rosemary
          You should have added as part of your plan of free tertiary education for everyone and for all course, plus forgiving all existing debt that you have just increased govt spending by about 4% of GDP, since around 70% of the population get some form of tertiary ed.
          All you have to do is increase taxes. It will require personal rates to go up by 25% across the board. However presumably you don’t want bottom tax rates to increase so the top rate will need to go to 66% as it was prior to 1984..
          Good luck with selling that idea.

          • Molly 1.2.2.1.1

            “the top rate will need to go to 66% as it was prior to 1984..
            Good luck with selling that idea.”

            Don’t worry Rosemary.

            I’ll buy that. After all, how much is enough?

          • Pat 1.2.2.1.2

            “All you have to do is increase taxes. It will require personal rates to go up by 25% across the board. However presumably you don’t want bottom tax rates to increase so the top rate will need to go to 66% as it was prior to 1984..
            Good luck with selling that idea.’

            absolute bollocks…..what was the rate of GST prior to 1984 Wayne? …it might however require the enforcement of existing tax law and /or closing of a few of those convenient loopholes….IRD funding will likely need increasing as well while we are at it.

          • the pigman 1.2.2.1.3

            Parmjeet, is that you?

          • Rosemary McDonald 1.2.2.1.4

            Wayne
            How much did you pay to enroll for your first degree?

            How much did you have to pay for accommodation and living expenses.

            How much did you have to borrow from the government to pay for your university education?

            You may just have known someone who trained for a trade while you were studying…law, was it? Anyway…how much did apprentices have to pay to train during the time you were studying?

            Funny. don’t you think, that the loudest voices demanding today’s youth mortgage potentially their entire future to pay for their education are the privileged who got their education for free.

            I firmly hope there is an especially hot zone in hell for those New Zealanders over fifty years old who do not hang their heads in shame at this betrayal of today’s youth.

          • Chris 1.2.2.1.5

            You live in a fixed wee world with your own fixed wee parameters. That’s how the right present their facts. The right’s position assumes so much is unchangeable. Was Labour’s introduction of user pays in education inevitable? That’s what you’re saying and it’s not true. How about we start with the unnecessary increases in defence spend? And no doubt, true to form, you won’t say a word. That’s because what you all too often do is spray and walk away. You are a coward.

    • Molly 1.3

      Most – if not all- of Ministry of Ed goals is to get people to leave school with Level 2 NCEA which will allow them entry into basic tertiary education.

      School students are told that tertiary qualifications are the goal for success, and many of them have made that choice under that belief. Of course, others have chosen it because entry level job remuneration does not provide them with independence, it often is not enough for covering basic living costs (unless they have support – financial or otherwise).

      Our universities have now become oriented around collecting student fees (domestic and international) rather than being sufficiently funded by government. Both policy changes and tax cuts have contributed to this, and let’s stay aware of the debacle of international students that is finally being told in the media.

      Along with failure to support local business and local workers, our graduates find that despite following all the rules it was all a big lie. There is no work for graduates. There are limited jobs for young people at all. Housing costs and high immigration alongside an atrophy of workers rights and pay, have resulted in a work environment that will sink them further in the financial mire, at the beginning of their working life. So they head to Australia.

      Their home government, despite being able to provide that loan interest free – because let’s face it – they could create that money and tax it out – instead charges an interest rate higher than some retail banks.

      Let’s list it in sequence about what has happened in the last couple of decades:
      1. Government has Increased student fees and removed access for many to student allowances.
      2. Funding has been reduced significantly and this shortfall has been covered by the increased domestic fees charged and the large influx of international students.
      3. Ministry of Education continues to lie about the security offered by tertiary education all the way through the schooling years, then issues loans under that fallacy to many students that have no other method of meeting the increased financial costs,
      4. Meanwhile, workers rights and housing access continues to worsen, while the economy is reduced to disaster payments and inflated housing and polluting industries,
      5. Graduates discover that tertiary qualifications and entry level positions in NZ, do not provide enough to meeting living costs, let alone pay an extra 10% in repayments to their loan.
      6. They travel to our nearest neighbour to try and get some kind of life while they are still young, and find they can do so, but sometimes not enough to pay back the required amounts that is requested.
      7. They resign themselves to being student loan exiles from their own country. And the debt piles up.

      James, our education system should be free.

      We have coerced a large demographic of our young people into getting out loans that provide them with a major financial burden at the beginning of their independent lives.

      Yes, they did take on that debt. But we ensured that the most financially strapped students had to do so in order to get a tertiary education. Others are lucky enough to have support (financial or otherwise) from friends and family.

      In NZ, we are creating an education system where if you are not able to be assisted financially by friends and family, you will be financially penalised for many years to come for getting that degree.

      So low paid professions will be disregarded – although they may be in high need.

      I personally consider the student loan system to be a big marketing lie, and because of that – I really don’t care if it is collected.

      And for that reason would forgive any interest, and the loan itself if the graduates return to NZ to utilise that learning for the benefit of NZ for at least five years.

      Go after the avoided tax (on profits) that is avoided by many multi-nationals.
      Go after the avoided tax in our immoral tax havens.
      Don’t go after those investments in society that an educated repatriated graduate demographic would bring.

      • Carolyn_nth 1.3.1

        Yep. Agree totally – and I am an oldie who had some free tertiary education (mostly part time) and some I did in later years with a student loan I have since paid back. Happy for a student loan write-off, and return to free tertiary education.

        Education (vocational or for personal/social/scientific,etc understanding and knowledge) is an investment for the whole of society. Helps serve democracy.

      • David C 1.3.2

        Molly.

        I agree that govt should be making everyone pay a fair share of tax. Google etc included.

        But.

        Why should an accountancy practice be able to hire a recent graduate for $20/hr?
        Why should a librarian with a masters degree get $45,000/yr

        Why is a worker on $15/hr paying tax for these people to get trained ?

        Salaries need to rise thru demand for staf and this will only happen when graduate numbers in some skill areas drop.

        Over training is just wasting precious resources.

        • WILD KATIPO 1.3.2.1

          Neo liberal translation :

          ‘Lets keep em all thick and controllable ‘

        • Molly 1.3.2.2

          Education includes not only degrees, but community education and apprenticeship training.

          Was replying to James in respect of student loans – also accessible to apprentices as far as I know.

  2. james 2

    “”And $430 million of that is in default. Inland Revenue will now start chasing up these borrowers and taking action to get their student loan repayments back on track.””

    Not asking that much is it Paul – they just need to get their repayments back on track.

    • And I jolly well hope they chase up all those naughty little brats who put all their stolen lollies from overseas into that precocious little Johnnie Keys piggy banks as well , Jamsey Wamsey…

      You know how we all feel about this , Jamsey Wamsey ,… we do our best to look after you children but we cant feed all the neighborhoods children lollies as well…

  3. Paul 3

    Angry Kaikoura coast locals vent their quake frustrations at PM Bill English, Gerry Brownlee

    English landed in a Defence Force chopper on the lawn of Kekerengu café The Store this afternoon, to be met with around 40 furious and frustrated locals.
    One local Clarence farmer, John Murray, told English: “We had a meeting here three weeks ago and Gerry was here, and we left full of hope that something was going to happen … we have sat down there for three weeks and nothing has bloody well happened and its shocking, it is the absolute pits.”
    He said progress on opening roads was too slow.
    “No-one has attacked this northern end, the road’s been open from Blenheim, no one’s started tidying this road up at all, they’ve made patch-up repairs all the way through and the roads from Ward and Waipapa Bay should have been upgraded and ready to go so we could just go into the next stage.
    “Nothing has been done except patch up and I reckon it’s p*** poor and if that’s what our Government feels about us and how they deal with emergencies then I’m afraid you have lost a lot of votes and a lot of confidence in this area.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11767842

    • weka 3.2

      “We had a meeting here three weeks ago and Gerry was here, and we left full of hope that something was going to happen … we have sat down there for three weeks and nothing has bloody well happened and its shocking, it is the absolute pits.”

      “Nothing has been done except patch up and I reckon it’s p*** poor and if that’s what our Government feels about us and how they deal with emergencies then I’m afraid you have lost a lot of votes and a lot of confidence in this area.”

      I’m sorry, but Kaikoura isn’t that far from Chch. What on earth made them think that what came out of Brownlee’s mouth was going to be real? And great if they’re not going to vote National now, but what about the last election when this shit was already playing out for several years in Canterbury?

  4. james 4

    “Are the wheels coming off?”

    Nope.

    • Paul 4.1

      I’d be more interested in what the people of Kaikoura think.

      • Cinny 4.1.1

        Exactly, and often media are a little too selective on the locals they ask, hence the Nat supporter at the end of the herald article praising them, pushing the echo. Meanwhile the majority of public there are not so happy and I can’t say i blame them, very proud of them for making it known. Well done, speak your mind and tell us all like it really is.

        Far out, the arrogance of Brownlee, and the locals won’t forget today and they will be talking about it for sometime afterwards.

        I’m sure locals will be thrilled about them stopping at a vineyard aka class b drug manufacturing plantation to inspect their ‘cracked tanks’ on the way back home. Ho fucken ho ho ho.

        Dearest Opposition parties, maybe some of your MP’s or people could spend a couple of days here and there in Kaikoura just helping out over the summer holidays, an awesome opportunity to really get to know the locals there, support their community and walk the talk, show you care. Some of us have not the means to go there. Now it’s summer and a great place for a holiday, maybe go help them out. No need to make a media frenzy about it, that would be shallow. Just boots on the ground, no announcement, just stop in and help a bit.

    • Chris 4.2

      Key was a phenomenon. You really think the nats can win without him? Just look at Bennett. Pure shit comes out of her mouth every time she opens it. And poor old Bill’s just a plodder. The nats need to stay in the late 40% til the next election. Slipping just a bit and it’s curtains. You really think English and Bennett can keep things where Key had them? They made the nats look hopeless at their first press conference. It can only get worse. They’re history.

      • Pat 4.2.1

        they are appalling and Key certainly held many in a trance (MSM included) but the opposition parties cannot sleep walk to an election win….they need to up their own game at the same time as the Nats crash

        • Chris 4.2.1.1

          Yes, that’s the trouble. My guess, though, is that Labour’s lack of depth or oomph (or whatever you want to call it), together with the “Key’s gone” factor will mean the nats will lose next year rather than Labour winning. The margins over the last three elections have been slim and MMP at the moment gives the left, as well as Labour, the advantage in that regard. The difference will be whether Labour starts doing stupid things like it’s done over the last couple of elections. They just need to stay boringly steady and let the nats’ cringe factor, led by Bennett, do the work for them.

          • Carolyn_nth 4.2.1.1.1

            Labour would benefit for continuing to (re)introduce more candidates like Michael Wood and Laila Harre.

  5. BM 5

    Fucking Askimet, what a piece of fucking shit it is, whoever coded this, needs to be fucked up the arse repeatedly with the sharp end of a pineapple.

  6. Nick 6

    how about $30 Million for a flag referendum / flight of fancy by an ex-PMp – Shonkey should pay that back

      • WILD KATIPO 6.1.1

        Why did he have the compulsive need to waste 30 million of the commons money on HIS personal vanity project ?

        When the little fucker knew damn well after consulting with his little mate David Farrar no one wanted it and that 30 million could have been better put to 41000 homeless or the poor bastards having to sleep in their cars?

        What sort of idiot are you buddy?

        You’ve just negated your whole argument about student loans and personal responsibility in deference to those who hold a position of political privilege yet still squander the public purse without any personal responsibility or accountability.

        Moron.

        • Paul 6.1.1.1

          I think a boycott of James is in order.

          • Nick 6.1.1.1.1

            James should also pay back his Standard loans (everyone here has spent a lot on his education) too much actually

            • WILD KATIPO 6.1.1.1.1.1

              Ha! – the neo liberal is only ever any good when their using someone else’s money – in the classic case above of Jame’s hero John Key spending the commons wealth on his own ego gratification projects – that in itself negates the whole notion of ‘ personal responsibility ‘ they like to crap on about.

              Sickening.

              What a pathetic two faced hypocritical dogma neo liberalism really and truly is.

        • Nick 6.1.1.2

          Exactly….shonkey knew the Flag was something no-one even thought about, but his Ego said FUCK NZ I AM THE MAN (he fund out he wasnt, but too late, the money was burned)…..and while were at it MCScummy can pay back his Multi million $$ bribe gone wrong Saudi farm….eh James…..the Natz list just goes on and on……

        • alwyn 6.1.1.3

          ” HIS personal vanity project ?”.
          Really?
          Actually he was simply being kind to the benighted Labour Party.
          Knowing that they were never going to become the Government he very kindly gave the Public a chance to accept or reject one of the core items in Labour’s 2014 manifesto.
          There policy was not merely to give the public a chance to change the flag. It was to change it, regardless of what the public thought.
          Key very kindly gave the public a chance to give their view on the matter.
          They didn’t think very highly of the Labour Party policy, did they?

          • Cinny 6.1.1.3.1

            Nat’s love to pinch policy karma on them if that’s the case.

            Keys choice of flag was the vanity

            i saw Keys flag the other day, up a pole, looking tatty and torn just like the outgoing government, and thought to myself that’s Keys flag, and Key has gone, must say it was a good feeling.

          • WILD KATIPO 6.1.1.3.2

            Yeah and your another idiot alwyn . Along with about 4 or 5 other morons who post here that just cant accept neo liberalism is dying its cancerous death.

            Go back to your knitting.

          • framu 6.1.1.3.3

            “” HIS personal vanity project ?”.
            Really?”

            yes – really. There has never been a popular, public based push for changing the flag. (people have tried but its always been a fizzer)

            then from day one he proceeded to put his own view into the debate at every oppourtunity

            its pathetic to try and blame labour for the choices key made – grow up

        • James 6.1.1.4

          What was labours policy on the flag – scarily similar to keys – just a chance in execution- so hardly HIS vanity project.

          • WILD KATIPO 6.1.1.4.1

            Yes , and conveniently for you far right wing neo liberals you like to have a bob each way.

            As the ‘change the flag ‘ debacle only pertains to those types of agitators- who have their people in both party’s – and to those who wish to rewrite NZ history.

            You’ll never win using that line of attack, bud.

            Back to the knitting you go.

  7. Adrian 7

    Kekerengu is Tory heartland, how stupid is Brownlie.
    As you say , they are just getting a taste of what everybody else has been putting up with from these bastards.
    BTW, the vineyard they visited is Yealands now owned collectively by everyone in Marlborough through the local lines trust. Please don’t bag it too much.

    • tc 7.1

      Wtf is a lines trust doing buying a vineyard…..sounds very dodgy to me given the inherent risk profile in the wine business.

    • Paul 8.1

      ‘For the past few weeks, British news-papers have been informing their readers about two contrasting battles in the killing grounds of the Middle East. One is Mosul, in northern Iraq, where western reporters are accompanying an army of liberation as it frees a joyful population from terrorist control. The other concerns Aleppo, just a few hundred miles to the west. This, apparently, is the exact opposite. Here, a murderous dictator, hellbent on destruction, is waging war on his own people.’

      • Wayne 8.1.1

        Paul,
        Possibly because the reporting accurately reflects the fact that the two situations are different. As indeed the quote you used illustrates that point (although I do realise it is a Fisk quote meant as irony).

        • One Two 8.1.1.1

          The situations are the same

          Iraq and Syria have both suffered destruction directly and indirectly by western forces. Others are in ruins and others still being reduced to rubble…

          Semantics are for the weak, cowardly and dishonest!

        • Paul 8.1.1.2

          It’s only different if you are a US lackey, like you Wayne

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