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Daily Review 18/10/2018

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, October 18th, 2018 - 93 comments
Categories: Daily review - Tags:

Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

93 comments on “Daily Review 18/10/2018 ”

  1. SPC 1

    How common is it for National MP’s to have relationships with women staffers in parliament?

    Ignoring the extra-marital side of it, is this seen as a perk of the job, to exploit their status as MP’s for sexual advantage?

    Most workplaces have rules around this sort of behaviour, whatever the nature of the behaviour of Jamie-Lee Ross in these relationships, the recurring incidence of them speaks to a wider culture.

    A Wellington law firm has been in the news for hiring young women laywers to provide eye candy to hard working male staff (then later social company when drunk, then to breed for them when passed over for promotion) – is it the same in parliament?

    PS Brett Kavanaugh was outed by tiger mum, a Yale law professor, over his penchant for hiring feminine model types as law interns – she instructed her Yale graduates to dress in a certain way if they wanted to be hired.

    • Anne 1.1

      How common is it for National MP’s to have relationships with women staffers in parliament?

      As I said on this site the other day it’s a rite of passage. Once upon a time the pinnacle of success was to… have it off in the Speakers Chair.

      • Appleboy 1.1.1

        Literally- which reminds me as I noticed David Carter skulking in the dimly lit corner of Havana bar, a few weeks back, with a striking wee thing that was neither wife nor daughter. They are all the same.

    • McFlock 1.2

      Adults have relationships.

      The problem is when there is a power imbalance and social pressure/alcohol that impairs the ability to consent.

      Being an arsehole in your private life is not necessarily a crime or an employment matter. Using power to coerce people in your workplace to have sex is (at the very least) an employment matter.

      Haven’t read much about the specific allegations concerning Ross, I expect more will come out soon. It’s fun watching the riot, but the confirmed specifics on all allegations will take weeks to settle out one way or the other.

      • Carolyn_Nth 1.2.1

        Well this from David Fisher at the NZH about an hour ago:

        A National Party candidate has spoken about a campaign of harassment by rogue MP Jami-Lee Ross which became so severe she sought medical help and intervention by the party hierarchy.

        Manurewa candidate Katrina Bungard told the Herald Ross had harassed her in 2016 and 2017.

        She said Ross began the campaign to get wife Lucy Schwaner appointed as chair of the Howick Community Board in east Auckland.

        “(Lusk) rang me and told me I could have a great career in politics, that he would get me this job and that job.

        “Then he said he can only do these things if you’re in a good place with Jami-Lee. If you fall out, I can’t do anything.”

        Collings had complained to National Party general manager Greg Hamilton about Ross’ behaviour over the vote for the chair’s role.

        Collings said: “He was being a dickhead and a bit of a prat and I wanted him to stop. Greg said he would have a word to him. But it carried on.”

        Bungard said the campaign then became one which was a result of her refusal to do as Ross had wanted.

        It included being served a trespass order when she tried to attend a National Party morning tea for senior citizens.


        • McFlock

          The active role played by Lusk is interesting.

          But to be frank, that’s the sort of dirty politics I’d expect to be routine by the nats. And I don’t for one minute believe the comments by people who had been complained to that they were shocked and stunned by the “full extent” of what Ross has been doing – they were in a position to know. Unless there are actual bodies buried, it’s typical dirty politics. Hell, Collins is trying to act shocked about an affair and some bullying, but she cracked jokes about prison rapes resulting from her policies. Suddenly she, like everyone else who would have been well aware of all the complaints, is surprised and concerned. Unbelievable.

          He sounds like a manipulative, entitled piece of crap – kind of like most of the young nats I was acquainted with at university.

    • Dukeofurl 1.3

      I think one of the women ‘ who works around parliament’s is a journalist. There was previous reference to this woman getting inside info from Ross for a story.
      Strangely this journalist seems to have gone quiet this week on political stories.

  2. Anne 2

    Such a loverlee photo. Thanks mickey.

    Watching all their tawdry chickens coming home to roost…. 😀

    • Draco T Bastard 2.1

      Is it just me or does that prat in the dark blue suit on the right of the front row look like Rob Muldoon?

      • Anne 2.1.1

        Checked out his biography. He’s Matt Doocey, MP for Waimakiriki. Former speaker, David Carter is his uncle. Jobs for the boys by the looks of it. He does look a bit like Muldoon but without his bruising personality and gritty intellect.

        • veutoviper

          It is obvious neither of you watch Question Time. LOL.

          Matt is also Junior Whip (since March 2018) and sits immediately behind Paula Bennett (and Simon Bridges) so is in camera range for all questions asked by either of them.

          He sits next to Barbara Kuriger who was appointed as Senior Whip in March 2018 in place of JLR, when Bridges moved Ross up the ranks and also appointed him Nat’s Transport Spokesperson.

          There have been some claims this week that part of Ross’ antagonism to Bridges is that Ross wanted to retain the Senior Whip position as well as being a Spokesperson (for the extra pay). This combination of Whip/Spokesperson roles is not usual. Its usually one or the other – but in fact Doocey has retained his Mental Health spokesperson* position which he got from English in Nov 2017 as well as being appointed Junior Whip.

          Ross had worked his way up from Third Whip in Jan 2013, to Junior Whip in Oct 2014, and then Senior Whip in May 2017.

          * Actually Doocey’s professional background is quite interesting. According to Wikipedia, he is a former manager with Canterbury DHB and ” … worked in mental health and health-care management in both New Zealand and the UK. He studied Counselling Psychology at Weltech, has a BSc (Hons) in Social Policy, an MA in Healthcare Management from Kingston University in London and an MSc in Global Politics from Birkbeck, University of London.”

          He also did well votewise in increasing his original 2,500 majority in 2014 by over 10,000 in 2017 – the highest personal vote increase in the 2017 election.

  3. ianmac 3

    Interesting to hear Bridges this PM say that the first he heard of Ross misbehaviour was the day that he acted promptly and called Ross into his office and dealt with him. The journalists were trying to check the timeline. Just in case Bridges was lying.

  4. outofbed 4

    We can draw our own conclusions that most of the females in the pic are as far away from JLR as possible

    • Gabby 5.1

      We don’t sell enough drugs.

    • alwyn 5.2

      I imagine that is because you aren’t willing to invest in anything.

      FYI. Restaurant Brands is listed in the NZX.
      The symbol is RBD and the last sale price was $8.67.
      If you had bought them yesterday they would have been about $1.07 cheaper.
      So come on. Be a patriotic Kiwi and invest in New Zealand companies.
      Then you could say we do own things ourselves.

      • Dukeofurl 5.2.1

        If it goes overseas that will be the last time we get any company tax out of them, as they likely operate out of tax havens

        • alwyn

          Fast food isn’t a business I know much about but I wouldn’t think it was one where you could shift all your profits offshore and avoid tax.

          The bulk of your costs are going to be things and people that you either purchase or employ here. It isn’t like high-tech concerns which import all the things they sell from other companies in the same group who operate overseas. They also employ very few people who work here and pay a great deal for the intellectual property in the things they sell.

          There will be some royalty payments for the use of brand names like KFC and Starbucks but it won’t be anything like the payments that go to companies like Apple.

          KFC don’t make that much money anyway. Their net profit after tax was about $35m on sales of $740m. That is only about 5%.

          So no, I don’t see that they could get anywhere by trying to shift all their profits overseas and even if they could they certainly can’t avoid paying a very large amount of GST, can they?

          Someone who knows the industry may have a different view of course.

          Of course you could join the rush and buy the company if you think it is such a good deal. Just be in and buy your share of them tomorrow.

          • Dukeofurl

            Royalty payments and IP even for standard business processes are prime areas for profit shifting.
            RB nett profits after tax was said to beb$35 mill

            It’s not chicken feed …..hahaha

            • Draco T Bastard


              And something that needs to be made illegal as it’s just a way to steal from those who live here and pay taxes.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.2.2

        ~2/3rds of ‘income’ from shares is from trading. This income does not go to the company and so buying shares on the share-market is not investing in those companies (Why we can’t afford the rich by by Andrew Sayer, Richard Wilkinson).

        The only time that the money goes to the company is when they’re initially offered and they would be better offered as a bond or a loan which does not transfer perpetual ownership or control.

        • alwyn

          “buying shares on the share-market is not investing in those companies”.
          Very good. At least you understand what Investment means in Economics.

          You will note, of course, that I never used the word “Invest” in my remarks. I suggested that people should “buy” shares in the company if the don’t want all the shares to be sold to a Mexican based group.

          My comment still stands. If enough people buy the shares in Restaurant Brands they can prevent it being taken over by a foreign buyer. If they aren’t willing to do that they can’t really complain about it.

          • Draco T Bastard

            You will note, of course, that I never used the word “Invest” in my remarks.

            Right here:

            I imagine that is because you aren’t willing to invest in anything.

            Be a patriotic Kiwi and invest in New Zealand companies.”

            So that would be you lying again.

            I suggested that people should “buy” shares in the company if the don’t want all the shares to be sold to a Mexican based group.

            The problem being that the Mexican company isn’t investing in the NZ company either – it’s just buying it out. The country will lose from such a transaction as all the profits are shipped offshore along with any IP and possibly the company itself.

            If enough people buy the shares in Restaurant Brands they can prevent it being taken over by a foreign buyer.

            Offshore ownership needs to be banned as it’s bad for the country.

  5. greywarshark 6

    GST on imported items under $400 going to be charged GST. Has anyone thought through the plans of the effect it will have? I doubt it? I am all for NZ business if possible, but the market is pretty screwed up.


    • Gabby 6.1

      How about used items? They’ll be exempt won’t they.

      • AsleepWhileWalking 6.1.1

        Its actually pretty clever (although I resent the tax).

        Companies that sell under 60k to NZ in a year are exempt in the same way NZ companies under 60k turnover don’t gave to sign up for get.

        Not sure if used items from eBay are covered, but I think because eBay is a marketplace and the sellers themselves probably won’t meet that criteria should be OK.

        Unless Customs pings you for having brought something worth over 400

    • Dukeofurl 6.2

      What’s the problem with charging gst for the stuff under $400?

      • greywarshark 6.2.1

        1 It can make things that are not easily obtainable in NZ even dearer (the freight bills are very high).
        2 The suggestion is that the GST should be collected by the seller rather than requiring the work to be done here in NZ. This means that a a lot of sellers will refuse to deal with NZ. This already is happening,; I was surprised when I looked at British alarm clocks on google to see how many sellers would not bother to deal with us at present. I got one and have had difficulties with it.

        I think our access for overseas direct purchases will be further limited.

  6. greywarshark 7

    The national carrier is working on the project with Zephyr Airworks, who is behind the world’s first self-piloted electric vehicle.

    Air New Zealand chief executive Christopher Luxon said the agreement with the operator of Cora signalled a plan to make electric air taxi travel a reality for all New Zealanders.

    “Zephyr Airworks is leading the way in re-defining personal mobility to make it easier for all of us to get around,” Mr Luxon said.

    “Both companies see the potential for our airspace to free people from the constraints of traffic and its associated social, economic and environmental impacts.”

    Relieving the impact of polluting emissions was now “very real”, he said.

    • Draco T Bastard 7.1

      Both companies see the potential for our airspace to free people from the constraints of traffic…


      Obviously they haven’t watched either Back to the Future or Fifth Element.

      Putting the cars into the sky doesn’t get rid of ‘lanes’ or congestion. Do none of these people understand how networks work?

      • SpaceMonkey 7.1.1

        This will be aimed at business executives and wealthy individuals. It should read “…free people who can afford it from the constraints…”

        And the emissions statement is a last minute thought of benefit. It wouldn’t have been a sought for outcome.

  7. Ad 8

    Can we get past this National Party meaningless shenanigans and start getting back to policy and poverty and actual stuff?

    • greywarshark 8.1


    • Dukeofurl 8.2

      You would say that Ad.
      Politicians and dodgy donations go to the heart of the system..not meaningless

      • Ed 8.2.1

        This story has shown us a lot about right wing politics in New Zealand.

        The levels of corruption
        Cash for candidates
        Casual racism
        The ongoing presence of Hager’s Dirty Politics

        Anyone voting for National after this signs up to all of the above.

        • alwyn

          “casual racism”.
          I suppose you could claim a little bit of that, although it was primarily by Ross.

          On the other hand it was a great deal less in what was thought to be a private conversation than the dreadful public “humour” purveyed by the very highest levels of the Coalition of Fools.

          Do you prefer the hilarious joke told by a person who thinks that the statement about Chinese that “Two Wongs don’t make a White” was the height of sophisticated humour.

          Do you approve of what your lot think is funny?

          • Draco T Bastard

            Do you approve of what your lot think is funny?

            I’m pretty sure that Winston has closer connections to your lot as far as that type of bollocks go.

            • alwyn

              I assume that you are in favour of the current Government?
              He is, as you are probably aware the Deputy Prime Minister in a New Zealand First/Labour Government. Remember?

              He hasn’t had anything to do with a National led Government since 1998, when Shipley had the sense to dump him.
              Then in 2008, before the election, the National Party leader said that they would not go into Government with him because he could not be trusted.

              Now he is running the Coalition with Labour who have given him the keys to the piggybank, and God knows what else. Why won’t they let the New Zealand know what he has been given?
              Closer connections with National than the idiots in the Labour and Green parties my foot. The are all tucked up in bed together while they rob and ruin the New Zealand economy.

              • Draco T Bastard

                Closer connections with National

                He’s a conservative with the old style thinking that goes with it – just like National.

      • Ad 8.2.2

        Its 900 comments of salacious beltway crap on this site alone. No one likes watching sausage getting made. But the demand for sausage is high.

        27% of our children in poverty.

        • marty mars

          Labour and mates are working on the other issues aren’t they? Why are you grumpy?

          • Ad

            We’re not.
            We’re stupidly distracted

            • solkta

              For the sake of life balance surely it is worth taking at least a couple of days out to have a good laugh at this.

            • marty mars

              Bit harsh. Been lots of comment on wide subject matters imo.

            • Dukeofurl

              Surely Ad you cant think the years of jaw jaw on the standard have meant one less child in poverty. Famously labour Mps are reputed to not even read it.
              It’s social media after all

            • Andre

              Surely a local shitshow that eclipses the turd tornado in DC (and hoo boy that’s sayin sumthin) is worth a few days R & R to just enjoy watching the craptacle.

        • Draco T Bastard

          and almost all of that poverty caused by the corruption that we see here.

          It’s not meaningless. It needs to be thoroughly addressed.

      • Bill 8.2.3

        Politicians and dodgy donations go to the heart of the system…

        Nah. It only speaks to their corruption. And we’ve known they’re corrupt ‘since forever’.

        You want to get anywhere near the heart of the system? (I doubt many do btw – preferring vacuous cheerleading and easy to opine on shit over substance every time). But if you do, then you have to start examining and talking about things like poverty – as Ad suggests.

  8. Ed 9

    Looks like more problems brewing for the National Party.
    Happy to hush the stories of abuse when it suited them.
    Happy to use the stories of abuse when it suited them.

    So on top of Filipinos, Indians, Chinese and list MPs, women are also commodities to be exploited by the National Party establishment.


    “National Party president Peter Goodfellow ‘signed confidentiality agreement’ with woman.
    National Party president Peter Goodfellow helped broker a “peace agreement” that included a confidentiality clause between Jami-Lee Ross and a woman who felt threatened by him, a source has told Stuff.

    The agreement was signed before Simon Bridges became leader of the party and promoted Ross to the front bench. It is unclear if he was aware of the incident.

    Stuff was told by a source close to the woman that the agreement was signed after the she went to Goodfellow and another senior National Party member with complaints about Ross’ threatening and bullying behaviour.”


    • Chuck 9.1

      Don’t be an idiot Ed…confidentiality agreements are a two-way street.

      Maybe focus back on the Middle East/Russian stuff buddy.

      • Ed 9.1.1


      • Draco T Bastard 9.1.2

        If a crime has been committed then such a contract exists to hide that crime and that is illegal. Something about perverting the course of justice, conspiracies etcetera.

        You cannot contract out of the law.

    • Ed 9.2

      Looking really bad for National and for Peter Goodfellow.

      Goodfellow won’t answer the questions.
      All board members won’t answer the questions.

      Who is the other National Party member given a trespass notice?

      So many questions….

      ‘The National Party has known for a couple of years about grievances regarding Jami-Lee Ross’ conduct, and got one complainant to sign a confidentiality agreement, sources have told Checkpoint.’

    • Gabby 9.3

      Can’t wait to hear from Goodfellas. He’s always so open and honest.

    • Gabby 10.1

      I wondered about that, like any Southland businesses changed hands lately.

      • Ed 10.1.1

        I seems like the Mayor has a lot explaining to do.

        “Tong’s relationship with Zhang has raised a few eyebrows this week in Southland.
        Stuff has spoken to many of the district councillors. Few of them had heard of Zhang until the donation scandal erupted on Tuesday. Most knew Tong was in China, but didn’t really know why. They want a full briefing from the mayor when he returns home on October 22.“

        I repeat.

        “Most knew Tong was in China, but didn’t really know why. They want a full briefing from the mayor when he returns home on October 22.“


        “Zhang wanted to know if “there was any way he could help bring people to Southland through immigrants or through promoting some sort of business” in the region,Tong said.

        The pair met again later that year at Zhang’s home in Auckland where mayors from across the country had gathered for a “Chinese promotion”.

        By that stage a friendship between the pair was developing.”

        This sounds very dodgy,

  9. Chuck 11

    Ha Winston getting owned by Finlayson this afternoon…no doubt Winnie will console himself with a nice Glenlivet single malt or two tonight.

    “Mr Finlayson, a former lawyer, has hit back at his comments with a sarcastic post on his official Facebook page.”

    “I am humbled by Winston Peters assessment of me as the ‘greatest legal mind the Commonwealth has ever seen’,” he wrote.

    “That is high praise indeed from someone who never got any further in the law than being a staff solicitor in a Howick Law Firm.

    “If ever he needs me to act for him in, for example, a hearing in the Privileges Committee, he has only to ask,” he continued.

  10. Ankerrawshark 12

    Findlayson and other Nats hurting at the Moment, lashing out

  11. Ed 13

    “That was audition number 1.”
    Five minutes of fun.

    • Rosemary McDonald 13.1

      Oh, Winston.

      Shakes head, sighs.

      You and your rear guard gloating and goading and giggling away like gangling adolescents.

      Grow up and show some grace.

      We had nine damn years of kick-them-when-they’re-down politics.

      We don’t need it from you lot.

      You’ve got work to do….

      • ianmac 13.1.1

        Don’t agree Rosemary. His content was timely and funny. The Opposition would be like you and not amused.

        • Rosemary McDonald

          “The Opposition…” just spent the last few days self destructing. Admittedly a pleasurable spectacle for those of us in the margins, but I’m still in hope that we finally have a Government that can behave…better.

      • Pat 13.1.2

        i fear Rosemary ‘work’ (for the benefit of the country) is just about the last thing on their minds….sadly

    • ianmac 13.2

      That was classic Peters. Funny. Clever. Perceptive. And though he had a few notes it was otherwise unscripted. Not sure anyone in the House could outclass him.

      • greywarshark 13.2.1

        Agree 10/10. There is so much mud slung around over time, that pollies can’t be blamed for having a laugh and some digs at the other side when it is so appropriate. The obfuscation that the National Party pollies and their supporters always wallow in is hard to stomach. I am pleased to see Winston jousting so well – he deserves a knighthood.

        The National’s knight is but a poor competitor with ideas above his station!

      • WILD KATIPO 13.2.2

        Indeed, hes a rare one of a kind survivor and battler, and does it with panache and wit. National has brought this mess on themselves , after dishing it out to all and sundry for years and now its their turn . So why shouldn’t Peters provide a light hearted batch of comic relief at the absurdity in which National finds itself in.

        They brought it on their own heads.

        And they deserve to be lampooned.

  12. Incognito 14

    The spin masters are working hard to portray JLR as ‘a lone wolf’. But JLR denies he’s the leaker and it also conveniently ignores internal polling that Had Simon Bridges down at minus 27%.

    I believe there was a pack of wolves but JLR went off the reservation, bigly.

    The infamous National Party unity is and always has been a manufactured myth; its united front appears to be based on coercion, threats & intimidation, and fear. Oh, and of course the insatiable hunger for power & control.

    • greywarshark 14.1

      Sounds like the Spanish Inquisition.

    • Carolyn_Nth 14.2

      It’s interesting how many mainstream journalists are using Nicky Hager’s Dirty Politics book as a source for explaining JLR’s behaviour, and that of others in the National Party.

      I thought David Fisher’s article this morning was an important one in explaining the National Party history and the rise of Dirty Politics and JLR. Hager’s 2 books (Hollow Men and DP), plus the JLR-Bridges saga will be an important part of the historical record of the rise and fall of the National Party.


      The National Party machine is the envy of other parties. From its crushing election defeat in 2002, when many believed it a spent force, it was rebuilt brutally, carefully and methodically.

      Structures were designed, the board empowered to build longevity, emphasis was placed on calculated and deliberate fundraising. Risk was not tolerated. The party was being built to last a thousand years.

      Part of the genius was the courting of the new Chinese-New Zealand community.

      For those who watched it unfold, it was clear that Ross was still receiving advice from his old mentor, Simon Lusk.

      The pacing of the allegations, the timing of the press conferences – it smacked of a carefully planned strategy intended to maximise and prolong coverage.

      However, the interesting thing is, how successful has been Lusk in the long term. Some successes in the shortish term, but then more fails,

      Was Todd Barclay one of Lusk’s fails?

      Sam Lotu-Iiga appears to have not lasted as long as Lusk had hoped.

      • Gabby 14.2.1

        Simpo Lush, patron saint of fuckknuckles..

      • RedLogix 14.2.2

        Yes .. as much as we oppose them, in the long run even in National some actual competency is necessary for long-term success.

        For instance Key; for all his skills at working a room or a crowd, and his ability to ruthlessly manage his party … wasn’t much good at anything else. If you look back, it’s the story of his life; a swift climb to the top of the greasy pole, clings on for quite a while and then an abrupt departure. And not much to show for it (at least not what he’d want you to see) when you look back.

        Ultimately it comes down to this; for all the power plays, dirty gotcha games … if you want to achieve something in Parliament you need to bring some real ability to the table. Money doesn’t buy this.

  13. The smiling faces of yesterdays aspirants…

  14. joe90 16


    When we refer back to ‘Dirty Politics’ in NZ, it’s easy to gloss over the implication of Nicky Hager’s subtitle which emphasised that this transactional, money-driven attack politics is *poisoning* our democratic environment.— Mark Rickerby (@maetl) October 17, 2018


    Secretive, unelected malignancies like Simon Lusk and Peter Goodfellow are at the centre of all these problems.— Mark Rickerby (@maetl) October 17, 2018

  15. outofbed 17

    Is that photo the worse Photo shopped photo ever or is Nathan guys head really that big ?

  16. Ed 18

    Anne-Marie Brady’s Twitter feed worth keeping an eye on.

    “At the heart of the bloodbath unfolding @NZNationalParty is an allegation of Beijing-backed political donations being laundered to escape reporting laws. Time to face up to the rot at the heart of our democracy & break the hold of corrosive outside money: Reform electoral finance.”

    “The most concerning aspect to the controversy over National’s hidden donations is that the source of the funds is a leader in #CCP united front work activities.”

    Much more here.


    • gsays 18.1

      Yep get stuck in to lobbying as well, I feel it is closely linked to corruption, and un-kiwi behaviour.
      Heavy trucks, booze in supermarkets and dairies, direct to consumer pharmaceutical advertising….

  17. Ed 19

    Seems like the High Commissioner of India to NZ, Sanjiv Kohli, isn’t impressed with Simon Bridges.

    “Shocking attitude . Highly inconsistent with nz values. Hopefully an aberration. India and indians respect and admire this country and its people. Not everything is up for sale. Running a country is different from managing David Jones.”


    • Graeme 19.1

      I can’t see the national party leader at the next election walking through a sea of blue turbans when entering Sky City for the after match after this.

    • Gabby 19.2

      India is perpetually enraged that the world fails to acknowledge its magnificence in all things.

  18. Ed 20

    Thought for the day from Rachel Stewart.

    “Bravery. You can go a long way on bravery, courage, heart. It can ensure a clarity of thought, and a willingness to embrace what Buddhists have banged on about for millennia. That is, living in the moment.

    Instead of staring at screens, and being constantly distracted, now would be a good a time to truly engage with those you love. To be grateful for what you have, and to try not to feel life’s bitter sweetness at every turn. Do the thing that brings you joy.

    That’s not fatalism. That’s acceptance. And if it turns out politicians and/or technology save the planet in the nick of time, like in the movies, then what’ve you lost? Indeed, think about how much you will have gained.”


  19. gsays 21

    There will be a lot of disappointed people in the Manawatu/Wanganui area with the murder trial of David Lyttle being abandoned.

    Could anyone with a knowledge of law tell me if there is a possibility of a retrial?


    Either incompetence or dodgy shenanigans from the constabulary.

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