Daily Review 22/11/2016

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, November 22nd, 2016 - 76 comments
Categories: Daily review - Tags:

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Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

76 comments on “Daily Review 22/11/2016 ”

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  1. Paul 1
    22 November 2016 at 6:31 pm

    Love the image

  2. halfcrown 2
    22 November 2016 at 7:14 pm

    With respect, but I think today is the 22nd. Easily done though and I have done similar things many a time.

  3. Cinny 3
    22 November 2016 at 7:30 pm

    Jeepers, Culverden had another quake an hour ago, shout out to all those in Canterbury, thinking of you’s. Cool photo and text on DR, timing huh? Dang

    Intensity severe
    Region intensity strong
    NZDT Tue, Nov 22 2016, 6:13:34 pm
    Depth 7 km
    Magnitude 5.7
    Location 15 km south-east of Culverden

  4. ianmac 4
    22 November 2016 at 8:51 pm

    Wonder if they could extend the Kaikoura airfield runway to take say 20 seater aircraft?

  5. Jenny Kirk 5
    22 November 2016 at 9:06 pm

    Great image. Hope its okay that I copied it to share with some friends !

  6. Muttonbird 6
    22 November 2016 at 9:40 pm

    Ug, it gets worse. We are now paying to have Duterte stay here.

    “He’s a tough guy but he was warm, courteous and actually quite charming,” McCully told the Herald afterwards.

    Where McCully comes from, Hitler would be charming.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11752972

    • In Vino 6.1
      22 November 2016 at 9:46 pm

      Hitler was charming. How do you think he sucked so many people in? More so than McCully, I would think.

      • Muttonbird 6.1.1
        22 November 2016 at 9:54 pm

        Can see why they are running to his hotel and sucking up to this guy yet won’t meet Hong Kong democracy leaders.

        These idiots Key and McCully are strengthening Duterte’s megalomania by inviting him here. Perhaps Key admires him for his actions.

        • James 6.1.1.1
          22 November 2016 at 10:09 pm

          Invited him here ??? I call bullshit on that.

          Making shit up again.

          • Muttonbird 6.1.1.1.1
            22 November 2016 at 10:24 pm

            What, he turned up here unannounced and McCully just happened to drop by to see if he was ok? Righto.

            Since we hard-working Kiwi taxpayers are paying for this monster’s buffet, I’m sure some half decent journalist will OIA the relevant information.

            • James 6.1.1.1.1.1
              23 November 2016 at 8:27 am

              You said it as a statement of fact – you cannot because he wasn’t invited and you are just pushing a bullshit lie.

              How about a citation on you claim – or admit your bullshit.

              • Muttonbird …
                23 November 2016 at 8:31 am

                Calm down, petal. The information will come out eventually.

                • james …
                  23 November 2016 at 10:09 am

                  So nothing – nothing at all.

                  So you lied.

                  • Muttonbird …
                    23 November 2016 at 10:23 am

                    Jaysus, you are more naive than I thought.

                    • james …
                      23 November 2016 at 10:35 am

                      Yeah – You posted a comment – it was a bullshit lie.

                      Yet you say “it will come out”, or someone could do an OIA and that will prove what you said was fact, without anything to prove it.

                      So my questioning unsubstainated comments presented as fact is “naive”

                      I think that your tin foil hat is a little tight.

                    • Muttonbird …
                      23 November 2016 at 10:50 am

                      We’ll see.

                      Duterte’s people signalled before APEC that he’d be coming to NZ so there’s certainly a sanctioning of the visit gone on, by McCully I presume – he’s that stupid.

                      I’d be interested how you intend to defend John Key’s government hosting Duterte and paying for his visit with our money…

        • One Two 6.1.1.2
          22 November 2016 at 11:23 pm

          Which Hong Kong ‘democracy leaders’ are you referring to?

          • Muttonbird 6.1.1.2.1
            22 November 2016 at 11:50 pm

            Former colonial chief secretary Anson Chan and Democratic Party founder Martin Lee.

            • One Two 6.1.1.2.1.1
              23 November 2016 at 12:04 am

              Martin Lee is linked with Joshua Wong and Benny Tai

              Still they use the word ‘democracy’

              Must be all above board then!

              • Muttonbird …
                23 November 2016 at 10:30 am

                Not sure what you are getting at. I’m just an ordinary punter and don’t know too much about the Hong Kong situation. What I do know is that Blinglish cancelled his meeting with Anson and Lee at 11:00pm the night before after being pressured by Beijing. The same Beijing which doesn’t allow its 1 Billion plus citizens the right to vote.

                • One Two …
                  23 November 2016 at 5:28 pm

                  Yes, sure

                  However you used Martin Lee and Anson Chan as way to somehow illustrate the current govt were ignoring ‘democracy seekers’ while “sucking up” to Durterte, who in your opinion is a [what]?

                  Then you say you don’t know much about the HK ‘situation’, yet you had used it anyway..

                  The HK ‘situation’ and primary actors are likely not what they sell themselves as

                  Funding sources are ‘well known’

                  • Muttonbird …
                    23 November 2016 at 7:24 pm

                    As far as I’m aware Anson and Lee haven’t carried out extra-judicial killings, and commanded a megalomaniacal breakdown in justice, in the name of a war on drugs like Duterte has.

                    Perhaps you have more information on this than I do?

                  • Muttonbird …
                    23 November 2016 at 9:28 pm

                    Here’s a piece on Duterte, who you didn’t like me referring to when I contrasted the way the current government treated him and Anson and Lee.

                    In it he talks of admiring New Zealanders for following the law, which is surprising because he does not.

                    Without elaborating much you claimed dark forces were behind Anson and Lee and Blinglish presumably was warranted in snubbing them at the request of the Chinese Embassy.

                    I know about as much of Phillipines history as I do Hong Kong’s, but I know a bit and was interested in Duterte’s backers – the family of the late, brutal, and overthrown former president Ferdinand Marcos.

                    I do hope you will let the forum know what similar dark forces are behind Anson and Lee.

                    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11753819

                    You asked what my opinion of Duterte was and I think he’s a dangerous man who will do a lot of damage to his country before being overthrown by popular uprising.

                    In short he is Marcos 2.0.

      • Draco T Bastard 6.1.2
        23 November 2016 at 7:34 pm

        Hitler was charming.

        Psychopaths are. Despite not understanding social relations they can fake them very well.

    • marty mars 6.2
      22 November 2016 at 9:54 pm

      Yep all the dictators have been wonderful people, very misunderstood – sure they were selfish small handed idiots but hey at least they patted dogs and made the trains run on time //sarc

      some actually believe that and guess what? They ain’t from the LEFT.

  7. Peter Swift 7
    22 November 2016 at 10:18 pm

    One day back, one more day of divisive misdirection and predictable antagonism.
    I appreciate the notion of a melting pot of ideas and conversation, but clearly the situation with CV has reached an impasse and there can be no positive outcome. Someone has to make the call and stick by it.
    [deleted] is now just a troll, offering nothing but disunity and loaded, fractured soundbites, with even a moderator openly criticizing the exporting of ” lazily embraced ‘vile’” as a modus operandi.
    Someone, for sanity’s sake, make the fucking call. Either CV goes forever or you ban every one else. There is no third way here. The way I see it, these are the only choices.

    Fingers crossed for the sake of the site and it’s diminishing reputation the call gets made either way. This is nuts at the best of times, and suicide leading up to an election

    [see moderator note below]

    • Gabby 7.1
      22 November 2016 at 11:25 pm

      You’ll be sure to mark clearly the party line that is to be toed? Wouldn’t want to get toes trodden on.

      • Peter Swift 7.1.1
        22 November 2016 at 11:39 pm

        Nothing to do with party lines, it’s all about why you are here and what you hope to achieve by doing so, and CV clearly has nothing to offer anyone but the shittiest end of the ugly stick. You feel free to dab yourself with it, but I’m expecting, hoping, someone somewhere will take the long term view and be brave in making the correct decision.
        The half dozen suck ups and sycophants will just have to suck it up, get with the program or take the righteous way and fall on their +100 fuckwit swords.

    • One Two 7.2
      22 November 2016 at 11:30 pm

      As your comments appear to be tolerated…..

      Example being the repetitive projection tactics you seem incapable of developing any further

      A sure sign of an internet juvenile pushing a trolley of arrested development

      Were you attempting to be ironic?

      • One Two 7.2.1
        22 November 2016 at 11:37 pm

        Leaving aside you have replied to the wrong comment…

        Why are you here spouting nothing but vitriol to the same few commentators?

        Clearly you have an axe to grind, which given your comment would make you a hypocrite

        One of the very worst traits a human being can have!

      • Peter Swift 7.2.2
        22 November 2016 at 11:44 pm

        You can lick and slurp ’til your hearts content, but it doesn’t mean I’m not 100% spot on.
        All it really shows is your lips are accustomed to kissing that which I keep under wraps. 😀

    • gsays 7.3
      23 November 2016 at 7:46 am

      hi peter, unless i have missed something, i haven’t seen you author a post.
      do you do behind the scenes work?
      do you contribute meaningfully, beyond commenting?

      i get you may not like what cv posts, however that ain’t good enough for you to get your wish of a ban.

      offence is only ever offered, it is up to you to accept it or not.

      i am surprised that there wasn’t a big metaphorical uppercut coming at you, with telling the moderators what to do, how to run the site and attacking an author.

      perhaps we all follow recent urgings and be a little kinder to each other.

      • weka 7.3.1
        23 November 2016 at 10:50 am

        The irony there is that while CV himself has authored posts (and done that well in the not-recent past), this year he has been one of the biggest net drains on the site. Rather than helping do the behind the scenes work, he’s been on various crusades of his own making that have not only obviously disrupted the front end, but have resulted in people leaving, created a huge amount of stress for the other authors, and created a large amount of extra work for moderators (which equates to posts not written).

        As someone who writes posts, is active in the behind the scenes work and who has done the bulk of the moderating in the past month, I can state categorically that CV has a large negative influence on what happens here and that I am now at the point of seriously wondering wtf we are even doing here. More and more I see this as the point of what CV is doing.

        This is not about not ‘liking’ what someone posts. Nor is it about taking offence. It’s about to what degree a community or website remains viable in the presence of someone who is hellbent on ignoring the wellbeing of the place and instead is incessantly destructive. Here I am talking about behaviour, although obviously CV’s recent politics contribute to that. I’ve been in enough groups (online and offline) to recognise what is going on here, the dynamics at play, and it’s a cluster fuck. Yes, the site will carry on (unless Lynn gets sick of the drama and pulls the plug), but it won’t be the vibrant, intellectually stimulating, progressive place it could be. Worse, it may well end up contributing to the demise of the left.

        And yes, there is the huge problem of having had an author promote fascism on this site. Now that CV’s authoring rights have been dropped to Contributor (his posts will be vetted, but I don’t know by who), it leaves us with a complex problem in that people are actively avoiding the site because it is now perceived as supporting not robust debate but alt-right ideology, and see the same person is still spamming the site with his proto-fascist views. Why would progressives and lefties want to be here? Why would we want to write? Why would be try and get new authors or moderators?

        Look at how many posts going up at the moment are Notices and Features. Look at who is not writing. Look at which commenters are no longer here. What do you think is going to happen here next year in the lead up to the election? It’s a hard enough place to be at the best of times. Currently I see it as untenable for many, and while I will continue to be an author I am seriously considering whether there is any point in putting effort into the running of the site when at the same time it’s being destroyed. No single person is worth that.

        • joe90 7.3.1.2
          23 November 2016 at 11:15 am

          What marty said.

        • One Two 7.3.1.3
          24 November 2016 at 1:50 am

          Note: Response to Weka but is not aimed at you specifically where it could be read as such…this is a general observation sent to you as a moderator

          Without knowing the levels of awareness or content involved in backend conversation it’s not possible to gauge the veracity of your comment

          If the drip drip of perception forming tid bits is going to continue to filter into the front end then there is unlikely to be ‘improvement’ and will continue to read like personal vendettas all round

          I see no problem with CVs commentary, it is ‘no better or worse’ than any other here, yet in recent times has attracted a shameful amount of abuse from multiple handles, which have veered into negative relms far surpassing claims of CV being ‘responsible’ for degrading and denerating the site

          The forked tongues and hypocrisy have stooped to levels which should have been contained instead of tacitly encouraged and cheered on (by the general audience)

          Is there a way the back end opinions can be translated into appropriate front end response by way of enabling CV to share and clarify his position? I don’t see why he should need to, but as he has become such a ‘targetted focus’ on the blog, it seems like he should be given that option (if not already offered)

          There are only a small number of outcomes and solutions available, and the current approach is blatantly not working, because the drip drip is still active and the insults are still flying in a unilateral direction (overwhelmingly) by commentators

        • gsays 7.3.1.4
          24 November 2016 at 7:41 am

          hi weka, thanks for your considered response.

          like a few others here, i haven’t read anything too outrageous written by cv. sure i get that others have been mightily upset, i also think a lot of those were looking for upset.
          t.b.h. many times i read a lot of provocation, which i don’t think was meritted.

          in respect to front/back end goings-on, i have to plead ignorance and just once again thank-you for your labours.

          this ‘cv scenario’ typifies for me a big problem for the left.
          you and i, i assume, would stand shoulder to shoulder on many issues, however bring up cats and the protection of native birds, geckos, skinks etc and we would be on opposite sides of the battle lines.

          rather than focus on where we are divided, what are our common causes, how do we bring change?, when do we bring change?

          i enjoy having my beliefs, attitudes and opinions challenged, some of the rwnj can do this but not many.
          the bigger threat to this site is having a homogenised, centre-left only dialogue occuring.
          once again, thanks for your mahi, when not off grid, i am here most days.

      • weka 7.3.2
        23 November 2016 at 10:54 am

        “i am surprised that there wasn’t a big metaphorical uppercut coming at you, with telling the moderators what to do, how to run the site and attacking an author.”

        Two things. One is that most authors probably agree with Peter’s assessment. Certainly in the backend most authors see CV as a huge problem.

        Two, it’s fine to talk about the site and how people want it to be. Yes, there is a line re not telling authors what to do, or how the site should be run, but personally I welcome people talking about what the problems are, because that’s how we know.

        • Peter Swift 7.3.2.1
          23 November 2016 at 1:26 pm

          I agree with your assessment above and appreciate there are now many here with a finger on the pulse of the CV situation and what it could mean long term for the standard.

        • Anne 7.3.2.2
          23 November 2016 at 7:07 pm

          It saddens me to say it but here’s my penny’s worth:

          I have come to the conclusion that CV is deliberately trying to destroy this site. Once upon a time I held him in high regard but in recent times he has lost much of his credibility. A lot of regulars seem to have walked in the past six months or so, and it includes some of our best contributors. I refer to people like Pascal’s bookie, Felix, Gobsmacked and Puddleglum. BLiP is also conspicuous by his absence. It doesn’t follow they have all dropped out because of CV, but the very negative atmosphere that has been created is (imo) taking its toll.

          • Clump_AKA Sam 7.3.2.2.1
            23 November 2016 at 7:39 pm

            All this butt hurt is irrelevant because Trump fucken won. That means every one failed. Short term winners will be short bond sellers, medium term manufacturing, long term those that can dominate the content wars will be the owners of the new world.

            Thatcherism is official dead now that the 30 year bond which neoliberalism was financed on, has exploded.

            Keep up love. It’s a brave new world. The factories are coming

            • McFlock 7.3.2.2.1.1
              24 November 2016 at 11:50 am

              You do realise that your comment was completely irrelevant to what Anne actually wrote? Did you mean to reply to another comment, maybe?

              clue: the comment was about the the recent nature of TS (especially CV’s contributions) and the corresponding disappearance of long term contributors, and had nothing to do with trump.

              • Clump_AKA Sam …
                24 November 2016 at 12:05 pm

                The meme wars are over because trump won. Stop trying to breath life into a dead corps. Every one but the 50 million Americans got it all wrong, every ones well laid out globalism plans have been smashed. It’s no wonder people are hiding from this market, you just have to live and learn my boy

                • McFlock …
                  24 November 2016 at 12:21 pm

                  Go outside.
                  Look up.
                  If it’s a clear day, with very few clouds, you might see a small speck far up in the sky.
                  That’s the point going way over your head because you still seem to think the conversation is about Trump.

                  • Clump_AKA Sam …
                    24 November 2016 at 12:38 pm

                    Grow up boy

                    • McFlock …
                      24 November 2016 at 2:34 pm

                      plank from your own eye, and all that

                    • Clump_AKA Sam …
                      24 November 2016 at 4:04 pm

                      Back to the conversation. What Trump has done is pushed the left back over to the left. We use to say trade is bad, Trump literally destroyed the old rulz based idea of global trade. Another traditional left idea Trump took off the left is anti war, by anti war I mean anti Russian sentiment no longer exists. So the left is getting pushed over to issues of identity ie sexual behaviour, Trans/gay, workers rights as opposed to worker subsidies.

                      You just have to have a good honest look at the state of things my boy, rather than trying to deny the existance of trump.

  8. McFlock 8
    22 November 2016 at 11:40 pm

    lol

    It was worth a try, I suppose.

    I have a certain morbid fascination with just what depths CV will plumb – he’s currently writing off extrajudicial killings along the lines of some sort of cultural relativism, in a couple of years will he be excusing concentration camps or nuclear war?

    Lord, save us from everyone who thinks they receive personal messages from the universe…

    • Peter Swift 8.1
      22 November 2016 at 11:49 pm

      He’s a gone burger. A flame grilled whopper with extra cheese. Tasty, but full of nasty sh1t hidden on the inside.
      When the pickle is the sweetener, it shows how bad it’s got.

      A Muck nasty with sweet and sour sauce, hold the sweet. lol

      • Colonial Viper 8.1.1
        23 November 2016 at 12:10 am

        Personal attacks disguised as humour?

        Really?

        Is that the best you can muster now Peter Swift? Gawd I hope Labour has a better chance next year. But I don’t think so. 4 to 1 against, verging on a guaranteed GR2020.

        Intellectually moribund disguised as clever and witty. Just like you.

      • marty mars 8.1.2
        23 November 2016 at 5:58 am

        good one Peter – yep the mouthpiece is foul – needs a bloody good rinse with disinfectant because, my gods, it is infected all right!

        But like that elusive last dag it might take a few passes of the comb to get it off.

    • ropata 8.2
      23 November 2016 at 5:41 pm

      I hope CV sticks around to keep things lively. He’s a lot smarter than the predictable RW trolls, I will go to sleep if this place becomes an echo chamber like TDB or boringly mediocre like PublicAddress

  9. Garibaldi 9
    23 November 2016 at 6:18 am

    Peter Swift – what do you want this site to be? An echo chamber for the neolib National lite Party? Surely we need the variety of ideas and opinions to flourish and not be stomped on? If you are going to ban CV why not ban the likes of Peter George and PR?

    • Peter Swift 9.1
      23 November 2016 at 6:55 am

      I don’t know if it’s deliberate, but you’re ignoring what’s being written. It’s a diversion tactic, but never mind, I have it covered.

      Simple reply is that it’s not about what I want the site to be, but rather what it already is. CV offers nothing with his contributions, unless getting a reaction is the goal, in which case my view of him being nothing more than a troll figure is accurate enough.

      I don’t take your point about echo chambers, especially about the neo lib lite party, especially when you’re supporting someone who is self proclaimed non left, so don’t make me laugh, slogan boy.

      As for banning, the way I look at it is that it will happen sooner or later. There’s been enough negative examples to expose the trend. I say just bite the bullet and put us out of his misery.
      And the funny thing about your last point is that PR is much less offensive to read that [deleted] is, and when the right wing trolls make less of an impact than he does, it’s sort of highlighting the narrative for us all.

      [please don’t use someone’s RL name here if they themselves don’t. That’s a general principle designed to protect us all. If you have instances of behaviour or posts that definitely need a moderator’s attention, drop a note in front of an author/moderator. thanks – weka]

      • Garibaldi 9.1.1
        23 November 2016 at 8:06 am

        Sorry, I disagree. The rightwing trolls are more of a problem here than CV .Sure CV has ramped things up a lot, but that is mainly because of deliberate baiting. He used to be a real breath of fresh air, however I take your point of him heading into a ban if he doesn’t cool it considerably. Thanks for replying Peter.

      • Peter Swift 9.1.2
        23 November 2016 at 1:09 pm

        @Weka I wouldn’t have used his name, wouldn’t have even known it, if he hadn’t have shared it with us all in the first place, but sure, I’ll put his genie back in the bottle and won’t ever do it again.

        [deleted]

        [he is posting under a pseudonym and that needs to be respected, not least because none of us can know the reasons for that at any given time – some pseudonyms aren’t absolutely private, but people still have a right to them. Otherwise anyone with a pseudonym becomes fair game. This isn’t about CV, it’s about the general principle as I already said. – weka]

        • In Vino 9.1.2.1
          23 November 2016 at 6:48 pm

          Peter Swift – you apparently cannot stomach anything written by Chris Trotter, and now CV is in the same category? What is it about your nature that makes it so Stalinist?
          I agree with Garibaldi that PR, Chuck, James, etc are a far worse distraction to debate on this site.

          • Peter Swift 9.1.2.1.1
            23 November 2016 at 7:05 pm

            What’s that about Trotter? That’s not an opinion I’ve expressed, though of course, like most pundits, he’s written his fair share of sh1t.

            And I wouldn’t put CV anywhere close to Trotters level of integrity and professionalism.

            • In Vino 9.1.2.1.1.1
              23 November 2016 at 8:58 pm

              Just about any time Trotter posts on Daily Blog, you take to him with a cleaver. Not here on the Standard – but you have impressed me as a Lefty with a mind so narrow it could pass through the eye of a needle.
              (You may make it to heaven!)

              • Peter Swift …
                23 November 2016 at 9:32 pm

                I request you link to those cleaver comments please. I’ve made less that a handful of comments there over the years, and from memory, none about Trotter and more importantly none under this handle.

                Shouldn’t be as hard to do as the apology I’m expecting you’ll have to make.

                • In Vino …
                  23 November 2016 at 11:26 pm

                  You are right- on checking those TDB posts, I find that the guy I objected to was a Peter Wheeler, not you at all. Apology freely given – I must make doubly sure about surnames in future. This may increase your chances of getting to heaven..

                  • Peter Swift …
                    23 November 2016 at 11:29 pm

                    I imagined there was no heaven. It’s easy if you try.
                    Apology accepted with almost 100% good grace. :polished halo:

        • Peter Swift 9.1.2.2
          23 November 2016 at 7:08 pm

          First time I’ve seen a link to an actual ‘The Standard’ topic censored. Interesting times.

          • weka 9.1.2.2.1
            24 November 2016 at 12:47 am

            I’m sure you can figure out why it was deleted.

            • Peter Swift 9.1.2.2.1.1
              24 November 2016 at 12:52 am

              Well yeah, obviously, but even so, it’s in the standard archive and all. It’s hardly a a secret, especially when posted by the person in question in the first place.
              But I’m not questioning the ruling. Voldermort it is from now on. lol

  10. James 10
    23 November 2016 at 8:33 am

    Yes God forbid people post something peter swift disagrees with. All deserting post and comments must be purged to make the standard a safe place for him.

    With that or ban every other person.

    Really there is no possible option that you just ignore what you don’t like? Or perhaps attack his argument as opposed to the person.

    Also – isn’t there some rule about naming people on this blog – I understand he is known by many – but is it right to put his name into this ??

    • ropata 10.1
      23 November 2016 at 5:45 pm

      Hell’s bells, James wrote a comment I agree with!
      Something weird is going on around here…

    • Chris 10.2
      23 November 2016 at 6:39 pm

      You gotta admire the guy’s use of adjectives. Think he must’ve just started a creative writing course, or perhaps he’s just finished one. Either way it’s pretty damn funny.

    • Peter Swift 10.3
      23 November 2016 at 7:29 pm

      What’s with you three monkeys? Up thread you have a moderator clearly outlining the present troubles on this site, writing about boycotts, contributors not submitting topics and you post like the stereotypical don’t see, hear or speak trio. And I’m having my capabilities questioned 🙄

      We’re so lucky to have such astute chumps like you around to save the day lol

      • ropata 10.3.1
        24 November 2016 at 12:07 pm

        is CV really as annoying / destructive to this community as someone like the despicable dirty politics merchant Matthew Hooten? Or a boring threadjacker like Pete George?

        CV obviously has issues with the current form of the political Left, his criticism can be cutting, but I haven’t seen him personally attack anyone, or indulge in Hooten like trolling.

        • peter Swift 10.3.1.1
          24 November 2016 at 12:35 pm

          Yes, he’s quite the spoiler, and by the looks of it, an increasing number of people view him not only as an agenda driven malcontent on a revenge mission, but a genuine threat to the long term well being and effectiveness of the standard.

          That makes him much worse than a tory tool and a silly old man.

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