Discussion on political leader PR.

66 comments on “Discussion on political leader PR. ”

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1. Siobhan 1

   1 January 2019 at 2:07 pm

   …it’s now 2:06 pm, Its really nice weather outside, or if you’re trying to avoid the midday sun can I recommend the new Netflix documentary Struggle, about talented but obscure Polish artist Stanislaw Szukalski (really, its fascinating, hilarious and tragic, with some interesting and very timely political angles)….or maybe go fishing or something… the concerned nurturing mothering streak in me just feels you need to all get out of this loop..
   • veutoviper 1.1

     1 January 2019 at 3:52 pm

     Do you post at the beige blog?

     There is some-one who has turned up there recently calling themselves “Mother”.
   • lprent 1.2

     1 January 2019 at 3:53 pm

     After the year I have had with spending 5 months in sunny Singapore working long hours and with my main entertainment (as I crashed in the evenings) being the idiot box, the last thing I want to do is to go out in the sun or to watch more TV.

     Had a bike ride, seem to have recovered from last nights wine and the rather pathetic fireworks off the sky tower and have exercised the kitten back to sleepy exhaustion. Relaxing writing site upgrades and talking local politics seems like a damn good idea.

     This is me getting out of my loop.
2. ropata 2

   1 January 2019 at 2:50 pm

   Saccharine PR puff pieces are part of the job in politics. PG fails as usual to make any substantive comments on policy, to him politeness, superficiality, and PR is most important.

   Pete George is a tedious old coot obsessed with trivia. Seems to have forgotten the most PR driven leader in living memory was Teflon John Key, over whom the NZ herald published 2 or 3 drooling accolades per day

   Criticise the Government on what they have actually delivered, who gives a flying f*ck about the number of articles Womens’ Day is churning out.
   • greywarshark 2.1

     3 January 2019 at 12:51 pm

     ropata
     I have missed reading you recently so am glad to happen on this comment.
     And I think you are so right in what you say.

     What i feel is that one has to take a surgical knife to the ‘matter’ that gets presented by the PR machines and see if there is a nugget of useful information there, or an indication of one. Could we have some links to academics here in NZ who teach critical thinking methods which we can use in scanning the bumf? Or links to the subject on youtube?

     This is a brief explanation on google:
     It can lead to developing your judgement, evaluation and problem solving abilities. Learning Critical Thinking skills can also enhance your academic performance. … Today one of the most important criteria for success in College is the ability to think independently while being logical at the same time.Jan 27, 2015

     And though it says college, implying young people, I consider that there is so much going on, with such ramifications, all the time, that we need to refresh our thinking systems and knowledge to cope.
3. Philj 3

   1 January 2019 at 3:03 pm

   Got as far as mention of PG and I bailed….. Infinite time. …finite lifespan.
   • lprent 3.1

     1 January 2019 at 3:48 pm

     Might pay to force yourself to just get past the whole PG thing and read the whole post. While VV responded to PG, VV was critically analysing what PG actually said and responding to it with some real examples to counter his erroneous assertions.
4. Chris T 4

   1 January 2019 at 3:20 pm

   Political leaders using media, some are better than others.

   Who would have thought
5. Sacha 5

   1 January 2019 at 3:25 pm

   All this shows is that National’s comms people are still more effective than their Labour and Green equivalents at working the media. Sadly that has not changed since before the election and it is a major failure of judgement and leadership.

   If this government continues to not communicate its plans and achievements properly we will instead get acres of media about how they do not have any, stoked by the righties and useful idiots who mistake volume for wisdom. That is just politics as usual.
6. fender 6

   1 January 2019 at 5:04 pm

   “….and if Jemima continues to enjoy interacting with people from all walks of life, she might be the one to go after a seat in Parliament!….”

   Sounds cute but I can’t imagine how they expect their one year old to be able to have any concept of differing walks of life.

   As for PG, I just wish he would be honest with himself, ffs, he’s no spring chicken.
   • Muttonbird 6.1

     1 January 2019 at 5:43 pm

     I’d like him to be honest, full stop.

     The man won’t admit his political compass, claiming studious neutrality when any observer at all will note he is heavily right wing. That’s fine, just admit it and stop pretending to be an impartial political ‘hobbyist’.

     Pete is Trump-like in his poor ownership of the intent of what he writes, blatantly denying the obvious when challenged. A lack of integrity defines the man and his blog.

     Some of his commenters are quite funny though, and at least he had the balls to thank them for keeping his drab forum afloat.
     • Pete George 6.1.1

       1 January 2019 at 6:06 pm

       “claiming studious neutrality”

       I don’t believe i have done anything like that.

       “any observer at all will note he is heavily right wing”

       That’s a stupidly inaccurate comment.

       It’s funny to see how flustered some people get about me. It’s more disturbing to see how people here just make things up repeatedly. I don’t know if it’s through ignorance or are blatant attempts to smear.

       With no substantiation of assertions I think it it pretty much amounts to lying. It looks like a form of dirty politics. It’s been happening here for a long time. I thought that things had improved here recently, but apparently not.

       This is why a reason why the Standard is not taken seriously as a political forum. Too much activist angst and arseholeness.

       There’s not much point in refuting all the bull in this one post and thread here given the probably reaction, so I might do a post on it.
7. Robert Guyton 7

   1 January 2019 at 5:46 pm

   Badger, badger, badger!
   
   • Anne 7.1

     1 January 2019 at 10:41 pm

     lol lol.

     Better than any written words.
8. Robert Guyton 8

   1 January 2019 at 5:53 pm

   “Do I detect a bit of snideness there?”
   Pete George, snide?
   Nooooooooooo!
   Muttonbird’s assessment is perfectly accurate.
   Ropata spices-up the old grey porridge with his, “Pete George is a tedious old coot obsessed with trivia.”
   Pete’ll be on soon to scold us for this “nasty wee pile on” – he’ll call it Dirty Politics and breathlessly claim it proves that Labour does it too!!!!
   • Sacha 8.1

     1 January 2019 at 6:04 pm

     Really does not bring out the best in some of us, does he.
     • Pete George 8.1.1

       1 January 2019 at 6:09 pm

       I agree. Why do you think that is?

       I’m just one person sometimes expressing my opinion and encouraging discussion and debate and information sharing without abuse. It’s kind of ironic that that is what some resort to, as if they see me as a political enemy that must be discredited and defeated at any cost.

       I think over-reactions and personal attacks reflect more on others than on me.
       • Sacha 8.1.1.1

         1 January 2019 at 6:21 pm

         I think we have already had this conversation. My belief is undiagnosed autism spectrum disorder affects your comprehension and conversational style and pushes buttons in others. Personally, I have adjusted my expectations accordingly and the world is a happier place.
         • Robert Guyton 8.1.1.1.1

           1 January 2019 at 6:27 pm

           Elegant.
           Earlier point taken also 🙂
         • Pete George 8.1.1.1.2

           1 January 2019 at 7:10 pm

           “My belief is undiagnosed autism spectrum disorder affects your comprehension and conversational style and pushes buttons in others.”

           That’s really quite funny Dr Sacha.

           You’re correct about one thing – “undiagnosed”.

           Why do you think this only really manifests itself here? And some people can have seemingly quite sane discussions with me elsewhere?
           • Sacha 8.1.1.1.2.1

             1 January 2019 at 7:21 pm

             Haven’t you been banned from most political blogs at least once?
             • Pete George …

               1 January 2019 at 9:20 pm

               No, but I guess it depends on what you call ‘most political blogs’.

               Haven’t you avoided answering my questions?
               • fender …

                 1 January 2019 at 10:04 pm

                 “Why do you think this only really manifests itself here?”

                 People can see through you and you have history here.

                 “And some people can have seemingly quite sane discussions with me elsewhere?”

                 Either they don’t know you well enough or they’re too polite to express their true sentiments. Or it could be you have too many conversations with your bathroom mirror, I think I hear it calling you now…
       • Psycho Milt 8.1.1.2

         2 January 2019 at 8:22 am

         I think over-reactions and personal attacks reflect more on others than on me.

         Unintentional humour is always the best kind.

         Psycho Milt: I’ll ignore your own bias leading you to refer to an “easy run and sometimes open lauding and PR promotion of Jacinda Ardern in the media,” terms I don’t recall you ever using about its treatment of John Key.

         Pete George: A stupid comment from you.

         One of those comments is “encouraging discussion and debate,” and one is “over-reactions and personal attacks.” Can you spot which one is which, Pete?
     • Muttonbird 8.1.2

       1 January 2019 at 7:38 pm

       Eh? My writing’s never been better, thanks.
9. BM 9

   1 January 2019 at 7:17 pm

   Pete, you do good work, your blog is probably the best political blog in NZ currently, kudos to you.

   Ignore Guyton, he’s [deleted].

   [Oh, well done. First ban of the year and we’re only 19 hours in. 1st Feb, BM and don’t advocate violence here again. TRP]
   • Muttonbird 9.1

     1 January 2019 at 7:40 pm

     Lol. Angry rage bear stumbles and falls on the first day of the year. 😂
     • greywarshark 9.1.1

       3 January 2019 at 12:56 pm

       BM
       Kiss, kiss, watch your target!
   • fender 9.2

     1 January 2019 at 9:57 pm

     I doubt even you believe the probably bit, liar.

     Robert is one of the nicest guys you’ll never meet, give yourself those uppercuts,thug.
10. peterlepaysan 10

    1 January 2019 at 11:05 pm

    Well, was this not a happy new year start?

    PG can get every one going, he is like that.

    His reference to Ardern was, intentionally, provocative.
    PG is a bored retiree, he needs to get a life, (like a few other posters on this site.)
    • Pete George 10.1

      2 January 2019 at 5:25 am

      More made up assertions based on no evidence. I’m not bored (far from it), nor am I a retiree.

      “PG can get every one going, he is like that.”

      Yes, I have this amazing ability to force every one to get going and to make things up.
      • RedLogix 10.1.1

        2 January 2019 at 7:40 am

        Well because while it’s easy and fun to demonise nazis; the moderate reasonable right is more threatening to deal with.

        I don’t agree with you at most points but at least there is potentially an interesting conversation to be had. Yet I’m constantly disappointed at how little intellectual effort many people will make, lazily falling back on tired tropes and personal attacks.

        It’s their daily dopamine hit I guess.

        But perhaps one suggestion; your writing style is often passive voiced ‘egg-shell’ walking; and this comes across as disingenuous or devious, when I’m willing to credit your intentions as better than this.
        • Robert Guyton 10.1.1.1

          2 January 2019 at 7:51 am

          The “reasonable right”, exemplified by say, Bill English, RedLogix?
          The reasonableness is an issue only on one level and can be revealed for what it really is, by applying non-conventional methods, such as lampooning and gentle mockery; teasing even. That’s the Achilles heel of such practitioners. Of course, that leaves the teaser open to criticisms of pettiness or childishness, but the Emperor-who-wanted-clothed provided us with a story about how that can result.
          • RedLogix 10.1.1.1.1

            2 January 2019 at 8:13 am

            I get to define my political allegiance thank you Robert. I’m firmly moderate left.
            • Robert Guyton 10.1.1.1.1.1

              2 January 2019 at 8:44 am

              RedLogix – you do indeed, get to identify your political allegiance! I can’t work out how you might have thought I’d done that for you – it must be one of those misunderstandings-things that happen on blogs. I only identified Bill English in my comment. I was responding to your 7:40am comment, RedLogix.
              • Pete George …

                2 January 2019 at 9:10 am

                “RedLogix – you do indeed, get to identify your political allegiance!”

                Different rules? You’ve labelled your perception of my political allegiance often. I usually just put it down to ignorance or an attempt to push buttons.
                • Robert Guyton …

                  2 January 2019 at 9:31 am

                  You are welcome to identify your political allegiance too, Pete George. Can you share with us the category your blog was assigned recently, in the overview of NZ blogs?
              • greywarshark …

                2 January 2019 at 9:19 am

                Red Logix
                Well because while it’s easy and fun to demonise nazis; the moderate reasonable right is more threatening to deal with.

                I took that to mean that the ‘moderate reasonable right’ is more threatening than far-right nazis, because in contrast with them the moderates seem respectable and their arguments seem adequate. They then aren’t inspected and critiqued thoroughly and can get away with seriously bad policies that aren’t recognised as such till Too Late.
                • patricia bremner …

                  3 January 2019 at 11:35 pm

                  Yes just so. They clothe their nastiness so reasonably it feels churlish to object. Of course we are then childish and ‘making things up’.
              • RedLogix …

                2 January 2019 at 9:49 am

                Fair cop … I must stop using my phone to blog with. I’m a very fast reader normally and this has led to trouble in the past, but on a tiny phone screen I just misinterpret things far too often.
                • Robert Guyton …

                  2 January 2019 at 9:50 am

                  No worries.
        • Pete George 10.1.1.2

          2 January 2019 at 8:16 am

          And the ‘ the moderate reasonable left”, and the “moderate reasonable non-aligned”.

          Right (and left) labelling is often inaccurate and often nothing more than an attempt at putting someone down or discrediting their political views or even just their opinion.

          The intolerance of differences is a major reason why use of social media has trashed it’s potential and worked against a revolution in how we do democracy and debate.

          I would have liked to see leadership from the major political blogs, but Kiwiblog and The Standard forums seem to keep fomenting dirty mischief. I thought there were signs of this changing here, but it appears not.

          It seems that many political blog participants are stuck in a rut of ‘make, lazily falling back on tired tropes and personal attacks’. Also common on Twitter and Facebook and Reddit and elsewhere.

          Social media has been a great opportunity too often self trashed.
      • woodart 10.1.2

        2 January 2019 at 5:05 pm

        well Ive never heard of you, but seeing that you were up, posting at 5.25 a.m.. either you are a shift-worker, or you need to get a life……….
11. Frankie and Benjie 11

    2 January 2019 at 7:49 am

    The media are easier to spin left or right if they are already biased one way or another.
    Stuuf (oops a typo but as I’m spinnin too …) have rated themselves on their 2018 predictions.

    So how did we do? We scored 90/200, our worst score ever. Blame it on the fact that it’s a new government after nine years of getting to know National’s moves.

    But we’ve had a year of Labour, NZ First and the Greens now and we expect to do better next year. So tune in for our predictions for 2019 tomorrow.

    Their 2019 predictions may show if they will be easier to spin left or right.
    I don’t think it was just getting to know Nationals moves, I think they liked them. They clearly don’t know the Greens.
    • greywarshark 11.1

      2 January 2019 at 9:21 am

      Perhaps they haven’t yet formed a good leaker-bond with someone in the know about the Greens.
12. Psycho Milt 12

    2 January 2019 at 8:46 am

    What does concern me is the continuing judgemental focus by the misogynist fools who seem to have different standards for female politicians compared to the male ones.

    I think there is a strong element of that – Ardern is seen as a shallow girl (at 38 years old?) who’s not very bright and is out of her depth as Prime Minister, while Bridges is seen as a smart, capable, mature family man (never “boy,” despite being only 4 years older than Ardern), well able to run a country. I can’t picture any objective observer reaching that conclusion.

    But there’s also an underlying die-hard conservative element pushing the meme of Ardern valuing her family only as PR material. I doubt Pete George falls into this category, but as someone who enjoys mud-wrestling with the gimps in Kiwiblog comments threads, I’ve seen plenty of it. In that world, Ardern doesn’t actually have a family because she and Gayford aren’t married. Gayford is a dodgy character with a promiscuous (I assume there’s a bit of sexual envy involved there) and drug-filled history who must constantly live in fear of the cops fingering him for his past crimes that the gimps invent and gossip to each other about. It’s also possible his name’s a bit of a giveaway and it’s a marriage of convenience (I think this is from people who never got over the trauma caused them by seeing Helen Clark running the country). Neve Ardern Gayford is of course a bastard, sometimes hilariously referred to as the First Bastard, again because her parents aren’t married. It’s like the 1950s got itself a blog.

    Given that level of hostility to the modern world, it’s unsurprising that any coverage of Ardern’s family attracts howls of outrage from them. You’d think Pete George would know better than to align himself with it, though.
    • Pete George 12.1

      2 January 2019 at 9:07 am

      I don’t align myself with commenters at Kiwiblog. I have moderated out at YNZ attempts to repeat comments like examples you have given here.

      Mentioning that Ardern (or any leader) uses PR (they all do) does not align one with the worst abuse at KB (or here). You’ve repeated things from KB here, but I presume you don’t align with those assertions.

      Putting a new year tweet from Bridges in a New year post does not align me with Bridges as claimed in this post. I frequently put tweets in comments that don’t align me with the tweet content or the tweeter. Trump for example. They are designed to encourage discussion.

      I posted about the Queens Christmas message, that doesn’t align me with the monarchy. I posted the Governor general’s new year message, that doesn’t align me with the monarchy. I’d love us to ditch the monarchy. But these were topical stories that I thought some people might be interested in commenting on.

      Back to bridges – I have been largely critical of him for months. I think he is failing as a major party leader. Of coyurse he tries to use PR as much as he can – but the media are less receptive to him. That’s not uncommon when in Opposition, but media are increasingly writing off Bridges.

      veutoviper:

      people claim that Ardern is the big PR manipulator of the media.

      Bridges does it too – and IMHO is much more blatant at exposing his family and their life in this way.

      I think that’s debatable, but debate often takes a poor second place to berate here.
      • Robert Guyton 12.1.1

        2 January 2019 at 9:13 am

        “your writing style is often passive voiced ‘egg-shell’ walking; and this comes across as disingenuous or devious,”
        QFT.
      • Psycho Milt 12.1.2

        2 January 2019 at 10:46 am

        I don’t align myself with commenters at Kiwiblog.

        Sure. but your belief that the media give Ardern an unusually easy time and deliberately promote her aligns perfectly with theirs, which is what I was referring to.

        I think that’s debatable.

        So you’ve retreated from Ardern being deliberately promoted by the media to a fallback position of Bridges not being significantly more promoted than Ardern, without the slightest recognition that position effectively accepts the conclusion of Veutoviper’s post.
        • Pete George 12.1.2.1

          4 January 2019 at 6:09 pm

          “your belief that the media give Ardern an unusually easy time and deliberately promote her”

          I haven’t said that, you’ve made it up.

          “So you’ve retreated from Ardern being deliberately promoted by the media ”

          Again i haven’t said that, you’ve made it up, that I haven’t retreated anywhere.
          • Robert Guyton 12.1.2.1.1

            4 January 2019 at 6:19 pm

            ” I haven’t retreated anywhere”
            QFT
          • Muttonbird 12.1.2.1.2

            4 January 2019 at 6:37 pm

            “Your belief that the media give Ardern an unusually easy time and deliberately promote her”

            I haven’t said that, you’ve made it up.

            I’m sorry, but you have said that. This is why people give you a hard time. You claim you haven’t said something when you clearly have. This isn’t the route to the ‘civilised discussion’ which you crave.
    • RedLogix 12.2

      2 January 2019 at 9:51 am

      It’s like the 1950s got itself a blog.

      LOL .. it’s really good to have you back.

      Interestingly I was watching an Australian TV channel at breakfast this morning that ran a five minute montage of scenes from 2018, both dreadful and inspiring … and included was a great clip of Jacinda with baby, looking very happy and strong.
13. reason 13

    2 January 2019 at 10:25 am

    A very good poster here at The Standard ….. Rosemary M …. gave me some balance and reassurance …. that there are good honest reporters working in our news media … a fact that gets somewhat buried by the blatant right wing editorial bias.

    A good example of this is the myth / fraud that “Key-pledges-PMs-salary-to-charity”
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/573560/Key-pledges-PMs-salary-to-charity

    The reporter who wrote and filed the story was actually quite factual …..providing information that …. ” National Party leader John Key has vowed to donate “a good part” of his government pay to charity should he be New Zealand’s next Prime Minister.” ……..

    “Key wouldn’t elaborate on what charities he supported, nor how large a portion of his salary he donated. He said his “personal decision” was not something he wanted publicised.”

    “Greens co-leader Jeanette Fitzsimmons said Key was one of many MPs who donated a percentage of their government salary to charity.

    “It’s good, but I don’t think it’s something that should be made into a song and dance. I know quite a few MPs, including me, who make a lot of donations to charity,” she said.”

    But the good reporting is undone…. by the editorial choice for a misleading pro-national headline ,,,,,,,,,,, ” Key pledges PM’s salary to charity ” .

    The right-wing bias was still on show after the Nats lost the last election …. with the media going along with their first past the post spin … that the largest minority somehow won and were ripped off by those losers who formed a majority .

    The media colluded and was involved with Dirty Politics ,,,,, The witch hunting Meth ‘contamination’ fraud …. and the sort of racism that National pushes for political ends…

    Jacinda Ardern needs to cultivate ties with good jornos while the media relationship is positive …..

    Eventually The right wing snakes will start hissing their spin and lies at her and labour with increased venom

    Dirty politrics Mrk 2 , 3 & 4 will be coming her way …. the rat fuckers have taken over the garbage barge called the national party ……….. and its just in their nature.
    • Sacha 13.1

      2 January 2019 at 11:02 am

      “Jacinda Ardern needs to cultivate ties with good journos”

      It is her comms team’s job to make that happen.
14. Robert Guyton 14

    2 January 2019 at 11:11 am

    Rawsharkosaurus has previously driven the final nail into the PG coffin:

    http://wondermark.com/c/2014-09-19-1062sea.png
    https://thestandard.org.nz/april-fool-pete-george-released-from-a-ban/#comment-994523
    (But Pete wasn’t quite dead).
    • Sacha 14.1

      2 January 2019 at 11:13 am

      We shall resume in an hour.
      • Robert Guyton 14.1.1

        2 January 2019 at 11:16 am

        🙂
15. Jum 15

    2 January 2019 at 12:43 pm

    We forget the continuing influence NZ Women’s Weekly has over so many New Zealanders, at our peril. The mag has a steady reading base, many that will read a newspaper, but not a blog, in many cases because they don’t use a computer.

    I was in a supermarket in 2008, and the woman in front of me turned the NZWW magazine over because it had a pic of Helen Clark on the front. I could see the anger on her face and her muttering she wouldn’t be buying that mag that week.

    How many of these tunnel-visioned readers are nats? I’m still trying to find a rational explanation for the continuing numbers supporting national. Perhaps that example above shows a complete lack of rational thinking or objectivity on the part of the average nat voter. Just blind obedience to the fount of their greed.
    • greywarshark 15.1

      2 January 2019 at 1:31 pm

      I suggest the thinking goes like this. It’s our side, combining against ‘those’ people with whom one does not care to mingle; they don’t follow the same pasttimes, don’t have the same amount of money, don’t dress right, and at the worst their bad attitudes have to be monitored and controlled to keep the country nice for us.
    • woodart 15.2

      3 January 2019 at 12:48 am

      they need something to believe in and hide behind. so much has changed in the last 50 years that conservatives are adrift. its the reason that life forms like trump can have a following. if you are an older white person looking out at a world that has moved on, any throwback will seem like an anchor…..
      • greywarshark 15.2.1

        3 January 2019 at 1:01 pm

        ‘life forms like Trump’ – what a good description. True to the core, and crushing at the same time.
        • Jum 15.2.1.1

          3 January 2019 at 2:42 pm

          Greywarshark and Woodart

          ‘if you are an older white person looking out at a world that has moved on, any throwback will seem like an anchor’ describes perfectly the ‘life forms like trump’ bill ralston (Listener 5 Jan) who is running his campaign to get rid of simon bridges and install the ‘True to the core, and crushing at the same time’ judith collins.

          That ‘side’ is terrified of the 90% galvanising. They don’t seem to realise that their party’s machiavellian machinations will lead to just that, if the backers continue to finance and corruptly engineer nats into government again.
          • greywarshark 15.2.1.1.1

            3 January 2019 at 3:06 pm

            So this is the latest bright idea of the media darlings. ‘Dahling, that’s soooo retro.’!
            • Jum 15.2.1.1.1.1

              3 January 2019 at 4:51 pm

              That’s bill, dahling.
16. Darien Fenton 16

    4 January 2019 at 8:29 am

    Look I don’t care if politicians have pics with their kids. They do have other lives after all. What I care about is the nasty, misogynist and “baby pimping” comments that appear whenever the slightest glimpse of Neve appears (which is rare). I would love to see more pics of her, but I totally respect the right of her parents to manage this. Simon Bridges, it seems, thinks it’s ok – and that’s his choice too. And as for Pete George. A generous comment would be God loves a trier.

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