Has Labour become a cadre Party? Pt 1 Leadership

18 comments on “Has Labour become a cadre Party? Pt 1 Leadership ”

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1. Tiger Mountain 1

   2 November 2023 at 5:49 pm

   I have never been an NZ Labour member but nonetheless have had a bit to say about the party over many years. I was actually invited in the early 80s to join the Auckland “Industrial Branch” of the LP by some impressive unionists of the time–but resisted and kept on my involvement with a marxist party.

   Labour loyalists often don’t like outsiders commenting, tough I say if we are part of the working class movement, and the fact is NZ Labour has long had the power hierarchy upside down. Fraser House, the Parliamentary Wing (Caucus & MPs) lording it over the ordinary members. And…the “captains call” what the? it amounts to a veto over even the cabinet, Chippys call torpedoed David Parker and Robbo’s wealth tax proposal which would highly likely have won the election for Labour given the IRD report showing the inequity of the tax system.

   A review of the 2023 debacle prior to a leadership choice sounds a sensible measure.
   • JC 1.1

     3 November 2023 at 11:54 am

     +100
2. Mike the Lefty 2

   2 November 2023 at 7:34 pm

   I think it would also be relevant to ask what kind of party Labour was in the three preceding decades. In the 1980s it became what we now know as the ACT Party, not because everyone wanted it way but that those with vested interests were clever enough to hide their true intentions until they could take power over the branches and voting processes.

   And that's what led to Labour's most shameful era – Rogernomics.

   Labour might like to forget all about it or pretend it doesn't really matter any more but in reality we are still living with the fallout.

   So it seems to me that Labour was a cadre party a lot earlier than that.

   I look forward to the next part in the continuing story of a party that has gone to the dogs. (paraphrase the Muppet Show).
3. mickysavage 3

   2 November 2023 at 8:20 pm

   Thanks Mike a good and brave post.

   In 2021 the good people of the New Lynn LEC put up an amendment to try and strengthen members' ability to have a say in who the leader was by tweaking the original proposal by increasing the threshold for the caucus veto to count.

   It was put up in good faith.

   I was amazed when Jacinda popped up first in the debate and spoke against it.

   My respect for her was diminished by this.

   The current mood amongst members is that there needs to be a deep review of what happened. Questions of who should be the leader should wait for that process to happen.

   MPs may choose otherwise but there will be a number of grumpy members if they do this.

   Out west good people threw themselves into the campaign. The result is not a judgment on them but a judgment on current leadership in the party.

   There needs to be a deep review. Then all of us, members, affiliates and MPs need to work out the future of our party.
   • Anne 3.1

     2 November 2023 at 9:08 pm

     A brief account of a conversation, in which I was a part, with a former senior Labour parliamentarian during the early 2000s: We were asking what kind of candidate does Labour prefer?

     The answer…" well, first of all you need to have a university degree or two."

     I had just rejoined the Labour Party after an absence of some 15 years and this was not the Labour Party I had previously known. Some specialist careers still required education and training not provided by the university curriculum at the time (which was certainly the case in my chosen area of work) and it also cut out those who had proven ability in other spheres of endeavour.

     It is a form of intellectual snobbery and I suspect a number of potentially very good MPs never made the grade due to this mindset within the party.
4. Ad 4

   2 November 2023 at 9:28 pm

   Looking forward to the next post Mike.

   Unfortunately The Standard may be the only remaining place we will see open loyal thoughtful critique of Party and Leader performance.

   Ardern was a Guy Fawkes rocket; enjoyed and forgotten. The purest Cadre product.

   I was shocked Hipkins ruled out NZFirst when it remains an anti-neoliberal party.

   Also shocked he never bothered to court TPM. Lazy, senseless inability to form government from the start of the election shows zero statesman-brain.

   But not shocked at how hard Hipkins ratfucked his own team from Mahuta to Robertson to Little to Parker. Hipkins is a value-free vindictive asshole of the lowest order. Proved it for years.

   He and King were responsible for the rise of Ardern and between them have brought us to a mess as bad as 2014. We may actually never recover from him.

   Push Hipkins out fast before he fully destroys this party.
   • JC 4.1

     3 November 2023 at 12:03 pm

     +100
   • Nick 4.2

     4 November 2023 at 7:10 pm

     Anti-Neoliberal – are they though? NZF website lists their economic management inspiration as the Irish Celtic Tiger and Singapore.
5. Dennis Frank 5

   3 November 2023 at 3:05 am

   Marketing itself as an alternative National party has been a flawed strategy from the start. Why would anyone buy the sham when they can vote for the real thing?

   They always seem like a bunch of people who haven't got a clue about what's going on in the world surrounding them. They just think "The Nats are so awful the people will vote for us next time." Time proves them right, which entrenches their belief.

   Terminal vacuity. Hipkins exemplifies that airhead thing. The polls had seemed to show that his staunch campaigning attitude was producing a dead cat bounce for Labour but election night showed the bounce wasn't actually there!

   Unless the specials validate the bounce scenario then Labour will have to face the fact that their campaign didn't impress anyone apart from the percentage who voted for them. Undecided floaters didn't buy Labour's message that incremental trickle down is what they're in it for and that's better than all other options.

   A true political leader tells it like it is: realism acknowledges common ground. Then you build your aspirational plan on that ground. Neoliberalism is a recipe for increasing inequality because capitalism is designed to minimise the number of winners according to the 19th century social darwinist prescription. An economic system that maximises the number of winners is the sensible alternative to this chronic recipe for failure that Labour remain addicted to. Clever people don't keep on doing something that doesn't work – they learn from their mistakes. I don't believe Labour is capable of learning the lesson of the failure of neoliberalism. Their drug controls them totally. Thick as pigshit.
6. Tricledrown 6

   3 November 2023 at 9:30 am

   Chippy is the best option going forward but he has to bring in competent loyal MPs and be brave with policy.
7. Reality 7

   3 November 2023 at 10:54 am

   Some interesting observations from commenters. Rather contradictory in some cases. As in highly critical of Chris Hipkins as having been a Parliamentary employee for many years, so not worthy, likewise Jacinda. No criticism now though of some very young new MPs newly elected who fall into that category. With Jacinda suddenly resigning there were not many options to take over who were well enough known or who had enough personality.

   The scrapping and complaining by some commenters will not heal the party, or enhance the party in the public's eyes. Loyalty and working together to do things better could be an option, for a change! Time to forget about the rogernomics era. Half the population probably weren't born then.
   • Obtrectator 7.1

     3 November 2023 at 1:24 pm

     "Time to forget about the rogernomics era …. "

     EH?? It's still going on!!
8. Corey 8

   3 November 2023 at 12:10 pm

   Yes it absolutely has and it's becoming worse and worse, don't you love how Ardern only used her political capital to kneecap the left?

   Whenever she went up in the polls, she would immediately rule out some sort of left wing policy or vision. Everytime.

   Then after 2020, she and her gang used her clout to to change the party rules to disempower the smelly membership, so that caucus would always be far more powerful than the grunts.

   The leadership election process was changed all so the Labour party would always be led by a third way robot who would always rule out any kind of wealth or capital gains tax.

   Labour is a party of academic robots shit scared of the people they are supposed to represent.

   Chris Hipkins should not be a leader long term as he has made too many captains calls ruling too many things out and during the rebuilding of Labour everything should be on the table.
   • That_guy 8.1

     5 November 2023 at 9:11 am

     I agree apart from the “long term” thing. “No wealth tax while I am leader” means chippy cannot be leader. That change will inevitably be a bit messy. Better to get the mess over and done with ASAP so Labour has at least two years to change course, clean out the dregs of Rogernomics and move forward as an actual left wing party.
9. Steve Bradley 9

   3 November 2023 at 2:00 pm

   Some commentators are justifiably bitter about our defeat. But the measure of a potentially good team is how sustainably can it rebuild a cooperative winning culture. This takes time and cannot be rushed.

   We have seen the breakdown of Cabinet collective responsibility. [Captain's Calls may be needed in an emergency; but the recent calls just created an emergency.] We have also seen the reduction in membership democratic debate. We've ended up with a party in which 'Daddy (or Mummy) knows best' and the elders have 'beans in their ears'. The proof is in the pudding – a complete disaster. The way back requires the reverse.

   I've been working on a slim paper to help my thinking forward in our up-coming review in our Hub area. It's a rough cut designed to provoke thought and debate. Here goes. {It's easy to say, not so easy to do}

   Renew the inner Party's democratic mandate and refresh the hegemonic vision*

   Convene as many small membership meetings as possible between now and later in 2024

   Avoid the side-shows of constitutional reforms and concentrate on building a cooperative culture

   From all the possible issues concentrate on the top 3-5 policy headlines of general impact

   The building blocks for campaigning to be put in place – membership detail update.

   Regional party bodies to convene meetings with sympathetic community allies to talk mutual priorities

   Recognition that Opposition frees up time for campaigning on issues of importance to our people

   Reaching out to Greens, Te Pati Maori /, and others seeking common ground on issues

   Set up Councils of Experts (cf. W.E.A.G.) to help build public consensus on responses to gnarly issues

   Party to set up systems for management of political responses and the people who will deliver

   We have to fully know ourselves before we can change the system

   *Hegemonic Vision Elements

   Universal Social Security — jobs, houses, welfare, health care, education & training

   Universal Social Justice — domestic historical reconciliation and repair, world peace & justice

   Universal Infrastructure — repair, rebuilding, restoration future-proofing both built and natural

   Cheers
10. That_guy 10

    5 November 2023 at 8:34 am

    For me it’s really simple.

    Resources must be devoted to the climate crisis and management of a just transition.

    Money is how we allocate resources and there is no time to develop an alternative way of allocating resources.

    Wealthy people have the money. That’s what that word means.

    Tax is how wealthy people like myself will allocate resources to the climate crisis at sufficient scale.

    Chippy has said “no wealth tax while I am leader”.

    Therefore he cannot be leader. I’ll consider voting for labour once he’s gone.
11. John 11

    5 November 2023 at 9:05 am

    Chippy can remain as interim Leader but must be replaced soon.

    The conundrum is reply by who?
    • Patricia Bremner 11.1

      5 November 2023 at 10:19 am

      Clearly by Robertson and Sepoloni.

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