Ihumaatao must be returned to mana whenua says Kiingitanga
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- Date published:
1:51 pm, September 18th, 2019 - 149 comments
Categories: Maori Issues, uncategorized -
Tags: Fletchers, Ihumātao, Kiingitanga
18 September 2019
Media release
Kiingi Tuuheitia Pootatau Te Wherowhero VII has successfully guided the mana whenua of lhumaatao to reach a consensus on the future of their whenua.
The King visited lhumaatao on Saturday 3rd August with a message of unity and peace and offered to facilitate discussions between mana whenua about the future development of the land.
The role of Kiingitanga was to provide the time and space for parties to talk freely and without duress, spokesperson Rahui Papa says.
“Although the land has remained occupied, mana whenua representatives have engaged in good faith discussions under the cloak of Kiingitanga and have reached a unified position on Ihumaatao.
“Mana whenua agree they want their land returned, so they can make decisions about its future.
“Mana whenua agreed the return of the land is outside of the Treaty of Waitangi settlement process and therefore requires an innovative and modern solution that does not financially disadvantage iwi.”
Kiingitanga acknowledges the Prime Minister’s early intervention in the dispute and the confirmation by Ministers and MPs that the views of mana whenua are key, as is a “by Maaori for Maaori” solution.
“It is important that the government prevents any further alienation of the people from their land, while discussions are underway.”
Kiingitanga has conveyed the views of mana whenua to the government and urged it to negotiate with Fletchers for the return of Ihumaatao to its rightful owners.
ends
via Scoop.
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- Release: Labour calls for New Zealand to recognise PalestineThe Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Three strikes law political posturing of worst kindThe Government is bringing back a law that has little evidential backing just to look tough, Labour justice spokesperson Duncan Webb said. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Government cuts unbelievably target child exploitation, violent extremism, ports and airpor...Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...2 weeks ago
- Three strikes has failed before and will fail againResurrecting the archaic three-strikes legislation is an unwelcome return to a failed American-style approach to justice. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Environmental protection vital, not ‘onerous’The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...2 weeks ago
- Ferris – Three Strikes targets those ‘too brown to be white’The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Govt cuts doctors and nurses in hiring freezeCuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...3 weeks ago
- Fast-track submissions period must be extendedThe Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...3 weeks ago
- Release: Progress on climate will be undone by GovtNew Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...3 weeks ago
- Decisions on Wellington City Council’s District Plan
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop, today released his decision on twenty recommendations referred to him by the Wellington City Council relating to its Intensification Planning Instrument, after the Council rejected those recommendations of the Independent Hearings Panel and made alternative recommendations. “Wellington notified its District Plan on ...1 hour ago - Rape Awareness Week: Government committed to action on sexual violenceRape Awareness Week (6-10 May) is an important opportunity to acknowledge the continued effort required by government and communities to ensure that all New Zealanders can live free from violence, say Ministers Karen Chhour and Louise Upston. “With 1 in 3 women and 1 in 8 men experiencing sexual violence ...2 hours ago
- Smarter lunch programme feeds more, costs lessAssociate Education Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government will be delivering a more efficient Healthy School Lunches Programme, saving taxpayers approximately $107 million a year compared to how Labour funded it, by embracing innovation and commercial expertise. “We are delivering on our commitment to treat taxpayers’ money ...3 hours ago
- Report provides insights into marine recoveryNew research on the impacts of extreme weather on coastal marine habitats in Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s Bay will help fishery managers plan for and respond to any future events, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. A report released today on research by Niwa on behalf of Fisheries New Zealand ...4 hours ago
- NZ to send political delegation to the PacificDeputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will lead a broad political delegation on a five-stop Pacific tour next week to strengthen New Zealand’s engagement with the region. The delegation will visit Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, and Tuvalu. “New Zealand has deep and ...5 hours ago
- Low gas production threatens energy securityThere has been a material decline in gas production according to figures released today by the Gas Industry Co. Figures released by the Gas Industry Company show that there was a 12.5 per cent reduction in gas production during 2023, and a 27.8 per cent reduction in gas production in the ...9 hours ago
- Defence industry talent, commitment recognisedDefence Minister Judith Collins tonight announced the recipients of the Minister of Defence Awards of Excellence for Industry, saying they all contribute to New Zealanders’ security and wellbeing. “Congratulations to this year’s recipients, whose innovative products and services play a critical role in the delivery of New Zealand’s defence capabilities, ...18 hours ago
- Speech to the Minister of Defence Awards of Excellence for IndustryWelcome to you all - it is a pleasure to be here this evening.I would like to start by thanking Greg Lowe, Chair of the New Zealand Defence Industry Advisory Council, for co-hosting this reception with me. This evening is about recognising businesses from across New Zealand and overseas who in ...18 hours ago
- Speech to the Sixth Annual New Zealand Government Data SummitIt is a pleasure to be speaking to you as the Minister for Digitising Government. I would like to thank Akolade for the invitation to address this Summit, and to acknowledge the great effort you are making to grow New Zealand’s digital future. Today, we stand at the cusp of ...19 hours ago
- Ceasefire agreement needed now: PetersNew Zealand is urging both Israel and Hamas to agree to an immediate ceasefire to avoid the further humanitarian catastrophe that military action in Rafah would unleash, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The immense suffering in Gaza cannot be allowed to worsen further. Both sides have a responsibility to ...1 day ago
- Daily school attendance data now availableA new online data dashboard released today as part of the Government’s school attendance action plan makes more timely daily attendance data available to the public and parents, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. The interactive dashboard will be updated once a week to show a national average of how ...1 day ago
- Ambassador to United States appointedForeign Minister Winston Peters has announced Rosemary Banks will be New Zealand’s next Ambassador to the United States of America. “Our relationship with the United States is crucial for New Zealand in strategic, security and economic terms,” Mr Peters says. “New Zealand and the United States have a ...1 day ago
- New permit proposed for recreational gold miningThe Government is considering creating a new tier of minerals permitting that will make it easier for hobby miners to prospect for gold. “New Zealand was built on gold, it’s in our DNA. Our gold deposits, particularly in regions such as Otago and the West Coast have always attracted fortune-hunters. ...1 day ago
- NZ and the UAE launch FTA negotiationsMinister for Trade Todd McClay today announced that New Zealand and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) will commence negotiations on a free trade agreement (FTA). Minister McClay met with his counterpart UAE Trade Minister Dr Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi in Dubai, where they announced the launch of negotiations on a ...1 day ago
- New Zealand Sign Language Week an opportunity for anyone to signNew Zealand Sign Language Week is an excellent opportunity for all Kiwis to give the language a go, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. This week (May 6 to 12) is New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL) Week. The theme is “an Aotearoa where anyone can sign anywhere” and aims to ...2 days ago
- Next stop NASA for New Zealand studentsSix tertiary students have been selected to work on NASA projects in the US through a New Zealand Space Scholarship, Space Minister Judith Collins announced today. “This is a fantastic opportunity for these talented students. They will undertake internships at NASA’s Ames Research Center or its Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), where ...2 days ago
- $1.9 billion investment to keep NZ safe from crimeNew Zealanders will be safer because of a $1.9 billion investment in more frontline Corrections officers, more support for offenders to turn away from crime, and more prison capacity, Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell says. “Our Government said we would crack down on crime. We promised to restore law and order, ...2 days ago
- OECD reinforces need to control spendingThe OECD’s latest report on New Zealand reinforces the importance of bringing Government spending under control, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The OECD conducts country surveys every two years to review its members’ economic policies. The 2024 New Zealand survey was presented in Wellington today by OECD Chief Economist Clare Lombardelli. ...2 days ago
- Agreement delivers Local Water Done Well for AucklandThe Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...3 days ago
- Gaza and the Pacific on the agenda with GermanyForeign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...4 days ago
- Decision allows for housing growth in Western Bay of PlentyThe Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...5 days ago
- Speech to New Zealand China CouncilThank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...5 days ago
- Modern insurance law will protect Kiwi householdsThe Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...6 days ago
- Government recommits to equal payThe coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...6 days ago
- Transforming how our children learn to readStructured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...6 days ago
- NZ not backing down in Canada dairy disputeTrade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...6 days ago
- Stronger oversight for our most vulnerable childrenThe rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...6 days ago
- Streamlining Building Consent ChangesThe Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...6 days ago
- Minister acknowledges passing of Sir Robert Martin (KNZM)New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...7 days ago
- Speech to New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Parliament – Annual Lecture: Challenges ...Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...7 days ago
- Accelerating airport security linesFrom today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...7 days ago
- Community hui to talk about kina barrensPeople with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...1 week ago
- Kiwi exporters win as NZ-EU FTA enters into forceKiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...1 week ago
- Mining resurgence a welcome signThere are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...1 week ago
- Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill passes first readingThe return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...1 week ago
- Government to boost public EV charging networkEnergy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...1 week ago
- Residential Property Managers Bill to not progressThe coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...1 week ago
- Independent review into disability support servicesThe Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...1 week ago
- Justice Minister updates UN on law & order planJustice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...1 week ago
- Ending emergency housing motels in RotoruaThe Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...1 week ago
- Bryce Edwards Analysis – Following the political money
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards – Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz) Political scientist, Dr Bryce Edwards. “Follow the money” is the classic directive to journalists trying to understand where power and influence lie in society. In terms of uncovering who influences various New Zealand political parties and governments, it therefore pays to ...2 hours ago - Free school lunches: Year 7 students and above to shift to alternative model
A new interim delivery model will kick in next year to allow time for a full redesign of the scheme before any more money is dedicated. ...2 hours ago - Rafah ‘last place of safety’ in Gaza, UN aid boss warnsRNZ News As Israel presses ahead with strikes in Rafah and seizing the Rafah crossing from Egypt, aid agencies are sounding the alarm of a “catastrophic humanitarian situation”. Rafah was “significant” because it was the only part in Gaza that had not been terribly damaged by the conflict, United Nations ...2 hours ago
- Foreign Affairs minister to lead Pacific delegationThe Foreign Affairs minister is heading on a five-stop Pacific tour, which he says will strengthen New Zealand's engagement in the region. ...2 hours ago
- Why we’re fighting to save Te Huia, the Hamilton-Auckland train
With funding set to be scrapped for the Hamilton-Auckland commuter train, Te Huia enthusiast Georgie Dansey argues for it to be thrown a lifeline. It’s 5.45am and the chain of my crappy old bike falls off slugging up the one hill in Hamilton. I contemplate yeeting the bike into the ...2 hours ago - Greens Call On Government To Keep Same-day Election Enrolment And Voting
On Radio New Zealand this morning, the Justice Minister stated the Government was considering ending election day enrolments. ...2 hours ago - Many people are feeling ecological grief. How can we help those whose work puts them at risk?Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anna Cooke, Honorary Fellow, School of the Environment, The University of Queensland We feel ecological grief when we lose places, species or ecosystems we value and love. These losses are a growing threat to mental health and wellbeing globally. We all see ...3 hours ago
- Revitalizing Toronto’s downtown core after COVID-19 greatly benefits the city and the regionSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Shauna Brail, Associate Professor, Institute for Management & Innovation, University of Toronto A shift to hybrid and remote work continues to affect worker presence in Toronto’s downtown. (Shutterstock) Downtown Toronto, the core of Canada’s largest city, continues to reel from the lingering ...3 hours ago
- Government quiet on costs, building plan for Waikato prison expansionThe extra beds would take longer than the four-years covered in this week's budget announcement to deliver, the Corrections Minister told RNZ. ...3 hours ago
- Chief Electoral Officer Needs To Fall On His SwordResponding to an Auditor-General's report slamming failures in the administration of the 2023 General Election, Taxpayers’ Union Policy and Public Affairs Manager, James Ross, said: ...4 hours ago
- How many productivity apps do I have to use to become more productive?Productivity apps now make up a big chunk of the software market. But do they work? And why do they all have AI integrations? Despite being firmly on the record as a physical planner fan, I sometimes dream of something better than my pretty diary and its scrawled, ugly, interior ...4 hours ago
- Government considers removing election day voter enrolmentJustice Minister Paul Goldsmith says very few countries allow it, and New Zealand should consider changing the rules. ...4 hours ago
- Beehive Need To Lead By ExampleThe Taxpayers’ Union says the Beehive need to lead by example, following reports of more than $50,000 spent upgrading video conferencing equipment and furniture in the Prime Minister’s office. Taxpayers’ Union Campaign Manager, Connor Molloy, ...5 hours ago
- The Spinoff Power List: 50 New Zealanders you need to knowAn objective list of the 50 most powerful people in New Zealand, as judged by the Spinoff Editorial Board. It’s power list season, baby, and we want in on the action. Sure, there’s the rich list and the powerful “c-suite” list and the young people with power (hmmm) but here, ...5 hours ago
- First Nations imprisonment is already at a record high. Unless government policy changes, it will on...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Thalia Anthony, Professor of Law, University of Technology Sydney Shutterstock This article contains information on deaths in custody and the names of deceased people, and describes ongoing colonial violence towards Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. First Nations people in Australia ...6 hours ago
- Martha isn’t Baby Reindeer’s biggest villain. So why is she painted as such?Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alex Simpson, Senior Lecturer in Criminology, Macquarie University Netflix Baby Reindeer’s phenomenal success has much to do with its writer and lead, Richard Gadd, who plays Donny in a tender semi-autobiographical account of sexual abuse, harassment and stalking. Gadd’s story has ...6 hours ago
- Yes, adults can develop food allergies. Here are 4 types you need to know aboutSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Collins, Laureate Professor in Nutrition and Dietetics, University of Newcastle KarolinaGrabowska/Pexels If you didn’t have food allergies as a child, is it possible to develop them as an adult? The short answer is yes. But the reasons why are much ...6 hours ago
- An outsider on the inside: how Ans Westra created New Zealand’s ‘national photo album’Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Paul Moon, Professor of History, Auckland University of Technology Ans Westra, self-portrait, c. 1963. National Library ref AWM-0705-F They try but invariably fail – those writers who believe they are capable of encapsulating in prose or verse the essence of ...7 hours ago
- How the lessons from Covid-19 could help us prepare for bird fluStewart Sowman-Lund looks at the growing concern around the world in this extract from The Bulletin. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. What’s all this? When Covid-19 arrived on our shores in early 2020, some argued we were too slow, or crucially, ill-prepared for a pandemic. So ...7 hours ago
- As climate change amplifies urban flooding, here’s how communities can become ‘sponge cities’Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Franco Montalto, Professor of Civil, Architectural and Environmental Engineering and Director, Sustainable Water Resource Engineering Laboratory, Drexel University Water runs into a storm drain in a Los Angeles alley on Aug. 19, 2023, during Tropical Storm Hilary. Citizen of the Planet/Universal Images ...8 hours ago
- Genesis Energy to fire up coal imports, citing increased demand, dwindling gas supplyGenesis Energy is to resume importing coal, as reduced gas supplies and increased demand add to the problems of keeping the lights on. ...8 hours ago
- The Boy in the Water: ‘Someone was struggling at a fence’
The inquest into the death of Gore toddler Lachlan Jones has turned up a new witness who says he saw two teenagers and a small child in a high vis vest in the area where the boy’s body was found the day he died. Lachie’s body was discovered face up ...8 hours ago - Te Pāti Māori comments: 'That kind of language isn't helpful'Political parties have roundly criticised Te Pāti Māori for using words like 'extermination' and 'white supremacy' in the House. ...9 hours ago
- Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey sought advice on ‘social impact bonds’ to fund servicesMinisters have sought advice on 'social impact bonds', which offer a potential return on private investment in public services. ...9 hours ago
- Managed retreat: How do we get out of the way of climate change?"Ad hoc" house buyouts after major disasters cannot continue, the Climate Change Minister says. ...9 hours ago
- Rules for property managers are scrapped. But what’s the worst that could happen?Stories from the tenancy trenches, featuring spider infestations, cupboard rats and same-sex discrimination. Lucy’s brother was living in a damp 1930s building in Mt Eden where “he had to tie the cupboard doors closed so the rats didn’t get in”. Although he shared custody of his six-year-old son, his property ...9 hours ago
- Explainer: What’s the deal with Auckland’s new water deal?Simeon Brown, Chris Luxon, and Wayne Brown climbed into a hole and announced a plan to solve Auckland’s water woes. This is how it’ll work. New Zealand’s pipes are munted. They’re cracked and leaking, and struggling to handle all the extra poos excreted by our rising population. It’s a big, ...9 hours ago
- Persistent Green Party scandals delay caucus resetAfter replacing a fifth of their caucus in just four months, the Greens’ opportunity to reset, reshuffle and refocus on the Government is quickly slipping away The post Persistent Green Party scandals delay caucus reset appeared first on Newsroom. ...9 hours ago
- Coutts’ call prompts urgent board meeting over SailGPDespite Sir Russell Coutts vowing SailGP wouldn’t return to Whakaraupō/Lyttelton Harbour, negotiations over 2025 are ongoing The post Coutts’ call prompts urgent board meeting over SailGP appeared first on Newsroom. ...9 hours ago
- Meet the man behind the Government’s education policyThe parallels between the Government’s education policy and those put forward by researcher Michael Johnston, is raising questions The post Meet the man behind the Government’s education policy appeared first on Newsroom. ...9 hours ago
- ‘We didn’t behave very well in NZ’, says Wakefield heirI knew Taika Waititi quite well when he was a kid. His mother lived in a tall narrow house in Aro St, and my youngest sister had a similar house two doors along. They were both single mums, they each had a son aged seven. Taika and my nephew Stepan ...9 hours ago
- Govt risks another Havelock North by undoing water protectionsOpinion: “As time passes, knowledge of the circumstances of the August 2016 outbreak will fade and its immediate impact will be lost.” This statement is from the 2017 report of the Official Inquiry into the Havelock North campylobacteriosis outbreak. The then National-led government established the inquiry after the outbreak left ...9 hours ago
- Where to next for the Aukus ruckus?Opinion: Nicholas Khoo looks at two key points in the high-stakes foreign policy pact debate – and asks if NZ can engage with as little drama as possible. The post Where to next for the Aukus ruckus? appeared first on Newsroom. ...9 hours ago
- Newsroom daily quiz, Wednesday 8 MayLoading…(function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){var ql=document.querySelectorAll('A,DIV,A[data-quiz],DIV[data-quiz]'); if(ql){if(ql.length){for(var k=0;k<ql.length;k++){ql[k].id='quiz-embed-'+k;ql[k].href="javascript:var i=document.getElementById('quiz-embed-"+k+"');try{qz.startQuiz(i)}catch(e){i.start=1;i.style.cursor='wait';i.style.opacity='0.5'};void(0);"}}};i['QP']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){(i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o),m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m)})(window,document,'script','https://take.quiz-maker.com/3012/CDN/quiz-embed-v1.js','qp'); Got a good quiz question? Send Newsroom your questions. The post Newsroom daily quiz, Wednesday 8 May appeared first on Newsroom. ...9 hours ago
- ‘Think fast and act slowly’ is failing big projectsOpinion: ‘Reference-class forecasting’ is at the heart of improving pricing a project and identifying the expected timeframe but it doesn’t appear to be in use here The post ‘Think fast and act slowly’ is failing big projects appeared first on Newsroom. ...9 hours ago
- A controversial driving exam – put to the testWhat do a sombrero in Argentina and cognitive driving tests have in common? Don’t worry, we’re not setting up a bad joke. Hinengaro Clinic dementia clinician Gregory Winkelman has the answer on today’s episode of The Detail. “We ask a patient’s spouse or son or daughter: If you went to ...9 hours ago
- A long road back to a very long jumpWellington long jumper Phoebe Edwards is back and she’s having fun again. Until this year, Edwards, a top athlete in her teens, had never competed as a senior athlete in New Zealand. In March, the 26-year-old won a national long jump title in a lifetime best of 6.28m after ...9 hours ago
- Daily crossword, Wednesday 8 MayThe post Daily crossword, Wednesday 8 May appeared first on Newsroom. ...9 hours ago
- From Gallipoli to Gaza: remembering the Anzacs not as a ‘coming of age’ tale but as a lesson for...ANALYSIS: By Olli Hellmann, University of Waikato When New Zealanders commemorate Anzac Day today on April 25, it’s not only to honour the soldiers who lost their lives in World War I and subsequent conflicts, but also to mark a defining event for national identity. The battle of Gallipoli against ...12 hours ago
- NZ local council calls for immediate ceasefire in Gaza as strikes hitBy Robin Martin, RNZ News reporter A New Zealand local authority, Whanganui District Council, has passed a motion calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, condemnation of all acts of violence and terror against civilians on both sides of the conflict and the immediate return of hostages. It comes as ...13 hours ago
- End this ‘cruel, barbaric use of force’ on Gaza – WILPF plea to NZAsia Pacific Report The Aotearoa chapter of the Women’s International league for Peace and Freedom (WILPF) has appealed to the New Zealand government to call out Israel over the “cruel and barbaric use of force” in Gaza and demand a permanent ceasefire. The league’s open letter was sent to Prime ...13 hours ago
- Albanese government to invest $566 million for ‘generational’ mapping to promote resource explor...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The Albanese government will invest $566 million over a decade on data, maps and other tools to promote exploration and development in Australia’s resources industry. The project will fund “the first comprehensive map of what’s ...14 hours ago
- Prison spending: Waikeria to have capacity for nearly 2000 bedsThe government has clarified just how many beds the Waikato prison will get after a series of maths gaffes - 455, 600, 810 or 1865? ...15 hours ago
- ‘Repair colonial violence’ and support Gaza ceasefire, say Otago academicsAsia Pacific Report Following an open letter by Auckland University academics speaking out in support of their students’ right to protest against the genocidal Israeli war on Gaza, a group of academics at Otago University have today also called on New Zealand academic institutions to “repair colonial violence” and end ...17 hours ago
- Expelling students for bad behaviour seems like the obvious solution, but is it really a good idea?Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Linda J. Graham, Professor and Director of the Centre for Inclusive Education, Queensland University of Technology Ryan Tauss/ Unsplash, CC BY Two male students have been expelled from a Melbourne private school for their involvement in a list ranking female students. ...18 hours ago
- Green MP Julie Anne Genter responds after behaviour in the House, florist's accusations"I can do better," she says, acknowledging the need to work on her de-escalation strategy. ...18 hours ago
- If the RBA’s right, interest rates may not fall for another year. Here’s why – and what it mea...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Martin, Visiting Fellow, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University The Reserve Bank is now assuming Australians will see no interest rate cuts this year – and quite possibly none before the next federal election, due next May. That’s ...18 hours ago
- ‘Eye watering’ spending, growing debt make up surprisingly generous Victorian state budgetSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Hayward, Emeritus Professor of Public Policy, RMIT University The Victorian budget offered more of the same on Tuesday, with the only change being how the budget papers were packaged. The usual shrink wrap was gone, hinting at savings in the pages ...18 hours ago
- Budgeting service cuts: 'It's like watching a train derail'With some services facing closure after missing out on the latest government funding, there are for some of NZ's most vulnerable. ...18 hours ago
- Coalition demands amendments to government’s deportation bill, as crucial High Court judgement set...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The Coalition is demanding extensive amendments to the government’s legislation targeting non-citizens who refuse to co-operate with their removal. In a dissenting report to the senate inquiry into the legislation, the Coalition says it ...19 hours ago
- MP's comments 'bang on' despite negative response from other parties – Te Pāti...Te Pāti Māori is standing by comments made by MP Mariameno Kapa-Kingi which other parties have called inflammatory and offensive. ...21 hours ago
- A story of trauma, hope and regaining control, Nayika: A Dancing Girl is soul-stirring dance theatreSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Vanita Yadav, Senior Research Fellow, Urban Transformations Research Centre, Western Sydney University Brett Boardman/Belvoir The complex and grappling issue of violence against women takes centre stage in the soul-stirring solo dance drama Nayika: A Dancing Girl. During a dinner conversation ...22 hours ago
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RNZ coverage https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/399023/mana-whenua-reach-decision-on-ihumatao-land
SOUL people speaking in video starts at 12 mins, including ideas on what could happen next.
How much are they proposing to pay for the land?
Or are they just going to be given it for nothing?
Have their stolen property returned, you mean? Can't see that flying with the general public.
It wasn't stolen. It was confiscated legally. Whether or not that was morally right is another matter. there was also a Treaty settlement that loss of land via this method was specifically designed to cater and which the Iwi in question was comfortable with.
So, it wasn’t legalised theft according to you? Do you think that concept even exists?
Foreshore and Seabed Act. The group with the biggest stick get to take what they want and determine what to call the taking.
That sounds a bit like Western democracy in action in the Third World 😉
Actually it sounds like a progressive taxation system.
Nice humour, but it appears that you have no shame Gossie. Not that you ever did..
"It was confiscated under the New Zealand Settlements Act, thus breaching the 1840 Treaty of Waitangi agreement."
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/395121/explainer-why-ihumatao-is-being-occupied-by-protectors
Confiscation was for rebelling, but,
"In 1927 a royal commission found that ‘a grave injustice was done’ to South Auckland Māori ‘by forcing them into the position of rebels and afterwards confiscating their lands’. In 1985 the Waitangi Tribunal concluded that ‘all sources agree that the Tainui people…never rebelled but were attacked by British troops in direct violation of Article II of the Treaty of Waitangi’"
https://thespinoff.co.nz/atea/27-07-2019/our-trail-of-tears-the-story-of-how-ihumatao-was-stolen/
That, and the Crown needing land to pay for the war, makes it look like stolen to me.
The Maori could have argued they weren't actually in rebellion in which case they could have got their land back via the court process. In fact why don't they try this?
The land was confiscated illegally, obviously. If the confiscations had been legal then there would have been no basis for settlements.
The fact that there IS a treaty settlement negotiation process rather than a court case shows the land WASN'T taken illegally.
Go and learn some history and don't be such a deadhead. The Crown invaded Waikato because Waikato Maori would not sell any more land. Both the invasion and the confiscations were illegal.
Wrong. The Crown invaded the Waikato because the Kingitanga movement regarded themselves as a separate sovereign authority to the Crown and the Crown deemed them a threat in that regard.
The invasion was not illegal nor was the confiscation. It may well have been unjust.
What makes you think it was legal?
The Kingitanga movement rejected the Sovereign authority of the British Crown over New Zealand. The Crown issued an ultimatum requesting all Maori between Auckland and the Waikato sign a pledge of allegiance to the Crown. The rejection of this caused the Crown to regard these Maori as being in rebellion to the authority of the Crown. As a result the land was invaded to enforce that authority. It is no different to what the British did in Scotland or Ireland in relation to rebellions. Unless you are trying to argue the fighting against Irish and Scottish rebels were also "illegal".
Te kawerau a maki they got what they could and it wasn't much is this being comfortable gosman cause i am uncomfortable but your comfortable of course you are, your comfortable with anything that doesn't give us Maori a leg up
Why do you assume that at all? I am happy with a Treaty settlement process where Iwi and the Crown come to a voluntary agreement to settle the grievances. The Crown is not forcing Iwi to settle. What I oppose is full and final settlements being changed to not full and final at a later date. That to me is the definition of not negotiating in good faith.
When full and final settlements were forced into the process, there was plenty of debate about how that wouldn't work. I remember people saying that the Treaty wouldn't be needed once all the settlements were done. This is a gross misunderstanding of what the Treaty is and what it means.
None of this is a surprise, so if we are talking about good faith and fairness, I can't see a good reason to assume full and final has meaning.
otoh, had Māori been full partners in the creation of processes that would address colonisation in ways that were also meaningful and just from Māori perspectives, then we might be in a completely different situation now. It's not too late, we still have an opportunity here to get this right. If Pākehā agree that the Treaty is a partnership between the Crown and Māori, then it behooves Pākehā to argue for the Crown to relate with Māori as actual partners.
Except we disagree with what partnership means.
I presume you take it to mean you have equal rights as the Crown and NZ has some sort of quasi joint sovereignty arrangement.
Where as I take it that Maori have a unique relationship with the Crown (but not as equals) where elements of the cultural identity and life are guaranteed to be protected by the Crown and Maori are to be included in any direct decisions impacting them as a group.
Like whether Ihumātao should have been made an SHA? Or sold to Fletchers for a housing development? Those two decisions impact on them as a group.
What partnership means needs to include Māori perspectives on that. Otherwise it's just the Crown dictating what it wants (which is largely what has happened). Hence situations like Ihumātao.
Private land being used in a legal commercial basis is not a matter of Iwi engagement.
The law of treaty settlements needs to stand. No privately held land can be considered. To waiver from this precedent at this late stage of proceedings would be inviting the devil to dance.
I know you don't think so but I think this site is important to your great great grandchildren. We just busted open the purse for Kate Sheppard's joint. I'm sure that you can appreciate that many NZers, of all complexions, can see merit in making these fields a park for us all to treasure and enjoy.
If Iwi did not agree with the Full and final settlement process then they should have stated so and not participated in the process at all.
what would have happened had they done that?
The same that happened to Nga Puhi
Have listen to the Q and A in the video, there's some ideas there on what could happen. The government, Auckland Council, and Fletchers all have money for instance.
eg AC has $1.8b for open space over the next decade. If they went 50/50 with the Crown, that's 1.5% of that part of AC's budget.
From the press release,
“Mana whenua agreed the return of the land is outside of the Treaty of Waitangi settlement process and therefore requires an innovative and modern solution that does not financially disadvantage iwi.”
Except that could still be regarded as being part of a Treaty settlement. Legally the Crown has to avoid that as it opens up a massive can of worms if it isn't.
In what way would that be part of a Treaty Settlement? My understanding is that the land is excluded from a treaty settlement because its in private ownership.
The issue is if the Government manages to give them money for the land other Iwi could challenge that as really being part of the Treaty process. Then there will likely be a court case to determine if it was or not.
Gosman
“Mana whenua agreed the return of the land is outside of the Treaty of Waitangi settlement process and therefore requires an innovative and modern solution that does not financially disadvantage iwi.”
It would seem that the mana whenua not only want the $40 million dollar parcel of land they also want iwi to be able to gain parity payments on their treaty of waitangi settlements. I have seen an article where this was guesstimated to be up to half a billion dollars.
I would rarely if ever find myself in agreement with you on any subject – guess this is a first.
The happiest people about this would be…../drumroll …. the National Party – a half billion dollar gift of bleeding raw meat to energise and renew their supporters for the 2020 election.
Meh I'm now going to start drinking heavily.
Yes ANY agreement on returning the land to the local Iwi will likely lead to other Iwi opening up court cases questioning whether that impacts their own settlement amounts with the Crown. Congrats Jacinda for being so "caring".
[Either you can choose to make a valuable contribution to the discussion or you can choose to troll about the PM’s involvement in today’s announcement by Kīngitanga. You choose, you accept the consequences – Incognito]
The "Congrats Jacinda for being so "caring"." is just silly Gosman nothing has been agreed by government yet. I personally think it reflects more on the "agreement" facilitated by Kiingi Tuuheitia Pootatau Te Wherowhero VII whereby Tainui would be looking reap 10 s of millions of $ in parity payment.
Its a tricky one.
Kawerau a maki previously had a full and final Treaty settlement that they signed
https://www.govt.nz/treaty-settlement-documents/te-kawerau-a-maki/te-kawerau-a-maki-deed-of-settlement-summary-22-feb-2014/
'The Te Kawerau a Maki Deed of Settlement is the final settlement of all historical Treaty of Waitangi claims of Te Kawerau a Maki resulting from acts or omissions by the Crown prior to 21 September 1992'
KAM had a signed agreement with Fletchers over the land development which involved return of about 20% of the land ( next to the mountain) and a process for access to some of the lower cost housing.
"About 30 per cent would be "affordable", including 40 homes (8 per cent) available to people who belong to the area's whakapapa. Fletcher Building said it would develop a pathway to ownership programme to help Māori into homes. This may involve a shared equity-type scheme,.."
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/114776601/ihumtao-heres-what-fletcher-buildings-480-home-development-would-look-like
'Innovative and Modern' doesnt really cover walking away from 2 previous signed agreements.
This sits outside of the treaty as it's private land. Kawerau a maki aren't the only iwi involved, and perhaps if their leadership hadn't been so arrogant as to stitch up a deal with Fletcher without consulting other lhumaatao iwi, then we would have had resolution much earlier.
If it sits outside of the Treaty then why are they asking gummint to pay for it? I'm OK with the Crown paying up but talking nonsense will no help things.
" Kawerau a maki aren't the only iwi involved, "
Thats not the case for the 'Fletchers block' , the manawhenua at 1840 is through the adjacent Oruarangi marae is Kawerau a Maki
Auckland especially iwi interests overlap everywhere thats why they are part of the Tamaki Makarau Collective Redress Deed of Settlement
See my Moderation note @ 3:26 PM.
No Barfly, Don't do that xx
Drinking never solved anything.
That is not quite true. Patricia. I have found that it emptied a number of half-fulled bottles, which were becoming problematic.
Do I have to put 'sarc' after that one?
Forgive me, but that drinking solves some kinds of problems is not altogether inconceivable.
The worms are already there.
One of the foundational principles of our legal system is that you cannot get good title from bad title. Nothing short of full restitution meets that standard.
They didnt have fee simple title but customary title – its a technicality. But its pointless raising that type of issue.
Plus the Treaty settlement extinguished all previous claims due to acts of confiscation by the Crown
"the Treaty settlement extinguished all previous claims"
Legally perhaps – the moral claim stands.
If that was the case why 'sign it all away'. They explained all the previous injustice at the Treaty hearings at that very Marae
Regarding Land Titles the current 'Torrens Type Titles didnt exist till after 1870, before that was the 'Deeds System'
https://www.linz.govt.nz/land/land-records/overview/record-types/types-land-records/deeds-and-deed-registers-indexes
Presumably those who signed thought they were being offered all they were going to get. A private entity might want them to sign, existing as they do for short term gain – but the Crown is obliged to work both in the long term best interests of citizens, and so as not to bring the legal system into disrepute – which the confiscations did.
You are going in circular arguments. No one disputes the confiscation in this case was wrong… and surely you cant dispute the Iwi signed a final and final settlement of all the governments wrongs before 1992.
The NZ government much more recently confiscated mineral resources under private citizens land.. at various times.
Gold and silver ( under royal perogative from 1568), petroleum from 1937, uranium from 1945 . Coal may belong to the Crown too in certain circumstances.
Once Fisheries were there for the taking ..no longer the case.
Water is a tricky one
I'm not going in circles at all.
As a private entity one may achieve an unjust outcome through law and count it good, but a government that pretends to be more than a band of brigands cannot. (ie not National)
A full and final settlement that is not just does not resolve an ancestral grievance, even were it honestly designed.
The law is a process to achieve just outcomes in accord with community values. Bureaucratic convenience devices like 'full & final' are not fit for resolving greater issues – they’re really to produce compromises when the limited ability of individuals to repay makes that necessary.
Thats what the Treaty settlement process was. Redress for past wrongs.
As far as the Crown goes, they dont 'act in a moral way' at all- it wasnt the case when an iwi which wasnt in rebellion had the land confiscated and it wasnt again in Christchurch when those who werent insured ( for the house ) only recieved half value of their property when it was declared unsellable being inside a Government declared red zone. ( Since fixed by the new Government) Being screwed over is a far more common Crown attitude mostly to 'save money'
Maybe there should be a $50 mill per year , every year fund for the Government to buy land for iwi which had a continuous connection to like at Ihumatao . And that land is important culturally.
And that isnt 'relativised' to other previous Treaty claims. But I cant see it getting through those sort of 'whatabout' roadblocks.
Yes that is why ALL Iwi signed Deeds of Settlement. Now they will know that is not the case if the Government caves in and buys the land
"Thats what the Treaty settlement process was. Redress for past wrongs."
Is that what it was? I thought it was a figleaf of propriety to get Maori 'elites' to endorse a neoliberal model. It came from the corrupt heart of Rogergnomics, so of course it created a festering canker of discontent that ultimately kept the Gnats in power a little down the road.
Parks and reserves capital spending over next 10 years is around $700 mill. Dont know how much they would have set aside for land purchases.
However the 'total amount' for Ihumatao is a fraction of the Americas Cup spending. ( Grrr)
On the other side , the Council does own
1) The Mountain and Stonefields at Ihumatao ( Its a major Park)
2) Large Block of land next to Fletchers at Corner of Ihumatao and Oruarangi Rds
For some reason the The Tupuna Maunga Authority for Auckland doesnt include Ihumatao mountain and Stonefields
The Americas Cup is the one that puts the whole thing in perspective for me. NZ really has some shocking values at times.
When asked about future development, the wahine (sorry I don't know her name) said,
"The land being returned is for us to determine what happens to it moving forward. What that looks like is up to us to determine, and that's still another step in the process and is a long way away. So what does development actually mean?
… we've never had the opportunity for ourselves to determine for ourselves what happens at Ihumātao, and that's what this has allowed to happen. Having land returned to mana whenua, allows mana whenua to determine the future of Ihumātao. It allows us to thrive and not just be in constant survival mode."
"There are layers of mana whenua here, I can't say who is and who isn't, I can say that we are"
Winston brings the cold water (scroll down): https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/399023/mana-whenua-reach-decision-on-ihumatao-land
And it looks like the SOUL spokesperson who Weka mentioned hearing was Qiane Matata-Sipu.
Winston is being pragmatic. I can recall former PM David Lange saying that under no circumstances would private land be up for negotiation. He was a pragmatist too.
[Fixed two typos in e-mail. Please be more careful]
Qiane is listed as a Spinoff author and of Te Wai-o-hua, Waikato-Tainui
https://thespinoff.co.nz/author/qiane-matata-sipu/
No mention of Kawerau a Maki
It's a first step in several years of processes.
In regards any payment for land, if foreign banks can magic money out of thin air, then so can the local council, the state or local banks.
If they have 'magic money' then why do they borrow from depositors, bond markets and so on.
https://www.interest.co.nz/bonds/101182/asb-borrows-nz600-million-through-five-year-bond-issue-will-pay-investors-interest-just
Is it magic money or the actual way banks make money , borrow short to lend long.
Fractional reserve banking.
When banks loan money on a 'promise to pay', not from cash in their vaults, it's like magic.
Loans arent 'promises' , the full amount is transferred into your account.
You maybe thinking of overdrafts where you might have a deal to go to a certain amount 'just in case'
Why would banks even bother with borrowing from individuals via 'deposits and term investments' PLUS borrowing from bond markets when they can 'magic the money'
ASB bank for 2018 had income from their lending of $4.1 bill and interest costs of $2.1 bill.
Deposits were $62 bill, other bonds borrowing was $20 bill
Like I said they borrow cheaper short-term – which costs them $2.1 bill and lend longer term at higher rates which gets them $4.1 bill.
Its called Banking. Explain how they pay interest of $2.1 bill to others when they can magic the money.
There is one institution in this position, the reserve bank (coupled with treasury) which is wholy part of the government. The difference with others you mention is they have creditors they don't themselves dictate to (eg Auckland council will come under scrutiny if it outspends what central government gives it and doesn't make it up in rates).
The main take away from the banks create money idea is that bank lending is not constrained by their access to bank reserves. This should imply that giving them more (or more liquid) reserves isn't going to spur bank lending or result in a pick up in inflation (and yes QE and similar central bank policies have performed in this way in practice).
Lol! You think the problem of money being used to buy this land and give it to Maori is to PRINT money do you? How about we just print a lot of billion dollar notes and give one to each Iwi in the country. That woukd solve everything.
why not! it worked for wall st
Do you really think it worked for Wall Street?
Of course it did. The failed bankers still got their bonus's!
Your comment makes little sense so i dont really know what your saying. All i am claiming is that the government could pay fletchers for the land and the sums are small enough you wont notice that occuring or be negatively effected by it. It will just happen same as other government spending occurs every day.
You can claim that there is money printing involved all you like but the main change is to some account entries inside the reserve banks computer systems causing this to occur.
There is a potentially HUGE implication if the Government decided to spend 40 million on returning this land to the local Iwi. If this came to fruition it would lead to the government having to shell out hundreds and possibly billions more dollars. Do you not know that?
You seem to be having a discussion with somebody who claimed the 40 million odd was the big problem here. That wasn't me.
And apparently there may be additional liabilities created somewhere between $200 and $9000000000? Which seems quite a broad estimate.
It'll be under water in 40 years.
This is a special place for all of us. Like a historic building we only get one chance to take care of these places. This is not a Maori land grab, it's a special spot for all of us.
Our early history should matter to all of us. If we agree that it does, save this place for all of us.
A comment from I forget whom, but it stayed with me, that Ihumaatoa is the Aotearoa Stonehenge.
It is . That part is already an Auckland park. The current land in dispute is mostly open paddocks
Maaori never went into those neighbouring 'paddocks' in 800 years. In fact they were the first to draw up the surveying lines I suppose…. It was their rubbish dump… etc, etc. Insert whatever white wash here.
The iwi used this block for growing wheat , cropping and cattle at the time of confiscation. Are you saying they werent capapble of using European farming practices?
Was reading the other day about the pre european growing of kumara,often inside walled gardens it involved single plant mounds, but indroduced varieties gave better yields and different methods.
It's not important because Maori ran cattle on the site.
It's important because we were living there in the 12th century.
So? Lots of parts of the World have been lived on for longer than that and people are allowed to do something with it. There is already a large part that is protected. Your whole argument about protecting the other areas is because someone lived on it a long time ago and that we can.
Have you ever been to Stonehenge? The protected area of standing stones is quite small and is surrounded by farmland.
Nek minit, 460 houses are built around Stonehenge.
Stonehenge isnt inside a major urban area. Britain has plenty of those historic sites which are inside cities as well.
The kingitangi statement yeasterday didnt rule out once the land was returned it could be sold or turned into housing.
The deal with Fletchers allowed for something like 20% of the land closest to the mountain and stonefields becoming iwi control.
Sure and NZ keeps things in museums, and people can stand right next to those things. Vague comparisons are not really relevant to this discussion.
What you are arguing is Pākehā values. Which is fine. I just don't understand why they should trump Māori values.
The iwi had an agreement with Fletchers which appeared to allow for both. Surely they are the ones to say .
“Members within an iwi” reached an agreement with Fletchers that they were individually willing to accept. AFAIK, there were others involved at that time that disagreed, but were not afforded equal consideration.
This fundamentally illustrates why the use of SHA's to avoid existing RMA processes for required consultation can be reasonably expected to result in blowback.
The use of selective choice of representative for any consultative process, can remove the integrity of consultation, while retaining the pretext. This is true, not only for Māori, but other groups as well. Recognising how far some authorities have come from the intent of consultation while improving the look of it, would improve outcomes for all.
What does that even mean.
The SHA mandated that Fletchers have 'low cost housing' which they were prepared to offer for the iwi along with shared equity path to ownership. Returning 20% of the site to the iwi isnt one of the requirements of the SHA.
The other night on that Maori TV series on 'The negoiators' they covered one well known woman who was involved in such settlement talks for her iwi and they showed how on the final day when the Minister and the iwi would sign the deed of Settlement, a group of people who had never participated in any of the hui or talks over the previous decade, they blocked any signing.
I wouldnt want to tell Maori how and when they should negioate if at all, but its a long consultative process involving many meetings and a signoff occurs when consensus is reached.
'Selective representatives' is a normal process but pathway requires broad consensus.
That of course can be blocked at the last minute by people who dont participate in the overall process.
Thats what happened in Ihumatao , where Pania Newton drove back from Rotorua where she was living and who had never taken part in Kawerau A Maki hui or decisions became spokesperson against the agrred development.
Molly, you dont offer any definitive background or information for your claims, which amount to merely 'dont like it' – as though you would ever be asked !
"I wouldnt want to tell Maori how and when they should negioate if at all,.."
And yet here you are, apparently saying Kiingi Tūheitia is wrong when he says the agreement reached by mana whenua is that the land should be returned.
"…but its a long consultative process involving many meetings and a signoff occurs when consensus is reached."
Or a signoff occurs without consensus. Or a signoff happens because the people want to cut their losses and/or think this is the best they can get despite it not being just. You're missing significant aspects here, including that the Crown dictated both the settlement process and who could be legally an Iwi in that process.
I'd like to see your source for that. To make sure it is true, and then to examine it in context.
My understanding is that 6 cousins formed SOUL, and they whakapapa in different ways. Most recent source for that is in the RNZ piece, but it's been a clear narrative for the past two months.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018713927/soul-spokesperson-qiane-matata-sipu-says-winston-wrong-on-ihumatao
There may be a good reason why it is in interest for Tainui to back getting the land back. Do you know what that might be Weka?
I have been involved with a community planning programme that undertook considerable consultation with many members of the community, and documented all feedback, over a period of two years. We used multiple methods of communication, and gave everyone many updates and ways of contributing.
Despite this, against hundreds of registered contact, council representatives chose to listen to the minority of very vocal locals who are part of the longterm network. A verified percentage of 4%, who didn't undertake any information gathering, discussion with other residents or consideration of long term community benefits. As our local board members are fond of saying, "If we listened to the community, we would never get anything done".
I was part of a community planning network, and although we were a community fighting against a long established old boys network, we were not the only ones. We were very careful to document, but even that means nothing if personal views and relationships take precedence.
The SHA was a mechanism that was legal, but it was always flawed.
I looked at purchasing a section in Ihumatao, about twenty years ago, and another friend purchased the same section around two years later. They have been involved with previous discussions with Manukau District Council, and have invested a lot of their own resources (time and money) with bringing this matter to the attention of council, and other iwi.
I have had considerable contact with Auckland Council during consultation with the Unitary Plan, both as a representative of a community and as an individual. From my own experience, the attention given to feedback is filtered, both by the local boards, and in terms of framework, directed towards certain outcomes.
For that reason, I think it is naiive to assume that Auckland Council have acted with integrity on this issue.
Weka,
What are Māori values? Of course, the government makes decisions for all NZers, not for a minority of NZers.
Do you see a difference between how many Pākehā think about Ihumātao, and how mana whenua do?
Maori assets are worth in excess of $40 billion. Land that's worth about $40 million equals about one-tenth of one percent of the value of those assets.
If Ihumatao means so much to so many Maori, the answer is obvious. Maori have the ability to buy the land. Receiving it as a gift from the Government would be disheartening, disempowering and would smack of tokenism. Surely Maori have had enough tokenism from Pakeha.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12224193
Yeah and maybe the government can setup a givealittle page for the land buyback… 😆
Or Iwi could set up a givealittle page on their own.
So you formely ross want us to buy our own land back taken because we wouldn't swear an allegience to Queen Victoria this sounds rather sick to me. Waikato people were punished for not allowing their men to go to the war yet they had good reason land confiscation was why and then when our men that did go got back they were treated like second class citizens with land, benefits, housing all went to pakeha so much for being a fair country and all of us having equal opportunities this is all bullshit
So you formely ross want us to buy our own land back
You have not shown that it is your land. But you are welcome to provide creative solutions to ensure Fletchers are no worse off, bearing in mind that any solution should not rely on disempowering Maori.
Great news, our government have seen fit to spend 4.5 million dollars on purchasing the house Kate Sheppard lived in for some time. I don't understand why the same reasoning that facilitated that purchase doesn't apply at Ihumātao.
….maybe if Hone Heke was white and lived at Ihumātao for a few years.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12268896
Kate Sheppard house will be owned by the Crown so that anyone, including Maori, can visit. The Crown could subsequently sell the property and realise any gain from the sale. I guess the Government could do the same with Ihumātao.
By the way, today marks the 126th anniversary of women winning the right to vote in New Zealand.
Just as Fletchers have attempted to do, if Tainui buy the site they would be well within their rights to fence it off, do as they like with it and regulate access. We need to be finding ways to unite us, not hammering in wedges.
Yes, as you say Crown ownership would provide access to all, including pakeha. Yes, if circumstances change in the future, the Crown could sell the site. It's not many feet above the Manukau Harbour, the Crown may well be marketing it as a potential marina site in 50 years.
I have no problem if Tainui buy the site and do that. You can't just rock up to Stonehenge and have a look around.
Stonehenge is owned by the Crown. What you appear to be saying is that if Māori want to protect their important sites and history they have to fund it themselves, but Pākehā can have the government fund the sites and history important to Pākehā.
you have no problem us buying our confiscated land back gosman
That is correct. The legally confiscated land.
"Legally" confiscated indeed. Mind you, "legally" often doesn't mean much:
Between 1933 and 1945 the Reich's Courts sentenced at least 72 German juveniles to death, among them 17-year-old Helmuth Hübener, found guilty of high treason for distributing anti-war leaflets in 1942.
"Legally" executed children, for example.
Silly them, should have just taken the Nazis to court to sort that out.
Are you comparing the NZ justice system to the Nazi justice system?
No, I'm ridiculing your idea that Māori should have taken the NZ government to court and argued they weren't rebels in order to get their land back, as if them actively trying for 200 years to get legal redress hadn't happened.
The NZ legal system HAS provided Maori with redress over ownership rights. Remember the Foreshore and Seabed debate.
Not sure what you mean there Gosman. The Foreshore and Seabed Act stole land from Māori and removed their rights to legal action.
But sure, there have been some redresses, in a limited way.
I did not mention the Act. I mentioned the debate. What was the catalyst for the Act being pushed through in to law?
Some Pākehā fearmongering that Māori were going to lock up the beaches if they weren't stopped.
I’m curious where you are going with this. You do realise that Clark passed the Act to *remove Māori legal rights?
Yes and that was wrong (but still legal)
Are you comparing the NZ justice system to the Nazi justice system?
Nope, just using a handy example to demonstrate that "legal" is no indicator of merit.
Germany ain’t a great example. After World War I, Germany “forfeited 13 percent of its European territory (more than 27,000 square miles) and one-tenth of its population (between 6.5 and 7 million people).” That can happen when you lose a war. 🙂
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/map/german-territorial-losses-treaty-of-versailles-1919
legally confiscated under two acts created primarily to take our land the settlement act and the rebellious act because our coloniser could not win the war with guns so they used the pen stop making excuses gosman
Do you want the government to purchase it and keep it in State hands like they are doing with Kate Sheppard's old house?
I would object if the State purchased the house and gave it back to Kate Sheppard’s family.
It's an important historic site to anyone that has an interest in pre European NZ. I don't think this is a Brown/Euro thing but that's the engine room for the friction.
The part that is of interest is already protected. The rest of it has been part of a working farm for over a hundred years.
Visualise Stonehenge surrounded by 100's of squeezed in McMansions. Yes, it is surrounded by open fields, what a great idea, we should do the same. Plane Spotters Park.
We are so close to agreement Gos.
Best you go there David ..its no plane spotters park
Ahh ok, it looks just round the coast from Mangere airport
Oh! your comment that I was responding to disappeared!
David you can find out about the Mountain and otautaua-stonefields here
https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/arts-culture-heritage/heritage-walks-places/Documents/otautaua-stonefields-historic-reserve-brochure.pdf
Thanks Duke, interesting as it is, I get the feeling you have provided me with this link because of some perceived gap in my knowledge of the place. I haven't walked it, I Google maps zoomed in and out. Viewed the site from the major roads, flown over it. For me the gems in that brochure are paragraphs like…
"The Otuataua Stonefields and the surrounding areas have been occupied and cultivated since the earliest days of settlement in the region. A recent carbon age estimate for shell midden from an archaeological site on nearby Puketutu Island dates to the 12th century; this is currently one of the earliest dates for human occupation in Aotearoa (New Zealand)."
We get one chance to look after places like this. Those 10 kms of Southern Motorway before the Bombay Hills, 1000's of acres suitable for building and laying rails.
Specific Archeological sites that arent previously known about are protected in anycase during a development process , but in this area the whole historic stonefields are in a reserve and wont be built on.
Its not always common but this is an instance of historically important sites being saved and housing can both occur because they arent together. Raising this as still an issue , when its all about the return of the open fields, just confuses people.
it actually is brown/ euro thing if you look at whose historical sites have been protected and whose haven't
The Stonefields sites HAVE been protected. The paddocks that may or may not have been used in other types of agriculture haven't been.
Can you find me some land that was used for agricultural purposes by NZ Europeans which is protected on the same scale as as Ihumaatao?
Molesworth Station for one.
What is a pastoral lease if not Govt protection of European agricultural purposes?
LOL! Are you claiming Pastoral leases are there to protect the land for historical purposes?
No I found you some land that was used for agricultural purposes by NZ Europeans which is protected on an even larger scale than Ihumaatao.
Then I quoted a tenure review expert pointing out a method through the Crown Pastoral Land Act 1998 that Crown pastoral land can be freeholded or alternatively restored to Crown ownership as public land. This is an example of protections of NZ european farming concerns.
You chose to ignore my points to quibble about a claim of your own imagining. Strawman.
There is no cultural basis behind pastoral leases and they are not protected for historical reasons. You may as well claim National parks were set up to protect land for NZ Europeans.
Not Europeans, but this Chinese market garden site has been protected,
https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/114079392/heritage-protection-for-ashburton-chinese-market-garden
The buildings have been protected. Not the ground on it's own.
What's your point?
My point is the equivalent of the buildings have been protected at Ihumaatao. It is the surrounding land that you are trying to argue is somehow culturally significant. Your example does not equate to that.
From the article:
"The buildings are already protected under the council district plan, but from today, the whole site will get protection and any earthworks or proposals to develop the land will require permission from us along with the land owners."
So the ground has been protected.
So if it is already protected what is the problem?
All of the NZ land farmed by Europeans in the 12th century is protected. If there was such a place we'd be moving the Beehive to the sacred site.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018713926/winston-peters-getting-involved-in-ihumatao-may-not-be-in-the-national-interest
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018713927/soul-spokesperson-qiane-matata-sipu-says-winston-wrong-on-ihumatao
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018713938/maori-news-correspondent-leigh-marama-mclachlan-on-ihumatao
good luck sorting that can of worms
We were living there during the European Middle Ages. King Arthur and Knights of the Round Table times. I think that's significant beyond the already protected stonefields. A significance that should have little to do with the colour of our skin.
What historical significance does a paddock which over some long time has used for growing vegetables, crops and more recently cows have. Its not what is called hsirorically significant.
You are just repeating claims for the stonefields which are protected with the paddocks which arent
believe me when you go there you will know the difference. Google maps shouldnt be the basis to claim historically significance.
I can zoom right in or out via an aerial photo.
I don't think me walking the site is at the core of our bone of contention Duke. I'm of the opinion 'Wow, people tilled the soil here when Robin Hood was operational." and you're of the opinion 'So what?'
Yeah. People tilled the soil in lots of places that are now covered with buildings of all sorts. Why are these fields any more special than those lands?
So you haven't been following this issue at all… and now you've decided it's just some random fields being fought over.
Not in NZ they didn't. 12th century is about as far back as human records go here. We are the newest land mass on Earth and the last to be occupied. 12th century is nothing to an indigenous Australian, a tick of the clock on their timeline. For us, it is the beginning of people here.
I appreciate that many might have a 'So what?' view of the issue. Many don't.
The law was changed in 1993 so that the Waitangi Tribunal could not recommend that private land be confiscated by the Crown or returned to Maori. What are the benefits of that law?
https://www.waitangitribunal.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Publications/Te-Manutukutuku-Issue-23.pdf