Imperator Fish: Why CGT will kill us all

33 comments on “Imperator Fish: Why CGT will kill us all ”

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1. burt 1

   17 July 2011 at 1:07 pm

   Jesus also said a few things about false prophets.

   I think property speculators should be welcoming CGT – it puts all the mum and dad rental property owners on the same footing as the people who do it for a living. The small operators with one perhaps two rental properties will be taxed just like the mega rich speculators. What excellent Labour party policy – sock it to the little guys !
   • Colonial Viper 1.1

     17 July 2011 at 1:29 pm

     The little guys = 92% of New Zealanders who don’t have investment properties
     • Cadwallader 1.1.1

       18 July 2011 at 3:36 pm

       Diddums!
   • Ari 1.2

     17 July 2011 at 5:07 pm

     Hah, right, and if the tax were structured to effect those small-time investors less, you’d be calling it an envy tax on successful investors.

     Fact is that the mum-and-dad landlords are less likely to sell up in the first place and would probably be fine just taking in the rent income most of the time. Although, if you’d like a tax that’s much more friendly to smaller investors, you could always support a financial transaction tax.
   • mickysavage 1.3

     17 July 2011 at 5:20 pm

     The small operators with one perhaps two rental properties will be taxed just like the mega rich speculators. What excellent Labour party policy – sock it to the little guys !

     Um the way I understand it, and I stand to be corrected, they will not. Traders will pay income tax and a capital gains tax, mum and dad investors will pay a CGT.
     • burt 1.3.1

       17 July 2011 at 6:29 pm

       Which might be able to be put another way…. Traders will be able to deduct the operational expenses incurred being a trader from the capital gain and pay tax on the clear profit. Mum & Dad investors will just pay tax on the gain without be able to claim the operational costs.
   • bbfloyd 1.4

     18 July 2011 at 12:28 pm

     nice try butt…. your ugly little slip is showing..
     • burt 1.4.1

       18 July 2011 at 7:00 pm

       bbfloyd

       nice try butt…. your ugly little slip is showing..

       So what spurred the personal attack: Was it when I pointed out that mum and dad investors will probably be more roughly treated by the tax system than large property speculators?

       Or was it that I didn’t just nod and agree with the Labour=good brigade and cheer a tax package for which we know none of the detail?

       Perhaps it was that in another thread I noted that accountants and tax lawyers would be stoked at the idea of new and complicated tax regimes to work the angles of ?

       Perhaps it was my comment in a previous thread that having given property speculators a golden decade Labour now want to punish them because that will be popular with mum dad investors who haven’t noticed yet that they will be hammered double hard as the big traders can afford to work the angles and they cant ?

       So what was it ?
2. dupdedo 2

   17 July 2011 at 1:18 pm

   These posts are getting more desperate by the day… must be getting closer to an election
   • Colonial Viper 2.1

     17 July 2011 at 1:30 pm

     Speaking of clueless desperation, did you hear the NATs crying about NZ rocketing backwards with a knife through the heart?

     
3. Rodel 3

   17 July 2011 at 1:40 pm

   Love it the way the right wingers (including newspaper sub editors) use the word ‘desperate’ whenever they want to comment on a left policy which threatens their comfort.
   • Jim Nald 3.1

     17 July 2011 at 1:56 pm

     Indeed.
     Under pressure or being caught out, it’s quite noticeable the rwnjs project their own desperation to others.
4. Afewknowthetruth 4

   17 July 2011 at 2:28 pm

   Business as usual will kill us all, whether we have CGT or not.
5. Frank Macskasy 5

   17 July 2011 at 2:35 pm

   Heh heh heh… very good!!!
6. Terry 6

   17 July 2011 at 4:08 pm

   Well, the word “desperate” might equally be positive, such as “desperate to do good, desperate to be intelligent”, even perhaps “desperate for a sense of ethics, desperate to avoid blasphemous distortions (like this ‘Screwball Fish’)” .
   This illiterate should become very, very, desperate about his/her abuse of logic.
   • mickysavage 6.1

     17 July 2011 at 5:39 pm

     What the?

     I understand (and enjoy) Imperator very well.  But you … 
     • Rodel 6.1.1

       18 July 2011 at 9:44 am

       I’d like some of what Terry’s smoking
7. Herodotus 7

   17 July 2011 at 4:12 pm

   Chirken little is telling al the shy is falling!!!!
   CGT could have been an important piece to rebalancing the source of tax for NZ. Pity self seeking and lack of boldness has undermined labours almost circuit breaker. Boldness was sort and we see timidness :-(.
   • bbfloyd 7.1

     18 July 2011 at 12:35 pm

     indulging in transference again herooo? of course you are… it’s all you have left to throw.. the tory economic policy has been exposed for the fraud it is.. bill english is already being groomed to take the fall for it’s failure…

     the only cowards we can see from here are the leadership of the national party.. with all the advantages bought for them they still havn’t the balls to actually do what’s right..
8. the pink postman 8

   17 July 2011 at 4:24 pm

   Where do the Nats get this “mum and dad investors from” most of the so called mum and dads I see are working their buts off for a mininum or low wage. They certainly do not have money for shares or speculation.The Nat’s will fight Capital gains by saying they are the politics of envy . they should be reminded that its is not envious to wonder why some have millions of dollars and 3 or 4 houses just because they can shuffle paper and have inside information on company shares whilst ordinary workers are working 40 hours plus for a pittance . Its not envy to see some paying little or no tax but still used the public service that the workers pay for with their tax .
   Its not envy to see lawyers able to save their clients from paying tax when they (workers) have theirs taken out of their pay before they even see it.
   Its called the decent society. Not the one Bolger promised us but the real decent society.
   • Draco T Bastard 8.1

     17 July 2011 at 5:21 pm

     +1
   • Colonial Viper 8.2

     17 July 2011 at 5:34 pm

     Yep – the responsibility that we have to each other, the awareness that there is no such thing as a self made man (or woman).

     BTW Miliband hitting these same notes in the UK. The responsibility (or irresponsibility of the rich), and our solidarity with each other.

     http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jul/16/ed-miliband-rupert-murdoch-phone-hacking
   • mickysavage 8.3

     17 July 2011 at 5:52 pm

     Mum Morgan and dad Stanley!

     The idea is to keep their base happy.  Their base does not include ordinary New Zealanders, they are very wealthy who believe that they deserve their privilege.

     So “politics of envy” is code to their supporters that they really deserve their wealth, every cent, and they can be really indignant at those bloody lefties who think a fair distribution is important.

     They do not want a fair distribution.  They keep on inventing crap ideas like “trickle down” and “free market” to essentially disguise what is really happening, the transfer of wealth from the rest to the few. 
   • Deadly_NZ 8.4

     17 July 2011 at 11:52 pm

     As I said yesterday all my $$$ goes on the essentials of life for my family, my car ran out of gas 2 days ago I just hope it’s there when I have the money for petrol things are that tight. And Blinglish wants me to buy what my taxes have already paid for???? The wankers are living in a dream world, and half of NZ wears rose coloured glasses. But the cheap tint is wearing off early, and the glow is starting to wane it should have lasted 3 years. but it was only 2.
     • Ianupnorth 8.4.1

       18 July 2011 at 3:00 pm

       Well said!
   • burt 8.5

     18 July 2011 at 7:06 pm

     Where do the Nats get this “mum and dad investors from” most of the so called mum and dads I see are working their buts off for a mininum or low wage. They certainly do not have money for shares or speculation.

     Well if that is the case then please explain how GCT will re-balance the tax burden ? Oh.. In a Labour sort of way of course – Claim it will hit the highest earners then just don’t tell anyone that the highest earners are all avoiding it and the middle earners now carry all the burden….

     Remember when 75% of high school teachers were classified as rich under Labour “top 5% tax rate” that one way or another was avoided by the top 5% but ended up hammering the next 20% of tax payers… Generated great surpluses and made people borrow shit loads though which gave us a perfect storm recession.
9. Lastmanstanding 9

   18 July 2011 at 4:20 pm

   That was a cunning stunt (NOT) proposing a CGT. The CB poll was done after the CGT was leaked to the media.

   The timeline was leak Thursday 7th July Poll taken up to Wednesday 13th July Offical release Thursday 14th July

   So those polled knew about the CGT. And if they didnt stand by for another drop after the next poll.

   And you know why. the Citizens are sick to death with taxes. Even those who dont pay pay net taxes are sick to death of them

   They are sick to death od seeing their hard earned money goint to compensate criminals who feel upset $3500 worth.

   They are sick to death of their hard earned taxes going to people better off than they are who wont contribute to society and hold their hands out.

   Thats why a CGT has gone down like a bucket of sick with the Citizens. And thats why they are fed up with pollies bribing them with their own hard earned money
10. red blooded 10

    18 July 2011 at 7:02 pm

    I am half of a “Mum and Dad investor” (no-one to play mummies and daddies with at the moment: oh well…) and I am not sick to death of paying my fair share of tax. Most people want to live in a society (as opposed to a rabid crowd of self-seeking individuals) and when they think about it they realise that this means sharing resources through paying tax. 

    I pay tax on my salary; it’s fair enough for me to pay tax on any profit that I may make when I eventually decide to sell the house that I’m currently renting out (without managing to make a profit on it). I don’t think we should be backing away from the idea of a reasonable, equitable tax. If we want government services and infrastructure, we have to pay for them. 
11. Drakula 11

    18 July 2011 at 7:35 pm

    The right wingers argue that if a capital gains tax were to be applied to all across the board, especially to landlords the renters will suffer because their landlords will be passing in the expence.

    If the government spends the revenue on irrelevent trivia that could very well happen but if a CGT is spent on housing, state housing, and urban accommodation that will elleviate the shortage of accommodation and the slum landlords will have to lower their prices.

    It is what CGT is spent on that is so important!!!!
    • burt 11.1

      18 July 2011 at 7:57 pm

      Considering the policy requires us to borrow for about 7 years before a single cent starts flowing in you make a very valid point.

      OK people remember you will need to keep Labour in office for a minimum of 9 years before the borrowing to pay for tax cuts starts to get repaid by CGT.

      So hey 9 years from now we might start to see an increase in state housing to counter the rise in rental prices that has by that time been hurting people for almost a decade.

      I know, Trevor won’t be happy that detail is being discussed – but it’s got to be done.
      • Colonial Viper 11.1.1

        18 July 2011 at 8:17 pm

        Labours plan beats National to the finish line – and we keep our assets to boot.

        Long term thinking LAB, short term sell off NATs.
        • burt 11.1.1.1

          19 July 2011 at 12:32 am

          Labours plan beats National to the finish line – and we keep our assets to boot.

          Yeah, cause my leader said so and Key can’t be trusted, Blingish is full of shit and besides Trevor told us all not to talk about the detail so that’s it – Our plan beats your plan – so there ! Na na!

          Mumble mutter oh that’s right – the other talking point – Own our future – There I got asset sales in as well – na na!
12. David Cunliffe 12

    20 July 2011 at 10:10 pm

    Gotta love this post! Nearly split myself laughing. Well done @ I.F!

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