Is Judith Collins willing to denounce the use of fake news?

113 comments on “Is Judith Collins willing to denounce the use of fake news? ”

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1. Sacha 1

   6 August 2018 at 5:05 pm

   See what happens when you believe Whaleoik is a valuable source of info on the interwebs.
2. Clive Macann 2

   6 August 2018 at 5:05 pm

   She has obviously lost the plot. She should get a job crushing cars and leave politics to the worthy.
   • dukeofurl 2.1

     6 August 2018 at 5:28 pm

     She couldnt even ‘crush cars’ as the grand total was 3 when she announced mission accomplished.
     There was then some fake news about a ‘reduction in crashes’ as vindication when the 3 criteria for getting a car crushed didnt include ‘having an accident’
3. AsleepWhileWalking 3

   6 August 2018 at 5:34 pm

   It could have happened to anyone (who didn’t take the time to check the story).

   She has already proven how little she cares for rape victims during her time as Justice Minister. Her pointless Tweets will change nothing on that regard.

   Has she run out of negative comments around housing already?
4. Sacha 4

   6 August 2018 at 5:43 pm

   Judy doubles down: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/106052951/judith-collins-defends-linking-to-fake-news-articles-on-france-consent-laws

   “I was shocked to learn there is no age of consent in France….This is a civilised country, they should know better.”

   Reading is for sissies.

   Collins said she didn’t buy into “conspiracies” about liberals pushing paedophilia worldwide, despite sharing the article which suggested liberals were doing just that in its first paragraph.

   The baseless conspiracy theory that LGBT activists are also pushing for wider acceptable of paedophilia by adding “P” to LGBT” has gained much traction in the United States in recent months.

   Useful idiot.
   • arkie 4.1

     6 August 2018 at 5:53 pm

     I think it’s worse than that, She knows what she’s doing. It has worked for Trump.
   • dukeofurl 4.2

     6 August 2018 at 6:21 pm

     Shes ‘shocked’ to find out shes tried to spin her way out of this and instead got it wrong again

     The Age of Consent in France is 15 years old. The age of consent is the minimum age at which an individual is considered legally old enough to consent to participation in sexual activity. Individuals aged 14 or younger in France are not legally able to consent to sexual activity, and such activity may result in prosecution for statutory rape or the equivalent local law.

     https://www.ageofconsent.net/world/france
5. Craig Glen Eden 5

   6 August 2018 at 5:49 pm

   Crusher transitioning to Trumpett? Spouting lies for political gain.
6. Bill 6

   6 August 2018 at 5:52 pm

   So…France refused to pass legislation that would set a minimum age for consent. Here’s an Independent article with links. A fair few groups in France are up in arms about it.

   The US based newswire.com site took the basic truth and twisted the fuck out of it for sure. Not passing legislation is very different to passing legislation.

   And the headline is completely misleading on that front, ( France Passes Law Saying Children Can Consent To Sex With Adults) while the only link goes to a partially pay-walled article in Le Figaro.

   But is it “fake news”? It’s a mashed up, shit piece of interpretation by a guy called “Baxter” who promotes himself as having travelled in over 80 countries and won arguments in every single one.

   If Judith Collins, or anyone else, wants to treat such people as worthwhile sources, then bigger fool them. 🙂
7. Robert Guyton 7

   6 August 2018 at 6:14 pm

   Pucky’s gonna be pissed. If he shows up tomorrow, he’ll have a lot of work to do, scraping his heroine’s *reputation off the floor; he’ll have forgiven her, of course, and re-dedicated his life to her, despite the ignominy, but it’ll be a tough day for the man who keeps Judith’s 16th birthday party photo on his bedside table and carries a second copy in the pocket closest to his heart.
   *term used as loosely as possible
   • Rosemary McDonald 7.1

     22 August 2018 at 12:30 pm

     This could very well add to her…. attractiveness.

     An extra sparkle.

     More lust to her lustre.

     Or some such.
8. alwyn 8

   6 August 2018 at 6:19 pm

   I don’t think much of the interpretation of the story but I can’t really see how it can be defined as “fake news”.
   Here is a French interpretation of what has happened. I think this source is reliable enough.
   https://www.thelocal.fr/20180516/france-ditches-plan-to-set-age-of-sexual-consent-at-15
   I must confess that I had never realised that France didn’t have an absolute age of consent, and I have spent a great deal of time there over the years. Quite amazingly backward, aren’t they?
   • mickysavage 8.1

     6 August 2018 at 6:28 pm

     The French have a similar situation to us. Sexual intercourse with a person under the requisite age, 16 here and 15 there, is illegal. The proposal was to extend it so that it was automatically sexual violation if sex with an under age person occurred, regardless of consent.

     The report was wrong. France did not vote to change the law to allow young persons to consent. It did not pass a law to say that sex with them was rape regardless of consent.

     Judith should understand this.
     • Cinny 8.1.1

       6 August 2018 at 6:41 pm

       A quick google of ones source…. in this case ‘your news wire’ was obviously too hard for judith to manage.
     • Anne 8.1.2

       6 August 2018 at 6:46 pm

       This might have already been mentioned, but it appears the report originated from a news site famous for spreading “fake news”. And silly Crusher fell for it!

       That is what was reported on TV news this evening.
   • Tricledrown 8.2

     7 August 2018 at 9:30 am

     Alwynger no where as backward as yourself.
     Read your link.
     It states that the legislation was so badly put together that it was ambiguous leaving legal loopholes that would make the law ineffective
     • NZJester 8.2.1

       7 August 2018 at 3:23 pm

       So basically what they voted against as I understand it was changing the current law that gives minors some protection to one that would possibly have given them less protection against a pedophile with the money to afford a good lawyer?
9. Cinny 9

   6 August 2018 at 6:40 pm

   ROFL! LMFAO !!!! Can’t stop laughing.
10. David Mac 10

    6 August 2018 at 6:43 pm

    Good reporting has nothing to do with opinion. A good news story arms the consumer with all they’ll need to decide how they feel. A non fake news story focuses spotlights from all angles on the situation in question.

    We need to hear from the bank robber, getaway driver, teller, bystander and cop. We don’t care what the film-maker’s feelings are about armed robbery.

    A hallmark of fake news is a report that features just the cop or just the robber. Looks like Judith jumped on the strength of a mono-outlook. Hanging out with a whale will do that.
11. marty mars 11

    6 August 2018 at 6:49 pm

    Yes this tactic won’t work for Judith unfortunately she is not as bright as that g.enuis t.rump.
    • David Mac 11.1

      6 August 2018 at 7:01 pm

      Yep, the nation is buzzing with the new baby in the Beehive creche and some banshee is screeching from the cheap-seats ‘What about the pedophiles!’

      It’s a strategy with problems.
12. Macro 12

    6 August 2018 at 6:58 pm

    Talking of Fake News……
    https://talk.whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/uploads/default/original/2X/4/4cfdaafcd6bada53663ff6cf2eede259ede604cd.jpg
    As a person, supposedly with legal training, Judith Collins should know better.
13. Kat 13

    6 August 2018 at 7:13 pm

    ZZZZZZttt…bilp…blip….squark…..skkkits……oooh….pssxt…….ziiiiip……sssshhihhht……..Hooton calling…..ad….ad…….ad…vice for Ar……dern……..more pufff….pieces…..womens…..mags………2020……2020……no crush………no crush…….fake news……….batt low……..

    Crackle Crackle…..poof!
    • David Mac 13.1

      6 August 2018 at 7:16 pm

      You dirty rotten spoiler, I was going to watch that later.
      • Kat 13.1.1

        6 August 2018 at 8:43 pm

        Meanwhile on Planet Key Hooton is assessing the continuing performance of his alter ego on earth. The global neo lib mantra for planet earth is now “buy gold” and he doesn’t have any.

        What now………..

        Tune in and be listening for the next riveting installment of “Hoots and Hosk”…lost on a revolving planet…and somewhere in the southern hemisphere.
14. Carolyn_Nth 14

    6 August 2018 at 7:14 pm

    Spin Off: “Seven other horrifying incidents Jacinda Ardern must immediately condemn”

    Includes:

    Ardern also needs to condemn Australia for forcibly vaccinating its citizens via chemtrails.

    …
    While Ardern is coming out against Perry’s human meat diet, she should also condemn Keanu Reeves for huffing the blood of babies to get high.
    • David Mac 14.1

      6 August 2018 at 7:27 pm

      It must be a click thing. the more outrageous the hook, the more money.

      I’ve noticed it happening with utube clips. The title might be ‘Crazy aircraft carrier landings’ but they doctor the thumbnail bait. They feature a photo shopped image of Concorde landing on a container ship.

      I think I need to get into the ‘hanging by a thread of plausibility’ headline business.
      • Carolyn_Nth 14.1.1

        6 August 2018 at 7:31 pm

        i don’t get that on youtube. usually most of the suggestions are based on what I’ve looked at previously. I was just on the YT main page, and am cursing ever clicking on a Molyneux vid – I now get several suggestions of his vids.

        You must click on some of the outrageous vids. i mostly get music vids… and Hannah Gadsby – plus some NZ In The House vids.
        • David Mac 14.1.1.1

          6 August 2018 at 7:40 pm

          I’m a huge utube fan, i look at all sorts so it chucks up a potpourri of recommendations. I think it’s very clever at the ‘If you liked that, you might like this too’ it takes me on adventures….yeah i know…get out more.
15. Tuppence Shrewsbury 15

    6 August 2018 at 7:38 pm

    Yawn! A twitter news story.

    Best thing is this never ends well for the left
    • David Mac 15.1

      6 August 2018 at 7:47 pm

      I wonder how far we are away from peak Twitter? Everything ends. Humans are a social animal, we gravitate together, Twitter is social interaction with a condom made of rubber so thick it’s only just worth fucking. ‘Are you in?’ ‘I dunno.’

      We’ll discover each other again. Risk unprotected conversation.
      • Dennis Frank 15.1.1

        6 August 2018 at 7:58 pm

        Nicely put. I haven’t gone there because the challenge of restricting my comments to however many letters it is looked too difficult to even try. Altho I do take the point that the design is intended to teach brevity to folks who run off at the mouth. Definitely merit in that. But inducing too much focus on trivia.
        • David Mac 15.1.1.1

          6 August 2018 at 8:18 pm

          Thanks, yes the brevity requirement was genius.

          A vehicle that invites ‘whats on your mind’ and incorporates a 2 sentence ‘that’s enough thanks’ rule on everyone.

          I don’t have an account, just a few tastes of that sort of stuff and I start spending too much of my life with it. I got the DNA of an addict. I cut my own beak off.

          I’m with you Dennis. When we’re talking ‘This is what I had for dinner tonight’ room for a few sentences of caption is plenty. When we’re splitting an atom with a Swiss Army knife, we’ll need room for paragraphs.
    • Hanswurst 15.2

      6 August 2018 at 10:32 pm

      this never ends well for the left

      This will. In fact, it already has. Collins is a dick. Goodbye.
      • Tuppence Shrewsbury 15.2.1

        7 August 2018 at 9:13 am

        Collins was already a dick in the lefts eyes. Most sensible people aren’t on twitter so this won’t matter at all. Except that people will be aware that politicians publish stupid things sometimes. Now they’ll be more alert for it and I bet the next one to come along will be a lab / green mp.
        • the other pat 15.2.1.1

          7 August 2018 at 4:43 pm

          “Collins was already a dick in the lefts eyes”…..well IF that was true and inferring that the right does NOT think so just says humungus things about the intelligence of the right OR rather the lack of it amongst many other shortcomings.
    • Tricledrown 15.3

      7 August 2018 at 9:22 am

      Trump Supporter your as deluded as Twittler
      2Pence gooseberry
16. Robert Guyton 16

    6 August 2018 at 7:46 pm

    Jude’s jumped the shark.
17. rhinocrates 17

    6 August 2018 at 8:07 pm

    Someone should introduce her to Erran Morad and film what happens.
    • Andre 17.1

      6 August 2018 at 8:39 pm

      Do it back to back with an intro to Ladislas Kekkonen and see which one comes out more interesting.
18. Dennis Frank 18

    6 August 2018 at 8:08 pm

    The PM won’t respond to a tweet, the media will respond on her behalf. But if it does come up at a press conference, she could explain how she’d deal with it if Judith asked that question in parliament.

    Optimal response from the PM: “Sorry Judith, no time for distractions, I’ve got my mind on the job. I suggest you demonstrate your leadership potential by explaining to the House why you think French domestic policy is more important than ours, and if you can’t, then apologise to the House for wasting our valuable time.”
    • Stuart Munro 18.1

      6 August 2018 at 9:15 pm

      She’s not so careless – she has no responsibility for French law, much less poor or inflammatory interpretations of it.
      • Dennis Frank 18.1.1

        7 August 2018 at 9:47 am

        Yeah I know, but it wouldn’t be careless. She’s politically savvy enough to recognise the opportunity to make it obvious to everyone that the next leader of the Nats is inadequate. Now you & I & many here already know that, but voters don’t, so the effect would be to embed a handicap for the Nats.
19. Graeme 19

    6 August 2018 at 8:16 pm

    “This is unfortunate timing for Judith. Just as Newshub is running another who should lead National poll that Judith is currently winning.”

    That’ll be why she did it. Red meat, rather raw, for her faithful.
20. David Mac 20

    6 August 2018 at 8:56 pm

    Trump has transformed Twitter.

    Once we got over ‘Goodness me the Prez is tweeting’ he has ultra milked the potential the medium offers a person like him, in a position like his.

    For his supporters, including the many too shy to hand on heart say ‘I’m for Trump’ Twitter is like he’s there sharing a Bud. For his nay-sayers, so far, it spins them into a directionless frenzy. Arms flailing with a ‘My God now he’s saying this.”

    It’s a medium made for him. He honed his looking down the lens and winning trust with 7.5 second bursts of bull-shit on a reality TV show. The perfect apprenticeship.

    “You won’t believe how fantastic this is going to be.”

    If he wasn’t so much actually just like Mike Myer’s Dr Evil it would be funny.

    I’m counting the days until Trump straps a wee person to his belly.
    • David Mac 20.1

      6 August 2018 at 9:38 pm

      Trump would of course insist on a female Mini-Mel, he’s no homo.

      He could practice his “Look, because I’m famous, when I grab her on the pussy she likes it.”

      “Thank-you Mr President.”

      Third rate porn titilation….but the actual guy that is the actual president?

      Tony Soprano would be better, Carmella had influence.
21. Blazer 21

    6 August 2018 at 9:30 pm

    Someone told me Judith is married to a man with a chinese sounding ..surname…’Ina Garda Oravida’..the Iron Flutterbye.
    • Dennis Frank 21.1

      7 August 2018 at 9:52 am

      🙂 Most readers probably too young to get your literary reference to that hit song from 1968 that created the hard rock genre.
22. WILD KATIPO 22

    6 August 2018 at 9:36 pm

    Judith Collins… huh .

    Wang Dang Doodle – Howlin Wolf (London Session) – YouTube
    
    • Kat 22.1

      7 August 2018 at 12:16 am

      “Oh ho, I asked her for water, oh ho, she brought me gasoline Oh ho, I asked her for water, oh ho, she brought me gasoline That’s the troublingest woman that I ever seen………..”
23. BM 23

    6 August 2018 at 9:41 pm

    Next PM of New Zealand.

    Suck on that you left wing fucks.

    😈 😈 😈 😈 😈
    😈 😈 😈 😈 😈
    😈 😈 😈 😈 😈
    • fender 23.1

      6 August 2018 at 9:56 pm

      That will only ever be news on that fucked-up site you loonies have as your homepage.

      Is that emoticon attack a representation of the sheet of acid you’ve been taking?
    • marty mars 23.2

      6 August 2018 at 9:58 pm

      Crasher Collins does it again duh sorry I crashed he he – Yep real PM material lol – whoops crashed again…
      • Incognito 23.2.1

        6 August 2018 at 10:26 pm

        It’s deeply blue and crashes a lot and all you want to do is crush something? Judith has a lot in common with the Blue Screen of Death.
    • Ed 23.3

      6 August 2018 at 9:59 pm

      How unpleasant.
    • David Mac 23.4

      6 August 2018 at 10:04 pm

      Judith?

      I don’t think enough of us will warm to the prospect BM. We have a socialist core that is alien to her. We’re a nation of socialists that don’t mind a new car or a crayfish on our birthdays. I don’t think Judith connects with the Kiwi ethos: “Us”.

      We like that lady with big teeth and a baby.
    • adam 23.5

      6 August 2018 at 10:06 pm

      Good to see you go straight for the gutter response BM.

      Not surprised in the slightest. I’d say I was mildly disappointed, but then again you have proven over and over again you only have morals when they can help you win an argument.
    • Gabby 23.6

      7 August 2018 at 12:57 am

      You can’t be the real BMhole. He’s a nice wee chap when he’s off the turps.
    • Rae 23.7

      7 August 2018 at 7:45 am

      If she was real PM material, she would show some actual spine, by owning her own stupidity, instead of trying to twist it around somehow to make it seem a bit legit. (Actually, real, real PM material would have made sure of the veracity of what she was reading in the first place, instead of just assuming it is so because, well, Macron).
      You are dreaming, truth is she is all bluff and blunder, a gutless wonder.
      • dukeofurl 23.7.1

        7 August 2018 at 8:36 am

        Shes never done that . Its always been double down with even more fake news
      • the other pat 23.7.2

        7 August 2018 at 4:57 pm

        nice!!!!!….”.she is all bluff and blunder, a gutless wonder”….poet happening here well done.
    • Tricledrown 23.8

      7 August 2018 at 9:34 am

      Barking Mad more maniac’s barking now at invisible cars.
    • the other pat 23.9

      7 August 2018 at 4:55 pm

      ahh yes the LSD trip sheet…called envy isn’t it?…..tho she maybe the next PM…..in 2045!
24. Sacha 24

    7 August 2018 at 7:52 am

    And Bridges plays along by refusing to discipline her, RNZ reports (no link yet). Let the party audition continue. Expect more desperate Trumpy nonsense.
    • solkta 24.1

      7 August 2018 at 7:54 am

      It would be funny to watch him try.
      • the other pat 24.1.1

        7 August 2018 at 4:58 pm

        ewwww all i see is 50 shades of blue with that one!!
    • Tricledrown 24.2

      7 August 2018 at 9:35 am

      Bridges is to scared of the crusher
      His job is on the line.
      • mac1 24.2.1

        7 August 2018 at 12:46 pm

        On the noon news hour on Nat radio, Bridges said that he and Judith had a discussion on the phone last night and again in person this morning. Judith said she had no discussion. Perhaps she did get a bit of discipline from our Simon?

        Because if she denies what her leader says, she is going to be disciplined.

        Or is she deliberate in her positioning for a later crack at the leadership?
        • the other pat 24.2.1.1

          7 August 2018 at 4:59 pm

          ” Or is she deliberate in her positioning for a later crack at the leadership?”…..not quite…. its more positioning for the leadership crack methinks
          • mac1 24.2.1.1.1

            8 August 2018 at 10:34 am

            The beautiful thing about English for poets and punsters is that one word carries several meanings- like ‘crack’.

            I’m not sure if I want to know which one you mean, the other pat, but my meaning was to do with a ‘try’, not a ‘crevice’, or the drug or the ‘craíc’ as the Irish have it, nor a split in the ranks, as you might have it.

            Good joke, yours, though. I’m sure that the leadership crack is being assisted by a few underhand hammer blows with the media, a little late night chiselling over a bottle, or a little overheating round the BBQ.

            Certainly, cracks are appearing in the buttresses supporting Mr Bridges.
            • the other pat 24.2.1.1.1.1

              8 August 2018 at 12:24 pm

              BUTT ress???…..really?….nearly spat my tea everywhere!!! well done
              • mac1 …

                8 August 2018 at 6:52 pm

                🙂 Glad you spotted it, even though it was not intentional…………..initially.

                Snorting tea really gets up your nose.
25. Puckish Rogue 25

    7 August 2018 at 8:37 am

    Not sure what to go with…

    Beltway issue
    Everyone makes mistake, even Judith (hardest thing I’ve had to type)
    She was trying to draw attention to a very important issue
    Its sad watching the left try to take down a strong, confident woman
    Meh its already been forgotten about by the media

    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR5G0iowNTcKjLXkcPiOnpG41qFooN8CIRUhLhxZlNGhloTvVi5

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/08/poll-who-should-lead-the-national-party.html

    Still running at 40% 🙂
    • marty mars 25.1

      7 August 2018 at 8:59 am

      Maybe crasher Collins crashed again doh
    • Robert Guyton 25.2

      7 August 2018 at 9:01 am

      40% of National supporters want to be led by a woman who plays trite political games that backfire, making her look foolish?
      The future looks bright for the Left.
      • Puckish Rogue 25.2.1

        7 August 2018 at 9:52 am

        Pretty sure it was fake news or maybe it was CNNs fault 🙂
    • Sacha 25.3

      7 August 2018 at 11:07 am

      ‘very important issue’?

      Out of leftfield in our current NZ context – except recent fascist rabble-rousing attempts perhaps.
      • Puckish Rogue 25.3.1

        7 August 2018 at 11:19 am

        Anything Judith says is very important and everyone should listen to her
        • Cinny 25.3.1.1

          7 August 2018 at 11:45 am

          PR, you should give her a call, I think she would benefit from your services. She seems to need some kind of guidance.
          • Puckish Rogue 25.3.1.1.1

            7 August 2018 at 11:51 am

            You mean me, just me, ordinary me, talk to a goddess? In my dreams maybe…
            • Robert Guyton 25.3.1.1.1.1

              7 August 2018 at 12:48 pm

              Kali?
              • Puckish Rogue …

                7 August 2018 at 12:58 pm

                Aphrodite (obviously)
                • Robert Guyton …

                  7 August 2018 at 1:04 pm

                  http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/politics/collins-a-chance-to-return-to-cabinet/

                  https://www.specsavers.co.nz/eye-health/eye-tests/do-i-need-an-eye-test
                  • Puckish Rogue …

                    7 August 2018 at 3:03 pm

                    shes a fine looking woman…not to take anything away from her considerable poise, intellect and drive of course
26. Tricledrown 26

    7 August 2018 at 9:24 am

    Crusher inspired by Canadian neo Fascists.
    • Puckish Rogue 26.1

      7 August 2018 at 11:24 am

      I think you mean they’re pale, less interesting imitations of Dame Judith Collins
27. Paul Martinson 27

    7 August 2018 at 12:36 pm

    she stuffed up there.
    But Jan Logie posted on Fb that that Donald Trump was a racist during the run up to his election . Interested in why she said this I asked her for the evidence. She linked me to an ‘opinion piece’ can you believe which used fake news as its source.

    Julie Ann Genter said publicly there is such a thing as ‘white people’ in NZ. Geneticists say that is complete and utter crap and the ultimate fake news. It is too. All politicians are guilty of posting nonsense. Just sayin.
    • Robert Guyton 27.1

      7 August 2018 at 12:46 pm

      but…did Logie or Genter call on Jacinda to do something about it?
      Collins’ sneakiness is around trying to lever something against the PM; foolishly choosing fake news as her lever.
      • Paul Martinson 27.1.1

        7 August 2018 at 1:56 pm

        agree Robert. Egg on face. She has probably been reading how child exploitation is being normalized by some media ,and jumped to a very bad conclusion the French were losing the plot. Actually the french are extremely liberal as a people and it would not be that surprising to some if it were true.
28. arkie 28

    7 August 2018 at 12:50 pm

    Paul,
    Here is a list of Trumps actions around race. It is complicated but there is a common thread.

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/every-moment-donald-trumps-long-complicated-history-race

    As far as your second point, by the same token there is no such thing as ‘black people’ genetically either, but in this society it is very clear that ‘white people’ are ‘the norm’ and are advantaged by this. While race isn’t a genetic thing, the consequences and prejudices of the societal/economic aspects of ‘race’ are apparent and not a ‘nonsense’
    • Paul Martinson 28.1

      7 August 2018 at 2:16 pm

      Arkie,
      so much to read there. Ok I am aware of the claims against him, but have never actually heard him use the term white people for example. Have you? I would be interested to know. The claims don’t amount to evidence in court room surely
      To claim his tenants were ‘95% white’ is itself a racist accusation and appalling. People have been categorized with that nonsense. Skin tone is not an indicator of diversity and should not be used by anyone at anytime. That’s the problem with US society as whole. How do you define white. Its simply impossible. Its a social idea to some yes. But no one I know defines themselves that way. Its arbitrary and depends on who is spouting the nonsense.
      I noted in his inauguration speech he awkwardly used the word race for the first time Ive heard as if he ‘had’ to say it. To me Trump looks at people as ‘Winners or losers’, ‘Low energy or high energy’; ‘Criminal record or no criminal record’; ‘Educated or low IQ. Hes so black and white like that but discrimination based on how one perceives merit worthiness …occurs everyday in NZ during job interviews.
      Given there are no races in our taxonomy ..to prove racism you need to prove a person creates racial categories then treats people differently based on that assumption. Julie Ann Genters comment that ‘NZ board rooms have too many old white men and they should move on’ was classic racist sexist ageist language yet she said it with impunity. Imagine if Trump said that he would have been hanged by now.
      • arkie 28.1.1

        7 August 2018 at 2:48 pm

        The claims don’t amount to evidence in court room surely

        The Trumps settled charges of illegal discrimination with the Department of Justice twice. That was headed to the courtroom, so yeah, there was evidence of discrimination.

        To claim his tenants were ‘95% white’ is itself a racist accusation and appalling.

        What?

        to prove racism you need to prove a person creates racial categories then treats people differently based on that assumption.

        What?!

        For your edification:

        the concepts of race and racism are based on observable biological characteristics, any conclusions drawn about race on the basis of those observations are heavily influenced by cultural ideologies.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_racism

        It’s not racist to define observable differences, but it is racist to discriminate based on one’s opinion of those who are observably different.

        As to JAG being racist/sexist/ageist:

        while individual women or women as a whole may enact prejudicial biases towards specific men or toward men as a group, this is done so without the backing of a societal system of institutional power.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_sexism

        I fail to see how what she said had any material effect on the social or institutional power of old white men. Trump has equivocated neo-nazis and BLM, one of those groups is advocating for a white ethno-state, the other is asking for action on unjust treatment of POC. These two aims aren’t the same and only one of them is racist. My challenge to you is to determine which one.
        • Paul Martinson 28.1.1.1

          7 August 2018 at 3:12 pm

          Trump settled the charges of illegal discrimination but was that evidence of racism or evidence of legal strategy ? I don’t know. To me, to prove racism you need to know the mind of person or they must openly disclose their purpose. In the way African Americans were segregated based on the assumption there were a separate subspecies or the way the Nazis deported the Jews claiming they were a sub human race.n this is what I mean

          you say ” the concepts of race and racism are based on observable biological characteristics, any conclusions drawn about race on the basis of those observations are heavily influenced by cultural ideologies.”
          What does than mean?
          concepts of race based on observable biological differences could be anything/mean anything . Do you realize humans occur in more distinct categories based on the type of ear wax they have than by any other biological difference . This is just nuts. and why its nuts to do this

          Arkie , you seem to know who white people are so who are they ?? You haven’t answered. Please. Who are these people and how do I know if i met one. During WWII the Nazis referred to Jews, my ancestors…as non white while the fascists Italians referred to them as White. South Americans toady who are defined as white by their govt have more immediate African ancestry than most ‘African Americans. You cannot talk about ‘white people’ without saying who you mean beacsue it could mean anything, This was my point about Genters racist comment initially. Its as fake news as anything.
          • McFlock 28.1.1.1.1

            7 August 2018 at 3:41 pm

            Trump settled the charges of illegal discrimination but was that evidence of racism or evidence of legal strategy ?

            It’s evidence that there was enough evidence of racism to make settlement a legal strategy.

            How many more excuses are you going to invent for the fool, even in the face of his own goddamn legal admission?
            • Paul Martinson 28.1.1.1.1.1

              7 August 2018 at 4:32 pm

              McFlock
              to say “It’s evidence that there was enough evidence of racism to make settlement a legal strategy.” Its not evidence of anything other than he settled. Our govt have settled on a number legal cases in similar ways…but state it did not amount to an admission of anything. This is how folk settle these days given the high costs involved in legal matters

              Im sure you’ve made up your mind… I just asked for evidence and only get opinion every-time. Maybe he is maybe not. I really dont know the answer /how it you do?
              • McFlock …

                7 August 2018 at 4:51 pm

                lol

                It’s evidence that he admitted it. There was also the time a… (how would you put it: ‘melanin-enriched person but with no assumptionas about ethnicity or cultural identity’?) person asked him a question in the primaries and he went off into the completely unrelated topic of inner-city crime. That was pretty funny, it was so telling.

                But now you’re asking for certainty when there is still more than enough evidence to make “Trump is a racist” a reasonable working hypothesis.
                • Paul Martinson …

                  7 August 2018 at 5:37 pm

                  McFlock . easily amused it seems

                  this ‘melanin-enriched person seems to reveal more about and how you view/observe people rather than him for sure. What evidence do you have he would have responded differently if the person was not ‘melanin enriched’ whatever you mean by than. Melanin is a pigment of eyes hair and skin btw way.
                  Having watched trump at a rally he was pretty offensive to many diff people for various reasons.
                  hes sees people as useful/not useful, dumb/smart. educated/low iq low energy/high energy, men/woman ….but melanin…hmm thats far more technical.
                  • McFlock …

                    7 August 2018 at 10:58 pm

                    Well, the evidence of his different responses is in when he was asked questions by the other 99% of people who turned up to his little Q&A.
                    Audiences at his events sure had a pretty consistent appearance.
    • Paul Martinson 28.2

      7 August 2018 at 2:27 pm

      ok arkie regarding this statement below
      “As far as your second point, by the same token there is no such thing as ‘black people’ genetically either, but in this society it is very clear that ‘white people’ are ‘the norm’ and are advantaged by this. While race isn’t a genetic thing, the consequences and prejudices of the societal/economic aspects of ‘race’ are apparent and not a ‘nonsense’”

      I would like to challenge you on this in good spirit and hope you can explain.

      you say “it is very clear that ‘white people’ are ‘the norm’ ”
      Tell me what you mean by ‘white people’?
      define precisely how you ascribe someone to the category white in order to reach that conclusion. You will see how impossible it is.
      • arkie 28.2.1

        7 August 2018 at 2:55 pm

        White people is a racial classification specifier, used mostly for people of European descent; depending on context, nationality, and point of view, the term has at times been expanded to encompass certain persons of North African, Middle Eastern, and South Asian descent, persons who are often considered non-white in other contexts. The usage of “white people” or a “white race” for a large group of mainly or exclusively European populations, defined by their light skin among other characteristics and contrasting with “black people”, Amerindians, and other “colored” people or “persons of color” originated in the 17th century. It was only during the 19th century that this vague category was transformed in a quasi-scientific system of race and skin color relations.

        Damn that was impossible.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_people

        Do you dispute this?
        • Paul Martinson 28.2.1.1

          7 August 2018 at 3:18 pm

          thanks for trying Arkie but quoting wikipedia here means you dont know. respectfully ..that’s just gabbled pseudo science nonsense you’ve quoted.
          Here’s some good science. A definitive important genetics paper on the subject. It explains why ‘white is meaningless in any context better than I can. Its a good read. Will change your life perhaps. I should send copy to Genter too.

          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3737365/
          • Paul Martinson 28.2.1.1.1

            7 August 2018 at 3:23 pm

            btw; I really wanted to know how you ascribed people to the category white not how Wikipedia does. How do you decide?. My Maori family members for example have European surnames, lighter skin tone than me {and My dad was Scandinavian}. Are they white people in your mind?
            • arkie 28.2.1.1.1.1

              7 August 2018 at 3:37 pm

              White people isn’t absolute, it depends on context. So my own individual definition of ‘whiteness’ is not important compared to how society defines it.

              I believe you have answered your own question with your mention of Māori, European and Scandinavian. These are races. Which aspects of these races are similar and which are different? You clearly are able to distinguish between them. Race/ethnicity/culture, these are the same thing really, is that psuedoscience? Claiming whiteness is meaningless is counter to reality. It might be meaningless to you, but non-white people are very aware of their non-whiteness.
          • arkie 28.2.1.1.2

            7 August 2018 at 3:38 pm

            Your own paper begins with “Races may exist in humans in a cultural sense”

            it’s that simple.
            • Paul Martinson 28.2.1.1.2.1

              7 August 2018 at 3:58 pm

              Arkie you said “Your own paper begins with “Races may exist in humans in a cultural sense”
              it’s that simple.”

              No its not that simple. You need to read the whole paper which you haven’t obviously. Its like witch craft exists culturally, but are there witches in the world? There are people who practice witchcraft through ignorance and scientific illiteracy. similarly Race concepts in any cultural sense are born of ignorance and to endorse them is plain wrong . Templeton said races ‘may’ exist in a cultural sense but he systematically breaks down any possibility to use them any biological way. All racial assumptions are based in biology, even by you, and that’s why they are meaningless

              you said “I believe you have answered your own question with your mention of Māori, European and Scandinavian. These are races”

              no i was wording it in ways that might enlighten you. These are not races but geographical regions/ancestries . I understand Maori to be a person of Eastern Polynesian ancestry. Geography does not define race just pathways across the planet from African. Please read the paper before commenting.

              I truly hope youve seen my point that you or anyone who defines others as white cannot explain why, other than thought their own prejudiced or prefixed ideas.
              • arkie …

                7 August 2018 at 4:55 pm

                witch craft exists culturally, but are there witches in the world? There are people who practice witchcraft

                what would you call people who practice witchcraft?

                The paper you linked to, and I have read, is about biological race. we have agreed that biological race doesn’t exist in any scientific sense so the paper you linked does not dispute the cultural/social/economic nature of race. To pretend there are not real substantive differences in how people are treated based on societal understanding of race is plain wrong.
                • Paul Martinson …

                  7 August 2018 at 5:53 pm

                  arkie thanks for replying.

                  I call someone who practices witchcraft an idiot and a dangerous ignorant person. They should be reported to the police if they have children and there have been cases of murder in NZ by such folk.

                  thanks for reading the paper now if you still think white people is a valid description..who are these people if they have no biological basis? No answer is there, cultural or not.

                  ps; oh yes discrimination is real and false ideas of race support these crimes/this behaviour. By endorsing any concept of race we all support those who believe we are divided this way. [Ive experienced this myself in a violent assault walking home in Masterton] And Ive seen many similar incidents in town late at night as my studio overlooks a street and pubs.

                  A prominent NZ politician tweeted last election I’m #antiracism and I replied “then teach your followers we do not exist in races, that we are the same with the same shared ancestry” and she blocked me for that.. That woman didn’t like the truth but wanted to feel different and separate from others and this is why the dangerous myth of race persists. Tribalism in humans. Next time you talk about white people ask yourself who do I really mean here. .
                  • Robert Guyton …

                    7 August 2018 at 5:57 pm

                    “I call someone who practices witchcraft an idiot and a dangerous ignorant person.”
                    Smells like Salem around here!
                    You need, Paul, to do some reading on witches, that’s for certain.
                    • arkie …

                      7 August 2018 at 6:04 pm

                      It’s time for me to ride my broom out of here, even with the all the Amanita muscaria in my system, i’ll never be able perceive the alternate reality expounded here.
                    • Robert Guyton …

                      7 August 2018 at 6:13 pm

                      You seem somehow familiar , arkie…
                    • Dennis Frank …

                      7 August 2018 at 6:42 pm

                      I recall how it became briefly fashionable in the nineties for various women of my acquaintance to make themselves an old-fashioned one out of manuka sticks & position it strategically outside the front door as if it were a totem of some kind. Postmodernist irony.

                      Off-thread? No, no. We’re talking about an exercise in witchery, aren’t we? Which witch? Judith Collins…
29. Paul Martinson 29

    7 August 2018 at 3:29 pm

    Arkie ….I recently listened to geneticist explain surprise that her husband whom she said was African American and a “Barack Obama lookalike ” had his DNA ancestry results reveal he was more northern European than she was. In fact he was mostly European./ So what does European mean . Europeans are a genetic admixture of many different populations today and in the past
30. JustMe 30

    7 August 2018 at 7:58 pm

    Surely there are more important matters going on in the world and in Collins’s very electorate than this idiotic excuse of a MP dragging up fake news just to get attention? Fortunately, and happily for those who think Collins is a major joke, the matter back-fired on her to a hugely embarrassing degree.
    And so I say to Collins “Keep up the good work of you suffering from foot in mouth disease. You are doing a wonderful job at demeaning the NZ National Party more so than before. If you ever become Leader of the NZ National Party then we will never take anything you say all that seriously’.
    It is highly likely that within Collins’s very electorate there are NZ children living in poverty. They are part of a low income families. They don’t have regular meals like National MPs have. At the end of the week there is not enough money to even pay the bills.
    But Judith conveniently forgets about them because she is ‘too busy’ harping on and making a complete idiot of herself and National with fake news.
    Way to go Judith. Lets hope at the next election no-one in their sane minds would vote for you. Not whilst you are making a song and dance about fictitious news items.

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