Judith Collins the walking dead

Written By: - Date published: 12:53 pm, May 7th, 2014 - 114 comments
Categories: david cunliffe, grant robertson, john key, Judith Collins, labour, national, russel norman - Tags:

So Colins survived Parliament yesterday.  Some of the papers are talking as if the opposition had a chance yesterday to force Collins’ removal as Minister but this was never going to happen.  Instead Collins managed to get through question time, deflect answers and create the impression that her answers to Parliament were yet again, how shall we say, problematic for her.

Rob Salmond at Polity has prepared an excellent analysis of the timeline for Collins’ China visit and after you read it the overwhelming impression is that a Justice related event was removed from Collins’ draft calendar so that the Oravida visit could be squeezed in.  No doubt further OIAs are flying around.  Interestingly Oravida was one of the sponsors of the Apec Women’s conference where Collins gave her anti corruption speech.  Oravida does seem to have had much involvement in the events that Collins attended.

My overwhelming impression of Parliament yesterday is that the Government’s morale is shot.  John Key’s performance was the worst that I have seen in the house.  The sense of discomfort was palpable.

Yesterday belonged to the opposition.  Bill English could not even use up all his time during the urgent debate on Maurice Williamson’s resignation.

Here is Russel Norman’s question to Key:

Here is Cunliffe’s question to Key:

Here is Robertson’s questions to Collins:

Here is Cunliffe’s speech during the urgent debate on Williamson’s resignation:

And here is Robertson’s speech during that debate.

And for today in Parliament Judith Collins has been spared questions.  It may be that claims of ill health made by Rachel Glucina have made the opposition rethink.  Maybe John Armstrong’s analysis that Collins is now walking dead is correct and some mercy has been shown.  If it was National hunting a Labour Minister I am sure the decision would have been different.

Collins’ acolyte is claiming this as a success of sorts but he should think again.  National’s problem is that its one strength, John Key, is being damaged by what is happening.  And he cannot extract himself.  Because National’s fingerprints are all over what has happened.  Not only are there the donations and the expensive golf game to explain but National President Peter Goodfellow’s Sealord company is in a joint venture with Oravida.  The National links to Oravida are strong and undeniable.

I am sure this issue has not finished yet.

114 comments on “Judith Collins the walking dead ”

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  1. Pascal's bookie 1
    7 May 2014 at 1:12 pm

    The Collins faction is a spent force. Humiliated.

    She went to a journo and threatened, on the record, to start blabbing her ‘recollections’ of private conversations. She then went on twitter daring them to run a story.

    Whaleoil then chimed in declaring that the rule had changed and an all out war was on.

    Within the day she had apologised, and now will be taking a break because she can’t handle twitter.

    The PM wanted her in the house on the days he was there, so she could deal with her own mess.

    Good on the opposition for directing their questions at him today, and forcing him to defend her actions as part of his Cabinet.

    Slater can squeel all he wants, but where is the ar we were promissed? Where is all his dirt? He has none.

    What a right bunch of numpties.

  2. karol 2
    7 May 2014 at 1:18 pm

    When Key announced that Collins would go on leave after Wednesday til next week, I said Key was trying to use Collins as a buffer to keep the heat of him in Q.T. Tuesday & Wednesday.

    Yesterday, Key was on auto-pilot and looked keen to get through QT with as little effort and drama as possible. The aim then to come back strongly mid next week with a focus on the budget.

    So, it doesn’t surprise me that today, the opposition are calling him on it, and turning the QT heat on Key.

  3. amirite 3
    7 May 2014 at 1:22 pm

    Some trivial observations by me: great performance by Cunliffe at question time. Great voice and diction. However, I think he should try not to sound too much like a church preacher when giving a speech. It’s off-putting – JMHO

    • karol 3.1
      7 May 2014 at 1:48 pm

      I think Cunliffe is widening his style of speeches. In the past he has always done the very strong shouty style speeches. It ruins his voice, and is more effective if used selectively.

      Yes, amirite, I noticed when he tried toning it down, he fell into a vicar’s style of ending sentences. Probably the result of all those early years listening to his father. It’s a daughter/son’s tendency to fall back on how our parents talked in some situations.

      I’m surprised micky didn’t mention Normans speech which was also excellent yesterday.

      • lprent 3.1.1
        7 May 2014 at 2:20 pm

        I’m surprised micky didn’t mention Normans speech which was also excellent yesterday.

        micky is partisan Labour, which means that most of his attention will be on Labour’s performances. I can testify how much that happens. Even now when I’ll be party voting for the Greens this election I have to force myself to notice the Greens. Old personal habits die hard.

        Not all of us had your less party orientated approach to politics (just as an example have a look at Chris Trotter’s posts some time – I’m sure he has the same problem).

        I’ve been after some committed Green authors for years to give us more of a balance. But whenever I manage to get one on the site, within a year they disappear offshore or into a role where blogging is incompatible with the site or role rules.

        Just write posts pointing out whatever you want to highlight.

        🙂

        • karol 3.1.1.1
          7 May 2014 at 2:26 pm

          Thanks, Lynn.

          I was thinking of it, but I am trying to put some time into some of my own projects, and, anyway, there’s a load of posts on TS today,

          • lprent 3.1.1.1.1
            7 May 2014 at 4:29 pm

            Yeah, we get days like that. In my case I woke up early early badly early….

            • karol 3.1.1.1.1.1
              7 May 2014 at 4:57 pm

              It suited me not to do a post today as I was attending to some other stuff. I’ll keep in mind to focus on the Greens bit more with future posts. They have been doing some good stuff lately.

      • mickysavage 3.1.2
        7 May 2014 at 2:26 pm

        Sorry Karol. I agree it was excellent. I put in Norman’s question which I thought was also good which is not bad for a died in the wool unapologetic Labour supporter!

  4. Pete George 4
    7 May 2014 at 1:37 pm

    “Yesterday belonged to the opposition.”

    It was a mixed bag from both sides.

    Collins is obviously struggling and some of her behaviour has been far from up to scratch. there’s been plenty said about all that, but she seemed manage the pressure.

    The opposition had some success but also some notable failures. It’s not a good look for senior Labour MPs to be making accusations for which they won’t provide supporting evidence.

    Mallard was kicked out of Parliament yesterday for making an accusation, he’s since said that Collins should prove him wrong. Cunliffe has refused to condemn this approach and he made a weak excuse not to comment. If a Government Minister made false accusations in Parliament I doubt he would say ‘what’s said in the house stays in the house’.

    Robertson made several claims that are debatable, for example:

    Same milk, different friends, different result
    Grant Robertson | 6 May 2014

    There is further evidence Judith Collins’ assistance of Oravida resulted in her husband’s company getting its milk into China, Labour MP Grant Robertson says.

    “Documents show that Oravida had its milk shipment accepted by Chinese border control in December, while milk from the same supplier exported by a different company was rejected.

    The milk supplier Green Valley’s general manager Corrie Den Haring has refuted this claim.

    Corrie Den Haring: It is not the same two litre bottles just simply with a different label. First of all Ruimi Food’s was taking what’s called enriched milk. They were taking flavoured milk, particularly strawberry and chocolate milks as well as standard white milk in various bottled formats.

    Oravida at that stage were simply taking two litre milk with their label on it.

    Some products going to Ruimi Foods in Guangzhou were blocked, and that was through extra testing that was done, namely the strawberry chocolate and calcium milks that actually took longer than the shelf life of the product.

    (Radio NZ)

    Some in Labour seem to have trouble differentiating holding Government to account and making things up to try and score points. That can backfire.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1
      7 May 2014 at 1:42 pm

      🙄

      • Pete George 4.1.1
        7 May 2014 at 1:48 pm

        Yes it is eye rolling, isn’t it. When Labour have National under pressure why do they overstep and make up accusations or don’t do their homework properly?

        If they want to pin inaccuracies on the Government the least they should do is to be accurate themselves.

        Instead this just makes Parliament look like a farce. No wonder politicians are so low in perceptions of trust.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.1.1
          7 May 2014 at 1:56 pm

          🙄

          Says a would-be politician with a reputation for dishonesty.

        • tc 4.1.1.2
          7 May 2014 at 2:09 pm

          You want to look at a farce check out a mirror and think about what perceptions you create with your inane pontifactions, fence sitting and general lack of taking any position of substance and addressing points directly made at you.

          Perceptions are always going to be low with pollys like Dunne, Collins, brownlee, smith, key etc which is what the nats want, smearing everyone along the way.

          Parliament been a farce under Nact and UF awhile now petey.

    • Ant 4.2
      7 May 2014 at 2:16 pm

      You’d have to be a spastic to think yesterday was a mixed bag of winners and losers. National got owned, Collins is spent as a political force.

      • Pete George 4.2.1
        7 May 2014 at 3:00 pm

        Bryce Edwards:

        Inside the House, the general consensus is that the Opposition failed to land any significant blows on Collins during Question Time on Tuesday.

        Fairfax political editor Tracy Watkins sums up proceedings as follows: ‘Whether under orders from Prime Minister John Key not to fan the flames of the Oravida sideshow, or whether she is truly as beaten as her demeanour suggested, Collins was determined to present herself as a small target and deny the Opposition any fireworks’.

        Watkins called an unsubstantiated allegation made in the House by Trevor Mallard under parliamentary privilege that Collins’ family had benefited from Oravida ‘lurid and unsubstantiated allegation…to save the story from turning into one about the Opposition failing to land any punches’ – see When the boot’s on the other foot.

        http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/10016115/When-the-boots-on-the-other-foot
        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11251190

        I’ve seen a number of comments from journalists and others that yesterday was a bit of a fizzer, especially after Labour bragged in advance about dealing to Collins.

        And from reactions I’ve seen today it was more of a fizzer. It seems that Labour are trying to stoke a fire but they’ve run out of wind.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 4.2.1.1
          7 May 2014 at 3:16 pm

          🙄

          Our expectations – as expressed in advance of the exchanges in the House – are that the Opposition will subject Collins to the death of a thousand cuts, not “significant blows”.

          The media were talking up the likelihood of a coup-de-grace. Now they’re complaining that Parliament doesn’t dance to their tune, although I can see that you do.

          • Ant 4.2.1.1.1
            7 May 2014 at 3:47 pm

            The coup de grace was delivered in just showing up, it was a formality and everyone went through the motions because it was so well decided after her Sabin comments, it was never going to be dramatic.

            Now it’s damaging National as much as possible in the aftermath, Collins is done, it’s why the walking dead part is apt, National supporters haven’t realised she’s been bitten and has already turned.

        • mickysavage 4.2.1.2
          7 May 2014 at 3:22 pm

          Have a look at the videos Pete and then say who you came out on top. And I don’t know why the reporters were expecting Collins to self combust. This never happens. And a citation about about your claim Labour said it would deal to Collins is needed.

          The style of questioning gave it away. There was one new bit of information added to the story. This will no doubt continue until Collins resigns as a Minister.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 4.2.1.2.1
            7 May 2014 at 3:37 pm

            The Factmaster is spreading malicious smears again. He needs his own daily post where all his comments can be moved for masochists to read.

            • Pete George 4.2.1.2.1.1
              7 May 2014 at 3:52 pm

              You seem to make a habit of making false accusations. Seems a standard practice of trying to discredit the messenger, but as Robertson and Mallard are finding out, it’s prone to just looking bad for the false accuser.

              Of course they and you could front up with some proof, but that would be out of character.

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                7 May 2014 at 3:56 pm

                🙄

                “Labour bragged in advance about dealing to Collins.”

                You fucking idiot, anyone can scroll up to see you lying.

          • Pete George 4.2.1.2.2
            7 May 2014 at 3:48 pm

            From yesterday morning:

            Collins faces a Labour crushing

            Labour is preparing to go for the jugular when Justice Minister Judith Collins faces the House today.

            …But Labour Leader David Cunliffe said today the released documents showed the situation was serious.

            “What these papers make clear is that it was no chance meeting between the senior Chinese official and the chairman of Oravida and herself,” he said on Breakfast.

            “They sought the meeting weeks before.

            “MFAT was involved in setting it up, MFAT was initially involved in providing an official briefing, and none of that is just another private dinner.”

            Cunliffe said Key’s judgement was lacking.

            “He’s saying the minister is unfit to carry on for five days, yet she’s supposedly going to be in the House today and tomorrow to face questions,” the Labour leader said.

            “If it was purely stress-related, as he’s implying, you’d think she wouldn’t be there.

            “And I think it raises a bigger question that any New Zealander would understand – if any other worker is guilty of lying to the boss, is guilty of lying to the public, they don’t get a $5000 paid holiday for their trouble.”

            Collins will probably be forced to explain to the House why the documents released by MFAT said the purpose of the visit and tour was “to increase the profile” of Oravida.

            Labour MP Grant Robertson said it broke rules governing Cabinet ministers’ conduct because it showed Collins “went out of her way on a taxpayer-funded justice trip to promote her husband’s company”.

            http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10013124/Collins-faces-a-Labour-crushing

            I watched the videos and was underwhelmed. Collins was very subdued. Robertson tried but has failed to provide sufficient evidence – if he had media would be all over it.

            And Mallard resorted to an unsubstantiated attention seeking accusation and got himself chucked out of Parliament, not a good sign for his promotion within Labour on the same day.

            And Cunliffe seems to accept the standard of insufficient proof of his MPs, who seem to have made things up, so his accusations about impropriety directed at Collins and Key look hypocritical.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 4.2.1.2.2.1
              7 May 2014 at 3:53 pm

              🙄

              Yes, your link proves you lied. Not a good look for a representative of an organisation that thrives on integrity and dies in a ditch on you.

              • Pete George …
                7 May 2014 at 4:00 pm

                Your rolling eyes icon is appropriate for you. Another accusation without substantiation. Are you Mallard or do you work in his office? (Rhetorical question, I’m not digging for ID).

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  7 May 2014 at 4:08 pm

                  🙄

                  The substantiation is in this thread, as MS has noted. You are unelectable. This is why.

                  You whine about Mallard and Robertson then fail to back up your own smears, and when called on it you get defensive and aggressive. That’s what I was hoping for, as it helps cement your well-deserved reputation for bad faith and dishonesty. Have a nice day, trash.

                  • Pete George …
                    7 May 2014 at 4:19 pm

                    Very funny and ironic, but you’re a slow learner OAB/Grant/Trevor. If you want to keep attacking you need to actually have some credible ammunition. But being an attack monkey (apology to monkeys) gets a bit obvious pretty quickly.

                    • felix …
                      7 May 2014 at 9:27 pm

                      2 questions Pete:

                      1) what does “OAB/Grant/Trevor” mean?

                      2) are you still planning to back up you claim that Labour bragged about whatever-the-fuck-you-lied-about or are you ready to admit you made it up and apologise?

                    • One Anonymous Bloke …
                      8 May 2014 at 7:08 am

                      😆 Yes Pete, your tormentors are all sitting MPs. You must be someone important.

                    • felix …
                      8 May 2014 at 8:13 am

                      New post on scrittipolitti: Are a bunch of senior Labour MPs secretly being mean to Pete on the nets?

                      Verdict: delusional.

            • mickysavage 4.2.1.2.2.2
              7 May 2014 at 3:56 pm

              I should have expected you would be underwhelmed. I should have factored in your clear bias.

              The comments you made of Cunliffe do not back up your assertion that Labour was going for the jugular. This was the media description, not Labour’s.

              Mallard’s assertion, that the Wong Tung Collins family had received a significant sum from Oravida was I thought perfectly rational. I presume that David Wong Tung is being paid and is not doing it for free. I agree with Rob Salmond that it was not helpful however.

              I really get the feeling that you are not seeing the wood for the trees here and you are comfortable with a Minister of the Crown travelling to a foreign country and using her position to achieve a benefit for a company that donates large money to the National Party and employs her husband.

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                7 May 2014 at 4:00 pm

                Nah, he’s concerned about Labour and just offering strategic advice.

              • Pete George …
                7 May 2014 at 4:02 pm

                MS – you’re making assumptions about what I think about what Collins did on her trip I presume. You either don’t know what I think about it or you’re deliberately misrepresenting me.

            • karol 4.2.1.2.2.3
              7 May 2014 at 5:07 pm

              So a journalist claimed Labour was preparing to go for the jugular? Not the same as Labour saying that’s what was going to happen.

              And some of us said in advance how it would play out – with Collins holding her line for now. See ianmac and my comments here, which includes this quote from Dim Post.

              I doubt Collins is going to get ‘crushed’ in Question Time. She’ll say that she’s been cleared by the Cabinet Office. Robertson and Peters will insist that she’s mislead the House. The Speaker will tell them off for asking ‘political questions’ (If you’ve never watched Parliament’s Question Time with David Carter as Speaker you might think I’m joking there, but no) and threaten to remove them from the chamber. Onto the next question.

              Some of us were pretty sceptical in advance about the way the media was building yesterday’s QT up as a showdown at the OK.

              • Pete George …
                7 May 2014 at 5:21 pm

                Scepticism is very important with media and politicians.

                I’d have thought surprise attacks would be more effective and not telegraphing as much as yesterday.

                The journalist quoted Cunliffe and Robertson which made up a substantial part of the article. “Jugular’ might have been their own term but they seemed to be largely given material.

                Then Robertson claimed a victory this morning:

                @Whaleoil
                No questions to @JudithCollinsMP in the house today…Labour have lost with the nasty party tactics of @TrevorMallard and @grantrobertson1

                @grantrobertson1
                @Whaleoil @TrevorMallard Cameron, the case against your mate has been won- conflict of interest. Question is, why is she still a Minister?

                I don’t credit for winning losing can be claimed by either side on this.

                I hope the Chinese just see it as political crap and keep dealing with our businesses. If we (our politicians) stuff up that market we would be in a lot of trouble no matter what the election result is.

                • karol …
                  7 May 2014 at 5:26 pm

                  It was the media that did all the telegraphing. That was set in motion by other things like events during the break and Friday’s OIA dump, and JC’s attacks on the media..

                  • Tracey …
                    7 May 2014 at 6:00 pm

                    and for pete the most important thing is a country with appalling human rights record still likes us.

                    🙄

                    so much for his wanting to see higher standards from our pollies.

                • karol …
                  7 May 2014 at 5:50 pm

                  There’s more than 2 sides, as Fran O’Sullivan’s column made clear today. There’s tension between the Key and Collins factions, and Key was happy for Collins to be thrown to the opposition this week. The opposition played ball yesterday, then signalled more for today, but switched their focus to Key.

                  Of course, there aren’t as many MSM journos out to attack Key as there are ones keen to see Collins under pressure.

                • tricledrown …
                  8 May 2014 at 1:17 am

                  ,puffery &guile.
                  Pete suffering withdrawl symtoms.
                  Ipredict your 167 votes you picked up last time will dwindle down to a few this time around.

                • Psycho Milt …
                  8 May 2014 at 7:03 am

                  I don’t credit for winning losing can be claimed by either side on this.

                  Labour have conclusively demonstrated that Collins used her position to benefit her husband’s company and that she lied about it on multiple occasions. which makes you sports-commenator gibberish about who’s ‘winning’ or ‘losing’ not only irrelevant but ridiculous. We’re talking about corruption of a Minister of the Crown here, not a game of football.

  5. Lanthanide 5
    7 May 2014 at 1:39 pm

    Given the rumour that she may be ill, the title of this post is not particularly apropos.

    [lprent: I’ve never noticed her being solicitous of the circumstances of the people she attacks. Why should we care? ]

    • Not a PS Staffer 5.1
      7 May 2014 at 2:09 pm

      A rumour spread by……..Collins, via Whale Oil probably, to Glucina the gossip columnist.

      Ms Collins has played the “poor little me” act too many times in the past to be given the benefit of the doubt. She has never given any quarter to others.

    • Tiger Mountain 5.2
      7 May 2014 at 2:23 pm

      My take was ‘dead as a minister’ in this Key government.

      Is it no coincidence that Rachel Glucina comes up with a heart tugging rumour at this point in proceedings? Why not two months or two weeks ago?

      Of course if Judith Collins is in fact seriously ill human decency would kick in from most of us I would like to think, but really to put rumours in perspective it could be claimed that a man was ‘facing a prostate cancer scare’ while awaiting a routine PSA test result if he had Crosby Textor writing the lines.

    • mickysavage 5.3
      7 May 2014 at 2:28 pm

      I borrowed it from John Armstrong in the Herald. I have no knowledge of the state of her health although I am sure she is stressed.

      • Lanthanide 5.3.1
        7 May 2014 at 2:29 pm

        If John Armstrong jumped off a bridge, would you?

        • mickysavage 5.3.1.1
          7 May 2014 at 3:26 pm

          Of course not. My original title was going to be “Judith Collins in Parliament” but after reading it I thought I would use Armstrong’s description.

          In the last few days my posts have been:

          Collins in even more trouble.
          Spin Slater spin.
          Collins is out of control
          Collins crushed

          My perception is that over recent days things have got worse and worse for her and the current title is to reflect this.

        • felix 5.3.1.2
          8 May 2014 at 7:55 am

          If John Armstrong jumped off a bridge, would I what? 😀

          Srsly though, why should anyone let Collins and Slater decide which figures of speech we’re allowed to use?

          Collins isn’t ill. It’s such an obvious lie. They just want everyone to stop asking her questions.

          Why play along?

      • ScottGN 5.3.2
        7 May 2014 at 4:10 pm

        I don’t have any knowledge of her state of health either but it strikes me that the gossip piece (‘cos that’s what Glucina does) is just a bit too cute at this point in the drama. Whatever, she’s about to have a lovely few days of paid leave to get over it all.

    • Lanthanide 5.4
      7 May 2014 at 2:28 pm

      Collins doesn’t care what people think of her or her actions.

      If you don’t care what people think of this site or it’s actions, then I guess there’s no reason to change it from what it is.

      It’s not about offending her, it’s about being unseemly.

    • not Petey 5.5
      7 May 2014 at 2:36 pm

      “[lprent: I’ve never noticed her being solicitous of the circumstances of the people she attacks. Why should we care? ]”

      So as not to come across as a complete cunt ?

    • meconism 5.6
      7 May 2014 at 5:37 pm

      And how do we know she isn’t very well?

      ‘Friends say she (Judith Collins) has also been suffering from a private health scare and the additional worry that comes with that, but Collins is reluctant to discuss it right now. She says more medical tests are due.’ NZ Herald 7.5.14

      A private health scare, but not private enough obviously, because here it is in The Herald.

      ‘Reluctant to discuss it’, presumably because it is ‘private’ and then, her friends also say ‘more medical tests are due.’, for this ‘private health scare’ which lest we forget she is ‘reluctant to discuss.’ How do we know, because it is on the front page of the largest circulation paper in the country.

      Unfuckinbelievable, Just despicable.

      Having said all of that ,I do not wish her ill.

    • TheContrarian 5.7
      7 May 2014 at 6:19 pm

      “[lprent: I’ve never noticed her being solicitous of the circumstances of the people she attacks. Why should we care? ]”

      So as to hold yourself to a higher standard than Collins perhaps?

    • felix 5.8
      7 May 2014 at 9:30 pm

      Ill? Ill my arse.

      She’s fucking sick is what she is.

    • Draco T Bastard 5.9
      7 May 2014 at 9:52 pm

      IMO, I doubt if most people would even make that connection. This is a political blog and the authors, unsurprisingly, make political comments. To me it seems obvious that the author is saying that Collins’ political career is pretty much at an end.

      • Colonial Viper 5.9.1
        8 May 2014 at 8:38 am

        Besides, ALL of us are the walking dead, it’s simply the arrival time which differs…

  6. Will@Welly 6
    7 May 2014 at 1:40 pm

    When Phil Goff called John Key a liar in the first debate back at the 2011 elections, he had him on the ropes. Problem was, the Labour Party strategists never took advantage of that, or expected Key to “bounce back”. Corner the prick, don’t give him any wriggle room, and apply the pressure, and most importantly, make sure your own cupboard is squeaky clean.
    The Nats will be out, digging up dirt, anywhere, trying to take the heat off Key and Collins, but if the opposition can keep a clean sheet, and keep applying the pressure, the man will fold. He has no back bone. Look at Maurice Williamson. Even Mike Williams said he was a mess at the weekend, and the pressure he was under is not as immense as that as Judith or John are under.

  7. Tracey 7
    7 May 2014 at 1:53 pm

    this press release fron john key in 2008 about ministerial standards is no longer available. i tried to find a cached version but no luck. any help gratefully accepted

    http://www.national.org.nz/Article.aspx?ArticleID=28423

    also cabinet ministers are held to the ” highest ethical standards”, which is nothing like ” it wasnt illegal”, is it?

    • karol 7.1
      7 May 2014 at 1:59 pm

      It’s available to me at the link. Also at the url mentioned in the press release, with comments – including one from J. McCready..

      http://johnkey.co.nz/index.php?/archives/445-NEWS-Peters-unacceptable-in-a-National-led-Government.html

    • karol 7.2
      7 May 2014 at 2:02 pm

      Full press release of 27 August 2008

      National Party Leader John Key says Winston Peters would be unacceptable as a Minister in a government led by him unless Mr Peters can provide a credible explanation on the Owen Glenn saga.

      “Labour Party donor Owen Glenn’s letter to the Privileges Committee completely contradicts Winston Peters’ version of events about the substantial $100,000 donation made by Mr Glenn to Mr Peters’ legal costs.

      “Mr Glenn’s letter represents a direct challenge to Mr Peters’ credibility, from the only other person in the world in a position to know the facts.

      “From Parliament’s point of view, the Privileges Committee provides an appropriate vehicle to resolve the points of conflict and to hold individuals to account. But from the Prime Minister’s and the Government’s point of view, that is not enough.

      “Governments and Ministers must enjoy the confidence of the Parliament and, ultimately, the public. Faced with today’s revelations, it is no longer acceptable for Mr Peters to offer bluster and insults where simple, courteous, honest answers are required.

      “It is no longer acceptable or credible for Helen Clark to assert a facade of confidence in her Foreign Affairs Minister and to fail to ask the plain questions of him that she has a duty to the public to ask.

      “Faced with today’s revelations, Helen Clark must stand Mr Peters down as a Minister. That is what I would do if I were Prime Minister. Helen Clark has stood Ministers from Labour down for much less.

      “Unless he can provide a credible explanation about this serious issue, he should be unacceptable to Helen Clark as a Minister in her Labour-led Government.

      “Mr Peters will be unacceptable as a Minister in a government led by me unless he can provide a credible explanation.”

      • Tracey 7.2.1
        7 May 2014 at 2:07 pm

        the documents challenge collins assertion that she dropped in for a cup of tea. yet shes on leave, on full ministerial pay…

        highest ethical standards indeed.

    • Tracey 7.3
      7 May 2014 at 2:05 pm

      thanks karol.

      oh the irony…

  8. Tracey 8
    7 May 2014 at 1:58 pm

    2.52 – 2.54 of the cabinet manual… how does collins behaviour stack up, really?

    http://www.cabinetmanual.cabinetoffice.govt.nz/node/89

    can we have a thread discussing definition of

    highest ethical standards

  9. DV 9
    7 May 2014 at 1:58 pm

    Nope link broken
    Article gone!!

  10. karol 10
    7 May 2014 at 2:10 pm

    And I think it was a misreading of Key’s performance yesterday to say his and his party’s morale was low.

    Compare that with his performance so far today in the House. Yesterday Key just did not want to be too associated with Collins and her struggles.

    • Tracey 10.1
      7 May 2014 at 2:18 pm

      agreed. and to begin prep for the shit throwing of today. he needs 24 hours advance prep for such things… and glasses…

      • karol 10.1.1
        7 May 2014 at 2:34 pm

        And what a nasty, ruthless, competitive side of Key is on display – finger pointing, ignoring standing speaker. His need to be a winner, whatever it takes, will ultimately be his downfall.

  11. veutoviper 11
    7 May 2014 at 2:30 pm

    Mickey

    Interestingly Oravida was one of the sponsors of the Apec Women’s conference where Collins gave her anti corruption speech. Oravida does seem to have had much involvement in the events that Collins attended.

    Being a pedantic person, just for clarification:

    Collins did not give her anti-corruption speech at the APEC Women’s Conference.
    The supposed main purpose of her Oct 2013 trip to China was to attend and address ( i.e. her anti-corruption speech ) the China Executive Leadership Academy Pudong (CELAP), China
    The APEC Women’s Conference was a month later in Nov 2013 again in China, which Collins attended (as did Julia Xu and Jenny Shipley). At that Conference, Collins was involved in a debate – debating in the negative about Aggressive Leaders. Collins, Xu and Shipley attend these APEC conferences regularly.

    I was confused about this back in March when contraversy about the Collins Oravida visits first arose, and I researched these two China visits. More detail is in my two comments at 5.1.2.3 and 5.1.3.1 in OM on 15 March 2014.

    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-16032014/#comment-786780
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-16032014/#comment-786784

    PS – Not meant as a criticism. Just me being pedantic and there has been so much confusion about the “Oravida Tour” over dinners, cups of teas etc that I thought I would clarify that Collins made two different trips to China in Oct and Nov 2013.

    • karol 11.1
      7 May 2014 at 2:36 pm

      debating in the negative about Aggressive Leaders bwhahahaha

    • mickysavage 11.2
      7 May 2014 at 2:52 pm

      Thanks VV I am rechecking my notes. You may be right. Unfortunately the website has changed although I have a printout somewhere which I am double-checking.

      • veutoviper 11.2.1
        7 May 2014 at 2:56 pm

        MS. the links in my OM comments on 15 March provide links to press releases etc re both conferences if that is a help.

        PS – if you click the link in your post to the anti-corruption speech, the speech itself is headed as being to the Pudong Academy.

  12. Tracey 12
    7 May 2014 at 3:31 pm

    politics as usual versus politics for people….

    problem for labour with this slogan is mallard will keep shooting his mouth off with no evidence and turn people off labour as well as national.

  13. aerobubble 13
    7 May 2014 at 3:52 pm

    Collins office changed her agenda, instead of going to a ministrial meeting about justice, she went to a private meeting with a chinese border official. Orivida then got through border control, while its competitors did not. We all know how business is done in China, Chinese want to know who they are working with. But our values say what happened is wrong, as there is clearly a perception.
    The fact she hasn’t resigned, that there’s more, that National MPs are begging Robinson to release, rather than piecemeal. And that the National party news voice, Henry, denied anything had changed means that its a ongoing issue a open sore. I wonder what that poll site says are Collins odds of remaining.

    • Pete George 13.1
      7 May 2014 at 4:22 pm

      “Orivida then got through border control, while its competitors did not. ”

      That’s been challenged and Robertson hasn’t bothered to contest the facts – see Grant Robertson’s ‘same milk’ accusation refuted

      • Tracey 13.1.1
        7 May 2014 at 4:30 pm

        whats not challenged is their border control problems disappeared. the cabinet manual states

        highest ethical standards

        • Pete George 13.1.1.1
          7 May 2014 at 4:50 pm

          Border control ‘problems’ have to ‘disappear’ each shipment. According to what the milk supplier said they have 5-7 days to get product through border control or they have to dump the milk. That presumably applies to every shipment.

          Milk with flavours, colours and additives like calcium added took/take longer to test so there’s always going to be a greater risk of not getting through in time.

          Robertson claimed that the milk from the two companies was the same product, different labels only – “Same milk, different friends, different result”.

          “Oravida’s fresh milk supplier Green Valley Dairies also supplies the same two litre bottles to Guangzhou Ruima Food Limited, simply with a different label.

          “However, Guangzhou Ruima Food’s fresh milk shipment in December was rejected by China’s General Administration of Quality Supervision, Inspection and Quarantine (AQSIQ).

          “Judith Collins’ intervention was designed to benefit Oravida.

          He appears to be wrong about that. Oravida had straight milk. The Ruimi product that had problems had different product, strawberry and chocolate flavoured milk which required more testing than Oravida’s straight milk.

          And there is no proof of “intervention designed to benefit Oravida”. To the contrary:

          Corrie Den Haring:I’m not aware of any favouritism and I don’t see any evidence from the position that Green Valley has in supplying product that the same level of orders were coming through, the same demand was coming through.

          The same level of, one could argue, frustration in and around some of the testing regimes that were being implemented at that stage, and we saw no difference between the two businesses.

          The fact that Ruimi Food had some product rejected was for other reasons other than favouritism that we can see from this end.

          Robertson appears to have been guessing, speculating, making things up, otherwise I presume he would have come up with solid evidence.

    • Tracey 13.2
      7 May 2014 at 4:56 pm

      god, i meant to reply to you, not pete george. i feel so ashamed.

      • Once was Tim 13.2.1
        7 May 2014 at 5:16 pm

        Don’t feel ashamed – you just gave the guy a cheap thrill gratis. Very philanthropic of you :p

  14. Tracey 14
    7 May 2014 at 4:25 pm

    note her answers to robertson, both on the driving around and not knowing there was more than one airport…

    she has lied and the documents are independent evidence of this, no matter what slater and his acolytes say.

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/business/qoa/50HansQ_20140318_00000003/3-justice-minister%E2%80%94statements

  15. veutoviper 15
    7 May 2014 at 4:37 pm

    Warning – Following two links are almost but not quite off topic. Thought some lighter moments were needed.

    Collins’ media skills (well back in March; they may think differently after last Sunday’s Sabin interview

    http://t.co/flurKXAu5Q

    2, Rachel Glucina’s jounalistic aspirations three hours ago on her Twitter account

    “Been talking to ed about going on secondment to the press gallery for a month to expose some political secrets.#watchouttrev ”

    • Tiger Mountain 15.1
      7 May 2014 at 5:21 pm

      “expose”, “political secrets”, oooh scary, who will be looking through the trash for her? who will be her snouts? Rachel would hardly need to move to the capital given her being so embedded already in the tory camp.

      • karol 15.1.1
        7 May 2014 at 5:23 pm

        So the Nats’ smear machine needs a revamp?

        • Sacha 15.1.1.1
          7 May 2014 at 6:44 pm

          Does the gallery accredit PR flunkies anyway? Don’t like her chances.

          • ScottGN 15.1.1.1.1
            7 May 2014 at 6:50 pm

            My thoughts exactly. Don’t really see the Parliamentary Press Gallery team (whatever their other faults) throwing a welcoming party for such a partisan gossip hack.

            • Colonial Viper 15.1.1.1.1.1
              7 May 2014 at 8:40 pm

              Aspiring journalists of her calibre should go work for Truth. Oh dear, Slater and co. destroyed it.

        • veutoviper 15.1.1.2
          7 May 2014 at 7:35 pm

          A revamp or more credibility for one of Key’s vehicles for his ‘top drawer’ leaks? WO is certainly not going to end up in the press gallery.

          But don’t see it happening for the same reasons as Sacha and ScottGN below. From what I have seen on several Press Gallery media people’s Twitter feeds, don’t think she would be welcome. Especially in view of a bit of a tide turn over the last week or so.

          • karol 15.1.1.2.1
            7 May 2014 at 7:40 pm

            Well, i also think the Collins and Key factions are at odds. (See Fran O’Sullivan’s column today). So maybe Key is looking for an alternative smear outlet to WO.

            • veutoviper 15.1.1.2.1.1
              7 May 2014 at 9:08 pm

              Could be, but Glucina and Collins are apparently close friends so that could be problematic for Key.
              Oops – ‘could be’ relates to Key looking for an alternative to WO.

  16. Sanctuary 16
    7 May 2014 at 5:13 pm

    Slater is unhinged at the moment, his attempt to be something by destroying the National Party has been totally neutered. He really is a completely irrelevant loser now.

  17. Bearded Git 17
    7 May 2014 at 5:57 pm

    On Checkpoint (listen at about 5-45) for the second day in a row Key is heard lying to Parliament saying the trail of emails showed the Oravida meeting to always be a private meeting, and for the second day in a row Brent Edwards comes on immediately afterwards to explain the emails show nothing of the sort.

    We all know Key is a serial liar, but this takes the cake.

  18. TheContrarian 18
    7 May 2014 at 6:25 pm

    She’s gotta go. No question

  19. Redzone 19
    7 May 2014 at 9:02 pm

    She’s a lying lame duck and it’s duck shooting season.
    Collins will keep -There’a more mileage yet to go on this.
    Key is defending the undefenable and he clearly looked rattled in the house yesterday. Cunliffe much stronger and measured, and Robertson was vintage.

    I sense a shift. When are the next polls due?

  20. Redzone 20
    7 May 2014 at 9:26 pm

    Ok I now see the latest RM poll posted( that was fast!). The numbers should improve again on this for the left given the past week.

  21. Tender Spot 21
    7 May 2014 at 9:50 pm

    The damage to Collins, Key and National would have been worse had the grandstanding idiot Mallard not taken take the spotlight off them with his stunt, which led the headlines on all the news broadcasts I heard.

    • Bearded Git 21.1
      8 May 2014 at 10:01 am

      Not sure I agree Tender-it brought lots of coverage of the fact that Crusher’s hubby is making serious money at Oravida. There was no denial of this. He could have made public what he earns as a director of Oravida but hasn’t. Mallard is probably right.

  22. tricledrown 22
    8 May 2014 at 12:57 am

    Tender Spot.
    BS now shane Jones has gone Labours support has gone up.
    Mallard is a Natural born attack dog.
    Brilliant TV exposure Collins needed to be taken to task between Mallard and Peters Collins was put through the wringer.

  23. Stuart Munro 23
    8 May 2014 at 4:44 am

    There is probably a good deal of truth in Mallard’s allegation, and it is consistent with the problematic corrupt behaviour which has come to characterise Collins. The public don’t have time to wade through all the shell companies and decide if technically there was weasel room. For them it is enough to know that Collins has financial reasons for acting against our interests which are congruent with the pattern of evasion, dishonesty and aggression she has displayed.

    Key is damned if he does or if he doesn’t rid himself of her – a very good piece of work by the opposition. With the Cabinet Club to establish that Collins’s behaviour is not anomalous but in fact typical of National ministers under Key, a smorgasbord of lines of attack have opened up.

    It is true that none of them need resign, retract or apologise – but by dishonorably defying conventions they only increase public concerns. In the context of their economic non-performance, asset thefts, failure to address the problems of Christchurch, and burgeoning power prices it may be that Key’s trademark smartarse bragadacio is not a wise response. But he’s a one-trick pony and it’s all he’s got.

    • karol 23.1
      8 May 2014 at 6:42 am

      Yes. And the narrative is building and gaining traction in the MSM- narrative of vast inequalities an Nats supporting the priviliged and corporate elite.

  24. North 24
    8 May 2014 at 12:36 pm

    Ha ! The Collins “Mongrel Myth” is dead. Her interface with NZ political life has changed forever. ShonKey Python looks impotent a la he’s the least of wannabe Maggie’s problems. Petey George et al are in the grips of an excruciating cognitive dissonance.

    From a steamy tropical place on the Equator, back to my tan and another coldie please. Jeez I’ll shit to beat Petey George if the madam plonks herself down on the lounger next door !