Labour leadership meeting

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1. Psycho Milt 1

   1 August 2017 at 8:41 am

   On the other hand changing leaders now is an opportunity, it could be the breakthrough that Labour has so far failed to find.

   More like a demonstration of panic and desperation. When was that ever rewarded by voters?
   • r0b 1.1

     1 August 2017 at 8:44 am

     I agree, that’s the risk. The other side of the argument is that what is happening currently doesn’t seem to be rewarded by voters either. Which is a puzzle to me, because the Labour / Green policy settings are so much better for NZ!
     • Pat 1.1.1

       1 August 2017 at 8:49 am

       the campaign proper has not started yet and labour know (knew) what works and should have had some self belief…..personal, face to face engagement in the electorates worked well for them in the recent by elections and theres no reason not to expect so again
     • The Lone Haranguer 1.1.2

       1 August 2017 at 9:12 am

       r0b,

       Does policy really matter to voters tho? I mean matter enough for them to actually get off their bums and go to the booth and vote?

       Im well into my 50s now, and looking back on elections from 1978, it seems that there needs to be this almost mythical “wind of change” thing to be happening to change the government.

       With the exception of the interest free student loans policy, I cant think of anything else POLICY based since 1978 that swung an election from one major party to the other.

       One could argue that the past six elections have all been about the leaders of the parties rather than the substance of their policies

       What policies do you reckon have changed the outcomes of elections?
       • r0b 1.1.2.1

         1 August 2017 at 9:16 am

         Does policy really matter to voters tho?

         Yes, I think it does – though not as much as we might hope.

         Example – the interest free student loans widely credited with winning the 2005 election.
         • The Lone Haranguer 1.1.2.1.1

           1 August 2017 at 9:29 am

           Thats the only policy I can find that could be called an election changer.

           Are there actually any others in the past 25 years?
       • Adrian 1.1.2.2

         1 August 2017 at 9:28 am

         Exactly, LH.
     • JanM 1.1.3

       1 August 2017 at 9:40 am

       Of course they are, but who’s reading them? Most people just seem to listen to the populist journos taking constant potshots at the left and repeat the garbage they hear. I am constantly horrified that even amongst friends who would regard themselves as well educated that this is the case
   • Muttonbird 1.2

     1 August 2017 at 8:46 am

     That the ‘breakthrough’ is about changing leaders speaks volumes on the shallowness of the soft centrist vote in New Zealand. These are the same people who complain Labour has no policy yet they don’t vote on policy, they vote of personality.
     • greywarshark 1.2.1

       1 August 2017 at 1:22 pm

       Muttonbird
       That’s a good point.
   • halfcrown 1.3

     1 August 2017 at 9:00 am

     “More like a demonstration of panic and desperation. When was that ever rewarded by voters?”

     Agree with that.
   • marie 1.4

     1 August 2017 at 9:11 am

     It is never rewarded. And never will be.
   • lprent 1.5

     1 August 2017 at 9:22 am

     This is a pretty damn stupid move by someone. I thought that the Labour MPs had gotten over this particular kind of stupidity. It didn’t work in 1990 and it won’t work now. This whole thing is stupid and whatever political moron came up with this deserves a political death, one that I’ll be happy to assist in later. This after all of that daft caucus crap in 2012/4.

     I’ll wait and have a look at what happens.

     But I am starting to think that it is high time to permanently shift my primary support to a party that actually supports the labour movement without shooting themselves in the foot at every available opportunity. Anyone that doesn’t have such unfocused MPs.

     Greens maybe – at least their membership system seems to keep them focused and on track. Possibly TOP if they survive. Hell – at this point even NZ First is starting to look more rational than Labour MPs.
     • exkiwiforces 1.5.1

       1 August 2017 at 9:50 am

       Yes I agree, it’s really stupid move by some shiny bums who are to lazy, forget what the Labour Party stands for and expects that government will be handed to them etc. If Mr Little is dumped I’m voting NZF, yes I know Winnie might to a deal with the devil (National) so I’ve just got suck it up and hope for the best.
     • Ovid 1.5.2

       1 August 2017 at 9:57 am

       “If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.” – Dwight D. Eisenhower

       That said, in general I think Labour’s heart is in the right place, but its execution leaves something to be desired. For a couple of weeks now I too have been thinking about party-voting Green (for the first time). I’ll see how things firm up as September approaches.
       • exkiwiforces 1.5.2.1

         1 August 2017 at 6:47 pm

         nice quote
2. marty mars 2

   1 August 2017 at 8:43 am

   Oh labour – this is not your finest hour. Foolish people, damage done.
   • r0b 2.1

     1 August 2017 at 8:46 am

     Again I agree, the damage of a leadership scare has been done. Question now is what’s the most productive way forward from here…
     • marty mars 2.1.1

       1 August 2017 at 8:57 am

       Kelvin and Jacinta – ffs what a joke. Panic kills everyone – weak cowards.
     • Keith 2.1.2

       1 August 2017 at 9:04 am

       Start thinking about 2020 is the only productive way forward.

       There is going to be no change of government this time owing largely to the sheer incompetence of Labour more than the brilliance of National.

       And I really feel for Jacinda!

       And short of Labour waking the fuck up and WANTING to WIN, I am on the verge of joining the non voters first time ever as there is no point for me in this election
       • exkiwiforces 2.1.2.1

         1 August 2017 at 6:51 pm

         “Start thinking about 2020 is the only productive way forward”

         Going by the current form guide, I think you might more chance at backing a roughie in this years Melbourne Cup or the New Zealand Cup than the NZ Labour Party atm.
     • Heather Grimwood 2.1.3

       1 August 2017 at 9:51 am

       To Rob at 2.1: The most productive way forward is to applaud Andrew for being honest,and support him completely. That way both his integrity and those of the party are far stronger than any viperish attacks. To ignore the latter so transcending them, seems to me the most certain way for them to lose traction.
   • Sacha 2.2

     1 August 2017 at 8:48 am

     The damage was done yesterday as soon as Little flapped his gums.
     • Gosman 2.2.1

       1 August 2017 at 8:50 am

       Agreed. As soon as he admitted he contemplated stepping down his leadership was broken.
       • WILD KATIPO 2.2.1.1

         1 August 2017 at 9:09 am

         And yet,… we had a recent Prime Minister who just woke up one morning and said … ”Yeah Nah ,… the hell with this , I’m bored”…

         Funny how the newsmedia didn’t pursue the issue… what with Pike River, Operation Burnham… or in fact just why after saying he would go a 4th term if the voting public wanted it…

         Funny , isn’t it.
         • Sam C 2.2.1.1.1

           1 August 2017 at 9:23 am

           Mate, John Key is long gone.

           Your obsession with blaming everything (including Labour’s current shambles) on John Key and the MSM has clouded your judgement.
     • Sanctuary 2.2.2

       1 August 2017 at 9:47 am

       Yup. What possessed Little to “confess” I have no idea, but the minute he did so he was doomed. I don’t agree that a change to Ardern/Davis would be a case of re-arranging the deck chairs though.

       The media clearly love Ardern, She is a soft centrist, and is popular with the media. Unlike Little – portrayed as a dour union man by an MSM that clearly hated him for his union background. Jacinda is unlikely to propose nationalising the mean of production. In fact, she is unlikely to do much at all to change current economic settings. The fact is business and the MSM loathed even the moderate incrementalism of a completely non-threatening Little, and Ardern is much more one of “them”.

       Labour will get a honeymoon with the media with Ardern in charge that’ll be worth 8-10% in the polls.
       • Sacha 2.2.2.1

         1 August 2017 at 9:52 am

         And Davis keeps Nash and the other righties in caucus happy.
3. Ad 3

   1 August 2017 at 8:45 am

   Ardern and Davis.

   Feels like a lower moment than with Cunliffe in the last two weeks of the last election.

   Fucking miserable day.
4. Sacha 4

   1 August 2017 at 8:46 am

   RNZ’s Mei Heron has just nabbed Little as he arrived at Welli airport and reports that he said he would not be stepping down and that the leadership was “a matter for caucus”. In other words, he will need to be removed rather than stepping aside if that’s what his colleagues decide is best for them.

   Link not up yet but will be here: http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport
   • Gosman 4.1

     1 August 2017 at 8:49 am

     That suggests there will be blood on the ground. Not a good look. Or, to be more precise, a worse look than what it is already.
     • Sacha 4.1.1

       1 August 2017 at 8:54 am

       I’d say he will be verbally whipped into meek submission behind closed doors if there’s actually a change.
       • Rosemary McDonald 4.1.1.1

         1 August 2017 at 9:42 am

         Just so the mental picture is close to true….who will be doing the whipping?

         (I’m constructing a cartoon here….flailing tongues, grimaces of agony, cheering/terrorized caucus looking on……)
         • Sacha 4.1.1.1.1

           1 August 2017 at 9:47 am

           Think of the habitual leakers of the right, for a start – Nash, Cosgrove, etc.
     • WILD KATIPO 4.1.2

       1 August 2017 at 9:16 am

       There will be even more blood on the ground if English leads National to another historic defeat , – and then gets replaced by Pullyer Benefit !

       L0L !

       She will be the gift that keeps on giving !
   • Sacha 4.2

     1 August 2017 at 9:15 am

     Mei Heron story link (7 mins): http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/201853104/labour-leader-andrew-little-scoffs-at-idea-of-resignation
5. Ant 5

   1 August 2017 at 8:46 am

   Hope they have some new ideas, because those insipid convoluted policies sucked, not Little.
6. Gosman 6

   1 August 2017 at 8:47 am

   What I find fascinating is yesterday I saw none of this expressed here. Indeed the general view was that the Polls weren’t as bad as all that so there was no need to panic. Now apparently changing the leader AFTER thw campaign naterial has been printed is no big deal.

   [4 month ban for trying to wind up lefties and spinning what the authors and commenters here believe. Just getting in before you really get started for the day Gosman and no need for you to come back before the election or during the post-election negotiations – weka]
   • Sacha 6.1

     1 August 2017 at 8:50 am

     Former party president Mike Williams says caucus were responding to the (worse) UMR poll result before the tv ones came out: http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/201853093/labour-caucus-meets-after-dismal-polls
7. Peroxide Blonde 7

   1 August 2017 at 8:49 am

   Madness.
   Did we learn nothing from 2014?
   Madness.
   Andrew Little is not the problem.
   Madness.
   The problem has been around since 2008.
   Madness
   The Labour problem is the careerists and the Wellington bubble.
   Madness
   Real people are desperate for leadership on housing, working conditions, public services. Stick to the real issues and we will get there.

   Andrew, Stop the Madness and get focused on the Election.
   • Ffloyd 7.1

     1 August 2017 at 9:48 am

     Peroxide Blonde. I ab solutely agree. All of this mess has been carefully orchestrated by media. Attacks from every hack that mistakernly call themselves journalists. G Spinner sounds particularly anxious to keep the negative narrative going. Also a lot of what they are reporting is innacurate. I heard Andrew Little himself tell him(Espine)r that he went to the caucus to get their input. They wanted him to stay. In the
     following news it was’ Andrew Little’ resigning? If he hadn’t done that they would be screaming that Little had not gone to his caucus and given them the courtesy of dialogue. Democratically he did go to caucus for their opinion. Rock and hard place. I think media was incensed because he gazumped them. Spoilt brats.

     I hope like hell he stays on and toughs it out. I don’t think Jacinda is anywhere near ready and Kelvin Davis! Really?

     He should stay, keep away from media, dont worry about Greens dramas, hit the ground running and stay on message. Equality for all. At least that way people will be hearing and discussing Labour Policies because they certainly are not learning anything (unless it is negative) from the main stream media.

     This trial by media has happened to all recent Labour Leaders and it is time for it to stop.Voting Labour if Little stays. Otherwise Meh!
8. Cynical jester 8

   1 August 2017 at 8:50 am

   I don’t think Little can stay on after his comments on sunday. I believe Ardern can get the party up to 30s because she has a personality and popularity he simply doesn’t.

   The biggest problem is he’d be on all the billboards.

   Also labours policy are so meh it’d be like giving her a bag of shit to woo the electorate.
   • Sacha 8.1

     1 August 2017 at 8:53 am

     “The biggest problem is he’d be on all the billboards.”

     They’ll be out in force pasting Kelvin’s mug over his. Great foresight to already have Jacinda’s there. 🙂
   • Peroxide Blonde 8.2

     1 August 2017 at 8:57 am

     …..and we will get ballsy policies from Ardern and Robertson? The “meh” (Tory lite) shite is steered by them.
   • Tamati Tautuhi 8.3

     1 August 2017 at 9:05 am

     Jacindarella will be eaten alive my the media and spat out in little pieces, Andrew Little needs a cup of concrete and some harden up pills ?
     • marty mars 8.3.1

       1 August 2017 at 9:35 am

       Nice lines – kelcinder? Jacinvin?
9. Ovid 9

   1 August 2017 at 8:54 am

   Sigh. All those patient years of discipline in the caucus – putting the lid on leaks and overcoming the image of switching leaders at the drop of a hat: Goff-Shearer-Cunliffe-Little. I think Ardern can claw back some points, but Peters is still going to be the kingmaker.
10. Adrian Thornton 10

    1 August 2017 at 8:56 am

    As I mentioned on open mike earlier, that snake Mike Williams dug a very large knife into Little’s back this morning on RNZ, with friends like these who needs enemies?

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/201853096/andrew-little-s-leadership-hangs-in-the-balance
    • weka 10.1

      1 August 2017 at 9:01 am

      Mike “I agree with you Matthew Hooton” Williams. Election by rumourmongering and power plays. Well done RNZ.
      • Karen 10.1.1

        1 August 2017 at 9:14 am

        Mike Williams is not the insider he pretends to be. He is from the Pagani/Nash/Quin group and I suspect they are behind all of this.
        • Ad 10.1.1.1

          1 August 2017 at 9:34 am

          Mike is a proxy for Helen Clark.

          Helen Clark wants Ardern.

          What I can’t figure out is why Ardern isn’t showing more support for Little when Ardern taking the job now would be a complete hospital pass.

          It’s only the timing being so wrong that tells me Little could still stay, fall on the election result grenade, and exit swiftly stage left for Ardern.

          Ardern’s grab of the safe Mt Albert seat as her ultimate security shield against the Labour tide fully running out makes a whole lot more sense now today.
          • Muttonbird 10.1.1.1.1

            1 August 2017 at 10:04 am

            Helen Clark wants Ardern.

            I think you are making that up because how could you possibly know? You’re as guilty of sowing discord as Williams, Pagani, Nash, and Quin with unfound observations such as these.
      • Anne 10.1.2

        1 August 2017 at 10:14 am

        Election by rumourmongering…

        Weka has got it in one!

        In 2014 they dragged out a con-man called Donghua Liu and got him to lay false claims about Labour. The media sharks fed on it for weeks even after the claims were proven to be false. They demanded Cunliffe’s head on a plate and accusations of supposed criminal offending on the part of Labour was spread from one end of the country to the other. They lost the election.

        I’ve been wondering for 12 months what the political strategy for 2017 was going to be. Now we know. Death by drowning. Create rumours and blow them up out of all proportion to their importance. Example: the Labour intern bullshit. Make a case for gross incompetence when it turns out that one teenage intern stole some wine bottles and was caught, so took his revenge by making up claims that the rest of the interns catagorically said were false… the feeding frenzy was already underway so the media sharks ignored the truth and ran with the blow-up for weeks. In doing so they drowned out publicity around Labour’s excellent and progressive policies. The directive from on high? Make sure the punters never get to see or hear of them.

        Rinse and repeat with the Greens. Example: the Metiria affair… still in progress.

        Drown em… drown em. Dirty Politics 2017 style.
11. Robert Guyton 11

    1 August 2017 at 9:00 am

    I don’t believe Andrew Little will step down and I don’t believe he will be forced to do so by his caucus. He’ll remain as leader and be strengthened by the experience of staring down the fate people here are assigning him. It’s risky to detail one’s belief like this, but others are putting in their 2 cents worth and we’ll know by mid-morning.
    • Muttonbird 11.1

      1 August 2017 at 9:05 am

      That’s my take on it. Hasn’t stopped the right wing media, desperate for a scoop, saying it’s all a done deal though…
      • Robert Guyton 11.1.1

        1 August 2017 at 9:11 am

        Plus, Gosman just copped a 4 month ban here. The day’s shaping up well!
        • Muttonbird 11.1.1.1

          1 August 2017 at 9:17 am

          Same that, and laughed. If Gosman is the voice of the intelligent right wing then god help them.
        • Tamati Tautuhi 11.1.1.2

          1 August 2017 at 9:22 am

          Best news I have heard for a while, irrelevant troll gone.
      • The Lone Haranguer 11.1.2

        1 August 2017 at 9:24 am

        When its your MPs wanting their 30 seconds of media fame, I dont think that laying blame at the feet of the media is completely justified.

        How much better/more fun would it have been if the Labour MPs all agreed that if they saw any media folk coming at them with a mike, they would all say the mantra

        SOUNDS LIKE BULLSHIT TO ME

        It wouldnt take long for the media types to go home defeated. Instead, the MPs have added fuel to the fire.
      • Anne 11.1.3

        1 August 2017 at 10:19 am

        Mine too. Little’s not a quitter. My fear is some of the weaker members of caucus (often the more vocal among them) will lose the plot and panic.
    • Karen 11.2

      1 August 2017 at 9:09 am

      I hope you are right, Robert.

      Little is a poor communicator in media (good in person) and this will have contributed to Labour’s inability to get cut through. However, that is not the reason Labour has dropped in the polls. There is a wider communication problem that is the fault of the campaign team IMO. “A Fresh Approach” is a really poor slogan, and they have really struggled to promote their policies to the wider public.

      I agree that there needs to be a circuit breaker but it needs to be a policy one. It needs to be simple and bold.
      • marie 11.2.1

        1 August 2017 at 9:47 am

        yes……the tax cuts for the top 10% vs spending on health etc is a clear message that should be everywhere.
    • Robert Guyton 11.3

      1 August 2017 at 12:40 pm

      Quite wrong, me.
12. Ad 12

    1 August 2017 at 9:00 am

    Andrew Little has the full support of the union movement last time I heard – and they are the organisational and funding backbone of the Labour Party.

    Why you would want to wrinse Little and the unions together makes no sense unless you are effectively working for the National party and the fucking capitalists.
13. Tamati Tautuhi 13

    1 August 2017 at 9:01 am

    Labour taking the bait again they should have learn’t from the last 3 Elections, Labour is stuffed NZF will take it’s place as the Opposition Party, you heard it 1st on The Standard.
    • Sacha 13.1

      1 August 2017 at 9:17 am

      It’s MMP. There is already more than one opposition party.
14. billmurray 14

    1 August 2017 at 9:02 am

    There is no need for Andrew to go , to get a lift in his leadership and the polls, all Labour need to do is dump the MOU.
    The MOU is a great big bloodsucker on Labours back.
    Labours head office and Andrew seem oblivious.
    • Sacha 14.1

      1 August 2017 at 9:18 am

      Because 2014 went so well without an MOU with the Greens, eh.
15. Sacha 15

    1 August 2017 at 9:04 am

    If this is Labour capitulating and just shoring up its caucus seats, I encourage all principled progressive voters to consider the Greens instead. Send a message.
16. Ad 16

    1 August 2017 at 9:07 am

    “Sources told the Herald late last night Davis, the Maori Development spokesman, was offered the deputy position on a ticket with Ardern.” – Claire Trevett

    Leaks like that from within the caucus and caucus staff show that the political culture that killed off David Cunliffe within Labour continues.

    The main thing that killed our chances last time was not whether we were too radical or not, but simply that we did not appear unified.

    We are not going to be credible in an election unless the shits who knife the Labour leader are turfed out.
    • Cricklewood 16.1

      1 August 2017 at 9:13 am

      That’s it in a nutshell and the damage is now done no matter what happens next.
      • s y d 16.1.1

        1 August 2017 at 9:39 am

        100% agree Ad.
        I actually thought that Andrew Little would be just the right person to put together, and run, a coalition of Lab/Grn/NZF. All that experience of figuring out ways to achieve things that everyone can work with, and looks like the usual suspects in the NZ PLP have looked out for themselves first and foremost.
    • Muttonbird 16.2

      1 August 2017 at 9:15 am

      And they’ll join the long list of supposed leftie commenters who seek to destroy the Labour Party. Phil Quin, Pagani, Trotter, etc.

      If Andrew Little remains leader today will the public sit up and take notice that he is principled and very strong?

      Probably not.
    • savenz 16.3

      1 August 2017 at 9:15 am

      Sounds like the dirty politics we have come to expect. ‘Leaking’ crap and expose’s each election, more fake news and facts.

      Rise above it, don’t be a slave to it, for God’s sake!
      • Louis 16.3.1

        1 August 2017 at 9:24 am

        You and Robert are on to it imo
    • Louis 16.4

      1 August 2017 at 9:23 am

      How do you know the “sources” came from Labour? Trevett could be making shit up for all you know.
      • Ad 16.4.1

        1 August 2017 at 9:29 am

        She has been the go-to for all major leaks coming out of Labour for nearly a decade.
        No-one can prove their sources, but hers have been unerringly accurate for nearly a decade.
        • Louis 16.4.1.1

          1 August 2017 at 9:49 am

          Further down someone posted that the leak was from Mike Williams. If that’s so then the so called leak didn’t come from Labour itself.
      • Tamati Tautuhi 16.4.2

        1 August 2017 at 9:53 am

        …. as she normally does ?
    • weka 16.5

      1 August 2017 at 9:37 am

      I agree Ad, and very disappointing to see that despite the good work Little has done on getting the caucus settled and working together, this shit is still there.

      “We are not going to be credible in an election unless the shits who knife the Labour leader are turfed out.”

      Apparently Cunliffe didn’t have the numbers to do this, and Little took the management, conciliatory place, rather than having a clean out. Hard to see how those people can be dealt with though, especially now.
      • Ad 16.5.1

        1 August 2017 at 9:49 am

        LIttle has been in a most unenviable position within the Labour caucus ever since he arrived:

        – Little does not have the backing of the Ardern-Robertson team who have been gagging for the top two ever since they had a tilt. Nor indeed any of the Wellington-based staff and activists who ruthlessly back Robertson and Ardern and have done so ever since Ardern arrived in Clark’s office.

        – LIttle does not have the backing of Carmel and the P.I. team – Carmel runs her own very self-serving ship.

        – Little does not have the backing of the Maori team, because they cluster around Davis.

        – Little does not have the support of Mallard and Parker and King because he’s not capitalist enough or tough enough.

        – He comes through the middle, supported by exterior players in the unions.

        + He has had a loyal office, but it was rocked by McCarten’s damaging scheme
        + He has good support within the Council, but again the damage from the McCarten scheme has cost Little there.

        Little came in with no major caucus opposition, but no clear patronage either.
        Damn unenviable.
17. billmurray 17

    1 August 2017 at 9:09 am

    If it is true about the Ardern / Davis ticket I predict this will become a disaster.
    IMO Ardern is feather light and a totally unconvincing politician.
    Davis will have no appeal except in the Maori seats which I accept is the reason for his ticket.
18. Muttonbird 18

    1 August 2017 at 9:10 am

    Trevett jumped the gun this morning when the headline read ‘Little to step down’. Now the oily one, realising she didn’t have the scoop, is taking a more circumspect approach, rewriting most of the article.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11897447
    • savenz 18.1

      1 August 2017 at 9:17 am

      Typical, Claire Trevett hates the Labour Party, and it keeps her in a job with MSM.

      Funny though, nothing bad about the National party?

      Tired of paid for copy Trolls in Granny. No wonder they have to give away their newspapers these days and nobody wants to watch TV.
    • dukeofurl 18.2

      1 August 2017 at 9:18 am

      Towards the end of the story
      “Newstalk ZB reports that Andrew Little’s predicted to step down, as senior Labour MPs look for a circuit-breaker.
      That’s according to former Labour party president Mike Williams.

      Theres your ‘source’ there! Not even an MP! Strange that hes quoted by one outlet as the source which then becomes anonymous source in Herald story ,another outlet of NZME.
      • savenz 18.2.1

        1 August 2017 at 9:27 am

        Fake news, don’t fall for it. Just like last week, Winston is going to be PM.
        • The Lone Haranguer 18.2.1.1

          1 August 2017 at 10:19 am

          Savenz, Winston as PM is hardly fake news.

          Depending upon the next 10 days (and a week is a long time in politics apparently) if NZLP dont get a lift in the polls post Little, then I think that Winston will position himself as the experienced voice of reason and the only one with the experience to lead a NZ1 lead government.

          This whole debacle is tailor made for the Peters run for PM.
19. Keith 19

    1 August 2017 at 9:11 am

    Little ended any pretence of leadership when he told the world he has considered quitting. What the fuck was he thinking???

    Game over, thanks for playing.
    • Louis 19.1

      1 August 2017 at 9:30 am

      John key confessed that he thought about quitting long before he did a runner. The media lapped it up and swarmed around him like in a loving embrace.
20. Peroxide Blonde 20

    1 August 2017 at 9:11 am

    “Nash says no idea what’s going to happen and doesn’t know whether the numbers are being done. Says he’s a “simple boy from the provinces”.”

    Bullshit.
    • Siobhan 20.1

      1 August 2017 at 9:57 am

      Nash and Mike Williams have great respect for one another (apart from a small fall out over amalgamation), and today we have ‘just a simple boy from the provinces’ milling around, and Mike Williams announcing as fact Stuart Littles resignation, when everyone else is silent.
      I wonder if they are on the same team…and I don’t mean team Little.
      • In Vino 20.1.1

        1 August 2017 at 1:09 pm

        Siobhan, did you intentionally call Andrew Stuart??
21. savenz 21

    1 August 2017 at 9:12 am

    Absolutely crazy for Andrew Little to go now. Just what the National party and MSM want.

    Now the elections are not about what National as a party has to offer, but more how to smear their opposition leader so that Labour looks dysfunctional and in disarray. That’s the strategy.

    First Phil Goff, Then Cunliffe, now Little????

    Surely Labour should have learnt by now, bowing to the ‘change of leadership’ does not work, it reinforces National as the dominant party.

    They tried again and again to get rid of Corbyn in the UK, he just stuck it out, was called every name under the book, and yet, here today – he’s turned the Labour Party around.

    Andrew Little should not resign and be pressured to do so.

    If you believe in any Labour values of old, it should be fairly obvious that changing leaders and ‘blaming someone’ each election, for the longstanding issues with Labour is counter productive and actually extremely disruptive for the party and for a change of government.
    • Karen 21.1

      1 August 2017 at 9:16 am

      +1
22. Tamati Tautuhi 22

    1 August 2017 at 9:14 am

    Playing right into the Natzis hands if Little wimps out and resigns, Labour will be dogtucker for good ?
    • savenz 22.1

      1 August 2017 at 9:23 am

      Labour might as well throw in the towel now, if they let MSM pressure Little to resign, clearly the guy needs support not constant criticism. Not only that, there is nobody to replace him that will be any better.

      Little could turn around the polls by taking on the under dog role, (like Metiria did with beneficiaries), and turning it around, likewise Labour actually look gracious and not kicking the under dog while he’s down.

      If Labour let an other leader go, this close to the election you might as well put NZ on Trademe with reserve of $1 under National party rule.
23. Adrian Thornton 23

    1 August 2017 at 9:15 am

    Mike Williams on RNZ now, he is such a fucking slime ball, which is probably why he gets on so well with and agrees so readily with Mathew Hooton.

    As I have been advocating all year, every time RNZ drags out Williams for their Monday morning politics from the right and left, we need to barrage RNZ with emails, texts, letters saying that he DOES NOT speak for the left now (if he ever did).
    • Sacha 23.1

      1 August 2017 at 9:22 am

      And now Williams is saying if Little refuses to step down then caucus will let him stay on. Story will be here eventually: http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon
      • Muttonbird 23.1.1

        1 August 2017 at 9:33 am

        That’s a real backdown from Williams. He must feel embarrassed.
        • Sacha 23.1.1.1

          1 August 2017 at 9:51 am

          Not sure it’s an emotion he is familiar with.
      • Sacha 23.1.2

        1 August 2017 at 9:50 am

        Story link: http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/201852981/political-commentators-matthew-hooton-and-stephen-mills
    • marie 23.2

      1 August 2017 at 9:22 am

      The problem is that radio stations like RNZ and Live trot out Mike Williams and Chris Trotter as the left wing commentators. They aren’t left wing and just back up Hooton and co.
      • Tamati Tautuhi 23.2.1

        1 August 2017 at 9:24 am

        National Party stooges and insiders ?
      • Karen 23.2.2

        1 August 2017 at 9:30 am

        And even worse, Josie Pagani.

        I have written many, many emails complaining that these people do not represent the left but to no avail.
        • marie 23.2.2.1

          1 August 2017 at 9:31 am

          agree totally…she is appalling!
    • marie 23.3

      1 August 2017 at 9:23 am

      + 100
    • Sam C 23.4

      1 August 2017 at 9:28 am

      That’s sure to work Adrian. Just rail against and try to shut down the views of anyone you don’t agree with.

      How’s that email/text/letter campaign working out for you?
24. PB 24

    1 August 2017 at 9:17 am

    Davis? Oh my god.
    • marty mars 24.1

      1 August 2017 at 9:44 am

      Exactly – ffs this is a nightmare – that cat ain’t what you think.
25. Delia 25

    1 August 2017 at 9:21 am

    I don’t think it will make much difference who the Leader is, Labour are struggling and shedding votes to NZF and the Greens.
    • savenz 25.1

      1 August 2017 at 9:24 am

      If the polls are correct. Historically, they have been wrong with the rise of Trump, Brexit and Corbyn. This resignation is another fake news story so the pressure is off why we have a Spagetti pizza robot as PM.
26. Muttonbird 26

    1 August 2017 at 9:28 am

    This one from Gower should go to the Broadcasting complaints people. It’s a fake text conversation done by the graphics people at TV3. Gower himself added the bold – he should at least be made to say so.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGDKDU_VwAA6e3k.jpg
    • Louis 26.1

      1 August 2017 at 9:35 am

      Tweeted Twyford yesterday that Gower was trying to get mileage out of a text he had sent.
      • Muttonbird 26.1.1

        1 August 2017 at 9:38 am

        It’s actually very dishonest, but then it is Gower. Seems to be determined to ruin his brand for the sake of a few shock headlines.
        • Louis 26.1.1.1

          1 August 2017 at 9:44 am

          Gower’s brand is one of a toxic National party sycophant. A complaint should be laid.
          • Tamati Tautuhi 26.1.1.1.1

            1 August 2017 at 9:56 am

            The homicidal chipmunk up to his usual tricks “Dirty Politics” ?
27. BM 27

    1 August 2017 at 9:32 am

    If Labour had any sort of strategic nous they should have always been aiming for 2020.

    The Mou was a terrible idea, this election should have been all about rebuilding the Labour brand and just trying to get its party vote stabilised back around 30%.
    Having the Greens sharing the stage is a huge distraction and hasn’t helped at all

    If they stick with Little he will be PM in 2020, by then he’s had 5 years of leadership under his belt, he’ll be experienced and confident while the Labour party will look rock solid and stable.
    National will be done, Peters will be gone, 2020 is the perfect point for a new left government you’re looking at 2-3 terms at least.

    Why caucus would knife the man this close to an election leaves me wondering what’s actually going on?
    • Sam C 27.1

      1 August 2017 at 9:35 am

      Unfortunately for Labour, strategic nous and Clint Smith don’t really go together.
    • savenz 27.2

      1 August 2017 at 9:35 am

      @ BM yes, that must be why Labour and Greens have been polling higher together and able to bet National after the MoU. sarc.
      • Sam C 27.2.1

        1 August 2017 at 9:39 am

        Since when was 24+15 greater than 47?
        • savenz 27.2.1.1

          1 August 2017 at 9:48 am

          I’m talking about previous polls, that have Labour and Greens inching ahead.
        • Tamati Tautuhi 27.2.1.2

          1 August 2017 at 9:57 am

          .. plus NZF = Game Over
    • marty mars 27.3

      1 August 2017 at 9:38 am

      Why why why – so good to see you weeping like a real man over this, concern troll.
      • savenz 27.3.1

        1 August 2017 at 9:49 am

        Yep, I am concerned that a political party in NZ and an oppositions PM can be derailed by fake news. It’s kinda anti democracy, a concept, I am keen to keep in NZ and sadly slipping away.
    • Robert Guyton 27.4

      1 August 2017 at 9:44 am

      Caucus hasn’t and everything leaves you wondering what’s going on, BM.
      • BM 27.4.1

        1 August 2017 at 10:23 am

        You were saying?
28. savenz 28

    1 August 2017 at 9:33 am

    Probably next weeks fake news story is that the Greens are doing a deal with the National party. Oh, wait, they have already run that one a few months ago. Then the story about how the Greens will cause a new election that was one month ago. Predictably Greens went down in polls after the fake stories. Now that Metiria is unexpectedly going up in the polls when setting the talkback alight with her frauds is not working, fake news are back to Labour, and their favourite target, Andrew Little.

    Predictions for fake news for next week, anybody?
    • Ffloyd 28.1

      1 August 2017 at 9:54 am

      Paula Bennet to roll Bill English!! Paula for PM. You heard it here first. Sucks to be you Paddy,Guyon,Mini Mike etc. etc. (Sarc) FAKE NEWS. See how easy it can be.
      • Tamati Tautuhi 28.1.1

        1 August 2017 at 9:58 am

        That would be a real game changer ?
        • savenz 28.1.1.1

          1 August 2017 at 10:05 am

          Bennet rolling English has more credibility than any of the fake news stories from Gower and co about Little!

          Imagine, that, professional beneficiary Bennet running the country – now that is NOT an image that many in the business community and farmers would welcome.

          The business would prefer Little to Bennet, probably even the farmers would prefer Little!
29. Adrian Thornton 29

    1 August 2017 at 9:33 am

    I think it is now obvious ( in my opinion) that Mike Williams either used his comments on RNZ this morning or was himself used to destabilize Little’s position as Labour leader, and thereby force a leadership change.
    Which is looking like it has failed.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/201853096/andrew-little-s-leadership-hangs-in-the-balance
    • savenz 29.1

      1 August 2017 at 9:39 am

      Mike Williams is an idiot. Instead of worrying about Labour leadership, isn’t it about time Labour looked to the main source of their bad press, their so called commentators and insiders?

      Williams being a wimp and Trevett is a Troll. Time to get new spokespeople and denounce their current commentators.
30. millsy 30

    1 August 2017 at 9:33 am

    Labour is screwed no matter what happens.
    • savenz 30.1

      1 August 2017 at 9:39 am

      Is that why Labour and Greens have started polling together higher than National in quite a few instances?

      It’s fake news! The MoU has shown that they can beat National and they are again trying to pretend that Labour and Greens are zero threat.

      Every time MSM talks about National, National start losing in the polls. Solution, just fill the headlines with fake news about Greens (didn’t work) and now Labour, leadership challenges.

      Seriously if Little goes, the MSM can probably fill up the next 2 months with news about Little stepping down and Labour, and make sure that Bill English is protected to get National through another election.

      Don’t fall for it, we are this close to a change of government! The biggest threat to a change of government and a better NZ under Labour and Greens is Little resigning!
31. Louis 31

    1 August 2017 at 9:39 am

    I stand with and support Andrew Little who said HAVE FAITH FIGHT HARD GO FOR IT and that’s what we should do.
32. Cinny 32

    1 August 2017 at 9:46 am

    I’m standing with Andrew he has my full support. Why not use the meeting to release some outstanding policy announcement.

    Hold your ground labour, changing leaders at this stage in the game will only create confusion and the media would blow it out of proportion, like they already are.
    • Tautoko Mangō Mata 32.1

      1 August 2017 at 9:53 am

      Stand your ground, Andrew. It’s time to show Gower, Mike Williams your real strength. Tell Gower to do his job and stop trying to influence elections and to do his job properly.
    • Planet Earth 32.2

      1 August 2017 at 9:57 am

      I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

      Revelation 22:13
    • Ffloyd 32.3

      1 August 2017 at 10:16 am

      Cinny. Me too!
33. Ffloyd 33

    1 August 2017 at 9:50 am

    Why was Bill English called 22% English again? Genuine question.
    • Louis 33.1

      1 August 2017 at 9:52 am

      Not 22%. 2002 Bill led National to its worst election defeat of 20.93%
      • Ffloyd 33.1.1

        1 August 2017 at 10:14 am

        Thanks Louis. couldn’t remember the details.
        • Cinny 33.1.1.1

          1 August 2017 at 1:55 pm

          Ffloyd 😀 Andrew sure did that in a dignified manner, I respect him even more now.

          Now that’s all sorted I’m looking forward to the coming leaders debates, Bill won’t stand a chance against Jacinda.
34. patricia bremner 34

    1 August 2017 at 9:52 am

    I hope Andrew comes out fighting, waves his sword and puts his foot on the neck of the neo liberal dragon.
    This is too important for NZ.
35. savenz 35

    1 August 2017 at 9:56 am

    Clearly the thought of the Greens getting traction and giving a 20% pay rise to those that most need it, has blown the neoliberal’s mind and they are in a fervour of fake news! They will print anything to try to bring down Labour and Greens!

    Labour has a target on their backs – what’s caused it, a possibility that their capitalist model and low wage economy is being derailed, if Labour and Greens get in.
36. marty mars 36

    1 August 2017 at 9:56 am

    My advice for little – fight, vanquish your enemies, refuse to back down, dig deep and fight.
37. Jester 37

    1 August 2017 at 10:00 am

    He’s Gone!

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/07/andrew-little-pulls-out-of-all-media-minutes-before-live-tv-appearance.html
38. Bill Drees 38

    1 August 2017 at 10:01 am

    So….
    Last time it was Cunliffe’s’ fault that the leader was changed shortly before the election!

    It must be Cunliffe’s fault now then.
39. Tamati Tautuhi 39

    1 August 2017 at 10:01 am

    Little needs to grow a pair of gonads and stand up to these patsies like Mike Williams who is basically a waste of space, and a mischief maker neoliberal within Labour.
40. savenz 40

    1 August 2017 at 10:01 am

    Seriously there should be a complaint made against Gower, making up this fake news to influence elections. First Winston being PM last week, now Little resigning.

    They are influencing the polls to push Labour down and then using their own push to make up more outrageous stories.
41. Heather Grimwood 41

    1 August 2017 at 10:02 am

    to Louis at 31: That’s it in a nutshell Louis!
42. mauī 42

    1 August 2017 at 10:03 am

    What the hell is going on. I haven’t been following things that closely the last couple of days, but I hear Stuart Nash on the radio last night trashing the Greens. All he has to do is just shut up for 8 weeks it’s not that hard.

    Then I heard the snippets of the Little interview talking about standing down. Frick you’re a few weeks out from a election, I thought the golden rule of politics was never admit defeat until it’s done and dusted. It’s a bit like an athlete on the eve of the Olympics making a public statement that they’re not sure they’re good enough to be going. Should never ever be done. It’s time to get some fire in the belly and go hard Andy.
    • Ad 42.1

      1 August 2017 at 10:05 am

      Catch up Maui there’s a bit going on.
43. ianmac 43

    1 August 2017 at 10:06 am

    Andrew has announced his step down as Leader. Bugger!
44. Sacha 44

    1 August 2017 at 10:07 am

    Gone. http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/336241/live-little-resigns-as-labour-leader
    • savenz 44.1

      1 August 2017 at 10:09 am

      Just hope it’s not true.
45. savenz 45

    1 August 2017 at 10:08 am

    Maybe we need a “Stand with Little” page! Share bullying stories when others make up fake stories about you on a daily basis and assassinate your character while championing a real bully!
46. Adrian Thornton 46

    1 August 2017 at 10:10 am

    The neoliberal cancer that is killing western Left politics from the inside (except the UK) has claimed yet another scalp…

    TURN LABOUR LEFT!
47. mauī 47

    1 August 2017 at 10:11 am

    Bugger
48. Sam C 48

    1 August 2017 at 10:16 am

    Direct quote from Little : “The campaign is on a good footing, Labour’s caucus is united and the party is healthy”.

    If that’s the case, why resign?
49. Bob 49

    1 August 2017 at 10:19 am

    NZ has always voted with its wallet, and more people have money in their wallets today, & forgotten where they came from.
    Right wing Media Hype is alive and well, with Stephanie Joyce at the helm.
    God bless Democracy !!!
50. mosa 50

    1 August 2017 at 10:19 am

    Little should have gone months ago , he has not and was not firing right from the start and all the people i have talked to over the last two years never rated him highly and he never inspired confidence with the wider public.

    He is a good man and is honest and does care deeply about New Zealanders and supporting them with a decent health service and education opportunities he just could not inspire or motivate people to Labour’s important message and policy.

    Thanks Andrew for the work you have done and your total commitment to a better New Zealand.
51. Ffloyd 51

    1 August 2017 at 10:20 am

    lol. Came across this line in a Morse novel. ‘I read the newspaper avidly. It is my one form of continuous fiction’ (Aneurin Bevan, quoted in The Observer,3 April 1960.)
    Nothings changed then!
52. Bob 52

    1 August 2017 at 10:20 am

    It’s a damm shame that politics has come to this, kicking a man while he’s down & giving a knighthood to a Liar like Key!!! Disgusting behaviour !!
    • Gabby 52.1

      1 August 2017 at 11:26 am

      That’s politics Bob. Both those things.
53. Tautoko Mangō Mata 53

    1 August 2017 at 10:34 am

    Labour- let”s do a Phoenix,
    add drug reform,
    lose the fiscal responsibility straitjacket- no point in running a surplus with a surplus of problems like homelessness, mental health, hospitals, education,
    • greywarshark 53.1

      1 August 2017 at 1:43 pm

      TMM
      Talking about a surplus I just posted an economist talking about a system that would serve us well, not destroy the country. And I think he said it was mad to want a surplus in our situation. Here is the link.

      In the meantime you can listen to economic theory for the rest of this century which will help treat some of our ailments.
      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/201852897/there-s-no-such-thing-as-fair-austerity
54. SY 54

    1 August 2017 at 10:38 am

    I am sorry Labour, but I lost interest in Labour when David Cunliff left the party. I had hoped he would come back to the leader position. To me, he was the only Labour MP intelligent enough to be the Leader since Phil Goff resigned. And I think not supporting Cunliff on the resignation announcement was the single biggest mistake Goff made.
    • Gabby 54.1

      1 August 2017 at 11:25 am

      Unfortunately, superficial stuff matters. Fortunately it’s relatively easy to get right – or less wrong. Don’t pick a leader who is kinda funny lookin. Stick with someone who can answer a question without strangling him/herself. Stay away from the ‘could burst into tears at any moment’ look. Consider the positive impact of an aggressive response to sniggering interviewers.

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