Life imitates art…

50 comments on “Life imitates art… ”

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1. Colonial Viper 1

   7 September 2011 at 8:15 pm

   National’s pick for next Prime Minister.
   • Murray 1.1

     7 September 2011 at 8:29 pm

     Hope so, one of the very few decent Nats in Govt
     • Macro 1.1.1

       7 September 2011 at 8:55 pm

       And just what is your definition of “decent”?
       • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1

         7 September 2011 at 9:05 pm

         Rapes and pillages with both admirable effectiveness and efficiency.
       • Murray 1.1.1.2

         7 September 2011 at 9:09 pm

         in this particular instance, “decent” reflects his understanding of reality. Rail has it’s place e.g. bulk freight, but can and never will have the same positive impact as roading for NZ Industry, Export Sector, Domestic freight needs, public transport long distance etc.
         • millsy 1.1.1.2.1

           8 September 2011 at 7:39 am

           So you want to rip our rail network up then, such as the SOL, NAL, etc..
         • marsman 1.1.1.2.2

           8 September 2011 at 8:19 am

           Murray.You sound the same as Sneaky Steven, spouting the same trucking lobby bullshit.
         • AAMC 1.1.1.2.3

           8 September 2011 at 10:05 am

           That’s interesting Murray, because I was recently reading about the massive investment into rail Warren Buffet was making in the US. I gather he’s a rather shrewd investor so probably sees some future for rail in our energy strangled world.
           • Tigger 1.1.1.2.3.1

             8 September 2011 at 11:17 am

             Murray does have a point. With Power gone Joyce is the only one capable of leading after Key. All eggs, meet basket case.
           • Murray 1.1.1.2.3.2

             8 September 2011 at 8:31 pm

             There’s little comparison. Train crossing thousands of kms of prairie versus train from Picton to Invercargill. Compare apples with apples. Don’t be blinded by political ideology, it’ll only cost the Nation money
             • mik e …

               8 September 2011 at 10:15 pm

               Murray thats why rail is making nearly 10% return on investment could have been 13% but for Nationals stuff up at pike river + Canterbury quake.Better than a lot of private companies especially trucking companies which are heavily subsidized by car users if rail had the same subsidy the number of trucks on the road would go down significantly.Your just another cult victim of Nationals Joyces propaganda from a petrol sniffing petrol head.
               • Murray …

                 9 September 2011 at 7:48 am

                 There are some strange opinions here. I am no Tory supporter but Joyce is one of the few realists they have. My comments were on the roading infrastructure and how it supports Industry and the economy but has been turned into anti-rail and pro-truck. But trucks do punch above their weight and provide the majority of roading expenditure to subsidise cars. Less emotion and more facts would assist your argument
                 • KJT …

                   9 September 2011 at 9:08 am

                   Are you joking.

                   Trucking is heavily subsidised.
                   Cars are not subsidised by trucks. Given the relative effects on the roads it is the other way around.

                   Don’t forget the bit the trucking industry conveniently ignore. All the roads they use that are paid for by rates.

                   Though I think, like roads, Government should provide the infrastructure, the rail network, and allow trucking companies, Fonterra and anyone else to run train sets.
                   You will find many trucking firms become rail advocates.

                   Coastal shipping on the other hand is completely unsubsidised.

                   AND also has to pay for the excessive profit taking from the corporatism of the port companies.
                   • Murray …

                     9 September 2011 at 9:43 am

                     KJT, I await with great anticipation your proof that Trucking is heavily subsidised. Official Govt Dept figures clearly show The Road Transport Industry pays well in excess of their share. It generates $6 billion (3% of GDP) annually, helps drive the Economy , makes up 2.5% of the heavy vehicles on the road but contribute 40% of Govts land transport funding (08/09). They contribute 48% more than cars etc while Aust is 23%, USA 35% and Canada 25%. Where’s the subsidy?
                   • KJT …

                     11 September 2011 at 4:54 am

                     Murray.

                     The statistics you have provided have been pretty well debunked many times.
                     Just lately in the Shipping Gazette.

                     From the most comprehensive report to date. In 2005.

                     http://www.beehive.govt.nz/Documents/Files/STCCS%20Main%20Report.pdf

                     “The ‘social cost recovery’ (i.e. ratio of charges : provider/external costs) is significantly
                     greater for cars than for trucks (whether or not costs include a return on non-recoverable
                     assets)”.

                     Partisans of trucking, like treasury, and the industry themselves, ignore the costs paid by ratepayers, extra costs imposed by trucking such as deeper seal, lose of land to roads, reinforcing bridges, ETS credits and added depreciation, as well as externalities such as fuel costs, accidents, importing trucks and pollution.

                     Like farming, trucking is effectively massively subsidised by the rest of the economy.

                     Why do you think replacing long haul trucks with rail and shipping will help the economy any less is beyound me. The savings in roading and fossil fuel costs alone make it a matter of urgency.
                     Especially given the certainty of a shortage of fossil fuels in future.
         • Andrew 1.1.1.2.4

           8 September 2011 at 12:41 pm

           Murray, can you explain to me what it is about rail, or about New Zealand, that makes rail a good means of long distance passenger transport, domestic freight, exports etc, everywhere in the world EXCEPT New Zealand? Are there some economics or physics laws I don’t know of that don’t apply to us?
           • AAMC 1.1.1.2.4.1

             8 September 2011 at 1:53 pm

             I’ll explain Andrew; these people don’t want to have to sit with “the people”, as evidenced by Paul Holmes’s outrage on Q&A at the prospect of not being able to “drive my car!!!” up Queenstreet in order to avoid the “Aliens” from Star Wars in the central city.
             • Andrew …

               8 September 2011 at 3:05 pm

               Yeah saw that, even thought for a minute that star wars line even beat his “cheeky darkie” comment. Why hasn’t he retired yet?
               • Jum …

                 8 September 2011 at 8:52 pm

                 Andrew, Holmes hasn’t retired yet because he’s too useful to NAct.
         • KJT 1.1.1.2.5

           11 September 2011 at 5:04 am

           Most of our freight transport is, bulk freight.

           One of New Zealand’s problems is that almost all our exports are high volume commodities.
           Imports are mostly low bulk, high value products.
     • Jum 1.1.2

       8 September 2011 at 2:23 pm

       Murray,

       I sniggered a bit at the lookalike of Joyce and cousin. But when I read your comment, I laughed out loud.

       Joyce is the nastiest lying SOBstd that has every been allowed into parliament. Try reading The Hollow Men and then wash your hands in case you catch something off the creme de la creme that inhabit those current seats in cabinet and manipulated, lied and swallowed a few dead fish to get control over New Zealand and New Zealanders’ assets and democratic rights.

       On second thoughts don’t wash your hands.
       • Murray 1.1.2.1

         8 September 2011 at 8:15 pm

         Jum, you do your argument no favours by relying on The Hollow Men. Besides, aren’t all Politicians liars? It’s a necessity in their game. But changes nothing. Without the proper Roading Infrastructure, the economy is seriously hampered. Bike trails, trains , commuter buses are all very fine but don’t invigorate or assist Industry. Labours polling shows they’re long overdue for a huge revamp of it’s direction, policies and personnel and the sooner the better or we’re all stuck with DonKey and his Party
         • Jum 1.1.2.1.1

           8 September 2011 at 8:59 pm

           Murray,

           And you forget that with the way Joyce is loading up the highways it would be quicker to fly the urgent freight. There is absolutely no reason why urgent freight that’s too heavy/bulky for airfreight to be trucked to rail and freighted up.

           Considering Joyce was so excited about using rail for freight early, it’s odd that he and you can’t now see the advantage to a strategic road/rail/express bus system. Rail right up the backbone of New Zealand with trucks acting as arterial delivery is an excellent plan.

           Anyway, what do I care; I just want a decent passenger service for the people who don’t have cars or can’t afford them.

           You people are just so selfish.
           • Murray 1.1.2.1.1.1

             9 September 2011 at 7:55 am

             Good Lord Jum, who are “you” people? If your theory worked, it would be used. But it doesn’t. That’s why Industry put 90% of freight weight on trucks. Let some of the trucking Companies buy into Rail and there will be major changes and a big increase in rail usage and fewer trucks on the roads. But not until. As for your comment about people needing public transport, etc, what was that about? I’ve never said anything contrary to that. Your emotions are ruling your thinking and you’re drifting away from the facts
             • Jum …

               10 September 2011 at 12:21 am

               Murray,

               The rightwing are very quick to accuse others of using emotion. Yet, and please do read The Hollow Men, their tactics are chock full of emotive terms and deliberate manipulation of the New Zealand voter.

               You’re just like Paul Holmes who accuses people of getting emotional about losing jobs and yet he was literally frothing with emotion when he thought he might not be able to drive up Queen Street in Auckland in his car.

               Politicians use emotive terms to push their barrows – the NAct hollow men and their textors are experts at it.

               Tonight in Auckland was a perfect example of a public transport system that was not ready for the world. Not all tourists want to drive in a foreign country. They do, however, want to get around that country efficiently and in a timely manner with some degree of service involved.

               The rail freight business would bring in needed monies to improve all other areas of public transport in New Zealand.

               Whenever moneymen like yourself start spouting about the economics of anything you forget the humanity and the egalitarianism of everything that makes a country one worth living in.

               Money really isn’t everything.
             • KJT …

               11 September 2011 at 5:02 am

               New Zealand, being long and narrow, with most cities, farms and manufacturing close to a central rail, spine, is almost ideal for rail. Many countries run successful rail networks with much less concentrated transport nodes than New Zealand.

               It is also possible, with existing technology, to run the whole rail network on sustainable generation. And manufacture the stock here.

               A huge saving in the current account balance.
   • queenstfarmer 1.2

     7 September 2011 at 8:59 pm

     Would that make him the Fat Controller?
     • Sean 1.2.1

       8 September 2011 at 9:11 am

       Isn’t that Gerry?
   • Brad 1.3

     8 September 2011 at 1:35 pm

     Since when is road and rail mutually exclusive? Perhaps what some of you fail to see is that, practically, NZ has neither the necessary rail infrastructure nor the investment necessary to enable it to get goods to the places that road can. Road and rail can, and should, share a symbiotic relationship.
     • Murray 1.3.1

       8 September 2011 at 8:09 pm

       Exactly Brad, well said. But people allow their Political views to cloud their ability to think. In this instance, Joyce is proving a friend of the Country, albiet an enemy of the rabid Greens and the extreme Left. Rail will NEVER meet the demands of Industry but can play a major roll in it’s own areas of strength
2. Ianupnorth 2

   7 September 2011 at 8:16 pm

   Nice!
3. mickysavage 3

   7 September 2011 at 8:51 pm

   Classic.  I now know why he hates rail so much.
   • Jum 3.1

     8 September 2011 at 9:05 pm

     Micky Savage,

     Yes I remember well those people on radio NZ talking to Mora one afternoon about those horrid people on the trains and all the things that were wrong with them…

     I thought I was in the middle of the comedy To the Manor Born.

     So much for the egalitarian society NZ has continued to be. NOT. I guess we can thank Roger Douglas and the greed of NAct for that.
4. ianmac 4

   7 September 2011 at 10:18 pm

   Remember Joyce is the “brains” behind the ACT revision. And the “mastermind” for National re-election strategy. Snake in the grass.
   • Jeff 4.1

     8 September 2011 at 10:27 am

     In comparison to the Chimp running Labours election strategy, he is a Mastermind
5. Jum 5

   7 September 2011 at 11:22 pm

   Very funny – made my day.Especially the ‘fat controller’ comment from Queenstfarmer.

   Then we have Rodney Hide, lookalike for the criminal spy in Thunderbirds.
6. tc 6

   8 September 2011 at 7:28 am

   It’s muldoons love child in looks and purpose
7. vto 7

   8 September 2011 at 9:15 am

   As I recall it Bulgy ended up in a paddock being used a chicken coop …
8. Hammer 8

   8 September 2011 at 9:17 am

   Don’t you just hate it so much, that all you can do is throw childish name calling at Joyce because he IS efficient and effective.

   Murray got it right – ” Rail has it’s place e.g. bulk freight, but can and never will have the same positive impact as roading for NZ Industry, Export Sector, Domestic freight needs, public transport long distance etc.”

   Comparing Joyce to Thomas The Tank Engine?  Pathetic.
   Keep up the good work Labour – it is obviously working in the polls.
    
   • Lanthanide 8.1

     8 September 2011 at 9:21 am

     “Comparing Joyce to Thomas The Tank Engine?”

     No, he is compared to Bulgy the bus.
   • queenstfarmer 8.2

     8 September 2011 at 9:40 am

     Based on what I’ve seen I think Joyce is fairly efficient and effective, but I’m all for a bit of (harmless) childish name calling. They are politicians after all.
     • tc 8.2.1

       8 September 2011 at 7:22 pm

       Efficient and effective at effing up broadband, transport and higher education like the jackbooted former corporate bully boy he is to line his mates pockets rather than long term economic benefit but hey that’s the national way…..a bullshit future.
   • KJT 8.3

     8 September 2011 at 12:59 pm

     Yeah right. In the not too distant future. When fossil fuel is the same price as gold. If we can obtain it at all.
   • Brad 8.4

     8 September 2011 at 1:50 pm

     Exactly, trucking is responsible for a very large proportion of the transport of goods and rail very little that occurs in this country and the investment that would be required to gain parity and even give rail the dominant position would be massive
   • Luxated 8.5

     8 September 2011 at 5:03 pm

     Keep up the good work Labour – it is obviously working in the polls.

     Labour? Where? The Standard ≠ Labour. I don’t know about Spooky mind you but even so.
9. Jum 9

   8 September 2011 at 2:39 pm

   National sold us out early with giving contracts to trucking not rail.

   The excuse of trucks delivering faster to business does not wash; with a little technological imagination which this government does not have, the trucks and rail could be one and the same. But no, that would mean Joyce’s trucking business buddies would miss out on the huge profits that should have been shared with New Zealanders through greater rail freight income, helping to pay for our health and education needs, etc.
   • tc 9.1

     8 September 2011 at 7:28 pm

     Yup Joyces only play is reward some mates for being in power and do it handsomely so there are options after you give away this political con job that’s been ever so much fun.
10. Murray 10

    8 September 2011 at 8:04 pm

    You’ve all missed the point because of your one-eyed fanatical left wing views. I’m NOT a Nat supporter, they’re the “I’m alright, Jack” Party. But NZ is not a good Rail network Country geographically. There strength will always be non-time sensitive bulk work like coal, non-urgent Containers, wine tanks etc but not overnight, urgent “just – in – time” deliveries. Owens Road and Mainfreight tried to buy into Rail to move up to one third of their freight onto rail by making major changes to scheduling etc. Think before making these idiot remarks
    • Jum 10.1

      8 September 2011 at 9:12 pm

      Murray,

      When will you understand that public transport is indispensable to people who are not able to use vehicles for one reason or another, many of them health or financial ones?

      The idiotology is entirely on behalf of your wonderman Joyce.

      He is deliberately downplaying the interest by passengers and the plain good sense to leave your car at home and take the train, or the bus. In the 1980s Douglas helped Prebble to remove our public transport structure forcing people into private vehicles and gave Joyce one more reason to say that people wanted to use vehicles, not admitting that private vehicles were the only transport left in many areas.

      Your icon Joyce is a manipulative liar.
11. Jum 11

    8 September 2011 at 9:17 pm

    Murray,

    PS Back pre-2008 election there were two Murrays; one of them was neo-NAct and the other was a follower of what mattered to workers and people in general.

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