Mana and Māori Party ‘unification’?

44 comments on “Mana and Māori Party ‘unification’? ”

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1. BM 1

   25 November 2016 at 10:23 am

   Because the Maori party intends to clean sweep the Maori seats and become king maker.

   Maori party will get Key over the line without needing Peters, Act or Dunne.
   • The Chairman 1.1

     25 November 2016 at 10:57 am

     With Morgan lining up to diminish some of Peters support?
     • BM 1.1.1

       25 November 2016 at 11:04 am

       Morgan appeals to those left wing liberals who currently fit between the Greens and Labour.

       I don’t consider baby boomer nationalists to be his target audience.
       • The Chairman 1.1.1.1

         25 November 2016 at 11:10 am

         Baby boomer nationalists are not the only ones who find NZF appealing.

         As shown by Peters Northland win.
         • Cinny 1.1.1.1.1

           25 November 2016 at 11:21 am

           STRONGLY AGREE
       • mauī 1.1.1.2

         25 November 2016 at 11:13 am

         Of course you would think that lol.
         • Akldnut 1.1.1.2.1

           25 November 2016 at 12:38 pm

           “Baby boomer nationalists are not the only ones who find NZF appealing.
           As shown by Peters Northland win.”

           He wouldn’t have even got there without Labours support and Willow Jean towing the party line.
           • The Chairman 1.1.1.2.1.1

             25 November 2016 at 2:09 pm

             That’s questionable. Willow Jean is a nobody compared to Peters.

             And didn’t Peters win come at Nationals expense – ie National voters supporting Peters. Sending the Government a message.

             But it’s interesting that Labour were more willing to accommodate Peters than they were Hone.
             • save nz …

               25 November 2016 at 3:55 pm

               The beat up of Hone and Dotcom did not do any favours for Labour and Greens. They should have remained neutral at best or cautiously supporting. That would have mean’t Natz would have to go hard against Dotcom and Hone and make the Natz look like the bullies… instead it just turned into a total confusion between Labour/Greens/ Mana with all the parties rejecting each other and therefore reinforcing the Natz as being the more united party with policies that nobody seemed to be attacking.
               • The Chairman …

                 25 November 2016 at 4:28 pm

                 Labour could have helped get Laila in.

                 Rumour has it Labour were concerned about Hone and co showing them up to be National lite.

                 Unlike National, that leveraged off having ACT, Labour seemingly don’t want to leverage off the left.

                 The MOU with the Greens only came after Shaw became co leader, signaling a move more to the centre. Moreover, it only runs till the election.

                 Labour, still grappling with themselves and how to utilize MMP.
                 • KJT …

                   25 November 2016 at 10:49 pm

                   It was simpler than that.
                   Hone., Annette Sykes and others in Mana are not part of the old boys club, in National and Labour, that are our interchangeable ruling class.
                 • Chris …

                   25 November 2016 at 10:58 pm

                   Labour could’ve got Hone and Annette in, too. In Waiariki Mana and Labour together got more than Te Ururoa. Cooperation there would’ve got Mana in and kept the Mp out. Triple stuff-up.
                   • The Chairman …

                     26 November 2016 at 12:10 am

                     True.
   • Leftie 1.2

     25 November 2016 at 10:20 pm

     Wasn’t that what the Maori party were saying back in 2014 over cabinet club fundraiser dinners, and that they would take all the Maori seats, but ended up with just 1.

     Key never had Winston Peters in the first place.
   • Leftie 1.3

     26 November 2016 at 9:48 pm

     BM. Wasn’t that what the Maori party were saying last election over cabinet club fundraiser dinners, and in the end, only came out with I seat.

     John key never had Winston Peters to start with.
     • Leftie 1.3.1

       26 November 2016 at 10:50 pm

       Apologies for the double up of comments, still having an occasional issue with posting.
2. marty mars 2

   25 November 2016 at 10:47 am

   I’m waiting and seeing what this may mean if it in fact happens.

   Some points

   – the ties that bind are deeper than other ties
   – new politics that delivers requires new ways of working together
   – who is most afraid of this? that will tell us all something
   – this model of unification is exactly tika – this is how Māori do it – not just the patu but marriage, bringing the whakapapa together, unifying.

   but there are quite a few issues notwithstanding the support this Māori Party have given the slippery snake key and his gnats – it is going to take some convincing especially after the dotcom biz. It is doable, it is tika but whether it is what members of both those entities want is unsure. Māori Party supporters don’t like Hone – he is divisive they say. Mana supporters don’t like Te Ururoa – he is a toady they say.

   Fox and Sykes hold the key to the future of this, as so often in the past, wahine toa did.
   • Clump_AKA Sam 2.1

     25 November 2016 at 11:22 am

     Selecting female candidates dosnt seem like a bad idea
   • weka 2.2

     25 November 2016 at 1:33 pm

     nice one marty.

     I don’t hold out much hope for the MSM, but it would be nice if the commentariat on ts made an attempt to see this from Māori perspectives instead of parsing it through the dominant culture lens.
     • Rosemary McDonald 2.2.1

       25 November 2016 at 4:32 pm

       How does it benefit Maori if the parties supposedly representing Maori interests vote with the Government to pass legislation that removes rights from all in Aotearoa?

       Whichever lens it is viewed through, the Maori Party voting with their National mates on the Part 4 amendment to the Public Health and Disability Act, was a travesty.

       This was after the 2013 Budget where the MP secured $1,2 billion in funding specifically for Maori initiatives. I’d like to see a breakdown of how those $$$ were spent.

       OTOH…because the Regulatory Impact Statement that accompanied the PHDAct amendment was so heavily redacted…whole pages blanked out…we will never know (unless someone breaks ranks and tells the truth) if that particular shitty piece of legislation actually applies to all New Zealanders. I hear on the grapevine that Maori and Pasifika Contracted Disability Providers are still paying resident family members to provide care. (and not through the equally shitty Funded Family Care scheme that is the topic of discussion on the Nation tomorrow.)

       I recall an interview in which Tariana Turia spoke about having to make compromises when sitting at the table with the government. There are compromises…and then there is compromising one’s integrity.

       However one identifies culturally, surely transparency and integrity are universal? The Maori Party has shown they did not sign up for either.
       Harawira, for all his lack of finesse, has shown much more integrity and he would be well advised to steer clear of the Maori Party.
       • Leftie 2.2.1.1

         25 November 2016 at 10:24 pm

         +1 Rosemary McDonald
       • Chris 2.2.1.2

         25 November 2016 at 11:12 pm

         “Harawira, for all his lack of finesse, has shown much more integrity and he would be well advised to steer clear of the Maori Party.”

         It’s because of that integrity that we should wait to see what the deal is. Hone won’t sign up for anything with the Mp that benefits Key. And the Mp might be starting to realise that the so-called gains it gets from being in government aren’t worth it anymore and that it’s time Maori properly united properly.
         • Enough is Enough 2.2.1.2.1

           26 November 2016 at 7:10 am

           Why do you think Maori must unite.

           Why are you grouping all Maori together on the political spectrum?

           Is it not possible for Maori to have differing political opinions like other ethnicities?
           • North 2.2.1.2.1.1

             26 November 2016 at 9:10 am

             Enough is Enough @ 2.2.1.2.1 – “Why do you think Maori must unite.” – Who’s saying ‘MUST’ ?

             “Why are you grouping all Maori together on the
             political spectrum?” – Who’s doing that ?

             “Is it not possible for Maori to have differing political
             opinions like other ethnicities?” – Of course it is. So ?

             As I understand it the consummation would not limit Maori suffrage so there ain’t a problem, right ?
           • Chris 2.2.1.2.1.2

             26 November 2016 at 1:56 pm

             You’re correct. I should’ve referred specifically to the Mp and Mana. That perhaps the Mp is realising that playing Key’s lapdog is too expensive and that they’d be a stronger force for Maori working alongside Mana rather than against it.
       • weka 2.2.1.3

         26 November 2016 at 7:42 am

         My point was that we need to listen to Māori analyses of those issues in order to understand what is happening with the Mp and Mana.

         I recall an interview in which Tariana Turia spoke about having to make compromises when sitting at the table with the government. There are compromises…and then there is compromising one’s integrity.

         Again, isn’t that for Māori to decide?
         • Carolyn_nth 2.2.1.3.1

           26 November 2016 at 8:38 am

           As I recall, the reason Hone split from the Māori Party? ie too much compromising of integrity.

           So it would be interesting and probably fruitful, to hear/read Hone’s reasons for working with the Māori Party now. I haven’t found anything online that really puts forward Harawira’s or the Mana Party explanation for the current moves towards working together.
           • Pasupial 2.2.1.3.1.1

             26 November 2016 at 12:31 pm

             Carolyn_nth
             This (from August 28th) does partly explain why there is suddenly such a rush to iron out the problems between the two parties, when previously talks had gone nowhere. Plus it’s only a year until the next election and tactically speaking if the two parties don’t cooperate, Labour will clean up the Māori electorates again.

             In a speech at the tenth anniversary of his coronation, Maori King Tuheitia has called for the Mana Movement and the Maori Party to work together.

             He said, “If Mana and Maori do something together we’re just about there we’ve got Mana Maori.”

             https://www.maoritelevision.com/news/regional/mana-welcome-calls-work-maori-party

             I put this in a different comment-thread the other day. However, one thing I neglected to point out (because it was obvious to me, but not to the wife when I showed the quote to her, so others might have missed it), was that: “The Mana Māori Movement was a New Zealand political party… founded by Eva Rickard… when Mana Motuhake joined the Alliance… in 1993… deregistered in 2005.”

             https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mana_M%C4%81ori_Movement
             • Carolyn_nth …

               26 November 2016 at 12:47 pm

               Thanks, Pasupial.

               Interesting that the MTV article focuses on a potential collaboration between the Māori and Mana parties, as being largely strategic.

               I found another article from August in which Hone is quoted more at length, and outlines the principles he is considering with respect to any collaboration:

               The King’s call for MANA MAORI”

               “The principle of kotahitanga, of unity, is a core element of MANA’s very existence” said Harawira. “It’s a principle I addressed in my first interview as a MANA MP, it’s a principle I have adhered to in all public comments about working with the Maori Party, and it’s the reason why I was comfortable meeting with the Maori Party President last month to talk about possible arrangements running up to Election 2017”

               “How that rolls out over the next few months is a matter to be addressed by the presidents of both MANA and Maori, but I look forward to seeing what they come up with”

               “I also commend the King for his call to Maori leaders to play “a large part” in resolving issues such as drug abuse, crime, the high prison population, reintegration, poor health, homelessness, poverty and unemployment, and in leading the charge for the preservation of our language and culture.”

               “But building a decent society based on the Treaty of Waitangi and ensuring a “Maori share in New Zealand’s sovereignty by 2025” also means stopping the current government’s agenda of allowing the rich to get richer at the expense of the poor and the dispossessed, and selling off the nation’s assets before we even get a sniff of that sovereignty” said Harawira
         • Rosemary McDonald 2.2.1.3.2

           26 November 2016 at 8:55 am

           “Again, isn’t that for Māori to decide?”

           Maybe I held too high expectations of the Maori Party…back then, when Labour clumsily decided the best way of handling Maori claims to the foreshore and seabed was to prevent them from taking their complaints to court.

           I was cheering Tariana on.

           It never occurred to me for a second that the Maori Party, Tariana Turia especially, would then, five years later vote to pass legislation that would effectively overturn decisions from the HRRT and two courts AND remove the right for those affected to EVER take that Human Rights issue back to the Tribunal and the Courts ever again.

           THEN…deny they voted that way.

           That morning, the morning the Bill was being rushed through the house (I had been sent a copy overnight ) I phoned Tariana’s office at the Beehive to draw their attention to the ramifications of this Bill and beg the MP to refuse to support it. Tariana’s gofer refused to let me get past first base…as I was not representing any ‘official’ disability or carer group. As has happened over the past decade or so, and especially in the disability and carer sector…government, usually the Ministry of Health, have funded various groups…and these are the only groups considered qualified to act as spokespeople. (After battling the system for many years I had already realised that these groups were predominantly interested in maintaining their $$$ from the government and effective advocacy had died. )

           Labour, Greens and New Zealand First all kicked up shit when the Bill was tabled. When the RIS was handed out…there was outrage from those parties….
           http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/informationreleases/ris/pdfs/ris-moh-fcc-may13.pdf

           …have a look at it folks….you don’t, in all conscience, vote for a piece of legislation that removes people’s rights and their right to defend those rights through the courts without being TOTALLY open and transparent.

           But the Maori Party did.

           And coincidentally gained $1.2 billion in the Budget for Maori initiatives…the benefit of which have yet to be seen by those Maori doing it tough.

           Then claimed they didn’t vote for the Bill when challenged in the run up to the next election.

           Of course Maori can decide for themselves. Maori have been dicked around by the leaders, both Maori and non Maori, for too long.

           The fact that the MP lost ground in the last election should indicate that they have lost mana (not “Mana”) and integrity.

           The way the MP conspired with National to shit on New Zealand’s most vulnerable in 2013…and deny they did so…undermines their whole reason for their existence….to defend the the right to defend your rights

           Unless….under the blanked out bits of the RIS there is something writ that protects Maori rights….
   • North 2.3

     25 November 2016 at 5:39 pm

     Hear hear Marty Mars ! Have to say I probably wouldn’t appreciate the stuff of your comment had I not the advantage (and the joy) of living and working in the Mid-North the last 12 years. An urban Aucklander until then I thought ‘whenua’ was a one application noun. Formed my views quite unknowledgable of ahua Maori……..and was thus unwittingly disrespectful really. Still learning and relish doing so.

     Anything that’ll get Hone back is good by me ! ‘Pono’ sums him up in my book. The many people from quite the other side of the demographic/political spectrum who contacted him offering solace after the last election is testament to that.

     We have a way to go yet. I like your ‘wait-and-see’ styles.
3. save nz 3

   25 November 2016 at 4:07 pm

   Personally think that they are too far apart and represent different groups of Maori. The Maori party represents the rich Maori .1% elite – they control the positive media messages. Hone represents the poor and marginalised and the media beat him up all the time.

   I think that next election the person most likely to benefit from the anti establishment voters are Hone. Therefore I think he should stick to his guns, win back his electorate and then bargain with the Maori party or Labour once he’s got the bargaining chips. His main focus should be winning back his electorate.

   If Hone helps the Maori party they are likely to stab him in the back once done with him and go back to supporting the National party for their disgusting policies against the poor which they have done so for a record 3 elections. If propping up the Natz doesn’t describe who they are and what they believe in, what does???
   • indiana 3.1

     25 November 2016 at 4:59 pm

     “Hone represents the poor and marginalised”

     So how did the poor and marginalised benefit from the fat check that Hone accepted from KDC? Sweet FA if you ask anybody.
     • save nz 3.1.1

       25 November 2016 at 5:13 pm

       Keep spreading that discourse, it’s not working anymore. Things have changed in 3 years. Mass surveillance has been shown to be true. Lots of whistle blowers being persecuted..

       The right and left like to blame Dotcom but the truth is, it worked for Mana with the party votes. They doubled them and got a lot more than The Maori Party and ACT. The fuck up was Labour going hard to push Hone out – who know what stupid person came up with that one. And worse they took their eye of the ball with the Natz and turned the process into a circus of the left. Total Fuck up.
       • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1

         25 November 2016 at 6:03 pm

         Having said that Hone should have spent the last 3 months of that cycle campaigning and organising in his electorate, not out on the road all over the country with the Dotcom road show.
         • North 3.1.1.1.1

           25 November 2016 at 8:20 pm

           Yes…….maybe CV. In his heart of hearts Hone might well acknowledge. I don’t know. I only have the benefit of his personal analysis before it was all over. But none are perfect. As you, having insight, would know. In connection with your own behaviour. I said it early, in I admit an over-personal way (and got lashed for it) …….”CV is damaging TS”. Whatever, that’s all in the past. Illusory purity and omnipresence, they’re ugly fuckers CV. We don’t need to go back there.
           • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1.1.1

             25 November 2016 at 8:34 pm

             I hold nothing against you for anything you may have said about me, North. Thanks for your comment.
     • North 3.1.2

       25 November 2016 at 5:55 pm

       Smelly patero from bitter racist fool Indiana. As though he/she gives a rat’s arse about the poor and the marginalised.
     • adam 3.1.3

       25 November 2016 at 6:48 pm

       Got any proof for you slander there indiana? The ‘fat check’ you speak of that is. Put it on the table. Put it on the table or else your just another of the lying racists who pop up on this site on a too regular basis.
       • James 3.1.3.1

         26 November 2016 at 9:04 am

         What was it in his comment that makes him racist Adam?

         I know it’s a term some people like to throw around trying to hurt people they disagree with – but it didn’t make someone actually racist you know.
   • mary_a 3.2

     26 November 2016 at 3:07 pm

     @ save nz (3) … Here here. Agree.

     Somehow I can’t see Hone compromising his principles (and policies), by becoming a patsy of the Natz through joining forces with the Maori Party. He has too much integrity to do so. Besides, he’s the champion of the dispossessed, the downtrodden and the perceived social misfits, while the MP disgracefully dances and sups with the devil (despicable Natz), selling out their own for a few dollars here and there, which doesn’t go to the deserving. Can’t see a marriage forming there somehow.
     • Carolyn_nth 3.2.1

       26 November 2016 at 3:23 pm

       Looks like a collaboration on election strategy in the first. This on RNZ a couple of hours ago:

       http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/318989/maori,-mana-parties-continue-towards-unified-approach

       The two parties are considering not standing against each other in the Māori electorates at next year’s election.

       Mr Harawira said they were not considering a full merger which he said would be a bridge too far.

       He said the parties still had massive policy differences, and there were obstacles to overcome, but they both wanted to find a way to work together for the betterment of their people.
4. North 4

   26 November 2016 at 9:37 am

   Splitting hairs James. Indiana asserted that Hone received a “fat check”. The implication of gross corruption is intended and loud. Unlike you James, Indiana has notable form in extreme right wing classist rave. What is it that fits very neatly with and indeed feeds extreme right wing classist rave ? Racism.

   Consult your heart-of-hearts James. We don’t need to see a KKK membership card to draw reasonable inferences about where Indiana’s at.
5. James 5

   26 November 2016 at 10:55 am

   So you are assuming he’s racist based on other comments leading for you to believe those comments are fed by racism as opposed to him actually saying something racist?

   But thanks for saying that I don’t go off like some right wingers here – I do try and be measured. And polite.

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