Maori unity and aspirations
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- Date published:
7:24 am, September 14th, 2012 - 126 comments
Categories: energy, Maori Issues, water -
Tags: hui, not yours to sell, privatisation, water rights
Yesterday’s national hui on water rights has resulted in the best possible outcome for Maori, a decision to present a unified front in the face of National’s divide and rule tactics. Tracy Watkins at Stuff reports:
Maori speak as one on water rights
A 1000-strong gathering of Maoridom has voted to boycott the Government’s fast-track consultation over asset sales and agreed to a united front on Maori water rights.
In the biggest threat to the Government’s asset sales programme so far, Maori representing some of the country’s biggest and smallest tribes descended on Ngaruawahia’s Turangawaewae Marae for the gathering – a show of strength after the Government rejected a Waitangi Tribunal call for a national hui on water.
The hui, convened by Maoridom’s King Tuheitia, overwhelmingly backed a resolution calling on the Government to halt the sale of power company shares until it had thrashed out a framework recognising Maori proprietary rights in water.
It also backed a resolution for that framework to be agreed before iwi and hapu enter into negotiations with the Crown over their water claims – and warned they could test the case in court if the Government worked around it.
Finally, it agreed that Maori should speak with one voice on the issue – a new body representing Maori interests across the spectrum will be set up to spearhead the negotiations instead.
In related news, “We own the water – Maori King”, and “Ngapuhi lodge claim over wind”. Interesting times for National, as dealing appropriately with these claims is going to enrage their base…
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- Release: Labour to keep lifting worker wages and rightsA re-elected Labour Government will protect hard-fought workers’ rights and keep the momentum on wage growth to lift incomes for all New Zealanders, leader Chris Hipkins announced today. ...2 weeks ago
- New Zealand First Party List 2023New Zealand First is proud to announce the Party List for the upcoming 2023 General Election. We have had a great number of applicants and potential candidates moving through the selection process over the past few months. Our final selection for our list proves we have a wide range ...2 weeks ago
- A National/ACT Government would make life miserable for those already worst offOnly a party vote for the Greens will end poverty. ACT’S welfare policy announced today is as cruel as it gets. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Willis’ resignation call means only one thing – $2 billion more cutsMassive cuts to public service are on the cards as Nicola Willis has promised to resign if she doesn’t deliver tax cuts but is refusing to make the same commitment if she doesn’t raise enough income from her bungled foreign buyer’s tax. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: A faster justice system focused on victimsLabour will help more victims of crime achieve justice faster by introducing a formal class-action regime, modernising consent laws and increasing the use of technology to speed up hearings. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Gaping hole confirmed in National’s tax planA whopping $2.1 billion dollar hole has been confirmed in National’s tax scheme in a new report released today. ...2 weeks ago
- Labour pledges biggest ever increase to training DoctorsLabour will deliver the largest ever increase to the number of doctors trained each year, adding an additional 335 doctors a year to our health workforce from 2027, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins has announced. ...2 weeks ago
- PREFU Exposes Political PromisesToday’s PREFU has some alarming statistics showing an economy deteriorating and the cost of unaffordable government expenditure, mainly in the 2022 and 2023 budgets. Despite this alarming economic and fiscal picture, political parties are making unaffordable promises, talking about a surplus by 2027, or four years time, all of which ...2 weeks ago
- State of books makes clear case for wealth taxThe case for a wealth tax has never been stronger. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Labour pledges free cervical screeningIf re-elected Labour will make cervical screening services free to all women and people with a cervix aged 25 – 69 years, delivering better cancer care for over 1.4 million New Zealanders. ...2 weeks ago
- Chris Hipkins sets out 9 key pledges to New ZealandLabour Leader Chris Hipkins has set out nine key pledges to be achieved in his first full term as Prime Minister. ...2 weeks ago
- Te Whānau a Apanui and the Crown initial Deed of Settlement I Kua waitohua e Te Whānau a Apanui me...
Māori: Kua waitohua e Te Whānau a Apanui me te Karauna te Whakaaetanga Whakataunga Kua waitohua e Te Whānau a Apanui me te Karauna i tētahi Whakaaetanga Whakataunga hei whakamihi i ō rātou tāhuhu kerēme Tiriti o Waitangi. E tekau mā rua ngā hapū o roto mai o Te Whānau ...1 day ago - Plan for 3,000 more public homes by 2025 – regions set to benefitRegions around the country will get significant boosts of public housing in the next two years, as outlined in the latest public housing plan update, released by the Housing Minister, Dr Megan Woods. “We’re delivering the most public homes each year since the Nash government of the 1950s with one ...3 days ago
- Immigration settings updatesJudicial warrant process for out-of-hours compliance visits 2023/24 Recognised Seasonal Employer cap increased by 500 Additional roles for Construction and Infrastructure Sector Agreement More roles added to Green List Three-month extension for onshore Recovery Visa holders The Government has confirmed a number of updates to immigration settings as part of ...4 days ago
- Poroporoaki: Tā Patrick (Patu) Wahanga HohepaTangi ngunguru ana ngā tai ki te wahapū o Hokianga Whakapau Karakia. Tārehu ana ngā pae maunga ki Te Puna o te Ao Marama. Korihi tangi ana ngā manu, kua hinga he kauri nui ki te Wao Nui o Tāne. He Toa. He Pou. He Ahorangi. E papaki tū ana ...5 days ago
- Renewable energy fund to support community resilience40 solar energy systems on community buildings in regions affected by Cyclone Gabrielle and other severe weather events Virtual capability-building hub to support community organisations get projects off the ground Boost for community-level renewable energy projects across the country At least 40 community buildings used to support the emergency response ...5 days ago
- COVID-19 funding returned to GovernmentThe lifting of COVID-19 isolation and mask mandates in August has resulted in a return of almost $50m in savings and recovered contingencies, Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall announced today. Following the revocation of mandates and isolation, specialised COVID-19 telehealth and alternative isolation accommodation are among the operational elements ...5 days ago
- Appointment of District Court JudgeSusie Houghton of Auckland has been appointed as a new District Court Judge, to serve on the Family Court, Attorney-General David Parker said today. Judge Houghton has acted as a lawyer for child for more than 20 years. She has acted on matters relating to the Hague Convention, an international ...5 days ago
- Government invests further in Central Hawke’s Bay resilienceThe Government has today confirmed $2.5 million to fund a replace and upgrade a stopbank to protect the Waipawa Drinking Water Treatment Plant. “As a result of Cyclone Gabrielle, the original stopbank protecting the Waipawa Drinking Water Treatment Plant was destroyed. The plant was operational within 6 weeks of the ...6 days ago
- Govt boost for Hawke’s Bay cyclone waste clean-upAnother $2.1 million to boost capacity to deal with waste left in Cyclone Gabrielle’s wake. Funds for Hastings District Council, Phoenix Contracting and Hog Fuel NZ to increase local waste-processing infrastructure. The Government is beefing up Hawke’s Bay’s Cyclone Gabrielle clean-up capacity with more support dealing with the massive amount ...6 days ago
- Taupō Supercars revs up with Government supportThe future of Supercars events in New Zealand has been secured with new Government support. The Government is getting engines started through the Major Events Fund, a special fund to support high profile events in New Zealand that provide long-term economic, social and cultural benefits. “The Repco Supercars Championship is ...6 days ago
- There is no recession in NZ, economy grows nearly 1 percent in June quarterThe economy has turned a corner with confirmation today New Zealand never was in recession and stronger than expected growth in the June quarter, Finance Minister Grant Robertson said. “The New Zealand economy is doing better than expected,” Grant Robertson said. “It’s continuing to grow, with the latest figures showing ...6 days ago
- Highest legal protection for New Zealand’s largest freshwater springsThe Government has accepted the Environment Court’s recommendation to give special legal protection to New Zealand’s largest freshwater springs, Te Waikoropupū Springs (also known as Pupū Springs), Environment Minister David Parker announced today. “Te Waikoropupū Springs, near Takaka in Golden Bay, have the second clearest water in New Zealand after ...6 days ago
- More support for victims of migrant exploitationTemporary package of funding for accommodation and essential living support for victims of migrant exploitation Exploited migrant workers able to apply for a further Migrant Exploitation Protection Visa (MEPV), giving people more time to find a job Free job search assistance to get people back into work Use of 90-day ...7 days ago
- Strong export boost as NZ economy turns cornerAn export boost is supporting New Zealand’s economy to grow, adding to signs that the economy has turned a corner and is on a stronger footing as we rebuild from Cyclone Gabrielle and lock in the benefits of multiple new trade deals, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. “The economy is ...1 week ago
- Funding approved for flood resilience work in Te KarakaThe Government has approved $15 million to raise about 200 homes at risk of future flooding. More than half of this is expected to be spent in the Tairāwhiti settlement of Te Karaka, lifting about 100 homes there. “Te Karaka was badly hit during Cyclone Gabrielle when the Waipāoa River ...1 week ago
- Further business support for cyclone-affected regionsThe Government is helping businesses recover from Cyclone Gabrielle and attract more people back into their regions. “Cyclone Gabrielle has caused considerable damage across North Island regions with impacts continuing to be felt by businesses and communities,” Economic Development Minister Barbara Edmonds said. “Building on our earlier business support, this ...1 week ago
- New maintenance facility at Burnham Military Camp underwayDefence Minister Andrew Little has turned the first sod to start construction of a new Maintenance Support Facility (MSF) at Burnham Military Camp today. “This new state-of-art facility replaces Second World War-era buildings and will enable our Defence Force to better maintain and repair equipment,” Andrew Little said. “This Government ...1 week ago
- Foreign Minister to attend United Nations General AssemblyForeign Minister Nanaia Mahuta will represent New Zealand at the 78th Session of the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) in New York this week, before visiting Washington DC for further Pacific focussed meetings. Nanaia Mahuta will be in New York from Wednesday 20 September, and will participate in UNGA leaders ...1 week ago
- Midwives’ pay equity offer reachedAround 1,700 Te Whatu Ora employed midwives and maternity care assistants will soon vote on a proposed pay equity settlement agreed by Te Whatu Ora, the Midwifery Employee Representation and Advisory Service (MERAS) and New Zealand Nurses Association (NZNO), Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall announced today. “Addressing historical pay ...2 weeks ago
- New Zealand provides support to MoroccoAotearoa New Zealand will provide humanitarian support to those affected by last week’s earthquake in Morocco, Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta announced today. “We are making a contribution of $1 million to the International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies (IFRC) to help meet humanitarian needs,” Nanaia Mahuta said. ...2 weeks ago
- Government invests in West Coast’s roading resilienceThe Government is investing over $22 million across 18 projects to improve the resilience of roads in the West Coast that have been affected by recent extreme weather, Prime Minister Chris Hipkins confirmed today. A dedicated Transport Resilience Fund has been established for early preventative works to protect the state ...2 weeks ago
- Government invests in Greymouth’s futureThe Government has today confirmed a $2 million grant towards the regeneration of Greymouth’s CBD with construction of a new two-level commercial and public facility. “It will include a visitor facility centred around a new library. Additionally, it will include retail outlets on the ground floor, and both outdoor and ...2 weeks ago
- Nanaia Mahuta to attend PIF Foreign Ministers’ MeetingForeign Minister Nanaia Mahuta will attend the Pacific Islands Forum (PIF) Foreign Ministers’ Meeting, in Suva, Fiji alongside New Zealand’s regional counterparts. “Aotearoa New Zealand is deeply committed to working with our pacific whanau to strengthen our cooperation, and share ways to combat the challenges facing the Blue Pacific Continent,” ...2 weeks ago
- PREFU shows no recession, growing economy, more jobs and wages ahead of inflationEconomy to grow 2.6 percent on average over forecast period Treasury not forecasting a recession Inflation to return to the 1-3 percent target band next year Wages set to grow 4.8 percent a year over forecast period Unemployment to peak below the long-term average Fiscal Rules met - Net debt ...2 weeks ago
- New cancer centre opens in ChristchurchPrime Minister Chris Hipkins and Minister of Health Dr Ayesha Verrall proudly opened the Canterbury Cancer Centre in Christchurch today. The new facility is the first of its kind and was built with $6.5 million of funding from the Government’s Infrastructure Reference Group scheme for shovel-ready projects allocated in 2020. ...2 weeks ago
- Government invests in top of the south’s roading resilience$12 million to improve the resilience of roads in the Nelson, Marlborough and Tasman regions Hope Bypass earmarked in draft Government Policy Statement on land transport $127 million invested in the top of the south’s roads since flooding in 2021 and 2022 The Government is investing over $12 million to ...2 weeks ago
- New Zealanders continue to support the revitalisation of te reo as we celebrate Te Wiki o te Reo Mā...Ko tēnei te wiki e whakanui ana i tō tātou reo rangatira. Ko te wā tuku reo Māori, e whakanuia tahitia ai te reo ahakoa kei hea ake tēnā me tēnā o tātou, ka tū ā te Rātū te 14 o Mahuru, ā te 12 o ngā hāora i te ahiahi. ...2 weeks ago
- New Wildlife Act to better protect native speciesThe 70-year-old Wildlife Act will be replaced with modern, fit-for-purpose legislation to better protect native species and improve biodiversity, Minister of Conservation Willow-Jean Prime has announced. “New species legislation is urgently needed to address New Zealand’s biodiversity crisis,” Willow-Jean Prime said. “More than 4,000 of our native species are currently ...3 weeks ago
- Further safety initiatives for Auckland City CentreCentral and Local Government are today announcing a range of new measures to tackle low-level crime and anti-social behaviour in the Auckland CBD to complement Police scaling up their presence in the area. “Police have an important role to play in preventing and responding to crime, but there is more ...3 weeks ago
- Govt confirms additional support for Enabling Good LivesThe Government has confirmed $73.7 million over the next four years and a further $40.5m in outyears to continue to transform the disability support system, Minister for Disability Issues Priyanca Radhakrishnan has announced. “The Enabling Good Lives (EGL) approach is a framework which guides positive change for disabled people, ...3 weeks ago
- New Zealand gets AAA credit rating from S&PStandard and Poor’s is the latest independent credit rating agency to endorse the Government’s economic management in the face of a deteriorating global economy. S&P affirmed New Zealand’s long term local currency rating at AAA and foreign currency rating at AA+ with a stable outlook. It follows Fitch affirming New ...3 weeks ago
- Appointment of Environment Court JudgeChristchurch barrister Kelvin Reid has been appointed as a Judge of the Environment Court and the District Court, Attorney-General David Parker announced today. Mr Reid has extensive experience in Resource Management Act issues, including water quality throughout the South Island. He was appointed to the Technical Advisory Group advising the ...3 weeks ago
- NZ’s biggest ever emissions reduction project hits milestoneNew Zealand is on track to have greener steel as soon as 2026 with New Zealand Steel’s electric arc furnace project reaching a major milestone today. The Government announced a conditional partnership with New Zealand Steel in May to deliver the country’s largest emissions reduction project to date. Half of ...3 weeks ago
- Fiscal plans fly as overseas voting opens
Everything the Labour Party has promised it can pay for with some left over, it says, but National has dubbed the notion a fantasy The Labour Party has released its fiscal plan showing how its election promises and the ongoing cost pressures in the public sector would fit within Budget allowances. Finance spokesperson ...60 mins ago - Ruapehu has had a great ski season – but we need to reimagine the future of NZ’s iconic volcano
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Holly Thorpe, Professor in Sociology of Sport and Gender, University of Waikato As a former competitive snowboarder and instructor, and later a researcher of snow sports, I’ve been lucky to enjoy ski resorts around the world. But nothing compares to Mount Ruapehu ...1 hour ago - Election 2023: What you need to know before voting
Explainer - On 2 October, early voting will begin for the general election that will decide who will govern the country for the next three years. So let's take a look at the nuts and bolts of casting a vote. ...1 hour ago - Hackers offer stolen Auckland Transport data for sale on dark web
Customer and financial data 'not compromised', city's transport agency believes Auckland Transport confirms hackers have made good on their threat to offer up the transport agency’s stolen data on the dark web. Roger Jones, the executive general manager for business technology, and his team were monitoring the threat overnight, after a group ...1 hour ago - Politics Of Benefit Sanctions Cruel And Dishonest
Benefit advocate and Welfare Expert Advisory Group member Kay Brereton is calling for some basic facts and empathy from political parties looking to fish for votes with beneficiary bashing. Brereton says the call to put sanctions on people on benefits ...2 hours ago - Hipkins Completely Misunderstands His Own Party’s GST CostingsChris Hipkins’ claim this morning that Labour’s costings for removal of GST off fruit and veg account for behavioural changes are completely untrue. Responding to Mr Hipkins’ attacks on the Union, spokesman Jordan Williams said: “We couldn’t ...2 hours ago
- Demise of CSU news journalism course was ‘greatly exaggerated’A Charles Sturt University journalism academic says the evolving communication course at his institution in Australia continues to feed the ranks of the irrepressible “Mitchell Mafia’”. Jock Cheetham, senior lecturer in news and media in the Charles Sturt School of Information and Communication Studies in Bathurst, said recent “news” ...2 hours ago
- Overseas voting opens, campaign encourages Kiwis in Australia to voteAbout 78,000 enrolled voters have an overseas address, the Electoral Commission says. ...2 hours ago
- New poll: Labour maintains lead in Te Tai Tonga, albeit a shrinking one
Te Tai Tonga, the largest of the 71 electorates, and encompassing the entire South Island, Stewart Island, the Chatham Islands, all the islands in the Southern Ocean, as well as a large part of Wellington City, has been held by incumbent Labour MP Rino Tirikatene for 12 years. And according ...2 hours ago - Election 2023: National announces 300 more frontline police to tackle inner-city crimeCiting an escalation in crime in CBD areas, National has announced it would increase the number of frontline police officers focused on inner-city crime, if elected. ...2 hours ago
- Shop the fit: Winston PetersThis week in our campaign style series, Winston Peters is the king of snot-less pocket squares and bringing things back from the depths of his wardrobe. Not many encyclopaedic entries include politicians’ personal style, choosing instead things like biography, policies, speeches and ideological alignments. But in Te Ara, the official ...2 hours ago
- The Vested Interests Shaping National Party PoliciesAs the National Party gets closer to government, lobbyists and business interests will be lining up for influence and to get policies adopted. It’s therefore in the public interest to have much more scrutiny and transparency about potential conflicts ...2 hours ago
- Younger Voters And Aucklanders Most Likely To Consider Voting Women’s Rights Party This ElectionNearly half of voters aged 18-39 [49%] said, in a Curia Poll, they would consider giving the Women’s Rights Party their party vote in the upcoming Election. In a poll conducted by Curia Market Research commissioned by the Women’s Rights ...3 hours ago
- Cold weather doesn’t stop regional democracyIt’s a cold and blustery day here in the central Hawke’s Bay and I’ve just pulled into a local cafe for a coffee and some food (I now understand why being on the road like our political leaders encourages you to eat a very pastry-heavy diet). I’m here to spend ...3 hours ago
- Media Led Into Incorrectly Crediting Firearm RegistryMedia have once again been led into incorrect reporting on the firearm registry, this time repeating claims that the new firearms registry enabled identification of a firearm on-seller, even though the data had been collected separately by Police ...3 hours ago
- Labour’s fiscal plan doubles down on its ‘trust us with your money’ aestheticNo surprises in today’s final fiscal announcement – but clear evidence Labour believes its request that National ‘show it the money’ is working. Prime minister Chris Hipkins and finance minister Grant Robertson delivered Labour’s fiscal plan – its vision for how it will raise money, and what it will spend ...3 hours ago
- NZ govt ‘welcomes’ US diplomatic relations with Cook Islands, NiueBy Lydia Lewis, RNZ Pacific journalist The New Zealand government has given its full blessing to Cook Islands and Niue establishing diplomatic relations with the United States. At the US-Pacific summit on Monday (Washington time), President Joe Biden said he recognised the two island nations as sovereign and independent states, ...3 hours ago
- NZ govt ‘welcomes’ US diplomatic relations with Cook Islands, NiueBy Lydia Lewis, RNZ Pacific journalist The New Zealand government has given its full blessing to Cook Islands and Niue establishing diplomatic relations with the United States. At the US-Pacific summit on Monday (Washington time), President Joe Biden said he recognised the two island nations as sovereign and independent states, ...3 hours ago
- New Report Shows National Emissions Reduction Policies Could Impact Auckland Economy Harder Than Res...Tāmaki Makaurau Auckland could experience a six per cent reduction in GDP compared to the rest of Aotearoa New Zealand in 2050, according to a new climate report. Mitigating climate change in New Zealand: impacts on Auckland’s economy describes how the ...3 hours ago
- The everyday technologies essential for accessibilityIt’s easy to take for granted, but technology exists to help us. The Spinoff spoke to four people with disabilities about the tech they consider essential. We often think of technology as irking us – Duolingo scolds, Instagram pesters and TikTok steals time. But, if I did throw my phone ...4 hours ago
- Weird but true: The year’s most emotional TV played out on Celebrity Treasure IslandThe inspired casting of Tāme Iti on a fundamentally silly reality TV show paid off in an impossibly resonant scene last night. The scene is unimaginably pretty. Somewhere outside Wānaka, on an island far from any road, two men wander along the lakeside. The pair are bathed in sun despite ...4 hours ago
- Candidates Front Up On Social Issues...4 hours ago
- Leaflet Campaign Ranks Party Climate Policies — National And NZ First Bad, ACT WorstClimate change campaigners will be delivering 40,000 leaflets around the country to alert voters about which parties are best and worst on climate change policies. See attached leaflet. "You wouldn't know it from a lot of political posturing ...4 hours ago
- Newsletter: September 27 2023 – Items of interest and importance todayNew Zealand Politics Daily is a collation of the most prominent issues being discussed in New Zealand. It is edited by Dr Bryce Edwards of The Democracy Project. NZ Politics Daily: 27 September 2023 ELECTION Gordon Campbell: On whether Winston Peters can be a moderating influence and bashing beneficiaries, again Jessica Mutch ...4 hours ago
- Election 2023: Labour's fiscal plan looks to reduce government spending, maintain income tax se...Labour has released its fiscal plan stating now is not the time for additional taxes and acknowledged the next few Budgets would be tight. ...4 hours ago
- New IEA Report A Warning That National Must Abandon Offshore Oil Drilling Policy – GreenpeaceFollowing the release of the International Energy Agency (IEA) ‘Net Zero Roadmap Update' yesterday, Greenpeace Aotearoa says that the National Party is out of touch with its promise to reverse the 2018 ban on new offshore oil and gas exploration. ...4 hours ago
- Labour releases fiscal plan promising further savings and return to surplus in 2027Labour has released its fiscal plan, a 12-page document laying out its spending plans over the next three years in response to the PREFU released earlier this month. It is forecasting a return to budget surplus in 26/27, and net debt to peak at 22.8% in the 24/25 fiscal year. ...4 hours ago
- Labour releases fiscal plan promising further savings and return to surplus in 2027Labour has released its fiscal plan, a 12-page document laying out its spending plans over the next three years in response to the PREFU released earlier this month. It is forecasting a return to budget surplus in 26/27, and net debt to peak at 22.8% in the 24/25 fiscal year. ...4 hours ago
- Westpac McDermott Miller Employment Confidence, September Quarter 2023The Westpac McDermott Miller Employment Confidence Index (ECI) fell by 7.4 points to 98.3 in the September quarter. This is the first time since March 2021 that households have held a negative view about conditions in the labour market, and the lowest reading ...5 hours ago
- Mount Albert candidates listen to renting horror stories at eventAt an event in Grey Lynn last night hosted by advocacy group Renters United, candidates for the Mount Albert electorate discussed housing issues with renters. Instead of a standard debate format, the event rotated candidates between tables of renters, giving attendees the chance to talk about some of their concerns ...5 hours ago
- Mount Albert candidates listen to renting horror stories at eventAt an event in Grey Lynn last night hosted by advocacy group Renters United, candidates for the Mount Albert electorate discussed housing issues with renters. Instead of a standard debate format, the event rotated candidates between tables of renters, giving attendees the chance to talk about some of their concerns ...5 hours ago
- Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alan Labas, Lecturer in Management, Federation University Australia Food waste is a global problem with approximately 1.3 billion tonnes of food wasted each year throughout the food lifecycle – from the farm to food manufacturers and households. Across the food supply chain, ...5 hours ago
- 7 ways to look after yourself and your community before and after the Voice referendumSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jacob Prehn, Associate Dean Indigenous College of Arts, Law, and Education; Senior Lecturer – Indigenous Fellow, Social Work, University of Tasmania GettyImages The lead-up to the Voice referendum is already affecting the health and wellbeing of Aboriginal and Torres Strait ...5 hours ago
- Why the Voice could be a bulwark against Trumpism gaining a stronger foothold in AustraliaSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Bruce Wolpe, Non-resident Senior Fellow, United States Study Centre, University of Sydney As former Labor minister Barry Jones has wisely noted, the Voice referendum feels like 2016 all over again. The shock from the Brexit vote in the United Kingdom in ...5 hours ago
- What do we know about long COVID in kids? And what do I do if I think my child has it?Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Shidan Tosif, Honorary Clinical Associate Professor, The University of Melbourne While COVID in children has generally been milder than in adults, there are concerns long COVID may be a major consequence for children and young people arising from the pandemic. Long COVID, ...5 hours ago
- Playful whales can use seaweed as a hat – or exfoliant. This “kelping” behaviour is more commo...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Olaf Meynecke, Research Fellow in Marine Science, Griffith University WA Western Whale Watch Australia, CC BY-NC-ND If you’re a whale, there’s often not too much to see out in deeper water. Perhaps that’s why so many whales get playful with ...5 hours ago
- Meet the experts in selling scienceFor New Zealand scientists trying to solve big-picture problems, turning them into commercial businesses is often an afterthought. Vanessa Young from the MacDiarmid Institute talks to some of the people guiding scientists through this journey. For many of us, trying to understand the hi-tech world of startups is challenging at ...5 hours ago
- Meet the experts in selling scienceFor New Zealand scientists trying to solve big-picture problems, turning them into commercial businesses is often an afterthought. Vanessa Young from the MacDiarmid Institute talks to some of the people guiding scientists through this journey. For many of us, trying to understand the hi-tech world of startups is challenging at ...5 hours ago
- On the campaign trail with Carmel SepuloniThe deputy PM on boosting the Pasifika vote turnout, her go-to cafe order and why she doesn’t want to be prime minister. Nestled among Titirangi’s native bush and towering trees, down a short steep driveway, with Labour Party hoardings spotting the yard, is the home of deputy prime minister and ...5 hours ago
- The candidate prepared to cross the floor against their own party
The voters aren't coming to them, so Maungakiekie's candidates are going to the voters. ‘They want to hear me say that if I become the local MP, I will lie on the proposed railway tracks. And I will!’ ...5 hours ago - The Bulletin: Does more advance voting impact results?Overseas voting in the October election starts today, ahead of local voting booths opening on Monday. In today’s Bulletin, the rise and rise of advance voting. In 2020, Claire Robinson concluded that advance voting probably benefits the traditional major parties and that the so-called minor parties benefit from late strategic voting. “Since ...6 hours ago
- Luxon and Hipkins ready for next showdownIt’s Tuesday, September 27 and welcome back to The Spinoff’s election live updates. I’m Stewart Sowman-Lund, on deck from Palmerston North, with support from our news team around the country. Get in touch with me on [email protected] Learn more about the political parties and where they stand at Policy.nz ...6 hours ago
- National, NZ First propose tougher beneficiary sanctions, trade tax barbsIn the same week National leader admitted he would work with New Zealand First, both parties have launched new policies aimed at reducing the number of people on benefits. Both take a hardline approach, though are significantly differ. While National’s proposal would introduce a tiered, traffic light framework at which ...6 hours ago
- The golden girl returns
Tayla Bruce has gone from a teenager fan with an NZ fern in her hair to world champion in bowls. Angela Walker tells her remarkable story “A true full circle moment,” is how Tayla Bruce described the surprise celebration that was put on for her at her bowls club in Christchurch. When ...6 hours ago - The rise and rise of advance votingOverseas voting opens today and advance voting starts on Monday. How influential could offshore voting be, and why are we still waiting for fiscal plans, asks Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. Just ...6 hours ago
- NZ’s Green Party is ‘filling the void on the left’ as voters grow frustrated with Labour’s c...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Priya Kurian, Professor of Political Science and Public Policy, University of Waikato The Green Party has run a strong campaign. With a 14.2% share in the latest Newshub-Reid Research poll, up by 1.9 percentage points since the previous poll, that is more ...7 hours ago
- Election 2023 updates: All the latest developments on 27 SeptemberOverseas voting for this year's general election starts today, with people having up until Election Day to cast their ballots. ...7 hours ago
- Māori leaders' debate ricochets from one hot button to next
Aaron Smale tuned in to TVNZ’s Kaupapa Māori Debate which heard from Māori from each of the main parties. He didn't find a lot to get excited about. Comment: It was a shambles but it was also telling. None of the political parties seem to have any coherent vision about where ...8 hours ago - Revolutionize Ocean Conservation: End Bottom Trawling And DredgingIndependent Whangarei Candidate Fiona Green thinks bottom trawling and dredging should be phased out because they have significant negative impacts on marine ecosystems. "Bottom trawling involves dragging a large net along the seafloor to catch fish ...8 hours ago
- Welfare experts group members criticise National's beneficiary policyMembers of the 2019 Welfare Expert Advisory Group have rejected National's claim their report backs up the party's harsher sanctions for some jobseekers. ...8 hours ago
- Will The Next Government Do Enough For Breast Cancer?Ahead of the election, Breast Cancer Foundation NZ has laid down a challenge to political parties to tackle breast cancer – the leading killer of New Zealand women under 65. The charity surveyed the seven biggest parties, asking them to adopt the ...9 hours ago
- The power and potential of the overseas vote in Election 2023Overseas voting in the general election opens today. Could those in Australia decide the winner? One million New Zealanders currently live overseas, representing 20% of New Zealand’s resident population and eligible voters. Almost 70% of our offshore citizens reside in Australia, which could mean up to half a million votes ...9 hours ago
- The hottest seat in the country? Why Wellington Central is a race unlike any otherIn the heart of a politically charged city, a high-stakes election battle is unfolding between three highly impressive candidates with significant political potential, all almost perfectly tied in the polls. With the Beehive at its centre, the symbolic importance of Wellington Central is obvious: it’s the home of the government, ...9 hours ago
- A big Labour collapse would make McAnulty vulnerable in Wairarapa
Voters skew conservative and older, but MP's local and national profile make the seat a tough nut to crack for National ...9 hours ago - Daily crossword, Wednesday 27 September
...9 hours ago - Shock claim: people reading NZ fiction
An annual report on the state of New Zealand fiction as something that people actually want to buy About 18 months ago, I wrote a piece for Newsroom that, along with plugging our inaugural Allen & Unwin Fiction prize, lamented the sorry state of New Zealand fiction sales at ...9 hours ago - How the Greens have supercharged their campaign
The Green Party is on track for its best electoral result ...9 hours ago - The no-brainer of removing extra tax on women and ethnic minorities
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In related news, “We own the water – Maori King”, and “Ngapuhi lodge claim over wind”. Interesting times for National, as dealing appropriately with these claims is going to enrage their base…
Dealing “appropriately” with those two particular claims mainly involves laughing in the faces of those making them – it’s hard to see that enraging National’s base.
On the contrary PM… the ToW and international law is quite clear. The iwi chieftains never ceded any scrap of their indigenous sovereignty and are the legal owners of this land, and all it’s resources.
The only party here without legitimacy is in fact the New Zealand Crown which can point to no constitution justifying it’s existence.
And once people probably would have laughed if you said to them that anyone owned the air waves….
It shouldn’t seem so funny to the right wing capitalism. Capitalism will aim to own whatever they can…. patents, copyright, ideas…. on and on it goes.
You’re quite right Carol, and so it will prove to be, over time I’m sure. Māori are magnificent long-term thinkers and campaigners.
My only fear is that, once it proves impossible to stop the process, the Pākeha elite will support a Māori elite in concentrating the resources into the hands of the few according to neoliberal practice, and essentially privatising them.
Absolutley
I have disagreed with this from the very start. It is one thing compensating a group of New Zealanders who have been wronged. It is another thing privatising New Zealand’s resources. Claiming ownership is a capitalist idea and should be resisted by those on the left.
I don’t think water, air, wind, oil should be capable of being owned privatley.
IMO the reason that Maori are talking about ‘owning’ water etc is because they’ve been forced into this concept by resistance of the dominant culture to settle treaty claims. Ownership in the way that you fear is a Pakeha way of working, but not a traditional Maori one as far as I can tell. Non-Maori, Pakeha in particular, would do well to learn from Maori and other cultures different ways of recognising relationship to nature. Then we will have some moral ground to stand on, plus some actual understanding of what is going on. We might even be able to come up with some solutions that don’t rely on Maori having to do all the hard work.
Oh, and ownership by iwi isn’t private ownership, so long as iwi have a governance role. It’s more akin to the state owning water. Which they do (or think they do).
If iwi end up with ownership rights, I’d like to see some limitations put on that eg not being able to sell to the private market. But those same limits would need to be made across the board.
Oh, and ownership by iwi isn’t private ownership, so long as iwi have a governance role. It’s more akin to the state owning water.
Sort of, along with kaitiatitanga and specific usage rights.
My fear about this process, in which Māori are as you say being forced into defending their rights from a more Pākeha concept of ownership, is the danger that it could turn out to be a step towards privatisation of these resources further down the track.
Drinkable water may well become a seriously diminishing resource as climate change bites deeper, and even now it is in much shorter supply worldwide, than most people realise. It’s also essential to all living things. Private ownership and control would be extremely lucrative…
Surely you’re getting mixed up between owning the water and owning the asset?
“If iwi end up with ownership rights, I’d like to see some limitations put on that eg not being able to sell to the private market.”
Moari have declared full and complete ownership ie they will OWN the water. That means they could do whatever they want with it. Including building a chinese dam just above the Benmore power station?
They really aren’t planning on limiting their ownership based on what the visitors say.
You should start listening to what they are actually saying and doing instead of blindly cheering them on because you want them to stop the asset sales (in the face of a democratically elected government. But democracy is so overrated isnt it.)
And once people probably would have laughed if you said to them that anyone owned the air waves….
They still should, because you can’t own a radio frequency any more than you can own gravity, or a colour. A governing body with the power to enforce compliance can sell you an exclusive licence to broadcast on a set of frequencies, but it doesn’t own them. I can picture a deal in which Maori are involved in decisions on commercial use of water, but that isn’t owning it by a long way. And wind? FFS, why not a claim for all the Maori oxygen these Pakehas are breathing while they’re at it?
Claiming for oxygen would be contrary to a maori perspective, as long as pakeha didn’t first attempt to do it and in doing so attempt to rob maori of their spirit. Since once air enters the body it mixes with the life force and becomes sacred, it too cannot be owned, but it can be protected. In plain English, the act of pre-empting a malicious act is unacceptable while within the confines of a relatively stable partnership. If things get to the point where a private pakeha company or entity is responsible for local air quality, maori should claim rights to the air, and using all the flaws of a useless language, win ownership and the things ownership bring. So it’s up to pakeha really: wise up, realise your systems have power over you, not the other way round or maori will be forced to save you from yourself.
QFT
The capitalist systems we work under have been designed so as to disassociate people from nature and the wealth that they require to live.
“The capitalist systems we work under have been designed so as to disassociate people from nature”
O Rly?
You really ought to read some Marx. You don’t need to agree with it, but you’d have a bit more of an idea of what some people were talking about.
Hell, that’s why I sat through a semester of Neitschze.
I am familiar with Marx.
But someone vapidly repeating the idea that ‘capitalism’ (whatever Draco wishes that to mean) alienates the workers/plebs/proles/masses from nature is an assertion which I am querying by asking “O rly?”
you see it all the time in work places. Yes, rly.
Its funny how trools always have to have the last say even though they have lost the argument ,
The incontinaryan you should just go to Pete Georges site he will agree with everything you say,
We know your modes operandi and that is to be cynical about everything political if you weren’t so serious about your mission I would believe you were telling the truth.
Got a link for that?
Funnily enough, Marx wrote a few books on the general concept of alienation of the workers from each other, society, the means of production and indeed nature.
If you are familiar with Marx as you claim then you already know the basic justification for suggesting the concept of alienation. If you disagree with the concept, offer a rebuttal. I for one am not going to give you a “timewasters only” enrollment into POLS112.
Of course, if you a) have no idea what you’re talking about and have a dickish way of asking for explanations; and/or b)are just waving your dick around the pub for the hell of it (you? surely not); then go suck an egg.
You can suck fucking eggs, McFlock.
I am not asking someone to explain ‘What Marx said’.
Draco said it, he can answer it.
Got that.
Rather than the 150-odd year old and well-discussed concept of capitalism causing alienation, you want to know if DTB has invented a completely new theory of alienation.
Not that you’re desperate for attention, at all.
“you want to know if DTB has invented a completely new theory of alienation.”
No.
I’d like to say ‘good guess’ but…
Well, either DTB is saying that capitalism causes alienation in the well-trodden marxist sense, or he’s using the term in a new, non-traditional way.
You reckon you’re familiar with the marxist sense, which leaves…
Well, then lets get Draco up to defend that remark.
Chop, chop.
Dude, you haven’t attacked it, so there’s no need for anyone to “defend” that remark. Seems to be a perfectly adequate use of a tried and true political science expression.
Draco says “The capitalist systems we work under have been designed so as to disassociate people from nature…” so surely he can justify that statement without needing his weasel toothed hunchbacked lackey rolling in and saying ‘because Marx said’.
Why would it need explanation if you were actually familiar with Marx, as you claimed? It’s like “dialectic”, “wage slavery” or “thesis synthesis antithesis”.
You could just have said that you didn’t understand the concept.
Because Marx said so, you mean
Yes. Let’s reduce all the concepts in das kapital to “because marx said so”.
I mean, we could read it a bit more closely and look at the commodification of worker behaviour, time and interactions so they are controlled by the owners of capital rather than the individual worker, but your summary is in such lovely intellectually bite-sized portions.
Yes that is all well and good. Well done.
Nice repetition.
“The capitalist systems we work under have been designed so as to disassociate people from nature”
How? Which capitalist system? All facets of capitalism? Would a capitalist system that exemplifies one’s association with nature fall in the same category? Is capitalism a single entity that can be explained, and discarded, in one fell swoop by the quotes of a 150 year old German?
Fuck. ok, pols112 it is.
How?
By turning everything into a commodity transferable in exchange for capital. Power resides in the possession of capital, so the rich have more control over everything and the abject poor have none.
Which capitalist system?
Any system that commodifies anything alienates workers from the things that are commodified.
All facets of capitalism?
Would a capitalist system that exemplifies one’s association with nature fall in the same category?
You do know what capitalism is, right? Do you really think that such a system could logically exist?
Is capitalism a single entity that can be explained, and discarded, in one fell swoop by the quotes of a 150 year old German?
Only in the same way that Newtonian physics is still valid to this day in explaining car crashes or football, rather than astrophysics or nuclear power. But Neo-Marxism is a 300-level course and it’s unlikely you’ll pass the prerequisites..
“Only in the same way that Newtonian physics is still valid to this day in explaining car crashes or football, rather than astrophysics or nuclear power.”
Yeah, you do know that while Newton’s physics are still valid that in the intervening years there are many many aspects that have proven invalid and that Newtonian physics has been supplanted by Eisenstein Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. While Newton remains a legend, his ideas are not above reproach…like Marx.
“You do know what capitalism is, right? Do you really think that such a system could logically exist?”
Yes it can logically exist.
But why don’t you answer a specific instead rattling off from Das Kapital.
“The capitalist systems we work under have been designed so as to disassociate people from nature”
How? Can you explain this sentence without the Marxian repetition?
Real simple words then:
H needs money to buy needs and wants.
To get money H tries to convince other people that I can provide their needs and wants. Or H tries to persuade them that they need or want something H provides, when they don’t particularly need or want it.
The capitalist principle encourages H to view people, things, and nature as resources to gain money. They are not valued in themselves by H, but are instead valued according to whether other people are prepared to pay for them. If it looks like others are, then H wants to possess a piece to be able to sell for money – like recent Iwi water issues. Or super-trawlers. Or strip-mines. The driving force is not regard for the resource, but a simple desire for more money, because other people want them, because other people think they will get money from them.
In a capitalist society, everyone and everthing is someone else’s mark.
“The capitalist systems we work under have been designed so as to disassociate people from nature”
So no response then?
“In a capitalist society, everyone and everthing is someone else’s mark.”
Heh:
A) Remove capitalist society
B)..?…
C) Utopia!
You speak as if the worlds ills are sole capitalist. Please….naive much?
“The capitalist principle encourages H to view people, things, and nature as resources to gain money”
Replace ‘Money” with knowledge or peace.
ho ho ho
But before I go:
‘Yeah, you do know that while Newton’s physics are still valid that in the intervening years there are many many aspects that have proven invalid and that Newtonian physics has been supplanted by Eisenstein Relativity and Quantum Mechanics. While Newton remains a legend, his ideas are not above reproach…like Marx.”
Don’t forget
You don’t need relativity theory to examine a car crash, dipshit.
Alienation is at that level.
To continue the metaphor, Dutch Sandwiches and toxic assets are the equivalent of storing a few extra used fuel rods in your coastal earthquake-zone reactor’s storage tanks.
“You don’t need relativity theory to examine a car crash, dipshit.”
You don’t need a slavish adherence to Marxism to understand the world either, you ball-bagged Walrus raper.
yeah, right – and capitalism is the way to find “knowledge or peace”.
A) Remove capitalist society
B)..?…
C) Utopia!
Well, wikipedia every political or economic “ism” other than “capitalism” and “communism” and you’d have the merest fraction of the options that fall into your (once again intellectually bite-sized) option “B”. Personally, I’m a democratic socialist, but whatever rocks your boat.
Seriously – go do some study yourself. For someone allegedly familiar with Marx, you knew fuck-all about that. Rather than being a capitalist because you can’t conceive anything other than “capitalism” or “communism”, do some reading and you’ll find the options are limitless.
But then there’s not really any money is such self-directed study, so folks tend to be alienated from political thoughts more complex than “them:us, capitalism:communism”.
Hey, McFlock, you’re probably figuring out by now why I just ignore the idiot. He will just ask questions that will, quite literally, take you round and round in circles.
yeah, but the “The capitalist principle encourages H to view people, things, and nature as resources to gain knowledge or peace” is comedy gold.
Ah well, best off to bed, anyway. The dick will be back soon, same bat-shit stupid theme, same bulletproof and completely undeserved ego.
Call me crazy, McFlock, but I am pretty sure it was me arguing this entire thread that here was more to it than mere “Capitalism vs. Communism” and that there were varying shades of each.
Somehow, weirdly, you seem to have misunderstood this.
And Daco, thanks for coming out! You’ve been missed, yet much discussed. Care to explain your thinking?
The masses await…
“Ah well, best off to bed, anyway. The dick will be back soon, same bat-shit stupid theme, same bulletproof and completely undeserved ego.”
please, McFlock, what you get up to in your own bedroom is no concern of ours. Heh.
Call me crazy, McFlock, but I am pretty sure it was me arguing this entire thread that here was more to it than mere “Capitalism vs. Communism” and that there were varying shades of each.
Oh. I took your comment of “O rly” to be justifiably ridiculing the ideas that capitalism was designed and that the designers had as one of their main purposes the alienation of people from nature. As well as prompting readers to consider that, despite anything POLS 112 might say, the idea that capitalism is responsible for the alienation of people from nature may be fairly convincingly refuted by the failure of people in non-capitalist industrial societies to display the quasi-religious view of nature prevalent in primitive tribal societies. On the other hand, maybe I was reading kind of a lot into it…
+1
I’ve come to the conclusion that TheContrarian just isn’t smart enough to bother with.
Seriously, has anyone ever seen one of his trools that didn’t end up with him proving beyond all doubt that he didn’t have a clue what he was talking about?
Bit sad really.
Well, get a fucking moderator to block me you worthless, scum ridden, ham fisted cunt
[lprent: You have requested this before. But we do it on behaviour not on request. ]
Good call, TheConservative. You won’t be missed.
TheConservative? Really, that’s the best you can come up with?
So, The Standard is a labour party mouth-piece right? Why was it hosted on Labour Party servers? Is it still labour funded?
Where is Lynn when you need her
[lprent: It wasn’t. The Labour party as far as I’m aware has never owned any servers on the internet – they certainly don’t have any particular expertise to run them.
However the site was on some servers back in Jan 2008 for about 3 weeks that I’d gotten room on from a activist I knew when we outgrew my home systems. The use of those servers had been donated to the NZLP by an ISP. The NZLP had given their use over to my friend to do what he willed with them because he had some expertise. It could have as easily been a green party server, or one from a company, or as it eventually wound up – my paying $70 per month for a virtual server. I was just looking for room on a server with faster bandwidth.
Bill English was lying when he said that the NZLP ran this site, but I guess you aren’t conspicuous about checking who said what. Something that he still hasn’t apologised for.
You really are grasping at straws to get banned aren’t you? Are you having problems with your habit of being curiously lacking at completion? Can I help? I could just complete your comments for you when you leave them dangling and limp.. ]
And Soviet Russia was a natural nirvana where the environment was the most important thing to be considered.
“Well, get a fucking moderator to block me you worthless, scum ridden, ham fisted cunt”
Dont hold back – tell us what you really think 🙂
Key and his lot are pretty sure to try to do their utmost to “work around it”. I wonder what will be Sharples punishment for his “disobedience” toward the dictator? He was “told” not to attend the hui not “asked”. But even Key might pay scant attention to anyone bearing the title “King”.
Yes, I note in Watkins article on Stuff, she’s still playing a bit of the divide card, referring to some continuing tensions between “powerful” iwi leaders and smaller tribal groups:
Maori speak as one on water rights*
* Ngai Tahu not included
Ngai Tahu not included because last time “all iwi spoke as one” it was to get their hands on Ngai Tahu’s fishing rights. Jealousy that Ngai Tahu had too great a share based on it’s coastline.
Infighting will stuff this up too.
Also, from the Herald –
Other iwi, such as Tuhoe, who have accepted a Crown offer for their historical grievances were not at the king’s hui. Tuhoe’s Tamati Kruger has told the Herald that water is an issue between the tribe and the government only.
Nor urban Maori unaffiliated with any Iwi as far as I can tell…
On Te Kaea, Maori TV last night it showed the closing words of Mr Sharples’ speech to the hui. Hardly fair to judge on the last few sentences but really for a leader it was un-inspiring. He did say he was the meat in the sandwich. “One slice was white. One slice was brown. And I am in the middle.” (paraphrased)What? In the middle??? Hardly wholehearted support for the Maori cause?
Does this mean Maori own 95% of my urine?
No, because it’s not about ownership, but rights.
And guess what? You don’t have the right to just pee anywhere you like whenever you like!
It is about ownership. Look at the links.
This is the “lost in translation” part. There is no pakeha version of the connection moari have to natural resources, so “ownership” is the closest term used so that English speaking people can have a word to talk about.
The problem is further confused because there is no pakeha version of the physical and practical manifestation of the relationship between maori and the natural world, so within a capitalist framework, the actions of “ownership” are the closest alternative.
In modern pakeha world, there is owned and not owned. In maori world there are several further degrees of everything and nothing. How can they possibly communicate that gap with pakeha words? In pakeha world, a person defines who they are, one is what one has, to own is to control, to believe in control is to believe things can be earned. In moari world, to be is to be part of a natural system.
The problem is further confused because pakeha, having first forced maori to use their rudimentary labelling systems, then deny that other realities exist and blame maori for being unable to express those realities in terms they can understand. Then pakeha deny that there is even anything such as maori, proof they say, is that some maori live in cities, have jobs, families and TV’s. So pakeha complains that to own means to profit, and that profit means to have control and that power is only ever used for oppression and graft if not used by them. They see the potential profit, they see it is not owned by them and something seems very wrong – they ask, how was this earned? If it was not earned, it was not controlled and if it was not controlled it was not owned and if it was not owned, then we cannot be! Then they forget about how time works and use a distorted present to measure an imagined future. Then they start freaking out about who is who and how much blood quantum is in each person. All the while, maori have not moved.
Maori do not claim to own water, but they say they must be allowed to “own” the water in order to maintain their spiritual/cultural/now legalised links to it within our current economic parameters and definitions. Maori didn’t bring it up, pakeha wanted to take water as a tool for forwarding foreign economic policy, forgetting their obligations, and maori said no thanks. It’s not their fault pakeha had a memory lapse. If someone wants to stop maori “owning” water, to avoid challenging the basis for the “I am” in pakeha perspective, they’ll have to considerably adjust pakeha systems. Once that is done nothing will have changed in real terms, but at least people will be able to see what they’re looking at
Nothing like a generous dollop of racial stereotyping to enrich a debate…
you do it so well mental milt
Very good Uturn, thanks.
They are using the english word “ownership”, not some other maori expression. Its english meaning is clearly what they now mean.
Several centuries of landscape painting and poetry, and indeed the whole Romantic movement, and a shitload of classical mythology would seem to a disagree with you on Pakeha/Europeans not having any connection to the land that wasn’t ownership, and in practice I’d debate there’s much practical difference between everybody using state assets and traditional Maori concepts of Kaitiakitanga.
Sure there’s a connection. God given dominion over the land and all its wealth both above and below it. And if there are primitives on that land, they belong to you too, to do with as you see fit.
You really don’t get the whole “art” thing, do you CV? Your typical negative distortion and misrepresentation as usual. A painter can still paint a mountain without wanting to own it or in any way troubling whoever lives there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublime_%28philosophy%29
I thought you were talking about an entire philosophical and spiritual outlook on the land. One which encompasses a whole value system and mythology. The connection with the land I described predicated centuries of western global colonial activity.
One of the most annoyingly stupid things about Marxist analysis is the assumption that western philosophy is monolithic. Funnily enough the West is the only imperialist culture that got around of its own accord to realising slavery was wrong.
Yay, a good imperialist culture. Wait, that sounds a bit wrong…
Some elements of the west recognised that slavery was wrong. They had to defeat by force other parts who still wanted slavery.
And if I look around now, it seems today that the ruling class (including Apple board members) have no problem with slavery whatsoever.
Populuxe
The whole ‘romantic’ version of nature is merely colonisation by aesthetic. A depiction of the natural world viewed through a kaleidoscope of European philosophical and intellectual angst. The romantics sought to ‘capture’ an individualised perception of the natural world ‘subordinate’ it to a romanticised interpretation – with an intended outcome of patronage. With patronage came ‘ownership’ of the interpretation. On our back door, the depictions of the ‘noble savage’ emphasises this distorted perspective.
Depicting nature does not necessarily correlate with an intimate connection with the natural world. That would be akin to saying that wonderful depictions of women correlates with an abiding reverence for women. I think not.
The relationship Māori have with the natural world is through whakapapa thus the natural world is depicted as tūpuna. Papa-tū-ā-nuku is the female element; Rangi-nui-ā-tamaku is the male element, Tāwhiri-matea, the weather; Tangaroa-mātua; the seas etc.
Also our relationship with the natural world is specific not generalised – again established through whakapapa. I whakapapa to Tarawera me Pūtauaki – two mountains. I whakapapa to Tarawera me Te Rangitaiki – two rivers. The whakapapa relationships I share with these particular aspects of the environment resonate more profoundly than any relationship I might have with say Mitre Peak or the Waikato River.
Māori views in respect to the natural world have been dismissively denigrated as animistic mumbo-jumbo. Some of these people also profess a love for nature. Pūkana to that
Nicely said. I would add that if Western culture truly did have any kind of respect for the natural world there would be no need for those of us who do give a s**t to be constantly defending it.
Post-structural babble and circular reasoning. Being individualised, Adele, doesn’t make it any less valid or less deep attachment. To argue that something is only authentic if couched in your terms sounds every bit as chauvinistic and absurd as me dithering over English equivalents for Tino rangatiratanga sounds to you – it’s just as offensive. Would I have a closer attachment to the landscape if I believed Yahweh made Adam from clay and breathed life into his nostrils, or if I believed Prometheus did much the same, or if I believed that Odin made my ancestors from two trees? You dishonour 150 years of my ancestors buried in the earth of these islands to say that I don’t have a deep emotional and spiritual connection to this land. How can you look at a Colin McCahon painting and even think such nonsense. Such mana pissing patches are tiresome.
Here’s some Wordsworth – pick apart his selfish neuroses as you will: http://www.bartleby.com/101/536.html
Well Adele, my email tells me you have replied, but I can’t see it here, so I’ll assume my computer is stuffing up and just quote you in full and address you paragraph by paragraph.
Ignoring the fact that the “western tradition” largely evolved from tribal ones. Not that there really is much of an “indigenous discourse” except with the West, because inevitably the indigenous hierarchy is partly based on the restriction of knowledge and privilege. Discourse as a concept is part of that whole “white privilege”, University thing.
So much for discourse then – baby, bathwater etc….
Why shouldn’t I be angry – you keep insulting me and my heritage? What else is the correct response?
Yep, you’re right – them too. However that doesn’t diminish European High Art, or anything else for that matter. Basically you are being as dismissive of my traditions as I am of supernatural worldviews. Yo Pot, this is Kettle, whazzup my nizzle?
By that logic your spiritual relationship is with Hawaiki, or Taiwan perhaps. By the way, obviously it’s a touchy subject but it seems relevant – I am assuming that you must be at least in some small part Pakeha. Do you just ignore this? Are your Pakeha ancestors not part of your whakapapa? Do you not also have a spiritual connection to where they came from? Does that Pakeha part of you not have a spiritual connection to this land? Or are you just cherrypicking tikanga to suit your prejudices?
Well your responses read a lot like someone being a hateful bitch, but we really shouldn’t be making judgements on a person’s spiritual psyche based on posts on a blog. At times I also relate to the world as a complex living thing – sometimes I call it Gaia, sometimes the Ecosphere, sometimes it’s just the whole beautiful majesty of the world of which I am part. No, I’m not saying McCahon’s paintings are better than the real thing, I’m saying they’re a profound spiritual response to the land – don’t be deliberately obtuse.
Populuxe
I deleted the post as it contained links which weren’t linking. I will respond to your response later this evening.
Populuxe
This is the original post with the links embedded within. I can’t get them to link properly and I am hoping the moderators may once again be generously disposed in this respect.
Populuxe
Firstly, I proclaim an indigenous worldview therefore I do not subscribe to western philosophical or intellectual traditions. An indigenous discourse is a counter text to the western tradition.
Secondly, I stopped reading dead white men some time ago so I won’t be reading Wordsworth – and besides I have already suffered a fairly heavy dose of him and others.
Thirdly, your pseudo intellectualising of my position is worthy of Babel itself, and the faux outrage exposes instead an angry white guy – a popular luxury item in America still – although apparently now suffering from regression.
Attempting to use European High Art to make a persuasive argument for European connectedness to nature was always a leaky boat to row. Actually it’s a Rena on a rock, and a totally mis-placed sentiment. The connectedness can be found in European Folk Art – the art of the pagan, the art of the peasant, and the art of craft.
I completely accept the intimate and spiritual relationship that the Scot may have to Scotland, the Irish to Éire, the English to England, and the French to France. People indigenous to their lands share a common understanding and generally will relate to their lands and waterways in the same way as Māori.
To say that you have a deeply spiritual and emotional connection to these lands reads like a void. I am not spiritually or emotionally connected to these places because I have dead buried therein (and there are many). I relate to the natural world as a complex living entity that is forever animated, has many names, and is an interconnected reality inclusive of me. As for Colin McCahon are you suggesting that his landscape paintings are better than the real thing?
[lprent: There was a trailing single quote on the URL that was preventing the system recognizing them as links. Computers tend to be the ultimate in pedantic syntax intolerance. Fixed. ]
So basically a bunch of cliches and stereotypes generated by the academic principles made possible by “white privilege” in the first place… Which should imply that “white privilege” contains the seeds of it’s own deconstruction, which would make it fairly unusual and able to ethically evolve of its own accord.
Populuxe
Unlike you, I work long hours, so I have limited time to indulge your superior notions of intellectual capacity.
I thought to give careful consideration to your diatribe and was in fact working through a response. I now think not. I cannot afford the time to engage in eye-ball plucking tedium..
Why should I continue to flabberjabber with a fulcrum-less contrivance such as yourself. Your approach to conceptual matters is so sickly shallow – I could aquaplane into the ads on your stuff.
So sally forth in blissful delusion. My white privileged thinking cares not a jot.
Māori views in respect to the natural world have been dismissively denigrated as animistic mumbo-jumbo.
Or in a lot of cases, correctly recognised as religious superstition and dismissed on the same basis as Whitey’s religious superstitions.
A Psycho Spell
Yo Mother Earth here me squawk
This dude Psycho is making me baulk
Curse him with lice or curse him the fleas
Or simply ignore his white whiney wheeze
Yo Mother Earth I beg your indulgence
Maybe a wee bout of incontinence
Nah, better still, let him sleep, to awaken
Brown, poor, and clutching a mountain
no.
If you drank their water, then, yes, it probably does. They may charge a fee for you polluting their water.
Interesting to see some of the headlines – from google news collection of most recent articles on the issue:
http://news.google.co.nz/news/more?pz=1&cf=all&ncl=djjAKKYORmH-fdMalFcmIl3BIu7tM&topic=h
Top 2 articles:
The first above plays JonKey’s game of making it about outright ownership of water. The second misleads by claiming the Maori Hui primary aim is to delay asset sales, rather than negotiate over water rights.
but the msm been telling us it would be impossible for them to reach consensus, like they would know. theres def a lot more work to do for these tribes, but as history shows with these things its only by grouping together that we can get anywhere, divided we are toast. & yes, maori will play the long game, so what if it pisses people off, whats new? i cant beleive im hearing the ‘if theres a flood or hurricane do i get to redress from maori for damage’ meme over & over, why are the ppls arguments who oppose maori rights so piss weak? coz they stupid (& maybe a bit racist).
‘if theres a flood or hurricane do i get to redress from maori for damage’
No you do what you have always done ring the EQC and then your insurance company. Jeezuz people are always trying to cloud the issues.
Just wondering what would happen if a Labour-led government had been elected on a clear platform of implementing a policy, and if this policy was then blocked by a feudal elite. You guys would be cool with that…right?
Steve, I’m not sure it’s sure its polite to call the Queen and the Governor General a feudal elite, but if it ever happens, then I’m sure ‘us guys’ will have something interesting to say.
Well, Liz & Co, are a feudal elite, but they aren’t about to block any law AFAIK, and if they did it would probably cause our becoming a republic.
But it seems that the part of the political spectrum that claims to represent the “people” have no probs with this feudal court in Ngauruawahui vetoing the will of a parliament elected by the “people”.
What veto, Steve?
While it would be terrific if the tangata whenua did have a veto over legislation that negatively impacts them, as part of the treaty partnership, that isn’t actually the case. Yesterday’s hui has merely confirmed that iwi and hapu are going to test the decision to sell and to find out whether they have a financial interest in a related matter (water). That’s perfectly normal behaviour, isn’t it? People challenge the government all the time, both on the streets and in the courts.
But if democracy, and the rule of law, isn’t your thing, well, bad luck.
Oh great! How about letting the top 10% of income earners have a veto on any legislation that negatively impacts on them
Have you possibly thought Steve that they already do?
Perhaps not 10%, perhaps 1%, perhaps 0.1% but the point stands..
They already do, Steve. It’s called the Key government.
how about making sure that folk actually own something before they sell it? The principle applies to cars and jewellery just as much as state assets.
Hmm let me see….
Were there protests in the streets about the government selling assets? Yes.
Were there protests in the streets about Maori having a hui to discuss ownership/custodial rights over water? Hmmm No..
Enough said?
Steve the feudal masters did do that back in 1984 funny that!
Orwellian slip their Steve!
>clear platform of implementing a policy,
The election result was hardly a clear mandate. the Nacts only got about 35% of the electoral vote
>policy was then blocked by a feudal elite
who are the feudal elite to which you refer?
Nat + ACT + UF = 49.0%. This stuff isn’t hard to look up.
Two points:
The “35%” would have been an allusion to the alienated 20-odd percent who are so uninspired by our current politicians that they felt none were worth their vote;
49% is not a clear mandate. It is not even a majority. The power nactuf have is due to two rotten boroughs, one of which is occupied by someone who habitually signs legal documents without reading them, just in case they are false declarations.
Counting the non-votes as against asset sales is also disingenuous. They had every opportunity to register their support for one of the anti-asset sales parties. They did not.
But you counted them for., or at least 49% of then.
DUH
no comment about railroading legislation through when one only has 49% of the vote, then?
If the tories can do that, then I guess it’s fine to just appropriate and profit off someone else’s property, then?
Nope that was who voted, not enrolled to vote!!!
Who are the elite Steve?
1million disenfranchised voters Ratstail.
SW Holyoake and Muldoon had a bigger majority when he wanted to raise Manapouri!
Helen Clark had a majority when Shane Arden drove his fergie up the steps of parliament over the fart tax!
Spin and more BS Steve no one is allowed to upset your Party of one!
Please, what is Labour’s policy on the ownership of water ?
I know I go selectively deaf, according to my wife, but I am all ears to hear this, as it will form an important part of the 2014 election strategy, as it will still be ongoing then.
Ha! Nice attempted diversion, my Tory friend. The real question you should be asking is why is Key still furiously paddling up the proverbial creek.
So what is the Green’s policy on the ownership of water? Is it true that Metiria would have handed all water over by now and made a law forbidding any visitor from touching any water without written permission of the owners?
Fortran/OneTrack
Looking at the statements from LabGreen, it is clear that their implicit policy is that they would at least entertain the privatisation of water, wind as so forth. Obviously they can’t say this explicitly because it would highlight the lunacy of LabGreen using the the potential privatisation of water to try to stop the sale of minority shareholdings in electricity generators. Meanwhile, the prime minister’s position is, in a technical sense, pure communism – that no ones water, wind etc. Perhaps it was for this reason that my RadioLIVE colleague Matt McCarten basically backed the PM’s position on Thursday. He does not believe in private ownership of water under any circumstances. Willie and JT, in contrast, support the potential privatisation of water as long as it is to iwi. We live in interesting times.
Willie and JT, in contrast, support the potential privatisation of water as long as it is to iwi.
Them and a shitload of The Standard commenters.
Some. You know how it operates. People comment on what they’re interested in and most just sit back and observe. The extremes seem to attract each others comment. Typically there are less than 20-30 commentators involved out of the thousands who do comment here. It isn’t a relatively unpopulated sounding board comment stream like Yes Minister :twisted:. Hell, I even put up the gross stats on the right.
Ummm and you seem to have been heavily involved in those particular discussions. I wonder what that makes you….
No Minister’s a few grumpy old codgers having a rant, so you really don’t need to bother. I am however genuinely nonplussed by this:
Ummm and you seem to have been heavily involved in those particular discussions. I wonder what that makes you….
Is that a roundabout way of suggesting I’m one of the extremes? No offence taken if so – being in the middle of the bell curve is wildly overrated.
I doubt they have a policy as such, your question needs to be clarified.
And a good place to start is …
“What is Maori ?”
“What is a NZer?”
“What is Civilised?”
They should be the same question which many here would argue in favour of.
The rest are “Divide and conquer” people, most of which are in denial of that fact beacuse they are harping words from others without thinking them through in a modern day “Civilised” sense.
It may well be.
Not the ownership, but the USE of water.
The Taniwha has been loosed by the incompetence of Keys NACT.
Yep. Divide and conquer as reported by Tracy Watkins this evening, with Key still saying “Maori don’t own water”.
According to Watkins many Iwi leaders failed to support the call for a pan Maori negotiation over water rights.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7680986/Maori-don-t-own-water-Key
Many of you claim National lack a mandate, well wait 3-4 months and you may well see them have the biggest mandate ever granted by the voting public.
This issue will see a massive turn out if they call a snap election and the only losers will be the left.
Personally I’d love to see a snap election.
I’m hoping Key announces it after a couple of stiff drams 🙂
The ontime whopper may become a flopper.
What is Labours position on who owns water? Have they discussed it yet? Or does David have a different idea from David?
You know something we dont BB?
Yeah why not, it’d be a great excuse not to feed starving kids.
We can spend up on TV advertising instead.
Get to see some smarmy smiles again …. can’t wait.
Who saw kweewee on the teevee last night saying that if some Maori did not wish to be consulted then they wouldn’t.
More double dutch from Mr Big.
And BB.
If kweewee called a snap election in 3months then he would go down in a screaming heap.
The country is being overridden by the shadowy constitutional advisory panel and the local body act so in no way would it be a single issue snap election and the Key Government would be exposed for the pack of hag ridden moneygrubbers that they really are.
And the first question will be why the constitutional advisory panel was selected in private and who are they?
And secondly what makes them superior to all others in deciding constitutional arrangements.
Are they being paid and how much?