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Militant reactionarism coming to NZ

Written By: - Date published: 11:47 pm, January 12th, 2011 - 149 comments
Categories: Economy, racism, uk politics, us politics - Tags: , ,

The Great Depression was marked by the rise of rightwing reactionarism. Out of reactionary movements came fascist governments from Brazil to Romania. We even had the New Zealand Legion, which claimed 100,000 members. Now, the Great Recession is spawning a new wave of militant reactionarism, and it’s coming to our shores.

The Tea Party, which reached a new level of violence this weekend, is the most well-known example of reactionarism on the rise but it is hardly limited to the US. The British National Party has won its first seat in the European Parliament and won over half a million votes in the UK general election year. Mussolini’s granddaughter, Alessandra, is also an MEP.

Economic crisis hits the poor the hardest and they can respond in two ways – with class consciousness and a united demand for left-wing solutions or with reactionarism, a pining for the ‘good old days’ that can be restored by strong leadership and protecting the ‘nation’ from, usually, new ‘outsiders’ who are blamed for taking the wealth and sapping that nation’s morals.

25 years of neoliberalism has weakened the collective values that the Left needs to thrive and left the working class atomised and angry. We have a long period of economic crisis ahead of us. The rise of reactionarism, rapidly becoming more violent, and, if allowed, evolving into fascism will be the major political consequence. Unless the Left provides an alternative, reactionarism will turn working class people against each other – ‘native’ vs ‘immigrant’, straight vs gay, male vs female – and that ultimately just makes it easier for the ruling capitalist class and more difficult for the Left.

Here in New Zealand a new group calling itself the ‘New Zealand Right Wing Resistance’ has launched in (where else?) Christchurch. This flyer is being distributed:

The name is enough to tell you this is a reactionary movement, perhaps it’s Kyle Chapman’s latest project. The nationalist language and insignia (Wolfsangel rune used by neo-Nazis and SS-style skull) points to violent intent – even if just as a fantasy. The fact that the abbreviation of the name in the email address doesn’t match the order of the words written just above it suggests they’re not too smart.

But reactionaries never are smart. What they are is militant, populist, and attractive to young, unemployed (men) who have seen their promised future disappear and are receptive when told that ‘outsiders’ are to blame.

Right now, Christchurch is the perfect breeding ground for a reactionary movement. The economy is tanking, the government (to the reactionary’s mind) is leaving working-class Pakeha in quake-damaged homes while handing over the beaches to the Maori, and there’s a long history of anti-Asian bigotry in the city to build on.

Will this movement take off? I hope not. But we need to be on our guard. And the Left (especially Labour) needs to offer those unemployed working-class kids something better than the reactionaries – a real alternative economic, and hope.

149 comments on “Militant reactionarism coming to NZ ”

  1. Draco T Bastard 1

    Will this movement take off? I hope not.

    I hope not as well but it doesn’t help when there’s more and more evidence that immigrants are taking the jobs that are available by the simple expedient of quoting jobs at less than what it costs to do them properly. It also doesn’t help when jobs are advertised to work in NZ where you have to be able to speak mandarin and the job isn’t as a translator.

    • Bunnykinz 1.1

      “it doesn’t help when there’s more and more evidence that immigrants are taking the jobs”
      “It also doesn’t help when jobs are advertised to work in NZ where you have to be able to speak mandarin and the job isn’t as a translator”

      Please feel free to share this evidence with us. Also some examples of these job advertisements would be great too.

      • Colonial Viper 1.1.1

        It also doesn’t help when jobs are advertised to work in NZ where you have to be able to speak mandarin and the job isn’t as a translator.

        *Shrug* China is the dominant financial powerhouse of the Asia Pacific today. If anything the above is a good sign that we are moving with the times.

        Further, there are other advertised positions requiring Te Reo, sign language, etc.

        However I take the point – the desperate and the angry will latch on to anything to pour their scorn on. Say…I’m still sure that Obama doesn’t look or sound like an American.

        • ghostwhowalksnz

          A requirement to be bi-lingual? How unusual ( The english speaking part seems to be taken for granted)
          If I spoke another language other than english , I for sure would be yelling it from rooftops.

          • Vicky32

            Well, not if it’s Italian… 🙁 That’s proven pretty useless to me so far…)

      • Augustus 1.1.2

        Explain this to me: A friend was checked by a fisheries officer last weekend. The man was wearing a stab-proof vest and carried handcuffs and taser, on a beach! He checked my friend’s catch and offered some small talk, which turned out that he was Irish and had been in the country for 2 weeks. Our area has plenty of unemployment, as has the whole country. How did he get the job? And how come they don’t wear that kind of garb aboard, say, a Talley’s boat? Probably because none of the men on board could understand him anyway.

      • Vicky32 1.1.3

        I have seen job adverts that ask for people to be able to speak Mandarin, but they are (a) rare and (b) usually retail jobs in souvenir shops, or admin jobs in language schools – and very necessary they are, too… . 🙂
        I thrive on immigrants, most of whom are temporary students (as an ESOL teacher), and so my attitude is “the more the merrier”! What retards like those who have started the group above don’t realise is that 90% of these immigrants are not staying!
        Also, most of them can’t actually get jobs. (I am on SEEK in another tab, and every job I have applied for today, stressing citizenship or residence as a qualification.)

    • McFlock 1.2

      Yeah I agree w/ Bunnykinz, DtB. Just a weeeeeeeeee bit “ouch”.

      We’re not exactly flooded with immigrants in NZ, although we are a diverse nation. You bring up Mandarin as a requirement for a job – given that “Asian” (and such a broad brush to paint with) makes up something like 10$ (from memory) of the current estimated NZ population the requirement would probably be more for the purposes of tourism outlets or export/importers, or ESL tutors (i.e. any job that involves dealing with people who speak Mandarin as a first language and want to give us money or crappy goods) rather than being a case of dang migrants dun took R jobs.

      If you pinned the claim to a specific job advert I’d have more idea. But some jobs require different language skills – it would be a crap French language teacher indeed who couldn’t speak French.
      Hell, I know some organisations that demand all applicants take a written English test, and an awful lot of [however many]-generation Nu Zuld folk fail to meet the grade. It sounds like snobbery, but the fact is that sticking people into a situation where they won’t be able to keep up due to basic language deficiencies in unfair to them and damages you.

      Edit: wrote “X-generation”, but didn’t mean “gen X”. We’re all cynical, but have excellent language skills 😉

      • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1

        the requirement would probably be more for the purposes of tourism outlets or export/importers,

        Well, actually, it was for builder to work in Auckland. Unfortunately, after speaking to the builder in the family, it appears that the job was several months ago and is no longer advertised.

        • McFlock

          So maybe the person supplying the job speaks Mandarin as a first language and wanted to be able to communicate with their builder.

          Sounds like an immigrant might be supplying the job, not taking it.

    • The Baron 1.3

      Wow, the irony.

      Draco, you do realise that your particular nutty brand of lefty “self-protectionism” is exactly the same as this stuff, albeit with more happy clappy language?

      For every group of Hitlers, there are the Stalins – that claim they are absolutely opposite but end up pretty much the same.

      • Colonial Viper 1.3.1

        Where the hell is there either a “group of Hitlers” or a “group of Stalins”????!

        FYI the Left is about Social Democracy and Democratic Socialism these days.

    • Rich 1.4

      Because everyone in the world speaks English. Foreigners are born speaking English, and forget it out of spite.


    • Campbell 1.5

      I think you have absolutely no idea how difficult it is for people from non-Anglosaxon nations to get work visas for NZ. The Immigration Department has a deliberate strategy of stalling on applicants just to slow up the process and make it more difficult than it needs to be.

      If they’re lucky enough to obtain work visas, they may have to spend years doing crap work that’s far below them, mainly because employers don’t want to take risks on migrant employees. We should be honoured that people want to make these sorts of sacrifices to live in our country and ashamed we aren’t doing more to make the system fairer.

      I shouldn’t also have to point out that the labour market is not zero-sum and employment fuels further employment. This means that if a business hires one migrant, then it should increase the productivity of the business and lead to born-and-bred kiwis being hired too – even perhaps some of the hateful rednecks referenced above.

  2. Deadly_NZ 2

    I would have said the Harris Gang ( I use the term loosly) but really from what i have seen on the news they wouldn’t have the nouse to write anything this clearly and use the net??? I don’t think so.

    It would’nt surprise me if it turns out to be a bunch of young guys who have lost jobs, home’s, and all their belonging’s, and got told to fark off by Brownlee, and the EQC, because they did not have any insurance. And yes all they see is foreign faces working while they struggling, it’s a recipe for unrest at least.

    • Gosman 2.1

      Yeah because there has been a lot of evidence for that sort of thing going on down in Christchurch hasn’t there?

    • Lanthanide 2.2

      Very very few people “lost all their belonging’s”.

    • Rich 2.3

      Because they had all the privileges that being white gives in our society, and still couldn’t make it, and want to blame foreigners or some other minority.

      I’ve no sympathy for white trash.

  3. Colonial Viper 3

    Great, just great.

    • ZeeBop 3.1

      Governments around the world got reports, find oil and become a superpower. German industrialists, politicians and military found a man who could link German industry with oodles of oil. His name was Hitler. He raided oil wells in Eastern Europe and then march Eastward for Capsian Oil and Middle East Oil. What was Rommel doiing in North Africa, but heading for Middle East Oil on another front.

      We are not in a great depression! We are in a long depression. Fascism will always try it on, but the obvious answer to deflate their hopes is, what oil, armies can’t march on sand! Industry can’t rush to defend the people with sand! Politicians cannot sell sand people are taking our non-existant jobs. Get real.

      Everytime we emerge from recession, oil will peak again, like the 70s. Just as we started the oil era, with supply lines to oil (a German century had Hitler not be stopped getting to Caspian Oil by the USSR), so we will end by the supply lines failing. Its been noted that it will become harder to get light crude when it all has to come from the Middle East! That when we rely on one source it won’t be in the interest of the Middle East to ship it all at once! Terrorism in the Horn of Africa is no doubt not that interesting to Saudi Arabia because it serves a purpose, to raise the price of their product.

      So get with it people, fascism isn’t going to be a major conduit for anger, the bosses are.

      • Gosman 3.1.1

        Rommel was in North Africa because Germany’s Italian allies had got themselves into a bit of a pickle in Libya.

        If your analysis wasn’t anything more than just conspiratorial nonsense why didn’t Hitler send troops through Turkey in 1940 after the defeat of France? that is a much more direct route to the oil you say they craved than going via Egypt.

        • mcflock

          “If your analysis wasn’t anything more than just conspiratorial nonsense why didn’t Hitler send troops through Turkey in 1940 after the defeat of France? that is a much more direct route to the oil you say they craved than going via Egypt.”

          Well, dusting off the old pols degree, 50 Turkish divisions could have had something to do with it, when he was already fighting the French, the English, and was planning to invade the Soviet Union (which, taking in Romania on the way, gave him Ploesti oil and a route to the Caspian that involved the Ukraine agricultural production areas, all without gaining the enmity of Germany’s principle supplier of, ISTR, chromium).

          Oh, and the support for Hitler by many German industrialists and financial leaders is well documented. A basic reading of any account of the rise of Hitler would cover it – Schirer’s “Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” is exhaustive, but should tell you more than you care to know on the subject.

          Ah, the benefits of a well rounded education – it never leaves you, even if 3/4 of it at any one time is useless for gainful employment.

  4. ak 4

    No one thought Brash and Orewa One would take off. His speech was almost identical to one from English at a local govt conference in Queenstown just weeks before, that was derided and ignored.

    But Brash is the reason National rose from 20% to where they are today.

    No he’s not. Joyce-manipulated media is.

    But even Joyce couldn’t sugar-coat this heaving rat-carcass. Especially with Tariana still the only thing between him and ACT.

    But he won’t be loving “Right-wing resistance”.

    Smiley Nicey meets his stinking base.

    Rasjoyceputin the good catholic confronts the N*zis.

  5. johnm 5

    If we are at the end of economic growth because of Peak Oil, perhaps this year the beginning of its downwards supply trajectory, then young people not just here but in the U$ and UK-$ and all round the World will be finding that there is no high paying future employment. I believe this is true refer Richard Heinberg who is bringing out a book this year called “The End of Growth”. How do especially young people cope with feelings of powerlessness and hopelessness? Students in Ireland and the UK have largely peacefully demonstrated against austerity policies in those countries.
    Not being racist due to Industrial Civilization’s decline I think Immigration from anywhere should be stopped we have enough people and they have to be fed even when the fuel is too expensive to buy to produce and transport food.
    Whatever, we must make jobs for these young people and show them respect not leave them to the dole!
    This Century is going to be a hell of a ride due to Peak oil,Climate Change, Resource run out, and environmental degradation and overshoot. So, we have to be as cohesive a society as possible reducing inequality as much as possible and in my view being socialist but not communist we all have to pull together otherwise we’ll sink separately! That’s it; we all work together or extremism will grow as sectors resent exploitation by other groups in Society! There is no more growing Pie we must share out fairly what is in all likelihood a pie that will get smaller as economies actually go into permanent contraction along with the Oil supply. The Growth Oil Fiesta is over! We are at a pivotal, major historical point of time in Human History!
    If we don’t have a cooperative sharing society we can go down the U$ route of fascist police state control where such groups are infiltrated and eventually arrested becoming fodder for American profit making prison gulags! If you know a SWAT team will bust your door down at 3am one morning due to your extreme political views, can be very discouraging!

    • ZeeBop 5.1

      NZ is sweat. As food and fuel prices spike globally world markets will want more Aluminium Smelt than Winery Nosh. And NZ has the ability to take raw food and process it with cheap alternative energy, hydro, thermal, etc. No more sheep in live crates unless Saudi pays in hard light crude, otherwise chop chop, freeze and bulk export. So look at our currency its still very high because medium to long term we are an investment less risky place. That means people globally will want to sell us high tech, and we’re want to buy high tech to insulate our exports from high dollar, and as we consume more high tech, we’re build the Nokia of the 21st century.

      Well thats if National don’t dither over broadband roll out, force punative sanctions against the people to keep them in debt and so paying global speculator class their boneses. That’s why we need a change, capital gain tax and flush the money back into the high tech industry. We have a beautiful place for the global geek elite to come for the northern winter and play and make money, geez, its all up fro grabs but will the crony backers of National get out of the way?

    • Colonial Viper 5.2

      There are plenty of $ around, and there will continue to be through any resource crunch.

      In the world they are concentrated in the hands of roughly 0.2% of the globlal population.

      None of the large industrialist families in the US in the 1930’s went hungry. Just the ordinary workers and unemployed.

    • johnm 5.3


      Also refer above link on the Peak Oil issue.

      Above link gives 19 pictures of the flood devastation in Queensland and Brisbane. We can expect more and more of this as Climate Change-a non-linear process- intensifies. 2010 has matched 1998 as the warmest year so far. Brisbane people are having a hell of a ride already! Australia’s economy would be stagnant except for their mineral exports, the same being burned in Chinese power stations are making Climate Change worse!
      Also consider as part of the “hell of a ride” this century the Oceans are virtually totally fished out.

      It’s like a family NZ. If the family is cohesive, sharing and mutually supportive it’s more likely to survive than the one where its members can’t cooperate and are divided from another and even antagonistic which is what the free market system does, not a good look for coming tough times.

      • johnm 5.3.1

        Note this is happening in Brazil the same time as the Queensland floods Climate Change!

        Brazil government says 100,000 displaced by floods
        01/09/2011 15:34
        Heavy flooding in Brazil kills 35, leaves thousands homeless, and submerges nearly 60 cities in four states
        RIO DE JANEIRO — Brazilian authorities said the number of people left homeless by flooding has risen to about 100,000 in four southeastern states.

        Reports from regional civil defense authorities showed that Minas Gerais state had been hit the hardest, with 16 dead there as of Friday. More than 4,000 homes have been damaged by rising water and landslides, and about 170 destroyed.
        Eleven more died in Sao Paulo state, where 57 cities are in a state of emergency, including the capital.

        Main thoroughfares in Sao Paulo city were swamped Saturday, and some smaller towns were entirely submerged.

  6. higherstandard 6

    It is indeed Chapman’s latest project.


    Nuts and loosers interesting that their rhetoric is very similar to some of the shite that would come from those who you’d expect to be labelled as far left, perhaps showing a commonality between these tools no matter what political camp they and we would view them in.

    What did the tea party do in the weekend – was there a riot in the states that i missed on the news ?

    • IrishBill 6.1

      very similar to some of the shite that would come from those who you’d expect to be labelled as far left

      Examples please.

      • higherstandard 6.1.1

        The railing against capitalism, government forces and serving the system the call to join a counterculture movement – it’s there all right just a slightly different nutty flavour but the same sickening taste.

        • Zorr

          Actually that comes under extreme liberalism. Part of a different political spectrum than right-left and currently, at least in the US, has been targeted by the Tea Party movement as a defining ideology. Only real difference is that in the US it has been attached to the conservative movement, in this it just seems to be attached to… ummm… an “I’m With Stupid” movement.

          As far as the anecdotal evidence goes, the skinhead population is becoming noticeable again in Christchurch. There has been a nice quiet period where you would have had to go searching for them whereas now you can just go out and come across a good couple of groups wandering around town.

        • Colonial Viper

          The railing against capitalism, government forces and serving the system

          1) Capitalism seeks to serve financial capital, not the people.
          2) Governments have a strong tendency to serve financial capital, not the people.
          3) “Serving the system”? You mean like, Serve the Man?

          A few things here worth railing about, don’t you think?

          Government should serve the people, not financial capital, resource or big business interests.

          • mcflock

            and while people might rail against capital, it is against how people with capital behave. It is not against what the people intrinsically are (such as ethnicity, religion, country of birth, or sexuality).

          • higherstandard

            Send them your suggestions they might like to include them in their webrant….. remember to make the spelling poor though.

    • john 6.2

      funny how chapman likes white,but his website is all in black?
      i was in chch a few years ago and he was running to be mayor,he got about 1600 votes,i when around ripping down his posters and putting the swastika on the ones i couldnt get off

    • Bunnykinz 6.3

      Did you actually read this website? It has some absolute corkers in there. I realise that it is against policy to quote too liberally, but if you will indulge me:

      “The system hates and fears skinheads becuase we are the only counter-culture to reject the systems liberal propaganda about multicurelism, pacifism and other politicaly correct rubbish.” Yep, you gotta hate that multicurelism!

      “they incourage the ideas being “peacful”, “loving everyone”, and all the other liberal ideals pushed onto youth at schools” Too bad Kyle wasn’t incouraged to attend school more often.

      “Therefore, white working class youth are the first to be inflicted by internationalist capiyalism.” Really? I mean, really?! Does your computer not have spell check on it? This is the website that you are using to rally us all against the evil of “multicurelism”?

      And finally: “The media pictures us as stupid and worthless to isolate us from other whites.” No Kyle, the media “pictures” you as stupid and worthless because you are stupid and worthless.

      [lprent: In this case I’ll make an exception. I don’t think I’d like this site to link to them too much. ]

      • mcflock 6.3.1

        That’s the trouble with extremeists – they either completely miss the important details because they’re fixated on their “vision”, or they become fixated on a few small details and invent a wider context for those details that diverges from reality (usually at the point of detail).

      • Deadly_NZ 6.3.2

        Personally I am surprised they can write a coherent sentance. they must be paying someone to turn their hate filled rant into something that resembles an article.

        Yep typical they hate everything coloured (or not white) but their favorite colour is black, see it proves there is a short circuit in ttheir tiny little brains.

        ANd I was born in London in the 50’s and grew up there in the times of the REAL skinheads and Bikers not like the idiot wanna be’s today

  7. sdm 7

    How did the tea party reach a ‘new level of violence’? What on earth are you referring to?

    • Eddie 7.1

      a Tea Party-inspired attempted assassination of a congresswoman and murder of six others.

      I’m surprised you missed it.

      • sdm 7.1.1

        Well ignoring the fact that it was not tea party inspired – do you blame the religion of Islam for 9/11, or the Fort Hood shootings, or do you only blame groups on the right?

        • The Voice of Reason

          Wow, so you’ve got the facts, SDM? Have you contacted the FBI to let them know what you know? It could be vital, especially as the local cops are labouring under the delusion that Laughner was influenced by the climate of hate the tea party have been so prominent in promoting.

        • IrishBill

          I blame radical Islamists and their philosophy of hate for 911 and Fort Hood. Just as I blame radical right-wingers (such as the Tea Party) and their philosophy of hate for the Tucson shootings.

          There’s a tradition of rightwing violence in the US and this is just the latest example. A list of recent examples is available here: http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/terror-arizona-just-another-isolated

          • higherstandard


            Until all the facts are known in the Tucson shooting rampage it’d probably be best not to blame anyone (apart from the shooter of course) for the incident.

            Feck who put the r and the e next to each other on the keyboard ?

            [lprent: Fixed your typing dyslexia. Have you considered registering and logging in (so I don’t suffer the er problem)? ]

            • higherstandard

              Thanks Lyn – you are clearly more computer literate then me – although that isn’t hard.

              This bit from ABC (especially the embedded video) perhaps brings a bit more light on the subject and an insight into Loughner’s mind.


              It’s scary that the according to reports the gun shop didn’t want to sell him the gun but felt they had to because he had a clean FBI record.

              [lprent: Please.. My name is Lynn. My partners name is Lyn. The extra ‘n’ is important in this case. ]

              • higherstandard

                I think my sincere apologies should go to your partner – she should clearly be outraged that I mistook you for her than vice versa !!

            • Deadly_NZ

              Thats why it’s called a QWERTY keyboard if you don’t like it there are some other layouts, however having used this kind of keyboard for so long I think you would have a bigger problem with a Dvorak keyboard

              Or even a colemac keyboard

              lol life aint so much fun as when you have choices lol Have a nice day.. your choice

            • Macro

              “Sholes, a U.S mechanical engineer, invented the first practical modern typewriter, patented in 1868.

              However, there was a problem with the typewriter as it jams up easily (think of the ancient four tiered typewriter whose keys tend to fly up and stick together)

              To reduce the possibility of it jamming up, James Densmore,a Business associate, suggested splitting up keys for letters commonly used together to slow down typing.

              The salemen for the typewriter then decided to use the QWERTY system because if you look carefully, notice that you can type the word ‘typewriter’ without ur fingers ever leaving the top row? Heh. Legend has it that the salemen arranged the words this way to impress the buyers on how they can type the word ‘typewriter’ without ever needing to lift their fingers off the first row. (cue: woah~ so smart~~)

              As the typewriter slowly evolved to the keyboard, the QWERTY system held its place and is now the most well used system.”

          • sdm

            He is a registered independant, didnt vote in 2010, and enjoyed the comunist manefesto. Sometimes the facts dont fit

            • The Voice of Reason

              And Mein Kampf, sdm. He read a lot and seems to be obsessed with language. His behaviour and fixations in the period immediately before the shooting suggests strongly that he bought into the tea party rhetoric. The crap about ‘dreamers awake’ or whatever, the nonsense question to Giffords about government and grammar, the targetting of Giffords, (as requested by Sarah Palin), the use of a gun to make a political point, all suggest he was a sad young man duped by the climate of hate.

              But keep hoping it’s not Palin or Beck’s fault, if you want. Won’t change the facts.

              • sdm

                Actually its not Palins fault. Nor is it Becks. It was a nutter. The attempt to politicise this is disgusting. this is a tragedy, as was fort Hood, and the consequence of a mentally derranged individual. He wasnt even a member of the tea party!!! There is no evidence for your claims, except liberal propaganda.

                by the way:

                • The Voice of Reason

                  Er, I think you’ll find it was politicised the moment Laughner shot a politician. He may well be ill, but he shot someone Sarah Palin wanted gone. And Palin chose to use hunting graphics and terminology to make the point. Do you see the possible link now?

                • Colonial Viper

                  Get over your false self-righteousness, assassinations have been major political events since *forever*. They have and will change the course of governments and the course of countries.


            • Bright Red

              I would imagine a lot of Teabaggers are independents and the hardcore wouldn’t vote for anyone less than perfect.

              Everything about the guy screams mentally unbalanced Randite. The obsession with the truth underlying (or hidden by) language and the inclusion of ‘we the living’ in his book list are give aways.

              the confused currency argument is pure Tea Party

              And you can’t deny that the Tea Party has promoted a culture of violence towards elected officials.

              • Pascal's bookie

                “And you can’t deny that the Tea Party has promoted a culture of violence towards elected officials.”

                A Tucson Arizona Republican Party official has resigned citing his family’s fears of tea party inspired violence.

                Also: Check this out and tell me the right wing rhetoric is just normal healthy shit that couldn’t possibly be held responsible for anything no sir we ain’t saying nothing so stop politicising a little ol’ assassination attempt.

          • Draco T Bastard

            Another list of RWNJs calling for people to be killed here.

        • ZeeBop

          Goes out into woods. Digs pit. Puts spikes in bottom of pit. Goes home. Tells local children chocolate eggs are hidden in woods.

          Tea party, pushes policies that means mental patients don’t get treatment, then goes home, tells everyone democrats are destroying America.

          Please explain?

          • Pascal's bookie

            Yep. If you went around the rougher pubs in town saying that ‘so and so’ was a narc, and ‘so and so’ ended up in intensive care, then obvioulsy you would be blameless.

            “The guy that put him in intensive care was a criminal ferfucksake!! Nothing to do with me” he shouted, convincingly.

            • ZeeBop

              If Democrats could destroy America I’d be damn careful what I said about them, if they run the media too, damn they wouldn’t be easy to cross.

              Democrats are destroying America is so a lie its impressive that anyone running for President would say it!

  8. happynz 8

    I’ve seen a couple of these sorts of clowns hereabouts in Christchurch. They were wearing black t-shirts with a silly skull thing-a-ma-bob and white power legend of some sort screen printed on ’em. They also had mohawks and lots of Aryan Power tattoos scrawled across their noggins and down their arms. They were both trying to look really scary, but because both of them were reedy short little guys they weren’t really getting any attention. Central Christchurch around the bus exchange is a circus sideshow most days and these two didn’t seem to be getting much response.

  9. Akldnut 9

    The fact that the abbreviation of the name in the email address doesn’t match the order of the words written just above it suggests they’re not too smart.

    thats pretty lame eddie, not much in that – I would suggest that the fact they made it out of their school years with this implied social attitude and being a member of this group of dickheads would be the major indicator of their diminished mental capacity.

    …….leaving working-class Pakeha in quake-damaged homes while handing over the beaches to the Maori,……

    LOL I’m still eagerly waiting to see that happen.

    • Bright Red 9.1

      “The fact that the abbreviation of the name in the email address doesn’t match the order of the words written just above it suggests they’re not too smart.

      thats pretty lame”

      I don’t know. I thought that was pretty funny. Well spotted too.

      I guess they were orginally going to be Right Wing Resistance New Zealand

      • Akldnut 9.1.1

        yeah probablly right with that – should’ve been RWNJNZ @ hotmail.com

        [lprent: Adjusted to make sure our system doesn’t think it is an e-mail address. ]

  10. Sanctuary 10

    The symbol chosen by this new group couldn’t be more explicitly and militantly Nazi. The wolfsangel was the divional symbol for the notorious II Waffen-SS Panzer Division “Das Reich” and the super imposed stylised deaths head is the exact divional symbol of the III Totenkopf (“deathshead”) Waffen-SS Panzer division. Both these formations engaged in savage war crimes as a matter of routine, the massacre of 642 innocent French civilians in the village of Oradour-sur-Glane on June 10 1944 by troops of Das Reich being notable only in it occurring in Western Europe.

    These idiots seem to think they can get away with using such inflamatory insignia because people won’t grasp just how offensive it actually is. The seventeen people in the photo should be identified, and then someone should call their mums and tell what they are up to, it may explain why they didn’t make their bed that day.

    • prism 10.1

      Sanctuary – Hitler I think got established with the help of thugs and standover men acting against numbers of citizens, not limited to the Jewish hate campaign.
      The shift of human allegiance to an idea can be quite fast apparently. A minor example is the change from viewing Anderton positively as Christchurch mayor to preferring Bob Parker for just doing his job.

      Once the clear road to action of primal urges to strike down, dominate and cause suffering is opened, the susceptible followers willingly come forward to access the power to hurt and repress given them. Such as the brutality of soldiers (many), the service of Guantanamo-type warders and torturers, even the sexual attacks in Haiti and other large camps.

      • Colonial Viper 10.1.1

        As usual the Right know how to read and exploit the deep under currents of discontent, emotion and feeling in a community better than the cerebral Left.

    • pollywog 10.2

      I’ve often been taken for an online white supremacist just for having the pseudonym Pollywog and also cos my logo looks a bit menacing ?


      BTW here’s my full self appointed title…

      Pollywog…Minister for Disinformation at the Dep’t of Hell Science

      it was a kind of S1W from Public Enemy and Underground Resistance type of thing.

      Dunno eh ? still a work in progress though more probably as street art…

      funnily enough, we were from Christ city too


  11. Sanctuary 11

    I wonder if hotmail know they are being used as an address for a right wing hate group?

    From Microsoft’s code of conduct:
    You will not upload, post, transmit, transfer, distribute or facilitate distribution of any content (including text, images, sound, video, data, information or software) or otherwise use the service in a way that:

    Incites, advocates, or expresses pornography, obscenity, vulgarity, profanity, hatred, bigotry, racism, or gratuitous violence.


    threatens, stalks, defames, defrauds, degrades, victimizes or intimidates an individual or group of individuals for any reason; including on the basis of age, gender, disability, ethnicity, sexual orientation, race or religion; or incites or encourages anyone else to do so.

    • Deadly_NZ 11.1

      Your talking Miccysoft here they cant even get a web browser to run properly, and you want them to sort out and ban a few RWNJ sites??? They too busy screwing up the next release of Internet Exploder.

    • QoT 11.2

      Like Hotmail cares, they’re probably so delighted to be getting new signups they’ll take anyone.

  12. Rosy 12

    “But reactionaries never are smart. What they are is militant, populist, and attractive to young, unemployed (men) who have seen their promised future disappear and are receptive when told that ‘outsiders’ are to blame”.

    It always surprises me that the group that bears most of the cost of social programmes are the working poor (and particularly hard hit are young white males, IMO) – rarely the wealthy. Yet these young men never blame those who so carelessly impose the burden of social justice on the working poor, only those who might be gaining some long overdue social justice (e.g. women, minorities).

    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      We should watch this carefully, in the US (and even the gangs here in NZ) a cadre of very smart well resourced operators manipulate these front line muscle groups to get their dirty work done.

      Sure, the front line operations and soldiers may not always be that sophisticated or organised. But they are sometimes only the obvious public face of a much deeper intention.

      The Koch group vis a vis the Tea Party is just one Right Wing example of this.

  13. Matthew Hooton 13

    David Farrar has done a magnificant post this morning in response to yours – see http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/01/another_flyer.html Spot the difference. And this is the guy the Labour Party wants to go into coalition with.

    • Pascal's bookie 13.1

      It’s an interesting flyer allright Matthew, an attack on Labour’s immigration policy from a politician who later complained that Brash was copying his immigration policy.

      • RobertM 13.1.1

        Matthew dosen’t get it. It is really Coddington and Newman and the current Act party which fit the anti immigration, racist, work as the point of life, starve the bludgers rhetoric so much better than Winston. They like the republican tea party facists declaim the the US decleration of Independence-0 selectively…all men are created equally… the pursuit of happiness.
        All the current right wing parties are opposed to sex and pleasure. They all advocate work for social control rather than doing it if your good at it and productive.So don’t vote for any of them. Possibly follow Mark Lantham’s advice and don’t vote.
        Muldoon was the real NZ kiwi dictator. He put Banks and Peters into parliament against advice, sense and freedom. He elevated Grosser and Simon Murdoch in the ‘foreign policy is trade’, MFAT. Those are the four most unforgivable appointments in NZ History. No one has been as remotely hard on Muldoon as he deserves. Before he was elected in l933, Hitler had virutally no support among the unemployed or city working class. Muldoon had huge catholic working class support.
        Frankly it isn’t the Harris Gang thats going to do right wing rule in kiwiland, its Judy and the NACT boys. The Nats are a divided little circus. Watch the hollowmen and watch how easily Blinglish, Smith and Scott were conned when it came to the crunch. By who, John Key. And who was always at the Brash side in those difficult moments, Judith Collins.
        And another thing, Mr Hooton, if you want to impress the Americans you have to show some genuine actual support it terms of blood and money devoted to defence. My belief is the reason brash didn’t get in in 2005, is that it was obvious in Washington they would get even less real support from Don than Helen. Don shuttles off to Washington to meet all the hawks. He leaves the meetings,’We didn’t even discuss defence or the nuclear issue. Don defence and strategic matters is all they think about. And that National idiot Keenan who Hager praises. dismissing F-16s as of no value and for reactionaries, ignores the fact half the population supported them.

    • The Economic Illiteracy Support Group 13.2

      Matthew – slow down, you’re hyperventilating again. And put down the can of Red Bull, it’s making you even more incoherently twitchy than normal.

      Two words: Iwi/Kiwi.

    • Zorr 13.3

      Ah, the good ol’ race-baiting card. So who do you vote for then Hooton? The National Party whose leader in 2005 made the infamous Orewa speech?

      What will you be saying if NZF and Winston end up kingmaker again and Jonkey is forced to enter a coalition with him? Or will Mr Smile-and-Wave step aside at that point and allow Blinglish or Joyce to swallow that dead rat?

    • Bright Red 13.4

      Is that the same guy who was a National MP for 12 years and a Treasurer in the National-led government? I’m just trying to remember.

      You won’t find many on the Left defending Peters’ race-baiting. We’re much more comfortable with his rejection of failed neoliberal economics and his argument that New Zealand’s ability to choose its path in the world is dependent on economic independence.

      Of course, Matthew, you were advising National’s leader during its descent into utter racism, when its leader said that gay New Zealanders weren’t ‘mainstream’. You pulled a salary when National was at its most reactionary since the 1930s.

    • orange whip? 13.5

      David Farrar has done a magnificant post this morning in response to yours

      Farrar’s “magnificance” in posting that anti-labour flyer is rather undermined by his readers, who largely seem to approve of it’s racist nationalism (surprise surprise).

      In fact the “magnificant” comment thread he has started looks set to descend into something Kyle Chapman would be proud to publish.

      • mcflock 13.5.1

        yeah – I stopped reading when they were getting into a discussion about the uncleanliness of Chinese toilets and associated behaviour.

        • Hateatea

          I needed to go read some children’s literature to remind myself that all writing isn’t filth after looking there today. Sheesh!!!

  14. The Economic Illiteracy Support Group 14

    I was standing in Parliament’s grounds a few years back when the neo-Nazis had their annual flag-waving exercise, and as they came past a mate leans over and says, “These clowns are meant to be NZ’s Master Race? Most of them look as though they couldn’t even spell Master Race …”

  15. Bill 15

    Eddie, while I agree with you that economic hardship tends to encourage a degree of finger pointing and a playing of the ‘blame game’ by recipients of hardship when that hardship becomes widespread, my heart sinks when I read your prescriptive conclusion, ie …the Left (especially Labour) needs to offer those unemployed working-class kids something better than the reactionaries – a real alternative economic, and hope.

    I guess I’m going to get shot down or this, but I don’t see any sense in investing hope in Labour. None at all.

    Basically, the political divide is between ruling elites and us, the people. And Labour accommodated the ruling elites at least as far back as ’84 and continues to do so today. One fairly major example of a continuing capitulation of Labour to elites during ‘the Clark’ years is the Employment Relations Act which foisted Labour’s sense of accommodation on workers and their unions through ‘Good Faith’ provisions that attracted fines up to $10 000 if transgressed. (Obviously a max fine of $10 000 means nothing to a corporate employer but causes a small union to hesitate). And need I mention the ridiculously prescriptive laws placed around striking? Labour put a firm lid on the very struggle that it was birthed from and legislated for ‘partnership’ and ‘good faith’, effectively leaving workers with an empty armoury and the threat of punishment should they not quite agree with Labour that ‘war was over’.

    There are other examples of policy that arguably mark this accommodation and or capitulation by Labour. E.g. ‘Working for Families’ was arguably a sop to major employers that would keep upward pressure on wages muted. And what was it with all those laws that enhanced the powers of the police and the SIS thus undermining the privacy and rights of citizens? And was Labour’s stand on GE guided by anything other than a desire to mollify ‘big business’?

    If there was evidence of a core within Labour that continued to espouse policies inimical to contemporary Labour policies of capitulation and accommodation, then there might be a case for placing hope in Labour. But the Labour party was very successful in ‘cleansing’ itself when it shifted ground in the 80’s.

    • SPC 15.1

      Given Labour was increasing the minimum wage from 9 to $12 around the time WFF was brought it, I’m not sure they were working for employers in doing either. The National Paty was well funded when opposiong WFF in 2005.

  16. Tim 16

    I think I would be more worried if the saps that created the advertisement could punctuate correctly. Perhaps their odd compulsion to use random capital letters harbours a secret message.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 16.1

      Its the latest right wing obsession, using grammar to control our minds.

      I suggest we call it Loughnerism

  17. burt 17

    It is good to see Winston has wound back his campaign material to just hysterical proportions rather than his normal completely insane ramblings.

    • lprent 17.1

      So you might vote for NZF? I’ve often thought that you’d be a perfect candidate for NZF’s policies

    • burt 17.2

      No not me lprent. I think politicians should have some integrity and have a bigger agenda than just being popular and getting elected. That’s why unlike you I don’t currently support Labour.

    • burt 17.3

      Oh, but it is good to see the x-minister of racing no longer making pathetic jokes about a shortage of cats in Howick.

  18. roger nome 18

    The left need leaders that can engage with, and inspire working-class people (the bulk of the population). At the moment we have a simpering, hand-wringing cold fish as a leader. Goff is unwilling or unable to show nz a bold, humane and vital vision that differs significantly in substance to NACTs. Goff is looking more and more like a centre-right manager, rather than an inspirational and courageous leader.

    After he loses the next election for the left hopefully we will have the good sense to choose a real leader.

  19. Afewknowthetruth 19

    There is no left or right. They are just outmoded labels being used by TPTB be to control and manipulate the proles. Labour and National both promote policies that are ultra-friendly to international corporations and money-lenders, as required. They simply take turns are wielding the wrecking ball, which provides the facade of democracy. Anyone who does not fit the PTP mould (of sabotage of the communtiy via debt slavery etc.) does not get elected. In Britain it’s Tory/New Labour (and now Liberal) that promote the same policies. In the US it’s Democrat/Republican that promote the same policies. Everywhere it’s the same. Puppets as frontmen/frontwomen for the hidden hands of real power.

    By the way, concrete and steel buildings do not fall at free-fall speed in their own footprints as a consequence of short-lived, low temperature fires; titanium-steel engines of airliners do not evaporate when they crash (Pentagon incident). The falling towers of 9/11 were a demolition job, performed to get rid of old buildings with a serious asbestos problem at a profit, via insurance claims and put options on airlines. 9/11 was a false flag operation, a prelude to overseas invasions to control resources and removal of freedoms domestically, whilst stirring patriotic fervour amongst the ignorant masses.
    Western ‘democracies’ have been covert police states for decades (one could argue centuries in some cases). The prime purpose of police/security forces is to maintian the status quo, i.e. ensure the continued flow of wealth upwards (and overseas in the case of NZ).

    Just how things will pan out now that we are living in a post peak oil world is anyone’s guess. Orwell prophesied a world of war-without-end, whilst Huxley prophesied a world of dumbed down consumers. But neither recognised the finite aspect or resources, or the limited capacity of the Earth to process our waste. We are living in a world which has numerous aspects of both Huxley and Orwell, but the consumerism aspect is rapidly coming to an end.

    Yes, there will be increasingly hard times, especially for lower and middle NZ. No, there will never be a recovery of the economic system because all the factors that made the system possible (increasing energy supplies, land to be ‘developed’, cheap abundant resources, oceans full of fish etc.) are disappearing fast.

    In view of the stranglehold TPTP have on society, we should not be surprised if the march towards a fully-fledged fascist state does not accelerate.

    Long term our descendents are likely to end up hunter-gatherers. That’s if the Earth remains habitable: we are in for severe environmental collapse over coming few decades.

    • The Baron 19.1

      So much crazy in one post.

      • higherstandard 19.1.1

        Reminds me a bit of good old Eve – although she’s not quite as off the planet as that

      • Afewknowthetruth 19.1.2

        Only someone who is ignorant of the facts and is caught in the web of deceiit, or is crazy would respond thus.

        Even as the system is visibly failing, and failing catastrophically on all fronts, those caught in the trap continue to believe it has a future and will provide for them.

        It’s rather sad. But as Derrick Jensen noted quite some time ago, people caught in the trap are unreachable.

    • Draco T Bastard 19.2

      The Earth will remain habitable – just not necessarily habitable by us.

      • QoT 19.2.1

        Michael Crichton phrased it nicely (if wordily):

        “You think man can destroy the planet? What intoxicating vanity. Let me tell you about our planet. Earth is four-and-a-half-billion-years-old. There’s been life on it for nearly that long, 3.8 billion years. … Earth has survived everything in its time. It will certainly survive us. If all the nuclear weapons in the world went off at once and all the plants, all the animals died and the earth was sizzling hot for a hundred thousand years, life would survive, somewhere: under the soil, frozen in Arctic ice. Sooner or later, when the planet was no longer inhospitable, life would spread again. The evolutionary process would begin again. It might take a few billion years for life to regain its present variety … A million years is nothing. This planet lives and breathes on a much vaster scale. … We’ve been residents here for the blink of an eye. If we’re gone tomorrow, the earth will not miss us.”

        • lprent

          Exactly. I’m not worried about the earth. It is hard to make a living planet lose its life. If there is a remanent anywhere then it will regenerate the whole biosphere.

          However species extinctions happen all of the time, mostly to species that are at the top of the food chain or have become too over specialized. Environmental changes of shifting climates or new competitors get them.

          Humans are at the top of the food chain and their reliance on complex social structures to produce that food makes us quite vunerable to exinction. Destroying the climate stability that allowed us to develop the agriculture that sustains our populations makes us vulnerable. Our collective stupidity in not curtailing the climate changing effluents of our civilization is likely to destroy food pyramid that we live on.

    • Colonial Viper 19.3

      Just how things will pan out now that we are living in a post peak oil world is anyone’s guess. Orwell prophesied a world of war-without-end, whilst Huxley prophesied a world of dumbed down consumers.

      Not the consumers scenario – resources too scarce and people too poor.

      The war without end – may not be a military war, but a class and financial one. If that is the case – we are already there.

  20. marco 20

    I think it’s extremely unfair to caste Christchurch as a breeding ground for race-hate, it’s mainly a media perception the reality (having spent most of my life in Chch) is extremely different.

    This group are clowns and don’t have any standing in the Christchurch community. I read an article last year when they were patrolling New Brighton at nights trying to “keep the streets safe” and from memory their membership numbers around 19 and their headquarters is a garage.

    • ghostwhowalksnz 20.1

      Come on marco, the numbers may be small, but its zero in most other NZ cities

      • Colonial Viper 20.1.1

        Nelson has made it into the news a good number of times.

      • marco 20.1.2

        These clowns are no different to Black Power or the Mongrel Mob. They are the people from disadvantaged backgrounds with few options who band together and try and intimidate.

        I also think you’re blind to think that small racist groups don’t exist in other centres in New Zealand. I’ve seen skinheads in extremely small numbers throughout New Zealand. They have been around for decades and groups like this spring up from time to time and then fade away.

        It is interesting to note that the Nationalist Alliance (a partnership between two skinhead groups) formed to contest the 2008 election but were unable to organise enough members to register.

    • pollywog 20.2

      yeah, dunno bout ‘race’ hate, but theres definitely been a rather exclusive old money white boys club running tings proper in ChCh since day one…

      …just gotta look at the 2 young turks added to the roster in the recent local body elections

      say isn’t Key from churtown too ?… and hasn’t a disproportionately shitload of recent PM’s and political movers and shakers been from there too ?

      it’s not called the whitest city in the world for nothing. I mean, just the names Christchurch and the Crusaders just reeks of rampant caucasoidalism 🙂

  21. What this flyer and discussion proves is that public perception on migration – largely driven by sensationalist media storys – is very different from immigration fact.

    There have been calls to tighten immigration and make it tougher to get into NZ, but few people have any idea of what the current rules are, government quotas, or for example the difference between temporary and permanent migrants.

    1) NZ has an extremely tight immigration policy – if the general population of any given country had to pass NZ’s tests only a small proportion would pass. We are looking for and get the best of what we need to create economic benefit.

    2) Migrants are vetted for good health, character, skills, qualifications and English language to ensure they offer benefit to New Zealand.

    3) Migrants do not have access to benefits: Temporary workers don’t have any right to benefits at all and even permanent residents can’t get any benefits for two years.

    4) All applications for work are tested to ensure there are no New Zealanders available. Only where it can be proved there is no one available will the migrant be allowed to take the job. Statistics show that skilled migrants actually create jobs for others.

    5) Because of vetting crime rates amongst migrants are lower than the national average.

    6) It’s also been confirmed that dropping migration levels would reduce NZ’s GDP by 9.6% by 2021, causing a 10.9% drop in the labour force and affecting every New Zealander’s per capita income.

    Having worked with migrants for years I have found that the vast majority love and deeply respect this country, know a great deal about it and aim to be a positive addition to our society no matter what their colour or country of origin.

    A few simple facts around immigration are all that is needed to show that this group (and many of the people posting about this) are confused and poorly informed. However our government also does not understand immigration.

    Affecting the economy
    Few realise how important immigration is to New Zealand’s economy, bringing in billions of dollars (2006: $8.1b gross and $3.3b net) every year.

    Arguably one of the reasons New Zealand has been suffering through this recession is that the government kicked hundreds of highly skilled workers out in 2009 and have since quietly cut immigration by 30% while publicly maintaining that quotas have not changed.

    When you consider that on average a skilled migrant family brings around $250,000 into the country (which goes straight into local businesses) this reduction is counterproductive and at odds to public statements that migration is vital to helping NZ out of recession.

    Affecting NZ business
    Businesses unable to get key skilled workers now are unable to grow out of the recession. Many who find perfect applicants are blocked from hiring them due to market testing based on flawed data.

    Imagine after advertising for months and getting nothing you suddenly have the perfect candidate in front of you. Experience, skills, qualifications, the whole package. You wait months to hear back from immigration and are then told “No”. Why? Because the WINZ database used for market testing says there is a kiwi ‘somewhere’ who can do the job.

    None of this is good for NZ. I would like to see an informed discussion on these issues as this issue deeply affects every New Zealander.

  22. Afewknowthetruth 22

    By the way, Brent oil was $72 in July 2010, in December it was $92 and today is over $97.

    The next of round of economic implosion is underway, and all those who presently mock and laugh will be just as screwed as everyone else.

    The only way out of this mess we’re in is to step outside the false paradigms provided by TPTB (and promulgated by the coprorate media). That is something most people are incapable of doing.

  23. Chris73 23

    What I don’t like about this is it reinforces the notion that everyone who is right-wing (as I am) is one step away from being a skin head (which I most certainly am not)

    Kind of like saying anyone who is left-wing may as well join the communist party

    • The Voice of Reason 23.1

      That’s nicely put, Chris. And for historical balance, can I point out that not every skinhead is a righty either. There are still a few punks who love the short haired rock n roll, but totally reject the neo nazi elements in that scene. It’s a battle that’s been going on since the seventies when the likes of the oi bands co-opted a look favoured by kids who were absolutely not racist but rejected the hippy look.

      I think the DK’s said it best. Nazi Punks Fuck Off.

  24. henry olongo 24

    ‘If I spoke another language other than english , I for sure would be yelling it from rooftops’

    Well, the reality down here is that people do get bashed, insulted and abused for their difference, ESPECIALLY IF THEY ARE WOMEN & CHILDREN. These bottom feeder nazis just say what lots of local white people think (echoes of Paul Henry). Solution- more immigration!

  25. Afewknowthetruth 25

    I don’t think you get it Mike.

    ‘It’s also been confirmed that dropping migration levels would reduce NZ’s GDP by 9.6% by 2021’

    GDP is a fabrication of economists, a set of abstracts which takes no note of real world factors and simply measure money shifting from one place to another, most of that shifting being done courtesy of cheap oil.

    We are living in a post peak oil world (which is why economies are collapsing). The economic growth game is now over (except perhaps in China, India and one or two other places, where it may continue for a while longer, as other economies go under).

    By 2021 internationally traded oil will be down to around half the present figure (at best) and NZ will be scratching to have any economy in the present sense of the word.

    • Afewknowthetruth: I am aware of peak oil issues but I am also aware of the global fight to collect and retain highly skilled workers that New Zealand is currently losing.

      My main points concerned the position that little reporting or discussion on immigration issues show any awareness of the facts.

      Regarding the economy, immigration is proven to add billions of dollars of income into the New Zealand economy. The last year I have figures for (2006) the net ‘profit’ for NZ was $3.3 billion. This is not a fabrication or abstract concept, this is cash from other countries going straight into our local businesses.

      The cause of the recession is well known. The lack of improvement in New Zealand’s economy is increasingly understood, but my other points bared the fact that New Zealand’s employers are being denied important skilled staff they need to create jobs, generate business and growth.

      As I mentioned, the government’s quiet decision to drastically cut immigration (while trumpeting it as a vital resource for recovery) is odd. The government has instead concentrated on generating investment income (the profits from which would got mostly offshore) but dismally failed to generate traction with publicised failures such as the poorly thought out new routes for entrepreneurs and retirees.

      Do you disagree with my points? If so, why?

      • Colonial Viper 25.1.1

        I am also aware of the global fight to collect and retain highly skilled workers that New Zealand is currently losing.

        We don’t really need these workers in NZ do we?: we have little interesting for them to do here, and when we do, we offer them far less than they can get in Australia.

        Regarding the economy, immigration is proven to add billions of dollars of income into the New Zealand economy. The last year I have figures for (2006) the net ‘profit’ for NZ was $3.3 billion.

        One question: in this statistic, how does one immigrant family moving to NZ end up contributing towards the $3.3B income figure? I am interested in what this statistic actually ads up.

        The lack of improvement in New Zealand’s economy is increasingly understood, but my other points bared the fact that New Zealand’s employers are being denied important skilled staff they need to create jobs, generate business and growth.

        To clarify: you are saying that jobs are being advertised internationally by NZ companies, and for immigration reasons, NZ businesses cannot get the staff they want onboard due to problems accessing work visas etc.?

        • Mike - move2nz

          Actually yes we do need key workers with experience and skills. You may be aware for example of shortages in medical areas which are now causing services to close, for example oncology, pediatrics and even general practice.

          To take your example of one family: the family pays thousands in fees and levies to the NZ government. They bring (on average) $250,000 into the country and spend this in local businesses buying furniture, a car, household items and put a deposit on a home. Being of good health they cost little or nothing to the health service and cannot claim any form of benefit. The worker, being highly skilled, gets a well paid position and pays tax on this.

          Migrants pay fees (for example around $11 million is collected annually in the Migrant Levy alone). They bring their wealth and life-savings with them and invest it into this country, cost very little and generate an overall gain.

          Regarding jobs, here is a common situation I have seen many times. You are an employer and need a highly skilled and experienced key person to grow/sustain your business. You advertise the role in NZ for months and hear nothing, in the meantime your business which employs many New Zealanders is affected.

          A migrant in NZ who is perfectly suited for the role contacts. You apply to immigration to hire the person and after waiting 4 months are told “No” because the WINZ database used by immigration states there is one citizen somewhere in NZ who can do the job. I have seen dozens of examples of this including employers with foreign staff being denied the ability to keep them on despite there being no kiwis to fill the roles.

          Even if immigration says “Yes” it takes on average 3 months for a work permit to be processed even when fast-tracked while the employer waits for their new employee to start. In 2008 a visa like this could be processed in under an hour.

          This is damaging NZ businesses, costing New Zealanders jobs, losing our economy money and is a factor slowing this county’s ascent from recession.

          • Colonial Viper

            Well in the circumstances that you described, that immigration process you described needs a good swift kick up the ass.

            Thanks for your response.

            By the way I know a major firm in AKL who has lost half a dozen senior engineers and technologists to Australian firms in the last 12 months. Yes you may be able to replace the bodies, but that institutional knowledge and experience is hard to rebuild.

            Attracting the right people and and getting them legal to work is one issue. Retaining existing talent is another one. No good having a revolving door of talent coming in and going straight back out.

            This country has big problems in this area and what you have described is one facet of it.

      • Afewknowthetruth 25.1.2

        Yes Mike, I do disagree with your points.

        Firstly the lack of skilled personnel is a myth. There are tens of thousands of highly skilled people in NZ who are unable to obtain suitable employment. The last position I applied for attracted nine highly qualified applicants (degree or higher) but the employer chose none of them and instread advertised overseas because none had immediate experience in the particular field (undoubtedly most applicants would have got up to speed with a month or two).

        You say the net profit from bringing migrants into NZ was $3.3 billion. That figure was undoubtedly obtained by skewing certain figures and ignoring other factors altogether. In practice most of the profit was actually a loss. To see how that works you have to recognise that on average NZ spends $1 billion a month more than it earns, i.e. $250 per person per month, mostly on imported oil, imported food and consumer goods such as cars, barbeques, outdoor furniture… it just goes on and on.

        If you look at housing, most people have mortgages held by foreign-owned banks, the money notionally borrowed on the international market (at higher than average interest rate, due to the small size and ‘instability’ of NZ). The more people we import into NZ, the more money flows out of the country in mortgage repayments, insurance and payments for imports.

        And don’t forget that most of the money does not even exist: it is simply computer digits that have been created out of thin air via the fractional reserve banking system

        The other little-disciussed aspect is this. We are already in substantial population overshoot, particuarly in the larger cities, which have populations far exceeding the carrying capacity of their land bases. Every additional mouth that is added means one additional death via starvation a few years down the track, when the industrialised agricultural system goes into severe decline, as it must when oil depletion passes a critical point. (phophorus is looking awfully dicey too)

        I think your error in the last paragraph is in assuming the governement acts in the best interest of the nation or to promote the welfare of the people. They might well say that they are leading us towards ‘a better, brighter future’ (as is churned out at every election), but in reality almost everything official is completely Orwellian (war is peace, ignorance is strength, the chocolate ration has been increased from 25g per week to 20g per week, etc.). It is the prime function of a PM to mislead the populace, but make them think it’s for their own good.

        If you are familiar with the Local Government Act 2002 yiu will note that the purpose of local government is defined as, amongst other things, to promote the welfare of the community and the environment in the present and in the future: all councils do this by covering s much agricultural land as possible in conrete and asphalt, raiseing pollution levels, spending, spending, spending communities into perpetual debt servitude, the spending often on grandiose projects that contribute nothing of substance to the community and will have no utility whatsoever in the near future if they have any now, i.e. artworks, events centres (and direct subsidising of events), even sewage works have no long term functionality, since they cannot operate without electricty or oil, both of which will vanish over the coming years. And off this futile activity uses up our precious oil supply and generates additional greenhouse gases that are flagged to render the planet largely uninhabitable.

        In other words we are in population overshoot, consumption overshoot, and energy overshoot, and the bills are owed to Nature, which is now in the process of demanding payment!

        I trust it all makes sense.

        • Mike - move2nz

          Afewknowthetruth: I see you are someone who doesn’t let the facts get in the way of firmly held beliefs and have a habit of straying way off discussion. I think we’ll agree to disagree on this as I have no interest in discussing foreign owned banks, the mysteries of money that is not money or the Local Government Act.

          For anyone wishing to discuss immigration issues and effects I’m your man.

          • SPC

            Money brought in by migrants pushes up the housing price here. That requires greater mortgage sourced foreign debt. That cost is not factored in to the economic benefits of migrants – nor probably are the consequences of road congestion. As to the way the access to migrant workers allows wages to be kept low, keeping ours as a low wage economy …

  26. randal 26

    at the moment everyone is splitting for oz to get work on the disaster so there is work for everyone.
    but in the meantime to combat racism and other travesties the left must aquire its own outlets to combat the steady stream of right wing blather emanating from a right wing media that has just resulted in a mass murder in the US as wella s countless other nonsenses propagated by the rabid right.

  27. Afewknowthetruth 27

    Tom Whipple’s take on political mendacity and violence in the US.

    There seems to be little difference in NZ.

    The peak oil crisis: civil unrest
    by Tom Whipple
    4.88889.Average: 4.9 (9 votes)
    Please Log in or register to rate this article.

    Buried in the millions of words that were written about the shootings in Arizona last week was a recent poll showing that only 13 percent of the American people think favorably of the U.S. Congress. The implication, of course, is that as 87 percent or roughly 270 million Americans harbor some level of animosity towards their elected federal representatives, the emergence of people who believe that exercising their 2nd Amendment rights is a solution to the nation’s woes is inevitable.

    Why are so many, so mad at the Congress? The answer is simple – they have no idea what is happening to their lives. Since the beginning of the great recession way back in 2007 they have been told by two Presidents, their senior officials, 99 percent of the Congress, and most of the media that recovery was on the way and that prosperity would return shortly.

    As unemployment in the U.S. grew and grew, every politician with a prayer of winning positioned him or herself as the “jobs” candidate who could and would get us all working at good high-paying jobs again. This of course has not returned and is unlikely to do so. We are not only contending with a growing debt bubble of gigantic proportions, we are also rapidly running out of the cheap, abundant energy that allowed us to be so prosperous for the last 200 years.

    America’s problem today is that almost nobody in any official position is willing to publicly recognize the real nature of the problem we face and start talking about realistic solutions. So long as our elected officials and our media continue to speak endlessly about the recovery that is supposedly underway and continue to hold out the hope that, by voting for this or that candidate, all will be well, the great charade will continue and the people will get madder and madder.

    The lack of realism on the part of those in a position to lead public opinion, and the endless repletion of fictions, such as the U.S. unemployment rate now being only 9.4 percent, has left open the door to what were once thought of as extremists to join the political debate and even the Congress. Proposals that are tantamount to national, or perhaps even global, suicide such as defaulting on the national debt, rolling back health care, or dropping environmental regulation are seriously debated as solutions to creating more jobs.

    The real problem, of course, is that without a continually growing source of cheap and abundant energy, such as that provided by fossil fuels, there will never again be significant economic growth in the sense to which we have become accustomed. It is inevitable that we are all going to get much poorer, in a material sense, and this is the great secret of our age that so far few have had the courage to express. The easier path has been Keynesian stimulation of the economy, government bailouts of what were held to be key financial and industrial institutions, and tax cuts to mollify those who believe all problems stem from taxes. These measures were accompanied by endless expressions of hope that things would soon be better.

    However, as the real economic situation continues to deteriorate in the midst of so little appreciation of why it is happening, frustrations with the political system grows and grows. In America, we have now had a run of well over 100 years with minimal domestic unrest on the scale of the Civil or Indian wars. This, however, may not continue to be the case much longer. As unemployment grows and people see the standards of living they have always known slipping away, their frustrations can take many forms. Last November as a nation we threw out dozens of politicians and replaced them with new faces equally devoid of any comprehension of the problem or what we as a nation will have to do next in order to survive, much less prosper.

    Next year we will face another round of elections and all indications suggest that 20 odd months from now our economic situation will be materially worse and gasoline will be approaching unaffordability for many. While realism could surface in the intervening time, the odds are it won’t and next year we will be faced with a plethora of silly proposals to deal with imagined problems. As the situation deteriorates further however, some may see violence as the answer to their woes. So far in America violence against individual public officials has been perpetrated by individuals with mental problems or a cause to further. This may not always be the case.

    As has been frequently noted by the media in recent days, the level of political discourse in America has been dropping markedly in recent years and while no one of any stature seems to be openly advocating violence, some are getting mighty close. Another few years of economic stagnation and increasing unemployment could easily bring us to the point where the line will be crossed.

    All this is by way of saying that there is a serious downside to simply ignoring the realities of the current situation and relying on hope rather than leveling with the American people. By failure to guide the country to real solutions to real problems, our leaders are risking increasing violence as the frustrations of an unknowing people continue to grow.

    Tom Whipple is a retired government analyst and has been following the peak oil issue for several years.

  28. jcuknz 28

    >>>The Tea Party, which reached a new level of violence this weekend,<<<
    That is as bad as the guff that the Tea Party put out.

  29. Jum 29

    This is Matthew Hooten’s character:


    Hooten has no credibility. He acted as a spinner for tobacco nee cancer sellers. If there was ever a human who would be a copy of the mythical serpent who whispered into Adam’s ear to take an apple from the tree (who else could reach?) it has to be Hooten. He has the voice of Voldemort’s serpent friend. Guess who Voldemort is…

    • burt 29.1

      Voldemort – Well that would be Clark.

      • Colonial Viper 29.1.1

        No marks for you little burt

      • Jum 29.1.2

        Wrong Burt, but then righties usually are.

        Check out Hooten’s voice. It’s like a hiss as it weasels its way into people’s ears, insinuating that it’s okay to smoke, it’s okay to have 90day sacking for workers, it’s okay for thieving moneytraders like JKeyll to hijack New Zealand for his own greed.

        Clark has a strong voice that rings much truer than your weasely serpent friend Hooten.

        Also, ‘Burts’ were working types. Your rhetoric suggests anything but; it suggests destroying workers’ rights, reducing their wages and paying that money in tax cuts to more weasels who never paid tax in the first place, because of their accountants and overseas bank accounts.

        The true character of a ‘Burt’ doesn’t betray workers. A spinner like Hooten or a pretend ‘Burt’ does.

  30. Jenny 30

    I think you are overstating it here Eddy.

    Though this development is disturbing and upsetting.

    Fascism doesn’t come from some street gang. It is imposed from above by a right wing state. Certainly part of this could mean giving official endorsement to politically motivated gangs of right wing thugs and posers when it suits.

    Witness the Nazis use of the Brown Shirts as a case in point.
    The Brown Shirts served their necessary purpose, of creating an atmosphere of fear, stirring up racism, and engaging in racist and politically motivated murder and state approved riots aimed at trade unionists and leftists.

    But when their usefulness had passed, they were done away with.

    I’m afraid Eddy, that the roots of Fascism lie in other, than some self important hate group. (dangerous and despicable as they are).

    The roots of Fascism are more likely develop in this manner..

    A right wing government and an unchecked state with close links with a ruling elite whose privileged position in society is being threatened by protest and economic crisis.

    In the above link the Greek government while cushioning the wealthy and powerful from the effects of the recession, has at the same time on the behests of these same money men, imposed harsh austerity measures on the rest of the population, while the state forces with the endorsement of the government resort to increasing amounts of state repression.

    It wouldn’t surprise me if right wing street gangs wouldn’t also be incited by the Greek state to attack the anti-austerity protesters while the police look the other way.

    How does Fascism arise?

    First of all the state wages an overblown campaign against “Communists” . (“Since the end of the cold war, Communists have been superseded by Terrorists as an excuse for state repression”.)

    Then, some sort of made to order Reichtstag event occurs.

    So what to look for?

    Just as War On Terror nut jobs in the police and the state look to be completely embarrassed by the Urewera Terror Raids debacle, coincidentally some sort of made to order Terrorist outrage or threat conveniently gets uncovered.

    On a platform of cracking down on Terrorism, a right wing government is returned at the elections with a mandate for enacting “Special” laws and powers, which encroach seriously on civil liberties, trade unions, the right to strike and protest, and freedom of speech, trial by jury is restricted even more, and more powers will be given to the state to spy and snoop on us, all this and more will be imposed under the cloak of combating Terrorism. Those found guilty of any offence in the Ureweras will be given harsh sentences way beyond the norm for such offences, and for the first time in a long time New Zealand prisons house political prisoners.

    Far Fetched?

    I hope so.

  31. Akldnut 31

    WTF – just received a viral email being sent around – this crap is obviously some RW bullshit picking up on the fervor in the headlines over the past few days. I’d link to it if I knew how but WTH. Link from urban legends

    I’m 63 and I’m Tired

    This should be required reading for every man, woman and child in the UK , United States of America , Canada, Australia and New Zealand .

    “I’m 63 and I’m Tired”
    By Robert A. Hall

    I’m 63. Except for one semester in college when jobs were scarce and a six-month period when I was between jobs, but job-hunting every day, I’ve worked, hard, since I was 18. Despite some health challenges, I still put in 50-hour weeks, and haven’t called in sick in seven or eight years. I make a good salary, but I didn’t inherit my job or my income, and I worked to get where I am. Given the economy, there’s no retirement in sight, and I’m tired. Very tired.

    I’m tired of being told that I have to “spread the wealth” to people who don’t have my work ethic. I’m tired of being told the government will take the money I earned, by force if necessary, and give it to people too lazy to earn it.

    I’m tired of being told that Islam is a “Religion of Peace,” when every day I can read dozens of stories of Muslim men killing their sisters, wives and daughters for their family “honor”; of Muslims rioting over some slight offense; of Muslims murdering Christian and Jews because they aren’t “believers”; of Muslims burning schools for girls; of Muslims stoning teenage rape victims to death for “adultery”; of Muslims mutilating the genitals of little girls; all in the name of Allah, because the Qur’an and Shari’a law tells them to.

    I’m tired of being told that out of “tolerance for other cultures” we must let Saudi Arabia use our oil money to fund mosques and mandrassa Islamic schools to preach hate in America and Canada , while no American nor Canadian group is allowed to fund a church, synagogue or religious school in Saudi Arabia to teach love and tolerance.

    I’m tired of being told I must lower my living standard to fight global warming, which no one is allowed to debate.

    I’m tired of being told that drug addicts have a disease, and I must help support and treat them, and pay for the damage they do. Did a giant germ rush out of a dark alley, grab them, and stuff white powder up their noses while they tried to fight it off?

    I’m tired of hearing wealthy athletes, entertainers and politicians of both parties talking about innocent mistakes, stupid mistakes or youthful mistakes, when we all know they think their only mistake was getting caught. I’m tired of people with a sense of entitlement, rich or poor.

    I’m real tired of people who don’t take responsibility for their lives and actions. I’m tired of hearing them blame the government, or discrimination or big-whatever for their problems.

    Yes, I’m damn tired.. But I’m also glad to be 63. Because, mostly, I’m not going to have to see the world these people are making. I’m just sorry for my granddaughter.

    Robert A. Hall is a Marine Vietnam veteran who served five terms in the Massachusetts State Senate.

    There is no way this will be widely publicized, unless each of us sends it on!
    This is your chance to make a difference.
    ” I’m 63 and I’m tired.
    If we don’t forward this
    we are part of the problem.

    “Never complain about growing old, far too many people have been denied that privilege”.

    [lprent: added link. ]

    • Colonial Viper 31.1

      This man is not tired, he is a dinosaur.

      • jcuknz 31.1.1

        The problem is that there is so much truth or fact in what he says and we know the non-Muslim are similar in their actions .. so much intolerance on our little planet. I too am concerned for the world my grand-daughter is inheriting.

    • QoT 31.2

      There is no way this will be widely publicized, unless each of us sends it on!

      Yep, because old white men whinging about walking uphill both ways in the snow who Fought For Our Freedoms and now these darkies are TAKIN’ OUR JOOOOOOOBS are such a little-heard-from demographic.

    • pollywog 31.3

      …sounds like someone needs a nana nap.

  32. Me 32

    After reading a fair few of the comments, this page came to mind: http://www.cracked.com/funny-3809-internet-argument-techniques/

    Nothing to do with the topic at hand, just observing commenters…

    • Jum 32.1

      And calling oneself Me is a dead giveaway of narcissism.

      You can’t have been around at the 2008 election. Maybe the Greek gods had turned you into a flower by then.

      The venom used against Helen Clark as a woman and a PM really was nasty.

      Now it’s just maple syrup aimed at JKeyll, and that really is an affront to the intelligence.

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