web analytics

MSSA Bill reported back

Written By: - Date published: 8:10 am, April 9th, 2019 - 10 comments
Categories: act, Christchurch Attack, crime, david seymour, democratic participation, law, law and "order", national, Politics, terrorism - Tags:

Michael Wood and Parliament’s Finance and Expenditure Committee have done an outstanding job and have reported back the Arms (Prohibited Firearms, Magazines, and Parts) Amendment Bill in the timeframe originally planned.

12,953 submissions were received.  60% of submissions analysed were supportive, 26% opposed and the balance made more complex comments.

Few changes have been made to the Bill.  Radio New Zealand has the details:

The Finance and Expenditure Select Committee has recommended only minor changes to the government bill banning semi-automatic rifles.

The committee finished its deliberations [yesterday] and published its report on the bill [yesterday] evening.

The report recommends changing the bill so pest controllers can use semi-automatic rifles on private land, rather than only in areas managed by the Department of Conservation.

It also calls for an exemption allowing people to keep heirloom weapons, so long as they are made inoperable by removing a vital part to be stored at a separate location kept secure by police.

The Green Party noted it considered this exemption to be at odds with the purpose of the amendment, and called for collectors’ firearms to be made permanently inoperable, despite the reduction in value this would entail.

The committee rejected calls to exempt competitive shooters from the ban because that would allow more semi-automatic firearms to remain in circulation.

David Seymour complained about the process being rushed.  Perhaps if he had rushed into Parliament last week he could have made things more difficult for the Government although the result would no doubt have been the same.

And there was support from interesting corners.  From the summary of submissions:

The majority of members of Rural Women New Zealand (Inc.) also supported the Government’s ban on military-style semi-automatics and assault rifles. The majority of their members (60%) did not believe semi-automatic firearms had a place on farms, and further supported the classification of prohibited firearms as set out in the Bill.

National filed a minority report.  I agree with their concern at the bill allowing for changes of definitions of ammunition being able to be made by order in council.  It should be in parliament passed law.  

Also the act contains “Henry VIII clauses” which allow the Government to amend the primary Act by regulation.  Again this is bad practice although understandable in the circumstances.

They also regret that MSSAs will not be able to be used in sporting contests.  I find it hard to imagine a legitimate sporting contest that involves the use of MSSAs.

Parliamentary debate on the bill is due today.

10 comments on “MSSA Bill reported back”

  1. Dennis Frank 1

    I find it hard to imagine a legitimate sporting contest that involves the use of MSSAs.

    Well, I can imagine a sporting contest using MSSAs, though legitimacy could be an issue. The Nats could advocate a guerilla warfare tournament, in which macho white supremacist dudes wearing crusader iconography could fight it out with macho islamist dudes wearing the motif of the prophet. Conduct it on Auckland Island, to minimise collateral damage, with reality tv coverage so the tube violence addicts also get off on it.

    Good to hear that it looks like a credible gun law is in the making. Will be interesting to see if parliament actions it today or if the debate is prolonged till tomorrow.

  2. Anne 2

    Thanks mickysavage.

    Just goes to show what can be achieved in such a short space of time when all parties co-operate with one another. I applaud all of them – even David Seymour… who had a little tanty along the way but he can’t help himself.

    Today’s debate will be worth watching.

    The next step along this path is the introduction of laws against Hate Crime and Hate Speech. As someone who was a victim of both in days gone by, I am seriously thinking of making a submission. However, I need to speak with someone who has knowledge and expertise in this area or who can at least guide me through the correct processes.

    When the time comes, is it alright if I contact you for advice micky? I presume I can access your email via the backend of TS.

    • Formerly Ross 2.1

      I don’t believe we need a law against hate speech as we have various related laws already. Any specific law against hate speech would not have prevented the massacre in Christchurch.


      • Anne 2.1.1

        You have missed the point about Hate Speech FR.

        What is being talked about is the kind of speech where a person wittingly spreads lies and innuendo about another person (or a group) causing them to be seriously harmed by way of loss of job or career/loss of income/ loss of good reputation and at the more severe end of the scale… persecution and criminal acts against the person/persons being targeted.

        A recent example was Mark Blomfield. As a result of smears and innuendo spread by Cameron Slater through his blog “Whale Oil”, that man was persecuted and physically set upon by a gun wielding intruder who, iirc, also issued threats to his life. He lost his business, his friends and if I remember correctly he also lost his home and had to go into hiding.

        • Psycho Milt

          What is being talked about is the kind of speech where a person wittingly spreads lies and innuendo about another person…

          We already have a law against that (Defamation Act 1992), as well as a law against hate speech (Human Rights Act 1993, section 61). The latter one is already in conflict with the Bill of Rights Act, and any attempts to make it even more restrictive would make that conflict even worse. The last thing the country needs is an increase in authoritarianism.

          • Formerly Ross

            We also have a Harmful Digital Communications Act which deals with online harm and abuse. In the Bloomfield case, the matter went to court and Bloomfield was successful. Presumably if legislation was enacted to outlaw hate speech, an alleged victim would still need to go through the courts to get redress.

            • lprent

              See my expanded reply below.

              Blomfield is still at it 7 years after taking it to court.

              The HDCA isn’t targeted at hate speech of any kind. It is targeted at person to person nastiness, orientated towards teenagers and run by an organisation that are effectively useless as dealing with actual adults.

              The trick with hate speech is to deal with the questionable first – then argue in courts to establish precedence for the police and others to be guided by in teh future.

          • lprent

            PM: The problem isn’t if there are laws to deal with it. The problem is if there are ANY laws that are effective at dealing with it. That is a whole different matter.

            With Matt Blomfield and Slater, the defamation case is currently in its 6th or 7th year. It started in 2012. That was essentially an open and shut case. The documents that Slater was relying on did not support the facts that he alleged.

            Yeah Slater deliberately lied a lot, obstructed the courts, used a complete legal dickhead (Dermot Nottingham) as legal assistance and represented himself a lot. In the end Slater was simply unable to present a defense and ran out of the courts patience and appeals.

            Slater’s approach to him being a complete lying arsehole in his posts about Blomfield and then being called on it in a defamation action wasn’t to allow the courts to make a determination. Instead he rode himself over 6-7 years into personal bankruptcy and the site company (and co-defendant) into liquidation rather than deal with the issue that he, Slater, was legally in the wrong. And most of the expense landed on the plaintiff.

            As far as I am concerned that shouldn’t have been a civil matter, it should have been a criminal one.

            Defamation law is hardly worth bothering with due to its ability for the defendant to obstruct the courts and is inappropriate as well for hate speech.

            As far as I am aware the HRA s61 is in the same position. I don’t think that there is much case law or use on it due to the difficulties in even making a case.

            The nearest we have to actually being an appropriate law with the required speed is the HDCA, and that as an act is so heavily flawed because the agency tasked with doing the pre-court is essentially incompetent when it goes past its intended target audience – teenagers. I’ve had exactly one HDCA approach on this site, and Netsafe were clearly incapable of following the rules laid down in the Act. They didn’t provide any of the information required for me to pass the request to the author of the post.

            Besides it wasn’t targeted at hate speech.

            In my opinion, we need a procedure with way more summary authority in making speedy determinations of potential hate speech – because we don’t have anything at present. Specifically something that can take preemptive action to take crap down or detain idiotic fuckwits before the courts make their determination.

            It isn’t like it is particularly hard to identify what steps over the bounds, especially on the net. Nor is it that hard to stop technically on request. What is usually a problem at a technical level is that it requires some precision about how to deal with it – and particularly in the online spaces.

            There isn’t a lot of point in dealing with anything 7 years or even a year after the fact (think roastbusters)..

          • Anne

            The last thing the country needs is an increase in authoritarianism.

            You have misunderstood my point PM. My understanding is the law as it presently stands is confined to crimes based on gender, sexuality and ethnicity.

            Hate crimes are not always confined to one of those three basic premises and if the crimes committed fall into another category altogether – for example they may be politically motivated – then the victim is likely to receive scant attention from the police. At least that has been the experiences of the past. Sometimes the victim can even find themselves being treated as the perpetrator which is what happened to me.

        • McFlock


          We don’t want to bring back libel laws. Like a lot of law, while they nominally protect everyone, in reality they only protect the rich and the powerful.

          Blomfeld has his own civil case. Maybe there should be greater controls around sheltering wealth from civil liability (oh, random acts like, and I don’t know where I get these ideas from, putting assets into trust, making your spouse the owner of your companies, and declaring yourself bankrupt and assetless), but that’s a different issue.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

No feed items found.

  • Pacific partners work together to provide additional support to Australia
    The NZDF continues to support the Australian Defence Force (ADF) as it battles fires in Victoria and New South Wales, including by transporting Republic of Fiji Military engineers from Nadi to Australia, announced Defence Minister Ron Mark. On Saturday morning a NZDF Boeing 757 will depart New Zealand to uplift ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    11 hours ago
  • Kaikōura $10.88 million boost in tourism & business
    The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) is investing $10.88 million to boost business and tourism opportunities in Kaikōura, Parliamentary Undersecretary for Regional Economic Development, Fletcher Tabuteau announced today. As part of the Kaikōura Marina Development Programme, the following two projects will receive PGF funding: A $9.88 million investment to begin the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    14 hours ago
  • Govt accounts in surplus, debt remains low
    The Government’s books are in good shape with the accounts in surplus and expenses close to forecast, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. The Treasury today released the Crown accounts for the five months to November. The operating balance before gains and losses (OBEGAL) was above forecast by $0.7 billion resulting ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    16 hours ago
  • Auckland focus for first Police graduation of 2020
    The number of Police on the Auckland frontline is increasing with the graduation today of a special locally-trained wing of new constables. Police Minister Stuart Nash says the graduation of eighteen officers from Recruit Wing 333-5 means that more than 1900 new Police have been deployed since the Coalition Government ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Wairarapa gets $7.11m PGF water boost
    The Provincial Growth Fund is putting $7.11 million into creating a sustainable water supply for Wairarapa, Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau announced today. The following two projects will receive Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) funding: A $7 million investment in Wairarapa Water Limited for the pre-construction development of ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Progress with new Police station in Mahia
    Community safety and crime prevention in the East Coast community of Mahia has moved forward with the opening of a new Police station to serve the growing coastal settlement. Police Minister Stuart Nash has officially opened the new station, which was relocated almost 20 kilometres along the coast from the nearby ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Plans to protect the future of whitebaiting announced
    With several native whitebait species in decline the Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage has today released proposals to standardise and improve management of whitebait across New Zealand. “The need for action for a healthy whitebait fishery has never been greater,” Eugenie Sage said.  “Four of the six whitebait species are ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New resource for schools to increase awareness and understanding of climate change
    A new Ministry of Education resource available for schools in 2020 will increase awareness and understanding of climate change, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “The resource, Climate Change – prepare today, live well tomorrow, will help students understand the effects of climate change at a local, national and global ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Getting more out of our most productive firms
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has approved the terms of reference for an Inquiry into the economic contribution of New Zealand's frontier firms. Frontier firms are the most productive firms in the domestic economy within their own industry. “These firms are important as they diffuse new technologies and business practices into ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • NZDF sends more support to Australia
    The New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) is sending an Environmental Health Team, a Primary Health Care Team and a Chaplain to Australia, boosting New Zealand support for the Australian Defence Force (ADF) as it battles bush fires in Victoria and New South Wales, Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today. The ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand joins partners in calling for full investigation into air crash in Iran
    Acting Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Rt Hon Winston Peters says that developments suggesting a surface-to-air missile is responsible for the downing of the Ukrainian International Airlines flight in Iran is disastrous news. “New Zealand offers its deepest sympathies to the families of the 176 victims. It is ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Staying connected to Australian agriculture
    Agriculture Minister, Damien O’Connor, says the Ministry for Primary Industries is continuing to stay connected to federal authorities in Australia as devastating fires affect the country.  “The Ministry is using an existing trans-Tasman forum for discussions on the agricultural impact of the fires and the future recovery phase,” says Damien ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Investment in schools – a commitment to communities
    Thousands of school-age children, their teachers and wider communities are benefiting from the Government’s multi-million dollar investment upgrading and renewing schools, Education Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “We want New Zealand to be the best place to be a child and that means learning in warm, comfortable and modern classrooms,” ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand Defence Force sends support to Australia
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark today announced New Zealand is sending three Royal New Zealand Air Force NH90 helicopters and crew, and two NZ Army Combat Engineer Sections as well as a command element to support the Australian Defence Force efforts in tackling the Australian fires.  The New Zealand Defence Force ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Better access to books for blind and low vision citizens on World Braille Day
    "Today is World Braille Day and I am delighted to announce that an international treaty giving blind and low vision New Zealanders access to books and literary works comes into force today,” Minister for Disability Issues Carmel Sepuloni announced today. “Today the Marrakesh Treaty and the associated amendments to the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • New Zealand to send further firefighter support to Australia
    The New Zealand Government is sending a further 22 firefighters to help fight the Australian fires. “The devastation caused by these fires is taking a substantial toll on our Australian neighbours and we will continue to do what we can to assist as they deal with this extremely dynamic, dangerous ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Reducing the cost of education
    Twenty-two more schools have opted into the Government’s policy of providing $150 per child to schools who don’t ask parents for donations– bringing the total number of schools in the policy to 1,585. The Ministry of Education has accepted late opt ins past the November 14 deadline from schools that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • Road deaths lower in 2019, but still more work to do
    “As we enter the new decade, my thoughts are with the families, friends and communities of the 353 people who lost their lives in road crashes last year. While the number of deaths is lower than in 2018 (377), this is still a staggering loss of life,” Duty Minister Iain ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago
  • PM congratulates New Year 2020 Honours recipients
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has congratulated the diverse group of New Zealanders recognised for their contributions to the country and their communities in the New Year 2020 Honours List.   The list of 180 honours recipients includes three Dames and three Knights Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Justice Minister congratulates first Māori Supreme Court judge on New Year’s Honour
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has congratulated The Honourable Justice Joe Williams for receiving a knighthood for services to the state. Sir Joe Williams has been appointed as a Knight Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit in the New Year 2020 Honours List. “Sir Joe Williams has made an ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • New Year honours for top sportspeople
    Twenty-one of New Zealand’s top sportspeople, coaches and leaders in the sporting community have been recognised in the New Year 2020 Honours List. The Silver Ferns coach Noeline Taurua has been made a Dame Companion and the former All Blacks Steve Hansen has been made a Knight Companion of the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Leading architect of Zero Carbon Bill honoured
    It’s great to see ordinary New Zealanders doing extraordinary things, Minister for Climate Change James Shaw today said in response to the news that Lisa McLaren is included in the New Year 2020 Honours List for her exceptional work leading the campaign for the Zero Carbon Bill. Lisa McLaren was ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Social entrepreneurs and innovation leads Pacific contribution
    Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says the New Year 2020 Honours List highlights the valuable contribution Pacific social entrepreneurs and innovators make to New Zealand, the Pacific region and the world. “The standout common factor that underlines their contribution to Aotearoa is the value they place in their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Service to birds and bush recognised in New Year Honours
    Decades of dedication to Aotearoa’s unique birds, landscapes, and native eels is recognised in the New Year 2020 Honours List said Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage. “I’m delighted that the decades of dedication to conservation, and fantastic leadership in giving nature a helping hand is being acknowledged,” said Eugenie Sage. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago
  • Closer Economic Partnership with Singapore comes into force on 1 January
    New Zealanders will start to see the benefits of the upgraded Closer Economic Partnership (CEP) with Singapore from 1 January 2020, when the agreement comes into force. Minister for Trade and Export Growth David Parker said the agreement would open more opportunities for New Zealand companies looking to do business with ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 weeks ago