National loses control of Parliament

Written By: - Date published: 8:37 am, September 8th, 2016 - 111 comments
Categories: Abuse of power, accountability, national, national/act government, phil twyford, Politics, same old national - Tags:

It may have been brief and passing but yesterday National lost control of Parliament.

And it was all their own fault.

Two days ago the out of control Nick Smith introduced a bill to do two things, extend the special housing area provisions by a further three years and stop land acquired under the Public Works Act for housing purposes from being offered back to the original owner if the Government decided to flick the land to a private developer rather than develop the land itself.

Fair enough that he should try and change the law but he introduced it as an urgent bill, which means no select committee scrutiny and no chance of public input. It was meant to be done and dusted quickly.

The first part of the bill, extending the SHA provisions was something that Labour could live with. But the second, removing buy back rights under the Public Works Act, should have gone through a select committee process as an absolute minimum. I described the provision as banana republic stuff a couple of days ago and stand by that.  It is extraordinary that National and Act, parties who profess to respect private property rights, should be extinguishing someone’s rights in such an underhand and summary way.

But this created a problem which the Government appear to have overlooked. The two parts meant that the bill was an omnibus bill and this allowed Labour to then put up further parts by way of amendment.

Which they did. For one day plus the housing crisis was debated as the opposition put up measure after measure.

The amendments put up by Labour and the Greens and New Zealand First included:

  • Introduce Labour’s Kiwibuild programme which involves the construction of 10,000 affordable houses a year by the state,
  • Extend the “bright line” test for capital gains on the purchase and sale of a house from two years to five years,
  • Tighten up foreign investment,
  • Introduce a National Policy Statement on urban development,
  • Stopping the taking of a dividend from Housing Corporation and using this money instead to invest in further social housing,
  • Mandating a minimum amount of emergency housing.

Each measure was voted down, usually by the narrowest of margins.

But for one beautiful day the House of the Peoples representatives debated and discussed the housing crisis that inflicts our land and almost enacted policies that would address this most urgent of problems.

Iain Lees Galloway summed up the debate perfectly.

Roll on the elections 2017.

https://twitter.com/PhilTwyford/status/773352211690598400

111 comments on “National loses control of Parliament ”

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  1. Nessalt 1
    8 September 2016 at 9:04 am

    Kind of like one of those days when they allow school children to run a “Model UN”. enjoy your field trip.

    Bit of a stuff up but not exactly government changing

  2. Keith 2
    8 September 2016 at 9:32 am

    And yet the media blame Labour for this.

    Why use urgency? How was urgency going to build any more houses right now, it wasn’t because they way National have everything set up it never will.

    The SHA’s are an abject failure anyway so why the urgency?

    When confronted with a number of excellent alternatives to deal with this housing crisis National vote every one of them down because they don’t want a single thing to change! They love this lords and serfs world they are creating.

    What is the justification for not offering back land to the original owner taken by compulsorily by the Public Works Act? I can’t think of a single good one but it would be bloody handy to flog off such land to your mates wouldn’t it National?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1
      8 September 2016 at 9:39 am

      The developer wants the land urgently, and has paid enough in bribes to have their demands met?

    • dukeofurl 2.2
      8 September 2016 at 9:41 am

      Fletchers has told them there arent enough large blocks of land for development left that are ‘affordable for them’ or they have 3/4 of the site but there are some holdouts.
      This is mostly because of the lifestyle block boom has created hundreds of little blocks in the best sites.
      National wants to be able to go to location that has say 10 owners and take their land, ostensibly for the government to build , but in reality its for Fletchers to development subdivide and build the houses. As their business model is to do larger lots from the bare land to selling to new home owners.

      • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1
        8 September 2016 at 9:47 am

        +1

      • Macro 2.2.2
        8 September 2016 at 11:20 am

        National wants to be able to go to location that has say 10 owners and take their land, ostensibly for the government to build , but in reality its for Fletchers to development subdivide and build the houses. As their business model is to do larger lots from the bare land to selling to new home owners.

        I think that can be the only logical conclusion one can make on this piece of legislated corruption.

        • dukeofurl 2.2.2.1
          8 September 2016 at 12:22 pm

          http://www.fletcherliving.co.nz/

          Its amazing when you think about it- from buying the bare land to handing the keys over to new owners, they control the whole process.
          Theres Fletcher roading, Fletcher timber, Fletcher windows, Fletcher Concrete, Fletcher roofing, they do the lot. ( often they use brands that dont say Fletcher such as Placemakers, Dimond etc)

          The reality means the government should be doing this for the lower income people not doing $900K+ homes that are unaffordable

          • Draco T Bastard 2.2.2.1.1
            8 September 2016 at 1:28 pm

            The building sector in NZ is essentially a duopoly consisting of Carters and Fletchers. Sure, there are a lot of small independent construction firms but they get their materials from those two and are often sub-contracted by them to do the actual work.

          • Michelle 2.2.2.1.2
            12 September 2016 at 3:32 pm

            Don’t forget fletcher cow shit and waste in the rivers but they are allowed to as only the peasant get fined and have their land taken by the crown. Are people starting to see a picture of serfness here or is it selfishness

      • Akldnut 2.2.3
        8 September 2016 at 5:41 pm

        Theres a shit load of land to build on. Just stop playing golf on them and build houses instead, it might alarm a few rich elites……. but who cares!
        The Many before the Few.

        • b waghorn 2.2.3.1
          8 September 2016 at 5:48 pm

          I’ve got a cuzzie who lives in Auckland who has spent 20 years on night shift ,who’s loves a round of golf and sure as hell isn’t rich. I would go so far as to say that two 6 k walks a week are what keep him alive (he likes his grub)
          So this hatred of golf some lefties have just makes them look silly.

          • Andre 2.2.3.1.1
            8 September 2016 at 6:14 pm

            My problem with golf is it’s a huge amount of land locked away from general public use, and used at very low density by golfers. I was a regular user of Craigavon Park, across the road from the Titirangi Golf Course. The park was almost always busy, but there was hardly ever anyone visible anywhere on the golf course. Same with almost all other courses I go past.

            As I understand it, they’re generally not much good as nature reserves either. The grass monoculture and heavy use of chemicals suppresses wildlife on the course and for a surprising distance around it.

            • Xianggangadin 2.2.3.1.1.1
              9 September 2016 at 5:59 pm

              Try playing a round. You’ll soon see how busy the golf courses are.
              I like the occasional hack around the course ,but building on them would kill
              Two birds with one stone. More houses and less Chinese immigrants (they are the ones busying up the golf courses) if they can’t get a cheap round of golf they might not come here.

            • Lloyd 2.2.3.1.1.2
              9 September 2016 at 10:36 pm

              And the trees on golf courses are almost always exotics which don’t support native birdlife.

      • North 2.2.4
        8 September 2016 at 9:16 pm

        And Labour way, way back did that so beautifully with Fletchers. It ain’t gonna happen that way again though is it ? It’ll be rape for Fletchers and the government will contract for that. In the Shallow Man’s Brighter Future. Sad !

  3. Brigid 3
    8 September 2016 at 9:39 am

    Did the Maori Party vote against these amendments?

    • Macro 3.1
      8 September 2016 at 11:41 am

      From the fact that this legislation only passed by the narrowest of margins one would have to say that they voted against it. The Dunny and Seymour (Seymour was the main spokesperson for this despicable legislation btw) obviously voted with Nact to deny ordinary NZers any hope of social justice.

      • Lanthanide 3.1.1
        8 September 2016 at 11:50 am

        You mean, the Maori Party voted for the amendments.

        NAT + ACT + Dunne = 61.

        If MP votes alongside the government, they get 63 votes. “Narrowest of margins” would suggest 1 or 2 votes, eg 61 vs 60, not 63 vs 58.

        • Macro 3.1.1.1
          8 September 2016 at 1:28 pm

          I mean that the MP voted against the 2nd part of the legislation and for the subsequent Labour and Green amendments.

          The legislation introduced under urgency Parts 1 (and especially Part 2) passed by the narrowest of margins (61 to 60) so ergo the MP voted against it.
          The amendments sort by Labour and the Greens were not passed (60 to 61) even though the MP voted for them.

          Is that clear enough?

          • Lanthanide 3.1.1.1.1
            8 September 2016 at 1:44 pm

            Yes, except Brigid was talking about the amendments, so saying the Maori Party “voted against it” was confusing.

            • Macro 3.1.1.1.1.1
              8 September 2016 at 2:54 pm

              The legislation passed is an Amendment to the existing Public Works Act

              • Lanthanide …
                8 September 2016 at 3:24 pm

                Yes, but the only time the word “amendment” is used on this post, is talking about the opposition amendments.

                So in context, Brigid’s question is best interpreted as referring to the opposition amendments, for which I presume the Maori Party voted for, not against.

                • Macro …
                  8 September 2016 at 4:27 pm

                  “referring to the opposition amendments, for which I presume the Maori Party voted for, not against.”

                  You presume correctly.
                  And how could they do otherwise?- bearing in mind that they, with Labour and the Greens, are currently conducting an independent inquiry into Homelessness.

                  • Leftie …
                    8 September 2016 at 5:46 pm

                    The Maori party have a conflict of interest, they voted in favour of National’s legislation to sell off state houses.

                    • Macro …
                      8 September 2016 at 9:04 pm

                      That is true – but in their mind they had a sufficient reason to do so;

                      Maori Party co-leader Marama Fox responded strongly.

                      “I come with some frustration at those who want to deride the name of the Maori Party because we dare to have an independent voice,” she said.

                      “This is not a vote for a wholesale sell-off of the housing stock. For us, this is a vote of rangitiratanga.”

                      Iwi had asked the Maori Party to back the bill so they could get into the social housing market, she said.

                      “Housing New Zealand has done an appalling job of looking after our people, and [iwi] believe they can do it better.”

                      When Prime Minister John Key first announced the policy in his 2014 State of the Nation address, the Maori Party expressed some reservations, in particular around rights of first refusal for iwi.

                      The new legislation removes a requirement for Housing New Zealand to offer any land back to its original owner, but does not cut across right of first refusal for Maori.

                      The first tranche of sales are taking place in Tauranga, where local iwi have expressed an interest in buying up to 1000 homes.

                      Now you can agree or disagree with that (- essentially the new amendment cuts across the first principle of first refusal and so Maori could be out of land again). But as you maybe aware, land has deep significance for Maori, and the prospect of regaining land once removed from them in Tauranga was a significant one.

                    • Leftie …
                      8 September 2016 at 10:13 pm

                      Which iwi Macro? The Maori party do not speak for all Maori. Who actually asked the Maori party to support selling off state housing that is contributing to people being made homeless? What has National been doing to Housing New Zealand that rendered it ineffective in doing it’s job properly? Isn’t it Maori that National want to sideline in their sneaky attempt to amend the Public Works Act in favour of their developer mates?

                    • Macro …
                      8 September 2016 at 10:43 pm

                      If you read the link it tells you:

                      “The first tranche of sales are taking place in Tauranga, where local iwi have expressed an interest in buying up to 1000 homes.”

                      So you can see that if they were to be the purchasers, then the local Maori would not necessarily be made homeless. Many sectors of Maori have been advocating strongly over recent years for more self determination citing that the current state providers are not meeting their needs, and there is ample evidence that that is the case. Whanau Ora is the MP response, (which is why they choose to be on the treasury benches) and that move at the beginning of the year was in line with that.
                      However the effect of yesterdays Bill was to remove the provisions of the right of first refusal even for Maori – hence the change of stance.

                    • Leftie …
                      9 September 2016 at 2:08 pm

                      But that actually doesn’t answer any of my questions Macro. National/Maori Party selling off state housing, National/Maori Party demolishing blocks of state houses, not to mention letting state houses sit empty IS making people; both Maori and non Maori, homeless though. Tauranga is just one of National/Maori Party’s test sites. Whanau Ora is being kept purposely under funded and is not in good shape, and is possibly not the model to draw on. Besides any Iwi group that buys into this, are falsely assuming the govt will help them fund it. Self determination is one thing, but still being reliant on government funding is quite another. Why do you think the Salvo’s pulled out? Why do you think the Invercargill deal fell through? National are giving no govt assurances at all. Once National sells, they do not intend to prop up the buyers. Why do you think Maori Party co leader Marama Fox keeps saying “give us the money” ?

                      If the Maori Party has really changed their stance, they would have walked away from the Nats. They haven’t’ and they won’t.

  4. Colonial Viper 4
    8 September 2016 at 9:43 am

    Imagine if Labour hadn’t shitcanned Mana and the Collective Left had +1 MPs in the House in the form of Laila Harre and Hone Harawira, instead of just Kelvin Davis.

    Ah well.

    • Muttonbird 4.1
      8 September 2016 at 10:36 am

      This from the man who wants to charge $6.90/L of 91.

      • DoublePlusGood 4.1.1
        8 September 2016 at 10:48 am

        How about addressing his point, instead of throwing a dead cat at it?

        • Muttonbird 4.1.1.1
          8 September 2016 at 11:18 am

          All CV’s ideas should be held up for inspection, imo.

          He talks here of the collective left but spends most of his time on The Standard undermining that very idea.

          I can’t take any of CV’s solutions seriously when placed alongside his advocating for a 350% increase in fuel prices. I’m all for brainstorming, but not brainless-storming.

          Also, Mana has recently aligned itself with National’s pet poodle, The Maori Party. They can’t be trusted as a party concerned with social justice.

          • Leftie 4.1.1.1.1
            8 September 2016 at 11:45 am

            Heap loads of +1’s Muttonbird.

          • Colonial Viper 4.1.1.1.2
            8 September 2016 at 12:55 pm

            Yep carbon fuel prices need to go up to represent the destruction it causes to the globe.

            Also, Mana has recently aligned itself with National’s pet poodle, The Maori Party. They can’t be trusted as a party concerned with social justice.

            Fuck aligning with Labour who backstabbed them.

            Yet another example of Labour shortsightedly driving political parties into the arms of National.

            • marty mars 4.1.1.1.2.1
              9 September 2016 at 12:36 am

              Except it isnt true. Mana are not going right, not even slightly. You dont know your right from your left cv.

              What examples are you thinking of, these other parties driven by labour into the gnat clutches?

          • Jackal 4.1.1.1.3
            10 September 2016 at 12:57 pm

            Also, Mana has recently aligned itself with National’s pet poodle, The Maori Party. They can’t be trusted as a party concerned with social justice.

            I have to agree with that. Unfortunately most politicians these days are only concerned with feathering their own nests. That’s the main reason National et al. are dragging their feet on the housing crisis debacle!

            The Maori and Mana parties are no exception to this rule. It simply serves their current purpose to appear to give a fuck, when in fact they don’t.

            The collective left would be better served by placing their trust in politicians who will actually work towards social equality, not just talk about it.

        • McFlock 4.1.1.2
          8 September 2016 at 11:54 am

          Fair call.

          CV is pretending that Labour were the only factor in mana’s implosion and that everything else would remain equal, i.e. if Labour had done a deal with harawira.Com then everyone’s party vote would have remained the same.

          Of course, if the “+1” seat for harawira had been matched by Labour dropping to 24% because of whom they associate with, then CV’s navel-gazing is utter horseshit.

          • Leftie 4.1.1.2.1
            8 September 2016 at 12:00 pm

            +1 McFlock

          • Colonial Viper 4.1.1.2.2
            8 September 2016 at 12:53 pm

            CV is pretending that Labour were the only factor in mana’s implosion and that everything else would remain equal

            implosion? What justifies that BS phrase McFlock?

            Harawira got more votes in his electorate in 2014 than in 2011. Fact.

            • McFlock 4.1.1.2.2.1
              8 September 2016 at 1:04 pm

              Ok, implosion might have been the wrong word. Fizzle, maybe? Rapid deflation into a cloud of hot air? Moment of Blah? The Unvotable Likeness of Being Divisive?

              So yay, he got more electorate votes. That’s neither here nor there, because, as I pointed out, your assertion is that if he’d been gifted TTT then that would have meant one more MP for the left. However, that, as I said, relies on the party votes remaining constant in the face of this deal.

              Fact: Harawira got roughly 800 more votes in 2014 than he did in 2011.
              Fact: Davis got roughly 3,000 more votes in 2014 than he did in 2011.
              Davis fought the better campaign. Harawira just wasn’t that palatable to the voters.

              • Colonial Viper …
                8 September 2016 at 2:48 pm

                Fact: Davis got roughly 3,000 more votes in 2014 than he did in 2011.

                Yep that’s what happens when National and NZF work together with Labour.

                • McFlock …
                  8 September 2016 at 3:37 pm

                  lol

                  So now it’s National’s fault too…
                  2011: it was lab vs Hone vs maori party and an ALCP candidate.
                  2014: it was lab vs Hone vs maori party and an independent candidate.

                  Fucking ALCP was in on the conspiracy against Harawira, too.

                • Matthew Whitehead …
                  9 September 2016 at 5:25 am

                  Davis didn’t get enough votes to have captured all of the Nats and NZF voters’ electorate votes. He got about enough that you could claim he got all the Nats’ votes and some spare change, but the likely outcome is that all of the electorate candidates got their respective party’s votes, and Hone got a bit more of the floating party votes, with Kelvin scooping up enough more on top of the Labour voters to make his win convincing, and the Maori Party candidate barely grabbing more than their own party vote.

                  In all likelihood plenty of centrists and right-wingers voters for Hone, as he couldn’t have got the votes he did even combining all the left-wing party voters into his electorate vote. (Or I suppose you could argue that many Labour voters voted for Hone (He would have grabbed about 25% of them if he didn’t get any centre-right voters) and Davis swept practically all of the centrists and right-wingers to make up for it, leaving only a couple hundred for the Maori Party)

    • dukeofurl 4.2
      8 September 2016 at 11:13 am

      I see Harawira is back in the nest with the MP- all the better to keep Key in power.

      With the new MP leadership of Flavell, Mana would just be another version of Brand Key .

      • Leftie 4.2.1
        8 September 2016 at 11:46 am

        Yes, and one would have thought Hone would have learnt his lesson last time.

      • Chris 4.2.2
        8 September 2016 at 12:06 pm

        I think you’re underestimating the strength of Hone’s disdain for Key and the nats. Any cosying up between Mana and the Maori Party must mean that the Maori Party are gearing up to cut Key loose. Makes sense too, because there’s no way the Maori Party are neo-libs. They supported Key et al and for that reason sold Maori down the river. I think the Maori Party are seeing the error of their ways and want to come home.

        • Leftie 4.2.2.1
          8 September 2016 at 12:22 pm

          The Maori party have shown no signs that they are intending to cut their umbilical cord from the Nats. The party is down to just 1 seat now, I think they are panicking because they are facing the very real possibility of being ousted from parliament next year.

      • Matthew Whitehead 4.2.3
        9 September 2016 at 5:38 am

        Hone refused to entertain any outright talk of alliance. Think more that Mana and the Māori Party won’t run candidates against each other, so Davis would have a much harder time holding onto TTT and the Maori Party might manage to hold on to their seat, too.

        The MP is likely to sit on the cross benches if Labour appears to have the numbers to form a government, or be another side-party for National if they have the numbers. Essentially whatever happens they’re largely irrelevant as far as forming a government, but their votes could be useful for key policies.

        I’m more worried about Winston supporting the Nats than I am about the MP, and I think Winston’s relatively unlikely to jump back into bed with them.

    • Leftie 4.3
      8 September 2016 at 11:15 am

      Mana shitcanned themselves Colonial Viper, even Hone Harawira admits that teaming up with Dotcom backfired on him. If Hone Harawira had of stood independently like he had done previously, I have no doubts whatsoever that he would have retained his seat.

      A few months ago Laila Harre endorsed Labour.

      “What I think with Labour’s announcements in the weekend which was so important it may well start to drive the behaviour itself, I mean I’ve certainly said to people I know in that house buying generation that rather than work longer hours to pay an excessively high mortgage and put their deposit out there in an overheated market that they would be better to invest their time and any additional money in helping Labour to change the government it’s a far better investment for them make in getting their first home than anything else. “

    • TopHat 4.4
      8 September 2016 at 11:16 am

      What about if Mana hadn’t jumped into bed with [KDC]?

      [Fatphobia is unnecessary – weka]

      • billmurray 4.4.1
        8 September 2016 at 11:26 am

        But unfortunately they did, we all now suffer however [KDC] is still on the pigs back and with a young girlfriend to boot.
        He is still taking the piss out of NZ.

        [ok, we get that you have problems with body shape/size, but it’s unnecessary to spread your fat phobia throughout a thread in order to make political arguments. Repeatedly using a body-shaming insult to refer to someone is no more politically reasonable than repeatedly referring to a woman as a slut. Check your prejudices – weka]

      • Siobhan 4.4.2
        8 September 2016 at 11:48 am

        Every time I think of the self hijacking stunt with Glenn Greenwald a little part of me dies. What a mistake Mana aligning with Dotcom, and possibly even worse, Glenn Greenwald, and Assange, getting sucked into the debacle at a time when the two of them could have dealt a real blow to Keys credibility.

        • billmurray 4.4.2.1
          8 September 2016 at 11:53 am

          [KDC] will tie our Government, who-ever they may be, up for years in expensive litigation which the taxpayers of NZ will have to pay.
          The pox on [KDC] and all who supported him.

          [see moderator note above – weka]

          • DoublePlusGood 4.4.2.1.1
            8 September 2016 at 12:07 pm

            Uh, if you want to blame someone for the expensive legal action, blame those who are tying Dotcom up in court, not Dotcom. He’s not the one trying to extradite someone for something they can’t be extradited for, nor is he the one illegally seizing assets.

            • Leftie 4.4.2.1.1.1
              8 September 2016 at 12:08 pm

              Well said DoublePlusGood.

            • TopHat 4.4.2.1.1.2
              8 September 2016 at 12:14 pm

              Agreed!

            • billmurray 4.4.2.1.1.3
              8 September 2016 at 1:04 pm

              [KDC] has allegedly stolen intellectual property, from in the main, American interests to the tune of billions of dollars if he was so innocent why does he not simply go to America and defend the charge’s.
              Most New Zealanders know why and he is one of the most hated men in NZ, unfortunately their are some who have received his largesse or others who are so blind in their detestation of the National government that they would allow this piece of dog-shite to remain here.
              Hone and Mana made a big mistake in joining with him and many on the left including Russell Norman visited and feted him.
              The piece of lard exclaimed publicly that Australians are just as stupid as NZrs, that’s his true feelings to NZ and its peoples, I repeat,
              The pox on [KDC] and all those that supported him

              [see moderator note above – weka]

              • DoublePlusGood …
                8 September 2016 at 2:21 pm

                If he goes to the US to defend the charges, they’ll just run a kangaroo court and chuck him in jail. To pretend otherwise is naïve.
                All of that is entirely irrelevant to the fact that the people wasting tax-payer money here are our justice system, not Dotcom.

              • framu …
                8 September 2016 at 3:25 pm

                “why does he not simply go to America and defend the charge’s.”

                for the simple fact that he has the same legal rights as any other perm resident or citizen of this country.

                i wouldnt trust the guy as far as i could spit – but im not going to insist that he should be subjected to a different set of legal standards and expectations just because of who he is

              • Matthew Whitehead …
                9 September 2016 at 5:40 am

                One cannot “steal” intellectual property.
                And what he’s actually being accused of is basically being insufficiently co-operative with takedown requests, which arguably isn’t even his job.

                I don’t have much love for KDC, but not only hasn’t he done anything that qualifies for extradition, I’m not even sure he’s done anything that’s even arguably illegal.

              • JonL …
                12 September 2016 at 12:31 pm

                The word is allegedly!

                ” if he was so innocent why does he not simply go to America and defend the charge’s.”

                How bloody naive are you? And why the vicious hate-fest – did KDC personally steal all your marbles?

          • Leftie 4.4.2.1.2
            8 September 2016 at 12:07 pm

            Explain Billmurray why is it that the crown, that appears to have unlimited funds, is representing America, which has no jurisdiction in this country, against a New Zealand resident, (which Dotcom is), that is costing the New Zealand tax payer millions of dollars?

            Why aren’t the Americans funding their own representation and legal costs themselves? Why is John key forcing the NZ tax payer to foot that bill?

            • billmurray 4.4.2.1.2.1
              8 September 2016 at 1:45 pm

              The NZ government had a request from the US government to extradite [KDC] to the US to stand trial for intellectual property theft, the NZ government agreed and the legal proceedings are being duly processed.
              How final accounts for the process will be allocated is yet to be seen.

              Why are you in love with [KDC], he thinks that NZrs are stupid and presumably that means you!.

              [see moderator note above – weka]

              • Leftie …
                8 September 2016 at 1:54 pm

                That is still not a case for the NZ tax payer to foot the bill Billmurray.

                It’s not a matter of being in love with Dotcom, it’s a matter of how John key and the US broke this country’s laws in regards to Dotcom.

                Why are you so infantile?

        • TopHat 4.4.2.2
          8 September 2016 at 11:58 am

          Not forgetting that Dotcom was a financial supporter of Right Wing politicians previous to his entrance into the political arena. The cynical, conspiracy theorist side of me thinks Dotcom staged that weak side show as sleight to aid Jonkey’s re-election. Didn’t he do well? !

      • Leftie 4.4.3
        8 September 2016 at 12:11 pm

        Tophat and Billmurray, I think it’s childish and immature to refer to Dotcom in that derogatory name calling manner.

        • TopHat 4.4.3.1
          8 September 2016 at 12:24 pm

          And I think it’s juvenile of you to take pain to point that out.

        • billmurray 4.4.3.2
          8 September 2016 at 1:11 pm

          LOL. Yes you may think that but I will refer to that piece of dog-shite in what I consider to be a fitting and proper manner.
          This is the piece of lard who in talking about Australians said” they are as stupid as New Zealanders”.

          Please Leftie don’t prove him right.

          • Leftie 4.4.3.2.1
            8 September 2016 at 1:34 pm

            No need to continue to show your stupid immaturity Billmurray. It was alleged that Dotcom said that, but there was no proof that he did.

            • billmurray 4.4.3.2.1.1
              8 September 2016 at 1:56 pm

              Leftie, September 29 NZ Herald, Robb Kidd, if it was good enough for the Herald to print and take the risk of litigation then after reading the article many times and looking at context and the personality of [KDC], I believe the veracity of the article.

              [see moderator note above – weka]

              • Leftie …
                8 September 2016 at 3:11 pm

                In the NZ Herald article you are referring to, Rob Kidd used the word “allegedly.” Therefore, by your own admission that you believe what was printed in the article, you must accept that this allegation was made without proof.

                And since when did National’s NZ Herald have any credibility anyway?

              • Anno1701 …
                8 September 2016 at 3:33 pm

                “Piggy Pig”

                are you like 12 or something ?

    • Colonial Viper 4.5
      8 September 2016 at 12:51 pm

      Seems none of you guys can handle the truth.

      Harawira got more votes than in 2011, and lost his electorate by just ~700 votes.

      Dotcom had nothing to do with that, just a gang up by Labour, National and NZF, who each saw benefits from getting Mana out of Parliament and out of Northland.

      • Cinny 4.5.1
        8 September 2016 at 1:10 pm

        Hoping for wisdom to prevail next year and the left use current MMP laws to their advantage.

        • billmurray 4.5.1.1
          8 September 2016 at 1:32 pm

          Cinny, Labour and the Greens have clearly indicated that they will, starting in the by-election of Mt Roskill should Goff get the Mayors job.
          I think they should have done this at last election, the LabGreen MOU is starting to show coherence.

      • TopHat 4.5.2
        8 September 2016 at 1:19 pm

        Two truths are;
        Harawira made a huge tactical error in teaming up with the + sized gentlemen with questionable business etiquette.

        Harawira lost.

      • billmurray 4.5.3
        8 September 2016 at 1:23 pm

        You are wrong, many Maori folk, particularly in the West Auckland part of the Mana seat, did not like the Mana join up to internet party which was [KDC’s] personal party. All votes for all parties slanted towards defeating Hone because of the arrangement he had with [KDC].
        Hone’s vote may have increased but so did Labours by a bigger degree than Hone’s
        [KDC] himself said that he caused Hone to lose the seat.

        [KDC] was the main cause of Kelvin Davis’s victory.

        [see moderator note above – weka]

        • Leftie 4.5.3.1
          8 September 2016 at 1:46 pm

          Pity you remained so stubbornly infantile Billmurray, because written intelligently, the few points raised in your post, would have been made more credible, but it got lost in the noise of a petty mentality of a 4 year old.

          • billmurray 4.5.3.1.1
            8 September 2016 at 1:59 pm

            My My Leftie ,you are bundle of joy to-day, have you shit your pants, again!.

            [Please read moderator comments up thread. I suggest that you also read the site Policy, esp the bit about wasting moderators’ time, and think carefully about your next move. I’m not impressed at having to spend time editing your bigotry, let alone finding you are now trying to wind people up. Pull your head in. – weka]

      • Leftie 4.5.4
        8 September 2016 at 1:36 pm

        You’re in denial Colonial Viper. Dotcom had a lot to do with Hone losing his seat.

      • te reo putake 4.5.5
        8 September 2016 at 2:10 pm

        Not according to Hone. He now cheerfully admits Dotcom was toxic. Anyway, blame the voters. They’re the ones that ganged up on him, not the other parties who were just doing what parties do in elections. Y’know, standing candidates, trying win votes etc. It’s the voters who reckoned Hone wasn’t up to the job.

        Time to end the disastrous experiment with democracy and just let haters on blogs choose our representatives, I reckon.

      • North 4.5.6
        8 September 2016 at 10:02 pm

        You know CV part of me agrees with you about the bizo of Dotcom and then a part of me agrees with Leftie down below.

        I’m in the North, not a bastard right wing pig, reasonably close to it when it was happening and all I can say is this……it was a gamble, but who can blame ?

        And we don’t know whether Dotcom was more damaging than the obviously destructive every-party-hating on Hone. I go the latter actually.

        But anyway……there’s a ‘Reckoning’ coming. Whatever Shallow Man Key says. I want Hone Harawira to be at the forefront of that ‘Reckoning’. For the reason that shit times for the people requires pono leadership.

    • North 4.6
      8 September 2016 at 9:32 pm

      Always said that CV. One Maori MP for North is better than two FFS?……like Hone AND Davis is a fuck-up FFS? Like Davis only and therefore not Hone nor Laila, that was a win for Maori and progressiveness? And the voice of the poor? It’s the one aspect in which I was really disappointed with David Cunliffe. That he performed in that dirty cynical beneath us circus about Hone…….I suspect that in his heart he really, really respected and still respects Hone. So why ?

  5. save nz 5
    8 September 2016 at 10:08 am

    This country is going to the dogs.

  6. Leftie 6
    8 September 2016 at 11:04 am

    Iain Lees Galloway was awesome!!!

  7. jean brookes 7
    8 September 2016 at 11:07 am

    I listened to the whole thing! Amazing experience as the government sent a succession of MPs to sit ‘in the chair’ who said nothing, apart from short appearance from the Housing Minister…….. A Lot of the time, the few government speakers showed they simply did not have their facts right……Fantastic passion and evidence-based’ input from Labour, Greens and NZF. Astonishing contradictory speech from David Seymour attacking the second part of the government proposal then voting for it.
    How will Labour and the Greens use their proposals and the supporting speeches out into the public arena?

  8. BobInAkl 8
    8 September 2016 at 11:42 am

    A thought occurs, by putting up the amendments and having them defeated does it mean that any members bill that gets drawn from the ballot that proposes the same can be struck out as already having been decided on and defeated by the house? Applies for the rest the parlimentry term, or is it the calendar year?

    Snookered themselves?

  9. Takere 9
    8 September 2016 at 2:03 pm

    And 12 iwi in Tamaki Makaurau having the FRoR (First Right of Refusal) on land that was confiscated under the Works Act to be offered to iwi at Market rate and paid for by iwi on account… how the fuck is that redress? SHA. Shite Housing Areas.

  10. Observer Tokoroa 10
    8 September 2016 at 4:49 pm

    .
    .Hi Leftie

    Bill Murray is a strange writer on here. Not worth a second of your time.

    The Americans do everything they can to hold onto copyright. One Corporation even fraudulently for a number of years made people pay up for singing “Happy Birthday” claiming they owned the copyright on the song.

    American avarice coupled with a gullible Legal system work together to make any real or imagined case against another business man forfeit his rights.

    John Key is the worlds most renowned lackey, and supports USA for his own selfish reasons. He is totally self centric.

    As you have said, the treatment of KDC by Key and his Police Force as well as his despicable Spies, is absolutely contrary to New Zealand justice.

    Bill Murray who doesn’t wish to endorse New Zealand Justice, is not worth a wit of your time Leftie.

    .

    • Leftie 10.1
      8 September 2016 at 6:09 pm

      Well said, and Hello Observer Tokoroa 🙂
      Yes, I remember reading about that “Happy Birthday” scam that Warner/Chapell ran, corporate greed holds no bounds and more often than not, the law doesn’t even feature, when it comes to ripping people off, does it?

    • North 10.2
      8 September 2016 at 9:42 pm

      “Me and Malcolm Love One Another Forever, Aye.” says John Key.

      Fuck me what an embarassment is that man ?

      I wanna see Gina Rinehart bluster and shove her staggeringly ugly being in there……and fuck them both ! Guess who’d love it most……

  11. Lloyd 11
    10 September 2016 at 12:21 am

    Whatever.
    All I know is that the Parliament channel was by far the best, happiest and funniest channel on Freeview that night.

  12. Justme 12
    10 September 2016 at 4:25 pm

    Here is a scenario: A child once asked his/her father as to what is the point of a National MP in NZ. The father responds with ‘A good question my child. A National MP is there for the photo opportunities, the pay packet, the perks of the job and whatever else there is.”
    The child says: What the ‘whatever else there is’ means?
    The father patiently explains the “whatever else there is” is whatever is in the best interest of the National MP in the relevant area that MP happens to be in. For example he(she)may be an MP in the Christchurch region and we all know a National MPs’ property/properties in such a region are repaired in record time compared to what ordinary Canterbury residents can expect. There is an industry in the Canterbury region called CERA where former National MPs are paid more a day or a week than what low income NZers can expect in a fortnight or a month. There is one fellow who loves being addressed as Prime Minister who cannot even cope with whatever is happening in NZ and must head off overseas using his very own Air Force One whenever he can. A National MP(and PM) makes promises especially when close to an election that is not kept to once the votes have been counted in favour of that MP/PM. These are the qualities of a National MP.
    And so the child responds with “Then we are pretty well fucked aren’t we?”
    Father: My child. Even though I hate hearing such words from you you have narrowed it down well into a nut-shell.

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