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National wanted Dotcom to stay in NZ

Written By: - Date published: 8:30 am, July 15th, 2014 - 202 comments
Categories: john banks, john key, national, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags: ,

You know the large German Industrialist who gave Auckland $500,000 for a fireworks display and John Banks $50,000 for his Mayoral campaign?  The man whose house was raided by helicopter riding armed police for the heinous offence of breaching copyright?  The man who the Government has been hell bent on getting extradited?  The one who John Key says he never heard of until just before the raid?

Well it appears that the Government applied political pressure on Immigration NZ and the SIS to grant Dotcom approval to stay.

From the Herald:

The SIS tried to block Kim Dotcom’s residency application but dropped their objection 90 minutes after being told there was “political pressure” to let the tycoon into New Zealand, secret documents from the spy agency reveal.

Last night the leader of the Dotcom-funded Internet Party, Laila Harre, said she “wouldn’t have been comfortable” granting the tycoon residency if she had been the Minister of Immigration.

Documents declassified and released through the Official Information Act show the Security Intelligence Service describing Dotcom as a “bad but wealthy man” who was under criminal investigation by the FBI.

And the Minister in charge of the SIS is?

The “political pressure” claim was made in October 2010 after the SIS blocked Dotcom’s residency application when it learned of the FBI’s criminal investigation into his Megaupload empire.

On October 22 that year, one SIS agent wrote to another saying: “INZ [Immigration NZ] has phoned me to advise that the INZ CEO [Nigel Bickle] is questioning why this case is on hold. Apparently there is some ‘political pressure’ to process this case.”

The agent noted the need for the “CEO” to be briefed on the Dotcom case. The SIS director at the time was Dr Warren Tucker, who reports directly to Prime Minister John Key.

One hour and 27 minutes later, another SIS agent said the agency’s block would be lifted, writing: “Since Dotcom is not of security concern, there is no reason for this application to be on hold with us. Please can you inform your INZ contacts of this, also noting Dotcom is the subject of a criminal investigation and that they need to discuss the case with NZ Police before they proceed with granting him PR [permanent residency].”

On October 27, 2010, the SIS again urged Immigration NZ to discuss Dotcom with the police, saying “just from looking at his records INZ do have enough on his criminal history to not give him [residency]”.

The next day, an SIS agent was instructed to brief INZ’s intelligence chief, Theo Kuper, ahead of a meeting scheduled with Dr Coleman to brief him on “the background regarding FBI/NZ Police”.

In an email later that day, the SIS agent asked: “How did the meeting go with the minister?”

Mr Kuper responded: “My responsibility is to merely provide information and advice which hopefully will lead to the right decision being made. What I do know is that the Minister of Immigration is an interested party as the Investor Plus Residence category (for high rollers with more [than] $10 million to spend in NZ) is a government priority because of the economic benefits to NZ.”

The Herald has released the original papers released and these can be viewed here.

This revelation raises many questions.  On the face of it Jonathan Coleman applied direct pressure to persuade Immigration NZ to change its view on Dotcom’a application even though he was told that Dotcom was a “bad but wealthy man”.  One can speculate on possible reasons.  The Dotcom donations to John Banks were made in June 2010 some four months before.  Maybe Banks put a good word in with Jonathan Coleman?

And you have to wonder if the FBI preferred that Dotcom remain in New Zealand.  If he was to move elsewhere then extradition may have been an issue.  The released papers record that the FBI was interested in the possibility of joint action with New Zealand Police aimed at Dotcom.

Fortunately for National John Key is currently overseas and will be unable to answer questions for a period of time on the subject.  But it is starting to stretch things to incredulity for the Government to maintain that Key had never heard of Dotcom until just before the raid.


 

Updated: See also

202 comments on “National wanted Dotcom to stay in NZ”

  1. karol 1

    How can a PM be incommunicado, when serious questions need answers, no matter where in the world he is?

  2. Chooky 2

    Laila Harre great on Morning Report.. . The Internet Party could not have picked a better advocate.

    • Colonial Viper 2.1

      It’s pissed National off no end. And demonstrated what smart operators both Dotcom and Harawira are. And Harre for seeing the potential in this political insurgency…

      • Enough is Enough 2.1.1

        And that is why it is absolutely critical to ensure that the left thinks tactically this election. Hone must win. We must do whatever it takes to secure his victory.

    • Gosman 2.2

      You mean Kim Dotcom couldn’t have picked a better advocate. Interesting though that many people thought the Internet Party stood for something other than just being KDC’s personal political advocacy group.

      • McFlock 2.2.1

        Whoever was applying political pressure to immigration and the SIS on his behalf were pretty good KDC advocates, too. Who were they? Best guess is “starts with ‘M’ and sounds like ‘sinister'”.

  3. Paul 3

    Jonathan Coleman unavailable for comment on Radio New Zealand Nine to Noon
    Running for cover

    • Tracey 3.1

      he has to wait for the internal polling and the phone call from Mark Crosby to John key about what the “truth” of this matter is. That takes some time. It’s hard to remember all the lies. remember Paula Bennett like a possum in the headlights to that tv journalists when asked about the Cabinet Club? She couldn’t for the life of her remember if it was a secret or not, so went to default position “A”. Lie.

  4. One Anonymous Bloke 4

    Dear Leader has this knack of being out of the country for sticky moments in the KDC fiasco.

    • Tracey 4.1

      THAT IS A LIE. Slylands will be along to tell us all that in the Bible of John Key’s life that he has read (over and over (apart from the pages that are stuck together) it is clear that the leader would do no such thing. he needs a holiday because it’s hard being a saint day in day out.

      • srylands 4.1.1

        Your toilet humour and rudeness is despicable.

        I have read it once, as you should.

        and yes it is completely absurd to believe that John Key would go on vacation to coincide with anything to do with KDC. If you can find a single rational person who believes that I will apologise and withdraw. By rational I mean not you and your fellow bitter and twisted travellers here.

        And to repeat your toilet humour is disgusting. You don’t deserve to own a dog.

        • Tracey 4.1.1.1

          In New Zealand we call it a “holiday”.

          • Colonial Viper 4.1.1.1.1

            Tracey 😀

          • AmaKiwi 4.1.1.1.2

            In New Zealand we call it a “holiday”.

            Just like the “volunteers” “liberating the Crimea.” They forgot to change their watches from Moscow time.

            I wonder if “syrlands” is blogging from D.C.

          • Gosman 4.1.1.1.3

            I do find it funny that people here call Whaleoil and Kiwiblog the sewer and yet don’t see the hypocrasy in comments such as yours.

            [lprent: Huh? Even the saint comment was well within bounds of prophecy.
            What are you wasting my time for? ]

        • bad12 4.1.1.2

          Are you suggesting SSLands, that under the ‘no surprises’ convention the Prime Minister is not advised of Official Information Requests that are of political significance OR that directly effect national security issues,

          If you are, i would suggest a quick trip for you is required so as to avail yourself of a little lie down on your favorite doctors couch,

          As Prime Minister, Slippery the incumbent is advised of all such OIA requests,(probably even got the ‘heads up’ that the Herald was going into print with the results)…

          • Tracey 4.1.1.2.1

            Be fair, he is still in mourning from first Brash and then Banks wrecking that ” great political party in ACT”. JohnKeyO is all he has left of his “the market says yes” credo.

        • framu 4.1.1.3

          for someone who made repeated cracks about someones weight yesterday you should shut the fuck up on the issue of rudeness – fucking little creep

          • McFlock 4.1.1.3.1

            but that was the sslands who lives in NZ. The SSlands who lives in Australia has very delicate sensibilities.

            • Tracey 4.1.1.3.1.1

              it is tough for the one in NZ. He is pretending to have a wife who votes greens while his australian alter ego slags off the greens right, left and centre right

        • Daveosaurus 4.1.1.4

          Your problem isn’t with Tracey; it’s with whoever is holding you down and forcing you to read her comments.

        • Murray Olsen 4.1.1.5

          I imagine that, after SSLands had read it once, most of the pages would be stuck together.

          PS. I own no pets, but the dog from upstairs often comes down to see me.

      • srylands 4.1.2

        Oh and BTW not only am I cynical of all politicians, I am not a cheer leader for the National Party.

        • bad12 4.1.2.1

          i was considering commenting to you SSLands on ‘owning’ and ‘dogs’, however self moderation has me loath to avail you of my exact thoughts on these subjects vis a vis ‘you’,

          There is no need of you to remind us that you are in fact ACT scum, that fact drips from every word that you publish here…

        • One Anonymous Bloke 4.1.2.2

          😆

          “Disgusting”. Poor prurient pot, meet kettle.

          As for Key’s pattern of behaviour in this case, “once is a mistake, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.”

        • freedom 4.1.2.3

          so you won’t mind answering framu’s simple question then

          Let’s play blame the public servant

          you’ve had a good long while (11 days) to formulate your response

          • Tracey 4.1.2.3.1

            LOL

          • framu 4.1.2.3.2

            ive also asked him a real simple one about privatising roads which has gone un answered for months

            cmon sslands – if all roads are privatised how do i change suppliers if i dont like the one who owns the road outside my house?

      • greywarbler 4.1.3

        @Tracey
        You have an aladdin’s lamp do you? You just rub it and the mean spirit of Srylands personifies, admonishes you and gives out little bitey bits of twisted wisdom, that gnaw off your fingers. At least you needn’t cut your fingernails.

    • Anne 4.2

      Dear Leader has this knack of being out of the country for sticky moments in the KDC fiasco.

      Its not a knack… Dear Leader and Dear Foreign minister and Dear Immigration minister are warned in advance that the story is going to break so they absent themselves from the country altogether or find a cave somewhere in the Ureweras to hide. Wouldn’t surprise me if “Dear Leader” instructed someone to ensure the story didn’t break until he was well out of the country!

      Remember, its the Dear Herald who have broken the story and Dear Editor, John Roughan is a Dear Leader fanboy….

      • One Anonymous Bloke 4.2.1

        …all of which can be summed up by the phrase: ‘an acquired aptitude* for being out of the country at opportune moments.’

        *or knack.

        In this case it’s called “no surprises”.

  5. Paul 5

    Jonathan Coleman ‘not available’ to discuss the issue on Nine to Noon.
    Running for cover.

    • deep throat 5.1

      The whole government or the rump thats left in Wellington is gearing up to make a fullscale assault on the floods in Northland.
      They are really going to make ameal out of it and get their gobs all over the 6 o’clock news.
      They aren’t actually going to do anything that is not already being done.
      They just going to talk about it and use it for electioneering.
      bloody despicable.

      • hoom 5.1.1

        Doubtless they will claim that if there was a 4 lane motorway all the way to Russel then the invisible hand of market forces would have held the rain away or something.

  6. Lanthanide 6

    On National Radio this morning, I believe it was Laila Harre who said that immigration (or some department?) changed their mind about the block on Dotcom, the day after John Key met with Warner Brothers execs in NZ (presumably over the Hobbit kerfluffle).

    • Paul Campbell 6.1

      She said the SIS changed their mind – they were somehow involved with the FBI’s interest in Dotcom

      Now someone explain to me why the SIS is involved in copyright enforcement?

      • Colonial Viper 6.1.1

        Part of the US led merger of corporate power and government power.

        NB only copyright issues affecting big corporates players matter. The US authorities were more than happy to destroy unique family photos, personal correspondence, projects and small business documents which were stored on Mega Upload.

        • Tracey 6.1.1.1

          Part of the now open US led merger of government power into corporate power

          FIFY

          Thanks to Snowden it is now open, before it was covered up.

          • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1.1

            Part of the now open US led merger of government power into corporate power

            And the F(acism) word is often over used in politics, but I believe it fully applies when the merger of government power into corporate power is dominated by the military-surveillance-security complex, all funded by the banking fraternity.

      • Tracey 6.1.2

        Because under our Govt all of our taxpayer funded services are available to our US masters. I hope this clarifies it for you Paul Campbell.

      • Ross 6.1.3

        Someone explain to me why the PM is meeting Warner Bros?

        • Tracey 6.1.3.1

          Ever since he was a boy he wanted to be;

          Insert as appropriate

          A prime minister
          Actor
          Golfer
          Member of royalty

  7. karol 7

    Laila Harre said on RNZ:

    We also know that the day before the immigration, the SIS lifted their block, the Prime Minister was meeting with Warner Brothers in New Zealand. We know that there had been discussions, in fact the emails reveal from the SIS their advice to the immigration Service [GE interupts] they should discuss this police investigation.

    Guyon reads from OIA document.

    Harre refers to other documents/emails (not just from the latest OIA), show the immigration Minister was fully briefed on the KDC investigation.

    Audio files here.

    [audio src="http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mnr-20140715-0715-internet_leader_harre_says_she_would_have_declined_dotcom-048.mp3" /]

    • Paul 7.1

      He does seem to meet Warner Brothers a lot.
      Very dodgy

      • Anne 7.1.1

        Think you will find Warner Bros. is a convenient cover story. He can’t keep tripping off to the Pentagon or Langley… sooner or later someone would spot him. Btw, Hawaii has a CIA sub-headquarters so that’s convenient for him.

    • greywarbler 7.2

      Thanks karol for putting up the audio.

      Laila came over as very principled. I hope the NZ populace still understand what that is, after having observed neo lib eels in parliament for so long. And that is disrespecting eels mentioning them in conjunction with such company.

  8. Jrobin 8

    I can’t believe what I’ve just read in the OIA’s. Surely they can’t get away with this one! I wish I had magic ink, xray eyes, to read the redacted sections as the reason given was international security, relationship with other country ( read USA). Also wonder who the two people were who signed off the immigration document as it wasn’t Coleman. Key being absent is not going to help this time, he looks to be ducking for cover. Today’s Morning Report a very bad look, manipulating process in two major cases. Crime stats, Immigration. Note they re letting Collins take the rap as she s already dscreditted and Tolley wants to look clean.
    Is this NZs Watergate ??…..or is this the moment we have conclusive proof that the average IQ of kiwi voters is 80.

  9. wyndham 9

    If the Herald has seen fit to dump this load on Key and the Nats, am I being the ultimate cynic in suspecting that said newspaper has an even bigger heap to drop on Labour ? Perhaps nearer the election ?

    • greywarbler 9.1

      @wyndham
      Yes I wondered too. What’s in it for The Hairy? Watch this space eh.

    • McFlock 9.2

      possibly.

      Or get it out of the way as quickly as possible rather than having it drag on.

      Or too big to ignore.

      Or indeed maybe they figure the nats are screwed so might want to hedge their bets for the new government – tories devour their weak…

    • Tracey 9.3

      They have done it while the liar in chief is fetching bats in the USA dugout.

  10. Ad 10

    Finally, a reason for the Internet Party to exist.

    Labour can stay well clear of this story – so Laila can underline that it’s the PM alone who makes calls to override SIS advice, not lowly Coleman.

    • Tracey 10.1

      It does seem unlikely a cabinet minister could override a call by the SIS without the Minister in charge of the SIS being consulted

  11. AmaKiwi 11

    Anyone know the preferred PM rating for: 1.Stephen Joyce, 2. Judith Collins, 3. Murray McCully?

  12. veutoviper 12

    Chris Keall at the NBR now has an article up commenting on the Herald revelations and situation Laila Harre finds herself and the IP in, which is worth reading (and not currently paywalled). It also raises the long non-answered question of what Key knew and when, and Grant Robertson’s response to the latest Herald revelations. (Incidently, the Herald article has been updated with Robertson’s views etc. since it was first published earlier this morning.)

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/opinion/dotcom-residency-revelations-put-harre-tricky-CK

    As I noted in my earlier comment on Open Mike @ 1.6, KDC’s extradition hearing has been delayed until 16 Feb 2015. This was announced last week but not widely reported by the media. KDC tweeted the change, and I think Radio NZ also reported it, but there was nothing on Stuff, the Herald etc.

    Keall also raises the possibility that there may be some type of revelation closer to the election about Key’s involvement and his claim not to have known about KDC until the day before the Jan 2012 raid. About two weeks ago, KDC tweeted something cryptic along the lines of “Sept 15 – Day of Truth for NZ”. Cannot remember the exact words, and don’t have time right now to find it. But at the time, I wondered whether that will about Key’s claims ….

    • Tiger Mountain 12.1

      Key will possibly be prepping future handling of his ‘misspeakings’ and ‘disrememberings’ regarding Kim Dotcom as we blog.

      The left should be doing likewise, because other media people can also hardly contain themselves with the pending likelihood of information surfacing that shows the Prime Minister having known more than he said he did earlier than he said he did.

      What should the attitude be towards a Prime Minister that is uncontrovertibly caught lying to the country. Especially when retrospective legislation relating to illegal surveillance of not just Kim Dotcom but various NZ citizens as well is involved?

    • karol 12.2

      This Tweet by KDC on 27 June:

      >>>>>> September 15th
      A big day for New Zealand
      THE MOMENT OF TRUTH
      Event details coming soon

      • veutoviper 12.2.1

        That’s the one. Thanks Karol.

        Some months ago, some kind person here provided a link to how to search tweets which I have lost. If anyone can remind me of the link, I would be most grateful.

        • Topsy.com – no sign-in required, and the advanced search allows you to search within a single user’s tweet history. 🙂

          • veutoviper 12.2.1.2.1

            Thanks Karol and Stephanie.

            I have been ‘otherwise occupied’ for the last few hours – hanging out washing, finding that I had left a door of my car slightly open leading to a flat battery, borrowing neighbour’s car to get to supermarket, etc…. In the course of those duties, I remembered that it was Stephanie who had provided the link to me some months ago, and was about to search for her comment.

            So Stephanie you have saved me doing so! Topsy.dom is easy to use – and you don’t have to be a Twitter signed in user. I don’t have a Twitter account, and prefer not to join if I can help it.

            Now can either of you help me with my flat battery ? Just kidding – somewhere in the disaster area called my garage, I have a car battery charger so an overnight charge should sort it.

  13. AmaKiwi 13

    Next Year’s News:

    Wellington 2015

    PM Cunliffe has asked President Obama to facilitate the speedy extradition of John Key back to NZ.

    • NZJester 13.1

      That is a great fairytale AmaKiwi, but the US does not like to extradite their citizens to other countries and John Key is a US citizen with his home in Hawaii.

      He is only here on a corporate raid to strip this under valued country of its assets and make us all redundant ready to sell off this country in small slices to anyone who wants a piece at the right price.

      Under previous Labour Governments this country got to asset rich and became to tempting a target for corporate raiders wanting to make a nice profit at our expense.

      • greywarbler 13.1.1

        @NZJester
        That sums it up well, baldly and shockingly. Perhaps we will get a lightning strike that covers the whole country before the elections to give us the shock that we need to wake our synapses up.

      • Colonial Viper 13.1.2

        That is a great fairytale AmaKiwi, but the US does not like to extradite their citizens to other countries and John Key is a US citizen with his home in Hawaii.

        Key remains a NZ citizen as well, yes?

      • karol 13.1.3

        John Key doesn’t need to be a US citizen to own property in Hawaii.

        There is no evidence that he is a US citizen.

        • AmaKiwi 13.1.3.1

          The United States has the best laws money can buy, a model being emulated by National.

          With big enough campaign contributions (bribes) anything is possible in the good ol’ USA.

          • karol 13.1.3.1.1

            Why would Key bother with US citizenship at this stage of his life, if he can own property there without it?

            • Colonial Viper 13.1.3.1.1.1

              He’s probably the holder of a Green Card, which gives him wide latitude for residing and working in the US

        • Lanthanide 13.1.3.2

          In fact, the US requires new citizens relinquish their prior citizenship. Most other countries still recognise their original citizenship, but for the purposes of being Prime Minister you must be an NZ citizen.

    • Tracey 13.2

      Lol

  14. karol 14

    The cover letter to David Fisher of the NZ Herald, from Rebecca Kitteridge on behalf of the SIS, accompanying the OIA documents, is dated 8 July.

    3 days later, on 11 July, NZ Herald reported that Key had gone on holiday the previous day, most likely to Hawaii. ie Key had gone on holiday on 10 July.

    • Tracey 14.1

      So the herald could have sought comment from Key before he left to include in their story?

      • karol 14.1.1

        How long does it take for such documents to be delivered following the Kitteridge sign off?

        Key would most certainly have been warned the release was about to happen.

        • Tracey 14.1.1.1

          It would be electronic in my experience, and usually arrives the day the letter was signed.

          • karol 14.1.1.1.1

            So Kitteridge sends out letter on 8th (Just after the beginning of school holidays). Key would have been notified prior to that. He packs his & family’s bags on 9th and pisses off on 10th.

            Audrey Young publishes Key has gone next day a Friday (until about 21st – also the end of school holidays). NZ Herald waits several days, until after the weekend to publish.

            • Ray 14.1.1.1.1.1

              Commentators here should pool together the various bits of info to set out the timeline relating to this saga. Although I am very busy, I would be delighted to contribute and fact-check.

              Something like http://www.dipity.com can be useful, with a link being left here on The Standard to point readers where exactly to go.

              Weeks ago, I was observing how Standardistas put together the timeline for the Liu nonsense and I was most impressed by how a group of people nailed the details.

              Some comments about dipity.com:

              “Dipity is a great timeline creation tool that allows users to incorporate text, images, and videos into each entry on their timeline. Like most good web tools, Dipity has a collaboration option and has multiple options for sharing your timelines publicly or privately. Each entry to a Dipity timeline can include multiple types of media which allows users to add more detail and information than can be included in a traditional timeline. If you want to import Tweets and other social media messages, you can do that too on Dipity. And as I learned earlier this week, Dipity will work on your iPad.”

    • greywarbler 14.2

      Chris Trotter has published a piece on the FBi and NZ and ‘our hands across the sea’ connection with a notebene – ‘This essay was originally posted on The Daily Blog on Friday, 14 February 2014.’
      http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2014/07/springing-trap-did-fbi-turn-new-zealand.html

      At the bottom he has a para making clear that he hadn’t realised before that the information was previously published in the Herald and he honours the journalist.

      the investigative journalist, David Fisher, in a NZ Herald article dated Monday, 25 March 2013, had already exposed the connivance of the New Zealand authorities

      We could be a banana republic. We can grow bananas here.
      We are in the Pacific and can get ideas from other islands like Tonga, which sold passports to interested foreigners. Hawaii was harvested by the USA late in the 1800s I think. Now our turn!

      • yeshe 14.2.1

        The link back to NZH for article by David Fisher is worth reading also … it’s at the bottom of that Bowalley page.

        Chris Trotter’s article written on Feb 14 and re-posted today has fine analysis of the whole sordid affair and how it has come to affect us all.

        Key will not escape this, imho.

    • Blue 14.3

      The Herald only publish OIA information instantaneously when it’s an 11-year-old letter signed by David Cunliffe.

      I’d imagine someone would get sacked for spoiling Dear Leader’s Hawaii holiday before it even began. How would we appreciate the wonder of his latest selfie otherwise?

    • Anne 14.4

      karol@14.1.1
      It would have been during his weekly/fortnightly meeting with the head of the SIS who was Cabinet Secretary under John Key, and appointed by him to the position of SIS Director.

  15. I’m really beginning to look forward to a criminal trial against John Key. Look forward to see what Graham McCready and his team are coming up with. Don’t you? Funny how John Key always seems to be abroad when mayhem ensues isn’t it!

    • Tracey 15.1

      He is going to need some pretty compelling evidence, which isnt readily apparent.

      • karol 15.1.1

        I don’t have a lot of confidence in McCready using “Wolf of Wall Street” as evidence.

        • Tracey 15.1.1.1

          LOL

          It seems vexacious on the face of it… Unless the actual wolf of wall street worked with Key and is giving evidence… 😉

          • travellerev 15.1.1.1.1

            He got a conviction against Banks didn’t he, John Key said that was never going to happen either

            • Tracey 15.1.1.1.1.1

              Er he had evidence that banks told dotcom to split donations to make them anonymous. What evidence are you aware of against Key for this specific charge against Key.

              • yeshe

                Tracey .. what Key said himself in the House, I would think. The fact proven by his own mouth that Key wilfully refused to read the reports on Banks .. and that’s just for starters. I’m sure there’s more if we look ….

                And using Wolf of Wall Street as evidence of Key’s background before becoming PM may yet turn out to be a perfect work of art by Mr McC .. sure has got him a lot of publicity !

                • Tracey

                  Can you point me to the law he broke by not reading the police report on Banks?

                  • yeshe

                    Tracey .. let me see what I can find … but, no, I can’t right now, sorry … wish I could tho ! But I trust G.McC must have something .. he is in the dark shadow of possible vexatious litigant charges if he doesn’t, wouldn’t you think ?

                    • yeshe

                      Tracey .. don’t know if this is useful .. from TVNZ news .. June 17 2014 ..

                      ……”McCready has now filed charges against Key – one of “conspiracy to defeat justice”, and being an “accessory to knowingly making a return of election expenses containing one or more false particulars”.

                      McCready has alleged the prime minister conspired to prevent Banks being charged.

                      The second charge related to the prime minister refusing to read the police report, remaining “wilfully blind” to its contents, McCready said.

                      He has also filed the same charges against Detective Inspector Mark Benefield, who headed the police investigation into Banks’ donations, and filed the criminal assessment report.” ……

                      http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/key-police-officer-targeted-in-new-banks-case-charges-6004981

                    • He is charged with being an accessory after the fact. Helping someone to hide a crime after it was committed is not a good look.

                    • Tracey

                      thanks yeshe

                      see my posts below. There are other papers relating to charges against Key and Fletcher so am feeling a bit confused.

              • First of all it is not my case. Second there is such a thing as circumstantial evidence. I said I am curious. I would like to know what will happen. What has emerged now might be added to the case. Interference in police, court and SIS matters is a serious matter. You try it and see how long before they come down on you like a ton of bricks.

                • Tracey

                  For what?

                  Mccreadys case must have existed before the latest herald revelations, so leave them aside for the moment;

                  What has mccready charged Key with and where is it written that Key had a legal obligation to read a police report on Banks. Morality and highest ethical standards are irrelevant in a court case.

                  • McFlock

                    yeah.
                    Personally, it’s a bit like winning lotto – nice to have, but I’ll believe it when I see it.

                    McCready does have a good success rate against politicians, and probably shouldn’t be written off any more than someone would write off Winston Peters. But it could just be an election gambit more than anything else.

                    • karol

                      He failed re- Len Brown. And it did seem very likely to some of us that McCready didn’t have a strong case.

                  • yeshe

                    @Tracey .. see reply to you above .. sorry, all numbers have disappeared from posts !!

              • Also when civil servants get bullied and thwarted they get kind of antsy. Maybe some of them will want to come clean and testify against John Key.

                • Tracey

                  Dont get me wrong, I would love to see Key held to

                  “His case involves a section of the Crimes Act that prohibits the use of interception devices and says “everyone is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years who intentionally intercepts any private communication by means of an interception device”.

                  See 216B and 66b crimes act

                  • Me too.

                    If the judge decides there is no case to answer for it is New Zealand Private Prosecution Service in the firing line if at all. If John Key decides to try and get back at Graham McCready he prolongs his exposure to scrutiny. I’m sure he doesn’t want that.

                  • Tiger Mountain

                    Retrospective legislation got ShonKey and the GCSB off the immediate hook for illegal snooping on Kim Dotcom and 80 odd others so it will be interesting to see what legal squiggles are employed by McCready.

                    Media summaries for non legal types hint “what case?”; but it will keep the issue before the public and annoy the heck out of the torys.

                    Remember the Banksie case would never get to court, would be laughed out of court, KDC would not be considered a reliable witness, Banksie would not be found guilty, Banksie would get a discharge without conviction…

                    • yeshe

                      Yes TM .. GMcC needs our support and gratitude I think !

                    • Tracey

                      I’m confused the papers are reporting he is charging key with being a party to Banks’ electoral fraud, but the papers I saw filed last year allege deeds under Crimes Act as above relating to surveillance.

                      “claims the police failed to properly investigate the politician, under Mr Key’s instruction.” – referring to Banks

                    • Tracey

                      Tiger

                      Was the following deemed no longer actionable, do yout hink, because of the GCSB legislation changes?

                      June 2013
                      PHIL DOYLE/Fairfax NZ
                      FIGHTING: Graham McCready, who is bringing action against John Banks.

                      An amateur litigant who has a court case against MP John Banks under way and plans one against MP Peter Dunne is now advancing the process against Prime Minister John Key.

                      Graham McCready, a retired accountant, of Wellington, has filed informations with the Wellington District Court against Key alleging that he broke the Crimes Act by using or authorising illegal surveillance on internet entrepreneur Kim Dotcom .

                      He has submitted the same informations against Government Communications Security Bureau head Ian Fletcher.

                      Deputy registrar Kevin Conroy has acknowledged the informations.

                      “I now have to consider the matter of the issue of summonses under the provisions of the Summary Procedures Act 1957,” he said.

                      He said he must be satisfied that the informations and summons disclosed an offence and there was sufficient information to fairly inform the defendants.

                      McCready is asked to provide a full written summary of the facts.

                      His case involves a section of the Crimes Act that prohibits the use of interception devices and says “everyone is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years who intentionally intercepts any private communication by means of an interception device”.

                      Key’s office had no comment.

                      McCready has previously taken private prosecutions against MPs Trevor Mallard and Banks. The prosecution against Mallard alleged assault, but the Labour MP later pleaded guilty to fighting in a public place in 2007.

                      In May, Banks pleaded not guilty to a charge alleging he filed a false electoral return in the Auckland mayoralty race three years ago.u

                  • Tracey

                    216 B Prohibition on use of interception devices

                    (1) Subject to subsections (2) to (5), every one is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 2 years who intentionally intercepts any private communication by means of an interception device.

                    (2) Subsection (1) does not apply where the person intercepting the private communication—

                    (a) is a party to that private communication; or

                    (b) does so pursuant to, and in accordance with the terms of, any authority conferred on him or her by or under—

                    (i) the Search and Surveillance Act 2012; or

                    (ii) [Repealed]

                    (iii) the New Zealand Security Intelligence Service Act 1969; or

                    (iiia) the Government Communications Security Bureau Act 2003; or

                    (iv) [Repealed]

                    (v) the International Terrorism (Emergency Powers) Act 1987.

                    (3) [Repealed]

                    (4) Subsection (1) does not apply to any monitoring of a prisoner call under section 113 of the Corrections Act 2004 or any interception of a private communication if the interception is authorised under section 189B of that Act.

                    (5) Subsection (1) does not apply to the interception of private communications by any interception device operated by a person engaged in providing an Internet or other communication service to the public if—

                    (a) the interception is carried out by an employee of the person providing that Internet or other communication service to the public in the course of that person's duties; and

                    (b) the interception is carried out for the purpose of maintaining that Internet or other communication service; and

                    (c) the interception is necessary for the purpose of maintaining the Internet or other communication service; and

                    (d) the interception is only used for the purpose of maintaining the Internet or other communication service.

                    (6) Information obtained under subsection (5) must be destroyed immediately if it is no longer needed for the purpose of maintaining the Internet or other communication service.

                    (7) Any information held by any person that was obtained while assisting with the execution of a surveillance device warrant issued under the Search and Surveillance Act 2012 must, upon expiry of the warrant, be—

                    (a) destroyed immediately; or

                    (b) given to the agency executing the warrant.

                    Parties to the commission of offences
                    66 Parties to offences

                    (1) Every one is a party to and guilty of an offence who—

                    (a) actually commits the offence; or

                    (b) does or omits an act for the purpose of aiding any person to commit the offence; or

                    (c) abets any person in the commission of the offence; or

                    (d) incites, counsels, or procures any person to commit the offence.

                    (2) Where 2 or more persons form a common intention to prosecute any unlawful purpose, and to assist each other therein, each of them is a party to every offence committed by any one of them in the prosecution of the common purpose if the commission of that offence was known to be a probable consequence of the prosecution of the common purpose.

                    14 Interceptions not to target New Zealand citizens or permanent residents for intelligence-gathering purposes

                    (1) In performing the Bureau's function in section 8B, the Director, any employee of the Bureau, and any person acting on behalf of the Bureau must not authorise or do anything for the purpose of intercepting the private communications of a person who is a New Zealand citizen or a permanent resident of New Zealand, unless (and to the extent that) the person comes within the definition of foreign person or foreign organisation in section 4.

                    (2) Any incidentally obtained intelligence obtained by the Bureau in the performance of its function in section 8B—

                    (a) is not obtained in breach of section 8B; but

                    (b) must not be retained or disclosed except in accordance with sections 23 and 25.

                    • yeshe

                      Tracey .. I think these are matters other than the recent charges against Key by GMcC.

  16. nadis 16

    I read throught the OIA docs and cant quite get the same spin on it as hte headlines suggest.

    Heres what I see:

    1. Head of INZ says there is political pressure to make a decision. But unf doesn’t say from where. What are the choices? John Banks? Immigration consultant or law firm lobbying their MP or a minister? Clearly this guy needs to be interviewed by the Herald – if he isn’t doorstopped that is just shoddy journalism
    2. After a meeting with head of SIS (presumably) SIS analyst writes a note saying” there are no security concerns around dotcom so we have no right to block his application.: That seems to be cosistent with NZ law. Same analyst says however it is likely Police will be involved in co-operation with USD govt so Immigration NZ should liase with Police before granting residency. Again -seems in line with law and common sense.
    3. INZ did not liase with Police and granted residency.

    I personally don’t think the smoking gun is at SIS or PM level – the smoking gun is why did INZ not liase with Police, and was that because of:
    a) INZ error,
    b) INZ doing the “turbulent priest” thing and deliberately not approaching Police
    c)INZ not approaching Police because of explicit direction from Minister

    That IMO is where OIA requests should be directed.

    And Re Laila Harre – her comments today are either some super inspired deep chess like strategy or something that will bite her large. You don’t think DotCom deserves to be in NZ but you’re prepared to take 3mm from him? I get ends justifies means etc but this will be thrown at her in every debate, every interview about the inconsistency between her ethical ideals and actual behaviour, along with the unanswerable question “Is DotCom buying your help re extradition” (Might as well – obviously all our politicians from every party are up for sale at varying prices. What surprises me is how low the price tends to be)

    • Tracey 16.1

      Sorry, laila harre received $3m from Kim Dot Com? That really IS news.

      If you are right she is not as cheap as the national and Labour parties. Have you considered she said she would lead the Internet party but that she would only do so provided DotCom stayed out of it from a policy, spokesperson point of vbiew and didnt push his own barrow?

      I know it can be hard for people who would do anything for money to consider such an alternative (that is NOT a dig at you because I have read your post carefully and see no evidence that you are in any way trying to suggest there is nothing to all this).

      Her ethical ideals appear to be

      Hold governments to account for following the constitutional process of the parliament;
      Getting good working and wage conditions for the working folks of NZ
      Ensuring Kiwis have privacy from prying unauthorized government eyes

      The Internet party stands for this stuff and more, so by speaking to the policies of the IP, namely a Govt apparently ignoring a SIS recommendation for either (money – letting in someone with lots of it) or because the USA wanted to trap him for a FBI extradition)… she has sold her ethical values down the road? Interesting take on it nadis. I accept it’s a view that some are taking, headed by Mr Espiner, but it is not the only way to look at this.

      I’ve also read the documents under OIA and it does seem that the process speeds up and changes course after the suggestion on a joint operation between FBI and NZ police against DotCom and a FULL briefing of the Minister. You don’t think it odd that the SIS, FBI, NZPolice and NZI all were discussing a secret joint OP, and the PM and Minister for SIS and Security services knew nothing about it?

      • srylands 16.1.1

        “You don’t think it odd that the SIS, FBI, NZPolice and NZI all were discussing a secret joint OP, and the PM and Minister for SIS and Security services knew nothing about it?”

        No it seems perfectly normal. Why do you think it is odd?

        • Tracey 16.1.1.1

          Because the subject was the pin up boy for the Pm’s “high roller” pet project.

          Your turn

          Why do you think it perfectly normal for the SIS to be over ruled by NZI and the Pm not know about it given he is in charge of the SIS?

        • McFlock 16.1.1.2

          wow.

          So on planet Key it’s perfectly normal for ministers to be oblivious of major events and operations being handled by their department.

          Yet again the level of personal responsibility tories expect of their leader is there for all to see.

          I can see why #teamdunnokeyo are so scared of Judith Collins: she was so well informed as to know about the “isolated” actions of a “handful” of officers fudging stats even after she was no longer police minister.

          Or maybe the tory idea of responsibility is to know nothing about their own house, but stick their nose into everyone else’s bedrooms?

          • Draco T Bastard 16.1.1.2.1

            Or maybe the tory idea of responsibility is to know nothing about their own house, but stick their nose into everyone else’s bedrooms?

            If the Tories actually went round knowing what their job was then they’d have to take responsibility and they can’t have that.

        • yeshe 16.1.1.3

          Just as perfectly normal as the fact Key was meeting with Warners executives at almost exactly the same time for the sole purpose of re-writing, to their complete detriment, employment laws of this country and our film industry.

          As my dad always used to say slands, better to keep your mouth shut and be mistaken for a fool than open it and remove all doubt.

        • kenny 16.1.1.4

          Moron.

    • karol 16.2

      IMP will continue to have to field those questions. They so far look up to dealing with them.

      From another perspective: I have wondered why Dotcom didn’t just put his money into supporting an existing party – eg Greens or Mana. I so far haven’t seen anything very unique to the IP policies. However, if Dotcom had just put his money into Mana and/or the Greens, those parties would have been the ones having to field questions about KDC’s influence.

      • Puckish Rogue 16.2.1

        “I have wondered why Dotcom didn’t just put his money into supporting an existing party”

        • Control. He bought and paid for his own party and people to run it so he can call the shots whereas if he’d just given money to an existing party he’d merely be a donor. He donated to John Banks but Banks wouldn’t play ball so he doesn’t want to take that chance again which is why hes gone for Harre and Harawira instead
        • Tracey 16.2.1.1

          His money would go so much further with the national party. They do favours for far less money.

          Collins
          Woodhouse
          Williamson

        • One Anonymous Bloke 16.2.1.2

          Yes, he’s completely in control of Laila Harre and Hone Harawira, and then you woke up 😆

          • Puckish Rogue 16.2.1.2.1

            Oh please they may not realise it but he owns them and they’ll do his bidding (to be fair mostly to do with blocking his extradation) or else

            He who pays the piper and all that

            • marty mars 16.2.1.2.1.1

              lol – “or else” what exactly?

              • Puckish Rogue

                Well John Banks got convicted for not doing what Dot Con wanted

                • Draco T Bastard

                  No, John Banks got convicted for being a criminal.

                • yeshe

                  puckish rogue — you making shit up or what ? Banks broke the law; he’s a crim!

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    If Banks had toed the line then he wouldn’t have been convicted because Dot con would have backed him up simple as that but he didn’t so Dot Con made an example of him

                    • yeshe

                      PR — None of your comment attenuates the fact that Banks has been found guilty of lying.

                    • emergency mike

                      Wow u iz tricky. However, Banks hadn’t broken the law then Dotcom wouldn’t have been able to get him convicted now would he? When you stab someone in the back be sure they’re not holding a gun.

                    • Tracey

                      tsk tsk thats conjecture, there is a guy who posts here who will be along to demand you provide proof. Oh waithat was you.

                    • McFlock

                      Your entire riff relies on people in IP/Mana being as corrupt and as stupid as john banks.

                      Good luck with that.

                    • Murray Olsen

                      “Proof please not conjecture”

                      Tory double standards are entertaining.

                • Riiiiight so Hone and Laila will be convicted of “not doing what Kim Dotcom wanted” – Puck you are a one-person comedy show.

            • Tracey 16.2.1.2.1.2

              Can you post your proof that he owns harre and harawira and that they are doing his bidding? No conjecture remember.

            • Tracey 16.2.1.2.1.3

              ohhhhhhh you mean like williamson and collins did mr liu and mr shi’s bidding, having paid the piper. Hell, williamson even became liu’s cable guy.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 16.2.1.2.1.4

              In what universe will Laila Harre or Hone Harawira be Minister of Justice?

              Puckish Rogue exhibits the well-documented delusions of a good little Party member.

        • Weepus beard 16.2.1.3

          From what I can tell Dotcom’s philosophy is born out of his tech/internet vision for New Zealand. It is called The Internet Party for a reason. No current party seemed interested in breaking the communications rort in this country so why would he consider taking his core philosophy to people who have no interest in it? Better to start fresh, get noticed, and perhaps make some changes for the betterment of New Zealanders.

          • Puckish Rogue 16.2.1.3.1

            Nothing to do with his upcoming extradition to face the music (heh) of course

            • Weepus beard 16.2.1.3.1.1

              No doubt that is part of it, but firstly he’s a driven individual and a business person at the very forefront of new developments in the internet industry. To me he knows he’s stuck here for a while due to certain well documented circumstances so he’s now showing the NZ public that he’s prepared to work hard for them in his area of expertise.

              I think firstly he’s a creator and contributor and if the NZ public see those skills as valuable then it will help his case. Why would he not use his talents to fight the Key government/FBI conglomerate?

              He’s not just going to sit here and wait. Good on him, I say.

            • Tracey 16.2.1.3.1.2

              So you agree that williamson, woodhouse and collins were doing the bidding of donors to the National party then?

        • thatguynz 16.2.1.4

          Clearly you know very little about Laila Harre then eh?…

      • Keiv 16.2.2

        One does wonder how far a political party will go on ‘proceeds of crime’. Will IMP have to return the cash once KDC is convicted & extradited ?

        • Tracey 16.2.2.1

          yup. The nats only take money from guys who beat their wives…

          ACT = garrett, awatere and banks. All fraudsters

          • Puckish Rogue 16.2.2.1.1

            Labour = Fields. Only NZ mp convicted of corruption.

            • McFlock 16.2.2.1.1.1

              Because the cops have a funny blindspot when it comes to evidence against tory mps.

            • Tracey 16.2.2.1.1.2

              which of national, ACT and Labour will you give your vote to this september,

            • Tracey 16.2.2.1.1.3

              good reminder. Thats labour, ACT! National and IP with chequered members/donors/ mps

              I will not vote for any of them so as not to endorse the cavalier disregard for integrity. You?

            • Draco T Bastard 16.2.2.1.1.4

              Strange, I could have sworn that lying about an electoral return amounts to corruption.

          • tinfoilhat 16.2.2.1.2

            Looking at the recently printed list of donors to political parties Tracey I’d suggest that’s a bit of a silly thing to say in a public forum as it suggests you think that persons like Graham Douglas and Bruce Plested are guilty of domestic violence against their partners.

            • Tracey 16.2.2.1.2.1

              does it? I dont know who they are. I am confidant what i wrote is clearly an opinion alluding to the recent case of Mr liu.

              • tinfoilhat

                Well if that’s so, perhaps you should state that clearly rather than …

                “The nats only take money from guys who beat their wives…”

                Which in my opinion unfairly smears the two persons I mentioned and perhaps others that also donate to the Nats.

                PS I also thought the Liu case was still before the courts, has it been heard already ?

                • Tracey

                  he pleaded guilty many weeks ago.

                  I think you attribute far too much import to my comments that you worry they could wreck a good reputation.

        • yeshe 16.2.2.2

          KDC cannot be convicted of anything unless he is extradited, and even then, it’s fragile and tenuous. In fact, what he was originally charged with is civil and not criminal, and therefore non-extraditable. Only when the FBI laid extra charges of something like racketeering and money-laundering did it even become actionable. ( Can offer details, but not just now.)

          This is what I think, after much reading and thoughtful consideration. Why the USA entertainment industry wants KDC stopped is the fact he was about to change the whole system; proof of which is what he is now about to do with a new music sharing company called Baboon, about to listed in Oz. His plan for his online companies, in association with some of the biggest artists and producers, was to pay directly to artists and musicians — he had plans to break the whole monopoly system wide open. That is what they wanted to stop.

          Whatever we might think of him, KDC is an innovator and internet genius — they have to try and stop him to preserve their own mega-money-making monoliths. KDC has them frightened as he threatens the basis of their industry. And poor old little five-eyed waihopai-contaminated NZ has been played as a complete patsy in the whole affair because Key wants to so badly to please his masters in the USA. Let’s remember Key worked for the Federal Reserve in Texas.

          Gonna make a great movie one day !!

          Someone asked before about why Key was meeting with Warners execs ? See my next post.

          • yeshe 16.2.2.2.1

            This written by a senior journalist of respected Hollywood Reporter … and has details to make us cringe from the title onward. And Helen Kelly is treated fairly, displaying her integrity for all to see, quite unlike how she was portrayed in our local media.

            The New Zealand Hobbit Crisis:

            How Warner Bros. Bent a Government to Its Will and Crushed an Attempt to Unionize The Hobbit by Jonathan Handel ….

            “All was not well in Middle-earth . . . After the third Lord of the Rings movie premiered in 2003, fans of the series eagerly anticipated production and release of its prequel, The Hobbit. It turned out they had a while to wait, as a series of troubles delayed production for years. Then, in September 2010, when almost everything seemed resolved, U.S. and international actors unions issued a public alert advising their members “not to accept work on this non-union production.” Warner Bros. threatened to rip the troubled production from the country and events quickly spiraled out of control. New Zealand plunged into crisis. Saving the Hobbit was do or die for the local film industry, and the government scrambled to avoid disaster. Protests and rallies erupted and the island nation’s currency fell on the possibility of losing the half-billion dollar project. Director Peter Jackson vowed to “fight like hell” to keep the shoot in New Zealand. But then studio executives flew in from Los Angeles like colonial masters ready to bring down the hammer. What happened next was almost unbelievable – and proved, if nothing else, that not all Hollywood drama is on the screen. This short book (70 pp. plus bibliography, etc.) tells the tale.”

            will cost you about $5 on Kindle .. but you need a very strong stomach.

            • Tracey 16.2.2.2.1.1

              thanks for this.

            • yeshe 16.2.2.2.1.2

              and this Hobbit affair is 100% NOT separate from everything that has emerged today .. “what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive”.

              I must re-read it in light of today’s new in fo and stories .. I recall there was a mention in the book of one of the execs being close friends with Key .. we discussed it a little here on TS .. it was fresh info. Let;s play jigsaw puzzles.

            • yeshe 16.2.2.2.1.3

              and this Hobbit affair is 100% NOT separate from everything that has emerged today .. “what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive : …. enjoy your holiday shonkey … not many more to come …

              This is the quote I mentioned about Key’s ‘friend’

              ‘Key said he was encouraged that the studio had sent a “fairly heavy duty team” to meet with him, including the president of New Line Cinema, the company’s chief legal counsel and a senior executive from Warner Bros. whom Key said he knew “quite well”. ‘

              Handel, Jonathan (2012-11-21). The New Zealand Hobbit Crisis (Kindle)

  17. yeshe 17

    just now on TV3 news .. KDC saying he will disclose all at an Auckland Town Hall meeting on Sept 15 .. he says it’s hard evidence that Key knew about him before he says he did.

    Five days before the election.

    I believe him; just hope he has the best security he can buy.

    • Anne 17.1

      The best security is to tell everybody in advance. Then if anything happens to you… “everybody” is going to smell a very big rat. And the consequences for the perpetrators will be huge.

      • Colonial Viper 17.1.1

        And in the event of your untimely passing have the servers at MEGA plus a few spare ones around the ‘net download a copy of your deposition on to every hard drive it is connected to.

        Also follow the example of the likes of Jacob Appelbaum and Bill Binney – declare publicly that you are not contemplating suicide in any way shape or form and that it was murder.

  18. Sable 18

    Maybe Dotcom could do a Julian Assange and hide out at a foreign embassy. He can be sure he will get no protection from foreign interests from either this National government or Labour for that matter.

    Should have taken up PR/citizenship in Russia, France or Israel not this banana republic….

  19. deep throat 19

    this whole set of affairs is almost completely beyond any rational comprehension.
    sort of joycean if you get my drift.

  20. Graham 20

    If he had a smokeing gun he would use it now
    The idea that he will release it 5 days from the election indercates to me that it is damp squid like today
    Only conspairy nuts will believe it and they won’t vote national anyway
    Here’s a question for kdc which no one asks why didn’t he think the evil Jewish movie industry combined with the FBI would take his acting as a wharehouse for stolen goods seriously
    If he had been smart live in a country without an exderiction treart

    • karol 20.1

      Yes. I’m not convinced KDC will produce anything very significant on Sep 15. But it will make Key sweat wondering.

      • McFlock 20.1.1

        at the very least it’ll take headline time from the tories, just before the election

    • Colonial Viper 20.2

      The idea that he will release it 5 days from the election indercates to me that it is damp squid like today
      Only conspairy nuts will believe it and they won’t vote national anyway

      Oh shit Graham, like the “nuts” who reckoned that the entire KDC residency approval/FBI raid/Hollywood deal was a massive conspiracy backed by National Ministers and which has turned out to be pretty much the case?

      TL/DR: 2013/2014 is when tin foil hat wearers turn out predictive all along.

  21. Clemgeopin 21

    i just saw this funny picture on the TV3 news message board. Enjoy!

    http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1156/9781/original.jpg

  22. Graham 22

    It’s been mentioned before about keys job as a currency trader
    Now wether you love him or more as in most cases here
    Hate him
    It’s a job where you asses the risks and rewards and make major cals each day
    I don’t think john key will loose 1 drop of sweat thinking about mr dotcom

  23. Graham 23

    Dysgraphic
    Look it up
    Care to abuse cripples why you are at it

    • One Anonymous Bloke 23.1

      Just drawing attention to the yawning gulf between your words and his, and wondering if you’ve noticed it yet.

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