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NRT: Two ideas to get rid of electorate deals

Written By: - Date published: 7:41 am, February 21st, 2017 - 15 comments
Categories: elections, Politics - Tags: ,

15 comments on “NRT: Two ideas to get rid of electorate deals”

  1. Carolyn_nth 1

    I agree with bith suggestions: removing 5% threshold, and preferential voting in electorate seats.

    Though I wonder if preferential voting, plus party vote, would increase the complexity of voting, and thus put some people off – as possibly happens with local council elections.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.1

      Though I wonder if preferential voting, plus party vote, would increase the complexity of voting, and thus put some people off – as possibly happens with local council elections.

      People really aren’t that simple minded you know. In fact, it sounds like BS made up by the intelligentsia as an excuse not to change the system for the better.

      What happens with local elections is:
      1. It’s a postal vote and so, IMO, there’s no urgency to it and thus people forget until too late
      2. People don’t think that it makes any difference

      • Carolyn_nth 1.1.1

        People do look at Auckland forms and not know who everybody is and how to select people for local boards, health authorities, etc – it is a lot.

        The media focuses on election of Mayor, but the rest gets little coverage.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1

          Which tells me that we need better communication. IMO, that’s why we ended up with political parties. It’s simply easier to tell people who and what a party is rather than trying to describe all of the individuals in the party.

          Local politicians are holding on to this delusion of being independent and it’s actually making elections harder.

          Of course, to me, this says that we should all be voting on policies rather than voting for people to represent us.

          • DoublePlusGood 1.1.1.1.1

            Also, for electorates in general elections, it isn’t going to be “Rank these 20 people you’ve never heard of for 7 positions on the local DHB, from vague blurbs that tell you nothing useful about the candidate’s policies or politics”, so should be way easier.

  2. saveNZ 2

    Good post, good ideas to think about!

    Although with under the 5% you might have to be careful that people did not start a party as they were lobbying something to put through. Or just got some money and thought they would add to it, by starting a party and pushing their ideas through on economics or religion or commercial interests.

    • RJL 2.1

      Not sure what the problem is you are getting at here, with lobbyists and “people starting a party and pushing their ideas through…”.

      You seem to be describing “single-issue” parties (e.g. The Cannabis Party, or Ban 1080 Party, or Internet Party).

      There doesn’t any drama with such parties; it doesn’t really matter what the motive is in forming them.

      Even without the 5% threshold, a single issue party will still need to get around 0.8% to get an MP, and if that many people vote for the party, then they should get representation.

      • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1

        You seem to be describing “single-issue” parties (e.g. The Cannabis Party, or Ban 1080 Party, or Internet Party).

        The Internet Party isn’t a single issue party. It doesn’t have the policy depth of Labour or the Greens but that’s more due to its short time. It certainly has multiple policies across multiple fields.

        It probably does have greater policy depth than National but a child playing in the sand has more policy depth than National.

      • saveNZ 2.1.2

        I’m more concerned about groups like the Business Roundtable putting up candidates and having the money to get them through the threshold.

        Then like ACT and United Future, use their votes to prop up a government and have their politicians on the political teat – we already have that problem with the aforementioned!

        And as you say yourself, would we want someone who just has one idea on the parliamentary staff who get through because they are the voice of a popular movement like Cannabis reform or banning 1080 but have few other ideas?

        • Draco T Bastard 2.1.2.1

          Then like ACT and United Future, use their votes to prop up a government and have their politicians on the political teat – we already have that problem with the aforementioned!

          With the changes specified in the post neither ACT nor Dunne would be in parliament today.

          Neither of them got enough party votes to get a seat that way and preferential voting in the electorate would ensure that the most preferred candidate got in.

        • RJL 2.1.2.2

          At least they’ve got one idea!

          If they get the votes (i.e. about 0.8% of the electorate) then it doesn’t seem a problem. It’s what we (the electorate) voted for. At least, the electorate knows the single issue party’s position on one thing. The position of mainstream parties on anything is often quite opaque / surprising to the voter.

          If a single issue party causes problems and / or don’t appear to attempt to resolve their single issue, then they won’t get voted back in.

        • Incognito 2.1.2.3

          I thought the Business Roundtable had merged into the New Zealand Institute!?

          • saveNZ 2.1.2.3.1

            Yes you are right,.

            That’s the other issue for the modern age, organisations and corporations keep changing their names to fool people as they catch on to the organisations/organisations true intentions!

  3. roy cartland 3

    Anyone wondering should watch Borgen – I learnt a lot about multi-party systems from that show. Upshot – they can work, and not only that, they can work well, and are more representative. More frequent elections of course, so that means getting people interested and STAYING interested.

  4. greywarshark 4

    Surely every voting option is open to gaming. That’s the human way. Pointing out one apparent fault and therefore changing to another is lacking in logic. Nothing can be perfect for long, somebody will muck it up slightly. I can live with parties having to talk about common aims when absolutely forced to work together. In the main isn’t that of benefit to we citizens? Sorry if your blood is too pure and noble for you to have to share the same thread with me.

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