anyone not deeply concerned about this needs to take a good hard look at themselves.
you have it from our Minister of Justice. If you are a parent of a 12 year old who identifies as a member of the opposite sex, and as a parent you say no to your child taking puberty blockers (that countries such as the UK and Finland no longer allow and for which there is no good evidence for their efficacy), then it would be seen to be attempting conversion therapy and said parent could be dragged through the legal process and face five years in jail.
who in earth in the right mind thinks this is ok? Labour has been completely captured by gender ideology and have completely lost it.
I will be actively campaigning to see them voted out
Its absolute insantiy, its lucky the Nats are a shamble because if stuff like this starts getting traction alongside hate speech legislation the the tide will turn against the govt very quickly… fuck lightbulbs and showerheads became a flashpoint for Helen Clarke this will be much much worse.
Is it all the same to a Labour Voter? Your child is comparable to a shower head or maybe an EV?
Funny though, that what people fear under national they wholeheartedly agree with under labour. So its not a question of 'better' its a question of unquestioning loyalty and as always in these cases the most vulnerable will pay the bill.
In this case, kids that may wake up in the future, with their reproductive organs destroyed in the name of a bullshit gender ID.
As for the lightbulbs and showerheads, ask yourself if you will be rich enough in the future to have enough money to pay for the electricity and the water use?
well, i voted for Helen Clark that last election that she lost to John Key. I would have loved to vote for Jeaneatte Fitzsimmons, but all that is history.
To compare the potential of long lasting physical damage to people because as pre- teens they wanted to be the opposite sex for waht ever reasons shows to me that some people have lost what it means to be human imo.
Maybe the governments decision to mutilate the children of this country in the name of Gender ID is cheaper then to actually tackle sexual harrasment /rape /physical violence against girls and women, and it must be certainly cheaper tehn actually providing mental health support to those who need and want it.
The issue of parents facing five years in prison for telling their kids they are not getting puberty blockers is the what I posted about.
Bringing in light bulbs and showerheads is just a deflection technique and has no relevance to the conversion therapy bill .
Muttonbird either have the guts to say you don;t think there is a problem with parents who say no to their 12 year old taking puberty blockers facing a five year prison sentence or admit that things are going horribly wrong.
My point was that voters dont like govts telling them how to live and the certainly wont like being told how to raise their children and being potentially criminalized for it.
To be clear im completely against the proposed as I am hate speech legislation
ok Muttonbird, I take your point. I think you then added "yet here we are all using light bulbs and showerheads".
I interpreted this as meaning in 15 years time no one with be bothered about kids on puberty blockers. My apologies if that is not what you meant at all
I don't imagine parents are going to go to prison for blocking blockers.
What Faafoi should have said to 1ZB was that he hoped parents and children would discuss all options available with qualified medical and psychological experts and find out what's best for their family.
1ZB’s gotcha, shock-jock broadcasting does not help inform the public well on sensitive subjects.
I think they are disgraceful myself but aggressive, fake-news reporting seems to be the favoured model as media outlets vie for the ears of cashed up conservative wankers.
Depends on whom you ask. I think some people would argue that those nine long years were the golden years of and for the National Party. It was only because the Election was ‘stolen’ from them that they didn’t get a fourth term, it was that close.
Efficacy at what; Anker? The evidence is certainly conclusive that GnRHa are efficacious in the role of blocking the onset of puberty. Maybe you mean; effective in creating positive health outcomes for the patients? But even that isn't very controversial, though at least less clearcut:
Gonadotrophin-releasing hormones have been used to delay puberty since the 1980s for central precocious puberty. These reversible treatments can also be used in adolescents who experience gender dysphoria to prevent development of secondary sex characteristics and provide time up until 16 years of age for the individual and the family to explore gender identity, access psychosocial supports, develop coping skills, and further define appropriate treatment goals. If pubertal suppression treatment is suspended, then endogenous puberty will resume.
If dysphoria is too difficult a topic, lets shift over to precocious puberty. Whatever the opinions on Trans use of puberty blockers, can we at least agree that pre-teens are really not mature enough to go through puberty, and that it's good to have medicine to delay that?
Youngest mother on record was Lina Medina at 5years age (father was never identified – pre Franklin, so no DNA tests); apparently she's still alive somewhere in Peru. She would likely have appreciated access to puberty blockers!
Forget now…………….NICE have done a thorough review of these medications. There findings show no or very low evidence of benefit
NICE (National Institute for Clinical and Health Care Excellence ) review most medical treatments. they are independent and scrupulous in their findings. Their finding trump any other research you might quote. In this case there is no debate about this.
Moving along now Forget Now are you ok with parents of a 12 year old who say no to puberty blockers facing a prison sentence for five years?
I am not hear to debate the issue of precocious puberty. I would hope that clinicians consult with parents about medical options and that the parents have a very large say in that, if not the only say and don’t face five years in jail for saying no.
What's the efficacy in using puberty blockers to treat gender dysphoria?
How many kids on PBs progress to cross sex hormones?
What risks are there from both classes of drugs?
Why aren't the voices of detrans people being heard in this debate, especially detrans lesbians?
ie young women who transitioned to trans men, then detransitioned for a range of reasons including it made no difference to their GD or made it worse.
Young lesbians who found an easier pathway to being a trans man than an out lesbian, but who later realised that radical surgery and hormones came at a huge cost that wasn't warranted in their case.
Young people in a huge bloody mess whose only option was gender identity affirmation from clinicians, and who weren't offered or supported into looking at other mental health issues or social pressures, and who weren't offered other treatments eg counselling.
The reason for little or no trans or ex trans comments on this list is, I would posit, pretty easy to discern from recent post. What posts you ask, the ones where lots of people on this list made statements of support for trans people at the same time as declaring they are just (in the case of MTF) Men in dresses, I'm sure you can find them fairly easily, there are lots of them, some of them attacking Stephanie Rodgers for example. I'm only commenting because I've had enough of being demonised by people who post things like 'NICE' research trumps any other you could come up with. O course it does if it agrees with y ur view of the world and how it works. I will at least be up front here, I am a 64 year old Trans woman and I don't agree with self identifying. I also think that there is a lot of transphobia in some of those posts. Don't think I'm saying people hate trans folk, I'm not because that's not what transphobia is. The word says it, it is a phobia, a fear of trans people, though why anyone would fear me is pretty inconceivable. You have come up with Women Space, good on you, I'm not asking for transpace because I suspect I might be the only, or one of the very few trans people who read the Standard on a regular basis so what would be the point, but I certainly wouldn't feel welcome in the women's space, and believe me I don't actually care what anyone thinks of me personally but there are some pretty broad brush strokes being made in the posts I have referred to. Anyway, my 2 cents worth.
Nobody has been attacking Stephanie Rodgers. Lots of people criticised her argument which (if you read the recent post) declared the obvious fact that biological males gain significant long lasting sporting performance advantages during puberty, to be irrelevant. She is however welcome to make a serious argument at any time, just this early cut was perceived as feeble (a bunch of slogans which are clearly contradicted by the evidence).
I reckon the next five years in NZ will go something like this:
A government, court, sporting body, or any damned institution anywhere will make a reasoned judgement on the issue, mostly with a genuine intention of making the best call with the best available knowledge at the time, based on their organisational objectives.
A bunch of people will go "but why didn't they listen to us? This is a tragic day for our community and justice".
A bunch of other people will praise the organisation's "brave" and "fair" decision that was made "rationally, on the available facts".
As to which group is which, things will probably keep going the way they're going for the next few years, but the conservative backlash will be ugly.
Well I agree McFlock, I think the backlash will be ugly.
I don't see why some poor parent should be dragged through the court system or threatened with it, facing 5 years in jail, just because they tell their 12 year old kid they can't go on puberty blockers.
Or, to rephrase the information in your linked article in comment 1, even if the police and the attorney general seperately come to the conclusion that there is sufficent evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the parents' medical choices for their child are demonstrably causing harm with the intention of trying to change the child's sexual orientation or gender identity, you don't believe that such an instance should be put to the court.
A conversion practice had to be directed towards someone because of their sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression, and performed with the intention of changing or suppressing their sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression.
Then harm had to be shown for a child, or serious harm for an adult.
If police decided there was a case, the Attorney-General would then need to sign it off before charges could be laid.
But I think it should be ruled out pronto! It will damage the party hugely and if they don't rule it out, they will be dead meat when the first test case comes to light.
By the way a father went to jail for six months in Canada for refusing to accept hibs daughters gender identity and objected to the treatment proposed. I think from memory she was 14 years old. Will find the link if you like.
Reply to McFlock…….Of course it shouldn't go to court…….It should be dealt with as all other such issues, through Orangi Tamariki. Whatever their faults, that is their job. That is the sort of thing they deal with.
The legislation will intimidate parents for making what they consider is the best decision for their child.
I wasn't going to comment on Laurel Hubbard today, but I am wondering if anyone can tell me, if there is no difference or very little between female and males in sport, how come Laurel, didn't get very far when she competed as a man?
Well Ad not everyone agrees with Laureen Hubbard competing in the women's section. I have posted it many times, but biological males have a significant advantage over biological women in sports. Tracey also posted a separate link on Women's Day.
Ad your comments are another example of a man being happy to celebrate handing over a women's category, space to a biological male. Thanks but no thanks.
If you followed the issue in the US there are multiple examples of transwomen, biological males winning against females, taking their awards. Nothing to celebrate there.
transwomen more than welcome to compete in what should be the open category.
Thanks Joanne. I don't disagree that TS isn't very conducive to trans people talking openly about trans politics. But then I'm a feminist who rarely feels it's worth it or safe to write feminist posts on TS. Few people seem bothered enough to do anything about that either.
"O course it does if it agrees with y ur view of the world and how it works."
The irony there is that if No Debate hadn't happened, we'd have worked through most of the issues by now. The great thing about TS is that if someone puts up a piece of R/S, others can pull it apart. On *any side of a debate. The shit thing about TS, is that it takes time to do this, and the most marginalised people often don't have the time or safety or inclination to use up their energy that way. But at least there is an opportunity here to make progress.
I also believe that there is transphobia on the left and within GC/GCF movements, both antipathy towards trans women and the subconscious or casual transphobia that exists in the same way that sexism or racism does on the left. Again No Debate is a massive problem here that is actively hindering resolving this.
One thing that would help if is people saying there is transphobia in a comment or post they also quoted the specific bit and explained *how it is transphobic.
I think calling trans women 'men in dresses' is demeaning, and usually speaks to the person being transphobic. It's also an own goal for GCFs because part of the point of breaking down gender role norms is to free people from oppression so that we can wear whatever we want. I key word searched the Women's Day comments and there aren't any comments of that kind there, there are some under the Kathleen Stock post, but to me they're mostly not aimed at TW but at cross dressing men. People are on a learning curve about what trans is, and the definition of trans is so broad now that it's going to take time in society to work through what is fair and just.
I'm sure it looks different to you. All I can offer here is that if people want to address any of these issues, I'll do my best to moderate so that it doesn't get out of hand and so that all sides get a fair hearing.
Thanks Weka, I've been reading TS for over 24 years though I've only commented a handful of times, however I have never felt that I had to speak up on behalf of Trans folk until this GC/GCF business came up. At university in my 40's I was always welcome in the women only spaces and I found hearing how unwelcome I actually was to be quite dispiriting. If anyone is interested in discussing any issue related to trans ness I am happy to share my understandings in relation to my lived experience, but it is only my experience. Other people will will have different experiences than I do so I personally prefer that mine don't get somehow assigned to all trans women.
I think there would be many here who would welcome hearing your views based on lived experience. Myself, I think such stories are crucial to building understanding across difference.
Ok Joanne, I am glad you have posted your point of view
I have to say I don't think I am demonising other's research when I say NICE trumps other research. As I said NICE is an Institute that is thoroughly objective and impatial. They don't really care what the evidence shows them, they just care about being scuperlous about evidence. I think it is fair to say that a lot of the research that has been done is by people who hold a particular position.
I think Stephanie was criticized by one or two commentators on the Women's Day post, but I don't recall her previously commenting on the Standard, although I understand she did.
If isn't that pleasant when people make it personal. Someone on today's Open Mike said about me, words to the effect that "you make yourself look like a deranged obsessive". That was pretty unkind, but I guess he is entitled to that view. I would prefer it if he had of debated the issue. So sometimes people get personal on the Standard. Its unfortunate. I try not to myself, but it would be untrue to say I never have.
I am with you Anker on this one. I know very little on this legislation. However as the father of a 10 year old daughter I heard all I need to hear from the Minister on HDA to confirm this legislation absolutely needs to be opposed.
Take care and if you have energy for it, write to your MP or visit them. Gather up any friends who are also alarmed and take action if you are in the position to do so.
I'm with you and Anker. And after Faafoi's similarly awful performance on the hate speech laws, I'm beginning to wonder if the problem may be both the message and the messenger.
Yip the worlds getting stupider by the day, my kid told me the other day that thier school tried gender fluid toilets at a primary school for fucks sake!!
No surprises they got rid of it because boys took the piss , literally by the sound of it .
Act and national grow in % every poll fucking snap out of it you fools.
Well yes we doing seem to proposing to criminalize more things so investing in prisons seems a safe bet… and I read today the comancheros have their own wing in Mt Eden remand prison… wtf
Yes National want to lock up the gangas, Labour want to lock up parents who refuse their kids puberty blockers, or therapists who attempt to explore issues with clients (which is what therapists do) get mis-interpreted as conversion therapy. Or worse still a vexacious clients lies about what was actually said.
Therapists are regulated by Professionals Bodies. They should be left to do their job of evaluating complaints about therapists. There is also the Health and Disability Commisioner. I have only heard of one therapist in this country practicing conversion therapy. FFS what overkill.
If I was a therapist I would be looking not to working with any clients who I felt under threat of a prison sentence. Lets face it there is a desparate shortage of therapists. Why would you want to endanger yourself?
Interesting comment. A few months back I was nattering away one night with the guy who heads up our site security/service group. Turns out like most mature people he's started out in a quite different field (that I won't detail for privacy reasons) – but it was very much dealing with people's personal issues and counselling.
I asked why he gave it away as it was clear he had invested decades of his life into it and I'd judge he was very good at it. His answer was partly the predictable burnout that most of these people experience – and exactly what you describe, the increasing risk of vexacious clients. He went on to say that in many ways he missed the work – the burnout you could recover from – but the professional hazard had only become worse with time.
Yes National want to lock up the gangas, Labour want to lock up parents who refuse their kids puberty blockers, or therapists who attempt to explore issues with clients (which is what therapists do) get mis-interpreted as conversion therapy. Or worse still a vexacious clients lies about what was actually said.
Therapists are regulated by Professionals Bodies. They should be left to do their job of evaluating complaints about therapists. There is also the Health and Disability Commisioner. I have only heard of one therapist in this country practicing conversion therapy. FFS what overkill.
If I was a therapist I would be looking not to working with any clients who I felt under threat of a prison sentence. Lets face it there is a desparate shortage of therapists. Why would you want to endanger yourself?
Nah, no real need. It's a fairly short-term issue. At most it will just be two or three years before pretty much everyone has either been vaccinated, or got the disease and died or survived the disease with whatever long term problems they get from the experience.
Although maybe if the Nats were in power, they'd go for it. Like you say, it's a great potential business opportunity.
Who cares what National would do when it is Labour running the show.
And i personally don't believe that this virus is going anywhere soon. And anyone who does, must really ask themselves why they think it will.
I totally expect prisons for the 'uneductated' and the ‘unwilling’ and ‘unvaccinated’ and ‘unco-operative’ and i would not put it past Labour to fill those prisons. After all, the economy must be going strong.
But then, some truly believe that Labour is not the other side of the same coin. 🙂
What the Nats might do becomes a relevant question in 2023. Particularly if public opinion swings against Labour's handling of pandemic.
Either by being perceived to be unreasonably restrictive (ignore the rantings of the Husks and his ilk, they're not the swing voters), or by being perceived to have opened up too early by being insufficiently mindful of new information (like I happen to think they were by opening up to Oz when Delta was starting to happen and neither Oz nor we had any kind of wide vaccine coverage).
I think public opinion will swing against parents facing five years in jail for telling their kids they can't use puberty blockers. Wait for the back lash.
I don't see any good options as to who governs NZ, but one thing is for sure. I have lost all respect for Labour.
Y'know, you've probably made your views clear on other threads today. Derailing this thread to your hobbyhorse as well just makes you look like an unhinged single-issue obsessive.
Y'know Andre, it is Open Mike, so my understanding is that any topic here is o.k. And you know I was the first to comment today, so I have know idea about what you mean about de-railing this thread.
"makes you look like an unhinged single-issue obsessive"……thank you for your very gracious response to me. (sarc)……….I most often find on this issue, when people have no decent arguements, that start trying to label me i.e. they play the woman not the ball.
I am not aware of any rules on the Standard that say you must post or comment on more than one issue. I am sure the moderators would have pulled me up if this was the case.
Y'know I have been pondering this some more Andre. Have you just gaslighted me? You know that thing people do where they try to make out to others that a person is crazy ("unhinged" or "obsessive") to try and disempower and discredit them.
What do you think???????
Whatever, please don't imply anything about my mental health again please.
And btw, a number of people on this thread and this site support what I am saying.
Parents can be imprisoned for many acts against their children here. In the USA children can divorce their parents, and there have been cases where children know their gender long before 12 years of age.
Being a parent does not make one infallible, just emotionally invested. The important person in this equation is the child. Rigid thinking won't help, and outside experts as in psychology, may assist with what may be a family trauma.
This government has gone with the science in their practice, and will continue to do so.
Last time it was vaccinating girls against human pap virus which some thought parents would refuse believing it would encourage loose behaviour. Now vaccination is clearly accepted.
Ministers have advisers, and do sometimes get ahead of public opinion. It is a balance of rights in a situation where the child is powerless, a hard one.
Discrepancies in the evaluation of the safety of the human papillomavirus vaccine
Despite being more than ten years since its introduction, global acceptance to the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine is still low. The immunogenetic background of the host, and HPV antigen recognition, are important in natural HPV infection, and should be taken into account in the understanding of adverse autoimmune reactions by the HPV vaccine in certain groups. There is no doubt of the benefit of vaccines in the reduction of the incidence of infectious diseases, and in the case of HPV, the prevention of persistent infection that would lead to cervical cancer. Side-effects, however, should be closely monitored and reported without any bias, to ensure that the benefits of vaccines outweigh the risks of adverse reactions. In this article we bring the attention on certain adverse effects of the vaccine against HPV that have not been well studied as they are not well defined. We also compare the different approaches on HPV vaccine policies regarding its adverse reactions in countries like Japan and Colombia, vs. the recommendations issued by the WHO.
It is way too easy to write off those with concerns about a vaccine to prevent cervical cancer as being religious fundamentalists. Too easy, and lazy, and in too many instances harmful to too many young women.
That small and seemingly insignificant percentage of vaccine recipients who suffer severe and long term adverse reactions are routinely dismissed and ignored.
This refusal to acknowledge that some vaccines do harm some people does more to fuel vaccine hesitancy than any anti -vax promoter.
That small and seemingly insignificant percentage of vaccine recipients who suffer severe and long term adverse reactions are routinely dismissed and ignored.
And the consequence of this is an undermining of trust. One of the defining characteristics of the entire public health apparatus during this pandemic has been it's treating of the public as children – who can be routinely underinformed or misdirected 'for their own good'. You might get away with this a few times, but eventually enough people see what's going on.
And face it – vaccines (indeed almost all medical interventions for that matter) depend on trust. None of us, not even medical professionals themselves, can be across the details of everything. So when we see public health systems behaving in ways that seem untrustworthy, or corrupt even, it becomes normal and natural to doubt, question and seek better answers.
To be fair it's my view that public health systems were handicapped from the start in that they believed that SARS-COVID-2 was just another zoonotic virus that could be safely handled with their existing toolkit. I think it's turned out this was only partly true and globally the response has been deeply politicised and fumbled from the start. And in particular the window of opportunity to drive this virus to extinction last year has passed – I was optimistic then, I'm not now.
Instead we've allowed this virus to do what it was created to do, adapt to evolutionary selection pressure and the result is at this point in time – Delta. And slowly public health authorities are waking up to how this has changed the game. To add to the challenge there are so many complex parts to this pandemic, so many contradictory aspects that I doubt anyone really understands what is going on and what's likely to happen next.
We're truly in uncharted waters now and it would be better if we cut down the volume of the bickering and paid more attention to what was happening.
And sometimes fire do indeed break out. It's a question of intent.
Last year I was getting shouted down when I suggested that we needed to be more careful about the potential for variants to arise. It was almost as if people wanted to believe that the principles of evolutionary biology didn't apply to this virus. Yet here we are with Delta and it won't be the last.
Just to be clear I believe that on the preponderance of circumstantial evidence (> 95% probability) that SARS-COVID-2 is a lab escape from GoF research conducted in Wuhan. Equally there remains a small but non-zero chance it has a true zoonotic origin. There is no proof for either hypothesis at present – and labelling either as 'misinformation' isn't justified.
And that we can also recognise that a lot of people have strong professional and political motives to ensure that no conclusive evidence for the lab leak hypothesis ever sees the light of day.
The bottom line. Explains the furious back-peddling from it's a hoax, vaccination is a plot panders to an audience of believers and drags in the advertisers, to listen up, it's real and vaccines work because the lawyers see legal consequences on the horizon.
This refusal to acknowledge that some vaccines do harm some people does more to fuel vaccine hesitancy than any anti -vax promoter.
Funny thing is I've never read or heard of a reputable vaccinologist (you know, someone who is a vaccine expert) who has refused to acknowledge, or "routinely dismissed and ignored" evidence that vaccines have adverse (side-)effects. And yet, if I'm interpreting your comment correctly, these 'dismissive vaccinologists' are thick on the ground.
There is no doubt of the benefit of vaccines in the reduction of the incidence of infectious diseases, and in the case of HPV, the prevention of persistent infection that would lead to cervical cancer.
Imho the vast majority of vaccinologists believe that, on balance, vaccines are a net benefit to human health. The Covid-19 vaccines, in particular the more effective ones, are also of net benefit to human health – one only has to look at how lethality of Covid-19 infections has declined dramatically in countries with moderate-to-high vaccine coverage. It really is that obvious, and that simple. Of course improved medical treatment(s), and less pressure on health systems, helps.
And, since you're dishing out the "too easy, and lazy" pejoratives, and insinuating that the global medical establishment is ignoring, dismissing and refusing to acknowledge the side-effects of COVID-19 vaccines, I've got another pejorative for you: 'alarmist'.
A review of the HPV vaccine safety by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) found no difference in side effects between vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals (Gee et al. 2016). In fact the CDC's Vaccine Adverse Event reporting System (VAERS) states that the HPV vaccine is very safe, and has not found any unexpected patterns in maternal or fetal outcomes (Moro et al. 2015).
These conclusions, however, are based on records that should be interpreted with care, especially when assessing cases with non-specific diagnosis, for which there is not a clear consensus on the diagnostic criteria (Goldenberg 2009) (Fig. 1).
Despite these pronouncements on the safety of HPV vaccine, regions in Colombia have reported a disproportionate number of neuropathic pain cases (with respect to the expected reactions declared by the pharmaceutical company producing Gardasil) (Sánchez-Gómez and Hernández-Flórez 2014).
It is important to note that the occurrence of demyelinating disease after vaccination, despite being low, is not negligible. This type of complication has been reported for multiple vaccines such as influenza, HPV, hepatitis A or B, rabies, measles, rubella, yellow fever, anthrax, meningococcus, and tetanus.
And so on until the end of the paper.
Perhaps we can agree that the vaccinologists of global note, or at least the greatest reach, are found at the CDC? The same CDC that effectively dismissed any link between the HPV vaccine and reported side effects.
As for 'perjoratives'…unintended, I assure you. PB wrote '…loose behaviour.' which triggered the recollection from way back when Gardasil was first rolled out. There was some that were concerned that this vaccine would give license to promiscuity, and some of that was from religious communities. It didn't help that it was in predominantly Catholic Latin America that there were (for reasons the linked to paper suggests requires investigation) a significant number of adverse effects. Add to that reports of a cluster of vaccine damaged girls from Ireland (which were considered 'worth it' in terms of the protection afforded the rest of the vaccine recipients) and the stage was well set for the narrative to emerge that HPV vaccine opposition emanated from the religious conservatives.
Very unfortunate, because it allowed the real reason for Gardasil hesitancy….the large numbers of girls significantly affected…to be sidelined.
And sidelined they were…as the paper I linked to suggests.
I appreciate that you want to help Rosemary. It boils down to who and what you trust. I trust expert scientific consensuses. They're not always right (who/what is), but (in my experience) they're right more often than not (including on vaccines), and these consensuses can evolve..
I believe it's more than just dumb luck that my trust in expert (evidence-based) consensuses has often been rewarded, and the placebo effect probably doesn't hurt either.
Perhaps we can agree that the vaccinologists of global note, or at least the greatest reach, are found at the CDC?
We can agree that reputable vaccinologists work at the CDC, and that they contribute to various national and international consensuses on the efficacy and safety of vaccines.
It is way too easy to write off those with concerns about a vaccine to prevent cervical cancer as being religious fundamentalists. Too easy, and lazy, and in too many instances harmful to too many young women.
It's also seems way too easy to write-off vaccinologists as 'lazy'; maybe they, like you, also want to minimise (needless) harm and death in their communities, albeit in their own lazy ways.
Ireland has one of the highest cervical-cancer rates in western Europe, with 90 deaths a year, but uptake of the [HPV] vaccine has plummeted following opposition from a number of groups.
Cervical cancer statistics
Cervical cancer is the fourth most commonly occurring cancer in women and the eighth most commonly occurring cancer overall. There were over 500,000 new cases in 2018. The top 20 countries with the highest rates of cervical cancer in 2018 are given in the table below.
Estimates of incidence and mortality of cervical cancer in 2018: a worldwide analysis Cervical cancer continues to be a major public health problem affecting middle-aged women, particularly in less-resourced countries. The global scale-up of HPV vaccination and HPV-based screening—including self-sampling—has potential to make cervical cancer a rare disease in the decades to come. Our study could help shape and monitor the initiative to eliminate cervical cancer as a major public health problem.
A few lazy experts in NZ have somehow managed to assemble this well-referenced educational material on the HPV vaccine Gardasil 9.
Here's what they have to say about Gardasil's serious side-effects:
What about serious side effects? One to three people in every million (1-3 in 1,000,000) who are vaccinated with Gardasil 9 have a serious allergic reaction. This is why you are asked to wait after vaccination. The person giving you the vaccine is trained to deal with allergic reactions.
One in every one hundred thousand people (1 in 100,000) who are vaccinated with Gardasil or Gardasil 9 each year develop symptoms of nerve damage such as numbness, weakness and difficulty walking (known as Guillain-Barré Syndrome and acute disseminated encephalomyelitis.)
Guillain-Barré Syndrome and ADE also occur in 1 in every 100,000 people who haven’t been vaccinated. These disorders are usually caused by infections such as influenza which cause the persons own immune system to attack their nerves.
There has been some concern that HPV vaccines can cause Postural Hypotension Tachycardia Syndrome (POTS), Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS) and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS). Medsafe has reviewed the data on these concerns and found that there was no evidence that HPV vaccination caused these issues.
During the clinical studies there were 7 deaths (out of 15,875 people).
One woman committed suicide.
One woman died in a car accident.
One woman died unexpectedly nearly two years after completing vaccination.
One woman with previous ovarian cancer died.
Three women with leukaemia died, one had been diagnosed before being vaccinated and one was diagnosed nearly 4 years after completing vaccination.
These deaths were thoroughly investigated, none of them were caused by the HPV vaccine. They represent the unfortunate circumstances that sometimes occur in teenagers and young adults.
Only 7 deaths (out of 15,875 people)? Surely there must have been more – I smell a rat.
Totally agree Anker. Puberty always has been a period of emotional turbulence and vulnerability. We recognise this with among other things an age of consent, and strong social censuring of age inappropriate relationships where exploitation of immaturity is highly likely.
Exploiting this natural period of sexual volatility – that almost always resolves itself with time – to impose irreversible biological change with powerful puberty blocking drugs is in my view profoundly wicked. Objectively I'd consider this practise potentially more damaging than outright sex abuse.
Traditionally we expected parents to provide a framework of protection in this period – an often difficult and usually thankless task. With the slow undermining of the family as a basic social unit, and the virtual demolition of the role of fatherhood in particular, little of this applies any more. Any parent attempting to constrain the poor choices of their children can expect no support, and now the prospect of a criminal prosecution.
The logical destination of this trend is of course straight out of the dystopian novels – the dismantling of the nuclear family (a dream of the marxists right from the outset) and it's replacement with the apparatus of the state. If this seems a straw man – then consider that the discussion we are currently having on other threads around 'self identifying gender' would have been considered utter lunacy just a decade ago.
I would totally agree if I thought that this is what the legislation was intended to do, or would even rarely do as an unintended consequence. I'm not convinced on either of those points – because it is such a preposterous and unimaginable outcome. We've all seen plenty of alarmist over-reaction to legislation of this sort – from the homosexual law reform bill of the 1980's to the S58 repeal in the 2000's.
Fair enough – the conversation does tend to stray from the relatively narrow topic of the legislation. But on the other hand puberty blockers are a real thing … and again a mere decade ago would have been considered crazy talk.
Although we have an opportunity to learn from these 'unintended consequences' from overseas, we seem to be sleepwalking into passing similar laws without changes.
The post Sabine put up last night is worth a watch if you have the time, to see how badly wriiten laws and lacklustre safeguards can result in institutional harm.
I think the comparison to the Homosexual Reform Bill is a lazy.false equivalence. There are concrete concerns about how the proposals are currently written which does mean they are bigoted or ill-advised.
AB have you listened to what Kris Faafoi said on the link I posted at the top of Open Mike? That seems to be exactly what he is saying. It might not mean five years in jail but it could.
Exactly. This is not some theoretical scaremongering. It is the responsible Minister saying without equivocation it is exactly what could happen … 5 years jail for a parent who intervenes when their child wants to self medicate. He thought this was a perfectly acceptable outcome.
I did – but I'm not convinced Faafoi actually knows or can say either way with any certainty. We have courts. Agreed that puberty blockers are a minefield and it would not surprise me if pharma companies turn out to be inventing medical conditions that just conveniently happen to be ' treatable' by drugs they have sitting on the shelf.
Yes, maybe we can start the internment camps on Rangitoto for all smokers and the slightly overweight next year too… Wouldn't that be lovely [sarc].. 🙄
But I think it should be ruled out pronto! It will damage the party hugely and if they don't rule it out, they will be dead meat when the first test case comes to light.
By the way a father went to jail for six months in Canada for refusing to accept hibs daughters gender identity and objected to the treatment proposed. I think from memory she was 14 years old. Will find the link if you like.
Vaccination by itself is not a full control,physical health interventions still need to be both maintained and increased (say enhanced international travel restrictions eg Sydney).
For sure there won't be a return to anything resembling pre-2020 normal.
But once everyone here that wants vaccination has received it, I for one won't have any appetite for level 3 or level 4 lockdowns to try to regain elimination status. Nor will I have any patience for requiring 2 weeks of managed isolation for all international arrivals including vaccinated citizens and permanent residents.
In general, I've been on the cautious side when it comes to restrictions. I thought opening a travel bubble with Australia was ill-advised and premature. I thought some of the lockdowns were lifted earlier than was wise.
Now consider, if someone as cautious as me won't support ongoing stringent efforts to maintain elimination after the widespread vaccination programme is complete, where will the balance of opinion lie across the rest of New Zealand?
The world had a window of 'elimination' strategy, last year and if the world would have gone into 'lockdown' as a collective it might have worked.
By now, there is no more 'elimination' strategy. There is a mitigating, keeping at bay, hoping to vaccinate many strategy as most if not all the issues that we went into lockdown are still the same.
No bed capacity in hospitals. Not enough ICU beds, if a huge outbreak were to occur i doubt we would have enough ventilators (yeah, we got a 100), not enough Staff -be that nurses, orderlies, cleaners, nurse aids, cooks etc to actually properly staff any of our hospitals in NZ – and the current RSV outbreak showed a light to that failure.
so the very best anyone can hope for atm, is that if you get the delta variant or any other after that that one may survive or better even, does not need to be hospitalised.
And that is what Israel is betting on. They don't care about the infections per se, but the death rate. If only a few die, they have 'won'. Here have a booster shot.
Perhaps Israel is paying a price for trumpeting its fabulous vaccination rate.
Bitten on the bum because Delta has come from the Palestinians that they refused to provide vaccine for, contrary to their international obligation as an occupying power?
It's still the unvaccinated in Israel that are most of the cases. It's only a very few vaccinated but still vulnerable Israelis that are paying a price for the anti-social arsehole anti-vaxers among them.
Despite their lower vaccination rates, Palestinian territories appear to be doing okay. Vaccine hesitancy among Israeli fundamentalists is the problem.
The unvaccinated might be safer in jail from the superspreader vaccinated. Serious enough to force the CDC to change its guidelines.
During the outbreak investigation, researchers learned that the amount of virus in the noses of vaccinated people experiencing a breakthrough infection was the same as in an unvaccinated person — a worrying sign vaccinated people can spread the virus.
"This finding is concerning and was a pivotal discovery leading to CDC’s updated mask recommendation," said CDC Director Rochelle Walensky in a statement.
"This is a very concerning outbreak — pretty much a 'super spreader event,'" said Dr. Carlos Del Rio, executive associate dean and global health expert at the Emory School of Medicine.
again, anyone expecting this 'vaccine' to be a miracle cure also needs to ask themselves why they think that.
Yes, you can catch the flu after a flu shot, yes, you can transmit that flu. But if you have been vaccinated you might not die of it, or get ill enough to warrant staying home or in hosptial.
This is the same. AS for those that don't want the vaccination, don't. But for what its worth, i would make sure i have my last will in order. because not only can you catch it, transmit it, you have a very good chance dying of it. A much larger chance then those that have had the vaccine. So it appears.
What the latest from the CDC is saying is that those smug fully vaccinated free-ranging through the community are as much as, if not more of a risk to those who are not vaccinated. Not vaccinated for whatever reason. Including those who cannot be vaccinated, or should not be vaccinated.
The much anticipated badge of conformity that will be the Covid Vaccine Passport will be simply fluff and window dressing. 'Cos appearances.
my friends in the US that are fully vaccinated 'smugs' free ranging, they don't. They understand the science, and are still masked when indoors, still don't hang out at sturgis, or Lollapallooza etc , don't go unmasked into mega churches for a bit of a pandemic god fix, etc.
The ones that are 'freeranging' are the unvaccinated ones, those that are bathed in the blood of Jesus, or that believe in crystal healing or the microsoft chipperys.
But as i said, don't vaccinate, just keep yourself to yourself, and make sure you have your will in order in case you have a will. Just you know, to cross all your t's and dot your i's. So far the vaccine is not mandatory and you get to freerange unvaccinated to your hearts contend.
bear in mind that i really don't care if or not you vaccinate.
Truly. It is your decision, and as i have stated before in regards to being pro or con, one makes ones decision and ones then lives with it and all the resulting consequences.
If you are in fact now vaccinated against covid, it would raise a lot of questions about your motivations for posting all kinds of vaccine misinformation here with the apparent goal of pushing people towards misinformed refusal of vaccination.
Let's just look at your first contribution to this thread:
The unvaccinated might be safer in jail from the superspreader vaccinated.
That statement implies that vaccinated are more of a threat to the unvaccinated than other unvaccinated. Utter misrepresentation. Vaccinated people are a much lower threat simply because they are much less likely to be infected and infectious. From your CDC link:
Infections in fully vaccinated people (breakthrough infections) happen in only a small proportion of people who are fully vaccinated, even with the Delta variant. Moreover, when these infections occur among vaccinated people, they tend to be mild. However, preliminary evidence suggests that fully vaccinated people who do become infected with the Delta variant can be infectious and can spread the virus to others.
Following the link in that quote we find:
Two studies from the United Kingdom found significantly reduced likelihood of transmission to household contacts from people infected with SARS-CoV-2 who were previously vaccinated for COVID-19.
The piece linked below from Science Based Medicine is specific to covid, but the discussion about common anti-vax propaganda techniques covers several of your common misinformation techniques here on this site.
1 : a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease
Note that it does not have a range of efficacies which something needs to meet before it can be called a vaccine, merely that it is intended to stimulate an immune response. There has never been a vaccine that meets your misinformation incorrect definition, which appears to be an attempt to falsely discredit the Pfizer vaccine.
Even the smallpox vaccine, which successfully eradicated smallpox from this earth, only had about 95% effficacy. But this less than 100.000% efficacy was still enough for communities to achieve herd immunity and eventually end all chains of transmissions.
Yep, the vaccinated can still get it, and they can still spread it.
But the vaccinated are very strongly protected from severe illness, and they are almost completely protected from the virus killing them. So far, I have yet to see reports of long covid happening to the vaccinated.
It's a very striking contrast between the very high risk of death or long-term disability for the unvaccinated, versus the worst case scenario for most of the vaccinated being a minor short term inconvenient unpleasantness like a cold or mild flu.
We haven't made serious mistakes yet. Or maybe we did with allowing people back from Oz while Delta was ramping up, but we just got lucky (so far).
But the whole game changes once we achieve vaccination coverage of all those that want it. When that is achieved, there will be much more risk in being excessively restrictive to those that have done the right thing and get themselves vaccinated.
Emergence of new variants that are much more infectious to the vaccinated being the obvious known unknown in all of this, of course.
So far I have yet to see anything that even hints it might be happening out in the field.
The potential antibody dependent enhancement problem with Dengvaxia was known and warned about before it was rolled out in the Philippines. The problems found could have been prevented by antibody testing the recipients before administering the vaccine, but the cost of that would have been quite a burden for a poor country like the Philippines. If you want more detail, this is a good piece:
In the development of the covid vaccines, the possibility of antibody dependent enhancement was carefully considered. But it's fairly uncommon for diseases to behave that way, and there's been no evidence of it in other coronaviruses.
Leaked chat logs reveal how the former lead psychologist for Cambridge Analytica has been working behind the scenes with a notorious anti-vaccine group in the U.K.
The chat records, provided to the Daily Dot by the activist collective DDoSecrets, detail efforts by HART (Health Advisory and Recovery Team), a self-described “group of highly qualified UK doctors, scientists, economists, psychologists and other academic experts,” to influence politicians on issues related to COVID-19.
Can we infer from your post, that our failure to deal with the measles outbreak and the subsequent outbreak in Samoa make our Director general of Health and govt baby killers?
More a case of we didn't act appropriately for reasons unknown, especially given measles is highly infectious and the consequences are well known. But the result as we know was multiple deaths.
I flew to the States during the outbreak the terminal had multiple notices warning of a measles outbreak in New Zealand and if you are unvaccinated and feeling unwell to report to the nearest official immediately.
There was nothing about in Auckland international which was a massive fail.
I'm still struggling to get my head around how a (presumably) trained nurse could do something so obviously disastrous as mixing (expired) muscle relaxant anaesthetic into the vaccine, rather than water.
I mean, sure the water was probably in a labelled bottle so might have been mistaken for a medication of some kind, needing to be sterile and all. If the water containers looked like medicine containers, that points to a systems failure with an obvious, easy, and cheap fix. Such as sterile water for dilutions is always in blue containers. But still …
The proprietor of my local beer shop sat down for lunch with Mrs and a guest and they all drank a caustic cleaning solution mistakenly served up as a cold drink. Mrs and the guest got a whiff and were hospitalised, badly burnt, but they survived. Poor old Bob had lost his sense of smell years ago and necked his. He never made it out of the back of the shop.
Apparently it had always been kept in the right place in an appropriate container, until the day it was transferred to a fizz bottle and ended up in the chiller…
"Did our Director general of Health and govt actively undermine public health policy?"
Personally, I think the whole throwing blame around is massively counter productive to personal health policy.
If we're talking about building good systems, NZ did fail in some of its obligation to protect Samoa from our own measles outbreaks. If the same situation were to arise now, would closing the borders seem more acceptable?
If the same situation were to arise now, would closing the borders seem more acceptable?
Protecting the health of Samoa's people is much more the responsibility of Samoa's government than ours.
If the same situation were to arise today, I would expect the Samoan government to be much more active about trying to lift their vaccination rate back up and closing their borders to travelers coming from countries experiencing an outbreak. But personally, if somewhere I wanted to visit was willing to accept me, but our government prevented that because of a small disease outbreak in s small somewhat closed community within New Zealand, I would be absolutely outraged.
Just like in our current situation we have severely restricted movements across our inbound border – to protect our people. Nobody anywhere else in the world is trying to stop people leaving to travel to NZ to protect NZ from an outbreak. At least not that I know of.
The general belief is that we, individually and collectively, learn from past experiences to better predict consequences (outcomes and impacts). Taiwan was arguable better prepared than most because of past pandemics. NZ may have learned from the measles experiences.
Public health policy is more than just a bunch of direct ‘technocratic’ measures; it also includes research as well as education through communication and giving clear, consistent, and carefully explained guidelines and instructions. However, it never operates in isolation, least of all when things become heavily politicised and polarised.
I was thinking how as the outbreak in Samoa was starting it wasn’t even a consideration to close borders. Covid changed that. I don’t know if lessons learned from Samoa and measles included border closure options.
there’s a lot to unpack in that, but I think our polarisation on vaccines doesn’t serve us particularly well.
Polarised debate is an oxymoron, not even a euphemism for a shouting contest across a bottomless and unbridgeable divide. Our politicians are our role models and as soon as they show a sign of deviating from the unwritten book of public opinion, they are hauled over hot coals and condemned to eternal damnation by pundits/voters. Those same voters who pride themselves standing up for the underdog, natural justice, and all that other virtue shit.
For what it's worth this very recent WaPo article based on new CDC document is absolutely worth a read:
“I think the central issue is that vaccinated people are probably involved to a substantial extent in the transmission of delta,” Jeffrey Shaman, a Columbia University epidemiologist, wrote in an email after reviewing the CDC slides. “In some sense, vaccination is now about personal protection — protecting oneself against severe disease. Herd immunity is not relevant as we are seeing plenty of evidence of repeat and breakthrough infections.”
The document underscores what scientists and experts have been saying for months: It is time to shift how people think about the pandemic.
Kathleen Neuzil, a vaccine expert at the University of Maryland School of Medicine, said getting more people vaccinated remains the priority, but the public may also have to change its relationship to a virus almost certain to be with humanity for the foreseeable future.
“We really need to shift toward a goal of preventing serious disease and disability and medical consequences, and not worry about every virus detected in somebody’s nose,” Neuzil said. “It’s hard to do, but I think we have to become comfortable with coronavirus not going away.”
This article is something of a breakthrough in the msm – in that it starts to acknowledge what we've really been up against all along.
AB have you listened to what Kris Faafoi said on the link I posted at the top of Open Mike? That seems to be exactly what he is saying. It might not mean five years in jail but it could.
I'll bet Faafoi refuse to do another interview on the subject. He's apparently to 'busy' to be interviewed on the hate speech legislation and thats one of the most contentious and complicated peices of legislation in recent times.
It does seem unfortunate, though not yet necessarily on the scale of the antismacking debacle. Much depends on whether the rule change is instantiated among people, rather than remaining an object of abstract political contention – which can be quite damaging enough.
The position of the courts in the Tavistock case seems to be that under sixteens are not likely to be able to give informed consent in respect of a treatment as contentious as puberty blocking. They at least are in no hurry to rush in where angels fear to tread. Not so whoever is boosting this policy evidently.
Would those in our parliment care as much about vaccine passports? I'm not sure I can see anything other than the fresher MPs going with the flow, mores the pity.
The city is also working with developers to provide affordable homes. A survey found Auckland contained 40,000 “ghost houses”, properties empty for much of the year.
Labour's Housing spokesman Phil Twyford says there could be thousands of houses in Auckland being left empty.
"That's a shame because there are so many people in Auckland desperate to get a roof over their heads," he says.
Building and Housing Minister Nick Smith doesn't think the number of ghost houses is rising, and there is no way of knowing how many of Auckland's 22,000 unoccupied properties are being deliberately left empty
I think one can conclude that this issue is now bi-partisan.
But then women having an issue that they are worried about and talk about is not a big deal, and really can't they just not understand what the real issues are right? Because we can only ever be concerned about one thing at a time.
A lot of current commentary at the Standard is centred around gender issues.
Perhaps that's because no-one cares about the rest. People are selfish. They do tend to promote their own concerns. People in warm, dry homes can afford to have other concerns.
My concern is housing. I think it's the most important issue out there.
yes, it is currently in the news thus people discuss it.
As for the homeless and unhouses, and those 23000+ on waiting lists surely the government is gonna do something once its got the hate bill done. Surely. Any effn day now. Cause they said so. Right? Anb besides who does not like a bill that risks criminalising parents for maybe refusing to jack their kids up with puperty blockers and undergo permantent surgery in the form of double masectomies at a young age. I mean they did campaign on that? Right?
Yeah, nah, they campaigned on fixing the housing market and keepin NZ safe. Right? Lol.
Setting people up to be criminalized for not letting a child be on puperty blockers willy nilly, setting 'women' and 'lesbians' up for a criminal charge if they refuse to allow transwomen in to their own spaces or to see them as women (aka Gendercrime) is not 'reform', its bullshit, and it is wrong.
And again, I am so very happy to not have voted for this lot, and i will be even happier next time when i will again not vote for them.
Every day again, these people remind me that it was the correct thing to do.
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TL;DR:Shaun Baker on Wynyard Quarter's transformation. Magdalene Taylor on the problem with smart phones. How private equity are now all over reinsurance. Dylan Cleaver on rugby and CTE. Emily Atkin on ‘Big Meat’ looking like ‘Big Oil’.Bernard’s six-stack of substacks at 6pm on March 15Photo by Jeppe Hove Jensen ...
Buzz from the Beehive Finance Minister Nicola Willis had plenty to say when addressing the Auckland Business Chamber on the economic growth that (she tells us) is flagging more than we thought. But the government intends to put new life into it: We want our country to be a ...
The Transport and Infrastructure Committee has reported back on the Road User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill, basicly rubberstamping it. While there was widespread support among submitters for the principle that EV and PHEV drivers should pay their fair share for the roads, they also overwhelmingly disagreed with ...
Peter Dunne writes – This week’s government bailout – the fifth in the last eighteen months – of the financially troubled Ruapehu Alpine Lifts company would have pleased many in the central North Island ski industry. The government’s stated rationale for the $7 million funding was that it ...
See if you can spot the difference. An Iranian born female MP from a progressive party is accused of serial shoplifting. Her name is leaked to the media, which goes into a pack frenzy even before the Police launch an … Continue reading → ...
Ele Ludemann writes – The government is omitting general Treaty references from legislation : The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last Government in a bid to get greater coherence in the public service on Treaty ...
What was that judge thinking?Peter Williams writes – That Golriz Ghahraman and District Court Judge Maria Pecotic were once lawyer colleagues is incontrovertible. There is published evidence that they took at least one case to the Court of Appeal together. There was a report on ...
TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read:Climate Scorpion – the sting is in the tail. Introducing planetary solvency. A paper via the University of Exeter’s Institute and Faculty of Actuaries.Local scoop:Kāinga Ora starts pulling out of its Auckland projects and selling land RNZ ...
Wellington’s massively upzoned District Plan adds the opportunity for tens of thousands of new homes not just in the central city (such as these Webb St new builds) but also close to the CBD and public transport links. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Wellington gave itself the chance of ...
It’s Friday and we’re halfway through March Madness. Here’s some of the things that caught our attention this week. This Week in Greater Auckland On Monday Matt asked how we can get better event trains and an option for grade separating Morningside Dr. On Tuesday Matt looked into ...
Something you might not know about me is that I’m quite a stubborn person. No, really. I don’t much care for criticism I think’s unfair or that I disagree with. Few of us do I suppose.Back when I was a drinker I’d sometimes respond defensively, even angrily. There are things ...
Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the last week included:PM Christopher Luxon said the reversal of interest deductibility for landlords was done to help renters, who ...
It was not so much the Labour Party but really the Chris Hipkins party yesterday at Labour’s caucus retreat in Martinborough. The former Prime Minister was more or less consistent on wealth tax, which he was at best equivocal about, and social insurance, which he was not willing to revisit. ...
Buzz from the BeehiveThe text reproduced above appears on a page which records all the media statements and speeches posted on the government’s official website by Melissa Lee as Minister of Media and Communications and/or by Jenny Marcroft, her Parliamentary Under-secretary. It can be quickly analysed ...
For forty years, Robert Muldoon has been a dirty word in our politics. His style of government was so repulsive and authoritarian that the backlash to it helped set and entrench our constitutional norms. His pig-headedness over forcing through Think Big eventually gave us the RMA, with its participation and ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Is the new government reducing tax on rental properties to benefit landlords or to cut the cost of rents? That’s the big question this week, after Associate Finance Minister David Seymour announced on Sunday that the Government would be reversing the Labour Government’s removal ...
Saudi Arabia is rarely far from the international spotlight. The war in Gaza has brought new scrutiny to Saudi plans to normalise relations with Israel, while the fifth anniversary of the controversial killing of Jamal Khashoggi was marked shortly before the war began on October 7. And as the home ...
Questions need to be asked on both sides of the worldPeter Williams writes – The NRL Judiciary hands down an eight week suspension to Sydney Roosters forward Spencer Leniu , an Auckland-born Samoan, after he calls Ezra Mam, Sydney-orn but of Aboriginal and Torres Strait ...
Ele Ludemann writes – Contrary to what many headlines and news stories are saying, residential landlords are not getting a tax break. The government is simply restoring to them the tax deductibility of interest they had until the previous government removed it. There is no logical reason ...
I can't remember when it was goodMoments of happiness in bloomMaybe I just misunderstoodAll of the love we left behindWatching our flashbacks intertwineMemories I will never findIn spite of whatever you becomeForget that reckless thing turned onI think our lives have just begunI think our lives have just begunDoes anyone ...
Michael Bassett writes – At first reading, a front-page story in the New Zealand Herald on 13 March was bizarre. A group of severely intellectually limited teenagers, with little understanding of the law, have been pleading to the Justice Select Committee not to pass a bill dealing with ram ...
How much political capital is Christopher Luxon willing to burn through in order to deliver his $2.9 billion gift to landlords? Evidently, Luxon is: (a) unable to cost the policy accurately. As Anna Burns-Francis pointed out to him on Breakfast TV, the original ”rock solid” $2.1 billion cost he was ...
TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read:Jonathon Porritt calling bullshit in his own blog post on mainstream climate science as ‘The New Denialism’.Local scoop:The Wellington City Council’s list of proposed changes to the IHP recommendations to be debated later today was leaked this ...
TL;DR:Prime Minister Christopher Luxon said yesterday tenants should be grateful for the reinstatement of interest deductibility because landlords would pass on their lower tax costs in the form of lower rents. That would be true if landlords were regulated monopolies such as Transpower or Auckland Airport1, but they’re not, ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Tom Toro Tom Toro is a cartoonist and author. He has published over 200 cartoons in The New Yorker since 2010. His cartoons appear in Playboy, the Paris Review, the New York Times, American Bystander, and elsewhere. Related: What 10 EV lovers ...
The business section of the NZ Herald is full of opinion. Among the more opinionated of all is the ex-Minister of Transport, ex-Minister of Railways, ex MP for Auckland Central (1975-93, Labour), Wellington Central (1996-99, ACT, then list-2005), ex-leader of the ACT Party, uncle to actor Antonia, the veritable granddaddy ...
Hi,Just quickly — I’m blown away by the stories you’ve shared with me over the last week since I put out the ‘Gary’ podcast, where I told you about the time my friend’s flatmate killed the neighbour.And you keep telling me stories — in the comments section, and in my ...
The first season of Rings of Power was not awful. It was thoroughly underwhelming, yes, and left a lingering sense of disappointment, but it was more expensive mediocrity than catastrophe. I wrote at length about the series as it came out (see the Review section of the blog, and go ...
Buzz from the Beehive Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden told Auckland Business Chamber members they were the first audience to hear her priorities as a minister in a government committed to cutting red tape and regulations. She brandished her liberalising credentials, saying Flexible labour markets are the ...
Chris Trotter writes – TO UNDERSTAND WHY NEWSHUB FAILED, it is necessary to understand how TVNZ changed. Up until 1989, the state broadcaster had been funded by a broadcasting licence fee, collected from every citizen in possession of a television set, supplemented by a relatively modest (compared ...
Bob Edlin writes – The Māori Party has been busy issuing a mix of warnings and threats as its expresses its opposition to interest deductibility for landlords and the plans of seabed miners. It remains to be seen whether they follow the example of indigenous litigants in Australia, ...
The Government has accepted Labour’s change to the Road User Charge (RUC) discount for hybrid vehicles, meaning there will still be some incentive for people to buy greener vehicles. ...
Kicking the most vulnerable people out of state housing and pushing them towards homelessness will result in a proliferation of poverty and trauma across our most vulnerable communities. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader and MP for Waiariki, Rawiri Waititi has penned a letter asking MPs to support his members bill to remove GST from all food. The bill is expected to go through its first reading in parliament this Wednesday. “I’m calling on all political parties to support my ...
This year is about getting real with Kiwis and discussing the tough issues, as the National Government exacerbates inequality and divides New Zealand, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said ...
The Government adding Significant Natural Areas (SNAs) to its already roaring environmental policy bonfire is an assault on the future of wildlife that makes Aotearoa unique. ...
After 12 years of fighting to protect our moana we are finding ourselves back at square one and back at court. Today, the Environmental Protection Agency is sitting in Hawera to reconsider an application from Trans-Tasman Resources to dig up 50 million tonnes of the seabed in South Taranaki. This ...
Minister Shane Jones’ decision to step away from a seabed mining project is evidence of the murky waters surrounding the Government’s fast-track legislation. ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last government in a bid to get greater coherence in the publicservice on Treaty matters. When ministers first considered the need for tighter oversight in 2021, there ...
The Coalition Government’s miscalculation saga continues as it has forgotten an eyewatering $90 million gap in its interest deductibility cost figures, say Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds and Revenue Spokesperson Deborah Russell. ...
He Pou a Rangi Climate Change Commission has today released advice that says if the Government doesn’t act now New Zealand is at risk of not meeting its climate goals. ...
The Coalition Government has today confirmed it is abandoning first home buyers who are struggling to get ahead, says Labour Finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds. ...
The New Zealand public voted for a change in direction at the 2023 general election and that is exactly what this coalition government has been delivering in its first 100 days. There was an immediate focus on the economy, easing the cost of living, cracking down on law and order ...
The Government has left the health system as an afterthought, announcing half-baked targets at the last minute of their 100-day plan, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
Kiwis are still waiting for their promised cost of living support after 100 days of a National Government that is taking us backwards, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The National Government has spent its first 100 days stopping, cutting and reversing. They have scrapped stuff for stuff for the sake of it, without putting up any solutions of their own – and it’s hardworking New Zealanders who will pay for it. ...
100 days of National taking NZ backwardsThe National Government has spent its first 100 days stopping, cutting and reversing. They have scrapped stuff for stuff for the sake of it, without putting up any solutions of their own – and it’s hardworking New Zealanders who will pay for it. ...
The Government must commit to funding free and healthy school lunches, as thousands of people sign the petition to keep them, education spokesperson Jan Tinetti says. ...
If the Government was serious about moving families into public housing, they would build more houses so there is actually somewhere for people to go. ...
The free and healthy school lunches programme feeds our kids, helps them to learn, and saves families money – but it is at risk under this Government, education spokesperson Jan Tinetti said. ...
The Government’s proposed changes to Firearms Prohibition Orders (FPO) add almost nothing new and are merely an attempt to distract from its plans to loosen gun laws, police spokesperson Ginny Andersen and justice spokesperson Dr Duncan Webb said. ...
The great Victorian era English politician Lord Macauley stood in the British House of Parliament and said, "The gallery in which the reporters sit has become a fourth estate of the realm".He understood and outlined even way back then, the significant role and influence media have in a democracy. ...
"The Government is moving quickly to realise an additional $46 million in tariff savings in the EU market this season for Kiwi exporters,” Minister for Trade and Agriculture, Todd McClay says. Parliament is set, this week, to complete the final legislative processes required to bring the New Zealand – European ...
New Zealand’s social workers are qualified, experienced, and more representative of the communities they serve, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “I want to acknowledge and applaud New Zealand’s social workers for the hard work they do, providing invaluable support for our most vulnerable. “To coincide with World ...
Cabinet has agreed to a reduced road user charge (RUC) rate for plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. Owners of PHEVs will be eligible for a reduced rate of $38 per 1,000km once all light electric vehicles (EVs) move into the RUC system from 1 April. ...
Minister of Agriculture and Trade, Todd McClay, says that today’s opening of Riverland Foods manufacturing plant in Christchurch is a great example of how trade access to overseas markets creates jobs in New Zealand. Speaking at the official opening of this state-of-the-art pet food factory the Minister noted that exports ...
Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters met with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Wellington today. “It was a pleasure to host Foreign Minister Wang Yi during his first official visit to New Zealand since 2017. Our discussions were wide-ranging and enabled engagement on many facets of New Zealand’s relationship with China, including trade, ...
Kāinga Ora – Homes & Communities has been instructed to end the Sustaining Tenancies Framework and take stronger measures against persistent antisocial behaviour by tenants, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Earlier today Finance Minister Nicola Willis and I sent an interim Letter of Expectations to the Board of Kāinga Ora. ...
Tēna koutou katoa. Greetings everyone. Thank you to the Auckland Chamber of Commerce and the Honourable Simon Bridges for hosting this address today. I acknowledge the business leaders in this room, the leaders and governors, the employers, the entrepreneurs, the investors, and the wealth creators. The coalition Government shares your ...
Minister Winston Peters completed the final leg of his visit to South and South East Asia in Singapore today, where he focused on enhancing one of New Zealand’s indispensable strategic partnerships. “Singapore is our most important defence partner in South East Asia, our fourth-largest trading partner and a ...
Minister of Internal Affairs and Workplace Relations and Safety, Hon. Brooke van Velden, will travel to the Republic of Korea to represent New Zealand at the Third Summit for Democracy on 18 March. The summit, hosted by the Republic of Korea, was first convened by the United States in 2021, ...
ICNZ Speech 7 March 2024, Auckland Acknowledgements and opening Mōrena, ngā mihi nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Good morning, it’s a privilege to be here to open the ICNZ annual conference, thank you to Mark for the Mihi Whakatau My thanks to Tim Grafton for inviting me ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Lead Coordination Minister Judith Collins have expressed their deepest sympathy on the five-year anniversary of the Christchurch terror attacks. “March 15, 2019, was a day when families, communities and the country came together both in sorrow and solidarity,” Mr Luxon says. “Today we pay our respects to the 51 shuhada ...
Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024 Acknowledgements and opening Morena, Nga Mihi Nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Thanks Nate for your Mihi Whakatau Good morning. It’s a pleasure to formally open your conference this morning. What a lovely day in Wellington, What a great ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters held discussions in Jakarta today about the future of relations between New Zealand and South East Asia’s most populous country. “We are in Jakarta so early in our new government’s term to reflect the huge importance we place on our relationship with Indonesia and South ...
Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters has announced that the Foreign Minister of China, Wang Yi, will visit New Zealand next week. “We look forward to re-engaging with Foreign Minister Wang Yi and discussing the full breadth of the bilateral relationship, which is one of New Zealand’s ...
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has today opened the new Auckland Rail Operations Centre, which will bring together KiwiRail, Auckland Transport, and Auckland One Rail to improve service reliability for Aucklanders. “The recent train disruptions in Auckland have highlighted how important it is KiwiRail and Auckland’s rail agencies work together to ...
The Government is proud to support the 10th edition of Crankworx Rotorua as the Crankworx World Tour returns to Rotorua from 16-24 March 2024, says Minister for Economic Development Melissa Lee. “Over the past 10 years as Crankworx Rotorua has grown, so too have the economic and social benefits that ...
Legislation implementing coalition Government tax commitments and addressing long-standing tax anomalies will be progressed in Parliament next week, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The legislation is contained in an Amendment Paper to the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill issued today. “The Amendment Paper represents ...
Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard has today announced that the Government has agreed to suspend the requirement for councils to comply with the Significant Natural Areas (SNA) provisions of the National Policy Statement for Indigenous Biodiversity for three years, while it replaces the Resource Management Act (RMA).“As it stands, SNAs ...
Agriculture Minister Todd McClay has classified the drought conditions in the Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts as a medium-scale adverse event, acknowledging the challenging conditions facing farmers and growers in the district. “Parts of Marlborough, Tasman, and Nelson districts are in the grip of an intense dry spell. I know ...
The Government is helping farmers eradicate the significant impact of facial eczema (FE) in pastoral animals, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced. “A $20 million partnership jointly funded by Beef + Lamb NZ, the Government, and the primary sector will save farmers an estimated NZD$332 million per year, and aims to ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has completed a successful visit to India, saying it was an important step in taking the relationship between the two countries to the next level. “We have laid a strong foundation for the Coalition Government’s priority of enhancing New Zealand-India relations to generate significant future benefit for both countries,” says Mr Peters, ...
Cabinet has agreed to provide $7 million to ensure the 2024 ski season can go ahead on the Whakapapa ski field in the central North Island but has told the operator Ruapehu Alpine Lifts it is the last financial support it will receive from taxpayers. Cabinet also agreed to provide ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says the launch of a new mobile breast screening unit in Counties Manukau reinforces the coalition Government’s commitment to drive better cancer services for all New Zealanders. Speaking at the launch of the new mobile clinic, Dr Reti says it’s a great example of taking ...
Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
Unlocking economic growth and land for housing are critical elements of the Government’s plan for our transport network, and planned upgrades to State Highway 29 (SH29) near Tauriko will deliver strongly on those priorities, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The SH29 upgrades near Tauriko will improve safety at the intersections ...
Lower fruit and vegetable prices are welcome news for New Zealanders who have been doing it tough at the supermarket, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. Stats NZ reported today the price of fruit and vegetables has dropped 9.3 percent in the 12 months to February 2024. “Lower fruit and vege ...
Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all. Chair, I am honoured to address the 68th session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
Tēnā koutou katoa and greetings to you all. Chair, I am honoured to address the sixty-eighth session of the Commission on the Status of Women. I acknowledge the many crises impacting the rights of women and girls. Heightened global tensions, war, climate related and humanitarian disasters, and price inflation all ...
The coalition Government is supporting farmers to enhance land management practices by investing $3.3 million in locally led catchment groups, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced. “Farmers and growers deliver significant prosperity for New Zealand and it’s vital their ongoing efforts to improve land management practices and water quality are supported,” ...
Good evening everyone and thank you for that lovely introduction. Thank you also to the Honourable Simon Bridges for the invitation to address your members. Since being sworn in, this coalition Government has hit the ground running with our 100-day plan, delivering the changes that New Zealanders expect of us. ...
Recommendations from the Climate Change Commission for New Zealand on the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) auction and unit limit settings for the next five years have been tabled in Parliament, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “The Commission provides advice on the ETS annually. This is the third time the ...
The coalition Government is beginning its fight to lower building costs and reduce red tape by exempting minor building work from paying the building levy, says Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk. “Currently, any building project worth $20,444 including GST or more is subject to the building levy which is ...
Proposed changes to tax legislation to prevent the over-taxation of low-earning trusts are welcome, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The changes have been recommended by Parliament’s Finance and Expenditure Committee following consideration of submissions on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2023–24, Multinational Tax, and Remedial Matters) Bill. “One of the ...
Assalaamu alaikum. السَّلَام عليكم In light of the holy month of Ramadan, I want to extend my warmest wishes to our Muslim community in New Zealand. Ramadan is a time for spiritual reflection, renewed devotion, perseverance, generosity, and forgiveness. It’s a time to strengthen our bonds and appreciate the diversity ...
Former Transport Minister and CEO of the Auckland Business Chamber Hon Simon Bridges has been appointed as the new Board Chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) for a three-year term, Transport Minister Simeon Brown announced today. “Simon brings extensive experience and knowledge in transport policy and governance to the role. He will ...
Good morning all, it is a pleasure to be here as Minister of Science, Innovation and Technology. It is fantastic to see how connected and collaborative the life science and biotechnology industry is here in New Zealand. I would like to thank BioTechNZ and NZTech for the invitation to address ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says he is looking forward to the day when three key water projects in Northland are up and running, unlocking the full potential of land in the region. Mr Jones attended a community event at the site of the Otawere reservoir near Kerikeri on Friday. ...
Associate Finance Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government has agreed to restore deductibility for mortgage interest on residential investment properties. “Help is on the way for landlords and renters alike. The Government’s restoration of interest deductibility will ease pressure on rents and simplify the tax code,” says ...
Sport and Recreation Minister Chris Bishop will travel to Switzerland today to attend an Executive Committee meeting and Symposium of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). Mr Bishop will then travel on to London where he will attend a series of meetings in his capacity as Infrastructure Minister. “New Zealanders believe ...
Pacific Media Watch Earthwise hosts Lois and Martin Griffiths. Earthwise presenters Lois and Martin Griffiths on Plains FM 96.9 community radio talk to Dr David Robie, a New Zealand author, independent journalist and media educator with a passion for the Asia-Pacific region. David talks about the struggle to raise awareness ...
Pacific Media Watch Ismail al-Ghoul, an Al Jazeera Arabic correspondent who was held for 12 hours at Gaza’s al-Shifa hospital, says Israeli forces rounded up Palestinian journalists at the facility and made them kneel on the ground for hours, while naked and blindfolded. “The occupation forces handcuffed and blindfolded us ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tony Wood, Program Director, Energy, Grattan Institute chinasong, Shutterstock Electricity customers in four Australian states can breathe a sigh of relief. After two years in a row of 20% price increases, power prices have finally stabilised. In many places they’re ...
Chumbawamba have reportedly issued the deputy PM a cease-and-desist notice after he used their song 'Tubthumping' before his state of the nation speech. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Deborah Lupton, SHARP Professor, Vitalities Lab, Centre for Social Research in Health and Social Policy Centre, and the ARC Centre of Excellence for Automated Decision-Making and Society, UNSW Sydney kitzcorner/Shutterstock The assertion from Queensland’s chief health officer John Gerrard that ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Martin, Visiting Fellow, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University Shutterstock Why are musicians so keen to get played on the radio? It can’t be because of the money. In Australia they are paid at rates so low they ...
"Farmers make a point not to tell our urban cousins how to live, yet Chlöe from central Auckland is hell-bent on having her say about farmers," says ACT Rural Communities spokesman Mark Cameron. “On her first day in the House as Green ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards – Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)Political scientist, Dr Bryce Edwards. It’s been a tumultuous time in politics in recent months, as the new National-led Government has driven through its “First 100 Day programme”. During this period there’s been a handful of opinion polls, which overall just ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tim Curran, Associate Professor of Ecology, Lincoln University, New Zealand Getty Images/Gerald Corsi In the latest move to reform environmental laws in New Zealand, the coalition government has introduced a bill to fast-track consenting processes for projects deemed to ...
Uber has argued it does not have as much control over drivers as the unions suggest, and wants a judgment ruling that drivers are employees and not contractors set aside and sent back to the Employment Court. The 2022 ruling followed a three-week hearing in which four drivers sought to ...
What can and can’t be purchased by disabled people or their carers has been slashed in an effort by the Ministry of Disabled People Whaikaha to save money. The purchasing guidelines, a set of rules that sets out what can be purchased using the various streams of Government disability funding, ...
The Treasury has published today a new Analytical Note by Tod Wright and Hien Nguyen, Fiscal incidence in New Zealand: The effects of taxes and benefits on household incomes in tax year 2018/19 . Analyses of the distributional impact of taxation and government ...
The Treasury has published today a new Analytical Note by Cory Davis, Boston Hart and Benjamin Stubbing, Household cost-of-living impacts from the Emissions Trading Scheme and using transfers to mitigate regressive outcomes . This Analytical Note ...
A coalition of public transport and climate organisations, united as ‘Transport for All’, is actively opposing the government’s transport proposals. The draft Government Policy Statement (GPS) includes plans for higher fares for public transport, ...
Greater Wellington is inviting feedback on proposed changes to its Revenue and Financing Policy. The Revenue and Financing Policy covers the Council’s various sources of funding, and how the cost of services is shared across the region. This includes ...
Labour has conceded it could have done more to deal with disruptive state housing tenants while in government but says the current coalition is going too far. ...
The band has asked their record label to issue a cease and desist to stop the NZ First leader using their 1997 hit to support his ‘misguided political views’. “I get knocked down, but I get up again,” blared through the speakers on Sunday as Winston Peters took the stage ...
By Lydia Lewis, RNZ Pacific journalist Food rationing is underway in remote areas in Papua New Guinea’s Highlands following torrential rain and flash flooding. More than 20 people have been reported dead in Chimbu Province. In nearby Enga Province, the centre of last month’s massacre, a 15-year-old boy has been ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Hughes, Lecturer, Research School of Management, Australian National University After months of debate and intrigue, the AFL’s 19th and newest team, the Tasmania Devils, finally launched its jumper, logo and colours in Devonport this week. The Devils will wear green, ...
Brannavan Gnanalingam reviews the debut novel by Saraid de Silva.One of the most baffling things for children who move to a new country is what their parents’ (or grandparents’) lives were like prior to moving – for kids in particular, they’re too busy trying to fit in in their ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Gaunson, Associate Professor in Cinema Studies, RMIT University Narelle Portanier/Binge “If you don’t know who your mob are, you don’t know who you are,” Detective Andrea “Andie” Whitford (played by Leah Purcell) is told early into the new crime ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Elise Klein, Associate professor, Australian National University It’s commonly accepted that women do the vast majority of caregiving in Australian society. But less appreciated is that Indigenous women do larger amounts of unpaid care than any other group. Working with the Aboriginal ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne Joe Biden and Donald Trump have both secured their parties’ nominations for the November 5 United States general election by winning a ...
Comment: There has been a striking contrast in trans-Tasman interest about Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi’s visit to New Zealand and Australia. While the Australian press has been full of articles about the visit – including his curious decision to meet with former prime minister and China booster Paul Keating ...
After years of pressuring banks and other institutions to stop investing in fossil fuels, climate campaigners are making some progress. So how does divestment work?For years, climate activists have been pushing banks and other big institutions to divest from fossil fuels. New research from climate advocacy group 350 Aotearoa ...
For Boba, Ethan and Ashley, K-pop is a place to belong, a way to express themselves, and a bridge to connect with others. The three young Polynesians are part of a K-pop fan community in Tāmaki Makaurau. It’s one of many that have sprung up worldwide as K-pop has gone ...
For Boba, Ethan and Ashley, K-pop is a place to belong, a way to express themselves, and a bridge to connect with others. This one-off documentary presents three intimate portraits of young Polynesians who are pulled into a Korean cultural phenomenon. K-POLYS is directed by Litia Tuiburelevu, Produced by Hex ...
There’s ample evidence demonstrating free school lunch programmes provide wide benefits across schools, households and communities according to public health researchers. ACT Minister David Seymour wants to reduce the spending on Aotearoa New Zealand’s ...
By Wata Shaw in Suva Fiji is facing an exodus of Fijians as many are leaving for overseas seeking employment and education and others are migrating, says Opposition MP Viliame Naupoto. Speaking in Parliament, he said: “His Excellency’s speech (Ratu Wiliame Katonivere) comes after a little over one year of ...
The Taxpayers’ Union is welcoming comments from Christopher Luxon this morning recommitting to ‘no new taxes’ as part of Budget 2024. “Mr Luxon’s refusal at the Post-Cabinet press conference yesterday to repeat the ‘no new taxes’ promise ...
SAFE is urgently calling on the Environment Committee to reject the Government’s Fast-Track Approvals Bill, and is urging New Zealanders to rally behind the call. The proposed Bill, currently under consideration with the Environment select committee, ...
Teammates who spend all their time picking fights with spectators are only helpful for the other team, writes Madeleine Chapman. Anyone who has ever played a team sport competitively, particularly as a child and particularly, for some reason, basketball, will know that there’s a lot of politics involved. While there ...
The long-running Wellington music festival is too focused on the Jim Beam-ness and not enough on the Homegrown-ness.There is something about Homegrown that’s difficult to place. A barely perceptible-ness. Like feeling a ghost is watching you from the corner of the room but when you look, there’s nothing there. ...
The latest Ipsos New Zealand Issues Monitor reveals that fewer New Zealanders believe crime / law and order is one of the top issues facing our country. In 2018, Ipsos New Zealand started tracking the key issues facing New Zealand. In this wave ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kate Griffiths, Deputy Program Director, Budgets and Government, Grattan Institute Australia’s political donations rules are woefully inadequate, but donations reform is finally on the agenda. The federal government has signalled its interest in reform and will soon begin briefing MPs on its ...
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https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/audio/kris-faafoi-you-cant-try-to-change-someones-sexual-orientation-or-gender-identity/
anyone not deeply concerned about this needs to take a good hard look at themselves.
you have it from our Minister of Justice. If you are a parent of a 12 year old who identifies as a member of the opposite sex, and as a parent you say no to your child taking puberty blockers (that countries such as the UK and Finland no longer allow and for which there is no good evidence for their efficacy), then it would be seen to be attempting conversion therapy and said parent could be dragged through the legal process and face five years in jail.
who in earth in the right mind thinks this is ok? Labour has been completely captured by gender ideology and have completely lost it.
I will be actively campaigning to see them voted out
a child at 12 years of age
can not consent to sex
can not legally conduct business
can not get a tattoo
can not get a lisence
can not move out to live on its own
can not get a full time job
but they can and will get puperty blockers.
I am very happy i have twice not voted for this crew.
Its absolute insantiy, its lucky the Nats are a shamble because if stuff like this starts getting traction alongside hate speech legislation the the tide will turn against the govt very quickly… fuck lightbulbs and showerheads became a flashpoint for Helen Clarke this will be much much worse.
Yet here we are, all using said lightbulbs and shower heads.
Is it all the same to a Labour Voter? Your child is comparable to a shower head or maybe an EV?
Funny though, that what people fear under national they wholeheartedly agree with under labour. So its not a question of 'better' its a question of unquestioning loyalty and as always in these cases the most vulnerable will pay the bill.
In this case, kids that may wake up in the future, with their reproductive organs destroyed in the name of a bullshit gender ID.
As for the lightbulbs and showerheads, ask yourself if you will be rich enough in the future to have enough money to pay for the electricity and the water use?
Cricklewood made the analogy, idiot.
Yep… because the issue sat with people not wanting govt to rwll them what to do in their homes… this potentially has the same effect.
well, i voted for Helen Clark that last election that she lost to John Key. I would have loved to vote for Jeaneatte Fitzsimmons, but all that is history.
To compare the potential of long lasting physical damage to people because as pre- teens they wanted to be the opposite sex for waht ever reasons shows to me that some people have lost what it means to be human imo.
Maybe the governments decision to mutilate the children of this country in the name of Gender ID is cheaper then to actually tackle sexual harrasment /rape /physical violence against girls and women, and it must be certainly cheaper tehn actually providing mental health support to those who need and want it.
Labour, cheap as, and proudly so.
The issue of parents facing five years in prison for telling their kids they are not getting puberty blockers is the what I posted about.
Bringing in light bulbs and showerheads is just a deflection technique and has no relevance to the conversion therapy bill .
Muttonbird either have the guts to say you don;t think there is a problem with parents who say no to their 12 year old taking puberty blockers facing a five year prison sentence or admit that things are going horribly wrong.
My point was that voters dont like govts telling them how to live and the certainly wont like being told how to raise their children and being potentially criminalized for it.
To be clear im completely against the proposed as I am hate speech legislation
Hi Cricklewood, my comment was directed towards Muttonbird who I felt implied that there was nothing to see here, we all got use to showerheads.
So understand you were making the point that people hate interference in their home life
Again, it was Cricklewood who made the analogy. Why don't you try reading the comments?
ok Muttonbird, I take your point. I think you then added "yet here we are all using light bulbs and showerheads".
I interpreted this as meaning in 15 years time no one with be bothered about kids on puberty blockers. My apologies if that is not what you meant at all
I don't imagine parents are going to go to prison for blocking blockers.
What Faafoi should have said to 1ZB was that he hoped parents and children would discuss all options available with qualified medical and psychological experts and find out what's best for their family.
1ZB’s gotcha, shock-jock broadcasting does not help inform the public well on sensitive subjects.
I think they are disgraceful myself but aggressive, fake-news reporting seems to be the favoured model as media outlets vie for the ears of cashed up conservative wankers.
"Yet here we are, all using said lightbulbs and shower heads."
Was that worth nine years of FJK?
Depends on whom you ask. I think some people would argue that those nine long years were the golden years of and for the National Party. It was only because the Election was ‘stolen’ from them that they didn’t get a fourth term, it was that close.
Efficacy at what; Anker? The evidence is certainly conclusive that GnRHa are efficacious in the role of blocking the onset of puberty. Maybe you mean; effective in creating positive health outcomes for the patients? But even that isn't very controversial, though at least less clearcut:
https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/142/4/e20182162
If dysphoria is too difficult a topic, lets shift over to precocious puberty. Whatever the opinions on Trans use of puberty blockers, can we at least agree that pre-teens are really not mature enough to go through puberty, and that it's good to have medicine to delay that?
Youngest mother on record was Lina Medina at 5years age (father was never identified – pre Franklin, so no DNA tests); apparently she's still alive somewhere in Peru. She would likely have appreciated access to puberty blockers!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lina_Medina
https://segm.org/NICE_gender_medicine_systematic_review_finds_poor_quality_evidence
Forget now…………….NICE have done a thorough review of these medications. There findings show no or very low evidence of benefit
NICE (National Institute for Clinical and Health Care Excellence ) review most medical treatments. they are independent and scrupulous in their findings. Their finding trump any other research you might quote. In this case there is no debate about this.
Moving along now Forget Now are you ok with parents of a 12 year old who say no to puberty blockers facing a prison sentence for five years?
I am not hear to debate the issue of precocious puberty. I would hope that clinicians consult with parents about medical options and that the parents have a very large say in that, if not the only say and don’t face five years in jail for saying no.
What's the efficacy in using puberty blockers to treat gender dysphoria?
How many kids on PBs progress to cross sex hormones?
What risks are there from both classes of drugs?
Why aren't the voices of detrans people being heard in this debate, especially detrans lesbians?
ie young women who transitioned to trans men, then detransitioned for a range of reasons including it made no difference to their GD or made it worse.
Young lesbians who found an easier pathway to being a trans man than an out lesbian, but who later realised that radical surgery and hormones came at a huge cost that wasn't warranted in their case.
Young people in a huge bloody mess whose only option was gender identity affirmation from clinicians, and who weren't offered or supported into looking at other mental health issues or social pressures, and who weren't offered other treatments eg counselling.
The reason for little or no trans or ex trans comments on this list is, I would posit, pretty easy to discern from recent post. What posts you ask, the ones where lots of people on this list made statements of support for trans people at the same time as declaring they are just (in the case of MTF) Men in dresses, I'm sure you can find them fairly easily, there are lots of them, some of them attacking Stephanie Rodgers for example. I'm only commenting because I've had enough of being demonised by people who post things like 'NICE' research trumps any other you could come up with. O course it does if it agrees with y ur view of the world and how it works. I will at least be up front here, I am a 64 year old Trans woman and I don't agree with self identifying. I also think that there is a lot of transphobia in some of those posts. Don't think I'm saying people hate trans folk, I'm not because that's not what transphobia is. The word says it, it is a phobia, a fear of trans people, though why anyone would fear me is pretty inconceivable. You have come up with Women Space, good on you, I'm not asking for transpace because I suspect I might be the only, or one of the very few trans people who read the Standard on a regular basis so what would be the point, but I certainly wouldn't feel welcome in the women's space, and believe me I don't actually care what anyone thinks of me personally but there are some pretty broad brush strokes being made in the posts I have referred to. Anyway, my 2 cents worth.
Nobody has been attacking Stephanie Rodgers. Lots of people criticised her argument which (if you read the recent post) declared the obvious fact that biological males gain significant long lasting sporting performance advantages during puberty, to be irrelevant. She is however welcome to make a serious argument at any time, just this early cut was perceived as feeble (a bunch of slogans which are clearly contradicted by the evidence).
Joanne, hang in there.
I'm still optimistic the clauses in the bill will pass, and all the anxiety will evaporate.
We're the first country on earth to send a transsexual to the Olympics and yet we're still waiting for the legislation to catch up with reality.
I reckon the next five years in NZ will go something like this:
A government, court, sporting body, or any damned institution anywhere will make a reasoned judgement on the issue, mostly with a genuine intention of making the best call with the best available knowledge at the time, based on their organisational objectives.
A bunch of people will go "but why didn't they listen to us? This is a tragic day for our community and justice".
A bunch of other people will praise the organisation's "brave" and "fair" decision that was made "rationally, on the available facts".
As to which group is which, things will probably keep going the way they're going for the next few years, but the conservative backlash will be ugly.
Well I agree McFlock, I think the backlash will be ugly.
I don't see why some poor parent should be dragged through the court system or threatened with it, facing 5 years in jail, just because they tell their 12 year old kid they can't go on puberty blockers.
Or, to rephrase the information in your linked article in comment 1, even if the police and the attorney general seperately come to the conclusion that there is sufficent evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the parents' medical choices for their child are demonstrably causing harm with the intention of trying to change the child's sexual orientation or gender identity, you don't believe that such an instance should be put to the court.
BTW, it's "Laurel" Hubbard. At least get her name right.
AB that is a fair comment from you.
But I think it should be ruled out pronto! It will damage the party hugely and if they don't rule it out, they will be dead meat when the first test case comes to light.
By the way a father went to jail for six months in Canada for refusing to accept hibs daughters gender identity and objected to the treatment proposed. I think from memory she was 14 years old. Will find the link if you like.
Reply to McFlock…….Of course it shouldn't go to court…….It should be dealt with as all other such issues, through Orangi Tamariki. Whatever their faults, that is their job. That is the sort of thing they deal with.
The legislation will intimidate parents for making what they consider is the best decision for their child.
I wasn't going to comment on Laurel Hubbard today, but I am wondering if anyone can tell me, if there is no difference or very little between female and males in sport, how come Laurel, didn't get very far when she competed as a man?
Well Ad not everyone agrees with Laureen Hubbard competing in the women's section. I have posted it many times, but biological males have a significant advantage over biological women in sports. Tracey also posted a separate link on Women's Day.
Ad your comments are another example of a man being happy to celebrate handing over a women's category, space to a biological male. Thanks but no thanks.
If you followed the issue in the US there are multiple examples of transwomen, biological males winning against females, taking their awards. Nothing to celebrate there.
transwomen more than welcome to compete in what should be the open category.
Thanks Joanne. I don't disagree that TS isn't very conducive to trans people talking openly about trans politics. But then I'm a feminist who rarely feels it's worth it or safe to write feminist posts on TS. Few people seem bothered enough to do anything about that either.
"O course it does if it agrees with y ur view of the world and how it works."
The irony there is that if No Debate hadn't happened, we'd have worked through most of the issues by now. The great thing about TS is that if someone puts up a piece of R/S, others can pull it apart. On *any side of a debate. The shit thing about TS, is that it takes time to do this, and the most marginalised people often don't have the time or safety or inclination to use up their energy that way. But at least there is an opportunity here to make progress.
I also believe that there is transphobia on the left and within GC/GCF movements, both antipathy towards trans women and the subconscious or casual transphobia that exists in the same way that sexism or racism does on the left. Again No Debate is a massive problem here that is actively hindering resolving this.
One thing that would help if is people saying there is transphobia in a comment or post they also quoted the specific bit and explained *how it is transphobic.
I think calling trans women 'men in dresses' is demeaning, and usually speaks to the person being transphobic. It's also an own goal for GCFs because part of the point of breaking down gender role norms is to free people from oppression so that we can wear whatever we want. I key word searched the Women's Day comments and there aren't any comments of that kind there, there are some under the Kathleen Stock post, but to me they're mostly not aimed at TW but at cross dressing men. People are on a learning curve about what trans is, and the definition of trans is so broad now that it's going to take time in society to work through what is fair and just.
I'm sure it looks different to you. All I can offer here is that if people want to address any of these issues, I'll do my best to moderate so that it doesn't get out of hand and so that all sides get a fair hearing.
Thanks Weka, I've been reading TS for over 24 years though I've only commented a handful of times, however I have never felt that I had to speak up on behalf of Trans folk until this GC/GCF business came up. At university in my 40's I was always welcome in the women only spaces and I found hearing how unwelcome I actually was to be quite dispiriting. If anyone is interested in discussing any issue related to trans ness I am happy to share my understandings in relation to my lived experience, but it is only my experience. Other people will will have different experiences than I do so I personally prefer that mine don't get somehow assigned to all trans women.
I think there would be many here who would welcome hearing your views based on lived experience. Myself, I think such stories are crucial to building understanding across difference.
Ok Joanne, I am glad you have posted your point of view
I have to say I don't think I am demonising other's research when I say NICE trumps other research. As I said NICE is an Institute that is thoroughly objective and impatial. They don't really care what the evidence shows them, they just care about being scuperlous about evidence. I think it is fair to say that a lot of the research that has been done is by people who hold a particular position.
I think Stephanie was criticized by one or two commentators on the Women's Day post, but I don't recall her previously commenting on the Standard, although I understand she did.
If isn't that pleasant when people make it personal. Someone on today's Open Mike said about me, words to the effect that "you make yourself look like a deranged obsessive". That was pretty unkind, but I guess he is entitled to that view. I would prefer it if he had of debated the issue. So sometimes people get personal on the Standard. Its unfortunate. I try not to myself, but it would be untrue to say I never have.
I appreciate you commenting and I wish you well
I am with you Anker on this one. I know very little on this legislation. However as the father of a 10 year old daughter I heard all I need to hear from the Minister on HDA to confirm this legislation absolutely needs to be opposed.
HI David, Yes I totally understand your concern!
Take care and if you have energy for it, write to your MP or visit them. Gather up any friends who are also alarmed and take action if you are in the position to do so.
I'm with you and Anker. And after Faafoi's similarly awful performance on the hate speech laws, I'm beginning to wonder if the problem may be both the message and the messenger.
Yip the worlds getting stupider by the day, my kid told me the other day that thier school tried gender fluid toilets at a primary school for fucks sake!!
No surprises they got rid of it because boys took the piss , literally by the sound of it .
Act and national grow in % every poll fucking snap out of it you fools.
OMG bwaghorn………
Yes snap out of it you fools.
Restrictions on unvaccinated people are starting to happen in many places overseas.
https://fortune.com/2021/07/26/europe-us-next-steps-covid-passport-mandatory-vaccine-fight-delta-variant/
Outright anger at the unvaccinated is happening more and more in the US.
https://people.com/human-interest/vaccinated-americans-express-anger-with-those-who-refuse-covid-vaccines/
It's likely both those things are coming to New Zealand sometime early next year, after all those that want the vaccine have received it.
Surely they can quickly write a bill and criminalise all these people. I hear prisons are a good investment.
Well yes we doing seem to proposing to criminalize more things so investing in prisons seems a safe bet… and I read today the comancheros have their own wing in Mt Eden remand prison… wtf
There is good money in keeping a high bed occupancy rates in Prisons.
Labour/National, The same coin, very little difference.
Yes National want to lock up the gangas, Labour want to lock up parents who refuse their kids puberty blockers, or therapists who attempt to explore issues with clients (which is what therapists do) get mis-interpreted as conversion therapy. Or worse still a vexacious clients lies about what was actually said.
Therapists are regulated by Professionals Bodies. They should be left to do their job of evaluating complaints about therapists. There is also the Health and Disability Commisioner. I have only heard of one therapist in this country practicing conversion therapy. FFS what overkill.
If I was a therapist I would be looking not to working with any clients who I felt under threat of a prison sentence. Lets face it there is a desparate shortage of therapists. Why would you want to endanger yourself?
Interesting comment. A few months back I was nattering away one night with the guy who heads up our site security/service group. Turns out like most mature people he's started out in a quite different field (that I won't detail for privacy reasons) – but it was very much dealing with people's personal issues and counselling.
I asked why he gave it away as it was clear he had invested decades of his life into it and I'd judge he was very good at it. His answer was partly the predictable burnout that most of these people experience – and exactly what you describe, the increasing risk of vexacious clients. He went on to say that in many ways he missed the work – the burnout you could recover from – but the professional hazard had only become worse with time.
Yes National want to lock up the gangas, Labour want to lock up parents who refuse their kids puberty blockers, or therapists who attempt to explore issues with clients (which is what therapists do) get mis-interpreted as conversion therapy. Or worse still a vexacious clients lies about what was actually said.
Therapists are regulated by Professionals Bodies. They should be left to do their job of evaluating complaints about therapists. There is also the Health and Disability Commisioner. I have only heard of one therapist in this country practicing conversion therapy. FFS what overkill.
If I was a therapist I would be looking not to working with any clients who I felt under threat of a prison sentence. Lets face it there is a desparate shortage of therapists. Why would you want to endanger yourself?
Nah, no real need. It's a fairly short-term issue. At most it will just be two or three years before pretty much everyone has either been vaccinated, or got the disease and died or survived the disease with whatever long term problems they get from the experience.
Although maybe if the Nats were in power, they'd go for it. Like you say, it's a great potential business opportunity.
Who cares what National would do when it is Labour running the show.
And i personally don't believe that this virus is going anywhere soon. And anyone who does, must really ask themselves why they think it will.
I totally expect prisons for the 'uneductated' and the ‘unwilling’ and ‘unvaccinated’ and ‘unco-operative’ and i would not put it past Labour to fill those prisons. After all, the economy must be going strong.
But then, some truly believe that Labour is not the other side of the same coin. 🙂
What the Nats might do becomes a relevant question in 2023. Particularly if public opinion swings against Labour's handling of pandemic.
Either by being perceived to be unreasonably restrictive (ignore the rantings of the Husks and his ilk, they're not the swing voters), or by being perceived to have opened up too early by being insufficiently mindful of new information (like I happen to think they were by opening up to Oz when Delta was starting to happen and neither Oz nor we had any kind of wide vaccine coverage).
i honestly don't care.
Our political environment is called MMP.
The best government anyone of us can hope for is one that is based on multiple parties forging a coalition.
And that is the same on the left and the right.
I think public opinion will swing against parents facing five years in jail for telling their kids they can't use puberty blockers. Wait for the back lash.
I don't see any good options as to who governs NZ, but one thing is for sure. I have lost all respect for Labour.
Y'know, you've probably made your views clear on other threads today. Derailing this thread to your hobbyhorse as well just makes you look like an unhinged single-issue obsessive.
Y'know Andre, it is Open Mike, so my understanding is that any topic here is o.k. And you know I was the first to comment today, so I have know idea about what you mean about de-railing this thread.
"makes you look like an unhinged single-issue obsessive"……thank you for your very gracious response to me. (sarc)……….I most often find on this issue, when people have no decent arguements, that start trying to label me i.e. they play the woman not the ball.
I am not aware of any rules on the Standard that say you must post or comment on more than one issue. I am sure the moderators would have pulled me up if this was the case.
I
Y'know I have been pondering this some more Andre. Have you just gaslighted me? You know that thing people do where they try to make out to others that a person is crazy ("unhinged" or "obsessive") to try and disempower and discredit them.
What do you think???????
Whatever, please don't imply anything about my mental health again please.
And btw, a number of people on this thread and this site support what I am saying.
Parents can be imprisoned for many acts against their children here. In the USA children can divorce their parents, and there have been cases where children know their gender long before 12 years of age.
Being a parent does not make one infallible, just emotionally invested. The important person in this equation is the child. Rigid thinking won't help, and outside experts as in psychology, may assist with what may be a family trauma.
This government has gone with the science in their practice, and will continue to do so.
Last time it was vaccinating girls against human pap virus which some thought parents would refuse believing it would encourage loose behaviour. Now vaccination is clearly accepted.
Ministers have advisers, and do sometimes get ahead of public opinion. It is a balance of rights in a situation where the child is powerless, a hard one.
This government has gone with the science …
There's science, and then there's science.
Discrepancies in the evaluation of the safety of the human papillomavirus vaccine
Despite being more than ten years since its introduction, global acceptance to the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine is still low. The immunogenetic background of the host, and HPV antigen recognition, are important in natural HPV infection, and should be taken into account in the understanding of adverse autoimmune reactions by the HPV vaccine in certain groups. There is no doubt of the benefit of vaccines in the reduction of the incidence of infectious diseases, and in the case of HPV, the prevention of persistent infection that would lead to cervical cancer. Side-effects, however, should be closely monitored and reported without any bias, to ensure that the benefits of vaccines outweigh the risks of adverse reactions. In this article we bring the attention on certain adverse effects of the vaccine against HPV that have not been well studied as they are not well defined. We also compare the different approaches on HPV vaccine policies regarding its adverse reactions in countries like Japan and Colombia, vs. the recommendations issued by the WHO.
It is way too easy to write off those with concerns about a vaccine to prevent cervical cancer as being religious fundamentalists. Too easy, and lazy, and in too many instances harmful to too many young women.
That small and seemingly insignificant percentage of vaccine recipients who suffer severe and long term adverse reactions are routinely dismissed and ignored.
This refusal to acknowledge that some vaccines do harm some people does more to fuel vaccine hesitancy than any anti -vax promoter.
That small and seemingly insignificant percentage of vaccine recipients who suffer severe and long term adverse reactions are routinely dismissed and ignored.
And the consequence of this is an undermining of trust. One of the defining characteristics of the entire public health apparatus during this pandemic has been it's treating of the public as children – who can be routinely underinformed or misdirected 'for their own good'. You might get away with this a few times, but eventually enough people see what's going on.
And face it – vaccines (indeed almost all medical interventions for that matter) depend on trust. None of us, not even medical professionals themselves, can be across the details of everything. So when we see public health systems behaving in ways that seem untrustworthy, or corrupt even, it becomes normal and natural to doubt, question and seek better answers.
To be fair it's my view that public health systems were handicapped from the start in that they believed that SARS-COVID-2 was just another zoonotic virus that could be safely handled with their existing toolkit. I think it's turned out this was only partly true and globally the response has been deeply politicised and fumbled from the start. And in particular the window of opportunity to drive this virus to extinction last year has passed – I was optimistic then, I'm not now.
Instead we've allowed this virus to do what it was created to do, adapt to evolutionary selection pressure and the result is at this point in time – Delta. And slowly public health authorities are waking up to how this has changed the game. To add to the challenge there are so many complex parts to this pandemic, so many contradictory aspects that I doubt anyone really understands what is going on and what's likely to happen next.
We're truly in uncharted waters now and it would be better if we cut down the volume of the bickering and paid more attention to what was happening.
To be fair, what we've allowed is the undermining of trust to be monetised.
https://twitter.com/jason_kint/status/1420960217609773060
How did the US election get muddled into this?
Or are you suggesting that google should be appointed the sole arbiter of what is allowed to be said?
Not at all sure what your point is.
It's the same business model, be it elections or public health.
edit: my point – it’s shouting fire in a crowded theatre shit
And sometimes fire do indeed break out. It's a question of intent.
Last year I was getting shouted down when I suggested that we needed to be more careful about the potential for variants to arise. It was almost as if people wanted to believe that the principles of evolutionary biology didn't apply to this virus. Yet here we are with Delta and it won't be the last.
Just to be clear I believe that on the preponderance of circumstantial evidence (> 95% probability) that SARS-COVID-2 is a lab escape from GoF research conducted in Wuhan. Equally there remains a small but non-zero chance it has a true zoonotic origin. There is no proof for either hypothesis at present – and labelling either as 'misinformation' isn't justified.
And that we can also recognise that a lot of people have strong professional and political motives to ensure that no conclusive evidence for the lab leak hypothesis ever sees the light of day.
The bottom line. Explains the furious back-peddling from it's a hoax, vaccination is a plot panders to an audience of believers and drags in the advertisers, to listen up, it's real and vaccines work because the lawyers see legal consequences on the horizon.
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1421129356869570562
ditto this shit, for as long as the audience demands it
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1421204601294970884
btw, China's Chernobyl I reckon – an accident, a poor attempt to save face and manage their way out of the crisis and bingo, pandemic
Funny thing is I've never read or heard of a reputable vaccinologist (you know, someone who is a vaccine expert) who has refused to acknowledge, or "routinely dismissed and ignored" evidence that vaccines have adverse (side-)effects. And yet, if I'm interpreting your comment correctly, these 'dismissive vaccinologists' are thick on the ground.
Imho the vast majority of vaccinologists believe that, on balance, vaccines are a net benefit to human health. The Covid-19 vaccines, in particular the more effective ones, are also of net benefit to human health – one only has to look at how lethality of Covid-19 infections has declined dramatically in countries with moderate-to-high vaccine coverage. It really is that obvious, and that simple. Of course improved medical treatment(s), and less pressure on health systems, helps.
And, since you're dishing out the "too easy, and lazy" pejoratives, and insinuating that the global medical establishment is ignoring, dismissing and refusing to acknowledge the side-effects of COVID-19 vaccines, I've got another pejorative for you: 'alarmist'.
Hmmm…did you read the paper I referred to?
A review of the HPV vaccine safety by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) found no difference in side effects between vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals (Gee et al. 2016). In fact the CDC's Vaccine Adverse Event reporting System (VAERS) states that the HPV vaccine is very safe, and has not found any unexpected patterns in maternal or fetal outcomes (Moro et al. 2015).
These conclusions, however, are based on records that should be interpreted with care, especially when assessing cases with non-specific diagnosis, for which there is not a clear consensus on the diagnostic criteria (Goldenberg 2009) (Fig. 1).
Despite these pronouncements on the safety of HPV vaccine, regions in Colombia have reported a disproportionate number of neuropathic pain cases (with respect to the expected reactions declared by the pharmaceutical company producing Gardasil) (Sánchez-Gómez and Hernández-Flórez 2014).
It is important to note that the occurrence of demyelinating disease after vaccination, despite being low, is not negligible. This type of complication has been reported for multiple vaccines such as influenza, HPV, hepatitis A or B, rabies, measles, rubella, yellow fever, anthrax, meningococcus, and tetanus.
And so on until the end of the paper.
Perhaps we can agree that the vaccinologists of global note, or at least the greatest reach, are found at the CDC? The same CDC that effectively dismissed any link between the HPV vaccine and reported side effects.
As for 'perjoratives'…unintended, I assure you. PB wrote '…loose behaviour.' which triggered the recollection from way back when Gardasil was first rolled out. There was some that were concerned that this vaccine would give license to promiscuity, and some of that was from religious communities. It didn't help that it was in predominantly Catholic Latin America that there were (for reasons the linked to paper suggests requires investigation) a significant number of adverse effects. Add to that reports of a cluster of vaccine damaged girls from Ireland (which were considered 'worth it' in terms of the protection afforded the rest of the vaccine recipients) and the stage was well set for the narrative to emerge that HPV vaccine opposition emanated from the religious conservatives.
Very unfortunate, because it allowed the real reason for Gardasil hesitancy….the large numbers of girls significantly affected…to be sidelined.
And sidelined they were…as the paper I linked to suggests.
I appreciate that you want to help Rosemary. It boils down to who and what you trust. I trust expert scientific consensuses. They're not always right (who/what is), but (in my experience) they're right more often than not (including on vaccines), and these consensuses can evolve..
I believe it's more than just dumb luck that my trust in expert (evidence-based) consensuses has often been rewarded, and the placebo effect probably doesn't hurt either.
We can agree that reputable vaccinologists work at the CDC, and that they contribute to various national and international consensuses on the efficacy and safety of vaccines.
It's also seems way too easy to write-off vaccinologists as 'lazy'; maybe they, like you, also want to minimise (needless) harm and death in their communities, albeit in their own lazy ways.
A few lazy experts in NZ have somehow managed to assemble this well-referenced educational material on the HPV vaccine Gardasil 9.
https://www.medsafe.govt.nz/consumers/educational-material/gardasil9QandA.asp
Here's what they have to say about Gardasil's serious side-effects:
Only 7 deaths (out of 15,875 people)? Surely there must have been more – I smell a rat.
Totally agree Anker. Puberty always has been a period of emotional turbulence and vulnerability. We recognise this with among other things an age of consent, and strong social censuring of age inappropriate relationships where exploitation of immaturity is highly likely.
Exploiting this natural period of sexual volatility – that almost always resolves itself with time – to impose irreversible biological change with powerful puberty blocking drugs is in my view profoundly wicked. Objectively I'd consider this practise potentially more damaging than outright sex abuse.
Traditionally we expected parents to provide a framework of protection in this period – an often difficult and usually thankless task. With the slow undermining of the family as a basic social unit, and the virtual demolition of the role of fatherhood in particular, little of this applies any more. Any parent attempting to constrain the poor choices of their children can expect no support, and now the prospect of a criminal prosecution.
The logical destination of this trend is of course straight out of the dystopian novels – the dismantling of the nuclear family (a dream of the marxists right from the outset) and it's replacement with the apparatus of the state. If this seems a straw man – then consider that the discussion we are currently having on other threads around 'self identifying gender' would have been considered utter lunacy just a decade ago.
I would totally agree if I thought that this is what the legislation was intended to do, or would even rarely do as an unintended consequence. I'm not convinced on either of those points – because it is such a preposterous and unimaginable outcome. We've all seen plenty of alarmist over-reaction to legislation of this sort – from the homosexual law reform bill of the 1980's to the S58 repeal in the 2000's.
Fair enough – the conversation does tend to stray from the relatively narrow topic of the legislation. But on the other hand puberty blockers are a real thing … and again a mere decade ago would have been considered crazy talk.
Perhaps you should take time to investigate what has happened in other Western countries where those unintended consequences are indeed occurring,
The new law regarding non-conversion therapy is written in such a way that does not prevent this result.
Read the review into the Tavistock Clinic and have a look at the case of the father trying to stop his child from receiving puberty blockers.
Although we have an opportunity to learn from these 'unintended consequences' from overseas, we seem to be sleepwalking into passing similar laws without changes.
The post Sabine put up last night is worth a watch if you have the time, to see how badly wriiten laws and lacklustre safeguards can result in institutional harm.
https://twitter.com/imwatson91?lang=en
I think the comparison to the Homosexual Reform Bill is a lazy.false equivalence. There are concrete concerns about how the proposals are currently written which does mean they are bigoted or ill-advised.
AB have you listened to what Kris Faafoi said on the link I posted at the top of Open Mike? That seems to be exactly what he is saying. It might not mean five years in jail but it could.
Exactly. This is not some theoretical scaremongering. It is the responsible Minister saying without equivocation it is exactly what could happen … 5 years jail for a parent who intervenes when their child wants to self medicate. He thought this was a perfectly acceptable outcome.
I did – but I'm not convinced Faafoi actually knows or can say either way with any certainty. We have courts. Agreed that puberty blockers are a minefield and it would not surprise me if pharma companies turn out to be inventing medical conditions that just conveniently happen to be ' treatable' by drugs they have sitting on the shelf.
Yes, maybe we can start the internment camps on Rangitoto for all smokers and the slightly overweight next year too… Wouldn't that be lovely [sarc].. 🙄
You can always tell the totalitarians ideologues – they're really good at finding fresh scapegoats to punish.
AB that is a fair comment from you.
But I think it should be ruled out pronto! It will damage the party hugely and if they don't rule it out, they will be dead meat when the first test case comes to light.
By the way a father went to jail for six months in Canada for refusing to accept hibs daughters gender identity and objected to the treatment proposed. I think from memory she was 14 years old. Will find the link if you like.
Vaccination by itself is not a full control,physical health interventions still need to be both maintained and increased (say enhanced international travel restrictions eg Sydney).
https://twitter.com/yaneerbaryam/status/1420484703941971980
For sure there won't be a return to anything resembling pre-2020 normal.
But once everyone here that wants vaccination has received it, I for one won't have any appetite for level 3 or level 4 lockdowns to try to regain elimination status. Nor will I have any patience for requiring 2 weeks of managed isolation for all international arrivals including vaccinated citizens and permanent residents.
In general, I've been on the cautious side when it comes to restrictions. I thought opening a travel bubble with Australia was ill-advised and premature. I thought some of the lockdowns were lifted earlier than was wise.
Now consider, if someone as cautious as me won't support ongoing stringent efforts to maintain elimination after the widespread vaccination programme is complete, where will the balance of opinion lie across the rest of New Zealand?
The world had a window of 'elimination' strategy, last year and if the world would have gone into 'lockdown' as a collective it might have worked.
By now, there is no more 'elimination' strategy. There is a mitigating, keeping at bay, hoping to vaccinate many strategy as most if not all the issues that we went into lockdown are still the same.
No bed capacity in hospitals. Not enough ICU beds, if a huge outbreak were to occur i doubt we would have enough ventilators (yeah, we got a 100), not enough Staff -be that nurses, orderlies, cleaners, nurse aids, cooks etc to actually properly staff any of our hospitals in NZ – and the current RSV outbreak showed a light to that failure.
so the very best anyone can hope for atm, is that if you get the delta variant or any other after that that one may survive or better even, does not need to be hospitalised.
And that is what Israel is betting on. They don't care about the infections per se, but the death rate. If only a few die, they have 'won'. Here have a booster shot.
One of the most vaccinated countries as well… i guess it shows that they're not overly effective in stopping transmission so much for herd immunity.
Perhaps Israel is paying a price for trumpeting its fabulous vaccination rate.
Bitten on the bum because Delta has come from the Palestinians that they refused to provide vaccine for, contrary to their international obligation as an occupying power?
It's still the unvaccinated in Israel that are most of the cases. It's only a very few vaccinated but still vulnerable Israelis that are paying a price for the anti-social arsehole anti-vaxers among them.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/just-one-serious-covid-patient-in-israel-is-both-vaccinated-and-under-60-tv/
Despite their lower vaccination rates, Palestinian territories appear to be doing okay. Vaccine hesitancy among Israeli fundamentalists is the problem.
https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/palestinian-territories/
https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/israel/
The unvaccinated might be safer in jail from the superspreader vaccinated. Serious enough to force the CDC to change its guidelines.
During the outbreak investigation, researchers learned that the amount of virus in the noses of vaccinated people experiencing a breakthrough infection was the same as in an unvaccinated person — a worrying sign vaccinated people can spread the virus.
"This finding is concerning and was a pivotal discovery leading to CDC’s updated mask recommendation," said CDC Director Rochelle Walensky in a statement.
"This is a very concerning outbreak — pretty much a 'super spreader event,'" said Dr. Carlos Del Rio, executive associate dean and global health expert at the Emory School of Medicine.
again, anyone expecting this 'vaccine' to be a miracle cure also needs to ask themselves why they think that.
Yes, you can catch the flu after a flu shot, yes, you can transmit that flu. But if you have been vaccinated you might not die of it, or get ill enough to warrant staying home or in hosptial.
This is the same. AS for those that don't want the vaccination, don't. But for what its worth, i would make sure i have my last will in order. because not only can you catch it, transmit it, you have a very good chance dying of it. A much larger chance then those that have had the vaccine. So it appears.
What the latest from the CDC is saying is that those smug fully vaccinated free-ranging through the community are as much as, if not more of a risk to those who are not vaccinated. Not vaccinated for whatever reason. Including those who cannot be vaccinated, or should not be vaccinated.
The much anticipated badge of conformity that will be the Covid Vaccine Passport will be simply fluff and window dressing. 'Cos appearances.
funny that tho,
my friends in the US that are fully vaccinated 'smugs' free ranging, they don't. They understand the science, and are still masked when indoors, still don't hang out at sturgis, or Lollapallooza etc , don't go unmasked into mega churches for a bit of a pandemic god fix, etc.
The ones that are 'freeranging' are the unvaccinated ones, those that are bathed in the blood of Jesus, or that believe in crystal healing or the microsoft chipperys.
But as i said, don't vaccinate, just keep yourself to yourself, and make sure you have your will in order in case you have a will. Just you know, to cross all your t's and dot your i's. So far the vaccine is not mandatory and you get to freerange unvaccinated to your hearts contend.
The ones that are 'freeranging' are the unvaccinated ones
Evidence? Citation?
you might like this.
https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough-cases-data-from-the-states/
Also i would assume that you are currently free ranging unvaccinated.
Also i would assume that you are currently free ranging unvaccinated.
Why on earth would you assume that?
Because you don't strike me as a person who would volunteer for a vaccination.
Bearing in mind Sabine, the Pfizer so-called vaccine neither prevents infection or transmission of the virus.
By definition it is not a vaccine.
Now, having had the smallpox, polio, TB, DTP, vaccines…
bear in mind that i really don't care if or not you vaccinate.
Truly. It is your decision, and as i have stated before in regards to being pro or con, one makes ones decision and ones then lives with it and all the resulting consequences.
If you are in fact now vaccinated against covid, it would raise a lot of questions about your motivations for posting all kinds of vaccine misinformation here with the apparent goal of pushing people towards misinformed refusal of vaccination.
What vaccine misinformation? And be very, very specific.
Hmm…
But, of course, "the Pfizer so-called vaccine" is an actual vaccine – hard to believe you didn't know that.
Is that specific enough for you, Rosemary? Have I been "very, very specific"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/yes-vaccines-block-most-transmission-of-covid-19
Let's just look at your first contribution to this thread:
That statement implies that vaccinated are more of a threat to the unvaccinated than other unvaccinated. Utter misrepresentation. Vaccinated people are a much lower threat simply because they are much less likely to be infected and infectious. From your CDC link:
Following the link in that quote we find:
The piece linked below from Science Based Medicine is specific to covid, but the discussion about common anti-vax propaganda techniques covers several of your common misinformation techniques here on this site.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/cognitive-illusions-and-how-not-to-write-about-covid-19-and-children/
You want another example if your ongoing misinformation campaign? Here you go, your statement just above at 12:25
Here's the actual definition of vaccine:
Note that it does not have a range of efficacies which something needs to meet before it can be called a vaccine, merely that it is intended to stimulate an immune response. There has never been a vaccine that meets your misinformation incorrect definition, which appears to be an attempt to falsely discredit the Pfizer vaccine.
Even the smallpox vaccine, which successfully eradicated smallpox from this earth, only had about 95% effficacy. But this less than 100.000% efficacy was still enough for communities to achieve herd immunity and eventually end all chains of transmissions.
Yep, the vaccinated can still get it, and they can still spread it.
But the vaccinated are very strongly protected from severe illness, and they are almost completely protected from the virus killing them. So far, I have yet to see reports of long covid happening to the vaccinated.
It's a very striking contrast between the very high risk of death or long-term disability for the unvaccinated, versus the worst case scenario for most of the vaccinated being a minor short term inconvenient unpleasantness like a cold or mild flu.
Having trouble with links etc again on mobile… google search will find it…
Tennessee health department have recorded 27 deaths out of just over 1000 breakthrough cases.
this one here is quite telling.
https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/covid-19-vaccine-breakthrough-cases-data-from-the-states/
So Tennessee has recorded a total of about 1000 breakthrough cases, huh?
New infections in Tennessee are running around 1800 a day and climbing fast according to Worldometer.
1800 a day among the unvaccinated, versus 1000 cases in total among the vaccinated, looks to me like a damn good argument to get vaccinated.
Sure, was just interesting. There's still alot to be learnt and here's hoping we haven't made any serious mistakes…
We haven't made serious mistakes yet. Or maybe we did with allowing people back from Oz while Delta was ramping up, but we just got lucky (so far).
But the whole game changes once we achieve vaccination coverage of all those that want it. When that is achieved, there will be much more risk in being excessively restrictive to those that have done the right thing and get themselves vaccinated.
Emergence of new variants that are much more infectious to the vaccinated being the obvious known unknown in all of this, of course.
Hopefully we dont end up in a situation where the vaccines we rushed out have the effect of making a new strain worse.
The vaccination for Denghue fever had this effect so now its not given unless you have already had the virus.
I forget the technical term but it is something that has happened with a handful of vaccines.
So far I have yet to see anything that even hints it might be happening out in the field.
The potential antibody dependent enhancement problem with Dengvaxia was known and warned about before it was rolled out in the Philippines. The problems found could have been prevented by antibody testing the recipients before administering the vaccine, but the cost of that would have been quite a burden for a poor country like the Philippines. If you want more detail, this is a good piece:
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2017/12/sanofi-restricts-dengue-vaccine-downplays-antibody-enhancement
In the development of the covid vaccines, the possibility of antibody dependent enhancement was carefully considered. But it's fairly uncommon for diseases to behave that way, and there's been no evidence of it in other coronaviruses.
Nothing quite like a wee nudge from a dude who's worked for tobacco companies, gambling sites, and voter deterrence campaigns.
https://twitter.com/MikaelThalen/status/1421194741685706753
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1421191364776108042.html
Leaked chat logs reveal how the former lead psychologist for Cambridge Analytica has been working behind the scenes with a notorious anti-vaccine group in the U.K.
The chat records, provided to the Daily Dot by the activist collective DDoSecrets, detail efforts by HART (Health Advisory and Recovery Team), a self-described “group of highly qualified UK doctors, scientists, economists, psychologists and other academic experts,” to influence politicians on issues related to COVID-19.
https://www.dailydot.com/debug/leaked-chats-ex-cambridge-analytica-patrick-fagan-hart-group/
They never miss.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_0zFEtPbiA
If the baby killer boot fits…
//
https://twitter.com/JohnDanielMD/status/1420217996614766594
Can we infer from your post, that our failure to deal with the measles outbreak and the subsequent outbreak in Samoa make our Director general of Health and govt baby killers?
Because that was a disgrace.
Did our Director general of Health and govt actively undermine public health policy?
More a case of we didn't act appropriately for reasons unknown, especially given measles is highly infectious and the consequences are well known. But the result as we know was multiple deaths.
I flew to the States during the outbreak the terminal had multiple notices warning of a measles outbreak in New Zealand and if you are unvaccinated and feeling unwell to report to the nearest official immediately.
There was nothing about in Auckland international which was a massive fail.
Nothing to do with the failure to follow vaccine handling protocols and the Samoan governments failure to counter the country's abysmal vaccination rates, huh?
I'm still struggling to get my head around how a (presumably) trained nurse could do something so obviously disastrous as mixing (expired) muscle relaxant anaesthetic into the vaccine, rather than water.
I mean, sure the water was probably in a labelled bottle so might have been mistaken for a medication of some kind, needing to be sterile and all. If the water containers looked like medicine containers, that points to a systems failure with an obvious, easy, and cheap fix. Such as sterile water for dilutions is always in blue containers. But still …
The proprietor of my local beer shop sat down for lunch with Mrs and a guest and they all drank a caustic cleaning solution mistakenly served up as a cold drink. Mrs and the guest got a whiff and were hospitalised, badly burnt, but they survived. Poor old Bob had lost his sense of smell years ago and necked his. He never made it out of the back of the shop.
Apparently it had always been kept in the right place in an appropriate container, until the day it was transferred to a fizz bottle and ended up in the chiller…
If the baby killer boot fits ….
So in the light of your story above – do you have any evidence that anyone intentionally setting about killing Samoan babies?
Or as said below – is the blame game easier and more rewarding for you?
Thing is we knew about Samoa's vulnerability to measles and then sat on how hands.
The outbreak started here due tocour own low vaccination rates and was poorly managed leading to spread to Samoa.
Thats on NZ.
"Did our Director general of Health and govt actively undermine public health policy?"
Personally, I think the whole throwing blame around is massively counter productive to personal health policy.
If we're talking about building good systems, NZ did fail in some of its obligation to protect Samoa from our own measles outbreaks. If the same situation were to arise now, would closing the borders seem more acceptable?
If the same situation were to arise now, would closing the borders seem more acceptable?
Protecting the health of Samoa's people is much more the responsibility of Samoa's government than ours.
If the same situation were to arise today, I would expect the Samoan government to be much more active about trying to lift their vaccination rate back up and closing their borders to travelers coming from countries experiencing an outbreak. But personally, if somewhere I wanted to visit was willing to accept me, but our government prevented that because of a small disease outbreak in s small somewhat closed community within New Zealand, I would be absolutely outraged.
Just like in our current situation we have severely restricted movements across our inbound border – to protect our people. Nobody anywhere else in the world is trying to stop people leaving to travel to NZ to protect NZ from an outbreak. At least not that I know of.
The general belief is that we, individually and collectively, learn from past experiences to better predict consequences (outcomes and impacts). Taiwan was arguable better prepared than most because of past pandemics. NZ may have learned from the measles experiences.
Public health policy is more than just a bunch of direct ‘technocratic’ measures; it also includes research as well as education through communication and giving clear, consistent, and carefully explained guidelines and instructions. However, it never operates in isolation, least of all when things become heavily politicised and polarised.
I was thinking how as the outbreak in Samoa was starting it wasn’t even a consideration to close borders. Covid changed that. I don’t know if lessons learned from Samoa and measles included border closure options.
there’s a lot to unpack in that, but I think our polarisation on vaccines doesn’t serve us particularly well.
Polarised debate is an oxymoron, not even a euphemism for a shouting contest across a bottomless and unbridgeable divide. Our politicians are our role models and as soon as they show a sign of deviating from the unwritten book of public opinion, they are hauled over hot coals and condemned to eternal damnation by pundits/voters. Those same voters who pride themselves standing up for the underdog, natural justice, and all that other virtue shit.
For what it's worth this very recent WaPo article based on new CDC document is absolutely worth a read:
This article is something of a breakthrough in the msm – in that it starts to acknowledge what we've really been up against all along.
Dude's picked over the bones.
https://twitter.com/Bob_Wachter/status/1420974027112292354
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1420974027112292354.html
AB have you listened to what Kris Faafoi said on the link I posted at the top of Open Mike? That seems to be exactly what he is saying. It might not mean five years in jail but it could.
I'll bet Faafoi refuse to do another interview on the subject. He's apparently to 'busy' to be interviewed on the hate speech legislation and thats one of the most contentious and complicated peices of legislation in recent times.
It really is a bad joke.
It does seem unfortunate, though not yet necessarily on the scale of the antismacking debacle. Much depends on whether the rule change is instantiated among people, rather than remaining an object of abstract political contention – which can be quite damaging enough.
The position of the courts in the Tavistock case seems to be that under sixteens are not likely to be able to give informed consent in respect of a treatment as contentious as puberty blocking. They at least are in no hurry to rush in where angels fear to tread. Not so whoever is boosting this policy evidently.
https://www.twitter.com/NewshubNZ/status/1421693369483350024
https://twitter.com/wekatweets/status/1421711410678042628?s=21
Still a bit of a gap to close, but if anyone can it's Seymour.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_New_Zealand_general_election#Nationwide_polling
There's blood in the water…
One thing is always certain – NZ voters elect the governments they deserve.
Flag referendum anyone?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/319696/pm%27s-regret-that-flag-referendum
Our PM is covered by a "mat" in a ceremony of apology for the dawn-raids – covered by a mat!!
She's a phenomenon!
"The Green Party’s 11 seats would easily get it over the line into governing."
Stuff says.
Would those in our parliment care as much about vaccine passports? I'm not sure I can see anything other than the fresher MPs going with the flow, mores the pity.
https://twitter.com/GilbertCollard/status/1420802177698877440
At the last census 40,000 homes in Auckland were empty. That's tens of thousands of kids without proper housing.
Let that sink in before obsessing over niche politics like gender arguments.
Amateur landlordism is the real social disease.
Funny that you should say that. Apparently, most of those ghost houses in Auckland were just a bad dream.
Yep, the similar number was brandished during the Key years, and we had at the time an opposition party who said it was gonna fix it.
Maybe its not the amateur landlords that are the problem but the Red/Blue coin of NZ that refuses to regulate the housing ownership market.
Here an article from 2019
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/05/bulging-at-the-seams-auckland-a-super-city-struggling-with-its-own-success
From 2016
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/rise-of-the-ghost-homes-more-than-33000-auckland-dwellings-officially-classified-empty/3JXSEQNUK36SBG7UBQMJ3VUPGU/
from 2015
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/-ghost-houses-hit-auckland-renting-market-6338478.html
I think one can conclude that this issue is now bi-partisan.
But then women having an issue that they are worried about and talk about is not a big deal, and really can't they just not understand what the real issues are right? Because we can only ever be concerned about one thing at a time.
A lot of current commentary at the Standard is centred around gender issues.
Perhaps that's because no-one cares about the rest. People are selfish. They do tend to promote their own concerns. People in warm, dry homes can afford to have other concerns.
My concern is housing. I think it's the most important issue out there.
Sue me.
yes, it is currently in the news thus people discuss it.
As for the homeless and unhouses, and those 23000+ on waiting lists surely the government is gonna do something once its got the hate bill done. Surely. Any effn day now. Cause they said so. Right? Anb besides who does not like a bill that risks criminalising parents for maybe refusing to jack their kids up with puperty blockers and undergo permantent surgery in the form of double masectomies at a young age. I mean they did campaign on that? Right?
Yeah, nah, they campaigned on fixing the housing market and keepin NZ safe. Right? Lol.
Pushing through reform is difficult stuff, no doubt. Some people agree with some reform and disagree with other reform.
Setting people up to be criminalized for not letting a child be on puperty blockers willy nilly, setting 'women' and 'lesbians' up for a criminal charge if they refuse to allow transwomen in to their own spaces or to see them as women (aka Gendercrime) is not 'reform', its bullshit, and it is wrong.
And again, I am so very happy to not have voted for this lot, and i will be even happier next time when i will again not vote for them.
Every day again, these people remind me that it was the correct thing to do.
You've said who you are not voting for, repeatedly. But not who you are voting for.
Hope it's not Seymour…
it will be as always the least offensive choice, as that is pretty much all that is there to vote for. Offensive and not so offensive.
The least ‘offensive’ (honestly?) would be not to vote at all and ‘virtue-signal’ that as loud and often as possible on The Standard.
Hate speech, gender identity, flags, pandas, housing
odd one out?
The chair of Australia's only listed water trader boasts about the flaws in the market and the profits to be made when the next drought hits…but three waters bad.
https://www.michaelwest.com.au/going-nuts-murray-darlings-unbelievably-beautiful-story-for-investors-a-nightmare-for-farmers-environment/