Open mike 01/11/2014

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1. phillip ure 1

   1 November 2014 at 7:19 am

   the heritage of american/nz occupation of afghanistan..

   ..plentiful/cheap-heroin..

   ..standing tall..?..nz..?

   http://whoar.co.nz/2014/the-fruits-of-a-60-billion-u-s-expenditure-in-afghanistan-are-now-secret-comment-the-onemajor-resounding-success-from-the-ten-year-american-nz-occupation-of-afghanistan/
   • The Al1en 1.1

     1 November 2014 at 7:32 am

     “nz occupation of afghanistan..”

     lol

     Facts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_production_in_Afghanistan

     Afghanistan has been the greatest illicit opium producer in the entire world, ahead of Burma (Myanmar), the “Golden Triangle”, and Latin America since 1992, excluding the year 2001.

     Warlord period (1989–1994):
     When the Soviet Army was forced to withdraw in 1989, a power vacuum was created. Various Mujahideen factions started fighting against each other for power. With the discontinuation of Western support, they resorted ever more to poppy cultivation to finance their military existence.

     Rise of the Taliban (1994–2001):
     During the Taliban rule, Afghanistan saw a bumper opium crop of 4,500 metric tons in 1999.

     And so on and so on
     • adam 1.1.1

       1 November 2014 at 10:10 am

       And yet with us and the USA involved in the “war on drugs” it is still the world’s powerhouse of heroin production. I know I’ve seen many pictures with US soldiers protecting poppy fields – just type in that google search. Also if you goto American soldiers pages, you will find the average G.I is quite pissed off about that fact being treated as a factoid.
       • The Al1en 1.1.1.1

         1 November 2014 at 10:35 am

         In the wiki link there’s a section on the present war, which contains info such as…

         “Former U.S. State Department Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary for the Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs Thomas Schweich, in a New York Times article dated July 27, 2007, asserts that opium production is protected by the government of Hamid Karzai as well as by the Taliban, as all parties to political conflict in Afghanistan as well as criminals benefit from opium production, and, in Schweich’s opinion, the U.S. military turns a blind eye to opium production as not being central to its anti-terrorism mission.”

         Where ‘occupation’ is funny, I think the main thing to bear in mind is ‘heritage’, if that’s even the right word as it doesn’t make much sense, ignores the historical Afghan drug trade in a rush to condemn.
2. Manuka - Ancient Order of Rawsharks 2

   1 November 2014 at 7:19 am

   This explains a lot.

   An official recommendation was made in the UK in 1982 for “psychopaths” to be put in charge of the govt, in the event of a nuclear holocaust. I guess they have been running trials on this, including here in “the colonies”, and we’re the test guinea pigs.
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11351566
   http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/psychopaths-should-be-put-charge-after-nuclear-war-secret-government-report-1472551
   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2815247/Put-psychopaths-charge-Secret-plans-reveal-bizarre-ideas-run-country-event-nuclear-holocaust.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
   • Manuka - Ancient Order of Rawsharks 2.1

     1 November 2014 at 7:37 am

     And apparently there would be ample recruits from corporations:
     “Interestingly, research indicates people with psychopathic character traits are disproportionately to be found in the upper echelons of the corporate world. According to the Harvard Business Review they are bred for success by being naturally “cunning, manipulative, untrustworthy, unethical, parasitic, and utterly remorseless. There’s nothing they won’t do, and no one they won’t exploit, to get what they want”. http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/psychopaths-should-be-put-charge-after-nuclear-war-secret-government-report-1472551
   • Murray Rawshark 2.2

     1 November 2014 at 2:10 pm

     The idea that psychopaths could be put in charge of some areas, not the whole government, was suggested by one person involved in the study. It was rejected.
     • Manuka - Ancient Order of Rawsharks 2.2.1

       1 November 2014 at 7:26 pm

       I was being facetious when I suggested NZ was a “trial run”. Still, those “qualities of a psychopath” seem to have thrived in some governments around the world in the last few years. There is a distinct lack of empathy in many of the policies, and a lack of moral code can be seen in the denials and cover-ups of what is actually being done.
       The original reason given: “(Psychopaths) are very good in crises, as they have no feelings for others, no moral code, and tend to be very intelligent and logical.”
3. greywarshark 3

   1 November 2014 at 7:45 am

   The way that Nacts steer and use the economy for personal gain, I have realised is just a larger version of the asset strippers like Ron Brierley who buy up companies which have under-valued assets that the financial speculators know they can hock off, possibly for more than the purchase price. So they strip the company down to its bones nearly, and sack lots of workers and clean up. The company is usually finished or struggles on in another form.

   I have the idea that to survive for NZs we need to set up local trading entities and have internal, local dollars. It’s not new, but to succeed it has to be run thoughtfully, using good economics, and efficiently. I’ll think more on this later. Perhaps anyone who has good information, is interested would like to put their thoughts up on Open Mike. Eventually we could put up a post and draw it all together, and then with its own post it can be drawn from the archives and added to over time.

   We could prepare a paper on this then we could take this idea to local bodies and work with the few who are willing to trial it, our version of it which has been around as Green Dollars but in a rather amorphous state I thought when I was in it. We would be watching and monitoring it to see how it goes and making changes as needed. That is something practical and would enable an area to keep the benefits of work and finance in their area.

   I will be away for a few days but will catch up when I’m back. Pleae put grey or greywarshark in any comments and I’ll do a
   search and read them all and not miss them.
   • Manuka - Ancient Order of Rawsharks 3.1

     1 November 2014 at 8:02 am

     Here is a link to local currency trading in the UK and (via click through links) in Europe:
     http://www.neweconomics.org/issues/entry/community-currencies
   • Aerobubble 3.2

     1 November 2014 at 10:01 am

     Its easy to be a free marketeer when the illusion of a free market is maintained by the iron fist of a nation state. Worse. When the nats actually depend upon a risk premium brought from distorts with OZ, a CGT keeps our housing bubble afloat. If we only had a free press. We’d all see quickly how interventionist the nats really are. A risk premium buffers the manager class from risk, as its written in. Its like the tolls, levies, charges, that citizens used to pay wealth land owners as indentured serf has been rolled up and legislated uniformly across the nz economy for the good of private global wealth.
4. Sable 4

   1 November 2014 at 9:12 am

   This what Keys and his scumbag TPPA mates want for once upon a time clean green New Zealand:

   http://rt.com/op-edge/201155-report-fracking-danger-cancer/
5. Morrissey 5

   1 November 2014 at 9:23 am

   All of the white guys were edited out!
   Why you shouldn’t share that racist NYC catcalling video

   On Tuesday a video secretly documenting street harassment in NYC went viral. It currently has over 15 million views on YouTube, and has been widely lauded online and in the press.

   The issue this video documents; street harassment, and the larger context of oppression it is part of are obviously of huge importance. This is partly why I was so disgusted at what I found when I started looking into the man who made the video. It soon turned out that Rob Bliss, who directed it, may be working to a different agenda than those actually concerned with fighting for liberation.

   The following tweets detail what I found out and why it matters. I apologise for the gratuitous swearing, I was, and still am, very angry that an experience which ruins countless people’s lives is being used for the benefit of a rich white man. …..

   Read more……
   https://storify.com/Aut_Omnia/why-you-shouldnt-share-the-nyc
   • weka 5.1

     1 November 2014 at 9:35 am

     Morrissey, I had to read to the end of your comment to realise it wasn’t actually your comment. You obviously know how to use html tags, so why not use them properly so that it’s clear you aren’t just stealing other people’s words.

     People can watch the video in the context of understanding why there is also a racism issue. It’s called learning how to talk about racism and sexism at the same time in a racist and sexist society.
     • Morrissey 5.1.1

       1 November 2014 at 9:39 am

       Sorry about that, weka. I should have made that clear.
       • weka 5.1.1.1

         1 November 2014 at 9:56 am

         ok, cheers
6. Colonial Rawshark 6

   1 November 2014 at 9:29 am

   Dunedin South: Andersons Bay-Peninsula Branch of NZLP hits the news again

   This time in the Dominion Post/Stuff.

   Meanwhile, an invitation to an ‘‘informal social catch-up’’ with Little and Mahuta was this week circulated by Richman Wee, the chairman of the Anderson’s Bay-Peninsula branch in Dunedin South. The branch has in the past been at loggerheads with local MP Clare Curran, who backs Grant Robertson.

   It is seen as strongly pro-Cunliffe, and Curran had claimed it was resurrected to undermine her re-election, though branch officials denied that.

   Wee’s email said contact addresses ‘‘were provided to me last month by David Cunliffe’s campaign team when I had agreed to be a point of contact’’.

   It said of the four nominees David Parker and Robertson had strong ties with Dunedin, but the other two may not be as well-known in the city.

   Wee stressed he was issuing the invitations as a general member of the party.

   He included a flyer from Mahuta and a message from Little.

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10687075/Cunliffe-loyalists-back-Little
   • weka 6.1

     1 November 2014 at 9:32 am

     Keep up the good work 🙂
     • Colonial Rawshark 6.1.1

       1 November 2014 at 9:42 am

       Apparently every Labour MP in caucus knows about our lovely active branch now 🙂
       • weka 6.1.1.1

         1 November 2014 at 9:58 am

         heh. That’ll keep a few on their toes and some others in their reactionaly denial.
       • mickysavage 6.1.1.2

         1 November 2014 at 9:12 pm

         Gee I read the story and I was astounded, repeat astounded. Apparently New Lynn supports Andrew Little. The next thing they will say is that Wellington Central supports Grant Robertson …
         • Anne 6.1.1.2.1

           1 November 2014 at 9:48 pm

           Robertson said volunteers had organised informal meetings for him to have ‘‘a proper chin wag’’ with members.

           Gee, this is even more astounding. Little supporters are holding informal meetings to support Little, and Robertson supporters are holding informal meeting to support Robertson. I mean this is unprecedented. It’ll wipe everything else off the front pages and the news channels won’t it?
           • Bill Drees 6.1.1.2.1.1

             2 November 2014 at 1:20 pm

             Robertson had a meeting in the west the previous week. That fantastic powerhouse Darien Fenton must have pissed off Robertson. It was Darien, outraged at Robertson’s presence in her beloved West, instigated the Nanaia & Andrew visit.
             • Olwyn …

               2 November 2014 at 1:26 pm

               That doesn’t seem right Bill. Darien has declared her support for Robertson here on the Standard:

               http://thestandard.org.nz/leadership-carnage-crisis-farce-civil-war/#comment-919333
               • Bill Drees …

                 2 November 2014 at 1:47 pm

                 Olwyn. I’m shocked that anyone would suggest that Darien would be backing two Wellington bureaucrats over a Trade Unionist and an excellent Maori Woman candidate who also has lots of Union support. Darien is first and foremost a trade unionist.
                 • Olwyn …

                   2 November 2014 at 2:31 pm

                   Darien’s words, not mine.
       • Not a PS Shark Sashimi 6.1.1.3

         2 November 2014 at 2:39 pm

         Every electorate needs a constructive group who can challenge the status quo.
         A few electorates need a group who will grow the organisation despite the attempts of a defensive MP to keep it small and controllable.
         Electorates that have no Labour MP have the opportunity to be excellent vibrant organisations.

         The changes we made recently to the constitution failed to effect a Part Vote driven organisation. If we get to the stage of having a functional Caucus we should look at further constitutional changes.
   • left for deadshark 6.2

     1 November 2014 at 10:41 am

     Robertson what is wrong with this man?
     that little spiel in the Dom post.I think hes a f..k..g Hypocrite.
   • Clemgeopin 6.3

     1 November 2014 at 10:49 am

     I cast my votes last night.

     Mahuta-1st
     Little-2nd

     The other two got my 3rd and 4th preference.
     • left for deadshark 6.3.1

       1 November 2014 at 10:59 am

       Good call,I meet Nanaia for the first time at our little gathering,very impressed.A leader like her could well be the Saviour of the party an with Andrews organizing skills,may well see labour relevant,whose again.
       • Clemgeopin 6.3.1.1

         1 November 2014 at 11:51 am

         Little and Robetson I think need some time and experience in government administration and ministerial positions first. Parker’s put down of Cunliffe on TV after the election disqualified him for top position to me. Mahuta has experience, wisdom, mana and straight up no bullshit kind of nice personality which made me give her my top billing. I think with the three years of preparation and people based fair policies, she will be able to take on Key and help Labour get a very good party vote at the next election in my opinion. labour has nothing much to lose, but everything to gain with her as leader. But whoever is finally chosen by the majority will certainly get my full loyalty and support.
         • left for deadshark 6.3.1.1.1

           1 November 2014 at 12:09 pm

           @ Clemgeopin,
           100 % 😉
           • Clemgeopin 6.3.1.1.1.1

             1 November 2014 at 1:30 pm

             And another point is that Mahuta is an intelligent and a well educated person. It would be great to have a Maori woman as the leader of this great Labour party. That would be very cool and so awesome, in my opinion. I think people will support her not simply because she is Maori or a woman, but because she has lots of good characteristics and merit.
         • ankerawshark 6.3.1.1.2

           1 November 2014 at 5:55 pm

           100% Clem
7. Aerobubble 7

   1 November 2014 at 10:07 am

   There is no such thing as a bad employer, just ungrateful employees. The gain for being more flexible, in losing breaks? Trickle down as the economy gets more efficient. Bonuses for employers of course rise as they pocket the savings. Who said a fair day wage can ever match the remunirations, the managers are over paid, the employees are locked out of profits from the vaguies of the market yet take the toil on the downside, how ungrateful.
8. Paul 8

   1 November 2014 at 10:17 am

   How We’re Lied To About Food.
   
9. joe90 9

   1 November 2014 at 10:18 am

   Dirty politics was the dry run.
   /

   .

   WASHINGTON — If the oil and gas industry wants to prevent its opponents from slowing its efforts to drill in more places, it must be prepared to employ tactics like digging up embarrassing tidbits about environmentalists and liberal celebrities, a veteran Washington political consultant told a room full of industry executives in a speech that was secretly recorded.

   The blunt advice from the consultant, Richard Berman, the founder and chief executive of the Washington-based Berman & Company consulting firm, came as Mr. Berman solicited up to $3 million from oil and gas industry executives to finance an advertising and public relations campaign called Big Green Radicals.

   The company executives, Mr. Berman said in his speech, must be willing to exploit emotions like fear, greed and anger and turn them against the environmental groups. And major corporations secretly financing such a campaign should not worry about offending the general public because “you can either win ugly or lose pretty,” he said.

   http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/31/us/politics/pr-executives-western-energy-alliance-speech-taped.html
   • Colonial Rawshark 9.1

     1 November 2014 at 11:22 am

     Chevron attempts to buy a local Calif. election campaign in order to silence critics of a major oil refinery.

     If Chevron wins it will consider the $3M it is spending a bargain.

     http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/27175-how-to-buy-a-city-chevron-spends-3-million-on-local-california-election-to-oust-refinery-critics?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TRUTHOUT+%28t+r+u+t+h+o+u+t+|+News+Politics%29
10. phillip ure 10

    1 November 2014 at 11:03 am

    mike moore on the nation proved he still cannot string a legible sentence together..

    ..let alone express a coherent thought..
    • Skinny 10.1

      1 November 2014 at 1:50 pm

      He needs to call it a day, hard work understanding him I agree, thought it may have been my hangover this morning. Just another trougher, his little joke about being unavailable to lead the Labour Party was a wasted opportunity to talk them all up. Instead he talked himself up, no change there as I recall.
      • phillip ure 10.1.1

        1 November 2014 at 1:58 pm

        he did set the benchmark ..

        ..on quite a few different levels..
        • Lindsey 10.1.1.1

          1 November 2014 at 2:54 pm

          Oh yes, I knitted whole jerseys while having to listen to his tedious speeches. He went on, and on, and on, – you got sick of playing “count the cliches” and many people just nodded off. I saw him speak in Glen Innes during the Tamaki by-election in 1991. OK for the first 10 minutes and then people just voted with their feet.
          • phillip ure 10.1.1.1.1

            1 November 2014 at 2:59 pm

            the thing that has always astounded me about moore..

            ..is his seeming unawareness of what a bumbling fool he is..
    • Jenny Kirk 10.2

      1 November 2014 at 9:50 pm

      Has he ever been able to express a coherent thought, PU ? I haven’t heard one yet.
      • phillip ure 10.2.1

        2 November 2014 at 6:12 am

        @ jenny..

        ..nah.!..he’s zero for zero…

        ..he gets points for consistancy..

        ..but that’s about it..
11. Stephanie Rodgers 11

    1 November 2014 at 11:05 am

    Video is up of all the candidates’ speeches at the Nelson hustings on Wednesday:
    http://youtu.be/ZmKqNpqn3jc
    • swordfish 11.1

      1 November 2014 at 11:56 am

      I have a number of problems with Robertson and (apparently unlike many pundits) I remain concerned about how Labour’s many socially-conservative supporters (not only in South Auckland) will react to a Gay Leader of the Party.

      But I have to say – he’s clearly far and away the most articulate, animated and compelling speaker of the 4 candidates.
      • weka 11.1.1

        1 November 2014 at 12:04 pm

        What evidence is there that a leader of Labour who happens to be gay would be a problem for South Auckland voters?
        • Chooky 11.1.1.1

          1 November 2014 at 7:37 pm

          Grant Robertson ain’t no Glenn Greenwald
          • weka 11.1.1.1.1

            1 November 2014 at 7:44 pm

            Lol, does that make a difference?
12. RedBaronCV 12

    1 November 2014 at 11:16 am

    Looks like the Greens are the new official beneficiary of two track politics.
    Fran in the Herald running a big beat up over whether foreign leaders should address parliament during a session or after it has officially risen (green preference) – nothing wrong with after hours Fran – they don’t have to stop for a tea break you know.
    John Armstrong going on about blue green politics trying to drive a wedge where it really doesn’t exist. A sustainable steady state economy will involve sharing those resources. same coin two sides.
13. Penny Bright 13

    1 November 2014 at 11:53 am

    Transparency International, and their bogus ‘Corruption Perception Index’, (which New Zealand traditionally tops) EXPOSED for the crock it truly is:

    “One strand of research is legitimised by the Corruption Perceptions Index published by Transparency International.

    This offers an almost racialized account of corruption where individuals and countries from Africa, Asia, South and Central America are classified as most corrupt, and countries from the Northern Hemisphere or those embracing neoliberal values are portrayed as least corrupt.

    Transparency International’s favourite solution to urge liberalisation of trade, privatisation of state owned enterprises and a general roll back of the state.

    The difficulty is that the networks of tax havens, banks, lawyers, accountants and other experts associated with the movement of gains from corruption are primarily located in the western world.

    That access is not occasionally rented but is deeply institutionalized. … ”

    http://www.journals.elsevier.com/accounting-forum/call-for-papers/special-issue-on-corruption/

    Corruption has become a feature of daily press headlines.

    It is commonly associated with secretive attempts to rent favourable access to economic and political processes either directly or through intermediaries. This may appear as bribery, fraud, abuse and manipulation, giving unfair advantage to some at the expense of others.

    The practices categorised as ‘corruption’ can skew political and economic decisions and erode the space for citizens to express their preferences.

    Public concern about such processes has heightened as the state and policymaking institutions are increasingly colonised by economic elites and corporate interests, and distinctions between ‘private’ and ‘public’ spheres continue to be reformulated. Popular media often portrays corrupt practices as unjust, unfair and unethical which can negatively affect distribution of income and wealth, competition, economic growth, human rights, equality, citizen participation and social stability.

    One strand of research is legitimised by the Corruption Perceptions Index published by Transparency International.

    This offers an almost racialized account of corruption where individuals and countries from Africa, Asia, South and Central America are classified as most corrupt, and countries from the Northern Hemisphere or those embracing neoliberal values are portrayed as least corrupt.

    Transparency International’s favourite solution to urge liberalisation of trade, privatisation of state owned enterprises and a general roll back of the state. The difficulty is that the networks of tax havens, banks, lawyers, accountants and other experts associated with the movement of gains from corruption are primarily located in the western world. That access is not occasionally rented but is deeply institutionalized.

    Corruption is not a prerogative of developing countries; it is routinized in almost every sphere in developed countries as corporations compete to maximise shareholder wealth, meet profit targets and increase performance related executive remuneration.

    Daily media reports point to the capture of legislators by elites, tax avoidance, price fixing, cartels, money laundering,mis-selling of financial products, manipulation of interest and foreign exchange rates, fake sales by supermarkets, selling horsemeat as beef and hacking of phones by journalists, to mention just a few examples.

    Companies continue to publish glossy social responsibility reports as they offer no ex-ante admission of any of the anti-social practices.

    Accounting standards do not require any explanation of the profits from corruption.

    Accountancy firms are key players in corruption.

    As auditors, they are expected to notice red flags and draw attention to anti-social practices but there is little incentive to do so.

    They are commercial organisations serving their clients.

    They have also demonstrated their corruptibility by willingly participating in money laundering, tax avoidance/evasion schemes, bribery, cartels, insider trading and even falsification of financial statements to enable clients to camouflage the financial state of their affairs.

    We would welcome papers using any research methodology on any area related to the study of corruption.
    ……………………………..
    ______________________________________________________________________________________

    Well – the more Auckland Council try to single me out and ‘neck-stamp’ me as a PROVEN ‘anti-corruption whistle-blower’ then the more EVIDENCE I’ll have for a paper I hope to submit on how the Auckland ‘Supercity for the 1%’ was a corrupt corporate coup, and how the unelected Council Controlled Organisations have been the mechanism for the corporate takeover of the Auckland region.

    And – how the lack of transparency in where public rates monies are being spent on private sector consultants and contractors, combined with a lack of mandatory, and publicly available ‘Registers of Interest’ for those responsible for awarding those contracts, is fraught with potential (and actual) corrupt ‘conflicts of interest’.

    Penny Bright
    Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference 2009

    Attendee: Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference 2010

    Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference 2013

    Attendee: G20 Anti-Corruption Conference 2014

    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate (polling 4th with 11,723 votes)
14. karol 14

    1 November 2014 at 12:33 pm

    Today’s Dominion Post (pC2) has an article focused on left wing blogs. It has The Standard as top of its list of left wing blogs, and has several quotes from Lynn – also quotes from Martyn Bradbury.

    It features On The Left as the most promising new leftie blog, with some comments from Stephanie Rodgers and Asher.

    The article examines whether left wing blogs are a help of a hindrance to the political left. It includes Clayton Cosgrove’s attack on TS, and Lynn’s response.

    The article also outlines WO/Slater’s involvement in Dirty Politics, and ponders on why the revelations didn’t have any impact on the elections.

    Basically it’s about left wing bloggers being a bit reflective about their role post elections.

    On the top left blogs list, it has these descriptions (in order listed):

    A long running Left-wing blog with multiple authors often writing under pseudonyms. Has a lively and argumentative comments section

    The Daily Blog:

    Launched by Martyn Bradbury last year with an all stars line up of Left-wing writers some of whom have moved on. But John Minto, Chris Trotter and Martyn Bradbury remain.

    On The Left

    the New addition. Another multiple author blog, with a hopeful and positive mood

    In positions 4 and 5 it has, in order DimPost & No Right Turn.

    The article does cover Public Address and focuses on the pseudonym issue – saying On the Left aims to use real names as much as possible.
    • KJT 14.1

      1 November 2014 at 12:46 pm

      They should be asking why?
      In a country which purports to have freedom of speech, left wing bloggers, feel they have to use pseudonyms to protect them-selves, when right wing bloggers, no matter how radical, or abusive, can say what they like without fear of consequences.
      • karol 14.1.1

        1 November 2014 at 12:53 pm

        I also think they over emphasised the use of real names on On The Left.

        Their comments policy stresses respecting people’s chosen usernames.

        I note also, that most of OTL authors are politically active offline using their real name.

        I sometimes ponder whether to use my real name. Generally, I am not keen to do that while I am still do paid work, in a totally non-political role.
        • Stephanie Rodgers 14.1.1.1

          1 November 2014 at 1:55 pm

          I haven’t seen the article, but would definitely say that the fact OTL has a lot of bloggers using their real names isn’t deliberate. We’re more than happy to have pseudonymous bloggers and commentators.
          • karol 14.1.1.1.1

            1 November 2014 at 2:25 pm

            After some discussion of “anonymous” bloggers (Cosgrove) and then some coverage of Dirty Politics and the need for transparency and credibility, there’s this:

            Goldman says that On The Left will use real names unless there’s a reason not to and a strict moderating policy will keep the trolls out.
            • Stephanie Rodgers 14.1.1.1.1.1

              1 November 2014 at 4:33 pm

              Yes. Which means we don’t have a problem with pseudonyms. And right now all our authors use their real names (to an extent, not all have their full legal first-name-and-surname published).
              • karol …

                1 November 2014 at 4:41 pm

                Yeah. I think it’s the context in which the quote was used, that the article is highlighting the real names thing. As I said, I thought the article overemphasised it – it’s really not much different from the policy of the Standard. And it hardly needed saying, IMO.
        • Jenny Kirk 14.1.1.2

          1 November 2014 at 10:07 pm

          Could you put a link to the Dom Post story on pg C2 please Karol – I can’t find it otherwise. Thanks.
      • mickysavage 14.1.2

        1 November 2014 at 2:38 pm

        Funny it should not be online …
      • b waghorn 14.1.3

        1 November 2014 at 6:35 pm

        +100 I would love to use my real name but after reading DP I decided to stay on the cautious side due to having a wife and child and I don’t class myself as radical
    • weka 14.2

      1 November 2014 at 2:28 pm

      apart from the pseudonyms issue, it sounds like a reasonable article.

      “The article also outlines WO/Slater’s involvement in Dirty Politics, and ponders on why the revelations didn’t have any impact on the elections.”

      Maybe it did have an impact and we just can’t see it eg the non-vote might have decreased more without DP revelations and subsequent coverage.
      • karol 14.2.1

        1 November 2014 at 2:33 pm

        It is a pretty reasonable article, and a rare, strong and mostly positive focus on left wing blogs.

        I find it curious it doesn’t have Public Address in its top 5 left blogs. Especially so as in the article itself McLaughlin (Dim post) says he’s taking a break from blogging.
        • felix 14.2.1.1

          2 November 2014 at 6:49 am

          Maybe because it’s mostly about Russell Brown’s cat’s new phone.
      • karol 14.2.2

        1 November 2014 at 3:29 pm

        Actually the line the article uses to explain why Dirty Politics didn’t have traction – is because there was too much squabbling online, for which it names the Standard, Lynn and Greg Presland (who is associated with Cunliffe).

        The article asks why DP gained no traction in the final weeks of the election:

        What does that imply about the efficacy of journalism?

        Or was the left undermined by its own bloggers? Was the squabbling and bickering on the internet symptomatic of the left’s general disarray and lack of discipline?

        Labour MP Clayton Cosgrove seemed to think so. In the wake of the historic defeat, after being attacked anonymously online by someone who turned out to be David Cunliffe’s wife, Karen Price, Cosgrove said he wanted to see “appropriate discipline” in the Left-wing blogosphere.

        He singled out the Standard and named bloggers Lynn Prentice and Greg Presland. Presland is closely associated with Cunliffe. Prentice responded quickly on the blog, calling Cosgrove’s comments “ill-informed and outright silly” and claiming that he is the most “destabilising” MP in the Labour caucus. Pot, kettle, black.

        With scenes like these it is no wonder Key was able to neutralise the impact of Dirty Politcs by saying Labour has its own secret relationships with bloggers. That argument caught on with the public.

        But Goldman calls that a “false equivalence” and Prentice agrees.

        “Unlike Slater’s or Farrar’s professional efforts on behalf of National, we don’t get paid either directly or indirectly for our volunteering to work for politicians or writing blogs and never have, ” Prentice says.

        The blog is about serving an audience and community rather than a party.

        “Most politician and wannabe politicians are rather peripheral to that, which is I suspect something that they find hard to live with.”

        Now it’s great they gave Lynn the final word on that.

        But the whole line about The Standard being responsible for Dirty Politics not get any traction with the public during the election is nonsense. And I don’t recall any lack of discipline in TS posts during the election. What I do remember is a lot of posts on the truth of “Dirty Politics”, and many countering the “Labour/left of it too” line of argument.

        The article makes it seem like the Cosgrove-Lynn disagreement came during the election. In fact, that all happened well after the election.

        Lynn’s post on it, a line from which is quoted in the Dom Post article, is dated Oct 14th.

        And, apart from anything else, it shows that The Standard is nothing like WO or KB, in that it is pretty independent of the Labour Party.

        Edit: sorry, left out the part of the extract about Cosgrove and Price, and it does kind of position the debate with Lynn as being after the election.
    • chris73 14.3

      1 November 2014 at 4:23 pm

      For what its worth I don’t read The Daily Blog as I find its complete arse in comparison to The Standard
15. phillip ure 15

    1 November 2014 at 12:59 pm

    (british tories start talking sensible on drugs..would that ours would..!..eh..?..

    ..should i hold my breath..?..or exhale..?..)

    “..The drugs revolution starts now – as MPs agree its high time for change..

    ..Commons debate highlights growing cross-party consensus on softening UK drugs legislation –

    – unchanged for 43 years..”

    (cont..)

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-drugs-revolution-starts-now-as-mps-agree-its-high-time-for-change-9829430.html
    • phillip ure 15.1

      1 November 2014 at 2:12 pm

      (and in local news..)

      “..Dope trial offers hope for sick girl..

      ..For the first time in seven years – Jessika Guest feels like she is getting to know her daughter Jade.

      Since trialling medical marijuana in Colorado – seven-year-old Jade’s seizures have dropped from 30 to 40 a day to five or less, and from 30 seconds each time to three or five seconds.

      ‘[It] has been a big success’ Mrs Guest said.

      ‘As a mum it’s been amazing to watch because I feel for the first time in seven years I’m getting to know my daughter’..”

      (cont..)

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11351575

      (cannabis prohibition..a good thing..?..yeah..nah..eh..?..)
16. Paul 16

    1 November 2014 at 2:11 pm

    Fearmongering by Fearfax media.
    Clearly there is an agenda.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10687841/Concern-over-Kiwi-jihadists
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10687081/The-new-terror-threat
    • Paul 16.1

      1 November 2014 at 2:13 pm

      And the Herald beats up the fear too.
      Pure propaganda.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11351557
    • JanM 16.2

      1 November 2014 at 2:49 pm

      And doesn’t it work a treat? – Read the comments
17. fisiani 17

    1 November 2014 at 2:59 pm

    Fascinating post by Kiwi in America Well worth a read. Explains why National won in 2014 and points out the stark choices for Labour. http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/
    • phillip ure 17.1

      1 November 2014 at 3:45 pm

      is that the same kiwi in america who used to send interminable screeds to kiwiblog..

      ..arguing first that clinton wd beat obama..

      ..and then that romney wd beat obama..

      ..is this the same seer..?
      • chris73 17.1.1

        1 November 2014 at 4:26 pm

        He makes some very good points as to why Labours doing so poorly but also wonders why Mike Williams wasn’t asked

        I’d have thought he’d be top of the list but then he might ask questions that people don’t want answered…
        • phillip ure 17.1.1.1

          1 November 2014 at 5:25 pm

          williams wasn’t ‘asked’ what..?

          ..he is a neo-lib rightwing-trout..

          ..and wd advise labour to swing to the right..

          ..he is symptomatic of all that is wrong with labour..

          ..he still thinks its’ 2007..(and that he is somehow relevant..)

          ..he shouldn’t even be ‘asked’ the bloody time of day…

          ..his answer wd be ideologically-slanted..

          ..to the neo-lib/right..

          ..and seriously..!..you are citing kiwi in america as some sort of ‘authoritative-voice’..?

          ..that’s funny..!
        • Paul 17.1.1.2

          1 November 2014 at 5:25 pm

          Well if Farrar thinks it’s a worthwhile post, that’s enough for me.
          It must be bull.
          • chris73 17.1.1.2.1

            1 November 2014 at 6:39 pm

            Damn straight, Labour should keep doing what its doing as its worked out so well for them over the last two elections
            • phillip ure 17.1.1.2.1.1

              1 November 2014 at 6:47 pm

              chris..

              do you really think there is anybody here who does not know you are a rightwing-trout..?

              ..hence..anything you say..is treated with the disdain it deserves..
              • chris73 …

                1 November 2014 at 6:52 pm

                …i was using…sarcasm to point out…

                …that labour might…consider any useful advice…

                …because what they’re doing now…clearly isn’t working…

                …eh?…
                • phillip ure …

                  2 November 2014 at 6:14 am

                  so..what are you actually doing here..?
            • felix 17.1.1.2.1.2

              2 November 2014 at 6:41 am

              “Damn straight, Labour should keep doing what its doing as its worked out so well for them over the last two elections”

              What, taking advice from fuckwits like you?

              “Kiwi In America” is the right-wing extremist who recently advised the Labour party that the best way forward is to split into two smaller parties, one of which could go into govt with National and the of which could be in opposition forever.

              So thanks for your concern, chris, but no thanks, thanks.
      • Murray Rawshark 17.1.2

        2 November 2014 at 12:45 am

        I think he’s a Rogernome who was involved in some move against Helen Clark and later moved to the US and A.
    • Clemgeopin 17.2

      1 November 2014 at 7:14 pm

      That is quite an anti-labour article full of negatives.
      It is silly to say that Labour is unpopular because it has drastically lurched to the left. There are several reasons that transpired before the election that caused a low vote for Labour, but the reason, ‘lurching to the left’ is not the one the article bases its theory on.

      Here are many of the policies that Labour advocated before the election. As you can see, there are economically sound and socially caring policies that are left, policies that are centrist and policies that are right oriented. This fact alone makes the article lose much of its credence.

      See for yourself: Here are a list of policies that Labour announced before the election:

      *100,000 new, affordable homes
      *Free healthcare to under 13s, pregnant women and over 65s
      *Raising the minimum wage to $16.25
      *Ensure every rental is warm and dry
      *Everything paid for, plus we’re in surplus
      *Ensure all Kiwis under 20 are in work, education or training
      *Best Start for Kiwi kids
      *Reduce unemployment to 4% in our first term
      *Lower class sizes
      *Extend paid paternal leave to 26 weeks
      *Ensure that all our rivers and lakes are clean
      *Lowering power bills
      *Convert the dole to apprenticeships
      *Protecting our land from speculators
      *Increase pension age to 67, but done very gradually over time.
      *Christchurch recovery policy
      *Capital gains tax excluding family home
      *Increase tax to 36c/$ for incomes above $150,000
      * investments to upgrade regional economies and create jobs
      *Auckland and Christchurch city Rail Link
      *Public Service Television Station
      *Ban shark finning, animal testing of cosmetics, synthetic highs.
      * New ministry for children
      *Restore Adult and community education
      *Kiwi assure insurance
      *Marine reserves
      *Abolition of secondary tax
      *Inquiry into wages and collective bargaining
      *Review of spy laws.
      *Support mining and deep sea drilling but with stringent safety/environmental regulations.
18. phillip ure 18

    1 November 2014 at 3:48 pm

    did you know that if you have not paid a vodafone bill by seven days after the due date..

    ..you get charged an extra $15…and then 4 wks later..another $15..

    ..fucken scumbag ripoff arsewipes..

    ..hello pre-paid..

    ..and hello cancelling internet account..
19. Paul 19

    1 November 2014 at 5:21 pm

    2011 National does not campaign on Charter Schools
    2014 National does not campaign on selling more assets.

    “Thousands of state houses could be put on the market despite the Government earlier ruling out selling off more state assets after this year’s general election.”

    Hope the muppets who voted for National feel good now.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11351788

    Looks like we’re following England’s tragic model.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/great-council-house-selloff-scandal-righttobuy-council-houses-leave-nowhere-for-poor-to-live-9832339.html
20. b waghorn 20

    1 November 2014 at 6:17 pm

    Just watching rich fuckers talking about how they don’t like people from out of there area trick or treating on there turf. Starting to think I hope I live long enough to see the poor rise up .
    • Paul 20.1

      1 November 2014 at 6:18 pm

      Where are you seeing this?
    • chris73 20.2

      1 November 2014 at 6:21 pm

      “Starting to think I hope I live long enough to see the poor rise up .”

      – Not even with Red Dwarfs stasis booth will that ever happen
      • b waghorn 20.2.1

        1 November 2014 at 6:25 pm

        Tell that to the tsar’s and the french aristocracy
        • chris73 20.2.1.1

          1 November 2014 at 6:37 pm

          Tell that to the million plus that voted National
          • phillip ure 20.2.1.1.1

            1 November 2014 at 6:40 pm

            tell that to the million disposessed…
          • b waghorn 20.2.1.1.2

            1 November 2014 at 6:43 pm

            At least you’re clever enough to identity the problem now have you got the integrity to do something about it
            • chris73 20.2.1.1.2.1

              1 November 2014 at 6:50 pm

              Nationals got three and probably another six years to sort things out and since so-called child poverty hasn’t risen since 2008 when National had to deal with the Christchurch earthquakes and the global financial crisis I’d say they’re the government that can start to make the much needed changes to help the children that’re suffering due to poor parenting
              • b waghorn …

                1 November 2014 at 6:54 pm

                Insurance money flooding in farmers having the best run in years 80 + billion in debt they’re good allright
                • chris73 …

                  1 November 2014 at 7:01 pm

                  Back into surplus as promised, interest still low, thousands of kiwis returning home and and approval rating the left can only dream of

                  oh and also they’re in power and the left arn’t so yes they are pretty good
                  • b waghorn …

                    1 November 2014 at 7:06 pm

                    Struggling with the arrogance thing though. Would love to stay and play but got dogs to feed
                    • chris73 …

                      1 November 2014 at 7:10 pm

                      Its not arrogance when you can back it up as National has done by getting more votes in 2014 then it did in 2011

                      Completely different subject but what dogs do you have?
    • Clemgeopin 20.3

      1 November 2014 at 9:37 pm

      Yep, these rich mean spirited bastards are so very arrogant, shamelessly callous and pathetic shits….just for a few lollies or some small coins! Welcome to the truly filthy wealthy suburbs.
      http://www.3news.co.nz/nznews/kids-get-selective-with-their-trick-or-treating-suburb-2014110116
21. b waghorn 21

    1 November 2014 at 6:20 pm

    Tv3 news
    • Paul 21.1

      1 November 2014 at 6:34 pm

      You still watch mainstream news?
      • b waghorn 21.1.1

        1 November 2014 at 6:51 pm

        Any one who wants to see change needs to see what’s going on
22. Paul 22

    1 November 2014 at 6:32 pm

    Another warning.

    “In the past 20 years, the author notes that the Amazon has lost 763,000 sq km, an area the size of two Germanys. In addition another 1.2m sq km has been estimated as degraded by cutting below the canopy and fire.

    As a result, the report notes, the deterioration of the rainforest – through logging, fires and land clearance – has resulted in a decrease in forest transpiration and a lengthening of dry seasons. This might be one of the factors of the severe drought affecting south-east Brazil. São Paulo – the biggest city in South America – is facing its worst water shortages in almost a century. October, which is usually the start of the rainy season, was drier than at any time since 1930, leaving the volume of the Cantareira reservoir system down to 5% of capacity.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/oct/31/amazon-rainforest-deforestation-weather-droughts-report
23. Clemgeopin 23

    1 November 2014 at 6:39 pm

    email to me from the review@labour.org.nz

    Clement, many thanks for your submission. You make some very good points which we will certainly take into account. Kind regards.
    ————

    You can make submissions either through the Labour party website at Labour.org or by emailing your submission to review@labour.org.nz.
24. weka 24

    1 November 2014 at 7:46 pm

    Anyone else finding ts running a bit slow lately? I thought it was my crap bb but am on 3G mobile now and it’s still slow
    • lprent 24.1

      1 November 2014 at 8:17 pm

      Should not be happening. I will pick more details after I get out of this wedding
      • weka 24.1.1

        1 November 2014 at 8:30 pm

        thinking about it, that last comment was from my iphone, which hasn’t handled ts (desktop version) very well since the last OS update a some weeks ago.
        • McFlock 24.1.1.1

          2 November 2014 at 1:18 am

          ah, the old “our new OS slows down our old machines so people are more likely to buy the new gadget” gambit.
25. chris73 25

    1 November 2014 at 7:47 pm

    And just to lighten the mood for our Green brethren:
    • Anne 25.1

      1 November 2014 at 9:00 pm

      That’s funny.
26. millsy 26

    1 November 2014 at 11:43 pm

    Meanwhile some good news from New Plymouth with the council voting overwhemingly to scrap a review into its pensioner flats, essentially keeping them. A welcome respite from the usual sell fest that has been happening over the past 20 odd years all over the country. Though I would still wager on big service cuts in next year’s 10 year plan as the newly dominant right faction flexes thier muscles.
27. Clemgeopin 27

    1 November 2014 at 11:43 pm

    Mahuta and Ardern speak up on stuff:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10685322/Waikato-politicians-pitch-for-Labours-top-jobs

    Very enlightening good article.
    • Murray Rawshark 27.1

      2 November 2014 at 1:31 am

      This probably seems superficial, but the way Ardern dresses says something to me. She seems to be trying to disguise herself as someone twice her age. This makes me think she’s socially clumsy and unsure of herself. This could be why she always seemed to act on suggestions from Mallard and was so ineffective in Parliament.

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