- Date published:
11:28 am, December 1st, 2013 - 96 comments
Categories: uncategorized - Tags:
Open mike is your post.
For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.
The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).
Step right up to the mike …
Can someone explain what is going on here? Having been denied access for the past 24 hrs I’m now receiving a not very commenter friendly version of TS. Is it just temporary or what? Thanks.
Is still not well, looks to be having a formatting problem now, corrupt CSS somewhere?
On my mobile pages are formatting correctly (both mobile and desktop view on Chrome connected through my house wifi), but using firefox, IE11 and Opera 18.0 on Windows 8 it looks like CSS are missing (I’ll have a look using browsers on my kubuntu box a bit later, but I dont expect any difference).
Have cleared cache and cookies on all browsers, no change.
Issue is no CSS.
I’m not a web guy, very much a generalist, but thought I might have a look anyway using using Firebug.
My first thought was maybe there was an issue with js resulting in no reference to any css, but I’m able to connect to all the js urls referenced in the in the page source; http://cdn.thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/plugins/wptouch-pro-3/include/js/desktop-switch.js as well as the 3rd party ones like nz.imrworldwide, ajax.cloudflare etc.
Little climate clock is running quite happily as well. No js seems to be ok.
Hope you can isolate the CSS issue shortly Lprent.
Having a look at thestandard stripped of formatting as well as the viewing the source has prompted me to reflect on how far the web has come along in the last few years.
It seems like it was just the other day I was starting to explore the web using lynx. The primary driver for getting connected was to build my first OS, on the first machine I built, Slackware running on an early 386.
After buying all the components I needed, and assembling it, with some advice over the phone from my brother who actually worked with computers (for an actual job, that you could get actual money!). I then bought myself a Slackware book, which came with a single floppy disk.
The disk contained all the tools needed to format the hard drive and connect to one of the slackware ftp sites to download the latest build.
Once I’d done that, configured my settings (manually configuring settings for the video adapter and screen was the most finickity) I recompiled the kernel, and viola! A command prompt.
The next step was to get X-Windows up and running, this was to take longer than all the previous steps combined.
Running Lynx connected me to a fascinating new world, and I immediately found that I was not the only one having trouble with X-Windows.
After reading everything I could find on X-Windows, and finding a group of other folks from around the world who were also learning to hate X-Windows, together we helped solve each others issues, and in a matter of only a few weeks, I was able to get X-Windows running properly, in black and white.
I know it must be almost 20 years ago now, but it feels like it was just the other day.
Macro +100…the Standard seemed to be out of reach yesterday( my partner said it wasnt me and my computer ….the site was down!)…what happened I wonder ?…was it cyber sabotage?
…my only alternative distraction and local political education was my usual the Daily Blog ( David Cunliffe interview was great!)…I refuse to go to those other horrible sites ….Kiwi Blog and Slater”s what- char- ma- call-it ? ( the Devils own territory)
Shows how important ‘ the Standard’ is for a genuine grassroots Left voice!…. imo
It seems, from a couple of conversations I had on Twitter, that Cloudflare was having issues.
“..my only alternative distraction and local political education ..
smirk to you philip ure….btw my son has given up being a vegan ( thank God)….and is now a mere vegetarian.(and getting fatter)….waiting til he gives up being a vegetarian
I gave up veganism after 1 day, vegetarianism after 2 days… and am now back to eating lovely little lambies, rabbits , beef on the hoof, chicken, fish, eggs, venison…..yum!….I will have to have another incarnation
….and the little piggies taste best of all!…yum yum
Thank goodness… I couldn’t get access yesterday or this morning. I felt like I was marooned and cut off from civilisation (apart from the Daily Blog of course).
Macro and Chooky – agree totally. I was wanting to put up some info about our blockade of State Highway One on Thursday (28 Nov) in a more timely fashion, but never mind …. The Standard is now back to normal ! Great.
People from the Hikurangi and Puhipuhi communities have been feeling very frustrated that all attempts to engage with senior Govt Ministers and the PM about their very real worries about mercury being exposed and leaking into our waterways through gold exploratory drilling in the Puhipuhi Hills (about 36 kms north of Whangarei) were not being listened to. We finally got fed up, and organised a peaceful two-hour blockade of SH1. There was a detour route – through a sealed, winding country road with the occasional one-lane bridge along it.
For buses and huge logging trucks, delivery trucks etc we acknowledged this could be a nuisance to them and slow down their delivery times between Whangarei and further north – Kawakawa, Bay of Islands etc. It probably added up to half-an-hour to their journey. This was a cost to business, AND a cost to Government whose various departments had to do the actual stoppage – put up road blocks, monitor the situation constantly, etc etc.
We’ve been told the exploratory gold drilling will be a “minimal” disruption and not cause a nuisance. This is a nonsense ! The drilling involves going down at least 500 metres on each site, starting with a big hole and gradually narrowing, taking out all that soil and rock for sample analysis, and replacing it with a slurry of water, concrete and goodness knows what else. The mining company representative told us these details in person.
What he couldn’t tell us : would any of that drilling hit any of the myriad of underground aquifers which currently feed the water bores people use for personal water use and farm stock ?
This is a really important question. Because the Puhipuhi hills are riddled with mercury throughout its soil and rocks, it has hundreds (if not thousands) of underground aquifers and springs, as well as the surface water in streams and rivers – all of which run directly down via about 50 kms – into the Kaipara Harbour which is the spawning ground for snapper and other fish.
There is documented evidence that disturbing the soil and rocks leads to mercury leaching out into the streams, the roadside ditches, spilling onto vegetation – killing fish species, grasses and vegetation and making farm animals sick.
We’ve come up with a number of feasible alternative economic development concepts – they just need a bit more research, more strategic planning and considerable government funding to make them all into real, environmentally sustainable employment opportunities for people in the north.
But we cannot get the Government to listen. Hence the SH1 blockade last Thursday. We’re now awaiting a response. I guess you could say – watch this space !
Yes, saw you on TV3 news Jenny, well done.
With TS down I managed to read a few more pages of The Luminaries than I otherwise would have…
Good on you I know exactly the area that you are talking about.
Can I ask, since Northland votes for Hone and anyone dressed in blue are the local farmers either going to actually join the Nacts and get an MP more responsive to their concerns, vote for the same old, or vote with labour and the Greens? To some extent I think the longer term remedy is in their own hands – how many would have to join the local Nacts to control the branch?
Well, I’m not Nact, RedBaronCV so I don’t know about that, but I would hope by now some of the Nat voters in the area are waking up.
…yes Jenny…great summary of the environmentalist action!….I heard on the radio that farmers are also very concerned about mercury leaching into waterways…great they are also joining in and taking action for the environment
I don’t seem to be able to reply to any comments.
When I click on the “Reply” the message “Error on page” comes up.
Can anyone reply to a comment?
It is working for me alwyn.
This isn’t quite “The Standard” web-site that I was used too. Somewhere in cyberspace is a comment I posted, unless ‘Karol’ didn’t like it. And it’s not the easiest link to get too now.
Conspiracy theories abounds. Who is spying on who ?
No sign of it in spam will. Maybe the internet ate it?
What’s the story on David Hay and Greens I read what Danyl had to say overt at Dimpost but like him I also have sources within Greens and get a quite different story from Danyl.
The information flowing through MSM now looks very like someone trying to muddy the waters on the whole imbroglio
Most disappointed in the process they adopted think it could have been handled better
It would seem that there have been a number of ‘issues’ with Mr Hay dating back quite some time, one strand of the rumors is that the ‘leadership challenge’ issued publicly by Hay was a late and ham-fisted attempt at embarrassing the Party in an attempt to stop any disciplinary action it was thinking of taking,
i do not see how the Party could have handled ‘issues’ it had with Hay any differently and it must be remembered that it was Mr Hay who dragged the issue into the public arena in that attempt at embarrassment,
The party seem to have quickly taken the required actions and my opinion is that there is no or minimal damage that will accrue from the actions the Party took,
i find spurious Hay’s claim that only having 3 of it’s current MP’s domiciled in Auckland is ‘hurting’ the Green Party in terms of voting, a quick look at the Party Vote in the Auckland electorates, including National held ones, will tell everyone that in most the Green Party did extremely well in 2011 at times doubling the Party Vote,
Whether David Hay has any large amount of support in the Auckland area that could potentially cause a split in the Party there has yet to be seen, i tho doubt that and it is my belief that most members are more then happy with the current leadership being provided by Metiria and Russell…
Has Labour a policy to bring Private schools down. Christ’s College in Christchurch an elite school for the children of wealthy Cantabrians operates as a registered charity and receives a per pupil grant from the Government. What about a change that would.
1. Eliminate the charitable status retrospectively- ie unless they can prove that they actually are a charity then their tax free status needs to be revoked as far back as possible.
2. Stop funding a separate education system for the elites out of the education funding for all New Zealanders.
Are there any other ways to break these institutions. The thing is what I am suggesting sounds a bit nasty doesn’t it. But the right broke the union movement in New Zealand so it only seems fair for the left to break the institutions that help to create and maintain an elite.
Yep I agree , if they want their elite status they can fund it themselves. And we could look at stripping off some of the other institutions – employer federations for example. They have too big a voice with no competing dialogue
How does that work?
Government funding of private needs to be stopped ASAP. Government funding should only be going to state schools. If people want education outside of that then that’s their choice and their costs.
Don’t need to break them, just stop government funding of them.
+1 …agree Plan B…if people want an elite education they should pay for it themselves…..ordinary NZers tax money should go to upgrading the State Education system and Continuing Education
( Continuing Education…. National dismantled and gave the money directly to private schools!…an absolute disgrace and very cruel !…because Continuing Education provided opportunities for learning from all sectors of society, town and country, young and old, successful people and those struggling, new immigrants, those newly moved from another city, those recovering from depression or mental illness, the newly bereaved, the unemployed, the retired …it provided social cohesion, the opportunity to make new friends from all strata of society)
Yes State taxpayers money should be for State Education!
In actual fact if children can get through/stick with the State Education system….. mix it with the hoi polloi (the smokers in the hedges, wild parties, uncouth language etc) and get their NCEA 3 …they statistically do better at university….probably because they haven’t been pampered ,’hot housed’ little plants ….and they are socially more sophisticated
…..also from what I have heard and observed, private schools have their own problems of under-achievment , bullying, drugs ….and in some cases these problems are all the more vicious because they are swept under the carpet.
Agree Plan B and Chooky. Private Schools are decimating our local high school by taking many of the farmers kids away, for some reason most dairy farmers now send their kids to private schools. But to be honest, when I was in high school in the early 80″s, it was the farmers kids who were the biggest bigots, so in some ways it is good to get rid of them…but on the flip side, these kids have no chance of reform if they attend private schools. In public schools they would mix with everyone in the school, sports teams, etc and it was good for them. These private schooled kids eventually come back to take over their family farms, they are not part of the local community, and they seem to struggle to mix socially so they end up being the biggest loser in my opinion.
Makes you wonder why they’re being sent to private schools? Perhaps their parents don’t want them to know what real life is like.
@ Saarbo and DTB…their parents want the best for them…(and when they are newly very rich dairy farmers they think private schools are the best, even although they may not have had a private education themselves ….but sometimes a private school education is most definitely not the best)….i went to a big co-ed state school with farmers kids and other kids , some were from rich families and some from poorer families …it didnt matter ( whereas I think it matters in Private schools how much money you have)…I know some farmers’ kids and other kids who went to Private schools and absolutely loathed the experience( one came from a very wealthy city family)…so much so they left at the earliest opportunity or switched to a State school
….. It is a misconception that all farmers are wealthy and all students at Private schools come from wealthy families ( some families struggled to send their kids to private boarding schools)…Farmers and farmers kids are a mixed bag like everyone else…..Ernest Rutherford was a farmers kid, as have been many notable scientists and NZers …..In my experience many farmers kids who went to Private schools dont necessarily go on to university …and if they do , they dont necessarily do that well…but that is a personal generalisation
…making the most of education often depends on the education values of the parents…and of course whether the kid is inclined to put in the effort….so State Schools, where some get scholarships to university and some choose to create trouble behind the bike sheds or in the hedges …. are good enough for everyone ….and those who want an elite or special school should pay for it imo
The point I was getting at is that private schools would tend to cement in attitudes that reflect what the “elite” think about the world whereas public schools would change as society and knowledge changes.
@DTB…private schools can do this agreed …and this is what they are meant to do !
….on the other hand given popular music culture ….I think many from private schools want to rebel….. and get out of jail as fast as they can…… and meet the real world head on… fill up the reality gaps in their lives….. and prove to themselves and everyone else they can trash themselves better than the best of them!…in other words they go crazy once they get let out of jail much to the bemusement of their State educated mates, who have seen it all before long ago and are much more cautious….
Re Alwyn’s complaint… reply doesn’t seem to be working for me. Can’t search commenters comments either. What with all this spying caper that’s occurring, you have to wonder if someone out there doesn’t like us. 🙁
It is working fine for me but there are a few issues obviously …
What browser are you using?
Remember that the while the parents get subsidized for their kids private school education those same parents are still paying the taxes to go towards everyone elses public school education
So in effect its cheaper for NZ and gives more resources to everyone else if more kids go private
But when private schools ALSO receive substantial funding from the state, your argument disappears up it’s own fundament.
Most parents are paying more for private schools this year despite a $35 million government funding boost to make them more affordable.- why are we spending public money to make private schools more affordable ?
Using this logic perhaps private Heath care should be treated in a similar manner ???
Also remember Wanganui Collegiate are now receiving subsidies from Government under some form of the Integrated Schools System. I personally think it is time that Integrated Schools was scrapped. In the most it seems a large subsidy to the Catholic Church and a few other denominational schools. Put all the money into state schools and let private schools stand on their own feet
The state isn’t there to prop up private businesses.
This government is!
Well, true but it’s still up to us to disabuse them of the notion.
Even if government money is being spent on private schools, if they’re spending $$$$$ for each public school space, and $$ in subsidies for each private school space, that’s still a saving.
How does that work. If there were no private schools receiving subsidies then the money paid to those schools could go to the already existing state schools.
Why pay a subsidy to someone to duplicate the already existing state structure
Er, you can’t just magically fit more children into the existing state schools without increasing funding.
If it costs $$$$$ to educate a child in the state system, and the state pays $$ in the private system, if all of the private schools shut down the government would need to find $$$ extra for each of those children that will now need to go the state schools.
So you are then happy for private medical insurance to have some form of state subsidy? As from my perspective private medical, pension and schooling are the same, and I find it difficult for one to be state supported while the others are not, or am I missing something?
Love to ask Polly’s why this is so and for them to find reason to justify this.
The private medical industry already does have a state subsidy, in the form of them only taking on the easy/profitable surgeries and therapies. All emergency work is done by the public system.
Note that I’m not justifying or saying that the current system is good. Just that it *is* saving the taxpayer’s money compared to what we would be paying if the private schools didn’t exist at all.
Also mess ups caused from within the private system always end up back in the public system to be patched up.
Same with any cosmetic surgery from Thailand. Cheap price for the punter, but when it gets infected back here, the NZ tax payer takes the hit.
I understand your points that have been made, yet if we integrated these private school students would the marginal cost be that great ? Would schools such as kings, st Kent’s etc just close down., if there was no govt assistance many of these and similar schools would still continue to exist.
There is from my observation plenty of new clients to these schools being sourced from the burbs, so the perception is that over the last 10+ years that private is far superior to state! which is supported by govt policy of making these schools more affordable.
I think you’ll find that the state schools could easily take in the all the pupils in private schools and require very little extra funding to do so.
You did note the existence of the I think didn’t you?
There’s a few thousand state schools with hundreds of thousands of pupils. There’s a few private schools with a few thousand pupils. Those private school pupils come from across the country. If we then distributed them across the public school system it probably wouldn’t raise pupil numbers beyond what each public school could handle as is. A little more funding would help of course and perhaps some more class rooms.
Now, I call again for you to back up your assertion.
Factor in many of the priviledged hide their family incomes behind trust accounts, etc, and so qualify for student allowances at uni. My lads ended up with $60,000 loans!
Please explain to me how this works?
I’m using firefox mickysavage and according to naturesong it’s one of those affected. But I’m a pc dummy – don’t know what to do about it. Not even sure what a cookie is…
Btw Redlogix (might as well reply here since my TS settings are way to hell..), my father said exactly the same as your father did re-Muldoon – down to the same words. He also had a few dealings with him many,many years ago.
I think its more cost effective but if you have some figures that show otherwise I’d be interested in seeing them
Generally the schools ‘operating budget’ , ie salaries and annual overheads is paid for from the state. In some senses that’s actually quite fair, every parent pays taxes and every parent regardless of whether their children are in the public or private sector get a benefit from this. The idea that private schooling parents somehow ‘pay twice’ for their children’s education is quite wrong.
The main fiscal difference between public and state sector schooling is where the capital budget comes from, ie land, buildings and facilities.
In the public sector the capital budget is a small fraction of the operating budget, probably around 10% if the following numbers are a guide:
How the private sector spends it’s income is of course far more opaque. What we can assume is that they exercise more choice around using its substantial fee income …on more staff, fancier buildings and facilities, advertising and the like. And that by itself is not a bad thing. Unlike some here on the left I’ve no real problem with various non-state actors in the education system. The Catholic, Steiner and various other alternatives have a legitimate place alongside a healthy public system.
What I do object to is seeing a private sector, targeting the very wealthy, and growing at the expense of the public system, as trend that has been long established in say England, and has rapidly evolved in Australia over the last few decades.
That is nothing more than pure snobbery and elitism. It entrenches social privilege and economic inequality. It is the antithesis of sound education and over generations it enforces the haves and the have-nots. The left soundly rejects it.
Is david hay related to sir keith hay and his son david hay.
I was wondering that too. I met David Hay campaigning in Epsom last election, and he seemed reasonable enough, and had useful things to say in the election debates (which were extremely divisive).
About No. 5 – mining. Just some info on the mining coy De Grey that has right to look at Puhipuhi
De Grey Mining Limited is a West Australian based public company exploring for high-grade epithermal gold-silver on 4,675 square kilometres in Santa Cruz and Rio Negro Provinces, Argentina.
In Santa Cruz, the Sierra Morena and Pachi Projects are drill ready and the company will test defined targets early in the 2012-2013 field season.
In November 2012, De Grey Mining signed an agreement with Waihi Gold Company Ltd to acquire 100% of the Puhipuhi Project located on the North Island of New Zealand.
Saw him on tv last night jayman. I wonder because the older david hay was a bit of an idiot…
great piece by steve braunias today.
This is sir keiths son
Judging by his latest media release (see Scoop feed at right of screen) he has now lost the plot. Sad.
– and while I reckon most of you are cheering about whats happening to Cameron Slater at the moment I think the implications are worth considering for everyone, left or right
I have no idea what’s happening to that oik, nor do I care.
Left wing bloggers in general already know they shouldn’t get down in the sewer and make stuff up. Blubber Boy needs to learn.
Oh this is UGLY no matter what browser Ii use FF, Opera, or even Ugg Internet Exploder. The whole site is indented left, with what looks like screwed up carriage returns.
It is fine for me David. Do you want to clear your cache and cookies and try again?
MickyS – I couldn’t do a reply this time either. Managed it earlier in the day though.
To Grey Warbler @ 19 – thanks for the De Grey Mining info. We’ve picked up most of that, but didn’t realise they were drill ready on their Argentina sites. Our govt has allowed them to delay their actual drilling here (Puhipuhi) until April 2014. So far this is the third extension of time they’ve been granted. We’re not sure if they’ve run out of cash for the job, or if the Argentina work is holding them up.
I am very happy I can still put a post up despite what the site looks like. And I wonder about lprent trying to work his way through the various paradigms and puzzles of what to do for the best. Its a dynamic world out there. So we’re thinking about you Lynn. Have fun. (Ironic!)
Great article in the Sydney Morning Herald.
Pencil in the election date:
NZ (Key) has been invited to the G20 in Brisbane, 15-16 November 2014.
That’s the ‘top table’ summit, with Obama and co. Pictures of the PM in the Queensland sunshine, chatting with world leaders, handshakes and smiles for the telly.
So the election will be held 1-2 weeks after.
Would he really want to be out of the country during the election campaign?
No he would not, he would not take a couple of days out of the campaign at that stage, let alone a week
It’s not a week, it’s a couple of days and it’s from the campaigning playbook. Image is all, see Reagan (D-day 1984)), Thatcher (Moscow 1987), etc.
You think Key wants to stay home and discuss issues?
Clark or Cunliffe wouldn’t go, but Key would (will).
Those events had considerably more import than a fucking G20 meeting that we don’t have any real business attending.
Key couldn’t get any concessions from Australia to help NZ citizens. But he did get ball tickets for the G20 from Abbott. Swell.
I think you could be right. Key could advance himself in this foreign forum, and leave his lieutenants to keep the ball in the air here. One has to look at the bigger picture, the most advantageous use of opportunity cost time etc for the key to understanding his NZ campaign.
I pray this TS format improves…
If by “TS” you mean The Standard? I, along with many others (but apparently not everyone) had massive Cloudflare problems yesterday. For me it got resolved around 9:00 or so, in that I could (sporadically) access the site, but the display was all broken; lots of plain text, blue links on a white background. Had a little bit of that this morning, but it’s cleared up now.
So if you’re seeing that, I suspect it may resolve itself for you in due course.
Be nice if we got some response from Lynn as to what went wrong.
reply not working..
even difficult to ‘reply’ appropriately Lanth.
THANK YOU LANTH. (been talking to others through fb; yes, that is how TS is for moi at present)
LA-Innnnnnnn, Lynn, Are you there? 🙂
and, yes, cleared cache and cookies etc on both browsers; Woe is me…
This browser (IE) pops out the ‘debugging’ box all the time, identifying errors.
Everything seems to be working fine in Chrome
At the moment the problem is with Kiwiblog.
Well the site’s loading properly again, thank god, but now I can’t reply to comments, boo.
The Standard currently looks like this for me in Chrome, anyone else experiencing this or is it just me… http://i.imgur.com/kvatW0Y.png
Had that a few times over the last day or so. That, the comment errors and the fact that the site was going really slow finally had me stop looking/posting yesterday. Been good for me today though.
All good for me today too.
Yes the site looks like that for me with Firefox on Ubuntu. So I guess the site is at fault.
Also this reply went in the wrong place.
Mike Williams just repeated a very cute quote on Col Craig (sounds more manly than Colin). It is the one mentioned below in bold in Bryce Edwards 27/11 extensive piece on him and the possibility of a deal over Poorer Benefit’s electorate seat. The Standard Coat-tail comment is also referred to –
Bryce Edwards: Political roundup: Winning at the 2014 general election.
The latest must-read feature about Colin Craig and his policies is Andrea Vance’s Conservative Party: Crazy or credible?. This comprehensive piece also includes a list of 10 of the Conservatives’ ‘more interesting policy platforms’ compiled by Steve Kilgallon. Complimenting this is Vance’s own opinion piece, Craig politics – nice and nutty, which features the memorable line: ‘So far, all the signals point to him being nuttier than squirrel poo’.
Transmission Gully is underway and yet this is what the NZ Herlad has to say about PPPs It is very damming and a bit amazing for a mainstream media outlet to come right out and say it.
Cargo-cult mystique of funding through private sector deals blurs burden of risk for public.
PPPs are like renting the same car every day for 25 years , you get to pay a lot of money (many times the actual cost of a car) and at then end of it you get to keep the 25 year old bomb of a car, which is of course clapped out. Brilliant.