Open mike 02/11/2011

103 comments on “Open mike 02/11/2011 ”

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1. joe90 1

   2 November 2011 at 8:33 am

   I like cricket, especially test cricket, and Mark Reason says what I’ve been thinking.

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/5891155/Shame-on-NZ-Cricket-for-touring-Zimbabwe
2. Jenny 2

   2 November 2011 at 8:35 am

   19 out of every 20 Maori who pay taxes all their lives will die before they get the pension” claims MANA leader Hone Harawira

   “Labour betraying Maori again”

   “You’d think that after the Foreshore and Seabed debacle, Labour would be wary about betraying Maori again” said MANA leader and MP for Tai Tokerau, Hone Harawira “but that’s exactly what raising the retirement age from 65 to 67 does”
   The director of Massey University’s Research Centre for Maori Health and Development, Professor Chris Cunningham, said Maori already had a shorter life expectancy and that Labour’s proposal to raise the superannuation age would clearly disadvantage them.
   His comments were backed up by Professor Natalie Jackson from Waikato University’s Demographic Studies Centre who pointed out that the current superannuation policy was highly prejudicial against Maori and that Labour’s plans would make that far worse.
   “On current trends, 19 out of every 20 Maori will pay taxes all their lives and then die before they get the pension” said Harawira. “That’s a criminal bloody outrage that no society should accept, and yet by raising the retirement age from 65 to 67, Labour will ensure that even fewer Maori would live to get superannuation.”
   Harawira said that the lesson for Maori was a simple one – both Labour and National had the interests of the wealthy at heart, not the interests of those at the bottom of society.
   “MANA can’t just sit quiet on this. We want the retirement age for Maori lowered from 65 to 60, until such time as statistics prove that Maori live to the same age as non-Maori”
   Harawira added that government should also look at the impact of poverty on life expectancy as a factor in claiming a pension earlier as well.

   Hone Harawira
   • Jenny 2.1

     2 November 2011 at 9:40 am

     Not only Maori will be disadvantaged by Phil Goff’s austerity. Like most working class Maori Sefo Lam Sam never got to live to see a pension either. Goff’s raising the age of eligibility will ensure that many more of the working poor will also miss out.

     How the working poor are being killed off early

     The Lam Sams are not alone. Pacific people are almost twice as likely, and Maori more than twice as likely, as European New Zealanders to die before age 75. Low-income women are about 1.5 times as likely to die as high income women; low-income men are about 1.75 times as likely to die as men on high incomes.
     • uke 2.1.1

       2 November 2011 at 10:04 am

       Yeah – I hope Labour abandon this policy in due course. The social contract simply does not pan out in the same way for working-class people (Maori, Pacific Island, or Pakeha) who die younger and don’t see the same benefit of their lifetime of tax payments, in the form of super or healthcare.
        
       Wasn’t the great hope of the modern industrial capitalist system that everybody could spend less time on drudgery, dangerous and repetitive work, and wage slavery?
        
       An alternative could be to keep the super-entitlement age at 65 (or perhaps lower it to 60), but then require those who retire fully to engage in a minimum of 15-20 hours voluntary community-based work per week until the age of 75.
       • KJT 2.1.1.1

         2 November 2011 at 12:05 pm

         “Wasn’t the great hope of the modern industrial capitalist system that everybody could spend less time on drudgery, dangerous and repetitive work, and wage slavery?”

         Well. That was actually the aim of a great many Capitalist thinkers in the past.

         That’s why I do not like the label, conservative, for the high priests of Neo-liberalism.

         Old style conservatives had the same social aims as socialists, communists or any other ism’s.
         A better life for everyone.

         We just differed on the best way to get there.

         I am talking to some now who are just as disgusted with the wrecking of our society as any socialist. I think National are going to drop a long way down. Unfortunately probably not in time for the election.

         Neo-Liberals have abandoned any ideas of a better society in favour of stealing what they can from the rest of us.

         Without the outright theft of the last 35 years we would all be looking at surviving on less working hours.

         Instead of 60% of what we produce with our hard work going to corporates to be lent back to us.
     • insider 2.1.2

       2 November 2011 at 11:21 am

       So you want a race based test for benefits? Will they get a special ‘Maori Card’ for cheap bus fares and specials at the movies too? How are you going to define Maori?

       I’ve got a friend witha family preponderance to a type of cancer. Three out of six of the immediate family were dead before retirement. Is she eligible?

       The stupid thing is that paying a select race off will do nothing to encourage healthy lifestyle changes and seeking education, which are important determinants of life span. It can only entrench it.
     • Draco T Bastard 2.1.3

       2 November 2011 at 12:08 pm

       This needs to be addressed but it’s not the retirement age that’s the problem. What we need is better working conditions, better healthcare and a far more even income distribution. People should be able to live a long, enjoyable life no matter what work they do. Unfortunately, the capitalist paradigm works the majority to death to enrich a few.
   • pollywog 2.2

     2 November 2011 at 12:43 pm

     Maori need to go back to their iwi for handouts, live off the land and get their kids to look after them when they’re old and busted.

     Fuck the state owing them a living. It’s why we as Pasifikans have so many kids.If we look after them when they’re young they’ll look after us when we’re old.

     The counter to that is, if we beat them, don’t provide the best we can for them, devalue them as commodities to ensure state welfare handouts then good luck to you when you’re old and sad and lonely and bitter and twisted.

     In many cases we only have ourselves to blame. Reaping what we sow and all that…
     • Draco T Bastard 2.2.1

       2 November 2011 at 6:32 pm

       Having lots of children is unsustainable and thus really, really stupid.
3. randal 3

   2 November 2011 at 8:39 am

   Phil goff will deliver.
   Kweewee just shiver.
   Looking for a backbone to run up.
   • KJT 3.1

     2 November 2011 at 12:08 pm

     Goff has shown what we have been asking for from him all along. Backbone.

     Personally, I believe he deserves credit.
     • seeker 3.1.1

       2 November 2011 at 2:26 pm

       Fully agree KJT.
   • mik e 3.2

     2 November 2011 at 6:43 pm

     Shifty shonkey
     mister wishy washy like a broken washing machine permanently stuck on spin
     Jinxed key
     Don key the new opposition coalition for 1 term key
4. mickysavage 4

   2 November 2011 at 9:04 am

   Gawd the Herald is at it again.
    
   It sounds like they doorknocked St Stephens Ave and found out that most of the Chinese there supported National.
    
   This is the best example of a brain fart unscientific poll I have seen.  Yet they report it as news?
    
   I can assure them that out west there is significant support for Labour amongst the Chinese.
    
   • Colonial Viper 4.1

     2 November 2011 at 9:08 am

     Fish and chip shop owners can tell easy when their communities have no more wages to spend. Or when a family’s usual Fri night order of $30 worth of fish and chips suddenly starts becoming a $20 order instead.

     Low wages hurt small businesses.
   • felix 4.2

     2 November 2011 at 9:32 am

     Didn’t know Bill and Mary Smith were Asian, but they seem to be quoted in that article.
   • Kty 4.3

     2 November 2011 at 10:41 am

     Yep! agree a whole 36 respondants, thats a real good representation, just like that stupid txt poll that tv1 did on monday night. According to the article below their are 7 Auckland battlegrounds were the asian vote matters (total of 112’227 voters) 36 of which have given there views, it also states that the source was a herald survey. Shenanigans and scaremongering to the front once more me thinks.

     http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10763287
5. Tiger Mountain 5

   2 November 2011 at 9:09 am

   Mrs ShonKey and Mrs Banksie are missing in action from a Stuff, admittedly puff piece, on prominent politicians partners. Bronagh could claim privacy, but not with credibility given all her appearences in Womans Day etc. In an email she says she only does media with John not solo. Looks like the usual non engagement tactic given Dunne, Norman, Harawira, Goff and Sharples partners took the plunge.
   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5889368/Hanging-out-with-the-political-Wags
6. lprent 6

   2 November 2011 at 9:29 am

   Had a outage for a couple of hours due to an out of date credit card trying to pay the DNS, my skipping emails because of the current project, and the backup DNS being behind a newly installed orcon genius without a pinhole for the DNS.

   Duh! All my fault

   Took a few hours to get the ISP’s DNS’s to catch up after I found it it at 7am and fixed at 0730. It was off for 90 minutes prior to that. Heading off to work
7. Carol 7

   2 November 2011 at 9:31 am

   Glad the Standard is back up, and to learn that it wasn’t something to do with my server.
   • Tiger Mountain 7.1

     2 November 2011 at 9:36 am

     lprent’s honesty is above and beyond the call of duty. Missed the early a.m. ‘Standard’ fix too.
     • KJT 7.1.1

       2 November 2011 at 10:06 am

       Iprent deserves credit for the fact we so seldom have outages.
       • thejackal 7.1.1.1

         2 November 2011 at 10:41 am

         I’m glad it wasn’t a cyber-attack. Long live The Standard.
8. KJT 8

   2 November 2011 at 9:44 am

   The really ignorant thing about Nationals plans is they do not even stack up from a right wing market economy viewpoint. Taking a billion of local spenders out of an economy that is just recovering from recession will send it back into it. Hurting employers and employees alike.

   If low wages and benefits are so “good” for business, why aren’t businesses in Somalia and the Philippines doing better than here?

   Why did so many SME’s close their doors during Ruthanasia?

   Watch it happen again when NACT’s next round of meanness to ordinary people and borrowing to steal, bites.
   Subsidising marginal business by artificially keeping wages low, from PAYE and other taxes paid by businesses who are successful enough to actually cover the costs of their inputs is a poor use of human resources. Much more of “”MS’ money”” is going to prop up the profits of business who cannot pay the true costs of the resources they use than is going in benefits.
   WWF is a direct subsidy from businesses who succeed to those who are marginal. Not to mention outfits, like the casual labour suppliers and fast food joints, who rely on tax payer paid benefits to their employees to enable their business model.

   A successful economy has a decent standard of living for everyone.

   A GMFI would help the formation of new innovative business as well as getting away from the idea that an economy has to have everyone in paid work 70 hours a week.

   People could have a go in starting new sustainable business without worrying about their family having to live on nothing while they get a business up and running. Unfortunately corporates do not want the competition..

   A lot of jobs we have now are costing us more than they earn. http://kjt-kt.blogspot.com/2011/02/how-banking-destroys-economy.html

   We are also unable to continue to carry the majority of the wealthy, who consume resources at a greater rate than everyone else, but contribute little.

   We are able to have a successful economy which supplies a reasonable standard of living and is sustainable without working the hours we do. There is a lot of waste due to the need for interest and banking profits, off shoring money earned by workers here and dysfunctional money maximizing strategies like planned obsolescence.
   • Draco T Bastard 8.1

     2 November 2011 at 12:18 pm

     +1

     If we had a rational economy that was being used to benefit everyone then the amount of work per capita required would be low and decreasing. Instead it’s high and increasing.
9. AAMC 9

   2 November 2011 at 10:01 am

   Here it comes NZ….

   http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/2011/11/01/there-goes-the-neighbourhood/

   http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/11/australia-cuts-rate-25-core-inflation.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MishsGlobalEconomicTrendAnalysis+%28Mish%27s+Global+Economic+Trend+Analysis%29
10. lprent 10

    2 November 2011 at 10:24 am

    On a side issue about things going wrong – does anyone know what is going on at Kiwiblog. I got notified via e-mail about Open Parachute putting up their monthly blog rankings for October last night.

    Visit Rank	Blog	Visits/month	Page Views/month
    1	Kiwiblog	251558	341158
    2	The Standard	180538	412418

    Leaving aside the religious questions of if visits are a good way to rank sites bearing in mind the vagaries of how they are measured in different stats packages*

    Anyway – there about the same number of page views at KB last month (342k) in an election season on a political blog.

    Whereas this month we’re about 412k page views and last month we were 311k page views (bloody Rugby World Cup! Every time there was a big game our readership went down – including in October).

    Why did we go up by 30 odd percent and KB actually went down? You’d have to ask if kiwiblog can be classed as a political blog anymore

    * We have between 120k visits and 220k visits last month on different packages – all it really does to define what time length each uses for a ‘visit’. Somehow according to the “visits” KB is getting just over 1 page view per visit, while we’re getting just over 2 page views per visit. I can understand people wanting to avoid reading the comments at the sewer and you can do so at KB. But that is a hell of a difference between the two sites considering that there is a significant proportion of our readers come in via search engines and only read 1 page (about 25%). Also many people surf sideways between posts here rather than going up to home and down to another post (I usually do myself).
    • Deuto 10.1

      2 November 2011 at 10:45 am

      I used to visit/view KB regularly (quite why I don’t know!) and also WO from time to time but have not bothered in recent months due to the low level of comments etc – its also saved a lot in hot water costs from the need to shower afterwards!
      • KJT 10.1.1

        2 November 2011 at 10:50 am

        Very occasionally, but the commentators are getting more rabid and divorced from reality as time goes on. Even PG looks good compared with the others on there.

        Serves an important social function I suppose. Gives a place for those with subnormal intelligence to vent.
    • thejackal 10.2

      2 November 2011 at 11:08 am

      There are sites that refer multiple urls and spike hits/visits. This will usually be directed at the homepage and not any sub pages.

      The interesting thing here is that it’s usually unsavory sites that utilize logging technology sending multiple referring urls to try and get administrators to click on the link generated in their stats page. Admins click the link to find out who is generating so much traffic. That in turn makes the referring site higher ranking.

      The fact that Kiwibog has far more visits while The Standard has far more page views statistically shows that Kiwibog users are visiting more unsavory sites than The Standard community is. Basically Kiwibog users are a bunch of wankers… but we all knew that already.
      • lprent 10.2.1

        2 November 2011 at 12:31 pm

        We get them pointing to just about any page.Those mostly get swallowed by the anti-spam engine automatically.

        We don’t get many spam in the main stream per day – last month the false negatives (missed spam) left by akismet were 42….

        Spam detected 10,577 (bad comments)
        Ham detected 48,698 (good comments)
        Missed spam 42 (ones marked as spam which we not)
        False positives 74 (ones we marked as spam)

        The comments include pingbacks, trackbacks, and reedited comments.

        The left over visible spam are about 10-40 of them per day that we just sort the false positives put – Randal’s comments (for some reason he always gets put in spam – I guess there is a sysop around who really really didn’t like him) and whoever else legit gets trapped there. We feed the rest to the spam engine.

        As well as the junk links (pingbacks / trackbacks) you’re referring to, there are the machine generated lauding messages with the spammers URL on the handle, the comments with links in, and other spam including those from people who are banned and the first time messages for ‘new’ commentators who didn’t met the minimum standard.

        We consider our feeding of all of these to akismet for grinding to be part of our contribution to ridding the net of parasites and uncivilized irritants. It uses such contributions to steadily move such people into spam collection across almost all wordpress sites.

        I don’t click through on any link except for the occasional one that looks like it might be legit, then through an anonymizing browser, and with the net equivalent of a condom in terms of protection. But we don’t receive nearly as many links since I told .htaccess all of the main IP ranges in china, russia, and a couple of other countries and said they could not send pingbacks or trackbacks.

        Currently…

        Akismet has protected your site from 102,023 spam comments already.
        There’s 1 comment in your spam queue right now.

        12,119 spam comments have been automatically discarded by Conditional CAPTCHA.

        The latter looks comments if akismet thinks they would be suspect and asks for a captcha to be entered. This means that I was able to remove the captcha for everyone else….
    • mickysavage 10.3

      2 November 2011 at 11:08 am

      It is more and more a mouthpiece for the National Party and Farrar seems to be spending less and less time on it.  

      He is also missing really relevant stories whereas the Standard usually nails them.

      And the comments are pretty turgid and tend to involve mass repetitions of belligerent sound bites.  I post the occasional comment but there is no development of ideas the way the Standard is very capable of doing. 
    • Rob 10.4

      2 November 2011 at 2:24 pm

      Well you would have to ask Draco for his opinion on that one, evidently no one likes rugby in this country according to him.
11. just saying 11

    2 November 2011 at 10:38 am

    Does is it count the hours when people “park” the computer on a particular site, while they are away from the computer, or does the “meter’ stop when the computer goes into power saving mode?

    Just wondering
    • lprent 11.1

      2 November 2011 at 11:17 am

      The visits are based on picking up changes to page views, ie you have to change the page to keep your visit ‘active’.

      The page views are the same – done on one-time run javascript.

      So the meter stops until you press for another page. It maintains a ‘timer’ so if you have two page clicks within a set timeframe, then it counts them as being part of a single visit. Generally that time is set between 5 and 30 minutes – I think we we use the defaults. On a page with a few comments you jump between posts pretty fast depending on your reading speed. I have been on a page for 15 minutes where the comments have gotten up to a few hundred, and even 30-60 minutes if I am writing comments.

      Doing a comment causes a page reload – which is another page view.

      This site has quite a few stat counters that are triggered from one-time run when page is presented javascript in the front page, post pages and information pages only. From memory it runs wordpress stats (used by authors from the dashboard), google analytics (our account each for admin analysis, scoop advertising, and funnell advertising), statcounter (for OpenParachute who wants an public data source), and finally Nielson (for scoop advertising). They all use different timers for visits and giver different results.

      It also runs a wordpress backend stats Wassup to track ALL the page lookups including RSS, spambots, spiders, and those bloody annoying idiots who seem to want to pull off entire copies of the site (apart from National Library of course). That is so I can look at overall site performance.

      There is AwStats which runs on the server logs. I use that to look for excessive data movements from the site. In particular repeated downloads of overweight graphics and IP’s that seem to have an obsessive interest in the site (yes I do know who you are…).

      Finally, I run external monitors that look for data transmission spikes (ie the odd maniac with a lousy scanner trying to read the whole site, and the possibility of denial of service attacks) and drops in the total internet traffic, and the web server disappearing

      The latter was what finally woke me up this morning after it couldn’t talk to the server anymore. My phone started vibrating insistently.
      • calltoaccount 11.1.1

        2 November 2011 at 12:34 pm

        Hi LP. Does google show a much different figure to aw stats? Would google be at the bottom and aw at the top of your range?

        And how is a visit to just the homepage handled in terms of time on site, given you say “the meter stops until you press for another page”? If the reader stays on home, no clicks, and leaves much later, maybe by clicking a new tab on the browser, is this treated as a visit of 0 seconds by google, or longer? How is it done?

        Great and appreciated work on your blog!
        • lprent 11.1.1.1

          2 November 2011 at 12:54 pm

          Awstats shows everything including all of the images, javascript, css, etc. We usually have millions of hits per day on that. You can’t really measure anything off that apart from actual volumes because it has no idea what is a page or what is a item like an image on a page..

          It also reports all of the spiders (search engine scans) and spambots

          Wassup does the same kind of thing but just for wordpress pages. Over the last 24 hours according to that we have had

          total 67304 pageviews and 12541 visits
          of which it thinks 44891 / 4926 were spiders and 6869 / 312 were spambots

          Spiders and spambots shouldn’t be counted in any stats apart from those that are looking at server performance. They have nothing to do with humans.

          BTW: That spambot figure dropped by 90% after I stopped some countries giving trackbacks and pingbacks.

          Which leaves it moderately close to the 19.9k page views and 9k page views that statcounter reported for yesterday (statcounter seems slightly higher on page views than Wassup).
          • calltoaccount 11.1.1.1.1

            2 November 2011 at 1:01 pm

            And how would a homepage only ‘time on site’ be handled by google stats packages. As zero or longer somehow? How would it know without a new link being clicked?
            • lprent 11.1.1.1.1.1

              2 November 2011 at 1:04 pm

              Have to have two or more page views to figure out a time. So a single view would show as one page view, zero time on site.

              That is why the stats packages show such low values for time per visit. Search engine referrals are usually a single page

              My site also binds all clickouts via a link on the site to elsewhere – but only for google analytics and wordpress stats. That is so I can pick up stats on where people are clicking to.

              Side effect is that provides a second time point. Doesn’t help if they clicked on a favourite or typed in their own URL.
              • calltoaccount …

                2 November 2011 at 1:08 pm

                Otherwise it shows as zero time on site for that visitor I guess?? This would explain things if so! I’ll do some lunchtime research… 😉
12. thejackal 12

    2 November 2011 at 10:42 am

    Redneck – Asshole of the Week Award

    I’m not sure why the New Zealand Police didn’t move to disband the Occupy protest in Dunedin last night after a trespass notice was issued. Perhaps the Police are leaving the protestors alone because we’re currently entrenched within an election campaign and manhandling peaceful protestors is not a good look…
    • Colonial Viper 12.1

      2 November 2011 at 10:49 am

      They said they were dealing with drunks at the races.
    • Jenny 12.2

      2 November 2011 at 11:37 am

      Jackal, You said that the well dressed white male who assaulted the peaceful protesters and vandalised their property was arrested by the police. Do you know if he was charged?

      When will he appear?

      Who was he?

      Was he a banker, or financier?

      Did he have links to the Council?

      Was he incited to violence by the council’s openly intolerant attitude and over the top escalation?

      If the police do not act to charge this individual, will the police be asked if civilian vigilante actions will also be tolerated in any police action to clear the square?
      • thejackal 12.2.1

        2 November 2011 at 12:18 pm

        Yes! He’s been charged. I can’t answer your other questions just yet but would presume he’s either incited to act violently by what the Council has been doing or what other hate mongers have been saying.
        • One Anonymous Bloke 12.2.1.1

          2 November 2011 at 12:21 pm

          What’s his name?
          • AAMC 12.2.1.1.1

            2 November 2011 at 12:34 pm

            He just looked pissed to me, acting on behalf of the cops who didn’t show up, and got carted off by them instead for a head but.
            • One Anonymous Bloke 12.2.1.1.1.1

              2 November 2011 at 12:37 pm

              Wouldn’t it be nice if that were the case – just the booze talking. Unfortunately, his behaviour is more reminiscent of that of a committed authoritarian follower.
              • AAMC …

                2 November 2011 at 2:56 pm

                Yeah, pissed authoritarian. Even worse. Sorry, should hbe clarified that…
          • Mutante 12.2.1.1.2

            2 November 2011 at 1:34 pm

            It wasn’t our Petey was it?
          • Ianupnorth 12.2.1.1.3

            2 November 2011 at 4:35 pm

            Pete George?
            • mik e 12.2.1.1.3.1

              2 November 2011 at 6:46 pm

              PG He was playing a gig there as a one man band
    • Penny Bright 12.3

      2 November 2011 at 12:24 pm

      Last night I advised the Dunedin folk of s155 (3) of the Local Government Act 2002 – which states: No bylaw may be made which is inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990, notwithstanding section 4 of that Act.”

      http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2002/0084/latest/DLM173401.html?search=ts_act_Local+Government+Act+2002_resel&p=1#DLM173401

      Determination whether bylaw made under this Act is appropriate

      (1AA) This section applies to a bylaw only if it is made under this Act.

      (1) A local authority must, before commencing the process for making a bylaw, determine whether a bylaw is the most appropriate way of addressing the perceived problem.

      (2) If a local authority has determined that a bylaw is the most appropriate way of addressing the perceived problem, it must, before making the bylaw, determine whether the proposed bylaw—

      (a) is the most appropriate form of bylaw; and

      (b) gives rise to any implications under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990.

      (3) No bylaw may be made which is inconsistent with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990, notwithstanding section 4 of that Act.

      Section 155 heading: amended, on 28 June 2006, by section 16(1) of the Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Act 2006 (2006 No 26).

      Section 155(1AA): inserted, on 28 June 2006, by section 16(2) of the Local Government Act 2002 Amendment Act 2006 (2006 No 26).
      _____________________________________________________________________

      If you don’t know your rights – you don’t have any.
      If you don’t defend the rights you’re supposed to have – you lose them.

      Penny Bright
      Independent Candidate for Epsom
13. Campbell Larsen 13

    2 November 2011 at 10:53 am

    Quick analysis of Herald stories/ headlines:

    ‘Cradle to job que’ – headline sets up later attack line ‘breeding for a business’
    ‘Off to work – key delivers his welfare message’ suggestive of a paternalistic tone adopted when an errant child is being naughty – not an actual quote despite being in quotation marks.
    ‘Optimistic home sellers…’ paper substitutes a real estate salesperson for an economist and tries to tell us that there is rising economic confidence – hah.
    ‘Asian voters back Key’ – sample size of 36 – a poll like that should be laughed out of the room.
    ‘Focus groups provide perfect platform for PMs utterances’ – more correct would be focus groups source of PMs utterances. Pagini once again betrays the left by trotting out the old meem that Labour is not listening to popular opinion and by claiming that the assertion ‘the county would be better if only things had been done better’ is ‘counter-factual’ Finishes with the disempowering suggestion that a small group of people in a focus group will decide all.
    ‘Nationals stance on welfare not as tough as it seems’ Headline frames issue.
    ‘Intent serious, but drip feeding defuses accusations of bullying’ WTF a gradual roll out during a campaign does not change the policies one iota, gradual bullying is still bullying.
    John Armstrong up to his usual tricks stating that the Nats are demonstrating that they focused on ‘issues that matter to voters’ (a line that could have come from Shonkey himself) when in fact beneficiary bashing has rather a limited audience of enthusiastic followers and when of greater concern to most is the the state of the economy. He goes on to state ‘National is serious about welfare reform’ – again another line that could have come from National party HQ and finishes with suggesting that people should not/ need not fee, that it is beneficiary bashing because the extremist policies are being drip fed to the public.
    ‘Key spends on a Drunken Sailor’ article an excuse to reiterate Shonkeys boorish attempts in the debate to big up himself insult Phil Goff and Labour – more try hard references to celebrities and finishes with Shonkeys nauseating comparison between rugby and welfare reform.
    ‘life is good in godzone’ another small sample size (8550) poll trying to tell us that 9 out of 10 NZers are satisfied with their lives – FFS – NZ has more than eight and a half thousand people in it. These rubbish polls are not news.
    ‘Rena expected to break up in rising swell’ – disaster media again –
    Ritchie growing a mo – series of pictures and lots of talk about mo styles but bugger all info about movember ostensibly the reason for the whole article. Size of piece is larger by 25% than the piece on welfare advocacy groups response to Nats welfare policy.
    Shame on you Herald – do you really think that when Shonkeys mates are drunkenly boasting at functions with him about their control over your newspaper that people don’t hear? Not that the admission is required – it is written in plain text on almost every page
    • Tigger 13.1

      2 November 2011 at 11:40 am

      I had exactly the same thought CL. Today’s newspapers seemed particularly tory – no doubt the editors have been told by their right wing masters to push back against Labour making ground on National.

      And all time the press will boast that it’s perfectly free and how great self-regulation is.
    • KJT 13.2

      2 November 2011 at 12:13 pm

      I suspect that both Parties focus groups come up with the answers that swing voters are particularly influenced by issues such as crime, “bludging beneficiaries”, union bashing and dog whistles to racists. Hence the reluctance to take positive leadership on these issues.
14. prism 14

    2 November 2011 at 10:55 am

    The international financial markets are all upset because of the lack of strength in sovereign
    currencies such as in Greece. Strange how countries have to provide the stable parameters of the ‘game’ that ‘financial players’ operate in then circumvent in every way possible.

    Seems the whole basis of the financial world is built on government rules and financial design sort of like a world sports body that gives continuity and legitimacy to the game. Pity that there is so little effort to control the probity of the dealings of the players. We could do with more revelations and punishments as has been handed out to Pakistan’s erring cricketing match fixers. And uncovered by News of the World which seems a good scoop but too late to use it to defend against claims that it showed disgraceful and embarrassing lack of journalistic integrity.
    • Draco T Bastard 14.1

      2 November 2011 at 12:47 pm

      Seems the whole basis of the financial world is built on government rules and financial design sort of like a world sports body that gives continuity and legitimacy to the game.

      That’s exactly what it is. The psychopaths got in control several centuries ago and have written the rules to benefit them. The only way we can bring the economy back to rationality is to dump the present rules and replace them with ones that actually work.
15. prism 15

    2 November 2011 at 11:16 am

    The Courts have found against the man who helped his mother to die. He has been put through this trial because we have an irresponsible parliament that couldn’t deal with the reality of people living longer than they want but without any legal option to choose when to die.

    If government really respected life and people they would have brought in a working group after the close vote in 2003 of 60 to 57 for. Their resulting considerations would have been sent to all people prior to a referendum. But no – our elected representatives like to have control and power but can’t bring themselves to even inform and canvass the public. So we have a lot of stale-mates in parliament.

    From wikipedia under ‘ euthanasia bill’.
    In 1995 Michael Laws championed the unsuccessful Death with Dignity Bill, which aimed to legalise voluntary euthanasia. The terminal illness of Cam Campion, a colleague in Laws’ first term in Parliament, prompted this advocacy. It failed by 61 votes against and 29 for the Bill.[11]

    Peter Brown, when he was an MP for the New Zealand First political party, introduced a Death with Dignity Bill in 2003, but it was defeated by 60 to 57 votes.[12] Brown became an advocate for euthanasia after his wife died of cancer in 1984.

    It is also illegal to ‘aid and abet suicide’ under Section 179 of the New Zealand Crimes Act 1961
16. randal 16

    2 November 2011 at 11:19 am

    KJT. farrar just wants the BRT job now and to hell with KB.
    • just saying 16.1

      2 November 2011 at 11:27 am

      R.
      What’s BRT?
      -JS
      • Campbell Larsen 16.1.1

        2 November 2011 at 11:32 am

        I’m guessing business round table….
        • just saying 16.1.1.1

          2 November 2011 at 11:41 am

          That’s a job?
          • Campbell Larsen 16.1.1.1.1

            2 November 2011 at 11:52 am

            More like a reward for services rendered. Betraying your country and selling your soul is usually rewarded with a patsy appointment of some description.
17. Penny Bright 17

    2 November 2011 at 11:31 am

    NATIONAL/ACT – ‘soft’ on ‘white collar crime?

    hmmmm…………. wonder why that is?

    How many members of the NZ voting public familiar with the ‘Huljich Kiwisaver Scheme’ Registered Prospectus dated 18 September 2009, signed by each of the directors of Huljich Wealth Management (New Zealand) Limited as promoters of the Sheme): Peter Karl Christopher Hulich, Donald Thomas Brash and John Archibald Banks, which contained ‘misstatements’ in the form of graphs which compared “..the performance of the Huljich Kiwisaver Funds to other Kiwisaver funds from the start of Kiwisaver to 9 September 2009″?

    How many members of the voting public are familiar with s 58 of the Securities Act 1978 ?

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1978/0103/latest/DLM29406.html?search=ts_act_Securities+Act+1978_resel&p=1#DLM29406

    58 Criminal liability for misstatement in advertisement or registered prospectus

    (1) Subject to subsection (2) of this section, where an advertisement that includes any untrue statement is distributed,—

    (a) the issuer of the securities referred to in the advertisement, if an individual; or

    (b) if the issuer of the securities is a body, every director thereof at the time the advertisement is distributed—

    commits an offence.

    (2) No person shall be convicted of an offence under subsection (1) of this section if the person proves either that the statement was immaterial or that he or she had reasonable grounds to believe, and did, up to the time of the distribution of the advertisement, believe that the statement was true.

    (3) Subject to subsection (4) of this section, where a registered prospectus that includes an untrue statement is distributed, every person who signed the prospectus, or on whose behalf the registered prospectus was signed for the purposes of section 41(1)(b) of this Act, commits an offence.

    (4) No person shall be convicted of an offence under subsection (3) of this section if the person proves either that the statement was immaterial or that he or she had reasonable grounds to believe, and did, up to the time of the distribution of the prospectus, believe that the statement was true.

    (5) Every person who commits an offence against this section is liable—

    (a) on conviction on indictment to—

    (i) imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years; or

    (ii) a fine not exceeding $300,000 and, if the offence is a continuing one, to a further fine not exceeding $10,000 for every day or part of a day during which the offence is continued; or

    (b) on summary conviction to—

    (i) imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months; or

    (ii) a fine not exceeding $300,000 and, if the offence is a continuing one, to a further fine not exceeding $10,000 for every day or part of a day during which the offence is continued.

    ____________________________________________________________________________

    What I want to know is why Don Brash and John Banks were not equally charged along with fellow Director of Huljich Wealth Management (New Zealand) Ltd, Peter Huljich.

    Penny Bright
    Candidate for Epsom.
    Campaigning against ‘white collar’ crime, corruption (and its root cause – privatisation) and ‘corporate welfare.
    • mik e 17.1

      2 November 2011 at 6:50 pm

      What about the pyramid scheme that huljich are also selling as part of their portfolio the super vitamin pill that they were multilevel marketing the pill was tested at an independent lab and found to be completely useless. Not unlike Act and brash
18. AAMC 18

    2 November 2011 at 11:40 am

    Now they’re inventing alternative currencies and a Permanank @ #OWS

    http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUK52931037820111031?irpc=932
19. ianmac 19

    2 November 2011 at 11:43 am

    Eathquake felt here in Blenheim 11:42. Hope it was not too severe elsewhere?
    • r0b 19.1

      2 November 2011 at 11:45 am

      Didn’t feel it in Dunedin. Waiting for Geonet…
    • r0b 19.2

      2 November 2011 at 11:49 am

      Seems to have been strongly felt in Wellington, so Chch probably spared this time.
      • ianmac 19.2.1

        2 November 2011 at 12:01 pm

        4.9 30 km south east of Blenheim. Glad was not an echo of a major one.
    • Deuto 19.3

      2 November 2011 at 12:00 pm

      So I wasn’t dreaming it. Not listed on Geonet yet, but quick flick through the drums indicate it was centred lower north Island or west of it, as Hawkes Bay drums show little as do the Mid and lower SI ones, but shows strongly on upper SI and lower and west NI ones.
      • r0b 19.3.1

        2 November 2011 at 12:03 pm

        Interesting – can you post a link to these drums?
        • Deuto 19.3.1.1

          2 November 2011 at 12:13 pm

          http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/drums

          Hope this link works. They are on the Geonet website, under Earthquakes. There is a map of NZ on the right and if you click on the individual drum sites, it will take you to the reading for that drum.
          • r0b 19.3.1.1.1

            2 November 2011 at 12:30 pm

            Ahh – thanks for that!
20. AAMC 20

    2 November 2011 at 11:50 am

    Greek govt firing its army, navy and air force chiefs.
    http://www.athensnews.gr/portal/8/49916
21. Tigger 21

    2 November 2011 at 12:46 pm

    Good to see racism at St Bede’s being dealt to. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10763319

    So let’s see the same treatement for homophobia. Was researching just what the heck the St Bede’s boys had done to deserve this and found this clip on YouTube – seems someone thinks racism is inappropriate but homophobia is fine.
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7262705509765361016

    Double standards people. And when Key is telling everyone that equal rights for gays don’t matter (course he has time to bet on horses) then things will only get worse.
    • ianmac 21.1

      2 November 2011 at 1:56 pm

      A friend had her son as a Year 9 border at St Bedes. She found that the youngest borders were taunted and bullied. She complained to the Housemaster but he laughed and said that the boys sort it out and that learning to cope was good for them. The lad’s dream was that if he survived till next year or two, then he would become the bully instead of the bullied. The mother shifted the lad to Nelson College.
22. vto 22

    2 November 2011 at 12:53 pm

    The national party is not the party of business it is the party of investors. So often the two terms are co-joined and the impression given is that they are one and the same. They are not.

    Being a professional investor is entirely different from being a professional business person.

    Remember that next time someone claims that the likes of Key, Carter, Smith, etc know all about business. They don’t. They have never done it. Key certainly hasn’t – he has been employed and then become an investor. Similarly Carter with his inherited weath.

    Investors operate on an entirely different MO than businesses.

    The distinction is important, but often muddled.
23. thejackal 23

    2 November 2011 at 2:38 pm

    Key Lies about GST

    Just in case you haven’t seen the video yet where John Key categorically stated in 2008 that National would not raise the goods and services tax…
    • prism 23.1

      2 November 2011 at 3:57 pm

      I heard that Key denied that he was raising GST to pay down debt, or something specific. He said he wasn’t. He wasn’t going to pay down debt, he meant. He never said that he wouldn’t raise GST.

      It’s another example of how a question which is hung onto another question is open to misinterpretation. The one I particularly hate is the public referendum that indicated agreement with harsher and longer penalties of criminals, when I think there were 3 parts to the question and no clear way of stating the particular opinion for each one. This was really bad drafting in a politically charged and sensitive situation.
24. Lanthanide 24

    2 November 2011 at 2:54 pm

    Party lists are out: http://www.elections.org.nz/elections/candidates-and-parties/party-lists.html

    Interestingly National has only 65 spots on its list. I believe that should the list run out of candidates, the remaining party vote is wasted and the party cannot add additional names to the list after the election.

    This means National can have a maximum of 65 MPs in parliament. This corresponds to a maximum party vote of 54.16%. I guess in a case where they won 60% and 40% went to everyone else, that there’d simply be a shortfall of 5.83% or 7 seats, and parliament would have 113 members (barring overhang) instead of the usual 120. 65/113 would still only be 57.5% of the seats, so they’d still be in a worse position.

    I guess they just ran out of talent?
    • queenstfarmer 24.1

      2 November 2011 at 3:40 pm

      The elections site, for some unknown reason, only lists up to 65 candidates. Labour’s list actually has 70 people, while National’s has 75:

      http://www.labour.org.nz/sites/labour.org.nz/files/labour-party-list-2011.pdf
      http://www.national.org.nz/Article.aspx?articleId=36978

      Regarldless, I personally would not consider being on the list as evidence of “talent”.
      • mik e 24.1.1

        2 November 2011 at 6:51 pm

        When it comes to national you’d be right of course
25. joe90 25

    2 November 2011 at 3:30 pm

    Some links:

    http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/10/31/357559/richmond-police-use-bulldozers-to-erase-occupy-richmond/

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/01/occupy-wall-street-security_n_1069597.html

    http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/10/31/357262/new-york-police-are-redirecting-drunks-and-aggressive-people-to-occupy-protest/

    http://www.salon.com/2011/10/24/homelessness_becomes_an_ows_issue/singleton/
    • joe90 25.1

      2 November 2011 at 7:09 pm

      More:

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/nov/01/bishop-london-st-pauls-legal-action

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/nov/01/st-pauls-corporation-occupy-camp

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/31/corporation-london-city-medieval

      https://twitter.com/#!/susie_c/status/131210601161695233/photo/1 (strange)

      http://www.jobparty.us/bloomberg_his_super_committee_buddies_hear_from_the_99
26. Ianupnorth 26

    2 November 2011 at 4:37 pm

    Anyone care to comment on the legal status of the following?
    1) National banners nailed on to the fences of public reserves?
     
    2) National MP’s agents sending out recommendations to government departments to purchase this programme? http://www.eatforkeeps.com/
     
27. Morrissey 27

    2 November 2011 at 4:40 pm

    WANKER WALLOPING
    John Pagani grows a pair at last and slams hypocrite on air
    National Radio “The Panel”, Wednesday 2 November 2011

    4:17 p.m. Hard right nasty old politician MICHAEL BASSETT indulges himself in a swingeing rant against the Poverty Action Coalition and other groups which he labels “the welfare industry.” Fellow Panelist ELLY JONES simply mumbles her assent to what he says, and host JIM MORA, radiating his usual bonhomie and complaisance, says nothing.

    4:19 p.m. Suddenly the sleepy studio comes to life. To comment on the proposed welfare reforms, the guest is JOHN PAGANI. Now, people who are foolish or bored or unfortunate enough to listen to NewstalkZB will be well familiar with Pagani, and will know that he customarily plays the role of fall-guy for the likes of Paul Holmes, Bill Ralston and Larry Williams. This time, though, he comes on like the French football team came on against England in the Quarter-finals….

    PAGANI: I heard what Michael Bassett had to say. I’d like to ask him a question.

    BASSETT: Y-y-yeeeesss…

    PAGANI: Do you pull a parliamentary pension?

    BASSETT: Yes I do.

    PAGANI: Well, you’re hoovering up public money and—-

    BASSETT: Money that I paid into that scheme for YEARS at twice the normal rate! You weren’t LISTENING, that’s your problem!

    Sadly, at this point, Jim Mora felt it incumbent on himself to step in and protect the old reptile from Pagani’s onslaught, and the rest of the exchange was thus rendered lifeless and dull. However, it was a telling moment, and it was entertaining to witness that old fool being forced to abandon his entirely bogus air of affability.
28. vto 28

    2 November 2011 at 5:05 pm

    Yep, corporate welfare.

    What about someone’s business that suffers due to a car crash, do they get compensation? Or some other misfortune? I mean, how does John Key judge these things? Is it just on a whim depending on the vote-sniff of the day?

    It is bullshit. It is exactly like the attitude exhibited by Michael Bassett on Natradio this afternoon….

    Bassettt complained that beneficiaries work the system to their advantage… Perhaps they are following the lead from Parliamentarians like Bassett, who have worked the system themselves forever to their advantage by, for example, voting themselves the best gold-plated retirement scheme in the country, and pay rises every single year which outstrip the rest of the public service, all done in the dead of night just prior to some long weekend or holiday.

    Talk about working the system. Perhaps they learnt from the likes of you Bassett you stinky hypocrite.

    Just like Key working the system to encourage votes by offering highly selective welfare to those businesses in locations where the scale of the misfortune of the day may discourage votes for the incumbent.

    I can’t stand people like Bassett when they apply one standard to themselves and another standard to others.

    edit: i replied to a post of mr draco’s re welfare for businesses affected by the oil spill, but its disappeared…
    • Draco T Bastard 28.1

      2 November 2011 at 6:42 pm

      This Article. It’s about Tauranga businesses getting government handouts due to the Rena Disaster which should, of course, be covered by the private business insurance and the insurance that the Rena held. We shouldn’t be paying for it except through normal social welfare assistance.
29. ianmac 29

    2 November 2011 at 6:55 pm

    The Press Leaders Debate tonight from 7pm seems to going to be a much better format than TV 1
    Live streaming:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/election-2011/5886919/Live-stream-The-Press-leaders-debate
    • ianmac 29.1

      2 November 2011 at 8:05 pm

      And at least they have the chance to discuss topics in depth. So far mostly Ch Ch Earthquake. Next Economics. Far superior format than TV1 used. Engrossed.
30. RedLogix 30

    2 November 2011 at 7:09 pm

    After the surprise announcement to hold a referendum vote on the latest EU bailout package for Greece, LPAC sources in Europe have just been informed that Greek Prime Minister Papandreou has just replaced ALL the heads of the armed services’ branches. No explanations have yet been offered, although it is understood that the military has been very upset with Papandreou. Chiefs of staff of the Greek National Defence, Army General and Air Force have are all reported to have been fired. Greece is a NATO country, and those being appointed to the posts just vacated by Greek military leaders mostly have NATO experience. This is a totally extraordinary development, which could unfold very rapidly over the next hours.

    http://www.larouchepac.com/node/20120

    Interesting. Is Papandreou about to default on the debt and tell the EU where to shove it?
    • joe90 30.1

      2 November 2011 at 7:27 pm

      This has been brewing for months and could be the lead into a coup.

      But I think more than likely the military will be under the PM’s control and used to close the borders ahead of any default announcement.
      • KJT 30.1.1

        2 November 2011 at 8:23 pm

        Yeah. If they default there may be another Libya to protect banking interests.

        Helped along by the CIA as usual.
31. thejackal 31

    2 November 2011 at 7:40 pm

    The Press Council is Biased

    A while ago, I made a formal complaint to the Press Council concerning an article that was published in the Otago Daily Times…
32. gingercrush 32

    2 November 2011 at 8:12 pm

    lol the latest Horizon Poll results are laughable.
    • The Voice of Reason 32.1

      2 November 2011 at 8:36 pm

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idBhoV01ryo
       
      Separated at birth, gc?
33. Jenny 33

    2 November 2011 at 9:37 pm

    France Germany and the US have been putting extreme diplomatic pressure on the Greek government not to proceed with a referendum on a Eurozone bailout that comes with conditions for extreme austerity.

    It is possible that recent CIA talk of a coup in Greece could be part of that pressure.

    The CIA talks up the possibility of a military coup for Greece.

    But as in Chile, if the Banksters and their local and foreign investors don’t get their way, history shows that they won’t shrink from using violence to impose their will if they feel they have to.

    The CIA talk of a possible coup comes amid news that Euro leaders and the Whitehouse are appalled at Greek plans to allow a democratic referendum on the Euro bailout. The terms of the bailout demand that Greece must impose extreme austerity measures on it’s people.

    If as is likely, the Greek people democratically decide to reject the bailout, banks will be allowed to fail, Greece will default on it’s foreign debt and Greece will probably “exit” the European Union.

    The banksters fear is that if Greece is not made an example of, that countries like Italy and Portugal may also decide to default.
34. Cin77 34

    2 November 2011 at 9:50 pm

    Lol, is anyone watching Back benches? Theres this chick standing behind the guy with the loudest microphone (I don’t know his name and cbf finding out) wearing an “I’m a key person” t shirt, glasses and the one of the most nasty faces I’ve ever seen. She’s so much fun to watch, every now and then she makes this face like she wants to claw someones eyes out. I think its the person to her right with the Labour sign. Its better than tennis!
35. millsy 35

    2 November 2011 at 10:52 pm

    Garth McVicar seems to think that axing welfare will some how bring an end to crime.

    I would love to ask him if he would last long having a walk in the welfare-free slums of Rio de Janiero, or Bombay/Mumbai.

    Or if he has read accounts of 19th century London, Sydney, or even Auckland.

    He needs to ask himself if we really want to return to workhouses, baby farms (laudanum is complementary), and the endless slums. Indeed all of those on the right.

    Not really keen on Colin Craig and the Conservatives. Theyll take us back to divorce courts, recriminalised homosexuality, slut-shaming and back-street abortions, and state interference in the sexual activites of consenting adults. Theyll probably throw evolution out of our schools as well.
    • Morrissey 35.1

      3 November 2011 at 12:04 am

      Garth McVicar seems to think that axing welfare…

      It’s a matter of public record that Garth McVicar believes it’s perfectly acceptable to take an axe to welfare recipients, and his S.S. organization will wholeheartedly support anyone who feels he has to take such a step.
      • mik e 35.1.1

        3 November 2011 at 1:23 am

        axing wllfare will lead to more crime so mcvicar can lockmup and throw away Key
36. thejackal 36

    3 November 2011 at 8:09 am

    Sistema – Hero of the Week Award

    That’s why it was nice to read this weeks Listener that published the story Take a bow. Geraldine Johns writes about Sistema Aotearoa, a musical teaching programme run for children in Otara. It’s free and open for children aged six and seven who live within walking distance of the Otara Music Centre…

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