Open Mike 03/10/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 3rd, 2017 - 53 comments
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53 comments on “Open Mike 03/10/2017 ”

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  1. Adrian Thornton 1
    3 October 2017 at 8:35 am

    Matthew Hooton finally sees the light and in a moment of rare clarity, says out loud what he has always known to be the truth….

    ‘As I think we can all agree, National is a party with no principles’

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/201860778/political-commentators-matthew-hooton-and-stephen-mills

    • Ant 1.1
      3 October 2017 at 8:43 am

      Add P. Gower’s ‘I’m ashamed to be reporting on my government’s dishonesty’ or words to that effect (concerning the hole and the tax lie). Now if a few MSM could take heart and run with the ball the incentive to honest government might just get a boost.

      • Pete 1.1.1
        3 October 2017 at 10:15 am

        Gower is so ashamed to report on his government’s dishonest he hardly ever mentions it, lets most of it pass and deals with the perpetrators on a regular basis as is they’re regular people rather than people who have no basis on which to be treated as if what they say is important.

    • tc 1.2
      3 October 2017 at 9:06 am

      He’d know alot about having few principles does Matty.

      Shame and honesty is not something they share alot of either being effectively echo chambers of the right.

    • Wensleydale 1.3
      3 October 2017 at 12:01 pm

      Better late than never I guess. Although, the statement would probably carry more weight if it were being uttered by almost anyone other than Matthew Hooton. It’s like a liar saying, “I don’t like that guy. He tells lies.”

    • rhinocrates 1.4
      3 October 2017 at 12:09 pm

      Of course Hoots knows the value of principles – he always tries to get the highest price for them.

  2. adam 2
    3 October 2017 at 8:46 am

    There use to be a strain on the left that was anti-war. That would appear all but dead if you read this web site, and many other left web sites.

    Here the thing, I don’t want our troops in Afghanistan, and I definitely don’t want our troops in Iraq.

    I oppose the increase of troops to Afghanistan and what are we actually doing in Iraq? We were suppose to be in a training role, but that got exposed when one of our own ordered the use of white phosphorous on a civilian population.

    There use to be an anti-war left.

    • Heather Grimwood 2.2
      3 October 2017 at 9:02 am

      To Adam at 2: and many of us, now augmented by the younger generations, remain ‘the anti-war left’. A change in government hopefully will see New Zealand lead again in its anti-war stance.

    • RedLogix 2.3
      3 October 2017 at 9:05 am

      There use to be a strain on the left that was anti-war.

      I was working on a RNZN ship (as a civilian) at the exact time of the Falklands war. Astounding how many people expressed an enthusiastic desire to be actively involved when I was onshore, and how much more sober the response on board the ship.

      Still it’s all very well being ‘anti-war’; but in isolation it’s not a sentiment that achieves much which is durable. There will always be tyrants and opportunistic militarists; the wolf unconstrained will always devour the flock.

      The same rule-based mechanisms that constrain crime in any community … laws, courts and police … are the only means by which wars among the community of nations will be stopped. Bluntly that means some form of federated global governance; a UN that is empowered to work as it’s founders wished for.

      Yes there used to be an anti-war left; not surprising as it was always the working class who bore the brunt of the awful losses, but it was also inter-woven with an Internationalist movement that was far more outward looking. Helen Clark would be a fine person to look towards for inspiration.

      • Heather Grimwood 2.3.1
        3 October 2017 at 9:36 am

        to RedLogix at 2.3 : the anti-war left of your last paragraph is exactly the culture I envisage and fervently wish for……an organisation for defence ( though I can’t see this being a possible with our long coastline and more so through our relative inconsequence in global terms), for coping with civil disaster at home or for peacekeeping with definitely no aggressive role on the world scene.

        • Exkiwiforces 2.3.1.1
          3 October 2017 at 2:03 pm

          Sorry Heather,

          As someone who has done Peacekeeping real time we had to act in aggressive way to prevent a war crimes from being committed. Peacekeepers need to act not only in a defensive way, but also in a aggressive way within its ROE or OFOF thence the need for NZDF to trained in all aspects of UN Peacekeeping from Chapter 1 though to Chapter 7. If you want fully trained NZDF in Peacekeeping are you prepared to throw more money at NZDF than the 20 billion for re- equipment over the next 15yrs etc when other areas of the government have been ran into the ground?

          To me the benchmark for NZDF to under take any Peacekeeping task in the future was East Timor 99 (INTERFET) and the follow up UN mission.

          There has been a number of UN mandated Peacekeeping missions over the yr where Peacekeepings have acted in a aggressive way from use of Airpower aka the Congo in the early 60’s (Indian Airforce using Canberra bombers, the same type that the RNZAF once used and Swedish Airforce SAAB Fighter jets) or the Danish Armoured Battle group that was ambush by the Serbs in Bosnia who called out to help a Swedish Infantry Battalion which under attack from Serbs who were protected a Village from the Serbs. The sad reality is that UN Peacekeepers sometimes have to use aggressive force in order to protect lives from the aggressor who doesn’t give a two fucks about Human rights.

          Or would you prefer a passived defence Peacekeeping Force like what happened in Rwanda where the Belgian government pulled out its troops after a number of its troops were murdered and the UN turned a blind eye to the result mess that followed.

          I’m now paying for it for my time as Peacekeeper, as I now have Psychological issues (PTSD), lose a mate to UN Peacekeeping mission and another to a UN mandated one in the Solly’s where he was shot in the back. Is Peacekeeping worst than the Gan or Iraq?

        • Exkiwiforces 2.3.1.2
          3 October 2017 at 3:25 pm

          Also to add further to my post at 2:03pm,

          Since the NZ has gone down the rabbit hole of this Neo Liberal economic garbage along with it’s Trade Liberalism and fobbing off it’s SOE’s etc. NZ is more at risk to a war breaking out as NZ is a import/ export nation, so I wouldn’t call NZ a relative inconsequential nation at the ass end of the world from a trading POV and NZ is also regarded as the gateway to the Antarctic region.

          • RedLogix 2.3.1.2.1
            3 October 2017 at 10:09 pm

            If you read my comment above, the notion of a militarily effective peace-keeping force (analogous to the police but on a global scale) is absolutely implicit in what I was saying.

            Anti-war does NOT imply anti-military.

            George Orwell said it best: People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

            • Exkiwiforces 2.3.1.2.1.1
              3 October 2017 at 11:37 pm

              I was replying to Heather comments “peacekeeping with definitely no aggressive role on the world scene” as some people on the left don’t really understand what Peacekeeping is or are very naïve as Peacekeeping sounds so romantic where we don’t kill anyone and some answers I do get are so wide of the mark its not funny to a point. That wonder why do I bother putting on a uniform on also its gets me so angry that I drink myself stupid and waste a very good single malt whisky.

              I have George Orwell quote now in my study (was on my office door at work before I lost my marbles) along with Churchill’s quote “Jaw Jaw is better than War War.

              Like you I would like to see a rules base system international aggression on a follow country or countries.
              “The same rule-based mechanisms that constrain crime in any community … laws, courts and police … are the only means by which wars among the community of nations will be stopped. Bluntly that means some form of federated global governance; a UN that is empowered to work as it’s founders wished for”

              RedLogix, if I have offended you by my comments I apologise.

    • JanM 2.4
      3 October 2017 at 9:42 am

      I doubt that many people ‘on the left’ have much appetite for war have they?

    • marty mars 2.5
      3 October 2017 at 10:05 am

      Within left circles there are massive anti violence/war groupings from Parihaka down – googling might get you some good links.

      On here all views are expressed and I’ve never noted more than the usual sabre rattling from some lefties.

    • weka 2.6
      3 October 2017 at 11:26 am

      Hey adam, would you be ok with me reposting the Guest Post you did a couple of years back about anarchy and hope? It seems appropriate to have it up again at this time.

    • Peter 2.7
      3 October 2017 at 2:35 pm

      Well I for one do not want our military involved in anything the Yanks do, as far as I am concerned they are a pariah state and the world should have nothing to do with them.

    • Draco T Bastard 2.8
      3 October 2017 at 3:05 pm

      There still is. I’m anti-war despite my conviction that we need to ramp up our defence forces. When we need them we really need them and not having them is usually bad.

      But I’m also against sending them off to other countries to fight – at all.

      Note also that what we’re doing in Iraq and Afghanistan now is purely the result of the chicken-hawks in the right-wing.

  3. Carolyn_nth 3
    3 October 2017 at 8:52 am

    I hitchhiked through Catalonia in the 1970s. We got rides from Catalan speakers, who were very strong on their identity as separate from Spain and France. A referendum should not be the context for state violence – a captive nation.

    I’ve been to the US, but never been to Vegas. What a violent country!

    Condolences and best wishes to the survivors: RIP the victims.

    • Adrian Thornton 3.1
      3 October 2017 at 9:52 am

      Sadly it is very unsurprising the lack of international condemnation to the extreme violence used against the peaceful voters in Catalonia yesterday.

      It seems to me that the thin veil of decency that was once hoisted up to try and hide the ugly unfettered greed and brutality that is at the very soul of the neoliberal ideology, is now in the process of being done away with, and they are now starting to operate completely in the open in their unquenchable desire to appropriate everything in their path and protect their interests, but without the usual accompanying calming rhetoric, bullshit and lies.

      Is this the new hard edged face of neoliberalism exposing itself, maybe in response to a obvious mood for real change throughout most countries afflicted with this cancerous ideology?

      Of course I make this observation from a privileged western vantage point.
      This ideology has of course been operating in a openly brutal way throughout most of the World all along…I guess as Malcolm X once said “the chickens coming home to roost”

      • Carolyn_nth 3.1.1
        3 October 2017 at 10:08 am

        Perhaps there’s an element of that. I think fascism has a bit of a history in Spain, that may have been sidelined by involvement with the EU.

        When a friend and I hitched through Spain in the 70s, it had a militaristic dictator. Military carrying sub machine guns were an everyday occurrence at one campsite we stayed at.

        The Guardia kept a strong watch on all travelers.

        Locals were not keen to talk about Franco – just made gestures with their hands indicating it wasn’t safe to talk about him – never knew who was listening, and gestures indicated responses from authorities could be quite nasty, but possibly not out in the open.

        • Whispering Kate 3.1.1.1
          3 October 2017 at 10:47 am

          I, like you hitchhiked through Spain in the 1960’s and the Guardia had a strict law about loitering. If you were found on the streets late at night they would clap you in jail. In Barcelona my friend and I were trying to find a cheap pension to stay in but a festival was on and the place was booked out, we had the guardia following us with what we thought was menace and, finally as we couldn’t find a place to sleep for the night we just carried on through to the outskirts of the city and hitch hiked out of the city. Spain was very strong on law and order and cops were everywhere on the streets armed.

          • Anne 3.1.1.1.1
            3 October 2017 at 11:08 am

            Yes. I was with a group who had a similar experience in 1969. It was quite frightening being followed around as if we were suspect individuals. On entering Spain via Gibraltar, I was one of two selected from a boatload of tourists for a body search. We were required to strip down to the bare essentials. Not a nice experience. It crossed my mind it might have been because I was wearing a bright red jacket which had nothing to do with my political persuasion – I didn’t have any in those days.

      • ianmac 3.1.2
        3 October 2017 at 10:18 am

        “Sadly it is very unsurprising the lack of international condemnation to the extreme violence used against the peaceful voters in Catalonia yesterday.”
        I thought I heard a comment tucked in the News report that the police were imported from outside Spain to carry out the violent obstructions. (Perhaps police from say Chicago? Nah.)

      • Heather Grimwood 3.1.3
        3 October 2017 at 10:47 am

        to Adrian at 3.1 : Frighteningly like fascist behaviour in Spain early 30’s….maybe tendency incipient in some areas of society e.g. police in his case but presumably acting under orders.

  4. Kay 4
    3 October 2017 at 9:08 am

    I’ve been taking a general media break for mental health purposes since the election so only have a basic working knowledge of what’s happening (it’s hard to completely cold turkey as a news junkie!).

    But I get the impression that NZ seems to be functioning perfectly alright without an official government in place, aren’t we? Like we do every Christmas when the pollies all take off overseas and we’re left with just the Duty Minister “just in case” and the country doesn’t fall to pieces. I don’t think anyone even notices they’re missing! Sure, right now there’s no mechanism in place to improve things, and God knows that can’t come too soon, but we certainly haven’t deteriorated further with no one around to dictate their ill-informed/idealogical/egoist/just plain moronic plans on the populous.

    I recognise some form of government is needed, but when it’s less damaging and more relaxing during these brief times then there must be a more stable way to keep the country running and get things done. I was thinking about only letting politicians with expertiese in their portfolios be Ministers, then I remembered Jonathon Coleman….

    • Sacha 4.1
      3 October 2017 at 10:03 am

      Coleman has no experience running a health system, and it shows.

    • ianmac 4.2
      3 October 2017 at 10:22 am

      On Pundit: “In Praise of Public Servants
      by Brian Easton.”
      “If the minister is lucky or shrewd, some in this office are very good. (Take H2 – Heather Simpson – in Helen Clark’s office; Wayne Eagleson played a similar role in John Key’s.) But often many in the offices are politically ambitious time servers, as average as the politicians they serve and are not nearly as experienced or competent as officials in the ministries.”

      Brian gives a possible scenario of might have happened with Joyce’s $11bil hole.
      https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/in-praise-of-public-servants#comment-45613

  5. Eco maori 5
    3 October 2017 at 9:44 am

    Did anyone feel that earthquake last nite between 9 pm and 10 it was small

  7. joe90 7
    3 October 2017 at 10:39 am

    RIP Tom, and thanks for the sound track to a life.

  8. adam 8
    3 October 2017 at 11:55 am

    Just in case you missed it, Stephanie Rodgers knocked it out of the park.

    https://bootstheory.wordpress.com/2017/10/03/who-has-to-apologise/

    • Wensleydale 8.2
      3 October 2017 at 12:11 pm

      I don’t know how Metiria Turei isn’t sitting at home with fists clenched and jaw locked, quietly seething with rage. I know holding grudges isn’t healthy… but still. I’d be perpetually livid.

      • adam 8.2.1
        3 October 2017 at 12:27 pm

        Not much point Wensleydale, Metiria is doing somthing much better.

        She is getting organised.

  10. Ad 10
    3 October 2017 at 1:29 pm

    Camron Bagrie, a good (bank-paid) economist and honest commentator, is stepping down.

    His view from straight after the election is that New Zealand’s three boom cycles – construction, tourism, and migration – may have peaked:

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/97189906/new-zealands-largest-bank-says-construction-migration-and-tourism-may-have-all-peaked

    • Ed 10.1
      3 October 2017 at 1:32 pm

      Bank paid.
      Therefore not independent.
      Therefore neoliberal.

    • ianmac 10.2
      3 October 2017 at 1:52 pm

      It must be a bit of a worry for the incoming Government if the economy downturn happens. From the Opposition I can hear the bitter Joyce and English blaming Labour/NZF/Greens for the downturn. As someone said there are bombs in the economy just waiting to explode.

      • Ad 10.2.1
        3 October 2017 at 2:51 pm

        NZ’s major bomb is housing debt, but that is on the slow path to defusing as the entire market softens.

      • Draco T Bastard 10.2.2
        3 October 2017 at 3:18 pm

        It must be a bit of a worry for the incoming Government if the economy downturn happens.

        It should be and I’m still certain that the coming collapse of the economy is a large part of the reason as to why Key quit. He didn’t want to have to front the fact that it was his policies that caused the crash.

        But does show that Labour has an out – the failed policies of the National led government and it’s going to give them the drive needed to do some fairly radical elimination of those National Party policies. Hopefully, they even use it to restart our society and rethink the neo-liberal economics but I won’t hold my breath on that.

        • Exkiwiforces 10.2.2.1
          3 October 2017 at 3:33 pm

          The economic bomb (the turn down) is slowly happening for NZ and will gather more speed if Nats are in power, but if that happens we know the small end of town will get hit first before the big end of town.

  11. JC 11
    3 October 2017 at 10:42 pm

    Coroner Peter Ryan today released his findings into the 15-year-old’s death in 2013, saying she had been the victim of relentless and “vicious” cyber-bullying.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/340777/teen-s-suicide-cited-in-schools-mental-health-project