Open mike 04/03/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, March 4th, 2013 - 149 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

149 comments on “Open mike 04/03/2013 ”

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  1. KhandallaViper 1
    4 March 2013 at 7:28 am

    http://www.hbo.com/movies/game-change/index.html

    Hekia Parata and John Key.

    I watched the movie “Game Change” which follows John McCain’s 2008 Presisential campaign from his selection of Sarah Palin as his running mate to his ultimate defeat by Obama. A great movie.

    Pailin and the McCain/Palin relationship has many parallels with Parata and her relationship with Key, IMO.

    • alex 1.1
      4 March 2013 at 8:10 am

      Fantastic film, really shows the grind that campaigning can do. In the end I actually felt sorry for the old bugger McCain, though he still chose her, so not that sorry.

  2. infused 2
    4 March 2013 at 7:59 am

    http://iforce.co.nz/i/uaa0wf32.ivg.jpg

    What sort of mine is this, and where is it located?

  3. geoff 3
    4 March 2013 at 8:00 am

    What is Labour’s stance on the Trans-Pacific Partnership?

    • tc 3.1
      4 March 2013 at 8:06 am

      Whatever he said…..unless trevor disagrees

    • Colonial Viper 3.2
      4 March 2013 at 8:22 am

      Goff strongly pro TPPA, AFAIK

    • mickysavage 3.3
      4 March 2013 at 8:52 am

      Ought to be a bottom line that foreign corporates are not allowed to sue New Zealand if they think that we are hindering their ability to rape and plunder by exercising our democratic right to rule our country.

      • Colonial Weka 3.3.1
        4 March 2013 at 12:32 pm

        Ought to be a bottom line that the NZ govt cannot sign agreements that the public, including other political parties, doesn’t know about.

  4. geoff 4
    4 March 2013 at 8:03 am

    The only thing I could find was this vague piece by Maryan street:
    http://www.labour.org.nz/node/3254

    • DH 4.2
      4 March 2013 at 8:48 am

      “The only thing I could find was this vague piece by Maryan street:
      http://www.labour.org.nz/node/3254”

      and this:
      http://www.labour.org.nz/node/4334”

      Not a lot is it.

      The first translated means she’s miffed that the Nats aren’t including her or Labour in the negotiations. The second kinda suggests that Pharmac is the only thing they’re really fixated on and everything else is on the table.

      Been interesting following the Apple vs Samsung patents battle, gives an idea on what’s in store when the Nats adopt the US patent laws via the TTPA.

      Today’s ‘paper was saying one of Apple’s patents is zooming an image by tapping the screen with finger. Zooming with a click of the mouse has been around since long before the iphone so it should never been accepted as a patent just on prior use grounds.

      • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1
        4 March 2013 at 9:09 am

        Zooming with a click of the mouse has been around since long before the iphone so it should never been accepted as a patent just on prior use grounds.

        There’s so many patents around like that now it’s just not funny and they’re all being used to stiffle innovation and make money from nothing.

        • DH 4.2.1.1
          4 March 2013 at 9:25 am

          Agreed. The Nats are supporting software patents which would be a disaster for the local software industry. Anytime someone gets moderately successful they’ll attract the attention of the US patent trolls & be subjected to lawsuits.

          There’s really nothing you can patent in software, copyright covers it not patents.

  5. alex 5
    4 March 2013 at 8:08 am

    Make of this what you will, apparently a Kaiapoi Labourer had to train prisoners who took his job after he was laid off:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/rebuilding-christchurch/8376234/Labourers-lose-jobs-to-prisoners

    • Draco T Bastard 5.1
      4 March 2013 at 8:22 am

      An employer could make employees redundant, but it had to be for a legitimate reason, the employment law specialist said.

      “It looks like they possibly made him redundant, although it doesn’t look like the positions have gone.”

      All employers needed to follow the proper process when making staff redundant, including giving reasons and consulting with the affected workers, he said.

      Another good reason to join a union.

      • infused 5.1.1
        4 March 2013 at 9:13 am

        Well, not really. If this gets taken to the tribunal, the employer will lose. If there was a few months between employing more and making redundancies, they would be ok.

        • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1.1
          4 March 2013 at 11:39 am

          I was pointing out that the union would know the laws whereas often the employee often doesn’t. It’s that point about specialisation.

          • QoT 5.1.1.1.1
            4 March 2013 at 6:34 pm

            Not to mention unions being far more likely to have the resources to support taking cases to the tribunal than an individual.

    • AsleepWhileWalking 5.2
      4 March 2013 at 8:27 am

      You bet me to it. Gonna be a PG in here somewhere…but win the battle, lose the war b/c the company could go under due to the cost of compensation. Why can’t employers get things right?

      in haste, told him he had to sign a four-month fixed-term and back-dated contract on the spot or he would not be kept or paid.

      • Colonial Viper 5.2.1
        4 March 2013 at 8:37 am

        Should have signed it and the document being completely incriminating in itself, taken the employer to court.

    • Rogue Trooper 5.3
      4 March 2013 at 1:57 pm

      Yep. heard that across the wire alex

  6. aspasia 6
    4 March 2013 at 8:52 am

    Great little article in the Guardian: “How shaming the poor became a new bloodsport!”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/03/blame-poor-poverty-barbara-ellen

  7. just saying 7
    4 March 2013 at 9:08 am

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10868943

    Somehow this seems like it was inevitable. The beneficiary advocacy service in Auckland has had its funding cut.

    Service manager Karen Pattie said the service needed about $100,000 annually and would cease operations within three weeks without further funding.

    Ms Pattie said the service, which currently served 400 clients, had been one of the victims in the Government’s decision to cut funding for agencies providing advocacy work.

    The push was now for the work to be delivered through Work and Income staff and ensuring beneficiaries were “accountable” for receiving their benefits.
    emboldening mine.

    Hey, let’s go the wholoe hog and save money by having the prosecution represent the defense in the criminal justice system. Employers could advocate for aggrieved employees in industrial disputes…..
    This idea has huge potential for the government in so many areas.

    • Draco T Bastard 7.1
      4 March 2013 at 9:12 am

      We used to have that sort of system, back before the Magna Carta. That should give you some idea as to how far back in time National want to take us.

    • Tigger 7.2
      4 March 2013 at 9:14 am

      We could even make MPs accountable, especially for screw ups. Lets start with Novopay…

  8. Skinny 8
    4 March 2013 at 9:13 am

    Later this month climate change sceptic an English lord, Chris Moncton, a former adviser to Margret Thatcher will be traveling around New Zealand giving public debates on climate change. He starting in Northland, which is no surprise given the Governments intentions to mine & drill in the region. 

    I would like to know who is sponsoring this English Toff? The Government? Mining & drilling companies? Keys rich mates? ACT? Just who is behind this guys visit?

    Also was mining & drilling our national parks really plan A of the Government till public outrage, including the thousands who marched in protest ‘stalled’ their intentions & was asset sales plan B?        And are we seeing the reverse plans with mining & drilling being the plan B now?

     Are we being feed more lies by Key as he has said if asset sales were foiled there was no plan B?

    • vto 8.1
      4 March 2013 at 9:21 am

      Why the fuck would anyone want to listen an english lord?

      Anyone in such circles cannot by default be trusted one little bit.

    • Draco T Bastard 8.2
      4 March 2013 at 11:42 am

      I would like to know who is sponsoring this English Toff? The Government? Mining & drilling companies? Keys rich mates? ACT? Just who is behind this guys visit?

      It’ll be the Climate Science Coalition and I want to know how much he’s being paid. It seems his job these days is nothing but getting paid huge amounts to lie about climate science.

    • BLiP 8.3
      4 March 2013 at 12:22 pm

      .

      Hard to find out about that sort of thing these days. Conservatives are too ashamed to do it publicly. In 2007, some US outfit going by the name Heartland Institute channelled funds to bozos here like the New Zealand Climate “Science” Coalition. NZCSC member Owen McShane received $US25,000. while member Terry Dunleavy received $US45,000. That’s what a quick search shows up anyway. Last year there was a bit of an issue when the Heartland Institute went particularly rabid so other corporates stepped up. I think it would be reasonable to suspect that Lord Monkeybrain is on the billionaire denialist gravy train, the cash circuitously making its way down to the clowns like him.

      Mind you, New Zealand has its own clowns, chief among them Auckland University Associate Professor Chris De Freitas. Should I be surprised to see the New Zealand Fox News Herald continue to give space to him, as recently as today? Perhaps not.

      • Pascal's bookie 8.3.1
        4 March 2013 at 12:31 pm

        Ian Wishart is also involved. It’s the basic wingnut welfare crew, wouldn’t be surprised t find that under all the ‘brought to you by’ fluff is a handout from Gibbs.

        • Skinny 8.3.1.1
          4 March 2013 at 6:31 pm

          Yes Gibbs fits in there nicely he may try to use this as a platform to reignite ACT through this characters roadshow?

  9. Tigger 9
    4 March 2013 at 9:20 am

    We could even make MPs accountable, especially for screw ups. Lets start with Novopay…

    • Addison 9.1
      4 March 2013 at 11:07 am

      Datacom was just as bad. They did nurses pay. At north shore where my wife worked for 2 years, not once was her pay right. She complained to the union rep. Did it hit the headlines, did the union make a fuss, not likely. The difference, the nurses union was led by Liala Harrell there was a l
      Labour Government, and she was sweating on her list position with the Labour party?

      • Te Reo Putake 9.1.1
        4 March 2013 at 11:50 am

        No mention of your wife complaining to the boss, Addison. In your summary, it’s all the union’s fault for some reason. What years are we talking about?

        • Colonial Viper 9.1.1.1
          4 March 2013 at 12:17 pm

          MAF – More Addison Fiction

          • Joe Bloggs 9.1.1.1.1
            4 March 2013 at 12:32 pm

            quite correct CV – it’s fiction that Datacom stuff-ups never hit the headlines.

            Here we go – Datacom featured twice in two days:

            From the Otago Daily Times February 15 2008 – Datacom’s payroll problems plague schools

            From Scoop February 14 2008

          • handle 9.1.1.1.2
            4 March 2013 at 12:48 pm

            Harre was not connected with the Labour Party.

            • Te Reo Putake 9.1.1.1.2.1
              4 March 2013 at 1:25 pm

              Yep, which was why I asked Addison the years he was talking about. I was hoping to award Addison the stupidity trifecta: getting the relevant Nurses Organisation National Secretary wrong, putting Laila in the wrong party, and claiming the bosses mistakes were the fault of the union. However, I note from Addison’s contributions over the weekend that he doesn’t like answering direct questions. Presumably because the answers would show the vast void that is his factual ignorance is filled by hot air, right wing talking points and anti-worker prejudice.

              • addison …
                4 March 2013 at 2:08 pm

                Rubbish trp I always try and answer questions unless they are of a personal nature and go too far. I have had very little argument against my opinions, usually just the copout of playing the man not the ball. If you want a sensible debate try doing it without insulting those who offer opinions contrary to your own. Or are you of the view that chanting Maggie out over and over is a sensible debate(perhaps Key Out in a Kiwi context)

                • felixviper …
                  4 March 2013 at 2:26 pm

                  Get fucked addison.

                  All you ever write here is anecdata about your own life (lolz).

                  You don’t get to complain about people “not playing the ball” when all you have presented is the man.

                • Te Reo Putake …
                  4 March 2013 at 2:41 pm

                  I don’t give a flying one about your opinions, Addison. I and others have simply demonstrated this morning (and on Saturday) that you don’t know what you are talking about. Every supposed fact in your wee rant this morning has been disproven.

                  The thing is, you are entitled to put your opinions forward and promote the ideas and philosophies behind them. You’ll find plenty of healthy debate. But when you claim as fact things that are not fact round here, you will be shredded everytime.

                  To summarise:

                  Datacom’s problems did make the media. You said they didn’t.

                  Laila Harre did not hide the Datacom issue because of personal ambition as you falsely claimed. She was never on Labour’s list, she was, in fact, an MP for a party born in opposition to the LP.

                  Laila Harre did not even work for the NO at the time you claim she did.

                  How about you just come out and say “I got all that wrong. Sorry”?

                  • lprent …
                    4 March 2013 at 4:08 pm

                    I looked at the comment, including the misspelling of Laila’s name and the required incorrect fact every sentence. I was considering writing a reply or a note to point this out preemptively. But then I thought that people would be in wanting to play at squashing this guy’s ego soon enough. Why should I spoil the fun? 😈

        • addison 9.1.1.2
          4 March 2013 at 1:24 pm

          2001 to 2002,and yes she did complain to her line manager and was told to refer the complaint to the Union rep. And if you read my post a bit more carefully I am not blaming the union or the Labour government, the fault lay with datacom. The poing is that the unions are all over nova pay and National but were ominously silent over datacoms faults. I am suggesting Harre was quiet because she didn’t want to rock her Labour Party mates whilste she was angling for her party place. A new twist to the old line; the working class can kiss my ass, I have a list seat at last!;-)

          • freedom 9.1.1.2.1
            4 March 2013 at 1:29 pm

            “did the union make a fuss, not likely. ”
            “I am not blaming the union”

            communication 101: these are what are known as contradictory statements

            • addison 9.1.1.2.1.1
              4 March 2013 at 1:40 pm

              not at all. not blaming the union for the pay mess up. Blaming the union for their inaction about the matter. PS I apologise I did not realise Harre resigned from Labour in 1989. Therefore cannot blame her inaction for political ambitions.

              • Colonial Viper …
                4 March 2013 at 2:17 pm

                Did you ever thank the union for the excellent pay and conditions your wife enjoyed in the first place?

                • felixviper …
                  4 March 2013 at 2:52 pm

                  Course not, that’s all down to the benevolence of the bosses.

                  But not paying wages correctly and on time, that’s the fucking union’s job eh?

              • McFlock …
                4 March 2013 at 5:15 pm

                was your wife a member of the union, btw?

          • Te Reo Putake 9.1.1.2.2
            4 March 2013 at 1:30 pm

            Cool, so Harre, who was not NO Nat Sec at the time, kept quiet about an issue she was unaware of to keep her mates in the party she left in disgust years earlier happy? How is life on Planet Key? Oxygen on short supply?

      • freedom 9.1.2
        4 March 2013 at 12:26 pm

        i call BS Addison, you have one isolated example, well i also have relatives and friends in that industry and recently talked with them specifically on the NovaPay issue, as the health sector seemed to handle the complicated task with competence and certitude. Each and every one of the half dozen i spoke to said the occassional blip happened , as it does in any payroll, and would be resolved in reasonable timeframes. They also made a point of mentioning that there is no comparison to the over-arching scale of the Talent2 / Novapay swindle that has been played on NZ Education.

        • addison 9.1.2.1
          4 March 2013 at 1:43 pm

          Lucky them, but pay matters were a joke at Northsore when my wife was there over a 2 year period. They were always corrected but it was a fortnightly occurrence.

          • freedom 9.1.2.1.1
            4 March 2013 at 2:11 pm

            that a person’s pay would be in error every fortnight for two years does beggar belief, sure you are not exaggerating just a tad?

          • felixviper 9.1.2.1.2
            4 March 2013 at 2:32 pm

            Yes addison, no doubt there were thousands of others this was happening to as well as your made up wife, but the union kept it all secret.

            Because that’s what they do, unions. They exist to make sure no-one finds out about workers not getting paid.

            FFS can we get some better tr0lls please?

  10. Penny Bright 10
    4 March 2013 at 9:29 am

    4 March 2013

    ‘Open Letter/ OIA request to NZ Prime Minister John Key – how can the Government ‘get a good price for Mighty River Power, when thousands ‘Switch Off Mercury Energy’?

    Dear Prime Minister,

    Please be advised of the founding aim of the ‘Switch Off Mercury Energy’ community group, of which I am a Spokesperson:

    “MINUTES(CONFIRMED) FOUNDING MEETING OF ‘SWITCH OFF MERCURY ENERGY’

    15 August 2012 Grey Lynn Community Centre 510 Richmond Rd Grey Lynn.

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________

    HELP STOP THE PRIVATISATION OF MIGHTY RIVER POWER BY SWITCHING OFF MERCURY ENERGY! (100% owned by Mighty River Power)

    AIM: To help stop the privatisation of public assets – particularly the proposed privatisation of the first of the electricity State-Owned Assets (SOEs), Mighty River Power, by FOCUSING ON getting 100,000 customers to SWITCH OFF Mercury Energy (100% owned by Mighty River Power). Fewer customers equals less profits which equals a less attractive investment and jeopardises the Governments proposed agenda.

    “Let me make it quite clear. If the Government doesn’t get a good price – the Government isn’t going to sell” (Tony Ryall, Minister of SOE’s 17/6/2012 NBR

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/govt-wont-sell-assets-if-it-cant-get-good-price-ryall-ck-121435

    The Government has no right to sell our public assets.

    PRECEDENT: In 2008, Contact Energy (already privatized) doubled their directors fees and raised their prices 12%.In 6 months, more than 40,000 customers switched from Contact Energy and their profits were halved.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/droughts/news/article.cfm?c_id=180&objectid=10590906&pnum=0 ……………”

    ____________________________________________________________________________________

    Please provide the following information:

    1) Please confirm that the publicly-stated position stated by the Minister of State-Owned Eneterprises Tony Ryall, is unchanged:

    “Let me make it quite clear. If the Government doesn’t get a good price – the Government isn’t going to sell” (Tony Ryall, Minister of SOE’s 17/6/2012

    2) Please provide the information which confirms HOW a ‘good price’ for Mighty River Power is/has been calculated.

    3) Please provide the information which confirms WHO has/is responsible for the calculation of a ‘good price’ for Mighty River Power.

    4) Please provide the information which confirms that has/is responsible for the calculation of a ‘good price’ for Mighty River Power, are independent, and professionally competent, and do not have any untoward ‘ conflicts of interest’ / vested interests in the sale of Mighty River Power.

    5) Please confirm that you are aware of your statutory duties arising from the Public Records Act 2005

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2005/0040/latest/DLM345536.html

    Purposes of Act
    The purposes of this Act are—

    (a)to provide for the continuation of the repository of public archives called the National Archives with the name Archives New Zealand (Te Rua Mahara o te Kāwanatanga); and

    (b)to provide for the role of the Chief Archivist in developing and supporting government recordkeeping, including making independent determinations on the disposal of public records and certain local authority archives; and

    (c)to enable the Government to be held accountable by—

    (i)ensuring that full and accurate records of the affairs of central and local government are created and maintained; and

    (ii)providing for the preservation of, and public access to, records of long-term value; and

    (d)to enhance public confidence in the integrity of public records and local authority records; and

    (e)to provide an appropriate framework within which public offices and local authorities create and maintain public records and local authority records, as the case may be; and

    (f)through the systematic creation and preservation of public archives and local authority archives, to enhance the accessibility of records that are relevant to the historical and cultural heritage of New Zealand and to New Zealanders’ sense of their national identity; and

    (g)to encourage the spirit of partnership and goodwill envisaged by the Treaty of Waitangi (Te Tiriti o Waitangi), as provided for by section 7; and

    (h)to support the safekeeping of private records.

    Yours sincerely,

    Penny Bright

    A Spokesperson for the Switch Off Mercury Energy community group.

    http://www.facebook.com/SwitchOffMercuryEnergy/info

    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

  11. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 11
    4 March 2013 at 9:38 am

    I am one who has been surprised by the government’s and Key’s continued popularity in spite of all of the problems they have encountered and which are chronicled at length here.

    So I was very interested last night to meet for the person time a person of the class responsible for the phenomenon.

    Most people I know are now and have always been right wing. I know fewer people who are and have always been left wing. Here, I am exposed to the rabid left, who I never encounter in the real world.

    But last night I met a devoted John Key fan. A 50 year old gay man of modest means who had voted Labour his whole life until 2008 and, indeed, had been a card carrying member and volunteered and canvassed for them in the late 80’s and early 90’s.

    He has voted National the last two elections and does not regret it. His vote was essentially for Key who he remains very taken with. Part of the appeal, it seems, is the story of the struggle from modest circumstances to great wealth and then public service.

    This is only an anecdote and, as such, has very limited value. But I found it very interesting to meet for the first time such a person.

    • Socialist Paddy 11.1
      4 March 2013 at 10:15 am

      Jesus Mary and Joseph I am agreeing with Gormless Fool.

      Key has a very good back story and a lot of charm. To counter him Labour needs a leader who will outpoint him in an area. He needs to be smarter or gutsier or more passionate or be able to speak better but he needs to be different.

      Shearer is not that person.

      I also agree with Caleb Morgan that the dominant clique in the Labour Caucus is one that prefers Key to Cunliffe (or Chauvel or Dalziel or anyone of the left) to be next Prime Minister.

      http://cutyourhair.wordpress.com/2013/03/01/where-is-christchurch-in-the-labour-reshuffle/

      • Colonial Viper 11.1.1
        4 March 2013 at 10:37 am

        A preference to be in charge of a losing Labour Party, as opposed to being not in control of a winning Labour Party?

        • Draco T Bastard 11.1.1.1
          4 March 2013 at 12:15 pm

          Yep, that seems to be it. Apparently, the ABCs think having power in the party is more important than the party or the country.

    • Draco T Bastard 11.2
      4 March 2013 at 12:12 pm

      Here, I am exposed to the rabid left, who I never encounter in the real world on Planet Key

      FIFY

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 11.2.1
        4 March 2013 at 12:35 pm

        I mean real, as opposed to virtual. No offence to the rabid left intended.

    • North 11.3
      4 March 2013 at 8:49 pm

      There are those who get into cargo cult very, very easily.

  12. DH 12
    4 March 2013 at 9:49 am

    These deals are annoying & becoming too common….

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8376186/Questions-raised-over-Deloitte

    I don’t know why the Govt uses the likes of Deloittes for IT consultancy, they’re grossly overpriced and since a lot of IT work is labour charges the Govt is paying far too much for IT outsourcing.

    Deloittes are principally an accounting firm and I wouldn’t hire accountants to advise me on IT stuff, don’t know why they get so much Govt work when we’ve got the likes of Datacom who are genuinely IT people.

    • muzza 12.1
      4 March 2013 at 12:05 pm

      Just how do Deloitte *win* all those juicy central/local government contracts, and service agreements etc!

      They’re feasting aggresively on the public purse, at all levels, all around the country’s, local/central bodies!

      One needs to investigate little snippets like the following statement:

      Following a claim that Housing NZ corporate services director Roy Baker was a relative of a senior manager at Deloitte, former Housing NZ chairman Pat Snedden called then housing minister Phil Heatley to assure him any conflicts of interest had been properly managed. The conflict of interest had been declared.

      Tracking the relationships and work history, of former and current Deloitte employees, is a good place to start!

      • muzza 12.1.1
        4 March 2013 at 12:11 pm

        Four Housing NZ executives, including Baker, left the corporation in 2009 and set up a private consultancy that named the ETP’s British software supplier, Northgate, as a partner

        Open the door, let them in, then join them!

  13. Tigger 13
    4 March 2013 at 10:20 am

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10868979

    Coroner who declined inquest into death of gay soldier made submission against gay marriage.

    First, WTF was he doing making a submission?

    Second, his decision needs to be reviewed.

    • Lanthanide 13.1
      4 March 2013 at 1:29 pm

      Yeah, that is pretty galling.

    • Treetop 13.2
      4 March 2013 at 2:40 pm

      On Morning report Goff raised some issues. Deployment was two months longer than usual, (which may have increased fatigue), additional training required for the deployment was cut short by two weeks and an inquest is required.

      I hope that Goff also gets a full independent inquiry. The ANZAC Day airforce deaths were suppose to be investigated by the Labour Department, not just by the airforce. The army are not independent.

    • McFlock 13.3
      4 March 2013 at 5:23 pm

      Ah. Now THAT begins to smell…

  14. Glen Forrester 14
    4 March 2013 at 10:39 am

    Your eyes will roll at this. Chris Hipkins put up a story on Red Alert called CONTEMPT FOR DEMOCRACY on Saturday here http://tinyurl.com/cdekas6

    Yesterday Chris deleted comments asking him if he thought the title was a bit hypocritical because he has been so criticized for his reaction to the democracy remits at the NZ Labour conference. Trevor
    or Clare might have done the deleting…

    My comment never got through. I wasn’t even getting smart. I just said I thought it might be better to take critics on. Still in moderation or deleted though?!

    I have screen captures of two other comments that were deleted. Anyone know how to post screen captures here at TS…

    I had seen TS comments saying how Red Alert is censored like mad but I had not seen it myself. Do MP’s think you can censor voters when they go to vote? Daft.

    • Colonial Viper 14.1
      4 March 2013 at 10:48 am

      Labour MPs certainly think that they can censor and censure Labour Party members for speaking their mind.

    • lprent 14.2
      4 March 2013 at 12:04 pm

      There is a high degree of moderation at Red Alert. There has to be, otherwise you’d have trolls from both all directions spending much of their time slagging the MP’s and drowning out discussion. The problem is, as you point out, that the moderation often drowns out actual comments.

      I can testify that as a moderator after reading hundreds of thousands of comments here (and previous net experiences) with an enormous variety of trolling approaches, that after a while everything starts to look “deeply suspicious”. It is actually quite hard to restrain yourself from just moderating everything and stifling actual discussion.

      The local equivalent is trying to tell us how to run our site or telling us what we should write. It is a very fast way to picking up a ban and if repeated, a fast way to lose the ability to comment here. Why? Because we’re doing the damn job and critics who are not are usually just a pain in the arse because they are not. We just tell them that they need time to start up and run their own site where they can run it the way they like – including getting their own audience. And attacking authors personally is just not tolerated at all because while there are a lot of commentators, there are only a relatively few people with both the skills in writing and who are willing to be authors.

      Basically it is house rules when it comes to moderation at various sites. As a commentator you kind of have to live with them.

      I think everyone here is kind of aware of the moderation policies at RA

      • Te Reo Putake 14.2.1
        4 March 2013 at 12:13 pm

        And to be fair to Red Alert, I posted a comment a few months ago suggesting Clare Curren should apologise for bullying CV and I was pleasantly surprised it wasn’t moderated in any way.

  15. prism 15
    4 March 2013 at 11:42 am

    Helen Kelly’s criticism of the lack of care for forest workers safety is really needed. It seems to me though that there is a barrier in NZ to insisting on safety regulations and controls backed by law and regular inspections.

    This morning’s comment from an adventure tourism spokesperson on the man falling and dying at an adventure business referred to businesses being very concerned and setting standards. It sounded to me that they are left to get on with it, perhaps after drawing up plans but saying and knowing isn’t doing.

    What we need is a feisty little shit from the Department of Labour and Safety going round asking questions, checking the equipment and generally setting the owner’s teeth on edge. Instead we get growing risky behaviours from owners and avoidable deaths that amount to manslaughter by wilful neglect of owners and their staff. Owners should spend some time in jail if any fault can be found. A month for each fault perhaps. Faults of frayed ropes, poor maintenance, lax controls and methods, etc.

    • Rogue Trooper 15.1
      4 March 2013 at 3:15 pm

      yes, also on the rise on RNZ
      -Aukland house prices continuing up the spiral
      -Aussie climate on “steroids” now
      anyway,
      some parting shots for The Village round-heads across the bow (eggs and omelettes and all that butter, i know, lets call it a master-craftsman class)

      subjective self-identification is the outcome of subjection to a pre-existing order that includes language, law, admin, production, distribution, and exchange.
      Husband, and cultivate and tailor a world to your proclivities and context.

      1. World-making heart- and-mind. heart-and-mind shaping world. think and speak a novel world into being. way-making=also affection-an epistemology of caring. empathetic feeling. tick

      2.it is sage not to coerce; disseminate teachings that go beyond what can be said. binaries require other for completion. enable each participant to contribute fully to “dramatic” performance.tick

      3. keep the “hawkers” of knowledge at bay. celebrate the bravery, patience and kindness of the ordinary person. allow character of community to emerge synergistically out of associated living.
      tick

      4.way-making of undetermined nature; swinging gateway of experience opens and novelty emerges spontaneously. experience is appropriate object of awe and deference. tick

      5.not institutionalized morality but superior communal morality. tick

      6. the fecundity of emptiness. tick

      7.withdraw, yet out in front.through unselfishness needs met. nature / Christ as mentor. persons perceived, needs met.tick

      8.dwell in places loathed by crowds. giving authoritatively. speak credibly. act timely. water flows everywhere. tick

      9. retire from excess. how to manage fullness; a measure of ignorance to cope with intelligence that vies with wisdom. humility to cope with accomplishments. a measure of timidity to cope with courage pervading an entire age. measure of frugality to cope with wealth that fills the four seas.
      tick

      10. the nature of the world is to transform. real wisdom-shaping penetrating insight into the present moment engaging with the unique circumstances at play. tick

      12. easier to satiate the abdomen, difficult to satiate the wandering eye through which the spirit can leak away. distractions. no crime more onerous than greed. no misfortune more devastating than avarice. no calamity with more grief than insatiability. know when enough is enough= satisfaction. tick

      13. value anxieties. those who value care of own body more than running the world can be entrusted with the world; begrudging person= authority of the world; worldly favour-patronage will be followed by disgrace as favour “withdrawn”. faithful with little, self, then faithful with responsibilities and world. value ones’ person and love ones’ person in thorough-going integration with ones’ field of experience. tick

      14. hold tightly to way-making in the present to manage what happens now to understand where it began in the distant past= the draw-string of way-making. master draws me forward a step at a time, broadens my culture, disciplines my behaviour through the observance of ritual propriety; even if I wanted to quit, I could not.-Yan Hui (we supported a Mob hui after church; is broad)
      tick

      15. reluctance as at a winters’ stream crossing. vigilance towards surrounding neighbours.dignified as an invited guest. yielding as ice to thaw. solid like un-worked wood. murky like muddy waters when stilled clear. settled when agitated comes to life. not seek fullness, remaining hidden and unfinished. tick

      -epistemology of feeling in which the quality of understanding is a function of the immediacy and intensity of what is felt. way always under construction. many hands at work. a punctuation of consummating events, as paragraphs yet a never-ending story. tick

      16. reversion-returning to the root, is what is called equilibrium. common sense- accommodation-tolerance -kingliness . tian cumulative cultural legacy focused by the spirit and spirituality of those who have come before. the way made is enduring, not self divided against self. s. like a mirror; not see things off or go to meet them. respond without storing anything up thus not injured by the myriad transformations they undergo. not passive or quiet but synergistically and organically responsive. accommodation is the source of fullness of strength, influence timeliness and efficacy. extension through deference, trunk branches from the roots. tick

      17. during periods of decadence and social decline philosophers arise to proclaim the obvious of exacerbating problems by institutionalizing artificial alternatives, dominion, principalities and powers- educated morality and its vocabulary of ” right and wrong” “good and evil”. tick

      here, have some ‘morality”
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slave_morality

      20. Preferable to the marble 😉 of learning is the rich temple of immediate experience and unmediated feeling.

      Do I really care what others think of me? I don’t think so. the worm has turned; Time for some
      Wood Oil. (I would not be surprised if National gets another term or not) There’s some newsology for yas’ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noology

      What a great country? By l*ck it is! Go luck yourselves out.
      “ha ha ha said the laughing gnome…”

      now, where’d i secrete my Crossbow and bolts.

      “guess I’ll see you, yes I’ll see you, see you on the other-side.”

      Epitaph Writer :
      FXDX.
      excuse me while I get back to Job.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZXpqhXSDrE 😉

  16. prism 16
    4 March 2013 at 12:03 pm

    This morning on Radio NZ this USA woman was interesting. She has been thoughtful and politically aware since a young age. She said that she considers the USA to be a pluralism of wealthy groups not a democracy.
    10-11am: Feature interview – Cisco Systems co-founder and Jane Austen expert Sandy Lerner

    • Lanthanide 16.1
      4 March 2013 at 1:31 pm

      As a founder of Cisco she’d be a multi-millionaire, too…

      • Colonial Viper 16.1.1
        4 March 2013 at 2:02 pm

        I read that when she was forced out of Cisco Systems her husband and her liquidated their stock for US$170M.

        In the interview she says that she studied communism and marxist economics at univeristy.

  17. prism 17
    4 March 2013 at 12:14 pm

    I put item about Sandy Lerner on OpenMike 3/3 by mistake. I tried to delete it because I wanted it to go in today’s only, but the delete function doesn’t work and neither does my edit function.

  18. Anne 18
    4 March 2013 at 12:49 pm

    Astonishing!

    I have just heard Mike Williams criticise the Labour Party… saying they need to spend less time on the internal infighting and more time attacking the government. Two minutes later following a question by Lyn Freeman on the subject of Charles Chauvel’s speech, he is belittling Chauvel and accusing him of having a tantrum (I paraphrase) when he made exactly the same point.

    He claims Charles Chauvel has done himself no good by saying what he did

    This isn’t the first time Williams has contradicted himself like this and it won’t be the last. The man is shaping up to be even more of a ‘fake’ leftie than Josie Pagani.

    He also claimed Shearer’s reshuffle was very fair. The MPs who Shearer promoted deserved it and were the best performers in the party (words to that effect anyway). He intimated those who were demoted were simply not good enough, and he’s sorry to have to say this blah blah… but they simply didn’t come up to scratch. So, we take it from the guru himself that David Cunliffe and Lianne Dalziel were just not up to it folks .

    Beggars belief.

    • veutoviper 18.1
      4 March 2013 at 1:00 pm

      I was also amazed/disgusted by Williams’ comments, Anne. Your summary is spot on.

      Here is the link if others did not hear it.

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2548073/politics-with-matthew-hooton-and-mike-williams.asx

      The discussion on the partial sale of Mighty River is also worth listening to in the link.

      —————————-
      Also here is the link to the excellent Sandy Lerner interview mentioned by Prism at 16 and 17 above – well worth listening to.

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2548070/feature-guest-sandy-lerner.asx

      • Colonial Viper 18.1.1
        4 March 2013 at 1:03 pm

        I think I’ll use my limited time this afternoon to listen to Sandy Lerner. Thanks vv.

      • David H 18.1.2
        4 March 2013 at 1:52 pm

        Williams wanking and Hootons Horseshit Or Sandy Lerner? well thats no contest.

    • muzza 18.2
      4 March 2013 at 1:56 pm

      Why are types such as Williams, *allowed* on the radio you think..

      Forget buying into the charade around the re-shuffle, and empty spaces like Williams commenting on it, these are all just pawns in a game, the game is called, *distract/fool the public*!

      Age old game, which is still working wonders it seems!

      • Colonial Viper 18.2.1
        4 March 2013 at 2:06 pm

        Bryce Edwards: Opposition is failing NZ voters, low polls a threat to Shearer

        Dr Edwards says voters don’t see enough difference between the two major parties to bother shaking up the status quo.

        “I think we are looking at what political scientists call democratic deficit, where voters are turned off politics because they just can’t see meaningful differences between political parties and reasons to vote either way.

        “At the last election we had the lowest turnout in about 100 years – it could be even worse at the next election because people just don’t see the point.”

        http://www.3news.co.nz/Opposition-failing-voters—Edwards/tabid/1607/articleID/288865/Default.aspx

        • muzza 18.2.1.1
          4 March 2013 at 5:11 pm

          And what happens when the nation has become so disenfranchised by the *democratic political system*, due to it being completely corrupted!

          Take a good look in the rear view mirror!

        • Rogue Trooper 18.2.1.2
          4 March 2013 at 5:22 pm

          its ANARCHY i tells ya, ANARCHY! (have you seen the ways in which people are choosing to die these days? Hemlock would be a lot more gentle; they are even falling out of the sky. very sad, particularly these young people driving themselves into the wall)

      • Joyce 18.2.2
        4 March 2013 at 8:40 pm

        Agree that it is a travesty that Mike Williams continues to be used as a Labour Party commentator – Charles was only calling it like it is. If the hierarchy don’t like the infighting, manage it, don’t just try to ignore it. They are missing the first fundamental rule of politics! Doesn’t bode well for Government

    • felixviper 18.3
      4 March 2013 at 3:01 pm

      Yes Anne, when Williams says “less time on the internal infighting and more time attacking the government” he apparently isn’t talking about the leadership cartel around Shearer who have been responsible for all the leaking, backstabbing, media bitching and vote spying, and who are supposed to be the ones responsible for fighting the government.

      • Anne 18.3.1
        4 March 2013 at 3:44 pm

        Correct felixviper:

        he’s talking about those dumb-bunny members and conference delegates who had the effrontary to think they were deserving of a say in the leadership of the parliamentary party. I mean the parliamentary party belongs to us – the elite – not them. They have no right to poke their noses into our business. We decide what’s good for us the party not them.

        As for the bunch of treacherous MPs who had the gall to back the members. We have no choice but to continue to punish them until they show contrition and promise they will never betray us the party again.

      • Olwyn 18.3.2
        4 March 2013 at 4:10 pm

        A problem with prescribing “less time on the internal infighting and more time attacking the government” is the diminishing range of issues over which a forthright attack on the government would enjoy the full backing of the present Labour caucus. Even following the prescription may well reveal us as “the enemy within,” should our critique of the government fail to be sufficiently circumscribed and nuanced.

      • QoT 18.3.3
        4 March 2013 at 6:45 pm

        Clearly one man’s infighter is another man’s senior whip.

    • Fraser 18.4
      4 March 2013 at 8:42 pm

      If Cunliffe is so hopeless – why is he trouncing every other Labour MP on YouTube’s Inthehouse channel at the moment? Seems to me, he’s the only performing with any talent in the House, for a start.

      [lprent: Don’t dick about with your handles. Each handle has to be approved the first time it is used. Try using too many and we’ll conclude that you are deliberately wasting our time and ban you. Read the policy about wasting moderators time. ]

  19. Colonial Viper 19
    4 March 2013 at 1:11 pm

    Average Fortune 500 CEO pay is 200x their median worker

    I personally think ~10x to 15x is reasonable. This ratio is common in Japan and various countries in the EU.

    http://www.payscale.com/ceo-income

  20. addison 20
    4 March 2013 at 2:45 pm

    I gave up on whaleoil to many biggots and rednecks. Sadly giving up here to many socialist facist thugs who are left overs from from the 30s in Germany, and think socialism is about having the power to ban opposition.
    Goodby and good luck I am sure you will do wonders for the political LEFT IN nz

    • felixviper 20.1
      4 March 2013 at 2:56 pm

      No, you’re giving up because virtually everything you’ve written here has been shown to be bullshit.

      And enough of the dramatic exits, everyone knows you’ll be back in no time with a new name and a new back story to peddle the same old lies and propaganda.

    • Arfamo 20.2
      4 March 2013 at 3:17 pm

      That’s a pity. You screwed yourself up today big time, but you’ve made a few neo-lib arguments that National’s opposition parties need to be prepared to counter in the spin wars.

    • Te Reo Putake 20.3
      4 March 2013 at 3:18 pm

      Help me, help me, help me sail away,
      Well give me two good reasons why I oughta stay.
      ‘Cause I love to live so pleasantly,
      Live this life of luxury,
      Lazing on a sunny afternoon.
      In the summertime
      In the summertime
      In the summertime …

    • Colonial Viper 20.5
      4 March 2013 at 4:08 pm

      Is “addison” the so-called British retiree really gone now? A shame I say, a crying shame.

    • Rogue Trooper 20.6
      4 March 2013 at 5:25 pm

      a little Norman at last

    • McFlock 20.7
      4 March 2013 at 5:32 pm

      lol

      Maybe there’s a fluffy kitten blog Addison would enjoy?
      It’s the internet: of course there is

      • Rogue Trooper 20.7.1
        4 March 2013 at 5:39 pm

        out the bach o’ the shed?

      • McFlock 20.7.2
        4 March 2013 at 8:03 pm

        upon reflection, I do find it somewhat illuminating that Addison reckons some here want to ban opposition, and that’s why he chooses to withdraw.

        Secondly, I also think it’s a bit of an alien concept for me to not get worked up and passionate about politics. Even basic roading policies have a good chance of being life or death decisions. Yes, the mods here keep a handle on threats etc, but with a wide range of folk of course a bit of personal abuse or the occasional f-bomb will occur, especially if one acts like a dick. To expect a prim and proper “Midsomer Murders”-style conversation about policies that might e.g. kill kids (or simply choose which people will die, but hopefully a lower number than plan B) is pretty unrealistic.

    • QoT 20.8
      4 March 2013 at 6:47 pm

      Facist? How dare you. I love all faces equally.

  21. travellerev 21
    4 March 2013 at 3:12 pm

    I’ve been following the “New” Left wing blog the Daily Blog for a couple of days and I have come to the conclusion that it’s just another version of Pundit (with more pictures) staying well within the expected paradigm and I suspect it will fall by the way side soonish. I have also been following something of what is happening in Italy and while our “Lefty/Greeny” politicians are talking about money printing and the first victims of using prisoners as cheap labor are presenting themselves I thought I’d put a link here for those of you who want to know how it’s done in Italy. Enjoy!

  22. Rogue Trooper 22
    4 March 2013 at 3:43 pm

    The Return of the Anti-Christ
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Antichrist_%28book%29
    (it’s complicated)

  24. prism 24
    4 March 2013 at 5:48 pm

    Julia Hartley Moore on Jim Mora was saying with approval that one of the good things that the government has done is enabled free cello lessons somewhere in her manor. This morning I listened on Radionz to a worker on a benefit advocacy group which may have to close (it’s the only one for a huge area of Auckland) because the government has withdrawn the $50,000 part of the $100,000 they need and they can’t provide the service without it.

    We need bread AND roses (or music).

  25. Colonial Viper 25
    4 March 2013 at 5:55 pm

    Swiss voters overwhelmingly pass ‘Corporate Fat Cats’ law allowing shareholders to veto excessive corporate pay.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-03/swiss-fat-cats-clobbered-70-just-say-nonneinno-excessive-executive-pay

  26. lprent 26
    4 March 2013 at 6:13 pm

    Fixed the time up. Looks like the ntp.ubuntu.com got a wee bit off.

  27. felixviper 27
    4 March 2013 at 7:16 pm

    “you are posting comments too quickly, slow down”

    Wtf is this? Are you giving the righties a headstart now?

  28. joe90 28
    4 March 2013 at 7:36 pm

    Inequality visualised.

  29. Draco T Bastard 29
    4 March 2013 at 9:50 pm

    Smile or DIE!!!
    RSAnimate video.