OK so yesterday showed Key at his Crosby Textor PR directed best.
He had to delay the sale of the power company shares. Rio Tinto’s belligerent money grabbing stance made a delay inevitable. The threat to the electricity wholesale market was far too high.
So did Key acknowledge this? No he blamed Maaaree. It was all their fault.
He is entering into consultation with Iwi to discuss an option the Government will never support so its chances at the inevitable court action will be increased.
And he then sowed confusion by bringing forward an announcement that kiwi soldiers were coming home early from Afghanistan.
He is such a consummate politician. And such an awful leader. New Zealand should be ashamed …
Can i ask, does anyone know which seat cameron brewer is being lined up for national at the next election? He seems to have quite a pr team nehind him, and he has jumped on the greedy maori bandwagon today, the timing is very very interesting?
I thought he was being lined up to go against Brown at next years local body elections so they can plunder akl’s assets, he’s always tub thumping on rates, travel etc etc.
Banksy f’d that up good and proper last time so it’s time for Blinky jnr.
CB will stay in local politics for the time being, as his usefullness is seen to be there, and the timing of the comments deliberate.
I would say that as long as good people are prepared to sit back and wait, hoping that perhaps the local/national political system will begin to represent them, things will continue to get worse.
There are some half decent reps inside AKL Council, but CB is most certainly not one them!
I would see the mayoral attack coming from CB/CF direction, as they want AKL assets, and they want them badly!
Thanks for the link. Yes, it covers a lot of important points, including this:
Lifting the minimum wage to $15 an hour, as proposed in my Bill awaiting debate in Parliament, will not change that overnight, but it is a step in the right direction.
The truth is New Zealand is a low wage economy. Despite National’s promise of a brighter future and closing the wage gap with Australia, every week a thousand kiwis leave New Zealand for Australia.
…
In fact, no direct link between lifting the minimum wage and job losses has ever been proved.
What has been proved is the destructive effect of poverty and inequality.
So it seems the cronyist links between Westpac and the NAct government continue to register at the edges of the media radar, with a failure for the government to fulfill its promise of opening its banking contract (currently with Westpac) for tender:
Westpac acts as the Government’s banker and holds the accounts of all government departments, but not Crown entities or state-owned enterprises. It is thought to be the largest banking contract in New Zealand and was last tendered in 1989.
In 2010, Finance Minister Bill English indicated he would run a procurement process for government banking to ensure the Crown was getting value for money.
But it is understood the Government is concerned the cost of tendering the contract could outweigh the benefits, because it already negotiates fee reductions with the bank, and there are complex arrangements with government departments.
…
In the past year former Cabinet minister Simon Power became the head of Westpac’s private bank, and English’s former press secretary Grant Fleming became Westpac’s government relations manager.
Greens co-leader Russel Norman says that shows there is a “cosy” relationship between the bank and the Government.
….
”Why does it not apply to Westpac when it seems to apply to everyone else? When it comes to banking, Westpac seems to have a dream run.”
Meanwhile, ex-NAct minister Simon Power, now with Westpac, is ensuring his current employer, Westpac, has a significant presence in Christchurch:
And more importantly – why is no one asking the question as to why the Government opts to bank with a foreign owned bank as opposed to using the bank that it conveniently happens to OWN?
Notwithstanding the fact that it would also provide additional capital reserves that apparently Kiwibank needs…
Whilst KiwiBank is doing a good job it is totally under capitalised.
It regularly borrows money from NZ Post (taxpayer) from inception to prop up its finanncial structure.
The Reserve Bank controls ALL Banks in New Zealand with secure financial limits.
It would take the total partial sale assets of a couple of SOE’s to pay back what it owes and to be lodged to set it up competively.
Could be done.
Current spread possibly but we are talking about going for Banker to the Government of New Zealand, not continuing in its current 5% and a bit market share.
‘concerned the cost of tendering the contract.’ yeah right Blagger Bill.
They burn piles of dosh on consultants and ticket clippers on the now stalled MOMathon, intended share giveaways, RONS with little or negative payback, consulting culture in and around treasury etc etc etc.
The arrogance continues to be world class from this gov’t but they’re consistent here with another broken promise.
National MPs on the Commerce Select Committee have misled New Zealanders on the options for saving public broadcaster TVNZ7 in a report released today, Labour’s broadcasting spokesperson Clare Curran says.
“The Government members of the Commerce Committee have claimed in their majority report that there was never any suggestion that Government funding would continue for TVNZ7 beyond the contracted period.
“But Cabinet documents clearly show that there were proposals considered and then rejected by the National Government that could have kept TVNZ7 running.
“The Government members have also refused to hear the views of the 36,000 petition signees to save TVNZ7. It is unacceptable that this committee has demonstrated a lack of respect or consideration for their views and refused to hear from them.
VITAMIN C CAN CURE: So why does Auckland Hospital REFUSE to give it to you?
________________________________________________________________________________
Man saved by Vitamin C to lead protest at Auckland Hospital
Allan Smith, whose life was saved in 2009 by intravenous Vitamin C at Auckland Hospital, will be protesting from 12-2 pm on September 15 … at Auckland Hospital – for turning its back on this life saving treatment.
Smith was featured on two segments on 60 Minutes in 2010.
60 Minutes detailed his surprising story of near fatal illness with Swine Flu and pneumonia, and the willingness of Auckland Hospital to “pull the plug” on him – kill him – rather than give him Vitamin C.
Vitamin C, especially in high doses, has been a well-known and scientifically accepted anti-viral for many years, andyet Auckland hospital initially refused to administer it,falsely claiming that they had “tried everything” to no avail.
When the hospital, under pressure from the family, finally andRELUCTANTLY administered the vitamin C, Smith began to show a dramatic improvement within days.
Within a few short weeks he was well again.
Unfortunately, Auckland Hospital and many other NZ hospitals seem to have learned nothing from the experience and to this day they actually REFUSE to administer vitamin C to patients presenting with acute viral illnesses such as flu.
They persistently and falsely claim that there is “no evidence” for the efficacy of vitamin C, but there is, indeed, massive amounts of evidence for it – even in their “peer reviewed” medical literature.
Vitamin C is even a registered medicine in New Zealand.
And yet they initially refused to give it to Allan Smith and they continue to refuse to give it to other people who are ill with viral (or bacterial) illnesses.
And some people reportedly have died as a result of this refusal to even try it!
Were it not for the persistence of Smith’s family, he would have died, too.
Whatever the reason for this intransigence in the face of the obvious successes of Vitamin C, the people of New Zealand deserve to have a medical system that is truly evidence-based, and is focussed entirely on the best recovery strategies available – rather than one that refuses to acknowledge its mistakes.
Across the board, mistakes such as this one are costing thousands of lives, in that the Medical System itself is now reliably VITAMIN C CAN CURE considered to be the third leading cause of death in New Zealand.
Why, we ask, is it so difficult for Auckland Hospital to learn from the case of Allan Smith? Why is so hard to admit that a mistake was made? … and then change a ridiculous policy that is costing lives and public health.
Contact: Allan Smith
Tel 07 873 7572
027-472-2975
________________________________________________________________________________
I’ll be there – outside Auckland Hospital from 12 noon – 2pm Saturday 15 September 2012.
errr…………… A bit of a NO-BRAINER I would have thought?
Aren’t hospitals and medical staff supposed to be in the business (as it were 🙂 of SAVING lives?
If Vitamin C can cure – why is Auckland Hospital refusing to give this treatment?
I’ll be protesting outside Auckland Hospital on 15 September 2012 from 12 noon to 2pm because I support this issue.
In my considered opinion, as a ‘veteran’ activist with over 40 years experience – ‘it’s the masses who get off their asses’ – who help bring about change.
Pity a few more people didn’t get off their butts and stand up to be counted, in order to help make a difference?
“If Vitamin C can cure – why is Auckland Hospital refusing to give this treatment?”
because it has never been proven and only tenuous links have been established. There have been no, to very few, double blind studies done and no real incontrovertible evidence that Vitamin C has any real effect.
The Vitamin C Can Cure Coalition is is a patient and family support group which has come together to promote the benefits of high dose vitamin C to resolve a variety of life threatening illnesses. We also exist to support patients’ rights to access to this treatment.
Intravenous vitamin C is a registered medicine in New Zealand, yet this medication is currently being refused patients requesting it in New Zealand hospitals. The dangers of such refusal is that it may lead to unnecessary deaths.
Intravenous vitamin C can be a lifesaving treatment when administered in a timely manner and in sufficient doses. Last year New Zealander Allan Smith was critically ill with swine flu and was facing death as his life support was going to be turned off. At his family’s request, Allan Smith was administered high dose intravenous vitamin C and made a full recovery and is alive and well today.
The Allan Smith Story
Allan Smith’s recovery from Swine Flu and Hairy Cell Leukemia was documented on TV3′s 60 Minutes Programme. The story may be viewed at this link on TV3′s website:
“Some physicians would stand by and see their patient die
rather than use ascorbic acid (vitamin C) because
in their finite minds it exists only as a vitamin”
– Dr. Frederick Robert Klenner
Sure. How about “that reminds me of the person who called everything a false-flag operation to the point that the person looked extremely delusional, but then it became evident that they didn’t know what ‘false flag’ actually meant. So beware of randoms on the internet making claims of miracles or conspiracies.”
Nah, where that went wrong for you was, you assumed I care what the “official definition” of a FF is, when I just use the term for things which smell bad!
You asked me my opinion, I gave it, you didn’t like it and have got your g string in a twist!
Okay then, it is apparent to me that you are an aardvark thinker. Although I’m not going to be nailed down by TPTB’s “official definition” of those words, but I’ll expect you to know what I mean.
It may look helpful to you, Penny, but I’m pretty sure if Contrarian responded by linking to a site called “novitaminccan’tcure.com” you might get an idea of why no one else finds it particularly compelling.
because it has never been proven and only tenuous links have been established. There have been no, to very few, double blind studies done and no real incontrovertible evidence that Vitamin C has any real effect.
A precious first, Contrarian… I agree wholeheartedly with you! 🙂
And more on NAct crony watch – Rebstock now confirmed as ACC chair and leader of its “culture change” – on her record, I can’t see that as being a change for the better:
Also joining Ms Rebstock on the board are financial adviser and Public Trust chairman Trevor Janes, Auckland University School of Medicine head Professor Des Gorman and public and medical law expert Kristy McDonald QC, who have all been appointed for three-year terms.
A fourth new board member has also been identified, but not named, and will start their role in 2013.
The new appointees will join the existing board members Jill Spooner, John Meehan and Jane Huria.
Ms Collins says the new appointments reflect the government’s commitment to rebuilding the public’s trust and confidence in ACC.
She said Ms Rebstock has “demonstrated a commitment to culture change at ACC”.
Also joining Ms Rebstock on the board are financial adviser and Public Trust chairman Trevor Janes, Auckland University School of Medicine head Professor Des Gorman and public and medical law expert Kristy McDonald QC, who have all been appointed for three-year terms.
A fourth new board member has also been identified, but not named, and will start their role in 2013.
The new appointees will join the existing board members Jill Spooner, John Meehan and Jane Huria.
Ms Collins says the new appointments reflect the government’s commitment to rebuilding the public’s trust and confidence in ACC.
She said Ms Rebstock has “demonstrated a commitment to culture change at ACC”.
There is a problem here, these are 3 year appointments and they are obviously political and ideological. The precedent is not good, should the government change and the direction / ideology change as well (by no means certain with PaganiLab) then they may just have to be ejected.
That’s not evidence TC. That’s a one man trial. It’s interesting, but it doesn’t count as even being close to evidence of anything other than that the treatment didn’t work for him.
You might have missed this in the article too –
“Debate about high-dose vitamin C had been raging for three decades and it was time proper clinical trials were conducted, he said. ”
(my emphasis). That’s a university researcher saying that there is no evidence either way yet.
btw, I don’t believe that Vit C is a cure for cancer. It might be helpful for some people.
Well, the burden of proof is on Penny not me. But you are right it isn’t evidence because there is no evidence the Vit. C can do what it claims and you can’t prove a negative.
So this is why I queried Penny’s protest. She is protesting that a hospital isn’t dosing people up with Vitamin C when there isn’t any evidence it’d be helpful at all.
But you are right it isn’t evidence because there is no evidence the Vit. C can do what it claims and you can’t prove a negative.
Pure BS. You have no idea what you are talking about.
You can demonstrate that something has no clinical effect. Its what ordinary drug tirals do all the time. That is not the case for vitamin C where the evidence remains inconclusive.
Its called the burden of proof. The burden of proof is on Penny who says Vitamin C has clinical effect so it is up to her to provide evidence and she made the original claim and her original claim is a positive assertion.
“The only side effect of high doses of ascorbate is a mild laxative effect. There are no reliable reports of severe ascorbate toxicity, such as acidosis or kidney stones.”
“If Vitamin C has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient , I do question why a hospital wouldn’t at least try it.”
True, but why not try Vitamin D? Or any other substance for that matter.
“has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient” is not a good way of deciding on treatment and the fear, as pointed out by medical officials is that people won’t seek proper medical treatment thinking instead of trying Vitamin C
My reference to “no likelihood of posing danger to a patient” rests on the logic that if something is believed to help a condition, that it has helped others, yet has not been through a rigorous scientific testing process-then I see no problem with giving it to patients who are requesting it as long as it will do no harm.
I believe medical staff are under an oath to do no harm. I assumed this would be the reason why they are not giving it to patients who request it.
“has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient” is not a good way of deciding on treatment and the fear, as pointed out by medical officials is that people won’t seek proper medical treatment thinking instead of trying Vitamin C
Dude, the man was in a coma in the hospital. Do you really think that there was a fear that he would try vitamin C and not seek medical treatment?
Here’s a good look at the ethics of the situation, including details of what the man went through, and how the family had to get lawyers and the HDC involved in what eventually saved his life. (the link shows an ODT article by Grant Gillett, professor of medical ethics at the University of Otago Bioethics Centre)
Hospitals don’t “try it” as there is no evidence that it works in a positive manner in vivo in any variety of cancer patient.
In terms of the occasional anecdotal report as per that provided by PB in a patient with the viral infections supportive data in this group is also lacking.
Medicine is (or at least should be) evidence based – particularly in hospitals. You can’t have people just whacking up any old treatment because it might not do any harm based on anecdotal evidence.
They need to protect themselves as well as the patient and you’d be one death away from a serious issue.
Higherstandard doesn’t make a good point, supplying investigative outcomes to the taking of Vit C orally when the discussion is about high dose intravenous application is not an effective response to what I posted.
“They need to protect themselves aswell…”
Which is precisely why I mentioned that if it does no harm…If it is clear that a patient is not going to be poisoned by the substance, and alongside the information supplied in this thread, that people have responded well to this treatment it appears a shame NOT to try it.
It wasn’t just any old treatment though. It’s a treatment that some physicians use.
Doctor’s prescribe drugs for off label use quite often.
Personally if I was dying, I’d be happy to try any old treatment.
I take your point about hospitals needing to protect themselves. And I agree that drugs should be properly tested But there are also situations where that is not appropriate and this case appears to be one of them.
If you’re taking about high dose iv Vit C as far as I’m aware there is no in vivo data showing it to be efficacious.
I do know there are a couple of GPs supplying it for cancer patients that request it but no one in the hospital system would touch it as it is costly in both time and money for no gain and they have proven interventions to provide.
In response to Weka – would you prefer an intervention that was proven to have a benefit recommended by a specialist prior to “trying anything” ?
Frankly if there was any evidence too support giving it most doctors and PHARMAC would be delighted.
” alongside the information supplied in this thread, that people have responded well to this treatment it appears a shame NOT to try it.”
The information is anecdotal. The scientific evidence, the medical evidence (what scant there is at this time) points to it not being an adequate or proper treatment for any condition neither have any studies proven any efficacy from its application.
In that case any doctor is going to shy away from using anything with any clear studies and research to back it up.
They place to test study such things isn’t by randomly shooting up patients in a hospital because it mightn’t hurt. You need double-blind, studies on a large group with a single methodology and similar doses vs. similar conditions – until such a time that takes place I think it is a good thing our hospitals are not used as laboratories.
“In response to Weka – would you prefer an intervention that was proven to have a benefit recommended by a specialist prior to “trying anything” ?”
I’d prefer it if the medical establishment weren’t so closedminded, or captured by bigpharma. We’ve had decades to get over this chasm between mainstream and alternative medicine. Fault is on both sides, but just because some medical doctors say something doesn’t make it so. They have massive gaps in their knowledge and experience.
Here’s an example. Many people mitigate or completely relieve the effects of arthritis by making changes to their diets. Most doctors will say that there is no connection. I think there may now be some acceptance of taking things like glucosamine, but in general the line is that there is no evidence or even any useful theory. And yet many people are treating themselves and getting good results. Yes, that’s anecdotal, but if the people are feeling better, what is the problem? It’s not that people are self treating with diet. It’s that medical people aren’t taking that seriously and investigating it.
But to answer your question directly, honestly, if I was dying, I would be looking at the available options from within and outside mainstream medicine. Yes, trials and specialists are very useful, but they’re not the be all and end all. Drug trials aren’t the only useful way of knowing what works. As I already commented, off label use of drugs is not uncommon.
btw, I think there is a huge amount of bullshit within the alternative sector too. I just don’t think that doctors are god.
TC, if you are going to make claims for a study, you need to link to the full article. Lots of dubious research going on, even in peer reviewed journals.
I’m not saying this isn’t reliable research (and as stated, I don’t believe that vitamin C can cure cancer), but it’s not enough to present and abstract and ask everyone to trust.
I’m interested to know if you think that the hospital should have refused to give the vit C to the man with bird flu and pneumonia.
I’m interested to know if you think that the hospital should have refused to give the vit C to the man with bird flu and pneumonia.
There was a well publicised case a couple years back of a Kiwi farmer who was almost fatally struck down by swine flu. Made it to TV in fact. His family finally convinced the hospital (AKL hospital?) to give his comatose body huge dosages of vitamin C and he started recovery almost immediately.
The ‘funny’ thing was that every time supervising doctors changed shift a new boss doctor would come onboard and go “WTF? Vitamin C? Get that quackery outta here”. They’d yank the IV lines out and literally, he would start to die again in front of their eyes until the family pleaded enough to restart it.
“Ascorbic acid (vitamin C, ascorbate) has a controversial history in cancer treatment (1). Observational reports described ascorbate, given in pharmacologic doses of 10 g daily, as effective in treating some cancers and in improving patient well-being (2-4).
Subsequently, the same dose had no effect on patient well-being and survival in two double-blind placebo-controlled trials, and ascorbate was discarded as a treatment modality (5, 6).
Recent clinical evidence, however, indicates that the role of ascorbate in cancer treatment should be examined anew (7). THE ORIGINALLY REPORTED OBSERVATIONAL STUDIES USED I.V. AND ORAL ASCORBATE, BUT THE SUBSEQUENT DOUBLE-BLIND PLACEBO-CONTROLLED STUDIES USED ONLY ORAL ASCORBATE. It was not recognized that the route of ascorbate administration might produce large differences in plasma concentrations….Despite inconsistencies, some in vitro studies showed that ascorbate killed cancer cells, although mechanisms and physiologic relevance were unclear (10-12). Complementary and alternative medicine practitioners worldwide currently use ascorbate i.v. in some patients, in part because there is no apparent harm (13-15).” [My emphasis]
“TC, if you are going to make claims for a study, you need to link to the full article. Lots of dubious research going on, even in peer reviewed journals”
I can’t really with this one – it’s a paid service (most medical journals are) and sharing a copy if i did purchase it could possibly break copyright.
“I’m interested to know if you think that the hospital should have refused to give the vit C to the man with bird flu and pneumonia.”
I am not sure to be honest, I wasn’t there and can’t really answer outside yes because it is an untested, non-evidence based treated and no because the man and his family make the ultimate choice in the matter. I can’t really answer.
However, back to the original post, I don’t Penny Bright is particularly, errrr, ‘bright’ in protesting a hospital for not using a technique without sufficient scientific backing.
You just need to link to articles that are open access or have been reviewed elsewhere 😉
btw, a single study of vitamin C used to treat a specific kind of cancer is not evidence that vitamin C has no clinical use at all.
Vitamin C is a registered medicine. It’s use for the man with flu/pneumonia was (presumably) off-label drug use. Is there a reason why that can’t be done again, in a careful considered way?
Well, the burden of proof is on Penny not me. But you are right it isn’t evidence because there is no evidence the Vit. C can do what it claims and you can’t prove a negative.
Actually the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that Vitamin C is not an effective cancer treatment. If you cannot, you’re basing your belief on nothing but hot air.
Evidence that Vitamin C is a viable cancer treatment has been around since 1976,
when double Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling and Scottish surgeon Ewan Cameron showed an unparalleled increase in survival times in terminal cancer patients treated with vitamin C.
Tests confirm that the ascorbate-treated patients and the matched controls are representative subpopulations of the same population of “untreatable” patients. Survival times were measured not only from the date of “untreatability” but also from the precisely known date of first hospital attendance for the cancer that eventually reached the terminal stage. The ascorbate-treated patients were found to have a mean survival time about 300 days greater than that of the controls. Survival times greater than 1 yr after the date of untreatability were observed for 22% of the ascorbate-treated patients and for 0.4% of the controls. The mean survival time of these 22 ascorbate-treated patients is 2.4 yr after reaching the apparently terminal stage; 8 of the ascorbate-treated patients are still alive, with a mean survival time after untreatability of 3.5 yr.
The reason the medical profession don’t recognize such studies is because cancer is a multi million dollar business that would not be anywhere near as profitable if people were encouraged to us a cheap and readily available treatment such as Vitamin C.
The information is anecdotal. The scientific evidence, the medical evidence (what scant there is at this time) points to it not being an adequate or proper treatment for any condition neither have any studies proven any efficacy from its application.
Oh dear… You really are an ignorant doofus! Vitamin C has been used to treat many ailments from Autism to LSD Abuse. It’s an essential vitamin after all that if depleted can cause serious health problems. Vitamin C helps the immune and the detoxification system to function properly. It has also been empirically proven with many peer reviewed scientific studies to help cancer patients.
But don’t let your ignorance stop you from making a fool of yourself TheContrarian.
Wow! That’s your evidence… An article written by Shaun Holt from Tauranga? FFS!
Are you aware that the Mayo Clinic study used relatively low oral doses for short periods, rather than the combination of high oral and intravenous (IV) doses in the Pauling and Cameron study?
Clearly that’s not debunking! It’s the pharmaceutical industry trying and failing to discredit alternative medication that works. Were you also aware that the Mayo Clinic has refused to provide anybody with all their research data so their process can be verified. As a result, the Mayo Clinic study is next to useless!
Besides, in 1982 a study (PDF) by Murata A. Morishige F. Yamaguchi H confirmed Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron’s findings. Administering large doses of ascorbate prolongs survival times of terminal cancer patients.
Ascorbic acid and its salts (AA) are preferentially toxic to tumor cells in vitro and in vivo. Given in high enough doses to maintain plasma concentrations above levels that have been shown to be toxic to tumor cells in vitro, AA has the potential to selectively kill tumor cells in a manner similar to other tumor cytotoxic chemotherapeutic agents. Most studies of AA and cancer to date have not utilized high enough doses of AA to maintain tumor cytotoxic plasma concentrations of AA. Data are presented which demonstrate the ability to sustain plasma levels of AA in humans above levels which are toxic to tumor cells in vitro and suggests the feasibility of using AA as a cytotoxic chemotherapeutic agent.
That initial study by Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron in 1976 was reevaluated and confirmed as correct by them in 1978. In fact its been verified on numerous occasions by institutions and researchers who don’t have a vested interest.
Large dosses of Vitamin C is a proven treatment higherstandard.
BTW, I linked to the wrong study above. The Murata A, Morishige F, Yamaguchi H study states:
Clinical trials administering supplemental ascorbate to terminal cancer patients were conducted at two hospitals in Japan. During the period 1973-1977 there were 99 patients with terminal cancer at the Fukuoka Torikai Hospital. The average times of survival after the date of designation as terminal were 43 days for 44 low-ascorbate patients and 246 days for 55 high-ascorbate patients. Three of the high-ascorbate patients were still alive, their average survival being 1550 days, on April 1, 1980. Similar effectiveness of ascorbate was also observed at the Kamioka Kozan Hospital. There were 31 patients with terminal cancer during the period 1975-1979. The average survival times were 48 days for 19 control patients and 115 days for 6 high-ascorbate patients. One of the high-ascorbate patients was still alive, his survival being 215 days. In addition to the increase in survival times, the administration of large doses of ascorbate seemed to improve the quality of life.
So those three independent studies I’ve linked to, which all have similar results prove nothing? It would seem that just like the doofus you’re only proving your own ignorance HS.
As I’ve said there is no reliable evidence that Vitamin C of any dose has a beneficial effect for patients suffering from tumours.
However if you are unlucky enough to ever be diagnosed with cancer there are a number of places in NZ you can access iv Vitamin C should you think it will be of benefit to you.
I would however suggest you access the more proven and effective mainstream therapies before going down that track.
Why are those studies laughable exactly? People cannot access Vitamin C treatment in a public hospital HS, which was kind of Penny’s point in the first place. PS my names not Todd.
They cannot access Vitamin C in a public hospital due to its lack of proven efficacy, they can access it from a number of alternative medicine clinics around NZ.
Not surprisingly there are no reports from these alternative medicine centres of miraculous outcomes.
I haven’t the time or will power to attempt to educate you on what constitutes a well designed reliable trial but feel free to investigate on google scholar or the like.
I refer to your previous handle which was Todd prior to the Jackal I believe.
You haven’t the time HS because you’re talking shit. Those studies I’ve linked to constitute well designed and reliable research, unlike the piece of rubbish you linked to.
Answer me this if you can. Clearly the pharmaceutical industry has an ulterior motive to show that Vitamin C is not a viable medicine… What would be the ulterior motive for the researchers/scientists who show that high doses of vitamin C can treat cancer? Why would they lie HS?
Todd the studies you linked to were nether blinded, nor randomised according to tumour type, KS or previous treatment chemotherapy.
The commentary I linked to had a number of references at the bottom some of which are to randomised blinded studies if you would care to look the trials showing no effect of Vitamin C have generally been funded via the institution where they have been carried out of via educational grants.
If the pharmaceutical industry had any inkling that vitamin C was useful in cancer or nay other illness they would make minor modifcations in the molecule to make it more efficacious patent it and make a fortune.
I would dearly like vitamin C to be useful in the treatment of cancer due to its low toxicity unfortunately there balance of evidence suggests that this is the case.
Wrong again HS. Many of the studies showing a positive result are clinical trials that don’t actually require blinded testing. However the Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron study used a thousand matched controls. This is used for observational data (i.e. non experimental data).
It’s obvious that you don’t really know what you’re talking about and haven’t even bothered to read that study properly, so here’s the guts of it again:
Analysis of the survival-time curves indicated that deaths occur for about 90% of the ascorbate-treated patients at one third the rate for the controls and that the other 10% have a much greater survival time.
You will find that any studies you’re able to provide that show Vitamin C has no effect on cancer tumors was because they didn’t use it at a high enough dose to achieve plasma concentrations that are generally cytotoxic to tumor cells.
I like your Freudian slip there BTW. On the balance of evidence it really does seem to be the case that Vitamin C is an effective treatment for cancer.
“Many of the studies showing a positive result are clinical trials that don’t actually require blinded testing.”
Todd you don’t have the foggiest idea what you’re talking about, Paulins study has been evaluated and critiqued repeatedly and is still taught in medical shools in relation to poor study design.
To quote the chief of the clinical investigations branch of the National Cancer Institute’s cancer therapy program…..
‘…the vitamin C and control groups had not been properly matched, no data had been published to demonstrate that the patients had been matched by stage of their disease, functional ability, weight loss, and sites of metastasis, all of which are important judging the stage of the disease. Pauling and Cameron’s patients began getting vitamin C when Cameron judged them “untreatable” and their subsequent survival was compared to that of the control patients from the time they had been labeled “untreatable.”
If the two groups were comparable, the average time from the initial diagnosis to “untreatable” status should be similar for both groups. But they were not. Hence Cameron’s patients had been labeled untreatable earlier in the course of their disease and would therefore be expected to live longer, also more than 20% of the patients in the control group had died within a few days of being labeled untreatable, whereas none of Cameron’s patients had died. This, too, suggested that Cameron’s patients had had less advanced disease when they were labeled untreatable…..’
As I’ve said if you are unfortunate enough to be diagnosed with cancer feel free to try alternative methods, I’ll stick with proven therapies.
Apologies for my poor typing this morning phones are shite to type upon.
Your evidence is an article written by Shaun Holt from Tauranga and one Medical Doctor… C’mon HS, surely you can do better than that?
Firstly William D. DeWys “research” does not seem to be available online? Secondly he makes a number of unfounded statements that are easily refuted.
Here’s how the selection process was undertaken:
The original group of matched controls was selected by senior members of the Medical Records Staff in Vale of Leven Hospital, who were asked to produce records of 10 patients for each ascorbate-treated patient matched as to sex, age (to within 5 yr), and tumor type (site of the primary cancer and histological type), without regard as to whether or not death had occurred. The individual case records were then examined by a physician employed for this purpose, Frances Meuli, who first determined the date of untreatability by such conventional standards as the establishment of inoperability at laparotomy, the abandonment of any definitive form of anti-cancer treatment, or the date of admission terminal nursing care and then calculated the survival time from that date until the factually recorded date of death. In carrying out her survey, Meuli was unaware of the survival times of the 100 ascorbate-treated test patients. In order to avoid possible bias, we did not supervise her work closely or attempt to refine it.
Looks like your doctor DeWys is full of shit HS. It would really help the debate if you actually bothered to read the research instead of regurgitating what is obviously false information… But I guess I’m asking for too much?
Pauling however, tended to get more and more bizarre in his claims regarding the utility of Vitamin C. As I’ve said previously if you are unfortunate enough to ever suffer from cancer I’d recommend starting with proven inteventions rather than the like of high dose iv Vitamin C.
DeWys is clearly full of shit HS. The paragraph I’ve quoted from Pauling and Cameron’s reevaluation study totally contradicts what he has said. DeWys claims that it was Linus Pauling himself who chose the test subjects when it was in fact senior members of the Medical Records Staff in Vale of Leven Hospital.
It really comes down to who has a reason to lie… I’ve provided a reason why the pharmaceutical industry would promote false information. I ask again… Why would Pauling and Cameron and all the other scientists and researchers who have shown high doses of Vitamin C can treat cancer lie?
As I’ve said previously if you are unfortunate…
Why do you keep repeating yourself like a broken record HS? This is becoming tedious! Let me know if you can provide some actual evidence that Vitamin C doesn’t work to treat cancer. Until then I think we should just agree to disagree.
Todd, to suggest that this is some cover up by pharmaceutical suppliers is bizarre – Vit C is available from many alternative medical practitioners here and overseas who offer it alone or along with other therapies to persons who are mistrusting of standard treatment or who have no other options. It is not used for the treatment of cancer by the vast majority of oncologists due to there being no compelling data that is efficacious.
I repeat myself as you do not seem to understand that there is no robust evidence to support the use of Vit C in the treatment of cancer and it is wisest to defer to the experts in the field of medical, and radiation oncology for treatment options which have been the subject of more robust scientific study.
Regarding Pauling’s motives I do note that from histories online The Linus Pauling Institute of Science and Medicine was founded in 1973 and operated under that name until 1995 [20]. The institute was dedicated to “orthomolecular medicine.” For many years, its largest corporate donor was Hoffmann-La Roche, the pharmaceutical giant that produces most of the world’s vitamin C. Many of the institute’s fundraising brochures contained questionable information. During the 1980s, for example, they falsely stated that no significant progress had been made in cancer treatment during the previous twenty years.
So you’ve discredited double Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling by providing information from a very dubious website. How do you propose to discredit Murata A, Morishige F, Yamaguchi H, N. H. Riordan, H. D. Riordan, X. Meng, Y. LI and J. A. Jackson, who are just a few of the researchers and scientists that found similar results?
You’re suggesting that there’s some sort of worldwide conspiracy to provide false information about Vitamin C so that manufacturers can sell more. Just to let you know, Acorbate can be purchased for as little as $1 per kg and even less in larger quantities.
In comparison, here’s a breakdown of what cancer treatment costs in the US:
Researchers used data from the Surveillance, Epidemiology, and End-Results (SEER) Medicare database to examine the costs of initial cancer treatments in 306,709 breast, colorectal, lung and prostate cancer patients over the age of 65. These treatments included surgery, chemotherapy, radiation and other hospitalization.
Over the ten-year period studied, the average cost of breast cancer treatment increased $4,189 to $20,964. The average cost of treating prostate cancer increased $5,435 to $41,134, while the average cost of lung cancer treatment went up $7,139 to $39,891.
Nobody is going to get rich from using Vitamin C to treat cancer HS. Which makes the latest twist to your now completely defunct argument laughable!
Not at all, Only Paulings views on cancer and Vitamin C/orthmolecular medicine have been discredited which in his defense he was starting to get somewhat senile towards the end of his life so one cannot really level any serious accusations at him, the vast majority of his scientific work was magnificent this can be said of many famous scientists and even several nobel laureates – I don’t think any of them would claim that every theory they had ever promulgated was correct.
I’m not suggesting there’s any sort of worldwide conspiracy at all, that appears to be your position in relation to the unwillingness of health professionals in particular those in the area of oncology to utilise Vitamin C to treat cancer, my position is that it is not used by health professionals in this setting as it has no utility.
Yes I do realise ascorbate is cheap as are many if not most APIs, this does not mean the actually finished product can be provided to patients cheaply and indeed even if they can be provided to patients cheaply there are unscrupulous individuals such as our own infamous Milan Brych who made fortunes from quackery.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to suggest in relation to cancer costs in the US ?
I cannot find any verifiable information to show that Linus Pauling suffered from senility. You’re not making shit up again are you HS? This is the usual baseless accusations leveled against researchers by people who don’t like the results and have a vested interest in keeping the status quo.
The US cancer treatment costs from 2005 are to show the difference between conventional and alternative treatment using Acorbate. As clearly stated, nobody is going to get rich by using Vitamin C to treat Cancer, and that’s one of the reasons it’s not being utilized. There is therefore no financial reason to promote false information to promote Vitamin C as you believe. You must be suffering a bit of senility yourself if you didn’t understand that HS.
Your contention that Acorbate needs to have extensive changes made so it can be utilized is obviously incorect! The studies show that Acorbate in its present form is effective at treating cancer if administered at high enough doses intravenously and orally.
I’m not suggesting there’s any sort of worldwide conspiracy at all.
Then how do you explain the researchers and scientists listed above having the same results as Linus Pauling’s study if it’s not a conspiracy between them?
In contrast, I think it is a deplorable conspiracy to not generally use a cheap and effective alternative medication to treat a disease that one in three Kiwis will suffer from. Clearly there’s a profit motive to repressing an inexpensive medication and pharmaceutical companies are not beyond reproach. For instance Glaxo Smith and Kline was recently fined $3 billion for putting peoples lives in danger purely to make money. That criminal proceeding was an isolated case lost in a sea of medical corruption.
Whether you like it or not HS, there is robust evidence that shows categorically that high doses of Vitamin C is effective at treating cancer. I’ve provided some of this information here to which you’ve not adequately responded. That’s because there’s far more scientific research that shows Vitamin C is an effective treatment than says it isn’t.
Therefore there is a consensus amongst scientists that it works… It just needs to be recognized by medical practitioners, who unfortunately are in the pocket of big pharmaceutical companies. Until their profit motive to use inferior and more expensive medications is addressed, cancer patients will continue to not have ready access to an a proven and inexpensive treatment that works.
You still have not linked to DeWys’ “research” that apparently discredits the Reevaluation of prolongation of survival times in terminal human cancer? Making claims that are unverifiable is what quackery is all about. But feel free to keep quacking if you like HS.
There’s really little point in trying to educate you on the methodologies and rationale supported by vast amounts of reputable, repeatable and robust clinical research for treating the various types of cancers they way we do and the various costs associated with either surgery, radiation and chemotherapy or combinations of all three as you appear set in your mind set that it’s all a massive conspiracy by company/s and person’s unknown who’ve duped the medical profession, regulators and scientists into treating cancer patients how we do rather than with Vitamin C.
It’s not odd at all to believe that the majority of studies into using Vitamin C to treat cancer are correct. If people just accepted the status quo as it is, we would never have any progress at all.
I don’t know why you bother to continue this debate with Higher Than a Kite, for despite having provided it with plenty of reasoned argument, AND evidence it continues to ignore you and bang on about “there being no evidence” when both you and myself provided substantial evidence that it has been an effective treatment. (the evidence I provided indicated that it would be worth further investigation).
Science would have gotten nowhere if the view prevailed that anything that hasn’t been fully scientifically evaluated doesn’t exist and is of no effect.
That it is now deemed only those with money are allowed the privilege to decide what gets scientifically evaluated or not, and that that decision is left to their poor imaginations as to what will lead to profit and what won’t, then methinks this situation is going to lead us to less and less discoveries.
BL and Todd are either of you are qualified cancer specialists, clinicians of any sort or do you have science background ?
The evidence that Vitamin C has any utility in the treatment of cancer has not been demonstrated in any useful manner the interventions which are used in the treatment of cancer have been proven useful in modern blinded trials which is why those treating patients with cancer utilise these proven interventions and continue to treat and trial new interventions which may improve patient outcomes this has lead to major advances in the outcomes of patients with many tumour types over the last several decades
“Recent clinical evidence, however, indicates that the role of ascorbate in cancer treatment should be examined anew …Despite inconsistencies, some in vitro studies showed that ascorbate killed cancer cells, although mechanisms and physiologic relevance were unclear “
No well designed in vivo studies have shown a benefit of vitamin c in the treatment of cancer.
The thing that irked me about the comment by TJ was…
‘The reason the medical profession don’t recognize such studies is because cancer is a multi million dollar business that would not be anywhere near as profitable if people were encouraged to us a cheap and readily available treatment such as Vitamin C.’
To suggest that oncologists only utilise surgery, radiotherapy and chemotherapy to treat cancer due to some profit motive is offensive.
To suggest that oncologists only utilise surgery, radiotherapy and chemotherapy to treat cancer due to some profit motive is offensive.
Agreed. They utilise those methods because its the only options those practitioners are exposed to in their training and the only options they are given in a hospital setting.
The filtering happens faraway at the business case level in the big pharma and medical device corporates. There is nothing patentable or profitable about IV Vit C so no surprise it goes no where.
Yes that’s obviously the reason, all clinicians, regulatory authorities, researchers, patient advocacy groups and QANGOS such as PHARMAC have been duped.
PS I am being sarcastic as this is about as useful as debating 9/11 with Eve.
hs – don’t be a dick. I stated very clearly that the decisions are made BEFORE it gets to PHARMAC or any front line clinicians. Don’t go intellectually blind on me all of a sudden and refuse to think by hiding behind the Twin Towers.
You seem to be trying to say that pharmaceutical corporates don’t assess potential products for profitability before committing to their development, and that they don’t cull out all but the most financially promising treatment candidates/areas of health. Of course they do. They are profit driven private enterprises.
Its why we have a shitload ofexpensive drugs to deal with important health problems like Developed World Impotence and Developed World Obesity, and fuck all antibiotics for the 3rd world.
CV I’m not being a dick just frustrated that persons such as yourself continue to spread such inanity and false hope and then seek to accuse some dark motive and cover up as the obvious rationale as to why no one heeds your advice.
for your information the WHO via a number of pharmaceutical companies in india and the like supplies anti virals, anti biotics and other medical supplies into the third world at very reasonable pricing.
Similarly R&D in the pharmaceutical arena is carried out less and less by the huge pharmaceutical players as they are Dilbert like and more and more by very small researchers like those we have in Dunedin, Wellington and Auckland.
Phase 1 and 11 research has been and is being carried out with iv Vitamin C by laboratories under the auspices of the NCI in a number of tumour types with less than exciting results.
If it worked, Pharmac would demand it be used. Just like they demand the cheapest of any other drug be used, if mostly effective. This is the problem patients whose meds don’t relieve their disease face – Pharmac will not sign up to expensive drugs if there are, in their opinion, cheaper alternatives that suit most people. If there was evidence Vitamin C worked Pharmac would be all over it.
A case of watch this space if Vit C is proved useful.
There is an issue regarding what gets studied. I.e something may be effective, yet not so easily capitalized on therefore something that IS easier to capitalize on will be chosen over it.
Blue Leopard, I understand your issues with pharmaceutical corporations, and it is valid in a profit-driven health service, but I think you’ve missed the point entirely. Pharmac have been shown to be quite willing to dump big pharma and it’s take on research outcomes to save money. That’s Pharmac’s brief. Keep the population provided with the drugs required, but at the cheapest possible price. The Herceptin issue is a case in point. So is funding for advanced auto-immune disease suppressants.
Pharmac will also fund research if they think a drugs regime that big pharma doesn’t want will save money. Once again the Herceptin debate is a good example. Pharmac will not rule out vitamin C if it thinks there is a chance that it will be effective at a cheaper price than any other drug. And with Vitamin C, that would have to be about all of them (barring, maybe, methotrexate and similar very old chemotherapy drugs). It simply makes no sense that Pharmac would abandon this model to avoid using Vitamin C if it was effective.
Its good to here that about Pharmac, however it would appear that if the rigorous clinical trials have not been conducted, I suspect that Pharmac could not follow the course of action you are suggesting they do.
From what you say, however, hopefully when word finally gets to them of the following studies, they might fund the further clinical trials recommended on the matter:
Pharmacologic ascorbic acid concentrations selectively kill cancer cells: action as a pro-drug to deliver hydrogen peroxide to tissues:
Cystic Fybrosis barely understandable however scroll to ‘discussion’
“Several candidate molecules have been shown to be effective CFTR activators in vitro or in vivo (35); however, the majority of compounds that activate CFTR have additional pharmacological effects, whereas vitamin C is on the FDA’s list of substances generally recognized as safe, and mega-doses of vitamin C (up to 2.5 g/day) are well tolerated (33). Our study highlights the potential therapeutic use of vitamin C as a safe, nontoxic, and efficacious small molecule for the activation of CFTR-mediated Cl transport in epithelia.”
I do believe there are issues surrounding scientific study that can warp outcomes.
I provide a link about the issue which describes the summary of a report written by UCS (Union of Concerned Scientists)
One thing that they don’t mention, which I have seen conveyed regarding scientific study is that the required finance will often flow where the most profits are to be had (understandable self interest in the part of investors, however this can lead to some areas of knowledge lacking the investigation it deserves)
No Jackal, you have it all wrong. The Burden of Proof lies on someone making the positive claim i.e. Vitamin C is a viable cancer treatment. I didn’t make that claim, you and Penny have therefore the Burden on Proof is on you.
Specifically that ‘Under Attack section which lists an example of the burden of proof fallacy as thus,
“I don’t need to prove my claim – you must proof it is false”.
Hence your comment:
“…the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that Vitamin C is not an effective cancer treatment…”
is logically invalid.
No Jackal, you have it all wrong. The Burden of Proof lies on someone making the positive claim i.e. Vitamin C is a viable cancer treatment. I didn’t make that claim, you and Penny have therefore the Burden on Proof is on you.
Those are peer reviewed studies. Three studies saying Vitamin C works to treat cancer compared to your none saying it doesn’t work… Are you guys being stupid on purpose?
Fisi anal Not true when it comes to this disease Alan Smith was in a coma for along time and everything they threw at him antibiotics etc did not work however after a short spell on high dose vitamin C he recovered miraculously Research in this area has not been carried out to completely dismiss it would be foolish.
Some of the inaudible parts of the speech in the press release would look just as legit if they were redactions. eg “we will be doing it in (inaudible) but we hope (inaudible) look after its own security.” Hmmm..?
actually, there is a new potential warlord in town, so chew on those noodles
Christchurch: It was cold, and the servants and officials stood around a fire they had made to keep warm. Peter also was standing with them, warming himself.
As Simon Peter stood warming him-self, he was asked, “You are not one of his disciples, are you?
He denied it, saying, “I am not.”
“What is truth?” Pilate asked.
(u could not make this stuff up)
🙂
I hope that, on top of all the concern shown about child poverty, people will not have missed the dismal news of the rise in youth suicide (including at least one preteen child). Since the last quarter, suicides of those aged between 20 and 24 have risen from 11.4% to 13.5%; Ages between 15 and 19 have risen from from 25.5% to 27.5%.
There will be a number of causes, largely on account of government “policies”, but 28% of the dead were unemployed, many depressed. Back in May, our youth unemployment had the 19th highest rate in OECD countries. Co-founder of the Foundation for Youth Development (FYD), Graeme Dingle, says “Youth unemployment is a growing issue and one that will have a huge impact on the country. If it is left to fester the cost is simply unaffordable in the long run.””
Key boasts today of devoting 62 million dollars to problems of youth, but fails to mention this is to cover a four year period.
Many will be tempted to think, “well, these figures reflect only upon Maori, so what?” Maori and Pakeha are all together citizens of Aotearoa/New Zealand, suicides (whatever the cause) are not to be fixed upon any one race.
We have no idea, of course, of the huge number of attempted and unsuccessful suicides, hospitalised or covered up. How many were due to undue risks, for example in the road toll? Countless people are engaging in “suicidal living patterns”.
Very many human beings have little, if any, conscience or compassion, we have to accept that this is the fact. But, at the least, people might be bothered for basic economical reasons.
The experts in this field will have some sort of formula with which to get a rough idea of failed attempts v “successful” attempts. I have no idea where you would find this for NZ, unfortunately.
A WHO study estimates in Cananda 80-90% of suicide attempts fail.
Dr Terry wrote ” Since the last quarter, suicides of those aged between 20 and 24 have risen from 11.4% to 13.5%; Ages between 15 and 19 have risen from from 25.5% to 27.5%. ”
I dont understand these figures. 25-27% of those aged 15-19 commit suicide?
Yes it sounds shockingly high to say that almost one third of particular group are suicidal. Maybe they are. Otherwise the percentage increase relates to the figure of the period before, though in this case not supplied, i.e. let’s says 10 people died last year, and this year 12 or 13 people died; an increase on 10 by 27.5%
Clashman. For better accuracy, I suggest you research on Google. Sorry if my figures are misleading. I want only to point very clearly to the seriousness of the situation. What you quote from a Canadian source is probably fairly accurate for our society too.
From a quick look here; http://socialreport.msd.govt.nz/health/suicide.html it seems the figures should be per 100,000, not percentages.
That makes alot more sense to me.
I’m certainly not trying to diminish the seriousness of the situation, I just couldn’t get my head around the figuresquoted.
From memory, the latest coroner release might have been saying that 27% of those who committed suicide were aged 15-19.
But the point is valid – the government might hand-wring when attention is paid to the issue, but they sure won’t bother addressing any of the contributing factors (not solely economic, not solely counselling availability or bullying – it’s a very complex issue). I’m pretty sure this government will avoid 9 out of 10 of any identified possible contributing solutions, choosing only the least expensive tenth. But they’ll announce it 9 ties.
Here’s erstwhile suicide advocate Michael Laws this morning on Radio Live, putting on his deadly serious low voice, pretending to be compassionate and concerned about teen suicide: “I sometimes wonder if we shouldn’t show the faces of the hanging corpses.”
The woman caller on the other end of the line, obviously horrified, gasped, “Oh NO.”
And Family First, as part of it’s Marriage campaign, scores an own goal by trying to mock and satirise the high level of suicide amongst young LGBT people:
Family First is being slammed for “making light of youth suicide in New Zealand” within a blog post which compares the fight for marriage equality to rugby and soccer.
Many will be tempted to think, “well, these figures reflect only upon Maori, so what?
Excuse me, WTF? It’s not only Maori, never has been and never will be…
The child who killed himself was non-Maori, and while there are proportionally fewer unemployed white people than there are unemployed Maori, there are still a huge number of unemployed white people.
It’s very unhelpful to make out that it’s all about Maori… as it’s equally unhelpful to say it’s all about yoof. To use a phrase that makes my teeth ache but it nevertheless true – older, white unemployed people, and older white people who kill themselves, are ‘doubly invisible’, as for various reasons the media really don’t get too exercised about white unemployed people, or non-yoof suicides. Disclosure: A family member, a white man in his forties committed suicide 8 years ago, and I was stunned. The media, awareness groups etc had me convinced that a 40-something suiciding was so unlikely as to be impossible…
The point is, our ability to broadcast was entirely dependent on poorly-programmed bots. And once those bots had made their incorrect decision, there was absolutely nothing we could do to restart the signal, as it were. In case anyone still believes that copyright rules can’t stop free speech or snuff out a community, the automated censorship of the Hugo Awards is a case in point.
Robots killed our legitimate broadcast. Welcome to the present.
Someone should ask John Key about his former mates are up to …
“Even as Greece desperately tries to avoid defaulting on its debt, American companies are preparing for what was once unthinkable: that Greece could soon be forced to leave the euro zone.
Bank of America Merrill Lynch has looked into filling trucks with cash and sending them over the Greek border so clients can continue to pay local employees and suppliers in the event money is unavailable.”
Aye. How long before the local entrepreneur is the one who ‘got ahead’ enough to afford an entire bottle of cooking oil that can then on-sold for a profit in ‘single meal worth’ polythene sachets?
Okay. Perhaps quite some way off.
But did you notice when they began selling 400g blocks of butter in competition with the 500g blocks at the ‘old’ 500g price? Or those 750g blocks of cheese that were all of a sudden available beside the 1 kg blocks at a price comparable with the ‘old’ 1 kg price? Or what about the air pumped into chocolate bars that kept the size and price (but not the weight) the same? Or how about charity shops rebranding as retail outlets?
There was only one explanation: equating marginal cost and marginal revenue couldn’t be profit-maximizing behavior.
No, it’s not. It’s actually profit minimising behaviour. It’s the one I like to twit neo-classical economists with because it uses their own theory to prove that profit is a dead weight loss.
As Steve Keen says in his book, profit maximising firms (both monopoly and competition) will produce the same output. This leaves the firm in a competitive market with increased market share as the only option to increase profit and they can only do that if they lower the selling price which must lower profits for that firm. As each competitive firm will be doing the same thing the end result must, logically, be where marginal cost and marginal revenue are equal resulting in both the maximum output and minimum profit – in theory.
At that point the firm should be able to maintain itself (income = costs) and the people working there but it won’t be paying out dividends to shareholders. Thus cost cutting usually comes in so that profitability and dividends can be returned resulting, most likely, in the redundancies of workers and a decline in product going to market pushing prices and profits back up again. Unfortunately, the cost cutting has also resulted in a decrease in market demand from the redundancies. After that, it gets complicated…
There are two things that I take from this:
1.) For numerous sectors a well regulated and government owned monopoly will be the better option than competition as competition adds it’s own costs (unnecessary duplication and an even more convoluted regulatory system for starters) that society can do without. This seems especially true of natural monopolies such as telecommunications and power.
2.) Competition isn’t there to lower prices as the neo-classicals believe but to lower profits but it doesn’t work because A) we don’t have a perfectly competitive market B) corruption becomes an accepted means to maintain profits (i.e. collusion/cartel behaviour and cronyism) C) speculation for easy and high profits in the financial system replaces actually making stuff (especially in places where the market is saturated) and D) Firms are trying to maximise profit and not minimise it.
This all results in a few mega corporations ruling the market with small companies being kept out and the dead weight loss of profit still hurting everybody.
in another time they might have been called robber barons.
now they are just robbers.
stealing from ALL THE PEOPLE TO Pay for heka paratai and john banks juvenile fantasies of omnipotence.
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Nothing more from me today - I'm off to Wellington, to participate in the city's annual roleplaying convention (which has also eaten my time for the whole week, limiting blogging despite there being interesting things happening). Normal bloggage will resume Tuesday. ...
The Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weaponscame into force today, making the development, possession, use or threat of use of nuclear weapons illegal in international law. Every nuclear-armed state is now a criminal regime. The corporations and scientists who design, build and maintain their illegal weapons are now ...
"Come The Revolution!" The key objective of Bernard Hickey’s revolutionary solution to the housing crisis is a 50 percent reduction in the price of the average family home. This will be achieved by the introduction of Capital Gains, Land, and Wealth taxes, and by the opening up of currently RMA-protected ...
by Daphna Whitmore Twitter and Facebook shutting down Trump’s accounts after his supporters stormed Capitol Hill is old news now but the debates continue over whether the actions against Trump are a good thing or not. Those in favour of banning Trump say Twitter and Facebook are private companies and ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections Democrats now control the White House, Senate, and House of Representatives for the first time in a decade, albeit with razor thin Congressional majorities. The last time, in the 111th Congress (2009-2011), House Democrats passed a carbon cap and trade bill, but it died ...
Session thirty-three was highly abbreviated, via having to move house in a short space of time. Oh well. The party decided to ignore the tree-monster and continue the attack on the Giant Troll. Tarsin – flying on a giant summoned bat – dumped some high-grade oil over the ...
Last night I stayed up till 3am just to see then-President Donald Trump leave the White House, get on a plane, and fly off to Florida, hopefully never to return. And when I woke up this morning, America was different. Not perfect, because it never was. Probably not even good, ...
Watching today’s inauguration of Joe Biden as the United States’ 46th president, there’s not a lot in common with the inauguration of Donald Trump just four destructive years ago. Where Trump warned of carnage, Biden dared to hope for unity and decency. But the one place they converge is that ...
Dan FalkBritons who switched on their TVs to “Good Morning Britain” on the morning of Sept. 15, 2020, were greeted by news not from our own troubled world, but from neighboring Venus. Piers Morgan, one of the hosts, was talking about a major science story that had surfaced the ...
Sara LutermanGrowing up autistic in a non-autistic world can be very isolating. We are often strange and out of sync with peers, despite our best efforts. Autistic adults have, until very recently, been largely absent from media and the public sphere. Finding role models is difficult. Finding useful advice ...
Doug JohnsonThe alien-like blooms and putrid stench of Amorphophallus titanum, better known as the corpse flower, draw big crowds and media coverage to botanical gardens each year. In 2015, for instance, around 75,000 people visited the Chicago Botanic Garden to see one of their corpse flowers bloom. More than ...
Getting to Browser Tab Zero so I can reboot the computer is awfully hard when the one open tab is a Table of Contents for the Journal of Environmental Economics and Management, and every issue has more stuff I want to read. A few highlights: Gugler et al demonstrating ...
Michael Cowling, CQUniversity AustraliaWe’ve probably all been there. We buy some new smart gadget and when we plug it in for the first time it requires an update to work. So we end up spending hours downloading and updating before we can even play with our new toy. But ...
Timothy Ford, University of Massachusetts Lowell and Charles M. Schweik, University of Massachusetts AmherstTo mitigate health inequities and promote social justice, coronavirus vaccines need to get to underserved populations and hard-to-reach communities. There are few places in the U.S. that are unreachable by road, but other factors – many ...
Israel chose to pay a bit over the odds for the Pfizer vaccine to get earlier access. Here’s The Times of Israel from 16 November. American government will be charged $39 for each two-shot dose, and the European bloc even less, but Jerusalem said to agree to pay $56. Israel ...
Orla is a gender critical Marxist in Ireland. She gave a presentation on 15 January 2021 on the connection between postmodern/transgender identity politics and the current attacks on democratic and free speech rights. Orla has been active previously in the Irish Socialist Workers Party and the People Before Profit electoral ...
. . America: The Empire Strikes Back (at itself) Further to my comments in the first part of 2020: The History That Was, the following should be considered regarding the current state of the US. They most likely will be by future historians pondering the critical decades of ...
Nathaniel ScharpingIn March, as the Covid-19 pandemic began to shut down major cities in the U.S., researchers were thinking about blood. In particular, they were worried about the U.S. blood supply — the millions of donations every year that help keep hospital patients alive when they need a transfusion. ...
Sarah L Caddy, University of CambridgeVaccines are a marvel of medicine. Few interventions can claim to have saved as many lives. But it may surprise you to know that not all vaccines provide the same level of protection. Some vaccines stop you getting symptomatic disease, but others stop you ...
Back in 2016, the Portuguese government announced plans to stop burning coal by 2030. But progress has come much quicker, and they're now scheduled to close their last coal plant by the end of this year: The Sines coal plant in Portugal went offline at midnight yesterday evening (14 ...
The Sincerest Form Of Flattery: As anybody with the intestinal fortitude to brave the commentary threads of local news-sites, large and small, will attest, the number of Trump-supporting New Zealanders is really quite astounding. IT’S SO DIFFICULT to resist the temptation to be smug. From the distant perspective of New Zealand, ...
RNZ reports on continued arbitrariness on decisions at the border. British comedian Russell Howard is about to tour New Zealand and other acts allowed in through managed isolation this summer include drag queen RuPaul and musicians at Northern Bass in Mangawhai and the Bay Dreams festival. The vice-president of the ...
As families around the world mourn more than two million people dead from Covid-19, the Plan B academics and their PR industry collaborator continue to argue that the New Zealand government should stop focusing on our managed isolation and quarantine system and instead protect the elderly so that they can ...
A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, Jan 10, 2021 through Sat, Jan 16, 2021Editor's ChoiceNASA says 2020 tied for hottest year on record — here’s what you can do to helpPhoto by Michael Held on Unsplash ...
Health authorities in Norway are reporting some concerns about deaths in frail elderly after receiving their COVID-19 vaccine. Is this causally related to the vaccine? Probably not but here are the things to consider. According to the news there have been 23 deaths in Norway shortly after vaccine administration and ...
Happy New Year! No, experts are not concerned that “…one of New Zealand’s COIVD-1( vaccines will fail to protect the country” Here is why. But first I wish to issue an expletive about this journalism (First in Australia and then in NZ). It exhibits utter failure to actually truly consult ...
All nations have shadows; some acknowledge them. For others they shape their image in uncomfortable ways.The staunch Labour supporter was in despair at what her Rogernomics Government was doing. But she finished ‘at least, we got rid of Muldoon’, a response which tells us that then, and today, one’s views ...
Grigori GuitchountsIn November, Springer Nature, one of the world’s largest publishers of scientific journals, made an attention-grabbing announcement: More than 30 of its most prestigious journals, including the flagship Nature, will now allow authors to pay a fee of US$11,390 to make their papers freely available for anyone to read ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Gary Yohe, Henry Jacoby, Richard Richels, and Benjamin Santer Imagine a major climate change law passing the U.S. Congress unanimously? Don’t bother. It turns out that you don’t need to imagine it. Get this: The Global Change Research Act of 1990 was passed ...
“They’re here already! You’re next! You’re next! You’re next!”WHO CAN FORGET the penultimate scene of the 1956 movie classic, Invasion of the Body Snatchers? The wild-eyed doctor, stumbling down the highway, trying desperately to warn his fellow citizens: “They’re here already! You’re next! You’re next! You’re next!”Ostensibly science-fiction, the movie ...
TheOneRing.Net has got its paws on the official synopsis of the upcoming Amazon Tolkien TV series. It’s a development that brings to mind the line about Sauron deliberately releasing Gollum from the dungeons of Barad-dûr. Amazon knew exactly what they were doing here, in terms of drumming up publicity: ...
Since Dwight Eisenhower’s inauguration in 1953, US presidents have joined an informal club intended to provide support - and occasionally rivalry - between those few who have been ‘leaders of the free world’. Donald Trump, elected on a promise to ‘drain the swamp’ and a constant mocker of his predecessors, ...
For over a decade commentators have noted the rise of a new brand of explicitly ideological politics throughout the world. By this they usually refer to the re-emergence of national populism and avowedly illiberal approaches to governance throughout the “advanced” democratic community, but they also extend the thought to the ...
The US House of Representatives has just impeached Donald Trump, giving him the dubious honour of being the only US President to be impeached twice. Ten Republicans voted for impeachement, making it the most bipartisan impeachment ever. The question now is whether the Senate will rise to the occasion, and ...
Zero emission buses, cleaner cars and environmentally-friendly biofuels will soon be hitting New Zealand’s roads, as the Government delivers on its election promise to make our transport network more sustainable. ...
The Green Party is already delivering on its commitment for cleaner, climate-friendly transport through our Cooperation Agreement with the Government. ...
A growing public housing waiting list and continued increase of house prices must be urgently addressed by Government, Green Party Co-leader Marama Davidson said today. ...
Prudence Steven QC, barrister of Christchurch has been appointed as an Environment Judge and District Court Judge to serve in Christchurch, Attorney-General David Parker announced today. Ms Steven has been a barrister sole since 2008, practising in resource management and local government / public law. She was appointed a Queen’s ...
The Government is delivering on its first tranche of election promises to take action on climate change with a raft of measures that will help meet New Zealand’s 2050 carbon neutral target, create new jobs and boost innovation. “This will be an ongoing area of action but we are moving ...
The Government is investing up to $10 million to support 30 of the country’s top early-career researchers to develop their research skills. “The pandemic has had widespread impacts across the science system, including the research workforce. After completing their PhD, researchers often travel overseas to gain experience but in the ...
A Waitomo-based Jobs for Nature project will keep up to ten people employed in the village as the tourism sector recovers post Covid-19 Conservation Minister Kiri Allan says. “This $500,000 project will save ten local jobs by deploying workers from Discover Waitomo into nature-based jobs. They will be undertaking local ...
Minister for Climate Change, James Shaw spoke yesterday with President Biden’s Special Presidential Envoy for Climate John Kerry. “I was delighted to have the opportunity to speak with Mr. Kerry this morning about the urgency with which our governments must confront the climate emergency. I am grateful to him and ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Hon Nanaia Mahuta today announced three diplomatic appointments: Alana Hudson as Ambassador to Poland John Riley as Consul-General to Hong Kong Stephen Wong as Consul-General to Shanghai Poland “New Zealand’s relationship with Poland is built on enduring personal, economic and historical connections. Poland is also an important ...
Work begins today at Wainuiomata High School to ensure buildings and teaching spaces are fit for purpose, Education Minister Chris Hipkins says. The Minister joined principal Janette Melrose and board chair Lynda Koia to kick off demolition for the project, which is worth close to $40 million, as the site ...
A skilled and experienced group of people have been named as the newly established Oranga Tamariki Ministerial Advisory Board by Children’s Minister Kelvin Davis today. The Board will provide independent advice and assurance to the Minister for Children across three key areas of Oranga Tamariki: relationships with families, whānau, and ...
The green light for New Zealand’s first COVID-19 vaccine could be granted in just over a week, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said today. “We’re making swift progress towards vaccinating New Zealanders against the virus, but we’re also absolutely committed to ensuring the vaccines are safe and effective,” Jacinda Ardern said. ...
The Minister for ACC is pleased to announce the appointment of three new members to join the Board of ACC on 1 February 2021. “All three bring diverse skills and experience to provide strong governance oversight to lead the direction of ACC” said Hon Carmel Sepuloni. Bella Takiari-Brame from Hamilton ...
The Government is investing $9 million to upgrade a significant community facility in Invercargill, creating economic stimulus and jobs, Infrastructure Minister Grant Robertson and Te Tai Tonga MP Rino Tirikatene have announced. The grant for Waihōpai Rūnaka Inc to make improvements to Murihiku Marae comes from the $3 billion set ...
[Opening comments, welcome and thank you to Auckland University etc] It is a great pleasure to be here this afternoon to celebrate such an historic occasion - the entry into force of the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons. This is a moment many feared would never come, but ...
The Government is providing $3 million in one-off seed funding to help disabled people around New Zealand stay connected and access support in their communities, Minister for Disability Issues, Carmel Sepuloni announced today. The funding will allow disability service providers to develop digital and community-based solutions over the next two ...
Border workers in quarantine facilities will be offered voluntary daily COVID-19 saliva tests in addition to their regular weekly testing, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. This additional option will be rolled out at the Jet Park Quarantine facility in Auckland starting on Monday 25 January, and then to ...
The next steps in the Government’s ambitious firearms reform programme to include a three-month buy-back have been announced by Police Minister Poto Williams today. “The last buy-back and amnesty was unprecedented for New Zealand and was successful in collecting 60,297 firearms, modifying a further 5,630 firearms, and collecting 299,837 prohibited ...
Upscaling work already underway to restore two iconic ecosystems will deliver jobs and a lasting legacy, Conservation Minister Kiri Allan says. “The Jobs for Nature programme provides $1.25 billion over four years to offer employment opportunities for people whose livelihoods have been impacted by the COVID-19 recession. “Two new projects ...
The Government has released its Public Housing Plan 2021-2024 which outlines the intention of where 8,000 additional public and transitional housing places announced in Budget 2020, will go. “The Government is committed to continuing its public house build programme at pace and scale. The extra 8,000 homes – 6000 public ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has congratulated President Joe Biden on his inauguration as the 46th President of the United States of America. “I look forward to building a close relationship with President Biden and working with him on issues that matter to both our countries,” Jacinda Ardern said. “New Zealand ...
A major investment to tackle wilding pines in Mt Richmond will create jobs and help protect the area’s unique ecosystems, Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor says. The Mt Richmond Forest Park has unique ecosystems developed on mineral-rich geology, including taonga plant species found nowhere else in the country. “These special plant ...
To further protect New Zealand from COVID-19, the Government is extending pre-departure testing to all passengers to New Zealand except from Australia, Antarctica and most Pacific Islands, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “The change will come into force for all flights arriving in New Zealand after 11:59pm (NZT) on Monday ...
Bay Conservation Cadets launched with first intake Supported with $3.5 million grant Part of $1.245b Jobs for Nature programme to accelerate recover from Covid Cadets will learn skills to protect and enhance environment Environment Minister David Parker today welcomed the first intake of cadets at the launch of the Bay ...
The Prime Minister of New Zealand Jacinda Ardern and the Prime Minister of the Cook Islands Mark Brown have announced passengers from the Cook Islands can resume quarantine-free travel into New Zealand from 21 January, enabling access to essential services such as health. “Following confirmation of the Cook Islands’ COVID ...
Jobs for Nature funding is being made available to conservation groups and landowners to employ staff and contractors in a move aimed at boosting local biodiversity-focused projects, Conservation Minister Kiritapu Allan has announced. It is estimated some 400-plus jobs will be created with employment opportunities in ecology, restoration, trapping, ...
The Government has approved an exception class for 1000 international tertiary students, degree level and above, who began their study in New Zealand but were caught offshore when border restrictions began. The exception will allow students to return to New Zealand in stages from April 2021. “Our top priority continues ...
Today’s deal between Meridian and Rio Tinto for the Tiwai smelter to remain open another four years provides time for a managed transition for Southland. “The deal provides welcome certainty to the Southland community by protecting jobs and incomes as the region plans for the future. The Government is committed ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has appointed Anna Curzon to the APEC Business Advisory Council (ABAC). The leader of each APEC economy appoints three private sector representatives to ABAC. ABAC provides advice to leaders annually on business priorities. “ABAC helps ensure that APEC’s work programme is informed by business community perspectives ...
The Government’s prudent fiscal management and strong policy programme in the face of the COVID-19 global pandemic have been acknowledged by the credit rating agency Fitch. Fitch has today affirmed New Zealand’s local currency rating at AA+ with a stable outlook and foreign currency rating at AA with a positive ...
The Government is putting in place a suite of additional actions to protect New Zealand from COVID-19, including new emerging variants, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “Given the high rates of infection in many countries and evidence of the global spread of more transmissible variants, it’s clear that ...
$36 million of Government funding alongside councils and others for 19 projects Investment will clean up and protect waterways and create local jobs Boots on the ground expected in Q2 of 2021 Funding part of the Jobs for Nature policy package A package of 19 projects will help clean up ...
By Adi Briantika in Jakarta A group of Papuan students in front of the House of Representatives (DPR) building in Jakarta, who were planning to hold a protest action opposing the extension of Papuan Special Autonomy (Otsus), have been arrested and taken to the Metro Jaya regional police headquarters. “Around ...
By RNZ News The two new cases of covid-19 confirmed yesterday in New Zealand are the South African variant and initial results show they are connected to the Northland case at the Pullman Hotel. This morning the Director-General of Health, Dr Ashley Bloomfield, confirmed to Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Overhype can be a dead giveaway of under-confidence. When Anthony Albanese on Thursday compared his situation to that of Joe Biden, it sounded rather desperate. Some journalists, he said, had predicted a certain Trump win. ...
The New Zealand public sector and judiciary has again been ranked the least corrupt in the world. The 2020 Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) released today by global anti-corruption organization Transparency International ranks New Zealand first equal ...
New Zealand is again ranked first equal with Denmark in the Transparency International annual index of perceived levels of public sector corruption. Chief Ombudsman Peter Boshier has welcomed New Zealand’s position in the 2020 index. He says New Zealand’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jessica Kaufman, Research Fellow, Vaccine Uptake Group, Murdoch Children’s Research Institute The federal government’s A$23.9 million COVID-19 vaccination information campaign, launchedyesterday, aims to reassure the public about vaccine safety and effectiveness. It will also provide information about the vaccine rollout. We’ve ...
Business is Boring is a weekly podcast series presented by The Spinoff in association with Callaghan Innovation. Host Simon Pound speaks with innovators and commentators focused on the future of New Zealand. This week he’s joined by Hongi Luo, brand director at TikTok.In terms of cultural reach and impact, the ...
After Covid devastated its 2020, Basement Theatre comes roaring into 2021 with its Summer Season. Here’s the rundown of shows in-store, with some comments from programmer Nisha Madhan.Pre-FringeLust IslandWhen’s it on: February 2-6, 8pmWho’s involved: The women of improv troupe Hearthrobs (McKenzie’s Daughters, Salem Bitch Trials), including Brynley Stent, Alice ...
The whānau of Te Ahikaiata Turei supported by Māori and non-Māori staff at Unitec will take back a portrait of the Tūhoe leader who led the establishment of Te Noho Kotahitanga Marae and the values that brought the institute back from the brink of ...
A poll across the Early Childhood Education community found 93% in favour of pausing the ‘lunchbox rules’, or the Ministry of Education’s new Food Safety/choking changes to the Licensing Criteria, which came into effect on 25 January. “The message ...
Cycling advocates are calling for the transformation of urban transport, as New Zealand races to cut carbon. The Climate Change Commission will release its initial advice on Sunday 31 January. “Bikes and e-bikes are perfect for many local trips, ...
Three Ministers, led by the PM, joined in chorus today to warble about a bunch of measures aimed at helping to meet New Zealand’s 2050 carbon neutral target, create new jobs and boost innovation. Mind you, the measures mentioned seem to be more matters of decisions yet to be made ...
Michelle Kidd defines her role at Auckland’s specialist family violence court as te kaiwhakatere – the navigator. It’s a one-of-a-kind job, helping guide defendants through the court system. And there’s no one better suited to it than Whaea Michelle.First published November 24, 2020.Whaea Michelle is part of Frame, a series of short ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sallie Yea, Associate professor & Principal Research Fellow, La Trobe University Each year, thousands of men and boys labour under extremely exploitative conditions on commercial fishing vessels owned by Taiwanese, Chinese and South Korean companies. The Taiwanese fleet, which operates in all ...
Children’s Minister Kelvin Davis believes the Crown should maintain responsibility for the care and protection of at-risk and vulnerable children, regardless of their race. Moreover, he is confident his all-Maori team of advisers will not be taking race into account as they help to improve Oranga Tamariki’s care and protection of ...
It’s easy to sacrifice John Banks. It’s a lot harder for brands, sports organisations and government to truly stop funding racism. Are they willing to try?Yesterday John Banks, the former Auckland mayor and MP, became subject to one of the fastest firings in media history when audio covering his approving ...
A community is outraged after Auckland Council granted consent for a row of trees planted by local kids to be removed along a revitalised waterway in South Auckland, reports Justin Latif. An Auckland Council decision to give contractors the all-clear to chop down 12 mānuka and kānuka trees shading Māngere’s Tararata ...
Te Pūtahitanga o Te Waipounamu hopes that the recent changes to Oranga Tamariki leadership present an opportunity for a long overdue paradigm shift that will place whānau at the heart of the child welfare sector. Pouārahi Helen Leahy says that ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Rice, Professor of Management, University of New England Elon Musk is now the world’s richest person, edging out previous title holder Amazon’s Jeff Bezos. His rocketing fortune is due to the booming share price of Tesla, the maker of electric vehicles ...
There are now three returnees who contracted the virus in the Auckland isolation facility then left into the community while positive. These are some of the questions that need to be resolved. At 10.20pm last night the Ministry of Health confirmed that the two cases they’d been treating as probable ...
Having a hard time remembering to scan in on the NZ Covid Tracer app when you’re out and about? Get this song stuck in your head and you’ll never forget again.Learn the lyrics:Aotearoa, it’s time to get scanning!I mean if you think about it, it never really wasn’t time we ...
We conclude our week-long examination of New Zealand writer Roderick Finlayson with a review of his stories by John Newton Roger Hickin’s Cold Hub Press is one of the small miracles of contemporary New Zealand publishing. Over the last decade, on what can only be a shoe-string budget, the ...
Thursday 28th January, AUCKLAND: Drive Electric, the not-for-profit with one mission – making electric vehicle uptake in New Zealand mainstream, welcomes the announcement by the Government today as a sign of what’s to come through 2021, and we are confident ...
The Government announced today key policy decisions on the proposed clean car policies. The MIA has stated on many occasions that we support well thought out and constructive policies that will lead to an increased rate in the reduction of CO2 emissions from ...
Get wild, get cultured, get fed and then get to bed: the essential guide to a perfect few days in the southern city. There’s one thing that preoccupies the staff of The Spinoff almost as much as arranging popular food items into arbitrary lists, and that’s Dunedin. A quite remarkable ...
John Banks’ racist exchange with a Magic Talk listener on Tuesday was the latest in nearly 50 years of talkback controversies. Donna Chisholm has the receipts.John Banks axed over Māori ‘stone age culture’ comments on Magic Talk1972: On Radio I, sports talkback host Tim Bickerstaff launches a “Punch a Pom ...
*This article first appeared on RNZ and is republished with permission.Two new community Covid-19 cases have been identified as the more infectious South African variant, but Auckland Mayor Phil Goff sayit would be "premature to go into lockdown now". The two new cases of Covid-19 identified in the ...
Today, for the second time in two months Dunedin climate protectors have locked themselves to the railway tracks outside the Dunedin Railway station to stop the KiwiRail coal train from Bathurst Resources’ Takitimu mine in Southland to Fonterra’s ...
KiwiRail STOP Hauling COAL Today, for the second time in two months Dunedin climate protectors have locked themselves to the railway tracks outside the Dunedin Railway station to stop the KiwiRail coal train from Bathurst Resources’ Takitimu mine ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adam Dunn, Associate professor, University of Sydney The government is rolling out a new public information campaign this week to reassure the public about the safety of COVID-19 vaccines, which one expert has said “couldn’t be more crucial” to people actually getting ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Therese O’Sullivan, Associate Professor, Edith Cowan University The COVID vaccine rollout has placed the issue of vaccination firmly in the spotlight. A successful rollout will depend on a variety of factors, one of which is vaccine acceptance. One potential hurdle to vaccine ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Bernard Walker, Associate Professor in Organisations and Leadership, University of Canterbury Kiwis know what it’s like when life throws curveballs. We’ve had major quakes, floods, fires, an eruption, a terrorist attack and now a pandemic. In those situations, it’s the ability to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Irwin, Emeritus professor, Murdoch University While we continue to be occupied with the COVID pandemic, another life-threatening disease has emerged in northern Australia, one that’s cause for considerable alarm for the millions of dog owners around the country. This disease — ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Cath Ferguson, Academic, Edith Cowan University Almost half of Australian adults struggle with reading. Similar levels of struggling readers are reported in the United Kingdom and United States. This does not mean all struggling readers are illiterate. It means they often struggle ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Abbas Shieh, Assistant Professor of Urban Planning and Design, Islamic Azad University The industrial revolution transformed cities, resulting in places of residence and work becoming more distant than ever before. This spatial segregation is still largely embedded in the design of our ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ari Mattes, Lecturer in Communications and Media, University of Notre Dame Australia Review: Occupation: Rainfall, written and directed by Luke Sparke Historically, when a sequel to a film was greenlit, you could rest assured this was because the first film made a ...
Welcome to The Spinoff’s live updates for January 28, keeping you up to date with the latest local and international news. Reach me on stewart@thespinoff.co.nzOur members make The Spinoff happen! Every dollar contributed directly funds our editorial team – click here to learn more about how you can support us ...
Good morning and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Tourism suffers in the shadow of Covid-19, two new positive cases in Auckland confirmed, and National will contest the Māori electorates.The front page of the January 4 Greymouth Star carried grim tidings for several of the glacier towns on the ...
*This article first appeared on RNZ and is republished with permission. Two people who left managed isolation on January 15 have been confirmed as positive Covid-19 cases, with the Ministry of Health urging anyone who visited the same locations during the same time period as the infected pair in Auckland to ...
The watchlist of 'offensive or unreasonable' babies' names is to be reviewed, to include more names from other languages. Generations of the Īhaka family have played a meaningful role in bringing Te Reo and stories of Māori to our wider community. Archdeacon Sir Kīngi Matutaera Īhaka (Te Aupōuri, 1921-93) was known as the orator of ...
After Morocco’s flagrant violation of the terms of the ceasefire in Western Sahara on Friday 13 November 2020 war broke out between the two sides. In the midst of this war Tauranga based Ballance Agri-Nutrients has decided to carry on importing phosphate ...
Nicholas Agar suggests that our handling of the pandemic could be partly down to our distinctive Treaty of Waitangi relationship, and Māori ideas that enabled us to make it through without tens of thousands of deaths A mission for universities in the coming decade will be a deep understanding of the meaning ...
A young girl who once sent $5 to an embattled America's Cup team is now among the women on the water helping run the contest for the Auld Mug. As an eager and generous nine-year-old, Melanie Roberts posted a letter, with a $5 note, to OneAustralia’s America’s Cup team. It was 1995, ...
At 5am today, cock’s crow, the embargo lifted on the Ockham New Zealand Book Awards longlist. Here are the books in the race, followed by thoughts from poetry editor Chris Tse and books editor Catherine Woulfe. A shortlist of four books in each category will be announced March 3, with ...
Ignoring those QR codes when you drop into the supermarket? Can’t be bothered when you grab a coffee? The people serving you notice, and you’re freaking them out.So far, New Zealanders’ use of the Covid-19 Tracer app has been notably woeful. Food industry workers who’ve watched streams of customers walk ...
Steve Braunias reveals the longlist of the 2021 Ockham New Zealand book awards Apart from one or two unfortunate omissions which cast doubt on the sanity and intellectual acumen of judges, especially the nobodies who judged this year's non-fiction, the longlist for the 2021 Ockham New Zealand book awards is ...
By Lulu Mark in Port Moresby Papua New Guinea’s biggest hospital is straining to provide medical services to the growing population of the capital Port Moresby – with an estimated growth rate of 3 percent annually, a medical executive says. Port Moresby General Hospital chief executive officer Dr Paki Molumi ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Nationals who attend Thursday’s memorial service in Tweed Heads for Doug Anthony, who died last month aged 90, may muse on the contrast between the state of their party when he led it and now. ...
Returning to quarantine-free travel in 2021 doesn't just need a vaccine, but a way to check whether arriving passengers are actually immune to the virus. A smart Kiwi science start-up is working with a global biometrics giant to make that happen. A deal signed between Kiwi research and development company Orbis Diagnostics, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Caitlyn Forster, PhD Candidate, School of Life and Environmental Sciences, University of Sydney This summer’s wetter conditions have created great conditions for flowering plants. Flowers provide sweet nectar and protein-rich pollen, attracting many insects, including bees. Commercial honey bees are also thriving: ...
Lotto scratchie tickets featuring the pop band Six60 are being withdrawn after a public backlash. In a statement, Lotto NZ said there had been a mutual decision made with the band to remove the tickets from sale following the negative feedback, and it offered an apology. The band faced criticism, both ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Russell Dean Christopher Bicknell, Post-doctoral researcher in Palaeobiology , University of New England Shell-crushing predation was already in full swing half a billion years ago, as our new research published in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B reveals. A hyena devouring ...
Vodafone has suspended advertising on the radio station amid calls for talkback host John Banks to be taken off air after yet another racist outburst. Alex Braae reports. In an alarming segment of talkback radio, former Auckland mayor John Banks endorsed the views of a caller who described Māori as a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Welch, Senior Lecturer, University of Auckland When a COVID-19 case was found in Northland last Sunday, Aotearoa’s second-longest period with no detected community case came to an end. ESR scientists worked late into Sunday night to obtain a whole genome sequence ...
He has the perfect moustache, an exceptional mullet, and he uses terms like ‘face hole’ on national TV. Who or what is Dr Joel Rindelaub?I was drawn in by the moustache, but it was the mullet that really kept me there. Watching TVNZ’s Breakfast yesterday morning I was fixated. Often, ...
We’ll never be royals with nearly a quarter of declined baby names featuring “Royal” in some form or another. Te Tari Taiwhenua Department of Internal Affairs has released the list of names declined in 2020 by the Registrar-General of Births, Deaths and ...
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OK so yesterday showed Key at his Crosby Textor PR directed best.
He had to delay the sale of the power company shares. Rio Tinto’s belligerent money grabbing stance made a delay inevitable. The threat to the electricity wholesale market was far too high.
So did Key acknowledge this? No he blamed Maaaree. It was all their fault.
He is entering into consultation with Iwi to discuss an option the Government will never support so its chances at the inevitable court action will be increased.
And he then sowed confusion by bringing forward an announcement that kiwi soldiers were coming home early from Afghanistan.
He is such a consummate politician. And such an awful leader. New Zealand should be ashamed …
+1
Can i ask, does anyone know which seat cameron brewer is being lined up for national at the next election? He seems to have quite a pr team nehind him, and he has jumped on the greedy maori bandwagon today, the timing is very very interesting?
I thought he was being lined up to go against Brown at next years local body elections so they can plunder akl’s assets, he’s always tub thumping on rates, travel etc etc.
Banksy f’d that up good and proper last time so it’s time for Blinky jnr.
CB will stay in local politics for the time being, as his usefullness is seen to be there, and the timing of the comments deliberate.
I would say that as long as good people are prepared to sit back and wait, hoping that perhaps the local/national political system will begin to represent them, things will continue to get worse.
There are some half decent reps inside AKL Council, but CB is most certainly not one them!
I would see the mayoral attack coming from CB/CF direction, as they want AKL assets, and they want them badly!
David Clark makes a good argument in support of his bill to increase the minimum wage: The PM’s cleaner deserves more
Thanks for the link. Yes, it covers a lot of important points, including this:
So it seems the cronyist links between Westpac and the NAct government continue to register at the edges of the media radar, with a failure for the government to fulfill its promise of opening its banking contract (currently with Westpac) for tender:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/7606571/No-tender-yet-for-Government-banking-contract
Meanwhile, ex-NAct minister Simon Power, now with Westpac, is ensuring his current employer, Westpac, has a significant presence in Christchurch:
http://www.3news.co.nz/Westpac-ready-for-return-to-Christchurch-CBD/tabid/421/articleID/263293/Default.aspx
And more importantly – why is no one asking the question as to why the Government opts to bank with a foreign owned bank as opposed to using the bank that it conveniently happens to OWN?
Notwithstanding the fact that it would also provide additional capital reserves that apparently Kiwibank needs…
Whilst KiwiBank is doing a good job it is totally under capitalised.
It regularly borrows money from NZ Post (taxpayer) from inception to prop up its finanncial structure.
The Reserve Bank controls ALL Banks in New Zealand with secure financial limits.
It would take the total partial sale assets of a couple of SOE’s to pay back what it owes and to be lodged to set it up competively.
Could be done.
KiwiBank only needs a $75M capital injection to bring it completely up to speed.
CV
Current spread possibly but we are talking about going for Banker to the Government of New Zealand, not continuing in its current 5% and a bit market share.
Ahh I see.
‘concerned the cost of tendering the contract.’ yeah right Blagger Bill.
They burn piles of dosh on consultants and ticket clippers on the now stalled MOMathon, intended share giveaways, RONS with little or negative payback, consulting culture in and around treasury etc etc etc.
The arrogance continues to be world class from this gov’t but they’re consistent here with another broken promise.
Government banking should be returned to the Reserve Bank IMO.
The Reserve Bank isn’t set up as a retail bank so Kiwi Bank would have to do it.
But the Reserve Bank could take back its right as the sole creator of interest-free, debt-free money into our economy.
More lies and anit-democratic practices by our government, exposed:
http://www.labour.org.nz/news/government-mps-mislead-tvnz7%E2%80%99s-supporters
The end of TVNZ7 was all about ensuring that our TV channels promoted stupidity.
http://tumeke.blogspot.co.nz/2012/09/so-tvnz-could-have-saved-tvnz7-then.html
VITAMIN C CAN CURE: So why does Auckland Hospital REFUSE to give it to you?
________________________________________________________________________________
Man saved by Vitamin C to lead protest at Auckland Hospital
Allan Smith, whose life was saved in 2009 by intravenous Vitamin C at Auckland Hospital, will be protesting from 12-2 pm on September 15 … at Auckland Hospital – for turning its back on this life saving treatment.
Smith was featured on two segments on 60 Minutes in 2010.
60 Minutes detailed his surprising story of near fatal illness with Swine Flu and pneumonia, and the willingness of Auckland Hospital to “pull the plug” on him – kill him – rather than give him Vitamin C.
Vitamin C, especially in high doses, has been a well-known and scientifically accepted anti-viral for many years, andyet Auckland hospital initially refused to administer it,falsely claiming that they had “tried everything” to no avail.
When the hospital, under pressure from the family, finally andRELUCTANTLY administered the vitamin C, Smith began to show a dramatic improvement within days.
Within a few short weeks he was well again.
Unfortunately, Auckland Hospital and many other NZ hospitals seem to have learned nothing from the experience and to this day they actually REFUSE to administer vitamin C to patients presenting with acute viral illnesses such as flu.
They persistently and falsely claim that there is “no evidence” for the efficacy of vitamin C, but there is, indeed, massive amounts of evidence for it – even in their “peer reviewed” medical literature.
Vitamin C is even a registered medicine in New Zealand.
And yet they initially refused to give it to Allan Smith and they continue to refuse to give it to other people who are ill with viral (or bacterial) illnesses.
And some people reportedly have died as a result of this refusal to even try it!
Were it not for the persistence of Smith’s family, he would have died, too.
Whatever the reason for this intransigence in the face of the obvious successes of Vitamin C, the people of New Zealand deserve to have a medical system that is truly evidence-based, and is focussed entirely on the best recovery strategies available – rather than one that refuses to acknowledge its mistakes.
Across the board, mistakes such as this one are costing thousands of lives, in that the Medical System itself is now reliably VITAMIN C CAN CURE considered to be the third leading cause of death in New Zealand.
Why, we ask, is it so difficult for Auckland Hospital to learn from the case of Allan Smith? Why is so hard to admit that a mistake was made? … and then change a ridiculous policy that is costing lives and public health.
Contact: Allan Smith
Tel 07 873 7572
027-472-2975
________________________________________________________________________________
I’ll be there – outside Auckland Hospital from 12 noon – 2pm Saturday 15 September 2012.
Who else is coming?
Penny Bright
So you just protest for the sake of protesting now?
errr…………… A bit of a NO-BRAINER I would have thought?
Aren’t hospitals and medical staff supposed to be in the business (as it were 🙂 of SAVING lives?
If Vitamin C can cure – why is Auckland Hospital refusing to give this treatment?
I’ll be protesting outside Auckland Hospital on 15 September 2012 from 12 noon to 2pm because I support this issue.
In my considered opinion, as a ‘veteran’ activist with over 40 years experience – ‘it’s the masses who get off their asses’ – who help bring about change.
Pity a few more people didn’t get off their butts and stand up to be counted, in order to help make a difference?
Cheers!
Penny Bright
“If Vitamin C can cure – why is Auckland Hospital refusing to give this treatment?”
because it has never been proven and only tenuous links have been established. There have been no, to very few, double blind studies done and no real incontrovertible evidence that Vitamin C has any real effect.
So it isn’t a ‘no-brainer’.
This may help the informed debate on Vitamin C?
_________________________________________________________________________
http://www.vitaminccancure.org.nz/
Home
The Vitamin C Can Cure Coalition is is a patient and family support group which has come together to promote the benefits of high dose vitamin C to resolve a variety of life threatening illnesses. We also exist to support patients’ rights to access to this treatment.
Intravenous vitamin C is a registered medicine in New Zealand, yet this medication is currently being refused patients requesting it in New Zealand hospitals. The dangers of such refusal is that it may lead to unnecessary deaths.
Intravenous vitamin C can be a lifesaving treatment when administered in a timely manner and in sufficient doses. Last year New Zealander Allan Smith was critically ill with swine flu and was facing death as his life support was going to be turned off. At his family’s request, Allan Smith was administered high dose intravenous vitamin C and made a full recovery and is alive and well today.
The Allan Smith Story
Allan Smith’s recovery from Swine Flu and Hairy Cell Leukemia was documented on TV3′s 60 Minutes Programme. The story may be viewed at this link on TV3′s website:
http://ondemand.tv3.co.nz/60-Minutes-Living-Proof/tabid/59/articleID/923/Default.aspx
“Some physicians would stand by and see their patient die
rather than use ascorbic acid (vitamin C) because
in their finite minds it exists only as a vitamin”
– Dr. Frederick Robert Klenner
_________________________________________________________________________
Kind regards,
Penny Bright
Evidence is not the plural of anecdote, Penny.
Of course, CODEX, S510, NZ Natural Health Products bill et al, have absolutely nothing to do with it eh!
Its all about the control!
Anecdote that!
Sure. How about “that reminds me of the person who called everything a false-flag operation to the point that the person looked extremely delusional, but then it became evident that they didn’t know what ‘false flag’ actually meant. So beware of randoms on the internet making claims of miracles or conspiracies.”
Hey McFlock how you doing buddy…
Nah, where that went wrong for you was, you assumed I care what the “official definition” of a FF is, when I just use the term for things which smell bad!
You asked me my opinion, I gave it, you didn’t like it and have got your g string in a twist!
Lol
Okay then, it is apparent to me that you are an aardvark thinker. Although I’m not going to be nailed down by TPTB’s “official definition” of those words, but I’ll expect you to know what I mean.
Oh, and your mother was a cucumber.
It may look helpful to you, Penny, but I’m pretty sure if Contrarian responded by linking to a site called “novitaminccan’tcure.com” you might get an idea of why no one else finds it particularly compelling.
A precious first, Contrarian… I agree wholeheartedly with you! 🙂
And more on NAct crony watch – Rebstock now confirmed as ACC chair and leader of its “culture change” – on her record, I can’t see that as being a change for the better:
Also joining Ms Rebstock on the board are financial adviser and Public Trust chairman Trevor Janes, Auckland University School of Medicine head Professor Des Gorman and public and medical law expert Kristy McDonald QC, who have all been appointed for three-year terms.
A fourth new board member has also been identified, but not named, and will start their role in 2013.
The new appointees will join the existing board members Jill Spooner, John Meehan and Jane Huria.
Ms Collins says the new appointments reflect the government’s commitment to rebuilding the public’s trust and confidence in ACC.
She said Ms Rebstock has “demonstrated a commitment to culture change at ACC”.
Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/Rebstock-to-head-ACC-culture-change/tabid/423/articleID/267947/Default.aspx#ixzz25RmiG000
Inevitable that one, she’s a trusted jackboot corporate animal of the Nat’s who jumped off the comcom monopoly train to take these roles up.
There is a problem here, these are 3 year appointments and they are obviously political and ideological. The precedent is not good, should the government change and the direction / ideology change as well (by no means certain with PaganiLab) then they may just have to be ejected.
Translation: Will continue the governments work to destroy the publics confidence in ACC so that private insurers can be brought in.
Considering the sociopathy that she showed in the Welfare Working Group I’m sure she will – it just won’t be a change for the better.
Rebstock the new chair of ACC. Culture change all right – they’ll be kicking even more people off now. Charming.
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/pauling.html
Penny you have been conned by the powerful placebo effect.
The alleged benefits of Vitamin C have been rigorously discredited.
ol’ anal fissure aye
Quite true
Got some FACTS and EVIDENCE to back up what you are saying ‘fisiani’?
Penny Bright
Try this Penny
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/6286215/Vitamin-therapy-fails-to-deliver
That’s not evidence TC. That’s a one man trial. It’s interesting, but it doesn’t count as even being close to evidence of anything other than that the treatment didn’t work for him.
You might have missed this in the article too –
“Debate about high-dose vitamin C had been raging for three decades and it was time proper clinical trials were conducted, he said. ”
(my emphasis). That’s a university researcher saying that there is no evidence either way yet.
btw, I don’t believe that Vit C is a cure for cancer. It might be helpful for some people.
Well, the burden of proof is on Penny not me. But you are right it isn’t evidence because there is no evidence the Vit. C can do what it claims and you can’t prove a negative.
So this is why I queried Penny’s protest. She is protesting that a hospital isn’t dosing people up with Vitamin C when there isn’t any evidence it’d be helpful at all.
Pure BS. You have no idea what you are talking about.
You can demonstrate that something has no clinical effect. Its what ordinary drug tirals do all the time. That is not the case for vitamin C where the evidence remains inconclusive.
Its called the burden of proof. The burden of proof is on Penny who says Vitamin C has clinical effect so it is up to her to provide evidence and she made the original claim and her original claim is a positive assertion.
Interesting topic
Some proof for TheContrarian:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16157892?dopt=Abstract
Also the next link mentions
“The only side effect of high doses of ascorbate is a mild laxative effect. There are no reliable reports of severe ascorbate toxicity, such as acidosis or kidney stones.”
http://www.aids.org/topics/vitamin-c-laboratory-tests-indicate-antiviral-effect/
If Vitamin C has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient, I do question why a hospital wouldn’t at least try it.
Hemachromatosis would have to be tested for I guess.
“If Vitamin C has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient , I do question why a hospital wouldn’t at least try it.”
True, but why not try Vitamin D? Or any other substance for that matter.
“has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient” is not a good way of deciding on treatment and the fear, as pointed out by medical officials is that people won’t seek proper medical treatment thinking instead of trying Vitamin C
My reference to “no likelihood of posing danger to a patient” rests on the logic that if something is believed to help a condition, that it has helped others, yet has not been through a rigorous scientific testing process-then I see no problem with giving it to patients who are requesting it as long as it will do no harm.
I believe medical staff are under an oath to do no harm. I assumed this would be the reason why they are not giving it to patients who request it.
“has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient” is not a good way of deciding on treatment and the fear, as pointed out by medical officials is that people won’t seek proper medical treatment thinking instead of trying Vitamin C
Dude, the man was in a coma in the hospital. Do you really think that there was a fear that he would try vitamin C and not seek medical treatment?
Here’s a good look at the ethics of the situation, including details of what the man went through, and how the family had to get lawyers and the HDC involved in what eventually saved his life. (the link shows an ODT article by Grant Gillett, professor of medical ethics at the University of Otago Bioethics Centre)
http://www.vitaminccancure.org.nz/?p=34
Hospitals don’t “try it” as there is no evidence that it works in a positive manner in vivo in any variety of cancer patient.
In terms of the occasional anecdotal report as per that provided by PB in a patient with the viral infections supportive data in this group is also lacking.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15495002
HS makes a good point.
Medicine is (or at least should be) evidence based – particularly in hospitals. You can’t have people just whacking up any old treatment because it might not do any harm based on anecdotal evidence.
They need to protect themselves as well as the patient and you’d be one death away from a serious issue.
Higherstandard doesn’t make a good point, supplying investigative outcomes to the taking of Vit C orally when the discussion is about high dose intravenous application is not an effective response to what I posted.
“They need to protect themselves aswell…”
Which is precisely why I mentioned that if it does no harm…If it is clear that a patient is not going to be poisoned by the substance, and alongside the information supplied in this thread, that people have responded well to this treatment it appears a shame NOT to try it.
It wasn’t just any old treatment though. It’s a treatment that some physicians use.
Doctor’s prescribe drugs for off label use quite often.
Personally if I was dying, I’d be happy to try any old treatment.
I take your point about hospitals needing to protect themselves. And I agree that drugs should be properly tested But there are also situations where that is not appropriate and this case appears to be one of them.
If you’re taking about high dose iv Vit C as far as I’m aware there is no in vivo data showing it to be efficacious.
I do know there are a couple of GPs supplying it for cancer patients that request it but no one in the hospital system would touch it as it is costly in both time and money for no gain and they have proven interventions to provide.
In response to Weka – would you prefer an intervention that was proven to have a benefit recommended by a specialist prior to “trying anything” ?
Frankly if there was any evidence too support giving it most doctors and PHARMAC would be delighted.
” alongside the information supplied in this thread, that people have responded well to this treatment it appears a shame NOT to try it.”
The information is anecdotal. The scientific evidence, the medical evidence (what scant there is at this time) points to it not being an adequate or proper treatment for any condition neither have any studies proven any efficacy from its application.
In that case any doctor is going to shy away from using anything with any clear studies and research to back it up.
They place to test study such things isn’t by randomly shooting up patients in a hospital because it mightn’t hurt. You need double-blind, studies on a large group with a single methodology and similar doses vs. similar conditions – until such a time that takes place I think it is a good thing our hospitals are not used as laboratories.
here is one such rigorous study which showed Vit C. failed:
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM197909273011303
“In response to Weka – would you prefer an intervention that was proven to have a benefit recommended by a specialist prior to “trying anything” ?”
I’d prefer it if the medical establishment weren’t so closedminded, or captured by bigpharma. We’ve had decades to get over this chasm between mainstream and alternative medicine. Fault is on both sides, but just because some medical doctors say something doesn’t make it so. They have massive gaps in their knowledge and experience.
Here’s an example. Many people mitigate or completely relieve the effects of arthritis by making changes to their diets. Most doctors will say that there is no connection. I think there may now be some acceptance of taking things like glucosamine, but in general the line is that there is no evidence or even any useful theory. And yet many people are treating themselves and getting good results. Yes, that’s anecdotal, but if the people are feeling better, what is the problem? It’s not that people are self treating with diet. It’s that medical people aren’t taking that seriously and investigating it.
But to answer your question directly, honestly, if I was dying, I would be looking at the available options from within and outside mainstream medicine. Yes, trials and specialists are very useful, but they’re not the be all and end all. Drug trials aren’t the only useful way of knowing what works. As I already commented, off label use of drugs is not uncommon.
btw, I think there is a huge amount of bullshit within the alternative sector too. I just don’t think that doctors are god.
TC, if you are going to make claims for a study, you need to link to the full article. Lots of dubious research going on, even in peer reviewed journals.
I’m not saying this isn’t reliable research (and as stated, I don’t believe that vitamin C can cure cancer), but it’s not enough to present and abstract and ask everyone to trust.
I’m interested to know if you think that the hospital should have refused to give the vit C to the man with bird flu and pneumonia.
There was a well publicised case a couple years back of a Kiwi farmer who was almost fatally struck down by swine flu. Made it to TV in fact. His family finally convinced the hospital (AKL hospital?) to give his comatose body huge dosages of vitamin C and he started recovery almost immediately.
The ‘funny’ thing was that every time supervising doctors changed shift a new boss doctor would come onboard and go “WTF? Vitamin C? Get that quackery outta here”. They’d yank the IV lines out and literally, he would start to die again in front of their eyes until the family pleaded enough to restart it.
The Contrarian
In response to the link you supplied
“Ascorbic acid (vitamin C, ascorbate) has a controversial history in cancer treatment (1). Observational reports described ascorbate, given in pharmacologic doses of 10 g daily, as effective in treating some cancers and in improving patient well-being (2-4).
Subsequently, the same dose had no effect on patient well-being and survival in two double-blind placebo-controlled trials, and ascorbate was discarded as a treatment modality (5, 6).
Recent clinical evidence, however, indicates that the role of ascorbate in cancer treatment should be examined anew (7). THE ORIGINALLY REPORTED OBSERVATIONAL STUDIES USED I.V. AND ORAL ASCORBATE, BUT THE SUBSEQUENT DOUBLE-BLIND PLACEBO-CONTROLLED STUDIES USED ONLY ORAL ASCORBATE. It was not recognized that the route of ascorbate administration might produce large differences in plasma concentrations….Despite inconsistencies, some in vitro studies showed that ascorbate killed cancer cells, although mechanisms and physiologic relevance were unclear (10-12). Complementary and alternative medicine practitioners worldwide currently use ascorbate i.v. in some patients, in part because there is no apparent harm (13-15).” [My emphasis]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1224653/?tool=pubmed
Which may well be why the hospital allowed the treatment to be conducted on the person mentioned by Penny Bright.
I agree with Weka’s comments. I would wish to be allowed the treatment if I had the type of illness that MIGHT be cured by it.
“TC, if you are going to make claims for a study, you need to link to the full article. Lots of dubious research going on, even in peer reviewed journals”
I can’t really with this one – it’s a paid service (most medical journals are) and sharing a copy if i did purchase it could possibly break copyright.
“I’m interested to know if you think that the hospital should have refused to give the vit C to the man with bird flu and pneumonia.”
I am not sure to be honest, I wasn’t there and can’t really answer outside yes because it is an untested, non-evidence based treated and no because the man and his family make the ultimate choice in the matter. I can’t really answer.
However, back to the original post, I don’t Penny Bright is particularly, errrr, ‘bright’ in protesting a hospital for not using a technique without sufficient scientific backing.
You just need to link to articles that are open access or have been reviewed elsewhere 😉
btw, a single study of vitamin C used to treat a specific kind of cancer is not evidence that vitamin C has no clinical use at all.
Vitamin C is a registered medicine. It’s use for the man with flu/pneumonia was (presumably) off-label drug use. Is there a reason why that can’t be done again, in a careful considered way?
TheContrarian
Actually the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that Vitamin C is not an effective cancer treatment. If you cannot, you’re basing your belief on nothing but hot air.
Evidence that Vitamin C is a viable cancer treatment has been around since 1976,
when double Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling and Scottish surgeon Ewan Cameron showed an unparalleled increase in survival times in terminal cancer patients treated with vitamin C.
Reevaluation of prolongation of survival times in terminal human cancer
The reason the medical profession don’t recognize such studies is because cancer is a multi million dollar business that would not be anywhere near as profitable if people were encouraged to us a cheap and readily available treatment such as Vitamin C.
Oh dear… You really are an ignorant doofus! Vitamin C has been used to treat many ailments from Autism to LSD Abuse. It’s an essential vitamin after all that if depleted can cause serious health problems. Vitamin C helps the immune and the detoxification system to function properly. It has also been empirically proven with many peer reviewed scientific studies to help cancer patients.
But don’t let your ignorance stop you from making a fool of yourself TheContrarian.
The study you link to has been debunked numerous times and has been superceded by a number of better designed and more reliable trials.
http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/123-1324/4404/
Linus Pauling was a great man, however, his insistence that vitamin C could cure large proportions of patients with cancer was without foundation.
Wow! That’s your evidence… An article written by Shaun Holt from Tauranga? FFS!
Are you aware that the Mayo Clinic study used relatively low oral doses for short periods, rather than the combination of high oral and intravenous (IV) doses in the Pauling and Cameron study?
Clearly that’s not debunking! It’s the pharmaceutical industry trying and failing to discredit alternative medication that works. Were you also aware that the Mayo Clinic has refused to provide anybody with all their research data so their process can be verified. As a result, the Mayo Clinic study is next to useless!
Besides, in 1982 a study (PDF) by Murata A. Morishige F. Yamaguchi H confirmed Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron’s findings. Administering large doses of ascorbate prolongs survival times of terminal cancer patients.
That initial study by Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron in 1976 was reevaluated and confirmed as correct by them in 1978. In fact its been verified on numerous occasions by institutions and researchers who don’t have a vested interest.
Good oh, if you are ever unlucky enough to get cancer feel free to utilise Vitamin C to your hearts content in preference to proven treatments.
Large dosses of Vitamin C is a proven treatment higherstandard.
BTW, I linked to the wrong study above. The Murata A, Morishige F, Yamaguchi H study states:
In comparison your argument is feckless!
No, Vitamin C is a proven treatment for only the following conditions.
Vitamin C deficiency disorders such as scurvey and as an adjunct in idiopathic methaemoglobinaemia.
So those three independent studies I’ve linked to, which all have similar results prove nothing? It would seem that just like the doofus you’re only proving your own ignorance HS.
Todd the studies you’ve linked to are laughable.
As I’ve said there is no reliable evidence that Vitamin C of any dose has a beneficial effect for patients suffering from tumours.
However if you are unlucky enough to ever be diagnosed with cancer there are a number of places in NZ you can access iv Vitamin C should you think it will be of benefit to you.
I would however suggest you access the more proven and effective mainstream therapies before going down that track.
Why are those studies laughable exactly? People cannot access Vitamin C treatment in a public hospital HS, which was kind of Penny’s point in the first place. PS my names not Todd.
They cannot access Vitamin C in a public hospital due to its lack of proven efficacy, they can access it from a number of alternative medicine clinics around NZ.
Not surprisingly there are no reports from these alternative medicine centres of miraculous outcomes.
I haven’t the time or will power to attempt to educate you on what constitutes a well designed reliable trial but feel free to investigate on google scholar or the like.
I refer to your previous handle which was Todd prior to the Jackal I believe.
You haven’t the time HS because you’re talking shit. Those studies I’ve linked to constitute well designed and reliable research, unlike the piece of rubbish you linked to.
Answer me this if you can. Clearly the pharmaceutical industry has an ulterior motive to show that Vitamin C is not a viable medicine… What would be the ulterior motive for the researchers/scientists who show that high doses of vitamin C can treat cancer? Why would they lie HS?
Please use my current handle. Jackal
Todd the studies you linked to were nether blinded, nor randomised according to tumour type, KS or previous treatment chemotherapy.
The commentary I linked to had a number of references at the bottom some of which are to randomised blinded studies if you would care to look the trials showing no effect of Vitamin C have generally been funded via the institution where they have been carried out of via educational grants.
If the pharmaceutical industry had any inkling that vitamin C was useful in cancer or nay other illness they would make minor modifcations in the molecule to make it more efficacious patent it and make a fortune.
I would dearly like vitamin C to be useful in the treatment of cancer due to its low toxicity unfortunately there balance of evidence suggests that this is the case.
Wrong again HS. Many of the studies showing a positive result are clinical trials that don’t actually require blinded testing. However the Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron study used a thousand matched controls. This is used for observational data (i.e. non experimental data).
It’s obvious that you don’t really know what you’re talking about and haven’t even bothered to read that study properly, so here’s the guts of it again:
You will find that any studies you’re able to provide that show Vitamin C has no effect on cancer tumors was because they didn’t use it at a high enough dose to achieve plasma concentrations that are generally cytotoxic to tumor cells.
I like your Freudian slip there BTW. On the balance of evidence it really does seem to be the case that Vitamin C is an effective treatment for cancer.
“Many of the studies showing a positive result are clinical trials that don’t actually require blinded testing.”
Todd you don’t have the foggiest idea what you’re talking about, Paulins study has been evaluated and critiqued repeatedly and is still taught in medical shools in relation to poor study design.
To quote the chief of the clinical investigations branch of the National Cancer Institute’s cancer therapy program…..
‘…the vitamin C and control groups had not been properly matched, no data had been published to demonstrate that the patients had been matched by stage of their disease, functional ability, weight loss, and sites of metastasis, all of which are important judging the stage of the disease. Pauling and Cameron’s patients began getting vitamin C when Cameron judged them “untreatable” and their subsequent survival was compared to that of the control patients from the time they had been labeled “untreatable.”
If the two groups were comparable, the average time from the initial diagnosis to “untreatable” status should be similar for both groups. But they were not. Hence Cameron’s patients had been labeled untreatable earlier in the course of their disease and would therefore be expected to live longer, also more than 20% of the patients in the control group had died within a few days of being labeled untreatable, whereas none of Cameron’s patients had died. This, too, suggested that Cameron’s patients had had less advanced disease when they were labeled untreatable…..’
As I’ve said if you are unfortunate enough to be diagnosed with cancer feel free to try alternative methods, I’ll stick with proven therapies.
Apologies for my poor typing this morning phones are shite to type upon.
Your evidence is an article written by Shaun Holt from Tauranga and one Medical Doctor… C’mon HS, surely you can do better than that?
Firstly William D. DeWys “research” does not seem to be available online? Secondly he makes a number of unfounded statements that are easily refuted.
Here’s how the selection process was undertaken:
From the 1978 reevaluation study (PDF).
Looks like your doctor DeWys is full of shit HS. It would really help the debate if you actually bothered to read the research instead of regurgitating what is obviously false information… But I guess I’m asking for too much?
Todd from memory the NCI made their comments on Paulings study well after all Paulings results were published.
As DeWys was at that stage one of the senior investigative clinicians at the NCI I’d hardly call him full of shit.
http://history.nih.gov/nihinownwords/docs/Dr.WilliamD.DeWys.htm
Pauling however, tended to get more and more bizarre in his claims regarding the utility of Vitamin C. As I’ve said previously if you are unfortunate enough to ever suffer from cancer I’d recommend starting with proven inteventions rather than the like of high dose iv Vitamin C.
DeWys is clearly full of shit HS. The paragraph I’ve quoted from Pauling and Cameron’s reevaluation study totally contradicts what he has said. DeWys claims that it was Linus Pauling himself who chose the test subjects when it was in fact senior members of the Medical Records Staff in Vale of Leven Hospital.
It really comes down to who has a reason to lie… I’ve provided a reason why the pharmaceutical industry would promote false information. I ask again… Why would Pauling and Cameron and all the other scientists and researchers who have shown high doses of Vitamin C can treat cancer lie?
Why do you keep repeating yourself like a broken record HS? This is becoming tedious! Let me know if you can provide some actual evidence that Vitamin C doesn’t work to treat cancer. Until then I think we should just agree to disagree.
Todd, to suggest that this is some cover up by pharmaceutical suppliers is bizarre – Vit C is available from many alternative medical practitioners here and overseas who offer it alone or along with other therapies to persons who are mistrusting of standard treatment or who have no other options. It is not used for the treatment of cancer by the vast majority of oncologists due to there being no compelling data that is efficacious.
I repeat myself as you do not seem to understand that there is no robust evidence to support the use of Vit C in the treatment of cancer and it is wisest to defer to the experts in the field of medical, and radiation oncology for treatment options which have been the subject of more robust scientific study.
Regarding Pauling’s motives I do note that from histories online The Linus Pauling Institute of Science and Medicine was founded in 1973 and operated under that name until 1995 [20]. The institute was dedicated to “orthomolecular medicine.” For many years, its largest corporate donor was Hoffmann-La Roche, the pharmaceutical giant that produces most of the world’s vitamin C. Many of the institute’s fundraising brochures contained questionable information. During the 1980s, for example, they falsely stated that no significant progress had been made in cancer treatment during the previous twenty years.
And yes I agree to disagree with you.
So you’ve discredited double Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling by providing information from a very dubious website. How do you propose to discredit Murata A, Morishige F, Yamaguchi H, N. H. Riordan, H. D. Riordan, X. Meng, Y. LI and J. A. Jackson, who are just a few of the researchers and scientists that found similar results?
You’re suggesting that there’s some sort of worldwide conspiracy to provide false information about Vitamin C so that manufacturers can sell more. Just to let you know, Acorbate can be purchased for as little as $1 per kg and even less in larger quantities.
In comparison, here’s a breakdown of what cancer treatment costs in the US:
Nobody is going to get rich from using Vitamin C to treat cancer HS. Which makes the latest twist to your now completely defunct argument laughable!
Todd
Not at all, Only Paulings views on cancer and Vitamin C/orthmolecular medicine have been discredited which in his defense he was starting to get somewhat senile towards the end of his life so one cannot really level any serious accusations at him, the vast majority of his scientific work was magnificent this can be said of many famous scientists and even several nobel laureates – I don’t think any of them would claim that every theory they had ever promulgated was correct.
I’m not suggesting there’s any sort of worldwide conspiracy at all, that appears to be your position in relation to the unwillingness of health professionals in particular those in the area of oncology to utilise Vitamin C to treat cancer, my position is that it is not used by health professionals in this setting as it has no utility.
Yes I do realise ascorbate is cheap as are many if not most APIs, this does not mean the actually finished product can be provided to patients cheaply and indeed even if they can be provided to patients cheaply there are unscrupulous individuals such as our own infamous Milan Brych who made fortunes from quackery.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to suggest in relation to cancer costs in the US ?
I thought you had agreed to disagree ?
I cannot find any verifiable information to show that Linus Pauling suffered from senility. You’re not making shit up again are you HS? This is the usual baseless accusations leveled against researchers by people who don’t like the results and have a vested interest in keeping the status quo.
The US cancer treatment costs from 2005 are to show the difference between conventional and alternative treatment using Acorbate. As clearly stated, nobody is going to get rich by using Vitamin C to treat Cancer, and that’s one of the reasons it’s not being utilized. There is therefore no financial reason to promote false information to promote Vitamin C as you believe. You must be suffering a bit of senility yourself if you didn’t understand that HS.
Your contention that Acorbate needs to have extensive changes made so it can be utilized is obviously incorect! The studies show that Acorbate in its present form is effective at treating cancer if administered at high enough doses intravenously and orally.
Then how do you explain the researchers and scientists listed above having the same results as Linus Pauling’s study if it’s not a conspiracy between them?
In contrast, I think it is a deplorable conspiracy to not generally use a cheap and effective alternative medication to treat a disease that one in three Kiwis will suffer from. Clearly there’s a profit motive to repressing an inexpensive medication and pharmaceutical companies are not beyond reproach. For instance Glaxo Smith and Kline was recently fined $3 billion for putting peoples lives in danger purely to make money. That criminal proceeding was an isolated case lost in a sea of medical corruption.
Whether you like it or not HS, there is robust evidence that shows categorically that high doses of Vitamin C is effective at treating cancer. I’ve provided some of this information here to which you’ve not adequately responded. That’s because there’s far more scientific research that shows Vitamin C is an effective treatment than says it isn’t.
Therefore there is a consensus amongst scientists that it works… It just needs to be recognized by medical practitioners, who unfortunately are in the pocket of big pharmaceutical companies. Until their profit motive to use inferior and more expensive medications is addressed, cancer patients will continue to not have ready access to an a proven and inexpensive treatment that works.
You still have not linked to DeWys’ “research” that apparently discredits the Reevaluation of prolongation of survival times in terminal human cancer? Making claims that are unverifiable is what quackery is all about. But feel free to keep quacking if you like HS.
You really are a trifle odd Todd.
There’s really little point in trying to educate you on the methodologies and rationale supported by vast amounts of reputable, repeatable and robust clinical research for treating the various types of cancers they way we do and the various costs associated with either surgery, radiation and chemotherapy or combinations of all three as you appear set in your mind set that it’s all a massive conspiracy by company/s and person’s unknown who’ve duped the medical profession, regulators and scientists into treating cancer patients how we do rather than with Vitamin C.
It’s not odd at all to believe that the majority of studies into using Vitamin C to treat cancer are correct. If people just accepted the status quo as it is, we would never have any progress at all.
@ The Jackal,
I don’t know why you bother to continue this debate with Higher Than a Kite, for despite having provided it with plenty of reasoned argument, AND evidence it continues to ignore you and bang on about “there being no evidence” when both you and myself provided substantial evidence that it has been an effective treatment. (the evidence I provided indicated that it would be worth further investigation).
Science would have gotten nowhere if the view prevailed that anything that hasn’t been fully scientifically evaluated doesn’t exist and is of no effect.
That it is now deemed only those with money are allowed the privilege to decide what gets scientifically evaluated or not, and that that decision is left to their poor imaginations as to what will lead to profit and what won’t, then methinks this situation is going to lead us to less and less discoveries.
+1
BL and Todd are either of you are qualified cancer specialists, clinicians of any sort or do you have science background ?
The evidence that Vitamin C has any utility in the treatment of cancer has not been demonstrated in any useful manner the interventions which are used in the treatment of cancer have been proven useful in modern blinded trials which is why those treating patients with cancer utilise these proven interventions and continue to treat and trial new interventions which may improve patient outcomes this has lead to major advances in the outcomes of patients with many tumour types over the last several decades
Here’s one instead
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1224653/?tool=pubmed
“Recent clinical evidence, however, indicates that the role of ascorbate in cancer treatment should be examined anew …Despite inconsistencies, some in vitro studies showed that ascorbate killed cancer cells, although mechanisms and physiologic relevance were unclear “
Yes it’s interesting – it’s also in vitro.
No well designed in vivo studies have shown a benefit of vitamin c in the treatment of cancer.
The thing that irked me about the comment by TJ was…
‘The reason the medical profession don’t recognize such studies is because cancer is a multi million dollar business that would not be anywhere near as profitable if people were encouraged to us a cheap and readily available treatment such as Vitamin C.’
To suggest that oncologists only utilise surgery, radiotherapy and chemotherapy to treat cancer due to some profit motive is offensive.
Agreed. They utilise those methods because its the only options those practitioners are exposed to in their training and the only options they are given in a hospital setting.
The filtering happens faraway at the business case level in the big pharma and medical device corporates. There is nothing patentable or profitable about IV Vit C so no surprise it goes no where.
Yes that’s obviously the reason, all clinicians, regulatory authorities, researchers, patient advocacy groups and QANGOS such as PHARMAC have been duped.
PS I am being sarcastic as this is about as useful as debating 9/11 with Eve.
Meanwhile, ebola rears its head again.
Probably the secret world government preparing to send us all to lizard feeding farms.
hs – don’t be a dick. I stated very clearly that the decisions are made BEFORE it gets to PHARMAC or any front line clinicians. Don’t go intellectually blind on me all of a sudden and refuse to think by hiding behind the Twin Towers.
You seem to be trying to say that pharmaceutical corporates don’t assess potential products for profitability before committing to their development, and that they don’t cull out all but the most financially promising treatment candidates/areas of health. Of course they do. They are profit driven private enterprises.
Its why we have a shitload ofexpensive drugs to deal with important health problems like Developed World Impotence and Developed World Obesity, and fuck all antibiotics for the 3rd world.
CV I’m not being a dick just frustrated that persons such as yourself continue to spread such inanity and false hope and then seek to accuse some dark motive and cover up as the obvious rationale as to why no one heeds your advice.
for your information the WHO via a number of pharmaceutical companies in india and the like supplies anti virals, anti biotics and other medical supplies into the third world at very reasonable pricing.
Similarly R&D in the pharmaceutical arena is carried out less and less by the huge pharmaceutical players as they are Dilbert like and more and more by very small researchers like those we have in Dunedin, Wellington and Auckland.
Phase 1 and 11 research has been and is being carried out with iv Vitamin C by laboratories under the auspices of the NCI in a number of tumour types with less than exciting results.
If it worked, Pharmac would demand it be used. Just like they demand the cheapest of any other drug be used, if mostly effective. This is the problem patients whose meds don’t relieve their disease face – Pharmac will not sign up to expensive drugs if there are, in their opinion, cheaper alternatives that suit most people. If there was evidence Vitamin C worked Pharmac would be all over it.
A case of watch this space if Vit C is proved useful.
Hi Rosy,
There is an issue regarding what gets studied. I.e something may be effective, yet not so easily capitalized on therefore something that IS easier to capitalize on will be chosen over it.
Also
http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/abuses_of_science/how-corporations-corrupt-science.html
Blue Leopard, I understand your issues with pharmaceutical corporations, and it is valid in a profit-driven health service, but I think you’ve missed the point entirely. Pharmac have been shown to be quite willing to dump big pharma and it’s take on research outcomes to save money. That’s Pharmac’s brief. Keep the population provided with the drugs required, but at the cheapest possible price. The Herceptin issue is a case in point. So is funding for advanced auto-immune disease suppressants.
Pharmac will also fund research if they think a drugs regime that big pharma doesn’t want will save money. Once again the Herceptin debate is a good example. Pharmac will not rule out vitamin C if it thinks there is a chance that it will be effective at a cheaper price than any other drug. And with Vitamin C, that would have to be about all of them (barring, maybe, methotrexate and similar very old chemotherapy drugs). It simply makes no sense that Pharmac would abandon this model to avoid using Vitamin C if it was effective.
@ Rosy
Its good to here that about Pharmac, however it would appear that if the rigorous clinical trials have not been conducted, I suspect that Pharmac could not follow the course of action you are suggesting they do.
From what you say, however, hopefully when word finally gets to them of the following studies, they might fund the further clinical trials recommended on the matter:
Pharmacologic ascorbic acid concentrations selectively kill cancer cells: action as a pro-drug to deliver hydrogen peroxide to tissues:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16157892?dopt=Abstract
High-dose Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid) Therapy in the Treatment of Patients with Advanced Cancer:
http://ar.iiarjournals.org/content/29/3/809.full
(The following scroll down to “Mega-dose vitamin C as cancer therapy”):
http://www.patrickholford.com/index.php/advice/betterhealtharticle/954/
Cystic Fybrosis barely understandable however scroll to ‘discussion’
“Several candidate molecules have been shown to be effective CFTR activators in vitro or in vivo (35); however, the majority of compounds that activate CFTR have additional pharmacological effects, whereas vitamin C is on the FDA’s list of substances generally recognized as safe, and mega-doses of vitamin C (up to 2.5 g/day) are well tolerated (33). Our study highlights the potential therapeutic use of vitamin C as a safe, nontoxic, and efficacious small molecule for the activation of CFTR-mediated Cl transport in epithelia.”
http://www.pnas.org/content/101/10/3691.full?sid=969ab485-314e-4d47-9ba3-881accae7334
Renal disease
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22706571
Hemodialysis (whatever that is)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22634906
improved quality of life for breast cancer treatment side effects
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22021693
Higherstandard,
Thankyou for acknowledging the link I provided.
I do believe there are issues surrounding scientific study that can warp outcomes.
I provide a link about the issue which describes the summary of a report written by UCS (Union of Concerned Scientists)
http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/abuses_of_science/how-corporations-corrupt-science.html
One thing that they don’t mention, which I have seen conveyed regarding scientific study is that the required finance will often flow where the most profits are to be had (understandable self interest in the part of investors, however this can lead to some areas of knowledge lacking the investigation it deserves)
No Jackal, you have it all wrong. The Burden of Proof lies on someone making the positive claim i.e. Vitamin C is a viable cancer treatment. I didn’t make that claim, you and Penny have therefore the Burden on Proof is on you.
Please view this chart:
http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/rhetological-fallacies/
Specifically that ‘Under Attack section which lists an example of the burden of proof fallacy as thus,
“I don’t need to prove my claim – you must proof it is false”.
Hence your comment:
“…the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that Vitamin C is not an effective cancer treatment…”
is logically invalid.
No Jackal, you have it all wrong. The Burden of Proof lies on someone making the positive claim i.e. Vitamin C is a viable cancer treatment. I didn’t make that claim, you and Penny have therefore the Burden on Proof is on you.
Please view this chart:
http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/rhetological-fallacies/
Specifically that ‘Under Attack section which lists the burden of proof as thus,
“I don’t need to prove my claim – you must proof it is false”.
Hence your comment:
“…the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that Vitamin C is not an effective cancer treatment…”
is logically invalid.
Google and the various results it provides proves Penny Bright’s (and my) claim. You do know how to use google don’t you doofus?
Show me the peer reviewed scientific consensus
Silly Contrarian, who needs peer review (or as Penny writes it, “peer review”) when you’ve got Google?
Those are peer reviewed studies. Three studies saying Vitamin C works to treat cancer compared to your none saying it doesn’t work… Are you guys being stupid on purpose?
lolz that takes about 15 years, and usually changes upside down on its head about 15 years after that.
try opening the link that I posted. You will find FACTS and EVIDENCE
Quackwatch, now there’s a website with an agenda.
Only an idiot dismisses the usefulness of the placebo effect.
I’m sure the man whose life was saved would be well please if he knew it was only placebo and so died instead 🙄
Fisi anal Not true when it comes to this disease Alan Smith was in a coma for along time and everything they threw at him antibiotics etc did not work however after a short spell on high dose vitamin C he recovered miraculously Research in this area has not been carried out to completely dismiss it would be foolish.
May have already been discussed on here, but WTF is our PM on!?
“we welcome the opportunity to cooperate with the U.S. in the next conflicts”
http://36th-parallel.com/2012/09/press-releases-remarks-with-new-zealand-prime-minister-key/
It seems that was the US people mis-interpreting Key’s garbled English. Was allegedly
“we welcome the opportunity to cooperate with the U.S. in this context”
http://publicaddress.net/hardnews/we-what/
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7607653/PMs-accent-leads-to-US-government-mistake
Some of the inaudible parts of the speech in the press release would look just as legit if they were redactions. eg “we will be doing it in (inaudible) but we hope (inaudible) look after its own security.” Hmmm..?
Classic!
John Key – Deputy Sheriff of the South Pacific
Oh dearie … is that like giving new meaning to double tongue? Or forked tongue?
John Key on diction …
Came across that “John Key’s prunciation guide” a while back…it is hilarious 😀
actually, there is a new potential warlord in town, so chew on those noodles
Christchurch: It was cold, and the servants and officials stood around a fire they had made to keep warm. Peter also was standing with them, warming himself.
As Simon Peter stood warming him-self, he was asked, “You are not one of his disciples, are you?
He denied it, saying, “I am not.”
“What is truth?” Pilate asked.
(u could not make this stuff up)
🙂
and emperors have converted before
🙂
I hope that, on top of all the concern shown about child poverty, people will not have missed the dismal news of the rise in youth suicide (including at least one preteen child). Since the last quarter, suicides of those aged between 20 and 24 have risen from 11.4% to 13.5%; Ages between 15 and 19 have risen from from 25.5% to 27.5%.
There will be a number of causes, largely on account of government “policies”, but 28% of the dead were unemployed, many depressed. Back in May, our youth unemployment had the 19th highest rate in OECD countries. Co-founder of the Foundation for Youth Development (FYD), Graeme Dingle, says “Youth unemployment is a growing issue and one that will have a huge impact on the country. If it is left to fester the cost is simply unaffordable in the long run.””
Key boasts today of devoting 62 million dollars to problems of youth, but fails to mention this is to cover a four year period.
Many will be tempted to think, “well, these figures reflect only upon Maori, so what?” Maori and Pakeha are all together citizens of Aotearoa/New Zealand, suicides (whatever the cause) are not to be fixed upon any one race.
We have no idea, of course, of the huge number of attempted and unsuccessful suicides, hospitalised or covered up. How many were due to undue risks, for example in the road toll? Countless people are engaging in “suicidal living patterns”.
Very many human beings have little, if any, conscience or compassion, we have to accept that this is the fact. But, at the least, people might be bothered for basic economical reasons.
The experts in this field will have some sort of formula with which to get a rough idea of failed attempts v “successful” attempts. I have no idea where you would find this for NZ, unfortunately.
A WHO study estimates in Cananda 80-90% of suicide attempts fail.
Dr Terry wrote ” Since the last quarter, suicides of those aged between 20 and 24 have risen from 11.4% to 13.5%; Ages between 15 and 19 have risen from from 25.5% to 27.5%. ”
I dont understand these figures. 25-27% of those aged 15-19 commit suicide?
Yes it sounds shockingly high to say that almost one third of particular group are suicidal. Maybe they are. Otherwise the percentage increase relates to the figure of the period before, though in this case not supplied, i.e. let’s says 10 people died last year, and this year 12 or 13 people died; an increase on 10 by 27.5%
Clashman. For better accuracy, I suggest you research on Google. Sorry if my figures are misleading. I want only to point very clearly to the seriousness of the situation. What you quote from a Canadian source is probably fairly accurate for our society too.
From a quick look here; http://socialreport.msd.govt.nz/health/suicide.html it seems the figures should be per 100,000, not percentages.
That makes alot more sense to me.
I’m certainly not trying to diminish the seriousness of the situation, I just couldn’t get my head around the figuresquoted.
From memory, the latest coroner release might have been saying that 27% of those who committed suicide were aged 15-19.
But the point is valid – the government might hand-wring when attention is paid to the issue, but they sure won’t bother addressing any of the contributing factors (not solely economic, not solely counselling availability or bullying – it’s a very complex issue). I’m pretty sure this government will avoid 9 out of 10 of any identified possible contributing solutions, choosing only the least expensive tenth. But they’ll announce it 9 ties.
Here’s erstwhile suicide advocate Michael Laws this morning on Radio Live, putting on his deadly serious low voice, pretending to be compassionate and concerned about teen suicide: “I sometimes wonder if we shouldn’t show the faces of the hanging corpses.”
The woman caller on the other end of the line, obviously horrified, gasped, “Oh NO.”
M – it’s good to see you have weaned yourself off ZB, (or is that on the other radio in the kitchen?)
And Family First, as part of it’s Marriage campaign, scores an own goal by trying to mock and satirise the high level of suicide amongst young LGBT people:
http://www.gaynz.com/articles/publish/2/article_12229.php
Excuse me, WTF? It’s not only Maori, never has been and never will be…
The child who killed himself was non-Maori, and while there are proportionally fewer unemployed white people than there are unemployed Maori, there are still a huge number of unemployed white people.
It’s very unhelpful to make out that it’s all about Maori… as it’s equally unhelpful to say it’s all about yoof. To use a phrase that makes my teeth ache but it nevertheless true – older, white unemployed people, and older white people who kill themselves, are ‘doubly invisible’, as for various reasons the media really don’t get too exercised about white unemployed people, or non-yoof suicides. Disclosure: A family member, a white man in his forties committed suicide 8 years ago, and I was stunned. The media, awareness groups etc had me convinced that a 40-something suiciding was so unlikely as to be impossible…
You know things have gone too far when copyright enforcement robots kill a legitimate broadcast:
Why are they trying to get Julian Assange?
Why are the British and U.S. regimes trying to exact vengeance on Julian Assange?
Watch this….
Aficionadoes of black comedy will enjoy watching the bloviations of one Michael Mullen from 5:55 to 6:07 on the video.
Vengeance is something practiced by countries at war.
It seems the US is at war with pretty much everything and everyone. What a sad failure.
Vengeance is something practiced by countries at war.
And gangsters and criminals.
It seems the US is at war with pretty much everything and everyone.
This is a campaign against a dissenting journalist, a teller of truth; it’s a war on democracy.
What a sad failure.
They have been stymied by Ecuador.
Someone should ask John Key about his former mates are up to …
“Even as Greece desperately tries to avoid defaulting on its debt, American companies are preparing for what was once unthinkable: that Greece could soon be forced to leave the euro zone.
Bank of America Merrill Lynch has looked into filling trucks with cash and sending them over the Greek border so clients can continue to pay local employees and suppliers in the event money is unavailable.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/03/business/economy/us-companies-prepare-in-case-greece-exits-euro.html?pagewanted=all
Unilever sees poverty returning to Europe
Says it will now enact in Europe the same marketing and product strategies that it uses profitably in 3rd world and developing countries.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9501771/Unilever-sees-return-to-poverty-in-Europe.html
GO CAPITALISM!!!
That would be bribes and other corrupt practices then.
Aye. How long before the local entrepreneur is the one who ‘got ahead’ enough to afford an entire bottle of cooking oil that can then on-sold for a profit in ‘single meal worth’ polythene sachets?
Okay. Perhaps quite some way off.
But did you notice when they began selling 400g blocks of butter in competition with the 500g blocks at the ‘old’ 500g price? Or those 750g blocks of cheese that were all of a sudden available beside the 1 kg blocks at a price comparable with the ‘old’ 1 kg price? Or what about the air pumped into chocolate bars that kept the size and price (but not the weight) the same? Or how about charity shops rebranding as retail outlets?
And back to Europe, is it worth mentioning the call by the eurozone for Greece to introduce a 6 day working week?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/sep/04/eurozone-six-day-week-greece
Tubes? Going down? Nah!
maori certainly playing govt at their own game: RHETORIC
steering the discourse forward
man! a lotta people losing their Grip on all that money they Hoarded (P.T Barnum)
where your treasure is, there your heart will be
-original renaissance man
Heartbeat now (oh bucolic ol’ blighty) and the importance of being earnest
Debunking Economics
No, it’s not. It’s actually profit minimising behaviour. It’s the one I like to twit neo-classical economists with because it uses their own theory to prove that profit is a dead weight loss.
As Steve Keen says in his book, profit maximising firms (both monopoly and competition) will produce the same output. This leaves the firm in a competitive market with increased market share as the only option to increase profit and they can only do that if they lower the selling price which must lower profits for that firm. As each competitive firm will be doing the same thing the end result must, logically, be where marginal cost and marginal revenue are equal resulting in both the maximum output and minimum profit – in theory.
At that point the firm should be able to maintain itself (income = costs) and the people working there but it won’t be paying out dividends to shareholders. Thus cost cutting usually comes in so that profitability and dividends can be returned resulting, most likely, in the redundancies of workers and a decline in product going to market pushing prices and profits back up again. Unfortunately, the cost cutting has also resulted in a decrease in market demand from the redundancies. After that, it gets complicated…
There are two things that I take from this:
1.) For numerous sectors a well regulated and government owned monopoly will be the better option than competition as competition adds it’s own costs (unnecessary duplication and an even more convoluted regulatory system for starters) that society can do without. This seems especially true of natural monopolies such as telecommunications and power.
2.) Competition isn’t there to lower prices as the neo-classicals believe but to lower profits but it doesn’t work because A) we don’t have a perfectly competitive market B) corruption becomes an accepted means to maintain profits (i.e. collusion/cartel behaviour and cronyism) C) speculation for easy and high profits in the financial system replaces actually making stuff (especially in places where the market is saturated) and D) Firms are trying to maximise profit and not minimise it.
This all results in a few mega corporations ruling the market with small companies being kept out and the dead weight loss of profit still hurting everybody.
in another time they might have been called robber barons.
now they are just robbers.
stealing from ALL THE PEOPLE TO Pay for heka paratai and john banks juvenile fantasies of omnipotence.