OK so yesterday showed Key at his Crosby Textor PR directed best.
He had to delay the sale of the power company shares. Rio Tinto’s belligerent money grabbing stance made a delay inevitable. The threat to the electricity wholesale market was far too high.
So did Key acknowledge this? No he blamed Maaaree. It was all their fault.
He is entering into consultation with Iwi to discuss an option the Government will never support so its chances at the inevitable court action will be increased.
And he then sowed confusion by bringing forward an announcement that kiwi soldiers were coming home early from Afghanistan.
He is such a consummate politician. And such an awful leader. New Zealand should be ashamed …
Can i ask, does anyone know which seat cameron brewer is being lined up for national at the next election? He seems to have quite a pr team nehind him, and he has jumped on the greedy maori bandwagon today, the timing is very very interesting?
I thought he was being lined up to go against Brown at next years local body elections so they can plunder akl’s assets, he’s always tub thumping on rates, travel etc etc.
Banksy f’d that up good and proper last time so it’s time for Blinky jnr.
CB will stay in local politics for the time being, as his usefullness is seen to be there, and the timing of the comments deliberate.
I would say that as long as good people are prepared to sit back and wait, hoping that perhaps the local/national political system will begin to represent them, things will continue to get worse.
There are some half decent reps inside AKL Council, but CB is most certainly not one them!
I would see the mayoral attack coming from CB/CF direction, as they want AKL assets, and they want them badly!
Thanks for the link. Yes, it covers a lot of important points, including this:
Lifting the minimum wage to $15 an hour, as proposed in my Bill awaiting debate in Parliament, will not change that overnight, but it is a step in the right direction.
The truth is New Zealand is a low wage economy. Despite National’s promise of a brighter future and closing the wage gap with Australia, every week a thousand kiwis leave New Zealand for Australia.
…
In fact, no direct link between lifting the minimum wage and job losses has ever been proved.
What has been proved is the destructive effect of poverty and inequality.
So it seems the cronyist links between Westpac and the NAct government continue to register at the edges of the media radar, with a failure for the government to fulfill its promise of opening its banking contract (currently with Westpac) for tender:
Westpac acts as the Government’s banker and holds the accounts of all government departments, but not Crown entities or state-owned enterprises. It is thought to be the largest banking contract in New Zealand and was last tendered in 1989.
In 2010, Finance Minister Bill English indicated he would run a procurement process for government banking to ensure the Crown was getting value for money.
But it is understood the Government is concerned the cost of tendering the contract could outweigh the benefits, because it already negotiates fee reductions with the bank, and there are complex arrangements with government departments.
…
In the past year former Cabinet minister Simon Power became the head of Westpac’s private bank, and English’s former press secretary Grant Fleming became Westpac’s government relations manager.
Greens co-leader Russel Norman says that shows there is a “cosy” relationship between the bank and the Government.
….
”Why does it not apply to Westpac when it seems to apply to everyone else? When it comes to banking, Westpac seems to have a dream run.”
Meanwhile, ex-NAct minister Simon Power, now with Westpac, is ensuring his current employer, Westpac, has a significant presence in Christchurch:
And more importantly – why is no one asking the question as to why the Government opts to bank with a foreign owned bank as opposed to using the bank that it conveniently happens to OWN?
Notwithstanding the fact that it would also provide additional capital reserves that apparently Kiwibank needs…
Whilst KiwiBank is doing a good job it is totally under capitalised.
It regularly borrows money from NZ Post (taxpayer) from inception to prop up its finanncial structure.
The Reserve Bank controls ALL Banks in New Zealand with secure financial limits.
It would take the total partial sale assets of a couple of SOE’s to pay back what it owes and to be lodged to set it up competively.
Could be done.
Current spread possibly but we are talking about going for Banker to the Government of New Zealand, not continuing in its current 5% and a bit market share.
‘concerned the cost of tendering the contract.’ yeah right Blagger Bill.
They burn piles of dosh on consultants and ticket clippers on the now stalled MOMathon, intended share giveaways, RONS with little or negative payback, consulting culture in and around treasury etc etc etc.
The arrogance continues to be world class from this gov’t but they’re consistent here with another broken promise.
National MPs on the Commerce Select Committee have misled New Zealanders on the options for saving public broadcaster TVNZ7 in a report released today, Labour’s broadcasting spokesperson Clare Curran says.
“The Government members of the Commerce Committee have claimed in their majority report that there was never any suggestion that Government funding would continue for TVNZ7 beyond the contracted period.
“But Cabinet documents clearly show that there were proposals considered and then rejected by the National Government that could have kept TVNZ7 running.
“The Government members have also refused to hear the views of the 36,000 petition signees to save TVNZ7. It is unacceptable that this committee has demonstrated a lack of respect or consideration for their views and refused to hear from them.
VITAMIN C CAN CURE: So why does Auckland Hospital REFUSE to give it to you?
________________________________________________________________________________
Man saved by Vitamin C to lead protest at Auckland Hospital
Allan Smith, whose life was saved in 2009 by intravenous Vitamin C at Auckland Hospital, will be protesting from 12-2 pm on September 15 … at Auckland Hospital – for turning its back on this life saving treatment.
Smith was featured on two segments on 60 Minutes in 2010.
60 Minutes detailed his surprising story of near fatal illness with Swine Flu and pneumonia, and the willingness of Auckland Hospital to “pull the plug” on him – kill him – rather than give him Vitamin C.
Vitamin C, especially in high doses, has been a well-known and scientifically accepted anti-viral for many years, andyet Auckland hospital initially refused to administer it,falsely claiming that they had “tried everything” to no avail.
When the hospital, under pressure from the family, finally andRELUCTANTLY administered the vitamin C, Smith began to show a dramatic improvement within days.
Within a few short weeks he was well again.
Unfortunately, Auckland Hospital and many other NZ hospitals seem to have learned nothing from the experience and to this day they actually REFUSE to administer vitamin C to patients presenting with acute viral illnesses such as flu.
They persistently and falsely claim that there is “no evidence” for the efficacy of vitamin C, but there is, indeed, massive amounts of evidence for it – even in their “peer reviewed” medical literature.
Vitamin C is even a registered medicine in New Zealand.
And yet they initially refused to give it to Allan Smith and they continue to refuse to give it to other people who are ill with viral (or bacterial) illnesses.
And some people reportedly have died as a result of this refusal to even try it!
Were it not for the persistence of Smith’s family, he would have died, too.
Whatever the reason for this intransigence in the face of the obvious successes of Vitamin C, the people of New Zealand deserve to have a medical system that is truly evidence-based, and is focussed entirely on the best recovery strategies available – rather than one that refuses to acknowledge its mistakes.
Across the board, mistakes such as this one are costing thousands of lives, in that the Medical System itself is now reliably VITAMIN C CAN CURE considered to be the third leading cause of death in New Zealand.
Why, we ask, is it so difficult for Auckland Hospital to learn from the case of Allan Smith? Why is so hard to admit that a mistake was made? … and then change a ridiculous policy that is costing lives and public health.
Contact: Allan Smith
Tel 07 873 7572
027-472-2975
________________________________________________________________________________
I’ll be there – outside Auckland Hospital from 12 noon – 2pm Saturday 15 September 2012.
errr…………… A bit of a NO-BRAINER I would have thought?
Aren’t hospitals and medical staff supposed to be in the business (as it were 🙂 of SAVING lives?
If Vitamin C can cure – why is Auckland Hospital refusing to give this treatment?
I’ll be protesting outside Auckland Hospital on 15 September 2012 from 12 noon to 2pm because I support this issue.
In my considered opinion, as a ‘veteran’ activist with over 40 years experience – ‘it’s the masses who get off their asses’ – who help bring about change.
Pity a few more people didn’t get off their butts and stand up to be counted, in order to help make a difference?
“If Vitamin C can cure – why is Auckland Hospital refusing to give this treatment?”
because it has never been proven and only tenuous links have been established. There have been no, to very few, double blind studies done and no real incontrovertible evidence that Vitamin C has any real effect.
The Vitamin C Can Cure Coalition is is a patient and family support group which has come together to promote the benefits of high dose vitamin C to resolve a variety of life threatening illnesses. We also exist to support patients’ rights to access to this treatment.
Intravenous vitamin C is a registered medicine in New Zealand, yet this medication is currently being refused patients requesting it in New Zealand hospitals. The dangers of such refusal is that it may lead to unnecessary deaths.
Intravenous vitamin C can be a lifesaving treatment when administered in a timely manner and in sufficient doses. Last year New Zealander Allan Smith was critically ill with swine flu and was facing death as his life support was going to be turned off. At his family’s request, Allan Smith was administered high dose intravenous vitamin C and made a full recovery and is alive and well today.
The Allan Smith Story
Allan Smith’s recovery from Swine Flu and Hairy Cell Leukemia was documented on TV3′s 60 Minutes Programme. The story may be viewed at this link on TV3′s website:
“Some physicians would stand by and see their patient die
rather than use ascorbic acid (vitamin C) because
in their finite minds it exists only as a vitamin”
– Dr. Frederick Robert Klenner
Sure. How about “that reminds me of the person who called everything a false-flag operation to the point that the person looked extremely delusional, but then it became evident that they didn’t know what ‘false flag’ actually meant. So beware of randoms on the internet making claims of miracles or conspiracies.”
Nah, where that went wrong for you was, you assumed I care what the “official definition” of a FF is, when I just use the term for things which smell bad!
You asked me my opinion, I gave it, you didn’t like it and have got your g string in a twist!
Okay then, it is apparent to me that you are an aardvark thinker. Although I’m not going to be nailed down by TPTB’s “official definition” of those words, but I’ll expect you to know what I mean.
It may look helpful to you, Penny, but I’m pretty sure if Contrarian responded by linking to a site called “novitaminccan’tcure.com” you might get an idea of why no one else finds it particularly compelling.
because it has never been proven and only tenuous links have been established. There have been no, to very few, double blind studies done and no real incontrovertible evidence that Vitamin C has any real effect.
A precious first, Contrarian… I agree wholeheartedly with you! 🙂
And more on NAct crony watch – Rebstock now confirmed as ACC chair and leader of its “culture change” – on her record, I can’t see that as being a change for the better:
Also joining Ms Rebstock on the board are financial adviser and Public Trust chairman Trevor Janes, Auckland University School of Medicine head Professor Des Gorman and public and medical law expert Kristy McDonald QC, who have all been appointed for three-year terms.
A fourth new board member has also been identified, but not named, and will start their role in 2013.
The new appointees will join the existing board members Jill Spooner, John Meehan and Jane Huria.
Ms Collins says the new appointments reflect the government’s commitment to rebuilding the public’s trust and confidence in ACC.
She said Ms Rebstock has “demonstrated a commitment to culture change at ACC”.
Also joining Ms Rebstock on the board are financial adviser and Public Trust chairman Trevor Janes, Auckland University School of Medicine head Professor Des Gorman and public and medical law expert Kristy McDonald QC, who have all been appointed for three-year terms.
A fourth new board member has also been identified, but not named, and will start their role in 2013.
The new appointees will join the existing board members Jill Spooner, John Meehan and Jane Huria.
Ms Collins says the new appointments reflect the government’s commitment to rebuilding the public’s trust and confidence in ACC.
She said Ms Rebstock has “demonstrated a commitment to culture change at ACC”.
There is a problem here, these are 3 year appointments and they are obviously political and ideological. The precedent is not good, should the government change and the direction / ideology change as well (by no means certain with PaganiLab) then they may just have to be ejected.
That’s not evidence TC. That’s a one man trial. It’s interesting, but it doesn’t count as even being close to evidence of anything other than that the treatment didn’t work for him.
You might have missed this in the article too –
“Debate about high-dose vitamin C had been raging for three decades and it was time proper clinical trials were conducted, he said. ”
(my emphasis). That’s a university researcher saying that there is no evidence either way yet.
btw, I don’t believe that Vit C is a cure for cancer. It might be helpful for some people.
Well, the burden of proof is on Penny not me. But you are right it isn’t evidence because there is no evidence the Vit. C can do what it claims and you can’t prove a negative.
So this is why I queried Penny’s protest. She is protesting that a hospital isn’t dosing people up with Vitamin C when there isn’t any evidence it’d be helpful at all.
But you are right it isn’t evidence because there is no evidence the Vit. C can do what it claims and you can’t prove a negative.
Pure BS. You have no idea what you are talking about.
You can demonstrate that something has no clinical effect. Its what ordinary drug tirals do all the time. That is not the case for vitamin C where the evidence remains inconclusive.
Its called the burden of proof. The burden of proof is on Penny who says Vitamin C has clinical effect so it is up to her to provide evidence and she made the original claim and her original claim is a positive assertion.
“The only side effect of high doses of ascorbate is a mild laxative effect. There are no reliable reports of severe ascorbate toxicity, such as acidosis or kidney stones.”
“If Vitamin C has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient , I do question why a hospital wouldn’t at least try it.”
True, but why not try Vitamin D? Or any other substance for that matter.
“has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient” is not a good way of deciding on treatment and the fear, as pointed out by medical officials is that people won’t seek proper medical treatment thinking instead of trying Vitamin C
My reference to “no likelihood of posing danger to a patient” rests on the logic that if something is believed to help a condition, that it has helped others, yet has not been through a rigorous scientific testing process-then I see no problem with giving it to patients who are requesting it as long as it will do no harm.
I believe medical staff are under an oath to do no harm. I assumed this would be the reason why they are not giving it to patients who request it.
“has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient” is not a good way of deciding on treatment and the fear, as pointed out by medical officials is that people won’t seek proper medical treatment thinking instead of trying Vitamin C
Dude, the man was in a coma in the hospital. Do you really think that there was a fear that he would try vitamin C and not seek medical treatment?
Here’s a good look at the ethics of the situation, including details of what the man went through, and how the family had to get lawyers and the HDC involved in what eventually saved his life. (the link shows an ODT article by Grant Gillett, professor of medical ethics at the University of Otago Bioethics Centre)
Hospitals don’t “try it” as there is no evidence that it works in a positive manner in vivo in any variety of cancer patient.
In terms of the occasional anecdotal report as per that provided by PB in a patient with the viral infections supportive data in this group is also lacking.
Medicine is (or at least should be) evidence based – particularly in hospitals. You can’t have people just whacking up any old treatment because it might not do any harm based on anecdotal evidence.
They need to protect themselves as well as the patient and you’d be one death away from a serious issue.
Higherstandard doesn’t make a good point, supplying investigative outcomes to the taking of Vit C orally when the discussion is about high dose intravenous application is not an effective response to what I posted.
“They need to protect themselves aswell…”
Which is precisely why I mentioned that if it does no harm…If it is clear that a patient is not going to be poisoned by the substance, and alongside the information supplied in this thread, that people have responded well to this treatment it appears a shame NOT to try it.
It wasn’t just any old treatment though. It’s a treatment that some physicians use.
Doctor’s prescribe drugs for off label use quite often.
Personally if I was dying, I’d be happy to try any old treatment.
I take your point about hospitals needing to protect themselves. And I agree that drugs should be properly tested But there are also situations where that is not appropriate and this case appears to be one of them.
If you’re taking about high dose iv Vit C as far as I’m aware there is no in vivo data showing it to be efficacious.
I do know there are a couple of GPs supplying it for cancer patients that request it but no one in the hospital system would touch it as it is costly in both time and money for no gain and they have proven interventions to provide.
In response to Weka – would you prefer an intervention that was proven to have a benefit recommended by a specialist prior to “trying anything” ?
Frankly if there was any evidence too support giving it most doctors and PHARMAC would be delighted.
” alongside the information supplied in this thread, that people have responded well to this treatment it appears a shame NOT to try it.”
The information is anecdotal. The scientific evidence, the medical evidence (what scant there is at this time) points to it not being an adequate or proper treatment for any condition neither have any studies proven any efficacy from its application.
In that case any doctor is going to shy away from using anything with any clear studies and research to back it up.
They place to test study such things isn’t by randomly shooting up patients in a hospital because it mightn’t hurt. You need double-blind, studies on a large group with a single methodology and similar doses vs. similar conditions – until such a time that takes place I think it is a good thing our hospitals are not used as laboratories.
“In response to Weka – would you prefer an intervention that was proven to have a benefit recommended by a specialist prior to “trying anything” ?”
I’d prefer it if the medical establishment weren’t so closedminded, or captured by bigpharma. We’ve had decades to get over this chasm between mainstream and alternative medicine. Fault is on both sides, but just because some medical doctors say something doesn’t make it so. They have massive gaps in their knowledge and experience.
Here’s an example. Many people mitigate or completely relieve the effects of arthritis by making changes to their diets. Most doctors will say that there is no connection. I think there may now be some acceptance of taking things like glucosamine, but in general the line is that there is no evidence or even any useful theory. And yet many people are treating themselves and getting good results. Yes, that’s anecdotal, but if the people are feeling better, what is the problem? It’s not that people are self treating with diet. It’s that medical people aren’t taking that seriously and investigating it.
But to answer your question directly, honestly, if I was dying, I would be looking at the available options from within and outside mainstream medicine. Yes, trials and specialists are very useful, but they’re not the be all and end all. Drug trials aren’t the only useful way of knowing what works. As I already commented, off label use of drugs is not uncommon.
btw, I think there is a huge amount of bullshit within the alternative sector too. I just don’t think that doctors are god.
TC, if you are going to make claims for a study, you need to link to the full article. Lots of dubious research going on, even in peer reviewed journals.
I’m not saying this isn’t reliable research (and as stated, I don’t believe that vitamin C can cure cancer), but it’s not enough to present and abstract and ask everyone to trust.
I’m interested to know if you think that the hospital should have refused to give the vit C to the man with bird flu and pneumonia.
I’m interested to know if you think that the hospital should have refused to give the vit C to the man with bird flu and pneumonia.
There was a well publicised case a couple years back of a Kiwi farmer who was almost fatally struck down by swine flu. Made it to TV in fact. His family finally convinced the hospital (AKL hospital?) to give his comatose body huge dosages of vitamin C and he started recovery almost immediately.
The ‘funny’ thing was that every time supervising doctors changed shift a new boss doctor would come onboard and go “WTF? Vitamin C? Get that quackery outta here”. They’d yank the IV lines out and literally, he would start to die again in front of their eyes until the family pleaded enough to restart it.
“Ascorbic acid (vitamin C, ascorbate) has a controversial history in cancer treatment (1). Observational reports described ascorbate, given in pharmacologic doses of 10 g daily, as effective in treating some cancers and in improving patient well-being (2-4).
Subsequently, the same dose had no effect on patient well-being and survival in two double-blind placebo-controlled trials, and ascorbate was discarded as a treatment modality (5, 6).
Recent clinical evidence, however, indicates that the role of ascorbate in cancer treatment should be examined anew (7). THE ORIGINALLY REPORTED OBSERVATIONAL STUDIES USED I.V. AND ORAL ASCORBATE, BUT THE SUBSEQUENT DOUBLE-BLIND PLACEBO-CONTROLLED STUDIES USED ONLY ORAL ASCORBATE. It was not recognized that the route of ascorbate administration might produce large differences in plasma concentrations….Despite inconsistencies, some in vitro studies showed that ascorbate killed cancer cells, although mechanisms and physiologic relevance were unclear (10-12). Complementary and alternative medicine practitioners worldwide currently use ascorbate i.v. in some patients, in part because there is no apparent harm (13-15).” [My emphasis]
“TC, if you are going to make claims for a study, you need to link to the full article. Lots of dubious research going on, even in peer reviewed journals”
I can’t really with this one – it’s a paid service (most medical journals are) and sharing a copy if i did purchase it could possibly break copyright.
“I’m interested to know if you think that the hospital should have refused to give the vit C to the man with bird flu and pneumonia.”
I am not sure to be honest, I wasn’t there and can’t really answer outside yes because it is an untested, non-evidence based treated and no because the man and his family make the ultimate choice in the matter. I can’t really answer.
However, back to the original post, I don’t Penny Bright is particularly, errrr, ‘bright’ in protesting a hospital for not using a technique without sufficient scientific backing.
You just need to link to articles that are open access or have been reviewed elsewhere 😉
btw, a single study of vitamin C used to treat a specific kind of cancer is not evidence that vitamin C has no clinical use at all.
Vitamin C is a registered medicine. It’s use for the man with flu/pneumonia was (presumably) off-label drug use. Is there a reason why that can’t be done again, in a careful considered way?
Well, the burden of proof is on Penny not me. But you are right it isn’t evidence because there is no evidence the Vit. C can do what it claims and you can’t prove a negative.
Actually the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that Vitamin C is not an effective cancer treatment. If you cannot, you’re basing your belief on nothing but hot air.
Evidence that Vitamin C is a viable cancer treatment has been around since 1976,
when double Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling and Scottish surgeon Ewan Cameron showed an unparalleled increase in survival times in terminal cancer patients treated with vitamin C.
Tests confirm that the ascorbate-treated patients and the matched controls are representative subpopulations of the same population of “untreatable” patients. Survival times were measured not only from the date of “untreatability” but also from the precisely known date of first hospital attendance for the cancer that eventually reached the terminal stage. The ascorbate-treated patients were found to have a mean survival time about 300 days greater than that of the controls. Survival times greater than 1 yr after the date of untreatability were observed for 22% of the ascorbate-treated patients and for 0.4% of the controls. The mean survival time of these 22 ascorbate-treated patients is 2.4 yr after reaching the apparently terminal stage; 8 of the ascorbate-treated patients are still alive, with a mean survival time after untreatability of 3.5 yr.
The reason the medical profession don’t recognize such studies is because cancer is a multi million dollar business that would not be anywhere near as profitable if people were encouraged to us a cheap and readily available treatment such as Vitamin C.
The information is anecdotal. The scientific evidence, the medical evidence (what scant there is at this time) points to it not being an adequate or proper treatment for any condition neither have any studies proven any efficacy from its application.
Oh dear… You really are an ignorant doofus! Vitamin C has been used to treat many ailments from Autism to LSD Abuse. It’s an essential vitamin after all that if depleted can cause serious health problems. Vitamin C helps the immune and the detoxification system to function properly. It has also been empirically proven with many peer reviewed scientific studies to help cancer patients.
But don’t let your ignorance stop you from making a fool of yourself TheContrarian.
Wow! That’s your evidence… An article written by Shaun Holt from Tauranga? FFS!
Are you aware that the Mayo Clinic study used relatively low oral doses for short periods, rather than the combination of high oral and intravenous (IV) doses in the Pauling and Cameron study?
Clearly that’s not debunking! It’s the pharmaceutical industry trying and failing to discredit alternative medication that works. Were you also aware that the Mayo Clinic has refused to provide anybody with all their research data so their process can be verified. As a result, the Mayo Clinic study is next to useless!
Besides, in 1982 a study (PDF) by Murata A. Morishige F. Yamaguchi H confirmed Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron’s findings. Administering large doses of ascorbate prolongs survival times of terminal cancer patients.
Ascorbic acid and its salts (AA) are preferentially toxic to tumor cells in vitro and in vivo. Given in high enough doses to maintain plasma concentrations above levels that have been shown to be toxic to tumor cells in vitro, AA has the potential to selectively kill tumor cells in a manner similar to other tumor cytotoxic chemotherapeutic agents. Most studies of AA and cancer to date have not utilized high enough doses of AA to maintain tumor cytotoxic plasma concentrations of AA. Data are presented which demonstrate the ability to sustain plasma levels of AA in humans above levels which are toxic to tumor cells in vitro and suggests the feasibility of using AA as a cytotoxic chemotherapeutic agent.
That initial study by Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron in 1976 was reevaluated and confirmed as correct by them in 1978. In fact its been verified on numerous occasions by institutions and researchers who don’t have a vested interest.
Large dosses of Vitamin C is a proven treatment higherstandard.
BTW, I linked to the wrong study above. The Murata A, Morishige F, Yamaguchi H study states:
Clinical trials administering supplemental ascorbate to terminal cancer patients were conducted at two hospitals in Japan. During the period 1973-1977 there were 99 patients with terminal cancer at the Fukuoka Torikai Hospital. The average times of survival after the date of designation as terminal were 43 days for 44 low-ascorbate patients and 246 days for 55 high-ascorbate patients. Three of the high-ascorbate patients were still alive, their average survival being 1550 days, on April 1, 1980. Similar effectiveness of ascorbate was also observed at the Kamioka Kozan Hospital. There were 31 patients with terminal cancer during the period 1975-1979. The average survival times were 48 days for 19 control patients and 115 days for 6 high-ascorbate patients. One of the high-ascorbate patients was still alive, his survival being 215 days. In addition to the increase in survival times, the administration of large doses of ascorbate seemed to improve the quality of life.
So those three independent studies I’ve linked to, which all have similar results prove nothing? It would seem that just like the doofus you’re only proving your own ignorance HS.
As I’ve said there is no reliable evidence that Vitamin C of any dose has a beneficial effect for patients suffering from tumours.
However if you are unlucky enough to ever be diagnosed with cancer there are a number of places in NZ you can access iv Vitamin C should you think it will be of benefit to you.
I would however suggest you access the more proven and effective mainstream therapies before going down that track.
Why are those studies laughable exactly? People cannot access Vitamin C treatment in a public hospital HS, which was kind of Penny’s point in the first place. PS my names not Todd.
They cannot access Vitamin C in a public hospital due to its lack of proven efficacy, they can access it from a number of alternative medicine clinics around NZ.
Not surprisingly there are no reports from these alternative medicine centres of miraculous outcomes.
I haven’t the time or will power to attempt to educate you on what constitutes a well designed reliable trial but feel free to investigate on google scholar or the like.
I refer to your previous handle which was Todd prior to the Jackal I believe.
You haven’t the time HS because you’re talking shit. Those studies I’ve linked to constitute well designed and reliable research, unlike the piece of rubbish you linked to.
Answer me this if you can. Clearly the pharmaceutical industry has an ulterior motive to show that Vitamin C is not a viable medicine… What would be the ulterior motive for the researchers/scientists who show that high doses of vitamin C can treat cancer? Why would they lie HS?
Todd the studies you linked to were nether blinded, nor randomised according to tumour type, KS or previous treatment chemotherapy.
The commentary I linked to had a number of references at the bottom some of which are to randomised blinded studies if you would care to look the trials showing no effect of Vitamin C have generally been funded via the institution where they have been carried out of via educational grants.
If the pharmaceutical industry had any inkling that vitamin C was useful in cancer or nay other illness they would make minor modifcations in the molecule to make it more efficacious patent it and make a fortune.
I would dearly like vitamin C to be useful in the treatment of cancer due to its low toxicity unfortunately there balance of evidence suggests that this is the case.
Wrong again HS. Many of the studies showing a positive result are clinical trials that don’t actually require blinded testing. However the Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron study used a thousand matched controls. This is used for observational data (i.e. non experimental data).
It’s obvious that you don’t really know what you’re talking about and haven’t even bothered to read that study properly, so here’s the guts of it again:
Analysis of the survival-time curves indicated that deaths occur for about 90% of the ascorbate-treated patients at one third the rate for the controls and that the other 10% have a much greater survival time.
You will find that any studies you’re able to provide that show Vitamin C has no effect on cancer tumors was because they didn’t use it at a high enough dose to achieve plasma concentrations that are generally cytotoxic to tumor cells.
I like your Freudian slip there BTW. On the balance of evidence it really does seem to be the case that Vitamin C is an effective treatment for cancer.
“Many of the studies showing a positive result are clinical trials that don’t actually require blinded testing.”
Todd you don’t have the foggiest idea what you’re talking about, Paulins study has been evaluated and critiqued repeatedly and is still taught in medical shools in relation to poor study design.
To quote the chief of the clinical investigations branch of the National Cancer Institute’s cancer therapy program…..
‘…the vitamin C and control groups had not been properly matched, no data had been published to demonstrate that the patients had been matched by stage of their disease, functional ability, weight loss, and sites of metastasis, all of which are important judging the stage of the disease. Pauling and Cameron’s patients began getting vitamin C when Cameron judged them “untreatable” and their subsequent survival was compared to that of the control patients from the time they had been labeled “untreatable.”
If the two groups were comparable, the average time from the initial diagnosis to “untreatable” status should be similar for both groups. But they were not. Hence Cameron’s patients had been labeled untreatable earlier in the course of their disease and would therefore be expected to live longer, also more than 20% of the patients in the control group had died within a few days of being labeled untreatable, whereas none of Cameron’s patients had died. This, too, suggested that Cameron’s patients had had less advanced disease when they were labeled untreatable…..’
As I’ve said if you are unfortunate enough to be diagnosed with cancer feel free to try alternative methods, I’ll stick with proven therapies.
Apologies for my poor typing this morning phones are shite to type upon.
Your evidence is an article written by Shaun Holt from Tauranga and one Medical Doctor… C’mon HS, surely you can do better than that?
Firstly William D. DeWys “research” does not seem to be available online? Secondly he makes a number of unfounded statements that are easily refuted.
Here’s how the selection process was undertaken:
The original group of matched controls was selected by senior members of the Medical Records Staff in Vale of Leven Hospital, who were asked to produce records of 10 patients for each ascorbate-treated patient matched as to sex, age (to within 5 yr), and tumor type (site of the primary cancer and histological type), without regard as to whether or not death had occurred. The individual case records were then examined by a physician employed for this purpose, Frances Meuli, who first determined the date of untreatability by such conventional standards as the establishment of inoperability at laparotomy, the abandonment of any definitive form of anti-cancer treatment, or the date of admission terminal nursing care and then calculated the survival time from that date until the factually recorded date of death. In carrying out her survey, Meuli was unaware of the survival times of the 100 ascorbate-treated test patients. In order to avoid possible bias, we did not supervise her work closely or attempt to refine it.
Looks like your doctor DeWys is full of shit HS. It would really help the debate if you actually bothered to read the research instead of regurgitating what is obviously false information… But I guess I’m asking for too much?
Pauling however, tended to get more and more bizarre in his claims regarding the utility of Vitamin C. As I’ve said previously if you are unfortunate enough to ever suffer from cancer I’d recommend starting with proven inteventions rather than the like of high dose iv Vitamin C.
DeWys is clearly full of shit HS. The paragraph I’ve quoted from Pauling and Cameron’s reevaluation study totally contradicts what he has said. DeWys claims that it was Linus Pauling himself who chose the test subjects when it was in fact senior members of the Medical Records Staff in Vale of Leven Hospital.
It really comes down to who has a reason to lie… I’ve provided a reason why the pharmaceutical industry would promote false information. I ask again… Why would Pauling and Cameron and all the other scientists and researchers who have shown high doses of Vitamin C can treat cancer lie?
As I’ve said previously if you are unfortunate…
Why do you keep repeating yourself like a broken record HS? This is becoming tedious! Let me know if you can provide some actual evidence that Vitamin C doesn’t work to treat cancer. Until then I think we should just agree to disagree.
Todd, to suggest that this is some cover up by pharmaceutical suppliers is bizarre – Vit C is available from many alternative medical practitioners here and overseas who offer it alone or along with other therapies to persons who are mistrusting of standard treatment or who have no other options. It is not used for the treatment of cancer by the vast majority of oncologists due to there being no compelling data that is efficacious.
I repeat myself as you do not seem to understand that there is no robust evidence to support the use of Vit C in the treatment of cancer and it is wisest to defer to the experts in the field of medical, and radiation oncology for treatment options which have been the subject of more robust scientific study.
Regarding Pauling’s motives I do note that from histories online The Linus Pauling Institute of Science and Medicine was founded in 1973 and operated under that name until 1995 [20]. The institute was dedicated to “orthomolecular medicine.” For many years, its largest corporate donor was Hoffmann-La Roche, the pharmaceutical giant that produces most of the world’s vitamin C. Many of the institute’s fundraising brochures contained questionable information. During the 1980s, for example, they falsely stated that no significant progress had been made in cancer treatment during the previous twenty years.
So you’ve discredited double Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling by providing information from a very dubious website. How do you propose to discredit Murata A, Morishige F, Yamaguchi H, N. H. Riordan, H. D. Riordan, X. Meng, Y. LI and J. A. Jackson, who are just a few of the researchers and scientists that found similar results?
You’re suggesting that there’s some sort of worldwide conspiracy to provide false information about Vitamin C so that manufacturers can sell more. Just to let you know, Acorbate can be purchased for as little as $1 per kg and even less in larger quantities.
In comparison, here’s a breakdown of what cancer treatment costs in the US:
Researchers used data from the Surveillance, Epidemiology, and End-Results (SEER) Medicare database to examine the costs of initial cancer treatments in 306,709 breast, colorectal, lung and prostate cancer patients over the age of 65. These treatments included surgery, chemotherapy, radiation and other hospitalization.
Over the ten-year period studied, the average cost of breast cancer treatment increased $4,189 to $20,964. The average cost of treating prostate cancer increased $5,435 to $41,134, while the average cost of lung cancer treatment went up $7,139 to $39,891.
Nobody is going to get rich from using Vitamin C to treat cancer HS. Which makes the latest twist to your now completely defunct argument laughable!
Not at all, Only Paulings views on cancer and Vitamin C/orthmolecular medicine have been discredited which in his defense he was starting to get somewhat senile towards the end of his life so one cannot really level any serious accusations at him, the vast majority of his scientific work was magnificent this can be said of many famous scientists and even several nobel laureates – I don’t think any of them would claim that every theory they had ever promulgated was correct.
I’m not suggesting there’s any sort of worldwide conspiracy at all, that appears to be your position in relation to the unwillingness of health professionals in particular those in the area of oncology to utilise Vitamin C to treat cancer, my position is that it is not used by health professionals in this setting as it has no utility.
Yes I do realise ascorbate is cheap as are many if not most APIs, this does not mean the actually finished product can be provided to patients cheaply and indeed even if they can be provided to patients cheaply there are unscrupulous individuals such as our own infamous Milan Brych who made fortunes from quackery.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to suggest in relation to cancer costs in the US ?
I cannot find any verifiable information to show that Linus Pauling suffered from senility. You’re not making shit up again are you HS? This is the usual baseless accusations leveled against researchers by people who don’t like the results and have a vested interest in keeping the status quo.
The US cancer treatment costs from 2005 are to show the difference between conventional and alternative treatment using Acorbate. As clearly stated, nobody is going to get rich by using Vitamin C to treat Cancer, and that’s one of the reasons it’s not being utilized. There is therefore no financial reason to promote false information to promote Vitamin C as you believe. You must be suffering a bit of senility yourself if you didn’t understand that HS.
Your contention that Acorbate needs to have extensive changes made so it can be utilized is obviously incorect! The studies show that Acorbate in its present form is effective at treating cancer if administered at high enough doses intravenously and orally.
I’m not suggesting there’s any sort of worldwide conspiracy at all.
Then how do you explain the researchers and scientists listed above having the same results as Linus Pauling’s study if it’s not a conspiracy between them?
In contrast, I think it is a deplorable conspiracy to not generally use a cheap and effective alternative medication to treat a disease that one in three Kiwis will suffer from. Clearly there’s a profit motive to repressing an inexpensive medication and pharmaceutical companies are not beyond reproach. For instance Glaxo Smith and Kline was recently fined $3 billion for putting peoples lives in danger purely to make money. That criminal proceeding was an isolated case lost in a sea of medical corruption.
Whether you like it or not HS, there is robust evidence that shows categorically that high doses of Vitamin C is effective at treating cancer. I’ve provided some of this information here to which you’ve not adequately responded. That’s because there’s far more scientific research that shows Vitamin C is an effective treatment than says it isn’t.
Therefore there is a consensus amongst scientists that it works… It just needs to be recognized by medical practitioners, who unfortunately are in the pocket of big pharmaceutical companies. Until their profit motive to use inferior and more expensive medications is addressed, cancer patients will continue to not have ready access to an a proven and inexpensive treatment that works.
You still have not linked to DeWys’ “research” that apparently discredits the Reevaluation of prolongation of survival times in terminal human cancer? Making claims that are unverifiable is what quackery is all about. But feel free to keep quacking if you like HS.
There’s really little point in trying to educate you on the methodologies and rationale supported by vast amounts of reputable, repeatable and robust clinical research for treating the various types of cancers they way we do and the various costs associated with either surgery, radiation and chemotherapy or combinations of all three as you appear set in your mind set that it’s all a massive conspiracy by company/s and person’s unknown who’ve duped the medical profession, regulators and scientists into treating cancer patients how we do rather than with Vitamin C.
It’s not odd at all to believe that the majority of studies into using Vitamin C to treat cancer are correct. If people just accepted the status quo as it is, we would never have any progress at all.
I don’t know why you bother to continue this debate with Higher Than a Kite, for despite having provided it with plenty of reasoned argument, AND evidence it continues to ignore you and bang on about “there being no evidence” when both you and myself provided substantial evidence that it has been an effective treatment. (the evidence I provided indicated that it would be worth further investigation).
Science would have gotten nowhere if the view prevailed that anything that hasn’t been fully scientifically evaluated doesn’t exist and is of no effect.
That it is now deemed only those with money are allowed the privilege to decide what gets scientifically evaluated or not, and that that decision is left to their poor imaginations as to what will lead to profit and what won’t, then methinks this situation is going to lead us to less and less discoveries.
BL and Todd are either of you are qualified cancer specialists, clinicians of any sort or do you have science background ?
The evidence that Vitamin C has any utility in the treatment of cancer has not been demonstrated in any useful manner the interventions which are used in the treatment of cancer have been proven useful in modern blinded trials which is why those treating patients with cancer utilise these proven interventions and continue to treat and trial new interventions which may improve patient outcomes this has lead to major advances in the outcomes of patients with many tumour types over the last several decades
“Recent clinical evidence, however, indicates that the role of ascorbate in cancer treatment should be examined anew …Despite inconsistencies, some in vitro studies showed that ascorbate killed cancer cells, although mechanisms and physiologic relevance were unclear “
No well designed in vivo studies have shown a benefit of vitamin c in the treatment of cancer.
The thing that irked me about the comment by TJ was…
‘The reason the medical profession don’t recognize such studies is because cancer is a multi million dollar business that would not be anywhere near as profitable if people were encouraged to us a cheap and readily available treatment such as Vitamin C.’
To suggest that oncologists only utilise surgery, radiotherapy and chemotherapy to treat cancer due to some profit motive is offensive.
To suggest that oncologists only utilise surgery, radiotherapy and chemotherapy to treat cancer due to some profit motive is offensive.
Agreed. They utilise those methods because its the only options those practitioners are exposed to in their training and the only options they are given in a hospital setting.
The filtering happens faraway at the business case level in the big pharma and medical device corporates. There is nothing patentable or profitable about IV Vit C so no surprise it goes no where.
Yes that’s obviously the reason, all clinicians, regulatory authorities, researchers, patient advocacy groups and QANGOS such as PHARMAC have been duped.
PS I am being sarcastic as this is about as useful as debating 9/11 with Eve.
hs – don’t be a dick. I stated very clearly that the decisions are made BEFORE it gets to PHARMAC or any front line clinicians. Don’t go intellectually blind on me all of a sudden and refuse to think by hiding behind the Twin Towers.
You seem to be trying to say that pharmaceutical corporates don’t assess potential products for profitability before committing to their development, and that they don’t cull out all but the most financially promising treatment candidates/areas of health. Of course they do. They are profit driven private enterprises.
Its why we have a shitload ofexpensive drugs to deal with important health problems like Developed World Impotence and Developed World Obesity, and fuck all antibiotics for the 3rd world.
CV I’m not being a dick just frustrated that persons such as yourself continue to spread such inanity and false hope and then seek to accuse some dark motive and cover up as the obvious rationale as to why no one heeds your advice.
for your information the WHO via a number of pharmaceutical companies in india and the like supplies anti virals, anti biotics and other medical supplies into the third world at very reasonable pricing.
Similarly R&D in the pharmaceutical arena is carried out less and less by the huge pharmaceutical players as they are Dilbert like and more and more by very small researchers like those we have in Dunedin, Wellington and Auckland.
Phase 1 and 11 research has been and is being carried out with iv Vitamin C by laboratories under the auspices of the NCI in a number of tumour types with less than exciting results.
If it worked, Pharmac would demand it be used. Just like they demand the cheapest of any other drug be used, if mostly effective. This is the problem patients whose meds don’t relieve their disease face – Pharmac will not sign up to expensive drugs if there are, in their opinion, cheaper alternatives that suit most people. If there was evidence Vitamin C worked Pharmac would be all over it.
A case of watch this space if Vit C is proved useful.
There is an issue regarding what gets studied. I.e something may be effective, yet not so easily capitalized on therefore something that IS easier to capitalize on will be chosen over it.
Blue Leopard, I understand your issues with pharmaceutical corporations, and it is valid in a profit-driven health service, but I think you’ve missed the point entirely. Pharmac have been shown to be quite willing to dump big pharma and it’s take on research outcomes to save money. That’s Pharmac’s brief. Keep the population provided with the drugs required, but at the cheapest possible price. The Herceptin issue is a case in point. So is funding for advanced auto-immune disease suppressants.
Pharmac will also fund research if they think a drugs regime that big pharma doesn’t want will save money. Once again the Herceptin debate is a good example. Pharmac will not rule out vitamin C if it thinks there is a chance that it will be effective at a cheaper price than any other drug. And with Vitamin C, that would have to be about all of them (barring, maybe, methotrexate and similar very old chemotherapy drugs). It simply makes no sense that Pharmac would abandon this model to avoid using Vitamin C if it was effective.
Its good to here that about Pharmac, however it would appear that if the rigorous clinical trials have not been conducted, I suspect that Pharmac could not follow the course of action you are suggesting they do.
From what you say, however, hopefully when word finally gets to them of the following studies, they might fund the further clinical trials recommended on the matter:
Pharmacologic ascorbic acid concentrations selectively kill cancer cells: action as a pro-drug to deliver hydrogen peroxide to tissues:
Cystic Fybrosis barely understandable however scroll to ‘discussion’
“Several candidate molecules have been shown to be effective CFTR activators in vitro or in vivo (35); however, the majority of compounds that activate CFTR have additional pharmacological effects, whereas vitamin C is on the FDA’s list of substances generally recognized as safe, and mega-doses of vitamin C (up to 2.5 g/day) are well tolerated (33). Our study highlights the potential therapeutic use of vitamin C as a safe, nontoxic, and efficacious small molecule for the activation of CFTR-mediated Cl transport in epithelia.”
I do believe there are issues surrounding scientific study that can warp outcomes.
I provide a link about the issue which describes the summary of a report written by UCS (Union of Concerned Scientists)
One thing that they don’t mention, which I have seen conveyed regarding scientific study is that the required finance will often flow where the most profits are to be had (understandable self interest in the part of investors, however this can lead to some areas of knowledge lacking the investigation it deserves)
No Jackal, you have it all wrong. The Burden of Proof lies on someone making the positive claim i.e. Vitamin C is a viable cancer treatment. I didn’t make that claim, you and Penny have therefore the Burden on Proof is on you.
Specifically that ‘Under Attack section which lists an example of the burden of proof fallacy as thus,
“I don’t need to prove my claim – you must proof it is false”.
Hence your comment:
“…the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that Vitamin C is not an effective cancer treatment…”
is logically invalid.
No Jackal, you have it all wrong. The Burden of Proof lies on someone making the positive claim i.e. Vitamin C is a viable cancer treatment. I didn’t make that claim, you and Penny have therefore the Burden on Proof is on you.
Those are peer reviewed studies. Three studies saying Vitamin C works to treat cancer compared to your none saying it doesn’t work… Are you guys being stupid on purpose?
Fisi anal Not true when it comes to this disease Alan Smith was in a coma for along time and everything they threw at him antibiotics etc did not work however after a short spell on high dose vitamin C he recovered miraculously Research in this area has not been carried out to completely dismiss it would be foolish.
Some of the inaudible parts of the speech in the press release would look just as legit if they were redactions. eg “we will be doing it in (inaudible) but we hope (inaudible) look after its own security.” Hmmm..?
actually, there is a new potential warlord in town, so chew on those noodles
Christchurch: It was cold, and the servants and officials stood around a fire they had made to keep warm. Peter also was standing with them, warming himself.
As Simon Peter stood warming him-self, he was asked, “You are not one of his disciples, are you?
He denied it, saying, “I am not.”
“What is truth?” Pilate asked.
(u could not make this stuff up)
🙂
I hope that, on top of all the concern shown about child poverty, people will not have missed the dismal news of the rise in youth suicide (including at least one preteen child). Since the last quarter, suicides of those aged between 20 and 24 have risen from 11.4% to 13.5%; Ages between 15 and 19 have risen from from 25.5% to 27.5%.
There will be a number of causes, largely on account of government “policies”, but 28% of the dead were unemployed, many depressed. Back in May, our youth unemployment had the 19th highest rate in OECD countries. Co-founder of the Foundation for Youth Development (FYD), Graeme Dingle, says “Youth unemployment is a growing issue and one that will have a huge impact on the country. If it is left to fester the cost is simply unaffordable in the long run.””
Key boasts today of devoting 62 million dollars to problems of youth, but fails to mention this is to cover a four year period.
Many will be tempted to think, “well, these figures reflect only upon Maori, so what?” Maori and Pakeha are all together citizens of Aotearoa/New Zealand, suicides (whatever the cause) are not to be fixed upon any one race.
We have no idea, of course, of the huge number of attempted and unsuccessful suicides, hospitalised or covered up. How many were due to undue risks, for example in the road toll? Countless people are engaging in “suicidal living patterns”.
Very many human beings have little, if any, conscience or compassion, we have to accept that this is the fact. But, at the least, people might be bothered for basic economical reasons.
The experts in this field will have some sort of formula with which to get a rough idea of failed attempts v “successful” attempts. I have no idea where you would find this for NZ, unfortunately.
A WHO study estimates in Cananda 80-90% of suicide attempts fail.
Dr Terry wrote ” Since the last quarter, suicides of those aged between 20 and 24 have risen from 11.4% to 13.5%; Ages between 15 and 19 have risen from from 25.5% to 27.5%. ”
I dont understand these figures. 25-27% of those aged 15-19 commit suicide?
Yes it sounds shockingly high to say that almost one third of particular group are suicidal. Maybe they are. Otherwise the percentage increase relates to the figure of the period before, though in this case not supplied, i.e. let’s says 10 people died last year, and this year 12 or 13 people died; an increase on 10 by 27.5%
Clashman. For better accuracy, I suggest you research on Google. Sorry if my figures are misleading. I want only to point very clearly to the seriousness of the situation. What you quote from a Canadian source is probably fairly accurate for our society too.
From a quick look here; http://socialreport.msd.govt.nz/health/suicide.html it seems the figures should be per 100,000, not percentages.
That makes alot more sense to me.
I’m certainly not trying to diminish the seriousness of the situation, I just couldn’t get my head around the figuresquoted.
From memory, the latest coroner release might have been saying that 27% of those who committed suicide were aged 15-19.
But the point is valid – the government might hand-wring when attention is paid to the issue, but they sure won’t bother addressing any of the contributing factors (not solely economic, not solely counselling availability or bullying – it’s a very complex issue). I’m pretty sure this government will avoid 9 out of 10 of any identified possible contributing solutions, choosing only the least expensive tenth. But they’ll announce it 9 ties.
Here’s erstwhile suicide advocate Michael Laws this morning on Radio Live, putting on his deadly serious low voice, pretending to be compassionate and concerned about teen suicide: “I sometimes wonder if we shouldn’t show the faces of the hanging corpses.”
The woman caller on the other end of the line, obviously horrified, gasped, “Oh NO.”
And Family First, as part of it’s Marriage campaign, scores an own goal by trying to mock and satirise the high level of suicide amongst young LGBT people:
Family First is being slammed for “making light of youth suicide in New Zealand” within a blog post which compares the fight for marriage equality to rugby and soccer.
Many will be tempted to think, “well, these figures reflect only upon Maori, so what?
Excuse me, WTF? It’s not only Maori, never has been and never will be…
The child who killed himself was non-Maori, and while there are proportionally fewer unemployed white people than there are unemployed Maori, there are still a huge number of unemployed white people.
It’s very unhelpful to make out that it’s all about Maori… as it’s equally unhelpful to say it’s all about yoof. To use a phrase that makes my teeth ache but it nevertheless true – older, white unemployed people, and older white people who kill themselves, are ‘doubly invisible’, as for various reasons the media really don’t get too exercised about white unemployed people, or non-yoof suicides. Disclosure: A family member, a white man in his forties committed suicide 8 years ago, and I was stunned. The media, awareness groups etc had me convinced that a 40-something suiciding was so unlikely as to be impossible…
The point is, our ability to broadcast was entirely dependent on poorly-programmed bots. And once those bots had made their incorrect decision, there was absolutely nothing we could do to restart the signal, as it were. In case anyone still believes that copyright rules can’t stop free speech or snuff out a community, the automated censorship of the Hugo Awards is a case in point.
Robots killed our legitimate broadcast. Welcome to the present.
Someone should ask John Key about his former mates are up to …
“Even as Greece desperately tries to avoid defaulting on its debt, American companies are preparing for what was once unthinkable: that Greece could soon be forced to leave the euro zone.
Bank of America Merrill Lynch has looked into filling trucks with cash and sending them over the Greek border so clients can continue to pay local employees and suppliers in the event money is unavailable.”
Aye. How long before the local entrepreneur is the one who ‘got ahead’ enough to afford an entire bottle of cooking oil that can then on-sold for a profit in ‘single meal worth’ polythene sachets?
Okay. Perhaps quite some way off.
But did you notice when they began selling 400g blocks of butter in competition with the 500g blocks at the ‘old’ 500g price? Or those 750g blocks of cheese that were all of a sudden available beside the 1 kg blocks at a price comparable with the ‘old’ 1 kg price? Or what about the air pumped into chocolate bars that kept the size and price (but not the weight) the same? Or how about charity shops rebranding as retail outlets?
There was only one explanation: equating marginal cost and marginal revenue couldn’t be profit-maximizing behavior.
No, it’s not. It’s actually profit minimising behaviour. It’s the one I like to twit neo-classical economists with because it uses their own theory to prove that profit is a dead weight loss.
As Steve Keen says in his book, profit maximising firms (both monopoly and competition) will produce the same output. This leaves the firm in a competitive market with increased market share as the only option to increase profit and they can only do that if they lower the selling price which must lower profits for that firm. As each competitive firm will be doing the same thing the end result must, logically, be where marginal cost and marginal revenue are equal resulting in both the maximum output and minimum profit – in theory.
At that point the firm should be able to maintain itself (income = costs) and the people working there but it won’t be paying out dividends to shareholders. Thus cost cutting usually comes in so that profitability and dividends can be returned resulting, most likely, in the redundancies of workers and a decline in product going to market pushing prices and profits back up again. Unfortunately, the cost cutting has also resulted in a decrease in market demand from the redundancies. After that, it gets complicated…
There are two things that I take from this:
1.) For numerous sectors a well regulated and government owned monopoly will be the better option than competition as competition adds it’s own costs (unnecessary duplication and an even more convoluted regulatory system for starters) that society can do without. This seems especially true of natural monopolies such as telecommunications and power.
2.) Competition isn’t there to lower prices as the neo-classicals believe but to lower profits but it doesn’t work because A) we don’t have a perfectly competitive market B) corruption becomes an accepted means to maintain profits (i.e. collusion/cartel behaviour and cronyism) C) speculation for easy and high profits in the financial system replaces actually making stuff (especially in places where the market is saturated) and D) Firms are trying to maximise profit and not minimise it.
This all results in a few mega corporations ruling the market with small companies being kept out and the dead weight loss of profit still hurting everybody.
in another time they might have been called robber barons.
now they are just robbers.
stealing from ALL THE PEOPLE TO Pay for heka paratai and john banks juvenile fantasies of omnipotence.
In 1994, I was the editor for an issue of Planet magazine focused on cannabis, its culture and the prospects for the end of its prohibition. Part of that issue was an interview with 'Ringo', an experienced cannabis dealer.I recently posted my essay from that issue, and I figured it ...
Dr Helen Waite, sports sociologist and former elite athlete, on the invasion of women’s sport by men and the anti-scientific and misogynist ideology used to rationalise it. ...
As Brexit comes to a grisly conclusion (perhaps) people on all sides are saying intemperate and uwise things. Some, like the Daly Mail, have been doing it for years.People as normally level headed as Jon Lansman are calling for automatic deselection of MPs who vote against a (likely) Labour three ...
I've got one source saying more Labour MPs than expected are mulling whether to vote for the deal - including names who were not on the letter to Juncker and Tusk— Emilio Casalicchio (@e_casalicchio) 17 October 2019 I've compiled a list of possible reasons why Labour ...
On Wednesday, the government was loudly telling us that it needed to legislate to allow it to impose "control orders" - effectively a parole regime, but imposed without charge, prosecution, conviction or real evidence - on suspected terrorists because they couldn't be prosecuted for their supposed crimes. Today, it turns ...
On Monday, the Hit and Run inquiry heard from NZDF's former director of special operations, who claimed that the defence Minister knew everything about the Operation Burnham raid. Today, the inquiry heard from that (former) Minister - and it turns out that he didn't know nearly as much as NZDF ...
Yoga gurus and cult leaders – I’ve seen a few. Two weeks ago, I unknowingly joined an alleged new-age cult at the Kāpiti coast, together with a giant kraken and some neatly dressed pensioners who would make any book club proud.They were among the two hundred people of all ages ...
The last decade has seen a trend of increasing weapons availability to police. Assault rifles. Tasers on every hip. Guns in cars. And following the march 15 massacre, pistols on every hip, all over the country. At the same time, its also seen an increase in the abuse of force: ...
In the last couple of weeks, I’ve been busy preparing for our summer paper on Science Communication. Looking for something amusing about ‘risk’ in science, I came across this neat xkcd.com cartoon about why so many people come knocking on my door (or phoning me, or emailing me) desperately wanting ...
by John Edmundson The International Socialist Organisation (ISO) have recently reposted a February article, by Romany Tasker-Poland, explaining ISO’s position in the “trans rights” debate. It is available on their website and on their Facebook Page. The article sets out to explain why “socialists support trans rights”. It reads more ...
"Auckland City Mission: 10% of Kiwis experiencing food insecurity", RNZ, 16 October 2019:About half a million people are experiencing food insecurity, according to new research from the Auckland City Mission. Food insecurity, or food poverty, is defined as not having enough appropriate food. The City Mission said over the last ...
Media Statement for Immediate Release 16th October 2019 “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers Despite comments from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers—Herald Newspaper Tuesday Oct 15th–there is very little evidence ...
Would You Buy A Used Propaganda Video From This Man? Bridges and the National Party’s strategists have discovered that the ideas and attitudes considered acceptable by today’s editors and journalists are no longer enforceable. The rise and rise of the Internet and the social media platforms it spawned means that ...
There is plenty of evidence of the way the business mentality has permeated every level of society since the recrudescence of market liberalism 35 years ago. You only need to think of how citizens in need of help from their government, their state, their country, are now routinely described as ...
John MacCormickOver the last 40 years, New Zealanders – and people in other countries – have experienced big changes in the jobs they do and where they live and work. These changes include: a decline in manufacturing jobs an increase in jobs in ‘information-intensive’ industries (which are better paid ...
Nick Wilson, Leah Grout, Mereana Wilson, Anja Mizdrak, Phil Shoemack, Michael BakerProtecting waterways has the benefits of: (1) protecting water from hazardous microbes; (2) minimising cancer risk and other problems from nitrates in water; (3) avoiding algal blooms that are hazardous to health; (4) protecting mahinga kai uses (cultural ...
by The Council of Disobedient Women In a press release today Massey University announced it has decided to rebrand and reorientate after struggling to be a University for grown-ups. For some time the University has wanted to be a safe play space for wee-woke-misogynists who have been really badly triggered ...
After a brief dalliance with 'hard Revoke' it looks like the Lib Dems are changing ground on on Brexit, with leader Jo Swinson reverting to calling for a second referendum on Johnson's deal.The party has tabled an amendment to the Queen’s speech requesting that any deal brought back from Brussels ...
The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change.If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nzThere is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated. However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
“There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan. They demanded a 50% pay rise. A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change.If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nzWhy do people still think climate change isn’t real?David ...
Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives. So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
by Don Franks The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
by The Council of Disobedient Women Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention. Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand. Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme. Well, sort ...
The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad. Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
by Nick Rogers The debate around the meaning of sex and gender made an appearance at this year’s British Labour Party conference in Brighton. Women’s Place UK – an organisation that questions the demand that biological males who self-identify as woman should have access to women’s spaces, to all-women shortlists, ...
Yesterday I went down to Wellington to participate in the Extinction Rebellion protest. Its part of the latest global wave of XR actions, with actions happening all over the world. Some of those protests are massively disruptive: in Canada, XR is blocking major bridges, stopping people from getting to work. ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters is predicting a hard Brexit for the United Kingdom, as he believes British Prime Minister Boris Johnson won’t be able to negotiate terms before the October 30 deadline. The Minister, who was one of the first to publicly come out and predict British voters would leave ...
Speaking at the Council of Trade Unions' (CTU) biennial conference, New Zealand First leader Winston Peters told unionists that any future attacks on the Government won't work. "Now, we are being attacked by the union movement in this country. You can have your views but I'm here to say standing ...
We want every New Zealander to be happy, safe, and healthy. To do this, we need to support strong, safe communities, and a robust and efficient health system. ...
Defence Minister Ron Mark has used his powers to overrule a noise complaint ruling against Whenuapai airbase on the grounds of "national security". The Environment Court last month released a ruling in favour of a private developer, declaring the Auckland airbase had to comply with noise restrictions when it performs ...
New Zealand First leader Winston Peters has opened fire against "unreconstructed morons" after NZ First MP Shane Jones was photographed on holiday holding an AR-15 rifle. Mr Peters is defending Mr Jones, telling Magic Talk host Peter Williams that his MP was just having fun "like most people do". "The ...
New Zealand First Deputy Leader and Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau was in attendance during the morning blessing of the Rotorua Lakefront development project. Around 60 people gathered on the shores of Lake Rotorua, including city mayor Steve Chadwick and deputy Dave Donaldson. The Lakefront development is a ...
Forestry Minister Shane Jones is considering reining in on conversions of farmland to forestry, and also issued a warning to foreign-owned forestry companies that make up nearly 75 per cent of the industry. He said too many foreign companies had not provided enough access for domestic processors to get timber. ...
Speaking to Radio NZ, New Zealand First leader Winston Peters said the tightening of the parental category visa is a direct result of the Party’s coalition negotiations with the Labour Party. He said the new changes switch the financial onus from the parent moving to New Zealand to the child ...
The Coalition Government is set to cut red tape in the building and construction sector in an effort to allow more houses to be built, including prefabricated houses. The changes will enable the mass factory production of "high quality" buildings, slash the likely number of building inspections for factory produced ...
Since coming into Government, we’ve worked hard to tackle homelessness and make sure everyone has a warm, dry home. And today, on World Homeless Day, we want to report back and update you on our progress so far. ...
New Zealand First leader Winston Peters has hit back at National Party leader Simon Bridges who criticized the Coalition Government’s approach to crime, and said that the latter isn't credible in his attack on the Government over gang recruitment. "We've got as massive drug problem in this country. It is ...
New Zealand Mānuka honey exporters have welcomed an initiative by the Coalition Government to help secure the term “mānuka honey” to be used exclusively by Kiwi exporters, ensuring that our multimillion-dollar industry is protected. Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones had recently announced that a Provincial Growth Funding of $5.7 ...
Political commentator Mike Hosking has labelled New Zealand First leader Winston Peters as “the voice of reason in a government soft on drugs”, for the Party’s stance on drug testing at music festivals. “If common sense is worth a vote, Winston Peters is quids in,” Mr Hosking said. The Labour ...
Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau has announced Provincial Growth Funding to ensure work opportunities in Turangi and Whanganui, through its skills and employment programme, Te Ara Mahi. A fund of $500,000 will go to Rafting NZ in Turangi for a 16-week river guide training course to train ...
Treasury has shown that the Coalition Government has a $7.5 billion surplus, which is $4 billion higher than what was expected in the 2019 Budget unveiled last May. It is also $2 billion higher than the actual surplus unveiled this time last year, and at a size that has not ...
Official Information Act figures released to NZME show there were 350 assaults on officers in the year to the end of June, 79 more than the year before. The increase in attacks have sparked calls for more legal protection for first responders to be enacted. The assaults included officers being ...
“Nobody wants to see babies uplifted”, this was the pronouncement of Minister for Children Hon. Tracey Martin as her department, Oranga Tamariki, faces multiple inquiries into the number of babies being taken from their families. “But a baby can die with a single punch, “the Minister continued. “So sometimes, Oranga ...
We're making progress on tackling the long-term challenges: from homelessness, to strengthening border security, to bringing banking back New Zealand's small towns. ...
Associate Transport Minister Shane Jones has backed the ambitious plan to move Auckland’s port to Northport, at Whangarei harbour, which he says will be the “King Kong of infrastructure”. The plan is part of the recommendations of a six-person independent working group, which has recommended the Ports of Auckland be ...
A six-member independent working group selected the option of moving Auckland’s port to Northport, in Whangarei, ahead of other options. In what could be New Zealand’s most ambitious infrastructure project yet, a major expansion of the Marsden Point port could happen within 15 years. The project, officially called the “Upper ...
The final Electricity Price Review recommended prohibiting prompt payment discounts but allowing “reasonable” late fees. The findings of this review was welcomed by the Coalition Government, but they hope companies will follow through with its recommendations without regulations needed to be passed. Meridian Energy had already stopped prompt payment discounts, ...
Fletcher Tabuteau, Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF)through its skills and employment programme, Te Ara Mahi,will invest nearly $600,000 to ensure work opportunities for locals in Turangia and Whanganui, Parliamentary Under Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau announced today. “I’m pleased to announce the PGF ...
An export-led economy is one of New Zealand First’s key principles, and our commitment to achieving this is shown by the continuing skyrocketing demand for our beef and sheep meat exports. Beef + Lamb New Zealand's New Season Outlook 2019-20 report forecasts beef, lamb and mutton prices to lift from ...
Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones announced today in Gisborne an investment of $17.27m into bringing “world-leading” food-growing technology and the creation of more than 100 new jobs in the East Coast city. The funding comes from the Provincial Growth Fund, and included a $15 million loan to LeaderBrand, a ...
Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development More than 100 people in Tairāwhiti’s Tolaga Bay will benefit from two employment initiatives supported by the Provincial Growth Fund, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones and Employment Minister Willie Jackson announced today. “Tolaga Bay is an incredibly tight-knit community, but one in ...
Hon Shane Jones, Minister for Regional Economic Development The Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) is supporting Gisborne business Leaderbrand to produce salad vegetables year round and create more jobs in the Tairāwhiti region, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones announced today. “Our support for Leaderbrand will help them build large greenhouses ...
“Nobody wants to see babies uplifted”, this was the pronouncement of Minister for Children Hon. Tracey Martin as her department, Oranga Tamariki, faces multiple inquiries into the number of babies being taken from their families. “But a baby can die with a single punch, “the Minister continued. “So sometimes, Oranga ...
Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones has praised the promise by New Zealand’s biggest banks not to close any provincial branches while the Coalition Government trials regional banking hubs across the country. The Minister said the announce was the “first sign of hope for regional communities”, many of which have ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, New Zealand First Leader New Zealand First is proud to have delivered an upgrade of the SuperGold Card website and a new smartphone app, which will help unlock the full benefits of the SuperGold Card for 750,000 New Zealand seniors.Party Leader Rt Hon Winston Peters, ...
Delivering a key election campaign promise, New Zealand First is proud to have accomplished a long overdue upgrade of the SuperGold Card today. At an event in Auckland, New Zealand First leader Winston Peters joined Minister for Seniors Hon. Tracey Martin in unveiling the new website and smartphone app which ...
The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School. The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines. The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic. Environment ...
The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori, Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change. “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security. The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone. The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
Hon Minister Poto Williams Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration MEDIA STATEMENT Tuesday 15 October 2019 Feedback sought – Hagley Oval The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal about Hagley Oval. The proposal was developed by Regenerate Christchurch ...
Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
"Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League. Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
The construction sector is being freed up to allow more homes to be built more quickly as the Government cuts through some of the red tape of the Building Act. “Every New Zealander deserves a warm, dry, safe home and old inefficiencies in the Building Act make building slow and ...
Winston Peters says his party is a handbrake on bad ideas and a "supercharged turbo" for good ones - but will it be in the driver's seat come 2020? ...
Our former prime minister secured a meeting with Chinese premier Xi Jinping outside all normal diplomatic channels. Interest’s Jenée Tibshraeny asks what it means for New Zealand’s evolving relationship with the superpower.Former prime minister John Key secured a meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping this week without the involvement of ...
David Robiecontinues his three-part series about travelling in Iran. I stumbled on the scene by chance. Our host family in Iran’s second city Mashhad, a modern and beautiful metropolis that would comfortably fit in New Zealand’s entire population, was taking us on a drive to the outskirts to ...
New Zealand First leader Winston Peters has lashed out at the media, in particular, MediaWorks, just a day after the company announced it was selling off its television arm. ...
About a hundred disgruntled licensed gun owners have descended on the New Zealand First conference to tell the party leader Winston Peters that they feel like victims. ...
New Zealand First members will vote on a policy today that would allow businesses of all sizes to enforce 90-day trials when they employ people straight out of prison. ...
"Each time she held her lighter underneath the pipe and sucked the smoke into the back of her throat, the promise was there": a New Zealand tragedy by Alice Tawhai. ...
With the future of Mediaworks’ TV business hanging in the balance, Al Jazeera news presenter Kamahl Santamaria reflects on what the imperilled channel meant, and continues to mean, to him.I always liked the logo. The fresh bright colours, the nod to a koru in its shape, and just the fact ...
There are still many barriers preventing people from voting in local elections. Laura O’Connell Rapira proposes some social solutions.The Spinoff local election coverage is made possible thanks to The Spinoff Members. For more about becoming a member and supporting The Spinoff’s journalism click here.To vote in the local elections, I cast ...
What’s really stood out for me being back in Tokyo is the unique qualities of Japan’s spectators, writes Richard Light, professor of sport coaching at the University of Canterbury.The Rugby World Cup has thrown a global spotlight on Japan over recent weeks. Not just the rugby: the distinctive culture and ...
As the New Zealand First Party gathers for its annual conference, the question swirling in the year is how it can carve out a path to avoid electoral defeat in 2020, writes Jo Moir for RNZ. It’s not you, it’s me. It’s a familiar break up excuse that’s used ...
To the early intervention therapists, to the teachers, to the speech therapists, the occupational therapists, music therapists, diabetes nurses and all: you change the world.When I was married almost a decade ago we had the following reading at our wedding:You are holding up a ceilingwith both arms. It is very ...
The faces said it all. The smiles of the European leaders crowded round Boris after the Brexit deal was struck. The deal his opponents – no, pretty much everyone – said was impossible.So what’s in it? The detail is still opaque, but subject to gremlins in the fine print, ...
Iran attracts an onslaught of negative media in New Zealand and Western media. But is it fair or deserved? David Robie has spent several weeks travelling in the country on sabbatical and finds the media negativity far from the reality of the “most friendly” country he has ever visited ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra [embedded content]University of Canberra Deputy Vice-Chancellor Professor Leigh Sullivan discusses the week in politics with Michelle Grattan. They talk about Alan Jones accusing Prime Minister Scott Morrison of failing the immediate needs of drought-striken farmers, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anita Parbhakar-Fox, Senior Research Fellow in Geometallurgy/Applied Geochemistry, The University of Queensland Last month, scientists uncovered a mineral called Edscottite. Minerals are solid, naturally occurring substances that are not living, such as quartz or haematite. This new mineral was discovered after an ...
The Auckland-based collective talk origins, ambitions and making the rave accessible to everybody.Friendly Potential is an outfit that defies easy summary. They’re among the country’s most ambitious and prolific club promoters. In their almost five-years of operation, they’ve been responsible for the local debuts of electronic music icons including Detroit ...
Analysis: Two polls show support for Labour sliding, the government is accused of breaking another promise and the Greens's refusal to back a bill forces Labour to rely on National to get it through. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kiera Lindsey, University of Technology Sydney One spring morning in 1850, over 8,000 Sydneysiders marched through town to protest the resumption of transportation – the act of sending British criminals to Australia. It was the largest protest in Australia thus far, an ...
Two shareholders of failed insurance firm company CBL are leading a class action against the firm's former directors seeking compensation for financial losses. ...
Sam Brooks recaps the third episode of RuPaul’s Drag Race UK, and wonders why some of these queens don’t know how to sew.This episode asks, and sort of answers the main question that millions of people across the world: why would you come on Drag Race and not know how to sew?!There ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John M Clarke, Team Leader, Regional Projections, CSIRO Last month we lost Dr Penny Whetton – one of the world’s most respected climate scientists and a brilliant mentor to the next generation of researchers. Penny will also be remembered as a passionate ...
Ten moose were upended into the Dusky Sounds in 1910. Now, their descendants are getting their day in the sun.The climate crisis is affecting wildlife all over the country: rockhopper penguin populations are in drastic decline, tuatara eggs aren’t hatching females, and the ice walls keeping predators away from kea ...
Security footage of NZ First MP Clayton Mitchell being thrown out of a Tauranga bar looks unlikely to ever be aired - despite his leader Winston Peters promising a screening. ...
Amnesty International is concerned that Justice Minister Andrew Little's Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill could have the potential to undermine human rights in New Zealand. The Bill would give the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to ...
Expect the old campaigner Winston Peters to be at his belligerent best as he gears up for another election. He’s kept his party alive for 27 years and he shows no sign of quitting. The omens may be bleak—polls this week showed his party below the 5% threshold– but Peters ...
The National Party has agreed to take down any videos breaching the current rules around the use of parliamentary TV footage, as all parties try to reach consensus. ...
Recently the Health Promotion Agency released a report into hazardous drinking in New Zealand. The report shows that Māori who drink alcohol and live in deprived circumstances are less likely to have a harmful relationship with alcohol if they ...
Turkey-US joint-statement on military ops within Syria’s territory.The Turkish Embassy in New Zealand issued Evening Report this unabridged United States of America-Republic of Turkey joint-statement detailing what both sides agreed to regarding Turkey’s military operations within the so-called security zone within Syrian territory near Turkey’s southern border. It is ...
Fisheries Minister Stuart Nash didn’t mention what winners will receive, when he proudly called for entries for a new public award “to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector”. Nor did he mention the cost to taxpayers of this initiative. Point of Order’s checks with the website where more details have ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Fiona R Martin, Senior Lecturer in Convergent and Online Media, University of Sydney One of the basic tenets of the ABC Act is independence from government. Yet once again, in contravention to that principle, the federal government is trying to push through ...
A new poem by Auckland poet Lily Holloway.modernity to globalisationwhen I get there as still life and landscape and also portraitureseeking the cacti in small pots who dot the globeslices of pie offer up the vision after the sermonexpressing emotions without coherent narrative supportbecause no artist responded to this callemploying ...
The New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union is calling on Broadcasting Minister Kris Faafoi to rule out any taxpayer-funded purchase or bailout for Mediaworks’s channel Three. Taxpayers’ Union spokesman Louis Houlbrooke says, “For the last few months Mediaworks ...
The Police Commissioner's announcement that squadcars of officers with automatic rifles will patrol New Zealand's streets is dangerous and unnecessary, according to the criminal justice community organisation People Against Prisons Aotearoa. The ...
News broke this morning that Mediaworks is seeking to sell off, and even contemplating closing, its TV division. What might that mean for journalism?For journalism in New Zealand, the loss of Three’s TV division is a devastating blow. It is not yet known whether any of the news properties will ...
In our defence of our coalition Government policy on climate change, we fully support Government plan to use rail funding for rail infrastructure upgrades to promote use rail infrastructure for freight around NZ. ...
The billions of tonnes of plastic in our oceans isn’t going away any time soon, but innovative companies here and abroad are working together to find silver linings to this daunting problem.Fishing boats head out to sea and set their nets. They go back to shore. They head back out, ...
An EveningReport.nz investigation by Kevin ListKiwibank services. Image by Kevin List.Evening Report looks into the separation of Kiwibank from New Zealand Post, and considers the impact on the public’s access to banking services in their communities.Kiwibank. What’s going on? Kiwibank and New Zealand Post are in the ...
Local Government New Zealand today confirmed what many local election commentators have observed; that more of the voting public cast their ballots in favour of women candidates than ever before. ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington (this week we totted up the data a day early, on Wednesday, to let our books ed. ...
New Zealand's mineral manufacturing sector is expected to face some testing times, with softer prices, tighter margins and sluggish export markets. ...
Portugal has been painted by pro-cannabis legalisation groups as a model to follow. Yet just last month, the mayor of Porto contradicted his previous pro-harm reduction position and endorsed reintroducing criminal penalties for drug use in public spaces. ...
Chief of Defence Force Air Marshal Kevin Short announced today the inclusion of six Cook Island First World War soldiers in the New Zealand and Commonwealth War Graves Commission’s official rolls of honour. ...
The latest statistics released by the Health Promotion Agency showing a dramatic fall in the numbers of cigarettes being sold in supermarkets, service stations, and liquor stores are being welcomed by the Vaping Trade Association of New Zealand (VTANZ). ...
Editor’s Note: Here below is a list of the main issues currently under discussion in New Zealand and links to media coverage.New Zealand Parliament Buildings, Wellington, New Zealand.Today’s content by Dr Bryce Edwards.NZ First Thomas Coughlan (Stuff): Where to from here? How NZ First will win in ...
Aotearoa Climate Emergency (ACE), a climate change network, will host a conference in Wellington on 11 November (Armistice Day) to promote holding a Citizens Assembly in 2020, as a way of breaking the current political deadlock on treating climate ...
MediaWorks’ owners have called time after years of losses from its TV division. Sources say the company will announce it is for sale – if no buyers emerge, it will close within months.Three is facing the biggest crisis in its three decade history today, as its ownership will soon announce ...
Sam Brooks reviews Amazon Prime’s Modern Love, an anthology series based on the New York Times column dedicated to ‘love in all its forms’. A first date that ends up in the emergency room. A flagging marriage that finds new energy through tennis. The founder of a dating app who doesn’t ...
If we want to grow support for New Zealand’s aid, we need to get better at partnering with the ‘unlike-minded’ as well as the ‘like-minded’, and much better at telling people what we do with the money they give, says Josie Pagani, Executive ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Orsola De Marco, Astrophysicist , Macquarie University If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, send it to curiouskids@theconversation.edu.au.How are stars made? –Zali, age 8, Karkoo, South Australia. How are stars made? Well, stars are not ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gita Mishra, Professor of Life Course Epidemiology, Faculty of Medicine, The University of Queensland All women know to expect the time in life when their periods finish and they reach menopause. Many might even look forward to it. What many women don’t ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Paul McGreevy, Professor of Animal Behaviour and Animal Welfare Science, University of Sydney Since ancient times, horse behaviour, and the bond between horses and humans, has been a source of intrigue and fascination. The horse-lore that has accumulated over the centuries is ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rachael Wallis, Lecturer and Honorary Research Fellow, University of Southern Queensland A move to the country is often presented in popular culture as an idyllic life, a place where you can escape the pressures of the city. It’s in television shows such ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Richard Holden, Professor of Economics, UNSW The just-announced inquiry into Australia’s retirement income system ought to be anything but run-of-the-mill. Taking place 25 years after the introduction of compulsory superannuation, it provides an opportunity to either fix a broken system, or discard ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Allan McCay, Law Lecturer, University of Sydney The rise of artificial intelligence has led to widespread concern about the role of humans in the workplaces of the future. Indeed, Israeli historian, futurist and publishing sensation Yuval Noah Harari warns in his most ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jen Saunders, Phd candidate, University of Wollongong Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander readers are advised this article contains images and names of deceased people. You leave Sydney and head for holidays on the South Coast. You plan to catch a quick surf, ...
Good morning, and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Clayton Mitchell denies accusations around a night out, food insecurity on the rise, and UK PM Boris Johnson secures deal with dubious prospects.NZ First MP Clayton Mitchell has got himself in a spot of late night bother in a Tauranga ...
As the rugby world wrestles with the new reality that players can, and will, be dismissed for accidental contact with an opponent’s head it's worth pondering the fate of three All Blacks not selected for the Ireland quarterfinal. ...
A new exhibition in Raetihi offers a rare opportunity to see early, colonialism-focused works by Wellington artist Barbara Strathdee, writes Pat Baskett. ...
Italy's Ambassador to New Zealand Fabrizio Marcelli responds to Newsroom stories - and The Detail podcasts - questioning the price of imported tinned tomatoes in light of reports of slave labour in the industry in his home country. ...
A measles outbreak in Samoa suspected to be responsible for the death of a one-year-old was “inevitable”, according to an expert who thinks NZ could have prevented it. ...
The big shock of the results in the weekend’s local elections was the unseating of Justin Lester as Wellington mayor. We invited him to pen a sort-of-valedictory.My three years as the mayor of Wellington ended on Sunday and I will forever remain grateful for the experience.I’m also acutely aware of ...
We review the entire country and culture of New Zealand, one thing at a time. Today, Alex Braae reviews a night spent on the Intercity overnight sleeper bus getting from Wellington to Auckland.The most important thing to understand about long haul bus travel is that it’s all about getting exactly ...
Open mike 04/09/2012 
In 1994, I was the editor for an issue of Planet magazine focused on cannabis, its culture and the prospects for the end of its prohibition. Part of that issue was an interview with 'Ringo', an experienced cannabis dealer.I recently posted my essay from that issue, and I figured it ...10 hours ago
As Brexit comes to a grisly conclusion (perhaps) people on all sides are saying intemperate and uwise things. Some, like the Daly Mail, have been doing it for years.People as normally level headed as Jon Lansman are calling for automatic deselection of MPs who vote against a (likely) Labour three ...13 hours ago
On Wednesday, the government was loudly telling us that it needed to legislate to allow it to impose "control orders" - effectively a parole regime, but imposed without charge, prosecution, conviction or real evidence - on suspected terrorists because they couldn't be prosecuted for their supposed crimes. Today, it turns ...1 day ago
In the last couple of weeks, I’ve been busy preparing for our summer paper on Science Communication. Looking for something amusing about ‘risk’ in science, I came across this neat xkcd.com cartoon about why so many people come knocking on my door (or phoning me, or emailing me) desperately wanting ...2 days ago
Media Statement for Immediate Release 16th October 2019 “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers Despite comments from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers—Herald Newspaper Tuesday Oct 15th–there is very little evidence ...3 days ago
Would You Buy A Used Propaganda Video From This Man? Bridges and the National Party’s strategists have discovered that the ideas and attitudes considered acceptable by today’s editors and journalists are no longer enforceable. The rise and rise of the Internet and the social media platforms it spawned means that ...3 days ago
Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...4 days ago
Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...4 days ago
COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...4 days ago
More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...1 week ago
“There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...1 week ago
We're rebuilding our hospitals, protecting our oceans, and taking mental health seriously. ...1 day ago
Foreign Minister Winston Peters is predicting a hard Brexit for the United Kingdom, as he believes British Prime Minister Boris Johnson won’t be able to negotiate terms before the October 30 deadline. The Minister, who was one of the first to publicly come out and predict British voters would leave ...3 days ago
The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...1 day ago
Winston Peters says his party is a handbrake on bad ideas and a "supercharged turbo" for good ones - but will it be in the driver's seat come 2020? ...8 hours ago
Our former prime minister secured a meeting with Chinese premier Xi Jinping outside all normal diplomatic channels. Interest’s Jenée Tibshraeny asks what it means for New Zealand’s evolving relationship with the superpower.Former prime minister John Key secured a meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping this week without the involvement of ...9 hours ago
David Robie continues his three-part series about travelling in Iran. I stumbled on the scene by chance. Our host family in Iran’s second city Mashhad, a modern and beautiful metropolis that would comfortably fit in New Zealand’s entire population, was taking us on a drive to the outskirts to ...10 hours ago
New Zealand First leader Winston Peters has lashed out at the media, in particular, MediaWorks, just a day after the company announced it was selling off its television arm. ...10 hours ago
The prospect of ISIS fighters returning home to New Zealand is becoming more likely by the day. ...14 hours ago
"Each time she held her lighter underneath the pipe and sucked the smoke into the back of her throat, the promise was there": a New Zealand tragedy by Alice Tawhai. ...19 hours ago
A new law targeting potential returning terrorists like Mark Taylor raises questions about human rights and whether the bill is being rushed. ...1 day ago
Two shareholders of failed insurance firm company CBL are leading a class action against the firm's former directors seeking compensation for financial losses. ...1 day ago
Politicians come crawling back after the holidays to repair some 'bad optics'. James Elliott pulls no punches in his news of the week. ...2 days ago
New Zealand's mineral manufacturing sector is expected to face some testing times, with softer prices, tighter margins and sluggish export markets. ...2 days ago
Environmental groups are urging the government to crack down on commercial industries whose activities are harming the marine environment. ...2 days ago
Struggling media company MediaWorks is putting its TV business Three on the sale block, after axing and scaling back shows. ...2 days ago
As the rugby world wrestles with the new reality that players can, and will, be dismissed for accidental contact with an opponent’s head it's worth pondering the fate of three All Blacks not selected for the Ireland quarterfinal. ...2 days ago
This week's biggest-selling NZ books, as recorded by the Nielsen BookScan NZ bestseller list and described by Steve Braunias. ...2 days ago
A new exhibition in Raetihi offers a rare opportunity to see early, colonialism-focused works by Wellington artist Barbara Strathdee, writes Pat Baskett. ...2 days ago
Italy's Ambassador to New Zealand Fabrizio Marcelli responds to Newsroom stories - and The Detail podcasts - questioning the price of imported tinned tomatoes in light of reports of slave labour in the industry in his home country. ...2 days ago
A measles outbreak in Samoa suspected to be responsible for the death of a one-year-old was “inevitable”, according to an expert who thinks NZ could have prevented it. ...2 days ago
Plans for Facebook’s proposed “stablecoin”, Libra, appear to be unraveling as awareness about its adverse effects grows. ...2 days ago
Explosives were used to blast a millions-of-years-old rock overhang in a national park. ...2 days ago
Medical issues, party leaks and a surprise resignation have taken their toll - but Winston Peters argues his party is as strong as ever. ...2 days ago
OK so yesterday showed Key at his Crosby Textor PR directed best.
He had to delay the sale of the power company shares. Rio Tinto’s belligerent money grabbing stance made a delay inevitable. The threat to the electricity wholesale market was far too high.
So did Key acknowledge this? No he blamed Maaaree. It was all their fault.
He is entering into consultation with Iwi to discuss an option the Government will never support so its chances at the inevitable court action will be increased.
And he then sowed confusion by bringing forward an announcement that kiwi soldiers were coming home early from Afghanistan.
He is such a consummate politician. And such an awful leader. New Zealand should be ashamed …
+1
Can i ask, does anyone know which seat cameron brewer is being lined up for national at the next election? He seems to have quite a pr team nehind him, and he has jumped on the greedy maori bandwagon today, the timing is very very interesting?
I thought he was being lined up to go against Brown at next years local body elections so they can plunder akl’s assets, he’s always tub thumping on rates, travel etc etc.
Banksy f’d that up good and proper last time so it’s time for Blinky jnr.
CB will stay in local politics for the time being, as his usefullness is seen to be there, and the timing of the comments deliberate.
I would say that as long as good people are prepared to sit back and wait, hoping that perhaps the local/national political system will begin to represent them, things will continue to get worse.
There are some half decent reps inside AKL Council, but CB is most certainly not one them!
I would see the mayoral attack coming from CB/CF direction, as they want AKL assets, and they want them badly!
David Clark makes a good argument in support of his bill to increase the minimum wage: The PM’s cleaner deserves more
Thanks for the link. Yes, it covers a lot of important points, including this:
So it seems the cronyist links between Westpac and the NAct government continue to register at the edges of the media radar, with a failure for the government to fulfill its promise of opening its banking contract (currently with Westpac) for tender:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/7606571/No-tender-yet-for-Government-banking-contract
Meanwhile, ex-NAct minister Simon Power, now with Westpac, is ensuring his current employer, Westpac, has a significant presence in Christchurch:
http://www.3news.co.nz/Westpac-ready-for-return-to-Christchurch-CBD/tabid/421/articleID/263293/Default.aspx
And more importantly – why is no one asking the question as to why the Government opts to bank with a foreign owned bank as opposed to using the bank that it conveniently happens to OWN?
Notwithstanding the fact that it would also provide additional capital reserves that apparently Kiwibank needs…
Whilst KiwiBank is doing a good job it is totally under capitalised.
It regularly borrows money from NZ Post (taxpayer) from inception to prop up its finanncial structure.
The Reserve Bank controls ALL Banks in New Zealand with secure financial limits.
It would take the total partial sale assets of a couple of SOE’s to pay back what it owes and to be lodged to set it up competively.
Could be done.
KiwiBank only needs a $75M capital injection to bring it completely up to speed.
CV
Current spread possibly but we are talking about going for Banker to the Government of New Zealand, not continuing in its current 5% and a bit market share.
Ahh I see.
‘concerned the cost of tendering the contract.’ yeah right Blagger Bill.
They burn piles of dosh on consultants and ticket clippers on the now stalled MOMathon, intended share giveaways, RONS with little or negative payback, consulting culture in and around treasury etc etc etc.
The arrogance continues to be world class from this gov’t but they’re consistent here with another broken promise.
Government banking should be returned to the Reserve Bank IMO.
The Reserve Bank isn’t set up as a retail bank so Kiwi Bank would have to do it.
But the Reserve Bank could take back its right as the sole creator of interest-free, debt-free money into our economy.
More lies and anit-democratic practices by our government, exposed:
http://www.labour.org.nz/news/government-mps-mislead-tvnz7%E2%80%99s-supporters
The end of TVNZ7 was all about ensuring that our TV channels promoted stupidity.
http://tumeke.blogspot.co.nz/2012/09/so-tvnz-could-have-saved-tvnz7-then.html
VITAMIN C CAN CURE: So why does Auckland Hospital REFUSE to give it to you?
________________________________________________________________________________
Man saved by Vitamin C to lead protest at Auckland Hospital
Allan Smith, whose life was saved in 2009 by intravenous Vitamin C at Auckland Hospital, will be protesting from 12-2 pm on September 15 … at Auckland Hospital – for turning its back on this life saving treatment.
Smith was featured on two segments on 60 Minutes in 2010.
60 Minutes detailed his surprising story of near fatal illness with Swine Flu and pneumonia, and the willingness of Auckland Hospital to “pull the plug” on him – kill him – rather than give him Vitamin C.
Vitamin C, especially in high doses, has been a well-known and scientifically accepted anti-viral for many years, andyet Auckland hospital initially refused to administer it,falsely claiming that they had “tried everything” to no avail.
When the hospital, under pressure from the family, finally andRELUCTANTLY administered the vitamin C, Smith began to show a dramatic improvement within days.
Within a few short weeks he was well again.
Unfortunately, Auckland Hospital and many other NZ hospitals seem to have learned nothing from the experience and to this day they actually REFUSE to administer vitamin C to patients presenting with acute viral illnesses such as flu.
They persistently and falsely claim that there is “no evidence” for the efficacy of vitamin C, but there is, indeed, massive amounts of evidence for it – even in their “peer reviewed” medical literature.
Vitamin C is even a registered medicine in New Zealand.
And yet they initially refused to give it to Allan Smith and they continue to refuse to give it to other people who are ill with viral (or bacterial) illnesses.
And some people reportedly have died as a result of this refusal to even try it!
Were it not for the persistence of Smith’s family, he would have died, too.
Whatever the reason for this intransigence in the face of the obvious successes of Vitamin C, the people of New Zealand deserve to have a medical system that is truly evidence-based, and is focussed entirely on the best recovery strategies available – rather than one that refuses to acknowledge its mistakes.
Across the board, mistakes such as this one are costing thousands of lives, in that the Medical System itself is now reliably VITAMIN C CAN CURE considered to be the third leading cause of death in New Zealand.
Why, we ask, is it so difficult for Auckland Hospital to learn from the case of Allan Smith? Why is so hard to admit that a mistake was made? … and then change a ridiculous policy that is costing lives and public health.
Contact: Allan Smith
Tel 07 873 7572
027-472-2975
________________________________________________________________________________
I’ll be there – outside Auckland Hospital from 12 noon – 2pm Saturday 15 September 2012.
Who else is coming?
Penny Bright
So you just protest for the sake of protesting now?
errr…………… A bit of a NO-BRAINER I would have thought?
Aren’t hospitals and medical staff supposed to be in the business (as it were 🙂 of SAVING lives?
If Vitamin C can cure – why is Auckland Hospital refusing to give this treatment?
I’ll be protesting outside Auckland Hospital on 15 September 2012 from 12 noon to 2pm because I support this issue.
In my considered opinion, as a ‘veteran’ activist with over 40 years experience – ‘it’s the masses who get off their asses’ – who help bring about change.
Pity a few more people didn’t get off their butts and stand up to be counted, in order to help make a difference?
Cheers!
Penny Bright
“If Vitamin C can cure – why is Auckland Hospital refusing to give this treatment?”
because it has never been proven and only tenuous links have been established. There have been no, to very few, double blind studies done and no real incontrovertible evidence that Vitamin C has any real effect.
So it isn’t a ‘no-brainer’.
This may help the informed debate on Vitamin C?
_________________________________________________________________________
http://www.vitaminccancure.org.nz/
Home
The Vitamin C Can Cure Coalition is is a patient and family support group which has come together to promote the benefits of high dose vitamin C to resolve a variety of life threatening illnesses. We also exist to support patients’ rights to access to this treatment.
Intravenous vitamin C is a registered medicine in New Zealand, yet this medication is currently being refused patients requesting it in New Zealand hospitals. The dangers of such refusal is that it may lead to unnecessary deaths.
Intravenous vitamin C can be a lifesaving treatment when administered in a timely manner and in sufficient doses. Last year New Zealander Allan Smith was critically ill with swine flu and was facing death as his life support was going to be turned off. At his family’s request, Allan Smith was administered high dose intravenous vitamin C and made a full recovery and is alive and well today.
The Allan Smith Story
Allan Smith’s recovery from Swine Flu and Hairy Cell Leukemia was documented on TV3′s 60 Minutes Programme. The story may be viewed at this link on TV3′s website:
http://ondemand.tv3.co.nz/60-Minutes-Living-Proof/tabid/59/articleID/923/Default.aspx
“Some physicians would stand by and see their patient die
rather than use ascorbic acid (vitamin C) because
in their finite minds it exists only as a vitamin”
– Dr. Frederick Robert Klenner
_________________________________________________________________________
Kind regards,
Penny Bright
Evidence is not the plural of anecdote, Penny.
Of course, CODEX, S510, NZ Natural Health Products bill et al, have absolutely nothing to do with it eh!
Its all about the control!
Anecdote that!
Sure. How about “that reminds me of the person who called everything a false-flag operation to the point that the person looked extremely delusional, but then it became evident that they didn’t know what ‘false flag’ actually meant. So beware of randoms on the internet making claims of miracles or conspiracies.”
Hey McFlock how you doing buddy…
Nah, where that went wrong for you was, you assumed I care what the “official definition” of a FF is, when I just use the term for things which smell bad!
You asked me my opinion, I gave it, you didn’t like it and have got your g string in a twist!
Lol
Okay then, it is apparent to me that you are an aardvark thinker. Although I’m not going to be nailed down by TPTB’s “official definition” of those words, but I’ll expect you to know what I mean.
Oh, and your mother was a cucumber.
It may look helpful to you, Penny, but I’m pretty sure if Contrarian responded by linking to a site called “novitaminccan’tcure.com” you might get an idea of why no one else finds it particularly compelling.
A precious first, Contrarian… I agree wholeheartedly with you! 🙂
And more on NAct crony watch – Rebstock now confirmed as ACC chair and leader of its “culture change” – on her record, I can’t see that as being a change for the better:
Also joining Ms Rebstock on the board are financial adviser and Public Trust chairman Trevor Janes, Auckland University School of Medicine head Professor Des Gorman and public and medical law expert Kristy McDonald QC, who have all been appointed for three-year terms.
A fourth new board member has also been identified, but not named, and will start their role in 2013.
The new appointees will join the existing board members Jill Spooner, John Meehan and Jane Huria.
Ms Collins says the new appointments reflect the government’s commitment to rebuilding the public’s trust and confidence in ACC.
She said Ms Rebstock has “demonstrated a commitment to culture change at ACC”.
Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/Rebstock-to-head-ACC-culture-change/tabid/423/articleID/267947/Default.aspx#ixzz25RmiG000
Inevitable that one, she’s a trusted jackboot corporate animal of the Nat’s who jumped off the comcom monopoly train to take these roles up.
There is a problem here, these are 3 year appointments and they are obviously political and ideological. The precedent is not good, should the government change and the direction / ideology change as well (by no means certain with PaganiLab) then they may just have to be ejected.
Translation: Will continue the governments work to destroy the publics confidence in ACC so that private insurers can be brought in.
Considering the sociopathy that she showed in the Welfare Working Group I’m sure she will – it just won’t be a change for the better.
Rebstock the new chair of ACC. Culture change all right – they’ll be kicking even more people off now. Charming.
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/pauling.html
Penny you have been conned by the powerful placebo effect.
The alleged benefits of Vitamin C have been rigorously discredited.
ol’ anal fissure aye
Quite true
Got some FACTS and EVIDENCE to back up what you are saying ‘fisiani’?
Penny Bright
Try this Penny
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/6286215/Vitamin-therapy-fails-to-deliver
That’s not evidence TC. That’s a one man trial. It’s interesting, but it doesn’t count as even being close to evidence of anything other than that the treatment didn’t work for him.
You might have missed this in the article too –
“Debate about high-dose vitamin C had been raging for three decades and it was time proper clinical trials were conducted, he said. ”
(my emphasis). That’s a university researcher saying that there is no evidence either way yet.
btw, I don’t believe that Vit C is a cure for cancer. It might be helpful for some people.
Well, the burden of proof is on Penny not me. But you are right it isn’t evidence because there is no evidence the Vit. C can do what it claims and you can’t prove a negative.
So this is why I queried Penny’s protest. She is protesting that a hospital isn’t dosing people up with Vitamin C when there isn’t any evidence it’d be helpful at all.
Pure BS. You have no idea what you are talking about.
You can demonstrate that something has no clinical effect. Its what ordinary drug tirals do all the time. That is not the case for vitamin C where the evidence remains inconclusive.
Its called the burden of proof. The burden of proof is on Penny who says Vitamin C has clinical effect so it is up to her to provide evidence and she made the original claim and her original claim is a positive assertion.
Interesting topic
Some proof for TheContrarian:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16157892?dopt=Abstract
Also the next link mentions
“The only side effect of high doses of ascorbate is a mild laxative effect. There are no reliable reports of severe ascorbate toxicity, such as acidosis or kidney stones.”
http://www.aids.org/topics/vitamin-c-laboratory-tests-indicate-antiviral-effect/
If Vitamin C has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient, I do question why a hospital wouldn’t at least try it.
Hemachromatosis would have to be tested for I guess.
“If Vitamin C has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient , I do question why a hospital wouldn’t at least try it.”
True, but why not try Vitamin D? Or any other substance for that matter.
“has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient” is not a good way of deciding on treatment and the fear, as pointed out by medical officials is that people won’t seek proper medical treatment thinking instead of trying Vitamin C
My reference to “no likelihood of posing danger to a patient” rests on the logic that if something is believed to help a condition, that it has helped others, yet has not been through a rigorous scientific testing process-then I see no problem with giving it to patients who are requesting it as long as it will do no harm.
I believe medical staff are under an oath to do no harm. I assumed this would be the reason why they are not giving it to patients who request it.
“has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient” is not a good way of deciding on treatment and the fear, as pointed out by medical officials is that people won’t seek proper medical treatment thinking instead of trying Vitamin C
Dude, the man was in a coma in the hospital. Do you really think that there was a fear that he would try vitamin C and not seek medical treatment?
Here’s a good look at the ethics of the situation, including details of what the man went through, and how the family had to get lawyers and the HDC involved in what eventually saved his life. (the link shows an ODT article by Grant Gillett, professor of medical ethics at the University of Otago Bioethics Centre)
http://www.vitaminccancure.org.nz/?p=34
Hospitals don’t “try it” as there is no evidence that it works in a positive manner in vivo in any variety of cancer patient.
In terms of the occasional anecdotal report as per that provided by PB in a patient with the viral infections supportive data in this group is also lacking.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15495002
HS makes a good point.
Medicine is (or at least should be) evidence based – particularly in hospitals. You can’t have people just whacking up any old treatment because it might not do any harm based on anecdotal evidence.
They need to protect themselves as well as the patient and you’d be one death away from a serious issue.
Higherstandard doesn’t make a good point, supplying investigative outcomes to the taking of Vit C orally when the discussion is about high dose intravenous application is not an effective response to what I posted.
“They need to protect themselves aswell…”
Which is precisely why I mentioned that if it does no harm…If it is clear that a patient is not going to be poisoned by the substance, and alongside the information supplied in this thread, that people have responded well to this treatment it appears a shame NOT to try it.
It wasn’t just any old treatment though. It’s a treatment that some physicians use.
Doctor’s prescribe drugs for off label use quite often.
Personally if I was dying, I’d be happy to try any old treatment.
I take your point about hospitals needing to protect themselves. And I agree that drugs should be properly tested But there are also situations where that is not appropriate and this case appears to be one of them.
If you’re taking about high dose iv Vit C as far as I’m aware there is no in vivo data showing it to be efficacious.
I do know there are a couple of GPs supplying it for cancer patients that request it but no one in the hospital system would touch it as it is costly in both time and money for no gain and they have proven interventions to provide.
In response to Weka – would you prefer an intervention that was proven to have a benefit recommended by a specialist prior to “trying anything” ?
Frankly if there was any evidence too support giving it most doctors and PHARMAC would be delighted.
” alongside the information supplied in this thread, that people have responded well to this treatment it appears a shame NOT to try it.”
The information is anecdotal. The scientific evidence, the medical evidence (what scant there is at this time) points to it not being an adequate or proper treatment for any condition neither have any studies proven any efficacy from its application.
In that case any doctor is going to shy away from using anything with any clear studies and research to back it up.
They place to test study such things isn’t by randomly shooting up patients in a hospital because it mightn’t hurt. You need double-blind, studies on a large group with a single methodology and similar doses vs. similar conditions – until such a time that takes place I think it is a good thing our hospitals are not used as laboratories.
here is one such rigorous study which showed Vit C. failed:
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM197909273011303
“In response to Weka – would you prefer an intervention that was proven to have a benefit recommended by a specialist prior to “trying anything” ?”
I’d prefer it if the medical establishment weren’t so closedminded, or captured by bigpharma. We’ve had decades to get over this chasm between mainstream and alternative medicine. Fault is on both sides, but just because some medical doctors say something doesn’t make it so. They have massive gaps in their knowledge and experience.
Here’s an example. Many people mitigate or completely relieve the effects of arthritis by making changes to their diets. Most doctors will say that there is no connection. I think there may now be some acceptance of taking things like glucosamine, but in general the line is that there is no evidence or even any useful theory. And yet many people are treating themselves and getting good results. Yes, that’s anecdotal, but if the people are feeling better, what is the problem? It’s not that people are self treating with diet. It’s that medical people aren’t taking that seriously and investigating it.
But to answer your question directly, honestly, if I was dying, I would be looking at the available options from within and outside mainstream medicine. Yes, trials and specialists are very useful, but they’re not the be all and end all. Drug trials aren’t the only useful way of knowing what works. As I already commented, off label use of drugs is not uncommon.
btw, I think there is a huge amount of bullshit within the alternative sector too. I just don’t think that doctors are god.
TC, if you are going to make claims for a study, you need to link to the full article. Lots of dubious research going on, even in peer reviewed journals.
I’m not saying this isn’t reliable research (and as stated, I don’t believe that vitamin C can cure cancer), but it’s not enough to present and abstract and ask everyone to trust.
I’m interested to know if you think that the hospital should have refused to give the vit C to the man with bird flu and pneumonia.
There was a well publicised case a couple years back of a Kiwi farmer who was almost fatally struck down by swine flu. Made it to TV in fact. His family finally convinced the hospital (AKL hospital?) to give his comatose body huge dosages of vitamin C and he started recovery almost immediately.
The ‘funny’ thing was that every time supervising doctors changed shift a new boss doctor would come onboard and go “WTF? Vitamin C? Get that quackery outta here”. They’d yank the IV lines out and literally, he would start to die again in front of their eyes until the family pleaded enough to restart it.
The Contrarian
In response to the link you supplied
“Ascorbic acid (vitamin C, ascorbate) has a controversial history in cancer treatment (1). Observational reports described ascorbate, given in pharmacologic doses of 10 g daily, as effective in treating some cancers and in improving patient well-being (2-4).
Subsequently, the same dose had no effect on patient well-being and survival in two double-blind placebo-controlled trials, and ascorbate was discarded as a treatment modality (5, 6).
Recent clinical evidence, however, indicates that the role of ascorbate in cancer treatment should be examined anew (7). THE ORIGINALLY REPORTED OBSERVATIONAL STUDIES USED I.V. AND ORAL ASCORBATE, BUT THE SUBSEQUENT DOUBLE-BLIND PLACEBO-CONTROLLED STUDIES USED ONLY ORAL ASCORBATE. It was not recognized that the route of ascorbate administration might produce large differences in plasma concentrations….Despite inconsistencies, some in vitro studies showed that ascorbate killed cancer cells, although mechanisms and physiologic relevance were unclear (10-12). Complementary and alternative medicine practitioners worldwide currently use ascorbate i.v. in some patients, in part because there is no apparent harm (13-15).” [My emphasis]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1224653/?tool=pubmed
Which may well be why the hospital allowed the treatment to be conducted on the person mentioned by Penny Bright.
I agree with Weka’s comments. I would wish to be allowed the treatment if I had the type of illness that MIGHT be cured by it.
“TC, if you are going to make claims for a study, you need to link to the full article. Lots of dubious research going on, even in peer reviewed journals”
I can’t really with this one – it’s a paid service (most medical journals are) and sharing a copy if i did purchase it could possibly break copyright.
“I’m interested to know if you think that the hospital should have refused to give the vit C to the man with bird flu and pneumonia.”
I am not sure to be honest, I wasn’t there and can’t really answer outside yes because it is an untested, non-evidence based treated and no because the man and his family make the ultimate choice in the matter. I can’t really answer.
However, back to the original post, I don’t Penny Bright is particularly, errrr, ‘bright’ in protesting a hospital for not using a technique without sufficient scientific backing.
You just need to link to articles that are open access or have been reviewed elsewhere 😉
btw, a single study of vitamin C used to treat a specific kind of cancer is not evidence that vitamin C has no clinical use at all.
Vitamin C is a registered medicine. It’s use for the man with flu/pneumonia was (presumably) off-label drug use. Is there a reason why that can’t be done again, in a careful considered way?
TheContrarian
Actually the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that Vitamin C is not an effective cancer treatment. If you cannot, you’re basing your belief on nothing but hot air.
Evidence that Vitamin C is a viable cancer treatment has been around since 1976,
when double Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling and Scottish surgeon Ewan Cameron showed an unparalleled increase in survival times in terminal cancer patients treated with vitamin C.
Reevaluation of prolongation of survival times in terminal human cancer
The reason the medical profession don’t recognize such studies is because cancer is a multi million dollar business that would not be anywhere near as profitable if people were encouraged to us a cheap and readily available treatment such as Vitamin C.
Oh dear… You really are an ignorant doofus! Vitamin C has been used to treat many ailments from Autism to LSD Abuse. It’s an essential vitamin after all that if depleted can cause serious health problems. Vitamin C helps the immune and the detoxification system to function properly. It has also been empirically proven with many peer reviewed scientific studies to help cancer patients.
But don’t let your ignorance stop you from making a fool of yourself TheContrarian.
The study you link to has been debunked numerous times and has been superceded by a number of better designed and more reliable trials.
http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/123-1324/4404/
Linus Pauling was a great man, however, his insistence that vitamin C could cure large proportions of patients with cancer was without foundation.
Wow! That’s your evidence… An article written by Shaun Holt from Tauranga? FFS!
Are you aware that the Mayo Clinic study used relatively low oral doses for short periods, rather than the combination of high oral and intravenous (IV) doses in the Pauling and Cameron study?
Clearly that’s not debunking! It’s the pharmaceutical industry trying and failing to discredit alternative medication that works. Were you also aware that the Mayo Clinic has refused to provide anybody with all their research data so their process can be verified. As a result, the Mayo Clinic study is next to useless!
Besides, in 1982 a study (PDF) by Murata A. Morishige F. Yamaguchi H confirmed Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron’s findings. Administering large doses of ascorbate prolongs survival times of terminal cancer patients.
That initial study by Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron in 1976 was reevaluated and confirmed as correct by them in 1978. In fact its been verified on numerous occasions by institutions and researchers who don’t have a vested interest.
Good oh, if you are ever unlucky enough to get cancer feel free to utilise Vitamin C to your hearts content in preference to proven treatments.
Large dosses of Vitamin C is a proven treatment higherstandard.
BTW, I linked to the wrong study above. The Murata A, Morishige F, Yamaguchi H study states:
In comparison your argument is feckless!
No, Vitamin C is a proven treatment for only the following conditions.
Vitamin C deficiency disorders such as scurvey and as an adjunct in idiopathic methaemoglobinaemia.
So those three independent studies I’ve linked to, which all have similar results prove nothing? It would seem that just like the doofus you’re only proving your own ignorance HS.
Todd the studies you’ve linked to are laughable.
As I’ve said there is no reliable evidence that Vitamin C of any dose has a beneficial effect for patients suffering from tumours.
However if you are unlucky enough to ever be diagnosed with cancer there are a number of places in NZ you can access iv Vitamin C should you think it will be of benefit to you.
I would however suggest you access the more proven and effective mainstream therapies before going down that track.
Why are those studies laughable exactly? People cannot access Vitamin C treatment in a public hospital HS, which was kind of Penny’s point in the first place. PS my names not Todd.
They cannot access Vitamin C in a public hospital due to its lack of proven efficacy, they can access it from a number of alternative medicine clinics around NZ.
Not surprisingly there are no reports from these alternative medicine centres of miraculous outcomes.
I haven’t the time or will power to attempt to educate you on what constitutes a well designed reliable trial but feel free to investigate on google scholar or the like.
I refer to your previous handle which was Todd prior to the Jackal I believe.
You haven’t the time HS because you’re talking shit. Those studies I’ve linked to constitute well designed and reliable research, unlike the piece of rubbish you linked to.
Answer me this if you can. Clearly the pharmaceutical industry has an ulterior motive to show that Vitamin C is not a viable medicine… What would be the ulterior motive for the researchers/scientists who show that high doses of vitamin C can treat cancer? Why would they lie HS?
Please use my current handle. Jackal
Todd the studies you linked to were nether blinded, nor randomised according to tumour type, KS or previous treatment chemotherapy.
The commentary I linked to had a number of references at the bottom some of which are to randomised blinded studies if you would care to look the trials showing no effect of Vitamin C have generally been funded via the institution where they have been carried out of via educational grants.
If the pharmaceutical industry had any inkling that vitamin C was useful in cancer or nay other illness they would make minor modifcations in the molecule to make it more efficacious patent it and make a fortune.
I would dearly like vitamin C to be useful in the treatment of cancer due to its low toxicity unfortunately there balance of evidence suggests that this is the case.
Wrong again HS. Many of the studies showing a positive result are clinical trials that don’t actually require blinded testing. However the Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron study used a thousand matched controls. This is used for observational data (i.e. non experimental data).
It’s obvious that you don’t really know what you’re talking about and haven’t even bothered to read that study properly, so here’s the guts of it again:
You will find that any studies you’re able to provide that show Vitamin C has no effect on cancer tumors was because they didn’t use it at a high enough dose to achieve plasma concentrations that are generally cytotoxic to tumor cells.
I like your Freudian slip there BTW. On the balance of evidence it really does seem to be the case that Vitamin C is an effective treatment for cancer.
“Many of the studies showing a positive result are clinical trials that don’t actually require blinded testing.”
Todd you don’t have the foggiest idea what you’re talking about, Paulins study has been evaluated and critiqued repeatedly and is still taught in medical shools in relation to poor study design.
To quote the chief of the clinical investigations branch of the National Cancer Institute’s cancer therapy program…..
‘…the vitamin C and control groups had not been properly matched, no data had been published to demonstrate that the patients had been matched by stage of their disease, functional ability, weight loss, and sites of metastasis, all of which are important judging the stage of the disease. Pauling and Cameron’s patients began getting vitamin C when Cameron judged them “untreatable” and their subsequent survival was compared to that of the control patients from the time they had been labeled “untreatable.”
If the two groups were comparable, the average time from the initial diagnosis to “untreatable” status should be similar for both groups. But they were not. Hence Cameron’s patients had been labeled untreatable earlier in the course of their disease and would therefore be expected to live longer, also more than 20% of the patients in the control group had died within a few days of being labeled untreatable, whereas none of Cameron’s patients had died. This, too, suggested that Cameron’s patients had had less advanced disease when they were labeled untreatable…..’
As I’ve said if you are unfortunate enough to be diagnosed with cancer feel free to try alternative methods, I’ll stick with proven therapies.
Apologies for my poor typing this morning phones are shite to type upon.
Your evidence is an article written by Shaun Holt from Tauranga and one Medical Doctor… C’mon HS, surely you can do better than that?
Firstly William D. DeWys “research” does not seem to be available online? Secondly he makes a number of unfounded statements that are easily refuted.
Here’s how the selection process was undertaken:
From the 1978 reevaluation study (PDF).
Looks like your doctor DeWys is full of shit HS. It would really help the debate if you actually bothered to read the research instead of regurgitating what is obviously false information… But I guess I’m asking for too much?
Todd from memory the NCI made their comments on Paulings study well after all Paulings results were published.
As DeWys was at that stage one of the senior investigative clinicians at the NCI I’d hardly call him full of shit.
http://history.nih.gov/nihinownwords/docs/Dr.WilliamD.DeWys.htm
Pauling however, tended to get more and more bizarre in his claims regarding the utility of Vitamin C. As I’ve said previously if you are unfortunate enough to ever suffer from cancer I’d recommend starting with proven inteventions rather than the like of high dose iv Vitamin C.
DeWys is clearly full of shit HS. The paragraph I’ve quoted from Pauling and Cameron’s reevaluation study totally contradicts what he has said. DeWys claims that it was Linus Pauling himself who chose the test subjects when it was in fact senior members of the Medical Records Staff in Vale of Leven Hospital.
It really comes down to who has a reason to lie… I’ve provided a reason why the pharmaceutical industry would promote false information. I ask again… Why would Pauling and Cameron and all the other scientists and researchers who have shown high doses of Vitamin C can treat cancer lie?
Why do you keep repeating yourself like a broken record HS? This is becoming tedious! Let me know if you can provide some actual evidence that Vitamin C doesn’t work to treat cancer. Until then I think we should just agree to disagree.
Todd, to suggest that this is some cover up by pharmaceutical suppliers is bizarre – Vit C is available from many alternative medical practitioners here and overseas who offer it alone or along with other therapies to persons who are mistrusting of standard treatment or who have no other options. It is not used for the treatment of cancer by the vast majority of oncologists due to there being no compelling data that is efficacious.
I repeat myself as you do not seem to understand that there is no robust evidence to support the use of Vit C in the treatment of cancer and it is wisest to defer to the experts in the field of medical, and radiation oncology for treatment options which have been the subject of more robust scientific study.
Regarding Pauling’s motives I do note that from histories online The Linus Pauling Institute of Science and Medicine was founded in 1973 and operated under that name until 1995 [20]. The institute was dedicated to “orthomolecular medicine.” For many years, its largest corporate donor was Hoffmann-La Roche, the pharmaceutical giant that produces most of the world’s vitamin C. Many of the institute’s fundraising brochures contained questionable information. During the 1980s, for example, they falsely stated that no significant progress had been made in cancer treatment during the previous twenty years.
And yes I agree to disagree with you.
So you’ve discredited double Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling by providing information from a very dubious website. How do you propose to discredit Murata A, Morishige F, Yamaguchi H, N. H. Riordan, H. D. Riordan, X. Meng, Y. LI and J. A. Jackson, who are just a few of the researchers and scientists that found similar results?
You’re suggesting that there’s some sort of worldwide conspiracy to provide false information about Vitamin C so that manufacturers can sell more. Just to let you know, Acorbate can be purchased for as little as $1 per kg and even less in larger quantities.
In comparison, here’s a breakdown of what cancer treatment costs in the US:
Nobody is going to get rich from using Vitamin C to treat cancer HS. Which makes the latest twist to your now completely defunct argument laughable!
Todd
Not at all, Only Paulings views on cancer and Vitamin C/orthmolecular medicine have been discredited which in his defense he was starting to get somewhat senile towards the end of his life so one cannot really level any serious accusations at him, the vast majority of his scientific work was magnificent this can be said of many famous scientists and even several nobel laureates – I don’t think any of them would claim that every theory they had ever promulgated was correct.
I’m not suggesting there’s any sort of worldwide conspiracy at all, that appears to be your position in relation to the unwillingness of health professionals in particular those in the area of oncology to utilise Vitamin C to treat cancer, my position is that it is not used by health professionals in this setting as it has no utility.
Yes I do realise ascorbate is cheap as are many if not most APIs, this does not mean the actually finished product can be provided to patients cheaply and indeed even if they can be provided to patients cheaply there are unscrupulous individuals such as our own infamous Milan Brych who made fortunes from quackery.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to suggest in relation to cancer costs in the US ?
I thought you had agreed to disagree ?
I cannot find any verifiable information to show that Linus Pauling suffered from senility. You’re not making shit up again are you HS? This is the usual baseless accusations leveled against researchers by people who don’t like the results and have a vested interest in keeping the status quo.
The US cancer treatment costs from 2005 are to show the difference between conventional and alternative treatment using Acorbate. As clearly stated, nobody is going to get rich by using Vitamin C to treat Cancer, and that’s one of the reasons it’s not being utilized. There is therefore no financial reason to promote false information to promote Vitamin C as you believe. You must be suffering a bit of senility yourself if you didn’t understand that HS.
Your contention that Acorbate needs to have extensive changes made so it can be utilized is obviously incorect! The studies show that Acorbate in its present form is effective at treating cancer if administered at high enough doses intravenously and orally.
Then how do you explain the researchers and scientists listed above having the same results as Linus Pauling’s study if it’s not a conspiracy between them?
In contrast, I think it is a deplorable conspiracy to not generally use a cheap and effective alternative medication to treat a disease that one in three Kiwis will suffer from. Clearly there’s a profit motive to repressing an inexpensive medication and pharmaceutical companies are not beyond reproach. For instance Glaxo Smith and Kline was recently fined $3 billion for putting peoples lives in danger purely to make money. That criminal proceeding was an isolated case lost in a sea of medical corruption.
Whether you like it or not HS, there is robust evidence that shows categorically that high doses of Vitamin C is effective at treating cancer. I’ve provided some of this information here to which you’ve not adequately responded. That’s because there’s far more scientific research that shows Vitamin C is an effective treatment than says it isn’t.
Therefore there is a consensus amongst scientists that it works… It just needs to be recognized by medical practitioners, who unfortunately are in the pocket of big pharmaceutical companies. Until their profit motive to use inferior and more expensive medications is addressed, cancer patients will continue to not have ready access to an a proven and inexpensive treatment that works.
You still have not linked to DeWys’ “research” that apparently discredits the Reevaluation of prolongation of survival times in terminal human cancer? Making claims that are unverifiable is what quackery is all about. But feel free to keep quacking if you like HS.
You really are a trifle odd Todd.
There’s really little point in trying to educate you on the methodologies and rationale supported by vast amounts of reputable, repeatable and robust clinical research for treating the various types of cancers they way we do and the various costs associated with either surgery, radiation and chemotherapy or combinations of all three as you appear set in your mind set that it’s all a massive conspiracy by company/s and person’s unknown who’ve duped the medical profession, regulators and scientists into treating cancer patients how we do rather than with Vitamin C.
It’s not odd at all to believe that the majority of studies into using Vitamin C to treat cancer are correct. If people just accepted the status quo as it is, we would never have any progress at all.
@ The Jackal,
I don’t know why you bother to continue this debate with Higher Than a Kite, for despite having provided it with plenty of reasoned argument, AND evidence it continues to ignore you and bang on about “there being no evidence” when both you and myself provided substantial evidence that it has been an effective treatment. (the evidence I provided indicated that it would be worth further investigation).
Science would have gotten nowhere if the view prevailed that anything that hasn’t been fully scientifically evaluated doesn’t exist and is of no effect.
That it is now deemed only those with money are allowed the privilege to decide what gets scientifically evaluated or not, and that that decision is left to their poor imaginations as to what will lead to profit and what won’t, then methinks this situation is going to lead us to less and less discoveries.
+1
BL and Todd are either of you are qualified cancer specialists, clinicians of any sort or do you have science background ?
The evidence that Vitamin C has any utility in the treatment of cancer has not been demonstrated in any useful manner the interventions which are used in the treatment of cancer have been proven useful in modern blinded trials which is why those treating patients with cancer utilise these proven interventions and continue to treat and trial new interventions which may improve patient outcomes this has lead to major advances in the outcomes of patients with many tumour types over the last several decades
Here’s one instead
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1224653/?tool=pubmed
“Recent clinical evidence, however, indicates that the role of ascorbate in cancer treatment should be examined anew …Despite inconsistencies, some in vitro studies showed that ascorbate killed cancer cells, although mechanisms and physiologic relevance were unclear “
Yes it’s interesting – it’s also in vitro.
No well designed in vivo studies have shown a benefit of vitamin c in the treatment of cancer.
The thing that irked me about the comment by TJ was…
‘The reason the medical profession don’t recognize such studies is because cancer is a multi million dollar business that would not be anywhere near as profitable if people were encouraged to us a cheap and readily available treatment such as Vitamin C.’
To suggest that oncologists only utilise surgery, radiotherapy and chemotherapy to treat cancer due to some profit motive is offensive.
Agreed. They utilise those methods because its the only options those practitioners are exposed to in their training and the only options they are given in a hospital setting.
The filtering happens faraway at the business case level in the big pharma and medical device corporates. There is nothing patentable or profitable about IV Vit C so no surprise it goes no where.
Yes that’s obviously the reason, all clinicians, regulatory authorities, researchers, patient advocacy groups and QANGOS such as PHARMAC have been duped.
PS I am being sarcastic as this is about as useful as debating 9/11 with Eve.
Meanwhile, ebola rears its head again.
Probably the secret world government preparing to send us all to lizard feeding farms.
hs – don’t be a dick. I stated very clearly that the decisions are made BEFORE it gets to PHARMAC or any front line clinicians. Don’t go intellectually blind on me all of a sudden and refuse to think by hiding behind the Twin Towers.
You seem to be trying to say that pharmaceutical corporates don’t assess potential products for profitability before committing to their development, and that they don’t cull out all but the most financially promising treatment candidates/areas of health. Of course they do. They are profit driven private enterprises.
Its why we have a shitload ofexpensive drugs to deal with important health problems like Developed World Impotence and Developed World Obesity, and fuck all antibiotics for the 3rd world.
CV I’m not being a dick just frustrated that persons such as yourself continue to spread such inanity and false hope and then seek to accuse some dark motive and cover up as the obvious rationale as to why no one heeds your advice.
for your information the WHO via a number of pharmaceutical companies in india and the like supplies anti virals, anti biotics and other medical supplies into the third world at very reasonable pricing.
Similarly R&D in the pharmaceutical arena is carried out less and less by the huge pharmaceutical players as they are Dilbert like and more and more by very small researchers like those we have in Dunedin, Wellington and Auckland.
Phase 1 and 11 research has been and is being carried out with iv Vitamin C by laboratories under the auspices of the NCI in a number of tumour types with less than exciting results.
If it worked, Pharmac would demand it be used. Just like they demand the cheapest of any other drug be used, if mostly effective. This is the problem patients whose meds don’t relieve their disease face – Pharmac will not sign up to expensive drugs if there are, in their opinion, cheaper alternatives that suit most people. If there was evidence Vitamin C worked Pharmac would be all over it.
A case of watch this space if Vit C is proved useful.
Hi Rosy,
There is an issue regarding what gets studied. I.e something may be effective, yet not so easily capitalized on therefore something that IS easier to capitalize on will be chosen over it.
Also
http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/abuses_of_science/how-corporations-corrupt-science.html
Blue Leopard, I understand your issues with pharmaceutical corporations, and it is valid in a profit-driven health service, but I think you’ve missed the point entirely. Pharmac have been shown to be quite willing to dump big pharma and it’s take on research outcomes to save money. That’s Pharmac’s brief. Keep the population provided with the drugs required, but at the cheapest possible price. The Herceptin issue is a case in point. So is funding for advanced auto-immune disease suppressants.
Pharmac will also fund research if they think a drugs regime that big pharma doesn’t want will save money. Once again the Herceptin debate is a good example. Pharmac will not rule out vitamin C if it thinks there is a chance that it will be effective at a cheaper price than any other drug. And with Vitamin C, that would have to be about all of them (barring, maybe, methotrexate and similar very old chemotherapy drugs). It simply makes no sense that Pharmac would abandon this model to avoid using Vitamin C if it was effective.
@ Rosy
Its good to here that about Pharmac, however it would appear that if the rigorous clinical trials have not been conducted, I suspect that Pharmac could not follow the course of action you are suggesting they do.
From what you say, however, hopefully when word finally gets to them of the following studies, they might fund the further clinical trials recommended on the matter:
Pharmacologic ascorbic acid concentrations selectively kill cancer cells: action as a pro-drug to deliver hydrogen peroxide to tissues:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16157892?dopt=Abstract
High-dose Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid) Therapy in the Treatment of Patients with Advanced Cancer:
http://ar.iiarjournals.org/content/29/3/809.full
(The following scroll down to “Mega-dose vitamin C as cancer therapy”):
http://www.patrickholford.com/index.php/advice/betterhealtharticle/954/
Cystic Fybrosis barely understandable however scroll to ‘discussion’
“Several candidate molecules have been shown to be effective CFTR activators in vitro or in vivo (35); however, the majority of compounds that activate CFTR have additional pharmacological effects, whereas vitamin C is on the FDA’s list of substances generally recognized as safe, and mega-doses of vitamin C (up to 2.5 g/day) are well tolerated (33). Our study highlights the potential therapeutic use of vitamin C as a safe, nontoxic, and efficacious small molecule for the activation of CFTR-mediated Cl transport in epithelia.”
http://www.pnas.org/content/101/10/3691.full?sid=969ab485-314e-4d47-9ba3-881accae7334
Renal disease
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22706571
Hemodialysis (whatever that is)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22634906
improved quality of life for breast cancer treatment side effects
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22021693
Higherstandard,
Thankyou for acknowledging the link I provided.
I do believe there are issues surrounding scientific study that can warp outcomes.
I provide a link about the issue which describes the summary of a report written by UCS (Union of Concerned Scientists)
http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/abuses_of_science/how-corporations-corrupt-science.html
One thing that they don’t mention, which I have seen conveyed regarding scientific study is that the required finance will often flow where the most profits are to be had (understandable self interest in the part of investors, however this can lead to some areas of knowledge lacking the investigation it deserves)
No Jackal, you have it all wrong. The Burden of Proof lies on someone making the positive claim i.e. Vitamin C is a viable cancer treatment. I didn’t make that claim, you and Penny have therefore the Burden on Proof is on you.
Please view this chart:
http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/rhetological-fallacies/
Specifically that ‘Under Attack section which lists an example of the burden of proof fallacy as thus,
“I don’t need to prove my claim – you must proof it is false”.
Hence your comment:
“…the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that Vitamin C is not an effective cancer treatment…”
is logically invalid.
No Jackal, you have it all wrong. The Burden of Proof lies on someone making the positive claim i.e. Vitamin C is a viable cancer treatment. I didn’t make that claim, you and Penny have therefore the Burden on Proof is on you.
Please view this chart:
http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/rhetological-fallacies/
Specifically that ‘Under Attack section which lists the burden of proof as thus,
“I don’t need to prove my claim – you must proof it is false”.
Hence your comment:
“…the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that Vitamin C is not an effective cancer treatment…”
is logically invalid.
Google and the various results it provides proves Penny Bright’s (and my) claim. You do know how to use google don’t you doofus?
Show me the peer reviewed scientific consensus
Silly Contrarian, who needs peer review (or as Penny writes it, “peer review”) when you’ve got Google?
Those are peer reviewed studies. Three studies saying Vitamin C works to treat cancer compared to your none saying it doesn’t work… Are you guys being stupid on purpose?
lolz that takes about 15 years, and usually changes upside down on its head about 15 years after that.
try opening the link that I posted. You will find FACTS and EVIDENCE
Quackwatch, now there’s a website with an agenda.
Only an idiot dismisses the usefulness of the placebo effect.
I’m sure the man whose life was saved would be well please if he knew it was only placebo and so died instead 🙄
Fisi anal Not true when it comes to this disease Alan Smith was in a coma for along time and everything they threw at him antibiotics etc did not work however after a short spell on high dose vitamin C he recovered miraculously Research in this area has not been carried out to completely dismiss it would be foolish.
May have already been discussed on here, but WTF is our PM on!?
“we welcome the opportunity to cooperate with the U.S. in the next conflicts”
http://36th-parallel.com/2012/09/press-releases-remarks-with-new-zealand-prime-minister-key/
It seems that was the US people mis-interpreting Key’s garbled English. Was allegedly
“we welcome the opportunity to cooperate with the U.S. in this context”
http://publicaddress.net/hardnews/we-what/
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7607653/PMs-accent-leads-to-US-government-mistake
Some of the inaudible parts of the speech in the press release would look just as legit if they were redactions. eg “we will be doing it in (inaudible) but we hope (inaudible) look after its own security.” Hmmm..?
Classic!
John Key – Deputy Sheriff of the South Pacific
Oh dearie … is that like giving new meaning to double tongue? Or forked tongue?
John Key on diction …
Came across that “John Key’s prunciation guide” a while back…it is hilarious 😀
actually, there is a new potential warlord in town, so chew on those noodles
Christchurch: It was cold, and the servants and officials stood around a fire they had made to keep warm. Peter also was standing with them, warming himself.
As Simon Peter stood warming him-self, he was asked, “You are not one of his disciples, are you?
He denied it, saying, “I am not.”
“What is truth?” Pilate asked.
(u could not make this stuff up)
🙂
and emperors have converted before
🙂
I hope that, on top of all the concern shown about child poverty, people will not have missed the dismal news of the rise in youth suicide (including at least one preteen child). Since the last quarter, suicides of those aged between 20 and 24 have risen from 11.4% to 13.5%; Ages between 15 and 19 have risen from from 25.5% to 27.5%.
There will be a number of causes, largely on account of government “policies”, but 28% of the dead were unemployed, many depressed. Back in May, our youth unemployment had the 19th highest rate in OECD countries. Co-founder of the Foundation for Youth Development (FYD), Graeme Dingle, says “Youth unemployment is a growing issue and one that will have a huge impact on the country. If it is left to fester the cost is simply unaffordable in the long run.””
Key boasts today of devoting 62 million dollars to problems of youth, but fails to mention this is to cover a four year period.
Many will be tempted to think, “well, these figures reflect only upon Maori, so what?” Maori and Pakeha are all together citizens of Aotearoa/New Zealand, suicides (whatever the cause) are not to be fixed upon any one race.
We have no idea, of course, of the huge number of attempted and unsuccessful suicides, hospitalised or covered up. How many were due to undue risks, for example in the road toll? Countless people are engaging in “suicidal living patterns”.
Very many human beings have little, if any, conscience or compassion, we have to accept that this is the fact. But, at the least, people might be bothered for basic economical reasons.
The experts in this field will have some sort of formula with which to get a rough idea of failed attempts v “successful” attempts. I have no idea where you would find this for NZ, unfortunately.
A WHO study estimates in Cananda 80-90% of suicide attempts fail.
Dr Terry wrote ” Since the last quarter, suicides of those aged between 20 and 24 have risen from 11.4% to 13.5%; Ages between 15 and 19 have risen from from 25.5% to 27.5%. ”
I dont understand these figures. 25-27% of those aged 15-19 commit suicide?
Yes it sounds shockingly high to say that almost one third of particular group are suicidal. Maybe they are. Otherwise the percentage increase relates to the figure of the period before, though in this case not supplied, i.e. let’s says 10 people died last year, and this year 12 or 13 people died; an increase on 10 by 27.5%
Clashman. For better accuracy, I suggest you research on Google. Sorry if my figures are misleading. I want only to point very clearly to the seriousness of the situation. What you quote from a Canadian source is probably fairly accurate for our society too.
From a quick look here; http://socialreport.msd.govt.nz/health/suicide.html it seems the figures should be per 100,000, not percentages.
That makes alot more sense to me.
I’m certainly not trying to diminish the seriousness of the situation, I just couldn’t get my head around the figuresquoted.
From memory, the latest coroner release might have been saying that 27% of those who committed suicide were aged 15-19.
But the point is valid – the government might hand-wring when attention is paid to the issue, but they sure won’t bother addressing any of the contributing factors (not solely economic, not solely counselling availability or bullying – it’s a very complex issue). I’m pretty sure this government will avoid 9 out of 10 of any identified possible contributing solutions, choosing only the least expensive tenth. But they’ll announce it 9 ties.
Here’s erstwhile suicide advocate Michael Laws this morning on Radio Live, putting on his deadly serious low voice, pretending to be compassionate and concerned about teen suicide: “I sometimes wonder if we shouldn’t show the faces of the hanging corpses.”
The woman caller on the other end of the line, obviously horrified, gasped, “Oh NO.”
M – it’s good to see you have weaned yourself off ZB, (or is that on the other radio in the kitchen?)
And Family First, as part of it’s Marriage campaign, scores an own goal by trying to mock and satirise the high level of suicide amongst young LGBT people:
http://www.gaynz.com/articles/publish/2/article_12229.php
Excuse me, WTF? It’s not only Maori, never has been and never will be…
The child who killed himself was non-Maori, and while there are proportionally fewer unemployed white people than there are unemployed Maori, there are still a huge number of unemployed white people.
It’s very unhelpful to make out that it’s all about Maori… as it’s equally unhelpful to say it’s all about yoof. To use a phrase that makes my teeth ache but it nevertheless true – older, white unemployed people, and older white people who kill themselves, are ‘doubly invisible’, as for various reasons the media really don’t get too exercised about white unemployed people, or non-yoof suicides. Disclosure: A family member, a white man in his forties committed suicide 8 years ago, and I was stunned. The media, awareness groups etc had me convinced that a 40-something suiciding was so unlikely as to be impossible…
You know things have gone too far when copyright enforcement robots kill a legitimate broadcast:
Why are they trying to get Julian Assange?
Why are the British and U.S. regimes trying to exact vengeance on Julian Assange?
Watch this….
Aficionadoes of black comedy will enjoy watching the bloviations of one Michael Mullen from 5:55 to 6:07 on the video.
Vengeance is something practiced by countries at war.
It seems the US is at war with pretty much everything and everyone. What a sad failure.
Vengeance is something practiced by countries at war.
And gangsters and criminals.
It seems the US is at war with pretty much everything and everyone.
This is a campaign against a dissenting journalist, a teller of truth; it’s a war on democracy.
What a sad failure.
They have been stymied by Ecuador.
Someone should ask John Key about his former mates are up to …
“Even as Greece desperately tries to avoid defaulting on its debt, American companies are preparing for what was once unthinkable: that Greece could soon be forced to leave the euro zone.
Bank of America Merrill Lynch has looked into filling trucks with cash and sending them over the Greek border so clients can continue to pay local employees and suppliers in the event money is unavailable.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/03/business/economy/us-companies-prepare-in-case-greece-exits-euro.html?pagewanted=all
Unilever sees poverty returning to Europe
Says it will now enact in Europe the same marketing and product strategies that it uses profitably in 3rd world and developing countries.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9501771/Unilever-sees-return-to-poverty-in-Europe.html
GO CAPITALISM!!!
That would be bribes and other corrupt practices then.
Aye. How long before the local entrepreneur is the one who ‘got ahead’ enough to afford an entire bottle of cooking oil that can then on-sold for a profit in ‘single meal worth’ polythene sachets?
Okay. Perhaps quite some way off.
But did you notice when they began selling 400g blocks of butter in competition with the 500g blocks at the ‘old’ 500g price? Or those 750g blocks of cheese that were all of a sudden available beside the 1 kg blocks at a price comparable with the ‘old’ 1 kg price? Or what about the air pumped into chocolate bars that kept the size and price (but not the weight) the same? Or how about charity shops rebranding as retail outlets?
And back to Europe, is it worth mentioning the call by the eurozone for Greece to introduce a 6 day working week?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/sep/04/eurozone-six-day-week-greece
Tubes? Going down? Nah!
maori certainly playing govt at their own game: RHETORIC
steering the discourse forward
man! a lotta people losing their Grip on all that money they Hoarded (P.T Barnum)
where your treasure is, there your heart will be
-original renaissance man
Heartbeat now (oh bucolic ol’ blighty) and the importance of being earnest
Debunking Economics
No, it’s not. It’s actually profit minimising behaviour. It’s the one I like to twit neo-classical economists with because it uses their own theory to prove that profit is a dead weight loss.
As Steve Keen says in his book, profit maximising firms (both monopoly and competition) will produce the same output. This leaves the firm in a competitive market with increased market share as the only option to increase profit and they can only do that if they lower the selling price which must lower profits for that firm. As each competitive firm will be doing the same thing the end result must, logically, be where marginal cost and marginal revenue are equal resulting in both the maximum output and minimum profit – in theory.
At that point the firm should be able to maintain itself (income = costs) and the people working there but it won’t be paying out dividends to shareholders. Thus cost cutting usually comes in so that profitability and dividends can be returned resulting, most likely, in the redundancies of workers and a decline in product going to market pushing prices and profits back up again. Unfortunately, the cost cutting has also resulted in a decrease in market demand from the redundancies. After that, it gets complicated…
There are two things that I take from this:
1.) For numerous sectors a well regulated and government owned monopoly will be the better option than competition as competition adds it’s own costs (unnecessary duplication and an even more convoluted regulatory system for starters) that society can do without. This seems especially true of natural monopolies such as telecommunications and power.
2.) Competition isn’t there to lower prices as the neo-classicals believe but to lower profits but it doesn’t work because A) we don’t have a perfectly competitive market B) corruption becomes an accepted means to maintain profits (i.e. collusion/cartel behaviour and cronyism) C) speculation for easy and high profits in the financial system replaces actually making stuff (especially in places where the market is saturated) and D) Firms are trying to maximise profit and not minimise it.
This all results in a few mega corporations ruling the market with small companies being kept out and the dead weight loss of profit still hurting everybody.
in another time they might have been called robber barons.
now they are just robbers.
stealing from ALL THE PEOPLE TO Pay for heka paratai and john banks juvenile fantasies of omnipotence.