OK so yesterday showed Key at his Crosby Textor PR directed best.
He had to delay the sale of the power company shares. Rio Tinto’s belligerent money grabbing stance made a delay inevitable. The threat to the electricity wholesale market was far too high.
So did Key acknowledge this? No he blamed Maaaree. It was all their fault.
He is entering into consultation with Iwi to discuss an option the Government will never support so its chances at the inevitable court action will be increased.
And he then sowed confusion by bringing forward an announcement that kiwi soldiers were coming home early from Afghanistan.
He is such a consummate politician. And such an awful leader. New Zealand should be ashamed …
Can i ask, does anyone know which seat cameron brewer is being lined up for national at the next election? He seems to have quite a pr team nehind him, and he has jumped on the greedy maori bandwagon today, the timing is very very interesting?
I thought he was being lined up to go against Brown at next years local body elections so they can plunder akl’s assets, he’s always tub thumping on rates, travel etc etc.
Banksy f’d that up good and proper last time so it’s time for Blinky jnr.
CB will stay in local politics for the time being, as his usefullness is seen to be there, and the timing of the comments deliberate.
I would say that as long as good people are prepared to sit back and wait, hoping that perhaps the local/national political system will begin to represent them, things will continue to get worse.
There are some half decent reps inside AKL Council, but CB is most certainly not one them!
I would see the mayoral attack coming from CB/CF direction, as they want AKL assets, and they want them badly!
Thanks for the link. Yes, it covers a lot of important points, including this:
Lifting the minimum wage to $15 an hour, as proposed in my Bill awaiting debate in Parliament, will not change that overnight, but it is a step in the right direction.
The truth is New Zealand is a low wage economy. Despite National’s promise of a brighter future and closing the wage gap with Australia, every week a thousand kiwis leave New Zealand for Australia.
…
In fact, no direct link between lifting the minimum wage and job losses has ever been proved.
What has been proved is the destructive effect of poverty and inequality.
So it seems the cronyist links between Westpac and the NAct government continue to register at the edges of the media radar, with a failure for the government to fulfill its promise of opening its banking contract (currently with Westpac) for tender:
Westpac acts as the Government’s banker and holds the accounts of all government departments, but not Crown entities or state-owned enterprises. It is thought to be the largest banking contract in New Zealand and was last tendered in 1989.
In 2010, Finance Minister Bill English indicated he would run a procurement process for government banking to ensure the Crown was getting value for money.
But it is understood the Government is concerned the cost of tendering the contract could outweigh the benefits, because it already negotiates fee reductions with the bank, and there are complex arrangements with government departments.
…
In the past year former Cabinet minister Simon Power became the head of Westpac’s private bank, and English’s former press secretary Grant Fleming became Westpac’s government relations manager.
Greens co-leader Russel Norman says that shows there is a “cosy” relationship between the bank and the Government.
….
”Why does it not apply to Westpac when it seems to apply to everyone else? When it comes to banking, Westpac seems to have a dream run.”
Meanwhile, ex-NAct minister Simon Power, now with Westpac, is ensuring his current employer, Westpac, has a significant presence in Christchurch:
And more importantly – why is no one asking the question as to why the Government opts to bank with a foreign owned bank as opposed to using the bank that it conveniently happens to OWN?
Notwithstanding the fact that it would also provide additional capital reserves that apparently Kiwibank needs…
Whilst KiwiBank is doing a good job it is totally under capitalised.
It regularly borrows money from NZ Post (taxpayer) from inception to prop up its finanncial structure.
The Reserve Bank controls ALL Banks in New Zealand with secure financial limits.
It would take the total partial sale assets of a couple of SOE’s to pay back what it owes and to be lodged to set it up competively.
Could be done.
Current spread possibly but we are talking about going for Banker to the Government of New Zealand, not continuing in its current 5% and a bit market share.
‘concerned the cost of tendering the contract.’ yeah right Blagger Bill.
They burn piles of dosh on consultants and ticket clippers on the now stalled MOMathon, intended share giveaways, RONS with little or negative payback, consulting culture in and around treasury etc etc etc.
The arrogance continues to be world class from this gov’t but they’re consistent here with another broken promise.
National MPs on the Commerce Select Committee have misled New Zealanders on the options for saving public broadcaster TVNZ7 in a report released today, Labour’s broadcasting spokesperson Clare Curran says.
“The Government members of the Commerce Committee have claimed in their majority report that there was never any suggestion that Government funding would continue for TVNZ7 beyond the contracted period.
“But Cabinet documents clearly show that there were proposals considered and then rejected by the National Government that could have kept TVNZ7 running.
“The Government members have also refused to hear the views of the 36,000 petition signees to save TVNZ7. It is unacceptable that this committee has demonstrated a lack of respect or consideration for their views and refused to hear from them.
VITAMIN C CAN CURE: So why does Auckland Hospital REFUSE to give it to you?
________________________________________________________________________________
Man saved by Vitamin C to lead protest at Auckland Hospital
Allan Smith, whose life was saved in 2009 by intravenous Vitamin C at Auckland Hospital, will be protesting from 12-2 pm on September 15 … at Auckland Hospital – for turning its back on this life saving treatment.
Smith was featured on two segments on 60 Minutes in 2010.
60 Minutes detailed his surprising story of near fatal illness with Swine Flu and pneumonia, and the willingness of Auckland Hospital to “pull the plug” on him – kill him – rather than give him Vitamin C.
Vitamin C, especially in high doses, has been a well-known and scientifically accepted anti-viral for many years, andyet Auckland hospital initially refused to administer it,falsely claiming that they had “tried everything” to no avail.
When the hospital, under pressure from the family, finally andRELUCTANTLY administered the vitamin C, Smith began to show a dramatic improvement within days.
Within a few short weeks he was well again.
Unfortunately, Auckland Hospital and many other NZ hospitals seem to have learned nothing from the experience and to this day they actually REFUSE to administer vitamin C to patients presenting with acute viral illnesses such as flu.
They persistently and falsely claim that there is “no evidence” for the efficacy of vitamin C, but there is, indeed, massive amounts of evidence for it – even in their “peer reviewed” medical literature.
Vitamin C is even a registered medicine in New Zealand.
And yet they initially refused to give it to Allan Smith and they continue to refuse to give it to other people who are ill with viral (or bacterial) illnesses.
And some people reportedly have died as a result of this refusal to even try it!
Were it not for the persistence of Smith’s family, he would have died, too.
Whatever the reason for this intransigence in the face of the obvious successes of Vitamin C, the people of New Zealand deserve to have a medical system that is truly evidence-based, and is focussed entirely on the best recovery strategies available – rather than one that refuses to acknowledge its mistakes.
Across the board, mistakes such as this one are costing thousands of lives, in that the Medical System itself is now reliably VITAMIN C CAN CURE considered to be the third leading cause of death in New Zealand.
Why, we ask, is it so difficult for Auckland Hospital to learn from the case of Allan Smith? Why is so hard to admit that a mistake was made? … and then change a ridiculous policy that is costing lives and public health.
Contact: Allan Smith
Tel 07 873 7572
027-472-2975
________________________________________________________________________________
I’ll be there – outside Auckland Hospital from 12 noon – 2pm Saturday 15 September 2012.
errr…………… A bit of a NO-BRAINER I would have thought?
Aren’t hospitals and medical staff supposed to be in the business (as it were 🙂 of SAVING lives?
If Vitamin C can cure – why is Auckland Hospital refusing to give this treatment?
I’ll be protesting outside Auckland Hospital on 15 September 2012 from 12 noon to 2pm because I support this issue.
In my considered opinion, as a ‘veteran’ activist with over 40 years experience – ‘it’s the masses who get off their asses’ – who help bring about change.
Pity a few more people didn’t get off their butts and stand up to be counted, in order to help make a difference?
“If Vitamin C can cure – why is Auckland Hospital refusing to give this treatment?”
because it has never been proven and only tenuous links have been established. There have been no, to very few, double blind studies done and no real incontrovertible evidence that Vitamin C has any real effect.
The Vitamin C Can Cure Coalition is is a patient and family support group which has come together to promote the benefits of high dose vitamin C to resolve a variety of life threatening illnesses. We also exist to support patients’ rights to access to this treatment.
Intravenous vitamin C is a registered medicine in New Zealand, yet this medication is currently being refused patients requesting it in New Zealand hospitals. The dangers of such refusal is that it may lead to unnecessary deaths.
Intravenous vitamin C can be a lifesaving treatment when administered in a timely manner and in sufficient doses. Last year New Zealander Allan Smith was critically ill with swine flu and was facing death as his life support was going to be turned off. At his family’s request, Allan Smith was administered high dose intravenous vitamin C and made a full recovery and is alive and well today.
The Allan Smith Story
Allan Smith’s recovery from Swine Flu and Hairy Cell Leukemia was documented on TV3′s 60 Minutes Programme. The story may be viewed at this link on TV3′s website:
“Some physicians would stand by and see their patient die
rather than use ascorbic acid (vitamin C) because
in their finite minds it exists only as a vitamin”
– Dr. Frederick Robert Klenner
Sure. How about “that reminds me of the person who called everything a false-flag operation to the point that the person looked extremely delusional, but then it became evident that they didn’t know what ‘false flag’ actually meant. So beware of randoms on the internet making claims of miracles or conspiracies.”
Nah, where that went wrong for you was, you assumed I care what the “official definition” of a FF is, when I just use the term for things which smell bad!
You asked me my opinion, I gave it, you didn’t like it and have got your g string in a twist!
Okay then, it is apparent to me that you are an aardvark thinker. Although I’m not going to be nailed down by TPTB’s “official definition” of those words, but I’ll expect you to know what I mean.
It may look helpful to you, Penny, but I’m pretty sure if Contrarian responded by linking to a site called “novitaminccan’tcure.com” you might get an idea of why no one else finds it particularly compelling.
because it has never been proven and only tenuous links have been established. There have been no, to very few, double blind studies done and no real incontrovertible evidence that Vitamin C has any real effect.
A precious first, Contrarian… I agree wholeheartedly with you! 🙂
And more on NAct crony watch – Rebstock now confirmed as ACC chair and leader of its “culture change” – on her record, I can’t see that as being a change for the better:
Also joining Ms Rebstock on the board are financial adviser and Public Trust chairman Trevor Janes, Auckland University School of Medicine head Professor Des Gorman and public and medical law expert Kristy McDonald QC, who have all been appointed for three-year terms.
A fourth new board member has also been identified, but not named, and will start their role in 2013.
The new appointees will join the existing board members Jill Spooner, John Meehan and Jane Huria.
Ms Collins says the new appointments reflect the government’s commitment to rebuilding the public’s trust and confidence in ACC.
She said Ms Rebstock has “demonstrated a commitment to culture change at ACC”.
Also joining Ms Rebstock on the board are financial adviser and Public Trust chairman Trevor Janes, Auckland University School of Medicine head Professor Des Gorman and public and medical law expert Kristy McDonald QC, who have all been appointed for three-year terms.
A fourth new board member has also been identified, but not named, and will start their role in 2013.
The new appointees will join the existing board members Jill Spooner, John Meehan and Jane Huria.
Ms Collins says the new appointments reflect the government’s commitment to rebuilding the public’s trust and confidence in ACC.
She said Ms Rebstock has “demonstrated a commitment to culture change at ACC”.
There is a problem here, these are 3 year appointments and they are obviously political and ideological. The precedent is not good, should the government change and the direction / ideology change as well (by no means certain with PaganiLab) then they may just have to be ejected.
That’s not evidence TC. That’s a one man trial. It’s interesting, but it doesn’t count as even being close to evidence of anything other than that the treatment didn’t work for him.
You might have missed this in the article too –
“Debate about high-dose vitamin C had been raging for three decades and it was time proper clinical trials were conducted, he said. ”
(my emphasis). That’s a university researcher saying that there is no evidence either way yet.
btw, I don’t believe that Vit C is a cure for cancer. It might be helpful for some people.
Well, the burden of proof is on Penny not me. But you are right it isn’t evidence because there is no evidence the Vit. C can do what it claims and you can’t prove a negative.
So this is why I queried Penny’s protest. She is protesting that a hospital isn’t dosing people up with Vitamin C when there isn’t any evidence it’d be helpful at all.
But you are right it isn’t evidence because there is no evidence the Vit. C can do what it claims and you can’t prove a negative.
Pure BS. You have no idea what you are talking about.
You can demonstrate that something has no clinical effect. Its what ordinary drug tirals do all the time. That is not the case for vitamin C where the evidence remains inconclusive.
Its called the burden of proof. The burden of proof is on Penny who says Vitamin C has clinical effect so it is up to her to provide evidence and she made the original claim and her original claim is a positive assertion.
“The only side effect of high doses of ascorbate is a mild laxative effect. There are no reliable reports of severe ascorbate toxicity, such as acidosis or kidney stones.”
“If Vitamin C has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient , I do question why a hospital wouldn’t at least try it.”
True, but why not try Vitamin D? Or any other substance for that matter.
“has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient” is not a good way of deciding on treatment and the fear, as pointed out by medical officials is that people won’t seek proper medical treatment thinking instead of trying Vitamin C
My reference to “no likelihood of posing danger to a patient” rests on the logic that if something is believed to help a condition, that it has helped others, yet has not been through a rigorous scientific testing process-then I see no problem with giving it to patients who are requesting it as long as it will do no harm.
I believe medical staff are under an oath to do no harm. I assumed this would be the reason why they are not giving it to patients who request it.
“has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient” is not a good way of deciding on treatment and the fear, as pointed out by medical officials is that people won’t seek proper medical treatment thinking instead of trying Vitamin C
Dude, the man was in a coma in the hospital. Do you really think that there was a fear that he would try vitamin C and not seek medical treatment?
Here’s a good look at the ethics of the situation, including details of what the man went through, and how the family had to get lawyers and the HDC involved in what eventually saved his life. (the link shows an ODT article by Grant Gillett, professor of medical ethics at the University of Otago Bioethics Centre)
Hospitals don’t “try it” as there is no evidence that it works in a positive manner in vivo in any variety of cancer patient.
In terms of the occasional anecdotal report as per that provided by PB in a patient with the viral infections supportive data in this group is also lacking.
Medicine is (or at least should be) evidence based – particularly in hospitals. You can’t have people just whacking up any old treatment because it might not do any harm based on anecdotal evidence.
They need to protect themselves as well as the patient and you’d be one death away from a serious issue.
Higherstandard doesn’t make a good point, supplying investigative outcomes to the taking of Vit C orally when the discussion is about high dose intravenous application is not an effective response to what I posted.
“They need to protect themselves aswell…”
Which is precisely why I mentioned that if it does no harm…If it is clear that a patient is not going to be poisoned by the substance, and alongside the information supplied in this thread, that people have responded well to this treatment it appears a shame NOT to try it.
It wasn’t just any old treatment though. It’s a treatment that some physicians use.
Doctor’s prescribe drugs for off label use quite often.
Personally if I was dying, I’d be happy to try any old treatment.
I take your point about hospitals needing to protect themselves. And I agree that drugs should be properly tested But there are also situations where that is not appropriate and this case appears to be one of them.
If you’re taking about high dose iv Vit C as far as I’m aware there is no in vivo data showing it to be efficacious.
I do know there are a couple of GPs supplying it for cancer patients that request it but no one in the hospital system would touch it as it is costly in both time and money for no gain and they have proven interventions to provide.
In response to Weka – would you prefer an intervention that was proven to have a benefit recommended by a specialist prior to “trying anything” ?
Frankly if there was any evidence too support giving it most doctors and PHARMAC would be delighted.
” alongside the information supplied in this thread, that people have responded well to this treatment it appears a shame NOT to try it.”
The information is anecdotal. The scientific evidence, the medical evidence (what scant there is at this time) points to it not being an adequate or proper treatment for any condition neither have any studies proven any efficacy from its application.
In that case any doctor is going to shy away from using anything with any clear studies and research to back it up.
They place to test study such things isn’t by randomly shooting up patients in a hospital because it mightn’t hurt. You need double-blind, studies on a large group with a single methodology and similar doses vs. similar conditions – until such a time that takes place I think it is a good thing our hospitals are not used as laboratories.
“In response to Weka – would you prefer an intervention that was proven to have a benefit recommended by a specialist prior to “trying anything” ?”
I’d prefer it if the medical establishment weren’t so closedminded, or captured by bigpharma. We’ve had decades to get over this chasm between mainstream and alternative medicine. Fault is on both sides, but just because some medical doctors say something doesn’t make it so. They have massive gaps in their knowledge and experience.
Here’s an example. Many people mitigate or completely relieve the effects of arthritis by making changes to their diets. Most doctors will say that there is no connection. I think there may now be some acceptance of taking things like glucosamine, but in general the line is that there is no evidence or even any useful theory. And yet many people are treating themselves and getting good results. Yes, that’s anecdotal, but if the people are feeling better, what is the problem? It’s not that people are self treating with diet. It’s that medical people aren’t taking that seriously and investigating it.
But to answer your question directly, honestly, if I was dying, I would be looking at the available options from within and outside mainstream medicine. Yes, trials and specialists are very useful, but they’re not the be all and end all. Drug trials aren’t the only useful way of knowing what works. As I already commented, off label use of drugs is not uncommon.
btw, I think there is a huge amount of bullshit within the alternative sector too. I just don’t think that doctors are god.
TC, if you are going to make claims for a study, you need to link to the full article. Lots of dubious research going on, even in peer reviewed journals.
I’m not saying this isn’t reliable research (and as stated, I don’t believe that vitamin C can cure cancer), but it’s not enough to present and abstract and ask everyone to trust.
I’m interested to know if you think that the hospital should have refused to give the vit C to the man with bird flu and pneumonia.
I’m interested to know if you think that the hospital should have refused to give the vit C to the man with bird flu and pneumonia.
There was a well publicised case a couple years back of a Kiwi farmer who was almost fatally struck down by swine flu. Made it to TV in fact. His family finally convinced the hospital (AKL hospital?) to give his comatose body huge dosages of vitamin C and he started recovery almost immediately.
The ‘funny’ thing was that every time supervising doctors changed shift a new boss doctor would come onboard and go “WTF? Vitamin C? Get that quackery outta here”. They’d yank the IV lines out and literally, he would start to die again in front of their eyes until the family pleaded enough to restart it.
“Ascorbic acid (vitamin C, ascorbate) has a controversial history in cancer treatment (1). Observational reports described ascorbate, given in pharmacologic doses of 10 g daily, as effective in treating some cancers and in improving patient well-being (2-4).
Subsequently, the same dose had no effect on patient well-being and survival in two double-blind placebo-controlled trials, and ascorbate was discarded as a treatment modality (5, 6).
Recent clinical evidence, however, indicates that the role of ascorbate in cancer treatment should be examined anew (7). THE ORIGINALLY REPORTED OBSERVATIONAL STUDIES USED I.V. AND ORAL ASCORBATE, BUT THE SUBSEQUENT DOUBLE-BLIND PLACEBO-CONTROLLED STUDIES USED ONLY ORAL ASCORBATE. It was not recognized that the route of ascorbate administration might produce large differences in plasma concentrations….Despite inconsistencies, some in vitro studies showed that ascorbate killed cancer cells, although mechanisms and physiologic relevance were unclear (10-12). Complementary and alternative medicine practitioners worldwide currently use ascorbate i.v. in some patients, in part because there is no apparent harm (13-15).” [My emphasis]
“TC, if you are going to make claims for a study, you need to link to the full article. Lots of dubious research going on, even in peer reviewed journals”
I can’t really with this one – it’s a paid service (most medical journals are) and sharing a copy if i did purchase it could possibly break copyright.
“I’m interested to know if you think that the hospital should have refused to give the vit C to the man with bird flu and pneumonia.”
I am not sure to be honest, I wasn’t there and can’t really answer outside yes because it is an untested, non-evidence based treated and no because the man and his family make the ultimate choice in the matter. I can’t really answer.
However, back to the original post, I don’t Penny Bright is particularly, errrr, ‘bright’ in protesting a hospital for not using a technique without sufficient scientific backing.
You just need to link to articles that are open access or have been reviewed elsewhere 😉
btw, a single study of vitamin C used to treat a specific kind of cancer is not evidence that vitamin C has no clinical use at all.
Vitamin C is a registered medicine. It’s use for the man with flu/pneumonia was (presumably) off-label drug use. Is there a reason why that can’t be done again, in a careful considered way?
Well, the burden of proof is on Penny not me. But you are right it isn’t evidence because there is no evidence the Vit. C can do what it claims and you can’t prove a negative.
Actually the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that Vitamin C is not an effective cancer treatment. If you cannot, you’re basing your belief on nothing but hot air.
Evidence that Vitamin C is a viable cancer treatment has been around since 1976,
when double Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling and Scottish surgeon Ewan Cameron showed an unparalleled increase in survival times in terminal cancer patients treated with vitamin C.
Tests confirm that the ascorbate-treated patients and the matched controls are representative subpopulations of the same population of “untreatable” patients. Survival times were measured not only from the date of “untreatability” but also from the precisely known date of first hospital attendance for the cancer that eventually reached the terminal stage. The ascorbate-treated patients were found to have a mean survival time about 300 days greater than that of the controls. Survival times greater than 1 yr after the date of untreatability were observed for 22% of the ascorbate-treated patients and for 0.4% of the controls. The mean survival time of these 22 ascorbate-treated patients is 2.4 yr after reaching the apparently terminal stage; 8 of the ascorbate-treated patients are still alive, with a mean survival time after untreatability of 3.5 yr.
The reason the medical profession don’t recognize such studies is because cancer is a multi million dollar business that would not be anywhere near as profitable if people were encouraged to us a cheap and readily available treatment such as Vitamin C.
The information is anecdotal. The scientific evidence, the medical evidence (what scant there is at this time) points to it not being an adequate or proper treatment for any condition neither have any studies proven any efficacy from its application.
Oh dear… You really are an ignorant doofus! Vitamin C has been used to treat many ailments from Autism to LSD Abuse. It’s an essential vitamin after all that if depleted can cause serious health problems. Vitamin C helps the immune and the detoxification system to function properly. It has also been empirically proven with many peer reviewed scientific studies to help cancer patients.
But don’t let your ignorance stop you from making a fool of yourself TheContrarian.
Wow! That’s your evidence… An article written by Shaun Holt from Tauranga? FFS!
Are you aware that the Mayo Clinic study used relatively low oral doses for short periods, rather than the combination of high oral and intravenous (IV) doses in the Pauling and Cameron study?
Clearly that’s not debunking! It’s the pharmaceutical industry trying and failing to discredit alternative medication that works. Were you also aware that the Mayo Clinic has refused to provide anybody with all their research data so their process can be verified. As a result, the Mayo Clinic study is next to useless!
Besides, in 1982 a study (PDF) by Murata A. Morishige F. Yamaguchi H confirmed Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron’s findings. Administering large doses of ascorbate prolongs survival times of terminal cancer patients.
Ascorbic acid and its salts (AA) are preferentially toxic to tumor cells in vitro and in vivo. Given in high enough doses to maintain plasma concentrations above levels that have been shown to be toxic to tumor cells in vitro, AA has the potential to selectively kill tumor cells in a manner similar to other tumor cytotoxic chemotherapeutic agents. Most studies of AA and cancer to date have not utilized high enough doses of AA to maintain tumor cytotoxic plasma concentrations of AA. Data are presented which demonstrate the ability to sustain plasma levels of AA in humans above levels which are toxic to tumor cells in vitro and suggests the feasibility of using AA as a cytotoxic chemotherapeutic agent.
That initial study by Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron in 1976 was reevaluated and confirmed as correct by them in 1978. In fact its been verified on numerous occasions by institutions and researchers who don’t have a vested interest.
Large dosses of Vitamin C is a proven treatment higherstandard.
BTW, I linked to the wrong study above. The Murata A, Morishige F, Yamaguchi H study states:
Clinical trials administering supplemental ascorbate to terminal cancer patients were conducted at two hospitals in Japan. During the period 1973-1977 there were 99 patients with terminal cancer at the Fukuoka Torikai Hospital. The average times of survival after the date of designation as terminal were 43 days for 44 low-ascorbate patients and 246 days for 55 high-ascorbate patients. Three of the high-ascorbate patients were still alive, their average survival being 1550 days, on April 1, 1980. Similar effectiveness of ascorbate was also observed at the Kamioka Kozan Hospital. There were 31 patients with terminal cancer during the period 1975-1979. The average survival times were 48 days for 19 control patients and 115 days for 6 high-ascorbate patients. One of the high-ascorbate patients was still alive, his survival being 215 days. In addition to the increase in survival times, the administration of large doses of ascorbate seemed to improve the quality of life.
So those three independent studies I’ve linked to, which all have similar results prove nothing? It would seem that just like the doofus you’re only proving your own ignorance HS.
As I’ve said there is no reliable evidence that Vitamin C of any dose has a beneficial effect for patients suffering from tumours.
However if you are unlucky enough to ever be diagnosed with cancer there are a number of places in NZ you can access iv Vitamin C should you think it will be of benefit to you.
I would however suggest you access the more proven and effective mainstream therapies before going down that track.
Why are those studies laughable exactly? People cannot access Vitamin C treatment in a public hospital HS, which was kind of Penny’s point in the first place. PS my names not Todd.
They cannot access Vitamin C in a public hospital due to its lack of proven efficacy, they can access it from a number of alternative medicine clinics around NZ.
Not surprisingly there are no reports from these alternative medicine centres of miraculous outcomes.
I haven’t the time or will power to attempt to educate you on what constitutes a well designed reliable trial but feel free to investigate on google scholar or the like.
I refer to your previous handle which was Todd prior to the Jackal I believe.
You haven’t the time HS because you’re talking shit. Those studies I’ve linked to constitute well designed and reliable research, unlike the piece of rubbish you linked to.
Answer me this if you can. Clearly the pharmaceutical industry has an ulterior motive to show that Vitamin C is not a viable medicine… What would be the ulterior motive for the researchers/scientists who show that high doses of vitamin C can treat cancer? Why would they lie HS?
Todd the studies you linked to were nether blinded, nor randomised according to tumour type, KS or previous treatment chemotherapy.
The commentary I linked to had a number of references at the bottom some of which are to randomised blinded studies if you would care to look the trials showing no effect of Vitamin C have generally been funded via the institution where they have been carried out of via educational grants.
If the pharmaceutical industry had any inkling that vitamin C was useful in cancer or nay other illness they would make minor modifcations in the molecule to make it more efficacious patent it and make a fortune.
I would dearly like vitamin C to be useful in the treatment of cancer due to its low toxicity unfortunately there balance of evidence suggests that this is the case.
Wrong again HS. Many of the studies showing a positive result are clinical trials that don’t actually require blinded testing. However the Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron study used a thousand matched controls. This is used for observational data (i.e. non experimental data).
It’s obvious that you don’t really know what you’re talking about and haven’t even bothered to read that study properly, so here’s the guts of it again:
Analysis of the survival-time curves indicated that deaths occur for about 90% of the ascorbate-treated patients at one third the rate for the controls and that the other 10% have a much greater survival time.
You will find that any studies you’re able to provide that show Vitamin C has no effect on cancer tumors was because they didn’t use it at a high enough dose to achieve plasma concentrations that are generally cytotoxic to tumor cells.
I like your Freudian slip there BTW. On the balance of evidence it really does seem to be the case that Vitamin C is an effective treatment for cancer.
“Many of the studies showing a positive result are clinical trials that don’t actually require blinded testing.”
Todd you don’t have the foggiest idea what you’re talking about, Paulins study has been evaluated and critiqued repeatedly and is still taught in medical shools in relation to poor study design.
To quote the chief of the clinical investigations branch of the National Cancer Institute’s cancer therapy program…..
‘…the vitamin C and control groups had not been properly matched, no data had been published to demonstrate that the patients had been matched by stage of their disease, functional ability, weight loss, and sites of metastasis, all of which are important judging the stage of the disease. Pauling and Cameron’s patients began getting vitamin C when Cameron judged them “untreatable” and their subsequent survival was compared to that of the control patients from the time they had been labeled “untreatable.”
If the two groups were comparable, the average time from the initial diagnosis to “untreatable” status should be similar for both groups. But they were not. Hence Cameron’s patients had been labeled untreatable earlier in the course of their disease and would therefore be expected to live longer, also more than 20% of the patients in the control group had died within a few days of being labeled untreatable, whereas none of Cameron’s patients had died. This, too, suggested that Cameron’s patients had had less advanced disease when they were labeled untreatable…..’
As I’ve said if you are unfortunate enough to be diagnosed with cancer feel free to try alternative methods, I’ll stick with proven therapies.
Apologies for my poor typing this morning phones are shite to type upon.
Your evidence is an article written by Shaun Holt from Tauranga and one Medical Doctor… C’mon HS, surely you can do better than that?
Firstly William D. DeWys “research” does not seem to be available online? Secondly he makes a number of unfounded statements that are easily refuted.
Here’s how the selection process was undertaken:
The original group of matched controls was selected by senior members of the Medical Records Staff in Vale of Leven Hospital, who were asked to produce records of 10 patients for each ascorbate-treated patient matched as to sex, age (to within 5 yr), and tumor type (site of the primary cancer and histological type), without regard as to whether or not death had occurred. The individual case records were then examined by a physician employed for this purpose, Frances Meuli, who first determined the date of untreatability by such conventional standards as the establishment of inoperability at laparotomy, the abandonment of any definitive form of anti-cancer treatment, or the date of admission terminal nursing care and then calculated the survival time from that date until the factually recorded date of death. In carrying out her survey, Meuli was unaware of the survival times of the 100 ascorbate-treated test patients. In order to avoid possible bias, we did not supervise her work closely or attempt to refine it.
Looks like your doctor DeWys is full of shit HS. It would really help the debate if you actually bothered to read the research instead of regurgitating what is obviously false information… But I guess I’m asking for too much?
Pauling however, tended to get more and more bizarre in his claims regarding the utility of Vitamin C. As I’ve said previously if you are unfortunate enough to ever suffer from cancer I’d recommend starting with proven inteventions rather than the like of high dose iv Vitamin C.
DeWys is clearly full of shit HS. The paragraph I’ve quoted from Pauling and Cameron’s reevaluation study totally contradicts what he has said. DeWys claims that it was Linus Pauling himself who chose the test subjects when it was in fact senior members of the Medical Records Staff in Vale of Leven Hospital.
It really comes down to who has a reason to lie… I’ve provided a reason why the pharmaceutical industry would promote false information. I ask again… Why would Pauling and Cameron and all the other scientists and researchers who have shown high doses of Vitamin C can treat cancer lie?
As I’ve said previously if you are unfortunate…
Why do you keep repeating yourself like a broken record HS? This is becoming tedious! Let me know if you can provide some actual evidence that Vitamin C doesn’t work to treat cancer. Until then I think we should just agree to disagree.
Todd, to suggest that this is some cover up by pharmaceutical suppliers is bizarre – Vit C is available from many alternative medical practitioners here and overseas who offer it alone or along with other therapies to persons who are mistrusting of standard treatment or who have no other options. It is not used for the treatment of cancer by the vast majority of oncologists due to there being no compelling data that is efficacious.
I repeat myself as you do not seem to understand that there is no robust evidence to support the use of Vit C in the treatment of cancer and it is wisest to defer to the experts in the field of medical, and radiation oncology for treatment options which have been the subject of more robust scientific study.
Regarding Pauling’s motives I do note that from histories online The Linus Pauling Institute of Science and Medicine was founded in 1973 and operated under that name until 1995 [20]. The institute was dedicated to “orthomolecular medicine.” For many years, its largest corporate donor was Hoffmann-La Roche, the pharmaceutical giant that produces most of the world’s vitamin C. Many of the institute’s fundraising brochures contained questionable information. During the 1980s, for example, they falsely stated that no significant progress had been made in cancer treatment during the previous twenty years.
So you’ve discredited double Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling by providing information from a very dubious website. How do you propose to discredit Murata A, Morishige F, Yamaguchi H, N. H. Riordan, H. D. Riordan, X. Meng, Y. LI and J. A. Jackson, who are just a few of the researchers and scientists that found similar results?
You’re suggesting that there’s some sort of worldwide conspiracy to provide false information about Vitamin C so that manufacturers can sell more. Just to let you know, Acorbate can be purchased for as little as $1 per kg and even less in larger quantities.
In comparison, here’s a breakdown of what cancer treatment costs in the US:
Researchers used data from the Surveillance, Epidemiology, and End-Results (SEER) Medicare database to examine the costs of initial cancer treatments in 306,709 breast, colorectal, lung and prostate cancer patients over the age of 65. These treatments included surgery, chemotherapy, radiation and other hospitalization.
Over the ten-year period studied, the average cost of breast cancer treatment increased $4,189 to $20,964. The average cost of treating prostate cancer increased $5,435 to $41,134, while the average cost of lung cancer treatment went up $7,139 to $39,891.
Nobody is going to get rich from using Vitamin C to treat cancer HS. Which makes the latest twist to your now completely defunct argument laughable!
Not at all, Only Paulings views on cancer and Vitamin C/orthmolecular medicine have been discredited which in his defense he was starting to get somewhat senile towards the end of his life so one cannot really level any serious accusations at him, the vast majority of his scientific work was magnificent this can be said of many famous scientists and even several nobel laureates – I don’t think any of them would claim that every theory they had ever promulgated was correct.
I’m not suggesting there’s any sort of worldwide conspiracy at all, that appears to be your position in relation to the unwillingness of health professionals in particular those in the area of oncology to utilise Vitamin C to treat cancer, my position is that it is not used by health professionals in this setting as it has no utility.
Yes I do realise ascorbate is cheap as are many if not most APIs, this does not mean the actually finished product can be provided to patients cheaply and indeed even if they can be provided to patients cheaply there are unscrupulous individuals such as our own infamous Milan Brych who made fortunes from quackery.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to suggest in relation to cancer costs in the US ?
I cannot find any verifiable information to show that Linus Pauling suffered from senility. You’re not making shit up again are you HS? This is the usual baseless accusations leveled against researchers by people who don’t like the results and have a vested interest in keeping the status quo.
The US cancer treatment costs from 2005 are to show the difference between conventional and alternative treatment using Acorbate. As clearly stated, nobody is going to get rich by using Vitamin C to treat Cancer, and that’s one of the reasons it’s not being utilized. There is therefore no financial reason to promote false information to promote Vitamin C as you believe. You must be suffering a bit of senility yourself if you didn’t understand that HS.
Your contention that Acorbate needs to have extensive changes made so it can be utilized is obviously incorect! The studies show that Acorbate in its present form is effective at treating cancer if administered at high enough doses intravenously and orally.
I’m not suggesting there’s any sort of worldwide conspiracy at all.
Then how do you explain the researchers and scientists listed above having the same results as Linus Pauling’s study if it’s not a conspiracy between them?
In contrast, I think it is a deplorable conspiracy to not generally use a cheap and effective alternative medication to treat a disease that one in three Kiwis will suffer from. Clearly there’s a profit motive to repressing an inexpensive medication and pharmaceutical companies are not beyond reproach. For instance Glaxo Smith and Kline was recently fined $3 billion for putting peoples lives in danger purely to make money. That criminal proceeding was an isolated case lost in a sea of medical corruption.
Whether you like it or not HS, there is robust evidence that shows categorically that high doses of Vitamin C is effective at treating cancer. I’ve provided some of this information here to which you’ve not adequately responded. That’s because there’s far more scientific research that shows Vitamin C is an effective treatment than says it isn’t.
Therefore there is a consensus amongst scientists that it works… It just needs to be recognized by medical practitioners, who unfortunately are in the pocket of big pharmaceutical companies. Until their profit motive to use inferior and more expensive medications is addressed, cancer patients will continue to not have ready access to an a proven and inexpensive treatment that works.
You still have not linked to DeWys’ “research” that apparently discredits the Reevaluation of prolongation of survival times in terminal human cancer? Making claims that are unverifiable is what quackery is all about. But feel free to keep quacking if you like HS.
There’s really little point in trying to educate you on the methodologies and rationale supported by vast amounts of reputable, repeatable and robust clinical research for treating the various types of cancers they way we do and the various costs associated with either surgery, radiation and chemotherapy or combinations of all three as you appear set in your mind set that it’s all a massive conspiracy by company/s and person’s unknown who’ve duped the medical profession, regulators and scientists into treating cancer patients how we do rather than with Vitamin C.
It’s not odd at all to believe that the majority of studies into using Vitamin C to treat cancer are correct. If people just accepted the status quo as it is, we would never have any progress at all.
I don’t know why you bother to continue this debate with Higher Than a Kite, for despite having provided it with plenty of reasoned argument, AND evidence it continues to ignore you and bang on about “there being no evidence” when both you and myself provided substantial evidence that it has been an effective treatment. (the evidence I provided indicated that it would be worth further investigation).
Science would have gotten nowhere if the view prevailed that anything that hasn’t been fully scientifically evaluated doesn’t exist and is of no effect.
That it is now deemed only those with money are allowed the privilege to decide what gets scientifically evaluated or not, and that that decision is left to their poor imaginations as to what will lead to profit and what won’t, then methinks this situation is going to lead us to less and less discoveries.
BL and Todd are either of you are qualified cancer specialists, clinicians of any sort or do you have science background ?
The evidence that Vitamin C has any utility in the treatment of cancer has not been demonstrated in any useful manner the interventions which are used in the treatment of cancer have been proven useful in modern blinded trials which is why those treating patients with cancer utilise these proven interventions and continue to treat and trial new interventions which may improve patient outcomes this has lead to major advances in the outcomes of patients with many tumour types over the last several decades
“Recent clinical evidence, however, indicates that the role of ascorbate in cancer treatment should be examined anew …Despite inconsistencies, some in vitro studies showed that ascorbate killed cancer cells, although mechanisms and physiologic relevance were unclear “
No well designed in vivo studies have shown a benefit of vitamin c in the treatment of cancer.
The thing that irked me about the comment by TJ was…
‘The reason the medical profession don’t recognize such studies is because cancer is a multi million dollar business that would not be anywhere near as profitable if people were encouraged to us a cheap and readily available treatment such as Vitamin C.’
To suggest that oncologists only utilise surgery, radiotherapy and chemotherapy to treat cancer due to some profit motive is offensive.
To suggest that oncologists only utilise surgery, radiotherapy and chemotherapy to treat cancer due to some profit motive is offensive.
Agreed. They utilise those methods because its the only options those practitioners are exposed to in their training and the only options they are given in a hospital setting.
The filtering happens faraway at the business case level in the big pharma and medical device corporates. There is nothing patentable or profitable about IV Vit C so no surprise it goes no where.
Yes that’s obviously the reason, all clinicians, regulatory authorities, researchers, patient advocacy groups and QANGOS such as PHARMAC have been duped.
PS I am being sarcastic as this is about as useful as debating 9/11 with Eve.
hs – don’t be a dick. I stated very clearly that the decisions are made BEFORE it gets to PHARMAC or any front line clinicians. Don’t go intellectually blind on me all of a sudden and refuse to think by hiding behind the Twin Towers.
You seem to be trying to say that pharmaceutical corporates don’t assess potential products for profitability before committing to their development, and that they don’t cull out all but the most financially promising treatment candidates/areas of health. Of course they do. They are profit driven private enterprises.
Its why we have a shitload ofexpensive drugs to deal with important health problems like Developed World Impotence and Developed World Obesity, and fuck all antibiotics for the 3rd world.
CV I’m not being a dick just frustrated that persons such as yourself continue to spread such inanity and false hope and then seek to accuse some dark motive and cover up as the obvious rationale as to why no one heeds your advice.
for your information the WHO via a number of pharmaceutical companies in india and the like supplies anti virals, anti biotics and other medical supplies into the third world at very reasonable pricing.
Similarly R&D in the pharmaceutical arena is carried out less and less by the huge pharmaceutical players as they are Dilbert like and more and more by very small researchers like those we have in Dunedin, Wellington and Auckland.
Phase 1 and 11 research has been and is being carried out with iv Vitamin C by laboratories under the auspices of the NCI in a number of tumour types with less than exciting results.
If it worked, Pharmac would demand it be used. Just like they demand the cheapest of any other drug be used, if mostly effective. This is the problem patients whose meds don’t relieve their disease face – Pharmac will not sign up to expensive drugs if there are, in their opinion, cheaper alternatives that suit most people. If there was evidence Vitamin C worked Pharmac would be all over it.
A case of watch this space if Vit C is proved useful.
There is an issue regarding what gets studied. I.e something may be effective, yet not so easily capitalized on therefore something that IS easier to capitalize on will be chosen over it.
Blue Leopard, I understand your issues with pharmaceutical corporations, and it is valid in a profit-driven health service, but I think you’ve missed the point entirely. Pharmac have been shown to be quite willing to dump big pharma and it’s take on research outcomes to save money. That’s Pharmac’s brief. Keep the population provided with the drugs required, but at the cheapest possible price. The Herceptin issue is a case in point. So is funding for advanced auto-immune disease suppressants.
Pharmac will also fund research if they think a drugs regime that big pharma doesn’t want will save money. Once again the Herceptin debate is a good example. Pharmac will not rule out vitamin C if it thinks there is a chance that it will be effective at a cheaper price than any other drug. And with Vitamin C, that would have to be about all of them (barring, maybe, methotrexate and similar very old chemotherapy drugs). It simply makes no sense that Pharmac would abandon this model to avoid using Vitamin C if it was effective.
Its good to here that about Pharmac, however it would appear that if the rigorous clinical trials have not been conducted, I suspect that Pharmac could not follow the course of action you are suggesting they do.
From what you say, however, hopefully when word finally gets to them of the following studies, they might fund the further clinical trials recommended on the matter:
Pharmacologic ascorbic acid concentrations selectively kill cancer cells: action as a pro-drug to deliver hydrogen peroxide to tissues:
Cystic Fybrosis barely understandable however scroll to ‘discussion’
“Several candidate molecules have been shown to be effective CFTR activators in vitro or in vivo (35); however, the majority of compounds that activate CFTR have additional pharmacological effects, whereas vitamin C is on the FDA’s list of substances generally recognized as safe, and mega-doses of vitamin C (up to 2.5 g/day) are well tolerated (33). Our study highlights the potential therapeutic use of vitamin C as a safe, nontoxic, and efficacious small molecule for the activation of CFTR-mediated Cl transport in epithelia.”
I do believe there are issues surrounding scientific study that can warp outcomes.
I provide a link about the issue which describes the summary of a report written by UCS (Union of Concerned Scientists)
One thing that they don’t mention, which I have seen conveyed regarding scientific study is that the required finance will often flow where the most profits are to be had (understandable self interest in the part of investors, however this can lead to some areas of knowledge lacking the investigation it deserves)
No Jackal, you have it all wrong. The Burden of Proof lies on someone making the positive claim i.e. Vitamin C is a viable cancer treatment. I didn’t make that claim, you and Penny have therefore the Burden on Proof is on you.
Specifically that ‘Under Attack section which lists an example of the burden of proof fallacy as thus,
“I don’t need to prove my claim – you must proof it is false”.
Hence your comment:
“…the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that Vitamin C is not an effective cancer treatment…”
is logically invalid.
No Jackal, you have it all wrong. The Burden of Proof lies on someone making the positive claim i.e. Vitamin C is a viable cancer treatment. I didn’t make that claim, you and Penny have therefore the Burden on Proof is on you.
Those are peer reviewed studies. Three studies saying Vitamin C works to treat cancer compared to your none saying it doesn’t work… Are you guys being stupid on purpose?
Fisi anal Not true when it comes to this disease Alan Smith was in a coma for along time and everything they threw at him antibiotics etc did not work however after a short spell on high dose vitamin C he recovered miraculously Research in this area has not been carried out to completely dismiss it would be foolish.
Some of the inaudible parts of the speech in the press release would look just as legit if they were redactions. eg “we will be doing it in (inaudible) but we hope (inaudible) look after its own security.” Hmmm..?
actually, there is a new potential warlord in town, so chew on those noodles
Christchurch: It was cold, and the servants and officials stood around a fire they had made to keep warm. Peter also was standing with them, warming himself.
As Simon Peter stood warming him-self, he was asked, “You are not one of his disciples, are you?
He denied it, saying, “I am not.”
“What is truth?” Pilate asked.
(u could not make this stuff up)
🙂
I hope that, on top of all the concern shown about child poverty, people will not have missed the dismal news of the rise in youth suicide (including at least one preteen child). Since the last quarter, suicides of those aged between 20 and 24 have risen from 11.4% to 13.5%; Ages between 15 and 19 have risen from from 25.5% to 27.5%.
There will be a number of causes, largely on account of government “policies”, but 28% of the dead were unemployed, many depressed. Back in May, our youth unemployment had the 19th highest rate in OECD countries. Co-founder of the Foundation for Youth Development (FYD), Graeme Dingle, says “Youth unemployment is a growing issue and one that will have a huge impact on the country. If it is left to fester the cost is simply unaffordable in the long run.””
Key boasts today of devoting 62 million dollars to problems of youth, but fails to mention this is to cover a four year period.
Many will be tempted to think, “well, these figures reflect only upon Maori, so what?” Maori and Pakeha are all together citizens of Aotearoa/New Zealand, suicides (whatever the cause) are not to be fixed upon any one race.
We have no idea, of course, of the huge number of attempted and unsuccessful suicides, hospitalised or covered up. How many were due to undue risks, for example in the road toll? Countless people are engaging in “suicidal living patterns”.
Very many human beings have little, if any, conscience or compassion, we have to accept that this is the fact. But, at the least, people might be bothered for basic economical reasons.
The experts in this field will have some sort of formula with which to get a rough idea of failed attempts v “successful” attempts. I have no idea where you would find this for NZ, unfortunately.
A WHO study estimates in Cananda 80-90% of suicide attempts fail.
Dr Terry wrote ” Since the last quarter, suicides of those aged between 20 and 24 have risen from 11.4% to 13.5%; Ages between 15 and 19 have risen from from 25.5% to 27.5%. ”
I dont understand these figures. 25-27% of those aged 15-19 commit suicide?
Yes it sounds shockingly high to say that almost one third of particular group are suicidal. Maybe they are. Otherwise the percentage increase relates to the figure of the period before, though in this case not supplied, i.e. let’s says 10 people died last year, and this year 12 or 13 people died; an increase on 10 by 27.5%
Clashman. For better accuracy, I suggest you research on Google. Sorry if my figures are misleading. I want only to point very clearly to the seriousness of the situation. What you quote from a Canadian source is probably fairly accurate for our society too.
From a quick look here; http://socialreport.msd.govt.nz/health/suicide.html it seems the figures should be per 100,000, not percentages.
That makes alot more sense to me.
I’m certainly not trying to diminish the seriousness of the situation, I just couldn’t get my head around the figuresquoted.
From memory, the latest coroner release might have been saying that 27% of those who committed suicide were aged 15-19.
But the point is valid – the government might hand-wring when attention is paid to the issue, but they sure won’t bother addressing any of the contributing factors (not solely economic, not solely counselling availability or bullying – it’s a very complex issue). I’m pretty sure this government will avoid 9 out of 10 of any identified possible contributing solutions, choosing only the least expensive tenth. But they’ll announce it 9 ties.
Here’s erstwhile suicide advocate Michael Laws this morning on Radio Live, putting on his deadly serious low voice, pretending to be compassionate and concerned about teen suicide: “I sometimes wonder if we shouldn’t show the faces of the hanging corpses.”
The woman caller on the other end of the line, obviously horrified, gasped, “Oh NO.”
And Family First, as part of it’s Marriage campaign, scores an own goal by trying to mock and satirise the high level of suicide amongst young LGBT people:
Family First is being slammed for “making light of youth suicide in New Zealand” within a blog post which compares the fight for marriage equality to rugby and soccer.
Many will be tempted to think, “well, these figures reflect only upon Maori, so what?
Excuse me, WTF? It’s not only Maori, never has been and never will be…
The child who killed himself was non-Maori, and while there are proportionally fewer unemployed white people than there are unemployed Maori, there are still a huge number of unemployed white people.
It’s very unhelpful to make out that it’s all about Maori… as it’s equally unhelpful to say it’s all about yoof. To use a phrase that makes my teeth ache but it nevertheless true – older, white unemployed people, and older white people who kill themselves, are ‘doubly invisible’, as for various reasons the media really don’t get too exercised about white unemployed people, or non-yoof suicides. Disclosure: A family member, a white man in his forties committed suicide 8 years ago, and I was stunned. The media, awareness groups etc had me convinced that a 40-something suiciding was so unlikely as to be impossible…
The point is, our ability to broadcast was entirely dependent on poorly-programmed bots. And once those bots had made their incorrect decision, there was absolutely nothing we could do to restart the signal, as it were. In case anyone still believes that copyright rules can’t stop free speech or snuff out a community, the automated censorship of the Hugo Awards is a case in point.
Robots killed our legitimate broadcast. Welcome to the present.
Someone should ask John Key about his former mates are up to …
“Even as Greece desperately tries to avoid defaulting on its debt, American companies are preparing for what was once unthinkable: that Greece could soon be forced to leave the euro zone.
Bank of America Merrill Lynch has looked into filling trucks with cash and sending them over the Greek border so clients can continue to pay local employees and suppliers in the event money is unavailable.”
Aye. How long before the local entrepreneur is the one who ‘got ahead’ enough to afford an entire bottle of cooking oil that can then on-sold for a profit in ‘single meal worth’ polythene sachets?
Okay. Perhaps quite some way off.
But did you notice when they began selling 400g blocks of butter in competition with the 500g blocks at the ‘old’ 500g price? Or those 750g blocks of cheese that were all of a sudden available beside the 1 kg blocks at a price comparable with the ‘old’ 1 kg price? Or what about the air pumped into chocolate bars that kept the size and price (but not the weight) the same? Or how about charity shops rebranding as retail outlets?
There was only one explanation: equating marginal cost and marginal revenue couldn’t be profit-maximizing behavior.
No, it’s not. It’s actually profit minimising behaviour. It’s the one I like to twit neo-classical economists with because it uses their own theory to prove that profit is a dead weight loss.
As Steve Keen says in his book, profit maximising firms (both monopoly and competition) will produce the same output. This leaves the firm in a competitive market with increased market share as the only option to increase profit and they can only do that if they lower the selling price which must lower profits for that firm. As each competitive firm will be doing the same thing the end result must, logically, be where marginal cost and marginal revenue are equal resulting in both the maximum output and minimum profit – in theory.
At that point the firm should be able to maintain itself (income = costs) and the people working there but it won’t be paying out dividends to shareholders. Thus cost cutting usually comes in so that profitability and dividends can be returned resulting, most likely, in the redundancies of workers and a decline in product going to market pushing prices and profits back up again. Unfortunately, the cost cutting has also resulted in a decrease in market demand from the redundancies. After that, it gets complicated…
There are two things that I take from this:
1.) For numerous sectors a well regulated and government owned monopoly will be the better option than competition as competition adds it’s own costs (unnecessary duplication and an even more convoluted regulatory system for starters) that society can do without. This seems especially true of natural monopolies such as telecommunications and power.
2.) Competition isn’t there to lower prices as the neo-classicals believe but to lower profits but it doesn’t work because A) we don’t have a perfectly competitive market B) corruption becomes an accepted means to maintain profits (i.e. collusion/cartel behaviour and cronyism) C) speculation for easy and high profits in the financial system replaces actually making stuff (especially in places where the market is saturated) and D) Firms are trying to maximise profit and not minimise it.
This all results in a few mega corporations ruling the market with small companies being kept out and the dead weight loss of profit still hurting everybody.
in another time they might have been called robber barons.
now they are just robbers.
stealing from ALL THE PEOPLE TO Pay for heka paratai and john banks juvenile fantasies of omnipotence.
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"Who's youse accusin' of innference?" Without the timely intervention of a team of top American political consultants and campaign experts, Boris Yeltsin would never have won his second term as President of the Russian Federation. The Russians waited 20 years to return the favour.WHEN IT COMES to the disinformation game, ...
As polling day in the American presidential election draws closer, things are looking bad for Donald Trump. The polls show that he is tracking well behind his Democrat rival. Most people assume that the President will be striving might and main to avoid what looks increasingly likely to be a ...
Our health professionals do an amazing job. Image credit: Wikipedia – Cardiac surgery. Finally, I have got back to these rankings. A long period in hospital and computer problems meant the June 2020 rankings were abandoned. Now, with a new personal defibrillator implanted in my chest and a new hard ...
A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, July 26 through Sat, Aug 1, 2020Editor's ChoiceThe four types of climate denier, and why you should ignore them allThe shill, the grifter, the egomaniac and the ideological ...
Over the last few days, reports have emerged of people travelling from New Zealand and testing positive for Covid-19 upon arrival at their destination. First in South Korea and now in Australia. What might these positive tests mean?They’re false-positives As Toby Morris and I have explained before, there are ...
Former National Minister - Wayne MappYou could tell that the Hit and Run book by investigative journalists Nicky Hager and Jon Stephenson was right on the money by the way former National Party Minister of Defence, Wayne Mapp, reacted to its now largely vindicated claims.Even though the recent inquiry into ...
So, the Hit and Run inquiry has reported back, and found some appalling shit at NZDF and NZSIS. And while they quibble a few of the details - the name of a dead child - they basicly uphold Hager and Stephenson's version of events. The SAS went to those villages. ...
We are failing to think though the interdependencies in an economy. We miss economist Bryan Philpott (1921-2000). I miss him personally – we used to have such great discussions – but this column is about how the nation misses his economic experience and wisdom. We tend to ...
Michelle Boag - LeakerThe Heron report (PDF) was released yesterday, and it was a bit disappointing to say the least. It correctly found that former National Party president Michelle Boag and National Party MP Hamish Walker were politically motivated in leaking peoples private medical information, but didn’t look further into ...
On different trajectories and from different ends of the political spectrum, last night’s One News/Colmar Brunton poll has the Green Party and ACT converging around the five percent mark. And, as odd as it may sound, they head into the election campaign with a lot in common.Putting the Greens and ...
Janet Stephenson, University of OtagoA proposed multibillion-dollar project to build a pumped hydro storage plant could make New Zealand’s electricity grid 100% renewable, but expensive new infrastructure may not be the best way to achieve this. New Zealand’s electricity generation is already around 80% renewable, with just over half ...
Truth In Advertising: Labour, it would seem, is the party that knows nothing about running the economy right up until the moment that it does. HOW DID LABOUR acquire its reputation for being a poor economic manager? As with most things political and historical, it’s a long story.In the beginning, the ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections Government rulemakers looking to decide how much money to spend to avoid adding more greenhouse gases to the atmosphere need a good estimate of what a warming climate will cost in social damages, for example through more extreme weather events. That point makes ...
Fact Check: New Zealand’s own relationship with China might, however, be salvageable if our own Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade was willing to equip its minister, Winston Peters, with a few facts. Legislating for the protection of national security – the very action our Foreign Minister is decrying – ...
I hope we can all agree that charging only certain returning expats for isolation costs is the right call. Instead of a blanket fee, which may have resulted in a small number of Kiwis deciding not to return home because of financial reasons, the Government has chosen to implement a ...
Back at the beginning of this government, the Greens made a foolish decision to support the Electoral Integrity Act - demanded by Winston Peters to keep his own backbench in line as part of his coalition deal with Labour - as an act of good faith within the coalition. It ...
SATURDAY AUGUST 1Artefact (Prime, 7.30pm). The series presented by Dame Anne Salmond screened on Māori Television, but is totally worth revisiting if you saw it the first time. Dame Anne tells the stories of taonga that highlight the history of Aotearoa. Further reading: this 2013 interview with Dame Anne by the lovely ...
Have unions and the Government sold workers short with their attempt at fixing the so-called “Hobbit Law”? Unionist Ian Powell argues that the union movement has been outmanoeuvered, and the Government has agreed to a new piece of anti-worker legislation that retains the principles of the previous National Government’s hated ...
Most of the claims made by anti-fluoride propagandists are simply wrong. Image source:Fluoridation and the ‘sciency’ facts of critics Anti-fluoride propagandists continually cite studies from areas of endemic fluorosis in their arguments against ...
An article in the EETimes suggests that advances in autonomous vehicles are not moving as quickly as expected because those working on them have confused complicated problems with complex ones. Engineering can only take you so far in complex worlds. Complicated systems tend to have fairly predictable inputs, processes and outputs. Complex systems (like ...
Last week, after Judith Collins announced that National would be cruel and vicious to kiwis caught overseas by the pandemic, and rob them at the border if they returned home, Labour looked like it was falling all over itself to cry "me too". But now, it looks like kindness has ...
If entry into New Zealand from abroad is safe, it should be allowed. People arriving from places that are Covid-free, or no more risky than New Zealand, and who get here on flights that do not intersect with risky places, should return to normal travel arrangements. Currently, the Cook ...
Liz SlootenScientists from the University of Otago, working with colleagues from around the world, have found that New Zealand right whales are doing much better than right whales in other parts of the world. The research was published as the feature article in the journal Marine Ecology Progress ...
Back in 2019, the government asked for a comprehensive, independent review of the Resource Management Act and associated legislation. That review has now reported back and recommended a complete repeal and re-enactment. Despite the headlines, this is not a "scrapping" - we're still going to have a resource management law, ...
By Associate Professor Mik Black, Department of Biochemistry, University of OtagoThe increased availability of complex biological data sets means that analysis and computation are becoming critically important skills for New Zealand’s future scientists. Because of this, we need to be doing everything we can to help our students develop ...
Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change.If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nzIs humanity doomed? If in 2030 we have not reduced ...
Britain's spy agencies are supposedly overseen by various watchdogs, including the investigatory powers tribunal. But it turns out that MI6 at least has contempt for those watchdogs, and attempted to interfere with the operations of the tribunal by concealing evidence from its judges: MI6 has been accused of “inappropriate interference” ...
Daphna Whitmore So far this year over 7.4 million people have died from preventable communicable diseases. There were 4.3 million children who died under the age of five. Nearly one million people have died of HIV/AIDS in the past six months. A similar number of people have died from malaria ...
Four weeks ago I wrote about the last time a sizable asteroid hit our planet – the ‘Tunguska Event’ of 1908, when an object about 50 metres across exploded above the Siberian taiga – but smaller cosmic rocks shoot close by Earth fairly frequently. In the past 42 hours ...
Last month, China imposed a new "national security law" on Hong Kong. The law imposes a penalty of life imprisonment for secession, subversion, and "colluding with foreign forces" - which basicly means peacefully advocating for democracy or independence. It has been used to crush peaceful protests and interpreted by the ...
Powerful Connection: Neoliberalism is the antithesis of everything that has traditionally been associated with the feminine aspects of human nature. Kindness and compassion, nurturance and inclusiveness: such qualities have no place in the neoliberal order. When Jacinda proclaimed her determination to practice the “politics of kindness”, she was, wittingly or ...
The bad news: Jacinda Ardern still wants to bill exiled kiwis for returning home. The good news: it would require a law change, which the Greens won't back, so she'll need to go grovelling to National. The other good news: she's running out of time to do it. This ...
. . For the mainstream media, today (22 July) was even a better day than yesterday. More Sex. More Politics. More Sex AND Politics. Yesterday, the msm dealt with Andrew Falloon. The obscure backbench MP had been found to have sent pornographic images to at least four women. The woman’s ...
If you want to understand what is happening in this year’s election campaign, it’s worth looking to the past for guidance. Colin James delves into recent contests and finds some interesting parallels. July 28 is 53 days before the 2020 election. Just 53 days before the 2017 election ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Jeff Masters Wildfires burned much less acreage in the U.S. than average during the first half of the year, but with hot and dry conditions expected over much of the nation in the coming months, fire activity is likely to ramp up. ...
Today a full bench of the High Court is hearing Andrew Borrowdale's challenge to the legality of the COVID-19 lockdown. That lockdown ended two months ago, so the point seems moot - but it was never about ending it. Instead, as Andrew Geddis points out, its about a key principle ...
So far, this has been a relatively policy-free election campaign. The government has been trying to keep a low profile, on the basis that anything they say will only piss someone off, so better to say as little as possible. When its not knifing its leader, National has promised roads, ...
I hardly ever comment on polls, because horse-race politics is superficial and boring and most changes are statistically meaningless and so unworthy of attention (let alone the excitement they provoke amongst mathematically illiterate political journalists desperate to fill airtime). But we've now had two polls in a row showing Labour ...
The Finance and Expenditure Committee has reported back on its inquiry into the operation of the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act 2020. As you'd expect, they find that the law was "necessary and appropriate", but would like to see a permanent replacement providing for health emergency powers as the Health ...
Story of the Week... Toon of the Week... John Cook in the News... Coming Soon on SkS... Climate Feedback Claim Review... SkS Week in Review... Poster of the Week... Story of the Week... Major new climate study rules out less severe global warming scenariosAn analysis finds the most ...
It hasn’t taken long for the advent of Judith Collins as National party leader to change the tone of the political debate. After several days of headlines and airwaves dominated by reports of a National MP sending pornographic images to young women, the National leader had had enough of that ...
Don Franks An already fired up general election looks like getting even edgier. When final votes have been counted, a rather unlikely coalition government now seems possible As National and Labour implode with sexual proclivities while New Zealand First fling their last toys from the cot, others show more maturity. ...
A chronological listing of news articles linked to on the Skeptical Science Facebook Page during the past week: Sun, July 19 through Sat, July 25, 2020Editor's ChoiceThe Climate Expert Who Delivered News No One Wanted to Hear From 2009: How a scientist known as the “father of global ...
There’s ultimately two key narratives overall that are seeking to take front row in order to reshape the world as a whole going forward from the COVID pandemic. The first is a very desperate attempt to reimpose “a return” to what is perceived as “the old normal”, quite impossible. ...
Henry Anderson-Elliott, University of CambridgeOn the morning of August 31 2017, I didn’t meet a remarkable polar bear. It was my third week of fieldwork-based out of Longyearbyen, Spitsbergen, studying the conservation of the bears on the Svalbard archipelago in Norway. Having spent a few days transcribing interviews in ...
SUNDAY JULY 26Country Calendar (TVNZ 1, 7.00pm). Tonight, kiwifruit growing in the King Country. Crazy!Normal People (TVNZ 1, 10.30pm). Holy cow, if you thought it was slow on a binge-watch, imagine what it's like in weekly doses. Nevertheless, it's like Richard Linklater's Boyhood – you don't really see the scope of ...
. . “The Martians had no resistance to the bacteria in our atmosphere to which we have long since become immune. Once they had breathed our air, germs, which no longer affect us, began to kill them. The end came swiftly. All over the world, their machines began to stop ...
With the June 2020 quarter showing underemployment increasing, the Green Party is calling for a Guaranteed Minimum Income and an increase to the abatement threshold to ensure everyone has a dignified income. ...
We went hard and we went early in our health response to COVID-19, and we did everything we could to cushion the economic impact too. In fact, we can fill every letter of the alphabet with the steps we took to fight COVID-19 and ensure we were in a position ...
Investing in our people, backing businesses, and upgrading infrastructure and housing throughout the country - it's been another week of progress for New Zealanders as we deliver our plan to recover and rebuild. ...
July was another busy month, packed with key investments aimed at progressing our economic recovery as we rebuild New Zealand. We extended support for businesses, helped create jobs through local infrastructure projects, and kept working to clean up our waterways so Kiwis can access safe clean water. Check out the ...
The Green Party is calling for the Defence Force Chiefs in place between 2010-2017 to front up and explain how dishonesty, process and policy failures within the Defence Force led to ‘a series of incorrect statements in briefings to ministers and public releases’ regarding alleged breaches of international torture prevention ...
Thanks to our strong health response, New Zealand’s economy is more open than many other countries. But as COVID continues to surge around the world, the economic consequences of the virus will continue to be a challenge, which is why we have a detailed plan to help New Zealand bounce ...
Thanks to our strong health response, New Zealand’s economy is more open than many other countries. But as COVID continues to surge around the world, the economic consequences of the virus will continue to be a challenge, which is why we have a detailed plan to help New Zealand bounce ...
The Green Party are ensuring that New Zealanders who were overseas when COVID-19 hit will not be charged for the cost of isolation or quarantine if they return home to live. ...
It's been another week of creating jobs, supporting local businesses, and investing in infrastructure up and down the country - all of which are helping to keep our economy moving post-COVID-19. ...
Law changes to end tenure review and provide for better management of Crown pastoral lands in the South Island high country were considered by Parliament today with the first reading of the Crown Pastoral Land Reform Bill says Minister for Land Information, Eugenie Sage. ...
The Green Party have secured legislative amendments in a bill expected to pass third reading this week, to ensure better rules for school teachers and staff, so they can de-escalate children with diverse needs and cognitive differences, such as autism, rather than using unnecessary and often traumatising force. ...
New Zealand needs to be more aggressive in pursuing economic opportunities and resist the short-term thinking affecting some of its major industry, Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters says.Mr Peters told Wellington Chamber of Commerce members this morning that the planned closure of the Tiwai Point aluminium smelter will have ...
Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters has ridiculed the National Party "circus", with the politician saying it was in "chaos" after the resignation of another MP.Rangitata MP Andrew Falloon announced on Monday he would retire from politics after he allegedly sent inappropriate pornographic images to a young woman. Following a ...
Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters today outlined what he saw as the requirements to re-open New Zealand's borders for tourists and travellers. If New Zealand was dealing solely with an Australian state such as Tasmania, we wouldn't need a vaccine, said Mr Peters, but these moves were complicated by the ...
New Zealand First leader Winston Peters appears to have prompted last-minute alterations to proposed legislation for commercial landlords and their tenants. Mr Peters told reporters on Wednesday said that he was making sure the proposed bill was in step with what the parties had actually agreed to. He said he ...
Associate Minister for State Owned Enterprise and New Zealand First List MP Shane Jones attended the groundbreaking ceremony for the new NZ Post "super depot" in Wellington. The state-owned postal service, which got $280 million from the Coalition Government last month, is expanding its operations to handle surging parcel volumes. ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Leader of New Zealand First CHECK AGAINST DELIVERYIntroduction Good afternoon. Welcome to you all here today and party supporters watching from around the country. We appreciate your hard work keeping New Zealand First strong; thank you for keeping the faith. Sixty-three days out from Election Day, ...
The diversity of conservation boards around Aotearoa is increasing with 47 appointments to 14 of the 15 conservation boards across New Zealand announced today by the Conservation Minister Eugenie Sage. ...
The Green Party is honoured to be remembering former co-leader Jeanette Fitzsimons today at a public memorial service in the heart of Wellington at the Cathedral of St. Paul’s. Following her passing in March, this celebration of her life brings together her friends, family and colleagues to honour her life ...
Conservation Minister Eugenie Sage has announced a $2.5 million boost for South Westland to help a regional alliance of local businesses and government agencies provide nature based jobs. ...
Investing in infrastructure is one major way we can create jobs, stimulate the economy, and keep New Zealand moving post COVID-19. That's why this week we rolled out a massive number of infrastructure announcements - in Tairāwhiti, Wairarapa, Otago, Southland and more! ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Leader of New Zealand First New Zealand First Leader Winston Peters says the National Party’s Auckland Transport announcement today is a breath-taking plan on the never never. While it is promising to see that National all of a sudden has rediscovered railways in Auckland, including trains ...
The Government has delivered on its promise to New Zealanders to modernise tenancy laws with the passing of the Residential Tenancies Amendment (RTA) Bill 2020 today, says Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing), Kris Faafoi. “The Residential Tenancies Act 1986 was out-dated and the reforms in the RTA modernise our ...
New rules to protect and restore New Zealand’s freshwater passed into law today. Environment Minister David Parker and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor welcomed the gazetting of the new national direction on freshwater management. “These regulations deliver on the Government’s commitment to stop further degradation, show material improvements within five years and ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has announced the appointment of Jeremy Clarke-Watson as New Zealand’s new Consul-General in Los Angeles. “New Zealand and the United States share a close and dynamic partnership, based on a long history of shared values and democratic traditions,” Mr Peters said. “Mr Clarke-Watson is a ...
Victims of family violence can end a tenancy with two days’ notice Landlords can terminate tenancies with 14 days’ notice if tenants assault them Timeframe brought forward for limiting rent increases to once every 12 months Extension of time Tenancy Tribunal can hear cases via phone/video conference Reform of New ...
Two employment schemes – one new and one expanded – going live today will help tens of thousands of people continue training on the job and support thousands more into work, the Government has announced. Apprenticeship Boost, a subsidy of up to $12,000 per annum for first year apprentices and ...
The Government is funding a significant infrastructure package at Omokoroa which will create 150 new jobs and help transform the Western Bay of Plenty peninsula, Urban Development Minister Phil Twyford announced today. Phil Twyford says the Government is investing $14 million towards the $28 million roading and water package. This ...
The Bill allowing the Government to recover some costs for managed isolation and quarantine passed its third reading today, with charges coming into force as soon as regulations are finalised. Putting regulations into force is the next step. “The COVID-19 Public Health Response Amendment Bill and its supporting regulations will ...
Today’s unemployment data shows the Government’s plan to protect jobs and cushion the blow for businesses and households against the economic impact of COVID-19 was the right decision, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. Stats NZ said today that New Zealand’s unemployment rate in the June quarter – which includes the ...
A new role of New Zealand Reading Ambassador for children and young people is being established, Prime Minister and Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Jacinda Ardern and Minister for Internal Affairs and for Children, Tracey Martin announced today. The Reading Ambassador, announced at a Celebration of Reading event at ...
Community Law Centres will receive a funding boost to meet the increased need for free legal services due to COVID-19, Justice Minister Andrew Little said. The $3.5m funding is for the next three financial years and is additional to the almost $8 million for Community Law Centres announced in Budget ...
New Zealand has joined Canada and Chile in a new trade initiative aimed at increasing women’s participation in global trade. Trade and Export Growth Minister David Parker, together with Canada’s Minister for Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade Mary Ng, Chile’s Minister of Foreign Affairs Andrés Allamand, and Chile’s Vice ...
Building owners around New Zealand have benefited from the latest round of Heritage EQUIP funding with grants totalling $2,230,166. “The Heritage EQUIP grants for seismic strengthening assist private building owners to get the professional advice they need to go ahead with their projects or support them to carry out the ...
• New paediatric facilities, including a Special Baby Care Unit • Up to 50 extra inpatient beds • New lab facilities Northland babies and their whānau will soon have access to improved hospital care when they need it with Health Minister Chris Hipkins today confirming new paediatric facilities and more ...
People walking and cycling between Featherston and Greytown, or along Wellington’s Eastern Bays will soon have a safe shared path, as part of a $220 million shovel-ready cycleways package announced by Associate Transport Minister Julie Anne Genter. “During lockdown we saw many more families and kids out on their bikes, ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters today extended New Zealand’s condolences following the death of Vanuatu’s High Commissioner to New Zealand, Johnson Naviti, who passed away yesterday afternoon in Wellington. “Our thoughts are with the High Commissioner’s family and colleagues during this difficult time. This is a terrible loss both to ...
The Government has today set out the regional allocations of the $761 million Three Waters stimulus and reform funding for councils announced by Prime Minister Hon Jacinda Ardern this month. "I want to thank Councils around the country for engaging with the Central Local Government Steering Group who have been ...
Students with high and complex learning needs, as well as their teachers and parents, will benefit from a substantial increase to Ongoing Resourcing Scheme (ORS) funding, Associate Education Minister Martin announced today. “Nearly $160 million will go towards helping these students by lifting their base support over the next four ...
Funding for innovative projects to connect Kiwis with affordable, safe and wholesome food, reduce food waste, and help our food producers recover from COVID-19 has been announced today by Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor. “COVID-19 has seen an increasing number of families facing unprecedented financial pressure. Foodbanks and community food service ...
Eight shovel-ready projects within Kāinga Ora large-scale developments, and the Unitec residential development in Auckland have been given the go-ahead, Minister for Housing Dr Megan Woods announced today. Megan Woods says these significant infrastructure upgrades will ensure that the provision of homes in Auckland can continue apace. “The funding announced ...
The Government is funding a new separated walking and cycleway path along Napier’s Chambers and Ellison streets to provide safer access for local students and residents across Marine Parade and State Highway 51, Transport Minister Phil Twyford and Police Minister Stuart Nash announced today. Funding of $2.7 million has been ...
More than 13,000 people have been employed so far thanks to the Coalition Government’s Provincial Growth Fund, Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones has today announced. The number of jobs created by Provincial Growth Fund (PGF) investments has outstripped the 10,000 jobs target that the Government and Provincial Development Unit ...
Scientists and innovative fishing operators from Stewart Island and Fiordland to Nelson, Marlborough and Wellington have been honoured in the first ever Seafood Sustainability Awards. Fisheries Minister Stuart Nash has congratulated the winners of the inaugural Seafood Sustainability Awards held at Parliament. “The awards night honours six winners, from a wide ...
The Government is providing an investment totalling more than $100 million for regions to protect against and mitigate the effects of climate change, Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters and Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones have announced. Six regions will receive funding from the $3 billion allocated to infrastructure projects from the ...
Three major local projects at Te Kuiti and Otorohanga have been given the money to get moving after the impact of Covid 19, says the Minister of Māori Development Hon Nanaia Mahuta. The projects range from a Sports Centre for Te Kuiti, a redevelopment of the Otorohanga Kiwi House and ...
The Coalition Government has extended three New Zealand Defence Force deployments to the Middle East and Africa by two years, Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters and Defence Minister Ron Mark announced today. “These deployments promote peace in the Middle East and Africa by protecting civilians and countering the spread of ...
The release of the National Climate Change Risk Assessment shows that the progress this Government has made to solve the climate crisis is essential to creating cleaner and safer communities across New Zealand. “Because of this report, we can see clearer than ever that the action our Government is taking ...
The second round of the Community Resilience Fund is now open for applications for sport and recreation organisations experiencing financial hardship between 1 July and 30 September 2020. “The fund opens today for five weeks – closing on September 6. The amount awarded will be decided on a case-by-case basis ...
Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage today declared Rakitū Island, off the coast of Aotea/Great Barrier Island, predator free. “I’m delighted to announce that with rats now gone, Rakitū is officially predator free. This is a major milestone because Rakitū is the last DOC administered island in the Hauraki Gulf Marine ...
The Provincial Growth Fund is investing $8.75 million to restore significant historic sites at Ōhaeawai in the Far North, upgrade marae and fund fencing and riparian planting. Regional Economic Development Minister Shane Jones made the announcements following a service at the historic St Michael’s Anglican Church at Ōhaeawai today. Just ...
The Chatham Islands will receive close to $40 million for projects that will improve its infrastructure, add to its attraction as a visitor destination, and create jobs through a planned aquaculture venture, Infrastructure Minister Shane Jones has announced. “The COVID-19 pandemic has had a devastating impact on the islands, first ...
The Government is delivering more initiatives to reduce energy hardship and to give small electricity consumers a voice, Energy and Resources Minister Megan Woods said today. “In addition to the initiatives we have already delivered to support New Zealand families, we are responding to the Electricity Price Review with further ...
Government, iwi, NGOs and rehabilitation groups are working together to turn around the fortunes of the nationally endangered hoiho/yellow-eyed penguin following a series of terrible breeding seasons. The Minister of Conservation Eugenie Sage helped launch the Five Year Action Plan at the annual Yellow-Eyed Penguin symposium in Dunedin today. “I ...
The membership of the Tourism Futures Taskforce has now been confirmed, Tourism Minister Kelvin Davis announced at an event at Whakarewarewa in Rotorua today. “The main purpose of the independent Tourism Futures Taskforce is to lead the thinking on the future of tourism in New Zealand,” Kelvin Davis said. Joining ...
More than $300 million in funding has been approved to protect strategic tourism businesses, drive domestic tourism through regional events and lift digital capability in the tourism industry, Tourism Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. A $400 million Tourism Recovery Package was announced at Budget 2020, and with today’s announcements is ...
From 2021 permits will be required for New Zealanders wanting to export hard-to-recycle plastic waste. The Associate Minister for the Environment, Eugenie Sage, today announced the requirements as part of New Zealand’s commitments to the Basel Convention, an international agreement of more than 180 countries which was amended in May ...
The building and construction sector is still showing strong growth, with the number of new dwellings consented up more than 8 per cent compared to last year, reflecting a welcome confidence in the Government’s COVID-19 response package, Minister for Building and Construction Jenny Salesa says. “While it is still too ...
Government investment of $23 million for Bay of Plenty flood protection will allow local communities to address long-standing flood risks and provide jobs, Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters and Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau announced in Rotorua today. These projects are being funded by the Infrastructure Reference Group’s (IRG) shovel ...
Investment for projects that will create hundreds of jobs in Rotorua were announced today by Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters and Under-Secretary for Regional Economic Development Fletcher Tabuteau. These projects will provide opportunities for economic development in a region that has been hard hit by COVID-19,” Winston Peters said. Fletcher ...
For the first time, primary schools will have access to funding for counsellors for their students, Associate Education Minister Tracey Martin announced today. “A major investment of $75.8 million will provide greater access to guidance counsellors to help primary and secondary school students deal with mental health and wellbeing issues,” ...
Defence Minister Ron Mark today welcomed the release of the Report of the Government Inquiry into Operation Burnham and related matters, and the Government response. “I thank the Inquiry for their thorough and detailed report, on a highly complex issue. I accept the recommendations of the report, and fully support ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kate Noble, Education Policy Fellow, Mitchell Institute, Victoria University From tomorrow (Thursday, August 6) only children of permitted workers will be able to attend childcare in Melbourne, which is under stage 4 restrictions. Parents and providers have been waiting to understand what ...
Gone By Lunchtime’s Toby Manhire, Annabelle Lee-Mather and Ben Thomas denounce new poll results that very slightly contradict their opinions.The height of the summit for the National Party? A poll came out last week with Labour at 53%, and that was considered good news for Judith Collins and the Strong ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mark Melatos, Associate Professor of Economics, University of Sydney Virgin Australia’s plan to sack about 3,000 of its 9,000 staff, axe its budget brand Tigerair, streamline its fleet to only Boeing 737s and suspend long-haul international flying indefinitely should come as no ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Benjamin Reilly, Professor, University of Western Australia In international affairs, words are bullets, according to an old diplomatic saying. If so, Australia in recent years has begun firing new ammunition. In his address to the Aspen Security Forum today, Prime Minister Scott ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Aisling Rayne, PhD candidate, University of Canterbury Whakapapa [genealogy] binds tākata whenua [people of the land] to the mountains, rivers, coasts and other landscapes, linking the health of the people with that of the environment. Like humans, species have whakapapa that ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gabriel da Silva, Senior Lecturer in Chemical Engineering, University of Melbourne The Lebanese capital Beirut was rocked on Tuesday evening local time by an explosion that has killed at least 78 people and injured thousands more. The country’s prime minister Hassan Diab ...
The MacDiarmid Institute DiscoveryCamp gives Māori and Pasefika high school students a taste of life as a scientist. Teuila Fuatai finds the experience often leads to much more. Eden Skipper loves eeling. “It is a family tradition,” he says proudly. The 22-year-old of Ngāi Tahu descent grew up on the east ...
Te Tari Taiwhenua, Department of Internal Affairs, has announced Allot Limited as the new service provider for the Digital Child Exploitation Filter (DCEF) from 1 August 2020. The filter operates as a service provided to most New Zealand Internet ...
In the wake of National’s leadership woes, The Spinoff sat down with the party’s most popular face in recent history to talk Covid-19, Judith Collins – and why he thinks our border should be more ‘flexible’.John Key is confident about our country’s future.In part, that’s because he tunes in each ...
The new National Policy Statement and National Environmental Standard for Freshwater, gazetted by the Government today, is a significant step forward in reducing pollution in our rural and urban waterways caused by intensive farming and through regional ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David McCooey, Professor of Writing and Literature, Deakin University In our series Art for Trying Times, authors nominate a work they turn to for solace or perspective during this pandemic. One day in 1984, a friend and I went to have lunch ...
Data released by Stats NZ today shows the impact of Covid-19 on New Zealand jobs during the June quarter was disproportionately felt by women. Mary Jo Vergara from KiwiEconomics breaks down what it all means.Women have historically fared well in times of war and crisis. During the Second World War, ...
The Sir Julius Vogel Awards last Thursday were meant to be a celebration of some of our best genre writers. It didn’t turn out that way, as Casey Lucas, one of the winners, explains. This is the story of how the nominees and recipients of the 2020 Sir Julius Vogel ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Craig Jeffrey, Director and CEO of the Australia India Institute; Professor of Development Geography, University of Melbourne In recent days, the Indian government approved a new education policy — the first for 34 years. The policy comes after an expert group produced ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Julian Elliott, Executive Director, National COVID-19 Clinical Evidence Taskforce, and Associate Professor, School of Public Health and Preventive Medicine, Monash University With cases of COVID-19 on the rise, many Australians are asking: what happens if I test positive? With no known cure ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Professor Marcia Langton, Foundation Chair in Australian Indigenous Studies, University of Melbourne This is an edited transcript of the 2020 Thea Astley Address delivered by Marcia Langton at the Byron Writers Festival. It’s a longer read at 4,500 words. You can listen ...
As Auckland business leaders and the city’s economic development agency hold a day-long summit to thrash out a Covid-19 economic recovery plan, Finance Minister Grant Robertson is singing from a different song- book. He reckons NZ’s economy is doing well and “ … as we look ahead, there are ...
The National Party says it would create a new Auckland Transport-like authority and green-light a second Terrace tunnel National Party leader Judith Collins has announced National would give greater government funding for the Wellington region's existing transport plan and for a new agency to end the region's transport bickering. Collins made ...
Latest from the Beehive – The public debt is among the victims of the Covid-19 epidemic. According to the 2020 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update, in the current year and the next two fiscal years, operating deficits (operating balance before gains and losses) average around $28 billion while net core ...
The latest round of economic data won’t carry Judith Collins and the National Party into the promised land, and she’ll need to come up with something else to save her chances, writes political commentator Ben Thomas.The government has delivered an economic miracle! How else to describe today’s labour market statistics ...
Source: Council on Hemispheric Affairs – Analysis-Reportage John PerryFrom Masaya, Nicaragua An extraordinary leaked document gives a glimpse of the breadth and complexity of the US government’s plan to interfere in Nicaragua’s internal affairs up to and after its presidential election in 2021. The plan,[1] a 14-page extract from a ...
The Cook Islands language video.Pacific Media Centre Newsdesk The Cook Islands episode in AUT’s Pacific language video series – “Adapting to a changing world, shaping resilient futures” – is out now. The video is narrated in Cook Islands Māori (with English subtitles) to acknowledge the language being celebrated in ...
Community Law Centres welcome the additional Government funding announced to help address increased demand for free legal services due to COVID-19. Minister of Justice Andrew Little today announced an additional $3.47m over three years for Community ...
New Zealand’s unemployment rate has just fallen, defying experts and flying in the face of everything we expected. But according to Stats NZ, the devil is in the detail.What’s all this then?In a bizarre turn of events, New Zealand’s seasonally adjusted unemployment rate has actually fallen from 4.2% to 4% ...
The outgoing immigration minister, Iain Lees-Galloway, has told MPs income criteria imposed on residents who want their parents to join them are "far too high". ...
Auckland Action Against Poverty is calling on the Government to increase abatement thresholds and lift benefits to liveable levels to support people affected by the growth of unemployment due to COVID-19. “Unemployment numbers do not tell us whether ...
A national survey of public drinking fountains around Aotearoa, recently undertaken by RefillNZ , has shown that, on average, there is only one drinking fountain for every 3,303 people and as few as one fountain for every 17,000 people in the worst-affected ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andreas Ortmann, Professor, UNSW Sweden has become something of a cautionary tale for what happens when you attempt to tackle coronavirus without lockdowns. In The Conversation last week The Grattan Institute’s Stephen Duckett and Will Mackey said its freer approach caused almost ...
In the June 2020 quarter, the seasonally adjusted unemployment rate fell to 4.0 percent, down from 4.2 percent last quarter, while underutilisation rose, Stats NZ said today. ...
A conference on Auckland and the Covid-19 crisis hears calls for flexibility from the Government, including a loan to fund big projects and allowing foreign students into university quarantine Former Prime Minister John Key is urging the Government to throw out the rulebook and give Auckland Council a big, interest-free ...
Pacific Media Centre Newsdesk The safe reopening of entry points into six Pacific Islands countries amid the covid-19 pandemic is being discussed at a meeting in Fiji this week. The virtual roundtable is being convened by the United Nations and the Asian Development Bank with representatives from Solomon Islands, Kiribati, ...
The New Zealand Taxpayers' Union is welcoming confirmation from the National Party that income tax bracket indexation remains party policy. However, suggestions that the National Party has no plans to cut income taxes will come as a major disappointment ...
The Executive Director of the New Zealand Maori Council, Matthew Tukaki, has said unemployment in New Zealand will rise significantly over the next quarter and the figures out today are just the tip of a very fast-moving iceberg. Tukaki has said ...
Aggrieved members of the Firearms Community - from all over Canterbury and beyond - will once again take to the streets of Ashburton in good numbers this Saturday, 8th August. They continue to protest against the government’s Firearms Law Firearms ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Susan Hazel, Senior Lecturer, School of Animal and Veterinary Science, University of Adelaide What does a pandemic smell like? If dogs could talk, they might be able to tell us. We’re part of an international research team, led by Dominique Grandjean at ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Smith, Senior Lecturer in American Politics and Foreign Policy, US Studies Centre, University of Sydney Americans were alarmed last week when their president suggested on Twitter that the November 3 presidential election should be delayed because mail-in ballots would be fraudulent. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Judy Mullan, Associate Professor, School of Medicine, University of Wollongong According to 2016 Census data, 3.5% of Australians have limited English proficiency. When they’re receiving health care, it’s essential these Australians have access to interpreters. Research has shown professional interpreters facilitate effective ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Aliza Werner-Seidler, Senior Research Fellow in Mental Health & Clinical Psychologist, UNSW Access to mental health support has never been more important, as Melburnians are hit with a stage 4 lockdown and much of the rest of Australia braces for a potential ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Osman, Scientist, Energy Efficiency & Renewables, CSIRO Yesterday, Australia’s eastern states felt a vicious cold snap, and these wintry blasts make hunkering down in isolation at home a little easier. But as the temperature rises at home, so does our carbon ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alan Brent, Professor and Chair in Sustainable Energy Systems, Te Herenga Waka — Victoria University of Wellington CC BY-NDClimate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sarah Prestridge, Senior Lecturer, Griffith University In early July, Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews announced government school students in prep to Year 10 — in Metropolitan Melbourne and the Mitchell Shire —would learn from home for term three. Students in Years 11 and ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Georgia Cervin, Honorary Research Fellow, University of Western Australia The new Netflix documentary Athlete A details how Larry Nassar, the US women’s gymnastics team doctor, was brought to justice after sexually abusing hundreds of gymnasts. Since its release, gymnasts around the world ...
Welcome to Election Live for August 5, bringing you the latest on election 2020 and other breaking news. For key dates in the election season click here. For all you need to know about the cannabis referendum click here. For the assisted dying referendum click here. Get in touch at ...
The Social Services and Community Committee is calling for public submissions on the Oranga Tamariki (Youth Justice Demerit Points) Amendment Bill, which was referred to the committee on 21 July 2020. This Member’s Bill would introduce a youth demerit ...
Ryman Healthcare's plans in Australia's Covid-19 hit state of Victoria prompt a note of caution, plus the Super Fund buys New Zealand's major lab testing company ...
Good morning and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: IPCA and police at odds over decision not to charge officer, Canterbury DHB in crisis, and Shane Jones job creation claims disputed.The Independent Police Conduct Authority has issued a call for charges for an officer who used excessive force in ...
The market failure imposed by the use of Tiwai Point as an aluminium smelter does not mean that there are no other good options. Nicola Gaston gives explores five of them. So it’s happened. Rio Tinto has announced it is pulling the plug on the Tiwai Point aluminium smelter, due to crashing prices ...
An essay by Ruby Solly about whakapapa, resistance, and the markers of history that often go unseen In my dark hair, there is a red fleck. Like Tiger's Eye stone, you see it run when the light hits it. The red fleck of totoweka, the blood in the stone. My ...
Covid-19 has underscored that the Government cannot address issues of magnitude alone. Dawn Freshwater looks at where universities fit into our country's recovery. University researchers have shown remarkable agility in their response to the Covid-19 pandemic. They have conducted research in new fields, collaborated across traditional disciplinary boundaries and joined forces ...
Fonterra’s proposed wastewater plant near Cambridge has drawn opposition from locals who say it should take place on industrial-zoned land, not in the middle of farms, lifestyle blocks and retirement homes Residents in a rural area of Cambridge are unhappy about Fonterra’s proposal to put a wastewater treatment plant on ...
Our first world weightlifting gold medallist, Kanah Andrews-Nahu, has struggled coming out of lockdown. But it’s helped her realise that to be great, she must be committed. Not only in sport, but a medical career too. This year’s North and South Island Olympic weightlifting championships were, understandably, like no other. Instead ...
It's time to end to the manipulation of newsfeeds, demand fact-checking and smash our echo chambers, writes Gehan Gunasekara Data privacy has now become a mainstream election issue on par with the likes of health or education. People care deeply how their personal information is managed. This is evidenced by the ...
The first episode of our new podcast series tackles equality and equity and the role of our education system as a solution. Subscribe now to Conversations that Count – Ngā Kōrero Whai Take, for essential insight into the future of Aotearoa. The idea that all New Zealanders should have access to ...
When does advance voting open, when do the results get announced, and when are the TV debates? The essential election calendar.To read our bumper Q&A on the cannabis legalisation referendum see here, on the assisted dying referendum, see here. For all The Spinoff’s Election 2020 coverage go here.This post will ...
Alongside the general election of 2020, New Zealanders will be asked to vote on the Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill, which legalises restricted access to cannabis. Here’s our bumper question-and-answer special on what it involves.Click here for everything you need to know about the assisted dying referendum. Read more from the ...
Here’s what we have planned for the weeks to come.A month from today, on Saturday September 5, voting begins in the general election of 2020. Election day itself isn’t for another fortnight, on September 19, but if the trends of recent times is a guide, more than half of all ...
Alongside the general election of 2020, New Zealanders will be asked to vote on the End of Life Choice bill, which allows voluntary euthanasia for those suffering terminal illnesses. Here’s our bumper question-and-answer special on what it involves.Click here for everything you need to know about the cannabis referendum. Read ...
After China's succession of food scares, and post-Covid wariness, consumer demands there are changing. New Zealand can take advantage of that, or be left behind Covid-19 has heightened Chinese consumer concerns about food safety, and industry players are warning New Zealand businesses to keep up. Today The Detail looks ...
Our banks are charging retailers hundreds of millions of dollars every year, for electronic payments. While credit card companies cut some fees this week, small Kiwi retailers are still paying too much. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Scott Morrison says the COVID-19 crisis has created new opportunities for “like-minded economies” to work together – but warned against “solely transactional” trade approaches undermining these relationships. In a Wednesday keynote speech to the US ...
A new Twilight book launches today. Its author talked to Catherine Woulfe about gender politics, anxiety, and the challenges of telling the Twilight story from Edward Cullen’s perspective. Midnight Sun is the original Twilight story, except instead of Bella Swan narrating it’s her vampire love, Edward Cullen.It’s a book that ...
Papua New Guinea has one new case of the novel coronavirus covid-19 reported yesterday bringing total cases to 111, reports EMTV News. National Pandemic Response Controller David Manning in a statement late yesterday said the new case was a 27-year-old male of the National Department of Health and was in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Should the public know the details of all the Victorian aged care facilities that have had COVID-19 cases? “Yes” seems the obvious answer. But not according to the Health department or Aged Care Minister Richard ...
The $3 billion PGF needs to be more transparent about how it operates, the auditor general says. The minister in charge of the fund, Shane Jones, disagrees. ...
The eye-watering cost of keeping the Christchurch mosque gunman behind bars has reignited calls for him to be sent back to Australia to serve his sentence there. ...
With the election campaign about to get under way, minor party leaders are furious at being shut out of one of the biggest possible stages for their policy platforms. Alex Braae reports.TVNZ’s multi-party election debate is once again the subject of controversy, not because of who will be one the ...
Open mike 04/09/2012 
After I noticed that my name had been taken yet again in vain by my friendly antagonist Tom Hunter over at No Minister, I went over to see what the fuss was about. Nothing much, but then I discovered a post about the Operation Burnham Inquiry by Psycho Milt. I ...4 hours ago
The COVID-19 Public Health Response Act 2020 was extended today, until December 1st or the tenth sitting day following the resumption of Parliament after the election. It seems like a necessary extension. While we currently have eradicated the virus in New Zealand, it is still banging at the door, and ...4 hours ago
Judy Kavanagh I’m OK with wearing a CovidCard. But are you? There’s no point me doing it alone.
As many good things come in threes (as the saying goes), we are happy to announce a third partnership between Skeptical Science and other websites. Fakebook.eco in Brazil is joining Klimafakten.de in Germany and Nauka o Klimacie in Poland to leverage translated rebuttal material and to make the information readily available in other ...1 day ago
This interview on RNZ with Ross Tucker, the scientist who headed a review of transgender athletes playing in women’s rugby, discusses the findings of the review and what it means for women in sports. The review that World Rugby undertook had a broad range of independent experts and included a ...1 day ago
Let's Do This Again: What else can Jacinda do in a political environment so bereft of imagination and courage but seek a continuance? If she trades upon the extraordinary personal qualities that she has, miraculously, carried with her into the office of Prime Minister, then I, for one, will offer ...1 day ago
New Zealand First is facing a difficult struggle to get re-elected, but Josh Van Veen, who was once a researcher for Winston Peters, argues that there is still a very significant section of cultural conservatives who oppose mass immigration and political correctness and might yet be won back over to ...2 days ago
As polling day in the American presidential election draws closer, things are looking bad for Donald Trump. The polls show that he is tracking well behind his Democrat rival. Most people assume that the President will be striving might and main to avoid what looks increasingly likely to be a ...3 days ago
Our health professionals do an amazing job. Image credit: Wikipedia – Cardiac surgery. Finally, I have got back to these rankings. A long period in hospital and computer problems meant the June 2020 rankings were abandoned. Now, with a new personal defibrillator implanted in my chest and a new hard ...3 days ago
Former National Minister - Wayne MappYou could tell that the Hit and Run book by investigative journalists Nicky Hager and Jon Stephenson was right on the money by the way former National Party Minister of Defence, Wayne Mapp, reacted to its now largely vindicated claims.Even though the recent inquiry into ...4 days ago
We are failing to think though the interdependencies in an economy. We miss economist Bryan Philpott (1921-2000). I miss him personally – we used to have such great discussions – but this column is about how the nation misses his economic experience and wisdom. We tend to ...5 days ago
TUESDAY AUGUST 4Grand Designs UK (Three, 7.30pm). ...6 days ago
Most of the claims made by anti-fluoride propagandists are simply wrong. Image source: Fluoridation and the ‘sciency’ facts of critics Anti-fluoride propagandists continually cite studies from areas of endemic fluorosis in their arguments against ... 1 week ago
. . For the mainstream media, today (22 July) was even a better day than yesterday. More Sex. More Politics. More Sex AND Politics. Yesterday, the msm dealt with Andrew Falloon. The obscure backbench MP had been found to have sent pornographic images to at least four women. The woman’s ...1 week ago
There’s ultimately two key narratives overall that are seeking to take front row in order to reshape the world as a whole going forward from the COVID pandemic. The first is a very desperate attempt to reimpose “a return” to what is perceived as “the old normal”, quite impossible. ...2 weeks ago
With the June 2020 quarter showing underemployment increasing, the Green Party is calling for a Guaranteed Minimum Income and an increase to the abatement threshold to ensure everyone has a dignified income. ...7 hours ago
We went hard and we went early in our health response to COVID-19, and we did everything we could to cushion the economic impact too. In fact, we can fill every letter of the alphabet with the steps we took to fight COVID-19 and ensure we were in a position ...1 day ago
New Zealand needs to be more aggressive in pursuing economic opportunities and resist the short-term thinking affecting some of its major industry, Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters says. Mr Peters told Wellington Chamber of Commerce members this morning that the planned closure of the Tiwai Point aluminium smelter will have ...2 weeks ago
The Government has delivered on its promise to New Zealanders to modernise tenancy laws with the passing of the Residential Tenancies Amendment (RTA) Bill 2020 today, says Associate Minister of Housing (Public Housing), Kris Faafoi. “The Residential Tenancies Act 1986 was out-dated and the reforms in the RTA modernise our ...11 mins ago
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kate Noble, Education Policy Fellow, Mitchell Institute, Victoria University From tomorrow (Thursday, August 6) only children of permitted workers will be able to attend childcare in Melbourne, which is under stage 4 restrictions. Parents and providers have been waiting to understand what ...1 hour ago
The MacDiarmid Institute DiscoveryCamp gives Māori and Pasefika high school students a taste of life as a scientist. Teuila Fuatai finds the experience often leads to much more. Eden Skipper loves eeling. “It is a family tradition,” he says proudly. The 22-year-old of Ngāi Tahu descent grew up on the east ...3 hours ago
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As Auckland business leaders and the city’s economic development agency hold a day-long summit to thrash out a Covid-19 economic recovery plan, Finance Minister Grant Robertson is singing from a different song- book. He reckons NZ’s economy is doing well and “ … as we look ahead, there are ...6 hours ago
The National Party says it would create a new Auckland Transport-like authority and green-light a second Terrace tunnel National Party leader Judith Collins has announced National would give greater government funding for the Wellington region's existing transport plan and for a new agency to end the region's transport bickering. Collins made ...6 hours ago
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An essay by Ruby Solly about whakapapa, resistance, and the markers of history that often go unseen In my dark hair, there is a red fleck. Like Tiger's Eye stone, you see it run when the light hits it. The red fleck of totoweka, the blood in the stone. My ...15 hours ago
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Fonterra’s proposed wastewater plant near Cambridge has drawn opposition from locals who say it should take place on industrial-zoned land, not in the middle of farms, lifestyle blocks and retirement homes Residents in a rural area of Cambridge are unhappy about Fonterra’s proposal to put a wastewater treatment plant on ...15 hours ago
Our first world weightlifting gold medallist, Kanah Andrews-Nahu, has struggled coming out of lockdown. But it’s helped her realise that to be great, she must be committed. Not only in sport, but a medical career too. This year’s North and South Island Olympic weightlifting championships were, understandably, like no other. Instead ...15 hours ago
It's time to end to the manipulation of newsfeeds, demand fact-checking and smash our echo chambers, writes Gehan Gunasekara Data privacy has now become a mainstream election issue on par with the likes of health or education. People care deeply how their personal information is managed. This is evidenced by the ...15 hours ago
After China's succession of food scares, and post-Covid wariness, consumer demands there are changing. New Zealand can take advantage of that, or be left behind Covid-19 has heightened Chinese consumer concerns about food safety, and industry players are warning New Zealand businesses to keep up. Today The Detail looks ...15 hours ago
Our banks are charging retailers hundreds of millions of dollars every year, for electronic payments. While credit card companies cut some fees this week, small Kiwi retailers are still paying too much. ...15 hours ago
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OK so yesterday showed Key at his Crosby Textor PR directed best.
He had to delay the sale of the power company shares. Rio Tinto’s belligerent money grabbing stance made a delay inevitable. The threat to the electricity wholesale market was far too high.
So did Key acknowledge this? No he blamed Maaaree. It was all their fault.
He is entering into consultation with Iwi to discuss an option the Government will never support so its chances at the inevitable court action will be increased.
And he then sowed confusion by bringing forward an announcement that kiwi soldiers were coming home early from Afghanistan.
He is such a consummate politician. And such an awful leader. New Zealand should be ashamed …
+1
Can i ask, does anyone know which seat cameron brewer is being lined up for national at the next election? He seems to have quite a pr team nehind him, and he has jumped on the greedy maori bandwagon today, the timing is very very interesting?
I thought he was being lined up to go against Brown at next years local body elections so they can plunder akl’s assets, he’s always tub thumping on rates, travel etc etc.
Banksy f’d that up good and proper last time so it’s time for Blinky jnr.
CB will stay in local politics for the time being, as his usefullness is seen to be there, and the timing of the comments deliberate.
I would say that as long as good people are prepared to sit back and wait, hoping that perhaps the local/national political system will begin to represent them, things will continue to get worse.
There are some half decent reps inside AKL Council, but CB is most certainly not one them!
I would see the mayoral attack coming from CB/CF direction, as they want AKL assets, and they want them badly!
David Clark makes a good argument in support of his bill to increase the minimum wage: The PM’s cleaner deserves more
Thanks for the link. Yes, it covers a lot of important points, including this:
So it seems the cronyist links between Westpac and the NAct government continue to register at the edges of the media radar, with a failure for the government to fulfill its promise of opening its banking contract (currently with Westpac) for tender:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/7606571/No-tender-yet-for-Government-banking-contract
Meanwhile, ex-NAct minister Simon Power, now with Westpac, is ensuring his current employer, Westpac, has a significant presence in Christchurch:
http://www.3news.co.nz/Westpac-ready-for-return-to-Christchurch-CBD/tabid/421/articleID/263293/Default.aspx
And more importantly – why is no one asking the question as to why the Government opts to bank with a foreign owned bank as opposed to using the bank that it conveniently happens to OWN?
Notwithstanding the fact that it would also provide additional capital reserves that apparently Kiwibank needs…
Whilst KiwiBank is doing a good job it is totally under capitalised.
It regularly borrows money from NZ Post (taxpayer) from inception to prop up its finanncial structure.
The Reserve Bank controls ALL Banks in New Zealand with secure financial limits.
It would take the total partial sale assets of a couple of SOE’s to pay back what it owes and to be lodged to set it up competively.
Could be done.
KiwiBank only needs a $75M capital injection to bring it completely up to speed.
CV
Current spread possibly but we are talking about going for Banker to the Government of New Zealand, not continuing in its current 5% and a bit market share.
Ahh I see.
‘concerned the cost of tendering the contract.’ yeah right Blagger Bill.
They burn piles of dosh on consultants and ticket clippers on the now stalled MOMathon, intended share giveaways, RONS with little or negative payback, consulting culture in and around treasury etc etc etc.
The arrogance continues to be world class from this gov’t but they’re consistent here with another broken promise.
Government banking should be returned to the Reserve Bank IMO.
The Reserve Bank isn’t set up as a retail bank so Kiwi Bank would have to do it.
But the Reserve Bank could take back its right as the sole creator of interest-free, debt-free money into our economy.
More lies and anit-democratic practices by our government, exposed:
http://www.labour.org.nz/news/government-mps-mislead-tvnz7%E2%80%99s-supporters
The end of TVNZ7 was all about ensuring that our TV channels promoted stupidity.
http://tumeke.blogspot.co.nz/2012/09/so-tvnz-could-have-saved-tvnz7-then.html
VITAMIN C CAN CURE: So why does Auckland Hospital REFUSE to give it to you?
________________________________________________________________________________
Man saved by Vitamin C to lead protest at Auckland Hospital
Allan Smith, whose life was saved in 2009 by intravenous Vitamin C at Auckland Hospital, will be protesting from 12-2 pm on September 15 … at Auckland Hospital – for turning its back on this life saving treatment.
Smith was featured on two segments on 60 Minutes in 2010.
60 Minutes detailed his surprising story of near fatal illness with Swine Flu and pneumonia, and the willingness of Auckland Hospital to “pull the plug” on him – kill him – rather than give him Vitamin C.
Vitamin C, especially in high doses, has been a well-known and scientifically accepted anti-viral for many years, andyet Auckland hospital initially refused to administer it,falsely claiming that they had “tried everything” to no avail.
When the hospital, under pressure from the family, finally andRELUCTANTLY administered the vitamin C, Smith began to show a dramatic improvement within days.
Within a few short weeks he was well again.
Unfortunately, Auckland Hospital and many other NZ hospitals seem to have learned nothing from the experience and to this day they actually REFUSE to administer vitamin C to patients presenting with acute viral illnesses such as flu.
They persistently and falsely claim that there is “no evidence” for the efficacy of vitamin C, but there is, indeed, massive amounts of evidence for it – even in their “peer reviewed” medical literature.
Vitamin C is even a registered medicine in New Zealand.
And yet they initially refused to give it to Allan Smith and they continue to refuse to give it to other people who are ill with viral (or bacterial) illnesses.
And some people reportedly have died as a result of this refusal to even try it!
Were it not for the persistence of Smith’s family, he would have died, too.
Whatever the reason for this intransigence in the face of the obvious successes of Vitamin C, the people of New Zealand deserve to have a medical system that is truly evidence-based, and is focussed entirely on the best recovery strategies available – rather than one that refuses to acknowledge its mistakes.
Across the board, mistakes such as this one are costing thousands of lives, in that the Medical System itself is now reliably VITAMIN C CAN CURE considered to be the third leading cause of death in New Zealand.
Why, we ask, is it so difficult for Auckland Hospital to learn from the case of Allan Smith? Why is so hard to admit that a mistake was made? … and then change a ridiculous policy that is costing lives and public health.
Contact: Allan Smith
Tel 07 873 7572
027-472-2975
________________________________________________________________________________
I’ll be there – outside Auckland Hospital from 12 noon – 2pm Saturday 15 September 2012.
Who else is coming?
Penny Bright
So you just protest for the sake of protesting now?
errr…………… A bit of a NO-BRAINER I would have thought?
Aren’t hospitals and medical staff supposed to be in the business (as it were 🙂 of SAVING lives?
If Vitamin C can cure – why is Auckland Hospital refusing to give this treatment?
I’ll be protesting outside Auckland Hospital on 15 September 2012 from 12 noon to 2pm because I support this issue.
In my considered opinion, as a ‘veteran’ activist with over 40 years experience – ‘it’s the masses who get off their asses’ – who help bring about change.
Pity a few more people didn’t get off their butts and stand up to be counted, in order to help make a difference?
Cheers!
Penny Bright
“If Vitamin C can cure – why is Auckland Hospital refusing to give this treatment?”
because it has never been proven and only tenuous links have been established. There have been no, to very few, double blind studies done and no real incontrovertible evidence that Vitamin C has any real effect.
So it isn’t a ‘no-brainer’.
This may help the informed debate on Vitamin C?
_________________________________________________________________________
http://www.vitaminccancure.org.nz/
Home
The Vitamin C Can Cure Coalition is is a patient and family support group which has come together to promote the benefits of high dose vitamin C to resolve a variety of life threatening illnesses. We also exist to support patients’ rights to access to this treatment.
Intravenous vitamin C is a registered medicine in New Zealand, yet this medication is currently being refused patients requesting it in New Zealand hospitals. The dangers of such refusal is that it may lead to unnecessary deaths.
Intravenous vitamin C can be a lifesaving treatment when administered in a timely manner and in sufficient doses. Last year New Zealander Allan Smith was critically ill with swine flu and was facing death as his life support was going to be turned off. At his family’s request, Allan Smith was administered high dose intravenous vitamin C and made a full recovery and is alive and well today.
The Allan Smith Story
Allan Smith’s recovery from Swine Flu and Hairy Cell Leukemia was documented on TV3′s 60 Minutes Programme. The story may be viewed at this link on TV3′s website:
http://ondemand.tv3.co.nz/60-Minutes-Living-Proof/tabid/59/articleID/923/Default.aspx
“Some physicians would stand by and see their patient die
rather than use ascorbic acid (vitamin C) because
in their finite minds it exists only as a vitamin”
– Dr. Frederick Robert Klenner
_________________________________________________________________________
Kind regards,
Penny Bright
Evidence is not the plural of anecdote, Penny.
Of course, CODEX, S510, NZ Natural Health Products bill et al, have absolutely nothing to do with it eh!
Its all about the control!
Anecdote that!
Sure. How about “that reminds me of the person who called everything a false-flag operation to the point that the person looked extremely delusional, but then it became evident that they didn’t know what ‘false flag’ actually meant. So beware of randoms on the internet making claims of miracles or conspiracies.”
Hey McFlock how you doing buddy…
Nah, where that went wrong for you was, you assumed I care what the “official definition” of a FF is, when I just use the term for things which smell bad!
You asked me my opinion, I gave it, you didn’t like it and have got your g string in a twist!
Lol
Okay then, it is apparent to me that you are an aardvark thinker. Although I’m not going to be nailed down by TPTB’s “official definition” of those words, but I’ll expect you to know what I mean.
Oh, and your mother was a cucumber.
It may look helpful to you, Penny, but I’m pretty sure if Contrarian responded by linking to a site called “novitaminccan’tcure.com” you might get an idea of why no one else finds it particularly compelling.
A precious first, Contrarian… I agree wholeheartedly with you! 🙂
And more on NAct crony watch – Rebstock now confirmed as ACC chair and leader of its “culture change” – on her record, I can’t see that as being a change for the better:
Also joining Ms Rebstock on the board are financial adviser and Public Trust chairman Trevor Janes, Auckland University School of Medicine head Professor Des Gorman and public and medical law expert Kristy McDonald QC, who have all been appointed for three-year terms.
A fourth new board member has also been identified, but not named, and will start their role in 2013.
The new appointees will join the existing board members Jill Spooner, John Meehan and Jane Huria.
Ms Collins says the new appointments reflect the government’s commitment to rebuilding the public’s trust and confidence in ACC.
She said Ms Rebstock has “demonstrated a commitment to culture change at ACC”.
Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/Rebstock-to-head-ACC-culture-change/tabid/423/articleID/267947/Default.aspx#ixzz25RmiG000
Inevitable that one, she’s a trusted jackboot corporate animal of the Nat’s who jumped off the comcom monopoly train to take these roles up.
There is a problem here, these are 3 year appointments and they are obviously political and ideological. The precedent is not good, should the government change and the direction / ideology change as well (by no means certain with PaganiLab) then they may just have to be ejected.
Translation: Will continue the governments work to destroy the publics confidence in ACC so that private insurers can be brought in.
Considering the sociopathy that she showed in the Welfare Working Group I’m sure she will – it just won’t be a change for the better.
Rebstock the new chair of ACC. Culture change all right – they’ll be kicking even more people off now. Charming.
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/pauling.html
Penny you have been conned by the powerful placebo effect.
The alleged benefits of Vitamin C have been rigorously discredited.
ol’ anal fissure aye
Quite true
Got some FACTS and EVIDENCE to back up what you are saying ‘fisiani’?
Penny Bright
Try this Penny
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/6286215/Vitamin-therapy-fails-to-deliver
That’s not evidence TC. That’s a one man trial. It’s interesting, but it doesn’t count as even being close to evidence of anything other than that the treatment didn’t work for him.
You might have missed this in the article too –
“Debate about high-dose vitamin C had been raging for three decades and it was time proper clinical trials were conducted, he said. ”
(my emphasis). That’s a university researcher saying that there is no evidence either way yet.
btw, I don’t believe that Vit C is a cure for cancer. It might be helpful for some people.
Well, the burden of proof is on Penny not me. But you are right it isn’t evidence because there is no evidence the Vit. C can do what it claims and you can’t prove a negative.
So this is why I queried Penny’s protest. She is protesting that a hospital isn’t dosing people up with Vitamin C when there isn’t any evidence it’d be helpful at all.
Pure BS. You have no idea what you are talking about.
You can demonstrate that something has no clinical effect. Its what ordinary drug tirals do all the time. That is not the case for vitamin C where the evidence remains inconclusive.
Its called the burden of proof. The burden of proof is on Penny who says Vitamin C has clinical effect so it is up to her to provide evidence and she made the original claim and her original claim is a positive assertion.
Interesting topic
Some proof for TheContrarian:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16157892?dopt=Abstract
Also the next link mentions
“The only side effect of high doses of ascorbate is a mild laxative effect. There are no reliable reports of severe ascorbate toxicity, such as acidosis or kidney stones.”
http://www.aids.org/topics/vitamin-c-laboratory-tests-indicate-antiviral-effect/
If Vitamin C has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient, I do question why a hospital wouldn’t at least try it.
Hemachromatosis would have to be tested for I guess.
“If Vitamin C has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient , I do question why a hospital wouldn’t at least try it.”
True, but why not try Vitamin D? Or any other substance for that matter.
“has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient” is not a good way of deciding on treatment and the fear, as pointed out by medical officials is that people won’t seek proper medical treatment thinking instead of trying Vitamin C
My reference to “no likelihood of posing danger to a patient” rests on the logic that if something is believed to help a condition, that it has helped others, yet has not been through a rigorous scientific testing process-then I see no problem with giving it to patients who are requesting it as long as it will do no harm.
I believe medical staff are under an oath to do no harm. I assumed this would be the reason why they are not giving it to patients who request it.
“has no likelihood of posing danger to a patient” is not a good way of deciding on treatment and the fear, as pointed out by medical officials is that people won’t seek proper medical treatment thinking instead of trying Vitamin C
Dude, the man was in a coma in the hospital. Do you really think that there was a fear that he would try vitamin C and not seek medical treatment?
Here’s a good look at the ethics of the situation, including details of what the man went through, and how the family had to get lawyers and the HDC involved in what eventually saved his life. (the link shows an ODT article by Grant Gillett, professor of medical ethics at the University of Otago Bioethics Centre)
http://www.vitaminccancure.org.nz/?p=34
Hospitals don’t “try it” as there is no evidence that it works in a positive manner in vivo in any variety of cancer patient.
In terms of the occasional anecdotal report as per that provided by PB in a patient with the viral infections supportive data in this group is also lacking.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15495002
HS makes a good point.
Medicine is (or at least should be) evidence based – particularly in hospitals. You can’t have people just whacking up any old treatment because it might not do any harm based on anecdotal evidence.
They need to protect themselves as well as the patient and you’d be one death away from a serious issue.
Higherstandard doesn’t make a good point, supplying investigative outcomes to the taking of Vit C orally when the discussion is about high dose intravenous application is not an effective response to what I posted.
“They need to protect themselves aswell…”
Which is precisely why I mentioned that if it does no harm…If it is clear that a patient is not going to be poisoned by the substance, and alongside the information supplied in this thread, that people have responded well to this treatment it appears a shame NOT to try it.
It wasn’t just any old treatment though. It’s a treatment that some physicians use.
Doctor’s prescribe drugs for off label use quite often.
Personally if I was dying, I’d be happy to try any old treatment.
I take your point about hospitals needing to protect themselves. And I agree that drugs should be properly tested But there are also situations where that is not appropriate and this case appears to be one of them.
If you’re taking about high dose iv Vit C as far as I’m aware there is no in vivo data showing it to be efficacious.
I do know there are a couple of GPs supplying it for cancer patients that request it but no one in the hospital system would touch it as it is costly in both time and money for no gain and they have proven interventions to provide.
In response to Weka – would you prefer an intervention that was proven to have a benefit recommended by a specialist prior to “trying anything” ?
Frankly if there was any evidence too support giving it most doctors and PHARMAC would be delighted.
” alongside the information supplied in this thread, that people have responded well to this treatment it appears a shame NOT to try it.”
The information is anecdotal. The scientific evidence, the medical evidence (what scant there is at this time) points to it not being an adequate or proper treatment for any condition neither have any studies proven any efficacy from its application.
In that case any doctor is going to shy away from using anything with any clear studies and research to back it up.
They place to test study such things isn’t by randomly shooting up patients in a hospital because it mightn’t hurt. You need double-blind, studies on a large group with a single methodology and similar doses vs. similar conditions – until such a time that takes place I think it is a good thing our hospitals are not used as laboratories.
here is one such rigorous study which showed Vit C. failed:
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM197909273011303
“In response to Weka – would you prefer an intervention that was proven to have a benefit recommended by a specialist prior to “trying anything” ?”
I’d prefer it if the medical establishment weren’t so closedminded, or captured by bigpharma. We’ve had decades to get over this chasm between mainstream and alternative medicine. Fault is on both sides, but just because some medical doctors say something doesn’t make it so. They have massive gaps in their knowledge and experience.
Here’s an example. Many people mitigate or completely relieve the effects of arthritis by making changes to their diets. Most doctors will say that there is no connection. I think there may now be some acceptance of taking things like glucosamine, but in general the line is that there is no evidence or even any useful theory. And yet many people are treating themselves and getting good results. Yes, that’s anecdotal, but if the people are feeling better, what is the problem? It’s not that people are self treating with diet. It’s that medical people aren’t taking that seriously and investigating it.
But to answer your question directly, honestly, if I was dying, I would be looking at the available options from within and outside mainstream medicine. Yes, trials and specialists are very useful, but they’re not the be all and end all. Drug trials aren’t the only useful way of knowing what works. As I already commented, off label use of drugs is not uncommon.
btw, I think there is a huge amount of bullshit within the alternative sector too. I just don’t think that doctors are god.
TC, if you are going to make claims for a study, you need to link to the full article. Lots of dubious research going on, even in peer reviewed journals.
I’m not saying this isn’t reliable research (and as stated, I don’t believe that vitamin C can cure cancer), but it’s not enough to present and abstract and ask everyone to trust.
I’m interested to know if you think that the hospital should have refused to give the vit C to the man with bird flu and pneumonia.
There was a well publicised case a couple years back of a Kiwi farmer who was almost fatally struck down by swine flu. Made it to TV in fact. His family finally convinced the hospital (AKL hospital?) to give his comatose body huge dosages of vitamin C and he started recovery almost immediately.
The ‘funny’ thing was that every time supervising doctors changed shift a new boss doctor would come onboard and go “WTF? Vitamin C? Get that quackery outta here”. They’d yank the IV lines out and literally, he would start to die again in front of their eyes until the family pleaded enough to restart it.
The Contrarian
In response to the link you supplied
“Ascorbic acid (vitamin C, ascorbate) has a controversial history in cancer treatment (1). Observational reports described ascorbate, given in pharmacologic doses of 10 g daily, as effective in treating some cancers and in improving patient well-being (2-4).
Subsequently, the same dose had no effect on patient well-being and survival in two double-blind placebo-controlled trials, and ascorbate was discarded as a treatment modality (5, 6).
Recent clinical evidence, however, indicates that the role of ascorbate in cancer treatment should be examined anew (7). THE ORIGINALLY REPORTED OBSERVATIONAL STUDIES USED I.V. AND ORAL ASCORBATE, BUT THE SUBSEQUENT DOUBLE-BLIND PLACEBO-CONTROLLED STUDIES USED ONLY ORAL ASCORBATE. It was not recognized that the route of ascorbate administration might produce large differences in plasma concentrations….Despite inconsistencies, some in vitro studies showed that ascorbate killed cancer cells, although mechanisms and physiologic relevance were unclear (10-12). Complementary and alternative medicine practitioners worldwide currently use ascorbate i.v. in some patients, in part because there is no apparent harm (13-15).” [My emphasis]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1224653/?tool=pubmed
Which may well be why the hospital allowed the treatment to be conducted on the person mentioned by Penny Bright.
I agree with Weka’s comments. I would wish to be allowed the treatment if I had the type of illness that MIGHT be cured by it.
“TC, if you are going to make claims for a study, you need to link to the full article. Lots of dubious research going on, even in peer reviewed journals”
I can’t really with this one – it’s a paid service (most medical journals are) and sharing a copy if i did purchase it could possibly break copyright.
“I’m interested to know if you think that the hospital should have refused to give the vit C to the man with bird flu and pneumonia.”
I am not sure to be honest, I wasn’t there and can’t really answer outside yes because it is an untested, non-evidence based treated and no because the man and his family make the ultimate choice in the matter. I can’t really answer.
However, back to the original post, I don’t Penny Bright is particularly, errrr, ‘bright’ in protesting a hospital for not using a technique without sufficient scientific backing.
You just need to link to articles that are open access or have been reviewed elsewhere 😉
btw, a single study of vitamin C used to treat a specific kind of cancer is not evidence that vitamin C has no clinical use at all.
Vitamin C is a registered medicine. It’s use for the man with flu/pneumonia was (presumably) off-label drug use. Is there a reason why that can’t be done again, in a careful considered way?
TheContrarian
Actually the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that Vitamin C is not an effective cancer treatment. If you cannot, you’re basing your belief on nothing but hot air.
Evidence that Vitamin C is a viable cancer treatment has been around since 1976,
when double Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling and Scottish surgeon Ewan Cameron showed an unparalleled increase in survival times in terminal cancer patients treated with vitamin C.
Reevaluation of prolongation of survival times in terminal human cancer
The reason the medical profession don’t recognize such studies is because cancer is a multi million dollar business that would not be anywhere near as profitable if people were encouraged to us a cheap and readily available treatment such as Vitamin C.
Oh dear… You really are an ignorant doofus! Vitamin C has been used to treat many ailments from Autism to LSD Abuse. It’s an essential vitamin after all that if depleted can cause serious health problems. Vitamin C helps the immune and the detoxification system to function properly. It has also been empirically proven with many peer reviewed scientific studies to help cancer patients.
But don’t let your ignorance stop you from making a fool of yourself TheContrarian.
The study you link to has been debunked numerous times and has been superceded by a number of better designed and more reliable trials.
http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/123-1324/4404/
Linus Pauling was a great man, however, his insistence that vitamin C could cure large proportions of patients with cancer was without foundation.
Wow! That’s your evidence… An article written by Shaun Holt from Tauranga? FFS!
Are you aware that the Mayo Clinic study used relatively low oral doses for short periods, rather than the combination of high oral and intravenous (IV) doses in the Pauling and Cameron study?
Clearly that’s not debunking! It’s the pharmaceutical industry trying and failing to discredit alternative medication that works. Were you also aware that the Mayo Clinic has refused to provide anybody with all their research data so their process can be verified. As a result, the Mayo Clinic study is next to useless!
Besides, in 1982 a study (PDF) by Murata A. Morishige F. Yamaguchi H confirmed Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron’s findings. Administering large doses of ascorbate prolongs survival times of terminal cancer patients.
That initial study by Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron in 1976 was reevaluated and confirmed as correct by them in 1978. In fact its been verified on numerous occasions by institutions and researchers who don’t have a vested interest.
Good oh, if you are ever unlucky enough to get cancer feel free to utilise Vitamin C to your hearts content in preference to proven treatments.
Large dosses of Vitamin C is a proven treatment higherstandard.
BTW, I linked to the wrong study above. The Murata A, Morishige F, Yamaguchi H study states:
In comparison your argument is feckless!
No, Vitamin C is a proven treatment for only the following conditions.
Vitamin C deficiency disorders such as scurvey and as an adjunct in idiopathic methaemoglobinaemia.
So those three independent studies I’ve linked to, which all have similar results prove nothing? It would seem that just like the doofus you’re only proving your own ignorance HS.
Todd the studies you’ve linked to are laughable.
As I’ve said there is no reliable evidence that Vitamin C of any dose has a beneficial effect for patients suffering from tumours.
However if you are unlucky enough to ever be diagnosed with cancer there are a number of places in NZ you can access iv Vitamin C should you think it will be of benefit to you.
I would however suggest you access the more proven and effective mainstream therapies before going down that track.
Why are those studies laughable exactly? People cannot access Vitamin C treatment in a public hospital HS, which was kind of Penny’s point in the first place. PS my names not Todd.
They cannot access Vitamin C in a public hospital due to its lack of proven efficacy, they can access it from a number of alternative medicine clinics around NZ.
Not surprisingly there are no reports from these alternative medicine centres of miraculous outcomes.
I haven’t the time or will power to attempt to educate you on what constitutes a well designed reliable trial but feel free to investigate on google scholar or the like.
I refer to your previous handle which was Todd prior to the Jackal I believe.
You haven’t the time HS because you’re talking shit. Those studies I’ve linked to constitute well designed and reliable research, unlike the piece of rubbish you linked to.
Answer me this if you can. Clearly the pharmaceutical industry has an ulterior motive to show that Vitamin C is not a viable medicine… What would be the ulterior motive for the researchers/scientists who show that high doses of vitamin C can treat cancer? Why would they lie HS?
Please use my current handle. Jackal
Todd the studies you linked to were nether blinded, nor randomised according to tumour type, KS or previous treatment chemotherapy.
The commentary I linked to had a number of references at the bottom some of which are to randomised blinded studies if you would care to look the trials showing no effect of Vitamin C have generally been funded via the institution where they have been carried out of via educational grants.
If the pharmaceutical industry had any inkling that vitamin C was useful in cancer or nay other illness they would make minor modifcations in the molecule to make it more efficacious patent it and make a fortune.
I would dearly like vitamin C to be useful in the treatment of cancer due to its low toxicity unfortunately there balance of evidence suggests that this is the case.
Wrong again HS. Many of the studies showing a positive result are clinical trials that don’t actually require blinded testing. However the Linus Pauling and Ewan Cameron study used a thousand matched controls. This is used for observational data (i.e. non experimental data).
It’s obvious that you don’t really know what you’re talking about and haven’t even bothered to read that study properly, so here’s the guts of it again:
You will find that any studies you’re able to provide that show Vitamin C has no effect on cancer tumors was because they didn’t use it at a high enough dose to achieve plasma concentrations that are generally cytotoxic to tumor cells.
I like your Freudian slip there BTW. On the balance of evidence it really does seem to be the case that Vitamin C is an effective treatment for cancer.
“Many of the studies showing a positive result are clinical trials that don’t actually require blinded testing.”
Todd you don’t have the foggiest idea what you’re talking about, Paulins study has been evaluated and critiqued repeatedly and is still taught in medical shools in relation to poor study design.
To quote the chief of the clinical investigations branch of the National Cancer Institute’s cancer therapy program…..
‘…the vitamin C and control groups had not been properly matched, no data had been published to demonstrate that the patients had been matched by stage of their disease, functional ability, weight loss, and sites of metastasis, all of which are important judging the stage of the disease. Pauling and Cameron’s patients began getting vitamin C when Cameron judged them “untreatable” and their subsequent survival was compared to that of the control patients from the time they had been labeled “untreatable.”
If the two groups were comparable, the average time from the initial diagnosis to “untreatable” status should be similar for both groups. But they were not. Hence Cameron’s patients had been labeled untreatable earlier in the course of their disease and would therefore be expected to live longer, also more than 20% of the patients in the control group had died within a few days of being labeled untreatable, whereas none of Cameron’s patients had died. This, too, suggested that Cameron’s patients had had less advanced disease when they were labeled untreatable…..’
As I’ve said if you are unfortunate enough to be diagnosed with cancer feel free to try alternative methods, I’ll stick with proven therapies.
Apologies for my poor typing this morning phones are shite to type upon.
Your evidence is an article written by Shaun Holt from Tauranga and one Medical Doctor… C’mon HS, surely you can do better than that?
Firstly William D. DeWys “research” does not seem to be available online? Secondly he makes a number of unfounded statements that are easily refuted.
Here’s how the selection process was undertaken:
From the 1978 reevaluation study (PDF).
Looks like your doctor DeWys is full of shit HS. It would really help the debate if you actually bothered to read the research instead of regurgitating what is obviously false information… But I guess I’m asking for too much?
Todd from memory the NCI made their comments on Paulings study well after all Paulings results were published.
As DeWys was at that stage one of the senior investigative clinicians at the NCI I’d hardly call him full of shit.
http://history.nih.gov/nihinownwords/docs/Dr.WilliamD.DeWys.htm
Pauling however, tended to get more and more bizarre in his claims regarding the utility of Vitamin C. As I’ve said previously if you are unfortunate enough to ever suffer from cancer I’d recommend starting with proven inteventions rather than the like of high dose iv Vitamin C.
DeWys is clearly full of shit HS. The paragraph I’ve quoted from Pauling and Cameron’s reevaluation study totally contradicts what he has said. DeWys claims that it was Linus Pauling himself who chose the test subjects when it was in fact senior members of the Medical Records Staff in Vale of Leven Hospital.
It really comes down to who has a reason to lie… I’ve provided a reason why the pharmaceutical industry would promote false information. I ask again… Why would Pauling and Cameron and all the other scientists and researchers who have shown high doses of Vitamin C can treat cancer lie?
Why do you keep repeating yourself like a broken record HS? This is becoming tedious! Let me know if you can provide some actual evidence that Vitamin C doesn’t work to treat cancer. Until then I think we should just agree to disagree.
Todd, to suggest that this is some cover up by pharmaceutical suppliers is bizarre – Vit C is available from many alternative medical practitioners here and overseas who offer it alone or along with other therapies to persons who are mistrusting of standard treatment or who have no other options. It is not used for the treatment of cancer by the vast majority of oncologists due to there being no compelling data that is efficacious.
I repeat myself as you do not seem to understand that there is no robust evidence to support the use of Vit C in the treatment of cancer and it is wisest to defer to the experts in the field of medical, and radiation oncology for treatment options which have been the subject of more robust scientific study.
Regarding Pauling’s motives I do note that from histories online The Linus Pauling Institute of Science and Medicine was founded in 1973 and operated under that name until 1995 [20]. The institute was dedicated to “orthomolecular medicine.” For many years, its largest corporate donor was Hoffmann-La Roche, the pharmaceutical giant that produces most of the world’s vitamin C. Many of the institute’s fundraising brochures contained questionable information. During the 1980s, for example, they falsely stated that no significant progress had been made in cancer treatment during the previous twenty years.
And yes I agree to disagree with you.
So you’ve discredited double Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling by providing information from a very dubious website. How do you propose to discredit Murata A, Morishige F, Yamaguchi H, N. H. Riordan, H. D. Riordan, X. Meng, Y. LI and J. A. Jackson, who are just a few of the researchers and scientists that found similar results?
You’re suggesting that there’s some sort of worldwide conspiracy to provide false information about Vitamin C so that manufacturers can sell more. Just to let you know, Acorbate can be purchased for as little as $1 per kg and even less in larger quantities.
In comparison, here’s a breakdown of what cancer treatment costs in the US:
Nobody is going to get rich from using Vitamin C to treat cancer HS. Which makes the latest twist to your now completely defunct argument laughable!
Todd
Not at all, Only Paulings views on cancer and Vitamin C/orthmolecular medicine have been discredited which in his defense he was starting to get somewhat senile towards the end of his life so one cannot really level any serious accusations at him, the vast majority of his scientific work was magnificent this can be said of many famous scientists and even several nobel laureates – I don’t think any of them would claim that every theory they had ever promulgated was correct.
I’m not suggesting there’s any sort of worldwide conspiracy at all, that appears to be your position in relation to the unwillingness of health professionals in particular those in the area of oncology to utilise Vitamin C to treat cancer, my position is that it is not used by health professionals in this setting as it has no utility.
Yes I do realise ascorbate is cheap as are many if not most APIs, this does not mean the actually finished product can be provided to patients cheaply and indeed even if they can be provided to patients cheaply there are unscrupulous individuals such as our own infamous Milan Brych who made fortunes from quackery.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to suggest in relation to cancer costs in the US ?
I thought you had agreed to disagree ?
I cannot find any verifiable information to show that Linus Pauling suffered from senility. You’re not making shit up again are you HS? This is the usual baseless accusations leveled against researchers by people who don’t like the results and have a vested interest in keeping the status quo.
The US cancer treatment costs from 2005 are to show the difference between conventional and alternative treatment using Acorbate. As clearly stated, nobody is going to get rich by using Vitamin C to treat Cancer, and that’s one of the reasons it’s not being utilized. There is therefore no financial reason to promote false information to promote Vitamin C as you believe. You must be suffering a bit of senility yourself if you didn’t understand that HS.
Your contention that Acorbate needs to have extensive changes made so it can be utilized is obviously incorect! The studies show that Acorbate in its present form is effective at treating cancer if administered at high enough doses intravenously and orally.
Then how do you explain the researchers and scientists listed above having the same results as Linus Pauling’s study if it’s not a conspiracy between them?
In contrast, I think it is a deplorable conspiracy to not generally use a cheap and effective alternative medication to treat a disease that one in three Kiwis will suffer from. Clearly there’s a profit motive to repressing an inexpensive medication and pharmaceutical companies are not beyond reproach. For instance Glaxo Smith and Kline was recently fined $3 billion for putting peoples lives in danger purely to make money. That criminal proceeding was an isolated case lost in a sea of medical corruption.
Whether you like it or not HS, there is robust evidence that shows categorically that high doses of Vitamin C is effective at treating cancer. I’ve provided some of this information here to which you’ve not adequately responded. That’s because there’s far more scientific research that shows Vitamin C is an effective treatment than says it isn’t.
Therefore there is a consensus amongst scientists that it works… It just needs to be recognized by medical practitioners, who unfortunately are in the pocket of big pharmaceutical companies. Until their profit motive to use inferior and more expensive medications is addressed, cancer patients will continue to not have ready access to an a proven and inexpensive treatment that works.
You still have not linked to DeWys’ “research” that apparently discredits the Reevaluation of prolongation of survival times in terminal human cancer? Making claims that are unverifiable is what quackery is all about. But feel free to keep quacking if you like HS.
You really are a trifle odd Todd.
There’s really little point in trying to educate you on the methodologies and rationale supported by vast amounts of reputable, repeatable and robust clinical research for treating the various types of cancers they way we do and the various costs associated with either surgery, radiation and chemotherapy or combinations of all three as you appear set in your mind set that it’s all a massive conspiracy by company/s and person’s unknown who’ve duped the medical profession, regulators and scientists into treating cancer patients how we do rather than with Vitamin C.
It’s not odd at all to believe that the majority of studies into using Vitamin C to treat cancer are correct. If people just accepted the status quo as it is, we would never have any progress at all.
@ The Jackal,
I don’t know why you bother to continue this debate with Higher Than a Kite, for despite having provided it with plenty of reasoned argument, AND evidence it continues to ignore you and bang on about “there being no evidence” when both you and myself provided substantial evidence that it has been an effective treatment. (the evidence I provided indicated that it would be worth further investigation).
Science would have gotten nowhere if the view prevailed that anything that hasn’t been fully scientifically evaluated doesn’t exist and is of no effect.
That it is now deemed only those with money are allowed the privilege to decide what gets scientifically evaluated or not, and that that decision is left to their poor imaginations as to what will lead to profit and what won’t, then methinks this situation is going to lead us to less and less discoveries.
+1
BL and Todd are either of you are qualified cancer specialists, clinicians of any sort or do you have science background ?
The evidence that Vitamin C has any utility in the treatment of cancer has not been demonstrated in any useful manner the interventions which are used in the treatment of cancer have been proven useful in modern blinded trials which is why those treating patients with cancer utilise these proven interventions and continue to treat and trial new interventions which may improve patient outcomes this has lead to major advances in the outcomes of patients with many tumour types over the last several decades
Here’s one instead
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1224653/?tool=pubmed
“Recent clinical evidence, however, indicates that the role of ascorbate in cancer treatment should be examined anew …Despite inconsistencies, some in vitro studies showed that ascorbate killed cancer cells, although mechanisms and physiologic relevance were unclear “
Yes it’s interesting – it’s also in vitro.
No well designed in vivo studies have shown a benefit of vitamin c in the treatment of cancer.
The thing that irked me about the comment by TJ was…
‘The reason the medical profession don’t recognize such studies is because cancer is a multi million dollar business that would not be anywhere near as profitable if people were encouraged to us a cheap and readily available treatment such as Vitamin C.’
To suggest that oncologists only utilise surgery, radiotherapy and chemotherapy to treat cancer due to some profit motive is offensive.
Agreed. They utilise those methods because its the only options those practitioners are exposed to in their training and the only options they are given in a hospital setting.
The filtering happens faraway at the business case level in the big pharma and medical device corporates. There is nothing patentable or profitable about IV Vit C so no surprise it goes no where.
Yes that’s obviously the reason, all clinicians, regulatory authorities, researchers, patient advocacy groups and QANGOS such as PHARMAC have been duped.
PS I am being sarcastic as this is about as useful as debating 9/11 with Eve.
Meanwhile, ebola rears its head again.
Probably the secret world government preparing to send us all to lizard feeding farms.
hs – don’t be a dick. I stated very clearly that the decisions are made BEFORE it gets to PHARMAC or any front line clinicians. Don’t go intellectually blind on me all of a sudden and refuse to think by hiding behind the Twin Towers.
You seem to be trying to say that pharmaceutical corporates don’t assess potential products for profitability before committing to their development, and that they don’t cull out all but the most financially promising treatment candidates/areas of health. Of course they do. They are profit driven private enterprises.
Its why we have a shitload ofexpensive drugs to deal with important health problems like Developed World Impotence and Developed World Obesity, and fuck all antibiotics for the 3rd world.
CV I’m not being a dick just frustrated that persons such as yourself continue to spread such inanity and false hope and then seek to accuse some dark motive and cover up as the obvious rationale as to why no one heeds your advice.
for your information the WHO via a number of pharmaceutical companies in india and the like supplies anti virals, anti biotics and other medical supplies into the third world at very reasonable pricing.
Similarly R&D in the pharmaceutical arena is carried out less and less by the huge pharmaceutical players as they are Dilbert like and more and more by very small researchers like those we have in Dunedin, Wellington and Auckland.
Phase 1 and 11 research has been and is being carried out with iv Vitamin C by laboratories under the auspices of the NCI in a number of tumour types with less than exciting results.
If it worked, Pharmac would demand it be used. Just like they demand the cheapest of any other drug be used, if mostly effective. This is the problem patients whose meds don’t relieve their disease face – Pharmac will not sign up to expensive drugs if there are, in their opinion, cheaper alternatives that suit most people. If there was evidence Vitamin C worked Pharmac would be all over it.
A case of watch this space if Vit C is proved useful.
Hi Rosy,
There is an issue regarding what gets studied. I.e something may be effective, yet not so easily capitalized on therefore something that IS easier to capitalize on will be chosen over it.
Also
http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/abuses_of_science/how-corporations-corrupt-science.html
Blue Leopard, I understand your issues with pharmaceutical corporations, and it is valid in a profit-driven health service, but I think you’ve missed the point entirely. Pharmac have been shown to be quite willing to dump big pharma and it’s take on research outcomes to save money. That’s Pharmac’s brief. Keep the population provided with the drugs required, but at the cheapest possible price. The Herceptin issue is a case in point. So is funding for advanced auto-immune disease suppressants.
Pharmac will also fund research if they think a drugs regime that big pharma doesn’t want will save money. Once again the Herceptin debate is a good example. Pharmac will not rule out vitamin C if it thinks there is a chance that it will be effective at a cheaper price than any other drug. And with Vitamin C, that would have to be about all of them (barring, maybe, methotrexate and similar very old chemotherapy drugs). It simply makes no sense that Pharmac would abandon this model to avoid using Vitamin C if it was effective.
@ Rosy
Its good to here that about Pharmac, however it would appear that if the rigorous clinical trials have not been conducted, I suspect that Pharmac could not follow the course of action you are suggesting they do.
From what you say, however, hopefully when word finally gets to them of the following studies, they might fund the further clinical trials recommended on the matter:
Pharmacologic ascorbic acid concentrations selectively kill cancer cells: action as a pro-drug to deliver hydrogen peroxide to tissues:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16157892?dopt=Abstract
High-dose Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid) Therapy in the Treatment of Patients with Advanced Cancer:
http://ar.iiarjournals.org/content/29/3/809.full
(The following scroll down to “Mega-dose vitamin C as cancer therapy”):
http://www.patrickholford.com/index.php/advice/betterhealtharticle/954/
Cystic Fybrosis barely understandable however scroll to ‘discussion’
“Several candidate molecules have been shown to be effective CFTR activators in vitro or in vivo (35); however, the majority of compounds that activate CFTR have additional pharmacological effects, whereas vitamin C is on the FDA’s list of substances generally recognized as safe, and mega-doses of vitamin C (up to 2.5 g/day) are well tolerated (33). Our study highlights the potential therapeutic use of vitamin C as a safe, nontoxic, and efficacious small molecule for the activation of CFTR-mediated Cl transport in epithelia.”
http://www.pnas.org/content/101/10/3691.full?sid=969ab485-314e-4d47-9ba3-881accae7334
Renal disease
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22706571
Hemodialysis (whatever that is)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22634906
improved quality of life for breast cancer treatment side effects
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22021693
Higherstandard,
Thankyou for acknowledging the link I provided.
I do believe there are issues surrounding scientific study that can warp outcomes.
I provide a link about the issue which describes the summary of a report written by UCS (Union of Concerned Scientists)
http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/abuses_of_science/how-corporations-corrupt-science.html
One thing that they don’t mention, which I have seen conveyed regarding scientific study is that the required finance will often flow where the most profits are to be had (understandable self interest in the part of investors, however this can lead to some areas of knowledge lacking the investigation it deserves)
No Jackal, you have it all wrong. The Burden of Proof lies on someone making the positive claim i.e. Vitamin C is a viable cancer treatment. I didn’t make that claim, you and Penny have therefore the Burden on Proof is on you.
Please view this chart:
http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/rhetological-fallacies/
Specifically that ‘Under Attack section which lists an example of the burden of proof fallacy as thus,
“I don’t need to prove my claim – you must proof it is false”.
Hence your comment:
“…the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that Vitamin C is not an effective cancer treatment…”
is logically invalid.
No Jackal, you have it all wrong. The Burden of Proof lies on someone making the positive claim i.e. Vitamin C is a viable cancer treatment. I didn’t make that claim, you and Penny have therefore the Burden on Proof is on you.
Please view this chart:
http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/rhetological-fallacies/
Specifically that ‘Under Attack section which lists the burden of proof as thus,
“I don’t need to prove my claim – you must proof it is false”.
Hence your comment:
“…the burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that Vitamin C is not an effective cancer treatment…”
is logically invalid.
Google and the various results it provides proves Penny Bright’s (and my) claim. You do know how to use google don’t you doofus?
Show me the peer reviewed scientific consensus
Silly Contrarian, who needs peer review (or as Penny writes it, “peer review”) when you’ve got Google?
Those are peer reviewed studies. Three studies saying Vitamin C works to treat cancer compared to your none saying it doesn’t work… Are you guys being stupid on purpose?
lolz that takes about 15 years, and usually changes upside down on its head about 15 years after that.
try opening the link that I posted. You will find FACTS and EVIDENCE
Quackwatch, now there’s a website with an agenda.
Only an idiot dismisses the usefulness of the placebo effect.
I’m sure the man whose life was saved would be well please if he knew it was only placebo and so died instead 🙄
Fisi anal Not true when it comes to this disease Alan Smith was in a coma for along time and everything they threw at him antibiotics etc did not work however after a short spell on high dose vitamin C he recovered miraculously Research in this area has not been carried out to completely dismiss it would be foolish.
May have already been discussed on here, but WTF is our PM on!?
“we welcome the opportunity to cooperate with the U.S. in the next conflicts”
http://36th-parallel.com/2012/09/press-releases-remarks-with-new-zealand-prime-minister-key/
It seems that was the US people mis-interpreting Key’s garbled English. Was allegedly
“we welcome the opportunity to cooperate with the U.S. in this context”
http://publicaddress.net/hardnews/we-what/
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7607653/PMs-accent-leads-to-US-government-mistake
Some of the inaudible parts of the speech in the press release would look just as legit if they were redactions. eg “we will be doing it in (inaudible) but we hope (inaudible) look after its own security.” Hmmm..?
Classic!
John Key – Deputy Sheriff of the South Pacific
Oh dearie … is that like giving new meaning to double tongue? Or forked tongue?
John Key on diction …
Came across that “John Key’s prunciation guide” a while back…it is hilarious 😀
actually, there is a new potential warlord in town, so chew on those noodles
Christchurch: It was cold, and the servants and officials stood around a fire they had made to keep warm. Peter also was standing with them, warming himself.
As Simon Peter stood warming him-self, he was asked, “You are not one of his disciples, are you?
He denied it, saying, “I am not.”
“What is truth?” Pilate asked.
(u could not make this stuff up)
🙂
and emperors have converted before
🙂
I hope that, on top of all the concern shown about child poverty, people will not have missed the dismal news of the rise in youth suicide (including at least one preteen child). Since the last quarter, suicides of those aged between 20 and 24 have risen from 11.4% to 13.5%; Ages between 15 and 19 have risen from from 25.5% to 27.5%.
There will be a number of causes, largely on account of government “policies”, but 28% of the dead were unemployed, many depressed. Back in May, our youth unemployment had the 19th highest rate in OECD countries. Co-founder of the Foundation for Youth Development (FYD), Graeme Dingle, says “Youth unemployment is a growing issue and one that will have a huge impact on the country. If it is left to fester the cost is simply unaffordable in the long run.””
Key boasts today of devoting 62 million dollars to problems of youth, but fails to mention this is to cover a four year period.
Many will be tempted to think, “well, these figures reflect only upon Maori, so what?” Maori and Pakeha are all together citizens of Aotearoa/New Zealand, suicides (whatever the cause) are not to be fixed upon any one race.
We have no idea, of course, of the huge number of attempted and unsuccessful suicides, hospitalised or covered up. How many were due to undue risks, for example in the road toll? Countless people are engaging in “suicidal living patterns”.
Very many human beings have little, if any, conscience or compassion, we have to accept that this is the fact. But, at the least, people might be bothered for basic economical reasons.
The experts in this field will have some sort of formula with which to get a rough idea of failed attempts v “successful” attempts. I have no idea where you would find this for NZ, unfortunately.
A WHO study estimates in Cananda 80-90% of suicide attempts fail.
Dr Terry wrote ” Since the last quarter, suicides of those aged between 20 and 24 have risen from 11.4% to 13.5%; Ages between 15 and 19 have risen from from 25.5% to 27.5%. ”
I dont understand these figures. 25-27% of those aged 15-19 commit suicide?
Yes it sounds shockingly high to say that almost one third of particular group are suicidal. Maybe they are. Otherwise the percentage increase relates to the figure of the period before, though in this case not supplied, i.e. let’s says 10 people died last year, and this year 12 or 13 people died; an increase on 10 by 27.5%
Clashman. For better accuracy, I suggest you research on Google. Sorry if my figures are misleading. I want only to point very clearly to the seriousness of the situation. What you quote from a Canadian source is probably fairly accurate for our society too.
From a quick look here; http://socialreport.msd.govt.nz/health/suicide.html it seems the figures should be per 100,000, not percentages.
That makes alot more sense to me.
I’m certainly not trying to diminish the seriousness of the situation, I just couldn’t get my head around the figuresquoted.
From memory, the latest coroner release might have been saying that 27% of those who committed suicide were aged 15-19.
But the point is valid – the government might hand-wring when attention is paid to the issue, but they sure won’t bother addressing any of the contributing factors (not solely economic, not solely counselling availability or bullying – it’s a very complex issue). I’m pretty sure this government will avoid 9 out of 10 of any identified possible contributing solutions, choosing only the least expensive tenth. But they’ll announce it 9 ties.
Here’s erstwhile suicide advocate Michael Laws this morning on Radio Live, putting on his deadly serious low voice, pretending to be compassionate and concerned about teen suicide: “I sometimes wonder if we shouldn’t show the faces of the hanging corpses.”
The woman caller on the other end of the line, obviously horrified, gasped, “Oh NO.”
M – it’s good to see you have weaned yourself off ZB, (or is that on the other radio in the kitchen?)
And Family First, as part of it’s Marriage campaign, scores an own goal by trying to mock and satirise the high level of suicide amongst young LGBT people:
http://www.gaynz.com/articles/publish/2/article_12229.php
Excuse me, WTF? It’s not only Maori, never has been and never will be…
The child who killed himself was non-Maori, and while there are proportionally fewer unemployed white people than there are unemployed Maori, there are still a huge number of unemployed white people.
It’s very unhelpful to make out that it’s all about Maori… as it’s equally unhelpful to say it’s all about yoof. To use a phrase that makes my teeth ache but it nevertheless true – older, white unemployed people, and older white people who kill themselves, are ‘doubly invisible’, as for various reasons the media really don’t get too exercised about white unemployed people, or non-yoof suicides. Disclosure: A family member, a white man in his forties committed suicide 8 years ago, and I was stunned. The media, awareness groups etc had me convinced that a 40-something suiciding was so unlikely as to be impossible…
You know things have gone too far when copyright enforcement robots kill a legitimate broadcast:
Why are they trying to get Julian Assange?
Why are the British and U.S. regimes trying to exact vengeance on Julian Assange?
Watch this….
Aficionadoes of black comedy will enjoy watching the bloviations of one Michael Mullen from 5:55 to 6:07 on the video.
Vengeance is something practiced by countries at war.
It seems the US is at war with pretty much everything and everyone. What a sad failure.
Vengeance is something practiced by countries at war.
And gangsters and criminals.
It seems the US is at war with pretty much everything and everyone.
This is a campaign against a dissenting journalist, a teller of truth; it’s a war on democracy.
What a sad failure.
They have been stymied by Ecuador.
Someone should ask John Key about his former mates are up to …
“Even as Greece desperately tries to avoid defaulting on its debt, American companies are preparing for what was once unthinkable: that Greece could soon be forced to leave the euro zone.
Bank of America Merrill Lynch has looked into filling trucks with cash and sending them over the Greek border so clients can continue to pay local employees and suppliers in the event money is unavailable.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/03/business/economy/us-companies-prepare-in-case-greece-exits-euro.html?pagewanted=all
Unilever sees poverty returning to Europe
Says it will now enact in Europe the same marketing and product strategies that it uses profitably in 3rd world and developing countries.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9501771/Unilever-sees-return-to-poverty-in-Europe.html
GO CAPITALISM!!!
That would be bribes and other corrupt practices then.
Aye. How long before the local entrepreneur is the one who ‘got ahead’ enough to afford an entire bottle of cooking oil that can then on-sold for a profit in ‘single meal worth’ polythene sachets?
Okay. Perhaps quite some way off.
But did you notice when they began selling 400g blocks of butter in competition with the 500g blocks at the ‘old’ 500g price? Or those 750g blocks of cheese that were all of a sudden available beside the 1 kg blocks at a price comparable with the ‘old’ 1 kg price? Or what about the air pumped into chocolate bars that kept the size and price (but not the weight) the same? Or how about charity shops rebranding as retail outlets?
And back to Europe, is it worth mentioning the call by the eurozone for Greece to introduce a 6 day working week?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/sep/04/eurozone-six-day-week-greece
Tubes? Going down? Nah!
maori certainly playing govt at their own game: RHETORIC
steering the discourse forward
man! a lotta people losing their Grip on all that money they Hoarded (P.T Barnum)
where your treasure is, there your heart will be
-original renaissance man
Heartbeat now (oh bucolic ol’ blighty) and the importance of being earnest
Debunking Economics
No, it’s not. It’s actually profit minimising behaviour. It’s the one I like to twit neo-classical economists with because it uses their own theory to prove that profit is a dead weight loss.
As Steve Keen says in his book, profit maximising firms (both monopoly and competition) will produce the same output. This leaves the firm in a competitive market with increased market share as the only option to increase profit and they can only do that if they lower the selling price which must lower profits for that firm. As each competitive firm will be doing the same thing the end result must, logically, be where marginal cost and marginal revenue are equal resulting in both the maximum output and minimum profit – in theory.
At that point the firm should be able to maintain itself (income = costs) and the people working there but it won’t be paying out dividends to shareholders. Thus cost cutting usually comes in so that profitability and dividends can be returned resulting, most likely, in the redundancies of workers and a decline in product going to market pushing prices and profits back up again. Unfortunately, the cost cutting has also resulted in a decrease in market demand from the redundancies. After that, it gets complicated…
There are two things that I take from this:
1.) For numerous sectors a well regulated and government owned monopoly will be the better option than competition as competition adds it’s own costs (unnecessary duplication and an even more convoluted regulatory system for starters) that society can do without. This seems especially true of natural monopolies such as telecommunications and power.
2.) Competition isn’t there to lower prices as the neo-classicals believe but to lower profits but it doesn’t work because A) we don’t have a perfectly competitive market B) corruption becomes an accepted means to maintain profits (i.e. collusion/cartel behaviour and cronyism) C) speculation for easy and high profits in the financial system replaces actually making stuff (especially in places where the market is saturated) and D) Firms are trying to maximise profit and not minimise it.
This all results in a few mega corporations ruling the market with small companies being kept out and the dead weight loss of profit still hurting everybody.
in another time they might have been called robber barons.
now they are just robbers.
stealing from ALL THE PEOPLE TO Pay for heka paratai and john banks juvenile fantasies of omnipotence.