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Open mike 04/11/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 4th, 2011 - 45 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

45 comments on “Open mike 04/11/2011 ”

  1. Occupy Dunedin have been offered a way out of their muddling in the mud – retaining an ongoing presence in the Octagon without the futile hassle of sleeping over, and without using much more space and abusing much more grass than they need.

    Is it compromise, or common sense? Decision pending, these wheels of revolution turn very slowly…..

    The Octagon offer.

    • Bill 1.1

      Regardless of what people decide to do, the offer makes interesting reading by sayng that a legal battle is not in the council or group’s interest.

      Who or what is the group? There are no committee members, no leaders or representatives who might be targetted for legal proceedings. The ‘group’ is fairly fluid. It has no membership. Visible ISO presence has gone. Same for Mana and Unite and any other signage pertaining to an organisation

      So, seems there is no defineable defendant for any legal proceedings.

      Which is one of the bits I appreciate about leaderless, horizontal organising (or the appearance of leaderless horizontal organising) . Authorities can’t deal with it in their accustomed manner.

      • Pete George 1.1.1

        I noticed the visible political presence has gone – most banners are gone. I wonder what brought about that.

        • Bill

          I guess George, that the sentiment being expressed by people that they were unhappy with banners that would give the impression of political allegiance, finally got through.

          Unfortunately, tiz a tad late in my opinion, as the general impression has already been made (and will stick), that ‘Occupy’ is synonymous wth those particular partisan groups/orgs.

          • Bill

            Or maybe, true to form, certain configurations that hold to parasitic Len in esque principles of organising determined they had achieved all the milage they could from that particular setting and made a unilateral decision to ‘disengage’.

            Doesn’t really matter any more, does it?

            • Pete George

              Hard to know. They have certainly made mistakes, the political alliances a major one. The real test of whether they have a durable movement or a fading flash in the pan is if they can learn from their mistakes and rebuild support.

              It sounds like some aren’t keen on clearing most of the Octagon lawn and rebuilding there presence to something practical and sustainable, that means ‘consensus’ is unlikely on any change.

    • AAMC 1.2

      PG I gather you still don’t get the occupy movement.

      “Occupy Until Victory”

      “Occupy Wall Street’s immediate challenge is not to appease the media but to maintain the momentum of escalation, to demonstrate that the next day will be ever more difficult for the entrenched system of corruption and conspiracy against the public.  The plutocrats in Washington DC must be left with the unshakable impression that only complete capitulation can resolve this crisis of legitimacy.  Altering the degree of corruption or level of economic insecurity must not, will not suffice. ”

      See Oakland yesterday, first general strike in US in 50 yrs, 5th biggest port in country closed. In NYC, Marines march past NY Stock exchange, George Bush holed up at Goldman Sacs with peasants at the gate. Church of England falling to pieces in London.

      It’s global! And you’re worried about the grass in the Octagon…

  2. Bill 2

    So what was all that stuff about Capitalism going hand in hand with Social Democracy? You know the teachings? The ones in University ‘political studies’ departments on how social democratic forms of governance were only possible with the rise or advent of capitalism. Gee. Seems the commissars weren’t quite on the money. Again.


    • Draco T Bastard 2.1

      Figured that one out years ago. Capitalism is dictatorial and is thus anathema to democracy. That is, of course, one reason (and probably the major reason) why we ended up with representative democracy (elected dictatorship) rather than actual democracy.

    • uke 2.2

      The business magazine Forbes recently published an article that gives an insight into the psychology of sharebrokers, fund managers, bankers, and financial journalists:
      The real Greek solution: a military coup

      There’s a not very funny joke going around the financial markets at the moment, that the real solution to the Greek problem is a military coup. 


  3. logie97 3

    With the news yesterday that unemployment is going up, any positive statements from Bennett and Key should be being interpreted as bs.

    With two of the Australian Banks announcing that they have just creamed amounts that appear to be approaching the National debt, how much more evidence do people need that selling off assets to foreigners is lunacy. (Would that we still had the Bank of New Zealand – oh and who was responsible for that debacle. I see some of those reef fish have made their presence known recently).

    • Rick Rowling 3.1

      logie – we all have the power. Choose to bank with one of the NZ-owned banks or credit unions. Convince others to do the same. Overseas banks are only creaming it because we choose to deal with them.

      • logie97 3.1.1

        I do Rick. Unfortunately government institutions like schools all bank with the Aussie Banks. Kiwibank should have used inducements to capture all those accounts.

    • logie97 3.2

      Does anyone have an idea if the banks got anything from the South Canterbury Finance bailout?

  4. Rodel 4

    Had a conversation with a National voting worker yesterday. Nice guy but not the sharpest knife in the drawer.
    His grannie had told him,’ Labour will try to look after you but National will look after your boss and then you can be sure your boss will look after you.’ He really believes this so he always votes National. I think these are the beliefs that make the difference.

    How does Labour combat this kind of simplistic faith?

    • Ianupnorth 4.1

      Remind him National brought in policies to erode his rights as a worker that he can then use against him.
      Also point out that if the business goes under the boss usually looks after number one, with little regard for others
      Lastly, point out that it is his and his colleagues toil that reaps greater rewards for his boss.

      • Vicky32 4.1.1

        Also point out that if the business goes under the boss usually looks after number one, with little regard for others

        Yes. Tell him about my late brother who was a loyal guy, so much so, that when a company he worked for went under, and he as an employee was an unsecured creditor, he went back to work for the guy (who he saw as simply unlucky, not venal) when he started a new company with his wife as MD. My naive brother’s loyalty was rewarded when the new company crashed, by a carton of the product (sunglasses) when the second company crashed. A carton of sunglasses in lieu of $12,000 in wages he was owed! The sequel is that when he died, I ended up with the sunglasses, which I couldn’t give away, as they were tragically out of fashion.. 

    • DavidW 4.2

      Flipping this an equally valid question is how does anyone with more than half a brain counter the ignorant faith-based garbage being sprouted by Granny. She must be a sour old bat if that is her view of life.

      • Ianupnorth 4.2.1

        And remind him bosses generally go running cap in hand to government when there is an earthquake/flood/drought/gas leak and that that is OK because governments have a responsibility to look after everyone, including those who do not have businesses

      • Rodel 4.2.2

        No. I think she was probably a nice old lady..He’s OK but she had this thing called ‘faith’…belief without evidence and she’s infected him.. A common human frailty. Maybe as a Labour supporter I have the same frailty..No of course not.

    • You are wasting your time Rodel.There is no way around some ignorant working class thickies Im sorry to say.
      Take farm workers for example. Low paid ,long hours and living in poor housing except for a few. Yet they consistently vote for the Nats,
      At the last election the rural booths were ckocka -block with farm workers all voting National .The firmly believe that unions are “a load of Commies’ and National is for the workers . They are thick and their only interest is in beer and rugby ,the exceptions are few and far between Im afraid ,I have no answer ,

  5. National’s Election Hoarding’s 9

    On 1 November there was a leaders debate between John Key and Phil Goff.

    During the debate Phil Goff called John Key out for lying about raising GST. Key side-stepped, saying he respected the position of Leader of the Opposition too much to call Goff a liar, and it was a point in Goff’s favour.

    Further questioning by Goff concerning John Keys lies met with the ludicrous justification from Shonkey that “We live in a denimic envronment… so sometimes circumstances change”.

    • Vicky32 5.1

      “We live in a denimic envronment…

      ?????????????? Half a bob each way on “denimic”! 😀

  6. Just stopping by for some fresh air before heading over to the ‘bog to throw peanuts at the monkeys again

    …dunno if it’s helping but it sure is funny to watch 🙂

  7. National’s Epic Fail

    Today TV3 Firstline reported that a Victoria and Otago Universities study found that the government has missed opportunities to reduce carbon emissions over the last three years… and their plans to protect the environment have been vague…

  8. just saying 9


    Hit the link if you want a bit of a laugh.

  9. Bennett’s War on Welfare

    There’s a set of right wing claims that are seldom said in the same breath, but when you put them together they add up to a very nasty attitude, and a dangerous flirtation with open fascism…

    • Uturn 10.1

      After your 5 point list of Right Wing We don’t Want Too’s, anyone refering to people as Bludgers can now be labelled as Blubbers.

      We don’t waaaaaaahn’t too.

      Why should weeee weeeep weep weep.

  10. aerobubble 11

    Oh look Goff is giving fully costed fiscal
    accounts tomorrow, lets attack him today,
    we know those accounts are finalized up to
    the last moment based on recent released
    annulaized data. So he won’t know the
    numbers, they haven’t been completed yet.
    Sorry, but what does that say about Key,
    that Key is so desperate to trip Goff
    up, that Key knows he’s lost if he doesn’t,
    and what does that say about Key opinion of
    voters? That he thinks you won’t notice.
    There’s no moral strength in being a
    premediative bully. Goff accused Key of
    lying in the last debate, it hurt Key, it
    was true. Now Key desperate to look strong
    and convincing on the fiscal matters,
    uses the most underhanded methods to achieve
    his aspiration. That’s not a leadership, its
    shows a leader bereft of accomplishments

  11. Ships at Rena Grounding 2

    This post is dedicated to logging the ships at or near the Rena Grounding from 1 November onwards…

  12. PROTEST!

    WHY: Why weren’t Don Brash and John Banks equally charged as fellow Directors of Huljich Wealth Management (NZ) Limited?

    WHERE:Outside Finance Markets Authority
    Level 5
    Ernst & Young Building
    59 Tyler St


    DATE: Tuesday 8 November 2011
    TIME: 11 am – 1pm


    Please help to spread the word………….


    Penny Bright
    Independent Candidate for Epsom
    Campaigning against ‘white collar crime’, corruption (and its root cause – privatisation) and ‘corporate welfare’.

    “Anti-corruption campaigner”.
    Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference 2009
    Attendee: Transparency International’s 14th IACC 2010

    [email deleted]

  13. Any political parties out there that want to use/support this or parts of this ‘Plan of Action’ – HELP YOURSELVES! 🙂


    1. Get our anti-corruption domestic legislative framework in place so NZ can ratify the UN Convention Against Corruption.

    2. Set up an NZ independent anti-corruption body tasked with educating the public and PREVENTING corruption.

    3. Change NZ laws to ensure genuine transparency in the funding of candidates for elected public office and political parties at central government level.

    4. Legislate for an enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ for NZ Members of Parliament (who make the rules for everyone else).

    5. Make it an offence under the Local Government Act 2002 for NZ Local Government elected representatives to breach their ‘Code of Conduct’.

    6. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Government elected representatives.

    7. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Central Government staff responsible for property and procurement, (including the Ministry of Health), in order to help prevent ‘conflicts of interest’.

    8. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Government staff, and Directors and staff employed by ‘Council-Controlled Organisations (CCOs) responsible for property and procurement.

    9. Make it a lawful requirement for details of ‘contracts issued’ – including the name of the contractor; scope, term and value of the contract to be published in NZ Central Government Public Sector, and Local Government (Council), and ‘Council-Controlled Organisation (CCO) Annual Reports so that they are available for public scrutiny.

    10. Make it a lawful requirement that a ‘cost-benefit analysis’ of NZ Central Government, and Local Government public finances be undertaken to prove that private procurement of public services previously provided ‘in-house’ is cost-effective for the public majority. If not – then return public service provision to staff directly employed ‘in-house’ and cut out these private contractors who are effectively dependent on ‘corporate welfare’.

    11. Legislate for a legally-enforcable ‘Code of Conduct’ for members of the NZ Judiciary, to ensure they are not ‘above the law’.

    12. Ensure that ALL NZ Court proceedings are recorded, and audio records made available to parties who request them.

    13. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ Judicial ‘Register of Interests’, to help prevent ‘conflicts of interest’.

    14. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ ‘Register of Lobbyists’ at Central Government Ministerial level.

    15. Make it a lawful requirement at NZ Central and Local Government level for a ‘post-separation employment quarantine’ period from the time officials leave the public service to take up a similar role in the private sector. (Help stop the ‘revolving door’).

    16. Make it a lawful requirement that it is only a binding vote of the public majority that can determine whether public assets held at NZ Central or Local Government level are sold; or long-term leased via Public-Private –Partnerships (PPPs).

    17. Make it unlawful for politicians to knowingly misrepresent their policies prior to election at central or local government level.

    18. Make laws to protect individuals, NGOs and community-based organisations who are ‘whistleblowing’ against ‘conflicts of interest’ and corrupt practices at central and local government level and within the judiciary.

    19. Legislate to help stop ‘State Capture’, a form of ‘grand corruption’ arguably endemic in NZ – where vested interests get their way at the ‘policy level’ before legislation is passed which serves their interests.

    Prepared and authorised by Penny Bright, Independent Candidate for Epsom 2011
    ( 86A School Rd, Kingsland. [email deleted])

  14. The Voice of Reason 15

    The Labour candidate for Rangitikei (Simon Powers’ vacated seat) has apparently spotted yet another astonishing cock up from the National candidate Ian McKelvie.
    McKelvie weirdly started his campaign by breaking the law, erecting his first hoardings a full week before the local council allowed them to go up. What made that doubly newsworthy is that the mayor of the council concerned was one Ian McKelvie. Even for a Nat hack, that’s pretty dumb and the local paper gleefully reprinted Farrar and WhaleOil’s description of him as a ‘moron’.
    Now he’s gone one step further, trashing one of his own party’s cornerstone environmental policies. 
    Pagani’s press release reports:
    “A National candidate is calling his own party policy “the biggest con that ever struck this world”.

    National’s Rangitikei candidate, Ian McKelvie, used the term at the National Council of Womens candidates debate last Friday to describe the emissions trading scheme.

    But Labour candidate Josie Pagani says the National Party supports the ETS, and can’t balance the government’s books without revenue from it. She today released a tape of Mr McKelvie using the expression.

    “No matter what Ian McKelvie thinks of it, the emissions trading scheme is part of the law and is supported to be part of the law by the government he wants to represent. The National Party is bringing agriculture into the emissions trading scheme in 2015. If he wants to get rid of the ETS then he needs to explain how the giant hole in the government’s budget will be filled.”

    “There will be very large tax rises for most people in Rangitikei, the government will have to borrow more and social services like schools and roads will have to be cut if the money that National has budgeted from the ETS were dumped.

    “What we have is Mr McKelvie in a veiled way implying he supports tax increases, borrowing and spending cuts. And he is repudiating his own party in doing so.”

    The candidate is calling his own party policy a “con”. What would people get if they voted for Ian McKelvie? National party policy or Ian McKelvie policy?

    “It might not matter what Ian McKelvie thinks because the party will ignore him.” Josie Pagani said.

    • Paw prick 15.1

      If he wants to get rid of the ETS then he needs to explain how the giant hole in the government’s budget will be filled.”

      Oh right so it is a tax then????

  15. Election 2011 Debate Winners

    Over the election, the Jackal team will be closely scrutinizing the debates and choosing the winner/s based on a number of factors like honesty, personality, effective oratory, audience participation, online feedback, debunking arguments, wit, policy and relevance…

  16. logie97 17

    Key challenges Goff to deliver the costings.
    They are delivered and instantly the MSM
    quote Key as an authority for comment, rather
    than doing the analysis themselves and challenging
    either Key or Goff accordingly.

  17. randal 18

    the msm in NZ are lazy and uninformed as a result of a whole lot of juniors brought in to lower wage rates and erase corporate memory.
    pathetic really but kiwis swallow it wholesale when most of it is only worth about 10c on the dollar.

  18. Tigger 19

    ‘Greek’ calculator. Racist wolf whistle about borrowing from China. Bitchy comment about the Occupy group are losers because John Minton is there. Where’s my cuddly Key who is safe to leave the baby with?

    • pollywog 19.1

      Where’s my cuddly Key who is safe to leave the baby with?

      oh you mean this John Key ?

      The couple were arrested in December last year after the girl was found hiding in a wardrobe with injuries to nearly every part of her body.

      She was starving, dehydrated and anaemic from internal bleeding.

      The girl’s scalp had been torn from her head, one of her toenails had been pulled off and she had allegedly been beaten by weapons including a hammer, broomstick and a machete.

      Following the couple’s arrest it emerged the girl’s teacher had written to Prime Minister John Key seeking help months before police intervened.


      yeah…where is that John Key ? and isn’t West Auckland, Paula Bennett, Minister for social welfare’s patch ?

      Guess John didn’t think it important enough to forward the letter on.

      Someone should ask him about that but i’m guessing he’ll say he never got he letter didn’t read it wasn’t at he meeting blah blah blah…yeah righto John

  19. NRT on Climate change: National’s record

    This is absolutely damning. Climate change is the biggest challenge facing our civilisation, and our government’s response is a mixture of sticking their fingers in their ears and hoping it goes away (their international and domestic foot-dragging) and leaving it to the next generation to fix (their inadequate “50% by 2050” target). Given the costs of inaction, they must do better.

    I think it’s far worse than that. National has in fact made the problem worse by curtailing to their corporate masters and giving industries that release carbon emissions an incentive to pollute even more. Here is what Mr February has to say over at Hot Topic.

    Nick Smith implies that the free allocations reduce but do not remove the exposure to the carbon price. This is simply not correct. If it was correct, units allocated to NZ Aluminum Smelters would be less than units surrendered. However, units allocated exceed my estimates of units needed for surrenders.

    That means the tax payer is subsidizing 120% of the emissions currently being produced from the polluting industries outlined in the article. I don’t recall ever giving National my permission to threaten our existence by ensuring carbon emissions are not reduced… do you?

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