Open Mike 07/05/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 7th, 2018 - 185 comments
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185 comments on “Open Mike 07/05/2018 ”

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  1. Ed 1
    7 May 2018 at 6:46 am

    We live in 1984.

    “As I write, with over 75% of all yesterday’s English local election results in, Labour has a net gain of 55 councillors compared to the high water mark of the 2014 result in these wards, while the Tories have a net gain of one seat against a 2014 result which was regarded at the time as disastrous for them, and led the Daily Telegraph to editoralise “David Cameron Must Now Assuage the Voters’ Rage”.

    Yet both the BBC and Sky News, have all night and this morning, treated these results, in which the Labour Party has increased by 3% an already record number of councillors in this election cycle, as a disaster. What is more, they have used that false analysis to plug again and again the “anti-Semitism in the Labour Party” witch-hunt. It was of course the continuous exacerbation of this mostly false accusation by Blairite MP’s which – deliberately on their part – stopped the Labour Party doing still better. The Blairites are all over the airwaves plugging this meme again today.”

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/05/37463/

    https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2018/05/05/people-are-showing-they-will-not-be-fooled-by-the-bbcs-anti-corbyn-bias/

    • chris73 1.1
      7 May 2018 at 7:16 am

      We do and we also note that you haven’t done your morning exercises…

    • Adrian Thornton 1.2
      7 May 2018 at 9:39 am

      @Ed +1, The establishment ‘western left’ ie the neo liberal Blairites, DNC, and most of our own Labour Party etc, including all their associated ‘liberal’ media arms would rather see the right win than see a real Left Progressive project gain any ground at all, that much is plain for all to see.

  2. Morrissey 2
    7 May 2018 at 6:54 am

    How the New York Times and Israel coordinate propaganda

    By the way, has our media darling Jacinda uttered a word of support for the peaceful protestors being murdered every Friday?

    http://normanfinkelstein.com/2018/05/06/how-the-ny-times-and-israel-coordinate-propaganda/

    • Observer Tokoroa 2.1
      7 May 2018 at 8:13 am

      May I ask
      .
      What is Morrissey ? Is he /she proposing a reopening of Auschwitz ?. Buchenwald perhaps. Clearly, he is yet another misogynist misfit bully, kicking the ass off Jacinda.

      The sissy Morressy
      Whatever, he/she is, he/she is rather spiteful. Smacking women around has become a major national party trait. Sickening.

    • Adrian Thornton 2.2
      7 May 2018 at 10:02 am

      +1 Morrissey, the lack of pretty much any ongoing MSM coverage of the massacres taking place in Gaza right now is shameful, but also unfortunately unsurprising.

      I don’t think Jacinda would never put herself on the line for an issue of morality if it would hurt her politically, remember she is of course only another third way neoliberal, just enabling in softening the multiple blows of a debunked economic ideology.

  3. Sanctuary 3
    7 May 2018 at 7:22 am

    I have come to the conclusion Corbyn will never be the PM of the UK. Which isn’t to say I don’t think he can – and probably will – win the next general election over there. It is just he will never be allowed to form a government.

    Here is what will happen. Labour will win the next election under Corbyn and the Blairite Torys in Labour, having coat tailed back into parliament under a Labour banner, will declare that they “cannot in good conscience” allow Corbyn to rule and implement his “disasterous policies” and that for the “good of the UK” they’ll form a rump centrist party and prop up the Tories for five more years.

    That doing so might fatally damage UK democracy and even trigger violent rioting and a semi-coup will be ignored; The Blairites have demonstrated no powers of reflection or introspection. They’ll absolve themselves of all blame, and smear their opponents and pass ever harsher laws to repress dissent until such time as they get their tunr to ascend to the house of Lords and the boards of various financial institutions.

    • Ed 3.1
      7 May 2018 at 7:30 am

      The solution is mandatory deselection.

    • james 3.2
      7 May 2018 at 9:36 am

      “I have come to the conclusion Corbyn will never be the PM of the UK”

      On that part we agree.

    • AB 3.3
      7 May 2018 at 11:50 am

      “I have come to the conclusion Corbyn will never be … allowed to form a government.”
      Quite possibly – and I have to confess that I’m impatient to see how such a prospect would play out. Your scenario is certainly imaginable – and there are darker alternatives in the background.
      What lengths will a corrupt and anti-democratic UK establishment go to in order to prevent it happening? Is there a chance that they will over-reach themselves so disgracefully that they lose control of the narrative? I hope we get the opportunity to see.

    • Sanctuary 4.1
      7 May 2018 at 8:25 am

      I am pretty sure we’ll be still talking about Marx long after Peter Singer’s ghost disappears from the land of the dead.

    • andrew murray 4.2
      7 May 2018 at 8:51 am

      Sorry…Peter who?

      • Ad 4.2.1
        7 May 2018 at 9:04 am

        🙂

        He’s a utilitarian ethicist.

        One of the biggest recent data-driven analyses of Marx is Piketty.

        Personally I prefer the Frankfurt variations, plus David Harvey and Freddy Jamieson.

        • andrew murray 4.2.1.1
          7 May 2018 at 11:27 am

          good on you Ad for seeing the comic irony in my comment, but you have piqued my interest.
          Hey I am absolutely with you on Habermas and David Harvey

    • Draco T Bastard 4.3
      7 May 2018 at 12:28 pm

      https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2018/04/30/karl-marx-200-years-on-exclusive-interview/

      WH: What about the global situation, have things turned out as you expected?

      KM: Pretty much. Since the fall of the Berlin Wall and Party-state leaderships who never read my work properly, we have for the first time in human history unrestricted capitalism across the Earth. The world proletariat has never been larger. But, with the neoliberal roll-back of socialism and social democracy the flaws of capitalism are starkly obvious. Stagnant economic growth, overproduction, underconsumption, massive private debt throughout the system and everyday life, financial bubbles and collapses, periodic economic crises, a truly massive slum population increasingly angry at their plight, wanting to migrate…. Capitalism is not in great shape, don`t you agree?

  5. Gabby 5
    7 May 2018 at 8:57 am

    Peter ‘we are all marxists now’, that’s who.

    • cleangreen 5.1
      7 May 2018 at 9:45 am

      And not only ‘Marxists’ Gabby;

      Sadly we also have ‘tyrants’ still terrorising us all; – destroying our world as this one is;

      Fact;

      The historic curse of John Key has now finally been visited on every other country he has chosen to curse and live.

      It is a fact that during the last decade, the US mainland, Hawaii, and NZ have all been at the centre of either earthquakes, volcanic activity, adverse weather events, or unstable governance.

      It just dawned on me that everywhere John Key has resided in has been severely affected by either earthquakes, floods, eruptions and unstable governments.

      I just hope that John key just resides elsewhere permanently now so NZ can find a way to recover from the earthquakes, floods, and all the other terrible effects this man has caused us all during his cured rein over us.

      I don’t recognise key as morally ‘fit’ for a knighthood.

      • alwyn 5.1.1
        7 May 2018 at 12:16 pm

        My goodness.
        Your leader must be Brian Tamaki.
        Your ridiculous rant about John Key is exactly the same thing as Tamaki was postulating.
        According to Brian gays, sinners and murderers were responsible for earthquakes. You pin it on John Key.
        Do you really believe this stuff, as Tamaki seems to, or is it simply the hangover from excessive consumption of mind-altering substances?
        For your Prophet’s views on the same events see
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11749215

        • OnceWasTim 5.1.1.1
          7 May 2018 at 1:06 pm

          Well maybe Ruth Richardson (Limited) then, as her website used to proudly tell us – as adviser to various Sth American ‘jurisdictions’ (on their policies – going forward).
          I’m not too sure she’d be too keen on visiting some of those places now (going forward).
          Bloody interesting btw, how you appear to be so protective of JK – that poor wee boy who struggled with a solo-mum having to do her best to put food on the table in a State House, and who rose to fame and fortune (‘on the back of’) his own efforts. Notwithstanding most others were doing loikwoise in those poorer suburbs of ChCH – some even faintly remembering the ‘night cart’.
          God how he must have felt SO bloody indequate having to attend BoiseHi rather than Christs.
          What rotters we all are to be so cynical of JK’s rise to fame because we happen to disagree with the morals and ethics with which he did so.
          JK should probably be shouting Nick Leeson a lunch somewhere in the Middle East where they can both have a replay of throwing the dice – winner takes all

          • alwyn 5.1.1.1.1
            7 May 2018 at 1:46 pm

            You really have very little connection with the real world.
            Protective of JK? Really? Can you demonstrate that or is it like so many of your statements, merely a product of your fetid imagination?

            “he must have felt SO bloody indequate having to attend BoiseHi “. I suppose you have access to his deepest thoughts. He doesn’t seem to have ever expressed the thoughts publicly. The only senior politician I have ever seen who expressed such views was Michael Cullen. He of course seems to blame all his bitterness on the fact that he went to Christs, not that he was excluded.

            Surely you aren’t as irrational as cleangreen. You do seem to be supporting this little epistle of his so it seems only reasonable to assume that you also think the Key can cause earthquakes.
            Can you explain the actual mechanism? Just what does he do to cause the faults to move? How does he cause the volcanoes to erupt?
            Please tell us. I am sure there are Geologists and Geophysicists who are dying to know. Of course if you did try and explain they would probably die from laughing about your views.

            • OnceWasTim 5.1.1.1.1.1
              7 May 2018 at 2:29 pm

              Maybe you’ve forgotten the spin and bullshit when JK first came to be PM.
              There were so many sad sack stories circulating about his rags to riches shit going round that it reminded me that a good many had bogs in the back yard and that for them it was Norman Normal.
              I’m not suggesting Key can cause Earthquakes, I am suggesting there are a good many who still think the sun shines brightly from an anus supported by a couple of knock-knees, and that there is a persona of someone that you appear to still idolise that’s about as genuine as a Chinese made Rolex.

              • alwyn …
                7 May 2018 at 3:06 pm

                You started this comment so well.
                Yes I do remember the rather over the top reaction to Key at the beginning. It happens with all of them and you are quite entitled to talk about it.
                The problem is that in the second paragraph you went from the general, “there were so many …..” to the particular “you appear to still idolise ….”.
                If you are going to make claims about me then I suggest you provide some evidence. Otherwise you are no different, in principle, to the rat-bags making up the stories about Gayford.

                • Gosman …
                  7 May 2018 at 3:14 pm

                  That’s different Alwyn. The made up stories about Gayford are false whereas the made up stories about you are quite obviously true 😉

                • OnceWasTim …
                  7 May 2018 at 4:45 pm

                  I defer to your spectacular superiority. i’M TRULY IN AWE

                  • alwyn …
                    7 May 2018 at 6:28 pm

                    You can’t be all bad. Anyone who appreciates Joe Cocker has some redeeming features.
                    I have had a soft spot for McFlock’s opinions ever since I found that he was a cigar enthusiast. Nobody who can understand the appeal of a good cigar can really be other than a gentleman underneath.

      • mary_a 5.1.2
        7 May 2018 at 12:43 pm

        Now there’s a point Cleangreen (5.1) … Old Nick himself do you think walking amongst us?

        Agree with your last comment. Key is morally bankrupt in just about every respect. A traitor of the highest degree!

  6. Herodotus 6
    7 May 2018 at 9:02 am

    With the Budget fast approaching perhaps our government should when selling us a vision not be too quick in over promising. (Included is the broken promise of the “deferred” $10 doctor visit that was to commence 1st July 2018)
    Re 1 Billion trees, to give some idea as to the scale of this
    https://www.mpi.govt.nz/funding-and-programmes/forestry/planting-one-billion-trees/
    During the depression in the USA the CCC planted over 3 billion trees, that involved 3 million people over 10 years !!!
    https://www.mpi.govt.nz/funding-and-programmes/forestry/planting-one-billion-trees/
    http://www.ccclegacy.org/CCC_Brief_History.html
    NZ has had enough of empty visions we had 9 years of it, and for the current govt to continue the trend …. Really doesn’t help NZ.

    • james 6.1
      7 May 2018 at 9:37 am

      “With the Budget fast approaching perhaps our government should when selling us a vision not be too quick in over promising. (Included is the broken promise of the “deferred” $10 doctor visit that was to commence 1st July 2018)”

      Its too late – they have already done the over selling – now they are in the letting people down phase.

      • Ankerrawshark 6.1.1
        7 May 2018 at 7:07 pm

        James I lot of people will understand being “let down” but labour having to phase in their policies such as cheaper GP visits given the disgusting underspending and deliberate move to cover up the state of Middlemore Hospital.

    • mauī 6.2
      7 May 2018 at 10:19 am

      Did you read the bit in the link that says we will plant half a billion trees at current rates anyway.. With a bit of creative accounting they could probably get to a billion without lifting a finger 🙂

    • McFlock 6.3
      7 May 2018 at 12:24 pm

      In the 1930s USA half a million coal miners mined 600million tons.
      Today a hundred thousand miners mine a billion tons.
      Be careful judging today’s potential by 1930s outputs.

      as mauī points out, we’re halfway there already.

      • Herodotus 6.3.1
        7 May 2018 at 12:47 pm

        And the Pantheon was built in in 8-9 years
        https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/unlocking-mysteries-of-the-parthenon-16621015/
        and the Romans built a bridge over the Rhine in 10 days
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar%27s_Rhine_bridges
        and finally Xerxes bridge built 480 bc reported by ,.. me !! ha ha Quicker than what was achieved last century
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerxes%27_Pontoon_Bridges
        Also don’t think that in todays world what we can achieve is always something special

        • McFlock 6.3.1.1
          7 May 2018 at 1:16 pm

          You used the Depression as a benchmark. So I did, too.

          I love discussions like these – one ends up in the most interesting (legal) places of the internet.

          Gabby’s comment about making wilding pines a protect species wasn’t far off the mark: the industry calls it “control pollinated” (pdf report here).

          Which explains how only a few thousand forestry workers can “plant” 50-odd million trees a year. The biggest barrier seems to be finding 50,000 more hectares to put pine on over ten years.

          • Incognito 6.3.1.1.1
            7 May 2018 at 9:07 pm

            The Great Depression you say?

            As the dike grew, physicist Hendrik Antoon Lorentz calculated the force of the tide as the smaller gap made it stronger. Ten thousand workers, 27 large dredges, 13 floating cranes, 132 barges, and 88 tugs worked on the project at the end, timed to close the dike at low tide; it was finished on 28 May 1932.[2] Construction progressed better than expected; at three points along the line of the dike there were deeper underwater trenches where the tidal current was much stronger than elsewhere. These had been considered to be major obstacles to completing the dike, but all of them proved to be relatively straightforward. Two years earlier than initially thought, the Zuiderzee ceased to be, as the last tidal trench, the Vlieter, was closed by a final bucket of till. The IJsselmeer was born, even though it was still salty at the time.

            …

            The amount of material used is estimated at 23 million cubic metres (810,000,000 cu ft) of sand and 13.5 million cubic metres (480,000,000 cu ft) of till and over the years an average of around four to five thousand workers were involved with the construction every day, relieving some of the unemployment following the Great Depression. [my bold]

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afsluitdijk

        • Cinny 6.3.1.2
          7 May 2018 at 6:03 pm

          Herodotus, slaves built many great structures, so did armies way back then.

          Tell me again why some men joined the army, was it to avoid prison or a harsh sentence back in the day?

          Re the bridge the Romans built… “Since he (Caesar) had over 40,000 soldiers at his disposal, they built the first bridge in only 10 days using local lumber”

          What was the punishment for abandoning or disobeying the Roman army?

    • Draco T Bastard 6.4
      7 May 2018 at 12:50 pm

      During the depression in the USA the CCC planted over 3 billion trees, that involved 3 million people over 10 years !!!

      Did you even bother doing the sums on that assertion?

      3 billion divided by 3 million = 1000.
      1000 divided by 10 = 100
      100 divided by 356 = 0.356

      Or one tree planted every three and a half days.

      Meanwhile, in reality, a three person crew can do 10,000 in an eight hour shift if using a machine. Doing it by hand isn’t as fast but can still do 1000 to 3000 per day.

      To plant one billion trees at 1000 per day would be:

      1 billion divided by 1000 = 1 million days
      1 million days divided by 365 = 2739.72602739726 years

      For one person it’s a bit much so it probably pays to hire more than one person to do it. If they hired three thousand they could probably get it done in about a year.

      This is why you do at least some basic research before making bollocks assertions.

      • alwyn 6.4.1
        7 May 2018 at 2:00 pm

        His figures are supported by a usually reputable source.
        https://www.history.com/topics/civilian-conservation-corps
        You will of course have noted that he never said that there were 3 million people employed for the whole of the 10 years. He just said 3 million were involved.
        These people also did lots of other things you know
        Why don’t you read the link and then tell us whether you want to revise your comment after considering the facts.

        • Draco T Bastard 6.4.1.1
          7 May 2018 at 2:22 pm

          You will of course have noted that he never said that there were 3 million people employed for the whole of the 10 years.

          But it was certainly implied.

          Why don’t you read the link and then tell us whether you want to revise your comment after considering the facts.

          Nope. Same reason applies – it’s simply not comparable.

          • alwyn 6.4.1.1.1
            7 May 2018 at 2:25 pm

            Oh, dear.
            Never let a few facts get in the way of a good moan.
            Come on. It isn’t a very long article and I’m sure you can face the fact that you may, just occasionally, be wrong.

            • McFlock 6.4.1.1.1.1
              7 May 2018 at 2:39 pm

              All a bit moot because they didn’t just plant trees, anyway.

              • alwyn …
                7 May 2018 at 3:15 pm

                I did in fact point that out.
                “These people also did lots of other things you know”

                It doesn’t really make it moot of course, in the meaning of the word that is “no longer relevant”.
                It just makes DTB’s calculations look rather silly and the definition of moot as “subject to debate, dispute, or uncertainty” is certainly applicable.

                • McFlock …
                  7 May 2018 at 4:13 pm

                  So you’d agree that 1 billion trees is a reasonable goal and not an “empty vision” as Herodotus put it?

                  • Herodotus …
                    7 May 2018 at 4:42 pm

                    refer to my calcs below, whist the vision is commendable not sure about the ability to achieve this vision, the same about the 100,000 affordable modern houses regarding Kiwibuild over 10 years .
                    https://thestandard.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/KiwiBuild_Factsheet.pdf
                    The ability of our govt to achieve anything like there visions is highly questionable.
                    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/10/revealed-shane-jones-minister-for-100-million-trees-1-billion-regional-fund.html
                    So from this article of 1000 stems/ha. Many will be thinned out so there will not be 1billion tress grown. Even at 1000/ha this will still require 1m ha it still is 10,000km2 or 3.7% of the area on NZ

                    • McFlock …
                      7 May 2018 at 4:51 pm

                      1billion including the current 500million

                    • Herodotus …
                      7 May 2018 at 5:34 pm

                      IMO it displays the vacuum in the promise of 1b trees when you include existing replenishment replanting to achieve the desired numbers.
                      https://www.labour.org.nz/speech_from_the_throne
                      This government is committed to a new planting programme, planting 100 million trees a year to reach a billion more trees in ten years. This New Zealand First initiative also connects directly to this government’s determination to take action on climate change.”
                      See that reach a billion MORE trees, nothing about adding 500m to the existing 500m current replanting program.
                      https://www.labour.org.nz/red_letter_day_for_the_east_coast
                      “At the heart of this wide-ranging policy is the Government’s billion trees programme with enormous opportunities for our Māori people. It has to be remembered that nurseries are going to be needed for the millions of native trees that will have to be planted this year.
                      IMO our govt has been found out and they are scrambling to find a way of keeping their vision, even if it requires to act as the way Nation would.

                    • McFlock …
                      8 May 2018 at 12:32 pm

                      When the policy was announced it was perfectly clear. When Jones was made minister it was perfectly clear: “It is understood that about 50 million trees are already planted in New Zealand each year, meaning the new Government’s planting will double that.” From your own link in the previous comment.

                      And the goal is a billion trees planted. That is not misleading.

                      “See that reach a billion MORE trees, nothing about adding 500m to the existing 500m current replanting program.” Well, yeah, it’s a billion more trees than we have now.

                      Seriously, if your problem with the planting policy is that the new government will only double the number of trees rather than triple it, you’re doing pretty well. And if the challenge were so difficult, how did the nats get to 70million in 2012?

            • Draco T Bastard 6.4.1.1.1.2
              7 May 2018 at 3:07 pm

              Riiiight.

              So, can you tell me how to compare a conservation effort doing everything and involving millions of people over a decade can be compared to a single, specific, task that will be done by a couple of thousand people over a year or so?

              Can you tell me how, given the maths, it’s not actually possible to plant a billion trees as implied by Herodotus ?

              • alwyn …
                7 May 2018 at 3:21 pm

                The assertion Herodotus made, and that you objected to was very simple.
                “During the depression in the USA the CCC planted over 3 billion trees, that involved 3 million people over 10 years”.
                You then tried to claim that these numbers must be false and said
                “This is why you do at least some basic research before making bollocks assertions”.
                The assertion as stated was not bollocks. There were that many people involved and they did plant that many trees.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  7 May 2018 at 6:31 pm

                  You then tried to claim that these numbers must be false

                  I didn’t say that they were false – I said that they were bollocks and they are. He tried to claim that planting lost of trees couldn’t be done because three million couldn’t do it in the 1930s.

                  That’s what my calculation was about. There’s absolutely no way that even a volunteer program would have people planting one tree per three and a half days each. It’s obvious that they would have had far fewer people planting 1000+ per day each.

                  The assertion as stated was not bollocks. There were that many people involved and they did plant that many trees.

                  No, it was complete bollocks.

                  There were that many people involved in CCC.

                  There weren’t that many of them planting trees. There weren’t even that many involved with planting trees.

                  If there had actually been three million people planting trees it wouldn’t have taken them 10 years. It would have taken them a day.

              • Herodotus …
                7 May 2018 at 3:25 pm

                Just a quick use of google
                https://www.chegg.com/homework-help/questions-and-answers/average-density-trees-acre-forest-53-trees-peracre–assuming-number-trees-per-
                Don’t know of how reliable the source is BUT 1 billion trees by 53, so for ease of my maths ability say 50 trees/acre
                so 1 Billion (US of 1,000,000,000 not the UK of 1,000,000,000,000) = 20,000,000 acres is need or 8.09m hectares, or 80,900km2 The area of land that NZ covers is 268,000km2 so 30% of the country. (I think my cals are correct, BUT could be out)

                • McFlock …
                  7 May 2018 at 4:35 pm

                  It’s a hypothetical question on a school homework site. You might as well suppose that the average speed of trains from pittsburgh is 30mph.

                  I linked to last year’s forestry projections from MPI in this comment here (although I boo-bood the pdf link pasting). Try a thousand trees per hectare, not 120. And it’s bringing total production to a billion trees when we’re on 50mil/yr anyway.

                  But I did tumble the land area math, over ten years a total of 500million trees at 1000/hectare = 500,000 hectares. Assuming none of that is replanting, that’s a little under 2% rather than 30% of NZ’s land area, and our current production forest land area is 1.7million hectares (according to the NEFD report on that MPI link).

        • mac1 6.4.1.2
          7 May 2018 at 3:26 pm

          This is what Herodotus wrote. “During the depression in the USA the CCC planted over 3 billion trees, that involved 3 million people over 10 years !!!”

          That states baldly and plainly that the planting involved 3 million people.

          Of course, you then read the article, and it says this. “the CCC planted more than three billion trees and constructed trails and shelters in more than 800 parks nationwide during its nine years of existence.”

          alwyn, there is a difference between what Herodotus paraphrased and what the cited article said.

          What Herodotus wrote was an inaccurate and misleading reporting of that article. And indefensible.

          That comment btw used “love of the language and a sense of fair play.”

          • alwyn 6.4.1.2.1
            7 May 2018 at 6:15 pm

            What he said was, in fact, true.
            Did you perchance accept some of the efforts at misleading people that the present Government get up to?
            When they promised us $700/year in a heating allowance isn’t that just a tad crooked when they meant about $400 this year?
            When they said $10 per visit reduction in GP visits from July 1 did they really get free rein to change it to “But not this year”.
            And on and on and on.
            Did you complain that people had interpreted it in a different way and they should do what everyone thought they meant?
            Thought not. If you had you might have been entitled to your complaint on the grounds that you were being consistent. If you didn’t then you political bias is showing.

            • mac1 6.4.1.2.1.1
              7 May 2018 at 8:11 pm

              What he said was not true. Three million people were involved in a whole heap of work more than planting 3 billion trees for the CCC.

              To then claim that just as the planting of three billion trees would require three million workers, so the NZ government target of i billion trees would require presumably one million workers is just plain wrong.

              Herodotus said, “to give you some idea of the scale of this” referring to the planting of a billion trees, he cited an article and then said, ” “During the depression in the USA the CCC planted over 3 billion trees, that involved 3 million people over 10 years !!!”

              That is totally inaccurate as an example of scale.

              Draco T has worked the figures to show this.

              Alwyn, you’re just wasting my time.

  7. The Chairman 7
    7 May 2018 at 9:19 am

    Land value capture (which allows councils to capture the estimated paper gain increase in the value new infrastructure adds to private property) may be coming to your neighbourhood.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/103631686/wellingtons-mayors-want-a-piece-of-new-transport-funding–and-are-open-to-using-new-taxes-to-get-it

    The problems I have with this is it hits low income households the hardest, thus may result in forcing people to sell up and move or become indebted.

    Moreover, it will add to the cost of home ownership and potentially add inflationary pressure to rents.

    Therefore, if the Government is going to allow this, low income households should be protected by being made exempt.

    Additionally, it may backfire as the new tax may deter buyers from purchasing in locations that are targeted, opting to buy in the next street over, resulting in homes just outside of the targeted area increasing in value instead.

    • Ad 7.1
      7 May 2018 at 11:14 am

      Chairman this is definitely a debate to track towards the latter part of this year.

      It is going to come to a head with light rail in Auckland, which means it will probably open up the entire Unitary Plan debate. It is certainly building inside government.

      Labour has lost elections before just on tax issues – I hope they have the skills for playing ‘capital gain harvest’ taxes.

    • Gabby 7.2
      7 May 2018 at 11:27 am

      I don’t think councils see driving poor people out of home ownership as a problem chairy.

  8. mac1 8
    7 May 2018 at 9:42 am

    What gives with Simon Bridges and his new naming of the Labour leadership?

    He’s getting a hammering on Facebook for these comments, btw.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/05/simon-bridges-says-labour-guys-and-girls-won-t-get-tough-on-gangs.html

    He is quoted. “”You can believe Stuart believes this stuff, but the guys and girls above him are going to rumble him. There’s no chance they’re going to have a harder approach to the gangs.”

    Not only is there that putdown by age and sex, but the reference to ‘rumble’ connects to a second meaning of the word ‘to have a gang fight’ as well as the primary sense he is using of ‘discover his true intent’.

    Maybe Bridges is being clever and using this choice of language relating the issue to gangs? Maybe this language is also carefully meant to associate Labour with being gang associated? The term ‘guys’ is often used as a term for gangsters. Maybe the issue of gangs just triggers word associations.

    Certainly, the ‘guy and girls’ is a putdown, and unworthy of the Leader of the Opposition to use.

    Why did he not say “the men and women above him” or ‘the people above him” or ‘the leadership”or ” senior Cabinet members’ or ‘the cabinet executive’ or even ‘the party bosses’?

    • cleangreen 8.1
      7 May 2018 at 9:53 am

      100% mac 1

      Yes Simon Bridges is a slippery character alright.

      But he will be rolled sooner than later as he is weak and in-decisive.

      The ghost of SS Joyce will overtake and consume him as the bloodletting within the diminishing National Party emerges.

    • Gosman 8.2
      7 May 2018 at 10:16 am

      Why is it unworthy of the Leader of the Opposition to use? Who determines this – You?

      • mac1 8.2.1
        7 May 2018 at 11:41 am

        All of us, Gosman, all of us with a shred of decency and a love of the language and a sense of fair play and respect for office.

        • Gosman 8.2.1.1
          7 May 2018 at 11:43 am

          I would suggest not. I see nooone from the right or centre of politics who has an issue with what he is saying.

          • Stuart Munro 8.2.1.1.1
            7 May 2018 at 12:02 pm

            That Bridges boy just ain’t sensitive to nuance – and neither are you, so only it slags the Left. But that’s the Right for you – not even intellectual pygmies, much less intellectual giants.

            • Gosman 8.2.1.1.1.1
              7 May 2018 at 12:18 pm

              Whatever. At the end of the day the only people concerned over his use of language are lefties like you.

              • Stuart Munro …
                7 May 2018 at 1:54 pm

                Yup – because my little cabbage you’re an uncritical admirer of all things Right – however inane.

                Gone are the days when rightwing trolls aspired to have a shred of intellectual credibility or economic competence – Key and English exhausted that pretention.

                Bridges just calls people names. And that’s good enough for you – your expectations are so debased.

                • Gosman …
                  7 May 2018 at 2:00 pm

                  I’ve criticised numerous elements of the last National led government so you cannot be meaning myself.

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    7 May 2018 at 3:24 pm

                    I don’t recall that at all.

                    • Gosman …
                      7 May 2018 at 4:50 pm

                      What don’t you recall exactly? My criticising the last National led government? I believe I have mentioned my disappointment in them on topics such as tax and regulatory reform on numerous occasions. Their refusal to do anything radical held back the country hugely.

                    • Stuart Munro …
                      7 May 2018 at 7:32 pm

                      It probably astonishes you to know Gosman, that the Left does not await your every utterance with bated breath. And, as you say, you focus on tax and regulatory reform because you have no interest in people or people’s issues.

                      Take a large scale political failing like Key’s dishonesty or Carter’s treacherous subversion of ministerial questions however, and you are silent as the grave – if not actually defending the wrongdoers.

                      It is ethically bereft MF like you that are holding the country back.

                  • OnceWasTim …
                    7 May 2018 at 4:19 pm

                    So has/does Mathew the Hoot. He’s even been known to criticise JK (probably more in the interests of being fair and balanced)

              • tom …
                7 May 2018 at 2:52 pm

                ‘Whatever. At the end of the day the only people concerned over his use of language are lefties like you.’

                So are you saying it was not the Right who was up in arms when Julie Anne Genter made mention of certain Old White Men

                You silly wee Trolling Hypocrite

                • Gosman …
                  7 May 2018 at 3:15 pm

                  What has that got to do with what Bridges said?

                  • tom …
                    7 May 2018 at 4:56 pm

                    if you cannot see the equivalence then you really are as dim witted as i presumed from your history of trolling

        • alwyn 8.2.1.2
          7 May 2018 at 12:20 pm

          Well that leaves you out of it.
          Four things listed and you fail all of them.

          • mac1 8.2.1.2.1
            7 May 2018 at 2:47 pm

            You know me that well, eh? Sorry, I’m not supposed to have a sense of humour, either.

            • alwyn 8.2.1.2.1.1
              7 May 2018 at 6:32 pm

              No, no.
              If you had claimed a sense of humour as well as the other things I wouldn’t have used the phrase I did.
              I would have said, instead “Five things listed and you fail four of them”.
              There, does that make you feel better?

    • Gabby 8.3
      7 May 2018 at 11:31 am

      Slick Britches is disappointed that the work Nastynil did on eradicating gangs (and in no way profiting from the P explosion) is going to be reversed.

    • Barfly 8.4
      7 May 2018 at 11:37 am

      Crosby Textor focus groups at work.

  9. mac1 9
    7 May 2018 at 10:07 am

    A moral issue for our times.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2018/05/30-000-empty-homes-in-auckland-is-it-time-to-tax-the-owners.html

    John Minto points out the anti-social nature of land-banking and ghost houses in this article. In my region, ten per cent of dwellings are unoccupied by permanent residents.

    Instead we have some 600 Air B&Bs and Rent a Baches.

    I hope the government can first do smiting (should have read ‘something’ but I like my spell checker’s (cocker’s) version) about first the issue of empty housing whilst people are homeless, and second that the tax fraudsters amongst the renters are brought to account financially and legally.

    • Gosman 9.1
      7 May 2018 at 10:11 am

      How will you check whether a property is being deliberately left unoccupied?

      • mac1 9.1.1
        7 May 2018 at 10:16 am

        Is it worthwhile to find a solution to this problem?

        • Gosman 9.1.1.1
          7 May 2018 at 10:18 am

          Not if the compliance cost involved in monitoring this are excessive. It could also involve a massive increase in the coercive power of the State if it involves inspectors going around to private property to see what is happening.

          • The Chairman 9.1.1.1.1
            7 May 2018 at 10:27 am

            Compliance costs could be lumped onto those that are targeted, strengthening the deterrent.

             

            • Gosman 9.1.1.1.1.1
              7 May 2018 at 10:51 am

              How would they be lumped on to those being targeted?

              • The Chairman …
                7 May 2018 at 11:11 am

                Via the new tax.

              • mac1 …
                7 May 2018 at 11:12 am

                Straight off the top of my head, no research, how about a ‘vacancy fee’ for absentee home owners which could be incorporated into rates; or better still, a tax on the capital gains earned on ghost housing when sold over and above the usual taxation.

                After all, New Zealand had a problem at the turn of the 19th Century under the Liberal government when land was all locked up in the hands of land owners.

                My family benefited from John Mckenzie’s land tax when land was freed up for balloting. Taxation was the method of righting that particular problem.

                Taxation was the method of righting the issue of poverty amongst our people and the welfare state and earlier the Liberal’s Old Age Pension which addressed the issue of income for older citizens.

                Fair taxation, justly applied and large social, with financial and legal sanctions for the betrayers of the social contract. who at the moment remove from social expenditure use anywhere from $1.5 to $7 billion annually.

                • Gosman …
                  7 May 2018 at 11:45 am

                  As much as I would love to see the left try and implement such a dumb tax it isn’t likely to be implemented any time soon for the main reason the Labour party wants to remain electable

                  • mac1 …
                    7 May 2018 at 11:54 am

                    So, what would you do, Gosman, to ensure that all our citizens are housed healthily and safely?

                    Such a ‘dumb’ tax provided enough land for four families within my grandparent’s generation to survive well enough. Those families then produced great rugby players, priests, district councillors, war heroes, teachers, nurses, etc etc.

                    Who complained? “Ready Money” Robinson might have. The owner of the Kinloch estate on the Banks Peninsula might have.

                    But the hundreds of families who benefited did not complain.

                    • Gosman …
                      7 May 2018 at 12:01 pm

                      The Liberal Party policy was easy to implement in contrast to what is being suggested here. You can’t easily hide how big your land is but you can hide the fact it is not being used for something.

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    7 May 2018 at 12:05 pm

                    It’s no more difficult than operating Winz’s rules on relationships. In fact staff no longer needed to be punitive to the poor could readily transfer to a role monitoring sociopathic speculators.

                    • Gosman …
                      7 May 2018 at 12:19 pm

                      Don’t you agree the WINZ rules around relationship status are unworkable?

                    • Stuart Munro …
                      7 May 2018 at 3:26 pm

                      What they are is morally repugnant. They’d be workable were Winz not too ashamed to state them plainly and publicly.

          • mac1 9.1.1.1.2
            7 May 2018 at 10:32 am

            We could use the 1800 new police that Stuart Nash is proposing. After they’ve cleaned up the “P” problem, they can move onto the “H” problem. 🙂

            Seriously, though, when society accepts the depth of the problem and the social ills concomitant with homelessness and sub-standard housing, part of which is “P”, then it can find solutions equally in depth that most of us can accept and justify.

          • Jeremy 9.1.1.1.3
            7 May 2018 at 8:02 pm

            No need for “a massive increase in the coercive power of the State”.
            Those Search And Surveillance powers enable this already.
            How about a camera mounted on every telephone pole/street light to monitor the use of housing?

      • David Mac 9.1.2
        7 May 2018 at 11:15 am

        Smart meter data would paint an accurate picture re: occupancy. Spurts of consumption over weekends and long weekends would indicate air bnb or holiday house usage. Flat lining water/power consumption = empty house. Doesn’t need inspectors, just a robotic drill into the data.

        • Gosman 9.1.2.1
          8 May 2018 at 6:11 am

          What happens if I go off grid?

          • David Mac 9.1.2.1.1
            8 May 2018 at 8:24 am

            I think it’s unlikely you’d be going to that expense just to lock the house up and leave it empty.

            Maybe the house is 50 kms from nowhere. It’s not needed as a family rental.

      • Warren Doney 9.1.3
        7 May 2018 at 11:20 am

        That’s easy. Check water and electricity use. It is already being done.

        • Pingao 9.1.3.1
          7 May 2018 at 6:34 pm

          While I agree that it would be good to discourage leaving houses empty for long periods of time, I can’t see a workable solution as there so many variables for why people may leave a house empty – e.g. working away from home, family commitments, changes in household, house empty for renovations, repair after major damage or sale.

          Water meter usage is not monitored across New Zealand and how would the goverment access that information for the places that do? Do we want government to have access to that information (water and power) about individual households?

          There were many houses empty for months and years after the earthquakes in Christchurch and in the east of Christchurch there still are – some at least are due to people not being in a position to repair and or sell. Even Housing New Zealand houses have been empty for monthes and monthes even in 2018.

          My point is how can government differentiate between those that are landbanking and those whose circumstances mean that their house is empty (or is occupied but doesn’t use much power).

      • OnceWasTim 9.1.4
        7 May 2018 at 5:16 pm

        Actually Gos, there are a few ways. You know how your ilk were in favour of water meters and privatising power companies and telcos? There’s also this thing called ‘big data’ you’d be an advocate for.
        At the moment though, the only problem is the purpose for which it is used, and you do realise those nanny state authorities actually have supremacy (unless of course some jumped up little army general decides otherwise and is able to persuade his underlings to agree)
        Whilst any profiling is in its infancy, it does allow ‘officials’, or those ‘in authority’ to direct their attention to a particular property (going forward).
        It’s not too dissimilar to all that demographic profiling thingy that MBIE had heavily invested in – until they were told to pull their heads in. Even though they haven’t YET come to grips with it all ….
        Unless someone wants to leave the garden hose on as a drip, and perhaps run a modest hooch operation in the attic, if you provided me with the data, I’d be happy to direct those ‘officials’ in the right direction ….. for a modest fee of course (plus GST). I won’t even charge for any intermediary consultancy – such as finder’s fees or those ‘independent’ people verifying my impartiality (going forward).
        I’m bloody sure there are others that’ll do likewise.
        Clip go the shears boys clip clip clip

    • cleangreen 9.2
      7 May 2018 at 10:49 am

      Yes mac 1.

      Bloody good points john makes that we should all seriously consider carefully now as the ‘land/house banking system is only used by banks and very rich investors trying to push prices up and will distort the whole economy again like 2007 what Enron did.

      Wake up kiwis, we are being rorted here.

      Ban these ‘leeches’ as house/land bankers and send them packing.

  10. The Chairman 10
    7 May 2018 at 11:07 am

    If the Government is serious about their green credentials, they would equip (and allow) all state houses to have solar panels.

    Good to see the Greens speaking up on this.

    Must see: (from 19.55 into the clip)  
    https://www.threenow.co.nz/shows/the-hui/season-3%3A-sunday-6-may-2018/125685/M21250-300

    • The Chairman 10.1
      7 May 2018 at 11:46 am

      An initiative to provide free solar power setup for the poor is declined by Housing NZ? WTF?

      See clip in the link above.

    • gsays 10.2
      7 May 2018 at 1:08 pm

      I agree chairman, but why stop at state housing.
      Why not make a 3-5 kw array grid tied, compulsory on every new dwelling or building?
      Water catchment/tanks too while we are at it.

  11. Sacha 11
    7 May 2018 at 11:28 am

    ‘World’ label boss who trumpeted locally-sourced fashion caught out reselling overseas-made goods with ‘Made in NZ’ tags: https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/07-05-2018/t-shirts-from-bangladesh-sequin-patches-from-china-all-sold-by-world-as-made-in-nz/

      • David Mac 11.1.1
        7 May 2018 at 12:41 pm

        Hahahaha, what a hoot.

        Spinoff: “Considering your WORLD clothing tags say “Fabriqué en Nouvelle Zelande”, would customers reasonably assume these t-shirts and more have been made in New Zealand?”

        Dame Denise: “As already stated, the WORLD clothing tags that say Made in NZ are Made in NZ, so there is nothing misleading about this. As explained, the t-shirts do not state this”.

        Oh dear, that’s a frightfully wobbly defense. The garment swing tags that state ‘Made in NZ’ were die-cut and printed in NZ so they’re not deceptive…..what a load of bollix. I thought she was smarter than trying to float such a leaky boat.

        • Mikes 11.1.1.1
          8 May 2018 at 11:41 am

          Anyway, why are the tags written in French rather than in either of our 2 official written languages?

      • Rosemary McDonald 11.1.2
        7 May 2018 at 12:47 pm

        So wish I had read that before I grumpily commented here….https://thestandard.org.nz/a-great-business-opportunity/#comment-1481867

        I have no time for these people….

        Spinoff asked…
        “Considering your WORLD clothing tags say “Fabriqué en Nouvelle Zelande”, would customers reasonably assume these t-shirts and more have been made in New Zealand?”

        Dame Whatsherface replies…

        “As already stated, the WORLD clothing tags that say Made in NZ are Made in NZ, so there is nothing misleading about this. As explained, the t-shirts do not state this.”

        • gsays 11.1.2.1
          7 May 2018 at 1:13 pm

          Is it to late to get dame whatserface on dancing with the stars?
          Those are a coupla handy pirouettes she is pulling off on that pin.

          • alwyn 11.1.2.1.1
            7 May 2018 at 2:20 pm

            How embarrassing though.
            Particularly as it was this Government that gave her the award entitling her to call herself “Dame”
            I hope that Ardern hasn’t been wearing any of these clothes in her numerous woman’s magazine photo ops?
            Please tell us she wasn’t wearing anything from this lot in the Vogue article.

            • Anne 11.1.2.1.1.1
              7 May 2018 at 3:39 pm

              alwyn I think you might be wrong. My understanding is the Honours awards are determined around six months in advance of their publication date. Since she received a dame-hood in the 2018 New Year, that means it was the previous National led government who determined her award.

              • alwyn …
                7 May 2018 at 6:22 pm

                I think you would be right if you said they started the process at that time. That would be immediately after the last lot were announced. In his case of course the last Government would have gone into caretaker mode in about mid-August and stayed there until the coalition took over. The new Government had about two and a half months to change things. I’m afraid they have to carry the, not very massive, can.
                After all a whole bunch of them flew off on a jolly to the Chatham Islands to claim credit for something they had opposed in Opposition.
                You take it one way you have to wear it the other.

                • Anne …
                  7 May 2018 at 6:44 pm

                  I’m afraid they have to carry the, not very massive, can.

                  I get the feeling this case (can’t be bothered looking up her fancy name)
                  is a storm in a tea cup so who cares who gave her the gong anyway. 😐

                  • alwyn …
                    7 May 2018 at 6:51 pm

                    Yes, given that there is no evidence of Ardern patronising the business. That would have been a little embarrassing but the presentation of a gong doesn’t matter.

                • Gabby …
                  7 May 2018 at 7:14 pm

                  A jolly in the Chathams wynny? Livin the dream.

                  • alwyn …
                    7 May 2018 at 8:14 pm

                    They took lots and lots of their own, tax-payer funded, booze.
                    Then they dined on crayfish, lots and lots of crayfish.
                    I could easily be tempted to describe that as a jolly.
                    Shane may have missed out on his pornographic videos but the others were probably quite happy.

            • gsays 11.1.2.1.1.2
              7 May 2018 at 5:19 pm

              Not as embarrassing as the gong handed out to the last prime minister for services to nest feathering.

              • Anne …
                7 May 2018 at 6:58 pm

                Actually gsays… I didn’t like john Key. I didn’t like his MO and I didn’t like is often sneaky ways. But he was PM for eight years and not everything he did was bad. So he was deserving of a gong. And bear in mind not many Kiwis care about who has gongs and who doesn’t anyway.

                • gsays …
                  7 May 2018 at 8:07 pm

                  Are you serious!
                  PM for 8 years and he deserves a gong!

                  I would rather acknowledge and celebrate the people who foster children or the volunteers who enrich and strengthen communities.

                  • Anne …
                    7 May 2018 at 8:53 pm

                    Put it another way. All prime ministers are offered a knighthood after they cease to be PM. Most but not all accept them. So, it was inevitable John Key would be offered a knighthood and equally inevitable he would be one of those who accept it. It was in that sense I used the term “deserving”.

        • David Mac 11.1.2.2
          7 May 2018 at 1:18 pm

          Yep, as is usually the case, Dame Denise would of been much better off telling the truth . Said something like: “Thanks for drawing this to our attention Spinoff and I think you’re right, the wording could be taken the wrong way. It should read ‘Designed in NZ’ and that’s what they will say in the future.”

          Spinoff would have their scalp, Dame Denise would prove she does the right thing when she can and the story would die.

        • McFlock 11.1.2.3
          7 May 2018 at 1:26 pm

          lol

          buy a World tag that was made in NZ, get a free tshirt from Bangladesh.

          I wonder if comcom will buy that?

          • David Mac 11.1.2.3.1
            7 May 2018 at 1:34 pm

            Hahahaha yeah, it’s a situation made for satire.

            “You might very well now feel that $99 is an outrageous price to pay for a locally produced swing tag Mr McFlock but you entered into the transaction of your own free will.”

            • Rosemary McDonald 11.1.2.3.1.1
              7 May 2018 at 1:42 pm

              ““You might very well now feel that $99 is an outrageous price to pay for a locally produced swing tag Mr McFlock but you entered into the transaction of your own free will.””

              Someone, please, check that them there tags are actually fabriqué en Nouvelle Zelande….

              This is a wound that deserves extra salt.

              • David Mac …
                7 May 2018 at 1:50 pm

                When I put ‘Designed in New Zealand’ into Google translate, the French is: Conçu en Nouvelle-Zélande. I think most of Dame Denise’s local customers would read that and still surmise that it says ‘Made in New Zealand’….I think I would…

        • Gabby 11.1.2.4
          7 May 2018 at 5:52 pm

          The new tags will add Ceci n’est pas une tshirt.

      • OnceWasTim 11.1.3
        7 May 2018 at 4:26 pm

        I reckon we should leave it to Jim Mora and ‘The Panel’ to sort out.

        • Rosemary McDonald 11.1.3.1
          7 May 2018 at 4:51 pm

          Hah! The Dame ain’t happy…

          “Dame Denise L’Estrange-Corbet has slammed a report by the Spinoff, calling it “trash” and “gutter journalism”.
          In an interview with Newstalk ZB, she said she found the report disgusting and that it has damaged her brand.
          “I am furious,” she told Newstalk ZB.
          “I will not be torn down by some two-bit writer who thinks she can air her opinions that are not truthful.””

          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12046775

          or, if that link doesn’t work anymore…

          https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:M1cuSw7QzuMJ:https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm%3Fc_id%3D3%26objectid%3D12046775

          • AB 11.1.3.1.1
            7 May 2018 at 11:00 pm

            “I will not be torn down”
            Ah – this is the problem. Clearly believes she is in a place from which she can be torn down. Hubris is a horrible thing.

        • OnceWasTim 11.1.3.2
          7 May 2018 at 5:30 pm

          Btw, did anyone count the number of “but”s and “I don’t know”s DL’E-C said during her JC interview on Checkpoint?
          And Christ! at the end of that interview, she put it all back on the consumer for being ‘stupid’ …… as in “I thought [the consumer] was smarter”.
          Gorgeous darling! Almost gorgeous enough to come back for a fling on “The Panel”
          And I’m sincerely hoping she’s not related to a former registrar because if he’s not tucked up somewhere with a minimum-waged Filipino wiping his arse, he’s sure as shit busy rolling in discomfort 3 feet below

  12. Rosemary McDonald 12
    7 May 2018 at 12:23 pm

    While doing some follow up googling on empty house taxes, homelessness and the influence of developers I stumbled across this….

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/apr/07/oulton-leeds-prefab-airey-houses-demolition-eviction

    Very interesting slice of history, and extremely relevant to today’s discussion.

    Politics…

    “”Named after Sir Edwin Airey, a construction magnate, around 200 of the houses were built on the estate in the late 50s as homes for miners, and few thought they would see in the millennium.

    Made from prefabricated concrete and scrap metal salvaged from military vehicles, they were designed to meet the housing needs of the growing numbers of workers living outside cities.

    Barry and Mavis Abbey, both in their early 70s, have lived on the estate since 1970, when the homes were owned by the National Coal Board.

    At one stage the Abbeys had been led to believe they would be able to buy their home under the Thatcher government’s right-to-buy scheme. But this option was denied them for reasons that remain opaque. Ex-miners like Barry believe it was in revenge for them going on strike in the mid-1980s.

    The estate was sold off by the NCB in 1986, after which the homes passed through a series of owners until they ended up in the hands of the Pemberstone Group, a private investment firm that boasts a diverse portfolio of interests including an Italian tour operator, an indoor ski slope and the Ilford camera-film brand.

    Pemberstone’s “scheme” involves replacing the existing 70 Airey houses with 71 new properties, only 11 of which will be reserved for “affordable accommodation”, a number that it says is in line with Leeds city council’s Strategic Homes plan.

    Locals have heard that the new homes will be priced at around £300,000 – 10 times what a three-bedroom Airey house on another estate fetched recently. Surrounded by attractive green spaces, close to motorways and 20 minutes from the city centre, they should sell easily.”

  13. Puckish Rogue 13
    7 May 2018 at 12:40 pm

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/103591593/jeanette-fitzsimons-says-greens-could-reject-waka-jumping-bill–and-it-wont-bring-down-the-government

    Justice Minister Andrew Little said of the submissions he had read he was surprised by how many were flawed.

    “I haven’t seen any convincing arguments to change much.”

    Some of those who submitted are here if anyones interested:

    https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/a-submission-on-the-electoral-integrity-amendment-act

  14. OnceWasTim 14
    7 May 2018 at 12:40 pm

    And in the important issues of the day:
    does anybody else happen to listen to RNZ’s business news (going forward)?
    I find it bloody hard whenever I have to listen to Nona Pelletier reporting.
    I know I’m living ‘on the back of’ the age of the curmudgeon, but it’s not just that. Just as I need to listen to Soimun 10 Bridges twice before I’m able to decipher his wuzdim words, or avail moisef of a tranny, Nona sounds like she’s singing the descant.
    Can she not be promoted to an off-ear pizzishun?
    OR maybe I should just fuck off somewhere else where basic things like communicating with other human beings are no longer such an earfit.
    Ekshully, I’ll take it all back and count myself lucky I’m not Donny the Don Brash who has to deal with listening to Mary

    • Pingao 14.1
      7 May 2018 at 6:48 pm

      I have no issue with Nona’s voice … maybe that’s because I watch her on TV rather than just listen – on RNZ on channel 50. Sometimes I find it hard to understand on the phone or radio but if I can see them it’s easier for some reason. Similarly if I know where they are from I find it easier to tune into their accent.

  15. Rosemary McDonald 15
    7 May 2018 at 2:02 pm

    Okay. Now I’m not creating a rumour here or anything, but seems just a tad strange that just a few days after this…

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/103586961/uae-foreign-minister-meets-with-jacinda-ardern-in-wellington

    “Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed Al Nahyan has been meeting with New Zealand ministers and members of the opposition over the past couple of days in Wellington.

    Before the Sheikh arrived at Ardern’s 9th floor office for the meeting he sent up a somewhat mysterious gift, in a large box, on a gurney. It was wheeled into Ardern’s office where she was later expected to open it.”

    ….there’s this,

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/356797/dubai-princess-forcibly-returned-after-attempt-to-flee-reports

    “Human Rights Watch (HRW) has called on United Arab Emirates authorities to disclose the whereabouts and condition of a daughter of Dubai’s ruler, following reports she was forcibly returned after fleeing the Gulf Arab state”

  16. Fireblade 16
    7 May 2018 at 4:21 pm

    Today I helped a family member who had to take a Medical Certificate to the Hamilton central WINZ office.

    In the past we’ve waited in the cue inside the building. Today we had to wait in a cue of 12 people standing outside on the footpath. One of the three security gaurds said he had been told to only let one person through the door when someone else left. The footpath cue included a very frail elderly lady and a person with one leg using crutches. It took around 40 minuites waiting on the footpath just to get into the building.

    The five parking spaces directly outside were blocked with orange cones. I asked why and was told that only WINZ staff could park there.

    The fact that any government department can treat people like this is truly shocking and humilating.

    • Ed 16.1
      7 May 2018 at 4:22 pm

      Barbarism.

    • Ed 16.2
      7 May 2018 at 5:05 pm

      It will be interesting to see if our resident right wing trolls have anything to say on this matter.
      I doubt it.

    • Rosemary McDonald 16.3
      7 May 2018 at 6:43 pm

      Fireblade….which Hamilton WINZ office exactly?

      Street address?

      Parking places coned off when elderly /disabled clients might need close parking?

      Three security guards? How many with clipboards?

      So…this is how they respond to Ardern’s instructions to be kind?

      Making clients wait in that cold southerly that blew up in Hamilton today?

      Maybe they should be reminded what the Boss’s instructions were?

      • Fireblade 16.3.1
        8 May 2018 at 6:23 am

        Rosemary. This WINZ office is 468 Anglesea St, Hamilton.

        • Rosemary McDonald 16.3.1.1
          8 May 2018 at 8:13 am

          Thank you Fireblade. I am not familiar with that particular location as being a WINZ office-sorry-“Service Centre”. The only one I could think of around here with 5 parking places outside the building was Dinsdale.

          Have you or your family member complained about this? Who you’d complain to I’d be guessing. Complain to a local Nat MP? They’d really get off on blaming this on the current incumbents. Complain to Labour/Green/NZF? Who?

          Perhaps someone in the local media? Treating people like this is totally unacceptable.

          Actually…I might wander down there with a camera, take a few pictures, post them somewhere….

    • patricia bremner 16.4
      8 May 2018 at 3:04 pm

      You should have taken a photo and put it on Facebook. When are they going to try kindness and be “flexible?

      • OnceWasTim 16.4.1
        8 May 2018 at 3:40 pm

        Obviously the office didn’t get the “show a little kindness” memo.
        It’s quite interesting really – the degree to which some in the public service are pushing back against their political elected masters – probably on the basis that they’re ‘independent’ and immune from matters that are of an ‘operational’ nature.
        (not just MSD/WINZ).
        It’s going to be the true test of this coalition government – i.e. just how far politicians are prepared to accept obvious obfuscation, lies, spin and bullshit from their ‘officials’ before they react.
        As things stand, so many hints have been given re the expectations of the public service and the policies on which they (the government) were elected.
        Just as happened in the 80s, public service reform is long overdue, and they’re doing themselves no favours.
        We’ll see over the next few months whether the new government is up to the challenge.

  17. DB Brown 17
    7 May 2018 at 4:37 pm

    Ha WINZ. Where the general public are seen as fraudulent self-entitled scum.

    Bonus if you make your client cry.

    Anyways…

    I’m not one to start rumors but must just ask: Has anyone ever seen David Seymour and Alfred E Neuman in the same room together?

    • Gosman 17.1
      7 May 2018 at 4:53 pm

      Ummm… David Seymour doesn’t look anything like the character of Alfred E Neuman. It would be like asking has anyone ever seen Chewbacca and David Seymour in the same room together.

    • Gosman 17.2
      7 May 2018 at 4:55 pm

      There IS a superficial resemblance to the actor Chris Barrie who played/plays Arnold Rimmer from Red Dwarf and Gordon Brittas from The Brittas Empire. But so what?

      • McFlock 17.2.1
        7 May 2018 at 5:03 pm

        There’s a pretty bloody good resemblance when Barrie is actually in character.

        The “so what” is that it might partially explain why he’s spending more time on Dancing with the Lols rather than being a caucus leader.

        Whether he is electoral cyanide because he does things like that, or whether he has the time to do things like that because he’s electoral cyanide, is a point of passing interest.

  18. DB Brown 18
    7 May 2018 at 5:15 pm

    Do not try having a laugh around Gosman.

    Has anyone ever seen Judith Collins and Pink Floyd The Walls Mother in the same room together?

  19. Morrissey 19
    7 May 2018 at 5:26 pm

    Concerning the Shameful Dame Denise L’Estrange-Corbet:
    A Message from the Knights and Dames of the British Empire
    May 7, 2018

    It comes down to education. Don’t smoke it, don’t drink it, don’t buy Lotto tickets. I don’t believe there IS a shortage of jobs in New Zealand….

    —Denise L’Estrange-Corbet, Sept. 5, 2014

    We would like to point out that the rogue Denise L’Estrange-Corbet is an aberration, an abomination, an irritant, a boor, an exploiter, a liar, a racist, and a cad. An asshole, if one were to employ the vernacular. The rest of New Zealand’s, and indeed the Empire’s, knights and dames, however, are men and women of the highest character.

    So let’s condemn Denise L’Estrange-Corbet by all means, but let us also praise good men and true (and good women and true), like the following exemplars of moral courage and intellectual excellence…..

    Sir Paul Holmes
    Sir Robert Jones
    Sir John Howard
    Sir William Gallagher
    Sir Thomas Eichelbaum
    Sir James Savile
    Dame Margaret Thatcher
    Sir Peter Leitch
    Sir Jeremiah Mateparae
    Sir John Key
    Sir Clive Woodward

    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-06092014/#comment-881331

    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-10072014/#comment-846842

    • OnceWasTim 19.1
      8 May 2018 at 3:56 pm

      Easier to just add her to your list Morrisey.
      She’d have been better off to have just fessed up and said she had no idea, and that she is disappointed and will make changes.
      And IF, as she claims, the problem is a mere 1% of her business enterprise, and IF she has the concerns she claims she has, then I’d have expected her to forgo that 1%.

      But then as I said yesterday, we should let Jim Mora’s “The Panel” resolve it all. She might even end up being the new Brian Edwards ‘on the back of’ a Gallery interview and resolution of an industrial dispute.

      We could even call in Julie Christie to make a reality TV show of proceedings and she could clip the ticket to compensate for the loss of that 1%.

      • OnceWasTim 19.1.1
        8 May 2018 at 4:55 pm

        There ya go see @ Morrisey. Jim and his ‘The Panel’ have dealt with the issue and it’s now resolved.
        End of story!
        How could we have been so foolish as to have made such a mountain out of a molehill.
        And btw ….. there’s no mole a bit of mascara can’t cover – even if it’s to highlight it as a fashion asset (going forward)

  20. Morrissey 20
    7 May 2018 at 5:46 pm

    W​hat sets apart Gaza from Gandhi and Martin Luther King is not that children ​participate in the Gaza marches…

    …. but that unlike the British in India, and the white racists in the American South, only Israel targets and kills innocent children in demonstrations.

    http://normanfinkelstein.com/2018/05/06/w%E2%80%8Bhat-sets-apart-gaza-from-gandhi-and-martin-luther-king-is-not-that-children-%E2%80%8Bparticipate-in-the-gaza-marches-but-that-unlike-the-british-in-india-and-the-white-racists-in-the-ameri/

    • The Fairy Godmother 20.1
      7 May 2018 at 9:20 pm

      I believe the Nazi’s killed children with impunity so Israel isn’t the only one here to be fair.

      • Barfly 20.1.1
        7 May 2018 at 9:46 pm

        The Armenian genocide and Pol Pot’s genocide weren’t child friendly I believe – The Zionist murderers are hardly in stellar company though are they?

        • Daveosaurus 20.1.1.1
          7 May 2018 at 10:35 pm

          Add to that the famines England caused in Ireland (1840s) and in Bengal (1940s) – and that Russia caused in Ukraine (1930s) – still not good company for Bibi the Butcher to find himself in.

          • Morrissey 20.1.1.1.1
            8 May 2018 at 7:24 am

            It’s not only Bibi. It’s the entire Israeli political class that’s involved in this, going right back to Ben Gurion.

    • Observer Tokoroa 20.2
      8 May 2018 at 12:17 am

      You still slapping Jacinda around eh! You got other women to bash up too ?

      I get the feeling you are full of something sick. Something we don’t need in Aoteoroa.

      • Daveosaurus 20.2.1
        8 May 2018 at 7:39 am

        … This comment does not appear to have any connection to the comment it is replying to…

  21. eco maori 21
    8 May 2018 at 6:55 pm

    Good evening Newshub adventure tourism is a great way to bring vip tourist to Aotearoa.
    I had a good escort this morning on the way to Auckland Im working and I get to see my mokos and daughter at the same time the youngest is 4 months old she really chubby.
    Football NZ is going to pay the Football Ferns I’m a bit late tonight Ka kite ano P.S sorry about the heat they are just a bunch of intimidating bullies just ignore them there intimidation does not work on ECO MAORI

  22. eco maori 22
    9 May 2018 at 6:36 am

    Good morning Newshub it shows that the last government did not want to help our Pacific Islands slashing the aid we gave the. If we give aid for renewable energy this will solve two problems lower there carbon footprint and save them money. Our other Pacific Islands cousins ad a lot of good thing to OUR country.
    The old Maori way was to try and give back better than what was received.
    I say this is the way a society should behave. As for Trump and Iran there is always another story behind the seens like the trade sanctions they are being employed to slow China from catching the west Technology domanince.
    Many thanks to the Labour government for there new Labour laws the big employers are just screwing the employee with there no minimum hours temporary contracts I no some one who has all the bills one has like rent ect one week she gets 2 days work and the next 5 how can one live on 2 days a week work when rents cost 2 days work to pay for it.
    Ka kite ano

  23. eco maori 23
    9 May 2018 at 7:58 am

    I thought Winston was a Maori he is stuck in the 1940 when Maori we tricked in to a believing that the crown had OUR wellbeing in there policy truth be told they just want us to disappear so they can have our Whenua heres the link.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/103716538/nanaia-mahuta-compulsory-te-reo-in-schools-not-if-but-when Ana to kai Ka kite ano