Open mike 08/07/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 8th, 2024 - 34 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

34 comments on “Open mike 08/07/2024 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Ad 1
    8 July 2024 at 7:34 am

    Vive la France!

      • Ad 1.1.1
        8 July 2024 at 11:07 am

        While UK are more important to NZ for cultural and trade reasons, France is more important to us in our regional security, and for their global diplomatic and military presence and strong EU leadership.

        Looking forward to getting to know the multiple left French leadership and policies.

        Great few days for the left. So encouraging.

        • tc 1.1.1.1
          8 July 2024 at 12:12 pm

          Yes agreed.

          Even the french players at the euros made their feelings public on the matter as no stone seemed to go unturned to keep them out.

    • Belladonna 1.2
      8 July 2024 at 11:06 am

      Indeed. A massive turnaround from the indications from last week.
      Looks like a hung parliament, rather than the predicted right wing majority.
      https://apnews.com/article/france-elections-far-right-macron-08f10a7416a2494c85dcd562f33401d1

      • Anne 1.2.1
        8 July 2024 at 11:15 am

        Yes. but it is still a massive relief.

        Fascism is spreading its ugly tentacles around the world and when a country's citizens vote to prevent them from gaining power they are to be applauded. The battle in France has been won for the time being, but the war against Fascism is still raging.

        • tc 1.2.1.1
          8 July 2024 at 1:39 pm

          Yes Farage will keep the focus on in the UK now hes got a foothold in Westminster.

    • Rodel 1.3
      8 July 2024 at 11:16 am

      yes me too. was getting worried about the right wing trend in Europe and admre the French for pushing back. Their ability to work together to keep far right bigots out of power is a lesson for lefties in this country. It disturbs me that our left leaning parties still compete against each other in elections , split the vote and hand victory to the right and xtreme right .

      • Ad 1.3.1
        8 July 2024 at 11:45 am

        I am particularly impressed with the overall intelligence of the French voter, and Macron's team and the left campaigns, to respond with such strength and tactical speed to prevent the hard right again.

        • Belladonna 1.3.1.1
          8 July 2024 at 12:12 pm

          It was an impressive display of tactical vote planning (withdrawing candidates, etc.) from the left-wing. Although I understand that this is a fairly normal practice in the French political landscape.

          The loser – overwhelming the loser – has been Macron's centrist party. With the PM already announcing his departure – leaving a power vacuum.

          Macron himself isn't affected – except that he'll be a lame-duck president for the rest of his term. However, he's unlikely to leave – as that would risk Le Pen being elected.

          • SPC 1.3.1.1.1
            8 July 2024 at 2:53 pm

            His party was a minority government in the last parliament and despite its decline in support, it remains the largest party this time again.

    • SPC 1.4
      8 July 2024 at 3:02 pm

      Despite criticism of it, the strategy of holding the elections before the Olympics, was the correct one.

      The large turnout was one validation, and the other was it allowed a collective response in defence of the honour of France that speaks the language of "diplomatic civilisation" (pro European/pro collective security/pro the values of the republic) against a coarse and base singularity of identity nationalism.

    • Ad 1.5
      8 July 2024 at 3:03 pm

      And if you want to see what this new Left grouping in France want:

      The Front's common programme includes:

      scrapping the 2023 French pension reform law,

      increasing public sector salaries and welfare benefits,

      raising the minimum wage by 14 percent, and

      freezing the price of basic food items and energy.

      This would be funded by reintroducing a wealth tax,

      cancelling many tax breaks for the wealthy, and

      raising income tax on the highest earners.

      On other issues, such as foreign policy and European integration, the Front's policies are closer to the centre-left.

      • SPC 1.5.1
        8 July 2024 at 3:36 pm

        Ensemble with 245 seats (289 majority) governed as a minority government. And Ensemble remain the largest single party with 168 seats.

        That Ensemble and Republicans could form a majority with Socialists (59) and Greens (28), is the constraint on Ensemble being a rubber stamp for the Popular Front.

        Of course, they could have the Premiership they want and yet lack a workable majority to achieve anything.

  2. Anne 2
    8 July 2024 at 11:35 am

    Sorry, Can't resist it:

    Seems the Popular Front had an historical equivalent.

  3. Ad 3
    8 July 2024 at 11:53 am

    Surely Darleen Tana is gone.

    • Maurice 3.1
      8 July 2024 at 1:16 pm

      Perhaps she knows too much … and there are still scrapings in the trough to be hoovered up ……

      • Ad 3.1.1
        8 July 2024 at 2:02 pm

        You have to go back to the days of Alamain Koopu to see a corrupt MP that decides to stay in there for the salary.

        The risk now is that she jumps to Te Pati Maori which would bring them to 7 in the House.

        • Maurice 3.1.1.1
          8 July 2024 at 2:08 pm

          One big question: Does the phaka jumping legislation kick in when an mp is chucked out of the party (pushed) … but stays on as an independent, without jumping in to another leaky boat?

          • Ad 3.1.1.1.1
            8 July 2024 at 3:04 pm

            I thought that legislation was gone? Anyone for a correction?

            • alwyn 3.1.1.1.1.1
              8 July 2024 at 3:41 pm

              It is still there. A Private member's Bill was put up by National in 2021, and supported by the Green Party but Labour refused to vote for it and so the law remains. Labour may have wanted to keep it in order to keep some control over their large group of back-benchers.

              https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300282145/labour-ends-attempt-to-repeal-dead-rat-waka-jumping-law

              As one of their MPs said " I am proud to defend the waka-jumping provisions introduced by the Electoral (Integrity Repeal) Amendment Act 2018, which this member's bill seeks to repeal."

              https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20210609_20210609_40

              • observer …
                8 July 2024 at 8:08 pm

                Perhaps you should now quote the National MPs who spoke so strongly and passionately against the law, but have been silent since the coalition was formed. Wonder why?

                The law could be gone tomorrow, because neither Labour nor the Greens have any interest in placating Winston now. David Seymour – Man of Principle – would surely vote against it, as would Nats if they had a free choice.

                So don't pretend that a member's bill from 2021 is relevant today. Luxon could get rid in an instant, and we all know why he won't.

          • Belladonna 3.1.1.1.2
            8 July 2024 at 7:24 pm

            Nope. This was thoroughly canvassed under the Meka Whaitiri situation.

            In order for the waka jumping provisions to be implemented, the Speaker has to be officially informed (in print – not email) that the MP has resigned from the political party for which they were elected. This automatically vacates their seat.

            However, an MP can (apparently) inform the Speaker that they will no longer be voting in alignment with their party – and this doesn't trigger the waka jumping legislation, as they haven't officially informed the Speaker that they've resigned [TBH, this was a piece of special pleading, that I thought was an attempt to get around the legislation for the convenience of the moment]

            Guarav Sharma was also expelled from his party – but the party leadership did not invoke the waka-jumping legislation (again for their own convenience – they didn't want a by-election).

            Unless Tana chooses to resign (which, if she has any regard at all for the GP, she would) – then she either remains in Parliament; or the GP leadership have to move to invoke the waka-jumping legislation and request the Speaker to expel her.

            Despite Whaitiri's claims outside the house that she was joining TPM – she did not formally inform the Speaker – in writing; and Hipkins did not choose to invoke the legislation (they had a sufficient majority to not need this). Whaitiri remained in parliament as an 'independent' MP.

            https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/489284/why-has-the-waka-jumping-legislation-not-been-invoked-for-meka-whaitiri

            Hopefully Tana will not follow suit. There can be nothing principled in her stance – she's lost all credibility as an MP.

            Whether the GP will actually cross the line and request the Speaker remove her under the waka jumping legislation – is a very different point. They have been adamantly opposed to this in the past.

            Latest reports from Tana show no signs that she has any intention of quitting Parliament.

            https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/521595/former-green-mp-darleen-tana-speaks-out-on-allegations-and-plea-to-resign

            • Obtrectator 3.1.1.1.2.1
              8 July 2024 at 10:23 pm

              One can understand reluctance on the part of the Green Party to invoke a law which they themselves in the past have stated their opposition to.

              But this situation is a whole different matter from having someone quit the party in a huff over a disagreement about policy. Ms Tana has essentially lied to the party and obtained her position by deceit. We don't want people of that stripe in our legislature, and the Greens would be perfectly justified in using any lawful means to get her booted out of it.

              Prediction: Ms Tana could well follow the Alamein pattern by refusing any requests from the media and assembling a squad of heavies to keep them at bay, meanwhile playing the race/culture card for all it’s worth. Hope I’m wrong.

            • ghostwhowalksnz 3.1.1.1.2.2
              9 July 2024 at 4:18 pm

              ACT was adamantly opposed to the Waka jumping legislation too. Then they were the first to use it.

              I think it comes down to money as public funds are allocated per party MP, which are then passed onto the leadership.

              If Tana stops the money flow then I reckon it might be time to – by consensus- swallow the dead rat

  4. SPC 4
    8 July 2024 at 3:18 pm

    As with the election of LD MP's in the UK, the tactical voting in France is a validation of the concept of preferential voting to keep out extremist groups.

    • Ad 4.1
      8 July 2024 at 4:38 pm

      Le Pen is right that they won't be kept out forever.

      So this new lot and its' lamduck President better deliver some goods.

      And honestly they need to read the room on restricting non-EU immigration.

      • SPC 4.1.1
        8 July 2024 at 5:04 pm

        They probably will be kept out indefinitely. Le Pen is unelectable while France is part of NATO and on the UNSC. And Bardella has served in no executive position in his life, apart from the political party.

        The pressures are obvious, the non EU refuges are from North Africa (family connection rules) and otherwise Francophone colonies sub Sahara.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_France

        Class analysis would say that "nationalist" populism – exploiting economic hardship by blaming the outsider, can be done with correct social justice policy.

        Ultimately that requires sufficiency of jobs. Unemployment is 7.5% (allowing an association of migration with welfare cost).

        They might consider linking migration rules to the level of unemployment.

  5. newsense 5
    8 July 2024 at 9:43 pm

    The abuse and ‘protection’ of public officials. Something that won’t come up when we have to listen to the martyrdom of those who refused to be vaccinated.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/siouxsie-wiles-auckland-university-ordered-to-pay-20000-in-employment-court-decision/AT7N5ME66JA2NC4DFB2EPYCFME/

    • newsense 5.1
      8 July 2024 at 9:48 pm

      During the hearing, its lawyers argued that academic freedom was not limitless.

      What you want from your allegedly premier uni. Who let HR in the building?

      • Maurice 5.1.1
        8 July 2024 at 11:37 pm

        As usual the term "privilege" gets misconstrued

        "Lawyer Philip Skelton, KC, told the court the university placed great value on academic freedom and encouraged staff to provide media commentary if it was in the public interest.

        However, academic freedom was a “privilege, not a duty”, he said. It was not an “unfettered right” and had to be balanced against other responsibilities and legal requirements, including health and safety."

        Privilege is defined as: Immunity, right or advantage protected by Law.

        If not a "duty" academic freedom is as he notes a "privilege" then it is protected by Law.