None of these schemes seem to be UBI’s of the sort suggested by Gareth Morgan and Keith Rankin. Their UBIs would be payable to everyone, rich or poor, employed or unemployed.
…subsidies for parents who choose to stay at home with their pre- schoolers rather than depositing them in state funded day care/early childhood ‘education’.
You are right Rosemary, it is a pity that FF have proposed this. One automatically supposes ulterior motives, just like most homeschoolers and Charter schools.
Why the quotation marks around education, Rosemary? Ece teachers have a three year training qualification just like primary. It is possible you do not understand what education at this level is about, or are you having a well-aimed crack at some of the more commercial, lesser quality centres around since the world and its wife discovered what a wonderful cash cow it can be?
“…or are you having a well-aimed crack at some of the more commercial, lesser quality centres around since the world and its wife discovered what a wonderful cash cow it can be?”
Yes…yes most definitely.
But also I have to question (hence the ‘ ‘) if what pre -schoolers receive in these artificial environment is a better preparation for primary school.
Parents are the best first teachers of their children, and it was a source of personal grief that I was forced into paid work when mine were little. But apart from a brief six weeks in a private ece centre for No 1 son ( he was bored there, so we quit) all three of mine got their preparation for primary school from home.
Within a few days of them beginning school, their teachers wanted to know which pre- school/kindy they had gone to to be so well prepared for primary school. I have a reasonable level of formal education but certainly no teacher training, child development training or any other formal learning that we are now told is vital for very young children to succeed and reach their full potential.
Hmmm…when you think about it…the phenomena of very young children being ‘educated’ by strangers is very recent.
Coincides with the economic necessity of families needing two incomes to keep their heads above water.
The jury is still out on the benefits of mass ece…and I suspicion that much of the research to test the benefits may very well be funded by those with vested interest in maintaining what has become (unfortunately IMO) the norm.
Parents are the best first teachers of their children
How does ignorance translate into better teachers?
You note that you have a reasonable level of education but the majority of people don’t. That’s changing as more people get more and better education but it’s not true at present.
Hmmm…when you think about it…the phenomena of very young children being ‘educated’ by strangers is very recent.
Yes. Just a few thousand years ago they would have been taught by the entire tribe whom they would have known and grown up with.
You are going to have to expand on that DTB…are you saying that all those without formal teaching qualifications are ignorant.
No, I’m saying that the majority of people simply don’t have enough education to raise children. That’s what that really stupid referendum on continuing to allow people to smack their children got so much support.
You’ll note that less than 50% have tertiary education.
We have been told we are not qualified to teach our own under fives…by whom?
Those people who have done the research.
It’s been known for quite some time that those children with better educated parents and social circles tend to end up with better education and life outcomes than those who don’t.
I don’t really think that sending kids off to preschool is a great idea. It’s there to try and break that cycle that I just mentioned but we need to be lifting the parents as well as the children.
Having children qualifies people to comment on the role of parenting, in reality, not through statistics
No children (or raising, caring, fostering etc) does not preclude anyone from offering opinions. But on raising children, they don’t carry much credibility because they lack first hand experience of ‘parenting’
Your comment further below about the UBI and ECE for parents who wish to raise children at home, is a good suggestion. As an example of where non parent opinions can contribute
The education question was not loaded, I was curious as you had not qualified the statement( s)
Having children qualifies people to comment on the role of parenting, in reality, not through statistics
Not really. Or do you really think that the parents of the Kahui twins knew what they were doing?
IMO, we have such high childhood abuse statistics because our parents don’t know how to parent which they learned from their parents.
The education question was not loaded
Yes it was because it couldn’t be answered with an ‘acceptable’ answer. No matter what I put there you would have found a way to use it as an attack.
@Rosemary McDonald
“But on raising children, they don’t carry much credibility because they lack first hand experience of ‘parenting’.”
This.
Not something you can learn from a book.
That’s what a lot of ignorant people say about a lot of things taught in school. You’ll note that those people who do learn it in school do it better at the start than those who don’t.
In other words, you’re talking a load of bollocks.
There was no need to insult anyone, Draco. Perhaps reflect on the projection in your comments as well
That you won’t provide a response on education level (due to an imagined, unforthcoming’attack’) is counter to having a point of reference to begin with
Using the Kahui twins as an example shows me how uneduated you are on this subject, which is why statistics hold appeal to you, along with reference to the ‘smacking referendum’
“Know what they were doing” does not come into a sensible discussion about parenting, Draco. If you were a parent you would understand why your comment is so misplaced. Heck even common sense should help you with that one…parent or not
“High abuse statistics” and their causation are a very different conversation from where I stand, and bringing them into this discussion to support (whatever your position) appears misplaced
Being a parent/carer is a natural phenomenon which has been successfully performed since day one. The ‘education’ I suspect you have in mind was superfluous at anytime outside and including the modern age
Skills and and learnings are still wonderfully transferred through generations in nations around the world through a plethora of different cultures
There is no need for anything other than ensuring informative and skills based training/education/support is available to those who may seek it out, and let people find their way organically
Such courses are fundamental and elementary in form, and compliment the innate capabilities of the overwhelming majority of parents and parents to be..
Is this the sort of ‘education’ you’re referring?
Or am I to join the threads you’re leaving behind and take a path which I believe is somewhat sinister on your part?
Whichever angle it is you’re coming from, it’s not an ‘educated’ one, that much is clear!
Being a parent/carer is a natural phenomenon which has been successfully performed since day one.
Really?
Then why are we so damn bad at it?
Skills and and learnings are still wonderfully transferred through generations in nations around the world through a plethora of different cultures
Except for the fact that they’re not due to the ongoing fragmentation of society through Individualism and Capitalism.
Think about it this way:
It used to be that a household would have three or more generations living in it. The elders would look after the children while the middle generations worked. The middle generations would learn from the elders how to look after the children.
Now we’ve broken that. We have only two generations living in a house – the parents and the children. So the parents aren’t learning from their elders, don’t have the immediate support that they used to have and the children are only getting fragmented experience.
Each generation that passes becomes worse at parenting.
Such courses are fundamental and elementary in form, and compliment the innate capabilities of the overwhelming majority of parents and parents to be..
Mankind doesn’t appear to have any innate capabilities. This is why we need to be taught.
Hmmm…when you think about it…the phenomena of very young children being ‘educated’ by strangers is very recent.
So’s the phenomena of the physically disabled or mentally ill not being regarded as an embarrassment to be hidden away by their relatives. “Recent” != “bad.”
Parents are the best first teachers of their children…
In some cases, maybe. Not that many, though. The people working in my kids’ childcare centres were way better educators of small children than I was, not least because they’d had a shitload of training in it, compared to my “training” of knowing how my parents and my friends’ parents had done it.
“Parents are the best first teachers of their children…
In some cases, maybe. Not that many, though. ”
With respect PM…rubbish.
Following your logic…only those with the requisite years of study and proper qualifications should be caring for and ‘educating’ under five year- olds.
Next great ideologically based legislation will be compulsory early childhood education by ‘professionals’….oh, wait, they already did that…
“Early childhood experts are in shock after a government decision to make education compulsory from the age of 3 for children of welfare beneficiaries.
The decision, announced by Social Development Minister Paula Bennett yesterday, will apply from July to 31,500 children, aged 3 and 4, whose parents are either on sole parent or couple benefits.
Parents will have their benefits halved if they fail to take “all reasonable steps” to keep their children in licensed or certificated early education for at least 15 hours a week from the time they turn 3 until they go to school.
A Cabinet paper estimates that about 2200 beneficiary families might fail the test each year, of which 1300 might fail to comply immediately and have their benefits halved.
Dr Sarah Farquhar of the Child Forum early childhood support network said the decision amounted to “a revolution in our social policy”.”
Unsurprisingly, those with vested interests (read…snouts in the government trough) thought this was a great idea.
“‘From this point of view early childhood education can be viewed as an inoculation for multiple diseases, with these diseases including low achievement at school, criminality, unemployment, and poverty as an adult.’
The requirement to ensure children attend early childhood education had the potential to rescue hundreds of thousands of children from educational underachievement, ‘and the nightmare that could follow from that’.
It was, said Mr Reynolds, ‘one of the most important welfare reforms in recent years’, and was likely to start changing lives the week it was implemented.”
Scaremongering much?
Psycho Milt…you seem to be a fairly intelligent sort of person…for goodness sakes…have a bit more confidence in your own abilities as a parent…and by ‘parent’ I mean all aspects of parenting….giving love, protection from harm, proper housing and nutrition, teaching language and communication skills, teaching morals and ethics, etc. etc.
Following your logic…only those with the requisite years of study and proper qualifications should be caring for and ‘educating’ under five year- olds.
That’s not logic, it’s reductio ad absurdum. We could do the same to your position, by “following its logic” to the conclusion that only a child’s biological parents should be caring for it.
…have a bit more confidence in your own abilities as a parent…and by ‘parent’ I mean all aspects of parenting….giving love, protection from harm, proper housing and nutrition, teaching language and communication skills, teaching morals and ethics, etc. etc.
I did all those things in the time the kids weren’t in childcare, ie by far the greater amount of the time. But while I was at work, it was being handled by trained professionals, and life provides inexhaustible examples of how professionals are better than amateurs. Those guys did a great job and were worth every cent.
I don’t think pre-school education should be compulsory. It, however, should be an accessible choice for any parent who wants it, for whatever reason. And good quality pre-school centres should be available.
The Natz government’s policies are just in the same vein as all their punitive, condescending treatment of beneficiaries.
Parents should also have state supported choice to stay home with pre-schoolers, rather than being pressured into work.
Just wondering what it was that your Kid’s teachers were so much better at teaching your children than you were? The main thing young children need to learn are language and how to get along with other people in their family and community. No matter how good the centre is the ratios of adults to children is much worse than that of a child in a family. Parents can have far more frequent and deeper conversations with children than a childcare teacher with a ratio of one to five for under twos and 1 to ten for overs can possibly do. The same goes with learning social mores. Children who spend their time in large groups of other children do not have as much adult role modeling and guidance in how to behave properly instead learning from other children of a similar age and stage. Hence why I think Rosemary McDondald’s children who had spent most of their time with family arrived at school with advanced social skills which impressed their teachers.
I have no problem with children going into early childhood centres if that meets the needs of their families. However, I think that big commercial interests are selling educational advantages to us that are just not realistic. There is a lot of push down curriculum from school and parents being impressed by children learning school stuff such as numbers and letters instead of playing. I would say that unless a family is very dysfunctional with a lot of problems parents can certainly do just as good a job if not better than a commercial centre.
Children are differnet in the kinds of experiences they learn from – it’s not one-size fits all. Some children may benefit more from the home environment, others may benefit from a pre-school one – and there are probably individual differences in the kind of day care that a child responds to.
A good child care centre would focus a lot on social skills and learning through play – providing a wide range of play experiences. It’s actually more pressure that comes from some parents who think the child care centre should be doing some sort of formal teaching.
A good child care centre should have a small number of children for each staff member.
There are some social skills learned in a child care centre that are not so easily taught “in the home” (although it’s a bit of an assumption that parents and children spend all their time at home). So, learning to engage with people other than family members, with social rules that are not necessarily the same in each home, are useful pre-school skills.
Plus, for some children, the kinds of daily routines in schools are a shock after a more free-form day at home. So having set times for certain activities at a pre-school, can ease some children into a school-type routine.
Also, the skills needed for staff in child care centres, include some not so often practiced in the home – managing small groups of (possibly diverse) children, for instance, in play activities. Also being aware of the health and safety procedures in such situations is an important staff skill.
People who are good with their own children may not be so good with other children in a pre-school setting – different set of skills.
Just wondering what it was that your Kid’s teachers were so much better at teaching your children than you were?
In the early stages, it was stuff like toilet training and how to eat like a human. Later, it was stuff like numbers and writing – my kids could write their own names when they started school and I sure as hell had nothing to do with it. However, the most important thing they taught was how to behave in a group of unrelated strangers, which no kid gets from their family and often makes a very noticeable difference at the year one school level. My experience leads me to a completely different conclusion than yours with regard to learning social mores – childcare was much better for that. (Although, presumably the quality of the childcare is relevant here.)
Ok fair enough. I guess everyone has different ideas about what is important. My kids did not go to childcare but to Playcentre as I did not go back to work until our youngest started school. I think they did know how to write their names from memory but don’t remember teaching them. They didn’t know the alphabet or anything like that but they soon picked all this up at school. I think that learning oral language, and conversing and thinking are more important than reading and writing at that age. They have certainly done OK in the education system with the older two currently doing Masters and Phd degrees. I do believe that school and institutionalised pre-school teaches children how to fit into an institution. I am not too sure if teaching compliance in an institutionalised setting at a very young age is necessarily what they need to learn in our complex and troubled world.
I am not too sure if teaching compliance in an institutionalised setting at a very young age is necessarily what they need to learn in our complex and troubled world.
I can understand that.
Although, a lot of our school system is about funneling people into our dominant institutions, workplaces, etc – our education system does tend to reward compliance. That’s why some parents opt to home school their children and/or send them to alternative schools.
My children went through the state school system. I feel that having their early years predominately with family meant they gained a strong sense of who they are and the ability to cope with the institutionalised education systems without losing the ability to question, be creative, and think for themselves.
“In the early stages, it was stuff like toilet training and how to eat like a human. ”
I’m sorry PM…I have to wonder what sort of role model/s your kids were getting from home in these areas? (And honestly, I and every other honest parent has had a ‘what on earth have I spawned here’ moment. Or three. 😉 )
But seriously, (and moving right on along), did you never read to your kids? Never wrote their name proudly on the latest piece of pre-school artwork? Never counted out the cutlery when setting the table or demonstrated simple fractions when cutting the cake? Never played the ‘count the number of yellow/green/blue cars spotted’ when on a long and boring drive?
“However, the most important thing they taught was how to behave in a group of unrelated strangers, which no kid gets from their family…”
Did you never go shopping with your kids? Exposing them to strangers and crowds of unfamiliar people? To a movie, pantomime or an outdoor concert?
If you answer, “Off course you silly woman I did all of that stuff with my kids when they were under five!”… then you, sir, were their first teacher.
Lessons learned from the people closest to the very young child are the ones that stick.
That’s why those parents less well equipped for the job of parenting need help…
“That’s why those parents less well equipped for the job of parenting need help…”
Which is what organisations such as Playcentre offer, and unfortunately are offering less and less as fewer parents are able to make the choice to stay with their children and are working longer and longer hours. I find it heartbreaking that a beneficiary who in earlier days would have been able to attend Playcentre with their child and upskill themselves at the same time as well as gaining support from the Playcentre community, is less and less likely to be able to do this with WINZ preferring them to attend courses and seminars on things such as CV writing.
All you want is children willing to learn and teachers willing to teach. In Mexico they have that in abundance with one of the highest attendance rates right up to uni, and it’s all free.
So price isn’t a problem in education it’s that education is being destroyed for political reasons. But like any public programs it can be changed by democratising forces
But seriously, (and moving right on along), did you never read to your kids?
I qualified as a professional librarian, so well duh. I’m not saying my kids got nothing from me, I’m saying they got more from professionals than they did from this amateur. Are you under the impression amateurs are better than professionals as a general rule, or is it only professional ECE workers who are less useful than amateurs?
Are you saying that teaching children these skills…
form friendships
play and explore
be courageous and try new things
ask questions and have a say
meet people outside their whānau
learn to relate well to other children in a group
sing, dance, and play games
think and solve problems
take turns, negotiate, and share
understand their own feelings and those of others
learn about disagreements and how to manage these
learn about words, numbers, and how things work
have conversations with children and adults
begin to understand and make sense of the world around them.
….is best done by those who had to go to school for three years to learn how to teach them, or should they be skills all parents have and can impart to their babies long before they toddle of to be educated by the state?
Parents need brakes to. It’s nice to send your kids off to a competent school soo adults can have time to be adults. Otherwise you end up frustrated and that’s known to be a negative learning environment
…best done by those who had to go to school for three years to learn how to teach them…
I’m not saying that. Particularly for the under-twos, the ECE centre my kids went to had staff who hadn’t had any professional education, just a lot of experience. I’m an opponent of 100%-qualified requirements for ECE.
Since when did parenting become a ‘profession’?
I’m tempted to write “Since we implemented the DPB in 1973,” but that could start a flame war. Obviously parenting is not a profession, but professional childcare equally obviously is one.
…subsidies for parents who choose to stay at home with their pre- schoolers rather than depositing them in state funded day care/early childhood ‘education’.
I’d prefer to see a UBI and ECE training available for those parents who choose to stay home.
clearly we can’t pay women to stay at home and raise their children, don’t they know that it is a ‘labour of love’ and something that ‘women have a calling for’ and that ‘is the fulfillment of womanhood’ and that a ‘goodly women knows her place is being an unpaid home maker and helpmeet and child care provider’.
No matter that this is what keeps women poor and depended on state help should the ‘provider’ walk out, die, or fall ill.
seriously and besides won’t somebody please think of the poor blokes that don’t get paid for staying at home and doing nothing much other then a bit of household chores, cooking, cleaning, looking after gods little blessings.
When we were kids we were told how great our Country was because mums could stay at home and raise a family. On the other hand we were told how uncivilised the Russians were for putting all their kids in state care whilst the parents were forced to go out and work, and how that was terrible for the kids and the Country.
Mmmmm.
when you were a kid the mothers that stayed at home would have had a hard time surviving on their own once their provider was gone. Consider as well that if our current government could, the Sole Parent Benefit (used to be the DPB) would be scrapped overnight, cause we all know that it only incentives women into having children that they can’t afford. And for what its worth, I am sure the Widow Key would not have managed on her own without government assistance.
So to have a women stay at home without pay is not helping her ….the point is that she is completely depended on her ‘provider’. You can see how someone who would like to keep women as ‘chattel’ and children as ‘chattel’ would consider the ex USSR an abomination for not only having women work at across the Industries and have easy accessible abortion, birth control etc. Cause godly and such.
But then, its all good, cause we are going back to the good old days and the USSR does not exist anymore. Right?
Interesting conversation going on while I was travelling. It’s pretty apparent that no-one has read the amazing NZ ece curriculum Te Whariki which has earned world-wide acclaim or accessed the Competent Children, Competent Learners study – ho hum!
“It’s pretty apparent that no-one has read the amazing NZ ece curriculum Te Whariki which has earned world-wide acclaim or accessed the Competent Children, Competent Learners study – ho hum!”
I’m not reading it that way Jan M…I’m reading opinions from both sides if the issue.
Sounds wonderful…but ALL of those skills can be learned from properly engaged parents.
form friendships
play and explore
be courageous and try new things
ask questions and have a say
meet people outside their whānau
learn to relate well to other children in a group
sing, dance, and play games
think and solve problems
take turns, negotiate, and share
understand their own feelings and those of others
learn about disagreements and how to manage these
learn about words, numbers, and how things work
have conversations with children and adults
begin to understand and make sense of the world around them.
Exactly, Te Whaariki outlines what a child would receive in a family environment and a good childcare centre tries to be as homelike as possible. Things such as primary caregiving, good ratios, nice environment etc. I don’t believe it does it better than the home environment.
What surprises me is the lack of news stories and reporting on this. I knew little about it and yet it’s of more relevance to NZ than events Syria or the US election by virtue of it affecting us directly.
I can remember the furore over Japanese long lining and drift-netting of a few decades ago and the relative silence on this is quite puzzling. Are the media being muzzled or do people just not see this as important any more?
The problem is that nowadays people don’t know who to believe. Since they can’t see it with their own eyes, they don’t know what to think on the issue.
We used to have a media that would find out about stuff like this but I guess this is to expensive to report on. It’s costs too much money to get video of it happening.
CV, Russia, China and terrorist groups are miles ahead of the US, Israel and most if not all the other western nations in cyberwarfare. Because they know they can’t match us on the battlefield so use they the indrecit route via cyberwarfare ie to attack/ deny/ destroy/ delay/ exploit/ corrupt and spread false information because they know our life style now increasing built around digital connectivity.
Why spend billons on nukes why you can infect a nations power supply or Stock market for example by a simple Stuxnet virus or something even more deadly.
Hell, I still teach the my lads how use a map and compass to move around the bush. To get even more technical, I show them how to use a sun compass and teach astro navigation at night for shits and giggles especially if I’ve got dumb yanks attached to me. The look on the yanks faces is priceless Lol.
For further reading, Out of the mountains “The coming age of the Urban Guerrilla.
By David Kilcullen and the New Zealand DWP 2016
CV, Russia, China and terrorist groups are miles ahead of the US, Israel and most if not all the other western nations in cyberwarfare. Because they know they can’t match us on the battlefield so use they the indrecit route via cyberwarfare
Your rationale is solid, but my read from the Snowden revelations is that the US Gov has co-opted all major US tech providers like Yahoo, Google, Microsoft, Cisco, IBM, Amazon, the big banks etc. to put in backdoor access for the NSA, as well as compromising internet cables and network hardware world wide.
In combination with the FVEY surveillance arrangements its a lead that no other nation can match, though of course they do the best they can.
Whereas Russia may have used some kind of password phishing scam to get Podesta’s emails, the NSA can just open up Google’s gmail databases directly.
The Snowden papers I’ve seen seem to deal with Intell gathering ie meta data collecting since 9/11 which in the scheme things is small fry and can defeat this very using snail mail or have internal web system like Iran did after the Stuxnet attack there and China has one.
Russia, China, terrorist groups and their 3rd parties partners are way ahead of us in terms of cyber warfare. Some of the Janes Defence articles and other Defence journals I’ve seen over the years we (the west) really have our head in the sand when it comes to cyber warfare and we (the west) are now playing catch up. Especially what Russia is doing in the Ukraine, the Baltic Nations. No doubt the Russians use the same tactics in the US elections and in the EU. China are doing the same to everyone. On most cases the Russia, China, terrorist groups and their 3rd parties partners were able to pretty much walk in without anymore realizing they were there, in most cases after the event a occur. Very Scary stuff
If you have 3 COA ( Courses of Action) your Enemy will have 4 COA.
Your Enemy is more smarter than you are and don’t treat them as a idiot unless you want to lose.
Maybe it’s because I don’t care about theft of intellectual property why I don’t view China as an enemy. They are brutal but I’m not going to condem them unless they charge over 90 mile beach with tanks. And to be honest, China pays its way in the world and they can handle there piss. If they really want to play Cold War and ramp up a global enterventionist force then fine. I’ll treat them just like America
I’m sorry, but I’ll have to disagree with you about China. I treat China with awful lot suspicion they slowly adopting a global interventionist force posture and no doubt they will take over when the yanks finally go tits up.
They have their finger in quite a few counties I’ve visited in the last few years and locals I’ve spoken too distrust Chinese as they don’t buy local instead import their own food, bring in their workers instead employing locals. Hell they even doing it in New Zealand even my dad ranks them up there with the Indian’s, South Koreans and freedom campers as worst tourists to have. He should know he works in the tourists industry.
China had a crack at doing the same thing here in Oz during boom, but AWU and CFMEU got wind of it and told them to F off.
Please don’t me started on what they do to those Poor Pacific nations and East Timor ATM or in the South China Sea it make my blood boil.
I know this is old news, but this just the tip of the iceberg on what they are doing in Africa ATM.
VENTURES AFRICA – News from the Kenya Railways Corporation suggests that the China Road & Bridge Corporation will send in 5,000 workers to work on the standard gauge railway.
Kenya signed a Sh314.2 billion deal with China for the construction of the Mombassa‐Nairobi railway in May, 2014.
The deal is to be executed in phases starting with the standard gauge railway project which is to cover 609.3km from the port of Mombassa to Nairobi.
Im guessing you would know that All Asian hate the Koreans more.
One slight quibble with your news report. The deal is a good deal. Africa owns it so the profits go straight to them. The quality of there engines is yet to be seen. We’ve spoken about 3rd world development for decades so I’m not going to condem China for actually doing it.
If I was to condem China it would be on there environmental record. The South China Sea claim is bogus because it’s based on a cartoon Chairmen Mao made up during his interlectual purge. That’s concerning but I wonder if America would swallow it’s pride and return Hawaii to its indigenous inhabitants which I find hard to believe given how vital it is to its strategic concerns. Since 5trillion in trade passes through the South China Sea that will be concerning for China.
Paul Buchanan once said, “I wonder how long New Zealander can be a tier 1 strategic partner with America and vital trade relations with China while they’re locked into a dispute.” I want my cake and eat it to so I’ll hold fast to the status quo. But rest assured the moment VT4s role out in anger. I’ll be there.
Too right, Mr Trump. Regardless of what happened, you would have won anyway. Dems are totally out of touch with the American people and are looking for a scapegoat!
1. A thread on something that's been bothering me: How on earth was Trump losing money on his casinos while competitors were making bank? https://t.co/EsrkuLkHCV
I know for a fact that Donald Trump, greatest American President since Reagan, is a tremendous Morrissey fan, and regards him as a great, great, American artist.
While calving is a natural process, it can be driven into overdrive by the warm ocean waters that are lapping away at the ice shelves that fringe Antarctica. When calving events happen too quickly in succession, the glacier-ice shelf system doesn’t have time to rebalance, which can result in glaciers continuing to speed their flow, bringing more and more ice into the oceans and raising sea levels.
This is what happened with Larsen C’s northern neighbors, Larsen A and B, which collapsed spectacularly in 1995 and 2002, respectively. The glaciers that had fed Larsen B flowed six times faster after its demise.
So Fonterra is doing feel good ads and Ritchie maybe has a new bromance appearing on them.
From Stuff:
“Fonterra chief operating officer in global consumer and foodservice Jacqueline Chow said the campaign was designed to promote the goodness of dairy.
She said dairy was a part of the solution to malnutrition, but its image in New Zealand was being affected by “dietary fads and special interest groups”.”
Well it’s great to know that the special interest groups in New Zealand are becoming sufficiently large & influential for Fonterra to actually notice!
But Fonterra could help themselves:
– there has been considerable publicity about the disappearance of mainstream Lewis Road organic milk from supermarket shelves (only one supermarket of the six or so around here has held out) Be interesting to see what ComCom does about this and why Fonterra though that this was a good idea at any level. Don’t forget Fonterra bought the Kapiti label (it was a premium brand) about 15 years ago and promptly closed it down. Will they do the same again once they have swamped Lewis Road so we have to go back to the normal rubbish.
-stop selling stuff in bottles that pretends to be a milk product at milk product prices when it is little more than watered down skim with some additives. I’m not sure how they get away with this under the Fair Trading act. Most of this is simply a milk flavoured drink much as we have juice flavoured drinks
-and then there are all the dirty water issues and ruined swimming places
”and the innovation might even help.” might actually be how a few survive if it gets real rough.
I was more commenting on how lefties love the concept of frank’n food but the hate big pharma/agrichemical companies , when it’s those very companies that will produce your beaker burger
I’m not keen on synthetic food because it taste like saw dust. I imagine they have no nutrition value because they can store it longer. But that makes sense from the point of view of commercialised agriculture, after all you’re in it to make money not to feed people. That drives productive agriculture/farmers out, it’s horrible for the rest of the world. We talk about a supposed immigration problem, a lot of the problem is due to designers of our trade pax attempting to destroy agriculture in other countries. Chinese farms are efficient enough but they couldn’t possible justify (for example) dairy intensification because there population is lactose intolerant.
There is a movement around lake Taupo wanting to better use dairy farming/forest/water, it’s encouraging, it’s competent, well organised and they’re generating valuable data and they’re making money. It isn’t a massive movement but it proves you can divert growth from dairy intensification to sustainable methods and it’s got a lot to show already.
I’d say there is some nutritional value otherwise it wouldn’t be a food. But I take the point.
The biggest issue I see with dairying, even the people that are doing good things, is the focus on export. The whole model is just wrong, from the need for irrigation to the exporting of fertility via milk powder. People are focussed on water quality and run off, but the underlying problem is the model that says we can strip the land to make excess profit and ignore the ecosystem at the same time.
Good to hear about Taupō. I know of a few other diary farms around that are doing good things, but the pressure is always there to keep growing.
It was a good bet that you could grow tomatoes ect and pass it on to your son but that’s a suckers bet now due to political instability, so we keep doubling and not paying attention. Theirs a notion in economics of externalities which are things you don’t pay attention to when carrying out transactions. That’s to say it’s nice to feed more people but what else are we doing. We know what they’re doing to poison the environment and it makes it harder to produce. It’s outside the capacity of our culture to do something about it so solutions have to be imposed on the industry.
People are focussed on water quality and run off, but the underlying problem is the model that says we can strip the land to make excess profit and ignore the ecosystem at the same time.
Yep. People don’t understand that running an economy always costs in resources. To do one thing requires the removal of resources to do another. Intensified farming takes away resources from the environment.
Remember John Key saying something like water going into the sea was wasted?
That’s how these capitalists see it. If a resource isn’t being used to make them richer then it’s wasted. Keeping a healthy environment or a healthy society doesn’t factor into their thinking and so both have resources removed from them to boost profit for the few.
And Hollywood thinks we are a hot bed of piracy. Hahaha.
Rather over-egging it given our 4 million of population compared to the US 340 million. I’d say there is no comparison the US – we’d lose every time.
What have the Left done in the last month to change votes? nothing. That’s why the summer BBQs talk about cricket and not about politics. There will never be another Labour government.
Some these days are programmed to offer suggestions like: “Fisiani, I want you to try those new cricket patties from Canada. Yummy alternative protein. No slave labour, honest.”
The Right have done it all for them. Key took off like a scolded dog after the humiliating Mt Roskill defeat, and they picked the morally corrupt Bill 21% English as his replacement.
And you will do everything in your limited, anti-worker, anti-Kiwi invective to prevent that eventuality.
Seriously. If you spent half the time you do dribbling over US politics on NZ social outcomes then you might claim to be helping the disenfranchised of this country.
Twyford is right. The Asian elite do not care about this country.
Twyford is a careerist dickhead who goes wherever the political wind is blowing. If he thinks anti-asian sentiment is the flavour of the month, that’s where he will go, and repeaters like you will spout it out as wisdom.
So much for lefty respect of cultural and ethnic diversity. Just more insincerity.
What a self centred scum bag you are. I thought you were self centred before but you have cemented it here in your stupid, Trumptastic way.
Are you in Auckland? No, you’re not and as such you know nothing about the place. You judge Twyford but I’m sure you have never met him and so know nothing about his call for accurate information about the Asian spend in Auckland.
What really confuses me is that you ruptured an arsehole about Twyford in your own fucking county but have no issue about Trump in his.
You’re going to leap to Twyford’s defence? Figures. BTW I lived in Auckland for several years. Rodney Hide’s electorate. A lovely city to be 1600km away from.
While I find myself agreeing with most of the sentiments and even some of the expressions you have for CV, I fear that expressing them so bluntly will only result in you picking up a ban while he continues to liberally sprinkle the site with his bullshit.
The so-called democratic Israelis are not shy of interfering with other countries democracies when it suits them. The embassy is distancing itself from the comments by one of its own but you can bet senior political officer Masot’s opinion is reflective of the entire Israeli authority.
Israel’s ambassador to the UK has apologised after a senior member of his staff was secretly filmed saying he wanted to “take down” Foreign Office Minister Sir Alan Duncan.
Interesting (scary) speculation on how the relationship between Trump and the intelligence agencies might play out. With a useful reminder that the WMD thing was more about Bush and his senior official misrepresenting info than the agencies giving them bad intel.
Getting back to New Zealand for a moment, Greenpeace wins big against the dairy industry.
This sort of ruling is important for New Zealand rivers because Dairy NZ, Fonterra, and the number 8 wire farmers are no longer allowed to protest against the truth. The truth being that our waterways are under threat.
“What we’re seeing is that dairy industry is doing everything they can to try and confuse people about water pollution but the facts are the facts and ordinary New Zealanders are starting to see that.”
The Greens should own this issue and it should be theirs as an election platform along with renters rights. Labour should focus on housing affordability and worker’s rights. NZ First should focus on immigration concerns. They should all be allowed to comment on lack of infrastructure and the underfunding of social services.
These parties and the people who vote for these parties all want the government changed for the good of the whole country. Tasks need to be delegated.
A coalition government in waiting should have a devolution of tasks, and I think it would help individuals aligned with particular concerns to be able to devote their energies to that concern while at the same time not attacking others’ concerns.
In short, each party in the coalition would own their ground but also have common ground.
The Greens have always said environment, society and economy are indivisible. Labour likewise has policies in all 3 areas. Winston First have usually been a thing unto themselves.
I don’t like the police numbers thing being associated with Labour or Green. Clearly it is the penny pinching current government which has presided over the increase in volume crime in this country but the stick part should be delegated to NZ first.
Fearmongering. That poll shows people’s fears, not whether war is likely or not. It also appears to be showing that the countries where people are happiest have less people concerned about war.
Joyzus !!! … Farrar/ Slater / other prominent Tory shills must be absolutely pissing themselves with glee
You see, there’s a little event coming up in New Zealand politics later this year (maybe even sooner than we think, who knows ?). It’s called … wait for it …
… the 2017 New Zealand General Election.
And what does the premier Left-leaning forum for the New Zealand labour movement do ? – increasingly tears itself apart, … first during the US Presidential Election campaign late last year, then over the rights and wrongs of Superpower involvement in Syria, and now over allegations of Russian interference in the US Presidential Election.
Authors happily abusing each other, expletives being thrown about with wild abandon, regular commenters abusing authors and vice versa, … basically a whole lot of people stridently crossing the line from bona fide robust debate to bitter and waspish personal insults, outright contempt and the determination to win their petty little battles no matter what the long-term cost.
Now the last thing I want to sound like here is some sort of horrendous touchy-feely New Age Middle-Class Hand-Wringing Liberal Hippy “Facilitator”… BUT … the kind of personal abuse that’s been going on almost inevitably ends up emotionally wounding people (even when they’re too proud to admit it), in turn generating long-term grudges and resentment, if not immediate ruptures (with the potential for authors to suddenly pack their up bags and fuck the fuck off, never to be heard of again).
Not something we necessarily need in Election Year … especially when we’re up against ruthless, power-hungry, tightly disciplined opponents.
Despite being firmly in that broad camp I associate with Bill, CV, Morrissey, Olwyn, Puddleglum and various others on these contentious issues – and despite having occasionally thrown a few snide little grenades into the conversation myself – from now on I’m going to discipline myself to avoid any involvement in these specific debates.
Who knows, might be in the Left’s long-term interests if others consider doing likewise.
Or … to put it all another way … Do we always have to live up to the Life of Brian sketch ?
I mean, every single fucking time ?
I’m trying to help NZ communities. You, however, are some sort of egomaniac and retarded keyboard hack who has no empathetic thought for anyone but yourself and this proof is born by the amount of time you spent on USA threads.
It amuses me greatly how a group of people who put so much weight into the concept of the collective, fight to the death over such irrelevant micro issues.
Know it all, never can see another view point egotists will always be the Achilles heel of the left.
“the kind of personal abuse that’s been going on almost inevitably ends up emotionally wounding people (even when they’re too proud to admit it), in turn generating long-term grudges and resentment”
Quite. If left-leaning citizens cannot behave like grown-ups in our own discussion spaces, why would anybody vote for the organisations we champion?
Hey swordfish, I agree with most of your comments, you make a very good point, but can I ask you if you honestly believe that any thing said or stated in this forum will have any influence what so ever over the outcome of the up coming election? My guess is NO.
Trying to change the behaviour of “old men stuck in a mind set” is the same as pissing into the wind.
It’s the largest left wing blog in NZ. The political blogosphere plays a part in the election cycle both directly, via the MSM, and via activism. Of course the website has influence. Whether we make good use of that influence is another matter.
I’m also wanting to focus on other areas so if you or anyone wants to see different content and hopefully different discussion, feel free to put forward ideas.
Ok,hows about moving all mad scientist stuff to a battle ground where they can scratch each others eyes out –not where mortals like me get confused by it all.
Having set up spaces for US election conversations during the election, and then diverting people there I can say it’s a lot of work. If people want to do what they did today, it’s pretty hard to stop them. We can of course set up different kinds of conversations if people want that, but whenever I offer that I generally don’t get too many suggestions.
1. Some new authors. I would be happy to arrange a login for you because your poll analysis is second to none.
2. The fights we have had over US politics is rather difficult. Some of us prefer to pull our fingernails out than support Trump. But that does not sit with others.
Author wise we are now fine. I agree to the onward and upward proposal.
Your second point is a bit like Wittgenstein’s duck-rabbit. Some see an orange greed monster at the helm of a superpower, others see a very compromised left with all the machinery of power behind it finally getting its comeuppance. Broadly speaking, both sides seem to respect Bernie Sanders, Jeremy Corbyn and Helen Kelly – perhaps we need to bear that touchstone in mind.
As one of the more vocal people arguing for Clinton here (who would have much preferred Bernie, O’Malley, or a long list of others that didn’t put their hand up), I’m quite happy to see compromised Democrat elites getting their comeuppance.
But the price is that many real, vulnerable people really are going to get damaged over the next few years by the orange greed monster. To a far greater extent than they would be under the compromised Dems. With no guarantee that the next cohort of Democrat elites will be less compromised. To me, that damage to the vulnerable is way way too high a price to pay for the temporary satisfaction of kicking elites who are already well-insulated from any potential pain.
Well the election has been and gone and most of us here didn’t have a vote in it. The result is what it is. In that respect Bernie Sanders has the right idea – to regroup, support what is good and fiercely oppose what is bad.
I can understand the impulse to throw a grenade at a comfortable two party system of political elitists, and I abhor the Democratic parties alignment with imperialist corporations, while, at the same time, I am horrified by Trump..
The election of Trump may be for the best in the end.
A definable enemy is easier to fight than someone who pretends to be on our side, but really isn’t. Like the US Democrats and “third way” Labour parties.
I think it’s appropriate that this all plays out on here. The battle of the collapsing media and political establishment and those more tied up within it and those that aren’t.
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Postmodernism has long been looked upon as an indecipherable ideology and a source of amusement. In 1996 Alan Sokal, a physics professor at New York University, had a hoax article published in ‘Social Text’ an academic journal of postmodern cultural studies. In ‘Transgressing the Boundaries: Towards a Transformative Hermeneutics of ...
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Yesterday's Gone: Cold shivers are running up and down the spines of conservatives everywhere. Donald Trump may have gone, but all the signs point to there being something much more momentous in the wind-shift than a simple return to the status quo ante. A change is gonna come. ONE COULD ...
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Nothing more from me today - I'm off to Wellington, to participate in the city's annual roleplaying convention (which has also eaten my time for the whole week, limiting blogging despite there being interesting things happening). Normal bloggage will resume Tuesday. ...
The Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weaponscame into force today, making the development, possession, use or threat of use of nuclear weapons illegal in international law. Every nuclear-armed state is now a criminal regime. The corporations and scientists who design, build and maintain their illegal weapons are now ...
"Come The Revolution!" The key objective of Bernard Hickey’s revolutionary solution to the housing crisis is a 50 percent reduction in the price of the average family home. This will be achieved by the introduction of Capital Gains, Land, and Wealth taxes, and by the opening up of currently RMA-protected ...
by Daphna Whitmore Twitter and Facebook shutting down Trump’s accounts after his supporters stormed Capitol Hill is old news now but the debates continue over whether the actions against Trump are a good thing or not. Those in favour of banning Trump say Twitter and Facebook are private companies and ...
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[Opening comments, welcome and thank you to Auckland University etc] It is a great pleasure to be here this afternoon to celebrate such an historic occasion - the entry into force of the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons. This is a moment many feared would never come, but ...
The Government is providing $3 million in one-off seed funding to help disabled people around New Zealand stay connected and access support in their communities, Minister for Disability Issues, Carmel Sepuloni announced today. The funding will allow disability service providers to develop digital and community-based solutions over the next two ...
Border workers in quarantine facilities will be offered voluntary daily COVID-19 saliva tests in addition to their regular weekly testing, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. This additional option will be rolled out at the Jet Park Quarantine facility in Auckland starting on Monday 25 January, and then to ...
The next steps in the Government’s ambitious firearms reform programme to include a three-month buy-back have been announced by Police Minister Poto Williams today. “The last buy-back and amnesty was unprecedented for New Zealand and was successful in collecting 60,297 firearms, modifying a further 5,630 firearms, and collecting 299,837 prohibited ...
Upscaling work already underway to restore two iconic ecosystems will deliver jobs and a lasting legacy, Conservation Minister Kiri Allan says. “The Jobs for Nature programme provides $1.25 billion over four years to offer employment opportunities for people whose livelihoods have been impacted by the COVID-19 recession. “Two new projects ...
The Government has released its Public Housing Plan 2021-2024 which outlines the intention of where 8,000 additional public and transitional housing places announced in Budget 2020, will go. “The Government is committed to continuing its public house build programme at pace and scale. The extra 8,000 homes – 6000 public ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has congratulated President Joe Biden on his inauguration as the 46th President of the United States of America. “I look forward to building a close relationship with President Biden and working with him on issues that matter to both our countries,” Jacinda Ardern said. “New Zealand ...
A major investment to tackle wilding pines in Mt Richmond will create jobs and help protect the area’s unique ecosystems, Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor says. The Mt Richmond Forest Park has unique ecosystems developed on mineral-rich geology, including taonga plant species found nowhere else in the country. “These special plant ...
To further protect New Zealand from COVID-19, the Government is extending pre-departure testing to all passengers to New Zealand except from Australia, Antarctica and most Pacific Islands, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “The change will come into force for all flights arriving in New Zealand after 11:59pm (NZT) on Monday ...
Bay Conservation Cadets launched with first intake Supported with $3.5 million grant Part of $1.245b Jobs for Nature programme to accelerate recover from Covid Cadets will learn skills to protect and enhance environment Environment Minister David Parker today welcomed the first intake of cadets at the launch of the Bay ...
The Prime Minister of New Zealand Jacinda Ardern and the Prime Minister of the Cook Islands Mark Brown have announced passengers from the Cook Islands can resume quarantine-free travel into New Zealand from 21 January, enabling access to essential services such as health. “Following confirmation of the Cook Islands’ COVID ...
Jobs for Nature funding is being made available to conservation groups and landowners to employ staff and contractors in a move aimed at boosting local biodiversity-focused projects, Conservation Minister Kiritapu Allan has announced. It is estimated some 400-plus jobs will be created with employment opportunities in ecology, restoration, trapping, ...
The Government has approved an exception class for 1000 international tertiary students, degree level and above, who began their study in New Zealand but were caught offshore when border restrictions began. The exception will allow students to return to New Zealand in stages from April 2021. “Our top priority continues ...
Today’s deal between Meridian and Rio Tinto for the Tiwai smelter to remain open another four years provides time for a managed transition for Southland. “The deal provides welcome certainty to the Southland community by protecting jobs and incomes as the region plans for the future. The Government is committed ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has appointed Anna Curzon to the APEC Business Advisory Council (ABAC). The leader of each APEC economy appoints three private sector representatives to ABAC. ABAC provides advice to leaders annually on business priorities. “ABAC helps ensure that APEC’s work programme is informed by business community perspectives ...
The Government’s prudent fiscal management and strong policy programme in the face of the COVID-19 global pandemic have been acknowledged by the credit rating agency Fitch. Fitch has today affirmed New Zealand’s local currency rating at AA+ with a stable outlook and foreign currency rating at AA with a positive ...
The Government is putting in place a suite of additional actions to protect New Zealand from COVID-19, including new emerging variants, COVID-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said today. “Given the high rates of infection in many countries and evidence of the global spread of more transmissible variants, it’s clear that ...
$36 million of Government funding alongside councils and others for 19 projects Investment will clean up and protect waterways and create local jobs Boots on the ground expected in Q2 of 2021 Funding part of the Jobs for Nature policy package A package of 19 projects will help clean up ...
Michelle Kidd defines her role at Auckland’s specialist family violence court as te kaiwhakatere – the navigator. It’s a one-of-a-kind job, helping guide defendants through the court system. And there’s no one better suited to it than Whaea Michelle.First published November 24, 2020.Whaea Michelle is part of Frame, a series of short ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sallie Yea, Associate professor & Principal Research Fellow, La Trobe University Each year, thousands of men and boys labour under extremely exploitative conditions on commercial fishing vessels owned by Taiwanese, Chinese and South Korean companies. The Taiwanese fleet, which operates in all ...
Children’s Minister Kelvin Davis believes the Crown should maintain responsibility for the care and protection of at-risk and vulnerable children, regardless of their race. Moreover, he is confident his all-Maori team of advisers will not be taking race into account as they help to improve Oranga Tamariki’s care and protection of ...
It’s easy to sacrifice John Banks. It’s a lot harder for brands, sports organisations and government to truly stop funding racism. Are they willing to try?Yesterday John Banks, the former Auckland mayor and MP, became subject to one of the fastest firings in media history when audio covering his approving ...
A community is outraged after Auckland Council granted consent for a row of trees planted by local kids to be removed along a revitalised waterway in South Auckland, reports Justin Latif. An Auckland Council decision to give contractors the all-clear to chop down 12 mānuka and kānuka trees shading Māngere’s Tararata ...
Te Pūtahitanga o Te Waipounamu hopes that the recent changes to Oranga Tamariki leadership present an opportunity for a long overdue paradigm shift that will place whānau at the heart of the child welfare sector. Pouārahi Helen Leahy says that ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Rice, Professor of Management, University of New England Elon Musk is now the world’s richest person, edging out previous title holder Amazon’s Jeff Bezos. His rocketing fortune is due to the booming share price of Tesla, the maker of electric vehicles ...
There are now three returnees who contracted the virus in the Auckland isolation facility then left into the community while positive. These are some of the questions that need to be resolved. At 10.20pm last night the Ministry of Health confirmed that the two cases they’d been treating as probable ...
Having a hard time remembering to scan in on the NZ Covid Tracer app when you’re out and about? Get this song stuck in your head and you’ll never forget again.Learn the lyrics:Aotearoa, it’s time to get scanning!I mean if you think about it, it never really wasn’t time we ...
We conclude our week-long examination of New Zealand writer Roderick Finlayson with a review of his stories by John Newton Roger Hickin’s Cold Hub Press is one of the small miracles of contemporary New Zealand publishing. Over the last decade, on what can only be a shoe-string budget, the ...
Thursday 28th January, AUCKLAND: Drive Electric, the not-for-profit with one mission – making electric vehicle uptake in New Zealand mainstream, welcomes the announcement by the Government today as a sign of what’s to come through 2021, and we are confident ...
The Government announced today key policy decisions on the proposed clean car policies. The MIA has stated on many occasions that we support well thought out and constructive policies that will lead to an increased rate in the reduction of CO2 emissions from ...
Get wild, get cultured, get fed and then get to bed: the essential guide to a perfect few days in the southern city. There’s one thing that preoccupies the staff of The Spinoff almost as much as arranging popular food items into arbitrary lists, and that’s Dunedin. A quite remarkable ...
John Banks’ racist exchange with a Magic Talk listener on Tuesday was the latest in nearly 50 years of talkback controversies. Donna Chisholm has the receipts.John Banks axed over Māori ‘stone age culture’ comments on Magic Talk1972: On Radio I, sports talkback host Tim Bickerstaff launches a “Punch a Pom ...
*This article first appeared on RNZ and is republished with permission.Two new community Covid-19 cases have been identified as the more infectious South African variant, but Auckland Mayor Phil Goff sayit would be "premature to go into lockdown now". The two new cases of Covid-19 identified in the ...
Today, for the second time in two months Dunedin climate protectors have locked themselves to the railway tracks outside the Dunedin Railway station to stop the KiwiRail coal train from Bathurst Resources’ Takitimu mine in Southland to Fonterra’s ...
KiwiRail STOP Hauling COAL Today, for the second time in two months Dunedin climate protectors have locked themselves to the railway tracks outside the Dunedin Railway station to stop the KiwiRail coal train from Bathurst Resources’ Takitimu mine ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adam Dunn, Associate professor, University of Sydney The government is rolling out a new public information campaign this week to reassure the public about the safety of COVID-19 vaccines, which one expert has said “couldn’t be more crucial” to people actually getting ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Therese O’Sullivan, Associate Professor, Edith Cowan University The COVID vaccine rollout has placed the issue of vaccination firmly in the spotlight. A successful rollout will depend on a variety of factors, one of which is vaccine acceptance. One potential hurdle to vaccine ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Bernard Walker, Associate Professor in Organisations and Leadership, University of Canterbury Kiwis know what it’s like when life throws curveballs. We’ve had major quakes, floods, fires, an eruption, a terrorist attack and now a pandemic. In those situations, it’s the ability to ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Irwin, Emeritus professor, Murdoch University While we continue to be occupied with the COVID pandemic, another life-threatening disease has emerged in northern Australia, one that’s cause for considerable alarm for the millions of dog owners around the country. This disease — ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Cath Ferguson, Academic, Edith Cowan University Almost half of Australian adults struggle with reading. Similar levels of struggling readers are reported in the United Kingdom and United States. This does not mean all struggling readers are illiterate. It means they often struggle ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Abbas Shieh, Assistant Professor of Urban Planning and Design, Islamic Azad University The industrial revolution transformed cities, resulting in places of residence and work becoming more distant than ever before. This spatial segregation is still largely embedded in the design of our ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ari Mattes, Lecturer in Communications and Media, University of Notre Dame Australia Review: Occupation: Rainfall, written and directed by Luke Sparke Historically, when a sequel to a film was greenlit, you could rest assured this was because the first film made a ...
Welcome to The Spinoff’s live updates for January 28, keeping you up to date with the latest local and international news. Reach me on stewart@thespinoff.co.nzOur members make The Spinoff happen! Every dollar contributed directly funds our editorial team – click here to learn more about how you can support us ...
Good morning and welcome to The Bulletin. In today’s edition: Tourism suffers in the shadow of Covid-19, two new positive cases in Auckland confirmed, and National will contest the Māori electorates.The front page of the January 4 Greymouth Star carried grim tidings for several of the glacier towns on the ...
*This article first appeared on RNZ and is republished with permission. Two people who left managed isolation on January 15 have been confirmed as positive Covid-19 cases, with the Ministry of Health urging anyone who visited the same locations during the same time period as the infected pair in Auckland to ...
The watchlist of 'offensive or unreasonable' babies' names is to be reviewed, to include more names from other languages. Generations of the Īhaka family have played a meaningful role in bringing Te Reo and stories of Māori to our wider community. Archdeacon Sir Kīngi Matutaera Īhaka (Te Aupōuri, 1921-93) was known as the orator of ...
After Morocco’s flagrant violation of the terms of the ceasefire in Western Sahara on Friday 13 November 2020 war broke out between the two sides. In the midst of this war Tauranga based Ballance Agri-Nutrients has decided to carry on importing phosphate ...
Nicholas Agar suggests that our handling of the pandemic could be partly down to our distinctive Treaty of Waitangi relationship, and Māori ideas that enabled us to make it through without tens of thousands of deaths A mission for universities in the coming decade will be a deep understanding of the meaning ...
A young girl who once sent $5 to an embattled America's Cup team is now among the women on the water helping run the contest for the Auld Mug. As an eager and generous nine-year-old, Melanie Roberts posted a letter, with a $5 note, to OneAustralia’s America’s Cup team. It was 1995, ...
At 5am today, cock’s crow, the embargo lifted on the Ockham New Zealand Book Awards longlist. Here are the books in the race, followed by thoughts from poetry editor Chris Tse and books editor Catherine Woulfe. A shortlist of four books in each category will be announced March 3, with ...
Ignoring those QR codes when you drop into the supermarket? Can’t be bothered when you grab a coffee? The people serving you notice, and you’re freaking them out.So far, New Zealanders’ use of the Covid-19 Tracer app has been notably woeful. Food industry workers who’ve watched streams of customers walk ...
Steve Braunias reveals the longlist of the 2021 Ockham New Zealand book awards Apart from one or two unfortunate omissions which cast doubt on the sanity and intellectual acumen of judges, especially the nobodies who judged this year's non-fiction, the longlist for the 2021 Ockham New Zealand book awards is ...
By Lulu Mark in Port Moresby Papua New Guinea’s biggest hospital is straining to provide medical services to the growing population of the capital Port Moresby – with an estimated growth rate of 3 percent annually, a medical executive says. Port Moresby General Hospital chief executive officer Dr Paki Molumi ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Nationals who attend Thursday’s memorial service in Tweed Heads for Doug Anthony, who died last month aged 90, may muse on the contrast between the state of their party when he led it and now. ...
Returning to quarantine-free travel in 2021 doesn't just need a vaccine, but a way to check whether arriving passengers are actually immune to the virus. A smart Kiwi science start-up is working with a global biometrics giant to make that happen. A deal signed between Kiwi research and development company Orbis Diagnostics, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Caitlyn Forster, PhD Candidate, School of Life and Environmental Sciences, University of Sydney This summer’s wetter conditions have created great conditions for flowering plants. Flowers provide sweet nectar and protein-rich pollen, attracting many insects, including bees. Commercial honey bees are also thriving: ...
Lotto scratchie tickets featuring the pop band Six60 are being withdrawn after a public backlash. In a statement, Lotto NZ said there had been a mutual decision made with the band to remove the tickets from sale following the negative feedback, and it offered an apology. The band faced criticism, both ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Russell Dean Christopher Bicknell, Post-doctoral researcher in Palaeobiology , University of New England Shell-crushing predation was already in full swing half a billion years ago, as our new research published in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B reveals. A hyena devouring ...
Vodafone has suspended advertising on the radio station amid calls for talkback host John Banks to be taken off air after yet another racist outburst. Alex Braae reports. In an alarming segment of talkback radio, former Auckland mayor John Banks endorsed the views of a caller who described Māori as a ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By David Welch, Senior Lecturer, University of Auckland When a COVID-19 case was found in Northland last Sunday, Aotearoa’s second-longest period with no detected community case came to an end. ESR scientists worked late into Sunday night to obtain a whole genome sequence ...
He has the perfect moustache, an exceptional mullet, and he uses terms like ‘face hole’ on national TV. Who or what is Dr Joel Rindelaub?I was drawn in by the moustache, but it was the mullet that really kept me there. Watching TVNZ’s Breakfast yesterday morning I was fixated. Often, ...
We’ll never be royals with nearly a quarter of declined baby names featuring “Royal” in some form or another. Te Tari Taiwhenua Department of Internal Affairs has released the list of names declined in 2020 by the Registrar-General of Births, Deaths and ...
After a raft of inquiries delving into and recommending what should be done about the politically beleaguered Orangi Tamaraki, along with the briefing papers we suppose he has been given, we imagined Children’s Minister Kelvin Davis would have no more need for expert advice. Wrong. He has ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Vincent Ho, Senior Lecturer and clinical academic gastroenterologist, Western Sydney University There’s a common assumption men take longer than women to poo. People say so on Twitter, in memes, and elsewhereonline. But is that right? What could explain it? And if ...
Just as sexuality is a spectrum, so too is asexuality. In Ace of Hearts, members of New Zealand’s asexual community talk about the challenges and misconceptions of identifying as ace.First published November 17, 2020.Ace of Hearts is part of Frame, a series of short documentaries produced by Wrestler for The Spinoff.“A ...
Sam Brooks wasn’t allowed to watch kids TV as a kid. Now, as a 30 year old man, he watches it for the first time.My mother’s approach to parenting was unorthodox. I wrote weekly book reports on top of my actual homework, I did maths equations in Roman numerals and ...
Pacific Media Watch newsdesk More leading Indonesian figures have made racial slurs against Natalius Pigai, former chair of the National Human Rights Commission (Komnas HAM) – and all West Papuans, says United Liberation Movement of West Papua (ULMWP) interim president Benny Wenda. “Since the illegal Indonesian invasion in 1963, Indonesian ...
“The Government’s failure to even conduct a standard cost-benefit analysis for the most expensive infrastructure project in New Zealand’s history is mind-bogglingly arrogant,” says New Zealand Taxpayers’ Union spokesman Louis Houlbrooke. “A ...
The Ministry of Health is today drawing backlash from the local New Zealand vaping industry following its release of proposed regulations for the Smokefree Environments and Regulated Products Act. Vaping Trade Association New Zealand (VTANZ) President, ...
Sophie Gilmour and Simon Day are joined by special guest Hugo Baird, co-owner of Grey Lynn’s Honey Bones and Lilian, to talk about opening new pub Hotel Ponsonby.Auckland is a city of many bars but few really good pubs – the kind of places you’d be just as comfortable going ...
The appointment of an advisory board for Oranga Tamariki is welcome and should be a step toward a total transformation of the care and protection system to a by Māori, for Māori approach, Children’s Commissioner Andrew Becroft said today. Minister ...
Taking control of your financial wellbeing can have cascading positive impacts for your life and it can also be fun. With the help of the team at Kiwi Wealth, we’ve compiled some simple tricks for balancing your books in 2021. There’s something about the beginning of a new year, especially after ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kris Gledhill, Professor of Law, Auckland University of Technology As we know, getting into New Zealand during the COVID-19 pandemic is difficult. There are practicalities, such as high airfare and managed isolation costs. And there are legal requirements, including pre-flight testing, mandatory ...
New Zealand faces the risk of a generation being locked out of the housing market unless land is freed up and more houses built, National Party leader Judith Collins says. ...
On Sunday, Stuff published a months-long investigation by Alison Mau detailing allegations of harassment and exploitation within the local music industry.The piece, ‘Music industry professionals demand change after speaking out about its dark side’, includes allegations of inappropriate behaviour and abuse of power by male artists, international acts and executives; ...
“The Government is all at sea on timelines for Australia and New Zealand’s respective vaccine roll-outs, with the worst news coming from the mouth of Pfizer Australia CEO Anne Harris,” says ACT Leader David Seymour. “Yesterday, under increasing ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Claire Higgins, Senior Research Fellow, Kaldor Centre for International Refugee Law, UNSW As a presidential candidate, Joe Biden promised the US would demonstrate “global leadership on refugees”. Once elected, he pledged to vastly increase refugee resettlement in the US. If history is ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alex Baumann, Casual Academic, School of Social Sciences & Psychology, Western Sydney University Among the many hard truths exposed by COVID-19 is the huge disparity between the world’s rich and poor. As economies went into freefall, the world’s billionaires increased their already ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jan Lanicek, Senior Lecturer in Modern European History and Jewish History, UNSW On January 27 communities worldwide commemorate the liberation of Auschwitz — the largest complex of concentration camps and extermination centres during the Holocaust. This is the first year the International ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Lorinda Cramer, Postdoctoral Research Associate, Australian Catholic University The summer break is over, marking a return to the office. For some, this ends almost a year of working from home in lockdown. Some analysts are predicting it might also mark an enduring ...
Welcome to The Spinoff’s live updates for January 27, keeping you up to date with the latest local and international news. Reach me on stewart@thespinoff.co.nzOur members make The Spinoff happen! Every dollar contributed directly funds our editorial team – click here to learn more about how you can support us ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alexander Gillespie, Professor of Law, University of Waikato New Zealand has a strong history of protecting and promoting human rights at home and internationally, and prides itself on being an outspoken critic and global leader in this area. So, when the most ...
I just found out that Art Theorist Jon Berger died earlier this week.
His “Ways of Seeing” TV program changed the way I saw.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/jan/02/john-berger-obituary
UBI is a coming ?
http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2017/01/ubi-idea-whose-time-has-come.html
None of these schemes seem to be UBI’s of the sort suggested by Gareth Morgan and Keith Rankin. Their UBIs would be payable to everyone, rich or poor, employed or unemployed.
A pity it is Family First who has mooted this….http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11778433
…subsidies for parents who choose to stay at home with their pre- schoolers rather than depositing them in state funded day care/early childhood ‘education’.
Imagine if a parent who chose to care for their child themselves was paid the going rate for ece…..https://www.childforum.com/costs-subsidies-prices/72-government-ece-funding-rates.html
…or childcare….https://www.childforum.com/costs-subsidies-prices/274-childcare-subsidy-a-tax-deduction.html
You are right Rosemary, it is a pity that FF have proposed this. One automatically supposes ulterior motives, just like most homeschoolers and Charter schools.
Why the quotation marks around education, Rosemary? Ece teachers have a three year training qualification just like primary. It is possible you do not understand what education at this level is about, or are you having a well-aimed crack at some of the more commercial, lesser quality centres around since the world and its wife discovered what a wonderful cash cow it can be?
“…or are you having a well-aimed crack at some of the more commercial, lesser quality centres around since the world and its wife discovered what a wonderful cash cow it can be?”
Yes…yes most definitely.
But also I have to question (hence the ‘ ‘) if what pre -schoolers receive in these artificial environment is a better preparation for primary school.
Parents are the best first teachers of their children, and it was a source of personal grief that I was forced into paid work when mine were little. But apart from a brief six weeks in a private ece centre for No 1 son ( he was bored there, so we quit) all three of mine got their preparation for primary school from home.
Within a few days of them beginning school, their teachers wanted to know which pre- school/kindy they had gone to to be so well prepared for primary school. I have a reasonable level of formal education but certainly no teacher training, child development training or any other formal learning that we are now told is vital for very young children to succeed and reach their full potential.
Hmmm…when you think about it…the phenomena of very young children being ‘educated’ by strangers is very recent.
Coincides with the economic necessity of families needing two incomes to keep their heads above water.
The jury is still out on the benefits of mass ece…and I suspicion that much of the research to test the benefits may very well be funded by those with vested interest in maintaining what has become (unfortunately IMO) the norm.
How does ignorance translate into better teachers?
You note that you have a reasonable level of education but the majority of people don’t. That’s changing as more people get more and better education but it’s not true at present.
Yes. Just a few thousand years ago they would have been taught by the entire tribe whom they would have known and grown up with.
“How does ignorance translate into better teachers?”
You are going to have to expand on that DTB…are you saying that all those without formal teaching qualifications are ignorant.
“You note that you have a reasonable level of education but the majority of people don’t.”
Wot? The majority? Data please.
We have been told we are not qualified to teach our own under fives…by whom?
Yes to the UBI…but more importantly better access to ‘confidence in parenting’ courses for those who find being a parent challenging.
Like this…http://www.tipuora.org.nz/parents-as-first-teachers/
oh but wait…http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/304311/funds-cut-from-parents-as-teachers-scheme
There is an agenda here….
No, I’m saying that the majority of people simply don’t have enough education to raise children. That’s what that really stupid referendum on continuing to allow people to smack their children got so much support.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment
You’ll note that less than 50% have tertiary education.
Those people who have done the research.
It’s been known for quite some time that those children with better educated parents and social circles tend to end up with better education and life outcomes than those who don’t.
I don’t really think that sending kids off to preschool is a great idea. It’s there to try and break that cycle that I just mentioned but we need to be lifting the parents as well as the children.
Do you know the “majority of people”?
Do you have children?
What level of ‘education’ for parenting is acceptable from your perspective?
Nope. Like everyone I have to go on statistics.
Having children doesn’t make you an expert on children or how to raise them in a healthy environment.
Ah, a loaded question designed to enable you to ridicule me no matter what I say.
Statistics to gauge parental suitability?
Having children qualifies people to comment on the role of parenting, in reality, not through statistics
No children (or raising, caring, fostering etc) does not preclude anyone from offering opinions. But on raising children, they don’t carry much credibility because they lack first hand experience of ‘parenting’
Your comment further below about the UBI and ECE for parents who wish to raise children at home, is a good suggestion. As an example of where non parent opinions can contribute
The education question was not loaded, I was curious as you had not qualified the statement( s)
“But on raising children, they don’t carry much credibility because they lack first hand experience of ‘parenting’.”
This.
Not something you can learn from a book.
Oh god! Imagine reading that 83.4% of three year old boys are 97.6 % toilet trained (including at night.)
Or that 78.3% of two and a half year old girls can use three or more words in an intelligible sentence!
Statistics and parenting…mutually exclusive!
@One Two
Not really. Or do you really think that the parents of the Kahui twins knew what they were doing?
IMO, we have such high childhood abuse statistics because our parents don’t know how to parent which they learned from their parents.
Yes it was because it couldn’t be answered with an ‘acceptable’ answer. No matter what I put there you would have found a way to use it as an attack.
@Rosemary McDonald
That’s what a lot of ignorant people say about a lot of things taught in school. You’ll note that those people who do learn it in school do it better at the start than those who don’t.
In other words, you’re talking a load of bollocks.
There was no need to insult anyone, Draco. Perhaps reflect on the projection in your comments as well
That you won’t provide a response on education level (due to an imagined, unforthcoming’attack’) is counter to having a point of reference to begin with
Using the Kahui twins as an example shows me how uneduated you are on this subject, which is why statistics hold appeal to you, along with reference to the ‘smacking referendum’
“Know what they were doing” does not come into a sensible discussion about parenting, Draco. If you were a parent you would understand why your comment is so misplaced. Heck even common sense should help you with that one…parent or not
“High abuse statistics” and their causation are a very different conversation from where I stand, and bringing them into this discussion to support (whatever your position) appears misplaced
Being a parent/carer is a natural phenomenon which has been successfully performed since day one. The ‘education’ I suspect you have in mind was superfluous at anytime outside and including the modern age
Skills and and learnings are still wonderfully transferred through generations in nations around the world through a plethora of different cultures
There is no need for anything other than ensuring informative and skills based training/education/support is available to those who may seek it out, and let people find their way organically
Such courses are fundamental and elementary in form, and compliment the innate capabilities of the overwhelming majority of parents and parents to be..
Is this the sort of ‘education’ you’re referring?
Or am I to join the threads you’re leaving behind and take a path which I believe is somewhat sinister on your part?
Whichever angle it is you’re coming from, it’s not an ‘educated’ one, that much is clear!
I haven’t insulted anyone.
Really?
Then why are we so damn bad at it?
Except for the fact that they’re not due to the ongoing fragmentation of society through Individualism and Capitalism.
Think about it this way:
It used to be that a household would have three or more generations living in it. The elders would look after the children while the middle generations worked. The middle generations would learn from the elders how to look after the children.
Now we’ve broken that. We have only two generations living in a house – the parents and the children. So the parents aren’t learning from their elders, don’t have the immediate support that they used to have and the children are only getting fragmented experience.
Each generation that passes becomes worse at parenting.
Mankind doesn’t appear to have any innate capabilities. This is why we need to be taught.
I seem to remember some research that Playcentre produced the best results.
Playcentre, of course, relied on parents attending with their children, along with the playcentre associations free courses in parenting.
Educating both parents and children.
+1
Hmmm…when you think about it…the phenomena of very young children being ‘educated’ by strangers is very recent.
So’s the phenomena of the physically disabled or mentally ill not being regarded as an embarrassment to be hidden away by their relatives. “Recent” != “bad.”
Parents are the best first teachers of their children…
In some cases, maybe. Not that many, though. The people working in my kids’ childcare centres were way better educators of small children than I was, not least because they’d had a shitload of training in it, compared to my “training” of knowing how my parents and my friends’ parents had done it.
“Parents are the best first teachers of their children…
In some cases, maybe. Not that many, though. ”
With respect PM…rubbish.
Following your logic…only those with the requisite years of study and proper qualifications should be caring for and ‘educating’ under five year- olds.
Next great ideologically based legislation will be compulsory early childhood education by ‘professionals’….oh, wait, they already did that…
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10833412
“Early childhood experts are in shock after a government decision to make education compulsory from the age of 3 for children of welfare beneficiaries.
The decision, announced by Social Development Minister Paula Bennett yesterday, will apply from July to 31,500 children, aged 3 and 4, whose parents are either on sole parent or couple benefits.
Parents will have their benefits halved if they fail to take “all reasonable steps” to keep their children in licensed or certificated early education for at least 15 hours a week from the time they turn 3 until they go to school.
A Cabinet paper estimates that about 2200 beneficiary families might fail the test each year, of which 1300 might fail to comply immediately and have their benefits halved.
Dr Sarah Farquhar of the Child Forum early childhood support network said the decision amounted to “a revolution in our social policy”.”
Unsurprisingly, those with vested interests (read…snouts in the government trough) thought this was a great idea.
https://www.ecc.org.nz/Story?Action=View&Story_id=841
“‘From this point of view early childhood education can be viewed as an inoculation for multiple diseases, with these diseases including low achievement at school, criminality, unemployment, and poverty as an adult.’
The requirement to ensure children attend early childhood education had the potential to rescue hundreds of thousands of children from educational underachievement, ‘and the nightmare that could follow from that’.
It was, said Mr Reynolds, ‘one of the most important welfare reforms in recent years’, and was likely to start changing lives the week it was implemented.”
Scaremongering much?
Psycho Milt…you seem to be a fairly intelligent sort of person…for goodness sakes…have a bit more confidence in your own abilities as a parent…and by ‘parent’ I mean all aspects of parenting….giving love, protection from harm, proper housing and nutrition, teaching language and communication skills, teaching morals and ethics, etc. etc.
Following your logic…only those with the requisite years of study and proper qualifications should be caring for and ‘educating’ under five year- olds.
That’s not logic, it’s reductio ad absurdum. We could do the same to your position, by “following its logic” to the conclusion that only a child’s biological parents should be caring for it.
…have a bit more confidence in your own abilities as a parent…and by ‘parent’ I mean all aspects of parenting….giving love, protection from harm, proper housing and nutrition, teaching language and communication skills, teaching morals and ethics, etc. etc.
I did all those things in the time the kids weren’t in childcare, ie by far the greater amount of the time. But while I was at work, it was being handled by trained professionals, and life provides inexhaustible examples of how professionals are better than amateurs. Those guys did a great job and were worth every cent.
I don’t think pre-school education should be compulsory. It, however, should be an accessible choice for any parent who wants it, for whatever reason. And good quality pre-school centres should be available.
The Natz government’s policies are just in the same vein as all their punitive, condescending treatment of beneficiaries.
Parents should also have state supported choice to stay home with pre-schoolers, rather than being pressured into work.
Just wondering what it was that your Kid’s teachers were so much better at teaching your children than you were? The main thing young children need to learn are language and how to get along with other people in their family and community. No matter how good the centre is the ratios of adults to children is much worse than that of a child in a family. Parents can have far more frequent and deeper conversations with children than a childcare teacher with a ratio of one to five for under twos and 1 to ten for overs can possibly do. The same goes with learning social mores. Children who spend their time in large groups of other children do not have as much adult role modeling and guidance in how to behave properly instead learning from other children of a similar age and stage. Hence why I think Rosemary McDondald’s children who had spent most of their time with family arrived at school with advanced social skills which impressed their teachers.
I have no problem with children going into early childhood centres if that meets the needs of their families. However, I think that big commercial interests are selling educational advantages to us that are just not realistic. There is a lot of push down curriculum from school and parents being impressed by children learning school stuff such as numbers and letters instead of playing. I would say that unless a family is very dysfunctional with a lot of problems parents can certainly do just as good a job if not better than a commercial centre.
Children are differnet in the kinds of experiences they learn from – it’s not one-size fits all. Some children may benefit more from the home environment, others may benefit from a pre-school one – and there are probably individual differences in the kind of day care that a child responds to.
A good child care centre would focus a lot on social skills and learning through play – providing a wide range of play experiences. It’s actually more pressure that comes from some parents who think the child care centre should be doing some sort of formal teaching.
A good child care centre should have a small number of children for each staff member.
There are some social skills learned in a child care centre that are not so easily taught “in the home” (although it’s a bit of an assumption that parents and children spend all their time at home). So, learning to engage with people other than family members, with social rules that are not necessarily the same in each home, are useful pre-school skills.
Plus, for some children, the kinds of daily routines in schools are a shock after a more free-form day at home. So having set times for certain activities at a pre-school, can ease some children into a school-type routine.
Also, the skills needed for staff in child care centres, include some not so often practiced in the home – managing small groups of (possibly diverse) children, for instance, in play activities. Also being aware of the health and safety procedures in such situations is an important staff skill.
People who are good with their own children may not be so good with other children in a pre-school setting – different set of skills.
Just wondering what it was that your Kid’s teachers were so much better at teaching your children than you were?
In the early stages, it was stuff like toilet training and how to eat like a human. Later, it was stuff like numbers and writing – my kids could write their own names when they started school and I sure as hell had nothing to do with it. However, the most important thing they taught was how to behave in a group of unrelated strangers, which no kid gets from their family and often makes a very noticeable difference at the year one school level. My experience leads me to a completely different conclusion than yours with regard to learning social mores – childcare was much better for that. (Although, presumably the quality of the childcare is relevant here.)
Ok fair enough. I guess everyone has different ideas about what is important. My kids did not go to childcare but to Playcentre as I did not go back to work until our youngest started school. I think they did know how to write their names from memory but don’t remember teaching them. They didn’t know the alphabet or anything like that but they soon picked all this up at school. I think that learning oral language, and conversing and thinking are more important than reading and writing at that age. They have certainly done OK in the education system with the older two currently doing Masters and Phd degrees. I do believe that school and institutionalised pre-school teaches children how to fit into an institution. I am not too sure if teaching compliance in an institutionalised setting at a very young age is necessarily what they need to learn in our complex and troubled world.
I am not too sure if teaching compliance in an institutionalised setting at a very young age is necessarily what they need to learn in our complex and troubled world.
I can understand that.
Although, a lot of our school system is about funneling people into our dominant institutions, workplaces, etc – our education system does tend to reward compliance. That’s why some parents opt to home school their children and/or send them to alternative schools.
My children went through the state school system. I feel that having their early years predominately with family meant they gained a strong sense of who they are and the ability to cope with the institutionalised education systems without losing the ability to question, be creative, and think for themselves.
“In the early stages, it was stuff like toilet training and how to eat like a human. ”
I’m sorry PM…I have to wonder what sort of role model/s your kids were getting from home in these areas? (And honestly, I and every other honest parent has had a ‘what on earth have I spawned here’ moment. Or three. 😉 )
But seriously, (and moving right on along), did you never read to your kids? Never wrote their name proudly on the latest piece of pre-school artwork? Never counted out the cutlery when setting the table or demonstrated simple fractions when cutting the cake? Never played the ‘count the number of yellow/green/blue cars spotted’ when on a long and boring drive?
“However, the most important thing they taught was how to behave in a group of unrelated strangers, which no kid gets from their family…”
Did you never go shopping with your kids? Exposing them to strangers and crowds of unfamiliar people? To a movie, pantomime or an outdoor concert?
If you answer, “Off course you silly woman I did all of that stuff with my kids when they were under five!”… then you, sir, were their first teacher.
Lessons learned from the people closest to the very young child are the ones that stick.
That’s why those parents less well equipped for the job of parenting need help…
“That’s why those parents less well equipped for the job of parenting need help…”
Which is what organisations such as Playcentre offer, and unfortunately are offering less and less as fewer parents are able to make the choice to stay with their children and are working longer and longer hours. I find it heartbreaking that a beneficiary who in earlier days would have been able to attend Playcentre with their child and upskill themselves at the same time as well as gaining support from the Playcentre community, is less and less likely to be able to do this with WINZ preferring them to attend courses and seminars on things such as CV writing.
All you want is children willing to learn and teachers willing to teach. In Mexico they have that in abundance with one of the highest attendance rates right up to uni, and it’s all free.
So price isn’t a problem in education it’s that education is being destroyed for political reasons. But like any public programs it can be changed by democratising forces
But seriously, (and moving right on along), did you never read to your kids?
I qualified as a professional librarian, so well duh. I’m not saying my kids got nothing from me, I’m saying they got more from professionals than they did from this amateur. Are you under the impression amateurs are better than professionals as a general rule, or is it only professional ECE workers who are less useful than amateurs?
Are you saying that teaching children these skills…
form friendships
play and explore
be courageous and try new things
ask questions and have a say
meet people outside their whānau
learn to relate well to other children in a group
sing, dance, and play games
think and solve problems
take turns, negotiate, and share
understand their own feelings and those of others
learn about disagreements and how to manage these
learn about words, numbers, and how things work
have conversations with children and adults
begin to understand and make sense of the world around them.
….is best done by those who had to go to school for three years to learn how to teach them, or should they be skills all parents have and can impart to their babies long before they toddle of to be educated by the state?
Since when did parenting become a ‘profession’?
Parents need brakes to. It’s nice to send your kids off to a competent school soo adults can have time to be adults. Otherwise you end up frustrated and that’s known to be a negative learning environment
…best done by those who had to go to school for three years to learn how to teach them…
I’m not saying that. Particularly for the under-twos, the ECE centre my kids went to had staff who hadn’t had any professional education, just a lot of experience. I’m an opponent of 100%-qualified requirements for ECE.
Since when did parenting become a ‘profession’?
I’m tempted to write “Since we implemented the DPB in 1973,” but that could start a flame war. Obviously parenting is not a profession, but professional childcare equally obviously is one.
I’d prefer to see a UBI and ECE training available for those parents who choose to stay home.
clearly we can’t pay women to stay at home and raise their children, don’t they know that it is a ‘labour of love’ and something that ‘women have a calling for’ and that ‘is the fulfillment of womanhood’ and that a ‘goodly women knows her place is being an unpaid home maker and helpmeet and child care provider’.
No matter that this is what keeps women poor and depended on state help should the ‘provider’ walk out, die, or fall ill.
seriously and besides won’t somebody please think of the poor blokes that don’t get paid for staying at home and doing nothing much other then a bit of household chores, cooking, cleaning, looking after gods little blessings.
When we were kids we were told how great our Country was because mums could stay at home and raise a family. On the other hand we were told how uncivilised the Russians were for putting all their kids in state care whilst the parents were forced to go out and work, and how that was terrible for the kids and the Country.
Mmmmm.
that might very well be, but
when you were a kid the mothers that stayed at home would have had a hard time surviving on their own once their provider was gone. Consider as well that if our current government could, the Sole Parent Benefit (used to be the DPB) would be scrapped overnight, cause we all know that it only incentives women into having children that they can’t afford. And for what its worth, I am sure the Widow Key would not have managed on her own without government assistance.
So to have a women stay at home without pay is not helping her ….the point is that she is completely depended on her ‘provider’. You can see how someone who would like to keep women as ‘chattel’ and children as ‘chattel’ would consider the ex USSR an abomination for not only having women work at across the Industries and have easy accessible abortion, birth control etc. Cause godly and such.
But then, its all good, cause we are going back to the good old days and the USSR does not exist anymore. Right?
Too true Sabine. I was just pointing out a kind of irony on how things have turned out in “godzone”.
Interesting conversation going on while I was travelling. It’s pretty apparent that no-one has read the amazing NZ ece curriculum Te Whariki which has earned world-wide acclaim or accessed the Competent Children, Competent Learners study – ho hum!
“It’s pretty apparent that no-one has read the amazing NZ ece curriculum Te Whariki which has earned world-wide acclaim or accessed the Competent Children, Competent Learners study – ho hum!”
I’m not reading it that way Jan M…I’m reading opinions from both sides if the issue.
http://parents.education.govt.nz/early-learning/learning-at-an-ece-service/what-your-child-learns-at-ece/#TeWhariki
Sounds wonderful…but ALL of those skills can be learned from properly engaged parents.
form friendships
play and explore
be courageous and try new things
ask questions and have a say
meet people outside their whānau
learn to relate well to other children in a group
sing, dance, and play games
think and solve problems
take turns, negotiate, and share
understand their own feelings and those of others
learn about disagreements and how to manage these
learn about words, numbers, and how things work
have conversations with children and adults
begin to understand and make sense of the world around them.
Exactly, Te Whaariki outlines what a child would receive in a family environment and a good childcare centre tries to be as homelike as possible. Things such as primary caregiving, good ratios, nice environment etc. I don’t believe it does it better than the home environment.
Seems some smokers have been hit far harder than what’s been announced.
Some brands have increased 15%.
With inflation running at around 0.4% and the tax increase is 10%, tobacco companies have some explaining to do.
International trade dispute lawyers aint cheap.
Chuckles.
a few days ago ropata posted some info on China’s plundering of fisheries in the south Pacific;
http://thespinoff.co.nz/society/30-03-2016/how-chinas-illegal-fishing-armada-is-plundering-the-south-pacific/
What surprises me is the lack of news stories and reporting on this. I knew little about it and yet it’s of more relevance to NZ than events Syria or the US election by virtue of it affecting us directly.
I can remember the furore over Japanese long lining and drift-netting of a few decades ago and the relative silence on this is quite puzzling. Are the media being muzzled or do people just not see this as important any more?
The problem is that nowadays people don’t know who to believe. Since they can’t see it with their own eyes, they don’t know what to think on the issue.
We used to have a media that would find out about stuff like this but I guess this is to expensive to report on. It’s costs too much money to get video of it happening.
Some here will find this documentary interesting.
https://youtu.be/Yc7Tk3mwM38?t=2s
Director Alex Gibney on ‘Zero Days’ Documentary, Stuxnet & Cyberweapons
The US and Israel are very far advanced in the field of cyberwarfare innovations.
That’s the irony of the accusations that “Russia did it.”
CV, Russia, China and terrorist groups are miles ahead of the US, Israel and most if not all the other western nations in cyberwarfare. Because they know they can’t match us on the battlefield so use they the indrecit route via cyberwarfare ie to attack/ deny/ destroy/ delay/ exploit/ corrupt and spread false information because they know our life style now increasing built around digital connectivity.
Why spend billons on nukes why you can infect a nations power supply or Stock market for example by a simple Stuxnet virus or something even more deadly.
Hell, I still teach the my lads how use a map and compass to move around the bush. To get even more technical, I show them how to use a sun compass and teach astro navigation at night for shits and giggles especially if I’ve got dumb yanks attached to me. The look on the yanks faces is priceless Lol.
For further reading, Out of the mountains “The coming age of the Urban Guerrilla.
By David Kilcullen and the New Zealand DWP 2016
Greetings exkiwiforces.
Your rationale is solid, but my read from the Snowden revelations is that the US Gov has co-opted all major US tech providers like Yahoo, Google, Microsoft, Cisco, IBM, Amazon, the big banks etc. to put in backdoor access for the NSA, as well as compromising internet cables and network hardware world wide.
In combination with the FVEY surveillance arrangements its a lead that no other nation can match, though of course they do the best they can.
Whereas Russia may have used some kind of password phishing scam to get Podesta’s emails, the NSA can just open up Google’s gmail databases directly.
Thank you very much for the reference.
The Snowden papers I’ve seen seem to deal with Intell gathering ie meta data collecting since 9/11 which in the scheme things is small fry and can defeat this very using snail mail or have internal web system like Iran did after the Stuxnet attack there and China has one.
Russia, China, terrorist groups and their 3rd parties partners are way ahead of us in terms of cyber warfare. Some of the Janes Defence articles and other Defence journals I’ve seen over the years we (the west) really have our head in the sand when it comes to cyber warfare and we (the west) are now playing catch up. Especially what Russia is doing in the Ukraine, the Baltic Nations. No doubt the Russians use the same tactics in the US elections and in the EU. China are doing the same to everyone. On most cases the Russia, China, terrorist groups and their 3rd parties partners were able to pretty much walk in without anymore realizing they were there, in most cases after the event a occur. Very Scary stuff
If you have 3 COA ( Courses of Action) your Enemy will have 4 COA.
Your Enemy is more smarter than you are and don’t treat them as a idiot unless you want to lose.
Maybe it’s because I don’t care about theft of intellectual property why I don’t view China as an enemy. They are brutal but I’m not going to condem them unless they charge over 90 mile beach with tanks. And to be honest, China pays its way in the world and they can handle there piss. If they really want to play Cold War and ramp up a global enterventionist force then fine. I’ll treat them just like America
I’m sorry, but I’ll have to disagree with you about China. I treat China with awful lot suspicion they slowly adopting a global interventionist force posture and no doubt they will take over when the yanks finally go tits up.
They have their finger in quite a few counties I’ve visited in the last few years and locals I’ve spoken too distrust Chinese as they don’t buy local instead import their own food, bring in their workers instead employing locals. Hell they even doing it in New Zealand even my dad ranks them up there with the Indian’s, South Koreans and freedom campers as worst tourists to have. He should know he works in the tourists industry.
China had a crack at doing the same thing here in Oz during boom, but AWU and CFMEU got wind of it and told them to F off.
Please don’t me started on what they do to those Poor Pacific nations and East Timor ATM or in the South China Sea it make my blood boil.
I know this is old news, but this just the tip of the iceberg on what they are doing in Africa ATM.
VENTURES AFRICA – News from the Kenya Railways Corporation suggests that the China Road & Bridge Corporation will send in 5,000 workers to work on the standard gauge railway.
Kenya signed a Sh314.2 billion deal with China for the construction of the Mombassa‐Nairobi railway in May, 2014.
The deal is to be executed in phases starting with the standard gauge railway project which is to cover 609.3km from the port of Mombassa to Nairobi.
China has delightful cuisines. I envy China.
Im guessing you would know that All Asian hate the Koreans more.
One slight quibble with your news report. The deal is a good deal. Africa owns it so the profits go straight to them. The quality of there engines is yet to be seen. We’ve spoken about 3rd world development for decades so I’m not going to condem China for actually doing it.
If I was to condem China it would be on there environmental record. The South China Sea claim is bogus because it’s based on a cartoon Chairmen Mao made up during his interlectual purge. That’s concerning but I wonder if America would swallow it’s pride and return Hawaii to its indigenous inhabitants which I find hard to believe given how vital it is to its strategic concerns. Since 5trillion in trade passes through the South China Sea that will be concerning for China.
Paul Buchanan once said, “I wonder how long New Zealander can be a tier 1 strategic partner with America and vital trade relations with China while they’re locked into a dispute.” I want my cake and eat it to so I’ll hold fast to the status quo. But rest assured the moment VT4s role out in anger. I’ll be there.
Bill Binney is smarter than most any of the guys who write about cyberwarfare.
Thoroughly enjoyed that thanks. CIA is in active revolution
Didn’t they also claim Bin Laden got past the most sophisticated air defence in the world from a cave in Pakistan?
Donald Trump, greatest President of America since Reagan says “Hacking did NOT affect election results.”
Too right, Mr Trump. Regardless of what happened, you would have won anyway. Dems are totally out of touch with the American people and are looking for a scapegoat!
Donald Trump is the greatest President of America since Barack Obama.
Tip of the ice berg
Respect to my wonderful namesake!
https://noisey.vice.com/en_us/article/when-morrissey-ruined-bill-cosbys-appearance-on-the-tonight-show
I know for a fact that Donald Trump, greatest American President since Reagan, is a tremendous Morrissey fan, and regards him as a great, great, American artist.
Truth – Post-truth
Large Iceberg Poised to Break Off From Antarctica
Climate change is now accelerating non-linearly.
Climate is a chaotic system.
“While calving is a natural process…”
Temporarily homebound, partner and I have been hitting the Offspring’s Netflix…spellbound by this little gem last night…
So Fonterra is doing feel good ads and Ritchie maybe has a new bromance appearing on them.
From Stuff:
“Fonterra chief operating officer in global consumer and foodservice Jacqueline Chow said the campaign was designed to promote the goodness of dairy.
She said dairy was a part of the solution to malnutrition, but its image in New Zealand was being affected by “dietary fads and special interest groups”.”
Well it’s great to know that the special interest groups in New Zealand are becoming sufficiently large & influential for Fonterra to actually notice!
But Fonterra could help themselves:
– there has been considerable publicity about the disappearance of mainstream Lewis Road organic milk from supermarket shelves (only one supermarket of the six or so around here has held out) Be interesting to see what ComCom does about this and why Fonterra though that this was a good idea at any level. Don’t forget Fonterra bought the Kapiti label (it was a premium brand) about 15 years ago and promptly closed it down. Will they do the same again once they have swamped Lewis Road so we have to go back to the normal rubbish.
-stop selling stuff in bottles that pretends to be a milk product at milk product prices when it is little more than watered down skim with some additives. I’m not sure how they get away with this under the Fair Trading act. Most of this is simply a milk flavoured drink much as we have juice flavoured drinks
-and then there are all the dirty water issues and ruined swimming places
Our traditional agriculture industry may be totally disrupted over coming years anyway: http://pureadvantage.org/news/2016/11/29/lament-nz-farm/
i bet monsanto and co can’t wait to start turning out your frank’n food.
I bet farming practices are going to be far more disrupted by anthropogenic global warming than by innovation, and the innovation might even help.
”and the innovation might even help.” might actually be how a few survive if it gets real rough.
I was more commenting on how lefties love the concept of frank’n food but the hate big pharma/agrichemical companies , when it’s those very companies that will produce your beaker burger
I have no idea what that is, and even less what it might taste like.
Mate, I’ll be eating roadkill before that shit.
You do that and I’ll get the Puha/watercress
Excellent 🙂
Other measures will be needed.
“I bet farming practices are going to be far more disrupted by anthropogenic global warming than by innovation, and the innovation might even help.”
That kind of innovation is a driver in the land/water pollution and farming’s contribution to GHG emissions/CC.
No it isn’t. Vertical farms don’t have any run off as an example.
I’m talking about currently. And note I didn’t say all innovation.
I’m not keen on synthetic food because it taste like saw dust. I imagine they have no nutrition value because they can store it longer. But that makes sense from the point of view of commercialised agriculture, after all you’re in it to make money not to feed people. That drives productive agriculture/farmers out, it’s horrible for the rest of the world. We talk about a supposed immigration problem, a lot of the problem is due to designers of our trade pax attempting to destroy agriculture in other countries. Chinese farms are efficient enough but they couldn’t possible justify (for example) dairy intensification because there population is lactose intolerant.
There is a movement around lake Taupo wanting to better use dairy farming/forest/water, it’s encouraging, it’s competent, well organised and they’re generating valuable data and they’re making money. It isn’t a massive movement but it proves you can divert growth from dairy intensification to sustainable methods and it’s got a lot to show already.
I’d say there is some nutritional value otherwise it wouldn’t be a food. But I take the point.
The biggest issue I see with dairying, even the people that are doing good things, is the focus on export. The whole model is just wrong, from the need for irrigation to the exporting of fertility via milk powder. People are focussed on water quality and run off, but the underlying problem is the model that says we can strip the land to make excess profit and ignore the ecosystem at the same time.
Good to hear about Taupō. I know of a few other diary farms around that are doing good things, but the pressure is always there to keep growing.
It was a good bet that you could grow tomatoes ect and pass it on to your son but that’s a suckers bet now due to political instability, so we keep doubling and not paying attention. Theirs a notion in economics of externalities which are things you don’t pay attention to when carrying out transactions. That’s to say it’s nice to feed more people but what else are we doing. We know what they’re doing to poison the environment and it makes it harder to produce. It’s outside the capacity of our culture to do something about it so solutions have to be imposed on the industry.
Yep. People don’t understand that running an economy always costs in resources. To do one thing requires the removal of resources to do another. Intensified farming takes away resources from the environment.
Remember John Key saying something like water going into the sea was wasted?
That’s how these capitalists see it. If a resource isn’t being used to make them richer then it’s wasted. Keeping a healthy environment or a healthy society doesn’t factor into their thinking and so both have resources removed from them to boost profit for the few.
I can’t wait to start eating it. Then I’ll never feel guilty about Bessie ever again.
She was loved. Always remember that.
test tube seafood anyone?
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jan/08/fish-ocean-warming-migration-sea
And Hollywood thinks we are a hot bed of piracy. Hahaha.
Rather over-egging it given our 4 million of population compared to the US 340 million. I’d say there is no comparison the US – we’d lose every time.
Obama gives his final address with his anger translator in attendance…
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/01/06/key-peele-s-obama-and-luther-roast-pussy-grabber-trump.html
… and Keith Olbermann has a point for Trump supporters to ponder.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/keith-olbermann-trump-supporters_us_586f0eede4b02b5f858825ca
What have the Left done in the last month to change votes? nothing. That’s why the summer BBQs talk about cricket and not about politics. There will never be another Labour government.
I didn’t know BBQs could talk, oh sorry, your probably pissed, up there on Planet Key.
Some these days are programmed to offer suggestions like: “Fisiani, I want you to try those new cricket patties from Canada. Yummy alternative protein. No slave labour, honest.”
The rest is but a fevered dream ..
The Right have done it all for them. Key took off like a scolded dog after the humiliating Mt Roskill defeat, and they picked the morally corrupt Bill 21% English as his replacement.
Correct. But there may be what they term a “Labour-led Government” which in reality will only be 3/5 Labour, and 2/5 other parties.
And you will do everything in your limited, anti-worker, anti-Kiwi invective to prevent that eventuality.
Seriously. If you spent half the time you do dribbling over US politics on NZ social outcomes then you might claim to be helping the disenfranchised of this country.
Twyford is right. The Asian elite do not care about this country.
Twyford is a careerist dickhead who goes wherever the political wind is blowing. If he thinks anti-asian sentiment is the flavour of the month, that’s where he will go, and repeaters like you will spout it out as wisdom.
So much for lefty respect of cultural and ethnic diversity. Just more insincerity.
What a self centred scum bag you are. I thought you were self centred before but you have cemented it here in your stupid, Trumptastic way.
Are you in Auckland? No, you’re not and as such you know nothing about the place. You judge Twyford but I’m sure you have never met him and so know nothing about his call for accurate information about the Asian spend in Auckland.
What really confuses me is that you ruptured an arsehole about Twyford in your own fucking county but have no issue about Trump in his.
Idiot.
You’re going to leap to Twyford’s defence? Figures. BTW I lived in Auckland for several years. Rodney Hide’s electorate. A lovely city to be 1600km away from.
Twyford doesn’t need defending in any sense.
Jesus Christ, no wonder they threw you out of the Labour Party. You are a real cunt.
MB,
While I find myself agreeing with most of the sentiments and even some of the expressions you have for CV, I fear that expressing them so bluntly will only result in you picking up a ban while he continues to liberally sprinkle the site with his bullshit.
Got em all by the pussy now
The so-called democratic Israelis are not shy of interfering with other countries democracies when it suits them. The embassy is distancing itself from the comments by one of its own but you can bet senior political officer Masot’s opinion is reflective of the entire Israeli authority.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/321989/israel's-ambassador-sorry-over-'take-down'-comment
Interesting (scary) speculation on how the relationship between Trump and the intelligence agencies might play out. With a useful reminder that the WMD thing was more about Bush and his senior official misrepresenting info than the agencies giving them bad intel.
http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/313123-intel-experts-worry-trump-will-go-rogue
Deep state soft coup against Trump underway
this is very well made. well done Mr. Hamill
🙂
Getting back to New Zealand for a moment, Greenpeace wins big against the dairy industry.
This sort of ruling is important for New Zealand rivers because Dairy NZ, Fonterra, and the number 8 wire farmers are no longer allowed to protest against the truth. The truth being that our waterways are under threat.
– Russell Norman
http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/01/greenpeace-trumps-dairy-industry-with-river-pollution-ad-ruling.html
The Greens should own this issue and it should be theirs as an election platform along with renters rights. Labour should focus on housing affordability and worker’s rights. NZ First should focus on immigration concerns. They should all be allowed to comment on lack of infrastructure and the underfunding of social services.
These parties and the people who vote for these parties all want the government changed for the good of the whole country. Tasks need to be delegated.
I doubt they need that much deliberate division of their labours.
I think they do.
A coalition government in waiting should have a devolution of tasks, and I think it would help individuals aligned with particular concerns to be able to devote their energies to that concern while at the same time not attacking others’ concerns.
In short, each party in the coalition would own their ground but also have common ground.
The Greens have always said environment, society and economy are indivisible. Labour likewise has policies in all 3 areas. Winston First have usually been a thing unto themselves.
I don’t like the police numbers thing being associated with Labour or Green. Clearly it is the penny pinching current government which has presided over the increase in volume crime in this country but the stick part should be delegated to NZ first.
Another ally needs to drive this.
Here’s an interesting poll.
WWIII is on it’s way
http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/world-war-iii-is-on-its-way-says-poll-of-western-countries/ar-BBxZaSJ?li=AAavLaF&ocid=spartanntp
Fearmongering. That poll shows people’s fears, not whether war is likely or not. It also appears to be showing that the countries where people are happiest have less people concerned about war.
Yes, and very small sample, 9000 participants across 9 western countries, 1000 per country.
The interesting part is who is frightened of who.
Joyzus !!! … Farrar/ Slater / other prominent Tory shills must be absolutely pissing themselves with glee
You see, there’s a little event coming up in New Zealand politics later this year (maybe even sooner than we think, who knows ?). It’s called … wait for it …
… the 2017 New Zealand General Election.
And what does the premier Left-leaning forum for the New Zealand labour movement do ? – increasingly tears itself apart, … first during the US Presidential Election campaign late last year, then over the rights and wrongs of Superpower involvement in Syria, and now over allegations of Russian interference in the US Presidential Election.
Authors happily abusing each other, expletives being thrown about with wild abandon, regular commenters abusing authors and vice versa, … basically a whole lot of people stridently crossing the line from bona fide robust debate to bitter and waspish personal insults, outright contempt and the determination to win their petty little battles no matter what the long-term cost.
Now the last thing I want to sound like here is some sort of horrendous touchy-feely New Age Middle-Class Hand-Wringing Liberal Hippy “Facilitator”… BUT … the kind of personal abuse that’s been going on almost inevitably ends up emotionally wounding people (even when they’re too proud to admit it), in turn generating long-term grudges and resentment, if not immediate ruptures (with the potential for authors to suddenly pack their up bags and fuck the fuck off, never to be heard of again).
Not something we necessarily need in Election Year … especially when we’re up against ruthless, power-hungry, tightly disciplined opponents.
Despite being firmly in that broad camp I associate with Bill, CV, Morrissey, Olwyn, Puddleglum and various others on these contentious issues – and despite having occasionally thrown a few snide little grenades into the conversation myself – from now on I’m going to discipline myself to avoid any involvement in these specific debates.
Who knows, might be in the Left’s long-term interests if others consider doing likewise.
Or … to put it all another way … Do we always have to live up to the Life of Brian sketch ?
I mean, every single fucking time ?
Sword. A very good point you have raised and I’ve also been concerned about it.
There are some contributors who are all out for themselves, and there are some contributors who are trying to help the disenfranchised.
It is my hope that those posting on ego might stop for a moment to think about people less fortunate than themselves.
Hey great polarising comment there. Which camp do you put yourself in then?
I’m trying to help NZ communities. You, however, are some sort of egomaniac and retarded keyboard hack who has no empathetic thought for anyone but yourself and this proof is born by the amount of time you spent on USA threads.
It amuses me greatly how a group of people who put so much weight into the concept of the collective, fight to the death over such irrelevant micro issues.
Know it all, never can see another view point egotists will always be the Achilles heel of the left.
There are days you have to man up and say you’re wrong but not today. Diluting debate isn’t my style
We know you want your point of view heard, RWNJ, but community based activists have other things on their mind…
“the kind of personal abuse that’s been going on almost inevitably ends up emotionally wounding people (even when they’re too proud to admit it), in turn generating long-term grudges and resentment”
Quite. If left-leaning citizens cannot behave like grown-ups in our own discussion spaces, why would anybody vote for the organisations we champion?
I’d say it’s because there are genuine anti-left people posting on the standard. There are very dumb people like CV taking up a lot of bandwidth.
The problems Labour faces might go a tad wider than that.
More to the left than Labour, thankfully.
The main thing those endless circle jerks over trump and russia etc cause is that they turn off readers new and old.
authors too.
Hey swordfish, I agree with most of your comments, you make a very good point, but can I ask you if you honestly believe that any thing said or stated in this forum will have any influence what so ever over the outcome of the up coming election? My guess is NO.
Trying to change the behaviour of “old men stuck in a mind set” is the same as pissing into the wind.
It’s the largest left wing blog in NZ. The political blogosphere plays a part in the election cycle both directly, via the MSM, and via activism. Of course the website has influence. Whether we make good use of that influence is another matter.
Well said Swordfish.
I’m also wanting to focus on other areas so if you or anyone wants to see different content and hopefully different discussion, feel free to put forward ideas.
Ok,hows about moving all mad scientist stuff to a battle ground where they can scratch each others eyes out –not where mortals like me get confused by it all.
Having set up spaces for US election conversations during the election, and then diverting people there I can say it’s a lot of work. If people want to do what they did today, it’s pretty hard to stop them. We can of course set up different kinds of conversations if people want that, but whenever I offer that I generally don’t get too many suggestions.
Thanks SF.
Two solutions:
1. Some new authors. I would be happy to arrange a login for you because your poll analysis is second to none.
2. The fights we have had over US politics is rather difficult. Some of us prefer to pull our fingernails out than support Trump. But that does not sit with others.
Author wise we are now fine. I agree to the onward and upward proposal.
Your second point is a bit like Wittgenstein’s duck-rabbit. Some see an orange greed monster at the helm of a superpower, others see a very compromised left with all the machinery of power behind it finally getting its comeuppance. Broadly speaking, both sides seem to respect Bernie Sanders, Jeremy Corbyn and Helen Kelly – perhaps we need to bear that touchstone in mind.
As one of the more vocal people arguing for Clinton here (who would have much preferred Bernie, O’Malley, or a long list of others that didn’t put their hand up), I’m quite happy to see compromised Democrat elites getting their comeuppance.
But the price is that many real, vulnerable people really are going to get damaged over the next few years by the orange greed monster. To a far greater extent than they would be under the compromised Dems. With no guarantee that the next cohort of Democrat elites will be less compromised. To me, that damage to the vulnerable is way way too high a price to pay for the temporary satisfaction of kicking elites who are already well-insulated from any potential pain.
Well the election has been and gone and most of us here didn’t have a vote in it. The result is what it is. In that respect Bernie Sanders has the right idea – to regroup, support what is good and fiercely oppose what is bad.
I see both actually.
I can understand the impulse to throw a grenade at a comfortable two party system of political elitists, and I abhor the Democratic parties alignment with imperialist corporations, while, at the same time, I am horrified by Trump..
The election of Trump may be for the best in the end.
A definable enemy is easier to fight than someone who pretends to be on our side, but really isn’t. Like the US Democrats and “third way” Labour parties.
I think it’s appropriate that this all plays out on here. The battle of the collapsing media and political establishment and those more tied up within it and those that aren’t.