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Hacking Schmacking

Written By: - Date published: 12:59 pm, January 7th, 2017 - 155 comments
Categories: International, making shit up, Media, us politics, useless - Tags: , , ,

Warning: do not spark up any illegal substances for the imbibing thereof before reading the linked report lest you become stranded on the floor gasping for breathe in fits of uncontrollable and possibly life threatening laughter.

US Intelligence Report (pdf)

This report is a declassified version of a highly classified assessment. This document’s conclusions are identical to the highly classified assessment, but this document does not include the full any supporting information, including specific intelligence on key elements of the influence campaign. Given the redactions, we made minor edits purely for readability and flow.

Okay, I cheated there. The original document didn’t score out ‘the full’ and replace it with the more accurate ‘any’. But for fucksake people! In essence the report boils down to the fact that some peeps in the US disapprove of people in Russia having an opinion, and the fact their opinions are being met with disapproval means that they must have acted nefariously. And so we get a so-called ‘intelligence’  report that’s peppered with nothing much besides such earth shattering revelations as –

Putin publicly pointed to the Panama Papers disclosure and the Olympic doping scandal as US-directed efforts to defame Russia, suggesting he sought to use disclosures to discredit the image of the United States and cast it as hypocritical.

Moscow also saw the election of President elect Trump as a way to achieve an international counterterrorism coalition against the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL).

Pro-Kremlin proxy Vladimir Zhirinovskiy, leader of the nationalist Liberal Democratic Party of Russia, proclaimed just before the election that if President-elect Trump won, Russia would “drink champagne” in anticipation of being able to advance its positions on Syria and Ukraine.

And so it goes, an endless stream of innuendo, banality and opinionated assertions before moving on to … (drum roll)

Russia — Kremlin’s TV Seeks To Influence Politics, Fuel Discontent in US*

In an effort to highlight the alleged “lack of democracy” in the United States, RT broadcast, hosted, and advertised third party candidate debates and ran reporting supportive of the political agenda of these candidates. The RT hosts asserted that the US two-party system does not represent the views of at least one-third of the population and is a “sham.”

RT aired a documentary about the Occupy Wall Street movement on 1, 2, and 4 November. RT framed the movement as a fight against “the ruling class” and described the current US political system as corrupt and dominated by corporations. RT advertising for the documentary featured Occupy movement calls to “take back” the government. The documentary claimed that the US system cannot be changed democratically, but only through “revolution.” After the 6 November US presidential election, RT aired a documentary called “Cultures of Protest,” about active and often violent political resistance (RT, 1- 10 November).

How do I wrap this up? It’s like I went to the loo and all the toilet paper spontaneously unraveled onto the floor. I’m just left sitting thinking wtf?

 

155 comments on “Hacking Schmacking”

  1. Siobhan 1

    Yup. It’s all Russia’s fault that Hilary and the DNC and that beacon of “Hope” – Obama, are politically corrupt and could only manage to run neck to neck with a nutter in an orange wig.

    Of course the flip side is that America is well positioned to advise Russia on the pitfalls of interfering in other peoples Political balances of power.

    http://inthesetimes.com/article/17311/noam_chomsky_the_worlds_greatest_terrorist_campaign

    • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1

      🙄

      You know they must be corrupt because RT said so.

      • Bill 1.1.1

        Well no, OAB. The emails kind of indicated that, yes? And a goodly number of US citizens reckon so too (their suspicions were only more or less confirmed). And a fair swathe of people who don’t live in the US reckon the same. And stuff mounts up and eventually translates into fewer votes at the polls.

        The counter narrative is that a TV station and a handful of trolls working for the Kremlin ran rings around US Intelligence while exercising quite remarkable mind control over US voters – or something like that.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1.1

          Did they? I read them – the emails rather than the breathless “reporting” of them. Can you point me to the smoking gun?

          Or is it more of a “kind of” scenario?

          As for electoral apathy, remind me which party passes the voter suppression laws. It’s the Republicans, eh.

          Dylan Ratigan talked about a “bought congress” back in 2008, so there’s certainly something going on. The Supreme Court says corporations are people. Perhaps that’s it.

          • Bill 1.1.1.1.1

            What smoking gun you referring to?

            I didn’t bother with the reporting of them beyond noticing a whole pile of people initially jumping up and down proclaiming them to be false. Now, as far as public perception goes, that claim alone, when it’s stepped back from, is like a smoking gun whose barrel is aimed directly at ones own foot.

            There was an attempt to discredit the content of the emails that failed, therefore, no matter what the emails actually contained, enough people are going to reckon there must have been something in them and shift their perceptions accordingly.

            And all this is unfolding against the backdrop of liberalism generally losing its sheen and people being willing, given half a chance, to opt for ‘anything but’

            And that’s the elephant in the room – that liberalism is losing its legitimacy in the eyes of ever greater numbers of people. And in response, its advocates and beneficiaries/power-brokers flail and run Project Fear type nonsense (yet again).

            • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1.1.1.1

              All this is also unfolding against the backdrop of a multi-decadal sustained right wing corporate attack upon human rights and the rule of law.

              Orwell’s totalitarian jackboot didn’t have a Liberal foot inside it.

              • And that’s the elephant in the room – that liberalism is losing its legitimacy in the eyes of ever greater numbers of people.

                You write that like it’s a good thing.

                • Bill

                  Well, that’s because it is a good thing. What comes after may or may not be good though. (See my comment below)

                  • weka

                    Do you see yourself as a beneficiary of liberalism in any way?

                    • Bill

                      I could be in prison and would see myself as benefiting from the provision of food to prisoners.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Food in schools.

                      Libraries.

                      The BoRA.

                      Adult education.

                      Aquaducts. No wait, that was the Romans.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Food in schools.

                      Libraries.

                      The BoRA.

                      Adult education.

                      Everything worthwhile in that list is 50 to 100 years old. Prisoners being provided food in gaol even older than that. Since then liberalism has been wondering the desert accentuating its political use by date

              • Bill

                If that’s an accurate statement, then who or what enabled this multi-decadal sustained right wing corporate attack upon human rights and the rule of law?

                There has been a liberal flavoured establishment in power all across the western (or English speaking) world for a very long time now.

                So the governments that signed up to free trade agreements that saw the shirts on our backs removed and sold – what was their make-up? Were they not, broadly speaking, liberal governments? I do believe they were.

                And now people – in response to grey tweedledee and gray tweedledum right and left having signed us up to futures of diminishing material prospects and shrinking social services, are taking any option that isn’t more of the same.

                And if things tilt to the right (possible) then corporations and whatever other unaccountable concentrations of power there may be could well enjoy free slather. And if things are to tilt to the left (my preference) then liberalism has to stop killing off the left and step aside and away. If they don’t, then people will perceive only one choice and that will be between right wing populism and staid, discredited liberalism. And right wing populism will triumph.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Liberalism has been an inadequate bulwark against corporatism, I agree: that’s because smashing things is a lot easier than maintaining them and there’s been an awful lot of vandalism going on.

                  It was the Republican majority on the Supreme Court that passed Citizens United, it’s the Right that denies Physics.

                  What’s an effective defence against determined well-resourced hatred?

                  • Bill

                    Liberalism has been an inadequate bulwark against corporatism,…

                    Liberalism has been the usher at the door OAB.

              • Colonial Viper

                Orwell’s totalitarian jackboot didn’t have a Liberal foot inside it.

                Yes it did. Because the liberals are now proving themselves to be the most illiberal and authoritarian of all. They want alt-news sites shut down. They want systems of censorship (“fact checking”) to prevent dissenting opinions being voiced. They want approved mainstream corporate media exalted without any competing voices.

                Further, left wing “liberals” (like Krugman) are the ones with MSM pedestals regularly exercising their “minute of hate” against Trump and his supporters.

                • Bill

                  To be fair, I reckon the liberal foot is in the other boot, the one without which totalitarianism couldn’t keep advancing.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  How would a megaphone know?

                  [Cut it out right now OAB. One more ad-hom and you’re gone] – Bill.

                  • Clump_AKA Sam

                    American capitalism was founded on slavery and the destruction of indigenous populations. That’s got nothing to do with Adam smith but it’s the source of American propaganda

                    • Smith’s notion of a market economy and events such as US slavery and destruction of indigenous populations are closely related.

                      These events of enclosure, expropriation, exploitation and oppression are episodes of ‘primitive accumulation’ – the remaking of some resource into a form usable by capitalism.

                      For example, there’s the suggestion that the witch hunts both in Europe and the Americas were specifically timed to debilitate the culture of health provision and reproductive control (i.e., in capitalist terms – control over the reproduction of ‘labour’) that posed an alternative to control through a capitalist economy. (see ‘Caliban and the Witch’)

                      For me, the irony over the disputes between ‘progressive liberals’ and what, for want of a better term, I call ‘the left’ is that the racism and sexism that has evolved over the last few centuries is best understood as part of these recurrent processes of ‘primitive accumulation’ to get the gigantic Heath Robinson economic contraption we call capitalism slowly chugging and grinding its way around the planet.

                      One other point is that it’s a curiosity rarely discussed on the left that the heyday of social movements (both in advances and in the proliferation of them) has been in lock-step with the rise of neoliberalism.

                      This timing may be pure coincidence but I’ve thought for a while that progressive advances often tend to be made when extant power sees some use in them for its own purposes (e.g., the many peasant revolts often achieved success because of the conflict of interest between the monarch and the nobility – the peasants were used to keep the nobility in check).

                      My guess is that two aspects of that ‘usefulness’ in the current context are (a) it has helped split the left by favouring one set of left groups over others (in the same way that, in the colonisation of the Americas, property/slave owners deliberately elevated the status of white, crippling poor workers over black slaves when solidarity between the two groups had started to form), and (b) it allows the formation of an alliance in favour of financialisation and globalisation against both ‘the left’ and right wing conservatives (who oppose financialisation and globalisation but for distinctly different reasons).

                      On point (b) here’s an interesting analysis from Nancy Fraser, a professor of philosophy and politics, in relation to recent US political events: The End of Progressive Neoliberalism’. Basically, the argument is that the keywords of modern progressive liberalism – diversity, emancipation, non-discrimination, etc. – were neatly folded in to the project of neoliberalism.

                      As Fraser put it:

                      “the assault on social security was glossed by a veneer of emancipatory charisma, borrowed from the new social movements. Throughout the years when manufacturing cratered, the country buzzed with talk of “diversity,” “empowerment,” and “non-discrimination.” Identifying “progress” with meritocracy instead of equality, these terms equated “emancipation” with the rise of a small elite of “talented” women, minorities, and gays in the winner-takes-all corporate hierarchy instead of with the latter’s abolition. These liberal-individualist understandings of “progress” gradually replaced the more expansive, anti-hierarchical, egalitarian, class-sensitive, anti-capitalist understandings of emancipation that had flourished in the 1960s and 1970s. As the New Left waned, its structural critique of capitalist society faded, and the country’s characteristic liberal-individualist mindset reasserted itself, imperceptibly shrinking the aspirations of “progressives” and self-proclaimed leftists. What sealed the deal, however, was the coincidence of this evolution with the rise of neoliberalism. A party bent on liberalizing the capitalist economy found its perfect mate in a meritocratic corporate feminism focused on “leaning in” and “cracking the glass ceiling.””

                    • Bill

                      Thanks for the “The End of Progressive Neoliberalism” link Puddleglum.

                    • Carolyn_nth

                      Puddleglum, Nancy Fraser is presenting a particularly US analysis of feminism, racism, etc. Basically, in the US liberal feminism was the dominant form of feminism, etc, in the 1960s-80s. And embraced by the MSM – the HR Clinton’s political following tends to fit within liberalism – feminism and racism as a process of equality, diversity, etc within the existing system. The idea of meritocracy, etc was always very string in the US mainstream

                      In contrast, in the UK and much of Europe, women’s liberation and anti-racism were more firmly located within socialism, and involved campaigning for a change to the system. It was not embraced by the MSM so much in places like the UK.

                      Neoliberalism was also an international shift in increasing US-anisation of culture. So it brought with it a superficial liberal form of anti-racism and anti-sexism.

                      Bea Campbell in the UK says that neoliberalism also incorporated a neo-patriarchy, and it is brutal and violent. There was with it a faux form of the promise of “liberation”, certainly as embraced by the US-dominant MSM.

                      But stronger left wing forms of anti-racism and anti-mysogyny that aimed for a change in the whole system, never went away.

                      I do agree that the ruling classes do tend to allow a certain amount of rebellion, before they find ways to appropriate them and neutralise them – or, maybe as Gramsci said, there are true moments of rebellion and some ground gained, but the ruling classes re-group, appropriate selected elements of the rebellion, and regain dominance in a slightly changed form.

                      Also, various change in technologies etc, post WWII, resulted in shifts in gender and race relations, that seemed like progress at the time, (eg gains for women, people from the working classes, black and brown people, etc getting access to education and various jobs) but were part of the elites, regaining control in new ways.

                      Fraser, also ends by saying continued campaigns are needed against racism and sexism:

                      This does not mean muting pressing concerns about racism or sexism. But it does mean showing how those longstanding historical oppressions find new expressions and grounds today, in financialized capitalism. Rebutting the false, zero-sum thinking that dominated the election campaign, we should link the harms suffered by women and people of color to those experienced by the many who voted for Trump. In that way, a revitalized left could lay the foundation for a powerful new coalition committed to fighting for all.

                      So, basically, I think I would say there are attempts to challenge the system, that are quickly closed down by the elites. In retrospect, it could look like the social movements were part of the seemingly smooth shift to neoliberalism, but I’m more with Gramsci.

                      Changes don’t happen smoothly in some pre-planned way. They are the outcomes of struggles in contexts that are continually shifting. These contexts involve a complicated array of inter-related elements.

                    • greywarshark

                      Terrific Puddleglum – that analysis of the movement of culture post-hippy era explains a lot.

                      It appears that people who want and win a progressive culture that advances the mass and also respects all individuals instead of just a clique, must be savvy and plot to keep on track or have the prize gradually grifted away from them.

                    • Olwyn

                      Spot on Puddleglum – in both your own commentary and the link you put up.

                    • Clump_AKA Sam

                      One of the reason I write here is because people who fall in love with there political an economic abusers hit you with a whole lot of technical language and make you think your stupid and don’t understand what you’re talking about when you raise a legitimate issue, like ‘should we exclude political donations from electoral cycles.’ My whole role around this is don’t be snowed by these guys.

                      It’s the foundation of neoliberalism that needs explaining because the language is so difficult. For people reading this, it’s the belief human social systems work if there’s almost no government, and almost everything is done through markets and everything has got prices and you’ve got to pay with your own income to buy anything. It also says there should be no trade unions, no tariffs, remove all the controls, and the economy will work better. That’s only true if a system is inherently stabilising, it’s like saying a plane will go faster if we take the wings off that stabilises it.

                      We call people who present as intellectuals but don’t play the role, this goes back to biblical prophets who where driven out of the desserts and in prisoned and hundreds of years later honoured. At the same time the pattern is set and persist through the ages. In retrospect the people who honour and respect are punished or tortured depending on the nature of society. Those who flatter the court are honoured and given lots of amenities, there’s grants these days, that’s run virtually through out history. The pope now honours Galileo but he was bitterly opposed in his day. Bloggers who dare challenge the magnificence of Labour and National and state and so on. I’m not sure if Helen Clark intends to return to New Zealand or if John Key will remain on permanent vacation in Hawaii, there’s very rear exception to that pattern but division remains the same. People who we call intllectual are very weird. If a cleaner has great ideas and understanding and deep insight and plenty of knowledge, we don’t call him an intellectual because, the people we call intellectuals are the ones with privilege and authority, deserved or not, are the ones who choose to make a choice to articulate there concerns, that’s very weird because it has nothing to do with understanding and insight. You can use privilege and authority to improve the world or you can be a flatterer of the court. That’s the choice, the latter being more dominant though all of history.

                      Maori intellectuals have clustered around them flatterers of the court, the responsibilities don’t change, the circumstances change. As to whether something has changed to the lives of prison inmates is a statistical cluster of things that go on all the time so it’s misleading to put change and intellectualism together, That’s constant. If you take constant statistical anomalies, there are clusters but nothing new and thats constant through out time but the nature of oppression has changed dramatically. This goes back to the signing of the treaty of Waitangi and it’s only recently that understandings have been made to the huge contributions maoridom contributed to domestic and international well being, that’s constant, it was well known during early Auckland evolution that there sustenance relied solo on Tainui. Commerce was heavily dependant on land already in use by Tainui and that’s how our financial system developed. In England the same thing, they lived off lamb produced on farms that was once used by Ngai Tahu. So New Zealand industry rose rapidly with out technology except for pens and pistols. Just driving people further and further, making people’s lives more and more miserable and impossible. As we all know that didn’t end with Whena Coppers hikoi on parliament because, we got bastion point and dawn raids not long after. It’s formal freedom, then came the treaty settlement process which reintroduces a form of acquiring control over land or as John Rangihau Sr said it, they couldn’t divide and rule disintegrated tribes so they United and rulz, in another form which is much like today – criminalising maori woman far beyond any criminal behaviour, for maori males it’s the same, for traffic offences or what ever it may be. Now you have the perfect labourer. When prisoners are on the out side you have to make sure the eat so they can make it to the yard but when they’re inside you don’t have to bother about them so it’s a perfect slave labour camp – every ones cool with it.

                      My one criticism of Bernie Sanders election campaign is his support for black lives matter emerged as a kind of after thought and intern lacked credibility among African Americans. This criticism can be applied to anything, you could oppose the Syrian civil war or the minimum wage, it always generalises to everything. There is cross over here with maori concerns (I just didn’t want to use John Keys version of the Orewa speech) of two major crimes, the first is both injures settler colonies which is a particularly ugly form of imperialism, that’s to say you don’t just rule over indigenous inhabitants you eliminate them. You don’t see maori walking around the streets with a piu piu on and the situation is the same for blacks and that’s the second major crime of cultural genocide and expulsion/extermination/recidivism which essentially created the economy. There are reverberations that effect the present and give both groups reason to oppose repression with regards to indigenous issues. With regards to tactics is up for discussion but I don’t like how maori are fickle voters and black lives matters interruptions of Sanders rallies needed to do there research first. But all ends with discussion debate and reconciliation. So it turned out not bad. I’m reluctant to critique tactics because I was often wrong about the last electoral cycle having been to closely associated with the Internet party. If any one had asked me if its cool to take funds from Dotcom I would have said no and been wrong. But it turned out OK in Te Tai Tokerau. Tactical judgements are not trivial but it’s important to consider the Likely consequences.

                      I respect Hone Harawira because he is single minded about tangatawhenua but look at his career. He protests corporate control when ever it seeks rent in New Zealand in and out of parliament, He’s totally against the surveillance state so how much contact did he have with the problems of an Internet entrepreneur skilled at encryption. I think Hone Harawira is an important voice for tangatawhenua and I like his policies on sovereignty and style of financial growth but there are policies I don’t like and thats to do with campaign contributions. Political donations did shift Hone Harawiras campaign and he dropped issues that he shouldn’t have ignored. You can discuss tactics but as I said before it turned out ok because Hone Harawira is wiser for it and maoridom can’t replace his experience in a constellation of competing political structures.

                      People are now arguing about the minimum wage but if you take a look at the minimum wage (I presume you know this) though the huge growth period during the 70’s and 80’s tracked productivity. That started to brake in the late 80’s when the neoliberal assault began, if the minimum wage had continued to track productivity it would be closer to $21 p/h so when you hear people ask for $15-$18 an hour they’re saying lets keep it low and that’s true for everything. Neoliberalism teaches people to value work that isn’t work or in the overwhelming majorities best interest. The idea of austerity during recession is shockingly humiliating, it’s undermining major achievements since the 2nd world war, social and economic, welfare state programmes are being undermined. From the point of view of conservatives they don’t like them so they’ll get rid of them but that’s generalised across the globe. Take our health system for example, it’s one of the best in the world but conservatives are trying to make it like Americas which is the worst in the world, the American health system is literally twice the cost per capita of any other system, it’s got some of the worst outcomes with extensive red tape and the argument is lets become like them and destroy a good system. These are just different manifestations of different kinds of neoliberal policy that doesn’t like to do proper accounting. Now the Latin America which was a loyal student of neoliberal programmes is a major opposer, about 15 years ago Latin America started to pull out of the neoliberal paradigm. It’s ironic that Obama isolated himself so much he was forced to normalise relations with Cuba because the US gets thrown out of any talks with Latin America because they can’t reach an agreement on the drug war. For any one who knows the history of America it’s shocking to see them get thrown out of there own back yard. America never use to worry because they would just overthrow governments but this is totally reversed now. It began as a reaction to neoliberal policy and now Latin America is slowly pulling themselves out. This reaction is global but it takes different forms in different places.

                      Immigration has become a monstrous tool of aggression. It’s not that immigrants want to flee they can’t afford to live isn’t there own countries. There are countries that absorb immigrants and refugees and there are countries that make them and New Zealand makes them contrary to popular belief. The Iraq war which we participated in 3 times destroyed Iraq created 2 million refugees and they’re still fleeing, same as in Afghanistan and now we are magnanimously rebuilding capabilities in those regions and now we are going to except immigrants on the bases of skill. The nature of people under duress and working people have a hard time is easy to rind reason but not the true reason because it makes initiative sense because they’re taking our jobs. In fact they’re not, they’re taking jobs nobody wants to take. The economic benefits are subtle but what is seen is they’re working and I’m not, it must be there fault. It’s easy for political figures and the trump types to turn this into something that looks plausible. It’s much worse in Europe, Iv always thought Europe was much more racist than the US, it doesn’t show up as much in Europe because European tend to be homogeneous. So when every one is blond blue eyed you can say but where not racist. But as soon as you get a tinny percent of the population that deviates hen all of a sudden it all comes out in extremely ugly ways. The solution requires those with the whip to apologise and pay reparations and I think that is generalised across the globe.

                      Technology is kind of neutral. Social media can organise activities and that’s good. On the other hand when I walk around and see young people stuck to their iPhone having superficial conversations I don’t think that is a good thing, it’s an atomised society and that’s apart of neoliberal ideology, you’re in it for yourself, others can fend for themselves but I’m for me. That’s so called market ideology, social media has a tendency to magnify that. Technology can enable or diminish the character of life.

                      I’ll end with this from Tyler Durden:http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-03-02/capitalism-requires-world-war?page=1

                      “If Capitalism could speak, she would ask her older brother, Imperialism, this: “Can you solve the problem?” We are not reliving the 1930’s, the economy is now an integrated whole that encompasses the entire World. Capital has been accumulating since 1945, so under- and unemployment is a plague everywhere. How big is the problem? Official data tells us nothing, but the 47 million Americans on food aid are suggestive. That’s 1 in 7 Americans and total World population is 7 billion.

                      The scale of the solution is dangerous. Our probing for weakness in the South China Sea, Ukraine and Syria has awakened them to their danger.The Chinese and Russian leadership reacted by integrating their payment systems and real economies, trading energy for manufactured goods for advanced weapon systems. As they are central players in the Shanghai Group we can assume their aim is the monetary system which is the bedrock of our Imperial power. What’s worse, they can avoid overt enemy action and simply choose to undermine “confidence” in the FIAT.

                      Though given the calibre of their nuclear arsenal, how can they be fought let alone defeated? Appetite preceded Reason, so Lust is hard to Reason with. But beware brother. Your Lust for Power began this saga, perhaps it’s time to Reason.”

                  • simbit

                    He’ll, what’s OAB doing that’s so wrong? Ad-hom attacks? Mockery?

                • …the liberals are now proving themselves to be the most illiberal and authoritarian of all. They want alt-news sites shut down. They want systems of censorship (“fact checking”) to prevent dissenting opinions being voiced.

                  1. You don’t seem to know what “liberal” means.
                  2. You don’t seem to know what “authoritarian” or “censorship” mean, because you’re equating a few activist hand-wringers bleating about the alt-right with the actual censorship practiced by actual authoritarian governments.

                  • Clump_AKA Sam

                    All this is barley mentionable because it bears no relation to its founding doctrine

                • JonL

                  “They want alt-news sites shut down. They want systems of censorship (“fact checking”) to prevent dissenting opinions being voiced. They want approved mainstream corporate media exalted without any competing voices.

                  Further, left wing “liberals” (like Krugman) are the ones with MSM pedestals regularly exercising their “minute of hate” against Trump and his supporters.”

                  ….and why would you think these people are liberal? Despite what they may think of themselves, I’d see people like this as most illiberal, if not just more of the authoritarian ilk!
                  ….unless they are Liberals, in which case that goes with the title!

      • Siobhan 1.1.2

        I was talking about their relationships with Wasserman Schultz, Donna Brazile and, Goldman Sachs…such a list… you know, all the things you and the DNC would like to politely ignore so there’s probably no point in going over it ad infinitum..I would have thought ‘Wikileaks’ would have been more pertinent than your RT reference, but, whatever.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.2.1

          Speaking of Wikileaks, I read the awfully terrible emails. Can you point me to the smoking gun?

          I even read Clinton’s speeches to Goldman Sachs. Perhaps my English language comprehension skills are lacking.

          • Siobhan 1.1.2.1.1

            Not the speaches OAB…How about all Obamas, and Hilarys policies and staff, do ya think this might be an issue…

            http://www.nachumlist.com/goldmansachsobama.htm

            • Clump_AKA Sam 1.1.2.1.1.1

              The most shocking wiki leaks was Saudi interests funding Killary and ISIS.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                Is that because you are mistaking her for a foundation with her name or can you back that up?

                • Colonial Viper

                  Friends of Bill got special priority through the State Department

                  Americans saw through the corrupt Clinton pay for play scheme. Not to mention the Clintons taking nice holidays on Clinton Foundation resources and cash.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    The allegation is that the Saudis fund, or funded, Hillary Clinton. Do you have anything substantive to say about that or are you just going to keep on parroting propaganda?

                    [Now that I have your attention. See here and see here. Capiche?] – Bill

          • Colonial Viper 1.1.2.1.2

            Speaking of Wikileaks, I read the awfully terrible emails. Can you point me to the smoking gun?

            Oh wow, so no real serious material in those ***leaked*** (not hacked) emails?

            Funny, because the Clinton Camp has been claiming that they were powerful enough to lose her the presidency.

            PS I think the emails describing the Clinton Campaign strategy to deliberately “elevate” Trump (and Cruz and Carson) in the MSM were pretty good.

            That bit them in the arse.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.2.1.2.1

              Yawn. So many assertions, so little credibility.

              [Dropping you in auto mod until you acknowledge the moderation made above about the level of your interaction here today and modify your behaviour appropriately] – Bill

              • Clump_AKA Sam

                Hillary her self gave it credibility when she declared that they are all her documents. The assumption at the time was that she had scrubbed her servers.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  So the assumption was wrong, and I’d still like to know what is in the actual emails that is so very damning, compared to say, “grab them by the pussy”.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                I will tone down the tenor of my sincerely held contempt for and hostility towards this particular commenter by simply not engaging with their provocative persistent destructive trolling any more.

                [Here’s the thing about your contempt. I couldn’t give a monkey’s flying fuck about it. This is meant to be a forum revolving around political ideas and thoughts, not some fucking message board displaying personal gripes and likes] – Bill

        • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.2.2

          I note that the Orange Uberlugenfarter has also got GS links.

      • Morrissey 1.1.3

        I’m sorry to have to say that, as always, my friend, you’re out of your depth.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.3.1

          I’m not in the least bit sorry to say that I value your opinion very much indeed. It’s so valuable I’m convinced there’s a market for it somewhere. Keep on marketing yourself and I’m sure everything will work out for you.

  2. mike 2

    Thank you for including the link to the intelligence report PDF. Otherwise your sneering reportage may have given me a completely wrong understanding of what was in it. When it comes to ‘an endless stream of innuendo, banality and opinionated assertion’ look to yourself.

    • Bill 2.1

      You got anything beyond ad-hom there mike?

      Stick to the content of the post or desist from commenting on this post or, third option, continue with the pointlessness and pick up a ban. You choose.

    • Olwyn 2.2

      Did you read the PDF yourself? I did, and could hardly believe that it was written and released by adults with important jobs. When Intelligence Community analysts use words such as “we assess” or “we judge,” they are conveying an analytic assessment or judgment. it tells us. Then you read on, and learn that there is some Eastern European person or group called Gucifer who might be Russian and hence might be linked to Putin. Then there is a lot of guff about what Putin said, and the kind of thing you might see on RT – general, predictable opinions that can hardly rely on hacked material. Sooo, Putin must have done it because…he doesn’t always agree with us and he says as much publicly and that’s not fair….

      There is more rigour in a note pinned to a door asking someone-or-other to please stop feeding someone else’s cat.

      • Bill 2.2.1

        Except with the cat thing, there actually is a cat… 😉

        • Olwyn 2.2.1.1

          Justified confidence that there really is a cat is one of the ways in which “more rigour” goes into the note. 🙂

          • Anne 2.2.1.1.1

            So we can get the important question of the cat sorted, one must be open to further possibilities such as… the cat being fed might actually be stealing the cat food that belong’s to the ‘noted’ one’s cat. In which case it is incumbent on the owner of the cat doing the stealing to take measures to ensure their cat/cats stop stealing what belongs to someone else. 😕 ?

            • Olwyn 2.2.1.1.1.1

              Anne! I almost had to do a little diagram to follow your version of the cat story. 🙂 If you are using the cat to make an analogy with the hacking story, the first step is surely to show exactly what cat is doing the stealing. And there was nothing in the PDF Bill put up that convinced me that Russia was behind the hacked emails.

              The sooner the Democrat camp starts looking into what they did wrong rather than casting around for someone or something to blame, the better. In that respect Bernie has the right idea – become a strong, focused opposition rather than a sore loser.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                The report was authored by the Democrats???

                • Olwyn

                  Wasn’t Obama the guy who called for the report? And even if I have that detail wrong, they are certainly the people making the biggest song and dance about it.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    So far as I’m concerned, the thing politicians say carry very little weight.

                    The NSA and CIA, by comparison, are public servants.

                    Sun Tsu holds that spying is a humanitarian pursuit – it shortens wars and so forth. It involves deception, as does a boxer’s feint.

                    The Republicans are taking it seriously. I expect they have something to hide. After all, they took all that money from the NRA 😉

                    • Clump_AKA Sam

                      The quote Zsun Tsu made referred to resupply of your army assures it’s destruction

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      That’s as clear as mud, C_A_Sam.

                      In regards to resupply, Sun Tzu said (among other things)

                      Bring war material with you from home, but forage on the enemy. Thus the army will have food enough for its needs.

                      Whereas regarding the use of spies he said (among other things):

                      Hostile armies may face each other for years, striving for the victory which is decided in a single day. This being so, to remain in ignorance of the enemy’s condition simply because one grudges the outlay of a hundred ounces of silver in honours and emoluments, is the height of inhumanity.

                      Please expand on your comment.

                    • Clump_AKA Sam

                      Thats a neat discription of sanctions you have there

              • Anne

                If you are using the cat to make an analogy with the hacking story,…

                Guilty as charged.

                Here’s my take – simplistic though it may be:

                AMERICA – if you want us ordinary folk to believe that the Russians were responsible for the hacking (bearing in mind somebody was and whoever it was… was targeting the Democrats and Hillary Clinton) then front up with the proof! None of this you’ve got to believe us blah blah… SHOW US THE MONEY as they say.

                RUSSIA -If you want us to believe you are an innocent party and that you have no knowledge of the identities responsible for the hacking then demonstrate your innocence. We’re not stupid. Issuing press statements denying your involvement is not good enough. Front up and show you are genuine in your denials.

                In other words: imv, neither side can be trusted.

  3. Adrian Thornton 3

    Glenn Greenwald Democracy Now yesterday re; leaks,Russian Wikileaks DNC etc…enough said…

    https://www.democracynow.org/2017/1/5/glenn_greenwald_on_dearth_of_evidence

  4. One Two 4

    The contrived accusations won’t vanish
    Diplomatically it’s disastrous for The USA

    When such a farce erupts, inevitably it’s a cover for other events

    • Clump_AKA Sam 4.1

      Russia’s reach isn’t as far as Cold War relics think it is. Threats are manufactured for intervention in our own domains, not Russia.

    • Bill 4.2

      You’re right that they won’t vanish. But on the diplomacy front…well, we know that Trump wants rapprochement with Russia. Leaving aside how he might do that given his other statements on Israel and Iran, I’d say it’s a safe bet that most Democrats and most Republicans have bought into this Russia nonsense and all it entails in terms of retaliation .

      So how does he (Trump) shift the US Congress and Senate away from its present belligerence? And, maybe something for the entrenched liberal establishment to mull over, since most US citizens simply don’t believe that Russia influenced anything, then how is that beleaguered establishment thinking it’s going to play out its opposition to Trump’s public statements towards Russia if ‘half’ of the people in the US are actually quite sympathetic to it or, if not sympathetic, at least downright cynical about the establishment’s take on stuff?

      • Clump_AKA Sam 4.2.1

        Trumps response to decent is to raise taxes on (insert babbling CEO name here) which he can do at a stroke of a pen, bye passing congress ect.

  5. greywarshark 5

    I can’t comment on the politics and propaganda – amazing Revelations! /sarc

    I am concerned about the toilet paper on the floor though. Is it safe to reroll and use it under health and safety guidelines? And ‘What about the children’? I understand this is the classic finale to every concerned comment from the easily distracted.

    • Once was and others etc 5.1

      Better to flush the bloody lot and install a bidet….
      In fact I reckon a high pressure jet of cold water up the jacksie might just give a few egos the shot they need.

      • Once was and others etc 5.1.1

        The who;e debate above reminds me of this:

        but then I’m a bit weird

        bullshits and jellybeans and egos and opinions.

        Actually a bloody good dowsing that goes further than the arsehole might not be such a bad idea.
        Unfortunately though, those with the resources (such as the fire brigade) rely on volunteers, and you can take your chances with the ambulance service if that shot of cold water causes a catostrophic eminer

  6. ian 6

    If I were in the States, I’d be particularly concerned about how much time was spent on RT America in that report. They labelled it ‘propaganda’, which is an unusually emotive word to appear in such a serious report. Regardless of where it came from, RT provided an alternative view.

    And don’t even get me started on US propaganda. There is no way that the business-oriented financial capitalism of the type seen over there has been kept in place for so long on its own merits.

    • They labelled it ‘propaganda’…

      It’s the Russian equivalent of Voice of America, ie a propaganda service of its patron government, so what other label would be more appropriate?

      • Colonial Viper 6.1.1

        Excellent RT discussion panel on different views of the Russia hacking noise out of the US. Featuring Americans no less, including a spokes person from the Ron Paul institute. (No doubt a Russian agent eh).

        • Bill 6.1.1.1

          I wouldn’t have called it ‘excellent’, but I’d watched before and came away (in no particular order) laughing at the animation of the Trotsky look-alike and thinking that the guy in the middle had it about right. Ignore his “17 intelligence Agencies say” stuff. The fact is that the congress and the senate is packed to the gunnels with people who believe the guff about Russia. And that (not any evidence or lack thereof) is what will determine how the US moves forward.

          It’s like the clowns became the ringmasters and the lunatics took over the asylum. (Assign whichever scenario to the senate and congress according to your preference)

        • Psycho Milt 6.1.1.2

          So, RT runs a discussion panel that endorses the Russian government’s view of this, and you present it as evidence RT isn’t a propaganda service of the Russian government. I guess it makes no less sense than most of your comments.

          [Leave out the ad homs. Only warning] – Bill

      • ian 6.1.2

        It’s entirely appropriate, it’s just interesting that the Intelligence Communities take exception to it when it is simply “hilighting criticisims of US democracy and civil liberties”. I guess this is just the latest example of what’s been called ‘American exceptionalism’ where it’s OK if America does it, not so good if it’s you. What RT America does is not very much different from the domestic offering produced by media outlets owned by the business-oriented financial capitalism and that is presented by multi-millionaire editors and newsreaders. It’s just got a different light on it. They’re not exactly going to be pushing the barrow for, frinstance, the unions or the working poor. It is simply pro-business propaganda.

        • Psycho Milt 6.1.2.1

          What RT America does is not very much different from the domestic offering produced by media outlets owned by the business-oriented financial capitalism…

          It’s only “not very much different” if you ignore the fact that RT America is a propaganda service of the Russian government – but yeah, if we ignore that important difference they’re not very much different at all.

          • Colonial Viper 6.1.2.1.1

            RT America is an excellent alternative media source based in the USA, with US anchors, interviewing US based media personalities. Having said that RT America has a very limited reach, I doubt its viewership is more than 1M or so in the USA.

            McAffee analyses inconsistencies in FBI Russia hacking report:

            • Bill 6.1.2.1.1.1

              No, no. Common sense will. not. be given oxygen and will. not. prevail. How dare you post such a link CV!

            • Psycho Milt 6.1.2.1.1.2

              Astonishing! The independent journalists of RT find that the Russian government has it exactly right.

              Mcafee has been giving the impression of being a few sandwiches short of a picnic for a while now. Some actual common sense on the subject can be found here.

              • Bill

                Erm. I believe the claim being made by McAfee (not any RT journalist) is that the US government has it wrong. The Russian government hasn’t made any allegations. Not as far as I know.

                Anyway. To repeat what I said to OAB on the other thread – if you’re saying that McAfee knows nothing about fuck all and has this wrong then engage and present your case. But to just flippantly suggest he’s insane and so therefore ought to be ignored and/or dismissed is just dog-shit.

            • ian 6.1.2.1.1.3

              According to the Intelligence Community’s report, RT America’s YouTube channel (which is English speaking) has had more than 800 million views.

              • Colonial Viper

                Thanks for that ian. I was more referring to viewership (i.e. individual people) rather than the total times that their various videos have been viewed. Looking on RT America’s youtube page I see they have about 400,000 subscribers and 1.4M video views so far.

                The “IC” may have added in the number of views of RT’s other youtube channels (including their main international channel) to get to their 800M total views.

                • ian

                  NP, CV.
                  The channel statistics are a bit misleading. Did you check the ‘about’ pages of the channels? Just to confuse matters, the shows that are broadcast to American audiences also have their own channels and perform thusly:

                  RT America:
                  404, 920 subscribers
                  192,408,136 views
                  source: https://www.youtube.com/user/RTAmerica/about

                  Redacted Tonight:
                  121,113 subscribers
                  13,803,197 views

                  Boom Bust:
                  27,364 subscribers
                  5,652,923 views

                  The Big Picture:
                  120,183 subscribers
                  32,836,155 views

                  Breaking The Set:
                  164,197 subscribers
                  35,118,115 views

                  etc etc etc

                  Interestingly, the main RT channel boasts 2 million subscribers, and more than 1.8 billion views.

                  Similarly-subversive channel The Young Turks have more than 3 million subscribers and 3.251 billion views of their own.

                  So there certainly is the appetite for non-MSM views.

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Cheers ian. I see what you are getting at.

                    Lionel from Lionel Media recently pointed out that if the Deep State was unhappy with RT’s spreading of “propaganda” they really should stop referring to it and increasing its profile on a daily basis. The irony.

  7. Tony Veitch (not the partner-bashing 3rd rate broadcaster 7

    Well, I’ve just read the report in the link above and all I can say is – the US intelligence service have not let facts get in the way of a bad argument!

    What a load of waffly crap and surmises! There doesn’t appear to be a shred of real evidence linking Russia to the DNC email hacking!

    I also find it deliciously ironic that the US is upset that another country may have the unmitigated gall to interfere in its affairs! As if the US has never done anything like that!

    • ian 7.1

      “The CIA complaining about a right-wing president being installed by a foreign power might be the funniest thing that has ever happened.”

      • Gabby 7.1.1

        The cia may very well have been keeping an eye on the international doings of citizen chump over the years.

    • Bill 7.2

      I also find it deliciously ironic that the US is upset that another country may have the unmitigated gall to interfere in its affairs! As if the US has never done anything like that!

      I suspect this list isn’t exhaustive. (Lifted from the comments section under an article in ‘The Independent’

      Instances of the United States overthrowing, or attempting to overthrow, a foreign government since the Second World War. (* indicates successful ouster of a government)

      China 1949 to early 1960s
      Albania 1949-53
      East Germany 1950s
      Iran 1953 *
      Guatemala 1954 *
      Costa Rica mid-1950s
      Syria 1956-7
      Egypt 1957
      Indonesia 1957-8
      British Guiana 1953-64 *
      Iraq 1963 *
      North Vietnam 1945-73
      Cambodia 1955-70 *
      Laos 1958 *, 1959 *, 1960 *
      Ecuador 1960-63 *
      Congo 1960 *
      France 1965
      Brazil 1962-64 *
      Dominican Republic 1963 *
      Cuba 1959 to present
      Bolivia 1964 *
      Indonesia 1965 *
      Ghana 1966 *
      Chile 1964-73 *
      Greece 1967 *
      Costa Rica 1970-71
      Bolivia 1971 *
      Australia 1973-75 *
      Angola 1975, 1980s
      Zaire 1975
      Portugal 1974-76 *
      Jamaica 1976-80 *
      Seychelles 1979-81
      Chad 1981-82 *
      Grenada 1983 *
      South Yemen 1982-84
      Suriname 1982-84
      Fiji 1987 *
      Libya 1980s
      Nicaragua 1981-90 *
      Panama 1989 *
      Bulgaria 1990 *
      Albania 1991 *
      Iraq 1991
      Afghanistan 1980s *
      Somalia 1993
      Yugoslavia 1999-2000 *
      Ecuador 2000 *
      Afghanistan 2001 *
      Venezuela 2002 *
      Iraq 2003 *
      Haiti 2004 *
      Somalia 2007 to present
      Honduras 2009
      Libya 2011 *
      Syria 2012
      Ukraine 2014 *

      • Whispering Kate 7.2.1

        Bill you missed out on when the David Lange Government was messed about by the US trying to destablize us. Maybe we are not considered significant enough by the US press considering there are many over there who haven’t any idea where we are in the world or that we exist.

  8. Ovid 8

    Do you remember how three years ago we were all so very upset about dirty politics?

    Guess not.

    • weka 8.1

      what’s your point Ovid?

      • Red 8.1.1

        I am guessing his point irrespective of what you think of Hilary and DNC there has been some dirty politics going on but it appears it only matters if it happens to the other side

      • Ovid 8.1.2

        My point is I see some parallels between Moscow’s efforts to delegitimise the political discourse in the United States on behalf of the alt-right and Slater & Co’s efforts to disparage their political enemies in NZ.

        Neither effort is a case of stealing an election. But it is a case of a concerted effort to frame the discourse outside of normal conventions. Such as the convention against making stuff up. This isn’t a case of boo-hoo the Establishment’s fee-fees have an owie. This is a case of surrogates – in one case Slater, the other Russia – using dirty techniques to sling mud on behalf of the parties they support. But in Russia’s case they have far more resources at their disposal and stand to gain far more from victory.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 8.1.2.1

          Well said.

        • weka 8.1.2.2

          thanks Ovid.

        • Andre 8.1.2.3

          Ovid, thank you for bringing some concise clarity to what this is about.

          • Clump_AKA Sam 8.1.2.3.1

            Allegations of Russian hacks didn’t come from the NSA/CIA they came from Hillary. The CIA hand balled it to the FBI who released conflicting reports of imininant arrest because Hillary kept state secretes in her bathroom toilet which is a crime punishable by death

          • Xanthe 8.1.2.3.2

            Really ?? Andre?….. !

        • Xanthe 8.1.2.4

          Thats crap ovid,
          True information that the american public needed to properly excercise their democratic responisbilities was published… and no evidence linking it to russia has been cited…. And no one has suggested it was not true info

          How is that in any way “parallel” to slaters efforts? Thats just misleading, bullshit, spin

        • Sabine 8.1.2.5

          well said.

        • Bill 8.1.2.6

          What specific efforts to delegitimise ‘the political discourse’ in the US did Russia make? Did Russia set the narratives around Trump and Clinton? Well, hardly.

          Does the US not have news outlets like CNN, NBC, Fox, Washington Post, New York Times to set and promote whatever discussion they prefer and whatever basis they choose?

          As for this mythical convention against making stuff up…I guess no-one has told the Washington Post about that one. According to Glen Greenwald

          On November 24th, (The Washington Post) claimed, based on a newly formed anonymous group, that there has been a very widespread, successful effort to implant Kremlin propaganda in the American discourse.

          And that Vladimir Putin and Russia had hacked into the electric grid of the United States through a Vermont utility,

          There is not one iota of evidence pointing to Russia doing anything untoward in relation to the US election. Nothing. (Fuck, did you even read the report this post is about?)

          • One Anonymous Bloke 8.1.2.6.1

            Not one iota. None whatsoever. Nothing to see here at all.

            I’d surprised if it weren’t happening.

            Rule a great nation as you would cook a delicate fish. Lao Tsu.

            • Bill 8.1.2.6.1.1

              See. That’s the thing about putting up links accompanied with nothing but misleading, smart arse one liners – you waste people’s time.

              That link begins … THE only public evidence that the Russian government was responsible for hacks of the DNC and key Democratic figures has been circumstantial and far short of conclusive, courtesy of private research firms with a financial stake in such claims.

              Now, it just might have escaped your notice OAB, but the entire post I put up is about supposed evidence (lack of) pertaining to Russian hacking around last year’s US Presidential election.

              That link (you’ve ‘provided’ it before) merely serves to underscore the point that US Intelligence got nuffin. All that historical stuff points very much to their capabilities on the detection end of things. Meaning that if Russia had been hacking the Democrats or doing anything else that’s been implied or claimed, then the fucking evidence would be there and able to be made public – whether in full or redacted form is for another discussion.

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                No, Bill, they don’t have nuffink. If they had nuffink Republicans wouldn’t be calling for an inquiry, and the Snowden document would not exist.

                Whether you like it or not, circumstantial evidence is evidence.

                If I had to quantify it I’d say I’m 33% confident in the NSA/CIA narrative, and minus 100% confident in the “buildings that are hit by passenger aircraft can’t possibly fall down” crew and their bullshit.

                Make of that what you will.

                • Clump_AKA Sam

                  If the America wanted to be mad about hacking, they could have pointed to the adresses of all US public servants Russia stole early last year.

                • Bill

                  The Snowden document would exist whether allegations had been made or not.

                  Is the Republican Party calling for an inquiry even though Obama called for a report on Dec 9th that’s just been published? You got a link or something?

                  Circumstantial evidence is more suspicion with degrees of likelihood than evidence. Question. Why would a simple phishing scam require the involvement of any state? And what in the world leads anyone to believe that only a state actor would wish to gain entry to the Democratic Party emails? (That was the basic premise of one of the talking heads from one of the agencies – can’t remember which one)

                  As your link makes abundantly clear (the Snowden doc) hard evidence would be in the possession of the NSA if Russia had been up to anything. So where is it?

                  Meanwhile, a 33% confidence rating is way down there in terms of certainty. And yet you incessantly bang the drum of ‘official narrative’ in your comments. Odd.

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    Already linked it. Here it is again.

                    So where is it?

                    Greenwald pointed out the potential fishhooks involved in providing that info. Others note that the public servants involved are tasked with providing information to their government. Who then decides what to do with it.

                    Do you think it would be appropriate for spies to simply issue press releases instead of briefings? What would you think of a spy who behaved that way? Incompetent? Treacherous?

                    As for banging the drum, I prefer to discuss the actual failings of [insert political party of your choice] rather than the propaganda some megaphone read on the interwebz.

                    • Bill

                      Obama called for a report on the 9th and some Republicans were calling for an inquiry on the 12th. Are they still wanting one? Or are they satisfied with that “Simple Simon Says” hash of a report?

                      I’d quite like to see one btw.

                      As for the fish hooks. I’m thinking it’s more than likely the case that any surveillance techniques they might have to reveal have already been revealed by Snowden. Therefore they’ve nothing to reveal.

                      You want to play cute with who should release info means you think the report I linked to was Intelligence Agencies overstepping bounds then?

                      Failings of parties. Got to blow away this smokescreen the Democrats have propagated before we’ll see that happening. Meaning, it’s probably not going to happen. I mean, you or I or who-ever can discuss and debate it, but it won’t enter mainstream discourse. The line is and will remain that everything’s fine and dinky and as before – except for those pesky Ruskies (and Trump).

                  • One Anonymous Bloke

                    PS: 33 is 133 above -100.

        • emergency mike 8.1.2.7

          Your comment doesn’t address Bill’s point about a lack of evidence. The evidence against Slater was clear, against Russia it isn’t. Putin said things we don’t like and RT said things we don’t like won’t cut it. I’m not sure what pointing out that x doing dirty politics and y doing dirty politics both have something in common achieves.

          What if Russia is guilty as sin? Look at Bill’s list a few comments above. The USA has been using their considerable resources to interfere in leadership decisions all over the world as a matter of course. We’re all supposed to grab a star spangled banner when some other country that’s too big to be pushed around decides to stick their finger in the USA’s election pie? No it’s not OK, but major players have been playing dirty since forever. USA plays dirty, Russia plays dirty, China plays dirty, UK plays dirty, etc. It’s not news.

          Until there is evidence I see parallels with Bush and Blair going on about Saddam’s WMDs, and with cold war ear gossip, leaks, official announcements, and ‘Reds under the bed’ scaremongering. Whether it’s true or not what is for sure is that the people who are going on about this and keeping it in the limelight, do so not from patriotism, but for their own agenda and self-interest.

        • One Two 8.1.2.8

          Face value ‘simplicity’ is unlikely to be the ‘truth’

          Many variables and actors involved on levels not decernable to the naked eye

          Putting it another way…

          Those comments believing in ‘who’, can only offer speculation about ‘why’…

          The ‘how’ will not be understood by commentators (complex security angles), which makes ‘what’ , nothing more than a myth…

          Never happened!

  9. Andre 9

    Interesting commentary on the whole clusterfuck here. Seems we now have “hack truthers” as a new category.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/01/06/how-the-u-s-enabled-russian-hack-truthers.html

  10. NZJester 10

    I get most of my US news coverage from TYT. They have been trying to get people in the US to sign up with wolf-pac.com and get money out of politics, or legal bribery as they rightfully call it. National with their cabinet club events have been practicing legal bribery in New Zealand as well. So much so-called anonymous donations received at those events.
    We need to get the money out of politics here and stop all the legal bribery we have here also.

    • Clump_AKA Sam 10.1

      Reform and Revolution are one and the same. For revolution to be successful the majority must be convinced that reform is impossible with in current institutions and not before. Transforming political structures will be bloodless because instead of using guns to take objectives we are using laptops.

  11. emergency mike 11

    You know your democracy is in a bad state when a broadcaster giving airtime to 3rd party candidates is supporting evidence for an effort to subvert democracy.

  12. NewsFlash 12

    I really don’t know what the argument is about, just watched the news and Putin publicly admitted “ordering the hacks to interfere with the US election”.

    It can’t be anymore cut and dry than that, sorry, all you Trump fans.

    • Bill 12.1

      Link. And btw, what the fuck does support or non-support of Trump have to do with any of it?

      • NewsFlash 12.1.1

        Trump was voted in with one out of five eligible votes, not a lot of support in any measure.

        • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.1

          He won the most votes in the most states. That’s what counts, constitutionally. As for Hillary Clinton, she can be President of California. Without that one state she slides straight back into a popular vote loss.

          • NewsFlash 12.1.1.1.1

            http://www.lowellsun.com/opinion/ci_30697144/predictions-you-can-take-bank-2017

            Putin admits ordering hacks, after all Trump asked him (publicly) to do this on multiple occasions, hardly the behaviour of a competent, diplomatic leader of the once free world.

            • Colonial Viper 12.1.1.1.1.1

              Why are you spreading false news? Firstly, Putin never said any such thing. Secondly the Russian Federation doesn’t take orders from Donny Tiny Hands.

              • NewsFlash

                Don’t mis quote, secondly, Trump has accepted the fact that Putin ordered the hacking, thirdly, you’re the only one spreading false news.

                Try to keep up with current news around the world, it makes you look silly when you say shit that isn’t correct.

  13. Ethica 14

    Fascinating. The role of Tokelau and incidentally NZ in the hacking

    https://michaeljfield.tumblr.com/post/155409123408/nz-and-the-hacking-link-tokelau

  14. infused 15

    its hard being right all the time

  15. jcuknz 16

    After all that I would simply say “If I was american I would not have voted for Clinton ..Her voice when she got excited … horrible”
    I made that choice right at the beginning of the campaign first time I heard her.
    Bit like when I heard the Aussie PM of years ago when he spoke [like an Aussie 🙂 ]
    I had a second reason but that is family and personal 🙂

  16. One Anonymous Bloke 17

    I take it all back: the whole story is obviously bollocks:

    …Trump accepts the US intelligence community’s conclusion that Russia engaged in cyber attacks aimed at disrupting the presidential election…

    • Bill 17.1

      As Burton points out below, it seems that not a single other scenario was looked at. In other words, just like with WMD, it seems the Intelligence Community has had a theory and then set out to find evidence that will fit that theory.

      Then there’s the obvious point from the article you link to (I’d have thought it to be obvious anyway) that Russia isn’t the Russian government. I mean, if IP addresses or whatever had pointed to NZ, would you entertain, even for just one second, a claim that the NZ Government had orchestrated shit?

      So where we at? Russian TV programmes aired in the US. Some e-mails were put into the public domain. And…
      …well, that’s about it as far as I can tell.

      The only hullabaloo is about who might have gotten their hands on the emails in the first place. Many potential sources for a hack or a leak or whatever, but only one possibility investigated.

  17. Burton 18

    There is no mention in this report of there being the remotest possibility of this being a leak from within the DNC. Did they just rule out this theory? A British diplomat claims to know who leaked the info. No mention at all in the report.
    Intelligence Community you FAIL!

    • One Anonymous Bloke 18.1

      A British diplomat claims to know who leaked the info

      [citation needed]

      iirc he claimed to know the identity of the bagman, which isn’t the same thing. Can you back up your assertion?

  18. adam 19

    Hey Bill —

    best tweet about report, and funniest observation on report. It’s a sad joke.

    • Bill 19.1

      Thanks Adam. That is kind of…brilliant. Quite a few sharp observations in the comments…which isn’t bad seeing as how it’s obviously a pile of Putinbots or Kremlin trolls talking up their side in a second language. Or…could it be….?

      Anyway. For anyone still popping into this thread that whole twitter thread is well worth the read.

      • adam 19.1.1

        More from Abby, she directed me to look at one her older shows. It would appear that the Muppet John Podesta who got hacked, did this.

        user name — jpodesta
        Password — p@ssw0rd

        I could have hacked him, My 5 year old niece could have hacked him. This is a sick bloody joke.

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  • The cost of a range clearance.
    It has been revealed that firing ranges used by the NZDF while deployed to the Provincial Reconstruction Team (PRT) in Bamyan Province, Afghanistan, contained unexploded ordnance that caused numerous deaths and injuries after the NZDF withdrew the PRT in April 2013. In 2014 seven children were killed when an unidentified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    21 mins ago
  • Still denying responsibility
    Stuff's story on NZDF's negligence around its Afghan firing ranges has produced a result, with a commitment from the Prime Minister for an urgent cleanup. But this doesn't mean NZDF is accepting responsibility for the deaths and injuries that have occured - they're still refusing compensation. Which given that the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    21 hours ago
  • A corrupt practice
    Last week RNZ broke the news on NZ First's mysterious "foundation" and its dodgy-looking loans. The arrangement seemed to be designed to evade the transparency requirements of the Electoral Act, by laundering donations. But now Stuff has acquired some of their financial records, and it gone from dodgy to outright ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    22 hours ago
  • Democracy “A Bit Bonkers” – Thoughts Inspired By Lizzie Marvelly’s Latest Co...
    Didn't See It Coming: NZ Herald columnist Lizzie Marvelly's latest column merits serious scrutiny because such a clear example of anti-democratic thinking is encountered only rarely on the pages of the daily press. Which is not to say that the elitism which lies at the heart of such social disparagement ...
    24 hours ago
  • Colombia: historic memory, massacres and the military
    by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh Initially it was reported that in an aerial bombardment that took place on August 30th seven children were massacred; the figure then went up to eight and then on November 11th Noticias Uno reported that, according to people from the community in close proximity to the ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 day ago
  • Corruption as usual
    Next year is an election year, and Labour needs money to fund its campaign. So naturally, they're selling access:Labour is charging wealthy business figures $1500-a-head to lunch with Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern at its annual conference later this month. [...] On the weekend beginning November 29th, around 800 delegates will ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Fairer rentals
    Yesterday the government announced its changes to tenancy laws, including an end to no-cause evictions, limits on rent increases, and anonyminity for tenants who defend their rights against bad landlords (sadly necessary because landlords are scum who maintain blacklists of "uppity" tenants). They're all good moves, and have resulted in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • Another NZDF coverup
    In 2003 New Zealand sent a Provincial Reconstruction Team to Afghanistan to support America's doomed war there. While there, they conducted regular weapons practice on local firing ranges, littering the landscape with unexploded ammunition. These ranges weren't secure - they're on land used by locals for animal herding - so ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • A loss for the Greens
    Green MP Gareth Hughes has announced he will retire at the election. Its understandable - he's been there ten years, and wants to actually see his children grow up rather than miss it while drowning in the toxic parliamentary sewer. But his departure is also a huge loss for the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 days ago
  • New era for Ngāti Kuri and Auckland Museum
    Words and images by Jacqui Gibson Gone are Auckland Museum’s days of doing science using a museum-centric academic approach, after Māori land rights holders Ngāti Kuri gave the museum an ultimatum.
    Tom Trnski holding a fossilised whale tooth from the Far North.Aussie-born Head of Natural Sciences at Auckland Museum ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 days ago
  • Circling vultures: Why MediaWorks TV is really in trouble
    MediaWorks announced in October 2019 that it intended to sell off its struggling television business and cancel or cut back on several popular local programmes, including New Zealand Today, Married at First Sight New Zealand and 7 Days. Its radio and outdoor advertising arms are currently performing well, but MediaWorks’ ...
    Briefing PapersBy Peter Thompson
    2 days ago
  • Scary Opinium Poll
    Westminster voting intention:CON: 44% (+3)LAB: 28% (-1)LDEM: 14% (-1)BREX: 6% (-)via @OpiniumResearch, surveyed this weekChgs. w/ 08 Nov— Britain Elects (@britainelects) 16 November 2019 This, of course, doesn't look good.  Labour have been chucking big, headline grabbing policies left, right and centre ... Well, maybe not right.  Left, left ...
    3 days ago
  • A coward’s ploy.
    Some readers may remember that I mentioned last year that I was applying for NZ citizenship. I filled out the paperwork and had my original citizenship interview in February. Everything went well until they discovered that, because I had spent five months in the US in 2017, I had not ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    3 days ago
  • Left censorship and exclusion against gender-critical women: a Marxist critique
    by Deirdre O’Neill It is becoming quite acceptable for certain sections of the left to declare that people like me – women who are ‘gender critical’ – should not be allowed in leftist or anarchist spaces. Leaving aside the arrogance and implicit authoritarianism of this claim, its lack of critical ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    3 days ago
  • “Uncertainty” can be better solved with a better grasp of life’s inherent complexities…
    There is an article in The Conversation, written by Jeremy P. Shapiro (Adjunct Assistant Professor of Psychological Sciences, Case Western Reserve University), about what he sees as the psychologically-based underpinnings of three main matters that seem to vex people all around the planet. The article is titled “The Thinking ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    4 days ago
  • Citizens vs the Rogue Deep State
    . .   Blogger Martyn Bradbury has won his case against unreasonable search and surveillance against the NZ Police; and subsequent Police attempts to produce evidence in secrecy, in a closed Court. His case highlights a disturbing growing trend in Aotearoa New Zealand for State power to be used against ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    4 days ago
  • Massey University’s free speech policy double-plus-good
    The Committee of Disobedient Women has intercepted an email from Dr Emma Eejut, Senior Lecturer in Sociology, Massey University to the university’s Vice-Chancellor, Jan Thomas. Dear Jan, Thank you for your courageous move.  I think 10 pages of blether** should tie any of the students game enough to try holding ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    5 days ago
  • Unacceptable
    That's the only response to the findings of the Ombudsman's investigation into LGOIMA practices at the Christchurch City Council:My investigation identified serious concerns about the Council’s leadership and culture, and its commitment to openness and transparency. In particular, Council staff raised concerns with me about various methods employed by some ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • There is what corruption looks like
    NZ First seems to be nakedly trying to enrich itself from public office:A powerful New Zealand First figure helped establish a forestry company that then pushed for money from two key funding streams controlled by a New Zealand First Minister. An RNZ investigation has found Brian Henry, lawyer for Winston ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Escape from Manus Island
    Behrouz Boochani is an award winning author and journalist. He is also a refugee, who for the past six years has been detained in Australia's offshore gulag on Manus Island, and in Papua New Guinea. But last night, with the cooperation of the WORD Christchurch festival and Amnesty International, he ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • When World’s Collide.
    Different Strokes: If a multicultural immigration policy imposes no obligation on immigrant communities to acknowledge and ultimately embrace their host nation’s most cherished traditions and values, then how is that nation to prevent itself from being reduced to a collection of inward-looking and self-replicating ethnic and cultural enclaves?THE COALITION GOVERNMENT’S ...
    5 days ago
  • Could There Be Method In Massey University’s Madness?
    Protective Zone: Reading the rules and guidelines released by Massey University, it is impossible to avoid the conclusion that its governing body considers the whole concept of free speech a disruptive threat to the orderly imparting of orthodox academic knowledge.IN TRUE ORWELLIAN fashion, Massey University has announced its commitment to ...
    5 days ago
  • Climate Change: We need more trees, not less
    Farmers held a hate-march on Parliament today, complete with MAGA hats, gun-nut signs, and gendered insults. While supposedly about a grab-bag of issues - including, weirdly, mental health - it was clear that the protest was about one thing, and one thing only: climate change. And specifically, forestry "destroying" rural ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • The IGIS annual report: Dead letters and secret law
    The Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security released their annual report today, and I've been busy reading through it. In amongst the usual review of what they've been doing all year, there's a few interesting bits. For example, a discussion on "agency retention and disposal of information", which points out that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • A referendum on bigotry
    The End of Life Choice Bill passed its third reading last night, 69 - 51. Thanks to a compromise with NZ First - which looks to have been necessary on the final numbers - the commencement of the bill will be subject to a referendum. Given the ugliness of the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Political parties and GMOs: we all need to move on
    Recently more than 150 post-graduate students and young scientists presented an open letter to the Green Party via The Spinoff, encouraging them to reconsider their position on genetic modification. Their target is tackling climate change issues.[1] Can any party continue to be dismissive about genetic modification (GM) contributing to ...
    SciBlogsBy Grant Jacobs
    6 days ago
  • Class, Identity Politics and Transgender Ideology
    by Deirdre O’Neill Under Thatcher and then Blair and continuing up until our contemporary moment, the working class has seen its culture slowly and progressively destroyed. The change from an industrial society to a service society produced a marked shift in focus from the working class as the backbone of ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    7 days ago
  • Irony
    Since 2013, the Australian government has detained refugees without trial in Pacific gulags, where they are abused, tortured, and driven to suicide. The policy is not just an abuse of human rights and possible crime against humanity; it has also had a corrosive effect on the states Australia uses as ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • An age of protest.
    It seems fair to say that we currently live in a problematic political moment in world history. Democracies are in decline and dictatorships are on the rise. Primordial, sectarian and post-modern divisions have re-emerged, are on the rise or have been accentuated by political evolutions of the moment such as ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    7 days ago
  • Another captured agency
    Last month, Greenpeace head Russel Norman surrendered his speaking slot at an EPA conference to student climate activist Sorcha Carr, who told the EPA exactly what she thought of them. It was a bold move, which confronted both regulators and polluters (or, as the EPA calls them, "stakeholders") with the ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • NZ First’s dodgy loans
    The core principle supposedly underlying New Zealand's electoral finance regime is transparency: parties can accept large donations from rich people wanting to buy policy, but only if they tell the public they've been bought. Most parties abide by this, so we know that TOP was wholly-owned by Gareth Morgan, and ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • Member’s Day: The choice on End of Life Choice
    Today is a Member's Day, probably the second-to-last one of the year, and its a big one, with the Third Reading of David Seymour's End of Life Choice Bill. last Member's Day it was reported back from committee, after MPs voted narrowly to make it subject to a (rules TBA) ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • How growth in population and consumption drives planetary change
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz The growth of the human population over the last 70 ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    7 days ago
  • The disappearing Women …
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In her excellent oral submission to the Abortion reform select committee on 31st October on behalf of Otago University’s Department of Public Health, historian and public health researcher Hera Cook stated: “We would ask that the committee not use the term ‘pregnant persons’ and ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • “A Passage to India”: enduring art in changing times
    by Don Franks In 1957, E M Forster wrote, of his greatest work: “The India described in ‘A Passage to India’ no longer exists either politically or socially. Change had begun even at the time the book was published ( 1924) and during the following quarter of a century it ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Contemptuous
    The Referendums Framework Bill was due back from select committee today. But there's no report on it. Instead, the bill has been bounced back to the House under Standing order 29593) because the Committee didn't bother to produce one. They probably tried. But given the membership of the committee (which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Zero Carbon: It’s not just a good idea, it’s the law
    Two years into New Zealand’s Labour-led government, the long-delayed Zero Carbon Bill became law on 7 November. Passed essentially unanimously, the lengthy public debates and political manoeuvring faded away until the final passage was even anticlimactic: Flipping through the @nzstuff @DomPost I was starting to wonder if I’d dreamt ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: What happens next?
    Now the Zero Carbon Bill is law, what's next? Obviously, the ETS changes currently before select committee are going to be the next battleground. But we're also going to get a good idea of where we're going, and if the progress the Zero Carbon Act promises is good enough, during ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Climate change will fuel bush fires
    Grant Pearce The effects of the current Australian bushfires in New South Wales and Queensland (and also again in California) are devastating and far-reaching. To date, the fires have resulted in several lives being lost and many homes and properties destroyed. Here in New Zealand, the impacts have been only ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • Participation rates
    A passing comment in a post the other day about the labour force participation rates of older people prompted me to pull down the fuller data and see what we could see about various participation rates over the decades since the HLFS began in 1986.   As it happens, the ...
    SciBlogsBy Michael Reddell
    1 week ago
  • Not So Much “OK Boomer” As “OK Ruling Class”.
    Distract And Divert: The rise of what we have come to call “Identity Politics” represents the ideological manifestation of the ruling class’s objective need to destroy class politics, and of the middle-class’s subjective need to justify their participation in the process.THE RELIEF of the ruling class can only be imagined. ...
    1 week ago
  • Asking for it …
    "I saw a newspaper picture,From the political campaignA woman was kissing a child,Who was obviously in pain.She spills with compassion,As that young child'sFace in her hands she gripsCan you imagine all that greed and avariceComing down on that child's lips?" ...
    1 week ago
  • New Zealand’s Poor Pandemic Preparedness According to the Global Health Security Index
    Dr Matt Boyd, Prof Michael Baker, Prof Nick Wilson The Global Health Security Index which considers pandemic threats has just been published. Unfortunately, NZ scores approximately half marks (54/100), coming in 35th in the world rankings – far behind Australia. This poor result suggests that the NZ Government needs to ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: Thank Winston
    The Zero Carbon Act is inadequate, with a weak methane target designed to give farmers a free ride. But it turns out it could have been worse: Climate Change Minister James Shaw was so desperate to get National on board, he wanted to gut that target, and leave it in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Illicit markets and Bali Booze
    The Herald reprints an Australian story on a couple of tragic deaths in Bali from drinking cocktails that had methanol in them.  The story argues that methanol is likely the result of home distillation. But what the young tourists were experiencing was far from a hangover. They’d consumed a toxic cocktail ...
    SciBlogsBy Eric Crampton
    1 week ago
  • This is not what armed police are for
    Last month, the police announced a trial of specialist roaming armed units, which would drive round (poor, brown) areas in armoured SUVs, armed to the teeth. When they announced the trial, they told us it was about having armed police "ready to attend major incidents at any time if needed". ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Spain’s failed electoral gamble
    Spain went to the polls today in the second elections this year, after the Socialists (who had come to power in a confidence vote, then gone to the polls in April) rejected the offer of a coalition with the left-wing PoDemos, and instead decided to gamble n a better outcome ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • The astroturf party
    National has finally rolled out its "BlueGreen" astroturf party, fronted by an array of former nats and people who were dumped by the Greens for not being Green enough. Its initial pitch is described by Stuff as "very business-friendly", and its priorities are what you'd expect: conservation, predator-free funding, a ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • How to cheat at university
    A couple of days ago I attended (and spoke at) the University of Waikato’s “LearnFest” event. There were lots of talks and sessions on very diverse aspects of teaching, mostly at tertiary level. One was by Myra Williamson from Te Piringa Faculty of Law here at Waikato, on Contract Cheating ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    1 week ago
  • How NZ was put on world maps using a transit of Mercury
    There will be a transit of Mercury – the planet Mercury will pass across the face of the Sun – taking place at sunrise in New Zealand on Tuesday, 12th November. It was by observing such an event 250 years ago that James Cook and his scientist colleagues were able ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    1 week ago
  • Georgina Beyer: We need to be able to talk without being offended
    Since becoming the world’s first openly transexual mayor and member of parliament, Georgina Beyer has been recognised as a trailblazer for trans rights. Daphna Whitmore talks with her about where she sees the current trans movement We start out talking about legislation the government put on hold that would have ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The anti-fluoride brigade won’t be erecting billboards about this study
    If FFNZ really put their faith in “Top Medical Journals” they would now be amending their billboards to recognise new research results. Image from FFNZ but updated to agree with the latest research. ...
    1 week ago
  • Chosen To Rule? What Sort Of Christian Is Chris Luxon?
    National Messiah? Chris Luxon identifies himself as an evangelical Christian. If he is genuine in this self-characterisation, then he will take every opportunity his public office provides to proselytise on behalf of his faith. He will also feel obliged to bear witness against beliefs and practices he believes to be ...
    1 week ago
  • War of the worms
    I'm going to make a Reckless Prediction™ that the Tories have 'topped out' in the 'poll of polls' / Britain Elects multipoll tracker at about 38%, and in the next week we will start to see Labour creep up on them.In fact, we might just be seeing the start of ...
    1 week ago
  • Marvelly shows us how to be a feminist without feminism
    by The Council of Disobedient Women Lizzie Marvelly: “I may have missed this… has @afterellen gone all terf-y? Or am I reading something incorrectly? “ https://twitter.com/LizzieMarvelly/status/1191840059105742849 After Ellen is a lesbian website that is unashamedly pro-lesbian, as you’d expect. So why is Ms Marvelly so bothered about lesbians having their ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Out of the past – Tories to revive racist laws from the 16th century
    Did you know there once was a time when it was illegal to be a gypsy (aka Romani) in Britain?That was between 1530, when the Egyptians Act was passed, and 1856, when it was repealed.Amongst other things, the act forbade the entry of 'Egyptians' into England, ordered those already there ...
    2 weeks ago
  • 1000 of these now
    Some days I sit and think, “what will I write…?” What do you say when you get to 1000 posts? Maybe you just start where you are, diverge to where this all began, then offer a collection of reader’s favourite posts, and a few of your own? (And throw in ...
    SciBlogsBy Grant Jacobs
    2 weeks ago
  • Has Shane Jones Just Saved NZ First?
    Counter-Puncher: The “activists” and “radicals” (his own words) from the Indian community who took such strong exception to Shane Jones’ remarks about Immigration NZ’s treatment of arranged marriages, may end up bitterly regretting their intervention. Jones is not the sort of person who turns the other cheek to his critics.SHANE ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: As predicted
    Yesterday, when National voted for the Zero Carbon Bill, I predicted they'd gut it the moment they regained power, just as they had done to the ETS. And indeed, they have explicitly promised to do exactly that within their first hundred days in office. What would their amendments do? Abandon ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Let this never be forgot
    In the spirit of Remember, remember the fifth of November, let's keep this in mind FOREVER.
    Oh dear. Extraordinary interview on PM with Andrew Bridgen and @EvanHD just now. Bridgen was defending Jacob Rees Mogg’s Grenfell comments. Evan asked him if JRM had meant to say he would have left ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Too Late To Change Capitalism’s Flightpath?
    Collision Course? In conditions of ideological white-out, the international bankers’ “Woop-Woop! Pull Up!” warning may have come too late to save global capitalism.WHAT DOES IT MEAN when international bankers are more willing to embrace radical solutions than our politicians and their electors? At both the International Monetary Fund and the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Whooping cough vaccine works well despite its imperfections
    Pertussis (whooping cough) is a conundrum. It is a disease that was described hundreds of years ago and the bacteria that causes it (Bordetella pertussis) isolated in 1906. We have had vaccines for about 80 years but this disease is defiant in the face of human immunity. I wanted to ...
    SciBlogsBy Helen Petousis Harris
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Passed
    The Zero Carbon Bill has just passed its third reading, uanimously. In the end, National supported it - but we all know they'll turn around and gut it the moment they regain power. Meanwhile, I guess ACT's David Seymour didn't even bother to show up. I am on record as ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Retailing of vaping products – New NZ Research
    Dr Lindsay Robertson, Dr Jerram Bateman, Professor Janet Hoek Members of the public health community hold divergent views on how access to vaping products or electronic nicotine delivery systems (ENDS) products should be arranged. Some believe ENDS should be as widely available as smoked tobacco and argue for liberal ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    2 weeks ago
  • Justice for Bomber
    When the Police were trying to cover up for the National Party over Dirty Politics, they went all-in with their abuses of power. They illegally search Nicky Hager's house, violating his journalistic privilege and invading his privacy. They unlawfully acquired Hager's bank records. They did the same to left-wing blogger ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Britain’s climate tyranny was unlawful
    Last month, in response to a wave of protests by Extinction Rebellion, the British government purported to ban their protests from the whole of London. It was a significant interference with the freedoms of expression and assembly, and another sign of the country's decline into tyranny. But now, a court ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • More crime from the spies
    Last year, the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security reported on significant problems with the intelligence warrant system. While they were unwilling to declare any warrant "irregular" (meaning unlawful) due to the recent law change, they were also not willing to give the system a clean bill of health. Now, they've ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Vaccination, compulsion, and paternalism for the lower orders
    The National Party has come out in support of encouraging greater vaccination uptake. But it sure isn’t the way I’d do it. National’s suggested docking the benefits of those on benefit whose kids aren’t keeping up with their vaccinations. Some in National have suggested extending that to payments under Working ...
    SciBlogsBy Eric Crampton
    2 weeks ago
  • Global Protests Rage On: But Slogans Are Not Plans.
    Feeding The Flames: It is simply not enough to demand an end to “corruption”, or “inequality”, or the overbearing influence of the authorities in Beijing. These are just “lowest common denominator” demands: the sort of slogans that pull people onto the streets. They are not a plan.WHERE’S THE PLAN? Across ...
    2 weeks ago
  • 11,000 employed under Labour
    The labour market statistics have been released, and unemployment has risen to 4.2%. There are 115,000 unemployed - 11,000 fewer than when Labour took office. In that time the minimum wage has gone up by $2 an hour, which shows that the right's fears about increases causing unemployment are simply ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Boycott this democratic fraud
    The Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee has called for submissions on Andrew Little's tyrannical Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill. Normally I encourage participation in the democratic process. I am not doing so in this case. Instead, I encourage all of you to boycott this submissions process, and to post ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Why Mars is cold despite an atmosphere of mostly carbon dioxide
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz If tiny concentrations of carbon dioxide can hold enough heat ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Ban private jets
    Aviation is one of the fastest growing sources of greenhouse gas emissions, and within it, one of the fastest sources is elite travel: billionaires flitting around the world in their private jets, spewing excessive pollution into the atmosphere just so they can avoid mixing with us dirty peasants. But in ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Untold Suffering
    That's what we face if we don't stop climate change, according to a warning from 11,000 scientists:The world’s people face “untold suffering due to the climate crisis” unless there are major transformations to global society, according to a stark warning from more than 11,000 scientists. “We declare clearly and unequivocally ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • The left and violent misogyny
    by Phil Duncan Here’s just a few of the kind of threats issued day in and day out against gender-critical women – feminists, marxists, etc – overwhelmingly by MEN (albeit men identifying as women). “Kill all Terfs”. “Shoot a Terf today”. “All terfs deserve to be shot in the head”. ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago

  • Mental Health Commission back on track
    Jenny Marcroft, Spokesperson for Health New Zealand First welcomes the passage of the Mental Health and Wellbeing Commission Bill through its first reading in Parliament. “Today’s progress takes serious action on the mental health and addiction crisis the country is facing,” says New Zealand First Health Spokesperson Jenny Marcroft. “The re-establishment ...
    11 mins ago
  • New Zealand’s key assets are not for sale: national interest test delivered
    Mark Patterson, Spokesperson for Primary Industries Today the Government announced the delivery of the promise to protect New Zealand interests by applying a new National Interest Test to the sales of our most sensitive and high risk assets to overseas buyers. This further strengthening of the Overseas Investment Act will ...
    18 hours ago
  • National interest test added to protect New Zealanders’ interests
    The Coalition Government is delivering on its promise to protect New Zealanders’ interests by applying a new national interest test to the sales of our most sensitive and high-risk assets to overseas buyers. Under current Overseas Investment Act (OIA) rules, assets such as ports and airports, telecommunications infrastructure, electricity and ...
    19 hours ago
  • Electoral law breach allegations
    Rt Winston Peters, Leader of New Zealand First Allegations raised this morning by Stuff Limited / Fairfax concern a party matter but I am confident that New Zealand First has operated within electoral laws, now and for the last 27 years. Declarable donations were declared to the Electoral Commission. Our ...
    20 hours ago
  • Wayne Brown hits back at critics: Ports of Auckland has to move
    The chairman of the Upper North Island Supply Chain Strategy (UNISCS) working group, Wayne Brown, has hit back at critics of his group’s recommendations to relocate the Ports of Auckland cargo operations to Whangarei’s deepwater port of Northport. The working group's recommendation to close Auckland waterfront to all but cruise ...
    2 days ago
  • Week That Was: Supporting our schools
    We're setting our young people up for success, investing in education around the country.  ...
    2 days ago
  • Kiwis to have their say on End of Life Choice
    Jenny Marcroft MP, Spokesperson for Health New Zealand First backs the public to decide on the End of Life Choice Bill via a referendum at the 2020 General Election. The Bill, with New Zealand First’s referendum provision incorporated, passed its final reading in Parliament this evening. New Zealand First Spokesperson for ...
    6 days ago
  • Addressing miscarriages of justice
    Darroch Ball, Spokesperson for Justice New Zealand First is proud that a key Coalition Agreement commitment which will provide for a more transparent and effective criminal justice system has been realised. Legislation to establish the Criminal Cases Review Commission, an independent body focused on identifying and responding to possible miscarriages of ...
    1 week ago
  • Week That Was: Historic action on climate change
    "Today we have made a choice that will leave a legacy... I hope that means that future generations will see that we, in New Zealand, were on the right side of history." - Jacinda Ardern, Third Reading of the Zero Carbon Bill ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Tax-free deployments for Kiwi troops
    Darroch Ball, New Zealand First List MP A Member’s bill has been proposed that would provide income tax exemptions for all New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) personnel while on operational deployment overseas. The Income Tax (Exemption for Salary or Wages of NZDF Members on Active Deployment) Amendment Bill proposed by New Zealand First ...
    2 weeks ago
  • A balanced Zero Carbon Bill passed
    Rt Hon Winston Peters, New Zealand First Leader New Zealand First is proud to have brought common sense to the Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill, which passed its final reading in Parliament today. Party Leader Rt Hon Winston Peters says months of hard work went into negotiating a balanced ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Paramedics’ status to be recognised
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