Open Mike 08/11/2016

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 8th, 2016 - 189 comments
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189 comments on “Open Mike 08/11/2016 ”

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  1. The Chairman 1
    8 November 2016 at 7:09 am

    Pay rises top of the agenda for new Wellington City Council

    It comes just six months after the previous council voted to increase their salaries across the board.

    “We don’t do this job for the money,” Lester said. “But it’s important that [councillors] get paid enough to support them and their families.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/86176705/pay-rises-top-of-the-agenda-for-new-wellington-city-council

    • Draco T Bastard 1.1
      8 November 2016 at 10:59 am

      But it’s important that [councillors] get paid enough to support them and their families.

      Wonder if he applies that to the council cleaners.

      • save nz 1.1.1
        8 November 2016 at 12:10 pm

        +1 Chairman and Draco! The CEO should be fired after the Singapore airlines corporate welfare deal behind closed doors.

      • The Chairman 1.1.2
        8 November 2016 at 12:24 pm

        As Labour endorsed him, one wonders if they will be impacted by the blow-back?

        A number of ratepayers won’t be impressed. And the general election comes before the next local one.

        • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2.1
          8 November 2016 at 1:07 pm

          I’m quite happy for councillors to be paid enough to live on. I just want that consideration to be extended to all other council workers.

          Thing is, I don’t think that they should be paid excessively more than that. Basically, we shouldn’t be seeing councillors or council workers with pay rates anything above $100k.

    • Richard Rawshark 2.1
      8 November 2016 at 8:42 am

      The Heralds becoming, irrelevant, they have only a few Named and known political press, people will take real notice of, Young, O’Sullivan and Trevett 3 National party pro press.

      The easiest way I see for Phil to deal with the Herald, is block them..

      Stop sending them anything..

      Just stop.

      I think she just blew her chances of being invited.

    • Puckish Rogue 2.2
      8 November 2016 at 8:47 am

      Ever since Labour has been in opposition whenever they’ve released something the costings have been pored over and picked apart by National and the media

      Labour surely know whats going to happen yet they’ve released something and the majority of the voting public are now thinking the figures are iffy

      If figures like 10 000 people, 60 million and 6 months are bandied about then the media (and National) will get the calculators out

      It looks like the issues that’ve plagued Labour are still there but the worst thing about is its not like a massive problem to fix but Labour don’t seem to be able to fix it

      • Robert Guyton 2.2.1
        8 November 2016 at 8:54 am

        iIffy? There’s a word. Iffy and Squiffy; they’re two names, suitable for use when referring to Key and McCully when discussing the Saudi scandal. Your thoughts, Pucky, on the way Key “explained” the dodgy deal away? Does that kind of forked-tongued delivery make your heart swell with pride?

        • Puckish Rogue 2.2.1.1
          8 November 2016 at 9:12 am

          Well Robert first off its two separate issues, its not the Saudi deal was iffy so its ok that Labours costings are iffy

          The dodgy deal with the sheep was sloppy (McCully must have some good dirt to stay where he is…) but again failing to cost or explain the costings effectively has cost Labour again

          But its not the first time its happened and it gives National the chance to say “show me the money” again so you need to ask what is going to do more damage to what party?

          If the general consensus of National is big business and dodgy deals then the Saudi sheep deal is going to do some but not a great deal of damage

          If the general consensus of Labour is they’re sloppy when it comes to costings then this will hurt them more as it reinforces the notion they’re not ready for office

          • Stuart Munro 2.2.1.1.1
            8 November 2016 at 9:21 am

            The Saudi and India deals establish a pattern of stupid, expensive failure.

            • Richard Rawshark 2.2.1.1.1.1
              8 November 2016 at 9:34 am

              GFC and people know it.

              Yet Money wastage used to be pointed at labour, but National won the cup 8 years on the trot, from millions on flag referendums to 30 million to arabs and propping up Clintons war cabinet.

              You could also here along with keys lies make a wastage list.

              I wonder if we totted up all the stupid waste of money during a hard time we would see a disgusting picture of excess and..poor financial management.

              or not.

              • Stuart Munro …
                8 November 2016 at 9:39 am

                Clearly – NZ executives are distinctly second-rate, and those who go into politics are the dregs and sweepings from that pitiable group.

            • Puckish Rogue 2.2.1.1.1.2
              8 November 2016 at 9:38 am

              The Saudi deal was sloppy and poorly done and McCully should be gone (I’m guessing he knows where some bodies are buried)

              The Indian deal is too early to call a failure

              Apologies Robert, please add in my opinion to all of the above

          • Robert Guyton 2.2.1.1.2
            8 November 2016 at 9:43 am

            Two separate issues, Pucky? Yes and I asked you about the Saudi issue, in particular Key’s claims about it. You briefly touch the very hem of the issue then reverted to the one you’re pushing today. I invite you again to comment on Key’s claims and your acceptance or otherwise of those.
            Edit: I see your addition, Pucky, but note the lack of comment about Key’s claims. Waiting with keen anticipation.

            • Puckish Rogue 2.2.1.1.2.1
              8 November 2016 at 10:16 am

              I don’t care about the deal all that much, I really don’t. McCully should go and that’s where my interest in the matter ends.

              • Robert Guyton …
                8 November 2016 at 11:32 am

                I don’t care about the “Labour’s costings” issue all that much, I really don’t. It’s political whip-up from National and you (here) to be ignored and that’s where my interest in the matter ends.

                • Puckish Rogue …
                  8 November 2016 at 11:50 am

                  Fair enough although you obviously care about it enough because you joined in on a thread about “Labour’s costings”

                  • In Vino …
                    8 November 2016 at 1:30 pm

                    Only to tell you that you should be ignored, I suspect. I agree, and that is where my interest in the matter ends, too.

                    • Nessalt …
                      8 November 2016 at 4:06 pm

                      Ah right so costing policies properly is a skill that should be ignored because labour came up with policy.

                      I must have forgotten that shortcut in my basic managment of the economy for prospective governments foundation paper

                    • In Vino …
                      8 November 2016 at 10:29 pm

                      Costing is always ignored by the media when National announce a policy.

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    9 November 2016 at 3:17 am

                    But you see it isn’t a thread on “Labour’s Costings”

                    It’s a thread on media bias and threadjacking of Labour’s policy releases, specifically a policy designed to get young people into employment or training – a worthy object that the disgusting Gnats, as enthusiastic servants of evil, feel they must crush.

                    You may recall that the Greens wanted Treasury to cost opposition policies so that this kind of pathetic diversion could be avoided.

                    National weren’t having a bar of that of course – pathetic diversions are the only defence they’ve got. That and the corruptible fraction of the media.

                    It is a shameful business, and the role of the trolls is not the least shameful in it.

      • Richard Rawshark 2.2.2
        8 November 2016 at 8:55 am

        every day, you love to stir the pot with slight mistruths, it’s subtle, and the way you approach it’s quite.., professional.

        I’ve now been here long enough to spot a few people who consume others time and instigate trouble at the standard.

        This is absolutely a judgement on you, BM and James.

        Your boring me, it’s tiring answering you, and why would I? Defending what to you? You are irrelevant we all know who your voting for.

        From here on PR, you’ll need to pick on another fresh person at THE Standard, before they cotton on.

        If I could put you on an ignore list, it would be heaven. Seriously.

        • Puckish Rogue 2.2.2.1
          8 November 2016 at 9:15 am

          I’m picking on The Chairman?

          • Richard Rawshark 2.2.2.1.1
            8 November 2016 at 9:36 am

            Thanks , Rawshark chuckles, you just admitted it.

            • Puckish Rogue 2.2.2.1.1.1
              8 November 2016 at 9:43 am

              Comprehension isn’t your strong suit is it.

              Don’t worry Richard I won’t be replying to your comments in future. Your posts over the last few days has me worried about your metal health, if you did something drastic because of how worked up you get on this site well its not something I’d want to be party to

              I hope you continue to get the help you need and please don’t take this site so seriously in future

              • Richard Rawshark …
                8 November 2016 at 10:00 am

                I’m picking on The Chairman?

                really?

                Comprehension isn’t your strong suit is it.

                really?

                I hope you continue to get the help you need and please don’t take this site so seriously in future.

                really!!!!!!!!!!

                well that cheered me up, no end, thanks PR.

        • Robert Guyton 2.2.2.2
          8 November 2016 at 9:37 am

          He’s trolling, is Pucky, with a smile (where’d he learn that?)

          • Richard Rawshark 2.2.2.2.1
            8 November 2016 at 9:56 am

            He needs more practise, he’s a tad obvious, but with MCCully’s guidance his protégé has prospects of being a valued National asset.

        • james 2.2.2.3
          8 November 2016 at 11:11 am

          Mwahahaha – you say stir the pot with slight mistruths…

          Says Richie who quoted a poll yesterday, then had to admit he was lying and made it up.

          Says Richie who quotes numbers (more than once) that are so wrong that a 4 year old could see maths was not his strong point – and then says he was just kidding with his numbers.

          Sorry you get called out on your bullshit – and that you get bored defending it – but you could start by not posting bullshit to start with.

          • Richard Rawshark 2.2.2.3.1
            8 November 2016 at 11:21 am

            “Sorry you get called out on your bullshit – and that you get bored defending it – but you could start by not posting bullshit to start with.”

            Full Definition of hypocrite
            1:  a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
            2:  a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

            • james 2.2.2.3.1.1
              8 November 2016 at 11:26 am

              Choosing not to comment of your deliberate lies (caught out – ouch) or “trick” numbers you kept posting huh?

        • Robert Guyton 2.2.2.4
          8 November 2016 at 1:50 pm

          Richard Rawshark …
          … am I right?
          If not, please ignore

          • Richard Rawshark 2.2.2.4.1
            8 November 2016 at 2:10 pm

            I cannot see any smiley on PR’s post.

            Trolling he most definitely is. then again what is the definition of trolling.

            I would consider PR more of an agitator of the left technically

            and in common Tokoroa Language

            He’s all shit au..

            ‘/wink, who stirs back better…

        • Garibaldi 2.2.2.5
          8 November 2016 at 4:24 pm

          Couldn’t agree more Richard.
          PR ,BM, Chuck, fisiani, red and James should be banned for all their boring, time wasting attempts at derailing.

      • The Chairman 2.2.3
        8 November 2016 at 9:21 am

        Labour are blaming the media. I believe it was the delivery.

        And it’s a worry Labour can’t seem to acknowledge that.

        The delivery won’t improve if Labour don’t come to terms they got it wrong.

        Labour could have simply said: the policy will cost around $87m a year, but on the basis of evidence (due to the average length people would be on the scheme) we expect it to come in under that. Bringing it down to an annual cost of around $60m.

        • Stuart Munro 2.2.3.1
          8 November 2016 at 9:26 am

          This is the same media that concocted the Donghwa Liu smear campaign.

          Labour could never crawl abjectly enough to secure the cooperation of far right vermin like Audrey Young. Better to take the battle head on, spit in the bitch’s eye and expose her dishonesty.

          This is what Twyford has done.

          They were correct to do so, and their numbers were unimpeachable.

          The only dodgyness here is from the depraved Key corruption fan-bots.

          • Puckish Rogue 2.2.3.1.1
            8 November 2016 at 9:35 am

            As Grant Robertson said:

            “Probably the lesson is to make sure, if the focus is going to come down to how calculations are made we need to make sure we release that material at the same time.”

            “What I would say is, whether the cost was $85m or $60m, we think this is a worthwhile investment…these people are not being looked after and supported.”

            • mauī 2.2.3.1.1.1
              8 November 2016 at 9:40 am

              Basically we will make you jump through hoops when and how we feel like because you’re Labour.

              • Puckish Rogue …
                8 November 2016 at 9:50 am

                Yeah how dare the media expect accurate figures, the nerve of them, they should just print what Labour tells them to and never, ever question them

                • Stuart Munro …
                  8 November 2016 at 9:58 am

                  The media got accurate figures – then went to Farrar for some lies.

                  So did you.

                  • Puckish Rogue …
                    8 November 2016 at 10:02 am

                    If (and that’s a big if) that’s true then it comes down to who is more believable, a politician or a journalist

                    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11462191

                    Geez its pretty close

                  • Chuck …
                    8 November 2016 at 10:05 am

                    Shame then no one told Andrew Little that the $60m was based on an assumption that a person would only be active in the scheme for 4 months, and not the 6 months he said.

                    I do wonder per fisiani if Little was setup?

                    • Stuart Munro …
                      8 November 2016 at 10:11 am

                      You don’t wonder at all Chuck – you are merely trying to foment mischief.

                      Because that’s what the Gnats stand for – not concern for the misery of the underemployed people of the country, but whether they can forge a bright and shining lie that will gift them with another undeserved term of misrule.

            • Stuart Munro 2.2.3.1.1.2
              8 November 2016 at 9:42 am

              Grasping at straws much?

              • Nessalt …
                8 November 2016 at 4:08 pm

                50% underestimated is a pretty big straw.

                How much is 3 years free tertiary education going to cost the country if it’s cost is 50% underestimated?

                • In Vino …
                  8 November 2016 at 10:47 pm

                  50% more, obviously. Did you never learn simple Maths? Dumb question from a disingenuous troll.

                  And please put your apostrophes in the right place.
                  It’s = It is or It has. Not ‘of it’ (=its)

                  3 years’ = of 3 years. You trolls are so illiterate.

                  • Richard Rawshark …
                    9 November 2016 at 6:38 pm

                    My English teacher used to go on to me exactly like that, and I learned fast.

                    Plus, a good spell checker these day’s and your all ready to write your novel.

            • Gabby 2.2.3.1.1.3
              8 November 2016 at 7:38 pm

              Well I guess it’s not before time.

          • james 2.2.3.1.2
            8 November 2016 at 11:16 am

            ugggghhhh – I kind of agree with Stuart Munro on this (but without the venom and hate).

            If Vance was indeed briefed as Twyford said – and she reported differently – then yes – she should be held to account and deserves the complaint and follow up punishment.

            However – if she didnt have the figures that Twyford says she did (and given his comments on twitter) – then he could be held up for defamation – which would be fair also – you cannot lie about someone impacting their employment.

            Eitherway – one is wrong. The other needs to make amends for it.

            • The Chairman 2.2.3.1.2.1
              8 November 2016 at 11:45 am

              As Robertson said we need to make sure we release that material (calculations) at the same time, it also brings into question exactly when was Vance briefed?

          • The Chairman 2.2.3.1.3
            8 November 2016 at 11:34 am

            While the numbers may have been correct, Stuart, it was the context in which they were delivered that brought them into question.

          • Anne 2.2.3.1.4
            8 November 2016 at 3:44 pm

            Better to take the battle head on, spit in the bitch’s eye and expose her dishonesty.

            Andrea Vance showed her true colours when she used her feminine wiles to “cultivate” Peter Dunne in an attempt [apparently successful] to extricate confidential/top secret information out of him. I’m no fan of P. Dunne, but that was dirty and underhand. Remember where she came from… News of the World.

            • Nessalt 2.2.3.1.4.1
              8 November 2016 at 4:10 pm

              Are you really a women? you seem to hate any successful woman who has succeeded in her job?

              “feminine wiles” is an extremely sexist and misogynistic statement implying women can only extract information if someone is sexually attracted to them.

              • Anne …
                8 November 2016 at 5:22 pm

                Feminine wiles is an old and traditional term used to describe a woman who uses her charm to get what she wants. There wouldn’t be a woman anywhere who hasn’t used it sometime – including me. But I don’t approve of anyone using their ‘wiles’ on a person in a nefarious way which causes that person public embarrassment. That is dishonest – something you are very good at being… dishonest.

                Does your literacy level not extend beyond Micky Mouse comics?

                • In Vino …
                  8 November 2016 at 11:01 pm

                  +1 Anne – well said. And don’t be too hard on Mickey Mouse comics.

                • Nessalt …
                  9 November 2016 at 6:34 pm

                  You are just assuming she used her “feminine wiles”, in a male the same action is called charm. charm is hardly a pejorative, misogynistic term, especially when compared to “feminine wiles”.

                  Aren’t females allowed to charm people without it being put down to their sexuality. why do you hate successful women?

        • Puckish Rogue 2.2.3.2
          8 November 2016 at 9:31 am

          http://politik.co.nz/en/content/politics/974/?ct=t(POLITIKToday_07_10_2016_10_6_2016)

          Agreed, why not just err on the caution?

          I’m not sure it was the delivery though I mean was Little told that the costings was for 4 months only instead of 6 months and just went with it or it could have been miscommunication between Little and Robertson

          But it certainly won’t help Labours election chances and as for Twyford…

          “Never pick a fight with people who buy ink by the barrel”

        • mauī 2.2.3.3
          8 November 2016 at 9:35 am

          That’s just silly. At a policy launch you’re not going to throw different numbers around and say how you arrived at the figure. The media just want to know how much its going to cost. Has the media been this pedantic over costings of Nats roads of future destruction. No.

        • fisiani 2.2.3.4
          8 November 2016 at 9:58 am

          When a glaring mistake is made and $60M balloons into at least $150M after just five minutes of the media adding it up you have to ask if this was by accident or by design.
          I do not believe it was an accident. I believe that the nefarious Grant Robertson saw this as a way to destabilize Little to pursue his own leadership ambitions.

          • Stuart Munro 2.2.3.4.1
            8 November 2016 at 10:03 am

            When a glaring mistake is made by the trolls, they repeat it forever.

            This is why the trolls are considered ‘stupid’.

            Labour’s numbers were correct in this instance.

            GR is neither here nor there in this instance.

            It was not a mistake – the media are determined to sabotage Labour and you’re doing your pathetic best to assist them.

            The place for your level of dishonesty is Failoil my lad – not here.

            • Puckish Rogue 2.2.3.4.1.1
              8 November 2016 at 10:12 am

              I’ll repeat it for you:

              As Grant Robertson said:

              “Probably the lesson is to make sure, if the focus is going to come down to how calculations are made we need to make sure we release that material at the same time.”

              “What I would say is, whether the cost was $85m or $60m, we think this is a worthwhile investment…these people are not being looked after and supported.”

              Grant Robertson basically admitted that they stuffed up yet you seem to be ignoring that

              • Richard Rawshark …
                8 November 2016 at 10:17 am

                Comprehension abysmal.. really PR, your a simple sort..

                I can comprehend what Grant said, you don’t.

                You need to read it over and over again until you get it.

                But seriously I don’t think your IQ is up to it..

                There is something wrong with your comprehension of what grant said, can your intellect find it..?

                we are all waiting..

                • Richard Rawshark …
                  8 November 2016 at 10:41 am

                  Your time started at 10:17

                  10:40 tic tok

                  no answer in..23 minutes any sign of a break though PR?

                  • Red …
                    8 November 2016 at 11:05 am

                    Richard when will your self announced ignoring of RW trolls start, the sooner the better, you are getting far to worked up and taking this site far to seriously and personally. It’s a virtual community, it’s not real I suggest if a lot of us in this site met in person we would probably get along simply on the basis we share an interest albeit at different spectrums and give s toss , likewise in reality we are not denfined by the odd defined comment in an artificial enviornmet, to me their is no real room for hate, hunerous put down, having a crack yes , hate no

                    • Richard Rawshark …
                      8 November 2016 at 11:10 am

                      After 3 days of them repeating the same lie in every thread..

                      I’ll ignore that.

                      If your not part of the ongoing, debate, you may see it as such.

                    • Richard Rawshark …
                      8 November 2016 at 11:12 am

                      Is it just me BTW, or is it because i’m harder to debate a topic with?

                  • Richard Rawshark …
                    8 November 2016 at 11:13 am

                    So PR 11.13 I gave up waiting for your Eureka moment

                    “What I would say is, whether the cost was $85m or $60m, we think this is a worthwhile investment…these people are not being looked after and supported”

                    He doesn’t admit the costing is wrong, what he says here is, regardless of cost, it’s about the kids.

                    It’s about the kids PR, not political point scoring.

              • Stuart Munro …
                8 November 2016 at 10:19 am

                Grant Robertson’s attempt to calm the waters does not absolve the media of their professional responsibility to get the numbers right.

                Spin how you may you cannot make this turd palatable.

                Repetition is the only trick you have, poor shameful bought creature, miserable apologist for the worst government New Zealand has ever endured.

                • Puckish Rogue …
                  8 November 2016 at 10:29 am

                  “Grant Robertson’s attempt to calm the waters does not absolve the media of their professional responsibility to get the numbers right.”

                  I agree, if the media did make it up then they need whatever censure is available however there needs to be more evidence then Twyford said so to qualify as proof

                  “Spin how you may you cannot make this turd palatable.”

                  The turds already out there via the media

                  “Repetition is the only trick you have, poor shameful bought creature, miserable apologist for the worst government New Zealand has ever endured.”

                  I’m guessing that the irony of you using repetition and worst government in the same sentence escapes you

                  • Stuart Munro …
                    8 November 2016 at 3:13 pm

                    If only you were up to irony Pucky, instead of this lame farce.

                    Tell us – how does your production or support of dishonest numbers help those who are kept in underemployment by systematic failures of this ludicrously incompetent government?

                    What does Key have to do to lose your support, eat babies on camera?

            • Richard Rawshark 2.2.3.4.1.2
              8 November 2016 at 10:14 am

              + 1000

              make up a total lie on figures and accuse them till your blue in the face, pathetic

            • Richard Rawshark 2.2.3.4.1.3
              8 November 2016 at 1:49 pm

              chuckle.. nice ..burn.

        • Richard Rawshark 2.2.3.5
          8 November 2016 at 10:11 am

          Hindsights, always 20/20 in that, do you make good tight figures or looser ones with room for error.

          Best thing he actually did was approach them before hand explain costings and any questions they had about costing to Trevett and Vance. Then they did a hatchet job accompanied with keys statement on the costing. It was a professional media hit job. IMHO

          Now CT and AV are claiming it was Phil and attacking back.. it’s so disgusting it’s amazing the pair haven’t been pulled up by the press council on it.

          Phil would have sought legal advise, obviously the advise he sought clearly showed him they were wrong and he should proceed with a complaint.

          Now I’ve said some harsh things against Phil in the past, credit to him he’s turned my perception of him on it’s head.

          Now I love the guy and he’s a extremely valuable and savvy political workhorse and we really need the likes of him and his skills to help on our new members.

          Good job Phil, I think taking no third rate politically motivated reporting unchallenged is how we can keep our brand ands message intact.

          Remember articles like those hurt Brand labour, We need to protect our Brand, and seeing Key likes to use brand promotion methodology. Well two can play that game IMHO.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 2.2.4
        8 November 2016 at 9:30 am

        picked apart

        Inventing a pack of lies doesn’t pick anything apart. Labour releases costings, Farrar tells lies about it, the stenographers parrot the lies.

        • Puckish Rogue 2.2.4.1
          8 November 2016 at 9:33 am

          So if its going to happen why make it easy for National, the numbers bandied about could have been 90 million or they could have said 4 months but instead they gave a free hit to the media and National

          • Stuart Munro 2.2.4.1.1
            8 November 2016 at 9:44 am

            So Labour should pad their figures to allow for Gnat troll stupidity?

            As a pragmatic solution it might not be intolerable if it worked.

            But it wouldn’t work – because Gnat stupidity is infinite.

            Dumb politics down until the Gnats can do it? That lets the enemy control the terrain – you know better PR.

            • Puckish Rogue 2.2.4.1.1.1
              8 November 2016 at 9:58 am

              “That lets the enemy control the terrain – you know better PR.”

              Absolutely correct but whats happened now is that, over this issue, National are controlling the issue

              The media aren’t saying whats National doing about this, its why have Labour got it wrong again

              What could have happened is Little could have said either 90 million or 4 months and we wouldn’t be having this conversation on here or in the media

          • Robert Guyton 2.2.4.1.2
            8 November 2016 at 9:52 am

            It’s impossible not to, given that they make stuff up to suit. It’s not possible to avoid Key’s style hit-and-run of misleading, misrepresenting, dead-cat dropping etc. so that claim that Labour should be extra, extra careful is a pointless one. Throw in a media that supports that process, numerous examples where National has failed to provide believable numbers/costings and your wheedle here, Pucky, sound high-pitched and precious.

            • Puckish Rogue 2.2.4.1.2.1
              8 November 2016 at 10:06 am

              Dude seriously? This all came from the media first, even they could work out the numbers didn’t add up (the way it was presented)

              Keys probably put the word out to keep quiet about it (be above it all, that kind of thing) and let media and the Labour party go at it

              • Stuart Munro …
                8 November 2016 at 10:15 am

                The media failed to work out the numbers – and they didn’t need to – the real numbers were supplied to them.

                Key certainly is that dishonest – more than likely the fake numbers the media ran with came from his office.

                • Puckish Rogue …
                  8 November 2016 at 10:23 am

                  Yet, again, Little could have said 4 months instead of saying 6 months or say 90 million instead of 60 million and none of this would be happening

                  • mauī …
                    8 November 2016 at 10:35 am

                    Maybe you could launch your own party and confuse the hell out of everyone with random number of months used for costing and implementation.

                  • Richard Rawshark …
                    8 November 2016 at 10:58 am

                    Rough figures.
                    Per person
                    hourly rate 15.8
                    hours 40
                    weeks 26
                    15.8x40x26=16,432
                    – tax Over $14,000 and up to $48,000
                    17.5%
                    = 13,554.6
                    x 10000
                    = 135,540,000
                    less what they were getting by way of, maxing it too, accommodation, basic benefit, supplementary. etc.
                    they here have after tax so i’ll skip that
                    $175.10 basic 18-19 example and the nest zone 1 accommodation supplement is a massive 145.oo
                    so
                    175.1 + 145 = 320.10
                    times 26 weeks =8,332.60
                    times 10000= 83,226,000
                    then we subtract..
                    135,540,000
                    – 83,226,000

                    = 52,314,000

                    Rough, but you can’t even show me a working on our error PR, at all.

                    Your spouting off we got it wrong, show us, you can’t even comprehend what Grant actually said..

                    There’s serious issues with our education system if PR is the best youth they can send to fight for them.

                • Richard Rawshark …
                  8 November 2016 at 10:30 am

                  Your arguing with a kid Stuart, this PR’s about 13 or something.

                  seriously, his comprehensions really low, read through what he says, take your time.

                  That’s why i’m trying to get rid of him.

      • Draco T Bastard 2.2.5
        8 November 2016 at 11:07 am

        Ever since Labour has been in opposition whenever they’ve released something the costings have been pored over and picked apart by National and the media

        Tell me, do you find it strange that that never happens to National Party policy?

        • Puckish Rogue 2.2.5.1
          8 November 2016 at 11:13 am

          I know where you’re going with this but I think its more to do with the media essentially being lazy and preferring to pick the low hanging fruit

          • Colonial Viper 2.2.5.1.1
            8 November 2016 at 11:21 am

            I find it interesting that people who back the US establishment corporate media’s choice of political candidate, have a problem with the NZ establishment corporate media’s choice of political candidate.

            • Richard Rawshark 2.2.5.1.1.1
              8 November 2016 at 11:30 am

              ALERT!

              we have a CV loose on the premises, last known location was

              The US election thread.

              The offender is dangerous if spotted keep your distance but politely nod your head in a non threatening manner toward his enclosure.

              Thank you.

              This was a public safety announcement

              • Garibaldi …
                8 November 2016 at 4:36 pm

                Don’t be so hasty Richard.
                CV is one of the most astute commenters on the Standard.
                Just because we can see through the Labour Party neolib spin does not make us right wingers. I, for one, am sick of being labelled a ‘ rightie ‘ . I look upon Labour as being too right wing.

                • Richard Rawshark …
                  8 November 2016 at 4:51 pm

                  Miss often?

                  Geez mate where the did that comment come from.?

                  Not all comments on the standard a serious!!!

                  I was having a laugh I’ve conversed with CV many a time and we get on well.

                  He’s been in that thread since the US election heated up, thaqt was his first post outside the US thread in days,.

                  So I made a joke about that..

          • Draco T Bastard 2.2.5.1.2
            8 November 2016 at 11:30 am

            What a load of bollocks.

            National’s policies usually don’t even have figures with them. Can’t get any lower than that and yet the MSM never pull them up on it.

      • mosa 2.2.6
        8 November 2016 at 11:47 am

        +100 Puckish Rogue.

  3. Richard Rawshark 3
    8 November 2016 at 8:35 am

    I just read an article saying suicide stats in rural area’s are the lowest they have ever been.

    Two things sprang straight to my mind.

    That’s some disgusting low disgraceful politicking.

    Suicide stats are the highest ever, It’s a not a good endorsement for any government, so to counter this instead of focusing on the issue they decide to focus on a tiny part of it that’s a positive, and spin there way out of headlines.

    There is spin, I understand the need for all parties to spin a positive angle.. However I would have thought certain things would be to disgusting and morally repugnant even for spinsters.

    That’s low..IMHO

  4. Richard Rawshark 4
    8 November 2016 at 9:11 am

    Who maintains the Storage servers that house the complete unedited edition circa 2016 of John Keys lies?

    We may need a few more Terrabytes to cope with the last two weeks.

    DID Muldoon in those days ever get caught out on a lie? and was there ever a time when a lie would see a PM resign?

    I know Piggy got caught out after the election but whilst in power I meant.

    • fisiani 4.1
      8 November 2016 at 10:03 am

      Honest John has never lied and you know it. The ridiculous list that gets trotted out here from time to time is risable. e.g “I think it might rain tomorrow” is called a lie if it turns out fine.
      But do not listen. Keep harping on about how awful Honest John is. It has not worked for 8 years but surely it eventually will.

  5. Morrissey 5
    8 November 2016 at 10:39 am

    Nick Farr-Jones foolishly made a point of supporting a racist in 2003;
    Now there are more doubts about his sense of judgement and decency.

    After NewstalkZB morning host Paul Holmes embarked on his infamous extended “cheeky darkie” rant in 2003 [1] he instantly became a reviled, toxic product. Several of his production staff refused to work for him again, and both TVNZ and NewstalkZB were besieged with angry listeners calling for him to be sacked immediately. Toyota dropped its sponsorship of his TV program. The disgust was not confined to New Zealand—Germaine Greer, amongst other luminaries, explicitly condemned him. The furore got worse and worse but Holmes refused to do the honorable thing and resign. It ended not with his dismissal, but with his delivering a limp and transparently insincere “apology” on Television One a week later: “You KNOW me. I am a GOOD man….”

    As always, however, there were exceptions. Two former rugby stars decided, perversely, to stage demonstrations of support for Holmes. First, the professional lout and would-be funnyman Marc Ellis made the decision to have his orange juice company Charlie’s pick up the vacated TV sponsorship. That wasn’t entirely a surprise: Ellis was a shameless supporter of the National Party and had himself been embroiled in several foolish and distasteful controversies, though nothing as vicious as Holmes’s racist tirade.

    But a short while after that, Holmes interviewed the ex-Wallaby halfback Nick Farr-Jones about some football match. Most people would have rated Farr-Jones as a superior character to Marc Ellis: he’s educated, well spoken and had not forged a post-football career of offensive, imbecile pranks. Whatever Farr-Jones had to say about the match was neither here nor there; what viewers could not ignore was Farr-Jones’s display of solicitude and empathy for the beleaguered Holmes. He beamed down the camera and said, “Yes, MISTER HOLMES,” then flashed a conspiratorial grin. Holmes, enormously grateful, grinned back at him, his beaming mien the polar opposite of the expression he would employ when talking to, and about, distasteful creatures like “darkies”.

    That exchange raised some troubling questions not only about Farr-Jones’s character, but about his judgement. I was not surprised, therefore, to see that he has gotten himself into some real trouble now….

    Ex-Wallabies Nick Farr-Jones, Jim Williams and Bruce Worboys
    caught up in Learn Earn Legend loan controversy
    by GEORGINA ROBINSON, Sydney Morning Herald, 7 November 2016

    Former NSW Rugby Union chairman Nick Farr-Jones authorised the use of $56,000 in funds earmarked for Indigenous education to make a secret mortgage payment on behalf of former Wallaby Jim Williams.

    The loan, made in August last year using money allocated to the federal government-funded Learn Earn Legend program run by NSWRU and co-ordinated by Williams, was made without the approval or knowledge of the NSWRU board or the Learn Earn Legend advisory committee, and was not repaid until March this year.

    Farr-Jones and then-NSWRU executive director Bruce Worboys say they organised the loan after Williams confronted them in severe financial stress over the mortgage on his three-bedroom home in Allawah. The trio kept the $56,000 transaction secret for more than six months until the NSWRU finance department discovered the anomaly and raised the matter with Worboys.

    A spokesman from the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, which is responsible for Learn Earn Legend-branded programs, said it was investigating the circumstances surrounding the loan and the program’s administration.

    “The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet is aware of alleged issues relating to funding provided to the NSWRU,” the spokesman said in a written statement.

    “The department takes all allegations involving … serious non-compliance with the terms and conditions of its funding agreements seriously. As the matter is under assessment further comment cannot be made at this time.”

    A NSWRU official said the money was not “linked to, or paid from, the Learn Earn Legend program”. This appears at odds with Farr-Jones’ account of the transaction which, he said, was arranged at haste when an “emotionally beaten up” Williams confronted Worboys at NSWRU headquarters in Moore Park on August 21 last year. …..

    Read more self-serving flannel from Farr-Jones and his crony Bruce Worboys…
    http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/exwallabies-nick-farrjones-jim-williams-and-bruce-worboys-caught-up-in-learn-earn-legend-loan-controversy-20161103-gsgz0w.html

    [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNdk7Hsj_R0

  6. Adrian 6
    8 November 2016 at 11:24 am

    I note that few have mentioned that the ” best practice” Saudi farm lambs died from amongst other things ” excess rain”. Rain = Saudi Arabia. NZ sheep, even lambs, allergic to rain. Fuck off.
    The bullshit is strong in this one, thinking I. To quote the great Yoda.

    • Cinny 7.1
      8 November 2016 at 1:42 pm

      Nope, I disagree with you Marty. Only because I feel that water is important to all NZ’s, it’s not a pissing competition, whether it’s more important to Maori than others. Let’s all look after the water together.

      Maori party can fight for the Maori rights if they feel justified to do so.

      I’m sick of putting up one race against the other. Water should be protected from big business, not from everyone except Maori.

  8. Cinny 8
    8 November 2016 at 1:38 pm

    Well, well, well this is interesting Winnie is not standing a candidate in the Mt Roskill by-Election.

    Instead he would prefer to concentrate on the 2017 Election. I wonder whom he will advise his party faithful to vote for or not?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/86224563/nz-first-opts-not-to-stand-a-candidate-in-mt-roskill-byelection

    • Richard Rawshark 8.1
      8 November 2016 at 1:55 pm

      The current National government are too corrupt for Winston, he can’t stand them..

      That’s some endorsement right there, if Mr Peters can’t stand the Nats.

      Ex Nat n All.

      My judgement based on Winstons past form is, he won’t. At all , endorse another party, he will, in painting his moral superiority let them decide themselves.

      So gracious is Mr Peters.

    • Richard Rawshark 8.2
      8 November 2016 at 2:00 pm

      This is nice, RE Mt Roskill becoming 2 horse race, for the first time I will see what the new influx of immigration has done to the voting landscape.

      Left or right

      and i’m concerned.

    • The lost sheep 8.3
      8 November 2016 at 2:12 pm

      It’s a simple tactical move to ensure Winnies Northland victory remains the current NZF ‘form’, rather than the absolute thrashing any NZF candidate is going to get in Mt Roskill.

      In 2014 The NZF candidate received 2.1% of the candidate votes, and NZF got 5.3% of the party vote.
      Given Winnies bold claims about NZF’s chances at the next election, some might call this a cowardly failure to front up, but you just have to admire his pragmatic political instincts.

    • Cinny 8.4
      8 November 2016 at 2:58 pm

      Am kinda intrigued by a three horse race between the incoming government aka Red, full of warmth after a cold night just like the rising sun, the outgoing government aka blue, shallow like the outgoing tide and the Indians aka NZPP

  9. save nz 9
    8 November 2016 at 2:14 pm

    Corporate interests seem to trump cultural and sovereign interests…

    “McDonald’s has filed a $20m lawsuit against Florence for blocking a proposed outlet in the city’s most revered square.

    The US fast-food chain said on Monday that it was claiming €17.8m ($19.65m) in damages after the city rejected an application to open an outlet in the historic Piazza del Duomo, one of the most visited places in Europe.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/nov/07/mcdonalds-claims-20m-from-florence-over-piazza-restaurant-rebuff

    • Richard Rawshark 10.1
      8 November 2016 at 2:21 pm

      Without looking. Hash Cookies?

      Seriously though, there are health and safety laws, you can but I believe you must have a health cert for your Kitchen in most countries?

  11. Richard Rawshark 11
    8 November 2016 at 2:19 pm

    What a crack up, The Heralds just burned what’s left of Henry’s ARRRRRSE

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11744321

    Now wait for BM to try the sympathy card again today and tell you his mum’s dying like yesterday..

    Tell it too the Herald, if they care.

    • Cinny 11.1
      8 November 2016 at 3:01 pm

      What does BM claim his Mum is dying from?

      • Richard Rawshark 11.1.1
        8 November 2016 at 3:06 pm

        Apparently BM had heard, (via his inside connections at the GCSB I suppose)

        That Paul’s mum was dying or very ill or something and he was leaving to look after her.

        It was a pathetic right wing distraction, typical of the right when you attack, they start crying.

        Bullies, they can dish it out..

        check the Horray henry post..

      • Richard Rawshark 11.1.2
        8 November 2016 at 3:07 pm

        the comedic answer though would be ear ache.

      • Cinny 11.1.3
        8 November 2016 at 3:18 pm

        Okie dokie, I guess we will find out more on Thursday

      • Naki man 11.1.4
        8 November 2016 at 9:03 pm

        “What does BM claim his Mum is dying from?”
        She is 87 and apparently not very well.

        • Cinny 11.1.4.1
          8 November 2016 at 9:09 pm

          I heard Paulie say on the telly the other morning that she was much better. I wonder whom is correct?

      • Muttonbird 11.1.5
        8 November 2016 at 9:15 pm

        Could it be shame?

    • Psycho Milt 11.2
      8 November 2016 at 3:54 pm

      …he referred to people he didn’t know and had never met as “morons” and “c***s”.

      Er, doesn’t everybody do that?

  12. Richard Rawshark 12
    8 November 2016 at 3:35 pm

    Mr Little just had a tense interview with newshub..

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/politics/andrew-little-attacks-media-over-youth-unemployment-policy-questions-2016110814

    Not swearing today.. Not swearing, happy thoughts. swimming in my pool , making no waves, no ripples nice clam waters..

    • Chuck 12.1
      8 November 2016 at 4:05 pm

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11744342

      “Vance replied 1 News had worked out the shortfall themselves. She also said the issue was that Labour had presented $60 million as the cost for a full six months by omitting to mention that it was based on four months.”

      Vance went on to say – “You didn’t get the numbers wrong, you just weren’t honest about how long you costed it for.”

      And this is the message being kept in the media spot light by Labour!!

    • james 12.2
      8 November 2016 at 4:37 pm

      Thanks for posting that Richie – That interview made my day.

      Hell – Im surprised it was posted at all – hes heading towards full on tanty material.

      Little is handling the press pack like a master.

      Not like he hasn’t got form attacking the press … http://www.newshub.co.nz/nznews/video-andrew-little-snaps-over-chinese-buyer-data-questions-2015072112

      • Richard Rawshark 12.2.1
        8 November 2016 at 4:47 pm

        All I can say is somewhere in the beehive there is a McCully, singing and drunk with joy.

        National with an extremely big bribe to Trevett and Vance secured their desperately needed DEAD CAT

        • james 12.2.1.1
          8 November 2016 at 4:59 pm

          Your statement of fact that there was a bribe is bullshit (as per the norm) .

          but anyway ….

          Truth of the matter is (not unlike yourself) Angry Andy is the master of his own demise.

          Lloyd Burr was asking some reasonable questions – Little just came across as a buffoon.

          And whats leading the news – Labour attacks journalist, and PM says Labour in ‘meltdown’ as Phil Twyford and Andrew Little attack media.

          And this is the highlight of the Labour conference.

          If it wasnt so sad it would be laughable.

          edit – but yeah Mccully will be happy with this.

          • Richard Rawshark 12.2.1.1.1
            8 November 2016 at 5:07 pm

            Your statement of fact that there was a bribe is bullshit (as per the norm) .

            DEAD CAT, it’s a paid for dead cat, this cat is dead. dead I tell you and it cost us all a lot of money. Tax payer money..via more funding , personal interviews whatever..

            No, when in doubt it’ been a great facilitation payment.

            I mean NAT’s the masters of bribing there way out of trouble.

            Wine box..

            or murder.

    • Red 12.3
      8 November 2016 at 4:42 pm

      Man that was terrible from little, just making stuff up, denieing the obvious, digging a hole with every answer plus body language saying it all, -classic angry Andy taking the bait and the media reeling him in Great Tv, newshub will be loving it

      • Red 12.3.1
        8 November 2016 at 4:54 pm

        To use boxing terminology little needs to learn to box out of a corner, cover up , use your feet, move, fake and move. swerve, counter punch , deflect not just stand their and take a pummelling

        • adam 12.3.1.1
          8 November 2016 at 4:58 pm

          Sheesh red, seeing as no one will answer you, you will do it yourself ah.

          Oh how the trolls have fallen…

          • Red 12.3.1.1.1
            8 November 2016 at 5:05 pm

            Mate video speaks for itself I just could not believe the niavity of little, hence the boxing analogy, glad you enjoyed it. I hope your not going to spurt on with your mate Richie defending the indefensible,

          • Richard Rawshark 12.3.1.1.2
            8 November 2016 at 5:17 pm

            He called you mate, mate.

        • Richard Rawshark 12.3.1.2
          8 November 2016 at 4:59 pm

          Do you think he was denying the obvious, what about the shifty eyes and clenched fists, did you see his face go red..,or was he already angry.

          shall I play along with where your going, or should I calm down yet?

          • Red 12.3.1.2.1
            8 November 2016 at 5:06 pm

            Calm down I suggest just a bit of political theatre 😁

            • Richard Rawshark 12.3.1.2.1.1
              8 November 2016 at 5:14 pm

              God if it was me, that news hub reporter would have seen angry. My lord, in reality lets say it was a hatchet job.., just humour me a minute.

              You’d be doing well to keep it cool.., then they carry on after you come out to say your costing was right and that little ..press fella sticks the mike in your face and starts baiting you..

              That’s why I would never do his job. at that point the mike and a part of his anatomy would have met.. Or i’d have just started a big fist fight because I lost it.

              I admire they can remain even slightly calm when stuff like that happens, and it does happen to ALL politicians not just labour.

              • Red …
                8 November 2016 at 5:19 pm

                Agree but the idea is to win the accounter by not loosing your composure by been prepared and controlling your emotions, especially if your auditioning for PM, I think the casting director been the Nz people after seeing that will be saying , thanks for coming, next !

                • mauī …
                  8 November 2016 at 5:24 pm

                  Mate, you’re a profitatrole, you speak for New Zealand as much as any platter of cream puffs would.

                  • Richard Rawshark …
                    8 November 2016 at 6:02 pm

                    Maui, thumbs up mate, that was a classic burn.

                    I shall be storing that one away for an opportune moment to cast it on some unsuspecting troll myself if you don’t mind the plagerism.

                    • Red …
                      8 November 2016 at 7:11 pm

                      What’s a profitatrole,? cream puffs I get but the first sentence I am lost, “classic burn” I am not sure it reaches that high standard in regard to put downs

                    • Stuart Munro …
                      8 November 2016 at 9:46 pm

                      It’s a choux mon petit chou chou.

                  • weka …
                    8 November 2016 at 11:54 pm

                    Best laugh of the day mauī 🙂

      • Cinny 12.3.2
        8 November 2016 at 5:41 pm

        Have you watched/listened to question time today Red?

        The outgoing PMs behaviour was like that of a child, as per usual, beta male, go figures. Carter was getting rather toey with the right of the house, probably because they were being the classless wanna be’s that they truly are.

        Is Alpha Andy making headlines by holding the media accountable? Most excellent.

        Bravo Alpha for calling Gower out, Paddys like the porn queen of nz political media, sniffing around twisting it which ever way he wants. I don’t trust Paddys reporting one little bit.

        News hub will be desperate to change the narrative due to the info being reported about Henry etc, which newshub are choosing not to comment on.

        • Cinny 12.3.2.1
          8 November 2016 at 6:12 pm

          whoops i watched the wrong link lolololz, calling out Gower was in relation to the link you posted Red about chinese buyers.

          But I still stand by my statement that media works will be desperate to change the narrative away from the axing of henry and story. and the comment re Gower being a porn queen, yup i fully stand by that too.

  13. joe90 13
    8 November 2016 at 4:10 pm

    . From Bush down, every single person who had a hand in this should rot in Guantanamo.

    https://news.vice.com/story/james-mitchell-bruce-jessen-cia-torture-program

  14. adam 14
    8 November 2016 at 4:57 pm

    I like reading no right turn , whilst I’m no fan of state sponsored euthanasia. I like Idiot/savants unabashed take on it.

    http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2016/11/duopoly-of-chickenshits.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

  15. Richard Rawshark 15
    8 November 2016 at 5:02 pm

    When your main man who got you off public shame MR Key. Is under threat and you cannot sack him..

    How much does it cost to pay off TV3, were they the cheapest? Did we get value for tax payer money or did National buy this dead cat from their own coffers.

    Murray murray murray.. oh how revolting a slime ball you art.

  16. weka 16
    8 November 2016 at 11:30 pm

    [In order to keep Open Mike and Daily Review free for other conversations, please put all comments, link postings etc about the US election under the dedicated US Election Discussion Post here.]

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