Open Mike 09/04/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 9th, 2017 - 110 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

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110 comments on “Open Mike 09/04/2017”

  1. adam 1

    No wonder great swaths of the USA public are uncritical.

    • Gosman 1.1

      Which country has driven innovation around the aworld for the past Century and longer?

    • Doogs 1.2

      This interview shows the frightening reality of what the neo-libs of our National government want to roll out here. It has already begun in two big ways – NCEA/National Standards, and the promotion of charter schools.

      Governments of this ilk want docility and compliance. They want narrowness of thinking and standards that leave little room for depth of thought, or breadth of understanding. People schooled like that swallow propaganda and do what they are told (1984) and authorities can easily push through agendas to suit themselves and their cronies.

      We need to stand up and defeat this pernicious agenda.

      Schools need the arts – music, dance, painting, drama. They also need proper programmes that promote awareness of the world and the implications for the environment of certain activities, so that alternatives are looked at.

      If we do not push back against this crappy approach to what is cynically called a ‘good’ education, then we are doomed to become bots in a neo-lib world of crushingly oppressive monotony. An overstatement? I don’t think so!

      • adam 1.2.1

        It’s worse than that, my point is shown up rather well by what Gosman put up as a question.

        Exceptionalism, and ideology become the replacement for critical thinking , the engagement of ones brain to solve complex issues, and creativity.

        People keep banging on a bout a golden age of television, but all I’m seeing is some fancy film trick transferred to the small screen, without much in the way of engaging people to think. A reflection or a reality in the face of a population whose education is in perpetual decline? Time will tell.

        • Gosman 1.2.1.1

          Except the evidence for your hypothesis is seriously lacking. We are currently living in the greatest age of innivation and creativity and the US is at the forefront of much of this.

      • Incognito 1.2.2

        Neoliberalism has invaded our thinking and has all but taken over the education of our children, which means that a whole generation has been impregnated and will grow up with neoliberal indoctrination. We raise and educate our children to become self-managers or “entrepreneurs of the self” (Foucault) and teach them that everything has a price and thus anything can be had/owned if one is willing (and able, because of the ‘right’ choices) to pay that price.

        Education is seen as a means to an end, an investment, and each customer-student will need to extract as much value from his/her education as possible, to better him/herself so that (economic) success is (almost) secure in future. Of course, this breeds individualism and diminishes respect for others – who are oft viewed as competitors – and (thus) for authority; all success is only for and because of one self and his/her own efforts. NB The irony is that neoliberals frequently cry out a lot about Law & order

        Even The Kiwi Dream is steeped in neoliberalism and corresponding economic benchmarks with its emphasis on home ownership, a stronger economy with more jobs and higher wages, and world-class education (!) and the success of our kids, for example.

    • BM 1.3

      What’s purpose is served by creating armies of know all angry kids who have no respect for authority and want to spend their lives fighting society?

      Unemployment and misery is the only thing you’ll find if you want to go down that pathway.

      • adam 1.3.1

        And you know this, how? A feeling, a vibe, or some other mystical skill you have developed?

        Or are you saying – Oh wait you did not watch the video – come back when you have, and we will carry on the discussion.

      • AB 1.3.2

        No (automatic) respect for authority is an excellent place to start with education.
        An understanding that respect is to be earned and not given.
        An understanding that respect must have a moral and intellectual justification.

      • SpaceMonkey 1.3.3

        Sounds to me like revolution will be found going down that pathway.

    • So, I watched the first 20 seconds, and here’s an activist who looks like he left school yesterday listing the complaints that young activists have had about every country’s education system since at least the 1960s. Didn’t fill me with the urge to watch any further, but I have to say it is pretty funny to see RT, of all possible TV channels, berating the American education system for inculcating obedience and deference to authority. Oh, the irony…

      • BM 1.4.1

        Same.

      • adam 1.4.2

        As I said about Gosman, you seem to be in the same ilk. Going for exceptionalism, putting your prejudices first, and repeating the party line – rather than engaging your brain. Ironic enough for you…

        • Psycho Milt 1.4.2.1

          As usual, your comment attempts remote amateur psychological assessment, but doesn’t bother actually addressing the points in the comment.

          • adam 1.4.2.1.1

            If you engaged with the material, rather than just pontificate – I’d have somthing to work with. The above case is a classic example, you watch for 20 seconds, then pass judgement.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.5

      According to my sister, a teacher, the best educated people are people who have been home schooled. They’re more stable, have better artistic and creative capability, and they even do better in maths and science. And the parents also become better educated.

      Given this perhaps we should be closing schools altogether and giving full support to home schooling.

      • Psycho Milt 1.5.1

        Oh, great – a return to stay-at-home parenting. Which parent do you figure would be most likely to get saddled with the staying at home to be a teacher?

        • Draco T Bastard 1.5.1.1

          a return to stay-at-home parenting.

          And there’s something wrong with that?

          • Psycho Milt 1.5.1.1.1

            Ask Betty Friedan. Also, if both parents have careers they don’t fancy shelving, there’s plenty wrong with it.

            At a more general level, there’s also lies, damned lies and statistics. Home schoolers tend to be intelligent and well-educated people highly-motivated to educate their kids to a high standard – and the results reflect that. If home schooling was instead something preferred by people at the bottom ends of the intelligence and education bell curves who didn’t really give a shit about education, your sister would be telling you how the worst-educated people are the ones who’ve been home schooled.

            • Draco T Bastard 1.5.1.1.1.1

              Also, if both parents have careers they don’t fancy shelving, there’s plenty wrong with it.

              Then perhaps they shouldn’t have children if they’re not willing to accept the responsibility?

              And I feel real sorry for people who think their careers are all that matters. They have such a limited view of life.

              And then there’s this:

              Plenty of families would like to try it. However, many are held back by the assumption that one parent (likely Mom) would have to stop working. But talk to homeschooling parents and you find that a number are attempting the ultimate “second shift”: building a career while running a small school operation at the same time.

              It sounds crazy, but it’s doable for people committed to the approach. Catherine Gillespie, a marketing consultant, says that combining the two means she earns a good living while “getting to give my kids individualized educations that really meet their needs.”

              Home schoolers tend to be intelligent and well-educated people highly-motivated to educate their kids to a high standard – and the results reflect that.

              To some degree but, IMO, the results more reflect the environment that the children learn in one component of which is that their teacher is actually taking an interest in them.

              And the parents will have to learn as well so even if they start off uneducated they won’t be by the time they’ve got a 10 year old child.

              • Then perhaps they shouldn’t have children if they’re not willing to accept the responsibility?

                Lol 1: you should get together with Pete George downthread.

                Lol 2: is it my responsibility to home doctor my kids as well, or is it OK to outsource that one?

                And I feel real sorry for people who think their careers are all that matters. They have such a limited view of life.

                Well, sure, they sound like terrible people to be around. Fortunately, not wanting to give up your career != thinking your career is all that matters.

                And then there’s this:

                Yep. And, funnily enough, all the parents they talk to who are home schooling their kids and working part-time are women. I’m picking the number of women who’d be enthusiastic about the prospect of having teaching added to their existing child-minding, housework and paid employment jobs would be a fairly small one.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Why are you so insistent that everybody has to work? Think about that one really hard because that is actually what you’re saying.
                  Why are you so insistent that only women can stay home to home school the kids? Perhaps having the men do it will help change the rape culture we have.

                  And, yes, having children is a responsibility. I think it’s a responsibility shared between society and the parents but the parents do hold a lot of that responsibility.

                  And then consider: How many parents with both working could find a couple of hours each day to teach their kids? Yeah, that’s all it takes. All that creativity that home schooled kids have comes from the fact that they spend most of their time playing. Using their minds in a creative manner all the time rather than having it regimented in a box.

                  • Why are you so insistent that everybody has to work?

                    I am? And here I was thinking I was replying to your comment suggesting we should do away with the public education system so that parents have no choice but to educate their children themselves. I’m saying everybody who wants to work should be able to – there’s a difference.

                    But, since you asked – what is the case for people working for a living and contributing to their society beyond simply producing more humans? Because we’re not rabbits, that’s why. If the sum achievement of your life is that you made a few more like yourself, any bacterium or even virus could regard itself as superior. A human should aspire to something a little higher.

                    Why are you so insistent that only women can stay home to home school the kids?

                    It ain’t me that’s insisting, I’m just pointing out the society we have in the real, actually-existing world, as opposed to the one you’d prefer us to have in the realms of ideology.

                    How many parents with both working could find a couple of hours each day to teach their kids?

                    I get the feeling that child-rearing for you is a strictly theoretical concept. For what it’s worth, parents who both work spend the majority of their time caring for and, yes, educating their children. That 45 hours of the week they outsource it is a fraction of the total – even if you just count the awake hours it’s a lot less than half.

      • Janet 1.5.2

        And I am sure that the innovative “Number 8 wire ” approach to things came out of the little country schools which have mostly been closed down now … vanishing with it the “Number 8 wire” innovators.

        • BM 1.5.2.1

          Good.

          We’re no longer a pioneering country cut off from the rest of the world, that do it cheap and half-arsed way of thinking is a liability, not an asset.

          • McFlock 1.5.2.1.1

            It can definitely be an asset.

            I recall a physics experiment that required some shielding: MIT grad students used titanium and all sorts of exotic materials, at great cost and delay.

            Otago replicated the results with cardboard painted black. They might have required two layers of it, though…

            Yeah, you don’t number 8 wire a bridge construction. People die. But it can be appropriate and quicker than conventional solutions. That’s the benefit of diversity.

          • Janet 1.5.2.1.2

            The “number 8 wire ” mentality is the ability to think outside the square. Lateral thinking like this is on the wan and is something that our modern schools have noted and that they are trying to find ways to nurture. With Home schooling there is more opportunity because there is more time to expand a child’s way of thinking and looking at things. Lateral thinkers are a great asset to a country.
            PS. My grandfather did build a bridge with number 8 wire – a swing bridge that he could ride his horse over and drive his modified tractor over ! No body died!

      • tinfoilhat 1.5.3

        🙄 good grief.

      • Johan 1.5.4

        Where is your citation Bastard?

  2. Ad 2

    Any Aucklanders out there who want to hang with the ecologically minded, it’s Eco-Day in New Lynn today. A good track-meet for everyone involved in any campaign of any kind on the left.

  3. The Weatherman 3

    Having a go at a sorcerer is probably a pretty bad idea for the National Party. How about another tornado at your upstream headquarters?

    MSD = GCSB is not so far off. A question begging many answers.

    Wake up.

  4. Johan 4

    New Bill Would Give Israeli Government Full Control of Broadcast Media
    Under legislation being prepared by Communications Ministry, all figures of authority would be appointed by politicians.
    Yes indeed, we’ll give you all the news that we want you to hear and not the news that you need to know, a depressing world wide phenomenon.
    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.776094

  5. Morrissey 5

    “He’s just a conniving hateful bloated punk who despises mankind.”

    No, not Cameron “Fat Slob” Slater. Sean Penn is talking about Steve Bannon…..

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2017/04/08/sean-penn-confirms-steve-bannon-was-a-bitter-hollywood-wannabe_a_22031754/?ncid=edlinkauhpmg00000003

  6. Ad 6

    Interesting to see Phil Twyford indicating that Labour would lower inbound immigration numbers.

    Would be good to see Labour clarify that – there’s plenty of inroads National can make into specific ethnicities if Labour causes anxieties into their traditional immigrant base.

    • saveNZ 6.1

      Even migrants are complaining about the free for all immigration policy in Auckland – those migrants on minimum wages especially – people can no longer even travel around the city to work, god knows whats going to happen with any more people and climate change with all the houses and roads being flooded and falling off cliffs. For every 100 new arrivals we have 2 housing consents at 1 million dollars a pop and 7 houses being out of use due to climate change. Do the maths!

      The dimwits at Auckland Transport are in a nolib meeting about how efficient they are and Phils going on about a billion dollar sports stadium! The Natz want more people in because there is no housing or transport crisis that the free market and deregulation can’t fix… apparently and I guess the hospitals and schools and police just have to suck it up more public funding in 2070…

      • Whispering Kate 6.1.1

        So eloquent SaveNZ, as an Aucklander I couldn’t have explained our situation here any more clearly. In dumb speak, we are up the shit and there’s no clearing the blockage any time soon. In the past 3 years I read or heard recently we have had the population of Tauranga squeezed into our city – doing the sums even for a lackwit anybody can see what a disaster we are heading for. An old fella in the library (older than me) said to me this morning, “don’t worry the Chinese will fix it all up for us” (sarc) .

        Mr Goff doesn’t have a dog show getting any funds out of Central Government. He was saying in a recent interview that our arterial roads now carry more on a daily basis than transit roads and maybe the Government should heed this and place this burden on Transit for funding, I thought to myself dream on Mr Goff. Our city fathers with the exception of Robbie have had no vision for city planning and Government love the money which comes into the city but loathes to help us out.

  7. Stuff Close to 500 Kiwi kids on charity waiting list for basic needs:

    Every winter Sarah* and Mike make the choice between groceries, or clothes for their children.

    Born 14 weeks early, Destiny has a weakened immune system and gets sick easily. Last winter, she missed a whole term of school due to sickness.

    Poverty has been labelled the key driver for respiratory illnesses that are weighing on New Zealand’s economy to the tune of $6 billion each year, according to figures from the Asthma and Respiratory Foundation.

    But with a family of eight, the $500-odd they get from Work and Income and Mark’s part-time job as a teacher aide only goes so far, Sarah said.

    David Farrar makes an obvious point:

    Maybe have fewer kids?
    I am all for a welfare system that allows a couple, no matter their income, to support say a couple of kids. But six kids? Surely there should be some personal responsibility about having more kids than you can afford.

    That’s a fair point.

    But the couple already have eight kids, and those kids didn’t chose to be in large family. The State has no choice but to help support them.

    But perhaps the State could also do more to educate and encourage people to be sensible and responsible about how many babies they have before they become such a problem.

    • Farrar flies regularly around the world on holidays he then blogs about.
      Surely there should be some personal responsibility about having more overseas flights than the planet can afford.
      Maybe have fewer flights?
      Perhaps two?
      For goodness sake, Pete.
      Get a life.

      • Pete George 7.1.1

        I don’t have any problem with my life.

        I thought very carefully about how many children to have, considering things like world population and how to give what kids I had the best opportunities with my resources.

        • Robert Guyton 7.1.1.1

          Good for you. How about leaving everyone else to make their own choices about how many children they have; you and Farrar both;
          “perhaps two”
          How magnanimous!

          • Pete George 7.1.1.1.1

            Of course people should make their own choices, especially about something as fundamental as how many children they have.

            It is best to be a well informed choice about the possible consequences and what will be best for the children, and for the world.

            And it should include an understanding that everything they would like may not be provided for them by the State.

            It would be irresponsible to tell them or give them the impression that others will step in and provide everything if they can’t manage it themselves.

            People will be caught out by changed circumstances – but the risk to children can be mitigated by sensible family planning.

            • Sabine 7.1.1.1.1.1

              Is this what you are talking about? Only have children you can afford? Sensible Family planning?

              Are you then also talking about
              sexual education – the biological kind with how babies are made and born,

              the fund kind – sex, how to, with whom and why, and how to consent

              Birth Controll – the pill, the morning after pill, IUD, condoms?

              Vasectomies and Hysterectomies on demand – non of that ‘but what if you want to have children later’ ‘or your husband/wife might want to have children later”

              abortion – legal and on demand

              or are you one of these compassionate conservatives that advocate abstinence only, and intercourse only for those who are married and then only when procreating?

              How would you want for people to sensibly plan their families? And do you think out PM did, and could our PM afford his children if he were not living and has lived most of his life carefully maintained by the tax payers largesse?

            • marty mars 7.1.1.1.1.2

              You are a fucken idiot Pete George – you just want everyone to be the same boring beige as you – thank the gods you are irrelevant – people like you and your insipid views are what is wrong with this world imo.

      • marty mars 7.1.2

        Yep – sad tired weak right wingers lay their usual disproved lies down like some revelation – pathetic.

        • adam 7.1.2.1

          You know the lie that really gets my goat from the right, is inflation. The refuse to acknowledge that housing has been a run away inflationary nightmare, that has forced the majority of working people, and great swaths of the middle class – into debt.

          But then again, when they can lie about simple things.

    • rhinocrates 7.2

      You can call it what you like but de facto it’s eugenics with a plutocratic paternalistic rationale.

      Let me remind you of a couple who have eight kids and are opposed to birth control. They were so short of money their dad, a lifelong state employee and beneficiary who liked to pretend that he was a farmer had to resort to corrupt double dipping – stealing from the taxpayer – to pay for the lifestyle they wanted.

      If only they’d been better educated…

      You know who I’m talking about, but no, it’s the poor who have to be ‘educated’ to know their proper place – for their own good of course.

    • McFlock 7.3

      Even though you overcounted the kids, no it’s not a fair fucking point.
      Between blended families, changing circumstances and what have you, who the hell knows where we’ll be in three years. House burn down and insurance fuck you around? Factory goes under and you both lose your jobs?

      You and farrar can shove your kid-rationing up your respective arseholes.

      • DoublePlusGood 7.3.1

        Simply put, the planet, and New Zealand, cannot afford for people to be so irresponsible as to have 6+ children, regardless of their personal circumstances.

        • McFlock 7.3.1.1

          ok, so what are you going to do about it: forced sterilisation? Take the kids off them? Let the kids get sick or starve? What about a brady bunch scenario? Would they have an excuse you deem worthy enough to not sniff at then?

          How’s this for an option: economically developed countries tend to have low birthrates, some even below population maintenance. Developing nations have high birthrates. Maybe if we addressed global, regional and local income inequality, the birthrate problem will take care of itself.

          • BM 7.3.1.1.1

            How about no financial help, no DPB etc.
            That will soon focus people’s thinking.

            You could start now be saying that the DPB/WFF is only available for the next 10 years after that you’re on your own.

            • Nic the NZer 7.3.1.1.1.1

              Are you suggesting the DPB/WFF policy dictates the birth rate there? Because I suggest that belief might be ‘barking’.

            • weka 7.3.1.1.1.2

              May as well just chain women to the kitchen and factory and be done with it. If I wasn’t on the phone I’d link to the new Handmaids Tale short.

              • BM

                Good point people in existing relationships who were supporting their children without any financial help get assistance for a set period of time.

                What it boils down to though is if you can afford to have one kid, have one, two have two, etc

                Just don’t keep having kids and expecting the taxpayer to pay you.

                Climate change, automation and extended life are going to be major issues in the near future governments really have to start to think about how many new people they bring into the mix.

                • weka

                  How many people on the DPB currently had all their kids while on the DPB?

                  CC is a real imperative to move to a steady or declining population. But that has nothing to do with individual family size. It’s to do with the ecological footprint that NZ and the planet can sustain. Given NZ is still increasing in population, how do you propose to stop people having kids? Because I’m pretty sure that it’s not the odd woman on the DPB with 6 kids that is causing that rise. So I’d love to hear the plan for restricting NZ’s population, esp the middle classes and 1% era who use up the most resources and pollute the most.

                  • BM

                    I do think people will soon have start to seriously think about automation, sure there’s a hardwired biological urge to breed, but what sort of life are they setting their children up for?

                    It’s getting pretty tough now with everyone needing a degree to even make the first cut for 90% of jobs, massive loan and a shrinking job market, there will be tough times ahead.

                    I have no doubt 50% unemployment will be the norm in the next 20-25 years, there’s going to be massive social upheaval as society adapts to that.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      I have no doubt 50% unemployment will be the norm in the next 20-25 years,

                      Only if we allow the capitalists to remain in charge.

                      If we don’t and change the system the 50% unemployment will be 50% in R&D.

                      R&D is a numbers game. The more people you have in it the more ideas you have to look at and thus the more workable ideas will be found and developed.

                      Unfortunately, NZ puts the numbers into doing more of the same old stuff rather than developing new ideas and that is the result of the capitalists trying to do things on the cheap.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  What a load of lies you tell, and yet still utterly fail to conceal your vile ethics of hatred, judgement and betrayal.

                  The only valid defence for your behaviour is that you are suffering from a physical amygdala-based disability.

                • Nic the NZer

                  Oh, do tell us exactly how many kids you can afford to have. No rounding, we want to know the number and how certain you are able to be about it.

                  Is it 1.41421?
                  Or 2.71828?
                  Or maybe 3.14159?

                • Volunteer your family and friends then bm – let’s start there – you could dob them in to the Ministry cos you think it’s such a great idea.

            • McFlock 7.3.1.1.1.3

              punish the children for the sins of their parents, eh?

            • One Anonymous Bloke 7.3.1.1.1.4

              Nah, I’d rather we defend children against you, without regard to the consequences for you.

            • AB 7.3.1.1.1.5

              BM – you’re a wuss. That’s too long a timeframe. Legalise cannibalism instead. “Eat a hungry kid today” could be the motto.

        • Draco T Bastard 7.3.1.2

          +1

  8. joe90 8

    No shame.

    President Trump ordered a military strike on Syria Thursday night in response to a recent chemical attack. By Friday afternoon, a supportive PAC was fundraising off of the strike.

    “Last night, President Trump ordered military action against Syria in response to their chemical weapons attack,” an email from the Great America PAC, first flagged by Dave Levinthal at the Center for Public Integrity, read.

    “59 United States tomahawk missiles destroyed the airfield used to store Syria’s toxic weapons and aircraft involved in the Sarin gas attack.

    What are your thoughts?”

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/04/07/pro-trump-pac-raising-money-off-syria-strikes.html

  9. Wayne 9

    TLAMs are not really designed to destroy runways. They are used to destroy buildings, aircraft, and vehicles. To destroy a runway requires a concrete penetration bomb to crater the runway. But it is still relatively easy to repair. It is easier to destroy associated infrastructure and of of course the aircraft.

    Nevertheless airbases are actually difficult to knock out completely. They are simply too dispersed, with lots of blast protecting revertments around each building and each aircraft park. Thus each building/aircraft requires a separate direct hit.

    • Sabine 9.1

      all Hail Trump, the defender of the free world.

      • McFlock 9.1.1

        bit of a weird response to a fairly straightforward comment about what different weapons do in the context of current events

        • Sabine 9.1.1.1

          A knife is a knife is a knife.

          What was the supposed outcome, and was it achieved. In the meantime, lets praise dear leader and his awesome weapons. Would be a shame if no one would use them ey?

    • exkiwiforces 9.2

      I’m not really that surprise that air operations have resume at that airbase as it tells me the Syrian Airforce has really good Post- Attack Recovery Drills and flying old Soviet era aircraft such as the Su-22 which is built like a tank and almost flies like one operating from that Airbase. Soviet era aircraft were designed to fly from rough or semi prepare runways or airfields unlike most western built combat aircraft.

  10. mauī 10

    If you’ve got a spare couple of hours, a fascinating youtube discussion by some of the United States best alternative/realist thinkers in my opinion. Very relatable to New Zealand too.

    “This summit brought together an amazing panel that consisted of John Michael Greer, James Howard Kunstler, Chris Martenson, Frank Morris, and Dmitry Orlov to talk about issues ranging from politics, the economy, the food we eat, immigration, labor, poverty, minorities, war, and much more. Please be sure to like and share and stay tuned for more dynamic events from The Center For Progressive Urban Politics!”

  11. joe90 11

    Trump’s gunboat diplomacy.

    A U.S. Navy strike group will be moving toward the western Pacific Ocean near the Korean peninsula, a U.S. official told Reuters on Saturday.

    The moves comes as concerns grow about North Korea’s advancing weapons program. Earlier this month North Korea tested a liquid-fueled Scud missile which only traveled a fraction of its range.

    The Carl Vinson strike group, which includes an aircraft carrier, will make its way from Singapore toward the Korean peninsula, according to the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/usa-navy-korea-idUSL1N1HG0LO

  12. joe90 12

    Actual nazis proud of Trump’s nazi.

    BUDAPEST, Hungary — A group with alleged historical links to Nazi Germany has told NBC News it was “proud” when President Donald Trump’s deputy assistant wore its medal.

    Controversy has swirled around Sebastian Gorka, one of Trump’s top counterterrorism advisers, ever since he attended the president’s Jan. 20 Inaugural Ball wearing the honorary medal of Hungarian nationalist organization Vitezi Rend.

    NBC News traveled to Hungary to dig deeper into Gorka’s ties with the group, speaking with members of the organization as well as with locals who knew him when he lived there.

    “When he appeared on U.S. television … with the medal of the Vitez Order … it made me really proud,” Vitezi Rend spokesman Andras Horvath said in the Hungarian capital of Budapest. Vitezi Rend is also known as the Order of Vitez.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/sebastian-gorka-made-nazi-linked-vitezi-rend-proud-wearing-its-n742851

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    2 weeks ago
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    2 weeks ago
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