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Open Mike 10/02/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, February 10th, 2019 - 102 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

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Step up to the mike …

102 comments on “Open Mike 10/02/2019 ”

  1. Fireblade 1

    The mobile site isn’t working properly. The layout is all messed up.

    • I understand Lprent is trying to sort it out, Fireblade.

    • lprent 1.2

      Umm I can’t see it.

      However I’ve just removed the caching module that got added. Try again.

      • Fireblade 1.2.1

        It’s working now thanks.

        • lprent

          Most likely the caching or the cdn.

          I’ll try to figure that out later. But it shouldn’t really matter. The http2 should be all that is required. It will just be a bit slower.

          I wish I could figure out the issue with chrome and spark (probably vodafone as well) and the mobile version. Since I switched the site to http2 with fallbacks down to http/1.1, the mobile site doesn’t come up on mobile data.

          It stalls and eventually reports an error of ERR_SPDY_SERVER_REFUSED_STREAM. Damned if I can see it even asking.

          Apparently this is a known bug with some versions of chrome on android (?) and actually has something to with a client side cache. Happens on my S8+ phone. Doesn’t happen on my partner’s iphone (grumble). Happens on 1 out of 3 models of tablets. Goes away when I run out via a VPN over mobile data…. Damn annoying.

          I can’t get any leverage on it.

          Working on the search engine at present – but I may need to find some food.

          • Fireblade

            I don’t know if it helps, but I’m using an Oppo AX5 Smartphone, Android 8.1 and Chrome on 2degrees. I tried using my Opera browser, but it had the same problem.

            • lprent

              Always useful to know.

              Damned if I know what it is. Works fine (as far as I can tell) when any wifi that isn’t cell based to the network.

              Personally I think it is some bad caching at the cell operators when they are dealing with http2.

              I might have a look at the signatures and see if there is anything obvious.

  2. greywarshark 2

    I have been listening to Duncan Garner on Mediawatch to an interviewee who referred to the frail, the sick, the elderly was mentioned and Garner pharmac damned. He uses a fast and staccato speech style which carries urgency and demands acceptance of his opinions as correct. He is a demagogue, which is regarded as applying to a political leader usually, but he of course is through the elevated media position he has, actually a political leader, just not with responsibilities of one.

    He was making demands for more spending on cancer treatment building on some report that says we get less than elsewhere and people live longer in other countries. For instance, for extending life for the terminally ill as for Stage 4 breast cancer victims who on world figures live for about three years from diagnosis but only 16 months in NZ. So the wish for others is to keep dying people alive by taking money from the health system for increasingly expensive drugs and treatment so people can put off death for another 12 months?

    It should be noted also that there is no or little funding for hospices which look after people who are dying. The pressure is for spending on treatment and medication and prolongation of life at the end of it at whatever age. We can’t afford to have pressure groups focussing on their own individual demands, to the detriment of spending that goes towards the poorer groups, the working age, and general public health availability to these people.

    • Incognito 2.1

      Thanks for that link.

      Here’s another article that is very informative (and long-ish) but won’t suit Garner’s narrative: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/110469300/why-cancer-treatment-runs-the-risk-of-becoming-unaffordable

      It’s also sobering and not necessarily what people want to hear, especially not people with cancer. Duncan Garner knows that and plays on it, but that’s his job. I’d say, change his job description.

    • millsy 2.2

      “…So the wish for others is to keep dying people alive by taking money from the health system for increasingly expensive drugs and treatment so people can put off death for another 12 month..”

      More like take money from chronically ill beneficaries (ie dialysis, empyshema/COPD etc) and divert to expensive drugs for middle class ‘battlers’ who ‘work hard and pay their taxes’. This is what Garner and those who listen to him, actually think. We are listening to one great dog whistle.

      • greywarshark 2.2.1

        I note your point. There seems to be matters that receive attention and some that don’t. Hospices get a lot of attention because everybody dies and it is a much needed thing that government avoids funding so local women enjoy charity fund raising. Also cancer has done a great swing-around from the scary thing to be spoken of as the old ‘c’word, and people with it being avoided as if it was catching. Now they have well-funded charity marches and vigils.

        The ones you state are rarer and perhaps have had a bad press, connected with overuse of alcohol, wrong food and too much weight, too much cigarette smoking or having worked at the coalface of some physical job (physical being out at present except when firefighters are being lauded for their sacrifices – probably the most-trusted people in NZ – they had better do a charity drive before everyone settles back into their default positions of self-interest).

        There was an example of how the chattering classes view everyone else about a decade ago. A certain well-known dress designer was quoted as putting down the people who are always going to hospital and costing the country. She herself apparently had a daughter who was diabetic and wouldn’t stick to her maintenance diet and was hospitalised (avoidably) as a result and had to have the point made that her girl was one costing the country money through not looking after her own health. Duncan Garner is just another who can only feel sympathy for himself and his own, but is so entitled to the best treatment.

  3. Cinny 4

    Fire update….

    Farmers, contractors and anyone using certain types of outdoor machinery in part of the Nelson Tasman region will need to defer their activities because of the extreme fire danger, as indicated on the attached map identifying Nelson and the Waimea and Motueka valleys.


    Please spread the word…. thanks 🙂

    • veutoviper 4.1

      Thanks for the updates Cinny. Keep safe all of you over in the Tasman area.

      Here in Wellington everything is also tinder dry and we had a fire on the Wadestown hill above the CBD on Friday, requiring helicopters, monsoon buckets etc.

      Also on Friday (8 Feb) a total fire ban was declared (everything except gas BBQs) with lots of fanfare, announcements on radio, etc.

      AND THEN … 9pm Saturday night (9 Feb) they went ahead with almost an hour of formal pubic fireworks to celebrate Chinese New Year over the harbour, just a stones throw from the CBD and Wadestown hill, Mt Victora etc – not to mention Matiu Somes Island scientific and historical reserve in the harbour itself.

      I couldn’t believe it! Will be having ‘words’ to say to a local who works for the Wellington Emergency Management Office.

      • cleangreen 4.1.1

        Dirty little secret has just come out in Napier;

        ‘Dirty water’ in Napier from 2017;

        So we are possibly the worst polluted city in NZ now as the truck volumes through the city are killing the residential “amenity values” there, and now the truck volumes are going to increase 187% in the next eight years according to a report from the Napier Port and NZTA.


        Apparently lots of folks living near the truck routes through the city now cant sleep through the night as trucks run through that city all night and all day.

        YEAR 2017
        Last updated:9/01/2018
        DateAddressAreaRequest details1239/01/2017Robinson CrescentTamateaDirty water – please flush #442 called410/01/2017Galway StreetTamateaHe has been getting black particles in his water on and off for several weeks, black floaties were particularly bad today511/01/2017Lamason StreetGreenmeadowsShe has very low water pressure in her shower, please check if private or council67 819/01/2017Kennedy RoadOnekawaTheir water is starting to taste funny and requires a flush in the main pipe. This is a reoccuring problem and they often have to call ever 2-3 months.920/01/2017

  4. joe90 5

    Actual fake news.

    The photo was uploaded in June 2017. Tienditas Bridge, reported throughout the media as blocked by Venezuela this week, has in fact been blocked for at least 18 months!There is also a Wikipedia article on Tienditas Bridge (in Spanish). It says of the bridge (translated to English with Google Translate):

    It was concluded in early 2016, but due to the crisis between Venezuela and Colombia in 2015 and the border closure of Venezuela the bridge has not been officially opened.

    This is backed up by a reference to an article from La Opinion, a local news site of Cúcuta in Colombia (also in Spanish), which states:

    Sheltered by an old rusty gate and a guard, this binational work is still useless because of the border situation, despite the fact that the Invias has already completed 100 percent of the route.


  5. greywarshark 6

    RIP – Your God rest your soul.
    Palestinian prisoner Fares Baroud, 51, from al-Shati refugee camp in Gaza, died on Wednesday, 6 February only hours after being suddenly transferred to intensive care from Ramon prison. Baroud …

    The Israelis continue in unrest. When will they hold a commemoration of the past for them and Palestinians, weep for man’s inhumanity to man and woman and child, and apologise for what Israelis have been guilty of, and also the Palestinians of their transgressions, and both sit down to work our humane conditions for all? Then Israelis can start on reaching rest, and a situation of forgiveness for transgression by either side, with apology and suitable mild atonement.

  6. joe90 7


    The UK launch branch of Turning Point, a right-wing student movement for “free markets, limited government and public responsibility”, has just launched on Twitter but it hasn’t gone entirely to plan.
    Turning Point, which has the backing of Nigel Farage and Jacob Rees-Mogg (so it must be good) launched as @TPointUK on Twitter and is keen to reassure its followers that young people can be right wing too.


  7. Good article.

    “The characterisation of racism as “primal” goes to the heart of what racism is and what it is not. Racism is not primal or instinctive. That second question Neeson asked his friend of her attacker was: “What colour were they?” This is not an innate reaction, it is learned, imbibed from society. Because racism is not like jealousy or selfishness, it is not a primal urge or a basic instinct, it is a 400-year-old political and economic system that has infected our institutions, our culture and even our thinking. It is a system that has been and is today being held in place by violence and through collective punishment.”


  8. The Sustainable New Zealand Party has launched.

    “We want to create a new political party based upon the principles of sustainability – one prepared to deal with either the National Party or the Labour Party in coalition negotiations – to leverage policies that will underpin a more Sustainable New Zealand.

    “New Zealand deserves a political party that will work together with the innovators in business and science who will lead the way through the complex and interconnected sustainability challenges of the coming century.”


    • Incognito 9.1

      I clicked on the link and read the Who Are We? and am none the wiser. So, obviously, they are not keen on being open & transparent but love to get my personal details and me registering my interest.

      The privacy note at the bottom fortunately has a phone number …

      • Anne 9.1.1

        Alarm bells are ringing:

        This is what they (whoever they are) have to say about the Greens:

        The Green Party has made a deliberate decision not to use the leverage that comes with the number of MPs they have in Parliament. Instead of negotiating with both major parties, they have made a decision to always support the formation of a Labour Government meaning that Labour can take them for granted. This is no way to get the best deal for the environment.

        Having given away their negotiating advantage, they are in a weak position to demand funding for cleaner beaches and rivers, for modern sewage infrastructure in major cities, for sustainable management of our fisheries, a major upgrade in predator control, nor for the significant increases in science and research funding that will underwrite a modern, sustainable economy.

        The Greens have a historic tendency to be suspicious of scientific innovation – particularly in biotechnology – and hostile to business. New Zealand deserves a political party that will work together with the innovators in business and science who will lead the way through the complex and interconnected sustainability challenges of the coming century.

        I know its frowned on to quote lengthy excerpts but in my view, this piece of the thread is a dead giveaway.

        It’s full of huge holes and reads to me as just another attempt to discredit the Greens. I suspect there’s a lot more to this “launch” than meets the eye and I’m looking forward to finding out who the launchers are, and what is their political background.

        • Psycho Milt

          Haven’t visited their site, but the bit you’ve quoted is a collection of National Party talking points, so they might as well just call it the Astroturf Party.

      • veutoviper 9.1.2

        Well, I certainly would not and won’t be registering an interest with this or any other organisation, party etc unless I have much more as to who is involved.

        Pete commented here giving the link etc but he missed a bit of information which he included in his own post on YourNZ, ie:


        “Sustainable New Zealand Party seeks registrations of interest

        A website seeking registrations of interest for the Sustainable New Zealand Party is online. Vernon Tava is promoting it.

        Then this tweet from Tava –

        “We need a Sustainable New Zealand party, able to work with all sides of politics for a truly sustainable environment, economy, society and culture. http://votesustainable.nz

        Not much enthusiasm in the few replies so far, but early days. Similarly not much in the four comments on Pete’s post but one of his regulars has registered interest so we may find out something via that source later.

        • Anne

          Okay, Vernon Tava.

          So, he made a bid for the leadership of the Greens and lost. Sour grapes? I expect so – at least in part.

          In my youthful days we had a nickname for upper middle class twats. We called them Weeds. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but my usually reasonably accurate antennae tells me this is exactly what he is.

          • veutoviper

            But you can smoke some types of weed … LOL

            Seriously, I don/t think that guy is going anywhere and this will be a flash in a pan. Hope I am not wrong.

          • Muttonbird

            Vernon Tava is Nick Leggett version 1.1 and what is Nick Leggett doing right now? Not changing the world, that’s for sure.

        • Incognito

          Check out that phone number I mentioned.

      • Muttonbird 9.1.3

        I found it amazing a party would launch with absolutely zero details about who was launching it.

        It’s a frank admission by this latest right wing offshoot that they have no one interesting enough involved to even name a leader.

        They also claimed they were able to work with Labour but then proceeded to attack Labour.

        Not a good start.

    • WeTheBleeple 9.2

      “Business and science who will lead the way”

      Sustainable party…

      “sustainable oceans”


    • Rapunzel 9.3

      “{one prepared to deal with either the National Party or the Labour Party in coalition negotiations ”
      Is that right? Mr Tava has said he has had “no input whatsoever” or words to that effect from the “National Party”, that itself is an odd question to have to answer. 18+ months is going to be, given the number of leaks of late, a long 18 months to keep clear boundaries as to integrity of the motivation.

      Something smells to me like a rat.

      I’m really sorry but my gut feeling is this is not a truly independent, genuine and unbiased political movement for the reasons stated and the way it is being marketed. To me it is just a cheap ploy to ensure a National-led government in 2020 in the guise of something blue-greenish to get that wedge of votes over the hard-core Nationla Party base of the tight, few I believe will be sucked in.

    • cleangreen 9.4

      Tinge of trickery there Pete, “leverage” means something like “distort”?
      *’To leverage policies that will underpin a more Sustainable New Zealand.’

      They look as if they are planing to using ‘industry modeled studies’- that are ‘cherry picked” to look convincing’ is what National did during their time to sell their ‘warped policies.’

      We saw that with ‘big tobacco ‘ and ‘big oil’ Horizon and the Alaska oils spilling sagas while they were actively selling their snake oil policies that way as others have done since then also.

      I think that ‘The Sustainable New Zealand Party’ is another spin off of the “opportunities party” coming back again.

    • millsy 9.5

      We already have TOP as a blue green party. I don’t honestly know why National cannot just take over that party.

  9. Observer Tokoroa 10

    The Majesty of Simon

    Look, apart from Simon screaming like a little Boy in the House of Parliament, we have to acknowledge that he has wonderful skills in granting women seats in Parliament.

    Strange Women. like the Leopard Dresser. Not forgetting the Bully from hell hole Wairarapa.

    Then there is the Lady with Lust for Murder. Whom Simon supports with Mind and Heart. Mrs Dowie. He shares a cruel streak with her and her splendid art of cover up. She does not go without Pleasures.

    I also like the way Simon wears a floor scraping Long Black Coat. He has declared his manic love for Trump. And will build a wall around Chatham Islands next Year.As a tribute to the Maori. Whom he says he adores.

    Maori will love it down there with Hillary.

  10. Observer Tokoroa 11

    I sincerely Apologise

    Simom Was going to build 12 Bridges up North. The Fool let all the Northerners down.

    He has entirely forgotten what bridges look like. And also he does not like work.

    He loves putting his strange women in seats. An effort he likes, but which he constantly gets wrong.

    The Last person he put into Parliament was not a Girl but a Military bloke (a Spy) all the way from China – who gave Simon, so it is said, a lot of Dosh. But the Police are looking into Mrs Dowie.

    Why wouldn’t they ?

  11. Bazza64 12

    Alexandra Orcazio-Cortez has a good moment giving members of US government a grilling about financial transparency & how the president doesn’t have to have the ethical disclosures that members of Congress do. Now her New Green Deal has been released showing how they would be making payments to include those unwilling to work. Not sure if this is just a RW beat up, but she now admits it was a draft version that shouldn’t have been released.

  12. Grantoc 13


    Mental health is obviously important. And both major parties look like they’re taking it more seriously than in the past.

    However I think your commentary today on National and mental health issues is simply a cynical ploy to distract your audience away from the failure of Labour to address and deliver on their promises to the electorate.

    Rather than directing your readers to once more salivate on the misfortunes and misadventures of JL Ross (whom you and your acolytes don’t give a jot) and his desperate attempts to undermine Simon Bridges, a more important debate to be had by the Labour party and your readers is to address such issues as:

    – the failure of KiwiBuild
    – the pork barrel politics of Shane Jones.
    – the challenges of making significant changes to tax policy and employment relations policies.
    – Clean water and Maori water rights
    – the difficulties that are and will increasingly occur between Labour and NZ First
    – Cancer treatment

    The list goes on…..

    [lprent: Read the policy about your suggestions. It is in the section about self-martyrdom.

    Can I suggest that rather than being your usual useless self parroting whatever someone else said somewhere actually learn to discuss what you think in OpenMike. That is what it is there for. BTW: has an opposition MP been instructing you recently on what to say? Because those sure sound like talking points a National MP would parrot from a PR junior.

    Banned for 2 weeks for not reading the policy. ]

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • BM 13.1

      Certainly, make The Standard a far more interesting site, at the moment it’s a bit of a borefest.

    • patricia bremner 13.2

      Grantoc, When did changing a target become a failure? That is evaluating a changing market.

      Pork Barrel Politics means paying people to vote for you.
      So you are saying Shane Jones is giving money to regions for their vote?? You don’t think the regions have been starved of investment up until now? That they have to prove they have a need or a project needing finance , and that lines up with votes for Jones? Convoluted nonsense.

      This Government is tackling unfair tax Good for them!!
      They are working at taking enough parties to support the Working Relationship Bill.

      National telling Labour about water quality? Nick Smith? LOL LOL
      Maori Water Rights, 9 years and National did Diddly Squat!! Labour 1 year.
      Cancer treatments, are always under review, as treatments and money become available.
      You obviously read Hoskins… hopeful of dissension. Not going to happen. This is a distraction from the post on Mental Health but I couldn’t let it go.
      Iprent I was slow getting this reply off.

      • cleangreen 13.2.1

        100% Patricia the regions were sucked dry by National for their grandiose “roads of National Significance” that almost bankrupted us all.

        Still they have yet to meet the criteria (CBR) ‘cost benefit ratio’, to pay their way as rail was forced to do and if rail didn’t they were closing half the regional railways down.

    • – the failure of KiwiBuild
      – the pork barrel politics of Shane Jones.
      – the challenges of making significant changes to tax policy and employment relations policies.
      – Clean water and Maori water rights
      – the difficulties that are and will increasingly occur between Labour and NZ First
      – Cancer treatment

      Sure they may be National talking points, but they are also talking points across the media and some of the more damning criticism of the Government failure to deliver on big promises is coming from the left.

      The news yesterday from RNZ that the mental health working group, set up to address a claimed crisis in 2017, has now morphed into nine working groups. I’m sure it’s not just National pointedly talking about that.


      • Ad 13.3.1

        It’s really important that the left hold this government to account.

        The government are in a media hole that only pre-budget announcements can get them out of. And Prime Minister Ardern, who just makes it look largely effortless.

        It’s already looking like a long, long set of days to May 17th.

        • BM

          Balls in your court fella.

          If you’ve got the time, write a few posts around labour policy, transport, housing well-being budget etc.

          Be critical, be positive, keep it short, waffle, doesn’t really matter, the whole objective of a post on the standard is to just kick off a discussion.

  13. Observer Tokoroa 14

    The People who Hate the Poor

    It seems to me that “the Standard” has been completely taken over by the national trolls. The people who Hate the People.

    This will have been a strategy governed and presented by the likes of a David Farar, The Herald , Hosking and other grubby powerless gnomes.

    Micky Savage and Te Reo Putake are Honest men . They should not have to be smothered by ill born Trolls who have never contributed anything to New Zealand. It is a mockery Of everything the Standard stands For.

    Worse, they have drowned most Kiwis in low low wages. High Rentals and a hopeless outlook for the Future. Everything is bleak because of what National has not done.

    National will pay a huge Price for destroying the noble Poor – and the people likes of a Farar and Key and Bridges who did it to them.

    It is time The Standard was protected from rank Evil.

    • Bazza64 14.1

      Not sure why you include the Herald in this lot. They have a wide range of columnists from Leighton Smith to Lizzie Marvelly. RW,s think Herald is a LW rag & LW think the opposite, so maybe they are balanced ?

      • In Vino 14.1.1

        No, I have a lordly oversight of the whole scene, and I can assure you that the Herald is largely skewed towards the Right, with a few token Lefties as a façade of impartiality. Eat it. If you disagree, it is because you are biased to the Right. The surprising thing about many right-wingers is that they are so ignorant of leftist concepts that they think themselves neutral, when they are in fact biased to the right. But they just don’t know it, and have no understanding of their own inbuilt bias.
        Lefties tend to be more introspective, and analyse their own motives/knowledge/emotions more deeply.

        • Bazza64

          In Vino (self appointed Lordly one) I ate it & it was delicious !! I guess by your definition I must be RW – wouldn’t say biased to the right, more centre slightly right, but will take each argument based on its merits. Don’t think most RWs are ignorant of leftist concepts, problem is leftist concepts cover a wide range from higher minimum wage (which I generally agree with) to full blown state control of businesses.

  14. Observer Tokoroa 15

    Hi BM

    I thankyou for your words

    But every time you guys hit Twyford below the belt, the Poor say out loud Why didn’t lousy BM build some decent Houses.

    He has been around for ages and done nothing. He is a stuff Nothing.

    Got it BM – you have done Nothing

    • BM 15.1

      Twyford isn’t building houses, all he’s doing is buying places that aren’t selling.

      All he’s doing is propping up the over-inflated property market and keeping prices high.

      Ask yourself why this government is doing that and what it means?

      • Charlie 15.1.1

        It means you know nothing about what is happening in the housing market and what this government is doing to fix it, troll.

  15. Observer Tokoroa 16

    Hi Bazza64

    Exactly when did The Herald support the massive poor of New Zealand ?

    The Low low Waged Workers; The hugely expensive Rentals – paid by the Poor. The slums inside the Rentals. When did the Herald ever do anything about it.

    When did they drive the known Crooks to the Court ? Pray tell me.

    Bazza64 – you have never done anything of Balance for New Zealand. But you could do something if you wanted. You could declare National as wrong and sadistic.

    • Bazza64 16.1

      OT – I thought the NZ Herald had covered a lot of stories about the housing problems experienced by lower income NZers. They also covered issues re low paid workers & the issue of the minimum wage. Not sure who the known crooks are, maybe you could name them ?

      Your statement that I have never done anything of balance for NZ is a bit wierd, not even sure what you mean by that.

    • Bazza64 16.2

      I guess the Herald could drive the known crooks to court, would you prefer they transported them in electric powered vehicles ?

  16. Observer Tokoroa 17

    Hi BM

    Then tell Phil what to do. You have done nothing.

    You are so much better than him. You have been around for years and let havoc run rabid. But you are National.

  17. Muttonbird 18

    All the criticism building up around tywford and kiwi build needs to be responded to swiftly and harshly

    – Ankerrawshark

    This from the Ross taunts Bridges post.

    Bold, socially conscious policy which isn’t quite working deserves constructive criticism in order to help it get there.

    What does need to be responded to swiftly and harshly is fake news from National MPs and from their dishonest followers.

    The slack and lazy comment from Bridges claiming the government wants to abolish all Polytechnics under a Venezuela model is one.

    The flat out lie from alwyn of this forum claiming six Kiwibuild properties in Wanaka are now on the open market is another.

    These are the lies which need to be stomped on severely and the rodents which speak them held up as dishonest and corrupt.

    • “The flat out lie from alwyn of this forum claiming six Kiwibuild properties in Wanaka are now on the open market is another.”

      ODT yesterday: Six KiwiBuild houses in Northlake still on the market

      Just four of the 10 KiwiBuild houses in Wanaka’s Northlake subdivision have been sold.

      In November, Kiwibuild announced families were in the process of buying seven of the houses.

      However, Kiwibuild spokesman Clint Smith told the Otago Daily Times yesterday: “as with all property sales, some of the time purchases don’t end up being completed”.

      The six unsold houses — four completed three-bedroom houses and two completed two-bedroom houses — are now on the market at prices ranging from $565,000 to $645,000.

      The 10 Kiwibuild houses at Northlake were the first built outside Auckland and were initially offered in a ballot.

      A lack of interest from buyers led to the ballot being extended by 10 days. A ballot is now not part of the sales process.


      • Muttonbird 18.1.1


        These six houses are not on the open market as claimed by alwyn. Buyers must be eligible for Kiwibuild criteria as has always been the case.

        Now, you can argue whether that criteria is wrong, and the plain fact of the matter is that the families who want affordable housing such as this are locked out because of trouble accessing sufficient credit. But the fact of the matter is that alwyn lied and didn’t retract and now you are at risk of doing the same.

        • Incognito

          That reminds me that I should really reply to Alwyn as it would be rude not to 😉

        • Pete George

          How can I be at risk of lying? All I have done is put relevant information into the discussion.

          I don’t know what Alwyn said, because you just made an accusation with no quote or link.

          • Muttonbird

            You have put irrelevant information into the discussion.

            No need for a link. alwyn said these homes were now on the open market. Do you or do you not agree with that statement?

    • Muttonbird: “The flat out lie from alwyn of this forum claiming six Kiwibuild properties in Wanaka are now on the open market is another.”

      Stuff: Six Wanaka KiwiBuild houses on open market

      KiwiBuild homes that did not sell in the ballot in Wanaka are now being offered to the public.

      It was reported in November that three of the 10 offered for sale in the Northlake development had gone to buyers drawn from the KiwiBuild ballot.

      But now six finished properties are listed for sale. Although buyers will not have to go through a ballot to purchase them, they still must meet KiwiBuild purchase criteria.

      Will you retract and apologise?

      • Muttonbird 18.2.1

        Er, no. The Stuff headline is wrong too. You have even quoted the relevant sentence:

        Although buyers will not have to go through a ballot to purchase them, they still must meet KiwiBuild purchase criteria.

        Please read it again an then consider whether this constitutes the open market. Bear in mind Kiwibuild criteria says you must be a first homebuyer or in a similar position, and you must also be within certain income limits.

        Or, perhaps the next thing you will try to do is argue the definition of open market?

        • Pete George

          Stuff seem to think that the houses are now on the open market as long as buyers qualify. I guess it depends on how you define ‘open market’.

          Pretty much no property offered for sale is open to anyone to buy. For example if you want to buy at auction you have to qualify and register in advance.

          • Muttonbird

            A ridiculous defence, and I even predicted it.

            It’s the same kind of defence Wayne Mapp used when claiming Simon Bridges didn’t literally mean the government was using a Venezuela model for the vocational training sector when he said exactly that.

            I think this is why most Kiwis have lost trust in the National Party and their supporters.

          • McFlock

            Everybody had to qualify to enter the ballot.
            The same qualifications they have to meet to buy the place.
            The criteria have not been widened. The ballot has simply been replaced with “first come, first served”.

            Maybe, after a while of not selling, those criteria will be relaxed. Until that happens you, Stuff, and Alwyn are all factually incorrect.

            I’m not sure anyone cares whether this is due to intentional deceit, carelessness, or stupidity.

            • Muttonbird

              I think it’s important to call out intentional deceit, carelessness, and stupidity.

              alwyn displays all three.

              Kiwibuild is still alive and is definitely worth the commitment despite problems getting going and targeting what it is supposed to target. But the day one of these houses does go on the open market then my voice will be heard as loud as alwyn’s I can assure you.

            • Pete George

              I think it’s stupid to be making a fuss over what ‘open market’ means. It may be just a diversion from the real issue – that six out of ten houses in Wanaka couldn’t be sold using the normal Kiwibuild process. It appears that ‘affordable’ was a sales pitch that hasn’t lived up to hype.

              • Robert Guyton

                Debating with Pete George is like whacking a piñata – the best strategy is to ignore the frilly paper animal and go for the groin of the bloke holding the string.

              • Muttonbird

                They couldn’t be sold because first home buyers still have difficulty accessing credit. These houses are 2/3rds the Queenstown Lakes median of $913K so they are most certainly affordable according to the stats. They are not affordable to real families however.

                Pete. you have been pulled up on this style of shifting the argument here before and been banned several times for it.

                Just don’t do it and admit you got it wrong. No one will think any less of you if that is at all possible.

              • McFlock

                If it’s stupid to make a fuss over it, don’t bother defending your use of the term. Say “fair enough” and move on, and avoid making that mistake in future.

  18. Muttonbird 19

    Bridges is one who changes his values when it is politically expedient to do so.


    What a fake.

    • millsy 19.1

      To be fair, NZ was still a pretty homophobic country in 1994, and most kiwi’s still held that view.

      Parliament had the likes of Graeme Lee (National) and Geoff Braybrooke (Labour) whom opposed LGBT rights.

      • Muttonbird 19.1.1

        The marriage equality amendment was passed 77-44 in 2013 and Bridges voted against it.

        Hardly a lifetime ago.

  19. Robert Guyton 21

    That “new” party?
    “It means meeting the needs of the present without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs. ”


  20. sumsuch 22

    Fortress New Zealand is our way to deal with the world crisis. Sure we needed the world, but we can feed ourselves, and with their money put up a military defence to go along with our distance from’m. If we stick together we don’t need to go down alone. The back country can only support so many — our best hope is NZ solidarity.

  21. Observer Tokoroa 23

    The Fallen Blog
    The Standard has fallen to the Trolls. It belongs in reality to Whomever the Trolls want.

    The National Party has done Nothing for New Zealand for Years! Not only did it do nothing for years it slammed additional burden on the noble people who do the work in this National destroyed Land.

    The Trolls know it all. – Sir John Key – he the molester of little Blonde Girls hair, slammed up the Gst which affects the poor very seriously, on taking the up the Role of leader of National. He raised the Costs of energy …and so on.

    He then went further and Flogged off the few Assets that New Zealand had. His submissve little “I will do anything you want John” Billy English, sold up as much Housing as he could find to FOREIGNERS.

    The Two of them stripped and denuded any possible asset NZ had. the Banks belong to Ozzie. the Forests belong to Ozzie. The Parking Stations belong to Korea. the keyholes belong to nobody here. Key sent money to mates in Saudi Arabia.

    You want fish ? you can’t afford it . It belongs to FOREIGNERS. You want meat ? – you cant afford it – it belongs to FOREIGNERS. You want Cheese – you can’t afford it. It belongs to FOREIGNERS.

    You want a tertiary Education – you can’t afford it. Firstly John Key has Ducked up the Price of Housing and Rentals all over the country – massively. Secondly the Kids can’t afford the exorbitant Fees. John is busy pulling the hair of a cafe assistant. Until his wife belatedly tells him to leave the young woman alone .The Rat.

    John key never paid fees. The slippery eh.

    John Key followers are the Trolls on here. Complete with Key / English lies.

    Bye Bye Sanity. Bring on Troll Horror, Courtesy of the Dumb National non achievers.

    • Stunned Mullet 23.1

      Are you Ok OT ? That’s a really dark post for early in the morning.

      Take care and some time out just for you if you need it.

  22. Observer Tokoroa 24

    Hi stunned Mullet

    Don’t worry about me. Worry about the destruction of New Zealand carried out by your mates.

    Your National Party is filth. Unbridled Filth. We all know that National will never rise again. Filth never does.

    I hope your offspring don’t get caught up in The Key/English Destruction game – whereby no person can own a home or afford a Rental.

    Only FOREIGNERS can own anything here. Stunned Mullet. As you well know. You Bastards.

    • Stunned Mullet 24.1

      Hi OT

      “Your National Party is filth”

      The are not my National party.

      “Only FOREIGNERS can own anything here. Stunned Mullet. As you well know. You Bastards.”

      I’m sure you know that’s demonstrably false, the majority of property both private and public in NZ is owned by NZers.

      As I said previously take care and some time out just for you if you need it, I hardly post of visit this site anymore and I can assure you it’s good to take time out from it every now and then.

  23. Observer Tokoroa 25

    Thank you for your good advice.

    I spoke sharply to you – and I regret it. It’s just that a Nation full of Trolls who hate the Workers and the Poor is not my scene.

    Again- thank you.

  24. Eco Maori 26

    Kia ora Newshub the changes to Kiwisaver the extra pay in brackets up to ten %. It needs to be made compolsery opt out default 8% and the commission that is made for managing the funds should be capped at 2 %. I know who votes for Simon.
    Some ones mannerisms is improving.
    Its cool that there has been rain in Nelson /Tasman overnight.
    shonky conned NZ he give billions to the 00.1 % scraped all the environment laws so all our trees got cut down early the dairy boom has ruined our water ways he shorted our housing market for his banker M8 ran down all our state services and had people selling dairydack from the local shop killing people imported foreign farm workers who displaced the Maori farm workers loaded
    the country with dept. Eco never fell for his silver tongue. Another (alcohol) fuelled attack on someone the Aziz incident.
    All good guys hope you have a big box of tissue the poll results have taken away one attack line you were using.
    There you go the justice & prison system just sucks MAORI in and teach them how to be a bigger menace to society.
    There are other people that are powerful that watch the show.
    I would not write a team off that is in the rebuilding stages.
    People like mark the grocery person wants all big businesses to have a monopoly duopoly so they can funnel all the money to the 00.1 % hip pockets who cares about the people under the bridge that there capitalist policy’s cause while sipping red wine on there helicopter pad. Ka kite ano

  25. Eco Maori 27

    I don’t see the big supermarkets chains sending food to food Banks wasting food or anything is one of the biggest causes of climate change that has to change. Ka kite ano

  26. Eco Maori 28

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

  27. Eco Maori 29

    It gives Eco Maori a sore face to see that OUR Te reo is reciving the respect it deserves I seen a story in stuff.co.nz about a new AP that translates maori to english with photos I was going to write a post about it but I make sure that the people are worthy of Eco Maoris Tau Toko as the ap was not made in Aotearoa well need I say more. These letter in this story are a window into our tipunas life dealings with the settlors I have read some from home as well I will put the link up below.
    19th Century letters warned of fears for future NZ
    Waitangi Treaty: Letters shed light on Māori plight for sovereignty

    Tomorrow the country marks nearly 180 years since Te Tiriti o Waitangi was signed, but letters from that era show that some issues for Māori remain the same.

    Letter written by Hariata Ronga, wife of Hone Heke, to Sir George Grey in 1851 protesting the building of a new town in Mangonui. Photo: RNZ / Jessie Chiang
    RNZ got a firsthand look at some of the letters that talk about land negotiations and the importance of kōrero with iwi.
    The collection of more than 700 letters written by Māori can also be found on Auckland Council’s online archive, Kura.
    But preserved in folders are some of the original copies.
    Robert Eruera is a senior curator of Māori heritage at the Auckland Council and this is his passion.
    “They’re like a window of time so that you can view the political agendas and the environment of the time,” he said.
    “All of them are in te reo Māori.”
    Letter written by Hōne Heke asserting his tino rangatiratanga. Photo: RNZ / Jessie Chiang
    Decades on from the letters, Mr Eruera said respect of Māori sovereignty or rangatiratanga was still needed.Ka kite ano links below. P.S There some text Eco Maori cannot axcess I wonder Why



  28. Eco Maori 30

    This is what our scientists predicted unusual weather we have to stop denying climate change and stop burning carbon.
    Hawaii sees ‘very unusual’ snow as US storms wreak havoc
    Series of powerful storms brings Arctic air from Alaska and sends huge waves to Hawaii
    west and even brought snow to Hawaii.
    Schools closed across Washington state and the legislature canceled all hearings on Monday with winter snowstorms pummeling the region.
    Seattle’s metro area had already been hit by three snowstorms this month and the National Weather Service reports that Seattle-Tacoma international airport has received 14.1in (36cm) of snow so far in February, more than twice the annual average and the snowiest month in more than 30 years.
    The storm that hit Seattle on Sunday dumped up to 4in (15cm) of snow and forecasters said more snow or rain was expected Monday and Tuesday as a lingering jet stream drives cold Arctic air into the normally temperate region, and part of a larger cycle that has also driven snow as far away as Hawaii.

    Hawaii officials said the blanket of snow at Polipoli Spring state recreation area is probably the first for any state park. Polipoli is at 6,200ft (1,900m) making this possibly the lowest elevation snow ever recorded in the s
    Honolulu’s National Weather Service reported 60ft (18-metre) waves north of Kauai and Oahu at the height of the storm on Monday. Significant wave heights – a measure averaging the bigger waves – reached a record 38ft.
    Joe Zagrodnik, an atmospheric scientist at the University of Washington, said the larger system at work – namely the position of a cold jet stream – was also driving warm temperatures in Alaska and unusual weather in Hawaii.
    With a north-south ridge of high pressure situated off the coast of Washington and Canada, Zagrodnik said, cold air being drawn southward inland is being replaced by warm air moving north offshore, driving temperatures up in parts of Alaska even as Seattle freezes.
    And a chunk of cold, low-pressure air separated from the main flow is also drifting further west. Known as a Kona Low, the system caused unusual snow on the island of Maui.

    In Washington, Zagrodnik said, February’s total already sets the month as the snowiest single month in the state since November 1985, and the snowiest February on record. Ka kite ano links below


  29. Eco Maori 31

    Kia ora Newshub the polls for the two neo (capitalist for the poor) and (socialist for the 00.1 %) national are polling in single digits laugh able simon and judy .
    The e scooter are making a lot of head lines of late hope the e scooter here are not the faulty ones.
    The hungry polar bears the ice has receded so the polar bears have no we’re to hunt for seals now they are invading that Island village in Russia its good the bears are classified as indanger and are not being shot.
    Its a big mess in Syria the lives losted is a shame and all the artifacts getting destroyed. Ka kite ano P.S war is for fools

  30. Eco Maori 32

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute.

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