Open mike 10/10/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, October 10th, 2024 - 64 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

64 comments on “Open mike 10/10/2024 ”

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  1. lprent 1
    10 October 2024 at 7:48 am

    Search is back.

    Complete rewrite using a different technique (SphinxQL with mysqli calls rather than the older API).

    Still has a few flaws that I will correct at some point. Mostly to make it easier to find a particular page.

    The usual extended query syntax still applies for those who are interested.
    https://sphinxsearch.com/docs/current.html#extended-syntax

    The fields exposed are
    @title
    @author
    @body
    @category (haven’t tested that myself)
    @isPage (untested)
    @isPost (untested)
    @isComment (untested)

    • lprent 1.1
      10 October 2024 at 8:21 am

      Bit of an issue with putting quotes – it keeps adding a backslash to the quote characters. That will be easy to fix.

      @category thinktank
      works. But multi-word categories do not.

      fails on
      @category monetary policy
      @category "monetary policy"
      @category ^monetary policy$

    • lprent 1.2
      10 October 2024 at 8:41 am

      Has quite a few quirks on mobile. I'll ignore those because the theme is due to get upgraded shortly. Mobile will disappear and it will just be an flexing attribute of the theme.

    • SPC 1.3
      10 October 2024 at 10:55 am

      Functional on both Mozilla and Chrome browsers.

      • lprent 1.3.1
        11 October 2024 at 11:51 pm

        Yeah, just a bit quirky.

        I felt a bit cold yesterday when fighting asp.net/c#, and woke with a stuffy head this morning so had sick day and read a three books in bed between naps then idled with some comments.

        But I did some work on it this evening.

        Fast enough, especially when you consider that I'm passing the content to sphinx search to figure out the snippets for each line. Works best on the simple searches.

  2. Binders full of women 2
    10 October 2024 at 7:53 am

    Why is there radio silence on tory and wellington council wanting to sell wellington airport 🛫 🛬 yet it was such a big deal when auckland were thinking of it??

    • lprent 2.1
      10 October 2024 at 8:29 am

      International Passenger numbers? and revenue

      Number of international passenger movements 2023

      Auckland Airport 8,555,112

      Christchurch Airport 1,262,287

      Dunedin Airport 212

      Queenstown Airport 835,196

      Wellington Airport 710,154

    • Ad 2.2
      10 October 2024 at 1:11 pm

      No one in the Green Party has the courage to criticise the Green Party Mayor.

      Also doesn't help that a chunk of the current minority shareholder Infratil – who will buy it – is now run by James Shaw.

      And of course Tim Brown the Wellington Councillor was previously Chair of Wellington Airport and was also a longtime senior player in Infratil.

    • Shanreagh 2.3
      10 October 2024 at 2:12 pm

      Well at 2.00pm a Special General meeting of the WCC is taking place called by a majority of councillors in an effort to rescind the decision to sell the shares….Greens, Labour and some independents. Nikau wi Neera a Green councilor who is one who opposes the sale and wants it overturned, is apparently coming under tremendous personal/family pressure from his Aunt who is one of the two iwi reps. One of the iwi reps is not acting to recuse themselves on a conflict of interest, where the iwi is planning to buy the shares should the sale proceed and neither is Tim Brown who works for Infratil.

      In addition the Mayor is saying that the proposed resolution has to go to a committee on which the the two Iwi reps have been given a vote and not to the full Council because of 'delegation' issues. Hugn Rennie KC has said the council legal advice is incorrect. The council advice is that having delegated an action the delegator is unable to act itself. This advice is contrary to well established legal precedent that was around when I was involved with Boards with stautory repsosilites 'back in the day'. This was that the delegator was able to either rescind in part or in whole a delegation or reserve to itself matters within a delegation scheme that it wants to deal with itself.

      A short time ago a sewer pipe broke around Bowen street?parliament within walking distance of the place where the meeting is to be held, I think the 'pipes call' in Wgtn as this happened but with water when PM/Simeon Brown fired a shot over the bows of the local authorities over rating increases, and nice to haves at the LGA conference in August.

      As we wait now there has been a security alert where the meeting is to be held.

      Work is required clearly on the iwi rep issue as to whether selected reps have a vote at the full council and to clarify the delegation issue, yet again

      Rumour has it, beltway rumours are endemic here, that the Chief Ombudsman and Audit are waiting in the wings to act should 'something' to happen.

      In the meantime the issue has united many who other would seen as not being able to unite working on a best for Wellington point of view.

  3. Sanctuary 3
    10 October 2024 at 8:55 am

    Quick question regarding WordPress with the "wp-comments-post.php" suffix lprent. A lot of corporates block this on their firewalls, any easy fix for that?

    • lprent 3.1
      10 October 2024 at 10:11 am

      On the comment form? Should be easy enough to divert through something else. Ummm maybe something like 'thestandard.org.nz/process-contribution/'

      I will have a look around the site for other generated outputs.

      Drat. I need another notebook.

  4. Hunter Thompson II 4
    10 October 2024 at 9:03 am

    Otago University has dropped down the university rankings.

    Could throwing heaps of money at a new logo, then making academic staff redundant, have something to do with that?

  5. koina 5
    10 October 2024 at 9:03 am

    The Cheatie

    The simple truth.

    !840. At least 90% of the British people are feudal slaves and

    living in the worst living conditions on planet earth.

    A few escape their horror prison.

    Feb 1840 Waitangi.

    British are heavily out numbered by Tangata whenua.

    The British stall for time.

    British make huge promise to Tangata Whenua .

    By 1865 British bring in 14,000 trained soldiers.

    Waikato refuse to sell land .

    So British send in 14,000 British soldiers against 2000 Waikato.

    After furious battles Waikato withdraw south

    British invade and steal more than a million acres.

    Then they do the same in the Taranaki.

    Invade butcher massacre steal destroy.

    Like the British did all around the world for 300 years.

    Governor Grey who orders invasions becomes a Knight.

    The year 2000 a small group of Pakeha make tiny apology .

    Pakeha pay 1% compensation.

    2023 Whites withdraw apology and take back the 1% compensation.

    Pakeha call this One people One country Justice for all.

  6. Belladonna 6
    10 October 2024 at 9:59 am

    Invade butcher massacre steal destroy.

    Just like Maori had been doing to each other in NZ, both before the Europeans arrived and (with greater violence) afterwards.

    https://teara.govt.nz/en/musket-wars

    Don't see Ngāti Toa issuing apologies and compensation for the (very successful) warfare carried out by Te Rauparaha.

    https://teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/1t74/te-rauparaha

    Or, is somehow Maori vs Maori territorial aggression OK; but British vs Maori territorial aggression is not.

    BTW: If you think that 19th century Britain was the "worst living conditions on planet earth" – your ignorance is laughable.

    • mikesh 6.1
      10 October 2024 at 10:39 am

      Invade butcher massacre steal destroy.

      Just like Maori had been doing to each other in NZ, both before the Europeans arrived and (with greater violence) afterwards.

      They couldn't just buy land from one another: they didn't have any money. They had never heard of fractional reserve banking.

      • koina 6.1.1
        10 October 2024 at 10:45 am

        It is true that the British/or their ancestors have been at war every day for the past 3000 years making the British the most violent race in world history. Simple fact.

        • Incognito 6.1.1.1
          10 October 2024 at 11:10 am

          You continue spouting simplistic factoids, e.g., the British are not a race and nor are Māori for that matter. I don’t think you’re that smart after all.

          • AB 6.1.1.1.1
            10 October 2024 at 11:51 am

            Exactly. Though ironically, there was a time when the British regarded their control of large parts of the world as evidence of the superiority of the British 'race'. Koina is therefore repeating a fallacious understanding of 'race' that was first popularised by white supremacists.

            • Incognito 6.1.1.1.1.1
              10 October 2024 at 12:45 pm

              Perpetuating these same narratives either shows a lack of understanding or a disingenuous agenda.

              These narratives avoid nuanced understanding and encourage and enforce perceptions of divisive distinctions.

              By one’s words we can recognise their thinking although not necessarily their motives.

          • tWig 6.1.1.1.2
            10 October 2024 at 2:09 pm

            Incognito, when I evaluate the 'feel' of Belladonna's comment, to me there is a strong subtext of 'race' to their statements. So while koina may not use the correct language according to definition, I believe koina has captured the intent of BD's comments accurately.

    • tWig 6.2
      10 October 2024 at 10:41 am

      And Maori also had a society that was heavily interconnected and stabilised by family alliances and strategic marriages. Plus Maori culture gave rise, via Parihaka (which was reported in the Commonwealth press, inspiring Ghandi in South Africa), to an international movement of peaceful, non-violent protest.

      As for Te Rauparaha epitomising Maori culture; by extension of your judgement, therefore Hitler epitomises German culture. Get real. It's either a whole culture, or a 'great man' – you cannot pick and choose from case to case.

      You seem to be drinking at the eugenics well of pitting one culture against another, to claim superiority for a narrow range of European Enlightenment values which skipped large parts of the actual political reality.

      This is the sort of cod history that will be more and more amplified by Seymour and others in the mess of Te Tiriti debate.

      By all means continue in your misguided defense of living standards in Victorian England. Perhaps you can put up some life expectancy stats from the 1800s to 1880s?

      • Belladonna 6.2.1
        10 October 2024 at 11:54 am

        Musket Wars: total (estimated) death toll, around 20,000

        https://teara.govt.nz/en/musket-wars/page-1

        NZ Wars: total (estimated) death toll from both sides, around 3,000

        https://teara.govt.nz/en/new-zealand-wars

        Te Rauparaha is simply one example of a very successful warrior chieftain – there are literally dozens of others.

        You seem to be drinking from the eugenics well, of justifying violence from one culture, while condemning it from another.

        I'll put up the life expectancy stats of Victorian England, when you put up the life expectancy stats of 18th century Maori.

        I won't hold my breath.

        • koina 6.2.1.1
          10 October 2024 at 1:28 pm

          Realizing that there is a 90% hole in 90% of all historical " accounts" pre 1900 has served me well. 99% of "history" and it is "his "story is about the 1% of the upper classes while every one else is ignored. When I first went to England in 1977 having been "taught" how Britain was the the birth of a great empire I was shocked because to my eyes England looked like a slum and most of the people lived in poverty. Where was the great Empire? I stopped watching TV 1 news in 1974 (Only one TV channel in those days) because I realized there was no news just right wing White propaganda. So realizing that 90% of what people tell me is either B/S or so badly skewed I rarely believe any thing any one tells me and I question everything. So by the time I was ten years old I realized that 90% of the White "accounts" of the "history " of these lands were so riddled with holes and drenched in White prejudice and were simply propaganda to justify the illegal White invasion.

          • Belladonna 6.2.1.1.1
            10 October 2024 at 1:52 pm

            Yep. Your posts are certainly illustrating that ignorance is serving you well. No need to worry about facts, you have right on your side. /sarc/

            • tWig 6.2.1.1.1.1
              10 October 2024 at 2:14 pm

              I find koina's statements in this conversation to be a perfectly justifiable world view, based on their own experience, especially when critiquing Britain based on what they lived through there. I may not agree with all they say, but it shows up narrow-mindedness to write off all koina says to an ignorance of the world and how it works 'according to Belladonna'.

              • Belladonna …
                10 October 2024 at 2:41 pm

                I'm sure you do.

                Given that Koina has specifically said that he discounts virtually all historical evidence – really there is no point in debating them.

        • Drowsy M. Kram 6.2.1.2
          10 October 2024 at 1:58 pm

          I'll put up the life expectancy stats of Victorian England, when you put up the life expectancy stats of 18th century Maori.

          I won't hold my breath.

          Actually, putting up those stats might be quite easy – almost as easy as holding one’s breath. I recall Anne Salmond writing about some such in the early 90s – there's a citation link embedded in this paper.

          Colonisation, hauora and whenua in Aotearoa [6 Oct 2019]

          Salmond’s 1991) comparative ethnography of early contact argues that, despite differences in population, culture and technology in Britain and Aotearoa, Māori health was likely better and longevity quite similar:

          … Europeans lived about as long as pre-European Māori, but overall … they were more prone to disease and quite often less well fed. (Salmond 1991, p. 48)

          Two worlds: First meetings between Maori and Europeans, 1642-1772

          https://teara.govt.nz/en/te-hauora-maori-i-mua-history-of-maori-health/page-1

          • Belladonna 6.2.1.2.1
            10 October 2024 at 2:04 pm

            Opinion, not statistics.

            I was asked for life expectancy in Victorian England. It was around 40-45 years.

            https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/lifeexpectancies/articles/howhaslifeexpectancychangedovertime/2015-09-09

            Te Ara’s estimate for Maori pre-European contact, is 28-30. Of course, this is only opinion as well. There are no statistics for this period.

            https://teara.govt.nz/en/te-hauora-maori-i-mua-history-of-maori-health/page-1

            • Drowsy M. Kram 6.2.1.2.1.1
              10 October 2024 at 2:15 pm

              I was asked for life expectancy in Victorian England.

              Yes, but you asked for "the life expectancy stats of 18th century Maori", and said you wouldn't be holding your breath, in your typically respectful manner.

              It was that request of yours I was responding to – why it this so difficult?

              • Belladonna …
                10 October 2024 at 2:39 pm

                You haven't given any statistics of life expectancy for 18th century Maori – just an opinion.
                And one which is contradicted by other sources (see earlier comment)

                I'm still not holding my breath. For the very simple reason that they don't exist. A pre-literate culture (regardless of the high cultural level), simply doesn't collect or record statistics on anything.

                • tWig …
                  10 October 2024 at 3:11 pm

                  The figure of life expectancy you give, Belldonna, is an aggregate.

                  From a study of demographics measurement in the UK

                  ' Liverpool, England’s second largest city and its second port, with a population of 376,000 in 1851, was infamous for its high mortality rates, and life expectancy was as low as 28 years in the period 1838-44. Manchester, only slightly smaller than Liverpool in size, experienced similarly low levels of life expectancy in the mid-nineteenth century, but also experienced more rapid improvements. Manchester and Liverpool provide some support for the argument that large northern industrial and manufacturing cities experienced much worse conditions, and higher mortality rates, than their slower-growing southern counterparts.'

                  If you think that births and deaths in Britain's noisome Victorian slums were accurately recorded, then dream on. Working back from rural parish registers does not properly measure pre-census Britain's population either.

                  • Belladonna …
                    10 October 2024 at 3:40 pm

                    Are you then equating the life experience of people in Victorian Liverpool or Manchester, with pre-European NZ. Hardly a ringing endorsement….. People living in the worst slums in Britain had the same life-expectancy as 18th century Maori.

                  • mpledger …
                    10 October 2024 at 3:45 pm

                    There were huge population influxes to Northern England from the Irish escaping the potato famine. Picking Manchester and Liverpool is purposefully picking the worst cities.

                    (But that sets me up for a recommendation – North and South (2004) – a romance set amongst strife between the mill owners and mill workers in Manchester (in disguise) just after that time period. Lots of great actors and a reminder why unions are needed.)

                    • tWig …
                      11 October 2024 at 11:41 am

                      The potato famine was in 1845-52, outside the timeframe quoted.

                      And I do remember reading in some NZ history or other that NZ Maori population was close to the limit of the food resources available. Which is why people ground their teeth down to the nerves eating fern root in some areas.

                      And why Maori were extremely quick to pick up agriculture and horticulture, and benefit from food plants introduced by incoming Europeans.

                    • mpledger …
                      11 October 2024 at 4:17 pm

                      You picked out two particular years with the implication that their were many similar years. Given you mentioned 1851 specifically, the potato famine fits within the timeframe. According to Wikipedia, in 1851, 20% of Liverpool's population was Irish.

                      My point was that these cities were atypical compared to other English cities for this and other reasons.

                    • mpledger …
                      11 October 2024 at 6:12 pm

                      Actually, I can across an interesting reference. Basically, it says that a more virulent strain of scarlet fever increased death rates in children to such an extent that the average life expectancy dropped. But also other things mattered "including the Irish famine and the epidemiological effects of rising population densities and connectedness,".

                      Davenport RJ. Urbanization and mortality in Britain, c. 1800-50. Econ Hist Rev. 2020 May;73(2):455-485. doi: 10.1111/ehr.12964. Epub 2020 Feb 21. PMID: 32355360; PMCID: PMC7186836.

                      Of course, now I got so interested in the story that I've forgotten what point I was trying to argue.

                  • Muttonbird …
                    10 October 2024 at 9:20 pm

                    Belladonna only considers the life expectancy of the elite to be relevant.

                • Drowsy M. Kram …
                  10 October 2024 at 3:29 pm

                  For sure, Dame Anne Salmond's opinions aren't everyone's cuppa tea.

                  In December 2020 Salmond expressed optimism that a worldview for New Zealand based on key concepts such as aroha (‘love’) and kaitiakitanga (‘guardianship’) could build relationships, not just between people, but also with the living world.
                  …
                  As New Zealand prepared for a general election in 2023, Salmond questioned whether either Chris Hipkins or Christopher Luxon as leaders of the two main political parties in the country were being "honest and long-sighted, or cynical or expedient…[in developing policies]…to address climate change at pace and scale".

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Salmond#Public_policy_positions

                  Now there's a political centrist.

                  • Belladonna …
                    10 October 2024 at 3:38 pm

                    As I said, there is a divergence of opinion – quoting Te Ara.

                    Salmond is an academic with a defined opinion (one you clearly agree with).
                    And very clearly, her opinions are well to the left of centre – given that she equates Hipkins with Luxon.

                    If that's your definition of centrist, I'm no longer amazed that you appear to regard everyone else as some form of right wing.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      10 October 2024 at 4:02 pm

                      Salmond is an academic with a defined opinion (one you clearly agree with).

                      And one you disagree with?

                      And very clearly, her [Salmond's] opinions are well to the left of centre – given that she equates Hipkins with Luxon.

                      This particular ‘analysis’ of yours is revealing – using such "respectful centrist" logic, wouldn't it make just as much sense to write:

                      And very clearly, her [Salmond's] opinions are well to the right of centre – given that she equates Luxon with Hipkins.

                      The truth will set you free smiley

                  • Belladonna …
                    11 October 2024 at 10:04 am

                    This particular ‘analysis’ of yours is revealing – using such "respectful centrist" logic, wouldn't it make just as much sense to write:

                    And very clearly, her [Salmond's] opinions are well to the right of centre – given that she equates Luxon with Hipkins.

                    Given Salmond's resolute rejection of Seymour's claim to basing his Treaty Principles Bill on her work, it is very clear that she's not an ACT supporter.

                    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/dame-anne-salmond-takes-act-leader-david-seymour-to-task-over-his-claims-that-her-work-supports-his-treaty-call/2TJ7YYJ4BVHDZPRJYKIEAKFPOA/

                    So your re-wording is simply nonsense.

                    Centrists are usually better placed to place commentary more accurately on the left/right spectrum. Marxists are hampered by the fact that virtually all commentary is right-wing from their perspective.

                    • tWig …
                      11 October 2024 at 11:49 am

                      Most accurately, Salmond is someone who has interacted with the modern Maori world, and studied its past, for decades.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      11 October 2024 at 1:28 pm

                      So your re-wording is simply nonsense.

                      Honestly B, it's no more nonsensical than your original wording in your comment @ 3:38 pm yesterday. In that comment, you clearly state that Salmond’s opinions are well to the left of centre, and your ‘evidence’ is “that she equates Hipkins with Luxon.”

                      Imho, you just can't get your head around it is all, and that's OK – a righty might have more difficult with this than a centrist.

    • joe90 6.3
      10 October 2024 at 1:57 pm

      both before the Europeans arrived

      And Europe's 16th, 17th and early 18th century the wars of religion?

      (The Thirty Years War alone claimed the lives of around a third of Germans, in the territory of Brandenburg close to half the population perished, and in some areas populations declined by an estimated two thirds.)

      and (with greater violence) afterwards.

      Now do the Napoleonic Wars, the population of France declined by an estimated 10%, the numerous French/Anglo/Spanish/Prussian/Russian/minor duchy tiffs, assorted uprisings, revolutions, and colonial conquests, and the mechanised killing sprees of the 20/21st C.

      /

      • Belladonna 6.3.1
        10 October 2024 at 2:03 pm

        Amazingly, none of those happened in NZ.

        If you want to discuss the massive death tolls – we should also include the Soviet Union and China, not to mention Pol Pot.

        According to Te Ara, the pre-European population of NZ was somewhere between 100K and 200K – a 20,000 death toll – is right on par with the Napoleonic Wars.

        • tWig 6.3.1.1
          10 October 2024 at 3:12 pm

          And Britain's administration in the Great Famines of Ireland and India, where millions died while Britain continued food exports from those countries for profit.

          • Belladonna 6.3.1.1.1
            10 October 2024 at 3:33 pm

            And the Armenian massacre (genocide) committed by Turkey in the early years of the 20th century.

            The point is, that wars happen. And have historically happened.

            The proportional death toll of Maori during the Musket Wars is equivalent to some of the worst of them. The death toll during the NZ wars, doesn't even make the top 10,000.

    • weka 6.4
      10 October 2024 at 3:16 pm

      Just like Maori had been doing to each other in NZ, both before the Europeans arrived and (with greater violence) afterwards.

      https://teara.govt.nz/en/musket-wars

      Don't see Ngāti Toa issuing apologies and compensation for the (very successful) warfare carried out by Te Rauparaha.

      https://teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/1t74/te-rauparaha

      Or, is somehow Maori vs Maori territorial aggression OK; but British vs Maori territorial aggression is not.

      BTW: If you think that 19th century Britain was the "worst living conditions on planet earth" – your ignorance is laughable.

      I think you are missing some important points. Iwi and Hapū have historically had distinctly different understandings of and practices around injustice. The British largely ignored these and imported their own and embedded them into custom, policy and law.

      The point isn't that Māori were good and Brits were bad. It's that the Brits had the bigger stick and were able to forceable remove much from Māori. It's not valid to suggest that Māori vs Māori warfare is analogous to British vs Māori. Colonisation is in the power dynamics.

      My understanding of Māori invasions on other Iwi was that while it was brutal (that's the reality of warfare), and there were degrees of what might be called colonisation, and there wasn't the obliteration of people and culture that we've seen from the British and other Europeans. Again, not because Māori were virtuous and the whiteys were evil, but because of different values and cultural practices. Once you get to empire building, colonisation is viable. When you live in a island far from everywhere else and you are living a paleolithic/neolithic reality, the kinds of imperialism the Brits were doing is a death sentence for everyone.

      And sure, I'd like to see the Romans held accountable for the colonisation of the Brits, or the English of the Scots. If someone can make a compelling case, why not? I doubt it would look much like NZ Treaty settlements and such, but at core is decolonisation of culture and making sure that people are ok.

      Koina certainly over-eggs the pudding, and I agree the statements about the UK are off, but the central point remains. Māori suffered great injustice, and there is a move in NZ currently to cement than in rather than remedying it.

      • Belladonna 6.4.1
        10 October 2024 at 3:29 pm

        Thanks for a rational response, Weka.

        I certainly agree that one of the gravest injustices was as the result of the NZ colonial government deliberately breaching their own laws in relation to Maori land.

        And this is subject to redress.

      • mpledger 6.4.2
        10 October 2024 at 4:38 pm

        But the English have had wave after wave of colonisation – Celts, Romans, Vikings, Jutes, Angels, Saxons, Normans. Try dis-entangling that. And how long should the last lot of colonizers live there before getting compensation from the next group of colonizers.

        And who are the Romans that the English should get compensation from? To be Roman was to be a citizen of an Empire not an ethnicity. The empire no longer exists. And what about the technology and economic uplift from the wealth and trade the Romans bought to England. Should they get some recompence for the roads they built that still exist or are the basis for those that exist today? https://www.mylearning.org/stories/roman-roads/1502

        There is a cool video by mapmen explaining why English names are so hard to pronounce – by looking at which migrant group named them – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYNzqgU7na4

        • tWig 6.4.2.1
          11 October 2024 at 11:39 am

          Is that Hobson's Pledge you pledge to?

          Dog eat dog is a philosophical position that I hope we have moved on from since Roman, or even Victorian, times. Sweeping the idea of reparations under the carpet benefits the dominant culture. But have a look, one million Maori make too big a lump there.

          • mpledger 6.4.2.1.1
            11 October 2024 at 3:55 pm

            I am pointing out the silliness of trying to get recompence from the Roman Empire, which no longer exists, for a group of people who can't now be distinguished from further waves of colonisation and invasion.

            And that the "English" were violently colonised many, many times.

      • tWig 6.4.3
        11 October 2024 at 11:34 am

        Got it in one, weka, well said. I was thinking about why I reacted so strongly to Belladonna's critique of kiona, who mainly put up quite factual statements about the Waikato invasion of Maori land, with a touch of emotion against the British.

        There is no question that it was a blatant land-grab, and was even seen as so by some Europeans at the time.

        As weka says, the dynamics of colonisation are not the dynamics of general societal violence. The analogy that came to my mind last night was saying it's OK to rape someone who has a promiscuious lifestyle, because they already have a lot of sex.

        But weka said it so much more elegantly than me, of course.

  7. tWig 7
    10 October 2024 at 11:15 am

    Co-governance and de-colonisation in British Columbia.

    The Guardian describes the implementation of UNDRIP, which gathers momentum there.

    What we started here in NZ, but moving along. There's a critique of NZ's pathway, too.

    "“In 2019, the expert mechanism was invited into New Zealand to give advice on how to implement the declaration. We recommended legislation, reporting mechanisms and an action plan, similar to what’s happening in BC now. And there was work in New Zealand on the action plans, but the weakness was they didn’t do legislation first.”

  9. Nigel Haworth 9
    11 October 2024 at 8:04 am

    One understands why the effects of colonisation are often front-of-mind. They are frequently appalling. That said, a greater focus on the causes of colonisation in different periods of history, particularly post 16th Century, may help to refine more appropriate contemporary political understanding and responses.

    That focus might usefully address the consequences of, for example, Dependency Theory, which shifted the focus of causation from a “universal” system of accumulation (Capitalism) to a spatial process of region/state against region/society (for example, Core-Periphery).