2010 – Pike River – a catastrophe caused by slack, light handed regulation, allowing the operator to call the shots on safety and letting commercial pressures drive decision making.
2019 – White Island – a catastrophe caused by slack, light handed regulation, allowing the operator to call the shots on safety and letting commercial pressures drive decision making.
2028 – /insert next tragedy here/ a catastrophe caused by slack, light handed regulation, allowing the operator to call the shots on safety and letting commercial pressures drive decision making.
Don't let the gutless bastards who run the police these days stop you going to recover bodies from the island. It is your island, your decision. Tell the cops you'll do as you please, get in your machines, and go get those people if that is what you feel is the right thing to do.
Sanctuary, the police announcements do have an echo of them talking about safety for their officers after the Pike River explosion. But then other people with experience have viewed the terrain and can speak about the conditions prevailing and from their reports we know that they must be dead because of the cyanide effect on the body from the gases and the burns from steam.
Do you think that police should not be the ones in charge after non-criminal events like this, this sort of natural tragedy? Would it be better to expand the Civil Defence units, and leave the police to concentrate on their own affairs? It seems to me that they have become too widely spread. Also more personally protective beyond what would be expected, and at the same time more of their work is being done by the Fire Service. And we don't want them hurt in carrying out their jobs either, but they seem to try to be careful but also tackle their essential task without reluctance.
Then there is the control for safety issue of the island. Though it is right by Whakatane, it is overseen by the Internal Affairs Department because off-shore islands fall into their bag. Yet it is Whakatane that people will come to when there is a disaster like this, and some of their own people are involved. So who keeps an overview should be looked at and it seems Whakatane should be the body for overseeing White Island as first call.
Then there is the situation of the island being privately owned. I would have thought it would be in public ownership, something like a National Park.
Then there is the attitude about tourism with risk. One woman said that NZ sells itself as an adventure tourism destination and it seemed she was saying, deaths and injuries happen. A bit casual, she'll be right is the way she sounded to me. The trouble with a tourism business, is that they have bookings and want to keep the business going and will underestimate risk. It has been registered as 2 on the risk scale for a while but they have not closed down as a preventative measure, and only they can decide. Hey that is not very responsible that NZ Inc as a tourism destination comes across as casual. We have been severely criticised in the past by a parent of a dead tourist. Just forgotten the details.
Kathryn Ryan made the point that it was a different sort of event to say a Ruapehu eruption. This one was close and personal, people couldn't run fast and get away. The combination of super-heated steam and sulphurous gases were deadly and would burn skin and airways. Nasty.
Also though it was mentioned in the same breath as adventure tourism, it was being used as an attraction for a cruise ship, presumably an interesting walk on an island that is an active volcanic site for cruisers who are not usually your mountaineers, and adventurers, but just lookers with money wanting a quick sample of the local features. They would be advised what clothing to wear etc. but I wonder if they were told that it was up to Category 2 on the action scale, and was showing signs of greater activity and thus greater risk.
If I was a passenger, I would be looking at a class action against the tour operators. So button down Buttles? The government should wait a while and then offer them a low price for it which will help them pay their legal bills. That is if there is a government in the Beehive and not just a lot of buzzing drones flying around in unproductive circles.
There is something I am not sure about also. I would like NZ Inc to be not making a loss after having to provide rescue efforts and hospital care, (I see the news says that the burns unit is full). Are these treated as externalities by tourism companies? Is there a reliance on ACC? If there is, the public should be aware that what ACC provides is not the complete recovery assistance which someone who could sue would ask for.
There definitely needs to be a public liability insurance or whatever to cover any costs incurred by tourism agencies, otherwise profits from tourism bringing benefits to the country are largely illusory. Has Treasury done a paper on this? You conservatives who love to quote the official line and figures – do you know if the costs of tourist mishaps are counted, calculated and recovered, or better pre-paid as extra charges through some insurance scheme.
Everyone of the survivors are already a million dollar plus cost. We are giving the everything we've got, unstintingly, because we are good people who take care of our guests.
But also need to work out if we failed a duty of care.
That's pretty silly advice as going there at the moment would be very dangerous without the correct equipment. Maybe you should listen to the audio provided below by Pat as they were finding it difficult to breathe etc. as soon as they arrived and that was through the breathing equipment.
The decision to not return to the island can’t have been an easy one to make – but it was the decision made by people with skills, training and qualifications to make such decisions.
There will be a time to debate what the correct response to these things should be – and it’s a valid discussion worth having. There could be lessons to learn from tragedy. Just not now.
1. what is the rush? Given the risk, what is the point of going today instead of waiting? Pike River was different because recovery people weren't allowed in for a very long time, and it's likely that this was in part to prevent investigation of what happened. I'm not seeing that motivation or dynamic here.
2. what should the response be of the various authorities if people go and get into trouble and need rescuing?
There have been flyovers today but the geologists note continuing ground tremors and risk of further activity – thus the work and safety side prevents action.
Just not as high as that faced by those getting the burnt off the island, so little wonder a person who was involved then is prepared to get the bodies off as well.
Calling someone moronic must be a no-no especially when they are upset about people dying and being injured! It is a case for helping thinking things through and being a bit understanding. Without being judgmental or sour.
It's a messy one, a pilot reckoned the day to get the bodies was yesterday (wind cleared away the ash fumes etc and before today's tremors) – but police drones could not fly till today. And apparently they need to survey the scene of the corpse layout for a coronal inquiry (safest by drone to minimise time on the ground etc) before removing bodies etc.
People take personal risks all the time. And there are those advocating banning bullrush as part of their school safety programme. There are those exercising their choices and those who would prevent them, is either moronic or both?
It's more workplace safety than liability. There will be an assessment of the tour operators on that side, apart from the coronal inquiry, the police cannot very well breach of that themselves.
However it seems the biggest risks of safe work practice (other staff coming in after they heard of the eruption) were taken by those rescuing people, if they had not done this, more lives would have been lost.
on the basis of what I’ve read/seen so far, I have zero problem with the actions of people in the first hour after the explosion (chopper pilots, boat operators, first aiders).
What Sanctuary was suggesting is something quite different.
"Yet if people had not done so it would have been worse on Monday."
True. But, that was to save lives, and either needed to happen immediately or not at all, so the justification is for different reasons. It's also valid for people to take action in the moment even if it puts themselves at risk (bearing in mind that the pilots have expertise in assessing risk as well as making judgement calls about that and the value of their own lives). That is different from planning to do something that is dangerous in order to achieve something that can be done at a later date.
1/ If the police had of been on in charge earlier, or the chopper pilots not acted so quickly, then the survivors of the blast rescued by the helicopters would most likely have been left to die of their injuries on the island while the cops dithered for "health and safety" reasons.
2/ The rationale behind police decision making these days seems to be a creeping US style thinking that their lives are more valuable than those of the public. Car loads of heavily armed cops cruising South Auckland in black SUVs for vague reasons also seems to just come back to the police adopting a hyper-cautious approach to risking police lives, even if it means others are needlessly killed.
Sometimes people in emergency and rescue services have to take risks. More importantly, sometimes they are willing to risk their lives to rescue people. That is why when they do we call them heroes.
It is sometimes important to empower people to respond to a local disaster with what they consider to be appropriate steps. Imposing a top down, bureaucratic and technocratic solution based on a rigid adherence to rules can sometimes not be the best outcome. If local people are willing to run the low risk they’ll be on the island when it erupts again in order to recover bodies, who is to say they shouldn’t be allowed to?
They are not stupid. They know what they would be going into.
If the police had of been on in charge earlier, or the chopper pilots not acted so quickly, then the survivors of the blast rescued by the helicopters would most likely have been left to die of their injuries on the island while the cops dithered for "health and safety" reasons
I call bullshit on this.
The police have very difficult jobs to do, especially in major situations like this. They don't always do things well, but they often do, putting themselves at risk on a daily basis.
Your love of authority doing nothing while hiding behind sophistry is well known Pete, so your reply doesn't surprise me.
We all know it would have played out. After a few weeks, the bodies are recovered and the police declare they most likely all died of unsurvivable injuries during the blast. And Pete George would go, “Thank goodness our police who I trust uncritically have reassured me they didn’t fuck it up and leave people to die, how right they were!”
"Your love of authority doing nothing while hiding behind sophistry is well known Pete"
I call bullshit on that too. You're making it up, no evidence, it's false.
"“Thank goodness our police who I trust uncritically have reassured me they didn’t fuck it up and leave people to die, how right they were!”
And on that. That's just pathetic.
The police have an essential role to play in a civil society (perhaps that doesn't apply here), they're not perfect but they're far better than the alternative.
If the police had of been on in charge earlier, or the chopper pilots not acted so quickly, then the survivors of the blast rescued by the helicopters would most likely have been left to die of their injuries on the island while the cops dithered for "health and safety" reasons.
What are you basing that on? My sense is that people first at the scene will make their own decisions and that it's generally accepted in NZ that people can choose to risk their own lives in such a situation. Had the first helicopter passing by when Whakaari blew been a police helicopter I would expect them to have done pretty much what the private chopper pilots did. Maybe I am wrong about that, but I'd like to see what you are basing your opinion on.
The rationale behind police decision making these days seems to be a creeping US style thinking that their lives are more valuable than those of the public. Car loads of heavily armed cops cruising South Auckland in black SUVs for vague reasons also seems to just come back to the police adopting a hyper-cautious approach to risking police lives, even if it means others are needlessly killed.
I'm not seeing the connection. There's a difference between police killing others in an active criminal situation vs saving people's lives in an SAR or first response to emergency situation. Arming cops on the street is a really bad idea, but can you point to cultural reasons within the police that link that to decisions that are made during civil emergencies?
I think it's likely that all agencies now have more formal risk assessment processes, in part driven by legislation. Are we sure the decision to delay recovery of the bodies is on the police alone? What is CD's role in this?
If local people are willing to run the low risk they’ll be on the island when it erupts again in order to recover bodies, who is to say they shouldn’t be allowed to?
When do you think the tourists should be allowed back? I think the central point here is that we don't know what the risk is. When you say low risk, what are you basing that on? The risk was considered low on the day the volcano blew.
The only private person I've seen saying he wants to go back is the pilot RNZ interviewed. It's a great interview, but I don't think he is saying that it's safe. He's saying that he thinks a 20 minute window would be enough in an unknown safety situation. I'm not sure that 20 minutes would be enough to properly recover the bodies, but I'd be interested if there's been expert opinion expressed on that.
I'm mindful that on the day of the explosion there were all sorts of people on twitter demanding to know why no-one was going back to look for survivors. As it turns out, the first responders twice checked for survivors and made the decision on the ground that there weren't any other than those they were evacuating. The public didn't get told until midnight that the believe was there were no survivors, and even then there wasn't really an explanation about that. But I think it's safe to say the police and CD had their hands full.
In other words, police, CD and geonet/GNS will all have access to information that you and I don't have.
Not sure. I wondered if Nash was talking about how police were communicating with family of victims.
I assume all the services will review practice, but I'm not sure updating the public on the first evening would have been a priority. Not sure if the first responder pilots also then flew people to hospitals. Might have been a while before police were able to do interviews formal enough to release information to the public. I'm guessing there was a fair amount of chaos given the numbers of agencies and public involved.
If local people are willing to run the low risk they’ll be on the island when it erupts again in order to recover bodies, who is to say they shouldn’t be allowed to?
Anybody whose duty it would be to rescue them – a duty they can't opt out of. By all means, change the current law and professional standards if that's desired.
And most of us will defer to actual volcano and rescue experts about whether the risk is 'low' thanks.
Risk is a combination of likelihood (being on the island at the wrong time) and impact (effects of an eruption). People and organisations will tolerate a higher likelihood if the impact is low.
A nearby volcanic eruption does not match that calculation. Boiling acid, superhot magma, projectiles and ash flows that nobody can outrun are not things you'd bet against unless you are reckless or stupid. Certainly not something you would bet someone else's life on unless you do not value it much.
Finally , journalists from diverse backgrounds rally to defend Assange in an open letter signed by hundreds
"The journalists write: “We hold the governments of the United States of America, the United Kingdom, Ecuador and Sweden accountable for the human rights violations to which Mr Assange has been subjected.”
They cite a powerful comment from Melzer, who wrote earlier this year: “It finally dawned on me that I had been blinded by propaganda, and that Assange had been systematically slandered to divert attention from the crimes he exposed.” The UN official pointed to the role of the corporate press in demonising Assange and repeating the smears against him concocted by the intelligence agencies."
Julian Assange will be released from prison and offered all the psychological assistance he requires after Jeremy Corbyn becomes the PM of the UK in a few days from now.
It'll be interesting to see the take of various pop media outlets that have in turn courted him and buried him. Same for the gangs of hand wringing, nose led liberals who couldn't help shove him down a hole fast enough after initially hailing him as a hero.
Julian Assange will be released from prison and offered all the psychological assistance he requires after Jeremy Corbyn becomes the PM of the UK in a few days from now.
I'm guessing that this will age poorly and Bills political judgement will be shown to be incredibly misplaced.
"“A Labour victory would represent a sharp break with neoliberalism, the failed economic orthodoxy of the past four decades, which makes an idol of the “market” and re-distributes wealth and power ever-upward "
I have been looking at the Irish Potato Famine story and parts of the furore over Ireland in the English parliament are reminiscent of Brexit and the slackness of government where firm resolve to do the sensible as well as the right thing has not prevailed.
Think how the Irish were treated by the UK. There was heavy oppression (austerity) on the population by Brit landlords who ground the Irish tenants down, and took all the profits from their large landholdings away from investing it and growing Irish business, back to Britain.
Landlords in Ireland often used their powers without compunction, and tenants lived in dread of them. Woodham-Smith writes that, in these circumstances, "industry and enterprise were extinguished and a peasantry created which was one of the most destitute in Europe.
There were numerous times of hardship but the potato blight arrived in Europe about 1844 and from 1845 to 1851 hit the Irish hard. This from the Wikipedia Famine link below reminds me of the UK hoo-ha over recent years from hardship caused by Margaret Thatcher and the adoption of a dose of austerity medicine to the UK public to Brexit, an attack of hubris on the supposedly seasoned heads in UK government.
In October 1845, Peel moved to repeal the Corn Laws—tariffs on grain which kept the price of bread artificially high—but the issue split his party and he had insufficient support from his own colleagues to push the measure through.
He resigned the premiership in December, but the opposition was unable to form a government and he was re-appointed. In March, Peel set up a programme of public works in Ireland but the famine situation worsened during 1846, and the repeal of the Corn Laws in that year did little to help the starving Irish; the measure split the Conservative Party, leading to the fall of Peel's ministry.
On 25 June, the second reading of the government's Irish Coercion Bill was defeated by 73 votes in the House of Commons by a combination of Whigs, Radicals, Irish Repealers, and protectionist Conservatives. Peel was forced to resign as prime minister on 29 June, and the Whig leader, Lord John Russell, assumed the seals of office.
Good point! I was actually more just musing as to if the Labour party had had a different leader for say the last six months would they have more chance?
Almost certainly. But who? And how is the best way to choose that leader?
I'm kinda coming to the view that leader selection processes may have swung a bit too far towards systems that give too much emphasis to the fringes of party membership, and not enough weight to the leader's colleagues (who really are in a better position to assess who actually has the skills to be an effective leader).
For examples of the former, see "Cunliffe", "Little", "Corbyn", "Sanders". For the latter, see "Ardern", "Clark". Though "Clinton" and "Shearer" stand as pretty solid arguments against the latter idea.
"The most important conclusion to be drawn from the paranoia into which New Zealand politics has fallen is that its ugly manifestations are driving more and more voters out of their old political pigeon-holes. Those who still see a point in voting are casting their ballots more out of habit than conviction. There may already be an electoral majority in support of a political style that is neither delusional nor irrational.
Chris Trotter advocating for a new political party, in an already crowded field….assuming theres the will what level of support could it expect? or is this NZ First's future when Winston departs?
Colonel Trotter really is struggling to understand today's world through the goggles of his up-the-workers youth. His recent reckons and bedfellows suggest Winston First might be the most comfortable retirement home for him.
That site they set up by copying all whaleoik's files and contact list, defying the official receiver. Called 'bdf' or something? Same cling-ons, same rubbish.
He's writing there. He's got his own author's page describing him as a weekly columnist with links to everything he's contributed. He's posted something every week since 1 April.
Thats not really surprising given his alignment with Jim Anderton's New Labour back in the day…he is , like many i'd suggest, somebody without a natrual political home in todays environment
Yes, my question is more about why he doesn't support the Greens anyway? Where did this political home thing being so exclusionary come from? Lots of people don't have a political home, it's ok to still support parties that are doing good things. The alternative is a fractured left, where too many people think that politics has to be what they want it to be or else (which does appear to be where we are at).
I dont know how old you are but you need to view from the perspective of someone of his generation (im a little younger than him,but not much)….we are all a product of our environment
I’m sure that’s at least partly true. But then that’s the problem isn’t it. He’s smart enough to understand that strategy matters for the greater cause and that one’s gut can undermine that if not used wisely. He makes his political choices just like the rest of us.
He's of a generation that has, and thus wants to keep, so while a social democrat he was against the CGT because people of his generation did not support it.
He likes to pose with the left, but not if it is not popular with his peers, and as you know a lot of oldies voted for Brexit (for the little England of their youth – nostalgia). His is the nostalgia of one no longer of the left, now a cynical realist broken by struggles lost – tired and conceding defeat.
He is like the American Catholic middle class – once Democrats, but now many vote GOP seduced by being white and middle class thus acceptable to their now WASP brethren. Or like Bryce Edwards as long as he is not actually left advocating, he can be a media commentator too as one of their token lefties. Or like Josie Pagani advocating a Labour tax cut strategy to get re-elected, so we remain with inadequate government funding.
it is a problem…possibly insoluble. We might think we are making rational decisions but I suspect we largely only seek out justification for our gut instincts…and why would CT be any different?
one would hope that a seasoned political commentator like Trotter had a better hold of his reason. Changing an election result happens because of many factors, and the influence on that includes political commentary. Which takes me back to finding it odd that he can’t bring himself to support the party with the most left wing policies, assuming those are his actual values. I suspect what SPC is saying is part of it.
think that is a harsh and inaccurate assessment..CT's generation of social dems are by and large unwitting beneficiaries of the asset inflation…indeed many of them are happy to risk their own futures to help their children/grandchildren…there is I fear a deep misunderstanding of the motivations of the older generations
I can cite that the Tory and GOP have older voters on their side – and have seen in the past similar stats here. And one would presume that would be the case. But I canna find anything on google search, not sure why.
But one can cite experienced commentators on the local political scene
Just ask any Gen-Xer or Millennial what sort of person is likely to pick up the phone in their own home and they will hiss “Baby Boomer!” Quite correctly. Which way, do you suppose, a voter sitting on a million dollars-plus of tax-free capital gain is more likely to vote – Left or Right? No wonder, really, that about 45 percent of the Party Vote appears to be welded-on to the National Party!
again, thats an assumption…is worth remembering that a good chunk of those 'boomers' and pre boomers have voted Labour/left all their lives….old habits die hard
SPC – I as a disillusioned Boomer who have always voted Left, would warn you that human nature is what it is, and that your generations and others are very likely to be just as disappointing as we Boomers have shown to be. We all suffer from the same human afflictions. So don't get too haughty, huh?
Good to read you pat having a discussion that doesn't just adopt whatever the conformist view is. I like Chris Trotter because he plays with ideas, looks at what has been done before. Looks at the gap between rhetoric and reality. Sets up strawmen and then takes them down. He exposes himself to ridicule by putting down ideas that others won't consider, but which we need to think about. What Parties say they believe in, what we think of them and their policies, and whether they will be true to their principles, and whether they are practically achievable, it all has to be thought about and sometimes exposed as faulty. It's dirty work but someone has to do it.
Some surprising stuff, such as over 65's preferring National and Labour to NZF – NZF is not as strong there as their reputation suggests.
Yeah, it’s National 1 and Greens 2nd with state house tenants. Must be those who pay the market rent for a good bones old state house (pre leaky homes era) and who also vote.
Thanks for posting the graph from the just been UK election…I had already seen it and it holds some useful data about that event. As you have posted it here I assume you are trying to draw some comparison with this thread and the other (so called) graph you linked.
There is no comparison.
Your earlier link (https://insights.nzherald.co.nz/article/how-new-zealand-votes/) is an overlay of census data on election results by polling booth which has too many variables and assumptions . It then displays those assumptions with an unquantified graph so we have no way of knowing what it is expressing. Finally there are contradictions and unlikely results that should be ringing warning bells and demand verification by alternate method….in other words…it is crap
Well since Metirea and Cunliffe were taken out at the knees. And since the managerial set in Labour have well and truly buried any move to democratise the party. And since the only social democrat on the scene is an old school right winger…yeah, there's an almost empty lane waiting to be claimed by simply promoting a social democratic alternative to NZ's woeful liberalism (think Corbyn/Sanders/SNP etc)
Yeah but…are you suggesting Peters is the only old school Tory in the NZ First ranks? That he suppresses a left leaning social democratic tendency within the party? Not seeing it myself, but hey…
No…Peters is old school no doubt…but hes an old school politician…theres a difference between the voter and the voted for.
Winston is a divisive character (personality) but the party has the potential to have a wider appeal…sans Winston. Its basis is old school social democrat…that is not to say I support it but I see the appeal for a demographic
So apparently (just reading this atm) no polls have factored in people under the age of 39 who registered this year. That's about 4 million people 'blanked'.
That leaves four million, the majority of whom are young. Even while various pollsters are happy to predict that they will break 2:1 Labour (which is actually quite a cautious estimate: if they’re young, they turn out and they vote tactically, the Labour share could be higher), they have so far been unwilling to build these voters into their predictions.
And if you look at footage of Corbyn in public and contrast it to footage of Johnson…it really doesn't gel with the narrative being spun by pop media outlets. Corbyn draws crowds and Johnson draws jeers.
Earlier today (or was it last night?) I ran a wee thought experiment on how pop media would likely slant stuff if Labour was looking good…
Pop media reflects the interests of elites. And the last thing they want is for a Corbyn led government to be offering the British public the option of remaining in Europe but being free from Europe's economic liberal straitjacket (the one that renders any social democratic policy platform unlawful) – or of remaining in Europe with the straitjacket still on.
People will opt for the first of those options. And that option fucks elites up. (Reversal of all those privatisation cash cows etc)
So to prevent a Labour/SNP majority, it's absolutely necessary for elites to discourage the Labour vote and hope for a hung parliament – hence the "foregone conclusion" bullshit that just doesn't accord with what can be seen at those public events/rallies.
Edit – Hmm, it also appears, if I’m reading things correctly (poll data hurts my head btw) that the polls being reported are generally conducted by way of “online panel”…
Thanks Bill – the youth vote will be crucial for a Labour win. I haven't got my head around how well different polls are measuring this.
A lot has been said about the YouGov MRP model (which currently predicts a Tory win), because 'it got it right last time'. But actually a track record of getting one election right once doesn't mean that much. I looked through the methodology – what isn't clear is when their panel of registered voters was selected (and specifically whether it can include the most recent registrations – perhaps it can't)?
So if we dig up, as a species, CHx and burn them. And to mitigate the effects we bury, mineralize in carbonated, or other COx aren't we adding hydrogen and removing oxygen from the biosphere? As the sea oxygen depletes, is it a good idea to depend on co2 sequestration, doesn't it create a new problem? o2 loss.
Shane Jones taken from Parliament in an ambulance. All the best Shane.
I was going to ask you why you would fund tarseal of The Lost Highway seeing the gravel was part of the experience. And why you aren't putting that money into investigating a decent road around Raetihi and Whanganui that won't slip into the river. That is really important, not giving the tourists from the cities a nice smooth road. When they are in the backblocks why not let them get the whole experience?
It is really, *really* frightening for us to be defined as a nationality. The trope of "dual loyalism" is classic antisemitism. It encourages people to view American Jews as professing greater loyalty to Israel than to the United States– thereby making us untrustworthy. https://t.co/PyuqK1lLZX
Granted, Zionism was an attempt to recast Judaism as a race/ethnicity. So on that front, the Netanyahu's of the world will be well pleased. But…well, what's to prevent an executive order designating Catholicism as a nationality? And why would that be any less absurd?
President Trump will sign an executive order defining Judaism as a nationality, not just a religion, thus bolstering the Education Department's efforts to stamp out "Boycott Israel" movements on college campuses https://t.co/0avw7eseMc
Two days after President Trump delivers a speech littered with antisemitic tropes and memes, two mass shooters motivated by antisemitic views target a Jewish market in Jersey City.
Amelia SharmanI’ve got some bad news about Santa Claus. The North Pole may be far, but it’s not too far to avoid the tentacles of technological change. While Santa is no slouch when it comes to adopting technology (having adopted assembly lines about 100 years ago, and more recently ...
Warning: This article contains sensitive topics some people might find offensive.It seems rather tedious to have to reiterate this on the eve of Christmas, but people are innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt under New Zealand law. Evidently certain journalists and politicians have forgotten this basic tenet of ...
I’ve had skin in this game in the past, and reason to think about it recently in relation to the actions of local (New Zealand) lobbyists The Maxim Institute (see Unlikely online bully, Liam Hehir). So a recent discussion caught my eye. This strikes me as a good working definition: ...
John MacCormickYou’d think that with low unemployment and ever-improving technology for distance education, the proportion of tertiary students studying part-time would be on the rise. But it’s not. There’s a puzzle here that may help to reveal some of the challenges our tertiary education system faces in meeting the ...
This short documentary explains brilliantly why the candidates and parties of the Left keep on losing to the Right. Highly recommended viewing.Video courtesy of YouTubeThis posting exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
Let's Do This - Again? If all Labour has to take to the electorate in September 2020 is an automobile-driven infrastructure programme borrowed wholesale from the last National Government, then Simon Bridges is going to make sure that being the prime minister of a one-term Labour government is the only ...
The International Astronomical Union (IAU) this year invited nations to propose names for distant stars selected on the basis of having planets (exoplanets) discovered to be orbiting them. The New Zealand entries, now adopted officially by the IAU, are Karaka for the star, and Kererū for its associated exoplanet. In ...
Farmers are outraged over approval being granted to Dryland Carbon - a dedicated New Zealand offsetting firm - to buy 1065 hectares of farmland on the east coast. It's taking land out of production, they say. People will never farm there again! Yes, and that's the point. Farming is our ...
A short update on wind power in New Zealand, where there has been a string of positive announcements since I discussed the Turitea wind farm in May:On 22 May, Genesis committed to buy all the electricity from Tilt Renewables proposed 133 MW Waipipi wind farm at Waverley, south Taranaki, ...
Last night the government introduced its latest proposals for the Emissions Trading Scheme. While the Zero Carbon Act has established a process for setting long-term carbon budgets, the government still needs to set an interim one. In addition, it needs to set volumes for planned ETS auctions and the prices ...
Stuart YeatesToday is my 15th-anniversary editing Wikipedia under my own name. I was recruited to join Wikipedia from the Everything2 community, one of several predecessors to Wikipedia, where I’d been editing since 2000. Everything2 was fun to write, editors voted on each other’s articles and humour was an important ...
Eloise Gibson covers the carbon costs of tourism over at Newsroom: But in reality: “value-led tourism growth may actually worsen those pressures that are linked with consumption. Higher-value visitors, by definition, consume more goods and services, all of which have an associated greenhouse gas and solid waste footprint. To the ...
Defensive Position: What will be Nicola Sturgeon’s equivalent of Robert the Bruce’s shiltrons when proud King Boris sends his army north against a people determined to “be a nation again”? For this is the twenty-first, not the fourteenth century. Courage and a 12-foot spear might be enough to turn aside ...
Back in May, jailed Catalan politician Oriol Junqueras ran in the European parliamentary elections as head of the Ahora Repúblicas. AR won 5.6% of the Spanish vote, enough for three MEPs. But Junqueras was not allowed to take his seat, after Spanish authorities refused to release him temporarily from pre-trial ...
This article is about competing rights and material reality. It is timely as a British employment court has ruled against Maya Forstater who took a case against an employer who sacked her for expressing gender critical views outside of work hours. Kathleen Stock noted “the judgment removes women’s rights and ...
The US House of representatives has just voted to impeach Donald Trump, making him only the third US president to earn that dubiou distinction. But before anyone gets their hopes up, this isn't any return to constitutional normalcy. Once the House votes for impeachment, the Senate is supposed to conduct ...
Stuart Yeates continues a blog series following the process of creating biographies in Wikipedia. See part one here. What does (and doesn’t) get included There is some information I deliberately leave out of biographies of the living: dates of birth are out (but not year of birth, since this is ...
Yesterday news broke that a member of the New Zealand Army had been arrested and was in military custody. Details were sparse, but Stuff journalists Florence Kerr and Thomas Manch, and Newsroom’s Marc Daalder in particular seemed to be quick to print with details of the individual’s far right ties.Later ...
The Climate Change Commission is going to be a key body in determining future climate change policy. Under the Zero Carbon Act, it will effectively be responsible for setting long-term carbon budgets and emissions reductions plans, setting a long-term downward pathway for emissions, as well as reviewing the agricultural target ...
It is a false balance to equate the advocacy of scientific and medical experts concerned with truth and child health to the advocacy of ideologically-motivated anti-fluoride and anti-vaccination activists known for their misrepresentation of science. Credit: World ...
The panic is because after taking down the “unapologetic anti-semite” and “terrorist sympathiser”, being the two most consistently carried and talked about tropes about Jeremy Corbyn, was in very real terms the only project they took most seriously of all. This was firmly aided and abetted by pretty much ...
Stuart YeatesIn August 2017, the Royal Society Te Apārangi provided physical space and some funds for a group of people to get together and edit Wikipedia on topics related to Women in Science, to try and combat the overwhelming maleness on Wikipedia.Participants at the Women in Science ...
Public Address readers have chosen "OK Boomer" as their Word of the Year for 2019, causing emergency support services to scramble in anticipation of a wave of injured feelings among New Zealanders over 55."I'm really terribly sorry this has happened and I just hope the system can cope with what's ...
Last year the government gave us the biggest ever increase in the minimum wage, from $15.50 to $17.70 an hour. This year, they're doing it again:New Zealand's minimum wage will rise to $18.90 an hour from April 1, the Government has confirmed. Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway said ...
What is Archives New Zealand scared of? We're not allowed to know. All government agencies should be maintaining risk registers of threats to their operations and what they do. Its simply good planning: by knowing about a threat - like the potential for earthquakes, or fires, or corrupt staff - ...
Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change.If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nzWhich countries in the world have met or bettered their ...
Video produced by Calgarians for Kid’s Health which is campaigning for the return of Community water fluoridation to Calgary, Canada. Dr Ghali’s presentation to recent Calgary City Council hearings on fluoridation has been promoted by anti-fluoridation activists. In my recent article Scientific integrity requires critical investigation – not blind acceptance ...
So, following the catastrophe that overtook the Labour Party last week, blame is inevitably being directed at Corbyn. As pointed out in my last post, there is some dubiour research that supports that conclusion, if you are minded to accpet it at face value.I think, however, that blaming Corbyn's leadership, ...
Another day, another secrecy clause from this secretive government. This time its in the seemingly boring looking Financial Market Infrastructures Bill, which is about stock exchange and bank settlement regulation. It uses existing bodies subject to the OIA as regulators, and gives them powers to require information both from each ...
Richard Edwards, Janet Hoek, Nick Wilson, Andrew Waa [All from Department of Public Heath, University of Otago, Wellington]New NZ Health Survey data show some encouraging recent reductions in smoking prevalence. However, progress remains inadequate to achieve the Smokefree Aotearoa 2025 goal and the government needs to take urgent action, ...
The Human Rights Commission has published a paper today on Kōrero Whakamauāhara: Hate Speech - An overview of the current legal framework. It examines the principles behind hate speech regulation, as well as current New Zealand and international law. While it draws no formal conclusions, it is clear from that ...
‘Are you sitting down?’ the ominous words came down the phone line. Usually, that means something less than happy is about to be imparted. ‘It’s about your grandparents ….’ I grew up in the sunshine capital of Aotearoa New Zealand. My maternal grandparents lived just down the road. My grandfather ...
Predictable, there has been a lot of effort being put into saying the disaster of Friday the 13th is down to Corbyn, Corbynism and Corbynistas.There was a poll published by Opinium the day after the election, asking why people did not vote labour, and why Labour voters who voted for ...
So, that didn't go so well.Immediately after the election, the Guardian published data showing where Labour's vote had gone:Labour to Conservative - 4.72%Conservative to Lib Dems - 1.34%Labour to Lib Dems - 6.06%The impact of the Brexit Party (BXP) on Labour has already been noted - in seat after seat, ...
“Power resides where men believe it resides. It’s a trick. A shadow on the wall. And a very small man can cast a very large shadow.” - Varys to Tyrion in Game of Thrones.CORBYN’S DEFEAT, and the defeat of the Labour Party his leadership made possible, is a defeat for the Left everywhere. All ...
The government gun buyback ends this week. One problem with the buyback is that, thanks to our previously lax gun laws, the police have no idea how many soon-to-be-illegal guns are actually out there. And the gun-nuts are keen to paint it as a failure by claiming that most of ...
Why we have seen some criticisms of the emergency response to the decision to delay recovery rather than take immediate action? Why do some people think they can make better decisions that the Police and other authorities? To understand this better, we need to think about how and why we ...
Sleep disorders are common and have many causes. But anti-fluoride activists will now be blaming them on community fluoridation. Image credit:Sleep Disorders and Problems There is a pattern to the recent research aimed ...
For the past two weeks delegates were meeting at the UN climate change talks in Madrid. The meeting finally ended, having achieved... nothing. The IPCC has made it clear that we need to halve emissions by 2030 if we are to avoid making the planet uninhabitable, so countries needed to ...
Amelia SharmanI’m sure you’ve heard some version of this popular prediction – about two-thirds of children entering primary school today will end up working in jobs that don’t exist yet.1 This prediction assumes rapid or accelerating technological change. But looking at historical trends and current data, rates of technological ...
Image credit: Publish Peer Reviews. Illustration by David Parkins Scientific peer-review is often touted as a guarantee of the quality of published research. But how good is peer-review? Does it guarantee poor ...
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by The Council of Disobedient Women John Fenaughty is a senior lecturer in the Faculty of Education and Social Work at the University of Auckland. In a recent column Fenaughty suggested that school teachers should use students’ “correct names and pronouns (e.g., he, him, they, them, she, her, etc.)” ...
Heard this on Radio NZ this afternoon. Perfectly captures how I'm feeling just now.It's always good to find new music, though it would be nice to be hearing something celebratory. Even "Things Can Only Get Better" would be welcome, if it was accompanied by a thumping Labour victory. ...
by Don Franks Like New Zealand, Britain is officially a country of equal opportunity under the rule of law, with increasing hardship for those at the bottom. When there’s an election, and the party most obviously callous towards poor people wins, decent folks are dismayed and bewildered. “What the hell ...
UKanians went to the polls yesterday in early elections aimed at resolving the Brexit impasse. And they certainly have, delivering a huge majority to the Tories, and (barring internal rebellions of the sort which delayed Brexit) giving them the power to do whatever they want. And thanks to the UK's ...
by Karim Pourhamzavi Mass protests are occurring across Iran, taking place in over 100 cities. The protests have been sparked by the government’s cutting of fuel subsidies, a measure which caused fuel prices to double overnight. Mass protests are hardly new in Iran, but there is an important difference ...
What other song could we play as the UK's political rule book gets torn up and thrown away?Video courtesy of YouTubeThis post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
Legendary in my own mind, I mean. All times are NZ, which is an hour10.00am (NZ) There's about an hour to go until the exit poll is released. At that point, half of the British voting public will devastated, and the other half celebrating wildly. Unless everyone is simply confused.Turnout seems ...
Forlorn Hope: When the call came down to make Corbyn unelectable, the Establishment's journalists and columnists rose to the challenge. Antisemitism was only the most imaginative of the charges levelled against the old democratic-socialist. There were many more and, sadly, they appear to have worked. Boris Johnson may not be much ...
"Rendezvous" by David Low, September 1939.DUNEDIN IS THE BIRTHPLACE of, for my money, the world’s greatest cartoonist, David Low. At the height of his powers, in 1930s London, Low’s cartoons represented the visual conscience of the civilised world. His most famous cartoon, “Rendezvous”, penned a few weeks into the Second ...
If you want to study propagandist techniques, you are typically told to study Dictatorships. Not unfair, but what’s always been more interesting to me is so-called “democratic” countries and their broader information systems.Why? Because people opt for it, even as they decry “totalitarian regimes!”.. It’s quite an eye ...
Introducing legislation which shits on the public's right to know seems to have become a daily occurrence for this government. Today's example is the Infrastructure Funding and Financing Bill. The bill establishes a framework for the establishment of "special purpose vehicles" (SPVs) to hide debt from local government balance sheets ...
Below is the longlist of words and phrases generated in the korero phase of Public Address Word of the Year 2019, with some editorial moderation. Now it's time to vote. As you'll doubtless be able to see, you get three ranked choices. Use your power wisely. Or frivolously, whatever.As usual, ...
The University of Waikato and New Zealand Law Foundation have released a report today on the law around encryption in New Zealand. There's stuff in there about principles and values, and how proposed government policies to provide for "lawful access" by creating backdoors would destroy the trust which makes encryption ...
A ballot for two Member's Bills was held today, and the following bills were drawn: Insurance (Prompt Settlement of Claims for Uninhabitable Residential Property) Bill (Stuart Smith) Social Security (Exemption for Ex Gratia and Compensation Payments) Amendment Bill (Willow-Jean Prime) Neither bill seems likely to be particularly controversial. This is ...
Earlier in the month, Bougainvilleans went to the polls in a landmark referendum to decide on whether they would remain part of Papua New Guinea or become independent. Yesterday, the results came in, with over 97% support for independence. The referendum wasn't binding - instead it means negotiations with the ...
by Daphna Whitmore This week 800 unionised bus drivers in Auckland were suspended from work after they refused to collect fares as part of a campaign of industrial action. Drivers working for Auckland’s largest bus company NZ Bus are asking for more pay and better working conditions after being offered ...
As details emerge about what unfolded on Whakaari / White Island two days ago, my thoughts go out to all the families affected by this terrible event. My thoughts are also with the first responders who worked in perilous circumstances to assist and protect those affected. Both local and ...
BMG research have unleashed their final poll of the 2019 campaign:Westminster voting intention: CON: 41% (-)LAB: 32% (-)LDEM: 14% (-)GRN: 4% (-)BREX: 3% (-1)via @BMGResearch , 06 - 11 Dec Chgs. w/ 06 Dec That's a bit of a "Dunno why we bothered" sort of poll. "Phillip, I'm afraid I've been a ...
Grant Keeps On Trucking: Out of the $12 billion Robertson has announced for infrastructure investment, $8 billion will be allocated to specific projects, with the balance of $4 billion held in reserve. What does it say about this Government's "transformational" ambitions that 85 percent of that $8 billion is to ...
I am not making this up.First few lines of the Dail Mail write up:Boris Johnson's exasperated media minder swore on live TV today as the PM refused to speak to Good Morning Britain before trotting into a fridge as he started an early milkround in Yorkshire. Piers Morgan was visibly ...
In previous elections pollsters have bemoaned the 'shy Tory' - the respondent who is so fearful of being judged as a cruel and heartless bastard by an anonymous pollster, or their spouses, workmates and friends, that they lie about their intention of voting Conservative, skewing the poll figures in Labour's ...
Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change.If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nzI was in Switzerland recently and discovered that they haven’t ...
So, You Gov's MRP poll - the weird one that tries to reflect what will happen at a constituency level and which pretty much nailed the hung parliament in 2017 - is not looking too good for Labour:
We've known about climate change for over forty years now,and it has been a major political issue for twenty. And yet fossil fuel companies have kept polluting with impunity, while government have looked the other way and twiddled their thumbs and refused to do anything because "the economy", or just ...
Sheer Loopiness: Many of those expressing bemusement at the antics of these #turnardern effacers, were convinced that they were yet another expression of the National Party’s increasingly spiteful anti-government propaganda campaign. They marvelled at the oddness of the perpetrators’ mindset and questioned the common-sense of allowing the rest of New Zealand ...
Brad Scott, GNS Science VolcanologistThis post was originally published by GeoNet.Following the 9 December devastating eruption at Whakaari/White Island we have put together some information about the island. New Zealand’s most active volcano Whakaari/White Island is currently New Zealand’s most active volcano, it has been since an eruptive episode ...
The Justice Committee has reported back on its Inquiry into the 2017 General Election and 2016 Local Elections, with a host of recommendations about how to improve our electoral systems. Some of their recommendations are already incorporate din the Electoral Amendment Bill currently before Parliament, but there's also a recommendation ...
Back in 2017, in order to make themselves "electable" in the eyes of rich people who oppose everything they stand for, the Greens signed up for NeoLiberalism, adopting a restrictive set of "Budget Responsibility Rules" which basicly prevented them from using government to make things better. Now, they're finally abandoning ...
Since invading in 2001, the US has consistently claimed that their war in Afghanistan has been going well, even when it continued year after year after year. Of course, they were lying, and thanks to the Washington Post and the US Freedom of Information Act, we get to see just ...
As another year draws to a close, we're looking back on all the progress we've made for New Zealanders and their families. Read below for some of the highlights from 2019! ...
Darroch Ball, Spokesperson for Law and Order Newly released Police data shows the number of fleeing drivers have continued to skyrocket with incidents numbering now over 100 every week – almost tripling the number of incidents occurring just ten years ago, says New Zealand First Law and Order Spokesman Darroch Ball. ...
Darroch Ball, Spokesperson for Law and Order The coalition government has announced a new research project to examine the effectiveness of drug checking programmes at music festivals to find out whether it helps keep people safe and reduces harm. “New Zealand First raised concerns around the lack of empirical evidence which ...
Every year, thousands of police, ambulance, and corrections officers are assaulted. And it’s increasing. In August 2019 alone, there were over 200 assaults on St John Ambulance staff. Our first responders operate in high-risk, urgent and potentially life-threatening situations. It is our responsibility to ensure they are safe when doing their job. Now is ...
Paramedics have reiterated their support for New Zealand First MP Darroch Ball's bill to impose mandatory prison sentences on those who assault our first responders and prison officers. There are more than 50 cases of abuse and assault against New Zealand paramedics each week. The figure has remained largely unchanged ...
New Zealand First leader Winston Peters has revealed the Party’s stance on a proposed single public broadcaster. He said it had been the NZ First policy to support and strengthen public sector media. "For this reason, we welcome the initiative of Minister Faafoi to progress work in this area. Both ...
Rt Hon Winston Peters, Leader of New Zealand First Introduction Good morning, and thank you for your attendance here today. Let us start by acknowledging the work of all the media outlets and reporters, particularly the regional reporters, who have been covering this week’s tragedy at Whakaari White Island. It ...
New Zealand First MP Darroch Ball’s bill introducing a six-month minimum sentence for assaults on first responders has passed its first reading in Parliament. Mr Ball said the new offence of "injuring a first responder or prison officer with intent" would target people who attacked paramedics, police, firefighters, and corrections ...
New Zealand First leader Winston Peters gave his final interview for 2019 on The Country to tell farmers they have never had it better under the current coalition Government. “Here you've got these record returns [for farmers]. These returns would be nothing like a record if the currency under the ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters said that New Zealand's Cook Islands High Commissioner, Tessa Temata, has died over the weekend. Ms Temata, 52, died in Palmerston North and had returned to New Zealand for medical treatment. She was the first New Zealand High Commissioner to the Cook Islands of Cook Island ...
A new defence report has mapped out how New Zealand's soldiers will navigate rising seas, and a year after the Defence Force announced its need to prepare for climate change. In the “Responding to the Climate Crisis” report, the Force restates its operational plan and sets goals to tackle climate ...
We're rebuilding New Zealand - our transport network, our hospitals, our schools and more... After nine years of neglect there's a lot to fix - but we're getting on with the job. ...
We're rebuilding New Zealand - our transport network, our hospitals, our schools and more... After nine years of neglect there's a lot to fix - but we're getting on with the job. ...
Mark Patterson, Spokesperson for Primary Industries New Zealand First spokesperson for Primary Industries, Mark Patterson, has called for awareness to be raised and more stringent biosecurity checks to be put in place for African Swine Fever (ASF), a widespread virus that is uncontrolled in most of Asia and a serious ...
Jenny Marcroft MP, Spokesperson for Human Rights A critical step has been taken to end gender based violence against women and girls in Parliament this evening. New Zealand First Spokesperson for Human Rights Jenny Marcroft MP has welcomed the passing of the first reading of the Crimes (Definition of Female ...
New Zealand First MP Shane Jones says it's time to recognise market forces haven't led to the expected reduction in Māori smoking rates and try a new approach. The Party had recently invoked the agree to disagree clause in their Coalition Agreement with the Labour Party, and will not support ...
Live from the Whanganui Opera House, on the final day of the 2019 Labour Party Conference, Jacinda Ardern announced the largest investment in school property in 25 years. ...
The Coalition Government will be banning foreign donations to political parties and candidates, ahead of next year’s general elections. Legislation will be introduced to Parliament and passed under urgency – emphasising the need for such restrictions to safeguard our democracy. The bill introduces a new requirement that party secretaries and ...
Associate Transport Minister Shane Jones opened Taipā's $19 million bridge recently, improving transport infrastructure in the Northland region. The two-lane bridge is 107m long with a 2.5m-wide shared walking and cycling path, and will reduce the congestion that the old one-lane bridge was notorious for. The project had also included ...
After 103 years Ngā Toenga o Ngā Tamariki a Iharaira me ngā Uri o Maungapōhatu Charitable Trust have cleared the name of their tupuna Rua Kēnana of a criminal conviction in 1916. Rua Kēnana is the sixth recipient to receive a statutory pardon in New Zealand and the fourth arising ...
The Minister of Police has thanked around 33,000 firearms owners for helping make New Zealand a safer place by participating in the gun buyback. “The six-month firearms buyback and amnesty drew to a close last night and Police were processing some latecomers well into the evening,” Stuart Nash said. “When ...
The Waitangi Tribunal has today released a report recommending the introduction of the Ahuriri Hapū Claims Settlement Bill once Mana Ahuriri Trust undertake to hold trustee elections. “I am pleased the Waitangi Tribunal has made practical recommendations for how the Ahuriri Hapū settlement should proceed. I will today be introducing ...
The Government is backing a $280,000 marketing push to support West Coast businesses after storms lashed the region, says Rural Communities Minister and local MP Damien O’Connor. “The closure of State Highway 6 after the bad weather earlier this month is having an effect on visitor numbers and bookings. That ...
The Minister of Police Stuart Nash says the clock is ticking down for firearms owners who wish to stay on the right side of the law. “The buyback and amnesty for prohibited and unlawful firearms ends tonight,” Mr Nash said. “There has been a last minute surge in the past ...
A new record has been set for Police numbers with the graduation of 60 new Police officers today. Police Minister Stuart Nash says the constables from Wing 333 are being deployed to the frontline just in time for the busy summer months. “Today’s graduation at the Royal New Zealand Police ...
Switching New Zealand to full renewable energy and solving the challenge of climate change will ensure a better planet for our kids and grandkids, the Minister for Climate Change and the Minister for Energy and Resources said today as they invited all New Zealanders to have their say on to ...
The Government has today issued the Venture Capital Fund Policy Statement outlining the requirements for investments from the new $300 million fund set up to support New Zealand firms as they expand beyond the start-up phase. The statement accompanies the recently passed Venture Capital Fund Act and provides high-level policy ...
Reserve Bank of New Zealand Chair Professor Neil Quigley has been reappointed for a two-year term from 1 February 2020. Finance Minister Grant Robertson said it was important to retain Professor Quigley’s experience as the Reserve Bank board transitions to its new governance role. The Government announced yesterday that the ...
The Government will boost investment in road safety upgrades and road policing tools as part of its new Road to Zero strategy and initial action plan launched today by Associate Minister of Transport Julie Anne Genter. “Most fatal and serious crashes are preventable. Road to Zero follows international best practice ...
GDP growth for the September quarter has exceeded expectations, showing the economy is in good shape, Finance Minister Grant Robertson says. Stats NZ data today showed the economy grew 0.7% over the quarter, and 2.7% over the year. There was strength across the economy, with services industries, manufacturing, construction and ...
Transport Minister Phil Twyford announced today that additional lanes on Auckland’s western and southern motorways are now open in time for Christmas. The Lincoln to Westgate section of SH16 has been widened to three lanes in each direction and SH1 has also been widened to three lanes in each direction ...
New Zealand is making progress to drive down its greenhouse gas emissions, but must go further and faster. That was the verdict of Minister for Climate Change, James Shaw as he welcomed the release of New Zealand’s Fourth Biennial Report today. “Our children and grandchildren will look back on reports ...
The vulnerability of New Zealand’s aquatic environments to climate change is highlighted in a new report on Waituna Lagoon in Southland’s internationally recognised Awarua Wetland. Conservation Minister Eugenie Sage says the Department of Conservation (DOC) report illustrates the need to act now to manage climate change impacts. “Waituna Lagoon is ...
A new research project will examine the effectiveness of drug checking programmes at music festivals to find out whether it helps keep people safe and reduces harm. The Ministry of Health is to fund research by a Victoria University of Wellington criminology team which will study the impact of drug ...
Police will be given new powers to conduct random roadside oral fluid drug testing to deter, detect and prosecute drugged drivers in order to save lives, Associate Transport Minister Julie Anne Genter announced today. “Last year 95 people were killed in preventable crashes where the driver was found to have ...
Tūhoe prophet Rua Kēnana was officially pardoned and the Crown apologised during the final reading of Te Pire kia Unuhia te Hara kai Runga i a Rua Kēnana: Rua Kēnana Pardon Bill in Parliament today. Rua Kēnana was wrongfully arrested when 70-armed police invaded Maungapōhatu in 1916. The fateful Sunday ...
Government’s second report on Waitangi Tribunal claim progress, released today, highlights the importance of emerging contemporary claims as well as historic claims. In releasing the latest Section 8I Report (1 July 2018 and 30 June 2019), Minister for Māori Development Hon Nanaia Mahuta says that in approaching the conclusion of ...
The Government is making sure we share the prosperity of our strong economy fairly with those on the minimum wage by lifting it to $18.90 per hour on 1 April 2020 – the next step in the Government’s plan for a $20 minimum wage by 2021, Workplace Relations and Safety ...
Minister of Health Dr David Clark says new regulations will allow local cultivation and manufacture of medicinal cannabis products that will potentially help ease the pain of thousands of people. Today's regulations, which come into effect on 1 April 2020, set out the quality and licensing requirements for manufacturing and ...
Keeping Kiwis’ money safe and ensuring they have confidence in the people running our banks are the focus of the latest decisions out of the Government’s review of banking laws. Finance Minister Grant Robertson today announced the latest Cabinet decisions from Phase 2 of the Review of the Reserve Bank ...
The 120 students at Auckland Point Primary in Nelson will benefit from a much-needed upgrade of six rundown classrooms, Minister of Education Chris Hipkins announced today. “The school’s six classrooms were originally built in the 1970s. They have served the school well for a long time, but their condition has ...
In response to a Court of Appeal decision today, Revenue Minister Stuart Nash says he intends to introduce legislation to clarify the law regarding donation tax credits. “We need to act swiftly to provide certainty,” Mr Nash says. “Today’s decision opens the way for claims to be made to Inland ...
Cabinet has approved a new set of principles to strengthen the New Zealand’s Space Agency regulatory function and ensure decisions about payload permits are made in the national interest, Economic Development Minister Phil Twyford announced today. “Our existing regulatory framework encourages the growth of a safe, responsible and sustainable space ...
Unfair business practices are being targeted in new legislation introduced to Parliament. Small Business Minister, Stuart Nash, and Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister, Kris Faafoi, say the Fair Trading Amendment Bill will make two major changes to better protect consumers and businesses. “The first set of changes will prohibit conduct that ...
Expert, trusted and independent advice will be essential to ensuring New Zealand plays its part solving the challenge of climate change. Today, the Minister for Climate Change, James Shaw announced the team of experts who now have the important task of providing governments with that advice. “Some issues are too ...
The telling of our history that has been encouraged by Tuia – Encounters 250 must continue and the Government will play its part, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says. She was speaking at Tuahuru Marae in Te Māhia today as part of the official closing ceremony for Tuia 250. “Over the ...
The Crown has adopted a new strategy for resolving historical claims arising from abuse in state care that better reflects its principled response to the Abuse in Care Royal Commission of Inquiry, State Services Minister Chris Hipkins and Attorney-General David Parker said today. The review of the historical claims resolutions ...
Six industry-led Workforce Development Councils (WDCs) will be established to provide industry with greater leadership across vocational education and training, Education Minister Chris Hipkins announced today. The selection and make-up of the WDCs is a key decision in the reform of vocational education. “These new WDCs will ensure industry takes ...
With the global climate change talks closing overnight, the Minister for Climate Change, James Shaw said New Zealand will continue to show the world what meaningful, ambitious and lasting climate action looks like. “Lasting action on climate change demands that we keep working every single day. This is the only ...
600 new te reo advocates are being sought following the success of a programme that supports the Government’s plan to integrate te reo Māori into education, Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Registrations for Te Ahu o te Reo Māori 2020 are now open, with courses starting from February ...
Education Minister Chris Hipkins has announced the members of Te Taumata Aronui, a group to work with Government on tertiary education policy from a Māori community and employer perspective. “Te Taumata Aronui is an opportunity for Māori and the Crown to work more closely on changes to the tertiary education ...
The Government will invest $100 million on a new courthouse in Tauranga which will be a model for future courthouse design for New Zealand, Justice Minister Andrew Little has announced. The courthouse will be designed in partnership with iwi, the local community, the judiciary, the legal profession, court staff and ...
The Government has given the go ahead to enable further development of 5G networks by making appropriate spectrum available. The Broadcasting, Communications and Digital Media Minister, Kris Faafoi, has confirmed Cabinet approval for the allocation of short-term rights to an unused portion of 3.5 GHz spectrum. 3.5GHz is the first ...
Sustained high growth in primary industry exports looks set to continue over the next two years with strong prices predicted for farmers, fishers, growers and rural communities. Minister of Agriculture and Minister of State for Trade and Export Growth Damien O’Connor today released the latest Situation and Outlook report for ...
Auckland’s growing screen sector is the catalyst for a new partnership between the Ministry of Social Development and Auckland’s economic development agency Auckland Tourism, Events and Economic Development (ATEED). The launch today at FilmFX in Henderson, is to celebrate the partnership which looks to capitalise on the social and economic development opportunities ...
A minute’s silence will be observed at 2.11pm on Monday 16 December in honour of the victims of the Whakaari White Island eruption, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has confirmed. “Wherever you are in New Zealand, or around the world, this is a moment we can stand alongside those who have ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced New Zealand will contribute NZ$1 million of funding towards the joint United Nations Fund for Children (UNICEF) and World Health Organisation (WHO) Pacific Regional Action Plan for Measles. “Prevention through vaccination is the most effective way of avoiding illness and a costly health emergency. ...
New Zealand is today remembering one of our true sporting heroes, triple Olympic gold medal winner Sir Peter Snell. “He was a legend, here and around the world,” Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said. “Our thoughts are with Sir Peter’s wife Miki and their family.” “Sir Peter is recognised as New ...
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has congratulated United Kingdom Prime Minister Boris Johnson on his election victory. “New Zealand and the United Kingdom are close friends and despite our distance we are strongly connected by our history and people,” Jacinda Ardern said. “I look forward to continuing to work with Prime ...
New figures from the Real Estate Institute show farms sales in the year to November are down nearly 13 percent on the year prior, largely driven by a sale slump in the dairy sector. ...
British Columbia’s law should see First Nations’ people included in public decisions and economic development, especially in relation to natural resources. from www.shutterstock.com ...
Stuck for something good to watch this Christmas? We’ve picked the television highlights (and lowlights, depending on your love of talking dogs) for everyone this festive period.Nothing says ‘summer’ and ‘Christmas’ like barricading yourself in a dark room and watching a bunch of strangers do made-up things on a screen. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Maxwell, Senior Lecturer, University of Southern Queensland I’m a geek. And as a geek, I love my tech toys. But over time I’ve noticed toys are becoming harder to understand. Some modern toys resemble advanced devices. There are flying toys, walking ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Robyn J. Whitaker, Senior Lecturer in New Testament, Pilgrim Theological College, University of Divinity It took 400 years, but sometime in the early fifth century Christians transformed a tradition about Jesus’s miraculous virgin birth into a doctrine that inextricably connected sex with ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rebecca Forgasz, Associate Professor, Australian Centre for Jewish Civilisation, Monash University The eight-day Jewish festival of Hanukkah begins Sunday, December 22. From Melbourne and New York to Berlin and Moscow, thousands of people will gather to light giant menorahs. In many places, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Larissa McLean Davies, Associate Professor Language and Literacy Education, University of Melbourne Alfred Tatum, a US education professor specialising in literacy for African American boys, coined the term “bookprint”. He said it’s something we all have – a list of books that ...
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2010 – Pike River – a catastrophe caused by slack, light handed regulation, allowing the operator to call the shots on safety and letting commercial pressures drive decision making.
2019 – White Island – a catastrophe caused by slack, light handed regulation, allowing the operator to call the shots on safety and letting commercial pressures drive decision making.
2028 – /insert next tragedy here/ a catastrophe caused by slack, light handed regulation, allowing the operator to call the shots on safety and letting commercial pressures drive decision making.
Rinse and repeat ad nauseam.
Yes Pike River.
We don't know about White Island yet.
Oh and my advise to the people of Whakatane?
Don't let the gutless bastards who run the police these days stop you going to recover bodies from the island. It is your island, your decision. Tell the cops you'll do as you please, get in your machines, and go get those people if that is what you feel is the right thing to do.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018726369/whakaari-white-island-doctor-on-what-he-found
Sanctuary, the police announcements do have an echo of them talking about safety for their officers after the Pike River explosion. But then other people with experience have viewed the terrain and can speak about the conditions prevailing and from their reports we know that they must be dead because of the cyanide effect on the body from the gases and the burns from steam.
Do you think that police should not be the ones in charge after non-criminal events like this, this sort of natural tragedy? Would it be better to expand the Civil Defence units, and leave the police to concentrate on their own affairs? It seems to me that they have become too widely spread. Also more personally protective beyond what would be expected, and at the same time more of their work is being done by the Fire Service. And we don't want them hurt in carrying out their jobs either, but they seem to try to be careful but also tackle their essential task without reluctance.
Then there is the control for safety issue of the island. Though it is right by Whakatane, it is overseen by the Internal Affairs Department because off-shore islands fall into their bag. Yet it is Whakatane that people will come to when there is a disaster like this, and some of their own people are involved. So who keeps an overview should be looked at and it seems Whakatane should be the body for overseeing White Island as first call.
Then there is the situation of the island being privately owned. I would have thought it would be in public ownership, something like a National Park.
Then there is the attitude about tourism with risk. One woman said that NZ sells itself as an adventure tourism destination and it seemed she was saying, deaths and injuries happen. A bit casual, she'll be right is the way she sounded to me. The trouble with a tourism business, is that they have bookings and want to keep the business going and will underestimate risk. It has been registered as 2 on the risk scale for a while but they have not closed down as a preventative measure, and only they can decide. Hey that is not very responsible that NZ Inc as a tourism destination comes across as casual. We have been severely criticised in the past by a parent of a dead tourist. Just forgotten the details.
Kathryn Ryan made the point that it was a different sort of event to say a Ruapehu eruption. This one was close and personal, people couldn't run fast and get away. The combination of super-heated steam and sulphurous gases were deadly and would burn skin and airways. Nasty.
Also though it was mentioned in the same breath as adventure tourism, it was being used as an attraction for a cruise ship, presumably an interesting walk on an island that is an active volcanic site for cruisers who are not usually your mountaineers, and adventurers, but just lookers with money wanting a quick sample of the local features. They would be advised what clothing to wear etc. but I wonder if they were told that it was up to Category 2 on the action scale, and was showing signs of greater activity and thus greater risk.
If I was a passenger, I would be looking at a class action against the tour operators. So button down Buttles? The government should wait a while and then offer them a low price for it which will help them pay their legal bills. That is if there is a government in the Beehive and not just a lot of buzzing drones flying around in unproductive circles.
There is something I am not sure about also. I would like NZ Inc to be not making a loss after having to provide rescue efforts and hospital care, (I see the news says that the burns unit is full). Are these treated as externalities by tourism companies? Is there a reliance on ACC? If there is, the public should be aware that what ACC provides is not the complete recovery assistance which someone who could sue would ask for.
There definitely needs to be a public liability insurance or whatever to cover any costs incurred by tourism agencies, otherwise profits from tourism bringing benefits to the country are largely illusory. Has Treasury done a paper on this? You conservatives who love to quote the official line and figures – do you know if the costs of tourist mishaps are counted, calculated and recovered, or better pre-paid as extra charges through some insurance scheme.
Everyone of the survivors are already a million dollar plus cost. We are giving the everything we've got, unstintingly, because we are good people who take care of our guests.
But also need to work out if we failed a duty of care.
That's pretty silly advice as going there at the moment would be very dangerous without the correct equipment. Maybe you should listen to the audio provided below by Pat as they were finding it difficult to breathe etc. as soon as they arrived and that was through the breathing equipment.
White Island is owned by an Auckland family. https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/118071975/whakaariwhite-island-owner-the-buttle-family-declines-to-comment-after-deadly-eruption
Dec 2019
Another tragedy?
People of Whakatane on quixotic quest to recover bodies suffer asphyxiation
yet another example of lax standards and unqualified people calling the shots?..
Yeah, nah
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/405238/live-whakaari-white-island-eruption-day-3
two questions.
1. what is the rush? Given the risk, what is the point of going today instead of waiting? Pike River was different because recovery people weren't allowed in for a very long time, and it's likely that this was in part to prevent investigation of what happened. I'm not seeing that motivation or dynamic here.
2. what should the response be of the various authorities if people go and get into trouble and need rescuing?
Pike River was different because the mines rescue experts believed it was safe to go in right after the initial explosion and the Police stopped them.
None of the expert first responders in this situation are saying that the island is safe enough. Just some armchair warriors.
thanks, I'd missed that nuance.
Conflation is a common tactic of the righties who have been beating their puny chests about this.
Apart from the first responders who already rescued 12 people in helicopters, and presumably have years of first hand experience with the island.
which are saying it is safe?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118103101/whakaariwhite-island-helicopter-pilot-said-conditions-perfect-to-recover-bodies
There have been flyovers today but the geologists note continuing ground tremors and risk of further activity – thus the work and safety side prevents action.
Just not as high as that faced by those getting the burnt off the island, so little wonder a person who was involved then is prepared to get the bodies off as well.
It would seem that your advise is worth about as much as it is accurate.
It’s not their island – it’s privately owned.
it’s not their decision either.
to suggest people do as thy please if they feel it’s right – with a possibility of risk to their safety is absolutely moronic.
Yet if people had not done so it would have been worse on Monday.
Calling someone moronic must be a no-no especially when they are upset about people dying and being injured! It is a case for helping thinking things through and being a bit understanding. Without being judgmental or sour.
It's a messy one, a pilot reckoned the day to get the bodies was yesterday (wind cleared away the ash fumes etc and before today's tremors) – but police drones could not fly till today. And apparently they need to survey the scene of the corpse layout for a coronal inquiry (safest by drone to minimise time on the ground etc) before removing bodies etc.
I called what he was suggesting moronic- and it is. I didn’t call him / her moronic.
I’ll add selfish, poorly thoughtout, stupid and dangerous.
People take personal risks all the time. And there are those advocating banning bullrush as part of their school safety programme. There are those exercising their choices and those who would prevent them, is either moronic or both?
what's the rationale for banning bullrush?
From the mid-1980s some schools decided to ban bullrush because they were concerned they would be held liable when children were hurt.
https://www.google.com/search?q=banning+bullrush&oq=banning+bullrush&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
the biggest complaints were damage to school uniforms…and the cost of replacement
lol, I didn't know that.
Liability is a different issue again. Hadn't thought about that in terms of Whakaari and the police.
It's more workplace safety than liability. There will be an assessment of the tour operators on that side, apart from the coronal inquiry, the police cannot very well breach of that themselves.
However it seems the biggest risks of safe work practice (other staff coming in after they heard of the eruption) were taken by those rescuing people, if they had not done this, more lives would have been lost.
on the basis of what I’ve read/seen so far, I have zero problem with the actions of people in the first hour after the explosion (chopper pilots, boat operators, first aiders).
What Sanctuary was suggesting is something quite different.
it’s interesting to consider that the boat operators probably made the decision to go back without talking to the passengers.
"Yet if people had not done so it would have been worse on Monday."
True. But, that was to save lives, and either needed to happen immediately or not at all, so the justification is for different reasons. It's also valid for people to take action in the moment even if it puts themselves at risk (bearing in mind that the pilots have expertise in assessing risk as well as making judgement calls about that and the value of their own lives). That is different from planning to do something that is dangerous in order to achieve something that can be done at a later date.
What bothers me is:
1/ If the police had of been on in charge earlier, or the chopper pilots not acted so quickly, then the survivors of the blast rescued by the helicopters would most likely have been left to die of their injuries on the island while the cops dithered for "health and safety" reasons.
2/ The rationale behind police decision making these days seems to be a creeping US style thinking that their lives are more valuable than those of the public. Car loads of heavily armed cops cruising South Auckland in black SUVs for vague reasons also seems to just come back to the police adopting a hyper-cautious approach to risking police lives, even if it means others are needlessly killed.
Sometimes people in emergency and rescue services have to take risks. More importantly, sometimes they are willing to risk their lives to rescue people. That is why when they do we call them heroes.
It is sometimes important to empower people to respond to a local disaster with what they consider to be appropriate steps. Imposing a top down, bureaucratic and technocratic solution based on a rigid adherence to rules can sometimes not be the best outcome. If local people are willing to run the low risk they’ll be on the island when it erupts again in order to recover bodies, who is to say they shouldn’t be allowed to?
They are not stupid. They know what they would be going into.
If the police had of been on in charge earlier, or the chopper pilots not acted so quickly, then the survivors of the blast rescued by the helicopters would most likely have been left to die of their injuries on the island while the cops dithered for "health and safety" reasons
I call bullshit on this.
The police have very difficult jobs to do, especially in major situations like this. They don't always do things well, but they often do, putting themselves at risk on a daily basis.
Cheap shots like this are shitty.
Your love of authority doing nothing while hiding behind sophistry is well known Pete, so your reply doesn't surprise me.
We all know it would have played out. After a few weeks, the bodies are recovered and the police declare they most likely all died of unsurvivable injuries during the blast. And Pete George would go, “Thank goodness our police who I trust uncritically have reassured me they didn’t fuck it up and leave people to die, how right they were!”
Good morning. Having a go at each other is not helpful and it bores the shit out of others.
I don't know about that, taking down Pete George is fun game the whole family can play IMHO.
"Your love of authority doing nothing while hiding behind sophistry is well known Pete"
I call bullshit on that too. You're making it up, no evidence, it's false.
"“Thank goodness our police who I trust uncritically have reassured me they didn’t fuck it up and leave people to die, how right they were!”
And on that. That's just pathetic.
The police have an essential role to play in a civil society (perhaps that doesn't apply here), they're not perfect but they're far better than the alternative.
Sanctuary,
What are you basing that on? My sense is that people first at the scene will make their own decisions and that it's generally accepted in NZ that people can choose to risk their own lives in such a situation. Had the first helicopter passing by when Whakaari blew been a police helicopter I would expect them to have done pretty much what the private chopper pilots did. Maybe I am wrong about that, but I'd like to see what you are basing your opinion on.
I'm not seeing the connection. There's a difference between police killing others in an active criminal situation vs saving people's lives in an SAR or first response to emergency situation. Arming cops on the street is a really bad idea, but can you point to cultural reasons within the police that link that to decisions that are made during civil emergencies?
I think it's likely that all agencies now have more formal risk assessment processes, in part driven by legislation. Are we sure the decision to delay recovery of the bodies is on the police alone? What is CD's role in this?
When do you think the tourists should be allowed back? I think the central point here is that we don't know what the risk is. When you say low risk, what are you basing that on? The risk was considered low on the day the volcano blew.
The only private person I've seen saying he wants to go back is the pilot RNZ interviewed. It's a great interview, but I don't think he is saying that it's safe. He's saying that he thinks a 20 minute window would be enough in an unknown safety situation. I'm not sure that 20 minutes would be enough to properly recover the bodies, but I'd be interested if there's been expert opinion expressed on that.
I'm mindful that on the day of the explosion there were all sorts of people on twitter demanding to know why no-one was going back to look for survivors. As it turns out, the first responders twice checked for survivors and made the decision on the ground that there weren't any other than those they were evacuating. The public didn't get told until midnight that the believe was there were no survivors, and even then there wasn't really an explanation about that. But I think it's safe to say the police and CD had their hands full.
In other words, police, CD and geonet/GNS will all have access to information that you and I don't have.
An example of the inadequate official communication that the Police Minister was talking about yesterday?
Not sure. I wondered if Nash was talking about how police were communicating with family of victims.
I assume all the services will review practice, but I'm not sure updating the public on the first evening would have been a priority. Not sure if the first responder pilots also then flew people to hospitals. Might have been a while before police were able to do interviews formal enough to release information to the public. I'm guessing there was a fair amount of chaos given the numbers of agencies and public involved.
Anybody whose duty it would be to rescue them – a duty they can't opt out of. By all means, change the current law and professional standards if that's desired.
And most of us will defer to actual volcano and rescue experts about whether the risk is 'low' thanks.
Risk is a combination of likelihood (being on the island at the wrong time) and impact (effects of an eruption). People and organisations will tolerate a higher likelihood if the impact is low.
A nearby volcanic eruption does not match that calculation. Boiling acid, superhot magma, projectiles and ash flows that nobody can outrun are not things you'd bet against unless you are reckless or stupid. Certainly not something you would bet someone else's life on unless you do not value it much.
Finally , journalists from diverse backgrounds rally to defend Assange in an open letter signed by hundreds
"The journalists write: “We hold the governments of the United States of America, the United Kingdom, Ecuador and Sweden accountable for the human rights violations to which Mr Assange has been subjected.”
They cite a powerful comment from Melzer, who wrote earlier this year: “It finally dawned on me that I had been blinded by propaganda, and that Assange had been systematically slandered to divert attention from the crimes he exposed.” The UN official pointed to the role of the corporate press in demonising Assange and repeating the smears against him concocted by the intelligence agencies."
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/12/09/jour-d09.html
Julian Assange will be released from prison and offered all the psychological assistance he requires after Jeremy Corbyn becomes the PM of the UK in a few days from now.
It'll be interesting to see the take of various pop media outlets that have in turn courted him and buried him. Same for the gangs of hand wringing, nose led liberals who couldn't help shove him down a hole fast enough after initially hailing him as a hero.
I'm guessing that this will age poorly and Bills political judgement will be shown to be incredibly misplaced.
Or I might be wrong.
we will know in a few days.
"“A Labour victory would represent a sharp break with neoliberalism, the failed economic orthodoxy of the past four decades, which makes an idol of the “market” and re-distributes wealth and power ever-upward "
https://www.thecanary.co/exclusive/2019/12/10/a-powerful-show-of-solidarity-for-jeremy-corbyn-and-the-labour-party-from-america/
I have been looking at the Irish Potato Famine story and parts of the furore over Ireland in the English parliament are reminiscent of Brexit and the slackness of government where firm resolve to do the sensible as well as the right thing has not prevailed.
Think how the Irish were treated by the UK. There was heavy oppression (austerity) on the population by Brit landlords who ground the Irish tenants down, and took all the profits from their large landholdings away from investing it and growing Irish business, back to Britain.
Landlords in Ireland often used their powers without compunction, and tenants lived in dread of them. Woodham-Smith writes that, in these circumstances, "industry and enterprise were extinguished and a peasantry created which was one of the most destitute in Europe.
And there was export of food from Ireland during the famine which puts a final screw on the horrific tale of misuse of the Irish to the extent they believed that England was planning genocide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)#Irish_food_exports_during_Famine
There were numerous times of hardship but the potato blight arrived in Europe about 1844 and from 1845 to 1851 hit the Irish hard. This from the Wikipedia Famine link below reminds me of the UK hoo-ha over recent years from hardship caused by Margaret Thatcher and the adoption of a dose of austerity medicine to the UK public to Brexit, an attack of hubris on the supposedly seasoned heads in UK government.
In October 1845, Peel moved to repeal the Corn Laws—tariffs on grain which kept the price of bread artificially high—but the issue split his party and he had insufficient support from his own colleagues to push the measure through.
He resigned the premiership in December, but the opposition was unable to form a government and he was re-appointed. In March, Peel set up a programme of public works in Ireland but the famine situation worsened during 1846, and the repeal of the Corn Laws in that year did little to help the starving Irish; the measure split the Conservative Party, leading to the fall of Peel's ministry.
On 25 June, the second reading of the government's Irish Coercion Bill was defeated by 73 votes in the House of Commons by a combination of Whigs, Radicals, Irish Repealers, and protectionist Conservatives. Peel was forced to resign as prime minister on 29 June, and the Whig leader, Lord John Russell, assumed the seals of office.
Wikipedia link on Ireland's background of long-suffering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland) There seems a parallel with Brexit's lack of vision.
A Labour victory with Corbyn in charge would fuck the UK for decades
So BAU then.
A well-reasoned argument from Alan, well done.
Would the Labour party have more chance of winning if Jeremy Corbyn was not the leader?
NZ Labour party changed leaders very close to an election in 2017 with spectacular results?
A couple of days before the election might be leaving it a bit late.
Good point! I was actually more just musing as to if the Labour party had had a different leader for say the last six months would they have more chance?
Almost certainly. But who? And how is the best way to choose that leader?
I'm kinda coming to the view that leader selection processes may have swung a bit too far towards systems that give too much emphasis to the fringes of party membership, and not enough weight to the leader's colleagues (who really are in a better position to assess who actually has the skills to be an effective leader).
For examples of the former, see "Cunliffe", "Little", "Corbyn", "Sanders". For the latter, see "Ardern", "Clark". Though "Clinton" and "Shearer" stand as pretty solid arguments against the latter idea.
I believe they absolutely would have.
corbyn is unelectable.
"The most important conclusion to be drawn from the paranoia into which New Zealand politics has fallen is that its ugly manifestations are driving more and more voters out of their old political pigeon-holes. Those who still see a point in voting are casting their ballots more out of habit than conviction. There may already be an electoral majority in support of a political style that is neither delusional nor irrational.
All it needs is a party."
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2019/12/delusional-and-irrational-rise-of.html
Chris Trotter advocating for a new political party, in an already crowded field….assuming theres the will what level of support could it expect? or is this NZ First's future when Winston departs?
Colonel Trotter really is struggling to understand today's world through the goggles of his up-the-workers youth. His recent reckons and bedfellows suggest Winston First might be the most comfortable retirement home for him.
That may or may not be so…but the relevance isnt about his personal position but rather what proportion of the electorate share it
Probably. It's not like he can bring himself to support the party in parliament with actual left wing policies.
Trotter's obviously quite at home contributing to whaleoil and now its just as incredulous successor.
what's its successor?
That site they set up by copying all whaleoik's files and contact list, defying the official receiver. Called 'bdf' or something? Same cling-ons, same rubbish.
Is Trotter writing there?
No idea sorry. Not willing to find out. 🙂
lol, me neither.
it's bad enough just contemplating that it might be true.
He's writing there. He's got his own author's page describing him as a weekly columnist with links to everything he's contributed. He's posted something every week since 1 April.
YSB
AOK
Thats not really surprising given his alignment with Jim Anderton's New Labour back in the day…he is , like many i'd suggest, somebody without a natrual political home in todays environment
He doesn't have to cosy up to the Greens to support them on their policy platform. I've long found his negativity towards the left odd.
The Greens are not his home, and id suggest never will be…he is like my parents, an old school social democrat…theres a lot of them about
Yes, my question is more about why he doesn't support the Greens anyway? Where did this political home thing being so exclusionary come from? Lots of people don't have a political home, it's ok to still support parties that are doing good things. The alternative is a fractured left, where too many people think that politics has to be what they want it to be or else (which does appear to be where we are at).
I dont know how old you are but you need to view from the perspective of someone of his generation (im a little younger than him,but not much)….we are all a product of our environment
I'm in my early 50s. I see people much younger than CT doing this too, but he's had longer to figure out the strategy failure in such an approach.
theres no strategy approach…its visceral
CT’s writings are visceral? Ouch!
“theres no strategy approach…its visceral”
I’m sure that’s at least partly true. But then that’s the problem isn’t it. He’s smart enough to understand that strategy matters for the greater cause and that one’s gut can undermine that if not used wisely. He makes his political choices just like the rest of us.
Bowelly.
zing, Andre!
He's of a generation that has, and thus wants to keep, so while a social democrat he was against the CGT because people of his generation did not support it.
He likes to pose with the left, but not if it is not popular with his peers, and as you know a lot of oldies voted for Brexit (for the little England of their youth – nostalgia). His is the nostalgia of one no longer of the left, now a cynical realist broken by struggles lost – tired and conceding defeat.
He is like the American Catholic middle class – once Democrats, but now many vote GOP seduced by being white and middle class thus acceptable to their now WASP brethren. Or like Bryce Edwards as long as he is not actually left advocating, he can be a media commentator too as one of their token lefties. Or like Josie Pagani advocating a Labour tax cut strategy to get re-elected, so we remain with inadequate government funding.
thanks SPC, that makes a lot of sense.
it is a problem…possibly insoluble. We might think we are making rational decisions but I suspect we largely only seek out justification for our gut instincts…and why would CT be any different?
plenty of people know how to use their minds, and use gut and brain in making decisions about how they act.
plenty?…enough to change an election result?
one would hope that a seasoned political commentator like Trotter had a better hold of his reason. Changing an election result happens because of many factors, and the influence on that includes political commentary. Which takes me back to finding it odd that he can’t bring himself to support the party with the most left wing policies, assuming those are his actual values. I suspect what SPC is saying is part of it.
@SPC
think that is a harsh and inaccurate assessment..CT's generation of social dems are by and large unwitting beneficiaries of the asset inflation…indeed many of them are happy to risk their own futures to help their children/grandchildren…there is I fear a deep misunderstanding of the motivations of the older generations
Sure, for a minority of boomers. Most do not vote social democrat – look at the voting statistics – how those born 1948-64 vote.
@SPC…not sure where you get your stats …the voting turnout for that demographic is high but its split is unknown as far as I can see
@weka…a better hold on his reason? you think that commentators are somehow different/unaffected as the rest of us?
I can cite that the Tory and GOP have older voters on their side – and have seen in the past similar stats here. And one would presume that would be the case. But I canna find anything on google search, not sure why.
one should never presume…and was discussing NZ
But one can cite experienced commentators on the local political scene
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2019/12/driving-us-up-poll.html
again, thats an assumption…is worth remembering that a good chunk of those 'boomers' and pre boomers have voted Labour/left all their lives….old habits die hard
SPC – I as a disillusioned Boomer who have always voted Left, would warn you that human nature is what it is, and that your generations and others are very likely to be just as disappointing as we Boomers have shown to be. We all suffer from the same human afflictions. So don't get too haughty, huh?
Well here is some demographic information, as to age and the oldies …
https://insights.nzherald.co.nz/article/how-new-zealand-votes/
https://www.psychology.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/Voter-Sentiment-Demographics-and-Psychological-Correlates-private-1.pdf
Or slightly easier to digest and interactive (i.e. you can play with it): https://insights.nzherald.co.nz/article/how-new-zealand-votes/
There’s loads more and that’s just for NZ. Search on “voting preference by age” and you’ll be busy for a while 😉
Edit: snap!
In Vino, why presume I am not just another boomer?
Yeah I found the psychology one first, eyes glazed over it … looked for something else.
I forgot the question 🙁
Good to read you pat having a discussion that doesn't just adopt whatever the conformist view is. I like Chris Trotter because he plays with ideas, looks at what has been done before. Looks at the gap between rhetoric and reality. Sets up strawmen and then takes them down. He exposes himself to ridicule by putting down ideas that others won't consider, but which we need to think about. What Parties say they believe in, what we think of them and their policies, and whether they will be true to their principles, and whether they are practically achievable, it all has to be thought about and sometimes exposed as faulty. It's dirty work but someone has to do it.
pretty meaningless data that SPC….have you actually viewed it?
The bit about over 65's more likely to vote National than Labour. …
I see that state house tenants are considered as likely to prefer National over Labour as over 65s….who'd have thought.
Some surprising stuff, such as over 65's preferring National and Labour to NZF – NZF is not as strong there as their reputation suggests.
Yeah, it’s National 1 and Greens 2nd with state house tenants. Must be those who pay the market rent for a good bones old state house (pre leaky homes era) and who also vote.
lol…its crap
Thanks for posting the graph from the just been UK election…I had already seen it and it holds some useful data about that event. As you have posted it here I assume you are trying to draw some comparison with this thread and the other (so called) graph you linked.
There is no comparison.
Your earlier link (https://insights.nzherald.co.nz/article/how-new-zealand-votes/) is an overlay of census data on election results by polling booth which has too many variables and assumptions . It then displays those assumptions with an unquantified graph so we have no way of knowing what it is expressing. Finally there are contradictions and unlikely results that should be ringing warning bells and demand verification by alternate method….in other words…it is crap
@ Incognito…if youre honest with yourself your own posts are likely so
I won’t pretend otherwise.
lol…well it always helps to be aware
Sour Sacha – suck a lemon.
you've been warned before about poking people with a stick. Please stop.
Are you prescribing homeopathy? 🙂
Well since Metirea and Cunliffe were taken out at the knees. And since the managerial set in Labour have well and truly buried any move to democratise the party. And since the only social democrat on the scene is an old school right winger…yeah, there's an almost empty lane waiting to be claimed by simply promoting a social democratic alternative to NZ's woeful liberalism (think Corbyn/Sanders/SNP etc)
yep..thats why I nominated NZ First…sans Winston
Yeah but…are you suggesting Peters is the only old school Tory in the NZ First ranks? That he suppresses a left leaning social democratic tendency within the party? Not seeing it myself, but hey…
No…Peters is old school no doubt…but hes an old school politician…theres a difference between the voter and the voted for.
Winston is a divisive character (personality) but the party has the potential to have a wider appeal…sans Winston. Its basis is old school social democrat…that is not to say I support it but I see the appeal for a demographic
The Tory lead has dropped again in the latest You Gov poll.
https://yougov.co.uk/uk-general-election-2019/
Still looks unlikely for Labour – but here's hoping!!
So apparently (just reading this atm) no polls have factored in people under the age of 39 who registered this year. That's about 4 million people 'blanked'.
And if you look at footage of Corbyn in public and contrast it to footage of Johnson…it really doesn't gel with the narrative being spun by pop media outlets. Corbyn draws crowds and Johnson draws jeers.
Earlier today (or was it last night?) I ran a wee thought experiment on how pop media would likely slant stuff if Labour was looking good…
Pop media reflects the interests of elites. And the last thing they want is for a Corbyn led government to be offering the British public the option of remaining in Europe but being free from Europe's economic liberal straitjacket (the one that renders any social democratic policy platform unlawful) – or of remaining in Europe with the straitjacket still on.
People will opt for the first of those options. And that option fucks elites up. (Reversal of all those privatisation cash cows etc)
So to prevent a Labour/SNP majority, it's absolutely necessary for elites to discourage the Labour vote and hope for a hung parliament – hence the "foregone conclusion" bullshit that just doesn't accord with what can be seen at those public events/rallies.
Edit – Hmm, it also appears, if I’m reading things correctly (poll data hurts my head btw) that the polls being reported are generally conducted by way of “online panel”…
Thanks Bill – the youth vote will be crucial for a Labour win. I haven't got my head around how well different polls are measuring this.
A lot has been said about the YouGov MRP model (which currently predicts a Tory win), because 'it got it right last time'. But actually a track record of getting one election right once doesn't mean that much. I looked through the methodology – what isn't clear is when their panel of registered voters was selected (and specifically whether it can include the most recent registrations – perhaps it can't)?
No comments yet on the announcement by Grant Robertson?
This is the best thing that labour has done since forming the current government
We need the list of projects.
If they are to get any poll-reversal upwards they need to be specific and do-able.
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1912/S00091/12-billion-in-extra-infrastructure-investment.htm
And I have to ask the bonkers question: if their surplus is that big, maybe they don't need our taxes as much, so maybe they should give some back.
Shit twice today I've thought you belong in the national party. Or are you planning on going full Colonial Viper?
Can see where you're coming from, but a bit harsh lol
Everybody knows you never go full CV.
Would one be aware that they are circling the wormhole ,edging closer to the vortex that sucks them into CV land?
Top form today. onya
You favour tax cuts over hospitals and school maintenance?
It's not Thursday yet ducky.
Mr Jones? You okay?
So if we dig up, as a species, CHx and burn them. And to mitigate the effects we bury, mineralize in carbonated, or other COx aren't we adding hydrogen and removing oxygen from the biosphere? As the sea oxygen depletes, is it a good idea to depend on co2 sequestration, doesn't it create a new problem? o2 loss.
Solution, ban the private automobile globally.
Shane Jones taken from Parliament in an ambulance. All the best Shane.
I was going to ask you why you would fund tarseal of The Lost Highway seeing the gravel was part of the experience. And why you aren't putting that money into investigating a decent road around Raetihi and Whanganui that won't slip into the river. That is really important, not giving the tourists from the cities a nice smooth road. When they are in the backblocks why not let them get the whole experience?
Update
Politics is brutal.
David Duke will be delighted.
Is that a piss-take Joe? It has to be!
Granted, Zionism was an attempt to recast Judaism as a race/ethnicity. So on that front, the Netanyahu's of the world will be well pleased. But…well, what's to prevent an executive order designating Catholicism as a nationality? And why would that be any less absurd?
Serious, and seriously unimpressive.
and
‘
Hate Speaker in Chief
Two days after President Trump delivers a speech littered with antisemitic tropes and memes, two mass shooters motivated by antisemitic views target a Jewish market in Jersey City.
<a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/11/nyregion/jersey-city-shooting.html" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/11/nyregion/jersey-city-shooting.html</a>
<a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/12/09/trump-israeli-american-council-anti-semitic-claims/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/12/09/trump-israeli-american-council-anti-semitic-claims/</a>
Anyone know when the UK election results will start coming in, NZT?
Friday night probably, our time. dunno whether it takes them minutes or hours to count the votes.
Looking like mid afternoon Friday (3am UK time).
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/10/2019-general-election-uk-vote-result-exit-polls/
Exit polls announced when voting has closed, 11am Fri NZT.
Second UK election question. Who are you all following that's got the good takes?