2010 – Pike River – a catastrophe caused by slack, light handed regulation, allowing the operator to call the shots on safety and letting commercial pressures drive decision making.
2019 – White Island – a catastrophe caused by slack, light handed regulation, allowing the operator to call the shots on safety and letting commercial pressures drive decision making.
2028 – /insert next tragedy here/ a catastrophe caused by slack, light handed regulation, allowing the operator to call the shots on safety and letting commercial pressures drive decision making.
Don't let the gutless bastards who run the police these days stop you going to recover bodies from the island. It is your island, your decision. Tell the cops you'll do as you please, get in your machines, and go get those people if that is what you feel is the right thing to do.
Sanctuary, the police announcements do have an echo of them talking about safety for their officers after the Pike River explosion. But then other people with experience have viewed the terrain and can speak about the conditions prevailing and from their reports we know that they must be dead because of the cyanide effect on the body from the gases and the burns from steam.
Do you think that police should not be the ones in charge after non-criminal events like this, this sort of natural tragedy? Would it be better to expand the Civil Defence units, and leave the police to concentrate on their own affairs? It seems to me that they have become too widely spread. Also more personally protective beyond what would be expected, and at the same time more of their work is being done by the Fire Service. And we don't want them hurt in carrying out their jobs either, but they seem to try to be careful but also tackle their essential task without reluctance.
Then there is the control for safety issue of the island. Though it is right by Whakatane, it is overseen by the Internal Affairs Department because off-shore islands fall into their bag. Yet it is Whakatane that people will come to when there is a disaster like this, and some of their own people are involved. So who keeps an overview should be looked at and it seems Whakatane should be the body for overseeing White Island as first call.
Then there is the situation of the island being privately owned. I would have thought it would be in public ownership, something like a National Park.
Then there is the attitude about tourism with risk. One woman said that NZ sells itself as an adventure tourism destination and it seemed she was saying, deaths and injuries happen. A bit casual, she'll be right is the way she sounded to me. The trouble with a tourism business, is that they have bookings and want to keep the business going and will underestimate risk. It has been registered as 2 on the risk scale for a while but they have not closed down as a preventative measure, and only they can decide. Hey that is not very responsible that NZ Inc as a tourism destination comes across as casual. We have been severely criticised in the past by a parent of a dead tourist. Just forgotten the details.
Kathryn Ryan made the point that it was a different sort of event to say a Ruapehu eruption. This one was close and personal, people couldn't run fast and get away. The combination of super-heated steam and sulphurous gases were deadly and would burn skin and airways. Nasty.
Also though it was mentioned in the same breath as adventure tourism, it was being used as an attraction for a cruise ship, presumably an interesting walk on an island that is an active volcanic site for cruisers who are not usually your mountaineers, and adventurers, but just lookers with money wanting a quick sample of the local features. They would be advised what clothing to wear etc. but I wonder if they were told that it was up to Category 2 on the action scale, and was showing signs of greater activity and thus greater risk.
If I was a passenger, I would be looking at a class action against the tour operators. So button down Buttles? The government should wait a while and then offer them a low price for it which will help them pay their legal bills. That is if there is a government in the Beehive and not just a lot of buzzing drones flying around in unproductive circles.
There is something I am not sure about also. I would like NZ Inc to be not making a loss after having to provide rescue efforts and hospital care, (I see the news says that the burns unit is full). Are these treated as externalities by tourism companies? Is there a reliance on ACC? If there is, the public should be aware that what ACC provides is not the complete recovery assistance which someone who could sue would ask for.
There definitely needs to be a public liability insurance or whatever to cover any costs incurred by tourism agencies, otherwise profits from tourism bringing benefits to the country are largely illusory. Has Treasury done a paper on this? You conservatives who love to quote the official line and figures – do you know if the costs of tourist mishaps are counted, calculated and recovered, or better pre-paid as extra charges through some insurance scheme.
Everyone of the survivors are already a million dollar plus cost. We are giving the everything we've got, unstintingly, because we are good people who take care of our guests.
But also need to work out if we failed a duty of care.
That's pretty silly advice as going there at the moment would be very dangerous without the correct equipment. Maybe you should listen to the audio provided below by Pat as they were finding it difficult to breathe etc. as soon as they arrived and that was through the breathing equipment.
The decision to not return to the island can’t have been an easy one to make – but it was the decision made by people with skills, training and qualifications to make such decisions.
There will be a time to debate what the correct response to these things should be – and it’s a valid discussion worth having. There could be lessons to learn from tragedy. Just not now.
1. what is the rush? Given the risk, what is the point of going today instead of waiting? Pike River was different because recovery people weren't allowed in for a very long time, and it's likely that this was in part to prevent investigation of what happened. I'm not seeing that motivation or dynamic here.
2. what should the response be of the various authorities if people go and get into trouble and need rescuing?
There have been flyovers today but the geologists note continuing ground tremors and risk of further activity – thus the work and safety side prevents action.
Just not as high as that faced by those getting the burnt off the island, so little wonder a person who was involved then is prepared to get the bodies off as well.
Calling someone moronic must be a no-no especially when they are upset about people dying and being injured! It is a case for helping thinking things through and being a bit understanding. Without being judgmental or sour.
It's a messy one, a pilot reckoned the day to get the bodies was yesterday (wind cleared away the ash fumes etc and before today's tremors) – but police drones could not fly till today. And apparently they need to survey the scene of the corpse layout for a coronal inquiry (safest by drone to minimise time on the ground etc) before removing bodies etc.
People take personal risks all the time. And there are those advocating banning bullrush as part of their school safety programme. There are those exercising their choices and those who would prevent them, is either moronic or both?
It's more workplace safety than liability. There will be an assessment of the tour operators on that side, apart from the coronal inquiry, the police cannot very well breach of that themselves.
However it seems the biggest risks of safe work practice (other staff coming in after they heard of the eruption) were taken by those rescuing people, if they had not done this, more lives would have been lost.
on the basis of what I’ve read/seen so far, I have zero problem with the actions of people in the first hour after the explosion (chopper pilots, boat operators, first aiders).
What Sanctuary was suggesting is something quite different.
"Yet if people had not done so it would have been worse on Monday."
True. But, that was to save lives, and either needed to happen immediately or not at all, so the justification is for different reasons. It's also valid for people to take action in the moment even if it puts themselves at risk (bearing in mind that the pilots have expertise in assessing risk as well as making judgement calls about that and the value of their own lives). That is different from planning to do something that is dangerous in order to achieve something that can be done at a later date.
1/ If the police had of been on in charge earlier, or the chopper pilots not acted so quickly, then the survivors of the blast rescued by the helicopters would most likely have been left to die of their injuries on the island while the cops dithered for "health and safety" reasons.
2/ The rationale behind police decision making these days seems to be a creeping US style thinking that their lives are more valuable than those of the public. Car loads of heavily armed cops cruising South Auckland in black SUVs for vague reasons also seems to just come back to the police adopting a hyper-cautious approach to risking police lives, even if it means others are needlessly killed.
Sometimes people in emergency and rescue services have to take risks. More importantly, sometimes they are willing to risk their lives to rescue people. That is why when they do we call them heroes.
It is sometimes important to empower people to respond to a local disaster with what they consider to be appropriate steps. Imposing a top down, bureaucratic and technocratic solution based on a rigid adherence to rules can sometimes not be the best outcome. If local people are willing to run the low risk they’ll be on the island when it erupts again in order to recover bodies, who is to say they shouldn’t be allowed to?
They are not stupid. They know what they would be going into.
If the police had of been on in charge earlier, or the chopper pilots not acted so quickly, then the survivors of the blast rescued by the helicopters would most likely have been left to die of their injuries on the island while the cops dithered for "health and safety" reasons
I call bullshit on this.
The police have very difficult jobs to do, especially in major situations like this. They don't always do things well, but they often do, putting themselves at risk on a daily basis.
Your love of authority doing nothing while hiding behind sophistry is well known Pete, so your reply doesn't surprise me.
We all know it would have played out. After a few weeks, the bodies are recovered and the police declare they most likely all died of unsurvivable injuries during the blast. And Pete George would go, “Thank goodness our police who I trust uncritically have reassured me they didn’t fuck it up and leave people to die, how right they were!”
"Your love of authority doing nothing while hiding behind sophistry is well known Pete"
I call bullshit on that too. You're making it up, no evidence, it's false.
"“Thank goodness our police who I trust uncritically have reassured me they didn’t fuck it up and leave people to die, how right they were!”
And on that. That's just pathetic.
The police have an essential role to play in a civil society (perhaps that doesn't apply here), they're not perfect but they're far better than the alternative.
If the police had of been on in charge earlier, or the chopper pilots not acted so quickly, then the survivors of the blast rescued by the helicopters would most likely have been left to die of their injuries on the island while the cops dithered for "health and safety" reasons.
What are you basing that on? My sense is that people first at the scene will make their own decisions and that it's generally accepted in NZ that people can choose to risk their own lives in such a situation. Had the first helicopter passing by when Whakaari blew been a police helicopter I would expect them to have done pretty much what the private chopper pilots did. Maybe I am wrong about that, but I'd like to see what you are basing your opinion on.
The rationale behind police decision making these days seems to be a creeping US style thinking that their lives are more valuable than those of the public. Car loads of heavily armed cops cruising South Auckland in black SUVs for vague reasons also seems to just come back to the police adopting a hyper-cautious approach to risking police lives, even if it means others are needlessly killed.
I'm not seeing the connection. There's a difference between police killing others in an active criminal situation vs saving people's lives in an SAR or first response to emergency situation. Arming cops on the street is a really bad idea, but can you point to cultural reasons within the police that link that to decisions that are made during civil emergencies?
I think it's likely that all agencies now have more formal risk assessment processes, in part driven by legislation. Are we sure the decision to delay recovery of the bodies is on the police alone? What is CD's role in this?
If local people are willing to run the low risk they’ll be on the island when it erupts again in order to recover bodies, who is to say they shouldn’t be allowed to?
When do you think the tourists should be allowed back? I think the central point here is that we don't know what the risk is. When you say low risk, what are you basing that on? The risk was considered low on the day the volcano blew.
The only private person I've seen saying he wants to go back is the pilot RNZ interviewed. It's a great interview, but I don't think he is saying that it's safe. He's saying that he thinks a 20 minute window would be enough in an unknown safety situation. I'm not sure that 20 minutes would be enough to properly recover the bodies, but I'd be interested if there's been expert opinion expressed on that.
I'm mindful that on the day of the explosion there were all sorts of people on twitter demanding to know why no-one was going back to look for survivors. As it turns out, the first responders twice checked for survivors and made the decision on the ground that there weren't any other than those they were evacuating. The public didn't get told until midnight that the believe was there were no survivors, and even then there wasn't really an explanation about that. But I think it's safe to say the police and CD had their hands full.
In other words, police, CD and geonet/GNS will all have access to information that you and I don't have.
Not sure. I wondered if Nash was talking about how police were communicating with family of victims.
I assume all the services will review practice, but I'm not sure updating the public on the first evening would have been a priority. Not sure if the first responder pilots also then flew people to hospitals. Might have been a while before police were able to do interviews formal enough to release information to the public. I'm guessing there was a fair amount of chaos given the numbers of agencies and public involved.
If local people are willing to run the low risk they’ll be on the island when it erupts again in order to recover bodies, who is to say they shouldn’t be allowed to?
Anybody whose duty it would be to rescue them – a duty they can't opt out of. By all means, change the current law and professional standards if that's desired.
And most of us will defer to actual volcano and rescue experts about whether the risk is 'low' thanks.
Risk is a combination of likelihood (being on the island at the wrong time) and impact (effects of an eruption). People and organisations will tolerate a higher likelihood if the impact is low.
A nearby volcanic eruption does not match that calculation. Boiling acid, superhot magma, projectiles and ash flows that nobody can outrun are not things you'd bet against unless you are reckless or stupid. Certainly not something you would bet someone else's life on unless you do not value it much.
Finally , journalists from diverse backgrounds rally to defend Assange in an open letter signed by hundreds
"The journalists write: “We hold the governments of the United States of America, the United Kingdom, Ecuador and Sweden accountable for the human rights violations to which Mr Assange has been subjected.”
They cite a powerful comment from Melzer, who wrote earlier this year: “It finally dawned on me that I had been blinded by propaganda, and that Assange had been systematically slandered to divert attention from the crimes he exposed.” The UN official pointed to the role of the corporate press in demonising Assange and repeating the smears against him concocted by the intelligence agencies."
Julian Assange will be released from prison and offered all the psychological assistance he requires after Jeremy Corbyn becomes the PM of the UK in a few days from now.
It'll be interesting to see the take of various pop media outlets that have in turn courted him and buried him. Same for the gangs of hand wringing, nose led liberals who couldn't help shove him down a hole fast enough after initially hailing him as a hero.
Julian Assange will be released from prison and offered all the psychological assistance he requires after Jeremy Corbyn becomes the PM of the UK in a few days from now.
I'm guessing that this will age poorly and Bills political judgement will be shown to be incredibly misplaced.
"“A Labour victory would represent a sharp break with neoliberalism, the failed economic orthodoxy of the past four decades, which makes an idol of the “market” and re-distributes wealth and power ever-upward "
I have been looking at the Irish Potato Famine story and parts of the furore over Ireland in the English parliament are reminiscent of Brexit and the slackness of government where firm resolve to do the sensible as well as the right thing has not prevailed.
Think how the Irish were treated by the UK. There was heavy oppression (austerity) on the population by Brit landlords who ground the Irish tenants down, and took all the profits from their large landholdings away from investing it and growing Irish business, back to Britain.
Landlords in Ireland often used their powers without compunction, and tenants lived in dread of them. Woodham-Smith writes that, in these circumstances, "industry and enterprise were extinguished and a peasantry created which was one of the most destitute in Europe.
There were numerous times of hardship but the potato blight arrived in Europe about 1844 and from 1845 to 1851 hit the Irish hard. This from the Wikipedia Famine link below reminds me of the UK hoo-ha over recent years from hardship caused by Margaret Thatcher and the adoption of a dose of austerity medicine to the UK public to Brexit, an attack of hubris on the supposedly seasoned heads in UK government.
In October 1845, Peel moved to repeal the Corn Laws—tariffs on grain which kept the price of bread artificially high—but the issue split his party and he had insufficient support from his own colleagues to push the measure through.
He resigned the premiership in December, but the opposition was unable to form a government and he was re-appointed. In March, Peel set up a programme of public works in Ireland but the famine situation worsened during 1846, and the repeal of the Corn Laws in that year did little to help the starving Irish; the measure split the Conservative Party, leading to the fall of Peel's ministry.
On 25 June, the second reading of the government's Irish Coercion Bill was defeated by 73 votes in the House of Commons by a combination of Whigs, Radicals, Irish Repealers, and protectionist Conservatives. Peel was forced to resign as prime minister on 29 June, and the Whig leader, Lord John Russell, assumed the seals of office.
Good point! I was actually more just musing as to if the Labour party had had a different leader for say the last six months would they have more chance?
Almost certainly. But who? And how is the best way to choose that leader?
I'm kinda coming to the view that leader selection processes may have swung a bit too far towards systems that give too much emphasis to the fringes of party membership, and not enough weight to the leader's colleagues (who really are in a better position to assess who actually has the skills to be an effective leader).
For examples of the former, see "Cunliffe", "Little", "Corbyn", "Sanders". For the latter, see "Ardern", "Clark". Though "Clinton" and "Shearer" stand as pretty solid arguments against the latter idea.
"The most important conclusion to be drawn from the paranoia into which New Zealand politics has fallen is that its ugly manifestations are driving more and more voters out of their old political pigeon-holes. Those who still see a point in voting are casting their ballots more out of habit than conviction. There may already be an electoral majority in support of a political style that is neither delusional nor irrational.
Chris Trotter advocating for a new political party, in an already crowded field….assuming theres the will what level of support could it expect? or is this NZ First's future when Winston departs?
Colonel Trotter really is struggling to understand today's world through the goggles of his up-the-workers youth. His recent reckons and bedfellows suggest Winston First might be the most comfortable retirement home for him.
That site they set up by copying all whaleoik's files and contact list, defying the official receiver. Called 'bdf' or something? Same cling-ons, same rubbish.
He's writing there. He's got his own author's page describing him as a weekly columnist with links to everything he's contributed. He's posted something every week since 1 April.
Thats not really surprising given his alignment with Jim Anderton's New Labour back in the day…he is , like many i'd suggest, somebody without a natrual political home in todays environment
Yes, my question is more about why he doesn't support the Greens anyway? Where did this political home thing being so exclusionary come from? Lots of people don't have a political home, it's ok to still support parties that are doing good things. The alternative is a fractured left, where too many people think that politics has to be what they want it to be or else (which does appear to be where we are at).
I dont know how old you are but you need to view from the perspective of someone of his generation (im a little younger than him,but not much)….we are all a product of our environment
I’m sure that’s at least partly true. But then that’s the problem isn’t it. He’s smart enough to understand that strategy matters for the greater cause and that one’s gut can undermine that if not used wisely. He makes his political choices just like the rest of us.
He's of a generation that has, and thus wants to keep, so while a social democrat he was against the CGT because people of his generation did not support it.
He likes to pose with the left, but not if it is not popular with his peers, and as you know a lot of oldies voted for Brexit (for the little England of their youth – nostalgia). His is the nostalgia of one no longer of the left, now a cynical realist broken by struggles lost – tired and conceding defeat.
He is like the American Catholic middle class – once Democrats, but now many vote GOP seduced by being white and middle class thus acceptable to their now WASP brethren. Or like Bryce Edwards as long as he is not actually left advocating, he can be a media commentator too as one of their token lefties. Or like Josie Pagani advocating a Labour tax cut strategy to get re-elected, so we remain with inadequate government funding.
it is a problem…possibly insoluble. We might think we are making rational decisions but I suspect we largely only seek out justification for our gut instincts…and why would CT be any different?
one would hope that a seasoned political commentator like Trotter had a better hold of his reason. Changing an election result happens because of many factors, and the influence on that includes political commentary. Which takes me back to finding it odd that he can’t bring himself to support the party with the most left wing policies, assuming those are his actual values. I suspect what SPC is saying is part of it.
think that is a harsh and inaccurate assessment..CT's generation of social dems are by and large unwitting beneficiaries of the asset inflation…indeed many of them are happy to risk their own futures to help their children/grandchildren…there is I fear a deep misunderstanding of the motivations of the older generations
I can cite that the Tory and GOP have older voters on their side – and have seen in the past similar stats here. And one would presume that would be the case. But I canna find anything on google search, not sure why.
But one can cite experienced commentators on the local political scene
Just ask any Gen-Xer or Millennial what sort of person is likely to pick up the phone in their own home and they will hiss “Baby Boomer!” Quite correctly. Which way, do you suppose, a voter sitting on a million dollars-plus of tax-free capital gain is more likely to vote – Left or Right? No wonder, really, that about 45 percent of the Party Vote appears to be welded-on to the National Party!
again, thats an assumption…is worth remembering that a good chunk of those 'boomers' and pre boomers have voted Labour/left all their lives….old habits die hard
SPC – I as a disillusioned Boomer who have always voted Left, would warn you that human nature is what it is, and that your generations and others are very likely to be just as disappointing as we Boomers have shown to be. We all suffer from the same human afflictions. So don't get too haughty, huh?
Good to read you pat having a discussion that doesn't just adopt whatever the conformist view is. I like Chris Trotter because he plays with ideas, looks at what has been done before. Looks at the gap between rhetoric and reality. Sets up strawmen and then takes them down. He exposes himself to ridicule by putting down ideas that others won't consider, but which we need to think about. What Parties say they believe in, what we think of them and their policies, and whether they will be true to their principles, and whether they are practically achievable, it all has to be thought about and sometimes exposed as faulty. It's dirty work but someone has to do it.
Some surprising stuff, such as over 65's preferring National and Labour to NZF – NZF is not as strong there as their reputation suggests.
Yeah, it’s National 1 and Greens 2nd with state house tenants. Must be those who pay the market rent for a good bones old state house (pre leaky homes era) and who also vote.
Thanks for posting the graph from the just been UK election…I had already seen it and it holds some useful data about that event. As you have posted it here I assume you are trying to draw some comparison with this thread and the other (so called) graph you linked.
There is no comparison.
Your earlier link (https://insights.nzherald.co.nz/article/how-new-zealand-votes/) is an overlay of census data on election results by polling booth which has too many variables and assumptions . It then displays those assumptions with an unquantified graph so we have no way of knowing what it is expressing. Finally there are contradictions and unlikely results that should be ringing warning bells and demand verification by alternate method….in other words…it is crap
Well since Metirea and Cunliffe were taken out at the knees. And since the managerial set in Labour have well and truly buried any move to democratise the party. And since the only social democrat on the scene is an old school right winger…yeah, there's an almost empty lane waiting to be claimed by simply promoting a social democratic alternative to NZ's woeful liberalism (think Corbyn/Sanders/SNP etc)
Yeah but…are you suggesting Peters is the only old school Tory in the NZ First ranks? That he suppresses a left leaning social democratic tendency within the party? Not seeing it myself, but hey…
No…Peters is old school no doubt…but hes an old school politician…theres a difference between the voter and the voted for.
Winston is a divisive character (personality) but the party has the potential to have a wider appeal…sans Winston. Its basis is old school social democrat…that is not to say I support it but I see the appeal for a demographic
So apparently (just reading this atm) no polls have factored in people under the age of 39 who registered this year. That's about 4 million people 'blanked'.
That leaves four million, the majority of whom are young. Even while various pollsters are happy to predict that they will break 2:1 Labour (which is actually quite a cautious estimate: if they’re young, they turn out and they vote tactically, the Labour share could be higher), they have so far been unwilling to build these voters into their predictions.
And if you look at footage of Corbyn in public and contrast it to footage of Johnson…it really doesn't gel with the narrative being spun by pop media outlets. Corbyn draws crowds and Johnson draws jeers.
Earlier today (or was it last night?) I ran a wee thought experiment on how pop media would likely slant stuff if Labour was looking good…
Pop media reflects the interests of elites. And the last thing they want is for a Corbyn led government to be offering the British public the option of remaining in Europe but being free from Europe's economic liberal straitjacket (the one that renders any social democratic policy platform unlawful) – or of remaining in Europe with the straitjacket still on.
People will opt for the first of those options. And that option fucks elites up. (Reversal of all those privatisation cash cows etc)
So to prevent a Labour/SNP majority, it's absolutely necessary for elites to discourage the Labour vote and hope for a hung parliament – hence the "foregone conclusion" bullshit that just doesn't accord with what can be seen at those public events/rallies.
Edit – Hmm, it also appears, if I’m reading things correctly (poll data hurts my head btw) that the polls being reported are generally conducted by way of “online panel”…
Thanks Bill – the youth vote will be crucial for a Labour win. I haven't got my head around how well different polls are measuring this.
A lot has been said about the YouGov MRP model (which currently predicts a Tory win), because 'it got it right last time'. But actually a track record of getting one election right once doesn't mean that much. I looked through the methodology – what isn't clear is when their panel of registered voters was selected (and specifically whether it can include the most recent registrations – perhaps it can't)?
So if we dig up, as a species, CHx and burn them. And to mitigate the effects we bury, mineralize in carbonated, or other COx aren't we adding hydrogen and removing oxygen from the biosphere? As the sea oxygen depletes, is it a good idea to depend on co2 sequestration, doesn't it create a new problem? o2 loss.
Shane Jones taken from Parliament in an ambulance. All the best Shane.
I was going to ask you why you would fund tarseal of The Lost Highway seeing the gravel was part of the experience. And why you aren't putting that money into investigating a decent road around Raetihi and Whanganui that won't slip into the river. That is really important, not giving the tourists from the cities a nice smooth road. When they are in the backblocks why not let them get the whole experience?
Granted, Zionism was an attempt to recast Judaism as a race/ethnicity. So on that front, the Netanyahu's of the world will be well pleased. But…well, what's to prevent an executive order designating Catholicism as a nationality? And why would that be any less absurd?
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Bryce Edwards writes – “Follow the money” is the classic directive to journalists trying to understand where power and influence lie in society. In terms of uncovering who influences various New Zealand political parties and governments, it therefore pays to look at who is funding them. The ...
Alwyn Poole writes – After being elected to Parliament in 2008 the maiden speech of Hipkins was substantially around education policy. He was Labour’s spokesperson for education 2011 – 2017. He was Minister for Education from 2017 until February 2023. This is approximately 88% of the time Labour ...
Eric Crampton writes – A fashion industry group is lobbying for protections. They make the usual arguments and a newer one. None of it makes sense. An industry group says it pumped $7.8 billion into the economy last year – that’s 1.9 percent of New Zealand’s GDP. ...
In December 2006, Fiji's military leader Voreqe Bainimarama overthrew the elected government in a coup. He ruled Fiji for the next 16 years, first as dictator, then as "elected" Prime Minister. But now, he's finally been sent to jail where he belongs. Sadly, this isn't for his real crime of ...
Don't like National's corrupt Muldoonist "fast-track" law? Aotearoa's environmental NGO's - Greenpeace, Forest & Bird, WWF, Coromandel Watchdog, Coal Action Network Aotearoa, Kiwis Against Seabed Mining, and others - have announced a joint march against it in Auckland in June: When: 13:00, 8 June, 2024 Where: Aotea Square, Auckland You ...
Seymour describes sushi as too woke for school meals. There are no fish sushi meals recommended by the School Lunches programme. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: The Government will swap out hot meals for packaged sandwiches to save $107 million on school lunches for poor kids. MSD has pulled ...
I don't mind stealin' bread from the mouths of decadenceBut I can't feed on the powerless when my cup's already overfilled, yeahBut it's on the table, the fire's cookin'And they're farmin' babies, while slaves are workin'The blood is on the table and the mouths are chokin'But I'm goin' hungry, yeahSome ...
The Ardern Government’s chickens came home to roost yesterday with the news that the country is short of natural gas. In 2018, Labour banned offshore petroleum exploration, and industry executives say that the attendant loss of confidence by the industry impacted overall investment in onshore gas fields. Energy Resources Minister ...
Hi,If you’ve been digging through the newly launched Webworm store (orders are being dispatched worldwide as I type!) you’ll have noticed the best model we had was Calvin.This is Calvin.Calvin.Calvin is 7, and is the son of my producer over on Flightless Bird, Rob — aka “Wobby Wob”. Rob also ...
This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Adam Levy. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). Climate change is everywhere. And when something's everywhere it can feel like it's nowhere. So how do we get our heads ...
Its a law like gravity: whenever a right-wing government is elected, they start attacking democracy. And now, after talking to their Republican and Tory and Fidesz chums at the International Democracy Union forum in Wellington, National is doing it here, announcing plans to remove election-day enrolment. Or, to put it ...
Yesterday Winston Peters focussed his attention on the important matter at hand. Tweeting. Like the former, and quite possibly next, orange POTUS, from whom he takes much of his political strategy, Winston is an avid X’er.His message didn’t resemble an historic address this time. In fact it was more reminiscent ...
Buzz from the Beehive A significant decline in natural gas production has given Resources Minister Shane Jones an opportunity to reiterate his enthusiasm for the mining and burning of coal. For good measure, he has praised an announcement from Genesis Energy that it will resume importing coal. He and Energy ...
“Follow the money” is the classic directive to journalists trying to understand where power and influence lie in society. In terms of uncovering who influences various New Zealand political parties and governments, it therefore pays to look at who is funding them. The political parties are legally obliged to make ...
Rob MacCullough writes – Here is my subjective ranking on a “most-left” to “most-right” scale of most of our major NZ Universities, with some anecdotal (and at times amusing) evidence to back up the claim.Extreme Left Auckland University of TechnologyEvidenceThe ...
Eric Crampton writes – I hadn’t thought about this one until a helpful email showed up in my inbox.It’s pretty obvious that income tax thresholds should automatically index with inflation – whether to anchor the thresholds in percentiles of the income distribution, or to anchor against a real ...
Jacqui Van Der Kaay writes – Parliament’s speaker had no option but to refer Green MP Julie Anne Genter to the Privileges Committee for her behaviour in the House last Wednesday evening. The incident, in which she crossed the floor to wave a book and yell at National ...
Gary Judd writes – The Dean of the law school at the Auckland University of Technology is someone called Khylee Quince. I have been sent her social media posting in which she has, over the LawNews headline “Senior King’s Counsel files complaint about compulsory tikanga Maori studies for ...
Cleo Paskal writes – WASHINGTON, D.C.: ‘Many of us have received phone calls from [the opposing camp] telling them if they join the camp they will be given projects for their wards and $300,000 [around US$35,000] each’, says former Malaita Premier Daniel Suidani. The elections in Solomon Islands aren’t ...
With hindsight, it was inevitable that (a) Hamas would agree to the ceasefire deal brokered by Egypt and Qatar and that ( b) Israel would then immediately launch attacks on Rafah, regardless. We might have hoped the concessions made by Hamas would cause Israel to desist from slaughtering thousands more ...
Placards and mourners outside the Kilbirnie Mosque following the Christchurch terror attack: MSD has terminated the Kaiwhakaoranga service, which has been used by 415 families since the attacks. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: The Government’s pledge to only cut ‘back office’ staff rather than ‘frontline’ services is on increasingly shaky ground, with ...
There’s been a few smaller public transport announcements over the last week or so that I thought I’d cover in a single post. Fareshare I’ve long called for Auckland Transport to offer a way to enable employer-subsidised public transport options. The need for this took on even more importance ...
Parliament’s speaker had no option but to refer Green MP Julie Anne Genter to the Privileges Committee for her behaviour in the House last Wednesday evening. The incident, in which she crossed the floor to wave a book and yell at National Minister Matt Doocey, reflects poorly on Genter and ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Who likes being sneered at? Nobody. Worse yet, when the sneerer has their facts all wrong, and might well be an idiot.The sneer in question is The adults are in charge now, and it is a sneer offered in retort to criticism of this new Government, no matter how well ...
When in government, Labour pushed to extend the Parliamentary term to four years, to reduce accountability and our ability to vote out a bad government. And now, they're trying to do it through the member's ballot, with a Four-Year Parliamentary Term Legislation Bill. The bill at least requires a referendum ...
A ballot for a single Member's Bill was held today, and the following bill was drawn: Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill (Hūhana Lyndon) The bill would prevent the government from stealing Māori land in breach of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. It ...
Simeon Brown, alongside Wayne Brown, is favouring a political figleaf now in exchange for loading up tens of millions in extra interest costs on Auckland ratepayers. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Ratings agency Standard & Poor’s is pushing back hard at suggestions from Local Government Minister Simeon Brown and Mayor Wayne Brown ...
Buzz from the Beehive One headline-grabber from the Beehive yesterday was the OECD’s advice that the government must bring the Budget deficit under control or face higher interest rates. Another was the announcement of a $1.9 billion “investment” in Corrections over the next four years. In the best interests of ...
Chris Trotter writes – Had Zheng He’s fleet sailed east, not west, in the early Fifteenth Century, how different our world would be. There is little reason to suppose that the sea-going junks of the Ming Dynasty, among the largest and most sophisticated sailing vessels ever constructed, would have failed ...
David Farrar writes – Two articles give a useful contrast in balance. Both seek to be neutral explainer articles. This one in the Herald on Social Investment covers the pros and cons nicely. It links to critical pieces and talks about aspects that failed and aspects that are more ...
The tikanga regulations will compel law students to be taught that a system which does not conform with the rule of law is nevertheless law which should be observed and applied…Gary Judd KC writes – I have made a complaint to Parliament’s Regulation ...
The future of Te Huia, the train between Hamilton and Auckland, has been getting a lot of attention recently as current funding for it is only in place till the end of June. The government initially agreed to a five year trial, through to April 2026, but that was subject ...
TL;DR: Hamas has just agreed to Israel’s ceasefire plan. Nelson hospital’s rebuild has been cut back to save money. The OECD suggests New Zealand break up network monopolies, including in electricity. PM Christopher Luxon’s news conference on a prison expansion announcement last night was his messiest yet.Here’s my top six ...
A homicide in Ponsonby, a manhunt with a killer on the run. The nation’s leader stands before a press conference reassuring a frightened nation that he’ll sort it out, he’ll keep them safe, he’ll build some new prison spaces.Sorry what? There’s a scary dude on the run with a gun ...
Hi,I know it’s been awhile since there’s been any Webworm merch — and today that all changes!Over the last four months, I’ve been working with New Zealand artist Jess Johnson to create a series of t-shirts, caps and stickers that are infused with Webworm DNA — and as of right ...
The OECD’s chief economist yesterday laid it on the line for the new Government: bring the deficit under control or face higher Reserve Bank interest rates for longer. And to bring the deficit under control, she meant not borrowing for tax cuts. But there was more. Without policy changes—introducing a ...
After a hiatus of over four months Selwyn Manning and I finally got it together to re-start the “A View from Afar” podcast series. We shall see how we go but aim to do 2 episodes per month if possible. … Continue reading → ...
In 2008, the UK Parliament passed the Climate Change Act 2008. The law established a system of targets, budgets, and plans, with inbuilt accountability mechanisms; the aim was to break the cycle of empty promises and replace it with actual progress towards emissions reduction. The law was passed with near-universal ...
Buzz from the Beehive Local Water Done Well – let’s be blunt – is a silly name, but the first big initiative to put it into practice has gone done well. This success is reflected in the headline on an RNZ report:District mayors welcome Auckland’s new water deal with ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate ConnectionsA farmworker cleans the solar panels of a solar water pump in the village of Jagadhri, Haryana Country, India. (Photo credit: Prashanth Vishwanathan/ IWMI) Decisions made in India over the next few years will play a key role in global ...
Lindsay Mitchell writes – The Children’s Minister, Karen Chhour, intends to repeal Section 7AA from the Oranga Tamariki Act 1989 because it creates conflict between claimed Crown Treaty obligations and the child’s best interests. In her words, “Oranga Tamariki’s governing principles and its act should be colour ...
Geoffrey Miller writes – The gloves are off. That might seem to be the undertone of surprisingly tough talk from New Zealand’s foreign and trade ministers. Winston Peters, the foreign minister, may be facing legal action after making allegations about former Australian foreign minister Bob Carr on Radio New Zealand. ...
Brian Easton writes – This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be (I will report on them ...
TL;DR:Winston Peters is reported to have won a budget increase for MFAT. David Seymour wanted his Ministry of Regulation to be three times bigger than the Productivity Commission. Simeon Brown is appointing a Crown Monitor to Watercare to protect the Claytons Crown Guarantee he had to give ratings agencies ...
The gloves are off. That might seem to be the undertone of surprisingly tough talk from New Zealand’s foreign and trade ministers. Winston Peters, the foreign minister, may be facing legal action after making allegations about former Australian foreign minister Bob Carr on Radio New Zealand. Carr had made highly ...
I could be a florist'Round the corner from Rye LaneI'll be giving daisies to craziesBut, baby, I'll wrap you up real safe Oh, I can give you flowers At the end of every dayFor the center of your table, a rainbowIn case you have people 'round to stay Depending on ...
TL;DR: The six key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to May 12 include:PM Christopher Luxon is scheduled to hold a post-Cabinet news conference at 4 pm today. Finance Minister Nicola Willis will give a pre-budget speech on Thursday.Parliament sits from Question Time at 2pm on ...
The price of the foreign affairs “reset” is now becoming apparent, with Defence set to get a funding boost in the Budget. Finance Minister Nicola Willis has confirmed that it will be one of the few votes, apart from Health and Education and possibly Police, which will get an increase ...
A listing of 26 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 28, 2024 thru Sat, May 4, 2024. Story of the week "It’s straight out of Big Tobacco’s playbook. In fact, research by John Cook and his colleagues ...
Yesterday I received come lovely feedback following my Star Wars themed newsletter. A few people mentioned they’d enjoyed reading the personal part at the beginning.I often begin newsletters with some memories, or general thoughts, before commencing the main topic. This hopefully sets the mood and provides some context in which ...
April 30 was going to be the day we’d be calling Mum from London to wish her a happy birthday. Then it became the day we would be going to St. Paul's at Evensong to remember her. The aim of the cathedral builders was to find a way to make their ...
Today New Zealand First will introduce a Member’s Bill that will protect women’s spaces. The ‘Fair Access to Bathrooms Bill’ will require, primarily in the interest and safety of women and girls, that all new non-domestic publicly accessible buildings provide separate, clearly demarcated, unisex and single sex bathrooms. This Bill ...
The Green Party is welcoming Climate Change Minister Simon Watts’ continuation of Hon. James Shaw’s cross-party work on climate adaptation, now in the form of a Finance and Expenditure Committee Inquiry. ...
The National Government plans to cut 390 jobs at ACC, including roles in the areas of prevention of sexual violence, road safety and workplace safety. ...
The Government has been caught in opposition to evidence once again as it looks to usher in tried, tested and failed work seminar obligations for job-seeking beneficiaries. ...
The Green Party is welcoming the announcement by the Minister Responsible for RMA Reform Chris Bishop to approve most of the Wellington City Council’s District Plan recommendations. ...
David Seymour has failed to get the sweeping cuts he wanted to the free and healthy school lunch programme, Labour education spokesperson Jan Tinetti said. ...
Hon Willie Jackson has been invited by the Oxford Union to debate the motion “This House Believes British Museums are not Very British’ on May 23rd. ...
Green Party MP Hūhana Lyndon says her Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill is an opportunity to right some past wrongs around the alienation of Māori land. ...
A senior, highly respected King’s Counsel with decades of experience in our law courts, Gary Judd KC, has filed a complaint about compulsory tikanga Māori studies for law students - highlighting the utter depths of absurdity this woke cultural madness has taken our society. The tikanga regulations will compel law ...
The Government needs to be clear with the people of the Nelson Marlborough region about the changes it is considering for the Nelson Hospital rebuild, Labour health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall said. ...
Ministers must front up about which projects it will push through under its Fast Track Approvals legislation, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
New Zealand voted in favour of a resolution broadening Palestine’s participation at the United Nations General Assembly overnight, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The resolution enhances the rights of Palestine to participate in the work of the UN General Assembly while stopping short of admitting Palestine as a full ...
Introduction Good morning. It’s a great privilege to be here at the 2024 Infrastructure Symposium. I was extremely happy when the Prime Minister asked me to be his Minister for Infrastructure. It is one of the great barriers holding the New Zealand economy back from achieving its potential. Building high ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins today announced the upcoming Budget will include new funding of $571 million for Defence Force pay and projects. “Our servicemen and women do New Zealand proud throughout the world and this funding will help ensure we retain their services and expertise as we navigate an increasingly ...
New Zealand’s ability to cope with climate change will be strengthened as part of the Government’s focus to build resilience as we rebuild the economy, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “An enduring and long-term approach is needed to provide New Zealanders and the economy with certainty as the climate ...
Jobseeker beneficiaries who have work obligations must now meet with MSD within two weeks of their benefit starting to determine their next step towards finding a job, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “A key part of the coalition Government’s plan to have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker ...
A new standalone Social Investment Agency will power-up the social investment approach, driving positive change for our most vulnerable New Zealanders, Social Investment Minister Nicola Willis says. “Despite the Government currently investing more than $70 billion every year into social services, we are not seeing the outcomes we want for ...
Check against delivery Good morning. It is a pleasure to be with you to outline the Coalition Government’s approach to our first Budget. Thank you Mark Skelly, President of the Hutt Valley Chamber of Commerce, together with your Board and team, for hosting me. I’d like to acknowledge His Worship ...
Your Excellency Ambassador Meredith, Members of the Diplomatic Corps and Ambassadors from European Union Member States, Ministerial colleagues, Members of Parliament, and other distinguished guests, Thank you everyone for joining us. Ladies and gentlemen - In diplomacy, we often speak of ‘close’ and ‘long-standing’ relations. ...
The Therapeutic Products Act (TPA) will be repealed this year so that a better regime can be put in place to provide New Zealanders safe and timely access to medicines, medical devices and health products, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello announced today. “The medicines and products we are talking about ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop, today released his decision on twenty recommendations referred to him by the Wellington City Council relating to its Intensification Planning Instrument, after the Council rejected those recommendations of the Independent Hearings Panel and made alternative recommendations. “Wellington notified its District Plan on ...
Rape Awareness Week (6-10 May) is an important opportunity to acknowledge the continued effort required by government and communities to ensure that all New Zealanders can live free from violence, say Ministers Karen Chhour and Louise Upston. “With 1 in 3 women and 1 in 8 men experiencing sexual violence ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government will be delivering a more efficient Healthy School Lunches Programme, saving taxpayers approximately $107 million a year compared to how Labour funded it, by embracing innovation and commercial expertise. “We are delivering on our commitment to treat taxpayers’ money ...
New research on the impacts of extreme weather on coastal marine habitats in Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s Bay will help fishery managers plan for and respond to any future events, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. A report released today on research by Niwa on behalf of Fisheries New Zealand ...
Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will lead a broad political delegation on a five-stop Pacific tour next week to strengthen New Zealand’s engagement with the region. The delegation will visit Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, and Tuvalu. “New Zealand has deep and ...
There has been a material decline in gas production according to figures released today by the Gas Industry Co. Figures released by the Gas Industry Company show that there was a 12.5 per cent reduction in gas production during 2023, and a 27.8 per cent reduction in gas production in the ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins tonight announced the recipients of the Minister of Defence Awards of Excellence for Industry, saying they all contribute to New Zealanders’ security and wellbeing. “Congratulations to this year’s recipients, whose innovative products and services play a critical role in the delivery of New Zealand’s defence capabilities, ...
Welcome to you all - it is a pleasure to be here this evening.I would like to start by thanking Greg Lowe, Chair of the New Zealand Defence Industry Advisory Council, for co-hosting this reception with me. This evening is about recognising businesses from across New Zealand and overseas who in ...
It is a pleasure to be speaking to you as the Minister for Digitising Government. I would like to thank Akolade for the invitation to address this Summit, and to acknowledge the great effort you are making to grow New Zealand’s digital future. Today, we stand at the cusp of ...
New Zealand is urging both Israel and Hamas to agree to an immediate ceasefire to avoid the further humanitarian catastrophe that military action in Rafah would unleash, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The immense suffering in Gaza cannot be allowed to worsen further. Both sides have a responsibility to ...
A new online data dashboard released today as part of the Government’s school attendance action plan makes more timely daily attendance data available to the public and parents, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. The interactive dashboard will be updated once a week to show a national average of how ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced Rosemary Banks will be New Zealand’s next Ambassador to the United States of America. “Our relationship with the United States is crucial for New Zealand in strategic, security and economic terms,” Mr Peters says. “New Zealand and the United States have a ...
The Government is considering creating a new tier of minerals permitting that will make it easier for hobby miners to prospect for gold. “New Zealand was built on gold, it’s in our DNA. Our gold deposits, particularly in regions such as Otago and the West Coast have always attracted fortune-hunters. ...
Minister for Trade Todd McClay today announced that New Zealand and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) will commence negotiations on a free trade agreement (FTA). Minister McClay met with his counterpart UAE Trade Minister Dr Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi in Dubai, where they announced the launch of negotiations on a ...
New Zealand Sign Language Week is an excellent opportunity for all Kiwis to give the language a go, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. This week (May 6 to 12) is New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL) Week. The theme is “an Aotearoa where anyone can sign anywhere” and aims to ...
Six tertiary students have been selected to work on NASA projects in the US through a New Zealand Space Scholarship, Space Minister Judith Collins announced today. “This is a fantastic opportunity for these talented students. They will undertake internships at NASA’s Ames Research Center or its Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), where ...
New Zealanders will be safer because of a $1.9 billion investment in more frontline Corrections officers, more support for offenders to turn away from crime, and more prison capacity, Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell says. “Our Government said we would crack down on crime. We promised to restore law and order, ...
The OECD’s latest report on New Zealand reinforces the importance of bringing Government spending under control, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The OECD conducts country surveys every two years to review its members’ economic policies. The 2024 New Zealand survey was presented in Wellington today by OECD Chief Economist Clare Lombardelli. ...
The Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
“Instead of following along countries that are investing in death and better ways of killing people faster, we need to invest in life and in making Aotearoa a fair, just and equitable place where everyone has what they need for a dignified life.” ...
MARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI, TPM MP FOR TAI TOKERAU This Government will not waver in its mission to exterminate Māori. CHRISTOPHER LUXON Oh well look you know I don’t think that hard-working Kiwis want to hear language like that. It’s just really unhelpful rhetoric. My Government is genuinely committed to advancing outcomes ...
The body positivity movement started with women confronting the unrealistic expectations and unrepresentative portrayals of them in media and advertising. Men weren’t part of it … their bodies hadn’t been sexualised to the same extremes and they didn’t really need it. But now that’s changed. And in a warped sort ...
The New Zealand comedy legend takes us through her life in television, including the time she hugged Elton John and the unshakeable legacy of a girl named Lyn. In 1981, Ginette McDonald stood on the stage of Auckland’s St James Theatre and directly addressed Queen Elizabeth II. It was a ...
An essay by Lily Duval from the just-released anthology Otherhood: Essays on being childless, childfree and child adjacent.I was 22 when my friend Alice gave birth in the living room of our pokey Addington flat. She laboured in the blow-up pool for hours. Garish fish swam along the inflated ...
Ella Borrie on the best books about motherhood she’s come across so far. Over the past few years I’ve been drawn to books about motherhood. I’m fascinated by the joys and horrors of becoming a parent. The question of children also feels more pressing than it used to. It’s like ...
Out of gift ideas for mum? You can’t go wrong with a bottle of toilet cleaner and a new squeegee. Emily Writes is the writer and editor of Emily Writes Weekly. This week marks five years since I published a post on The Spinoff about Mother’s Day marketing titled ‘A ...
My husband is posted overseas for 12 months and I’m armed with an expensive, newfangled vibrator. Will I miss him? The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.A few days after my husband leaves, a new sex toy arrives at the front door. Nestled ...
Jaimie Baird’s new book Here Today Gone Tomorrow is a record of four decades of graffiti and street art in Wellington, told through more than 1,200 photographs. He spoke with Joel MacManus about what inspired the book. How did you first get interested in photographing street art? I remember ...
Editor Madeleine Chapman looks back at a busy week where food of all political leanings dominated. Sometimes you’re just going about your week thinking you’ve got a good handle on what might be coming as far as news topics and then someone (usually a politician) says something so ridiculous that ...
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2010 – Pike River – a catastrophe caused by slack, light handed regulation, allowing the operator to call the shots on safety and letting commercial pressures drive decision making.
2019 – White Island – a catastrophe caused by slack, light handed regulation, allowing the operator to call the shots on safety and letting commercial pressures drive decision making.
2028 – /insert next tragedy here/ a catastrophe caused by slack, light handed regulation, allowing the operator to call the shots on safety and letting commercial pressures drive decision making.
Rinse and repeat ad nauseam.
Yes Pike River.
We don't know about White Island yet.
Oh and my advise to the people of Whakatane?
Don't let the gutless bastards who run the police these days stop you going to recover bodies from the island. It is your island, your decision. Tell the cops you'll do as you please, get in your machines, and go get those people if that is what you feel is the right thing to do.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018726369/whakaari-white-island-doctor-on-what-he-found
Sanctuary, the police announcements do have an echo of them talking about safety for their officers after the Pike River explosion. But then other people with experience have viewed the terrain and can speak about the conditions prevailing and from their reports we know that they must be dead because of the cyanide effect on the body from the gases and the burns from steam.
Do you think that police should not be the ones in charge after non-criminal events like this, this sort of natural tragedy? Would it be better to expand the Civil Defence units, and leave the police to concentrate on their own affairs? It seems to me that they have become too widely spread. Also more personally protective beyond what would be expected, and at the same time more of their work is being done by the Fire Service. And we don't want them hurt in carrying out their jobs either, but they seem to try to be careful but also tackle their essential task without reluctance.
Then there is the control for safety issue of the island. Though it is right by Whakatane, it is overseen by the Internal Affairs Department because off-shore islands fall into their bag. Yet it is Whakatane that people will come to when there is a disaster like this, and some of their own people are involved. So who keeps an overview should be looked at and it seems Whakatane should be the body for overseeing White Island as first call.
Then there is the situation of the island being privately owned. I would have thought it would be in public ownership, something like a National Park.
Then there is the attitude about tourism with risk. One woman said that NZ sells itself as an adventure tourism destination and it seemed she was saying, deaths and injuries happen. A bit casual, she'll be right is the way she sounded to me. The trouble with a tourism business, is that they have bookings and want to keep the business going and will underestimate risk. It has been registered as 2 on the risk scale for a while but they have not closed down as a preventative measure, and only they can decide. Hey that is not very responsible that NZ Inc as a tourism destination comes across as casual. We have been severely criticised in the past by a parent of a dead tourist. Just forgotten the details.
Kathryn Ryan made the point that it was a different sort of event to say a Ruapehu eruption. This one was close and personal, people couldn't run fast and get away. The combination of super-heated steam and sulphurous gases were deadly and would burn skin and airways. Nasty.
Also though it was mentioned in the same breath as adventure tourism, it was being used as an attraction for a cruise ship, presumably an interesting walk on an island that is an active volcanic site for cruisers who are not usually your mountaineers, and adventurers, but just lookers with money wanting a quick sample of the local features. They would be advised what clothing to wear etc. but I wonder if they were told that it was up to Category 2 on the action scale, and was showing signs of greater activity and thus greater risk.
If I was a passenger, I would be looking at a class action against the tour operators. So button down Buttles? The government should wait a while and then offer them a low price for it which will help them pay their legal bills. That is if there is a government in the Beehive and not just a lot of buzzing drones flying around in unproductive circles.
There is something I am not sure about also. I would like NZ Inc to be not making a loss after having to provide rescue efforts and hospital care, (I see the news says that the burns unit is full). Are these treated as externalities by tourism companies? Is there a reliance on ACC? If there is, the public should be aware that what ACC provides is not the complete recovery assistance which someone who could sue would ask for.
There definitely needs to be a public liability insurance or whatever to cover any costs incurred by tourism agencies, otherwise profits from tourism bringing benefits to the country are largely illusory. Has Treasury done a paper on this? You conservatives who love to quote the official line and figures – do you know if the costs of tourist mishaps are counted, calculated and recovered, or better pre-paid as extra charges through some insurance scheme.
Everyone of the survivors are already a million dollar plus cost. We are giving the everything we've got, unstintingly, because we are good people who take care of our guests.
But also need to work out if we failed a duty of care.
That's pretty silly advice as going there at the moment would be very dangerous without the correct equipment. Maybe you should listen to the audio provided below by Pat as they were finding it difficult to breathe etc. as soon as they arrived and that was through the breathing equipment.
White Island is owned by an Auckland family. https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/118071975/whakaariwhite-island-owner-the-buttle-family-declines-to-comment-after-deadly-eruption
Dec 2019
Another tragedy?
People of Whakatane on quixotic quest to recover bodies suffer asphyxiation
yet another example of lax standards and unqualified people calling the shots?..
Yeah, nah
https://twitter.com/supergenericgal/status/1204506987951620096
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/405238/live-whakaari-white-island-eruption-day-3
two questions.
1. what is the rush? Given the risk, what is the point of going today instead of waiting? Pike River was different because recovery people weren't allowed in for a very long time, and it's likely that this was in part to prevent investigation of what happened. I'm not seeing that motivation or dynamic here.
2. what should the response be of the various authorities if people go and get into trouble and need rescuing?
Pike River was different because the mines rescue experts believed it was safe to go in right after the initial explosion and the Police stopped them.
None of the expert first responders in this situation are saying that the island is safe enough. Just some armchair warriors.
thanks, I'd missed that nuance.
Conflation is a common tactic of the righties who have been beating their puny chests about this.
Apart from the first responders who already rescued 12 people in helicopters, and presumably have years of first hand experience with the island.
which are saying it is safe?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118103101/whakaariwhite-island-helicopter-pilot-said-conditions-perfect-to-recover-bodies
There have been flyovers today but the geologists note continuing ground tremors and risk of further activity – thus the work and safety side prevents action.
Just not as high as that faced by those getting the burnt off the island, so little wonder a person who was involved then is prepared to get the bodies off as well.
It would seem that your advise is worth about as much as it is accurate.
It’s not their island – it’s privately owned.
it’s not their decision either.
to suggest people do as thy please if they feel it’s right – with a possibility of risk to their safety is absolutely moronic.
Yet if people had not done so it would have been worse on Monday.
Calling someone moronic must be a no-no especially when they are upset about people dying and being injured! It is a case for helping thinking things through and being a bit understanding. Without being judgmental or sour.
It's a messy one, a pilot reckoned the day to get the bodies was yesterday (wind cleared away the ash fumes etc and before today's tremors) – but police drones could not fly till today. And apparently they need to survey the scene of the corpse layout for a coronal inquiry (safest by drone to minimise time on the ground etc) before removing bodies etc.
I called what he was suggesting moronic- and it is. I didn’t call him / her moronic.
I’ll add selfish, poorly thoughtout, stupid and dangerous.
People take personal risks all the time. And there are those advocating banning bullrush as part of their school safety programme. There are those exercising their choices and those who would prevent them, is either moronic or both?
what's the rationale for banning bullrush?
From the mid-1980s some schools decided to ban bullrush because they were concerned they would be held liable when children were hurt.
https://www.google.com/search?q=banning+bullrush&oq=banning+bullrush&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
the biggest complaints were damage to school uniforms…and the cost of replacement
lol, I didn't know that.
Liability is a different issue again. Hadn't thought about that in terms of Whakaari and the police.
It's more workplace safety than liability. There will be an assessment of the tour operators on that side, apart from the coronal inquiry, the police cannot very well breach of that themselves.
However it seems the biggest risks of safe work practice (other staff coming in after they heard of the eruption) were taken by those rescuing people, if they had not done this, more lives would have been lost.
on the basis of what I’ve read/seen so far, I have zero problem with the actions of people in the first hour after the explosion (chopper pilots, boat operators, first aiders).
What Sanctuary was suggesting is something quite different.
it’s interesting to consider that the boat operators probably made the decision to go back without talking to the passengers.
"Yet if people had not done so it would have been worse on Monday."
True. But, that was to save lives, and either needed to happen immediately or not at all, so the justification is for different reasons. It's also valid for people to take action in the moment even if it puts themselves at risk (bearing in mind that the pilots have expertise in assessing risk as well as making judgement calls about that and the value of their own lives). That is different from planning to do something that is dangerous in order to achieve something that can be done at a later date.
What bothers me is:
1/ If the police had of been on in charge earlier, or the chopper pilots not acted so quickly, then the survivors of the blast rescued by the helicopters would most likely have been left to die of their injuries on the island while the cops dithered for "health and safety" reasons.
2/ The rationale behind police decision making these days seems to be a creeping US style thinking that their lives are more valuable than those of the public. Car loads of heavily armed cops cruising South Auckland in black SUVs for vague reasons also seems to just come back to the police adopting a hyper-cautious approach to risking police lives, even if it means others are needlessly killed.
Sometimes people in emergency and rescue services have to take risks. More importantly, sometimes they are willing to risk their lives to rescue people. That is why when they do we call them heroes.
It is sometimes important to empower people to respond to a local disaster with what they consider to be appropriate steps. Imposing a top down, bureaucratic and technocratic solution based on a rigid adherence to rules can sometimes not be the best outcome. If local people are willing to run the low risk they’ll be on the island when it erupts again in order to recover bodies, who is to say they shouldn’t be allowed to?
They are not stupid. They know what they would be going into.
If the police had of been on in charge earlier, or the chopper pilots not acted so quickly, then the survivors of the blast rescued by the helicopters would most likely have been left to die of their injuries on the island while the cops dithered for "health and safety" reasons
I call bullshit on this.
The police have very difficult jobs to do, especially in major situations like this. They don't always do things well, but they often do, putting themselves at risk on a daily basis.
Cheap shots like this are shitty.
Your love of authority doing nothing while hiding behind sophistry is well known Pete, so your reply doesn't surprise me.
We all know it would have played out. After a few weeks, the bodies are recovered and the police declare they most likely all died of unsurvivable injuries during the blast. And Pete George would go, “Thank goodness our police who I trust uncritically have reassured me they didn’t fuck it up and leave people to die, how right they were!”
Good morning. Having a go at each other is not helpful and it bores the shit out of others.
I don't know about that, taking down Pete George is fun game the whole family can play IMHO.
"Your love of authority doing nothing while hiding behind sophistry is well known Pete"
I call bullshit on that too. You're making it up, no evidence, it's false.
"“Thank goodness our police who I trust uncritically have reassured me they didn’t fuck it up and leave people to die, how right they were!”
And on that. That's just pathetic.
The police have an essential role to play in a civil society (perhaps that doesn't apply here), they're not perfect but they're far better than the alternative.
Sanctuary,
What are you basing that on? My sense is that people first at the scene will make their own decisions and that it's generally accepted in NZ that people can choose to risk their own lives in such a situation. Had the first helicopter passing by when Whakaari blew been a police helicopter I would expect them to have done pretty much what the private chopper pilots did. Maybe I am wrong about that, but I'd like to see what you are basing your opinion on.
I'm not seeing the connection. There's a difference between police killing others in an active criminal situation vs saving people's lives in an SAR or first response to emergency situation. Arming cops on the street is a really bad idea, but can you point to cultural reasons within the police that link that to decisions that are made during civil emergencies?
I think it's likely that all agencies now have more formal risk assessment processes, in part driven by legislation. Are we sure the decision to delay recovery of the bodies is on the police alone? What is CD's role in this?
When do you think the tourists should be allowed back? I think the central point here is that we don't know what the risk is. When you say low risk, what are you basing that on? The risk was considered low on the day the volcano blew.
The only private person I've seen saying he wants to go back is the pilot RNZ interviewed. It's a great interview, but I don't think he is saying that it's safe. He's saying that he thinks a 20 minute window would be enough in an unknown safety situation. I'm not sure that 20 minutes would be enough to properly recover the bodies, but I'd be interested if there's been expert opinion expressed on that.
I'm mindful that on the day of the explosion there were all sorts of people on twitter demanding to know why no-one was going back to look for survivors. As it turns out, the first responders twice checked for survivors and made the decision on the ground that there weren't any other than those they were evacuating. The public didn't get told until midnight that the believe was there were no survivors, and even then there wasn't really an explanation about that. But I think it's safe to say the police and CD had their hands full.
In other words, police, CD and geonet/GNS will all have access to information that you and I don't have.
An example of the inadequate official communication that the Police Minister was talking about yesterday?
Not sure. I wondered if Nash was talking about how police were communicating with family of victims.
I assume all the services will review practice, but I'm not sure updating the public on the first evening would have been a priority. Not sure if the first responder pilots also then flew people to hospitals. Might have been a while before police were able to do interviews formal enough to release information to the public. I'm guessing there was a fair amount of chaos given the numbers of agencies and public involved.
Anybody whose duty it would be to rescue them – a duty they can't opt out of. By all means, change the current law and professional standards if that's desired.
And most of us will defer to actual volcano and rescue experts about whether the risk is 'low' thanks.
Risk is a combination of likelihood (being on the island at the wrong time) and impact (effects of an eruption). People and organisations will tolerate a higher likelihood if the impact is low.
A nearby volcanic eruption does not match that calculation. Boiling acid, superhot magma, projectiles and ash flows that nobody can outrun are not things you'd bet against unless you are reckless or stupid. Certainly not something you would bet someone else's life on unless you do not value it much.
Finally , journalists from diverse backgrounds rally to defend Assange in an open letter signed by hundreds
"The journalists write: “We hold the governments of the United States of America, the United Kingdom, Ecuador and Sweden accountable for the human rights violations to which Mr Assange has been subjected.”
They cite a powerful comment from Melzer, who wrote earlier this year: “It finally dawned on me that I had been blinded by propaganda, and that Assange had been systematically slandered to divert attention from the crimes he exposed.” The UN official pointed to the role of the corporate press in demonising Assange and repeating the smears against him concocted by the intelligence agencies."
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/12/09/jour-d09.html
Julian Assange will be released from prison and offered all the psychological assistance he requires after Jeremy Corbyn becomes the PM of the UK in a few days from now.
It'll be interesting to see the take of various pop media outlets that have in turn courted him and buried him. Same for the gangs of hand wringing, nose led liberals who couldn't help shove him down a hole fast enough after initially hailing him as a hero.
I'm guessing that this will age poorly and Bills political judgement will be shown to be incredibly misplaced.
Or I might be wrong.
we will know in a few days.
"“A Labour victory would represent a sharp break with neoliberalism, the failed economic orthodoxy of the past four decades, which makes an idol of the “market” and re-distributes wealth and power ever-upward "
https://www.thecanary.co/exclusive/2019/12/10/a-powerful-show-of-solidarity-for-jeremy-corbyn-and-the-labour-party-from-america/
I have been looking at the Irish Potato Famine story and parts of the furore over Ireland in the English parliament are reminiscent of Brexit and the slackness of government where firm resolve to do the sensible as well as the right thing has not prevailed.
Think how the Irish were treated by the UK. There was heavy oppression (austerity) on the population by Brit landlords who ground the Irish tenants down, and took all the profits from their large landholdings away from investing it and growing Irish business, back to Britain.
Landlords in Ireland often used their powers without compunction, and tenants lived in dread of them. Woodham-Smith writes that, in these circumstances, "industry and enterprise were extinguished and a peasantry created which was one of the most destitute in Europe.
And there was export of food from Ireland during the famine which puts a final screw on the horrific tale of misuse of the Irish to the extent they believed that England was planning genocide.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)#Irish_food_exports_during_Famine
There were numerous times of hardship but the potato blight arrived in Europe about 1844 and from 1845 to 1851 hit the Irish hard. This from the Wikipedia Famine link below reminds me of the UK hoo-ha over recent years from hardship caused by Margaret Thatcher and the adoption of a dose of austerity medicine to the UK public to Brexit, an attack of hubris on the supposedly seasoned heads in UK government.
In October 1845, Peel moved to repeal the Corn Laws—tariffs on grain which kept the price of bread artificially high—but the issue split his party and he had insufficient support from his own colleagues to push the measure through.
He resigned the premiership in December, but the opposition was unable to form a government and he was re-appointed. In March, Peel set up a programme of public works in Ireland but the famine situation worsened during 1846, and the repeal of the Corn Laws in that year did little to help the starving Irish; the measure split the Conservative Party, leading to the fall of Peel's ministry.
On 25 June, the second reading of the government's Irish Coercion Bill was defeated by 73 votes in the House of Commons by a combination of Whigs, Radicals, Irish Repealers, and protectionist Conservatives. Peel was forced to resign as prime minister on 29 June, and the Whig leader, Lord John Russell, assumed the seals of office.
Wikipedia link on Ireland's background of long-suffering. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland) There seems a parallel with Brexit's lack of vision.
A Labour victory with Corbyn in charge would fuck the UK for decades
So BAU then.
A well-reasoned argument from Alan, well done.
Would the Labour party have more chance of winning if Jeremy Corbyn was not the leader?
NZ Labour party changed leaders very close to an election in 2017 with spectacular results?
A couple of days before the election might be leaving it a bit late.
Good point! I was actually more just musing as to if the Labour party had had a different leader for say the last six months would they have more chance?
Almost certainly. But who? And how is the best way to choose that leader?
I'm kinda coming to the view that leader selection processes may have swung a bit too far towards systems that give too much emphasis to the fringes of party membership, and not enough weight to the leader's colleagues (who really are in a better position to assess who actually has the skills to be an effective leader).
For examples of the former, see "Cunliffe", "Little", "Corbyn", "Sanders". For the latter, see "Ardern", "Clark". Though "Clinton" and "Shearer" stand as pretty solid arguments against the latter idea.
I believe they absolutely would have.
corbyn is unelectable.
"The most important conclusion to be drawn from the paranoia into which New Zealand politics has fallen is that its ugly manifestations are driving more and more voters out of their old political pigeon-holes. Those who still see a point in voting are casting their ballots more out of habit than conviction. There may already be an electoral majority in support of a political style that is neither delusional nor irrational.
All it needs is a party."
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2019/12/delusional-and-irrational-rise-of.html
Chris Trotter advocating for a new political party, in an already crowded field….assuming theres the will what level of support could it expect? or is this NZ First's future when Winston departs?
Colonel Trotter really is struggling to understand today's world through the goggles of his up-the-workers youth. His recent reckons and bedfellows suggest Winston First might be the most comfortable retirement home for him.
That may or may not be so…but the relevance isnt about his personal position but rather what proportion of the electorate share it
Probably. It's not like he can bring himself to support the party in parliament with actual left wing policies.
Trotter's obviously quite at home contributing to whaleoil and now its just as incredulous successor.
what's its successor?
That site they set up by copying all whaleoik's files and contact list, defying the official receiver. Called 'bdf' or something? Same cling-ons, same rubbish.
Is Trotter writing there?
No idea sorry. Not willing to find out. 🙂
lol, me neither.
it's bad enough just contemplating that it might be true.
He's writing there. He's got his own author's page describing him as a weekly columnist with links to everything he's contributed. He's posted something every week since 1 April.
YSB
AOK
Thats not really surprising given his alignment with Jim Anderton's New Labour back in the day…he is , like many i'd suggest, somebody without a natrual political home in todays environment
He doesn't have to cosy up to the Greens to support them on their policy platform. I've long found his negativity towards the left odd.
The Greens are not his home, and id suggest never will be…he is like my parents, an old school social democrat…theres a lot of them about
Yes, my question is more about why he doesn't support the Greens anyway? Where did this political home thing being so exclusionary come from? Lots of people don't have a political home, it's ok to still support parties that are doing good things. The alternative is a fractured left, where too many people think that politics has to be what they want it to be or else (which does appear to be where we are at).
I dont know how old you are but you need to view from the perspective of someone of his generation (im a little younger than him,but not much)….we are all a product of our environment
I'm in my early 50s. I see people much younger than CT doing this too, but he's had longer to figure out the strategy failure in such an approach.
theres no strategy approach…its visceral
CT’s writings are visceral? Ouch!
“theres no strategy approach…its visceral”
I’m sure that’s at least partly true. But then that’s the problem isn’t it. He’s smart enough to understand that strategy matters for the greater cause and that one’s gut can undermine that if not used wisely. He makes his political choices just like the rest of us.
Bowelly.
zing, Andre!
He's of a generation that has, and thus wants to keep, so while a social democrat he was against the CGT because people of his generation did not support it.
He likes to pose with the left, but not if it is not popular with his peers, and as you know a lot of oldies voted for Brexit (for the little England of their youth – nostalgia). His is the nostalgia of one no longer of the left, now a cynical realist broken by struggles lost – tired and conceding defeat.
He is like the American Catholic middle class – once Democrats, but now many vote GOP seduced by being white and middle class thus acceptable to their now WASP brethren. Or like Bryce Edwards as long as he is not actually left advocating, he can be a media commentator too as one of their token lefties. Or like Josie Pagani advocating a Labour tax cut strategy to get re-elected, so we remain with inadequate government funding.
thanks SPC, that makes a lot of sense.
it is a problem…possibly insoluble. We might think we are making rational decisions but I suspect we largely only seek out justification for our gut instincts…and why would CT be any different?
plenty of people know how to use their minds, and use gut and brain in making decisions about how they act.
plenty?…enough to change an election result?
one would hope that a seasoned political commentator like Trotter had a better hold of his reason. Changing an election result happens because of many factors, and the influence on that includes political commentary. Which takes me back to finding it odd that he can’t bring himself to support the party with the most left wing policies, assuming those are his actual values. I suspect what SPC is saying is part of it.
@SPC
think that is a harsh and inaccurate assessment..CT's generation of social dems are by and large unwitting beneficiaries of the asset inflation…indeed many of them are happy to risk their own futures to help their children/grandchildren…there is I fear a deep misunderstanding of the motivations of the older generations
Sure, for a minority of boomers. Most do not vote social democrat – look at the voting statistics – how those born 1948-64 vote.
@SPC…not sure where you get your stats …the voting turnout for that demographic is high but its split is unknown as far as I can see
@weka…a better hold on his reason? you think that commentators are somehow different/unaffected as the rest of us?
I can cite that the Tory and GOP have older voters on their side – and have seen in the past similar stats here. And one would presume that would be the case. But I canna find anything on google search, not sure why.
one should never presume…and was discussing NZ
But one can cite experienced commentators on the local political scene
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2019/12/driving-us-up-poll.html
again, thats an assumption…is worth remembering that a good chunk of those 'boomers' and pre boomers have voted Labour/left all their lives….old habits die hard
SPC – I as a disillusioned Boomer who have always voted Left, would warn you that human nature is what it is, and that your generations and others are very likely to be just as disappointing as we Boomers have shown to be. We all suffer from the same human afflictions. So don't get too haughty, huh?
Well here is some demographic information, as to age and the oldies …
https://insights.nzherald.co.nz/article/how-new-zealand-votes/
https://www.psychology.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/Voter-Sentiment-Demographics-and-Psychological-Correlates-private-1.pdf
Or slightly easier to digest and interactive (i.e. you can play with it): https://insights.nzherald.co.nz/article/how-new-zealand-votes/
There’s loads more and that’s just for NZ. Search on “voting preference by age” and you’ll be busy for a while 😉
Edit: snap!
In Vino, why presume I am not just another boomer?
Yeah I found the psychology one first, eyes glazed over it … looked for something else.
I forgot the question 🙁
Good to read you pat having a discussion that doesn't just adopt whatever the conformist view is. I like Chris Trotter because he plays with ideas, looks at what has been done before. Looks at the gap between rhetoric and reality. Sets up strawmen and then takes them down. He exposes himself to ridicule by putting down ideas that others won't consider, but which we need to think about. What Parties say they believe in, what we think of them and their policies, and whether they will be true to their principles, and whether they are practically achievable, it all has to be thought about and sometimes exposed as faulty. It's dirty work but someone has to do it.
pretty meaningless data that SPC….have you actually viewed it?
The bit about over 65's more likely to vote National than Labour. …
I see that state house tenants are considered as likely to prefer National over Labour as over 65s….who'd have thought.
Some surprising stuff, such as over 65's preferring National and Labour to NZF – NZF is not as strong there as their reputation suggests.
Yeah, it’s National 1 and Greens 2nd with state house tenants. Must be those who pay the market rent for a good bones old state house (pre leaky homes era) and who also vote.
lol…its crap
https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1205535498065846272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1205535498065846272&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fthestandard.org.nz%2Flistening-to-left-wing-dissent%2F
Thanks for posting the graph from the just been UK election…I had already seen it and it holds some useful data about that event. As you have posted it here I assume you are trying to draw some comparison with this thread and the other (so called) graph you linked.
There is no comparison.
Your earlier link (https://insights.nzherald.co.nz/article/how-new-zealand-votes/) is an overlay of census data on election results by polling booth which has too many variables and assumptions . It then displays those assumptions with an unquantified graph so we have no way of knowing what it is expressing. Finally there are contradictions and unlikely results that should be ringing warning bells and demand verification by alternate method….in other words…it is crap
@ Incognito…if youre honest with yourself your own posts are likely so
I won’t pretend otherwise.
lol…well it always helps to be aware
Sour Sacha – suck a lemon.
you've been warned before about poking people with a stick. Please stop.
Are you prescribing homeopathy? 🙂
Well since Metirea and Cunliffe were taken out at the knees. And since the managerial set in Labour have well and truly buried any move to democratise the party. And since the only social democrat on the scene is an old school right winger…yeah, there's an almost empty lane waiting to be claimed by simply promoting a social democratic alternative to NZ's woeful liberalism (think Corbyn/Sanders/SNP etc)
yep..thats why I nominated NZ First…sans Winston
Yeah but…are you suggesting Peters is the only old school Tory in the NZ First ranks? That he suppresses a left leaning social democratic tendency within the party? Not seeing it myself, but hey…
No…Peters is old school no doubt…but hes an old school politician…theres a difference between the voter and the voted for.
Winston is a divisive character (personality) but the party has the potential to have a wider appeal…sans Winston. Its basis is old school social democrat…that is not to say I support it but I see the appeal for a demographic
The Tory lead has dropped again in the latest You Gov poll.
https://yougov.co.uk/uk-general-election-2019/
Still looks unlikely for Labour – but here's hoping!!
So apparently (just reading this atm) no polls have factored in people under the age of 39 who registered this year. That's about 4 million people 'blanked'.
And if you look at footage of Corbyn in public and contrast it to footage of Johnson…it really doesn't gel with the narrative being spun by pop media outlets. Corbyn draws crowds and Johnson draws jeers.
Earlier today (or was it last night?) I ran a wee thought experiment on how pop media would likely slant stuff if Labour was looking good…
Pop media reflects the interests of elites. And the last thing they want is for a Corbyn led government to be offering the British public the option of remaining in Europe but being free from Europe's economic liberal straitjacket (the one that renders any social democratic policy platform unlawful) – or of remaining in Europe with the straitjacket still on.
People will opt for the first of those options. And that option fucks elites up. (Reversal of all those privatisation cash cows etc)
So to prevent a Labour/SNP majority, it's absolutely necessary for elites to discourage the Labour vote and hope for a hung parliament – hence the "foregone conclusion" bullshit that just doesn't accord with what can be seen at those public events/rallies.
Edit – Hmm, it also appears, if I’m reading things correctly (poll data hurts my head btw) that the polls being reported are generally conducted by way of “online panel”…
Thanks Bill – the youth vote will be crucial for a Labour win. I haven't got my head around how well different polls are measuring this.
A lot has been said about the YouGov MRP model (which currently predicts a Tory win), because 'it got it right last time'. But actually a track record of getting one election right once doesn't mean that much. I looked through the methodology – what isn't clear is when their panel of registered voters was selected (and specifically whether it can include the most recent registrations – perhaps it can't)?
No comments yet on the announcement by Grant Robertson?
This is the best thing that labour has done since forming the current government
We need the list of projects.
If they are to get any poll-reversal upwards they need to be specific and do-able.
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1912/S00091/12-billion-in-extra-infrastructure-investment.htm
And I have to ask the bonkers question: if their surplus is that big, maybe they don't need our taxes as much, so maybe they should give some back.
Shit twice today I've thought you belong in the national party. Or are you planning on going full Colonial Viper?
Can see where you're coming from, but a bit harsh lol
Everybody knows you never go full CV.
Would one be aware that they are circling the wormhole ,edging closer to the vortex that sucks them into CV land?
Top form today. onya
You favour tax cuts over hospitals and school maintenance?
It's not Thursday yet ducky.
Mr Jones? You okay?
So if we dig up, as a species, CHx and burn them. And to mitigate the effects we bury, mineralize in carbonated, or other COx aren't we adding hydrogen and removing oxygen from the biosphere? As the sea oxygen depletes, is it a good idea to depend on co2 sequestration, doesn't it create a new problem? o2 loss.
Solution, ban the private automobile globally.
Shane Jones taken from Parliament in an ambulance. All the best Shane.
I was going to ask you why you would fund tarseal of The Lost Highway seeing the gravel was part of the experience. And why you aren't putting that money into investigating a decent road around Raetihi and Whanganui that won't slip into the river. That is really important, not giving the tourists from the cities a nice smooth road. When they are in the backblocks why not let them get the whole experience?
Update
https://twitter.com/winstonpeters/status/1204654360208142338
Politics is brutal.
David Duke will be delighted.
https://twitter.com/ThatRabbiCohen/status/1204545779173597184
Is that a piss-take Joe? It has to be!
Granted, Zionism was an attempt to recast Judaism as a race/ethnicity. So on that front, the Netanyahu's of the world will be well pleased. But…well, what's to prevent an executive order designating Catholicism as a nationality? And why would that be any less absurd?
Serious, and seriously unimpressive.
https://twitter.com/stevesilberman/status/1204575592399589376
and
https://twitter.com/nytpolitics/status/1204533600537972736
‘
Hate Speaker in Chief
Two days after President Trump delivers a speech littered with antisemitic tropes and memes, two mass shooters motivated by antisemitic views target a Jewish market in Jersey City.
<a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/11/nyregion/jersey-city-shooting.html" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/11/nyregion/jersey-city-shooting.html</a>
<a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/12/09/trump-israeli-american-council-anti-semitic-claims/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/12/09/trump-israeli-american-council-anti-semitic-claims/</a>
Anyone know when the UK election results will start coming in, NZT?
Friday night probably, our time. dunno whether it takes them minutes or hours to count the votes.
Looking like mid afternoon Friday (3am UK time).
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/12/10/2019-general-election-uk-vote-result-exit-polls/
Exit polls announced when voting has closed, 11am Fri NZT.
Second UK election question. Who are you all following that's got the good takes?