Open mike 11/02/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, February 11th, 2011 - 104 comments
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Open mike is your post.

It’s open for discussing topics of interest, making announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

Comment on whatever takes your fancy.

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Step right up to the mike…

104 comments on “Open mike 11/02/2011”

  1. Tony P 1

    In this rugby-centric country and with the RWC looming how great is it to have the All Whites win team of the year at the Halbergs?

    • Pascal's bookie 1.1

      🙂

    • The Voice of Reason 1.2

      The rugbyheads don’t like it shock horror!

      I appreciate the default position of all NZ sports awards is to give the gong to the AB’s, but c’mon! Sport is not just about winning, it’s about participation, fair play and, in the case of the All Whites, succeeding beyond reasonable expectation.

      And if it had to go to a team that actually won something, it still wouldn’t be the All Blacks. Step up to the podium, Benji Marshall, captain of the mighty Kiwis Rugby League team, winners of the 4 nations tournament in 2010 and still proudly World Champions after stunning Australia at Suncorp Stadium in 2008.

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/4646268/Controversy-over-All-Whites-Halberg-Awards-win

    • Colonial Viper 1.3

      Trevor Mallard over on RA isn’t sounding keen on the All Whites getting it.

  2. happynz 2

    Pretty doggone cool if kickball is your thing. It isn’t mine, so…meh.

  3. Pascal's bookie 3

    From the insider column in Granny this morning (the Business liftout):

    “Some are grumbling in the Beehive about certain lobbyists and appointments to government boards using the blogosphere to make infantile comments and attack people under what they believe to be anonymity.
    Ministers are less than amused because, in some cases, the identity of the writer is obvious.”

    lolz.

    but also, an insight to how modern hournalism kinda works.

    The ‘some’ there. Who’s that?

    Can’t tell us, off the record see.

    Hints that it’s a minister though. Reader is left to try and guess who said it, and who the pseudonymous commenter might be. Also, the journo is undercover, no byline see, it’s the ‘insider’. beltway goss. The gallery talking to the village, on the QT and very hush hush. Not too helpful to me.

    But there is a story here. If the commenters are telling tales out of school, and the minister’s complaints are legit, then the minister has options I would assume.

    But, seemingly, mystery minister doesnae want to use those options. Which makes me believe that the mystery commenter is not doing anything wrong, employment wise. In which case, the minister seems to be pressuring journos to ignore the commenter, or to shape the journos opinions of what said commenter is saying, Something like that anyhoo.

    The journo is trying to let it out there that something is going on, but the common oik is not to get the full picture, because of the ‘off the record’ business. But in instances like this, in my view, off the record’ is being abused here. These are semi private signals beng sent from ministers to those in the know. Weird shit.

  4. Millhouse 4

    I believe that criminal justice should not be used as a public relations spectacle.

    Keeping this prejudice in mind – Is anybody else unsettled by the manner in which Judith Collins and police seem to have set up the raids upon the Rebels MC New Zealand chapter for maximum publicity?

    It would seem to me that the ‘tough talking’ announcements from the police and Collins on the 28th of January regarding the threat of the Rebels were a set up designed to wet the publics appetite for yesterdays raids.

    Is it appropriate for Collins to be using day to day policing as a political prop for her persona of “Crusher Collins”?

    I wonder how long it will be before she is wearing a vest going on contrived night raids ‘a La’ Bernard Kerik or holding a shotgun before a “table of dope”.

    • Pascal's bookie 4.1

      Anyone else notice, on 3news last night, that a govt source wanted it noted that most P dealers are on a winz benefit?

      I don’t know how they would know that, or if it’s true, or at what level of ‘dealing’ it is true; but I struggle to see how it’s worthy of much mention.

      Did you know that most top level organised crims have family trusts? Just sayin y’all, just sayin.

      • Olwyn 4.1.1

        The claim that the people busted were on benefits was mentioned on TV 1 as well.

        • just saying 4.1.1.1

          It registered and it worried me.

          Just had a chat to someone from the Human Rights Commission. Being in receipt of a WINZ benefit is a ground for dicrimination, but apparently the freedom of the press, and the intricacies of the Act would prevent an individual action in this case.

          However she urged me to complain to the TV channels and the Press Council and suggested I email the commission asking them to look into and make a public statement about these occurrences. She said they would respond formally.

          Would love it if others also wrote to the hrc asking for them them make a statement on this matter. I’m old enough to remeber the days when headlines like “Tongan bashes taxi-driver” was the norm.

          infoline@hrc.co.nz

    • ianmac 4.2

      You’re right there Millhouse. And yes even crims are entitled to their privacy re benefits, not so much for their sake but for the credibility of the Benefit System.
      Perhaps Crusher can pose over an alleged crim handcuffed and in pain. She could be wearing a flack jacket like Key did and rest her heel on the prostrate crims neck.
      (Millhouse?)

  5. Bored 5

    On the subject of Key slashing benefits I really appreciated Turei’s speach (which you posted). She told the story of her father as a real lfe example of where the system failed him, and put the Nact policies in a real human context.

    Who here remembers Ruthenasia, the Mother of All Budgets? The most major welfare slash to date. Key appears to want to emulate it. He is right, we cant afford benefits, not so long as we want to keep the wealthy undertaxed.

    I remember the hollow sinking feeling of Richardsons heartless announcement. I was driving home, beautiful sunset, happy that I was after a few years on the bones of my arse earning good cash, doing very well thank you. My friends and family had their hard times continuing the Roger restructure that was supposed to be “good” for us. Onto the radio news came Ruth, cheerily announcing her medicine to the applause of the wealthy. I reflected (as a new wealthy type), there but for the grace of God go I, and my friends were in the firing line for this treatment.

    It always makes me sick to the bottom of my stomach when those who have take more from those that dont have. And when they, as Key and Richardson do, try to justify it I feel disgust, total contempt. Well done Turei.

    • Gotham 5.1

      Well said. I totally agree. And we are in a similar position as you described. A combination of extreme hard work and serendipity has meant our family and my immediate family can be labelled comfortably ‘rich’. And yet, I feel totally angst that my friends, and my partner’s family are bearing the brunt of today’s hardship – compounded so much by this current government. I want to live in a society that believes it’s own true measure of wealth is reflected in the support and opportunities available to the most vaulnerable and disadvantaged.

      That’s not the society we are living in now.

      • RedLogix 5.1.1

        Exactly… wealthy and poor alike… none of us are all that happy.

        Most people wake up in the morning and some little voice in their heads says, “This can’t be right”.

    • Draco T Bastard 5.2

      He is right, we cant afford benefits, not so long as we want to keep the wealthy undertaxed.

      We can have a viable, healthy society that cares for everyone or we can have rich people. We can’t have (afford) both.

    • millsy 5.3

      I think we are to this day, feeling the effects of Ruth Richardson’s 1991 budget. I belive that a lot of what is wrong in the country, with social breakdown, youth suicide, the prison popluation, etc, stems from the ECA, and the 1991 budget, which cut funding to a lot of our social institutions, and not just welfare.

    • Unfortunatly a lot of working people have no idea what is going on. History just repeats it’s self . Muldoon , and Holland were Fascists and frightful yet the working people kept them in power ,and the more they clubered their own people the more they supported the bastards . look at Key poincing around smiling and waving while unemployment soars and working conditions worsen. I look back to when I was a kid in slumb london. The rent for the hovels we lived in were 2/6 (half a crown) a week . (The old age pension was 2 shilling) miss one weeks payment and out into the street one went. Owned by the Duke of Westminster , a High Tory and member of the Royal Family. Yet when these parasites made a public apearance the public worshiped them . It’s still the same . I wonder why I spend my life activly fighting for the Political Left but I expect it’s in my genes .

  6. Joe Bloggs 6

    Aucklanders have been waiting for Len Brown to show his his true colours and a worryingly sepia tone has started to emerge.

    His 100 initiatives in 100 days are starting to unravel – a lot of these things have emerged to be smoke and mirrors; business as usual; work already in progress for a big city.

    And just last week it was commuting to work by train while his popemobile makes the same trip via the motorway with no passenger. Len’s response? “I’ll do what I will”. Ooops – that show of concern is evidently show over substance…

    But the grassroots support has still been there. After all, his hands are around the necks of the troughers, Len still has a chokehold over the council excesses. Or does he?

    His latest slip-up must surely erode confidence in his regime. Ongoing ineptitude at the highest council levels – not amongst the managers but amongst the elected councillors and his own office – is a sure formula for failure on a massive scale.

    So why has Len endorsed a 750% budget blow-out within months of being voted in?

    The original budget for the supercity’s Maori Statutory Board was $400,000. This week the finance committee voted unanimously to fund the Board to the tune of $3,435,500 in the 2011-2012 annual plan.

    Len’s response to the universal public outrage has been to deny, deny, deny … he’s blamed the city’s managers, even though 17 of Len’s councillors worked all over the numbers with managers before the plan was even sent to the finance committee.

    It’s a little hard to swallow the spin that a budget can be prepared and voted in, without Len’s knowledge or approval. What good mayor doesn’t have their finger on the financial pulse of the city they rule over?

    But instead of swallowing deeply, squaring his shoulders, and accepting responsibility, he’s now pointing fingers at the Transition Agency. Even though the ATA ceased to exist before the Auckland Council was voted in back in November 2010 (my God was it only 3 months ago?), Len covered himself with glory this morning in his interview with Mike Hoskins when he blamed Mark Ford and the ATA for getting him into this pickle.

    His role in this fiasco must spell the end of the golden weather for Brown – the emerging thunderheads are a bilious shade of fecal yellow and the future looks ominous.

    • Absolute rubbish Joe.

      This is a big snow job by the NACT Government who are really, really embarassed they dropped the ball on this.

      They refused to have elected Maori representation on Council. Instead of this they intended to have a toothless sop where Maori could meet and talk and have their recommendations binned.

      But Hide, who is the Minister responsible, stuffed the drafting of the legislation up. I am sure they did not intend this to occur but they enfranchised appointed not elected Maori representation.

      Once this result was understood by the Council then under the legislation the Council had to properly fund the Maori advisory committee. Because the appointees had votes the amount of support they would require suddenly ballooned. Of course they need independent legal advice, secretarial support and other resources so they could exercise their votes correctly. The Transition Authority thought it was funding a toothless talkshop, not a committee with real power.

      And now righties will try and beat Len up for the situation. They should instead fix their aim on Rodney Hide. This is his stuff up. He was told repeatedly the process was rushed and there were going to be many unintended consequences. This is just one of them.

      • Joe Bloggs 6.1.1

        You’re veering from the issues of Len’s bungling and avoiding ther fact that Len’s turned around and said to ther finance committee redo the numbers. Of course he can’t say redo the numbers if his hands are tied by the legislation. So he must be posturing.

        But if he’s not posturing and he can really get the numbers redone then his hands are not tied by the legislation and you’re posturing instead. Who’s it to be? Len or you?

        • mickysavage 6.1.1.1

          You’re veering from the issues of Len’s bungling and avoiding ther fact that Len’s turned around and said to ther finance committee redo the numbers.

          No I am just trying to point out that Hide should take the blame for the whole representation fiasco but I am sure that you and other RWNJs will jump up and down and scream and shout to try and shift the blame onto Len.

          Here are the rules as told to the Council by the NACT Gobernment:

          Funding
          (1) To enable the board to carry out its purpose, perform its functions, and exercise its powers, the Auckland Council must meet the reasonable costs of—
          (a) the board’s operations; and
          (b) the board’s secretariat; and
          (c) establishing committees under section 86; and
          (d) seeking and obtaining advice under section 86.
          (2) The board and the Council must make a funding agreement every year on the amount of money and the level of servicing that the Council is to provide to the board.
          (3) The agreement must include the board’s work plan for the year.
          (4) The agreement must include—
          (a) the fees payable to the board’s members under clause 17; and
          (b) provision for payment of reasonable expenses under clause 18.
          (5) The board and the Council must negotiate the agreement in good faith.
          (6) The agreement is to be made within a time that enables the board to continue to carry out its purpose without interruption.
          (7) The board or the Council may initiate a review of the funding agreement by giving a written or electronic notice to the other party stating the terms of the review.

          The bolded bit means it has to be done now. I understand February 16 has been set as the cut off time and this sounds appropriate.

          The numbers are the numbers. I suspect that a few savings may be able to be made but the committee as formed by legislation has major powers and will need considerable resources.

          But do not blame Len for this. Go talk to Rodney Hide if you are really upset.

          • Joe Bloggs 6.1.1.1.1

            I don’t think that blaming Rodney for Lennie’s train travel antics is a productive approach, do you Mickey?

            There’s only so much spoin that a gullible public will swallow and it certainly looks like Len Brown’s golden summer is turning into a not so golden shower

            • mickysavage 6.1.1.1.1.1

              Who is talking about trains?

              Your original post and subsequent comment were all about the cost of Iwi representation. Trains were not mentioned.

              Is it that you agree now that this is all Rodney Hide’s stuff up?

              • Joe Bloggs

                evidently you didn’t read as far as para three:

                And just last week it was commuting to work by train while his popemobile makes the same trip via the motorway with no passenger. Len’s response? “I’ll do what I will”. Ooops – that show of concern is evidently show over substance…

                • Hmmm

                  Do I take it that you concede the the major problem is caused by Hide not Len, and that you now want to resort to a symbolic act that you are attempting to trivialise and suggesting that AuckLen will crumble just because he caught a train?

  7. joe90 7

    #Tahir Uninstalling dictator in progress … ███████████████████████████░ …99.9%

  8. Bill 8

    And in Egypt, ‘the generals’ have grabbed power. The CIA pointsman, Omar “Sheik al-Torture” Suleiman steps up, with the army backing him to provide ‘stability’.

    It was all predicted. Now the only question is whether the people on the streets ‘go home’. If they don’t, the army will lay into them. If they do, then all the photographs taken over recent weeks will be used by Suleiman to round up ‘troublemakers’ and ship them off to “the torture chambers he runs on behalf of the CIA, such as Abu Zaabal, or the maximum-security dungeon Scorpion, so they can be waterboarded, or electro-shocked upside down, or forced to lie in a electrified bed frame, or be beaten by electric cattle prods, or be anally raped by specially trained dogs, or have their spines hyper-extended to the point of fracture, or be kept for days in the dreaded “tiny coffin” cage, or simply be left to rot wrapped head to toe in duct tape, like a mummy.”

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MB11Ak01.html

    And our leaders slap themselves on the back on a ‘job well done’.

    • Carol 8.1

      The worry is that Egypt will just be transformed for more US domination, meanwhile being proclaimed as a democratic revolution. But on AJ this morning, they were saying that, the word from those in touch with the Washington beltway, is that the US government has been uncertain all along about how this is playing out. Also someone said that the US military has strong influence & involvement with the Egypt military. And the US military will not want to be associated with a violent and public attack on peaceful protestors.

    • joe90 8.2

      Cooper on CNN is saying that, unlike earlier in the protests when people were afraid to appear on camera, tonight Tahrir square protesters are almost queuing to be interviewed.

      • Carol 8.2.1

        Mubarak is talking on TV now. He feels deep pain for the dead protestors. He is committed to implement all his promises…. sounds like he’s not standing down. Booing in Tahir Square.

        He will not follow orders from outside. He will not run the coming elections. He will continue to shoulder his responsibility until the Sept elections.

        • Carol 8.2.1.1

          He will lay down a framework for the peaceful transition of power. He will not give in to foreign pressure. He will translate people’s interests in the transition. He has laid down a clear vision as to how to resolve the crisis. Clear road map and specific timetable. He will not penalise those responsible for the violence.

          He has today proposed the change to 6 constitutional articles – prepared to change the articles at a later stage as required. These are aimed at streamlining the candidacy to the elections to ensure it is fair & transparent. Creating balance between terrorisim & citizens rights, preparing for scrapping the emergency security law.

          The crowd in the square is chanting and shouting. They are not listening to Mubarak. they won’t be happy.

          he is transferring power to the vice president.

          • Carol 8.2.1.1.1

            When it became clear that Mubarak wasn’t going, the mood of the crowd in the square changed to anger. They waved their shoes in the air. They are now shouting loudly and chanting with anger. They are chanting, “He must leave!”

            Mubarak is only offering minor changes to the protestors. He addressed the crowd as “his children.”

            Some but not all powers will be transferred to the Vice President. Mubarak stays.
            It may be that the shift from announcements by the military, indicating Mubarak was standing down, followed by Mubarak not leaving, indicates an on-going struggle behind the scenes…. and still going on.

            • higherstandard 8.2.1.1.1.1

              Yikes they’re starting to march on the presidential palace…. 15-20ks down the road.

              • Carol

                yes. And AJ is reporting a glaring silence on the newswires, from the US. Sounds like this is not what Obama was expecting. I gather the Egyptian Vice President is the CIA man.

                Apparently the crowds are moving towards the state TV building. The Vice President is now talking on TV. He is trying to reassure the protestors that they are gradually moving towards meeting the protestors demands. he’s telling the youth they are heroes, and now it is time to go home. He said don’t listen to the sattellite TV channels.

                • Carol

                  A commentator on AJ says this is a last desperate effort by Washington &Ttel Avivv to keep their man in power. However, he said that Mubarak has totally misunderstood the people. Tomorrow there will be blood on the streets.

                  He says this is a major revolution, up there with the Russian revolution. He said Washington & Tel Aviv fear the domino effect in the Middle East. Under-reported is the fact that there are protests poised to happen in Bahrain in the next couple of weeks.

                  The Egyptian protestors are very angry. There is a potential confrontation involving the military. The protestors are not organised enough. But there is a popular revolution which has its own momentum & which Mubarak has not grasped.

            • Bill 8.2.1.1.1.2

              Here are two ‘you tube’ links that quite nicely illustrate the gulf between the authorites and the people.

              One is an interview with Omar “Sheik al-Torture” Suleiman. He’s of the opinion that Egypt isn’t ready for democracy.

              The other is an emotive… heart wrenching TV interview with Wael Ghonim, one of the key on-line campaigners in Egypt who was detained then released. It begins with talk of securing compensation for the families of the dead. Then there is Waels reaction and statement…. (Click on the subtitle bar and select ‘original language’ to get english subtitles)
              http://egypt.alive.in/2011/02/08/dream-tv-interview-with-wael-ghonim-%E2%80%93-part-last-3-%E2%80%93-with-english-subtitles/

              • Pascal's bookie

                What a clusterfuck.

                we’ve got all of what’s been said above going on, the saud’s have told Obama that Muburak (read the regime) is their man and that they will replace whatever aid the US cuts off. Israel saying we need the regime (or something very much like it) to stay in place. Regional protests and sympathy for the Egyptian street.

                If a proto revolution with elements of democracy gets crushed, and the army ends up replacing this regime with another that placates all of the above listed elements plus the US…

                …this is v.good for OBL.

                • Carol

                  And may I say thanks to Triangle for contnuing to run Al Jazeera Live. AJ was meant to finish on Triangle at 9am. It’s still being broadcast.

                  • Bored

                    Thanks Carol, keep it coming.

                    It appears that “it” is all on in Egypt. Tomorrow the Palace becomes the target. The key question has to be the loyalty of the front line troops: prior revolutions have shown that conscript armies often lack the will to shoot their own people, their own families. They tend to shoot officers. You might get away with a coup as an officer, but you wont get away with mobilising force against the troops own grandmothers.

                    Expect action from the US and Europe overnight, they cannot win in the old “imperium” mode but may be tempted to try in the absence of any imagination.. Also watch Brent Crude prices when the market opens. It is currently $100. you will smell fear, and it will cost you and I at the pumps.

                    • Carol

                      Bored, it was pleasing to see such extended live coverage on free-to-air TV. As I recall, today Al Jazeera reported that some of the front line troops (don’t know if it was more than 1 or 2), took off their weapons, handed them to protesters, and refused to continue supporting the army.

                      But the leaders of the army are pretty dependent on the US army. So, it looks like troubling times ahead.

                  • prism

                    Another aspect of the sad Egyptian situation – how lack of true democracy increasingly erodes the system, and how dangerous to let army forces get too strong. There seem more and more under army dictatorship on the planet. If the people are trying to live as a civilised democracy where arms bearing is limited and mainly used by defence and law forces as we have, or are forced to forego any right to arms, then the ability to regain real democracy requires many people willing to sacrifice their lives because of their protesting. The USA situation of wide gun ownership and use appears to be a loss of civil control outside the other two approaches.

                    Then there is the disadvantage of old leaders clinging onto power and preventing the healthy development of new leaders. The Egyptian guy is in his 80s and the Egyptians don’t seem to have an opposition they really support. And there can be an attempt to continue their influence after death. This week have seen Nancy Reagan honouring her husband’s memory on his spurious 100th birthday. He died on 5 June 2004. Even when cult figures are dead, they have the power to rise again infinitely if it suits some schemers purpose.

                    • prism

                      Latest view I have heard on Mubarak is on RadioNz lunchtime. He is said to have about 100 billion – dollars I suppose. These are supposed to be stashed around the world. If he was pushed out of office now, there would be grounds for searching and demanding information about the money which presumably isn’t just his savings and profits from family business. If he leaves in September, when his current term would be up, then there would be no legitimate reason for demanding disclosure of funds connected to him.

                      His deputy in his recent speech tried put the blame for the uprising on western rabble rousers.

  9. Pascal's bookie 9

    The Tea Party is all about the deficit and the creeping takeover of a free society by statist manchurian candidates who seek to usurp her constititution.

    They are not a bunch of whackadoo christian Talibanista reconstructionist mysoginist aresholes who think that moses was the best president, so stop saying that!

    In a video of Webster’s appearance at a 2003 Advanced Training Institute (ATI) seminar, for sale at the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP) website, Webster described how making a “commitment” to Gothard’s teachings “absolutely changed my life.” Those commitments, he went on, “are the basis for everything I do today.”

    Webster isn’t the only member of Congress with deep connections to Gothard. Rep. Sam Johnson (R-Texas), who just became chair of the Social Security Subcommittee of the House Ways and Means Committee, is the chair of the board of directors of the IBLP. Other politicians, like Texas Governor Rick Perry, have spoken at IBLP conferences, and Mike Huckabee is fan. And many others, such as Sarah Palin, as mayor of Wasilla, have attended his ostensibly secular (but not) International Association of Character Cities (IACC) conferences, based on his 49 character traits, and declared their municipalities “Cities of Character.” The supposedly secularized version of Gothard’s “character traits” have been taught in public schools.

  10. vto 10

    So Mark Solomon of Ngai Tahu is all upset they can’t lay decent claim to just about every square inch of the Canterbury coastline under the proposed foreshore & seabed law. Diddums. But, more disturbingly, he states that they will not say what sort of claims they will in fact make. “Its secret” he says..

    Why does it need to be secret Mark? Is there some angle or loophole you can see which will open the gates for you? And if people knew of your intentions they would be upset? Why the need for secrecy?

    Smelly smells emanating.

    I also note that Ngai Tahu is upset they cannot extent the proposed law to land claims.

    Well, maybe I have got a few things wrong but the way the Ngai Tahu settlement was presented to the public back in the 90’s was that it was full and final settlement.

    Clearly someone was duping the public. Ngai Tahu.

    Stinks. No wonder there are backlashes at times. Bloody race-based privilege. I keep saying that it is unsustainable. People living side by side do not like separate rules. It breeds frustration first, then anger, then hatred. Then it is all over.

    Ngai Tahu should come clean about whether it was duping the public with the full and final settlement back in the 90’s. Something stinks.

    • pollywog 10.1

      Not surprised given the stories of Ngai Tahu coercing smaller sth island iwi to claim under them back in the day and reneging on promises once they signed and the claim was settled.

      Just don’t get me started on Ngai Tahu’s tenuous claims to tangata whenua status, given they barely beat the colonists to the sth island to claim indigeneity to the region.

      • vto 10.1.1

        “given they barely beat the colonists to the sth island to claim indigeneity to the region.”

        Yes well that is the sole and decrepit and selfish basis on which Maori claims sit. “We were here first, so nyah nyah nyah”.

        First in, first served.

        Such a brilliant way to go about life on planet earth…

        • vto 10.1.1.1

          Well it seems nobody has followed up this line so I will reply to myself ha ha. I guess either I am way off target or posters are not quite prepared to stick their neck out – either way..

          Maori representation on various boards and governances and councils and trusts and this and that. It aint right and I don’t like it.

          Sure, address the wrongs of the past etc. But giving one group of people special privileges based solely on their race and birth just stinks. It creates resentment. It is in fact racism, bare and simple.

          Fuck that shit. That is exactly the repression my own ancestors (some) escaped from in other parts of the world. People do not like it (in exactly the same way Maori did not like racism towards them). The more it goes on the more the resentment will build.

          Quite why Maori push for such an unsustainable political sub-structure I do not know, given their own recent experience. And especially as they are such a strong and smart and resourceful race with a huige amount to offer the world – they don’t need to. The only solution I can see to this conundrum is to put a time limit on these substructures. Deal with the grievances, bring / pull them into the system, and then in time end it and move to an equal footing.

          2c to the power of 10.

  11. joe90 11

    The chairman of the Colorado Republican Party announced that he’s not going to run for re-election because he’s tired of the nuts who have no grasp. The fifth comment says it all really.

  12. higherstandard 12

    Why is ACC covering tourists accidents ?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4644866/Tourist-critical-of-accident-care

    “ACC spokesman Laurie Edward said the distinction was simple.

    “For any tourist working or not, if they have an accident, it is covered by ACC.”

    This includes any medical transfer by ambulance or helicopter, through to surgery, hospital stay and rehabilitation.

    While the support of ACC was not endless, it meant all visitors to New Zealand were treated the same as citizens, he said.”

    • Pascal's bookie 12.1

      I guess the alternative would be giving them the right to sue?

      • Colonial Viper 12.1.1

        That’s basically the issue. Or giving the tourist’s medical insurance corporates the right to sue, to recover their money.

      • higherstandard 12.1.2

        Great give them the right to sue – why on earth should the NZ public be picking up the bill for tourists who want to take part in high risk activities, crash cars etc etc.

        Fucks sake we should do what they do in most other countries get the fuckers to sign a waiver saying that they are undertaking the activity at their own risk and they waive all rights.

        We really are the most softcock country in the world.

        • orange whip? 12.1.2.1

          What activity?

          Crossing the road? Boarding a bus? Having a swim?

          No fault means you and I can’t be sued for accidents. What’s the point of it if some people can sue us after all?

          What you’re suggesting doesn’t remove cover for tourists, it removes the protection we have now to not be sued.

        • Bright Red 12.1.2.2

          if you give tourists the right to sue for personal injury then you and I will have to take out insurance in case we injury one of them by accident and it is found (after a long and expensive court process) that we have been negilent.

          I wouldn’t have any trouble with putting a $20 per visit levy on tourists to cover their ACC costs. the $40 million that would raise would be enough to cover the costs, I’m sure. far more simple and cheaper than the silliness you’re suggesting, hs.

          “Fucks sake we should do what they do in most other countries get the fuckers to sign a waiver saying that they are undertaking the activity at their own risk and they waive all rights”

          I’ve been to 30-odd countries and never signed such a waiver. made up facts led to dumbarse conclusions, hs.

          • higherstandard 12.1.2.2.1

            There’s even waivers in place from some of the more savvy operators in NZ in regards to NZ persons, and it’s fairly common practice overseas.

            Why should ACC operate as an insurer for foreigners undertaking high risk pursuits when they have contributed nothing to ACC ?

            Why should ACC operate as an insurer for private companies in NZ active in the business of offering high risk pursuits – shouldn’t they have public and private liability insurance too cover themselves rather than relying on joe public to underwrite them ?

            • orange whip? 12.1.2.2.1.1

              Again, who are the “operators” of the beach?

              Who will provide tourists with a waiver for a swim?

              • higherstandard

                Again why should we cover tourists medical expenses for having a swim at a beach ?
                Have you ever heard of the expression at your own risk ?

                • orange whip?

                  hs, they’re covered either by ACC or under your proposal by the right to sue.

                  Either way we pay. Under your proposal we pay a lot more and a lot more wastefully.

                  You’re just having a grump today. Get over it.

            • Colonial Viper 12.1.2.2.1.2

              Short term thinking mate, total costs would be far higher if we went to the system you suggest, you don’t even know how much would be saved from ACC – and our hospitals could be sued for millions.

              So where is the saving again to offset these potential costs and risks to the public purse?

              Why are you insisting on giving more business to private insurers? Who benefits from that exactly?

              Bad idea mate, opening NZ up to more individual and class action lawsuits, only the lawyers and the private insurance companies will be lovin’ it.

              • higherstandard

                Nah I disagree.

                How you can have a class action lawsuit in relation to a tourist’s accident is beyond me.

                I’m insisting on giving business to private insurers because I take issue with the taxpayer underwriting tourists and private enterprise.

                • Colonial Viper

                  How you can have a class action lawsuit in relation to a tourist’s accident is beyond me.

                  That’s because you have no imagination.

                  Just imagine Cave Creek disaster with 30 American tourists.

                  • higherstandard

                    To quote a legal eagle I know who happens to be a staunch leftie.

                    ‘..there is a deep need for justice to be done in cases of serious negligence − witness the public’s response to the Erebus and Cave Creek disasters.”

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Oh so you now admit that there would be situations where the NZ Govt would suffer class action law suits from foreigners and from foreign insurance corporations?

                      Thought you would finally cotton on.

                    • higherstandard

                      Cave creek was hardly an accident, it was frank negligence, and if it had been foreign tourists involved I would have expected and endorsed them going after those responsible.

                    • Colonial Viper

                      😀 And wait until our emergency services and rescue authorities get class action lawsuits taken against them by foreigners and foreign insurance companies, for not getting assistance to the site in time

            • prism 12.1.2.2.1.3

              hs – Just a point. ACC for tourists has prevented them from suing some of our more careless operators. One of the injured tourists a while back had reasonable treatment while in NZ but very little follow up for rehabilitation etc when back in their own country. So they aren’t getting luxury treatment from ACC while we are getting necessary foreign exchange from the tourists – tourism being a leading and essential non-agricultural earner.

              • higherstandard

                “ACC for tourists has prevented them from suing some of our more careless operators.”

                WTF I mean really WTF !!

                Why should it be up to ACC to prevent liability/protect careless operators, should their be no fucking responsibility or liability for the careless operator ? ?

                • Sookie

                  Agreed. I think any tourist visiting NZ should have travel insurance. And if they have an accident the insurance company should pay the full cost, or the uninsured cheapskate. We can’t afford to pick up the ACC tab, and why the hell should we? Any Kiwi travelling abroad expects to fork out for insurance, and so our visitors should too.

                • prism

                  hs – Are you all there? Our law does not allow tourists to sue for full costs because of negligence etc leading to accidents – this from the time that ACC was introduced. The sort of long Court cases and mighty payouts ordered by such as USA courts is prevented by this legislation.

  13. Anybody up for fisking this ?

    TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS ABOUT TO BE GIVEN AWAY BY NZ’s NATIONAL and MAORI PARTIES, leaving incoming generations with NOTHING!

    · The gain is incalculable greed and enormous profits for the super rich – none of whom at all live in New Zealand.· Trans-Tasman Resources Ltd (TTR) is well advanced in its plans now to develop the iron-sands. http://www.ttrl.co.nz/cms.aspx?page=What_are_Iron_Sands&flag=1 · The company is working and talking with the Maori tribes about the projects – now! http://www.tkm.govt.nz/map

    http://uncensored.co.nz/2011/02/09/trillions-of-dollars-about-to-be-given-away-by-nz%E2%80%99s-national-and-maori-parties-leaving-incoming-generations-with-nothing/

  14. Lanthanide 14

    Atack and A few know the truth:

    Wiki-leaked cable shows in 2007-09 US diplomats are aware that Saudi oil reserves are likely overstated by 40% and that conventional oil will peak in the next decade.

    http://www.upi.com/Science_News/Resource-Wars/2011/02/10/WikiLeaks-Saudi-oil-reserves-overstated/UPI-16841297339421/

  15. prism 15

    Police in Auckland covered a dangerous driver for some time and approached him when he stopped at a supermarket. He came at them with a spiked handle, and there was a shotgun in the car. They acted correctly and successfully on this one. Hope now that the perp receives serious help in prison where he should go, to see if he can change his life and be a good citizen.

    We have too many of these out of control wild men and women who have deteriorated beyond primitive behaviour. The ability of such wild people to prey on ordinary peaceful society is not good. The other thing that is not good is that not enough concern and care is shown to the families dragging up, rather than bringing up, such uncontrolled youth. They need more help. They need too work, dignity and money that they can earn legitimately. We all deserve better than what is presently happening.

    • M 15.1

      Prism this is a great comment about out of control people. You only have to look at all the assaults that occur in Wellington city all the time. Twenty years ago most people could walk around at night unmolested but to do so now will have many pausing for thought. My brother related how one of his apprentices was walking through the city minding his own business when some arsehole clocked him a good one on the back of the head and then proceeded to go to town on him. The guy now has a piece of titanium holding his eye socket together.

      People used to argue at the pub and say a pithy “fuck you” and that would be it, but now they seem to go for grievous bodily harm if they think they can get away with it.

      The comment about being dragged up rather than brought up was something my mother used to say and it all starts from when kids are small. With my own they know it’s please, thank you, no thank you and excuse me but this seems out of fashion in some quarters and I have noticed this in many of my kids’ peers. When I was at Playcentre, if a child did not say please for an item they wanted they wouldn’t get it until they did.

      Those little words and phrases are the oil that greases all social interactions and makes life more pleasant for everyone. For my money, a guy may not be a matinee idol but if he has beautiful manners I get to thinking ‘”yummy” as it shows he has some care and respect for his fellow man and woman.

      • Rosy 15.1.1

        “The comment about being dragged up rather than brought up was something my mother used to say and it all starts from when kids are small.”

        Yeah people used to say that about my family all the time. A little consideration and respect goes both ways. ‘bint’, ‘slag’, ‘loser’, ‘white trash’, ‘bludger’ doesn’t exactly make one want to say ‘please’ and ‘thank you’. Now let me just doff my cap before I leave.

        • M 15.1.1.1

          ‘A little consideration and respect goes both ways.’

          Rosy, not saying it shouldn’t and plenty of so-called high class people have the manners of goats. In the normal course of events I try to be polite to people but there are some people you just can’t be nice/polite to and I will become very plain in my speech with them if they hard time me unfairly. I give as good as I get and it’s mostly good and don’t care if you’re a street sweeper or a five-plane millionaire because giving me/others a fair go elicits the same response.

          I do give politicians/celebrities a hard time because many of them act in awful ways to the detriment of others and their country, earn very good money and usually have armies of sycophants to massage their bruised egos so figure with their money to keep them warm and suck-ups to King Canute them, they have all they need.

          • Rosy 15.1.1.1.1

            Sorry if I seem a little over-sensitive but too many times the contact with the those not ‘dragged up’ means putting up with hectoring and derogatory statements. The people who beat up other people outside pubs etc might be perfectly polite to those they know (can you imagine a little maori boy from any background telling his aunty to shut the ****up and get me some cake, for example), They bash up others for a variety of reasons – because that’s what they’ve been brought up with, because they’ve watched to many violent movies, are involved in a culture that makes picking on others heroic, whatever. They may also come from rotten backgrounds and the only contact they have with those who didn’t is situations where they feel second-class citizens, so they certainly have no vested interest in playing the game of belonging to society and respecting its structures.

  16. prism 16

    A group of landowners are threatening to cut wires etc on a safe environmental island because they aren’t getting representation on a joint management board or something of that nature. I hope that some sensible mediation is being offered by authorities, but in reserve also a strong police presence to prevent cultural and environmental terrorism from these men. If they have legimate problems, they still should not be threatening such lawless action.

    The police could invade Tuhoe on suspected grounds of terrorism, these guys are openly, brazenly threatening it.

  17. Carol 17

    Jacinda Ardern has provided a very thoughtful response to the suggestion by Nikki Kaye for an Auckland GLBT Mardi Gras. It provides much more of a case for continued support of the GLBT community, in contrast to Kaye’s “business case”, which some gaynz commenters say has the smell of the Ponsonby Road Business Association:

    http://www.gaynz.com/articles/publish/31/article_9910.php

    Learn the lessons from Hero
    Posted in: Comment
    By Jacinda Ardern – 11th February 2011

    Same sex adoption, addressing the Human Rights Commission report on transgender issues and continuing work on HIV/AIDS prevention and services: these are some of the important issues that simply cannot be left to the too hard basket. These are the issues that we can’t just give lip service to and, when you’re in government, these are the issues that should actively be addressed.

    That’s not to say that we cannot progress other issues at the same time. This week a proposal was made that we should bring Mardi Gras to Auckland. I’m proud of my city and I’m proud that we are culturally diverse, vibrant, and that we celebrate difference. I support anything that allows us to showcase all of that- which is why I supported the Hero Parade and what it tried to achieve.

    But the Hero Parade also taught us some valuable lessons. In fact, the Parade’s most popular and well attended year became its last because some local body politicians chose not to walk the talk when it came to supporting the event and community organisations were left carrying the can. That cannot happen again, and any new proposal must have not only the support of the LGBT community, but a firm commitment from politicians, both local and central, to work alongside the community if this event is to be a success.

    • Tigger 17.1

      Kaye has no intention of working towards this. She knows there is no money for it nor a political will to make it happen. She just wants a gay tick to show her constituents, and to lord this about at the Big Gay Out. Anyone over the age of thirty will know Hero died a horrid death and dragged down a lot of energy with it.

      Most gays who want a big event go to Sydney (it’s almost just as easy for anyone out of Auckland) and it’s a great time. We don’t need a Mardi Gras. And this fag doesn’t want us saddled with another inconsequenital thing to do. We don’t need our people to be sidelined organising a damn knees up. We need them working on rights and issues – not parties.

      This is obviously yet another shiny object National is trying to distract us with. Honestly people, you’re going to have to be more subtle than that.

  18. So Hone Carter is going to be High Commissioner for the Cook Islands. Lucky bastard. How do you get a job like that?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10705619

  19. Colonial Viper 19

    Tory Government uses White Fear, White Anger

    What else to do once you have created a disenfranchised underclass who see nothing else around them apart from job cuts, public services breaking down, and a total vacuum of political leadership interested in making their daily lives better?

    Use that anger before it turns on your own Government, and deflect it on to “the other”, of course.

    In parts of Britain, Muslims are effectively under siege. They are routinely spat at and abused in the street. Over the past couple of months there have been arson and other attacks on mosques in Hemel Hempstead, Leicester, Scunthorpe, Stoke and Kingston, as well as desecration of a Muslim graveyard and fire-bombing of a halal shop.

    Most of these outrages weren’t even reported in the national media, let alone the occasion for a supportive visit from a government minister. As elsewhere in Europe, far-right organisations such as the British National party have increasingly switched the focus of their hatred from Jews and migrant populations in general to Muslims. More than half the “significant demonstrations” in the past 18 months, according to the Inspectorate of Constabulary, were mounted by the English Defence League, which only targets Muslims, smashing shop windows and assaulting passers-by whenever it manages to break through police lines in mainly Muslim areas.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/feb/09/cameron-scapegoating-muslims-toxic-impact

  20. orange whip? 20

    I know Cameron Slater isn’t the most popular blogger around here so I won’t link to it, but his recent interview series is well worth a listen. The Matt McCarten and Chris Trotter ones are particularly good, he also interviews Celia Wade-Brown and Trevor Mallard among others.

    Give him a chance, he’s not all bad.

    • lprent 20.1

      You mean that I should remove the spam filter?

      Actually I suspect I probably should. He may be a complete arsehole, but his tenacity earns him a little respect. And recently he hasn’t directed the streams of link-shoring trolls in this direction that caused the spam blocks in the first place. I’ll consult..

      Incidentally could someone use the contact us emails and send me Chris Trotters email.

  21. Pascal's bookie 21

    Haha, this is awesome.

    There is currently a little shindig going on in the US, like a jamboree for professional wingnuts.

    It’s basically a political and fundraising version of all the shit that goes on in that never ending wrestling soap opera thing on the teevee, with a bunch of fake alpha males preening and hooting at each other in competition for the adoration of the assemble rubes.

    It’s called CPAC, it’s been going for some years and it’s often where pres hopefuls test the water, (though the water seems cold this year it seems. Saw a headline somewhere along the lines of ” GOP VP field looks exciting” which about summed it up), and this year there is the added excitement of a boycott of the convention by many the faithful on account of how some Log Cabin republican types are officially going to be there and how they might catch teh ghey, so best to stay away, or something.

    Anyways, there’s this journalist that’s been a blogging it by the name of David Weigel whose name some of yall might recognise, an’ he caught this; which is all kinds of awesome:

    That said, boy, was there a lot of heckling when Donald Rumsfeld arrived at CPAC to accept the Defender of the Constitution Award. The ballroom for big events fills up many minutes in advance. In this instance, the people who wanted to hear Rand Paul speak at 3:45 had to arrive around 2:30, and stay there. If they did, they sat through a speech from Donald Trump (a surprise to attendees who weren’t checking the news frequently), and used every possible moment to yell “RON PAUL” at the Donald. When Trump responded to one of the heckles, and said that Paul “can’t win” the presidency, there were loud and righteous boos.
    It takes a while to exit the ballroom. This means that hundreds of Paul fans — recognizably younger and sometimes beardier than the median CPAC attendee — are in the room or in lines as Donald Rumsfeld is introduced.
    “I am pleased to recognize our chairman, David Keene, to recognize Donald Rumsfeld,” says emcee Ted Cruz.
    There are loud boos.
    Keene mentions that this is the “Defender of the Constitution Award.” More boos; also, shouts of “RON PAUL! RON PAUL!”
    When Rumsfeld takes the stage, the boos keep going, because some anti-war conservatives have stuck around to heckle. When it sees Dick Cheney, the crowd’s din drowns out the boos… for a while.

  22. M 22

    ‘Given the now officially acknowledged realities of Peak Oil and corresponding economic and industrial collapse, it seems probable that US oil elites have concluded that the time is right to secure what remains of Saudi Arabian oil reserves by militarily “stabilizing” the restive nation.

    US warships in Egypt:

    http://www.collapsenet.com/free-resources/collapsenet-public-access/item/605-us-military-intervention-in-egypt-a-chapter-in-america’s-saudi-arabian-endgame?-11-february-2011

  23. cardassian 23

    Mubarak steps down 🙂
    Army to step in, promises to guide the country to free and fair elections.

    • Deborah Kean 23.1

      Yes, from what I have heard, they are absolutely no better off after 18 days… I mean, can we and do we believe the Army?
      Deb

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