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Open mike 12/06/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 12th, 2021 - 71 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

71 comments on “Open mike 12/06/2021 ”

  1. Jester 1

    This is ridiculous. Surely the law must be on the new owner's side as he has paid for the property.

    Squatters turn Taranaki pensioner's $46,000 house bargain into expensive headache | Stuff.co.nz

    • Pat 1.1

      It is…but I suspect he will never gain possession of an intact house.

    • dv 1.2

      I was interested that he got the power shut off, but the squatters we able to get it put back on under another name.

      Cooley said he had the power supply cut off, but the occupants got it reconnected under another name.

    • millsy 1.3

      Unfortunately these are the risks you take when buying a property in a mortgage sale.

      • Pat 1.3.1

        The risk that the law will not be followed nor enforced (in a timely manner)?…..sounds like a recipe for chaos

        • ghostwhowalksnz

          Surely the bailiffs to forcibly remove the occupiers doesnt take 4 years, or is there something the story isnt telling us.

          • Pat

            The story (as reported) told us the bailiffs vacated the property twice…only for it to be reoccupied.

            • McFlock

              not sure why trespass orders don't apply

              • Pat

                Assume bailiffs used one to evict, though perhaps not….curious that the Police appear to need legal clarification after 2 evictions.

                • McFlock

                  It's only tangential to what I used to do, but my impression is that an eviction order is used when there's some reasonable dispute about whether the person actually has to leave a place they occupy.

                  If they get evicted then come back, they're no different from a trespasser or burglar. No colour of right to occupy. Bugger eviction, do them for breaking and entering.

                  • Pat

                    As there appears no indication there was a tenancy arrangement I would assume the order was a trespass order rather than a tenancy tribunal finding that the bailiffs enacted.

  2. ghostwhowalksnz 2

    Terrible story about a wife who dies during childbirth and the baby soon after. It must have been harrowing circumstances as the baby was delivered late at night by emergency Cesarean in the ambulance with a team from St Johns.

    This jumped out for me

    'Meepegama, an IT technician, also called and texted Silva's midwife to say she was having difficulties breathing but the midwife didn't respond."

    So much for the 24 hr service private midwives are contracted to deliver ( including a backup contact) I wonder how many new mothers get the same response but its not a dire emergency.

    • millsy 2.1

      8I wouldn't trust most midwives to deliver Warehouse brochures, let alone babies.

      The amount of mothers and babies who have died because of their useless midwives….

      Were that my wife I would have rung 111 straight away.

      [you used the wrong e-mail address]

      • ghostwhowalksnz 2.1.1

        There are hospital midwives or private midwives who deliver in a hospital and provide ante and post natal care at a clinic or at home.

        Interesting that the DHBs pay offer for their midwives will put then at $83k to $130k salary range and they arent on call.

  3. weston 3

    Wierd scenes ! An online petition against a movie recounting the events of 3/15 muslims an non muslims objecting to the idea of a central character {jacinda}being a white woman ?? 15 thousand so far according to rnz

    • weka 3.1

      Seems reasonable on the face of it. Why should Hollywood get to make money by telling the story of Ardern as Hero and not the people who were shot by a white supremacist? They appear to not have even talked with survivors and family.

      • bwaghorn 3.1.1

        While i agree they should definitely have talked to the survivors, making a film about Arderns reaction and swift action removing military style weapons is a story worth telling.

        If they wanted to do it on the actual killing they would be accused of glorifying it.

        • ghostwhowalksnz

          Yes. Its not a documentary its a 'story based on actual events'

          Have we even had a documentary done about the events of the day or is that too soon.

          • greywarshark


            The story is about a mass killing of Muslims and how the trauma at the time was lessened by our PM and authorities. The nub of it all is the killings, so don't try and slant it as being a handbook guide on how a good politician should behave in tragedies. Naturally the Muslim people are upset that their tragedy is being used as a drawcard for profit. Particularly as the PM's attention wavered to other pressing matters; support for the bereaved mothers and wives quickly lessened and soon they were being treated with the disdain that NZ administers to solo parents and being told they should be getting a job as well as properly caring for their children's upbringing.

            About 5 mothers have returned to their home countries for various reasons of difficulties. One had a 14 year old daughter in trauma after their fence was painted with hostile graffiti; she feared for her mental health.

            The film idea is disgraceful, and disrespectful, and callous. It is an example of how people don't count in a business, profit-making world and what we can expect under the economic system that we stupidly signed up to by our mendacious politicians.

            • ghostwhowalksnz

              "he economic system that we stupidly signed up to by our mendacious politicians."

              Politicians didnt sign us up to anything…. the country was colonised under the same principles.

              You have bizzare ideas about business and profit making, or would you prefer the leninist-party-state model?

              • greywarshark

                You are a bit of a cheese cutter ghost. Everyone has to be cut down to size if they don't fit your narrow interpretations.

        • Drowsy M. Kram

          The 2006 movie "Out of the Blue" is based on the Aramoana massacre that occurred over a period of two days in mid-November 1990.

          The film has received positive reviews but had a controversy during production. It faced a lot of opposition from the town, and as a result no filming was done in Aramoana. Some members of the community were against the movie being filmed, but they would get to see the movie first before it was released to the public, and it would not be called 'Aramoana.'

          It's been 2 years and 3 months since the Christchurch mosque massacres, so way too soon imho, although you can't fight "I want it now" – everything's "on demand".

          This "on-demand" generation is used to gathering information and arriving at conclusions quickly…

          What – I have to wait?! How inconvenient.

          In a statement to RNZ today, Ardern said that film-makers did not consult her in any form about their plans.

          She stopped short of condemning the film, despite the public petition asking her to do so.

          But she said plenty of stories from 15 March could be told and she does not consider hers to be one of them.

          The prime minister added the attacks on the two mosques remain very raw for New Zealand.


          • McFlock

            Never bothered watching that one, either. Or any of the ones about 9/11, etc.

            There are very few movies of that ilk that I can be bothered watching. However "sensitive" or "accurate" they claim to be, it's usually just a shallow, money-grubbing, ham-fisted pastiche of nothing we haven't seen before.

            They either run it on the same template as Jaws, or end up ignoring "accuracy" for everything except near-pornographic recreations of the last moments people spent on this earth.

            For entertainment.

            • Drowsy M. Kram

              Unpleasant material, but a fairly realistic potrayal of events by most accounts – a worthy contribution to NZ's Cinema of Unease?


              Director Robert Sarkies also co-wrote and directed the entertaining Scarfies.

              By-and-large I agree with you – too many 'exploitamentaries' on NZ screens.

              • McFlock

                I'm not saying they're all bad directors or actors or screenwriters.

                Just that they're leveraging other people's pain to make a profit.

                • Drowsy M. Kram

                  Just that they’re leveraging other people’s pain to make a profit.

                  This is applicable to many excellent and/or important movies and documentaries. The extent to which this undermines their value is a (personal) judgement call.

                  Unlike you, I watched "Out of the Blue" – it wasn't an easy watch.

                  There are several well-received NZ movies (from 'Once Were Warriors' to 'Savage') that I've never been able to bring myself watch because it seems (to me) that they would be too confronting.

                  I'm not saying these are bad movies, but if I'm going to watch a film that portrays the misery of the human condition, my preference is for based-on-fact offerings.

                  About the Film [Out of the Blue]
                  DIRECTOR'S STATEMENT


                  I lived in nearby Dunedin during the Aramoana tragedy in 1990. I remember the surreal feeling of that day when we all knew a gunman was on the loose just a few kilometres down the road. It was warm. Not a cloud in the sky. It all seemed so incongruous.

                  Aramoana always felt like the most peaceful place on earth to me. Its two beaches are breathtakingly beautiful and as a teenager I enjoyed biking out there and sitting at the end of the mole. It's a contemplative place. It feels like the edge of the world.

                  This tragedy shocked New Zealand in a profound way. It cut to the core of our idyllic self-image of our country – 'gods own country', 'a great place to bring up kids'. Before Aramoana, random violence seemed to happen elsewhere. After 13 November 1990 the violence of the world had come home. For my generation it was the moment New Zealand lost its innocence.

                  Why tell this story?

                  The Aramoana tragedy is one of the more significant events in New Zealand's recent history. It was an event that deeply affected New Zealanders at the time. I think it is important to look at significant events like this, to reflect and hopefully learn from them.

                  These events highlight the positive side of the kiwi spirit as much as darkness of the actions of one man. The people of Aramoana and the police involved acted selflessly to help each other get through that night and I think that is worth remembering, and paying tribute to.

                  As a filmmaker I was attracted to the way this story involved an entire community in a period of sustained tension. I was intrigued that David Gray was a member of the community rather than an outsider, and by the way other members of the community reacted and helped each other. The story seemed to have something distinctively New Zealand about it. It seemed like an opportunity, framed by tragedy though it is, to explore who we are as a people, or perhaps who we were.

                  • McFlock

                    Thing about Once Were Warriors is that although it was a true story, it wasn't specific person's true story.

                    It explored true themes, but without distorting someone's actual truth.

                    Your Sarkies blurb makes that point: the filmmakers was exploring themes he was drawn to, not the entire truths of the people involved.

                    I'm sure it was indeed hard viewing. Reproductions of the murders of kids always are. Did this one make any novel explorations of our society (like Once Were Warriors), or make a case for viewers to be outraged at the callous injustices of a corrupt system (e.g. Beyond Reasonable Doubt)?

                    Or did a depersonified Big Bad terrorise a small group of salt-of-the-earth noble characters, the survivors rallying together to recover from the tragedy?

                    In other words, was it thematically different from "a perfect storm", or even "2012" for that matter?

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      It explored true themes, but without distorting someone's actual truth.

                      Why would the exploration of "true themes" (?) be any less prone to distortion than the exploration of real events? Plenty of themes and real events are explored and discussed on The Standard.

                      Way to soon to explore the events and themes/memes of the Christchurch mosque massacres in a major movie, imho, but we explored them here almost in real time.

                      In other words, was it thematically different from "a perfect storm", or even "2012" for that matter?

                      Didn't see 'A Perfect Storm', but yes, quite different thematically to the '2012' fantasy, imho.


                    • McFlock

                      Why would the exploration of "true themes" (?) be any less prone to distortion than the exploration of real events?

                      Because 90 or 120 minutes is not long enough to accurately show a complete individual, let alone an ensemble. That's why so many movie characters are archetypes – the hero, the coward, the bad guy, the adventurer.

                      Lots of people met someone like Jake the Muss, sometimes even in themselves. Those themes permeate through New Zealand. Through that story, he had character development, an arc.

                      But so close to the actual events, firstly making the murderer a living human being who started out as a baby and somehow became the person that could do that thing? That would take more than 120 minutes and be all about him. So the bad guy has to be a caricature, not any different from "the neutrinos are mutating and warming the planet". The murderer is just a pretext for the obstacles our plucky heros have to overcome.

                      But then the people who were shot at and those who were responders, a movie close to the events can't develop them, either. Takes too long, and muddies who the audience is supposed to support (because it's entertainment). Maybe there's a token "coward" or "obstructive bureaucrat", but good luck giving any of them an arc. And then half the details will be changed, and characters chopped or amalgamated, and timelines confused, just to fit the story the movie makers want to tell.

                      So what's the value of any movie "based on real events"?

                      1. educating people that events actually happened (things that had been covered up at the time and shortly afterwards)
                      2. expose covered-up misconduct by the authorities
                      3. build public support if the things that happened still need to be addressed and answered for, especially by corrupt individuals still alive
                      4. throw some hollywood cash at people involved

                      I doubt any of those apply to most recent NZ events. Although a film about Pike River might uncover some stuff and embarrass some responsible parties, especially in regards to deals being cut and evidence being lost.

                      Plenty of themes and real events are explored and discussed on The Standard.

                      Nobody here is doing it for money. And it's a dialogue, not one final cut.

                      edit: and how many of those movies were based on events only a decade or two before, and then how many of those were anything other than hagiographies or propaganda? And then how many were any good?

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Because 90 or 120 minutes is not long enough to accurately show a complete individual, let alone an ensemble.

                      Agreed, that would take a lifetime. Is it possible to accurately portray a “true theme” that has been distilled from the experiences of real people in 90-120 minutes? Maybe you're asking/expecting too much.

                      Fwiw, I don't believe Sarkies set out to portray Gray as a "Big Bad"; rather some effort was made (early on) to help the audience get inside Gray's head, unsettling and demoralising (the banality of 'evil') as that was. Gray did murder four children, although these murders weren't shown on screen – imagine my disappointment.

                      Just finished watching another movie based on real events – the cleverly named 'BlacKkKlansman' (2018), directed by Spike Lee. Winner of the Grand Prix at the 2018 Cannes Film Festival, no less.

                      Imho, films based on real events are not inherently inferior to films that eschew the dramatisation of real events. They too can have value beyond their primary purpose of being sufficiently entertaining to make money. Fwiw, ‘entertaining’ is not the first adjective that comes to mind when I recall ‘Out of the Blue’.

                    • McFlock

                      Is it possible to accurately portray a “true theme” that has been distilled from the experiences of real people in 90-120 minutes?

                      The difference is that the director isn't selling anyone short or (in the opposite direction) idolising them. And in the case of Once Were Warriors, really making NZ have a look in the mirror.

                      BlacKkKlansman was a good movie, but played quite loosely with some of the facts and characters. But it also had a very clear warning for society, and told a little-known story.

                      What little-known story did you learn from the sarkies movie? What fundamental warning or message about society did it deliver?

                      Or did it simply take the audience on a little self-contained emotional journey with a cathartic resolution, and then everyone could go get a cup of tea?

                      Because the latter is purely entertainment. It might not be a comedy, but it is just entertainment. Using the pain of real people.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      Because the latter is purely entertainment. It might not be a comedy, but it is just entertainment. Using the pain of real people.

                      Adapting Robert Sarkies’ Film Out of the Blue: The At-Home and Abroad Reception of a New Zealand Tragedy
                      The film is based on a book written by Senior Sergeant Bill O’Brien, Aramoana: Twenty-Two Hours of Terror.

                      However, in the final analysis, I believe a film like Out of the Blue can give hope, although that may be the last descriptor most would attach to such subject matter, and clearly not simply at the level of breaking out of nationally-preconceived categories of genre. I say ‘hope’ because although Aramoana is the place where this tragedy happened (and Out of the Blue does not shy from this fact), it is also the place that survived that tragedy. It is, in the end, the place and the people that continue. No one is more aware of this, I would argue, than those who were touched by the events at Aramoana; Sarkies’ film manages to both represent and respect that.

                      I don't believe Out of the Blue is purely an entertainment and/or exploitative film. If you believe that it is, then we must agree to disagree – doubt that anyone who actually viewed the film could persuade you otherwise; just a waste of your time and mine.

                      Critics consensus (Rotten Tomatoes)
                      A dramatization of real-life terror that's rendered all the more powerful through its sensitivity, Out of the Blue succeeds as a gripping drama as well as a moving commemoration.

                      Out of the Blue (100 mins, 15) Directed by Robert Sarkies; starring Matthew Sunderland, Karl Urban, Lois Lawn, Simon Ferry

                      As a piece of film-making about an event that gripped a nation, Out of the Blue is altogether leaner and more gripping than Children of Glory. A documentary-style reconstruction of a small-town massacre that rocked New Zealand in 1990, the whole film takes place in 24 hours, as a crazy 33-year-old loner is tipped over the edge by being charged at his bank for cashing a cheque. Getting out an automatic weapon of a sort no private citizen should possess, he kills 13 people and wounds several others before being shot down. I'm not sure what Robert Sarkies's film tells us, but it is a memorable account of a community uniting under pressure.

                      Interesting that Simon Ferry, who was the artistic director of our local Centrepoint Theatre from 2005-2008, had a role in the film – you learn something new every day.

                      Fifteen years later I have such clear memories of Out of the Blue that I have no need, or wish to watch it again – but I'm glad that I did. Maybe one day I'll be able to bring myself to watch Once Were Warriors, and its sequels, too, but I doubt it. No interest in Nitram either – that film may focus more on events leading up to the Port Arthur massacre.

                    • McFlock

                      Jesus, even the critics you quote call it a "gripping drama" and "I'm not sure what Robert Sarkies's film tells us".

                      Blackkklansman has the first bit (as well as funny bits), but it's message was very clearly stated.

                      There's the difference.

                  • aj

                    Unlike you, I watched "Out of the Blue" – it wasn't an easy watch.

                    That was my experience as well.

                    I am against this Hollywood production. 'Out of the Blue' was a very sensitively made film (docudrama?) and focused on the people involved and the tragedy and heroism of that event. At the end of the film no-one moved or made a sound in the theatre until the credits ended.

                    I dread where this ne production is going to go. Our PM must feel very uncomfortable that her 'celebrity politician' position in the world is going to be prostituted in the name of Hollywood profit.

                    If they were to pledge 90% of profits to the rehabilitation of the victims of that event I might be slightly happier. But they haven't, they won't, and you cannot trust 'Hollywood accounting' anyway.

                    And it won't change the gun culture in the USA one jot. Sandy Hook didn't, so there is no hope for that country.

      • weston 3.1.2

        JA stepped up to the plate immediately and without reservation earning her a huge amount of credit in nz and around the world .As our prime minister what has the fact of her being white have to do with anything ?

        • mary_a

          @ weston (3.1.2) … I agree with your comments. Mentioning the fact that Jacinda Ardern being "a white woman" is quite unnecessary in the case you point out.

          IMHO I consider a movie about the massacre is disrespectful to those NZers suffering the rawness from the pain of the event, Besides, it is not a form of entertainment. For that reason alone I signed the petition. And I'm not "woke"!

    • Shanreagh 3.2

      Since when have we moved to the horrible US date style? The Chch terrorist attack took place on 15/3 ie 15th of March not 3/15.

    • RedLogix 3.3

      How fortunate we are to have such things to be outraged over. In the meantime Amnesty International have just released this report:

      Since 2017, under the guise of a campaign against “terrorism”, the government of China has carried out massive and systematic abuses against Muslims living in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (Xinjiang). Far from a legitimate response to the purported terrorist threat, the government’s campaign evinces a clear intent to target parts of Xinjiang’s population collectively on the basis of religion and ethnicity and to use severe violence and intimidation to root out Islamic religious beliefs and Turkic Muslim ethno-cultural practices. The government aims to replace these beliefs and practices with secular state-sanctioned views and behaviours, and, ultimately, to forcibly assimilate members of these ethnic groups into a homogenous Chinese nation possessing a unified language, culture, and unwavering loyalty to the Chinese Communist Party (CCP).

  4. joe90 4

    Sweet! We just need to move the moon…


    The Texas Republican congressman Louie Gohmert has asked a senior US government official if changing the moon’s orbit around the Earth, or the Earth’s orbit around the sun, might be a solution for climate change.

    Bizarrely, the question was not posed to anyone from Nasa or even the Pentagon. Instead it was asked of a senior forestry service official during a House natural resources committee hearing on Tuesday.


    • mac1 4.1

      Science Fiction has a lot to answer for. Send a special forces squad and use a large bomb- the solution to all problems.

      The question behind this man's ignorance is how did he get to his age and experience, and especially his position, with schooling, training, general knowledge etc- and still even consider that such a solution is possible?

      Shades of the vetting and selection procedures of our National Party version of the Republican Party, from Trump on down.

      And these men run hugely powerful states and governments?

      • ghostwhowalksnz 4.1.1

        US political parties dont 'vet' candidates, they hold primaries and registered voters decide who the 'party candidate' will be from a list of hopefuls. Its a very loose party loyalty system and they dont hold allegiance to the central party.

        The NY City democratic primary on June 22 for the later mayoral race has around 8 major candidates plus 5 others and around 10 'withdraws'

      • ghostwhowalksnz 4.1.2

        That sort of bizarre fantasy of the Texas Congressman is nothing compared to this now struck off Sydney Psychiatrist


        ''During a hearing into his mental state, McGregor told the medical council that if they had “any understanding of politics, you would understand that the beliefs that are actually put on the blog are actually the directives from President Trump”.When the council chair called to say his registration had been suspended, he called her a “filthy dirty fucking leftwing slut” and claimed she “knowingly used the power of political correctness to inflict woman to male intimidation and assault against [him]”.

        Qanon seems to reach right up to the people around Aussie PM Scott Morrison, and explained in a ‘delayed’ ABC Four Corners episode.

      • bwaghorn 4.1.3

        Almost makes injecting bleach to cure covid a good idea.

        • ghostwhowalksnz

          It seems that even in NZ there are currently a small number of GPs under investigation for spreading wacko anti-vaccine narratives.

      • greywarshark 4.1.4

        mac1 He was possibly –

        1 home schooled. 2 religious narrow schooling 3 a school were pupils challenge teachers about the correctness of their knowledge 4 a believer than technology is intrinsically good, man using it is the same, and it will solve every problem.

        • Macro

          My youngest daughter was home schooled, along with her friends. We ran a small home school for 6 children.

          She has recently served as deputy chairperson for the local community board and is currently writing. Her friend topped her class in Auckland med school and is now a psychiatrist. Another is an engineer, another is a farmer and qualified motor mechanic, another is the practise manager for a law firm. All have successful careers.

          • Incognito

            Brilliant response!

            Your spouse must be an amazing teacher wink

            • Macro

              Well yes she is – but I have to confess that I was the teacher laugh

              • Incognito

                Good on you heart

                The result is a reward for and confirmation of a ‘job’ well done. I’m sure your daughter and her friends will pass it on and spread the love.

                • Macro

                  It was towards the final time of 30+ years in education, in state and private teaching from primary to tertiary, from chalk-face to administration.

                  We realised our daughter was never going to succeed in her state school education, and a different direction was needed. I became involved with the small class of 6 after a couple of years. The move had been very successful for her, but the initial teacher was moving on, and that meant that someone new had to take over. I have to say it was the most enlightening and most enriching teaching experience of my whole career. Our first main lesson was the English novel. Previously I had taught Maths and Physics and Computing Studies! Then followed, The French Revolution, A Play – Bernard Shaw's "Major Barbara", Art , Colonisation, Communication, and a host of others. I learnt as much as the children, and when that happens you know you are on the right path.

                  • Incognito

                    Yup, education and parenthood are not one-way streets and both ‘sides’ become a unit of learning, (self-)discovery, and development.

                  • RedLogix

                    Interesting. Both my children went through the Steiner system which isn't the same as home-schooling I know, but definitely steps outside of the standard curriculum.

                    One of my pet ideas is that subjects should be taught as a rough historic progression, the idea being that the order in which humanity as a whole discovered new ideas is not a bad starting point to also teach children. Giving them a sense of how and when ideas first arose and how they changed the world – embedding history into every curricula as it where – whether it be a science, humanity or art, always struck me as potentially interesting and engaging. Almost certainly this isn't an original idea I'd think, but I've never seen it discussed anywhere.

                    • Descendant Of Smith

                      It's one of the reasons I really enjoyed a couple of books. Each gave you a sense of how X couldn't happen until A B and C had.

                      1. Descartes Error – Antonio Damasio

                      2. Seeing Further: The Story of Science and the Royal Society – Bill Bryson

      • Andre 4.1.5

        Astonishingly, it's probably not the stupidest thing he's said in Congress. I mean, simple ignorance is sufficient to explain asking that kind of question. I've worked with plenty of people on manufacturing floors that were plenty bright with good problem solving skilz, but were never educated, and might have asked a similar question.

        But there are plenty of other occasions he's verbally covered himself in feces on topics where he has allegedly been educated and should know better.

        Take your pick:



    • Anne 4.2

      joe90 @4

      The agony of the ignorant.

  5. Muttonbird 5

    The flying coffin, aka the Robinson helicopter, claims more victims. Hope everyone recovers well.


    • ghostwhowalksnz 5.1

      Yes, I saw that. The pictures show clearly the rotor has cut the tail section clean off…as they do. They will say its pilot error and but its a repeated error as that is the main reason they crash in NZ . Will the Aviation Safety stand up to the vested interests and Robinson and ban this type for its design issues. Aviation Safety had an appalling record of bad culture and lax oversight of the helicopters and light planes , but have recent shakeups changed anything

  6. Incognito 6

    Is Simon Bridges trying to score cheap political points again? Did he call the Police or was he too busy tweeting it?


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