I thought all the front line people were supposed to be vaccinated months ago? Why is it taking so long when the border is so important. Simple solution is when employees turn up to start their shift, if they can’t show anything to say they are vaccinated, then they are sent home on unpaid leave.
Covid 19 coronavirus: Securing the weakness at the border … by October – NZ Herald
Most kiwis seem to have this view that we are happy to wait because COVID hasn’t got into the community. I don’t really know anyone who is overly anxious to get it. Its simply a case of when its my turn, I will. Fucking crazy view but thats New Zealand for you.
But I agree. It should simply be mandatory for border workers.
If you’d taken the trouble to watch the PMs post cabinet news conference rather than eagerly consume the pure anti-government propaganda from the Herald your questions would be answered.
It was claimed by someone on Q&A (I think) that a lot of those not vaccinated are casual port workers. I don’t know how it works, but Covid has likely reduced the number of ships entering our smaller ports so some of these people may not have been working on the wharves for some time. Hence they have missed vaccination opportunities.
Could just be waiting for the next generation vaccine in order to lower the risk to themselves. Nothing wrong with putting yourself first, especially when we know that in the unlikely event things do go wrong you have no insurance cover and a really shit welfare system for the most dependent (mildly impaired are treated much better).
Our current mRNA vaccine doesn’t confer sterilised immunity, meaning transmission can still take place so any community benefit is highly questionable. Here is an actual expert (more like an expert of experts imho) talking about just how risky that strategy could be.
Highly questionable, huh. Underlining and everything, too. Sounds bad. “30 minutes of my life” bad? I guess I’ll never find out.
Being able to ask questions is a bit like transmission still being able to take place: the important factors are not the binary absolutism of existence, but how many and how significantly.
Dunno if it specifically rebuts what’s said in that goldbugger doomie-prep grifter Martenson’s woo-tube clip. I’m not going to waste 30 minutes to watch it to find out.
Not really correct.
Transmission can still take place – yes. The probability of it happening is severely reduced because the immune responses in a vaccinated host kill off a exponential growth in released viruses.
R5 drops down to something like R0.02 even with delta according to the last set of results I looked at.
Basically the only people who get infected are likely to be the unvaccinated. It means that people who can’t take vaccines will keep having to protect themselves. Those who choose to not take the vaccine get a genetic winnowing. Not really any one else’s problem – apart from their family and friends.
Personally I will be pretty unlikely to want to work close to someone who chooses not to vaccinated. They just increase my risks.
As far as I can tell, the only real contraindication for the Pfizer vaccine is allergic history. And even for those unfortunates, if they’re brave enough to risk an anaphylactic reaction in the knowledge that the medical staff around them will be able to safely deal with it, it’s fine to get the vaccine. Or I would hope here in NZ they would get offered one of the alternatives that doesn’t carry that allergic risk.
Immunocompromised people can apparently quite safely get the Pfizer vaccine. There’s no kind of organism replication going on that has to suppressed by a functioning immune system. The injected mRNA just does its thing, breaks down, and the detritus gets cleaned away by our body’s regular garbage disposal system.
It’s just that immunocompromised people are much less likely to get benefit from the vaccine. Since by definition, the vaccine stimulates and trains the immune system, but immunocompromised people have a low to non-functioning immune system. So they are still mostly dependent on the rest of us getting vaccinated for their protection via community immunity.
The other problem with unvaccinated people getting sick is the effect it has on the medical staff that end up trying to care for them. My rellies overseas are now finding it much tougher psychologically trying to keep an unvaccinated covid sufferer alive now that they’ve had the opportunity to get vaccinated and declined. Because that suffering is just so pointlessly stupid and so easily, cheaply, and safely avoidable.
Yeah, I felt that after I wrapped my head around the issue.
The focus for me was a intelligent fellow worker talking to me recently about a meta-study on an alternative treatment for covid-19. I read it and from what he’d said deduced (correctly) that he’d mistaken a reliability of what was measured for a reliability of the effectiveness of the treatment.
Very small sample sizes, a lot of variation in measurement in the studies, inconsistencies in how the treat was delivered, etc etc meant that the authors assessment of the reliability of the instances in the studies only got up to ‘Moderate’, and many were ‘Very Low’. Moderate was OK for data reliability, but it isn’t midway – it is barely acceptable.
The largest aggregate sample size was ~1500 for having had the treatment giving death / non-death (ie everyone in the study). And the change on the statistically expected death results was around 5% inside the sample of all people getting the treatment. Maybe verging on significance for something. But given the way the data was collected – probably more significant for evidence of wishful thinking.
The treatment was been given as a Hail Mary by medical staff who had noting else to give. You’d probably find that aspirin or a source of clean water was more effective. “Coke adds life!” could be the new slogan..
Afterwards I found that personally I would have a personal reluctance to be anyone who thinks like that after I’d been vaccinated. He’d provide a perfect vector for a new variant to infect me, and the probability was that he’d do it over and over again. His obvious wish to avoid the vaccine was likely to be a clear and present danger to my health – and my taxes.
That doesn't surprise me. It felt like much of the data used was like a Peter Singer paper on climate change – designed to confuse the credulous who are irrationally unskeptical and prefer to just jump to conspiracy conclusions.
It appeared that the authors had run entire paragraphs from press releases and websites about ivermectin and Covid-19 through a thesaurus to change key words. “Humorously, this led to them changing ‘severe acute respiratory syndrome’ to ‘extreme intense respiratory syndrome’ on one occasion,” Lawrence said.
The data also looked suspicious to Lawrence, with the raw data apparently contradicting the study protocol on several occasions.
“The authors claimed to have done the study only on 18-80 year olds, but at least three patients in the dataset were under 18,” Lawrence said.
“The authors claimed they conducted the study between the 8th of June and 20th of September 2020, however most of the patients who died were admitted into hospital and died before the 8th of June according to the raw data. The data was also terribly formatted, and includes one patient who left hospital on the non-existent date of 31/06/2020.”
What is the threshold for a second-generation vaccine being considered safe enough? After all, there will be less data on a second generation than a first, simply because it’s newer. Maybe better wait for a third, or fourth generation …
Meanwhile, in the actual world, we’re at about a year from the start of the phase 3 trials for the Pfizer and moderna mRNA vaccines. Meaning we’ve got a year of safety data for thousands of intensely monitored volunteers. We’re at about 6 months from the mass rollout, so we’ve got safety data for hundreds of millions of vaccinated people, with safety monitoring that has now detected several different kinds of “less than ten per million” side effects.
Almost all of those extremely rare vaccine side effects resolve in at most a few weeks without causing permanent damage or disability.
Unlike actual covid, which causes many many long term disabilities (we don’t know how long-term, but definitely many people are still debilitated 18 months after infection) as well as death for about 1% of those infected.
With the mRNA vaccines, it will be transcription ‘code’ to get the body cells to produce fragments of signature virus coating or other characteristics. This gets the immune system to become accustomed to attacking those signatures. This would be a separate booster shot after the original vaccine to target a specific new variant.
No mixed in other biological. Minimal or no updates to the vaccine production, transports or delivery. Mostly what they will be looking for is interactions with other conditions – ie either effectiveness or complications.
A much easier test case using the existing or similar test structures. Targeting populations who are already vaccinated and possibly subject to reinvention with a specific c
variant.
The Pfizer vaccine booster just announced as being developed is just targeting delta. I would guess that if lamda takes off then that will be next.
My comment about second generation being safe enough was aimed at KSaysHi suggesting some unvaccinated people are waiting for more safety information or for a newer purportedly safer vaccine to be released.
From the comments made by academic family and friends that need a deep understanding of cell biochemistry for their science jobs, I have zero concerns about long term safety issues with the mRNA vaccines.
The development of mRNA vaccines over the last few decades has also been long enough and careful enough to cover all the concerns I had when I first heard about the technology. Yes, there were serious obstacles to learn how to overcome, including severely problematic immune system reactions. But those reactions were seen within a very short time after vaccination, and there has been no hint of safety problems popping up months or years after vaccination.
I have zero concerns about long term safety issues with the mRNA vaccines
I’d take them over normal vaccines any time.
I have quibbles about the probable misuses of the technology though. I’d imagine that it will eventually be used as a perfect way to cause unexplained deaths. A lot harder to trace than polonium from an umbrella.
Given we no longer allow low skilled migrant labour in, maybe its time we allowed those here already here to shift from these jobs to others – such as in dairy, or horticulture. Then employers would have to offer these jobs to locals who have the option of moving from job to job, if conditions and wages are not competitive.
listening to a kiwi bank economist predicting wage inflation today and I thought of these low skilled/paid seasonal jobs that would probably require a substitution of improved wages and conditions to attract others available.
A big issue is accommodation as well. Moving for short-term work means you either give up your accommodation where you are or you pay for two lots at the same time. There is a big risk in giving up where you are now that you might not be able to find accommodation when you return home.Most people have little interest in living in a tent/back-packers/caravan for a few months. Cooking meals after a days work becomes problematic as well even if you do do this.Moving for a permanent full-time job is another kettle of fish entirely.
The migrant currently trapped in their job and earning little more than the food power and rent money may welcome the opportunity – seasonal work jobs can lead to permanent employment, and dairy farm jobs come with housing.
The jobs the migrants leave can be filled by locals – albeit the employer would have to improve pay and conditions to attract them.
The migrants may find little left after paying rent in the urban centres – they can at least save in the seasonal work jobs and the dairy farm work often comes with provided housing.
Assuming its an NZ flagged vessel I hope worksafe are investigating this.
As i understand it two crew were allowed to enter NZ and without 14 days quarintine travel to and join the vessel. Thats endangered the entire crew and if one were to die surely whoever is in charge of the boat should be in the gun for prosecution.
Hmm, hired to fish NZ quota? Would worksafe have jurisdiction?
The fact that we let the crew avoid quarantine to meet the vessel shows the influence the fishing lobby have. I feel very sorry for the crew members who have been exposed and infected thanks to irresponsible bosses. If we can prosecute we should.
Interesting how various sites set hurdles for you to jump before they will reveal any clear information. This one with a grey curtain over the page until you comply with something.
If it is Spain, then perhaps it is from the north. IIRR that area has received great concessions and subsidies from the Spanish govt to build fishing vessels which have tended to swamp the fishing industry. I wonder if they then provide jobs for Spanish, especially Catalan crew.
That all Peter chch usually seems to be able to do (in my experience). A lower form of existence who is just intelligent enough recognise that he is very ignorant, is too lazy to do anything about it, and likes having a good persecution fetish.
Generally pays to either be ignored. If you want a bit of a amusement you can spank him so that he can writhe in a foul ecstasy at being patted by a dom (his secret shame). But given his disadvantages (namely his personality), if you’re feeling kind – simply being excluded works.
Of course that is just my opinion. (yes he is usually a troll).
A troll? No. It may appear that i am, as i certainly do disagree with many opinions on here, but I would absolutely agree with the goals of most on here.
It is not, for me, an argument about the goals. Its an argument about the means. If that makes me a troll, well you are wrong. But so be It.
I’m not into spanking, more into whipping, actually.
I don’t care whether you are a troll or not. I do care about the fact that some (…) of your comments are troll-like enough to appear on my radar. I couldn’t possibly comment on a persecution fetish that you might have.
Here’s a tip, more like advice, actually: if you don’t want to appear on the radar of Moderators and/or SYSOP, lift the quality of your comments and make it look like you’re engaging in good faith here, irrespective of whether your opinion is widely agreed or disagreed with (AKA unpopular) here – robust debate is the kaupapa of this site. Put simply: lift your game, thanks.
The choice is yours; the whip is within reach, always.
Incognito. I am no troll. Yes I disagree with many posts on here. I, in my opinion, am a socialist. I, again in my opinion, engage in good faith. Same goals I think, but different means.
But let’s be honest. Many people on TS are a little unrealistic as what might work or stick.
I try to engage in good faith, but some just give abuse in response.
All this talk about whipping and spanking! Well, my partner and I went to a ‘bar’ off K road which sounded nice. The entrance fee seemed a bit steep but we were under drink. Full on sex club. Unbelievable .We enjoyed our time there. Did not partake. But I must, opened my eyes.
The vicious cycle of the climate crisis has merged with a vicious cycle of inequity in the region. Racial disparities in access to shade and air conditioning are increasingly becoming dangerous, even deadly….
…..Farm workers die of heat at roughly 20 times the national rate, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
The antieviction thing has always favored certain elements in our society. They get higher levels of subsidies from those who can’t get social housing. Consequences are experienced by everyone who is nearby but not the cause of the issues and that has got to stop.
The witness alleges he is being subjected to regular nighttime gang intimidation and threats.
He also told Hawke’s Bay Today that Kāinga Ora had told him his request was low priority.
However, a Kāinga Ora spokesperson told Hawke’s Bay Today that the organisation was now “moving quickly to help our customer and provide options from which they can choose to help keep them safe”.
“We’ll continue to work with police on this matter too.”
That’s right….help the tenant to help himself by making choices! How empowering [sarc]
How to knife your ‘clients’ and your very job in the back! A ‘librarian’ sending books owned to be digitised instead of going all-out to support the excellent system we have of reading physical books, the whole literate and skilled community behind it, and the way that books encouraging imagination, discussion, are housed in places that draw communities, and are artifacts that represent humanity and serve it, in a way that bloody tech doesn’t (whether covered in red stuff or not, and of course that description is an oxymoron because tech is bloodless and dead). Stream of consciousness?
I have written a short comment on Daily Review for Mon. 12/7. This went up at 10.22am with awaiting moderation, then vanished so I sent another one after it at 10.37am, same message, has vanished also. Nothing controversial about either of them. So where, what?
Moderation
Moderation is mainly used to control spam comments that do not get caught by the anti-spam tools. This means that you might get caught in it if you use some words, have an IP range that overlaps a spam source, or your IP comes from certain geographical regions.
…
If you get moderated and don’t have a good reason why, don’t get too alarmed. It is probably the spam trap. Usually your message will get approved shortly, but sometimes during weekends and overnight it may take a while.
United States citizens and companies are buying up New Zealand land for farming, forestry and wine-making, an RNZ analysis reveals.
Almost 180,000 hectares of farming land was purchased or leased by foreign interests between 2010 and 2021.
During the 11-year period almost 460,000ha – a little under the size of the Auckland region – shifted out of New Zealand control through purchases, leases or rights to take forestry. For simplicity’s sake, this is referred to as bought land throughout this article.
More than 70,000ha of land was bought for dairying operations and more than 100,000 for farming other types of animals, such as beef, sheep or deer.
It seems that farming entities have control of the country, so no wonder we can’t get anything done for ordinary people, who now can’t even own a tiny bit of land! Perhaps Bill Sutch had to be headed off, with the way that he was encouraging us to make new pathways, go in new directions, explore other options. Think.
State Republican lawmakers around the country are pushing bills — at least one of which has become law — that would give unvaccinated people the same protections as those surrounding race, gender and religion.
If this was happening in countries where vaccinations had plateaued, like Israel, meaning just about everyone that wanted to be vaccinated had already been jabbed, then I’d take a darwinian view of it. But in most of those countries, vaccinations are still happening at a good clip, meaning there’s still lots of people that want to be vaccinated that haven’t got it yet. So opening up to let things run wild in those countries is just barbaric.
Citation please, I couldn’t see anything referring to that in your link.
Also, England, Spain, Netherlands, Portugal which have covid spikes also have high rates of vaccinated persons too… which could mean there’s an association there.
It’s plausible that high vaccination rates might precipitate a premature relaxation (aided and abetted by imprudent leaders) of precautionary behaviours that curb infection transmission, which could in turn contribute to the recent spikes in Covid variant delta infections seen in England, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands and Greece.
It’s even possible that the act of gathering in vaccination centres might (very slightly) increase transmission from infected to uninfected people.
But is there’s any scientifically plausible way that the Covid-19 vaccines themselves, administered in England, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands and Greece, could contribute directly to the recent ‘yikes spikes‘ graphed @12?
They also need to be named, shamed, and excluded have special units built in concrete (hoseable) in industrial areas where they can be kept under curfew at night. simple bedding and facilities suitable for the half-crazed person.
That’s dealt with the present crop. The ones coming forward can be changed by their parents entering a program run under suitable cultural levels that assists parents in their role, helps them as needed, and enables them to have a happy life bringing up children in a kindly and firm way with goals for the parents and little ones for the children, like pocket money for doing tasks as part of family life. This outrageous system actually had been proved to work many decades ago, but has fallen into disuse, now needing revival. And those in the system would be offered free skills training, and on completion a job and income equal to a living wage. Also holidays at adventure camps once or twice a year. Incentives, in-sense-activities! If a significant percentage could be enthused to start this, with parents as role models, in ten years there would be a difference growing exponentiallly.
Disabled kids missing out at local schools is well documented, just as parents paying for extra teacher aide hours is common practice because of the limited resources governments past and present put in to ensuring disabled kids get a fair go.
Where the heck is the Human Rights Commission when it comes to this problem that’s been around now for decades? Governments for years have been saying that disabled children have access to the same learning opportunities as all other students, but we know that’s not true. Schools themselves say they’re woefully under-resourced.
All the rhetoric around how well the system’s working for disabled students shows how far the government’s head is buried in the sand. It beggars belief that despite everything we know this government’s now preventing parents topping up teacher aide hours, as if it isn’t needed. It’s a tragedy, of course, that it’s only the kids of those who can afford to do this who have access to crucial resources, but to now ban parents from doing this shows just how sensitive the government is to the criticisms. The government’s position on this whole issue is just diabolical.
In 2008, IHC lodged a complaint with the Human Rights Commission, arguing that children with a range of disabilities experience discrimination at their local school.
…
n April 2014 IHC’s legal counsel, Frances Joychild QC, filed an amended claim with the Human Rights Review Tribunal.
…
In early 2015, the Human Rights Review Tribunal held a preliminary hearing into the complaint after the Attorney General applied to strike out several of IHC’s claims. Two and a half years later we are still awaiting a decision from that preliminary hearing. Confidential discussions about the complaint between IHC, the Ministry of Education, the Education Review Office, and the Education Council over four days in 2016 failed to reach a settlement.
The legal case is effectively stalled until the preliminary decision is released by the Human Rights Review Tribunal, then IHC will be in a queue for a hearing that may be years away. The delay is because the Tribunal is very thinly resourced and has experienced a huge rise in cases in recent years. Despite IHC raising this backlog with the Minister of Justice, no action has been taken to address it.
It’s preposterous that the government is even defending this. Full access to the curriculum for disabled students is government policy, so surely one would think that when instances of discrimination arise government would welcome guidance on how to combat it. But no, ‘all litigation must be defended even if we agree with the claims made against us’ – such a silly attitude to take. This surely must be a situation where the parties should get the declaration by consent, and then work together to stamp out the discrimination? Anything other than this highlights the government’s two-faced position on disabled kids’ access to education, and the reality of it being quite happy with the status quo.
so SUFW put up a sign saying “women, adult human female” and it gets taken down.
on another post I put up a video clip of a women in California complaining cause a trans women was naked with their penis out in a women’s spa around women and girls.
we as women are supposed to put up with the latter while there is an outcry leading to the removal of a sign with the dictionary definition of women. WTF!
if this concerns you even a little do think of going to the SUFW talk this Thursday 6 30pm at the Michael Fowler centre
It seems that the new aristocrats can push the peasants off their commons again. Sexuality now is not something that you have as a mainstream bodily natural condition, its a matter of choice now in the disintegrating society of the 21st century. Nothing can be relied on that once was sure.
And the fact that Christians and right wingers are said to be involved in SUFW (Speak up For Women) doesn’t lend it lustre, but for once they have a point.
Yes I am aware the private spa was/is inclusive of trans people. I think trans people should be allowed to attend a spa. But not in the women’s only space.
But a lot of women and the mothers of girls were very uncomfortable with a trans women, naked with their penis out in a women’s private space.
Do you not understand why that is? Do you think women and girls just have to suck it up? Why should women have to accommodate to something they are uncomfortable with?
Why can you not understand that it is a private business and so they can have whatever policy they like. They could choose to have no gendered areas. Why should you get to bully them into your way of thinking?
Solkta, I have not been in contact with the Wi spa. So it is incorrect to suggest that I am bullying them.
In NZ under the human rights act, it specifies that women have the right to private change room facilities for public decency and safety.
As a woman I am defending my right for this to persist. And some of women are feeling bullied to give up this human right, should trans activists require us to give up our private spaces.
You are part of the international whinge fest so yes you are indirectly bullying them. But apparently that is OK but not for people with an opposing view to complain to an advertising company.
Afaik California law forces Wi Spa to allow male bodied people into the women’s section if the male bodied person identifies are a woman. I’m still unclear if the trans woman has to have a GRC or can simply say at that reception that they are a woman. I’m guessing in practice it’s the latter. What this means is that if someone in California set up a spa for women only, they would be legally and socially prohibited from excluding male bodied people who ID as women (TW or men).
“They could choose to have no gendered areas.”
Afaik Wi Space separates their spaces by sex not gender, so they already have no gendered spaces. If they had gendered spaces, there’d be a non-binary or GNC space. Which is a not a bad idea alongside single sex spaces.
Obviously being all mixed sex spaces wouldn’t work for a Korean spa that has cultural practices of nakedness segregated by sex. And equally obviously it doesn’t work for many women.
I haven’t been able to figure out what the California statue says exactly, tried reading it myself and couldn’t make sense of it.But if you are saying that TW are allowed entry to the women’s space on the basis of gender not sex, are you saying that TW are not female?
“In a statement to Los Angeles about this weekend’s incident, Wi Spa points to California Civil Code 51 (b), which makes discriminating against trans and other gender non-conforming people in business establishments illegal in the state.”
“(b) All persons within the jurisdiction of this state are free and equal, and no matter what their sex, race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, medical condition, genetic information, marital status, sexual orientation, citizenship, primary language, or immigration status are entitled to the full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges, or services in all business establishments of every kind whatsoever.”
…
(e) For purposes of this section:
…
(5) “Sex” includes, but is not limited to, pregnancy, childbirth, or medical conditions related to pregnancy or childbirth. “Sex” also includes, but is not limited to, a person’s gender. “Gender” means sex, and includes a person’s gender identity and gender expression. “Gender expression” means a person’s gender-related appearance and behavior whether or not stereotypically associated with the person’s assigned sex at birth.
(6) “Sex, race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, medical condition, genetic information, marital status, sexual orientation, citizenship, primary language, or immigration status” includes a perception that the person has any particular characteristic or characteristics within the listed categories or that the person is associated with a person who has, or is perceived to have, any particular characteristic or characteristics within the listed categories.”
Looks like there are no laws to protect single sex spaces.
“There is no specific legislation that mandates for single-sex spaces and there are no laws that protect, for example, single-sex bathrooms or locker rooms in public places. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 has a provision for sex-segregated bathrooms, but the regulatory agency produced regulations on “gender-separated” bathrooms instead.”
That particular stature is basic non-discrimination. So a business isn’t allowed to refuse service on those grounds. Doesn’t say what facilities people are supposed to use.
It looks to me like a bit of the old “not my rule, it’s [the widest possible interpretation of] the law, sorry about that [not really sorry because I wanted it to happen anyway]”. Every bouncer who’s worked a door knows a variation of that one.
Heh. Bit of a language issue there.I suspect (and I can’t emphasise that enough, this just seems to me to be a plausible way out to stop being the battleground of a global political shitfight) that Wi Spa are interpreting that specific legislation to mean that while they might be able to stop “men” going into the “womens'” section, they’re not entitled to discriminate against transmen and transwomen.
However, some websites say that for employees there should be single-occupant gender neutral facilities available for people who want additional privacy, but nobody can be forced to use them. I.e. trans people can use whatever one they want, and if someone has a problem with it then the person with the problem has an alternative.
I was thinking more generally, that if there is no law protecting single sex spaces and there is a law protecting people from discrimination on the basis of sex (assuming Ca legislators still actually know what sex is), then is there anything to stop men from going into women’s spaces?
In the UK, there is law against discrimination but there are also exemptions where warranted. This is what gives legal right to women’s spaces, even excluding TW with a gender recognition cert afaik.
It’s this exemption that Stonewall UK has been lying about in its advice to orgs that it sanctions as trans friendly, and Stonewall has been lobbying to have the exemptions removed. (that’s how I understand it). This is at the heart of the whole shit fight (although not the whole of it)
NZ law seems to be similar but haven’t looked at it closely.
So yes, men can be stopped from going into women’s restrooms. But there would be exceptions to that if your definition of “men” includes transwomen, because that does not match the definition of “men” as a subset of “sex” according to the Californian legislature.
Interesting. Wi Spa might have been right in it being the law (depending on what actually happened).
if we put aside toilets for a moment, and look at other women’s spaces, my reading of the above is that there is no law that says there is an exemption for women from the anti-discrimination laws (except where other laws have been created eg the restroom one) eg women’s refuges or someone running a women’s health group. Men could legally try to access those spaces and not be denied on the basis of sex. This is of course bizarre and it won’t surprise me if I am reading this wrong, but we are talking about the US.
And yes, my understanding is that Wi Spa acted in accordance with Ca law. What I don’t know is whether self ID happens in the Wi Spa reception or if someone has to have a state certification of gender ID. The thing pertinent to NZ here is that no-one currently is going to ask for the certificate at the reception desk, even if they think the person is a man. Self ID as a technical approach to birth cert changes shifts the overton window so that self ID becomes a matter of what the person says in the moment across society. How left wing people can believe this won’t be abused by men is beyond me.
(And as above, crazy fucking language in the Ca legislation).
As you say, there might be other laws or case law that we, as NZ googlers, might not know about.
As for your final point, sure some guy will try it sooner or later. There’s no limit to the arseholery of humanity. But at the same time, using one of the innumerable other ways to refuse service to an individual you don’t like the look of is not discrimination on the basis of gender self-id, especially if your establishment is trans-accepting.
And that’s if one argues that all one needs for gender self-id is for me to yell “I’m a girl now” to go wherever I want. If I did that wearing a three piece suit with not so much as a doctor’s appointment to talk about transitioning or what have you, the honesty of my claim could well be challenged. And being America, I’d be surprised if it hasn’t (especially as at the NZ uni I worked at a local dickhead for years kept trying to run for womens’ rights officer, and complained about sex discrimination because we wouldn’t let him). It’s quite rare for a loophole that obvious to exist for years without being tested and then patched in response to the test.
then they should tell their female customers that they can no longer provide single sex spaces. California law prohibits them from excluding trans women, and any men that ID as a woman, from the women’s space. I’m under the impression that many women don’t know this. Likewise in NZ if the govt passes self ID law without consulting women. We will end up with social changes that most NZers don’t realise is happening. That alone should be a red flag.
The Adult, Human, Female banner is on point about that.
Go Media’s general manager, Simon Teagle, told 1 NEWS it removed the billboard as soon as it started fielding calls from offended New Zealanders.
“We believe it maybe in breach of ASA codes, and therefore the advertising material in breach of our contract. We have subsequently notified the advertiser. We have placed the contract with the advertiser on hold until a clear determination from the ASA is provided.
“Go Media is an inclusive, locally-owned New Zealand business and we support all communities. While we believe in freedom of speech, we do not condone content that upsets our community. We apologise unreservedly for any distress this may have caused anyone, and remedied the situation as soon we could.”
The Conversation is ‘helping’ NZ get informed about sea level rise in a study co-led by Tim Naish and Richard Levy called the NZ SeaRise programme.
These two men are glaciologists and may be looking at the changing earth over the last 40 million years. I suggest that they lack the urgency of those worrying about whether they are going to be hit by a combination of seal level rise, storm surge and increased ground water arising from a heavy rain ‘event’ around their house, and just as importantly on the business decisions of their insurers and their actuaries. However if they can get some good theoretical statistics for the insurers, that will be most useful.
Most people still use the word woman to mean female. In English we don’t usually call women females except in specific situations. I wouldn’t for instance say see those two females standing over there, I’d say see those two women standing over there.
Scratching my head at that. Where’s the dishonesty? Women and trans women, it’s really simple. I want women to be able to retain single sex spaces. I want trans women to have access to their own spaces. I will support them to have that in society.
I’m not sure why you say there is dishonestly in my position when you seem to be presenting a semantic argument around the words female and woman. Maybe I’m missing something?
I’m not absolutist about eg I’m fine with TW using whatever toilet works for them. But we need to have the debate openly about what this means, and how it impacts on women as well as trans people. That’s where the dishonesty is currently, and the attacks on SUFW will just make that worse.
I also want to exclude men (males), from those single sex spaces.
What I and many women are also not willing to do is give up language that we need to talk about our own experiences, especially politically.
The way you are using woman and trans woman does not make sense. Woman is the noun and cis and trans are adjectives, they name an attribute of the noun. Woman is the set and cis woman and trans woman are subsets. If you think the term “woman” should be reserved for females then you should object to the use of “trans woman”. It is really simple, basic level grammar.
it does make sense in that you understood exactly what I meant. As most people will also understand exactly what I meant because that’s how English is used and understood in context.What you are saying is that how I am using language doesn’t suit your politics. If you want to change current use of the English language for political reasons, then stand up and make the argument.
My problem with your position is that what you are saying sits alongside women being told they’re not allowed to talk about being female as well. This is why many women who were once ok with sharing more with trans women, are now insisting on retaining the meaning of the word woman for adult human females. eg refusing to be seen as a subset. Trans woman is a noun.
Maybe you are unaware then of the volatile political context in which you are arguing that woman should no longer mean adult female.
As I said, make the political argument.
My grammar is perfectly understandable and in line with common usage. You are arguing to change that usage, but I’m not yet seeing the argument for why.
‘New Zealander’ is used to mean white person and then for all other varieties an adjective is added.
Ok, but that’s identity not ethnicity. I know very few people that use ‘New Zealander’ to mean white. It’s not used that way in law, media, education, science, medicine, or every day language. Most people I know when talking about biologically female people would use the word woman in most contexts, and this is still the main usage in law, media, education, science, medicine.
And again, if you want to change the meaning of the word woman for political reasons, front up and make the political argument to society at large and let us have a conversation about it. Challenge the no debate position, and let people talk about it.
Simply saying, or just implying, it’s bigotry to not use it the way you want is a democratic fail.
. I know very few people that use ‘New Zealander’ to mean white. It’s not used that way in law, media, education, science, medicine, or every day language.
But it happens enough to occasionally skew data gathered in those fields. Back when using paper forms, “NZ European / Pakeha” scribbled out and “NEW ZEALANDER!!!” carved into the page with biro was not uncommon. And it happened enough on the census in the early oughts that statsnz had to crank out an analysis on it (the rest of the forms mostly matched those of pakeha middle aged male mid-high income small business owners, from what I recall).
But I suspect the parallel isn’t each term’s use in administrative paperwork so match as the use in public by some smaller groups to dogwhistle to the converted and to try to spread their message of alienation.
Solkta and McFlock have explained it adequately. I am no longer prepared to indulge people who want a 101 level conversation about a topic they supposedly know about.
Sacha, you can correct me all you like, but I am sticking with the language I am comfortable with.
I believe biological sex trumps gender ideology. I believe trans gender people deserve the same rights as anyone else, but that doesn’t include the right to have me agree to their language requirements.
I am a biological women. Always have been always will be. I am not a cis women, just a women.
trans used to be referred to as transvestites or trans sexual. I understand they want to be referred to as trans men and women and that is fine by me. They have a right to identify as the opposite gender to their natal sex, no problem.
if a transgender individual asks me to use their pronouns, out of courtesy I would likely do my best to remember to do that. If they demanded I did, maybe not so much, it would depend.
women’s rights to private spaces and to women only sporting competitions are set out in the Human Rights Act 1993 and I will defend those rights vigorously
I have just read a book by Anne Perry set around rape of women and the difficulties of them at that time, in the 1890s, being safe from it, and being able to look for control and justice. because of the deep disgust felt by everybody in society about it, and the way they tended to include the victim in these emotions. In the first fifty or so pages she describes the problem well. It's 'Midnight at Marble Arch' and is quite a complicated plot, with a number of themes.
And to try and understand what women think about sex, there are two novellists specialising in stories which often have a soft porn centre, who seem to be popular, Jude Deveraux and Linda Howard. Men might learn something about women's ideas, and women might ponder on what these books indicate is missing in their lives.
…it has a restricted jurisdiction which must not be abused: it is not an inquisitionNOTE – this article was published before the High Court ruled that Karen Chhour does not have to appear before the Waitangi Tribunal Gary Judd writes – The High Court ...
Lindsay Mitchell writes – One of reasons Oranga Tamariki exists is to prevent child neglect. But could the organisation itself be guilty of the same?Oranga Tamariki’s statistics show a decrease in the number and age of children in care. “There are less children ...
David Farrar writes: Graeme Edgeler wrote in 2017: In the first five years after three strikes came into effect 5248 offenders received a ‘first strike’ (that is, a “stage-1 conviction” under the three strikes sentencing regime), and 68 offenders received a ‘second strike’. In the five years prior to ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has surprised everyone with his ruthlessness in sacking two of his ministers from their crucial portfolios. Removing ministers for poor performance after only five months in the job just doesn’t normally happen in politics. That’s refreshing and will be extremely ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the two days to 6:06am on Thursday, April 25:Politics: PM Christopher Luxon has set up a dual standard for ministerial competence by demoting two National Cabinet ministers while leaving also-struggling ...
Hi,Today I mainly want to share some of your thoughts about the recent piece I wrote about success and failure, and the forces that seemingly guide our lives. But first, a quick bit of housekeeping: I am doing a Webworm popup in Los Angeles on Saturday May 11 at 2pm. ...
It is hard to see what Melissa Lee might have done to “save” the media. National went into the election with no public media policy and appears not to have developed one subsequently. Lee claimed that she had prepared a policy paper before the election but it had been decided ...
Open access notablesIce acceleration and rotation in the Greenland Ice Sheet interior in recent decades, Løkkegaard et al., Communications Earth & Environment:In the past two decades, mass loss from the Greenland ice sheet has accelerated, partly due to the speedup of glaciers. However, uncertainty in speed derived from satellite products ...
Buzz from the Beehive A statement from Children’s Minister Karen Chhour – yet to be posted on the Government’s official website – arrived in Point of Order’s email in-tray last night. It welcomes the High Court ruling on whether the Waitangi Tribunal can demand she appear before it. It does ...
Mr Bombastic:Ironically, the media the academic experts wanted is, in many ways, the media they got. In place of the tyrannical editors of yesteryear, advancing without fear or favour the interests of the ruling class; the New Zealand news media of today boasts a troop of enlightened journalists dedicated to ...
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Mike Grimshaw writes – The recent announcement of the University Advisory Group, chaired by Sir Peter Gluckman, makes very clear where the Government’s focus and priorities lie. The remit of the Advisory Group is that Group members will consider challenges and opportunities for improvement in the university sector including: ...
Eric Crampton writes – The Reserve Bank of New Zealand desperately wants to find reasons to have workstreams in climate change. It makes little sense. They’ve run another stress test on the banks looking to see if they could find a prudential regulation case. They couldn’t. They ...
Rob MacCullough writes – Pundits from the left and the right are arguing that National’s Fast Track Bill that is designed to speed up infrastructure decisions could end up becoming mired in a cesspool of corruption. Political commentator ...
Looking at the headlines this morning it’s hard to feel anything other than pessimistic about the future of humanity.Note that I’m not speaking about the future of mankind, but the survival of our humanity. The values that we believe in seem to be ebbing away, by the day.Perhaps every generation ...
Swabbing mixed breed baby chicks to test for avian influenzaUh oh. Bird flu – often deadly to humans – is not only being transmitted from infected birds to dairy cows, but is now travelling between dairy cows. As of last Friday, Bloomberg News reports, there were 32 American dairy herds ...
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What is it with the mining industry? Its not enough for them to pillage the earth - they apparently can't even be bothered getting resource consent to do so: The proponent behind a major mine near the Clutha River had already been undertaking activity in the area without a ...
Photo # 1 I am a huge fan of Singapore’s approach to housing, as described here two years ago by copying and pasting from The ConversationWhat Singapore has that Australia does not is a public housing developer, the Housing Development Board, which puts new dwellings on public and reclaimed land, ...
Buzz from the Beehive Reactions to news of the government’s readiness to make urgent changes to “the resource management system” through a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) suggest a balanced approach is being taken. The Taxpayers’ Union says the proposed changes don’t go far enough. Greenpeace says ...
I’m starting to wonder if Anna Burns-Francis might be the best political interviewer we’ve got. That might sound unlikely to you, it came as a bit of a surprise to me.Jack Tame can be excellent, but has some pretty average days. I like Rebecca Wright on Newshub, she asks good ...
Chris Trotter writes – Willie Jackson is said to be planning a “media summit” to discuss “the state of the media and how to protect Fourth Estate Journalism”. Not only does the Editor of The Daily Blog, Martyn Bradbury, think this is a good idea, but he has also ...
Graeme Edgeler writes – This morning [April 21], the Wellington High Court is hearing a judicial review brought by Hon. Karen Chhour, the Minister for Children, against a decision of the Waitangi Tribunal. This is unusual, judicial reviews are much more likely to brought against ministers, rather than ...
Both of Parliament’s watchdogs have now ripped into the Government’s Fast-track Approvals Bill. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāMy pick of the six newsey things to know from Aotearoa’s political economy and beyond on the morning of Tuesday, April 23 are:The Lead: The Auditor General,John Ryan, has joined the ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Sarah SpengemanPeople wait to board an electric bus in Pune, India. (Image credit: courtesy of ITDP) Public transportation riders in Pune, India, love the city’s new electric buses so much they will actually skip an older diesel bus that ...
The infrastructure industry yesterday issued a “hurry up” message to the Government, telling it to get cracking on developing a pipeline of infrastructure projects.The hiatus around the change of Government has seen some major projects cancelled and others delayed, and there is uncertainty about what will happen with the new ...
Hi,Over the weekend I revisited a podcast I really adore, Dead Eyes. It’s about a guy who got fired from Band of Brothers over two decades ago because Tom Hanks said he had “dead eyes”.If you don’t recall — 2001’s Band of Brothers was part of the emerging trend of ...
Buzz from the Beehive The 180 or so recipients of letters from the Government telling them how to submit infrastructure projects for “fast track” consideration includes some whose project applications previously have been rejected by the courts. News media were quick to feature these in their reports after RMA Reform Minister Chris ...
It would not be a desirable way to start your holiday by breaking your back, your head, or your wrist, but on our first hour in Singapore I gave it a try.We were chatting, last week, before we started a meeting of Hazel’s Enviro Trust, about the things that can ...
Calling all journalists, academics, planners, lawyers, political activists, environmentalists, and other members of the public who believe that the relationships between vested interests and politicians need to be scrutinised. We need to work together to make sure that the new Fast-Track Approvals Bill – currently being pushed through by the ...
Feel worried. Shane Jones and a couple of his Cabinet colleagues are about to be granted the power to override any and all objections to projects like dams, mines, roads etc even if: said projects will harm biodiversity, increase global warming and cause other environmental harms, and even if ...
Bryce Edwards writes- The ability of the private sector to quickly establish major new projects making use of the urban and natural environment is to be supercharged by the new National-led Government. Yesterday it introduced to Parliament one of its most significant reforms, the Fast Track Approvals Bill. ...
Michael Bassett writes – If you think there is a move afoot by the radical Maori fringe of New Zealand society to create a parallel system of government to the one that we elect at our triennial elections, you aren’t wrong. Over the last few days we have ...
Without a corresponding drop in interest rates, it’s doubtful any changes to the CCCFA will unleash a massive rush of home buyers. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: The six things that stood out to me in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, poverty and climate on Monday, April 22 included:The Government making a ...
Sunday was a lazy day. I started watching Jack Tame on Q&A, the interviews are usually good for something to write about. Saying the things that the politicians won’t, but are quite possibly thinking. Things that are true and need to be extracted from between the lines.As you might know ...
In our Weekly Roundup last week we covered news from Auckland Transport that the WX1 Western Express is going to get an upgrade next year with double decker electric buses. As part of the announcement, AT also said “Since we introduced the WX1 Western Express last November we have seen ...
TL;DR: The six key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to April 29 include:PM Christopher Luxon is scheduled to hold a post-Cabinet news conference at 4 pm today. Stats NZ releases its statutory report on Census 2023 tomorrow.Finance Minister Nicola Willis delivers a pre-Budget speech at ...
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The ability of the private sector to quickly establish major new projects making use of the urban and natural environment is to be supercharged by the new National-led Government. Yesterday it introduced to Parliament one of its most significant reforms, the Fast Track Approvals Bill. The Government says this will ...
This is a column to say thank you. So many of have been in touch since Mum died to say so many kind and thoughtful things. You’re wonderful, all of you. You’ve asked how we’re doing, how Dad’s doing. A little more realisation each day, of the irretrievable finality of ...
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Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
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Minister for Disability Issues Penny Simmonds appears to have delayed a report back to Cabinet on the progress New Zealand is making against international obligations for disabled New Zealanders. ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
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Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
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Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
The Government is today releasing a list of organisations who received letters about the Fast-track applications process, says RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop. “Recently Ministers and agencies have received a series of OIA requests for a list of organisations to whom I wrote with information on applying to have a ...
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Wellington Barrister David Jonathan Boldt as a Judge of the High Court, and the Honourable Justice Matthew Palmer as a Judge of the Court of Appeal. Justice Boldt graduated with an LLB from Victoria University of Wellington in 1990, and also holds ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford will lead the New Zealand delegation at the 2024 International Summit on the Teaching Profession (ISTP) held in Singapore. The delegation includes representatives from the Post Primary Teachers’ Association (PPTA) Te Wehengarua and the New Zealand Educational Institute (NZEI) Te Riu Roa. The summit is co-hosted ...
A stopbank upgrade project in Tairawhiti partly funded by the Government has increased flood resilience for around 7000ha of residential and horticultural land so far, Regional Development Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones today attended a dawn service in Gisborne to mark the end of the first stage of the ...
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters will represent the Government at Anzac Day commemorations on the Gallipoli Peninsula next week and engage with senior representatives of the Turkish government in Istanbul. “The Gallipoli campaign is a defining event in our history. It will be a privilege to share the occasion ...
Science, Innovation and Technology and Defence Minister Judith Collins will next week attend the OECD Science and Technology Ministerial conference in Paris and Anzac Day commemorations in Belgium. “Science, innovation and technology have a major role to play in rebuilding our economy and achieving better health, environmental and social outcomes ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos Jr. The Prime Minister was accompanied by MP Paulo Garcia, the first Filipino to be elected to a legislature outside the Philippines. During today’s meeting, Prime Minister Luxon and President Marcos Jr discussed opportunities to ...
The Government has announced that $20 million in funding will be made available to Westport to fund much needed flood protection around the town. This measure will significantly improve the resilience of the community, says Local Government Minister Simeon Brown. “The Westport community has already been allocated almost $3 million ...
The Government is proud to support the first ever Repco Supercars Championship event in Taupō as up to 70,000 motorsport fans attend the Taupō International Motorsport Park this weekend, says Economic Development Minister Melissa Lee. “Anticipation for the ITM Taupō Super400 is huge, with tickets and accommodation selling out weeks ...
Local Government Minister Simeon Brown has announced an increase to the Rates Rebate Scheme, putting money back into the pockets of low-income homeowners. “The coalition Government is committed to bringing down the cost of living for New Zealanders. That includes targeted support for those Kiwis who are doing things tough, such ...
The Coalition Government is investing in a project to boost survival rates of New Zealand mussels and grow the industry, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones has announced. “This project seeks to increase the resilience of our mussels and significantly boost the sector’s productivity,” Mr Jones says. “The project - ...
Benefit figures released today underscore the importance of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy and have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker Support, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “Benefit numbers are still significantly higher than when National was last in government, when there was about 70,000 fewer ...
The Government’s commitment to doubling New Zealand’s renewable energy capacity is backed by new data showing that clean energy has helped the country reach its lowest annual gross emissions since 1999, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. New Zealand’s latest Greenhouse Gas Inventory (1990-2022) published today, shows gross emissions fell ...
The Government is bringing the earthquake-prone building review forward, with work to start immediately, and extending the deadline for remediations by four years, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Our Government is focused on rebuilding the economy. A key part of our plan is to cut red tape that ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and his Thai counterpart, Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin, have today agreed that New Zealand and the Kingdom of Thailand will upgrade the bilateral relationship to a Strategic Partnership by 2026. “New Zealand and Thailand have a lot to offer each other. We have a strong mutual desire to build ...
RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Transport Minister Simeon Brown have today announced the Coalition Government’s intention to extend port coastal permits for a further 20 years, providing port operators with certainty to continue their operations. “The introduction of the Resource Management Act in 1991 required ports to obtain coastal ...
Today’s announcement that inflation is down to 4 per cent is encouraging news for Kiwis, but there is more work to be done - underlining the importance of the Government’s plan to get the economy back on track, acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “Inflation is now at 4 per ...
Refreshed health guidance released today will help parents and schools make informed decisions about whether their child needs to be in school, addressing one of the key issues affecting school attendance, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. In recent years, consistently across all school terms, short-term illness or medical reasons ...
Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones is streamlining high-level oceans management while maintaining a focus on supporting the sector’s role in the export-led recovery of the economy. “I am working to realise the untapped potential of our fishing and aquaculture sector. To achieve that we need to be smarter with ...
I was initially resistant to the idea often suggested to me that the Government should deliver an arts strategy. The whole point of the arts and creativity is that people should do whatever the hell they want, unbound by the dictates of politicians in Wellington. Peter Jackson, Kiri Te Kanawa, Eleanor ...
Associate Agriculture Minister Mark Patterson is speaking at the International Wool Textile Organisation Congress in Adelaide, promoting New Zealand wool, and outlining the coalition Government’s support for the revitalisation the sector. "New Zealand’s wool exports reached $400 million in the year to 30 June 2023, and the coalition Government ...
A poem from Robin Peace’s new collection Detritus of Empire: feather / grass / rock. Cereal giving I see a woman’s hands, see her curious hands break a stalk as she walks through the tall prairie, the savannah, the steppe, wherever it was. See her idly bite the grass that ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Hemingway’s Goblet by Dermot Ross (Mary Egan Publishing, $38)A handsomely produced (debossed cover, lovely ...
The Commissioner's decision validates the longstanding efforts of the local community and ensures that Awataha Marae will be managed to serve the needs of the local community, particularly for hosting tangihanga. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tristan Salles, Associate professor, University of Sydney Examples of Australian landscapes.Unsplash Seventy thousand years ago, the sea level was much lower than today. Australia, along with New Guinea and Tasmania, formed a connected landmass known as Sahul. Around this time – ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Felicity Castagna, Lecturer, Creative Writing, Western Sydney University Day Day Market, ParramattaPhoto: Garry Trinh I live on the edge of Parramatta, Australia’s fastest-growing city, on the kind of old-fashioned suburban street that has 1950s fibros constructed in the post-war housing boom, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Ryan, Teaching Fellow in Economics, University of Waikato GettyImagesfatido/Getty Images There is an ongoing global debate over whether the high inflation seen in the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic can be lowered without a recession. New Zealand is not ...
The ‘Wicked Game’ heartthrob is in his late 60s now. That didn’t stop him putting on a lively, goofy and very sparkly show. Apart from ‘Wicked Game’, which graces a sultry playlist of mine simply called 💋, my last sustained Chris Isaak listening session took place when I was about ...
Analysis - Two ministers were stripped of portfolios in a warning to Cabinet, drama broke out at the Waitangi Tribunal, and the gang patch ban bill ran into opposition. ...
Tara Ward makes an impassioned plea for some vital pop culture merch. In April 1999, I became obsessed with a new reality television show called Popstars. Every Tuesday night, five strangers transformed into music royalty before my very eyes as Joe, Keri, Carly, Erika and Megan were chosen to form ...
PNG Post-Courier In the early hours of ANZAC Day, aerial photographs captured an impressive gathering of Australians and Papua New Guineans at Isurava in the Northern (Oro) Province. The solemn dawn service yesterday was held at a site steeped in history, where some of the fiercest battles of World War ...
The PSA is shocked that Oranga Tamariki has used the cost cutting drive to downgrade its commitment to Te Ao Māori and remove many specialist Māori roles. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Kemish, Adjunct Professor, School of Historical and Philosophical Inquiry, The University of Queensland There can be no more powerful symbol of the relationship between Australia and Papua New Guinea than the prime ministers of these neighbouring countries walking together on the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sharon Robinson, Distinguished Professor and Deputy Director of ARC Securing Antarctica’s Environmental Future (SAEF), University of Wollongong, University of Wollongong Andrew Netherwood Over the last 25 years, the ozone hole which forming over Antarctica each spring has started to shrink. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Viktoria Kahui, Senior Lecturer in Environmental Economics, University of Otago Getty Images/Amy Toensing Biodiversity is declining at rates unprecedented in human history. This suggests the ways we currently use to manage our natural environment are failing. One emerging concept focuses on ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Timothy Colin Bednall, Associate Professor in Management, Swinburne University of Technology marvent/Shutterstock Finding the best person to fill a position can be tough, from drafting a job ad to producing a shortlist of top interview candidates. Employers typically consider information from ...
Wondering where to host your next BYO? Whether its a small gathering or a massive party, we’ve got some recommendations. I was first introduced to the concept of BYOs at Dunedin’s India Gardens, a legendary but sadly defunct establishment, which purveyed enormous quantities of mango chicken to Aotearoa’s drunkest future ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Julien Cooper, Honorary Lecturer, Department of History and Archaeology, Macquarie University Julien Cooper The hyper-arid desert of Eastern Sudan, the Atbai Desert, seems like an unlikely place to find evidence of ancient cattle herders. But in this dry environment, my new ...
The sector says it’s hopeful her replacement Paul Goldsmith will be able to throw it a lifeline, after six months with a minister deemed missing in action, writes Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign ...
The government can't just rely on axing public sector jobs and has to do more to cut spending, says the chief economist at a free market think tank. ...
Rock The Vote NZ, known for its advocacy for minor party unity and its role within the Freedoms NZ Coalition during the 2023 General Election, celebrates this merger as a strategic enhancement of its operational strength and outreach. ...
Nearly everyone has experienced the frustration of something you use breaking and being difficult or expensive to fix. Proposed legislation could change that. It’s been raining on and off all Sunday afternoon but people are lining up outside a building in a corner of Gribblehirst Park in Sandringham, Auckland. In ...
What does a forever relationship look like when you don’t believe in marriage? And how do you celebrate it? This essay is part of our Sunday Essay series, made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.I’m going to do it, right now. I’m going to say ...
The Prime Minister has committed to resuming direct flights to Thailand. But it’s not a promise he will be able to deliver on anytime soon. The post Prime Minister jumps the gun in Thailand appeared first on Newsroom. ...
It’s not that long ago Eliza McCartney was seriously wondering if the Paris Olympics would be her pole vaulting swansong. After years of being hounded by injury after injury, the Rio Olympics bronze medallist was still confident she would compete at her second Olympics in Paris in July, unless something ...
FICTION 1 Take Two by Danielle Hawkins (Allen & Unwin, $36.99) There’s commercial fiction, like this book, and then there’s quality fiction, quality writers, quality literature; the forthcoming Auckland Writers Festival is full of quality, and ReadingRoom has two tickets to give away to the following events: Paul Lynch (Dublin ...
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You can’t have missed the Gallipoli story as the movies, documentaries, essays and books capture what it was like for New Zealand troops in their eight-month campaign on the Peninsula. But this Anzac Day the Auckland War Memorial Museum has published a book that sheds light on a little-known aspect of the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra In the free-for-all between the Australian government and Big Tech boss Elon Musk this week, the government had to be on a winner. Most people would have little sympathy with Musk’s vociferous opposition to ...
Asia Pacific Report Chief Mandla Mandela, a member of the National Assembly of South Africa and Nelson Mandela’s grandson, has joined the Freedom Flotilla in istanbul as the ships prepare to sail for Gaza, reports Kia Ora Gaza. Mandela is also the ambassador for the Global Campaign to Return to ...
Pacific Media Watch Journalists who report on environmental issues are encountering growing difficulties in many parts of the world, reports Reporters Without Borders. According to the tally kept by RSF, 200 journalists have been subjected to threats and physical violence, including murder, in the past 10 years because they were ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards, Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)Political scientist, Dr Bryce Edwards. Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has surprised everyone with his ruthlessness in sacking two of his ministers from their crucial portfolios. Removing ministers for poor performance after only five months in the job just doesn’t normally happen in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra BagzhanSadvakassov/Upsplash, CC BY-SA Australia’s inflation rate has fallen for the fifth successive quarter, and it’s now less than half of what it was back in late 2022. ...
ACT's Rural Communities and Veterans spokesman Mark Cameron responds to cancellations and protests of ANZAC Day commemorations in Wellington. He says, "These pitiful attempts to detract from ANZAC Day are not at all indicative of the feelings of mainstream ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Meighen McCrae, Associate Professor of Strategic & Defence Studies, Australian National University American and Australian stretcher bearers working together near the front line during the Battle of Hamel in 1918.Australian War Memorial While the AUKUS alliance is new, the Australian-American partnership ...
Pōneke based peace activists staged a silent protest at the ANZAC day service to highlight New Zealand’s complicity in war and genocide, and urge the government to take concrete steps to stop the genocide in Palestine. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Magdalena M.E. Bunbury, Postdoctoral Researcher, James Cook University Burial with a horse at the Rákóczifalva site, Hungary (8th century AD).Sándor Hegedűs, Hungarian National Museum, CC BY How do we understand past societies? For centuries, our main sources of information have been ...
Amanda Thompson doesn’t really do Anzac Day. But what she does do is remember the people she knew who had a lifetime to remember stuff they didn’t really want to, because of a war they didn’t ask for. And she does make Anzac biscuits.First published in 2021.All my ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kathryn Willis, Postdoctoral Researcher, CSIRO Xavier Boulenger/Shutterstock In the two decades to 2019, global plastic production doubled. By 2040, plastic manufacturing and processing could consume as much as 20% of global oil production and use up 15% of the annual carbon ...
With our collective remembrance, and steadfast belief in our common humanity, we strengthen our hope and resolve to do what we can to foster dialogue and understanding, and to heal divisions in our pursuit of peace. ...
Principal reasons for the opposition is the loss of the public’s democratic right to have “a fair say” and the vital need for a government free from corruption, said Casey Cravens of Dunedin, president of the New Zealand Federation of Freshwater ...
Never mind the scoreboard – in the 2000 Bledisloe Cup decider, the real trans-Tasman battle was won before kickoff.First published in 2016. The dawn of the new millennium was a dark time for the All Blacks. Their final game pre-Y2K was a 22-18 loss to South Africa in the ...
I’m on the wrong side of 40, I never pursued creative work and now my job is killing my soul. Help! Want Hera’s help? Email your problem to helpme@thespinoff.co.nzDear Hera,May I start with the least original conversation opener you’re likely to hear around the motu at the moment, particularly in Wellington: ...
“Never again - No AUKUS” was the message of the wreath laid at this morning’s national ANZAC Day commemorative service at Pukeahu National War Memorial Park this morning by the Stop AUKUS group. ...
Until this month, Auckland swimmer Hazel Ouwehand had never met a qualifying time in an Olympic event for a New Zealand team, even as a junior. Now she’s very likely off to the Paris Olympics after swimming well under the qualifying standard in the 100m butterfly twice – both in ...
While Anzac Day has experienced a resurgence in recent years, our other day of remembrance has slowly faded from view.The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand. Original illustrations by Hope McConnell.First published in 2022.The high school’s head girl and ...
Australian and New Zealand volunteers fought together in the Waikato War, yet still its place in the Anzac tradition is unacknowledged by our defence forces or Returned Services Association.First published in 2018.When I was a boy cub I attended Anzac Day services in the South Auckland suburb of ...
A poem by Wellington writer Tayi Tibble.Hoki Mai She kisses him goodbye with her eyes still wet and alight from their last swim in the Awatere river. At the train station celebration, she leads the Kapa Haka but her voice keeps breaking under and over itself like waves. ...
A poem from Bill Manhire’s 2017 book of verse Some Things to Place in a Coffin.My World War I Poem Inside each trench, the sound of prayer. Inside each prayer, the sound of digging. Image courtesy of Auckland War Memorial Museum. ...
There are three books I have wolfed down in one sitting over the last two years. Colleen Maria Lenihan’s gorgeous and sad debut Kōhine, Noelle McCarthy’s memoir Grand about becoming her mother and then unbecoming her, and now Hine Toa, a staunch yet gentle self-portrait by living legend Ngāhuia te ...
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Asia Pacific Report Students and activist staff at Australia’s University of Sydney (USyd) have set up a Gaza solidarity encampment in support of Palestinians and similar student-led protests in the United States. The camp was pitched as mass graves, crippled hospitals, thousands of civilian deaths and the near-total destruction of ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James B. Dorey, Lecturer in Biological Sciences, University of Wollongong Australian teddy bear bees are cute and fluffy, but get a look at that massive (unbarbed) stinger! James Dorey Photography Most of us have been stung by a bee and we ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jen Roberts, Senior Lecturer, School of Humanities and Social Inquiry, University of Wollongong Aussie~mobs/FlickrVictor Farr, a private in the 1st Infantry Battalion, was among the first to land at Anzac Cove just before dawn on April 25 1915. Victor Farr ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Gregory Moore, Senior Research Associate, School of Ecosystem and Forest Sciences, The University of Melbourne Gregory Moore I had the good fortune to care for the sugar gum at The University of Melbourne’s Burnley Gardens in Victoria where I worked for ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra BagzhanSadvakassov/Upsplash, CC BY-SA Australia’s inflation rate has fallen for the fifth successive quarter, and it’s now less than half of what it was back in late 2022. ...
Pick your favourite;
A: First billionaire in space
Or,
B: First dog on the moon
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/09/i-hate-to-say-it-but-it-looks-like-the-age-of-fossil-fuels-will-end-in-the-next-few-years?
I thought all the front line people were supposed to be vaccinated months ago? Why is it taking so long when the border is so important. Simple solution is when employees turn up to start their shift, if they can’t show anything to say they are vaccinated, then they are sent home on unpaid leave.
Covid 19 coronavirus: Securing the weakness at the border … by October – NZ Herald
Complacency.
Most kiwis seem to have this view that we are happy to wait because COVID hasn’t got into the community. I don’t really know anyone who is overly anxious to get it. Its simply a case of when its my turn, I will. Fucking crazy view but thats New Zealand for you.
But I agree. It should simply be mandatory for border workers.
Knowing all the reasons why frontline workers are not vaccinated is what I want to know.
Is it being redeployed, not wanting the vaccine, the roll out, being absent, complacency?
The vaccine is not 100 per cent.
If you’d taken the trouble to watch the PMs post cabinet news conference rather than eagerly consume the pure anti-government propaganda from the Herald your questions would be answered.
The ZB Taliban at the Herald is running a stridently nakedly anti-government agenda, I wonder how the likes of Simon Wilson (who utterly excoriates national in todays paper https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/simon-wilson-judith-collins-leadership-is-1-year-old-and-its-time-her-party-grows-up/5W6IB5MNXBNKWEYHHHZTY2UINI/ – paywalled) can square working for the paper these days.
It was claimed by someone on Q&A (I think) that a lot of those not vaccinated are casual port workers. I don’t know how it works, but Covid has likely reduced the number of ships entering our smaller ports so some of these people may not have been working on the wharves for some time. Hence they have missed vaccination opportunities.
Just a possible reason.
Could just be waiting for the next generation vaccine in order to lower the risk to themselves. Nothing wrong with putting yourself first, especially when we know that in the unlikely event things do go wrong you have no insurance cover and a really shit welfare system for the most dependent (mildly impaired are treated much better).
Nothing wrong with putting yourself first, indeed. As the scripture says:
Our current mRNA vaccine doesn’t confer sterilised immunity, meaning transmission can still take place so any community benefit is highly questionable. Here is an actual expert (more like an expert of experts imho) talking about just how risky that strategy could be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjMZvpmuaKY
Highly questionable, huh. Underlining and everything, too. Sounds bad. “30 minutes of my life” bad? I guess I’ll never find out.
Being able to ask questions is a bit like transmission still being able to take place: the important factors are not the binary absolutism of existence, but how many and how significantly.
An expose of some of vanden Bossche’s dodgy claims.
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking-pseudoscience/doomsday-prophecy-dr-geert-vanden-bossche
Dunno if it specifically rebuts what’s said in that goldbugger doomie-prep grifter Martenson’s woo-tube clip. I’m not going to waste 30 minutes to watch it to find out.
Not really correct.
Transmission can still take place – yes. The probability of it happening is severely reduced because the immune responses in a vaccinated host kill off a exponential growth in released viruses.
R5 drops down to something like R0.02 even with delta according to the last set of results I looked at.
Basically the only people who get infected are likely to be the unvaccinated. It means that people who can’t take vaccines will keep having to protect themselves. Those who choose to not take the vaccine get a genetic winnowing. Not really any one else’s problem – apart from their family and friends.
Personally I will be pretty unlikely to want to work close to someone who chooses not to vaccinated. They just increase my risks.
As far as I can tell, the only real contraindication for the Pfizer vaccine is allergic history. And even for those unfortunates, if they’re brave enough to risk an anaphylactic reaction in the knowledge that the medical staff around them will be able to safely deal with it, it’s fine to get the vaccine. Or I would hope here in NZ they would get offered one of the alternatives that doesn’t carry that allergic risk.
Immunocompromised people can apparently quite safely get the Pfizer vaccine. There’s no kind of organism replication going on that has to suppressed by a functioning immune system. The injected mRNA just does its thing, breaks down, and the detritus gets cleaned away by our body’s regular garbage disposal system.
It’s just that immunocompromised people are much less likely to get benefit from the vaccine. Since by definition, the vaccine stimulates and trains the immune system, but immunocompromised people have a low to non-functioning immune system. So they are still mostly dependent on the rest of us getting vaccinated for their protection via community immunity.
The other problem with unvaccinated people getting sick is the effect it has on the medical staff that end up trying to care for them. My rellies overseas are now finding it much tougher psychologically trying to keep an unvaccinated covid sufferer alive now that they’ve had the opportunity to get vaccinated and declined. Because that suffering is just so pointlessly stupid and so easily, cheaply, and safely avoidable.
Yeah, I felt that after I wrapped my head around the issue.
The focus for me was a intelligent fellow worker talking to me recently about a meta-study on an alternative treatment for covid-19. I read it and from what he’d said deduced (correctly) that he’d mistaken a reliability of what was measured for a reliability of the effectiveness of the treatment.
Very small sample sizes, a lot of variation in measurement in the studies, inconsistencies in how the treat was delivered, etc etc meant that the authors assessment of the reliability of the instances in the studies only got up to ‘Moderate’, and many were ‘Very Low’. Moderate was OK for data reliability, but it isn’t midway – it is barely acceptable.
The largest aggregate sample size was ~1500 for having had the treatment giving death / non-death (ie everyone in the study). And the change on the statistically expected death results was around 5% inside the sample of all people getting the treatment. Maybe verging on significance for something. But given the way the data was collected – probably more significant for evidence of wishful thinking.
The treatment was been given as a Hail Mary by medical staff who had noting else to give. You’d probably find that aspirin or a source of clean water was more effective. “Coke adds life!” could be the new slogan..
Afterwards I found that personally I would have a personal reluctance to be anyone who thinks like that after I’d been vaccinated. He’d provide a perfect vector for a new variant to infect me, and the probability was that he’d do it over and over again. His obvious wish to avoid the vaccine was likely to be a clear and present danger to my health – and my taxes.
I saw that the major contributor paper to that meta study just got redacted over what essentially looks like made up data.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns
That doesn't surprise me. It felt like much of the data used was like a Peter Singer paper on climate change – designed to confuse the credulous who are irrationally unskeptical and prefer to just jump to conspiracy conclusions.
What is the threshold for a second-generation vaccine being considered safe enough? After all, there will be less data on a second generation than a first, simply because it’s newer. Maybe better wait for a third, or fourth generation …
Meanwhile, in the actual world, we’re at about a year from the start of the phase 3 trials for the Pfizer and moderna mRNA vaccines. Meaning we’ve got a year of safety data for thousands of intensely monitored volunteers. We’re at about 6 months from the mass rollout, so we’ve got safety data for hundreds of millions of vaccinated people, with safety monitoring that has now detected several different kinds of “less than ten per million” side effects.
Almost all of those extremely rare vaccine side effects resolve in at most a few weeks without causing permanent damage or disability.
Unlike actual covid, which causes many many long term disabilities (we don’t know how long-term, but definitely many people are still debilitated 18 months after infection) as well as death for about 1% of those infected.
With the mRNA vaccines, it will be transcription ‘code’ to get the body cells to produce fragments of signature virus coating or other characteristics. This gets the immune system to become accustomed to attacking those signatures. This would be a separate booster shot after the original vaccine to target a specific new variant.
No mixed in other biological. Minimal or no updates to the vaccine production, transports or delivery. Mostly what they will be looking for is interactions with other conditions – ie either effectiveness or complications.
A much easier test case using the existing or similar test structures. Targeting populations who are already vaccinated and possibly subject to reinvention with a specific c
variant.
The Pfizer vaccine booster just announced as being developed is just targeting delta. I would guess that if lamda takes off then that will be next.
My comment about second generation being safe enough was aimed at KSaysHi suggesting some unvaccinated people are waiting for more safety information or for a newer purportedly safer vaccine to be released.
From the comments made by academic family and friends that need a deep understanding of cell biochemistry for their science jobs, I have zero concerns about long term safety issues with the mRNA vaccines.
The development of mRNA vaccines over the last few decades has also been long enough and careful enough to cover all the concerns I had when I first heard about the technology. Yes, there were serious obstacles to learn how to overcome, including severely problematic immune system reactions. But those reactions were seen within a very short time after vaccination, and there has been no hint of safety problems popping up months or years after vaccination.
I’d take them over normal vaccines any time.
I have quibbles about the probable misuses of the technology though. I’d imagine that it will eventually be used as a perfect way to cause unexplained deaths. A lot harder to trace than polonium from an umbrella.
So aprox 5% are not yet vaccinated? New employees, those who can not? seems pretty good really Jimmy.
Pigs in Space
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=SN0wK-wXqY0&feature=emb_logo
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
Given we no longer allow low skilled migrant labour in, maybe its time we allowed those here already here to shift from these jobs to others – such as in dairy, or horticulture. Then employers would have to offer these jobs to locals who have the option of moving from job to job, if conditions and wages are not competitive.
listening to a kiwi bank economist predicting wage inflation today and I thought of these low skilled/paid seasonal jobs that would probably require a substitution of improved wages and conditions to attract others available.
A big issue is accommodation as well. Moving for short-term work means you either give up your accommodation where you are or you pay for two lots at the same time. There is a big risk in giving up where you are now that you might not be able to find accommodation when you return home.Most people have little interest in living in a tent/back-packers/caravan for a few months. Cooking meals after a days work becomes problematic as well even if you do do this.Moving for a permanent full-time job is another kettle of fish entirely.
The migrant currently trapped in their job and earning little more than the food power and rent money may welcome the opportunity – seasonal work jobs can lead to permanent employment, and dairy farm jobs come with housing.
The jobs the migrants leave can be filled by locals – albeit the employer would have to improve pay and conditions to attract them.
The migrants may find little left after paying rent in the urban centres – they can at least save in the seasonal work jobs and the dairy farm work often comes with provided housing.
Yesty arvo on RNZ, there was a great interview with Kasey Edwards about raising girls who will like themselves.
Most of what I heard can be applied to boys.
What is proposed builds self regard and resilience (something that seems to be unfashionable in parenting nowadays).
Sorry, hard to link via my batfone.
Sounds like a good idea!! https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2018803627/raising-girls-who-like-themselves-with-kasey-edwards
Thanks Grey.
This is it. This shitty little rust bucket is what we’re jeopardising our Covid free country for:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/446778/covid-19-13-more-positive-cases-on-quarantined-fishing-vessel-viking-bay
13 plus 2 positive cases – how many crew on that rust bucket? What a miserable existence..
15 in total now tested positive
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-health-officials-to-give-update-as-13-mariners-test-positive/GQKVJPA6VHLTWVTGNNB4SZD7MU/
Assuming its an NZ flagged vessel I hope worksafe are investigating this.
As i understand it two crew were allowed to enter NZ and without 14 days quarintine travel to and join the vessel. Thats endangered the entire crew and if one were to die surely whoever is in charge of the boat should be in the gun for prosecution.
No – Spain. https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:3434693/mmsi:224342000/imo:9221516/vessel:VIKING_BAY
Hmm, hired to fish NZ quota? Would worksafe have jurisdiction?
The fact that we let the crew avoid quarantine to meet the vessel shows the influence the fishing lobby have. I feel very sorry for the crew members who have been exposed and infected thanks to irresponsible bosses. If we can prosecute we should.
And there is another one – Spanish flagged Playa Zahara.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/125732764/ship-due-to-arrive-at-port-taranaki-with-crew-suffering-from-flulike-illness
Interesting how various sites set hurdles for you to jump before they will reveal any clear information. This one with a grey curtain over the page until you comply with something.
If it is Spain, then perhaps it is from the north. IIRR that area has received great concessions and subsidies from the Spanish govt to build fishing vessels which have tended to swamp the fishing industry. I wonder if they then provide jobs for Spanish, especially Catalan crew.
I guess the extreme left ‘No Borders’ concept is dead then.
I guess that you’re trolling.
That all Peter chch usually seems to be able to do (in my experience). A lower form of existence who is just intelligent enough recognise that he is very ignorant, is too lazy to do anything about it, and likes having a good persecution fetish.
Generally pays to either be ignored. If you want a bit of a amusement you can spank him so that he can writhe in a foul ecstasy at being patted by a dom (his secret shame). But given his disadvantages (namely his personality), if you’re feeling kind – simply being excluded works.
Of course that is just my opinion. (yes he is usually a troll).
Spank him? Interesting I have never tried that.
A troll? No. It may appear that i am, as i certainly do disagree with many opinions on here, but I would absolutely agree with the goals of most on here.
It is not, for me, an argument about the goals. Its an argument about the means. If that makes me a troll, well you are wrong. But so be It.
I’m not into spanking, more into whipping, actually.
I don’t care whether you are a troll or not. I do care about the fact that some (…) of your comments are troll-like enough to appear on my radar. I couldn’t possibly comment on a persecution fetish that you might have.
Here’s a tip, more like advice, actually: if you don’t want to appear on the radar of Moderators and/or SYSOP, lift the quality of your comments and make it look like you’re engaging in good faith here, irrespective of whether your opinion is widely agreed or disagreed with (AKA unpopular) here – robust debate is the kaupapa of this site. Put simply: lift your game, thanks.
The choice is yours; the whip is within reach, always.
Incognito. I am no troll. Yes I disagree with many posts on here. I, in my opinion, am a socialist. I, again in my opinion, engage in good faith. Same goals I think, but different means.
But let’s be honest. Many people on TS are a little unrealistic as what might work or stick.
I try to engage in good faith, but some just give abuse in response.
Whipping? See my next post!
All this talk about whipping and spanking! Well, my partner and I went to a ‘bar’ off K road which sounded nice. The entrance fee seemed a bit steep but we were under drink. Full on sex club. Unbelievable .We enjoyed our time there. Did not partake. But I must, opened my eyes.
I have had time to think. I will forever leave TS. I see now that TS Sees ‘democracy ‘pr debate or dissenting views as a threat, not an opportunity
All the best, in the extremist void that will forever be limited to shouting that noone listened to
Kia kaha
‘
Saharafornication
The antieviction thing has always favored certain elements in our society. They get higher levels of subsidies from those who can’t get social housing. Consequences are experienced by everyone who is nearby but not the cause of the issues and that has got to stop.
That’s right….help the tenant to help himself by making choices! How empowering [sarc]
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/hawkes-bay-kainga-ora-tenant-nails-windows-shut-to-protect-himself-from-gang-intimidation/JMDJKAHIJXH56LZQVYFSWX2NRE/
National Library sending 600,000 books to the Philippines to be digitised
http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=137587 Real books vs Pixels
How to knife your ‘clients’ and your very job in the back! A ‘librarian’ sending books owned to be digitised instead of going all-out to support the excellent system we have of reading physical books, the whole literate and skilled community behind it, and the way that books encouraging imagination, discussion, are housed in places that draw communities, and are artifacts that represent humanity and serve it, in a way that bloody tech doesn’t (whether covered in red stuff or not, and of course that description is an oxymoron because tech is bloodless and dead). Stream of consciousness?
Totally agree Grey. Digital books are great for reference or technical things, but not for ‘reading’.
Can read and immerse oneself in a physical book, but digital? Not really.
Meh, the comments are more informative than that article. Good move, IMO, and for the record, I love real books.
I have written a short comment on Daily Review for Mon. 12/7. This went up at 10.22am with awaiting moderation, then vanished so I sent another one after it at 10.37am, same message, has vanished also. Nothing controversial about either of them. So where, what?
Patience is a virtue.
https://thestandard.org.nz/policy/#moderation
Are we there yet? Are we at the hopeless bottom yet? Are we at the stage where we realise there is a serious problem yet?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/whoseatingnewzealand/446687/us-buying-up-our-primary-industries
United States citizens and companies are buying up New Zealand land for farming, forestry and wine-making, an RNZ analysis reveals.
Almost 180,000 hectares of farming land was purchased or leased by foreign interests between 2010 and 2021.
During the 11-year period almost 460,000ha – a little under the size of the Auckland region – shifted out of New Zealand control through purchases, leases or rights to take forestry. For simplicity’s sake, this is referred to as bought land throughout this article.
More than 70,000ha of land was bought for dairying operations and more than 100,000 for farming other types of animals, such as beef, sheep or deer.
It seems that farming entities have control of the country, so no wonder we can’t get anything done for ordinary people, who now can’t even own a tiny bit of land! Perhaps Bill Sutch had to be headed off, with the way that he was encouraging us to make new pathways, go in new directions, explore other options. Think.
Barking.
State Republican lawmakers around the country are pushing bills — at least one of which has become law — that would give unvaccinated people the same protections as those surrounding race, gender and religion.
https://www.axios.com/republicans-coronavirus-vaccines-discrimination-law-states-533503fb-fa83-43d0-bd51-2d614483d241.html
Way to show Chyyy-nuh who’s boss! They don’t need no stinkin’ protection from the Chyyy-nuh virus!
GOP class. (vile human, nsfw)
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1414734401439768578
Yeah, you wouldn’t want to drive near her. For starters, she’s on the wrong side of the road that she’s not paying any attention to.
Or maybe she just can’t post the video the right way around.
Yikes.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1413931514954489860
Tory scum.
https://twitter.com/allthecitizens/status/1413599090680770566
One could say he’s also de-facto promoting a level of racism that no leader should condone.
English fans booing the knee being taken by players Blojo referred to as ‘gesture politics’ so as to not upset his base.
It’s almost entirely among the unvaccinated. Some of whom are younger than the youngest age that vaccines have been approved for.
https://www.euronews.com/2021/07/03/european-nations-scramble-to-vaccinate-citizens-as-delta-variant-cases-surge
If this was happening in countries where vaccinations had plateaued, like Israel, meaning just about everyone that wanted to be vaccinated had already been jabbed, then I’d take a darwinian view of it. But in most of those countries, vaccinations are still happening at a good clip, meaning there’s still lots of people that want to be vaccinated that haven’t got it yet. So opening up to let things run wild in those countries is just barbaric.
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
Citation please, I couldn’t see anything referring to that in your link.
Also, England, Spain, Netherlands, Portugal which have covid spikes also have high rates of vaccinated persons too… which could mean there’s an association there.
Well, since you’re incapable of finding reliable information yourself, here’s several pieces that touch on it:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/07/08/covid-vaccine-variant-delta-infections-hospitalizations-cdc/7896029002/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/01/spain-records-surge-in-covid-cases-among-unvaccinated-young-people
https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/06/17/englands-covid-cases-are-doubling-every-11-days-amid-surge-among-young-and-unvaccinated-study-finds/?sh=6e31e8aef294
Search terms you could use include covid breakthrough cases, or covid surge unvaccinated.
It’s plausible that high vaccination rates might precipitate a premature relaxation (aided and abetted by imprudent leaders) of precautionary behaviours that curb infection transmission, which could in turn contribute to the recent spikes in Covid variant delta infections seen in England, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands and Greece.
It’s even possible that the act of gathering in vaccination centres might (very slightly) increase transmission from infected to uninfected people.
But is there’s any scientifically plausible way that the Covid-19 vaccines themselves, administered in England, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands and Greece, could contribute directly to the recent ‘yikes spikes‘ graphed @12?
Some people are not fit to be landlords. They should name and shame the landlord.
Auckland landlord who called tenant a ‘bloody Māori’ must pay $8900 in damages | Stuff.co.nz
Not sure why but I don’t seem to be able to paste links anymore.
True, but some tenants are not fit to be tenants. They also need to be named, shamed, and excluded.
Yes, let’s actively make more people unhoused by excluding them from rentals. /s
People don’t need to be landlords, but everyone needs somewhere to live.
All people living in NZ have the human right to adequate housing. What you’re proposing would contravene this human right.
Are you suggesting that there is no circumstance where a landlord cannot exclude someone a tenancy (irrespective of who that landlord may be) ?
No
Umm. What’s left below tenant in the hierarchy of housing?
The street, I guess.
They also need to be named, shamed, and excluded have special units built in concrete (hoseable) in industrial areas where they can be kept under curfew at night. simple bedding and facilities suitable for the half-crazed person.
That’s dealt with the present crop. The ones coming forward can be changed by their parents entering a program run under suitable cultural levels that assists parents in their role, helps them as needed, and enables them to have a happy life bringing up children in a kindly and firm way with goals for the parents and little ones for the children, like pocket money for doing tasks as part of family life. This outrageous system actually had been proved to work many decades ago, but has fallen into disuse, now needing revival. And those in the system would be offered free skills training, and on completion a job and income equal to a living wage. Also holidays at adventure camps once or twice a year. Incentives, in-sense-activities! If a significant percentage could be enthused to start this, with parents as role models, in ten years there would be a difference growing exponentiallly.
I agree Peter, tenants that purposely trash houses should be named and shamed and excluded from other rentals.
I’ll have a look at it soonish. Any day now my head will revert from last weeks bug and switch from birdbrain to crazy good programmer again. 😈
Disabled kids missing out at local schools is well documented, just as parents paying for extra teacher aide hours is common practice because of the limited resources governments past and present put in to ensuring disabled kids get a fair go.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/125734372/boys-teacher-aide-cut-off-after-parents-told-theyre-not-allowed-to-fund-it
Where the heck is the Human Rights Commission when it comes to this problem that’s been around now for decades? Governments for years have been saying that disabled children have access to the same learning opportunities as all other students, but we know that’s not true. Schools themselves say they’re woefully under-resourced.
All the rhetoric around how well the system’s working for disabled students shows how far the government’s head is buried in the sand. It beggars belief that despite everything we know this government’s now preventing parents topping up teacher aide hours, as if it isn’t needed. It’s a tragedy, of course, that it’s only the kids of those who can afford to do this who have access to crucial resources, but to now ban parents from doing this shows just how sensitive the government is to the criticisms. The government’s position on this whole issue is just diabolical.
Where the heck is the Human Rights Commission
Too busy making friends with the gangs. Want some money from this government? Join a gang.
I see that you’re a fully patched gang member of the Troll Mob.
Govts are very comfortable with HRC delays. https://ihc.org.nz/ihcs-education-complaint
I think this might be the result of that preliminary hearing?
http://www.nzlii.org/cgi-bin/download.cgi/cgi-bin/download.cgi/download/nz/cases/NZHRRT/2020/47.pdf
It’s preposterous that the government is even defending this. Full access to the curriculum for disabled students is government policy, so surely one would think that when instances of discrimination arise government would welcome guidance on how to combat it. But no, ‘all litigation must be defended even if we agree with the claims made against us’ – such a silly attitude to take. This surely must be a situation where the parties should get the declaration by consent, and then work together to stamp out the discrimination? Anything other than this highlights the government’s two-faced position on disabled kids’ access to education, and the reality of it being quite happy with the status quo.
Yes, I’m not clear what precedent they believe they are defending this time. Immoral.
https://rdln.wordpress.com/2021/07/13/women-will-not-be-silenced/
so SUFW put up a sign saying “women, adult human female” and it gets taken down.
on another post I put up a video clip of a women in California complaining cause a trans women was naked with their penis out in a women’s spa around women and girls.
we as women are supposed to put up with the latter while there is an outcry leading to the removal of a sign with the dictionary definition of women. WTF!
if this concerns you even a little do think of going to the SUFW talk this Thursday 6 30pm at the Michael Fowler centre
A private spa and a private media company find your ideas offensive, so what.
Anker
It seems that the new aristocrats can push the peasants off their commons again. Sexuality now is not something that you have as a mainstream bodily natural condition, its a matter of choice now in the disintegrating society of the 21st century. Nothing can be relied on that once was sure.
And the fact that Christians and right wingers are said to be involved in SUFW (Speak up For Women) doesn’t lend it lustre, but for once they have a point.
The private spa was/is inclusive of trans people Anker.
Yes I am aware the private spa was/is inclusive of trans people. I think trans people should be allowed to attend a spa. But not in the women’s only space.
But a lot of women and the mothers of girls were very uncomfortable with a trans women, naked with their penis out in a women’s private space.
Do you not understand why that is? Do you think women and girls just have to suck it up? Why should women have to accommodate to something they are uncomfortable with?
Why can you not understand that it is a private business and so they can have whatever policy they like. They could choose to have no gendered areas. Why should you get to bully them into your way of thinking?
Solkta, I have not been in contact with the Wi spa. So it is incorrect to suggest that I am bullying them.
In NZ under the human rights act, it specifies that women have the right to private change room facilities for public decency and safety.
As a woman I am defending my right for this to persist. And some of women are feeling bullied to give up this human right, should trans activists require us to give up our private spaces.
You are part of the international whinge fest so yes you are indirectly bullying them. But apparently that is OK but not for people with an opposing view to complain to an advertising company.
Afaik California law forces Wi Spa to allow male bodied people into the women’s section if the male bodied person identifies are a woman. I’m still unclear if the trans woman has to have a GRC or can simply say at that reception that they are a woman. I’m guessing in practice it’s the latter. What this means is that if someone in California set up a spa for women only, they would be legally and socially prohibited from excluding male bodied people who ID as women (TW or men).
“They could choose to have no gendered areas.”
Afaik Wi Space separates their spaces by sex not gender, so they already have no gendered spaces. If they had gendered spaces, there’d be a non-binary or GNC space. Which is a not a bad idea alongside single sex spaces.
Obviously being all mixed sex spaces wouldn’t work for a Korean spa that has cultural practices of nakedness segregated by sex. And equally obviously it doesn’t work for many women.
They are obviously doing by gender if they allow a woman with a penis in the women’s area.
I haven’t been able to figure out what the California statue says exactly, tried reading it myself and couldn’t make sense of it.But if you are saying that TW are allowed entry to the women’s space on the basis of gender not sex, are you saying that TW are not female?
Maybe someone else can make sense of this.
“In a statement to Los Angeles about this weekend’s incident, Wi Spa points to California Civil Code 51 (b), which makes discriminating against trans and other gender non-conforming people in business establishments illegal in the state.”
https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/wi-spa-video/
“(b) All persons within the jurisdiction of this state are free and equal, and no matter what their sex, race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, medical condition, genetic information, marital status, sexual orientation, citizenship, primary language, or immigration status are entitled to the full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges, or services in all business establishments of every kind whatsoever.”
…
(e) For purposes of this section:
…
(5) “Sex” includes, but is not limited to, pregnancy, childbirth, or medical conditions related to pregnancy or childbirth. “Sex” also includes, but is not limited to, a person’s gender. “Gender” means sex, and includes a person’s gender identity and gender expression. “Gender expression” means a person’s gender-related appearance and behavior whether or not stereotypically associated with the person’s assigned sex at birth.
(6) “Sex, race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, medical condition, genetic information, marital status, sexual orientation, citizenship, primary language, or immigration status” includes a perception that the person has any particular characteristic or characteristics within the listed categories or that the person is associated with a person who has, or is perceived to have, any particular characteristic or characteristics within the listed categories.”
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=CIV§ionNum=51
Looks like there are no laws to protect single sex spaces.
“There is no specific legislation that mandates for single-sex spaces and there are no laws that protect, for example, single-sex bathrooms or locker rooms in public places. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 has a provision for sex-segregated bathrooms, but the regulatory agency produced regulations on “gender-separated” bathrooms instead.”
https://www.keep-prisons-single-sex.org.uk/california
That particular stature is basic non-discrimination. So a business isn’t allowed to refuse service on those grounds. Doesn’t say what facilities people are supposed to use.
It looks to me like a bit of the old “not my rule, it’s [the widest possible interpretation of] the law, sorry about that [not really sorry because I wanted it to happen anyway]”. Every bouncer who’s worked a door knows a variation of that one.
The closest I’ve found is a rule around single-occupant bathrooms needing to be indicated as all-gender. Maybe there’s something more substantial, maybe not.
does that mean Wi Spa couldn’t stop men from going into the women’s section?
Heh. Bit of a language issue there.I suspect (and I can’t emphasise that enough, this just seems to me to be a plausible way out to stop being the battleground of a global political shitfight) that Wi Spa are interpreting that specific legislation to mean that while they might be able to stop “men” going into the “womens'” section, they’re not entitled to discriminate against transmen and transwomen.
However, some websites say that for employees there should be single-occupant gender neutral facilities available for people who want additional privacy, but nobody can be forced to use them. I.e. trans people can use whatever one they want, and if someone has a problem with it then the person with the problem has an alternative.
I was thinking more generally, that if there is no law protecting single sex spaces and there is a law protecting people from discrimination on the basis of sex (assuming Ca legislators still actually know what sex is), then is there anything to stop men from going into women’s spaces?
In the UK, there is law against discrimination but there are also exemptions where warranted. This is what gives legal right to women’s spaces, even excluding TW with a gender recognition cert afaik.
It’s this exemption that Stonewall UK has been lying about in its advice to orgs that it sanctions as trans friendly, and Stonewall has been lobbying to have the exemptions removed. (that’s how I understand it). This is at the heart of the whole shit fight (although not the whole of it)
NZ law seems to be similar but haven’t looked at it closely.
Dunno about “spaces” generally, but the Ca restroom requirements state “for each sex”. Although your c&p above also includes (but not limited to) “gender” in “sex”.
So yes, men can be stopped from going into women’s restrooms. But there would be exceptions to that if your definition of “men” includes transwomen, because that does not match the definition of “men” as a subset of “sex” according to the Californian legislature.
Interesting. Wi Spa might have been right in it being the law (depending on what actually happened).
if we put aside toilets for a moment, and look at other women’s spaces, my reading of the above is that there is no law that says there is an exemption for women from the anti-discrimination laws (except where other laws have been created eg the restroom one) eg women’s refuges or someone running a women’s health group. Men could legally try to access those spaces and not be denied on the basis of sex. This is of course bizarre and it won’t surprise me if I am reading this wrong, but we are talking about the US.
And yes, my understanding is that Wi Spa acted in accordance with Ca law. What I don’t know is whether self ID happens in the Wi Spa reception or if someone has to have a state certification of gender ID. The thing pertinent to NZ here is that no-one currently is going to ask for the certificate at the reception desk, even if they think the person is a man. Self ID as a technical approach to birth cert changes shifts the overton window so that self ID becomes a matter of what the person says in the moment across society. How left wing people can believe this won’t be abused by men is beyond me.
(And as above, crazy fucking language in the Ca legislation).
As you say, there might be other laws or case law that we, as NZ googlers, might not know about.
As for your final point, sure some guy will try it sooner or later. There’s no limit to the arseholery of humanity. But at the same time, using one of the innumerable other ways to refuse service to an individual you don’t like the look of is not discrimination on the basis of gender self-id, especially if your establishment is trans-accepting.
And that’s if one argues that all one needs for gender self-id is for me to yell “I’m a girl now” to go wherever I want. If I did that wearing a three piece suit with not so much as a doctor’s appointment to talk about transitioning or what have you, the honesty of my claim could well be challenged. And being America, I’d be surprised if it hasn’t (especially as at the NZ uni I worked at a local dickhead for years kept trying to run for womens’ rights officer, and complained about sex discrimination because we wouldn’t let him). It’s quite rare for a loophole that obvious to exist for years without being tested and then patched in response to the test.
then they should tell their female customers that they can no longer provide single sex spaces. California law prohibits them from excluding trans women, and any men that ID as a woman, from the women’s space. I’m under the impression that many women don’t know this. Likewise in NZ if the govt passes self ID law without consulting women. We will end up with social changes that most NZers don’t realise is happening. That alone should be a red flag.
The Adult, Human, Female banner is on point about that.
The media company were find to put the sign up until they got complaints. If they geniunely found the sign offensive they wouldn’t have put it up.
What is so offensive about the dictionary definition of women?
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/anti-trans-billboard-removed-wellingtons-cbd
The Conversation is ‘helping’ NZ get informed about sea level rise in a study co-led by Tim Naish and Richard Levy called the NZ SeaRise programme.
These two men are glaciologists and may be looking at the changing earth over the last 40 million years. I suggest that they lack the urgency of those worrying about whether they are going to be hit by a combination of seal level rise, storm surge and increased ground water arising from a heavy rain ‘event’ around their house, and just as importantly on the business decisions of their insurers and their actuaries. However if they can get some good theoretical statistics for the insurers, that will be most useful.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/446809/significant-number-of-new-zealanders-overestimate-sea-level-rise-and-that-could-stop-them-from-taking-action
https://speakupforwomen.nz/speak-up-for-women-campaigners/
This is who SUFW members are. Not christians or right wingers. Feminists who are committed to women
Thanks for that Anker. It’s ironic that today’s feminists can’t support other women who are just being themselves
It’s not just restricted to today’s feminists. Goes back to at least the 1970s.
Committed to females. At least be honest about that.
Most people still use the word woman to mean female. In English we don’t usually call women females except in specific situations. I wouldn’t for instance say see those two females standing over there, I’d say see those two women standing over there.
We have had this conversation. If you want to exclude trans women from things, then you are campaigning for females. Be honest about it.
Scratching my head at that. Where’s the dishonesty? Women and trans women, it’s really simple. I want women to be able to retain single sex spaces. I want trans women to have access to their own spaces. I will support them to have that in society.
I’m not sure why you say there is dishonestly in my position when you seem to be presenting a semantic argument around the words female and woman. Maybe I’m missing something?
I’m not absolutist about eg I’m fine with TW using whatever toilet works for them. But we need to have the debate openly about what this means, and how it impacts on women as well as trans people. That’s where the dishonesty is currently, and the attacks on SUFW will just make that worse.
I also want to exclude men (males), from those single sex spaces.
What I and many women are also not willing to do is give up language that we need to talk about our own experiences, especially politically.
The way you are using woman and trans woman does not make sense. Woman is the noun and cis and trans are adjectives, they name an attribute of the noun. Woman is the set and cis woman and trans woman are subsets. If you think the term “woman” should be reserved for females then you should object to the use of “trans woman”. It is really simple, basic level grammar.
it does make sense in that you understood exactly what I meant. As most people will also understand exactly what I meant because that’s how English is used and understood in context.What you are saying is that how I am using language doesn’t suit your politics. If you want to change current use of the English language for political reasons, then stand up and make the argument.
My problem with your position is that what you are saying sits alongside women being told they’re not allowed to talk about being female as well. This is why many women who were once ok with sharing more with trans women, are now insisting on retaining the meaning of the word woman for adult human females. eg refusing to be seen as a subset. Trans woman is a noun.
Just because i can understand what you are saying does not mean that i think you are using language in an honest or grammatically coherent way.
I have not said anything about the word female so you can refrain from putting words in my mouth.
Maybe you are unaware then of the volatile political context in which you are arguing that woman should no longer mean adult female.
As I said, make the political argument.
My grammar is perfectly understandable and in line with common usage. You are arguing to change that usage, but I’m not yet seeing the argument for why.
Same dynamic as white people claiming the word ‘New Zealander’ as an ethnicity. Not defensible.
How is it the same? You’re asserting it is but not explaining how.
‘New Zealander’ is used to mean white person and then for all other varieties an adjective is added.
but hey it is a common usage so i guess that makes it OK.
Ok, but that’s identity not ethnicity. I know very few people that use ‘New Zealander’ to mean white. It’s not used that way in law, media, education, science, medicine, or every day language. Most people I know when talking about biologically female people would use the word woman in most contexts, and this is still the main usage in law, media, education, science, medicine.
And again, if you want to change the meaning of the word woman for political reasons, front up and make the political argument to society at large and let us have a conversation about it. Challenge the no debate position, and let people talk about it.
Simply saying, or just implying, it’s bigotry to not use it the way you want is a democratic fail.
But it happens enough to occasionally skew data gathered in those fields. Back when using paper forms, “NZ European / Pakeha” scribbled out and “NEW ZEALANDER!!!” carved into the page with biro was not uncommon. And it happened enough on the census in the early oughts that statsnz had to crank out an analysis on it (the rest of the forms mostly matched those of pakeha middle aged male mid-high income small business owners, from what I recall).
But I suspect the parallel isn’t each term’s use in administrative paperwork so match as the use in public by some smaller groups to dogwhistle to the converted and to try to spread their message of alienation.
Solkta and McFlock have explained it adequately. I am no longer prepared to indulge people who want a 101 level conversation about a topic they supposedly know about.
(seriously, I don’t understand what your argument is here).
There are rules
https://twitter.com/figgled/status/1414813272239263746
Sacha, you can correct me all you like, but I am sticking with the language I am comfortable with.
I believe biological sex trumps gender ideology. I believe trans gender people deserve the same rights as anyone else, but that doesn’t include the right to have me agree to their language requirements.
I am a biological women. Always have been always will be. I am not a cis women, just a women.
trans used to be referred to as transvestites or trans sexual. I understand they want to be referred to as trans men and women and that is fine by me. They have a right to identify as the opposite gender to their natal sex, no problem.
if a transgender individual asks me to use their pronouns, out of courtesy I would likely do my best to remember to do that. If they demanded I did, maybe not so much, it would depend.
women’s rights to private spaces and to women only sporting competitions are set out in the Human Rights Act 1993 and I will defend those rights vigorously
I have just read a book by Anne Perry set around rape of women and the difficulties of them at that time, in the 1890s, being safe from it, and being able to look for control and justice. because of the deep disgust felt by everybody in society about it, and the way they tended to include the victim in these emotions. In the first fifty or so pages she describes the problem well. It's 'Midnight at Marble Arch' and is quite a complicated plot, with a number of themes.
And to try and understand what women think about sex, there are two novellists specialising in stories which often have a soft porn centre, who seem to be popular, Jude Deveraux and Linda Howard. Men might learn something about women's ideas, and women might ponder on what these books indicate is missing in their lives.
Wrong OM?