Over rising concerns about the economic harm to the business community and the economy. The government ignored the health experts not to lower the Level 4 Alert in Auckland.
Now they are ignoring them again.
Government not considering alert level 4 'circuit-breaker lockdown' despite calls from health experts
1 hour ago
Jamie Ensor
All politics is pressure. Politicaal pressure from the business community on the government to surrender to the virus, must be countered by pressure from below not to.
If you think public health should be a priority before private wealth.
Most other countries never tried elimination, Alan. those that did, such as New South Wales and Victoria, botched the job by leaving it early, with damage to both lives and their economy.
Waste of time. If NZ goes back to level 4 for say the next 24 months, we will eliminate it. Great. As soon as we open up, Covid will return. You cant live under a rock forever hiding from something that you are in fear of.
Actually, it would be less than a couple of months, with full compliance.
But if it was 24 months, most of the covid strains would be much more mild, because they ones that kill their hosts die sooner. E.g. the 19818 flu waves by the mid-twenties.
Virus isn't so bad, see, we can come out from under our rock and live with it…[voice of reason – probably best we don't even try living with it] ..right up until you're treed in a rondavel squeaking help, help meee…
Not necessarily, as current vaccines dont sterlize the virus there is a possibility a more potent and resistant strain that is able to overcome vaccination emerges to prominence in which case all bets are off.
You and I can bet that will happen (and I only bet on things that I evaluate as near sure things – ie I seldom gamble for money at all). The only real issue is the timing.
Natural immunity is also pretty well impossible with this particular virus apart from the longer term prospect. Eventually it kills off or causes every one who gets it to not breed well. There are known verified cases where people have caught variants or even the same variant of covid-19 after having a previous infection with covid-19 – as well as the same kinds of breakthrough infections with fully vaccinated.
There is a reason why the bat populations where the disease originated have the probably the most ferocious immune systems we know of in mammals. Long-term selection from this disease and other socially endemic diseases being endemic in their populations.
Ultimately we need to manage to get a sterilising vaccine or treatment because otherwise this disease will probably eventually crush our health systems. The incidence and time extent of long-covid is too high.
I suspect that repeated exposures are going to wear down the peoples immune systems. If covid-19 doesn't get you then something else will.
The reason that our more complex health systems work (and our life expectancy in the west keep rising) is because we have managed to reduce the wear and tear of diseases on the immune systems with public health measures over the past 150 years. At present I'm expecting that to reverse for most of this decade with this disease.
Well, it's not so much a case of "overcoming" vaccination as random mutations eventually tweak the main protein most vaccines currently help the immune system to target. Like the flu vaccine does – why some of use get new flu shots every year: it's not just because the previous year's vax has worn off somehow, it's because while the Northern Hemisphere was having their flu season some new varients emerged.
But the thing about more harmful variants is that they get spotted sooner (because people get seriously ill rather than not noticing a sniffle), and are prioritised for research/medications/vaccines more highly. So they still have less of a reproductive advantage than essentially harmless variants.
Fair call to a degree, but they're not complete morons, either. Most of them know that being the only ones on the street increases the odds of getting stopped. Some of the more stupid ones demonstrated that.
But also, even without perfect compliance with L4 the problem isn't so much the gangs as the possibility of wholesale rejection of controls, like in Melbourne. An indeterminate purgatory of half the population in lockdown and the other half listening to infantile opinionators in the media or religious frauds.
Someone at the dirty end of criminal activity is not getting essential worker status for that. "Covid compliance" is an even broader brush for stops and arrests (and the concomitant vehicle search for officer safety) than breach of the peace or traffic infringement. It's literally an excuse to arrest anyone in public if they're not essential workers or with a reasonable excuse to be out.
So assuming that they're okay with disease ravaging their community and families, the leaders of all criminal enterprises would need to ask themselves whether a limited hiatus on earning is more cost-effective than actively losing earnings and distribution staff to law enforcement. Hell, the government could allow suspected leaders of such organisations to travel into restricted areas in order to deliver that message personally. Along with other leaders of disaffected and socially alienated communities (in the general idea that maybe community leaders have more credibility with the members of those communities than might be the domain of official government representatives).
…Waste of time. If NZ goes back to level 4 for say the next 24 months,….
24 months?
Surely you joke, Jester.
24 months is a hysterical over exageration of the time needed to achieve elimination.
The Level 4 Lockdown in Auckland almost killed off the Delta covid varient, before it was lifted early before it had finished its job.
Another one, possibly two more weeks, would have eliminated it completely.
And we would be back in Level 1 by now.
This TVNZ timeline graph shows the whole sorry tale.
The Level 4 Lockdown was put in place on 17 August. Daily infections reached a peak of 86 before plateuing around August 30 and then started dropping sharply about the 1st of September. As the Level 4 Alert started to take effect, daily cases kept dropping to a low of 22 cases on 21 September. Against expert public health advice. On 21 September the Level 4 Alert was dropped to Level 3, despite 22 daily cases, two of which could not be linked to any known cluster. Eight days later the infections started rising again. And haven't stopped rising.
Yes 24 months is an exageration, but a Level 4 lockdown for say 12 weeks then, would eliminate. But guess what? Covid would still come back and pop up again.
I hope they don't do any more level 4 lockdowns as by December everyone that wants to be vaccinated will be. But I do hope they have increased ICU capacity at hospitals.
90% vaccination of the eligible population is a good practical achievable target to aim for, 95% vaccination of the total population is what is needed.
Maybe when the vaccine is approved for use on over 5s we could get near that figure.
Even then, more ICU beds will be needed.
We are at war and our government are surrendering.
I don't think the government are surrendering. I think they realise that people will only be locked down for so long. Eventually life has to go on. I'm in Auckland and many people are already over it. People at Okahu Bay and Mission Bay have been at level 1 for the last few weeks anyway. This step one of level 3 where you can have a picnic with another bubble, as the govt know, people have been doing this for weeks already.
And as for the gangs…well it's always been level one for them as we hear on the news (and then they have the audacity to not be cooperative with the authorities).
…..as for the gangs…well it's always been level one for them as we hear on the news (and then they have the audacity to not be cooperative with the authorities).
"There is no such thing as bad soldiers, only bad generals" Napoleon
Now I am sure that Napoleon's army had the usual minority of drunkards, deserters, and trouble makers of any army. Of course there is such a thing as bad soldiers. The point that Napoleon was making is that he or his generals could not put the blame for their failures on this minority.
The minority of rule breakers including the gangs and sex workers rough sleepers, drug addicts, and the other marginalised communities make for a handy scapegoat. But they are not the major source of the current uncontrolled spread of the virus.
If enough people do it, just like vaccination, Lockdown creates herd immunity. Just like vaccination, if enough people do it, Lockdown protects the minority of people who don't.
To make my point, one of the most egregious cases of rule breaking and the one you alluded to, was the case of the two sex workers that traveled through Northland on false essential worker credentials, and then refused to tell the authorities who they had met with or where they had been. Surely this must be a worst case of rule breaking by two individuals. But this rare and unusual case, did not result in a mass spreader event and Northland has just been downgraded to Level 2.
So where should we look for the failure of this country's covid response?
When the Level 4 alert for Auckland was lowered. 200,000 workers who had been isolatiing at home were ordered back to work.
There is your daily mass spreader event right there.
The real cause of the current uncontrolled rise in covid invections is revealed in the TVNZ timeline graph, above. The timeline clearly shows the dramatic rise in cases following the Level 4 lockdown being lifted.
Just as you say, Jester. It has always been level one for the minority of rule breakers like the gangs. But despite the actions of this tiny minority, the virus was being crushed under Level 4.
From a high of 83 around about August 30 followed by a dramatic drop, to single figures around about September 22, followed by a rise, beginning eight days, after the lifting of the Level 4 lockdown, (the incubation period of the virus). An upward rise in cases that has continued.
The change in government policy not the gangs is the cause of the current rise.
So after all that waffle, what is your solution? Stay in level 4 forever? When / if we finally get to level 2 there will probably be a further rise in cases but wont matter as enough people vaccinated so mostly recover at home. I want to know what Auckland has to do to get to open up to at least level 2. Is it 90% vaccinated? 95%? And I'm sure there is a few restaurants, bars, hairdressers and shops that would love to know. But after todays announcement they are none the wiser other than they are out of business for a further two weeks at least and still don't know what Auckland needs to do until at least Friday.
So after all that waffle, what is your solution? Stay in level 4 forever?….
Again you exagerate and fear monger to oppose proven measures of stopping preventable illness and deaths. This fearmongering and exageration prevents us debating the real matters that are in the balance to be decided.
The health experts and epidemic modelers have called on the government to apply a "circuit breaker" Level 4 lockdown to stop the rate of infection reaching into to triple figures.
So far the government have refused to heed this health advice.
"I want to know what Auckland has to do to get to open up to at least level 2. Is it 90% vaccinated? 95%?"Jester
Part of the answer to this question, Jester, has been supplied by the Auckland District Health board, who have stated that at 90% vaccination rate they are preparing the hospitals for 6 deaths and 33 hospitalisations a week.
The real question Jester, that is in the balance to be decided, is how much preventable death and illness will we accept in return, for business as usual?
The government has not made it explicit, but it seems that 6 preventable deaths and 33 preventable hospital admissions is acceptable to them as the price for fully opening up the economy and to hell with kindness.
"And I'm sure there is a few restaurants, bars, hairdressers and shops that would love to know. But after todays announcement they are none the wiser other than they are out of business for a further two weeks at least and still don't know what Auckland needs to do until at least Friday." Jester
From the graph above, you can see that we were very close to nation wide elimination under the Level 4 Auckland Alert. If the government had not lost its nerve. we could be at Level 1 now. Not a certainty, but the sharp downward heading trend did seem to show that. Of course we will never no for sure now.
Certainty was lost when government abandoned the Alert Level System and replaced it with the Three Step Roadmap to reopen the borders.
As you can clearly see on the graph, Stage One and no doubt the other steps to come on this Roadmap, are to be applied even as infections continue to climb. But reality has turned the Roadmap into a vague and confusing mess, with little certainty of anything. Only the first step or stage has been completed, with no idea of when the others steps will occur, or even if the Roadmap still exists.
But at least we are getting down to the real reasons for the refusal to continue the Elimination Strategy, which is the economic hardship on business and small proprietors. Nothing to do with gangs or sex workers or the minority of rule breakers. Which are just handy scapegoats for our failure to prioritise lives and public health over business interests.
Don't get me wrong Jester, the destruction and turmoil and economic hardship and pain being visited on small business and households from lockdown is very real and a concern to me. But this paiin is not being shared equally. The big banks and financiers have had no lockdown.
If we really wanted to eliminate the virus and return us to Level 1, we would impose a Level 4 Lockdown with a full rent and mortgage moratorium to help households and business ride out the hardship.
This meaure is not unheard of. A moratorium on mortgages was implemented in 1914 due to the crisis brought about by the World War. And in 1931 a mortgage and rent moratorium was brought in due to the crisis of the World Economic Depression.
…..by 1931, it was clear that further intervention was necessary to prevent widespread foreclosures and mortgagee sales…..
….Although mortgage relief was frequently discussed at some length by
contemporary commentators, and by some historians in the 1950s and
1960s, it has been relegated to a few lines at most in more recent works.’
…..This Act also extended to lessees [renters] the same protection
that had been granted to mortgagors,
The modification of mortgage conditions was not new in New Zealand. A ‘mortgage moratorium’ had been imposed as a war measure in 1914,
Obviously the government does not think that the current Covid crisis is as severe as these past crises, or they would have implemented the same emergency measures.
You asked me Jester;
"So after all that waffle, what is your solution?"
That's my solution. Nationwide Level 4 Lockdown with full rent and mortgage moratorium until the virus is eliminated.
Afterall is said and done, it is not like the big Aussie owned banks, which take $3.5b out of our economy and off shore, every year, can't afford it.
P.S. You may think this crisis is not severe enough to warrant such extreme measures, but the people who sicken and end up in hospital and families of those directly affected may disagree.
So we have a harder than level 4 lockdown for (who knows how long) a time period including rent moratoriums etc. and we end up with say 14 days of no cases! Awesome. Then we open up and a few weeks later the virus comes back again and we start getting cases again. Then what? Another lockdown?
So we have a harder than level 4 lockdown for (who knows how long)….
….Then what? Another lockdown?
Possibly, but more likely everyone is vaccinated by then. (At least everyone who can be vaccinated.) And resulting deaths and illness are minimal and as small as possibly could be achieved.
It's this interim period we are talking about, where it has been decided to let the virus rip even while the population has not yet reached the target 90% vaccination level.
(The end of lockdown could be the carrot/whip to encourage vaccination, unfortunately this carrot and whip has been ruled out, ensureing that vaccination will not be as high as it possibly could have been, if the government had stayed the course.)
I admire your honesty in that you admit to this trade off in preventable deaths and illness has been made for the good of the economy.
We are not seeing this honesty being admitted in many places.
Early on worksites were identified by the Prime Minister as the source of spread of the Virus even under Level 4, despite this, infections kept dropping. That is until the Level 4 Alert was lifted on the 21st of September and 200,000 Auckland workers returned to their workplaces to mingle and spread the virus. One week later the infections which had been on a steep decline, began the upward trend, which hasn't stopped. On October 4, despite the continueing rise in infections, restrictions were loosened again.
Level 4 can can compensate for the minority of rule breakers. The looser Level 3 cannot.
Honesty means admitting that it was government policy that decided to let the virus rip for the good of the economy at the cost of public health.
Unfortunately your honesty in admitting this fact, is not being followed by our policy makers who are embarked on major frenzy of finger pointing and blamestorming the tiny minority of rule breakers for the current outbreak due to their change in policy direction.
This dishonesty does not inspire confidence in our leadership. Or even the certainty that business crave.
Two millionaires horse breeders who broke lockdown to fly to Queensland, did not lead to an outbreak. Two sex workers who toured the North, did not lead to an outbreak. A wild party on the North Shore attended by 50 people, looks unlikely to lead to an outbreak.
The government has embarked on a policy of letting the virus rip.
But rather than accept responsibility, the screaming headlines for the next couple of weeks, as hospital admissions rise and deaths start occuring, will be concentrated on the rule breakers as the cause.
The honest thing to do would be admit to the policy change behind the rising infections and put it to the public for their support.
Dishonesty does not engender confidence.
"There is no such thing a bad soldiers only bad generals" Napoleon
As the health experts have said, kissing goodbye to level 4 means kissing goodbye to level 1.
So say goodbye to a Covid Free Christtmas and summer.
So reading this, all you are suggesting is giving people more time to get vaccinated ie. up over the 90% or whatever.
"Possibly, but more likely everyone is vaccinated by then. (At least everyone who can be vaccinated.) And resulting deaths and illness are minimal and as small as possibly could be achieved."
I say no to that, people need to be get off their backsides and get vaccinated NOW if they want to. Else take their chances unvaccinated if that is what they want. They can be fully vaccinated by December the 1st if they get vaccinated now. But the rest of us (the vaxinated majority) cant be held back forever waiting.
Personally, if it was up to me, I would say, you've already had your chance to get vaccinated (taxis, buses, KFC vouchers, other vouchers and a vaxathon and various other financial incentives have been oferred) and we are opening up on 1st of November.
So reading this, all you are suggesting is giving people more time to get vaccinated ie. up over the 90% or whatever…..
I say no to that, people need to be get off their backsides and get vaccinated NOW if they want to. Else take their chances unvaccinated if that is what they want…..
….I would say, you've already had your chance to get vaccinated (taxis, buses, KFC vouchers, other vouchers and a vaxathon and various other financial incentives have been oferred) and we are opening up on 1st of November.
'Devil take the hindmost', (as the saying goes). Eh Jester?
Weka puts it best:
Covid and kindness
Written By: WEKA – Date published:10:16 am, October 20th, 2021
I’m still seeing a fair number of people advocating for ‘opening up’ on the basis of either individual responsibility (‘I’m vaccinated’), and/or fuck the lazy/selfish bastards (‘never mind 90% vax rate, we can’t wait’)….
As well as trashing our international reputation for protecting the welfare and health of our most vulnerable. There is another serious flaw in your plan to sacrifice others' lives and health, just so you can open up the country by November.
The fact is, that at the very best, vaccines are only 90% effective. Vaccination approachs 100% effectiveness in stopping the spread of a viral infection, the more people get vaccinated. The so called 'herd immunity' does not just protect the unvaccinated, it also protects the fully vaccinated by filling in for that 10% failure rate.
That is how vaccination works. It is how we eliminated polio.
What this means, is that below 90% vaccination coverage, even some of the fully vaccinated can still catch the virus, and sicken and possibly even die.
Who knows, it could even by you, or one of your loved ones.
So purely on a selfish basis it is in your interest to get as many others vaccinated as possible before opening up.
Colin Powell was fully vaccinated, but he still died from COVID complications. How rare is that?
Adrianna Rodriguez – USA TODAY, Oct. 18, 2021
….the former secretary of state and retired four-star general was fully vaccinated against the disease….
….The CDC also reports that as of Oct. 12, 7,178 deaths among vaccinated people; 85% of the deaths are in people 65 and older….
….Research suggests that may be happening among other populations, too. A study in August from the CDC showed vaccine effectiveness decreased among health care workers who were fully vaccinated since the time the delta coronavirus variant became widespread.
I don’t think much of your plan to sacrifice the old and also put at risk our health care workers who have sacrificed so much for us during this pandemic.
And what for? So the Aussie owned banks can keep screwing this country into the ground even during a pandemic?
P.S. So far, no country has yet been able to achieve herd immunity levels of vaccination against Covid-19. New Zealand could be the first. I think it is a worthy goal to attempt. We were the first country to show that elimination was possible to world acclaim. Another world first in the global fight against Covid-19, would do wonders for this country's international reputation. And on a purely personal note, my father is 86, and fully vaccinated. My father still enjoys life. I wouldn't want him to die of a fully preventable disease because of your selfishness.
It sounds like we will simply have to agree to disagree then. Locking down a town / city /country indefinitely simply wont work.
It would be interesting to know how many people have died due to the lockdowns. This Covid outbreak this year has killed 2 people, one in their nineties, and one in their fifties with health issues. I'm sure the mental health and procedures and treatments postponed have probably killed more.
To which I pointed out that without achieving herd immunity some of the fully vaccinated will also sicken and possibly even die.
Now, to fit your narrative that we must reopen by November, you claimed that Colin Powel didn't die of Covid -19, but died of cancer.
Yes, Colin Powel did have cancer, but it wasn't a fatal kind.
Myeloma is more commonly seen in people over 60, said Dr. Don Benson, hematologist-oncologist at The Ohio State University Comprehensive Cancer Center.
Roughly 35,000 cases of myeloma are reported in the U.S. each year. Although it’s considered an incurable cancer, most patients don’t die from the disease itself.
……This Covid outbreak this year has killed 2 people, one in their nineties, and one in their fifties with health issues. I'm sure the mental health and procedures and treatments postponed have probably killed more.
All statistics of a drop in background deaths from all causes during lockdown, disprove this Lie. Even deaths from suicide declined under Level 4 Lockdown.
The fact is that lockdown stops our hospitals from becoming overwhelmed, preventing people who could otherwise be treated of curable illness and accidents getting a bed, because all the beds, especially, critical care beds are filled up with covid patients.
To argue the opposite against the facts is to go against all reason.
Frankly Jester. I am disappointed. From arguing that we need to balance the loss of lives against the economic harm of Lockdown, which is a fair point, and an honest position to debate, you have reverted to lieing.
But I can understand why you might feel motivated to dissemble. Because when faced with a pandemic, the main reason for opposing lockdown, is the prioritising of making money over people's lives and health, is a motive repulsive to most people, possibly if you dared admit to it, repulsive to your self.
Re the govt's pivot toward North Korea in response to Key's prompt, will we see him leaping excitedly about in front of the news camera yelling "Told ya so!! Got it right! State compulsion!"?
Folks here yesterday pointing out that it's actually state coercion are technically correct – but will those on the receiving end feel the difference? I'm inclined to doubt it.
So will the govt now open an embassy in NK? Send an ambassador to tell the wee fat guy "Hey, we do rockets, just like you! We do state control of citizens too! Any other bright ideas?" His response: "Cool, yes! Take out bad cabinet minsters with anti-aircraft gun! Sends message to other ministers: do as told!"
Bit late to apply retrospectively to Twyford & Clark I guess, but you can see how the PM would open the following cabinet meeting: "Right, the North Korean option. Here's where we're going with this…"
I never even finished reading that. He shows up the opinionist critics as complete tossers so well by about halfway thru I didn’t have any desire to be further depressed by reading on about how ill-informed & ridiculous the perennial critics like Soper & HDPA, & Mike Hosking & Kate Hawkesby are.
I hope everybody can find the time to read that piece. It is the most comprehensive round-up of the idiotic reckons which infect the "debate". Grim but essential reading. Worth bookmarking.
We already had made those observations on this site. Especially damning reviews of Soper and Duplicity A. Hoskins and his wife are entitled wind bags, whose write ups are back and forth to reflect the vacillations of a stirrer
Covid's greatest secret weapon is it creates no visible marks.
Maybe we'll have to wait until a covid mutation of concern (bound to happen) that gives people covid fingers, or covid nose rather than covid toe – something people can see, like a body covered in pustules, before the opinionists take a public health response of elimination seriously.
Then they can helpfully rage if the elimination is too slow.
No, he's saying that the people with those opinions don't agree with their own opinions, depending on the toss of a coin that day. The opinions aren't based on a good-faith analysis of the evidence, but only on the requirement to have opinions.
It's only "long-winded" because there are so many examples to cite.
Great critique of NZ's 5th column ‘opinionists’ – the inconvenience this pandemic has caused Hosking/Hawkesby/Soper/HDP/Roughan/Yardley/Bridge et al. is heartbreaking.
Yeah that graph says it all, eh? Presuming it's accurate (recalling the old adage re lies, damn lies, & statistics). Doesn't give the right any leverage at all. And all that hoo-hah for months about opening the border to get back to business as usual got their credibility destroyed by Delta. It's like they want to pretend the contagion ain't real. But I suppose you could argue it's just the old ruling class social darwinist stance getting a re-run. Collateral damage is tolerable, I bet they think, assuming it won't happen to them…
… a protest group is promising to hold a "strike" in Auckland against what they see as an imposition on teachers' freedoms. It's not known how many of the group are teachers. (my bold)
If they sourced a vaccine for those whose bodies cannot handle the glycol lipids in the vaccine then 10 % more people could be vaccinated. Might mean we save a few teachers !
I had thought they had done this. A couple of immuno compromised people I know have had and will have access to different vaccines on an invitation basis on specific days for vaccination. One I had heard had said her day was later this month.
Of course this depends on being noted by your GP and the person working with their GP/MOH and not just a fanciful "I am intolerant to…….. ie I have done my own self diagnosis, " or I don't want to have that…..'
Vaccine mandates are the fastest way we now have to stabilise the superiority of scientific truth against social media truth, and simultaneously keep us all safe.
In a fast-arriving future in which Auckland goes into hundreds of cases per day, one can see an international passport's biometric scan information also gets used (it always starts with mere convenience) by AirNZ, Kiwirail Interislander, and Police as a means to enforce travel between New Zealand regions. Or even moreso, a medical i.d. stronger than an app, with remarkably low privacy settings for state database interoperability.
That kind of all-travel biometric could take in all kinds of herbal proclivities.
Having just returned from a bar after 2 different but beautiful Belgian triples, I understand your point. Some would still die with a bottle of Speights in their cold dead hand. What is familiar, What is trusted. What is liked. Not necessarily what is good.
nah, it'll be the millenium bug all over again – we opened up and didn't have the crematoria running overtime, so obviously there was nothing to worry about.
just to clarify, there is a difference between medically exempt, and those having reactions to the vaccine that mainstream medicine doesn't consider relevant to public health but may still be relevant to the individual. Distinct again from people fearful because of anti-vax beliefs. Not a lot of research for the middle group to help make decisions unfortunately.
his position seems reasonable to me. Essentially he wants a much tighter border between Auckland and Northland so Northland people can focus on the vaccination programme in a calmer manner rather than the panic that's happening now. All of that to protect people most vulnerable to a covid infection.
I don't think Harawira's lost the plot. I think he's being quite mild.
A woman and her mate travelled to Northland when they should not have. From what has been published one of them at least conned the system. At least one of them had covid.
Neither of them were forthcoming with the details of their trip. One of them it seems went out of her way to avoid being questioned and still is not fully co-operative.
Ignore the fact that they may have come to Northland deposited Covid, departed and apparently had no compunction about what they could have left behind. Ignore all the direct health angles.
At the moment 194,000 Northlanders are living their lives according to the dictates of the actions of the two women.
Hone Harawira and the region's leaders are being very measured.
Oh? Swearing? Using the fucking word for reporters is being measured, is it?
From someone who’s a former MP & a well-known (& generally well-liked by some, including me) public figure?
Do you want Jacinda Ardern to use the fucking word in interviews about the Auckland women cheating their way into Northland too? Or Chris Hipkins? Or Ashleigh Bloomfield? Or Kelvin Davis?
Would that be “measured” of them. Take your time to think before replying about the others. Because if you don’t approve of them using profanities, I’m interested in why it doesn’t bother you when Hone Harawira does, but it would bother you if THEY did.
By your reckoning Harawira's lost the plot because he used the particular word.
The Herald quoted him as saying, "We need to slam the f****** door on Auckland. Let's focus on us and healing ourselves."
In August the Herald carried a story of the Ombudsman saying a college should apologise to a schoolboy who'd been expelled for swearing at a teacher.
According to the report the boy told the teacher to "f*** off."
Of course the boy didn't say "f*** off." He said "Fuck off." Everyone knows that. Why didn't the Herald print it like that? We can handle seeing it written without it being written fully? Bizarre. If the word is so offensive they should not have used it at all. The Herald obviously considered quoting Harawira verbatim was acceptable. If they didn't they wouldn't have used it.
The Ombudsman didn't think it was the end of the world when it was used directly at someone I an aggressive tone.
fucking | ˈfʌkɪŋ | adjective [attributive] & adverb [as submodifier] vulgar slang used for emphasis or to express anger, annoyance, contempt, or surprise.
Harawira used the word in that sense. His anger was directed at the situation not the individuals who deserve much forceful language directed at them. How angry is he? Enough to voice it in a way which gets attention. A pity the attention is on a word not the reason for the anger, whether it is justified and whether the situation he addresses could have been avoided.
Because Jacinda Ardern doesn't express herself like that means she doesn’t care? That's silly. Everyone has their own way of expressing things. Public figures address reporters as they wish.
Over aeons politicians have fraternised with journalists. Relationships mean a politician describing another as an 'arsehole' isn't going to be published like that. Not seeing or hearing it it doesn't mean that florid language hasn't been used.
The Herald thinks the word is offensive enough to not use it fully, to sort of pretend to use it but not so offensive as to not use it at all.
God was taking a morning saunter through Heaven looking windswept and interesting as is his want when he comes across this sorry looking new arrival and says to him “ What the fuck are you doing here? “ the recently worldly resident replies “ I died of Covid “ , “ Why weren’t you vaccinated “ says God , “ Because I prayed to you to send me help and it didn’t come “ ,” You dumb shit, I sent you Ashley, and Michael and Shaun, the one with the funny hair and Jacinda, now fuck off back to Purgatory to have a think about it and get vacced while you’re about it, and don’t think you’re getting back in here until then” .
Shaw warned us that he would not have anything organised for Glasgow, because of consultation blablabla.
But by the time he comes back mid-November he then runs a higher risk of not getting the figures and costs into the Treasury Budget cycle for 2022 to implement the Big Whole Of Government plan.
That would be a thing, both operationally and politically.
I was a bit scared to watch it at first because of the rat.
I have a blackbird friend who for the third year running has made the nest in a shrub outside my kitchen window and I found a little tiny bird outside on the lawn and no doubt a rat has been. I will put a good nature trap there. My neighbour has an anything goes compost bin and I often get her rats exploring. Not that I don't have them but I poison and my compost bins have got wirenetting barriers.
Yes, it's a contentious decision. They are cute as all get out, teeny little NZ long-tailed bats – but they're definitely NOT birds. Bad call to include them, imo.
I thought that this met the bill for that competition. Actually I was quite surprised when I Googled this to find that the competition still exists. I was expecting to have to say something like. "But they used to. Back in the 1960's etc etc"
“But many people don’t even know they exist. Maybe that’s how they snuck into the competition under cover of darkness.”
…
Department of Conservation senior ranger Rob Carson-Iles said the long-tailed bat was critically endangered, “the next stop on that continuum is extinction”.
Carson-Iles welcomed the addition of the bat to the previously bird-based competition.
“You can’t protect something you don't know about,’' he said.
“They’re something that’s really special to this area. They’re doing it tough, and they need our assistance to carry on.'’
It's just a PR stunt to draw attention to the 'competition.'
What do you think, next year as a PR thing Hector's dolphins will be on the list?
Petitions seem to be all the go lately, maybe all birds can get one together.
On the positive side I suppose it shows lateral thinking. Favourite for Sportsperson of the Year? Lorde. Favourite for Entertainer of the Year? Margaret Mahy. Butcher of the Year? Israel Adesanya?
I don't see a lot of evidence of your prior support of bats. Do you have any particular reason for denying bats the affirmation they must feel from being included in the competition? In fact – have you even asked them?
Is it worth James Shaw's and by proxy the Greens reputation to be actually presenting this stuff to the public and holding the line that its the right path as far as climate change is concerned?
Would it be better to pull the pin very publicly and say Labour wasnt prepared to do enough and if you want meaningful action on climate you need to vote Green?
The modus operandi of this government is very difficult to pick on that score.
On the one hand it can go big such as with nationalising hospitals. On the other hand when it gets lots of public pressure on a specific item like a cycleway it kills the project.
Most of the time, unless there's an immediate crisis, Ardern only acts when the rest of the country begs her to. It's very awwwwwwwshucks you made me. In those respects Ardern is very similar to her predecessor John Key. Both were outstanding at reforms directly after crises, but day to day just went with the flow.
The huge rural protest was no issue to them electorally, but the fact that it was big and there was no organised countervailing pro-climate protest will quite reasonably be read that the left and the greens are complacent and Ardern can continue to tack deep into the centre. That's certainly how we will be read by other nations in Glasgow.
Yes very much a populist, I think thats why Auckland alert level dropped a touch early. Sadly Labour are a short on people who know how to get shit done. I think this manifests itself when big announcements are made like Kiwibuild, light rail, emergency housing etc and the actual delivery falls over or gets tied in knots.
I honestly believe this is in part due to the emergence of an insular political class who lack in real world experience.
At this rate, it's going to take a few deaths before the Government sees reason on Level 4 (as for compliance – I'd venture that a few deaths would also make certain people remember what we are fighting against).
Our media insists on telling us that Ukraine is a unified country suffering aggression from its neighbour the Russian Federation. But it is hardly unified. A violent civil war has raged there since the overthrow of the democratically elected government in February 2014. This civil war arose from deep ...
If National causes yet another by-election to be held in Tauranga, not only will it cost the taxpayers another unnecessary $1m for the taxpayers after Simon Bridges called it quits earlier in the year, but National will also pay a big price in terms of its reputation and integrity. A ...
Representing Pakeha Racism: The important thing to remember about Rob Muldoon, and the racist policies with which his name is associated, is that he drew his power from the hundreds-of-thousands of anxious, angry, and yes – racist – Pakeha who voted for him, and that his most effective campaign slogan was: “New Zealand the ...
I remember feeling anxious before making the phone call, although not at anxious I might have expected. But what sticks most in my mind is how the phone call ended. It was the late 1990s. I was deputy editor of the NZ Listener and I had to ring a guy ...
National is dripping “blue blood” again. The revelations over Sam Uffindell’s violent assault indicate that the National Party under Christopher Luxon hasn’t quite shed the toxicity and internal damage of the last few years. The crises besetting the party have recently been well documented in journalist Andrea Vance’s new book ...
Most of us believe in redemption and atonement… But the timing, the nature and the semantics of Sam Uffindell‘s apology for his role in a gang that beat a younger kid (reportedly) with wooden bed legs, has left much to be desired. The victim seems pretty clear about the motivation ...
Yesterday the news broke that newly elected National MP Sam Uffindell was asked to leave private Auckland school King’s College at the end of his fifth form year after being part of a group that viciously beat a younger student one night. There are many elements to this latest political ...
You’ve got to wonder why the National Party knowingly hid information from the public about their newest MP, Sam Uffindell. Surely they must’ve realised that their secret would eventually leak into the public domain. New Zealand is far too small for cover-ups of this kind to be effective.Despite his violent ...
Back in the 1990s, Tony Blair rebranded The British Labour Party as “New Labour”, to try and draw a line under past failures. It’s as if Christopher Luxon is attempting to follow suit, and launch “New National” at the moment – a party that’s fresh-looking, has made some big breaks ...
Back in June Sam Uffindell was elected to parliament in the Tauranga by-election. Turns out he's a bully who beat a kid with a bed-leg at school: The National Party’s newest MP, Sam Uffindell, was asked to leave his exclusive boarding school after viciously beating a younger student late ...
The Justice Committee has called for submissions on the Electoral Amendment Bill. Submissions are due by Wednesday, 31 August 2022, and can be made at the link above. The bill improves disclosure of party finances, lowering the declaration threshold to $5,000 and requiring parties to disclose their annual financial statements. ...
Laughing With The Poor Folks - Or At Them? Christopher Luxon took rapper LunchMoney Lewis’s lyrics at their face value. “Bills”, as heard by Luxon, is a cri-de-cœur from a hard-working man determined to pull himself and his family up by their own bootstraps. It simply wouldn’t occur to him ...
On the rare occasions when it ever gets asked, the public keeps rejecting tax cuts as such, as a policy priority. It keeps saying it wants tax levels to either stay the same or be increased, so that public services can be maintained, or even (perish the thought) improved. In ...
Europe has been baking in a heatwave, of course. Not so much this part of the world, which benefits by still being in Winter (though let’s just say I am not looking forward to January 2023). Not that it’s been a particularly cold Winter – we haven’t had one ...
The Wagner Group is a private military company – effectively mercenaries. It has been used for the military activity of the Russian Federation in various parts of the world. Currently, it is operating in Ukraine and apparently has a reputation as a very brave and effective force in the ...
I have said this in other forums, but here is the deal: PRC military exercises after Pelosi’s visit are akin to male gorillas who run around thrashing branches and beating their chests when annoyed, disturbed or seeking to show dominance. They are certainly dangerous and not to be ignored, but ...
From July 7 to 26 we tried something new on our Facebook page by sharing one Cranky Uncle cartoon each day for 20 days in a row. There were two reasons for doing this: firstly, we wanted to ensure that at least one post would get published each day while I was ...
Too many commentators on current price pressures have not understood that this time it is very different from the 1970s. Their prescriptions may accelerate inflation.The New Zealand economy is experiencing an external price shock arising from the Covid pandemic and the Ukrainian invasion compounded by related supply chain difficulties. It ...
During the years of the Key government one hardy perennial of political journalism was that whenever the Labour Opposition would suggest a policy alternative to the status quo, the hard bitten response from the Gallery realists would be “But how’re you gonna pay for it?” National in Opposition has been ...
In The Wizard’s Garden: George Dunlop Leslie, 1904IT ALL SEEMS so long ago now, and, to be fair, in human terms, 48 years is a long time. New Zealand was a different country in 1974. Someone unafraid of courting controversy might say it had achieved “Peak Pakeha”. Although the Labour Government of ...
Proximate Cause: Tellingly, it was Helen Clark who was seated close by when, earlier this week, Jacinda Ardern delivered a speech carefully crafted to keep New Zealand’s dairy exports heading China’s way. Photo by PolitikPURISTS WOULD ARGUE that New Zealand’s foreign policy should not be determined by who its Prime Minister ...
We have a new clip out of The Rings of Power. It sees Galadriel and the affectionately nicknamed Gigwit* venturing into dark places in search of evil. At fifty-odd seconds, it also constitutes the longest single piece of show dialogue we have seen thus far. *An acronym. “Galadriel Is ...
Rising To The Challenge: Te Pāti Māori is reassuring the angry and the alienated that in 2023 voting will make a difference. Aotearoa is changing. Pakeha – especially young Pakeha – are changing. The racism is still there, of course, heightened, it would seem, by the prospect of Labour, the ...
"CAGW." A thing? With its provocative title and remarks grounded in respected published research, the perspective Climate Endgame: Exploring catastrophic climate change scenarios just published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences has caused a few ripples reaching into popular media. "Endgame" and "catastrophic" lean hard in the direction of "pay ...
In the past there's been a few interesting data points about the New Zealand Intelligence Community's desire to covertly manipulate public opinion through media and academic mouthpieces. In 2015 the Council for Civil Liberties revealed the existence of an NZIC "Strategic Communications Group" tasked with persuading the public that spying ...
Inflation is through the roof, and "coincidentally" so is oil company profiteering. UN Secretary-General António Guterres calls it what it is: grotesque: The UN secretary general, António Guterres, has described the record profits of oil and gas companies as immoral and urged governments to introduce a windfall tax, using ...
What on earth is going on with the main opposition parties at the moment? Both National and ACT have been making numerous flip-flops and miscommunications, clearly indicating that they aren’t a viable alternative to the current Labour led Government.Of particular note is the duplicitous reasoning given for why they support ...
A ballot for two member's bills was held today, and the following bills were drawn: Housing Infrastructure (GST-sharing) Bill (Brooke van Velden) Prohibition on Seabed Mining Legislation Amendment Bill (Debbie Ngarewa-Packer) Ngarewa-Packer's bill looks likely to start a shitfight with Labour, and not just because the ...
As you might have noticed, I have an on-going interest in working my way through old and intellectually influential reading material. Occasionally I even share my thoughts on it, which allows me to take a break from my generally-dominant Tolkien analysis. Well, today I thought I would take a ...
Golriz Ghahraman's Electoral (Strengthening Democracy) Amendment Bill will probably face its first reading today. And three months after it was introduced - pissing on the "as soon as practicable" requirement of Standing Order 269 - it has received a section 7 report from Attorney-General David Parker stating that its proposed ...
There's an interesting select committee report out today, from the Petitions Committee on the Petition of Conrad Petersen: The Independent Police Conduct Authority (IPCA). The petitioner raises some concerns about the slowness of the IPCA process and its lack of oversight, and suggests some solutions. The committee doesn't seem keen ...
Today is a Member's Day, but likely to be a boring one. There's no general debate today, and instead the House will move right into the third reading of the Canterbury Regional Council (Ngāi Tahu Representation) Bill, which will add unelected, inherently conflicted Ngai Tahu representatives to ECan. Then there's ...
That gormlessly glum picture of Christopher Luxon in Samoa graphically tells us what kind of image New Zealand would be projecting abroad if there’s a change of government next year. The glumness is understandable. For months, National and ACT had been dog whistling to the bigots who oppose the creation ...
There is no corruption in New Zealand. At least that’s what authorities want the public to believe. For decades now our system of political finance regulation has been portrayed as highly rigorous, ensuring our politicians cannot be bought. Unfortunately, that’s just not true. Although politicians and officials have claimed tight ...
Pundits have come out of the woodwork to defend the Greens co-leader, after he was stripped of his leadership last week by unhappy party members. The defences have all stuck to basically the same script: Shaw is a successful leader and minister who’s handed the party big victories in politics ...
Meghan Murphy talks with Batya Ungar-Sargon the author of Bad News: How Woke Media Is Undermining Democracy. The book charts the trajectory of journalism in the US as it shifted from being a blue collar occupation producing the penny press for the masses, to a profession for Ivy League university ...
Co-Leaders? The uncomfortable truth is: not the Army, not the Police, not the Spooks, and not even a combination of all three, could defeat the scale and violence of White Supremacist and Māori Nationalist resistance which the imposition of radical decolonisation – or its racism-inspired defeat – would unleash upon ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Bob Henson and Jeff Masters Torrents of rain that began before dawn on Tuesday, July 26, gave St. Louis, Missouri, its highest calendar-day total since records began in 1873. And the deadly event is just the latest example of a well-established trend ...
Completed reads for July: The Prince, by Niccolo MachiavelliFaust, Part I, by Johann Wolfgang von GoetheFaust, Part II, by Johann Wolfgang von GoetheParadise Lost, by John MiltonParadise Regained, by John MiltonThe NibelungenliedAgricola, by TacitusGermania, by TacitusDialogue on Orators, by TacitusThe Gods of Pegana, by Lord DunsanyTime and the Gods, ...
A couple of weeks ago the High Court exposed a loophole in our electoral donations law, enabling corrupt parties to take in unlimited amounts of secret money and explicitly sell policy to the rich. Pretty obviously, this is unacceptable in a country which wants to call itself a democracy, and ...
This morning, National’s deputy leader Nicola Willis managed to get top of the bulletin news coverage by pointing out that some Kiwis living abroad might receive the government’s cost of living payment. Quelle horreur. What is the problem here? Inflation is a global problem, and Kiwis living abroad may be ...
Beyond Fixing? The critical question confronting New Zealanders is whether we any longer have the resources to repair our physical and human infrastructure?WHO WILL MAKE the New Zealand of the next 50 years? We had better hope that, whoever they are, they make a better job of it than those ...
Today’s speech by Jacinda Ardern to the China Business Summit in Auckland was full of soothing words for Beijing. The headline-grabber was Ardern’s comment that ‘a few plans are afoot’ for New Zealand ministers to return to China – and that the Prime Minister herself hopes to return to the ...
Rule-Breaker? It is easy to see why poor James Shaw found himself brutally deposed as the Greens’ co-leader. By seeking the responsibilities of leadership – and exercising them – he violated the first rule of Green Party governance. Then, by accepting the limitations of the Green Party’s electoral mandate (7.8 ...
After the incredibly sad story about the deaths of over 50 Ukrainian POWs in a Ukrainian missile attack on the prison they were housed in (see Over 50 POWs killed. A military accident or a cynical war crime?)I came across the heartwarming story about another Ukrainian POW. It’s about a ...
British mercenary Aiden Aslin, now a prisoner in the Donetsk People’s Republic, expressed real concern that he may die from the Ukrainian shelling of Donetsk. He has experienced many missile attacks that came close to the prison.Is he still alive? Understandably, we are always shocked about the losses ...
Politics is largely reported as theatre: tragedy and comedy, thriller and farce. Andrea Vance captures it all very successfully in Blue Blood. But it is the politics of personality, not of policy – of the impact of government on the people’s wellbeing. Even so, we can see from the book ...
This year the government finally got its clean car feebate scheme into place. But there's a problem: it's been too successful: Transport Minister Michael Wood will shortly review the cost of the fees and rebates in the Government's "feebate" scheme after the runaway success of the policy has meant ...
Given how the pandemic has disrupted the sporting calendar, no-one would begrudge our elite athletes their chance to compete at international level. What with the war in Ukraine and the cost of living, there are also not many ‘good news” stories out there. So… I suppose the strenuous efforts the ...
Everybody Having A Say: Democracy commands us to look outward; it demands our trust; it tells us what is expected of our humanity; it elevates the collective above the self; it celebrates the things we have in common; it defines our morals and values; it calculates what we owe one ...
Even right-wing commentators have, over recent days, and jusrifiably enough, been taking the National leader, Christopher Luxon, to task. They have lambasted him over his soft-shoe shuffle over abortion, for bad-mouthing New Zealand business while he was overseas, and for pretending to be in Te Puke while he was actually ...
So, now we know for sure. The “protesters” who defiled the grounds of parliament and who (according to their own account) intended to create in three of our major cities “maximum disruption and inconvenience” to other citizens, are not interested in democracy – indeed, quite the contrary. Their objective, quite ...
The issue with Christopher Luxon’s social media post talking about his day in Te Puke when he was in Hawaii is it’s fake news. He has since apologised for the mistake. But this doesn’t negate its impact. This mistake, misstep, gaffe or whatever you like to call it, is about ...
Over the last couple of years there has been a disturbing trend of new legislation containing secrecy clauses, which effectively make it illegal for affected government bodies to disclose information under the Official Information Act. Some of these are re-enacting old legislation from the pre- or early-OIA era (in which ...
Allegations of political corruption are once again at the heart of a new High Court trial this week. The trial follows straight on from the “not guilty” verdict for those running the New Zealand First Foundation. And this latest trial is once again about whether wealthy businesspeople and political parties ...
Ukrainian operation to steal Russian military aircraft exposed [English edit] Representatives of the Ukrainian special services offered up to $2 million for hijacking Russian military aircraft, as well as European passports for the pilots and their families. In order to gain trust, Ukrainians shared information they were not allowed ...
Struck Down: As James Shaw saved the pure Greens from themselves in 2017, they resented him. As he secured the Climate Change portfolio for his party, they suspected him. As he achieved cross-party support for crucial climate change legislation, they condemned him. And, as he was white, and male, and ...
If nothing else, some of the media treatment of the Luxon lu’au has reeked of a double standard. If Jacinda Ardern – or any of her Cabinet Ministers – had been holidaying in Hawaii while their social media imagery was depicting them working hard on the public’s behalf in Te ...
The Emissions Trading Scheme is broken. Stuffed with free allocations and rigged with a "cost containment reserve" which floods the market any time prices get "too high" (for a definition of "too high" set in a different world), its basicly served as a machanism to subsidise the production of the ...
Think Big: A democratic-socialist government could remove GST from basic food items. It could re-nationalise and centralise the generation and distribution of electric power, and then retail it to citizens at an affordable price. A democratic-socialist government could nationalise the public transportation system and make it free for everyone. A democratic-socialist government ...
Pure Poison: It is when the fetid atmosphere created by the Right’s toxic accusations and denunciations is at its thickest, that comparisons with the Woke Left spring most easily to mind. If the level of emotion on display, and the strength of the invective used, is inversely related to the ...
New Zealand companies are using their oligopolistic market power to gouge mega profits, driving up inflation. Overseas, such actions have resulted in windfall taxes, which have been used both to drive down inflation, and ameliorate its impacts (while driving down emissions). With New Zealand petrol companies pocketing record margins and ...
We’re helping more Kiwis into work, to help support whānau, grow our skilled workforce and secure our economy for future generations. During our time in Government, we’ve delivered record low unemployment rates, as well as a steady fall in the number of New Zealanders receiving a main benefit, and we’re ...
The Green Party once again calls on the Government to ban bottom trawling on all seamounts following the release of an industry white paper on so-called ‘sustainable’ trawling. ...
Urgent reform is essential to ensure disabled people have equal access to the care and support they need, the Green Party says in response to a new report that challenges politicians to fix the current system. ...
COVID-19 is here to stay and so the Government needs to put in place long-term protection measures, including mandatory ventilation standards, the Green Party says. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to overhaul the Recognised Seasonal Employers scheme in the wake of revelations of shocking human rights violations. ...
The Green Party is calling for a cross-party commitment to guaranteeing at least a living wage and safe working conditions to people seeking employment, instead of continuing benefit sanctions. ...
The Green Party is once again calling on the Government to announce its support for a moratorium on deep sea mining, and to support a member’s bill going to select committee. ...
The Government must take steps to ensure that the way we build our homes is helping to meet New Zealand’s climate change targets, the Green Party said. ...
The Government’s employment initiatives led by the Ministry of Social Development must guarantee liveable incomes and fair working conditions, the Green Party says. ...
New Zealanders deserve a health system that works for everyone, no matter who you are or where you live. Our Government has a plan to make this a reality, and we’re taking the next steps. We now have thousands more health professionals, such as doctors and nurses, working in New ...
During her time as Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern has navigated New Zealand through unprecedented times. Through it all, she’s become known as someone who leads with kindness, compassion and strength, while keeping the wellbeing of Kiwis at the heart of her approach. To celebrate five years of Jacinda leading the ...
Since taking office in 2017, our Government has worked hard to lift wages and make life more affordable for New Zealanders, as we move forward with our plan to grow a secure economy for all. ...
The Government must use the opportunity of the Electoral Amendment Bill in Parliament to close the loophole in the political donations regime, the Green Party says. ...
Thanks to political pressure from the Green Party and the more than 900 personal stories of birth injury and trauma delivered to Minister Sepuloni, more injuries have been added to the ACC birth injuries bill. ...
Supporting New Zealanders is at the heart of our approach as a Government, and we’re working hard to tackle the big issues Kiwis are facing. While long term challenges like child poverty won’t be solved overnight, we’re putting in place policies that make a real difference for New Zealanders. Here ...
Delegates at the AGM of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand have voted to retain Marama Davidson as Green Party co-leader and to re-open nominations for the other co-leader position. ...
The Tourism Industry Transformation Plan outlines key actions to improve the sector This includes a Tourism and Hospitality Accord to set employment standards Developing cultural competency within the workforce Improving the education and training system for tourism Equipping business owners and operators with better tools and enabling better work ...
Minister for the Digital Economy and Communications Dr David Clark welcomes Google Cloud’s decision to make New Zealand a cloud region. “This is another major vote of confidence for New Zealand’s growing digital sector, and our economic recovery from COVID 19,” David Clark said. “Becoming a cloud region will mean ...
A package of changes to NCEA and University Entrance announced today recognise the impact COVID-19 has had on senior secondary students’ assessment towards NCEA in 2022, says Associate Minister of Education Jan Tinetti. “We have heard from schools how significant absences of students and teachers, as a result of COVID-19, ...
Te Reo Māori tauparapara… Tapatapa tū ki te Rangi! Ki te Whei-ao! Ki te Ao-mārama Tihei mauri ora! Stand at the edge of the universe! of the spiritual world! of the physical world! It is the breath of creation Formal acknowledgments… [Your Highness Afioga Tuimalealiifano Vaaletoa Sualauvi II and Masiofo] ...
The Government’s commitment to combatting firearms violence has reached another significant milestone today with the passage of the Firearms Prohibition Order Legislation Bill, Police Minister Chris Hipkins says. The new law helps to reduce firearm-related crime by targeting possession, use, or carriage of firearms by people whose actions and behaviours ...
Minister for Veterans, Hon Meka Whaitiri sends her condolences to the last Battle for Crete veteran. “I am saddened today to learn of the passing of Cyril Henry Robinson known as Brant Robinson, who is believed to be the last surviving New Zealand veteran of the Battle for Crete, Meka ...
Legislation to repeal the ‘Three Strikes’ law has passed its third reading in Parliament. “The Three Strikes Legislation Repeal Bill ends an anomaly in New Zealand’s justice system that dictates what sentence judges must hand down irrespective of relevant factors,” Justice Minister Kiri Allan said. “The three strikes law was ...
Work is under way on preliminary steps to improve the Government’s support for survivors of abuse in care while a new, independent redress system is designed, Public Service Minister Chris Hipkins says. These steps – recommended by the Abuse in Care Royal Commission of Inquiry – include rapid payments for ...
Remembering Hiroshima and Nagasaki Online Forum 77 years ago today, an atomic bomb was dropped on the city of Nagasaki. Three days earlier, on the 6th of August 1945, the same fate had befallen the people of Hiroshima. Tens of thousands died instantly. In the years that followed 340,000 ...
An agreement signed today between the New Zealand and United States governments will provide new opportunities for our space sector and closer collaboration with NASA, Economic and Regional Development Minister Stuart Nash said. Stuart Nash signed the Framework Agreement with United States Deputy Secretary of State, Wendy Sherman. The signing ...
An agreement signed today between New Zealand’s National Emergency Management Agency (NEMA) and the United States’ Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) will strengthen global emergency management capability, says Minister for Emergency Management Kieran McAnulty. “The Government is committed to continually strengthening our emergency management system, and this Memorandum of Cooperation ...
New Zealand will remain at the Orange traffic light setting, while hospitalisations remain elevated and pressure on the health system continues through winter. “There’s still significant pressure on hospitals from winter illnesses, so our current measures have an ongoing role to play in reducing the number of COVID-19 cases and ...
Streets will soon be able to be transformed from unsafe and inaccessible corridors to vibrant places for all transport modes thanks to new legislation proposed today, announced Transport Minister Michael Wood. “We need to make it safe, quicker and more attractive for people to walk, ride and take public transport ...
More young minds eyeing food and fibre careers is the aim of new Government support for agricultural and horticultural science teachers in secondary schools, Agriculture and Rural Communities Minister Damien O’Connor announced today. The Government is committing $1.6 million over five years to the initiative through the Ministry for Primary ...
Kākāpō numbers have increased from 197 to 252 in the 2022 breeding season, and there are now more of the endangered parrots than there have been for almost 50 years, Conservation Minister Poto Williams announced today. The flightless, nocturnal parrot is a taonga of Ngāi Tahu and a species unique ...
The relationship between Aotearoa New Zealand and Malaysia is to be elevated to the status of a Strategic Partnership, to open up opportunities for greater co-operation and connections in areas like regional security and economic development. Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta met her Malaysian counterpart Dato’ Saifuddin Abdullah today during a ...
With additional trains operating across the network, powered by the Government’s investment in rail, there is need for a renewed focus on rail safety, Transport Minister Michael Wood emphasised at the launch of Rail Safety Week 2022. “Over the last five years the Government has invested significantly to improve level ...
The Foreign Minister has wrapped up a series of meetings with Indo-Pacific partners in Cambodia which reinforced the need for the region to work collectively to deal with security and economic challenges. Nanaia Mahuta travelled to Phnom Penh for a bilateral meeting between ASEAN foreign ministers and Aotearoa New Zealand, ...
Extension of Aotearoa Touring Programme supporting domestic musicians The Programme has supported more than 1,700 shows and over 250 artists New Zealand Music Commission estimates that around 200,000 Kiwis have been able to attend shows as a result of the programme The Government is hitting a high note, with ...
Minister of Defence Peeni Henare will depart tomorrow for Solomon Islands to attend events commemorating the 80th anniversary of the Battle of Guadalcanal. While in Solomon Islands, Minister Henare will also meet with Solomon Islands Minister of National Security, Correctional Services and Police Anthony Veke to continue cooperation on security ...
The Government is partnering with Ngāi Tahu Farming Limited and Ngāi Tūāhuriri on a whole-farm scale study in North Canterbury to validate the science of regenerative farming, Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor announced today. The programme aims to scientifically evaluate the financial, social and environmental differences between regenerative and conventional practices. ...
52.5% of people on public boards are women Greatest ever percentage of women Improved collection of ethnicity data “Women’s representation on public sector boards and committees is now 52.5 percent, the highest ever level. The facts prove that diverse boards bring a wider range of knowledge, expertise and skill. ...
I am honoured to support the 2022 Women in Governance Awards, celebrating governance leaders, directors, change-makers, and rising stars in the community, said Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio. For the second consecutive year, MPP is proudly sponsoring the Pacific Governance Leader category, recognising Pacific women in governance and presented to ...
Today Economic and Regional Development Minister Stuart Nash turned the sod for the new Whakatāne Commercial Boat Harbour, cut the ribbon for the revitalised Whakatāne Wharf, and inspected work underway to develop the old Whakatāne Army Hall into a visitor centre, all of which are part of the $36.8 million ...
New Zealanders are not getting a fair deal on some key residential building supplies and while the Government has already driven improvements in the sector, a Commerce Commission review finds that changes are needed to make it more competitive. “New Zealand is facing the same global cost of living and ...
Mana in Mahi reaches a milestone surpassing 5,000 participants 75 per cent of participants who had been on a benefit for two or more years haven’t gone back onto a benefit 89 per cent who have a training pathway are working towards a qualification at NZQA level 3 or ...
The Government has invested $7.7 million in a research innovation hub which was officially opened today by Minister of Research, Science and Innovation Dr Ayesha Verrall. The new facility named Te Pā Harakeke Flexible Labs comprises 560 square metres of new laboratory space for research staff and is based at ...
Unemployment has remained near record lows thanks to the Government’s economic plan to support households and businesses through the challenging global environment, resulting in more people in work and wages rising. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate was 3.3 percent in the June quarter, with 96,000 people classed out ...
Action to address the risks identified in the 2020 climate change risk assessment, protecting lives, livelihoods, homes, businesses and infrastructure A joined up approach that will support community-based adaptation with national policies and legislation Providing all New Zealanders with information about local climate risks via a new online data ...
Māori with mental health and addiction challenges have easier access to care thanks to twenty-nine Kaupapa Māori primary mental health and addiction services across Aotearoa, Associate Minister of Health Peeni Henare says. “Labour is the first government to take mental health seriously for all New Zealanders. We know that Māori ...
A Bill which updates New Zealand’s statistics legislation for the 21st century has passed its third and final reading today, Minister of Statistics David Clark said. The Data and Statistics Act replaces the Statistics Act, which has been in effect since 1975. “In the last few decades, national data and ...
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Sign the petition get the government to recommit to Elimination.
NZ Government: Recommit to elimination of COVID-19
https://www.change.org/p/nz-government-recommit-to-elimination-of-covid-19?
Have you not witnessed what has happened in pretty much ever other country around the world Jenny? The horse has bolted, this petition is futile.
We need to eliminate to save people's lives and people's health.
We need to eliminate to save our health system and look after the people who work in it.
We need to eliminate to save our economy.
we need pixies and fairies too, but like elimination, that is not going to happen in the real world
Over rising concerns about the economic harm to the business community and the economy. The government ignored the health experts not to lower the Level 4 Alert in Auckland.
Now they are ignoring them again.
All politics is pressure. Politicaal pressure from the business community on the government to surrender to the virus, must be countered by pressure from below not to.
If you think public health should be a priority before private wealth.
Sign the petition:
https://www.change.org/p/nz-government-recommit-to-elimination-of-covid-19
Most other countries never tried elimination, Alan. those that did, such as New South Wales and Victoria, botched the job by leaving it early, with damage to both lives and their economy.
Waste of time. If NZ goes back to level 4 for say the next 24 months, we will eliminate it. Great. As soon as we open up, Covid will return. You cant live under a rock forever hiding from something that you are in fear of.
However, treatments that are more effective may well be developed, saving lives, communities and businesses.
Said the hiker about the bear.
Actually, it would be less than a couple of months, with full compliance.
But if it was 24 months, most of the covid strains would be much more mild, because they ones that kill their hosts die sooner. E.g. the 19818 flu waves by the mid-twenties.
Is this a veiled threat?
jester/hiker/bear = covid/cameraman/warthog
Good video. Brave man to let a warthog get that close as they are vicious.
But I don't really see what the video has to do with anything?
Brave?
Or did he have an overinflated opinion of his ability to control something that he should have feared?
Virus isn't so bad, see, we can come out from under our rock and live with it…[voice of reason – probably best we don't even try living with it] ..right up until you're treed in a rondavel squeaking help, help meee…
Not necessarily, as current vaccines dont sterlize the virus there is a possibility a more potent and resistant strain that is able to overcome vaccination emerges to prominence in which case all bets are off.
You and I can bet that will happen (and I only bet on things that I evaluate as near sure things – ie I seldom gamble for money at all). The only real issue is the timing.
Natural immunity is also pretty well impossible with this particular virus apart from the longer term prospect. Eventually it kills off or causes every one who gets it to not breed well. There are known verified cases where people have caught variants or even the same variant of covid-19 after having a previous infection with covid-19 – as well as the same kinds of breakthrough infections with fully vaccinated.
There is a reason why the bat populations where the disease originated have the probably the most ferocious immune systems we know of in mammals. Long-term selection from this disease and other socially endemic diseases being endemic in their populations.
Ultimately we need to manage to get a sterilising vaccine or treatment because otherwise this disease will probably eventually crush our health systems. The incidence and time extent of long-covid is too high.
I suspect that repeated exposures are going to wear down the peoples immune systems. If covid-19 doesn't get you then something else will.
The reason that our more complex health systems work (and our life expectancy in the west keep rising) is because we have managed to reduce the wear and tear of diseases on the immune systems with public health measures over the past 150 years. At present I'm expecting that to reverse for most of this decade with this disease.
That's sobering. I wish NZ was talking about this more, far too many people think we're going back to normal next year.
What are your thoughts on the Auckland outbreak and what should be done at the moment, in the context of the bigger and longer picture above?
Well, it's not so much a case of "overcoming" vaccination as random mutations eventually tweak the main protein most vaccines currently help the immune system to target. Like the flu vaccine does – why some of use get new flu shots every year: it's not just because the previous year's vax has worn off somehow, it's because while the Northern Hemisphere was having their flu season some new varients emerged.
But the thing about more harmful variants is that they get spotted sooner (because people get seriously ill rather than not noticing a sniffle), and are prioritised for research/medications/vaccines more highly. So they still have less of a reproductive advantage than essentially harmless variants.
Probably one more week in level 4 would have been enough; now it may take another 3 weeks to achieve it. Worth it for level 1 or 2 by Christmas.
Yes but how would you get full compliance from the gangs? It makes no difference to them whether its level 1,2,3 or 4.
Fair call to a degree, but they're not complete morons, either. Most of them know that being the only ones on the street increases the odds of getting stopped. Some of the more stupid ones demonstrated that.
But also, even without perfect compliance with L4 the problem isn't so much the gangs as the possibility of wholesale rejection of controls, like in Melbourne. An indeterminate purgatory of half the population in lockdown and the other half listening to infantile opinionators in the media or religious frauds.
Someone at the dirty end of criminal activity is not getting essential worker status for that. "Covid compliance" is an even broader brush for stops and arrests (and the concomitant vehicle search for officer safety) than breach of the peace or traffic infringement. It's literally an excuse to arrest anyone in public if they're not essential workers or with a reasonable excuse to be out.
So assuming that they're okay with disease ravaging their community and families, the leaders of all criminal enterprises would need to ask themselves whether a limited hiatus on earning is more cost-effective than actively losing earnings and distribution staff to law enforcement. Hell, the government could allow suspected leaders of such organisations to travel into restricted areas in order to deliver that message personally. Along with other leaders of disaffected and socially alienated communities (in the general idea that maybe community leaders have more credibility with the members of those communities than might be the domain of official government representatives).
24 months?
Surely you joke, Jester.
24 months is a hysterical over exageration of the time needed to achieve elimination.
The Level 4 Lockdown in Auckland almost killed off the Delta covid varient, before it was lifted early before it had finished its job.
Another one, possibly two more weeks, would have eliminated it completely.
And we would be back in Level 1 by now.
This TVNZ timeline graph shows the whole sorry tale.
The Level 4 Lockdown was put in place on 17 August. Daily infections reached a peak of 86 before plateuing around August 30 and then started dropping sharply about the 1st of September. As the Level 4 Alert started to take effect, daily cases kept dropping to a low of 22 cases on 21 September. Against expert public health advice. On 21 September the Level 4 Alert was dropped to Level 3, despite 22 daily cases, two of which could not be linked to any known cluster. Eight days later the infections started rising again. And haven't stopped rising.
The above photo of the TVNZ timeline graph doesn't quite capture the full awfulness of the government's retreat from elimination.
After lowering the Level 4 Alert to Level 3 and numbers started rising, the government loosened restrictions in Auckland even futher.
See photo in link below.
https://asiapacificreport.nz/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/TVNZ-graph-101021-680wide.png
Yes 24 months is an exageration, but a Level 4 lockdown for say 12 weeks then, would eliminate. But guess what? Covid would still come back and pop up again.
I hope they don't do any more level 4 lockdowns as by December everyone that wants to be vaccinated will be. But I do hope they have increased ICU capacity at hospitals.
90% vaccination of the eligible population is a good practical achievable target to aim for, 95% vaccination of the total population is what is needed.
Maybe when the vaccine is approved for use on over 5s we could get near that figure.
Even then, more ICU beds will be needed.
We are at war and our government are surrendering.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126671440/covid19-virus-will-sweep-through-auckland-after-level-3-loosening-modeller-warns
I don't think the government are surrendering. I think they realise that people will only be locked down for so long. Eventually life has to go on. I'm in Auckland and many people are already over it. People at Okahu Bay and Mission Bay have been at level 1 for the last few weeks anyway. This step one of level 3 where you can have a picnic with another bubble, as the govt know, people have been doing this for weeks already.
And as for the gangs…well it's always been level one for them as we hear on the news (and then they have the audacity to not be cooperative with the authorities).
"There is no such thing as bad soldiers, only bad generals" Napoleon
Now I am sure that Napoleon's army had the usual minority of drunkards, deserters, and trouble makers of any army. Of course there is such a thing as bad soldiers. The point that Napoleon was making is that he or his generals could not put the blame for their failures on this minority.
The minority of rule breakers including the gangs and sex workers rough sleepers, drug addicts, and the other marginalised communities make for a handy scapegoat. But they are not the major source of the current uncontrolled spread of the virus.
If enough people do it, just like vaccination, Lockdown creates herd immunity. Just like vaccination, if enough people do it, Lockdown protects the minority of people who don't.
To make my point, one of the most egregious cases of rule breaking and the one you alluded to, was the case of the two sex workers that traveled through Northland on false essential worker credentials, and then refused to tell the authorities who they had met with or where they had been. Surely this must be a worst case of rule breaking by two individuals. But this rare and unusual case, did not result in a mass spreader event and Northland has just been downgraded to Level 2.
So where should we look for the failure of this country's covid response?
When the Level 4 alert for Auckland was lowered. 200,000 workers who had been isolatiing at home were ordered back to work.
There is your daily mass spreader event right there.
https://asiapacificreport.nz/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/TVNZ-graph-101021-680wide.png
The real cause of the current uncontrolled rise in covid invections is revealed in the TVNZ timeline graph, above. The timeline clearly shows the dramatic rise in cases following the Level 4 lockdown being lifted.
Just as you say, Jester. It has always been level one for the minority of rule breakers like the gangs. But despite the actions of this tiny minority, the virus was being crushed under Level 4.
From a high of 83 around about August 30 followed by a dramatic drop, to single figures around about September 22, followed by a rise, beginning eight days, after the lifting of the Level 4 lockdown, (the incubation period of the virus). An upward rise in cases that has continued.
The change in government policy not the gangs is the cause of the current rise.
So after all that waffle, what is your solution? Stay in level 4 forever? When / if we finally get to level 2 there will probably be a further rise in cases but wont matter as enough people vaccinated so mostly recover at home. I want to know what Auckland has to do to get to open up to at least level 2. Is it 90% vaccinated? 95%? And I'm sure there is a few restaurants, bars, hairdressers and shops that would love to know. But after todays announcement they are none the wiser other than they are out of business for a further two weeks at least and still don't know what Auckland needs to do until at least Friday.
Again you exagerate and fear monger to oppose proven measures of stopping preventable illness and deaths. This fearmongering and exageration prevents us debating the real matters that are in the balance to be decided.
The health experts and epidemic modelers have called on the government to apply a "circuit breaker" Level 4 lockdown to stop the rate of infection reaching into to triple figures.
So far the government have refused to heed this health advice.
"I want to know what Auckland has to do to get to open up to at least level 2. Is it 90% vaccinated? 95%?" Jester
Part of the answer to this question, Jester, has been supplied by the Auckland District Health board, who have stated that at 90% vaccination rate they are preparing the hospitals for 6 deaths and 33 hospitalisations a week.
The real question Jester, that is in the balance to be decided, is how much preventable death and illness will we accept in return, for business as usual?
The government has not made it explicit, but it seems that 6 preventable deaths and 33 preventable hospital admissions is acceptable to them as the price for fully opening up the economy and to hell with kindness.
"And I'm sure there is a few restaurants, bars, hairdressers and shops that would love to know. But after todays announcement they are none the wiser other than they are out of business for a further two weeks at least and still don't know what Auckland needs to do until at least Friday." Jester
https://asiapacificreport.nz/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/TVNZ-graph-101021-680wide.png
From the graph above, you can see that we were very close to nation wide elimination under the Level 4 Auckland Alert. If the government had not lost its nerve. we could be at Level 1 now. Not a certainty, but the sharp downward heading trend did seem to show that. Of course we will never no for sure now.
Certainty was lost when government abandoned the Alert Level System and replaced it with the Three Step Roadmap to reopen the borders.
As you can clearly see on the graph, Stage One and no doubt the other steps to come on this Roadmap, are to be applied even as infections continue to climb. But reality has turned the Roadmap into a vague and confusing mess, with little certainty of anything. Only the first step or stage has been completed, with no idea of when the others steps will occur, or even if the Roadmap still exists.
But at least we are getting down to the real reasons for the refusal to continue the Elimination Strategy, which is the economic hardship on business and small proprietors. Nothing to do with gangs or sex workers or the minority of rule breakers. Which are just handy scapegoats for our failure to prioritise lives and public health over business interests.
Don't get me wrong Jester, the destruction and turmoil and economic hardship and pain being visited on small business and households from lockdown is very real and a concern to me. But this paiin is not being shared equally. The big banks and financiers have had no lockdown.
If we really wanted to eliminate the virus and return us to Level 1, we would impose a Level 4 Lockdown with a full rent and mortgage moratorium to help households and business ride out the hardship.
This meaure is not unheard of. A moratorium on mortgages was implemented in 1914 due to the crisis brought about by the World War. And in 1931 a mortgage and rent moratorium was brought in due to the crisis of the World Economic Depression.
Obviously the government does not think that the current Covid crisis is as severe as these past crises, or they would have implemented the same emergency measures.
You asked me Jester;
"So after all that waffle, what is your solution?"
That's my solution. Nationwide Level 4 Lockdown with full rent and mortgage moratorium until the virus is eliminated.
Afterall is said and done, it is not like the big Aussie owned banks, which take $3.5b out of our economy and off shore, every year, can't afford it.
P.S. You may think this crisis is not severe enough to warrant such extreme measures, but the people who sicken and end up in hospital and families of those directly affected may disagree.
So we have a harder than level 4 lockdown for (who knows how long) a time period including rent moratoriums etc. and we end up with say 14 days of no cases! Awesome. Then we open up and a few weeks later the virus comes back again and we start getting cases again. Then what? Another lockdown?
Possibly, but more likely everyone is vaccinated by then. (At least everyone who can be vaccinated.) And resulting deaths and illness are minimal and as small as possibly could be achieved.
It's this interim period we are talking about, where it has been decided to let the virus rip even while the population has not yet reached the target 90% vaccination level.
(The end of lockdown could be the carrot/whip to encourage vaccination, unfortunately this carrot and whip has been ruled out, ensureing that vaccination will not be as high as it possibly could have been, if the government had stayed the course.)
I admire your honesty in that you admit to this trade off in preventable deaths and illness has been made for the good of the economy.
We are not seeing this honesty being admitted in many places.
Early on worksites were identified by the Prime Minister as the source of spread of the Virus even under Level 4, despite this, infections kept dropping. That is until the Level 4 Alert was lifted on the 21st of September and 200,000 Auckland workers returned to their workplaces to mingle and spread the virus. One week later the infections which had been on a steep decline, began the upward trend, which hasn't stopped. On October 4, despite the continueing rise in infections, restrictions were loosened again.
Level 4 can can compensate for the minority of rule breakers. The looser Level 3 cannot.
Honesty means admitting that it was government policy that decided to let the virus rip for the good of the economy at the cost of public health.
Unfortunately your honesty in admitting this fact, is not being followed by our policy makers who are embarked on major frenzy of finger pointing and blamestorming the tiny minority of rule breakers for the current outbreak due to their change in policy direction.
This dishonesty does not inspire confidence in our leadership. Or even the certainty that business crave.
Two millionaires horse breeders who broke lockdown to fly to Queensland, did not lead to an outbreak. Two sex workers who toured the North, did not lead to an outbreak. A wild party on the North Shore attended by 50 people, looks unlikely to lead to an outbreak.
The government has embarked on a policy of letting the virus rip.
But rather than accept responsibility, the screaming headlines for the next couple of weeks, as hospital admissions rise and deaths start occuring, will be concentrated on the rule breakers as the cause.
The honest thing to do would be admit to the policy change behind the rising infections and put it to the public for their support.
Dishonesty does not engender confidence.
"There is no such thing a bad soldiers only bad generals" Napoleon
As the health experts have said, kissing goodbye to level 4 means kissing goodbye to level 1.
So say goodbye to a Covid Free Christtmas and summer.
So reading this, all you are suggesting is giving people more time to get vaccinated ie. up over the 90% or whatever.
"Possibly, but more likely everyone is vaccinated by then. (At least everyone who can be vaccinated.) And resulting deaths and illness are minimal and as small as possibly could be achieved."
I say no to that, people need to be get off their backsides and get vaccinated NOW if they want to. Else take their chances unvaccinated if that is what they want. They can be fully vaccinated by December the 1st if they get vaccinated now. But the rest of us (the vaxinated majority) cant be held back forever waiting.
Personally, if it was up to me, I would say, you've already had your chance to get vaccinated (taxis, buses, KFC vouchers, other vouchers and a vaxathon and various other financial incentives have been oferred) and we are opening up on 1st of November.
'Devil take the hindmost', (as the saying goes). Eh Jester?
Weka puts it best:
As well as trashing our international reputation for protecting the welfare and health of our most vulnerable. There is another serious flaw in your plan to sacrifice others' lives and health, just so you can open up the country by November.
The fact is, that at the very best, vaccines are only 90% effective. Vaccination approachs 100% effectiveness in stopping the spread of a viral infection, the more people get vaccinated. The so called 'herd immunity' does not just protect the unvaccinated, it also protects the fully vaccinated by filling in for that 10% failure rate.
That is how vaccination works. It is how we eliminated polio.
What this means, is that below 90% vaccination coverage, even some of the fully vaccinated can still catch the virus, and sicken and possibly even die.
Who knows, it could even by you, or one of your loved ones.
So purely on a selfish basis it is in your interest to get as many others vaccinated as possible before opening up.
I don’t think much of your plan to sacrifice the old and also put at risk our health care workers who have sacrificed so much for us during this pandemic.
And what for? So the Aussie owned banks can keep screwing this country into the ground even during a pandemic?
P.S. So far, no country has yet been able to achieve herd immunity levels of vaccination against Covid-19. New Zealand could be the first. I think it is a worthy goal to attempt. We were the first country to show that elimination was possible to world acclaim. Another world first in the global fight against Covid-19, would do wonders for this country's international reputation. And on a purely personal note, my father is 86, and fully vaccinated. My father still enjoys life. I wouldn't want him to die of a fully preventable disease because of your selfishness.
Colin Powell died of cancer.
It sounds like we will simply have to agree to disagree then. Locking down a town / city /country indefinitely simply wont work.
It would be interesting to know how many people have died due to the lockdowns. This Covid outbreak this year has killed 2 people, one in their nineties, and one in their fifties with health issues. I'm sure the mental health and procedures and treatments postponed have probably killed more.
Really?
You started this thread by falsely claiming that the latest outbreak is the result of the minority of rule breakers.
Then you moved on, to say that those that didn't get immunised deserved to sicken and die.
To which I pointed out that without achieving herd immunity some of the fully vaccinated will also sicken and possibly even die.
Now, to fit your narrative that we must reopen by November, you claimed that Colin Powel didn't die of Covid -19, but died of cancer.
Yes, Colin Powel did have cancer, but it wasn't a fatal kind.
Another lie is that lockdown has caused more deaths than not locking down.
All statistics of a drop in background deaths from all causes during lockdown, disprove this Lie. Even deaths from suicide declined under Level 4 Lockdown.
https://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/article/undoctored/weekly-deaths-declined-nzs-lockdown-we-still-dont-know-exactly-why
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-fewer-suicides-during-lockdown-level-4-chief-coroner/Z6R2IN5LN67LNLYDADTSTNWSIE/
The fact is that lockdown stops our hospitals from becoming overwhelmed, preventing people who could otherwise be treated of curable illness and accidents getting a bed, because all the beds, especially, critical care beds are filled up with covid patients.
To argue the opposite against the facts is to go against all reason.
Frankly Jester. I am disappointed. From arguing that we need to balance the loss of lives against the economic harm of Lockdown, which is a fair point, and an honest position to debate, you have reverted to lieing.
But I can understand why you might feel motivated to dissemble. Because when faced with a pandemic, the main reason for opposing lockdown, is the prioritising of making money over people's lives and health, is a motive repulsive to most people, possibly if you dared admit to it, repulsive to your self.
Re the govt's pivot toward North Korea in response to Key's prompt, will we see him leaping excitedly about in front of the news camera yelling "Told ya so!! Got it right! State compulsion!"?
Folks here yesterday pointing out that it's actually state coercion are technically correct – but will those on the receiving end feel the difference? I'm inclined to doubt it.
So will the govt now open an embassy in NK? Send an ambassador to tell the wee fat guy "Hey, we do rockets, just like you! We do state control of citizens too! Any other bright ideas?" His response: "Cool, yes! Take out bad cabinet minsters with anti-aircraft gun! Sends message to other ministers: do as told!"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyon_Yong-chol
Bit late to apply retrospectively to Twyford & Clark I guess, but you can see how the PM would open the following cabinet meeting: "Right, the North Korean option. Here's where we're going with this…"
Think it was Key's idea for the telethon type thing as well this weekend.
Thought that was quite funny.
Bit of a side story. But something I found interesting.
Seymour's End of life choice Act comes in, in less than a month.
They have published how much Doctors and other medical staff will get who chose to carry out the procedure.
$1087.20 a time.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300428689/assisted-dying-doctors-to-be-paid-1087-to-perform-procedure-starting-next-month
That is interesting.
Disturbing that it is essentially the same as a midwife is paid to deliver a life into this world.
Really?
Wouldn't actually surprise me if that was what they based it on.
On the media's undermining of the public health response to covid.
https://badnewsletter.substack.com/p/the-fifth-columnists
I never even finished reading that. He shows up the opinionist critics as complete tossers so well by about halfway thru I didn’t have any desire to be further depressed by reading on about how ill-informed & ridiculous the perennial critics like Soper & HDPA, & Mike Hosking & Kate Hawkesby are.
Shock jockism at its worst.
I hope everybody can find the time to read that piece. It is the most comprehensive round-up of the idiotic reckons which infect the "debate". Grim but essential reading. Worth bookmarking.
We already had made those observations on this site. Especially damning reviews of Soper and Duplicity A. Hoskins and his wife are entitled wind bags, whose write ups are back and forth to reflect the vacillations of a stirrer
*Hosking. Mike Hosking. Not Hoskins.
When you're slagging somebody off it's the done thing to get their name right.
Isn't that Horeskin?
No, apparently it’s The Hosk, to those in the loop.
Covid's greatest secret weapon is it creates no visible marks.
Maybe we'll have to wait until a covid mutation of concern (bound to happen) that gives people covid fingers, or covid nose rather than covid toe – something people can see, like a body covered in pustules, before the opinionists take a public health response of elimination seriously.
Then they can helpfully rage if the elimination is too slow.
That is one seriously long winded way of someone saying they don't agree with other peoples opinions and only their's is right
No, he's saying that the people with those opinions don't agree with their own opinions, depending on the toss of a coin that day. The opinions aren't based on a good-faith analysis of the evidence, but only on the requirement to have opinions.
It's only "long-winded" because there are so many examples to cite.
First tactic: there's no evidence;
if that is patently false, choose between "yawn" and "explaining is losing".
Great critique of NZ's 5th column ‘opinionists’ – the inconvenience this pandemic has caused Hosking/Hawkesby/Soper/HDP/Roughan/Yardley/Bridge et al. is heartbreaking.

Yeah that graph says it all, eh? Presuming it's accurate (recalling the old adage re lies, damn lies, & statistics). Doesn't give the right any leverage at all. And all that hoo-hah for months about opening the border to get back to business as usual got their credibility destroyed by Delta. It's like they want to pretend the contagion ain't real. But I suppose you could argue it's just the old ruling class social darwinist stance getting a re-run. Collateral damage is tolerable, I bet they think, assuming it won't happen to them…
It's almost as if having a sick population is bad for your wealth…
I see a few teacher have resigned over mandatory vac.
Good that they are out of the classroom.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-schools-out-small-numbers-of-teachers-quit-over-mandated-vaccinations/B4YNDASC2UCJJROPY3WQ42N7VY/
3
They wouldn't be destiny church connected at all would they?
I enjoyed reading this bit:
Every post a winning post for the anti-vaxxers?
Yes thanks I saw that too.
If they sourced a vaccine for those whose bodies cannot handle the glycol lipids in the vaccine then 10 % more people could be vaccinated. Might mean we save a few teachers !
I had thought they had done this. A couple of immuno compromised people I know have had and will have access to different vaccines on an invitation basis on specific days for vaccination. One I had heard had said her day was later this month.
Of course this depends on being noted by your GP and the person working with their GP/MOH and not just a fanciful "I am intolerant to…….. ie I have done my own self diagnosis, " or I don't want to have that…..'
There is much hot air about this.
United Airlines gave its staff of 67,000 an ultimatum re vaccination and by the time the deadline had passed only 320 were unvaccinated.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/30/uniteds-unvaccinated-staff-drops-from-593-to-320-after-company-said-they-would-be-fired.html
Vaccine mandates are the fastest way we now have to stabilise the superiority of scientific truth against social media truth, and simultaneously keep us all safe.
That's elegantly, and ruthlessly, put, Ad. May I borrow it 🙂
Vaccine mandates are also constrained by scientific truth,where as say vaccine breakthrough is higher those with substance use disorders (SUD )
Here it seems those with Cannabis use disorder seem to be at greater risk of breakthrough infection .
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wps.20921
A scientific truth would also allow for an endorsement on the vaccine passport stating that the holder is still a risk,due to cannabis use disorder.
In a fast-arriving future in which Auckland goes into hundreds of cases per day, one can see an international passport's biometric scan information also gets used (it always starts with mere convenience) by AirNZ, Kiwirail Interislander, and Police as a means to enforce travel between New Zealand regions. Or even moreso, a medical i.d. stronger than an app, with remarkably low privacy settings for state database interoperability.
That kind of all-travel biometric could take in all kinds of herbal proclivities.
Utopia!
Yes, for the safety of everyone lets have more mandates from our sole source of truth.
Maybe a newspaper would be useful…
A recent Nobel Peace Prize winner said, "A world without facts means a world without truth and trust." – Maria Ressa 2021
A relative recently said to me:
You can take this KFC drumstick …
Out of my cold dead hand.
Having just returned from a bar after 2 different but beautiful Belgian triples, I understand your point. Some would still die with a bottle of Speights in their cold dead hand. What is familiar, What is trusted. What is liked. Not necessarily what is good.
The proposal seems to be acceptable.
You should have aspiration in your life, but you are not allowed aspiration during vaccination.
nah, it'll be the millenium bug all over again – we opened up and didn't have the crematoria running overtime, so obviously there was nothing to worry about.
Can you link where you got the 10% number from?
There was this article earlier in the week: Covid 19: 'Almost no one' in Australia medically exempt from coronavirus vaccinations – health expert
It mentions that 1 in 100,000 could be allergic (not anywhere close to 1 in 10).
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-almost-no-one-in-australia-medically-exempt-from-coronavirus-vaccinations-health-expert/TLNOOEJD2VCUVCAZACHN5HSAZY/
[correct link added – weka]
Self styled I am sure and possibly only a few would actually be immuno compromised or have allergic issues.
Interesting that link has been removed!!!!
My mistake… Look here
Thanks
just to clarify, there is a difference between medically exempt, and those having reactions to the vaccine that mainstream medicine doesn't consider relevant to public health but may still be relevant to the individual. Distinct again from people fearful because of anti-vax beliefs. Not a lot of research for the middle group to help make decisions unfortunately.
Hone Harawira's lost the plot. Doing his rag with the F word again. 🙄
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-northlanders-could-wait-weeks-to-see-alleged-border-breachers-charged/24HP3HT7YRVPA3KFYM64I5MS7A/
his position seems reasonable to me. Essentially he wants a much tighter border between Auckland and Northland so Northland people can focus on the vaccination programme in a calmer manner rather than the panic that's happening now. All of that to protect people most vulnerable to a covid infection.
Hone cares and has vulnerable people to protect. He is fed up with incursions, I agree with you Weka.
So do I, but that shocker of a hot-headed, foul-mouthed temper he sometimes displays leads him into fucking avoidable trouble sometimes.
I don't think Harawira's lost the plot. I think he's being quite mild.
A woman and her mate travelled to Northland when they should not have. From what has been published one of them at least conned the system. At least one of them had covid.
Neither of them were forthcoming with the details of their trip. One of them it seems went out of her way to avoid being questioned and still is not fully co-operative.
Ignore the fact that they may have come to Northland deposited Covid, departed and apparently had no compunction about what they could have left behind. Ignore all the direct health angles.
At the moment 194,000 Northlanders are living their lives according to the dictates of the actions of the two women.
Hone Harawira and the region's leaders are being very measured.
Oh? Swearing? Using the fucking word for reporters is being measured, is it?
From someone who’s a former MP & a well-known (& generally well-liked by some, including me) public figure?
Do you want Jacinda Ardern to use the fucking word in interviews about the Auckland women cheating their way into Northland too? Or Chris Hipkins? Or Ashleigh Bloomfield? Or Kelvin Davis?
Would that be “measured” of them. Take your time to think before replying about the others. Because if you don’t approve of them using profanities, I’m interested in why it doesn’t bother you when Hone Harawira does, but it would bother you if THEY did.
perhaps most of us dont phucking care. dont waste our phucking time by ignoring hone's message.
By your reckoning Harawira's lost the plot because he used the particular word.
The Herald quoted him as saying, "We need to slam the f****** door on Auckland. Let's focus on us and healing ourselves."
In August the Herald carried a story of the Ombudsman saying a college should apologise to a schoolboy who'd been expelled for swearing at a teacher.
According to the report the boy told the teacher to "f*** off."
Of course the boy didn't say "f*** off." He said "Fuck off." Everyone knows that. Why didn't the Herald print it like that? We can handle seeing it written without it being written fully? Bizarre. If the word is so offensive they should not have used it at all. The Herald obviously considered quoting Harawira verbatim was acceptable. If they didn't they wouldn't have used it.
The Ombudsman didn't think it was the end of the world when it was used directly at someone I an aggressive tone.
fucking | ˈfʌkɪŋ | adjective [attributive] & adverb [as submodifier] vulgar slang used for emphasis or to express anger, annoyance, contempt, or surprise.
Harawira used the word in that sense. His anger was directed at the situation not the individuals who deserve much forceful language directed at them. How angry is he? Enough to voice it in a way which gets attention. A pity the attention is on a word not the reason for the anger, whether it is justified and whether the situation he addresses could have been avoided.
So Jacinda Ardern doesn’t care enuf to swear about it? Is that what you’re saying?
Or are you saying some public figures can swear addressing reporters & it’s not a problem?
Which ones? And which ones shouldn’t?
Because Jacinda Ardern doesn't express herself like that means she doesn’t care? That's silly. Everyone has their own way of expressing things. Public figures address reporters as they wish.
Over aeons politicians have fraternised with journalists. Relationships mean a politician describing another as an 'arsehole' isn't going to be published like that. Not seeing or hearing it it doesn't mean that florid language hasn't been used.
The Herald thinks the word is offensive enough to not use it fully, to sort of pretend to use it but not so offensive as to not use it at all.
Hone diminishes his mana using profanities in public. Everybody does.
That’s why Ardern & the others don’t do it in public.
Thank you.
You may sit back down again. 👍🏼
God was taking a morning saunter through Heaven looking windswept and interesting as is his want when he comes across this sorry looking new arrival and says to him “ What the fuck are you doing here? “ the recently worldly resident replies “ I died of Covid “ , “ Why weren’t you vaccinated “ says God , “ Because I prayed to you to send me help and it didn’t come “ ,” You dumb shit, I sent you Ashley, and Michael and Shaun, the one with the funny hair and Jacinda, now fuck off back to Purgatory to have a think about it and get vacced while you’re about it, and don’t think you’re getting back in here until then” .
Good one 😄
Governments climate policy descending into farce
https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/126663599/govt-puts-ideas-to-slash-emissions-out-for-feedback–asks-people-business-to-fill-gaps
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/pat-baskett-bring-forward-our-net-zero-goal
Shaw warned us that he would not have anything organised for Glasgow, because of consultation blablabla.
But by the time he comes back mid-November he then runs a higher risk of not getting the figures and costs into the Treasury Budget cycle for 2022 to implement the Big Whole Of Government plan.
That would be a thing, both operationally and politically.
.
Ella & Elvis: The Movie. Ella learns to lock up when she goes out – watch out for the rat at 3.07…
Cute Geeza
'Hey wait up gorgeous' says Elvis to Ella was it?
'I wonder if my washing is wet'
Fabulous Gezza.
I was a bit scared to watch it at first because of the rat.
I have a blackbird friend who for the third year running has made the nest in a shrub outside my kitchen window and I found a little tiny bird outside on the lawn and no doubt a rat has been. I will put a good nature trap there. My neighbour has an anything goes compost bin and I often get her rats exploring. Not that I don't have them but I poison and my compost bins have got wirenetting barriers.
I want to know why bats have been included in the Bird of the Year competition.
Bats are not birds. Bats should not be included. Though of course I support them.
Yes, it's a contentious decision. They are cute as all get out, teeny little NZ long-tailed bats – but they're definitely NOT birds. Bad call to include them, imo.
Yeah, bad call.
Poor bats though, it's not like NZ would ever have a Mammal of the Year competition.
Mammal of the year?
I thought that this met the bill for that competition. Actually I was quite surprised when I Googled this to find that the competition still exists. I was expecting to have to say something like. "But they used to. Back in the 1960's etc etc"
https://www.teaomaori.news/northland-beauty-wins-miss-new-zealand-2020
Aye, the decision to include bats "is expected to ruffle a few feathers"
It's just a PR stunt to draw attention to the 'competition.'
What do you think, next year as a PR thing Hector's dolphins will be on the list?
Petitions seem to be all the go lately, maybe all birds can get one together.
On the positive side I suppose it shows lateral thinking. Favourite for Sportsperson of the Year? Lorde. Favourite for Entertainer of the Year? Margaret Mahy. Butcher of the Year? Israel Adesanya?
Nope I had nothing to with this
Oh I don't know.. It's got P R all over it. And you only have to look at them to see that they are puckish little rogues.
They are very cute
How did you get that large image (at the URL) to fit inside the Comment box, Macro?
Every time I’ve tried to use the image tool to post an image here it’s posted outsized, hasn’t all fitted in the Comment space.
The trick is to post and then to edit after the original url for the image add
width="450"
👌🏼 Thanks Macro. 👍🏼
I have a candidate for New Zealander of the Year.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/126657633/a-very-brave-and-special-person-tributes-pour-in-for-wellington-teen-who-raised-more-than-550000-for-cancer-research
Maybe because they're our only mammal and have no-one else to play with? Perhaps we should be inclusive and change the name of the competition.
I don't see a lot of evidence of your prior support of bats. Do you have any particular reason for denying bats the affirmation they must feel from being included in the competition? In fact – have you even asked them?
Oh here we go with the usual BERP propaganda.
Buzz Extension and Resistance Piece? What's trumpet playing got to do with it?
https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/126663599/govt-puts-ideas-to-slash-emissions-out-for-feedback
This is seriously underwhelming and lacking in ambition… nuclear free moment my arse.
I doubt anything James Shaw has to say will be taken seriously in Glasgow…
very depressing. I still reckon it's going to take a major grass roots effort to get teh govt to act.
Is it worth James Shaw's and by proxy the Greens reputation to be actually presenting this stuff to the public and holding the line that its the right path as far as climate change is concerned?
Would it be better to pull the pin very publicly and say Labour wasnt prepared to do enough and if you want meaningful action on climate you need to vote Green?
James has too much riding on this to quit before Glasgow, and he's signed the Greens up to this response as Minister.
But if ever there were an issue that could splinter the Greens, it would be Shaw's agreed response to climate change.
The modus operandi of this government is very difficult to pick on that score.
On the one hand it can go big such as with nationalising hospitals. On the other hand when it gets lots of public pressure on a specific item like a cycleway it kills the project.
Most of the time, unless there's an immediate crisis, Ardern only acts when the rest of the country begs her to. It's very awwwwwwwshucks you made me. In those respects Ardern is very similar to her predecessor John Key. Both were outstanding at reforms directly after crises, but day to day just went with the flow.
The huge rural protest was no issue to them electorally, but the fact that it was big and there was no organised countervailing pro-climate protest will quite reasonably be read that the left and the greens are complacent and Ardern can continue to tack deep into the centre. That's certainly how we will be read by other nations in Glasgow.
Yes very much a populist, I think thats why Auckland alert level dropped a touch early. Sadly Labour are a short on people who know how to get shit done. I think this manifests itself when big announcements are made like Kiwibuild, light rail, emergency housing etc and the actual delivery falls over or gets tied in knots.
I honestly believe this is in part due to the emergence of an insular political class who lack in real world experience.
At this rate, it's going to take a few deaths before the Government sees reason on Level 4 (as for compliance – I'd venture that a few deaths would also make certain people remember what we are fighting against).