Open mike 13/10/2024

11 comments on “Open mike 13/10/2024 ”

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1. Jenny 1

   13 October 2024 at 7:26 am

   '

   They were warned

   Holocaust surviver calls for the end of the genocide in Gaza, recounts how his family were warned to get out, or face certain death.

   Currently the IDF are planning to 'liquidate' the remaining population still in North Gaza.
   SPC claimed, here that because they were warned to get out, just as the doomed branch of this Holocaust surviver's, family were warned to get out, that this is not "consistent" with committing genocide.

   @0:00 minutes:

   Hello and welcome to London, I'm Enda Brady.

   Now for a year, people have been taking to the streets of this city, and others all over the world, calling for a ceasefire in Gaza. I want to hear how they're feeling on this rather grim anniversary. From the everyday Marchers, to the politicians, the celebrities and even the Jewish Holocaust survivors who turn up at these protests….

   @3:41minutes:

   I found it very painful and shocking, that um, this destruction and um killings that we experienced during the Holocaust in World War II is, is revisited on the Palestinian people. And, and, it is done by the same, um people, who um, were the victims originally.

   And, uh, it is doubly shocking, that first that they are capable of doing it, but also it had to for it to be the people who suffered the same themselves. And I'm afraid it even goes for some of my family I visited in Israel.

   I found Israel overwhelmingly racist in their attitude, and this infected even my own family who just survived the Holocaust.

   15 members of my family died in the Holocaust. And one example, is that um, a branch of the family who lived in Transylvania, were told by the locals that um, they could be smuggled across the Romanian border where they would have been in Greater, relatively greater, safety. But one member of the family was disabled. And therefore they turned down the opportunity, and they all died as a result. And I think this kind of thing repeats in Gaza, where, where families are told to. told to flee in matter of 24 hours sometimes. And, and they have exactly the same problems. What to do with disabled members of a family?

   Do they leave leave them behind, or, or all of them stay and be victims of bombing?….

   I wonder if SPC would have the nerve to tell this Holocaust survivor to his face, "What happened to your family, was not genocide, because they were warned to get out"

   In SPC's defence he is not the only one to make this argument.

   The International Court of Justice ruled that there is a plausible case to be heard that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza.

   Germany has filed a motion of intervention in the ICJ in defence of Israel, claiming that Israel is not committing genocide in Gaza.
   Judge Nolte representing Germany at the ICJ, claims genocide is not being committed because Israel gave warnings to the Palestinians to "evacuate".

   The stakes are high

   Germany is not a neutral party. Germany is the second biggest supplier of arms to Israel, after the US. If Israel is found guilty of committing genocide, Germany will be complicit in that genocide, the third time Germany has been found culpable of involvment in committing genocide.

   Namibia strongly objected to Germany's intervention in the case, stating that Germany which committed a genocide against the Namibien people, which it has not fully attoned for, is in no position to defend a charge of genocide at the ICJ.

   Namibia has condemned former colonial ruler Germany for rejecting a case at the UN's top court accusing Israel of committing genocide in Gaza.

   Germany has offered to intervene on Israel's behalf in the case brought by South Africa at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in The Hague.

   President Hage Geingob urged Germany to "reconsider its untimely decision to intervene as a third-party in defence".

   In 2021 Berlin acknowledged committing genocide in Namibia.

   German colonisers massacred more than 70,000 Herero and Nama people between 1904 and 1908. Historians consider this to be the 20th Century's first genocide.

   President Geingob said Germany could not "morally express commitment to the United Nations Convention against genocide, including atonement for the genocide in Namibia" and at the same time support Israel.

   "The German Government is yet to fully atone for the genocide it committed on Namibian soil," he added.

   Georg Nolte, the sitting judge representing Germany on the ICJ bench, made the same argument SPC makes, that because the Palestinians were warned to get out it is not a genocide.

   DECLARATION OF JUDGE NOLTE

   South Africa hardly mentioned the efforts by Israel to
   evacuate the civilian population from areas of hostilities…..

   Bearing these considerations in mind, I am not persuaded that South Africa has plausibly
   shown that the military operation undertaken by Israel, as such, is being pursued with genocidal
   intent….

   The Applicant must be expected to engage not only with the stated purpose of the operation, namely to “destroy Hamas” and to liberate the hostages, but also with other manifest circumstances, such as the calls to the civilian population to evacuate…..

   (Signed) Georg NOLTE.

   https://www.un.org/unispal/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/192-20240126-ord-01-04-en.pdf

   [You were warned, yet you’re ignoring yesterday’s Mod note not to personalise your comments. Take a week off – Incognito]
   • Subliminal 1.1

     13 October 2024 at 10:53 am

     Absolutely Jenny. In what has been a shockingly brutal year for Palestine, the current 'generals plan'for the complete removal of the remaining civilian population from Northern Gaza amps the dial to brutally shocking.

     Not only has the IDF repeatedly targeted the areas designated for Palestinians to flee to with missiles and bombs, but they continue to hit them with sniper fire and now the new horror of machine guns on quad copters, as they flee.

     Unsurprisingly, a large proportion of the remaining population have decided that they would far rather die together with their families in their own homes rather than gunned down on the street as they try unsuccessfully to obey IDF orders.

     Jabalia camp is the first phase of this operation – Israeli forces have pummelled the area with air strikes, placed the camp under total siege and cut it off from Jabalia City, making it impossible for residents to flee despite issuing expulsion orders to move southward.

     At least 220 people have been killed since the start of the operation, according to the civil defence in Jabalia…

     Most of the residents have not budged. The quadcopters looming overhead are a grim warning of the dangers of stepping outside.

     “People who went out were shot and killed, their bodies were left in the streets. No one was able to reach them – no ambulance or civil defence,” Ali told MEE.

     “Dozens of bodies are lying in the streets and no one is able to reach them or identify them or treat them in any way.”

     Doctors are refusing to abandon patients in ICU, including premature babies in incubators. The hospitals are once again under siege and bombardment. All fuel in hospitals was expected to run out by last night so no electricity for incubators nor ventilators.

     September was the month with the least amount of aid entering Gaza and no aid has been allowed in since Oct 1.

     Winter is now arrived and tents that these people are expected to erect after fleeing the North will be little more than pieces of cloth. Last winter whole families huddled, drenched by rain, freezing through the night without so much as a blanket. This is how those that do flee will be expected to endure the winter months.

     It's quite simply barbaric as is any defence of these actions by supporters of Israeli 'rights'

     https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/northern-gaza-bodies-streets-israeli-siege
     • aj 1.1.1

       13 October 2024 at 11:58 am

       All crimes being committed while the biggest defender of the 'rules based order' turns a blind eye and sends them billions in cash and armenents.

       Wake up world.
     • Bearded Git 1.1.2

       13 October 2024 at 6:18 pm

       I don't understand why, when the USA supplies military munitions and equipment to Israel, it is said to be supplying "aid".

       It should be called what it is; they are supplying war materials to Israel.
   • Incognito 1.2

     13 October 2024 at 12:42 pm

     Mod note
2. Jenny 2

   13 October 2024 at 7:55 am

   Google search:

   Are New Zealand peacekeepers currently in the Middle East?

   AI overview

   AI Overview

   Yes, New Zealand peacekeepers are currently in the Middle East:

   • Multinational Force and Observers (MFO)

     A 28-person contingent of New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) peacekeepers is deployed to the MFO in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula. The MFO is an independent organization that monitors the Egypt-Israel Peace Treaty.

   • United Nations Truce Supervision Organisation

     Eight NZDF peacekeepers are deployed to the United Nations Truce Supervision Organisation in the Middle East. This organization has troops in Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, and Syria.

   Condemnation from accross the world as Israel attacks peacekeepers…..
3. Jenny 3

   13 October 2024 at 11:23 am

   Our grandfather's gave no quarter to those who defend fascism. and so neither should we.

   Fascism can take many forms and never repeats the same way. Fascism sometimes comes from unlikely places. This is why we can get caught off guard.

   "You have in Israel, a fascist government, a truly fascist government"

   Mustafa Barghouti

   Mustafa Barghouti is a Palestinian physician, activist, and the General Secretary of the Palestinian National Initiative (PNI), Barghouti is a regular on Al Jazeera.

   From Al Jazeera

   [AI generated transcript, lightly edited to aid comprehension. J.]

   Mustafa Barghouti's words, begin @4:39 minutes:

   Nothing of what we say about the Israeli plans is hidden.

   It's declared officially by Israeli politicians, by Netanyahu himself, by Ministers in the Israeli government.

   What we face here, is a combination of two processes;

   The first one is that you have in Israel, a fascist government, a truly fascist government, supported by an increasing tendency towards fascism in the Israeli society…..

   ……what we face as Palestinians, and what the world is watching, is a reactivation of the same settler Colonial Zionist project, that kicked out 70% of the Palestinian people in the worst act of ethnic cleansing in 1948……

   …..The strange thing and the sad thing actually is that so many Western government leaders keep talking about Israel's right to defend itself…..

   ……What they do, is not only to say, that Israel has the right to defend itself, they supply Israel with weapons, they supply, Israel with financial aid, they supply Israel with political support to continue a system of oppression, occupation, apartheid.
   And now fascist behavior, against the Palestinian people, which [has] reached the level of genocide.

   A true genocide by all International parameters…..

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09_GRbU8cqA

   I am not denying that war crimes were committed on October 7. Those that are alleged to have committed or ordered those war crimes need to be put on trial and judged in an international court of law fit for the purpose.

   The ICC has so far, refused to put Yahya Sinwar and other Hamas leaders on trial for war crimes committed on Octobner 7, because they would then have to put Benjamin Netanyahu and Yoav Galant on trial for war crimes committed after October 7. Something a European court will never do. Out of European guilt for the Holocaust , or because Israel guarantees Western influence in the Middle East, take your pick. And so the genocide continues uninterrupted in full view of the whole world.
   The first genocide to be live streamed.
4. Mikey 4

   13 October 2024 at 12:58 pm

   War crimes were committed in and before 1948 also. Given that Israel seems to care little about inflicting civilian casualties, why do you think Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah hasn't returned the hostages yet? Are they inviting further attacks on Gazans out of a callous disregard for the safety of their own people?
   • joe90 4.1

     13 October 2024 at 1:37 pm

     , why do you think Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah hasn't returned the hostages yet?

     Hamas punted that Israel would level Gaza, kill tens of thousands of Palestinians, and lock themselves into their own forever war. Israel obliged.

     Why would Hamas release hostages?

     Thousands have been killed in Gaza, with entire families wiped out. Israeli airstrikes have reduced Palestinian neighborhoods to expanses of rubble, while doctors treat screaming children in darkened hospitals with no anesthesia. Across the Middle East, fear has spread over the possible outbreak of a broader regional war.

     But in the bloody arithmetic of Hamas’s leaders, the carnage is not the regrettable outcome of a big miscalculation. Quite the opposite, they say: It is the necessary cost of a great accomplishment — the shattering of the status quo and the opening of a new, more volatile chapter in their fight against Israel.

     It was necessary to “change the entire equation and not just have a clash,” Khalil al-Hayya, a member of Hamas’s top leadership body, told The New York Times in Doha, Qatar. “We succeeded in putting the Palestinian issue back on the table, and now no one in the region is experiencing calm.”

     […]

     “I hope that the state of war with Israel will become permanent on all the borders, and that the Arab world will stand with us,” Taher El-Nounou, a Hamas media adviser, told The Times.

     https://archive.li/JHuv4 (nyt)
5. adam 5

   13 October 2024 at 1:00 pm

   A deeply flawed political class has emerged in this country, and right across the west. With to many people in parliament being of the managerial class. With specific professions over represented. Few to no working class people. It is just daft.

   Novara media doing a good job of breaking down how crap it has got in the UK.

   Full interview – Bit of an ugly watch
6. joe90 6

   13 October 2024 at 8:09 pm

   TIL about Sejong the Great 1397 -1450, the fourth monarch of Korea's Joseon Dynasty.

   

   Women in Korean History p-267

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