Open mike 14/07/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 14th, 2022 - 100 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:


Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

100 comments on “Open mike 14/07/2022 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. PsyclingLeft.Always 1
    14 July 2022 at 7:21 am

    AUT School of Hospitality and Tourism Professor David Williamson told Morning Report the sector had been reliant on cheap migrant labour for too long, and unions, fair pay and collective agreements needed to re-introduced.

    "The employment relations framework that was altered so dramatically after 1984 through the 1990s has left the sector vulnerable to low pay and poor conditions and that needs to be turned around," he said.

    "These employees who are working in this industry are our neighbours, our friends, our children, our family, and they are just not getting the pay and conditions that you would want."

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/470653/low-pay-and-poor-conditions-in-hospitality-and-tourism-needs-to-be-turned-around

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018848683/hospitality-industry-needs-unions-collective-agreements-expert

    Onya Prof Williamson. Speaking the Truth. I thankyou for speaking for those….who either cant…or are fearful. Cheers !

    • Patricia Bremner 1.1
      14 July 2022 at 10:28 am

      yes Yes that is so true. Collective agreements mean fairer wages and conditions.

    • AB 1.2
      14 July 2022 at 12:22 pm

      There's an assumption that one group of people by virtue of business ownership can expect a stable supply of other people for them to employ at wage rates that make that business profitable.

      There is no reciprocal assumption – that non-owners can expect a stable of supply of jobs that pay enough for them to live in moderate comfort. Such an assumption would contradict the first assumption, so it's not made.

  2. Jenny how to get there 2
    14 July 2022 at 8:02 am

    It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic

    RT 13 Jul, 2022 16:00

    HomeRussia & FSU

    North Korea recognizes Donbass republics

    North Korea has become the third UN member to recognize the independence of the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics.

    The two Donbass republics had already been recognized by Russia and Syria.

    https://www.rt.com/russia/558926-north-korea-recognize-donbass-republics/

    While this idiotic diplomatic fools pantomime is playing on the world stage. Back in the real world.

    Bakhmut bombed after Ukraine attacked the Russian air defense | Ukraine

    9 hours ago

    6 Views

    5 Min Read

    [deleted]

    https://news.worabia.com/bakhmut-bombed-after-ukraine-attacked-the-russian-air-defense-ukraine/112011/

    [When you quote you have to use some kind of formatting, preferably block-quote, to make clear which text is the quote. You also have to make clear when you have left out parts, i.e., when you are selectively quoting. You know all this and Mods don’t want to waste their precious time on lazy unthinking commenters and check & correct after them all the time. This is your warning – Incognito]

    • Incognito 2.1
      14 July 2022 at 8:49 am

      Mod note

    • Jenny how to get there 2.2
      14 July 2022 at 9:51 am

      In one of the videos posted on the social network around midnight outside Bakhmut you can see the constant strikes of rockets illuminating the night sky and a woman’s voice saying, “My mother is there! Fuck fucking goddamn it.

      A man named Nikolai says, “Everything’s on fire. They hit power lines.

      When the woman speaks again, apparently wanting to borrow the phone to call her mother, the man cuts in. “Your mom is fucked up. This is stupid [that’s getting hit]”He says, referring to the northern part of Bakmut.

  3. Pataua4life 3
    14 July 2022 at 9:23 am

    The Standard

    World famous in NZ

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2022/07/13/mediawatch-sigh-this-is-what-the-painfully-serious-left-thinks-is-a-victory/

    [Spray and walk away. You’re now on notice for trolling – Incognito]

    • Patricia Bremner 3.1
      14 July 2022 at 10:43 am

      Those so called Left want a revolution. They are still living in that era.

      I notice they attack the messenger, and defend Bryce Edwards. That says it all.

      Bryce has been called out, he is on notice now. Strangled screams won't change that.

      • Brigitte 3.1.1
        14 July 2022 at 11:20 am

        The original Standard piece noted that the press release did not say precisely what was suggested (break up duopoly).

        And today, there's a piece from Micky Savage criticising Luxon, the first of which is for something he did not actually say (going straight to green).

        There is a clear warning in the Daily Blog article. It notes that there is a tendency to read everything to be pro-Labour and anti Luxon/Nats/Act and fuss over the smallest of details. And ignore all the elephants in the room.

        I'm in North Shore and have been in hospital a few times since covid. So feeling a bit uncomfortable about the article in the media today noting their ED using leaking tarps due to overflow pressures. I'm hearing a lot about restructure of DHBs but no evidence of improving service. And I don't think I'm alone in that sentiment.

        The Daily Blog says the consequence will be that there is a high chance that there will be a change of Govt (though said in a much shorter and abrupt way). I'm not sure I can disagree with that sentimentt.

        • psych nurse 3.1.1.1
          14 July 2022 at 11:29 am

          The Health reforms started on the first of July, so far it involves some rebranding only, your DHB will be functioning exactly as before.

      • Jenny how to get there 3.1.2
        14 July 2022 at 12:13 pm

        Patricia Bremner

        14 July 2022 at 10:43 am

        Those so called Left want a revolution. They are still living in that era……

        Who knows. We all might be soon living in that era.

        With our oceans choked with plastic, and we can't put a ban even on Coca-Cola.
        With climate change threatening human extinction over part of the planet's surface, and we can't even ban intensive dairying conversions and importing and mining coal.
        With World War III in the planning stages. and we can't stop millions of people facing being bombed and shot killed and maimed.
        If we can't stop any of these things under the current system.
        To stop us killing ourselves and the planet. Might need a revolution.

        • Ad 3.1.2.1
          14 July 2022 at 5:23 pm

          There's a revolution right now in Sri Lanka.

          There was nearly a revolution in the USA starting Jan 6th.

          Solomon Islands nearly had a revolution.

          Fiji has had three in thirty years.

          And of course there's one underway in the eastern half of Ukraine.

          To non-revolutionaries these things are called coups.

          • Jenny how to get there 3.1.2.1.1
            14 July 2022 at 6:08 pm

            Serious question Ad.

            What would you consider the Arab Spring to be?

            Coup?

            Revolution?

            Something else?

            • Ad 3.1.2.1.1.1
              14 July 2022 at 6:14 pm

              The Arab Spring was the very, very worst of the Obama-CIA follies that brought momentary hope to millions only to turn into a permanently repressed nightmare for women, gays, Christians, people with degrees, people who wanted to vote, and people who thought the United States would support its idealistic rhetorical flourishes with resolute might.

              President Biden’s current tour of Saudi Arabia’s leadership is its perfect and permanent apostasy.

              • Jenny how to get there …
                14 July 2022 at 8:55 pm

                Ad

                14 July 2022 at 6:14 pm

                The Arab Spring was the very, very worst of the Obama-CIA follies….

                You can't be serious.
                The Arab Spring was a CIA plot? Surely one of the most stupid conspiracy theories of all time. You might as well have written that the French revolution was a CIA plot.
                You completely ignore the fact that regimes you are talking about, that the Arab people were revolting against, were Western backed. The CIA wasn't trying to topple them, just the opposite. Egypt is the second biggest recipient of US military aid after Israel. And this US military aid was and is being used to suppress and oppress the Arab people.

                I asked you a serious question in good faith. And your answer is a slur on the Arab people that the more than 25 million people that rose up against the Dictator Ben Ali and Mubarak and Assad were all CIA dupes?

                • Ad …
                  14 July 2022 at 9:52 pm

                  It was a folly because no one in the US intelligence community appeared to either anticipate or know what to do when the uprising occurred, and when they did Obama rushed in with the Cairo speech that just wrote a whole massive cheque that his ass couldn't cash, and then the great majority of them failed and Obama and the intelligence agencies looked even worse. The result was a spectacular mess that Obama never got out of and the Middle east hasn't yet recovered from.

                  Irony award of the day for use of the word slur then using Sky News as your source.

                  • Jenny how to get there …
                    14 July 2022 at 10:38 pm

                    "You can't believe the mainstream media", Said every conspiracy theorist ever.

                    So where, or what news outlet, or none, do you get your news from Ad?

                    Or do you do your own research?

    • AB 3.2
      14 July 2022 at 12:34 pm

      The degeneration of the Daily Blog into a place where the supposedly 'real' left end up repeating right wing talking points must be hugely amusing to the actual right/far right. I understand why it delights you so much.

      • Patricia Bremner 3.2.1
        14 July 2022 at 2:36 pm

        AB, I am far from being delighted!! Pleased and relieved more apt a description.

        I do feel that Bryce Edwards "takes a position" then finds passages from others to "Prove his case"

        That is fine as long as he quotes correctly. He did not and was called out.

        If The Standard is to blame lol, why not Media Watch and Colin Peacock who brought it public notice????

        The petty comments on The Blog was one of the reasons I left their site.

        There is far more indepth argument here with supporting items, and the calibre of commentary is far superior imo.

        Colin Peacock was commenting on a judgement that went against Bryce Edwards.

        I was pleased the quotes and use of them was under the microscope, as Bryce has "sailed close to the wind' on previous occasions. Pleased is not delighted.

        • AB 3.2.1.1
          14 July 2022 at 3:52 pm

          Patricia – it was Pataua4life I was replying to, not you. TDB just depresses me these days and I rarely go there, other things to do.

          • Patricia Bremner 3.2.1.1.1
            14 July 2022 at 4:58 pm

            blush Oh sorry AB. Not the first time I've had the wrong end of the stick. I agree about TDB. yes

      • swordfish 3.2.2
        15 July 2022 at 2:06 am

        .
        Yeah … because anything outside the Upper-Middle Woke echo-chamber of moral panics, purity spirals, & "good" vs "evil" identity groups = "right wing talking points". Spare me such empty-headed banality. You really have no idea about fundamental Left principles, do you ?

      • Jenny how to get there 3.2.3
        15 July 2022 at 9:23 am

        AB

        14 July 2022 at 12:34 pm

        The degeneration of the Daily Blog into a place where the supposedly 'real' left end up…..

        Yes it is one thing that can be said in favour of the Daily Blog, it provides an outlet for those on the extreme Left like Malcolm Evans and John Minto who have trouble getting published anywhere else.

        From Raglan to Palestine – let our voice be heard

        By John Minto

        July 15, 2022

        https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2022/07/15/john-minto-from-raglan-to-palestine-let-our-voice-be-heard/

    • Jimmy 3.3
      14 July 2022 at 2:36 pm

      The comments below the article are pretty accurate.

    • Incognito 3.4
      14 July 2022 at 9:25 pm

      Mod note

  4. Stephen D 4
    14 July 2022 at 10:20 am

    Attention NZ Business!!

    When you get your business model right, and look after your staff, you can actually grow the business. Who knew??

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/food-drink/129264329/top-auckland-restaurant-cassia-to-open-seven-days-to-help-staff

    “Auckland restaurateurs Sid and Chand Sahrawat​ are extending service at their Fort Lane restaurant Cassia to seven days and hiring 15 more staff to give their team better hours and more flexibility.”

  5. joe90 5
    14 July 2022 at 11:21 am

    The discerning public.

    /

    But the survey of 1,000 British adults, carried out on Tuesday and Wednesday, found Mr Sunak was by far the most well known of the candidates. Some 60% said they knew a great deal or a fair amount about him, and 56% correctly identified him as the former chancellor.

    Mr Hunt was the second most well known on 40%, followed by Ms Truss on 33% and Mr Zahawi on 28%.

    Ms Mordaunt was known by 20% of people and Mr Tugendhat by 15%, while Ms Badenoch and Ms Braverman were on just 14%.

    However, 12% of people told Ipsos that they knew either a great deal or a fair amount about Stewart Lewis, a fake candidate created by the pollster.

    Some 6% even said they knew “a great deal” about the non-existent Mr Lewis, more than the 5% who said the same thing about Ms Braverman, the Attorney General, and the same proportion as for Ms Badenoch and Mr Tugendhat

    https://archive.ph/J28mc

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-hunt-liz-truss-suella-braverman-keir-starmer-penny-mordaunt-b1012160.html

  7. Stephen D 7
    14 July 2022 at 11:56 am

    Replying to Pat @6. (Reply function doesn’t work on my iPad.)

    The article is more about the insurers being worried about the floods in Aussie, than here.

    • pat 7.1
      14 July 2022 at 12:27 pm

      Australasia is treated as a single market…and while the current focus is on Australian floods (the previous occasion of threat here was post ChCh quakes) the underlying driver is the risk of losses which will only increase. As has been noted in the comments to the article those losses are also increasing in their major markets so rationalisation can be expected, or best case scenario a repricing of risk which will have to be carried by all end users….read 'inflationary'.

      NZ has long been identified as a marginal market.

    • Belladonna 8.1
      14 July 2022 at 1:09 pm

      A bit difficult to track down the quote in the midst of a regularly updated live blog – but I think this is the relevant quote from Little – from the above link:

      Q: Unvaccinated health workers. Is there a place for them?

      We keep a lot of things under review and we're reviewing the mandate for health care workers.

      This is the thing that you do.

      I know a lot of people are concerned about unvaccinated health care workers being in the health system.

      A lot of people say I don't want to be treated by a healthcare worker who's not vaccinated.

      Is there a good clinical basis to maintain the mandate? That's the question that has to be answered. We will rely on expert advice to do that.

  9. Anker 9
    14 July 2022 at 1:27 pm
    • Thanks for elaborating on that.

    having unvaxxd health workforce personnel back at work is not a no no. It’s under review

    • Anne 9.1
      14 July 2022 at 2:35 pm

      If there is any consideration to re-employ unvaccinated nurses it would be backroom jobs where they don't come into contact with patients or indeed vaccinated health staff.

      That's fine. Let em do the paper work and answer the telephone.

      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/07/mark-richardson-furious-at-unvaccinated-nurses-who-want-to-return-to-work-amid-health-care-crisis.html

      About 2/3rds in – following the nutty 'Nurse for Freedom'. Mark Richardson is on the money. He winds up by saying:

      “For God’s sake. Get the jab.”

      • Rosemary McDonald 9.1.1
        14 July 2022 at 3:14 pm

        …..re-employ unvaccinated nurses it would be backroom jobs….

        Or. They could be put to work providing hands-on care to Covid infected patients.

        Or betterer. Put them to work providing hands-on care to the fucking filth unvaccinated Covid infected patients. Saving the nice, clean, triple jabbed nurses for the nice, clean triple jabbed Covid infected patients.

        You know…I think we could make this work!!!

        • Ad 9.1.1.1
          14 July 2022 at 6:17 pm

          Or they could become vaccinated like the rest of us and show that they are medically qualified to serve all of us.

    • Jimmy 9.2
      14 July 2022 at 2:39 pm

      If I was seriously ill in hospital, either with Covid or anything else for that matter, I wouldn't give a shit as whether my care giver was vaccinated or not. I would just be grateful that they were trying to keep me alive.

      • Ad 9.2.1
        14 July 2022 at 6:18 pm

        Until they breathed.

        • Anker 9.2.1.1
          14 July 2022 at 7:02 pm

          ffs Ad, they'd be wearing masks or PPE, they may have just had covid or you may already have covid. Or the guy in the next door bed may have covid.

          Talking to an ICU nurse recently who is vaxxed and just had covid.

          • Ad 9.2.1.1.1
            14 July 2022 at 7:31 pm

            If you are an ICU nurse who PPE's and is vaccinated and has just had COVID, thankyou for your service.

            Other people I wouldn't want around me: a urinary tract exam from a doctor who didn't wash their hands, a dentist not cleared for Hepatitis, or an ambulance driver who wouldn't wear a seatbelt.

            • joe90 9.2.1.1.1.1
              14 July 2022 at 8:02 pm

              Or indeed blood/tissue products from former UK/French/ROI residents 1980-1996, IV drug users, carriers of hepatitis/EB/CFS viruses, anyone requiring HIV/hepatitis tests, recent STI patients, current sex workers, men who've recently had sex with men or woman they've had sex with…the list goes on.

        • Jimmy 9.2.1.2
          15 July 2022 at 9:02 am

          So when they are wheeling you in to the ED bleeding to death after a car accident, and they say to you, are you ok if an unvaccinated doctor stops the bleeding as we are so short staffed, you will say to them in a weak dying voice "No keep that doctor away from me I don't want Covid. Leave me to die outside"

          Yeah, I can really imagine that happening.

          • Ad 9.2.1.2.1
            15 July 2022 at 9:09 am

            Given the choice I certainly would and of course so would my health insurer who would whisk me off to a competent hospital.

            As would the ED staff employer.

            • Jimmy 9.2.1.2.1.1
              15 July 2022 at 9:48 am

              Your health insurer wouldn’t have time to whisk you off if it was a real emergency. You would be at the ED. You have really swallowed the fear porn of Covid. I actually had Covid a couple of weeks ago and like many others it wasn't even the worse cold or flu I've had. I'm still upright.

  10. Herodotus 10
    14 July 2022 at 1:55 pm

    Are we so lucky to have Andrew Little as the minister of Health and this ONE nurse in Manila that the minister bases his support for his actions on. Then as a “union man” he craps on the nurses union.

    Why is it that so many on the left accept this without voicing any comment or is this the best we can hope for and have to accept. Whist Rome burns ….

    I now wonder how much better our health systems would be if someone in Dunedin didn’t go out for a bike ride??
    Pity bluster is favoured over compentance.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/07/andrew-little-explains-why-he-s-refusing-to-say-health-system-in-crisis-in-tense-am-interview.html

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/07/andrew-little-slammed-for-just-not-helpful-comments-accusing-nz-nurses-organisation-of-sitting-in-wellington.html

    • Patricia Bremner 10.1
      14 July 2022 at 2:48 pm

      Herodotus, did you ever fault the National Minister of Health Tony Ryall?
      He did not have a Pandemic to deal with, and a pay rise for Nurses lol.

      • JO 10.1.1
        14 July 2022 at 4:14 pm

        A little digging can uncover interesting remnants of what was. As exhALANt wrote in his latest blog post (see sidebar):

        Tony Ryall once proclaimed at a Health Conference this blogger attended (as part of the job with RNZCGP) “Primary care is not our priority at this time”. The Minister who took over, Jonathan Coleman? He was equally dismissive of concerns across the wider Health Sector then…

        https://exhalantblog.wordpress.com/2022/07/12/tour-of-duty-ardern-out-on-the-world-stage-and-gets-things-done-luxon-goes-off-the-rails-again/

      • DavidJ 10.1.2
        14 July 2022 at 4:22 pm

        Based on this OIA about Canterbury DHB nurses, average RN salary increased every year from 2011 through 2020. That includes 7 years of a National government, during which time nurses salaries increased by an average of 2.3% p.a.. David Clark (Minister from 2017 through mid 2020) managed to secure sufficient extra health money to increase average nurses salaries by 4.7% p.a. from 2018 through 2020.

        https://www.cdhb.health.nz/about-us/document-library/cdhb-10465-registered-nurse-average-salary/

        I don't have the figures since Andrew Little became minister, however his outburst yesterday was either a calculated attack or a political blunder. Either way, it wasn't a good look.

        • Patricia Bremner 10.1.2.1
          14 July 2022 at 5:10 pm

          The union was all for the settlement, until they decided back pay had to be settled first. Nurses would have salaries 10 to 12 thousand more a year, which would have helped with the recruiting process as Andrew Little pointed out.

          They shot that delay across his bow in December, and are now moaning that nurses will go to Australia. Well Dahhh!!! He is right, they have not helped Nurses.

          • DavidJ 10.1.2.1.1
            14 July 2022 at 5:28 pm

            Interesting, but that's not how Ian Powell sees it:

            "And he is getting stuck into the NZ Nurses Organisation, accusing the union of reneging on a deal on pay equity. Simply not true. The “deal” was agreed to by two negotiating teams, but still required ratification. Following membership feedback, NZNO identified two obstacles to ratification which required resolution. That is not reneging; it is the part of the process called ratification. As a former union leader, Little knows this well."

            https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/129153136/the-return-of-angry-andy-the-health-minister-who-is-denying-the-obvious

            Powell also points out the following:

            1. The Australasian College for Emergency Medicine (ACEM; the College) had to correct what it described as 'misleading comments' attributable to Little in June.

            2. Then in May "in a low blow, in May, Little derogatorily referred to the “nominal leaders” of primary care for allegedly failing to see what a different and better health system looks like. It was clear from the context of his attack that he was referring to representatives of general practices."

            3. He's also had a crack at rural health services and Pharmac.

            I understand the Minister is under pressure, but he's doing himself no favours. Powell concludes with this:

            "Little’s poor performance has made him a ministerial liability. A big factor behind this is his failure to recognise the importance of relationships in public health systems."

            and

            "This has led him to undermine workforce trust and confidence in the Government’s leadership of the health system. Further, he has achieved this in little over 18 months. I don’t recall any health minister reaching this milestone."

            Ouch.

            • Patricia Bremner 10.1.2.1.1.1
              14 July 2022 at 5:36 pm

              One man's opinion does not make truth.

              • Herodotus …
                14 July 2022 at 6:08 pm

                Where is any comment from you to question Littles behaviour and actions ?? It appears you can see everything Wrong with parties other than Labour BUT are blinded by this governments performances and unable to make comment.

                Not great use of language by Little. "in an interview with Stuff, Andrew Little labelled the union ‘unprincipled’ and the impediment to a pay deal." Just like the Kiwi in Manila telling Little "2 yr is not an issue" how would she know what nurses around the world are thinking" and for him to use that as a reason for his Do Little action. That interview was a train wreck – And sitting in Wellington – Where is he – And you support him without any reservations, as do many here. Imagine the commentary if Nats were in power and Little was the Health minister acting as he is.

                I

                https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/129273745/nurses-organisation-asks-health-minister-to-focus-on-health-crisis-instead-of-putdowns

              • DavidJ …
                14 July 2022 at 6:34 pm

                He's not just 'one man'. He is a former executive director of the Association of Salaried Medical Specialists. Is he wrong? Is the Australasian College for Emergency Medicine wrong? Are commentators here that are in the profession wrong?

                • Anker …
                  14 July 2022 at 7:19 pm

                  David J. No all the people you talk about are correct.

                  Little and Labour are so ideologically driven, they fail to see the real issues.

                  BTW I am a labour party member. But not for too much longer

                  • Patricia Bremner …
                    14 July 2022 at 9:47 pm

                    Tell me Anker where is your ideological home?

                    Who will you support if not Jacinda Ardern?devil

                    • Anker …
                      15 July 2022 at 3:16 pm

                      Mother was a life member of Labour. I have always voted Labour and worked hard for them.

                      I now have no ideological home politically. I try to go by my values. I fear for NZ as I think our parliamentarians aren't up to it. That's not a criticism, I think it is a hard job (although sometimes I do criticize them).

                      One of the most important things for me is the Health system. The only people who really matter in that system are the well trained professionals who look after you if you get sick. We are all dependent on them.

                      I don't rely on Jacinda. I don't have anything against her and also acknowledge her strengths. I was grateful to her and Labour for the initial Covid response. The reality is I went into isolatin before the country did. Currenlty living a rather isolated life to protect me and my loved ones and the health professionals from Covid.
                      I try to take as much responisitiblity for myself and my life. This has always been the case. I now are just grateful when politicians don’t makethings worse. Or spend public money on consultants whose contribution won’t matter.

                      Labour have lost me. They are ideologically driven and its not an ideology I support. This doesn’t mean I support Luxon (personaly I think he is out of his depth and woeful).

                      I probably won’t vote next election. But if that is the case, it will be a deliberate and well thought through decision.

                • Patricia Bremner …
                  14 July 2022 at 9:45 pm

                  No not wrong, just looking through their own window.

            • Patricia Bremner 10.1.2.1.1.2
              14 July 2022 at 9:29 pm

              Andrew Little is not there to make friends. He is there to change entrenched attitudes biases and methods, which have not delivered to a large percentage of the public. Feathers are going to be ruffled as some were very comfortable in their Silos. Some were paid by both the private and the public system.
              Whenever the left shift the dial, personal attacks start. No one has suggested there should not be change, just they don’t like the messenger.

              Umpty managers board members and other duplications creaming money out of the "system" Yes feathers will be ruffled and fur fly. The intention is to increase services at the frontline. Perhaps Andrew is tired That would be understandable.

              • Anker …
                15 July 2022 at 3:26 pm

                Yes I am sure Little is tired. What a big job to have. I do have a little empathy for him. But the front line is the health system. I hope he does ruffle feathers of the bureacrats but he seemed to be picking a fight with the union, i.e. the front line services union. Unforgivable from so many angles.

                I don't think Little knows too much about health at all.

                The health system doesn't deliver for people in small towns e.g Wairoa has no cardiologist. People can't even get a regular GP in many towns.

                They can stand on their heads, re structure, bring in a band, put on a party, so whatever, but until the solve the staffing and medication crisis, it will do swa

          • psych nurse 10.1.2.1.2
            14 July 2022 at 5:46 pm

            It was not the Union who rejected the settlement but was the membership dismayed at the deal. Backpay was promised then reneged on. In my role as a senior nurse the offer was a fraction of that offered to other roles. All this has done is compress the salary scales to the point where most senior staff would make more giving up their roles and become plain RN,s. I had been advanced more on the last pay round in a lump sum against future pay equity than I was offered. We were looking at having to pay it back.

            Every time this minister opens his mouth he alienates the very people who vote for his party, he needs to go, replace him with someone who can demonstrate empathy.

            • Patricia Bremner 10.1.2.1.2.1
              14 July 2022 at 9:35 pm

              That situation is not right or good Who were you actually negotiating with. Ministry boffins?

      • Herodotus 10.1.3
        14 July 2022 at 5:00 pm

        Nice DEFLECTION, what about …. On the issue nice to see that you cannot find anything to counter to support Littles performances. And for his attach on a union, nice to have friends like that in a Labour party. But I gather you totally support him.

        How about addressing the issue?? Unless you don't really have the conviction.

        This maybe news to you BUT Labour is currently the government and Little IS the minister.

        • Patricia Bremner 10.1.3.1
          14 July 2022 at 5:33 pm

          Herodotus, laugh It isn't about me. See my comment above.

        • Anker 10.1.3.2
          14 July 2022 at 7:09 pm

          Thanks for saying all of this Herodotus, and psych nurse.

          Fancy a labour minister, ex labour boss, trashing a union. Accusing them of talking with a forked tongue. Does he not realize how many kiwis lives are dependent on our health work force? What will this do for staff morale? That and refusing to call it a crisis (actually I think it is a catastrophe).

          Little doesn't show any signs of appreciating what a health system is. Its nurses, Drs and allied health workers. We are despearately short of them Andrew. Many of them are working their guts out to save lives right now. Your stupid bloody health reforms are irrelevant.

          Remember when Key use to say its not a housing crisis and most of us on this site would be tearing our hair out about his denial (acutally the situation with housing back in Key's day looks a lot better that our current housing catastrophe……

          Tony Ryall and Johanathan Coleman were likely incompetent shits, but they are long gone. Littles in charge of the ship now. Labour have had five years. David Clark was told back in 2017 that there was a serious work force shortage before the pandemic.

          Little should be sacked or resign

    • gsays 10.2
      14 July 2022 at 6:00 pm

      "Why is it that so many on the left accept this without voicing any comment or is this the best we can hope for and have to accept"

      I figure this is what we could call the neo-liberal left. The left that couldn't raise a murmur when lots of poorly paid people (mainly women) were mandated out of jobs.

      The term Brahmin class better describes what a lot of 'lefties' behave like.

      • Anker 10.2.1
        14 July 2022 at 7:12 pm

        gsays I think it is tribal labour who will support Labour no matter what and sorry if this comes across as judgmental many of them have lost their ability to critique anymore.

  11. Mac1 11
    14 July 2022 at 2:14 pm

    Our health system is in crisis…..

    "Strange to have gone from talking about a stressed health system to being in it in a couple of hours," he said.

    "Wellington Hospital A & E actually as calm and efficient as I've ever seen it. I'll update later but nothing too serious."

    RNZ reporter on an actual experience of the NZ health system after Sean Plunket suffers a minor heart attack.

    https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-lifestyle/star-entertainment/broadcaster-sean-plunket-hospital-after-heart-attack

    • Jimmy 11.1
      14 July 2022 at 2:31 pm

      North Shore Hospital doesn't seem to be coping as well as Wellington hospital.

      Patients waiting under leaking tent outside North Shore emergency department – NZ Herald

      • Belladonna 11.1.1
        14 July 2022 at 2:57 pm

        To be fair, that awning is more a triage and Covid testing space – before admitting patients to either the 'with Covid' or 'without Covid' streams. Decision made that it was better to do this step in the 'open' with ventilation, rather than within the closed (and crowded) ED itself.

        However, have just had a friend admitted (and now discharged) from ICU with Covid at North Shore (luckily they were able to get on top of the symptoms quickly) – who commented on just how rushed and stressed all of the medical staff were. No complaints about the treatment – but she could see how much pressure the staff were under – and how long their shifts were. The doctor seeing her dealt with 3 emergency calls while checking her symptoms and prescribing for her.

      • AB 11.1.2
        14 July 2022 at 4:02 pm

        Well a relative of mine went there with a fracture and said that the tent was for Covid triage which is not a rare practice at all. And that the privately owned ShoreCare A&E across the road where they went for the initial consultation in order to be seen more rapidly (cost $105 after ACC subsidy was deducted) used a tent in exactly the same way. Looks like the thrusting, innovative titans of the private sector aren't doing any better than public hospitals – other than through the natural advantages that come from reducing the demand on their services by charging money.

        This is of course just an n=1 anecdote. But I ain't holding my breath on the assumption that the Herald is not engaged in distortion of the facts for political purposes. Essentially the house organ of the National Party, that rag is why we don't even need the Murdoch media in this country in order to sabotage democracy.

        • DavidJ 11.1.2.1
          14 July 2022 at 4:31 pm

          Meanwhile, from Jimmy's source:

          "The photos come after a survey – conducted by the New Zealand Women in Medicine (NZWIM) Charitable Trust, including responses from more than 900 New Zealand doctors – warned a "catastrophic collapse" of the healthcare workforce loomed.

          "Ward full, extreme staff shortages, ED full and seeing little babies as young as seven weeks old waiting (more than) >2 hours outside in tents for a bed in the department, or to be seen and an attempt at an exam made in the tent," one junior doctor working in paediatrics said in the survey. The hospital where this doctor worked was not specified."

        • Patricia Bremner 11.1.2.2
          15 July 2022 at 7:27 am

          yes 100+

    • alwyn 11.2
      14 July 2022 at 5:16 pm

      "RNZ reporter on an actual experience … "

      Who is the RNZ reporter you appear to be quoting?

    • gsays 11.3
      14 July 2022 at 6:35 pm

      I am curious as to the purpose of yr comment.

      Is it to deny our health system is in crisis because of one reporter's "actual" experience?

      Running defence for a minister who has clearly pissed off a large portion of his workforce?

      Based on one persons experience and extrapolating it out is like declaring the pandemic over coz I didn't get Covid.

      • Mac1 11.3.1
        14 July 2022 at 7:40 pm

        If it's in crisis, then Wellington did not show that.

        Nor does my local hospital, though a friend tells me that the waits are long.

        I am objecting to blanket criticisms of 'shambles', 'crisis' or whatever else. They are overused, becoming meaningless political buzz words. Today I read that "all'' whatever the feck it was was a disaster. It was obvious that ''all" did not apply. It was hyperbole. Sorry, I can't remember the actual situation, but that in itself points to the problem with doomsaying, crying wolf, inflated criticism.

        If someone comes along and says that I had a problem with such an hospital, I'd accept that. If someone can honestly give an overview of an hospital system stretched beyond breaking point. I'd look at that.

        I have personally reached my breaking point as a teacher, but it wasn't the NZ education system. Covid is hard, and winter is hard. There will always be discontent.

        There is, and has been, far too much exaggeration that is political, serving narrow interests, and ultimately harmful as its effect is to lessen trust, hope and social cohesion either deliberately or as a corollary.

        I am now a sceptic. I've had covid, cancers and crises de foi. I have been well served in two different hospital systems.

        I went walking today as I have for years with a highly qualified medical professional, recently forcibly retired from a hospital board as a member by recent changes, who does not talk of crises. Problems, yes always, but I have not heard of crises- and believe me I would have from him.

        I socialise with nurses, surgeons, anaesthetists, long term sufferers from all sorts of complaints, but I don't hear crises. Again problems, but not crises.

        I have a niece who is an authority on aspects of public health- difficulties, problems, social attitudes and behaviours- all of that, but not heard of crises.

        No, it's not one reporter's experience. His experience just points out the arrant stupidity of blanket, unbalanced, unsubstantiated criticism, and the use of hyperbolic and harmful language.

        It's harmful because it limits the truth of the matter, the extent of the matter, the causes of the matter, and only serves narrow, sectional, shallow political purposes.

        • Anker 11.3.1.1
          14 July 2022 at 8:34 pm

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300636068/waikato-hospital-cancels-100-surgeries-in-june-no-catch-up-in-sight—health-leader

          There are many,many more examples like this Mac 1.

          I noticed that the person who murdered the woman in Grey Lynn has been sent to the Mason Clinic. Only a week or two ago and innocent woman was stabbed in Chch by a man discharged from the psych unit. Sadly expect more of this.

          You may be like the Nurses Union who don't want to refer to it as a crisis because they just want the minister to get on and fix it. Gordon Campbell has an interesting article posted by Sacha on Daily Review.

          Call it what you like, but the health syster is exceptionally stressed and they are understaffed. Nowadays i hope like hell I don't get sick

          • Mac1 11.3.1.1.1
            14 July 2022 at 10:18 pm

            "Nowadays i hope like hell I don't get sick." And if you did, I'd wish you the same timely, expert and appropriate treatment I got with four cancer diagnoses and a hernia for good measure.

            What I said above about trust and hope and social cohesion applies with us both. I keep hoping and trusting and believing in how our society should progress.

        • Anne 11.3.1.2
          14 July 2022 at 10:29 pm

          yes yes

        • Patricia Bremner 11.3.1.3
          15 July 2022 at 7:31 am

          Thanks Mac1. Well expressed.

        • gsays 11.3.1.4
          17 July 2022 at 9:29 am

          Ok, you don't like the wording.

          What adjectives would you use to describe the problems? Ones that come to my mind are systemic, chronic, under-resourcing, under-staffing, entrenched. Most of which come down to senior management and governance.

          To describe out health system as just having 'problems' is equally "harmful because it limits the truth of the matter, the extent of the matter, the causes of the matter, and only serves narrow, sectional, shallow political purposes."

          Ironically a measure you may be able to relate to, I have been to my GP in regards to an inguinal hernia. He referred me to our local hospital for an appointment. They said 'No'. I went back to him on Friday as things have worsened and he point blank told me, 'you won't get in.' His advice was going privately.

          At the core of the problems is this market driven, neo-liberal approach to running hospitals. I had hopes when the reform was announced then discovered Ardern's pick for heading up the changes is from Ernst Young. Says it all really.

      • Jimmy 11.3.2
        15 July 2022 at 9:07 am

        Andrew Little says everything is fine. Just a tough winter. 900 doctors say it's a crisis.

        Of course the one person is right and the 900 doctors do not know what they are talking about.

        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/andrew-little-govt-responding-to-chronic-staffing-shortage-in-healthcare/GQT4WMCA6YGV3ZEODNNR3NZQL4/

    • Anker 11.4
      14 July 2022 at 7:15 pm

      Wishing Sean Plunkett all the very best for his recovery. He lost his brother to suicide last week. So an unbelievably difficult time.

      When I visited Wellington ED just over a month ago, staff were calm and professional. It was remarkable given the numbers of sick people arriving by ambulaances and the beds stacked in corridors.

      • Mac1 11.4.1
        14 July 2022 at 7:56 pm

        I'm sorry to hear that. I can but wish himself all the best.

      • Anne 11.4.2
        14 July 2022 at 9:12 pm

        When I visited Wellington ED just over a month ago, staff were calm and professional. It was remarkable given the numbers of sick people arriving by ambulaances and the beds stacked in corridors.

        Which is why I harp on about those who are not following the rules and who publicly demand that all Covid regulations be rescinded Anker.

        I was in hospital earlier this year for major surgery. The professionalism of the doctors, nurses and the surgeon blew me away. I constantly think of them and wonder how they are coping with the enormous strain they are currently experiencing.

        Anyone calling for the removal of all Covid restrictions (and I refer particularly to the Freedom crowd) are showing a lack of respect and consideration for the health workers in question.

        With a country of around only 3 to 4 million tax-payers, there is never going to be enough money in the cookie jar to service entities like the health sector to our satisfaction. So, its up to each of us to be prepared to do whatever is required to alleviate the worst of the pandemic affects on those staffing the health services.

        Getting vaccinated, wearing masks and keeping our distance is the very least we can do.

  12. ianmac 12
    14 July 2022 at 4:34 pm

    You might have heard Thomas Coughlan grinding his teeth as he had to concede that PM Ardern had a successful overseas trip. How it must have hurt. Anyway it is an interesting summary.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/thomas-coughlan-jacinda-ardern-finally-gets-lucky-break-on-overseas-trips/QKBCNI3Z7YCWB5MOCRHWMDG2G4/

    • ianmac 12.1
      14 July 2022 at 4:36 pm

      In case it is behind the wall.

      The United States trip was successful on branding terms. Ardern's Harvard Commencement Speech will be remembered in the same vein as David Lange's appearance before the Oxford Union. Lange's wit and the place of that debate in how New Zealanders remember the battle over New Zealand's nuclear free policy will likely mean it looms larger in the historical memory, but to be fair to Ardern, the Harvard Commencement Speech is a greater honour. Distinguished speakers debate at the Oxford Union most nights – Harvard Commencement speeches are very rare.

    • Mac1 12.2
      14 July 2022 at 5:53 pm

      That reference to a 'lucky break' reminds me of the golfer who mused that the more he practised the luckier he got!

      • ianmac 12.2.1
        14 July 2022 at 8:25 pm

        Jacinda is just so lucky. No way does she work hard to get her lucky breaks. Ha!

        Remember when in her early PM days they denigrated her fluffy lack of substance.

        Long may she reign!

        • Mac1 12.2.1.1
          14 July 2022 at 10:03 pm

          They called her stardust. On Tuesday I had a coffee in town and sprinkled a sachet of sugar around the lovely design of a fern in the crema on top.

          I called it stardust and saluted our Prime Minister. In a world of Putins, Johnsons, Trumps and that whole throng of narcissist, deluded and sociopathic crazies, we are indeed blessed.

          • Patricia Bremner 12.2.1.1.1
            15 July 2022 at 7:53 am

            Yes, covid and politics has made the world difficult, so thank you Jacinda Ardern and her fully supportive team, who instead of being assisted through the pandemic and the world scene, have been put down harried and generally denigrated.

            For some this has reached the stage that any comment is leapt on quoted out of context and added to name calling and calls for dismissals.

            Those same folk want change… but not that change.. go figure.

            Angry Andy meme is again fashionable. Previously Nanaia Mahuta was the target.

            The search for holes in the government's armour continues by the Nats and Act, to the point of even bad mouthing the country while overseas is sad.

            Denying reputable evidence over and over. Flat out saying the opposite. Chipping away.

            So some of us support, as we see the propaganda repeated endlessly and echoed in MSM.

            • KJT 12.2.1.1.1.1
              15 July 2022 at 8:21 am

              I understand Little's frustration.

              The kickback from those making money, and/or sitting in positions of power, due to the inefficiencies, duplication and partial privatisations that the DHB model enabled, is enormous. It has only just started.

              You will hear more and more the mealy mouthed.. “We admit change is needed, but not this change”.

              The "Salaried medical specialists" that use their position in State hospitals to prop up lucrative private businesses, the "Consultants", the "Private contractors" are just a few examples of those who have a vested interest in the continuation of the current shemozzle.

              • Patricia Bremner …
                15 July 2022 at 9:04 am

                Careful KJT, you will be lumped in with medevil Hopelessly Left lol. Such good company.

                • KJT …
                  15 July 2022 at 4:00 pm

                  Shows how much the Overton window has shifted,, that I, a definite capitalist businessman, is "extreme left". LOL.

                  Quoting a well known philosopher. "Heaven holds no attraction for me. The company would be so boring".