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Open mike 15/06/2013

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 15th, 2013 - 111 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

111 comments on “Open mike 15/06/2013 ”

  1. Alanz 1

    Oh dear . . . – – – . . .

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/politics/260944/key-labour-guilty-deep-hypocrisy

    Calling Grant Robertson . . . – – – . . .
    S O S . . . – – – . . .
    Time for regime change . . . – – – . . .
    S O S . . . – – – . . .

    • Saarbo 1.1

      “He said he did not know his colleagues were being hosted by SkyCity until he got there. ”

      Quote from David Shearer in Dom Post.

      Is this believable?

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/8797168/MPs-warned-over-corporate-box-invite

      Last sentence.

      • Te Reo Putake 1.1.1

        Is this believable?

        Yes.

        • Saarbo 1.1.1.1

          Surely this sort of thing is discussed within Caucus, if it isn’t then it needs to be. The Sky City Deal is one of the major areas that Labour can really take it to National in 2014 (they probably still can), and given its importance I would have expected this group of four to have discussed it with their Leader. Would Helen have known?

          and another article:

          “David Shearer’s February reshuffle of his shadow Cabinet has, however, so far failed to create any sense of urgency that might suggest the party actually wants to govern.”

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10890620

          From National’s No 1 PR person…John Armstrong. But it has some truth to it.

          I really feel for Tim Barnett, he has his work cut out the way the Labour caucus operates. Something is really missing, even you can’t deny that Te Reo.

          • karol 1.1.1.1.1

            On The Panel yesterday on RNZ, Chris Trotter made the point that Helen Clark would have been proactive on such an issue, foreseen the possible PR ramifications in advance and strongly warned her MPs against accepting such hospitality.

            • Morrissey 1.1.1.1.1.1

              Chris Trotter is a fool. If he had a sense of humour, it might help. Unfortunately, putting on faux-Mexican voices and mocking political dissenters is not humorous….

              Open mike 15/06/2013

              Well, maybe someone like Populuxe1 might laugh, and certainly that empty vessel Lisa Scott whinnied her assent. Jim Mora probably thought it was not funny, but being the diligent host he is, laughed dutifully and even encouraged the gang bang.

              • Te Reo Putake

                Moz, I thought it was mocking a cowardly accused rapist, not a political dissenter. Still, great that you know what goes on in Mora’s head, a career as a tv medium awaits you. You could style yourself the Host Whisperer.

                Funnily enough, I was really impressed with Trotter’s contribution yesterday, particular the discussion around the Captain Cook pub. It’s a brave political commentator who’ll sing on live radio, but he did a fine job of it.

                • Morrissey

                  Moz, I thought it was mocking a cowardly accused rapist

                  Accused by whom? Certainly not by the two young women who were threatened and cajoled into going along with this utterly discredited attempt to lynch him. Certainly not by the women in Rape Crisis, who recognize a bogus rape claim when they see one. Certainly not by any of the world’s best journalists. Certainly not by anyone who has any knowledge of this case and is honest.

                  … not a political dissenter.

                  Ahhhh, so Julian Assange is NOT a political dissenter. Thanks for that. Is that choice piece of intelligence from the same book that says David Shearer IS doing a great job? (I note that you have been trying to fly that dead turkey a lot as well, recently.)

                  Still, great that you know what goes on in Mora’s head,

                  I am sure that Mora was thinking: Oh, my God, this pompous and unfunny twerp is a PRAT. But of course, as the jolly mein host of this party in Hell, he has to humour, even encourage, such prattery.

                  a career as a tv medium awaits you.

                  Sayyyy, I L-L-L-LIKE the sound of that.

                  You could style yourself the Host Whisperer.

                  Trouble is, the only thing I would whisper would be: “Time to retire, Jim/Larry (can I call you “Lackwit”?)/Leighton/Danny/Murray/Veitchy/Kerre/Jesse/Simon/Geoff…

                  Funnily enough, I was really impressed with Trotter’s contribution yesterday, particular the discussion around the Captain Cook pub.

                  It’s a brave political commentator who’ll sing on live radio, but he did a fine job of it.

                  If you like your melodies unmemorable, your singing flat and your guitar-playing about the proficiency of Sid Vicious as he’s coming down from a heroin jag, Chris Trotter is the man for you. If he had the talent, he might be one day as good as THIS BLOKE….

                  • McFlock

                    And now for a word from the real world…

                    • Morrissey

                      And now for a word from the real world…

                      No, I’m sorry, my friend, but gnomish utterances ain’t gonna get it done for you.

                    • McFlock

                      I’m not your friend, buddeh!

                    • Morrissey

                      I’m not your friend, buddeh!

                      I’ve been called some choice things in my time, but having the title “Buddah” bestowed on me is taking things to a new level, I have to say.

                      “Buddah”.

                      Imagine the joy!

                    • McFlock

                      Well, now we know three things about Morrissey.

                      1: he doesn’t watch South Park; and
                      2: he sees no difference between “A” and “E”; and
                      3: he can’t spell “Buddha”.

                    • Morrissey

                      Well, now we know three things about Morrissey.

                      1: he doesn’t watch South Park; and

                      I do, actually. In fact, one of the unkinder souls on this forum recently compared me to Cartman.

                      2: he sees no difference between “A” and “E”; and
                      3: he can’t spell “Buddha”.

                      In fact, I can even spell it in Japanese….

                    • McFlock

                      Cartman? Nah.
                      Tweak.

                    • Populuxe1

                      Rape Culture at work…

                  • weka

                    “Certainly not by the women in Rape Crisis, who recognize a bogus rape claim when they see one.”

                    Morrissey, I assume you are talking about the group Women Against Rape. They have never said that the rape allegation was bogus, and it does your cause great disservice to keep insinuating that they did. Please stop.

                    Here is (part of) what they actually said –


                    Justice for an accused rapist does not deny justice for his accusers. But in this case justice is being denied both to accusers and accused.

                    The judicial process has been corrupted. On the one hand, the names of the women have been circulated on the internet; they have been trashed, accused of setting a “honey trap”, and seen their allegations dismissed as “not real rape”. On the other hand, Assange is dealt with by much of the media as if he were guilty, though he has not even been charged. It is not for us to decide whether or not the allegations are true and whether what happened amounts to rape or sexual violence – we don’t have all the facts and what has been said so far has not been tested. But we do know that rape victims’ right to anonymity and defendants’ right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty are both crucial to a just judicial process.

                    Swedish and British courts are responsible for how the women’s allegations have been handled. As with every rape case, the women are not in charge of the case, the state is.

                    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/aug/23/women-against-rape-julian-assange

                    • Morrissey

                      Morrissey, I assume you are talking about the group Women Against Rape.

                      weka, thanks for tidying up my careless error—it was indeed Women Against Rape that, as with every other independent and non-partisan organization, pointed out the spuriousness of these allegations.

                      They have never said that the rape allegation was bogus, and it does your cause great disservice to keep insinuating that they did.

                      You are correct that the Women Against Rape organization did not use my blunt and undiplomatic language, but the meaning of their statement is perfectly clear: there is not, and never was, any merit to those charges against Julian Assange.

                      Please stop.

                      Fair enough: I did rather roughly paraphrase Women Against Rape’s condemnation of this witch-hunt.

                    • Populuxe1

                      Morrissey:

                      “You are correct that the Women Against Rape organization did not use my blunt and undiplomatic language, but the meaning of their statement is perfectly clear: there is not, and never was, any merit to those charges against Julian Assange.”

                      It does no such thing – they have quite clearly indicated that both sides have been denied the justice of a trial. The confirmation bias is strong with this one, oy vey.

                      Why is it so hard for you to manage Assange as advocate for freedom of information and Assange as smug misogynist prick simultaneously? The two aren’t related.

                    • Morrissey

                      It does no such thing – they have quite clearly indicated that both sides have been denied the justice of a trial. The confirmation bias is strong with this one, oy vey.

                      “Confirmation bias”? What nonsense. Women Against Rape in Sweden issued many statements condemning this witch-hunt, pointing out that it possibly endangers the credibility of real rape charges in future.

                      Why is it so hard for you to manage Assange as advocate for freedom of information and Assange as smug misogynist prick simultaneously?

                      There is no evidence he is misogynist. I note your use of the word “smug” as a replacement for “handsome”.

                      The two aren’t related.

                      Good. You’ve said something that makes sense.

                      That is encouraging.

              • Pasupial

                @ Morrissey

                Chris Trotter is no fool. I not infrequently disagree with his conclusions myself (and his recent comparison of Dunne with Merlin was a bit bizarre), but he can express himself cogently. Plus his knowledge of the Kiwi Left’s history is far more extensive than my own (certainly greater than Shearer’s, and he’s supposed to be its leader).

                The problem might be in hearing him on the Mora show where he strives to be less confrontational lest he be banned like Bomber (I don’t tune in often myself). His blogs on The Daily Blog often come at things from angles I’d not previously considered. He had some interesting things to say on Citizen A this week (and no faux-Mexican voices). Link: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/06/13/citizen-a-martyn-bradbury-chris-trotter-david-slack-on-dunne-prism-gi-evictions/

                @TRP

                I tend to stay out of the Assange argument; people have their opinions and nothing I type is likely to change them. Though I do admire WikiLeaks itself, and leakers such as Manning. However, I would say that Assange can be both; a “political dissenter”, and; accused of unlawful sexual contact by non-use of condoms in Sweden (which is a fair way from the usual definition of; “rapist”): The two things are not mutually exclusive.

                Also, if I thought the USA was keen to extradite me into one of its torture hell-holes for; an extended interrogation followed by a show trial, then I’d be holed up in whatever safe haven I could find myself! That’s more prudence than cowardice.

                • Morrissey

                  Chris Trotter is no fool.

                  He certainly acted like a fool yesterday. But you’re right no doubt; the problem is not a lack of intellect, it’s a lack of integrity.

                  I not infrequently disagree with his conclusions myself (and his recent comparison of Dunne with Merlin was a bit bizarre), but he can express himself cogently.

                  “Haw haw haw haw haw! Give him a sun lamp!” is cogent, I guess. Unwittingly cogent, but a cogent demonstration of Trotter’s morality, as well as his dull sense of humour.

                  Plus his knowledge of the Kiwi Left’s history is far more extensive than my own (certainly greater than Shearer’s, and he’s supposed to be its leader).

                  Barry Gustafson and Michael Bassett also have an extensive knowledge of the Kiwi Left’s history. Just knowing things is one thing; having the courage to act morally is another.

                  The problem might be in hearing him on the Mora show where he strives to be less confrontational lest he be banned like Bomber.

                  Nobody expects him to be confrontational, certainly not as confrontational as Bomber. Trotter could simply have made the point that Assange is being persecuted and that his being forced to stay in the Ecuadorian Embassy is a grave violation of human rights. It is not a trivial or laughing matter, as those guffawing in that studio seemed to believe.

                  Also, if I thought the USA was keen to extradite me into one of its torture hell-holes for; an extended interrogation followed by a show trial, then I’d be holed up in whatever safe haven I could find myself! That’s more prudence than cowardice.

                  The only cowardice here was on the part of Chris Trotter, who apparently lacks the gumption to stand up and speak out against evil.

                  Your points are well made, Pasupial, and your moniker is intriguing.

          • Te Reo Putake 1.1.1.1.2

            I’m not denying there is a problem, Saarbo, just that Shearer doesn’t seem to be the kind to lie. Weak, bumbling and ineffective, yes, but mendacious, no.

            Shearer is in an awful position. He doesn’t enjoy the support of the majority of his caucus (nobody else does either), he has many caucus members who clearly don’t give a flying one about the Labour party, it’s members or its values and he is likely to scrape in as winner of the next election when he should be enjoying Lange era leads in the polls.

            I admire his determination to go on though, despite all the factors ranged against him. It takes a special kind of guy to be that lacking in competence, gravitas and authority and still retain the belief that he is the best option for leadership.

            • mickysavage 1.1.1.1.2.1

              Do I sense a changed opinion TRP?

              • Te Reo Putake

                No, not really, micky. Just a sense of despair that we are saddled with a dozen or so self serving egotists when we need more MP’s who put the party and the people first.

                • Colonial Viper

                  You’ve got a good political instinct mate and have taught me a lot about Labour politics, but am also glad that you do see some of the same issues as I do, and how they are painfully playing out. The nation needs better.

                  • Te Reo Putake

                    Cheers, CV. In the long run, we will get our party back. Just wish it was sooner. Anyhoo, footy beckons. Catch ya later.

            • felix 1.1.1.1.2.2

              “when he should be enjoying Lange era leads in the polls.”

              There’s no “should” about it TRP. If he were better at his job he “would” be leading in the polls. He’s not, because nobody believes he’s good at his job.

              And no, it’s not because the caucus aren’t very good at being led. That’s desperate mate.

              “It takes a special kind of guy to be that lacking in competence, gravitas and authority and still retain the belief that he is the best option for leadership.”

              Not at all. The world is full of deluded, incompetent egomaniacs. Could have picked any of a number of them to lead Labour but no, they had to especially import this one and gift him a seat ‘cos he’s just so frickin awesome.

              • Te Reo Putake

                “And no, it’s not because the caucus aren’t very good at being led. That’s desperate mate.”

                Not actually what I said, but correct none the less. Most of these MP’s toed the line under Clark becuase she was better than them and they knew it. No so much under Goff and nothing close to respect under Shearer. There is nothing Shearer can do to them and they know it. And they will treat the party with contempt as well, for the same reason.

              • Colonial Viper

                The irony being that Shearer would have made an excellent Cabinet Minister and could have taken the path of building his reputation and political credentials up over time.

                • Whafe

                  CV – is there any agreement within your supporters here of whom could actually begin to have the leadership skills of which will need a very talented individual to take on the leadership of the Labour Party?

                  Not a trick question at all.

                  It is a given, NZ needs a strong opposition, at present we have nothing close to an opposition…. It is a party made up of factions, within factions of factions of factions…

                  • Colonial Viper

                    Well, I can’t speak for anyone else but I am on record as being a Cunliffe supporter. At this stage going into 2014 I don’t particularly think it’s important that Cunliffe even be in a top 3 position, but he needs to be on the Front Bench and be given leeway to open up on the National Government, at will.

                    Now who knows if the following can work together on a personal basis but for gawds sakes they are supposed to be professionals so they should; I think that the top 5 or 6 need to work as a public facing leadership fire team scoring real political points and educating the public and the media, and in no particular order I would probably have:

                    – Robertson
                    – Cunliffe
                    – Wall
                    – Goff
                    – Little
                    – Adern

                    And if Helen Kelly were available…

                    something old something new something borrowed something blue 😛

                    • felix

                      Who’s the “blue”? 😉

                      As for who should be leading the party? It’s tempting to say “anyone but Shearer”, but basing choosing a leader on the basis that they’re “anyone but” someone else would be fucking retarded and look where it got Labour last time.

                      I do however remain of the opinion that there is no-one in the Labour caucus who could do a worse job than Shearer.

                    • Rogue Trooper

                      something fair something true 😎

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      I do however remain of the opinion that there is no-one in the Labour caucus who could do a worse job than Shearer.

                      I’d disagree with that. I think there are a lot of people in Labour’s caucus that could do significant damage if they were leader. It’s the ones doing damage without being leader.

                    • Whafe

                      You mention that they should be able to work together. They are professionals.

                      In all honesty, the vast majority of the issue is that they just can’t work together. Please do tell and show me that they can in fact work together..

                      If Cunliffe was leader, there is no way that Robertson could work with him…

                      Helen Kelly Felix, could do a far worse job than Shearer, and thats being polite.

                      Someone within the running of Labour needs to bang some heads together and teach if it is possible that the team MUST work together, because it is quite the opposite…

                      You are all to involved to actually make the tough calls…. You cant tell me the hypocrisy of the last weeks antics are what you all believe in?

                    • Rhinocrates

                      While I despise a couple of those – Robertson for being a gray apparatchik, Goff more seriously for being profoundly anti-democratic, I do appreciate their limited competence, provided that they don’t get too much influence.

                      I’ve met Helen Kelly, she helped me in a labour dispute, so yeah, whenever, wherever would be good. She’s a strong advocate (Hoots’ hissy fit and personal slur proves that).

                    • Colonial Viper

                      Rhino – it’s no democratic socialist dream team as you correctly imply, but you have also seen to the truth that it is a Labour team which would incinerate National’s chances on E-Day into little smouldering cinders.

                    • felix

                      Whafe, couple of things.

                      1. Any team will work well together when led well. Not the other way around.

                      2. You know nothing about Helen Kelly.

                      3. I’m not involved at all, thanks.

                      4. What hypocrisy? Aren’t Labour allowed to vote freely on legislation anymore?

                      5. You should be questioning National’s corruption and conflict of interest in this matter. They’re accepting gifts and favours from a company in who’s favour they are are passing laws.

                    • David H

                      But they will probably just keep on the same ol’ same ol’, and flush any chance of winning straight down the crapper just to keep Cunliffe off of the front bench.

                • Anne

                  The irony being that Shearer would have made an excellent Cabinet Minister and could have taken the path of building his reputation and political credentials up over time.

                  Got it in one CV. But the small bunch of self serving egotists had another agenda – one that had little to do with taking NZ to a better place, or respecting members and supporters. Indeed, they were doing David Shearer no favours by pushing him up to the top of the ladder before he had acquired the necessary political knowledge and experience. But of course that also goes back to that other agenda?

                  • Which agenda was that Anne?

                    The internal one or the external one?

                    • Anne

                      Until more recent times, I thought there was only an internal agenda mickysavage. That is, a contest for the top political jobs and the power trappings that go with them. But revelations over the past 8 months or so – and the past week or two in particular – strongly suggest there was an external component to that agenda as well. Am I not the only one who has suspicions…?

                    • Colonial Viper

                      “Gotta keep the power out of the hands of the looney lefties, communists and democratic socialists…” that’s a Labour faction line that right wing writers will happily listen to.

                    • Rogue Trooper

                      Interesting

                    • Anne

                      @ mickysavage
                      Thanks for a timely reminder of an important Fran O’Sullivan link – more important than she would have known at the time.

                      When Lange rolled Bill Rowling he catapulted the infamous “fish and chip plotters” Sir Roger Douglas, Richard Prebble and Mike Moore to very senior roles, Lange reaffirmed his desire to be surrounded by politicians who were “surging in debate” and “active in the cause”.

                      And who exactly were Sir Roger Douglas, Richard Prebble and Mike Moore (perhaps) really working for – apart from being captive to a group of very rich NZers or ex NZers? In the end I think the external component of that political era also went a bit further than was immediately recognisable.

                      David Lange was taken for a ride. But I think he got his own back.

                    • Anne

                      This is the reality which belies the “Anyone but Cunliffe” faction’s convenient claim that Phil Goff was seriously undermined by just one person, his finance spokesman.

                      A lie that I suspect is still being perpetrated… from external sources as well as some in the ABC caucus club.

                      A testimony to how much David Cunliffe is feared.

                    • Aye Anne. This particular allegation made it clear to me that there is something very wrong in the party. Because amongst other things the Goff was not able to recall the amount of tax income the CGT would produce in the first year that it actually did generate income. The figure had been available for months but there was a delay in releasing the tax policy because the PREFU figures had only just come out. The claim that sabotage happened by Cunliffe is not only clearly wrong but so wrong it has to be malicious.

                      I blogged about it at the time at http://waitakerenews.blogspot.co.nz/2011/12/is-new-zealand-politics-being-taken.html and I believe the comments stand.

                    • Anne

                      @mickysavage
                      At the time you posted that blog there was a block of some sort and I coudn’t get into your site to read it. Reading it now it’s almost uncanny at how prophetic that post has proven to be:

                      The clear impression is that the sudden publicity surge behind a Shearer leadership campaign was orchestrated across the left and right wing. This is disturbing. Has New Zealand politics been reduced to a group of powerful people holding sway over different political parties and being able to exercise significant influence over them?

                      1. NZ politics has been reduced to a group of powerful people holding sway over different political parties… that is what I meant by the other agenda. And some of it (I’m sure) is coming from beyond NZ!

                      2. O’Sullivan’s claim of a return to the cloth-cap politics of old was frankly a crazy bit of ideological garbage with NO BASIS IN FACT. Could anyone – with even half a brain – in all honesty describe Helen Clark’s Labour govt as a return to cloth cap ideology?

                      That so many caucus members plus some (who should’ve known better) beyond the caucus fell for the nonsense still makes me wonder…

                    • Olwyn

                      At the time I was told three reasons for the caucus’s supporting Shearer, two of which I remember, the other I’ve forgotten. One was that the media would be more friendly to Labour under Shearer, and another was that Labour would be more likely to win back the rural seats with Shearer at the helm. So far, I do not see where effort has gone into winning back the rural seats, and I guess the media may be more friendly in the sense of not actively setting out to visit ruin on them individually, apart from the badmouthing of Cunliffe in which they were complicit. The polls, however, have stayed exactly as they were under Goff, despite the shine having come off Key, despite rising unemployment and despite the attacks on the vulnerable having escalated quite dramatically.

                      The opacity of the Labour caucus, and the ferocity with which they attacked Cunliffe at the conference makes one suspect that they have agreed, with God knows who, to muzzle the left and maintain the current status quo, in exchange for God knows what. One assumes they must be trying to pull it off on the basis that if you make no commitments you cannot stand accused of betrayal.

                    • Anne

                      …one suspect that they have agreed, with God knows who, to muzzle the left and maintain the current status quo, in exchange for God knows what.

                      For power. Pure, unadulterated power, and access to the hallowed halls of local (and global) corporate hospitality.

                      That should upset a few people. 👿

                    • Olwyn

                      This is a reply to Anne: It is possible then, that they have decided to do their masters’ bidding to insure themselves against attacks like the one on Aaron Gilmour, which would have the potential to close the relevant doors. Nothing to do with actually representing anyone. I read the catch cry “We must appeal to the middle class” as code for BAU. Essentially, it’s an argument that goes. We represent Labour. You cannot get anything more Labour than a Labour MP. Therefore, we must represent ourselves.

            • Saarbo 1.1.1.1.2.3

              yes, thanks TRP. Incredibly frustrating for us supporters on the left, watching National introduce legislation daily that is increasing inequality and breaking down our communities and meanwhile our main representative party are acting like imbeciles, protecting their own little patches…they are certainly not going to be winning any Nelson Mandela awards for selflessness this lot.

      • BM 1.1.2

        Total bollocks.

        They were all there to meet with sky city management, Shearer included.

      • Mary 1.1.3

        Isolated this whole Sky City thing isn’t really a big deal. If Labour were a strong and credible Opposition they’d weather something like this easily and the whole thing would be forgotten in a day. The problem is that Labour isn’t strong or credible or anything like a worthy opposition. So when things like this come up highlighted is how completely pathetic Labour’s become. There’s no depth there whatsoever so the focus goes on the relatively minor and irrelevant things. And at the same time the government gets undue mileage out of comments like “deeply hypocritical”. Well, it’s not “deeply” hypocritical at all. Hypocritical, sure, and Shearer and his mates should have known better. But it shouldn’t signal the end of the world, like it has. Labour is currently so weak it can withstand very little. Key et al can say almost anything and they look ridiculous. All of this means one thing: David Shearer, how ever nice a guy he is, cannot continue as leader. Deep down I think he knows this himself.

    • Ad 1.2

      Nah i am quite happy to watch everyone in caucus and on this site who supported Shearer – and his core cabal who were in that Sky City box – to just swing in a good cold wind for a few days yet.
      You put him there people.

      • Morrissey 1.2.1

        You put him there people.

        To be fair, they only put him there because they were bamboozled into it by Matthew Hooton and his friends at that epochal barbecue.

        • Colonial Viper 1.2.1.1

          Veuve cliquot tends to do that at the right dosage

        • felix 1.2.1.2

          To be fair to Matthew he wasn’t really involved.

          All he did was heartily encourage Shearer in person, recommend him to all his influential contacts, sing his praises all over the media for months on end and gleefully take part in the smear campaign against his opponents.

    • Paul 1.3

      Time to bring in some fresh faces without the taint of neo-liberalism.

    • Boadicea 1.4

      Grant? You naughty Roman Baiter Alanz. There is nothing funny about that bad joke.

      Grant? The Grant that pushed unproven Shearer into the role to block Cunliffe?
      Grant? The Grant who hand picked the incompetent staff in Shearer’s office?
      Grant? The Grant who had Labour third to the Greens and the Nats in Wellington Central?
      Grant? The Grant who has only ever worked inside the Beehive and who gets agrophobia when he leaves the environs?

      Shearer has to be replaced immediately. But not by the Machiavellian who was instrumental in giving us a clear DUD and exacerbated the situation.

      Grant and his mates did the numbers a few months back when Shearer had lower polls and pulled back. They are now awaiting the latest Roy Morgan figures gleefully.

      The only person with the integrity, competence and public respect to be a SUCCESSFUL Labour Leader is David Cunliffe.

  2. logie97 2

    Apparently Key is concerned about the difficulty Kiwi’s future Mums and Dads are having participating in our home-owning democracy.

    Perhaps if he was to legislate that residents only could own property.
    Secondly legislate for a maximum of two houses (including the beach house) that any family, company or trust can own. That way the speculators would have to divest themselves of their portfolios and supply would far outstrip demand and sanity would return to the market.

    • RedLogix 2.1

      Or you could just go with the idea that “house owning” does not equal “democracy”.

    • mikesh 2.2

      Rationing property in areas where shortages exixt, such as Auckland, would make sense, and it would not stop property owners within the designated areas purchasing outside their areas if they wanted holiday homes somewhere.simply pass a law that anyone who owns one or more homes in a designated area cannot purchase any more.

      Getting exixting exixting land landlords to divest themselves of their current portfolios, however desirable that may be, might nevertheless be problematic.

      • logie97 2.2.1

        … threaten them with massive property taxes. Give them a three month grace on capital gains tax so they can unload a few of their houses.

        • mikesh 2.2.1.1

          … sounds a bit brutal, and probably unjust, where landlords have previously purchased properties in good faith. Preventing them from purchasing further properties, however, would achieve the desired result of reducing demand.

  3. Morrissey 3

    “Haw haw haw haw haw!”
    The humour-deficient Chris Trotter fails again

    The Panel, Radio NZ National, Friday 14 June 2013
    Jim Mora, Lisa Scott, Chris Trotter

    On Wednesday night’s edition of Backbenchers, horrified viewers witnessed the embarrassing spectacle of Labour List makeweight Sue Moroney bumbling her way through an excruciatingly inept attempt to formulate a coherent answer when Wallace Chapman asked her if she supported calls for New Zealand to offer asylum to “that American whistle-blower.”

    Yesterday, long-suffering Panel listeners heard an unusually inane and depraved exchange about another dissenter being targeted for state vengeance. What is particularly interesting here is the behaviour of the pompous, unfunny, self-styled “leftist” Chris Trotter…..

    MORA: What else have you got for us?
    SUSAN BALDACCI: Well, this latest study shows that we’re all a little bit paranoid. There are three kinds of paranoia, apparently—
    MORA: Three kinds of paranoia?
    SUSAN BALDACCI: [voice betraying slight edge of irritation] Y-y-y-y-yes.

    She gives a brief survey of an article about paranoia she has just downloaded from the internet, and then the program takes a sinister turn….

    SUSAN BALDACCI: Julian Assange is a little bit paranoid.
    MORA: Oh yes? Hur, hur, hur, hur!
    SUSAN BALDACCI: Yeah, he claims that being holed up in the Ecuadorian embassy, he is deprived of his human right of getting enough sun.
    MORA: Is it a human right to get enough sun?
    SUSAN BALDACCI: That’s what he claims! He claims that being not allowed to leave London is violating his “human rights”.
    MORA: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
    LISA SCOTT: Ha ha ha ha ha ha!
    CHRIS TROTTER: Haw haw haw haw haw!
    SUSAN BALDACCI: He thinks he should be allowed out of his Ecuador embassy hideout to sunbathe.
    MORA: He can get out on the balcony, where he gave that speech!
    LISA SCOTT: Yeah! Ha ha ha ha ha!
    CHRIS TROTTER: Yeah! Ha ha ha ha ha! Or get him a sun lamp! THAT’s what he needs!
    LISA SCOTT: Ha ha ha ha ha!
    SUSAN BALDACCI: He he he he he!
    TROTTER: I suspect the ambassador’s just sick of the sight of him! [Assumes wheedling mock-Hispanic accent] “Are you ever going to LEEEEAAAVE?”
    MORA: Oh that’s very good! Ha ha ha ha!
    LISA SCOTT: Ha ha ha ha ha!
    MORA: Sun lamp! Get him a sun lamp!!!
    LISA SCOTT: Ha ha ha ha ha!
    MORA: Ha ha ha ha ha! Back after the news!

    Read a fuller account of this dreadful edition of The Panel here….

    Open mike 14/06/2013

    • CC 3.1

      Chris is no doubt keeping his future fee options open now that a Fairfax stalking horse is going to be the in charge at RNZ.

  4. Ad 4

    Do I believe my eyes to see that Shearer is planning to expose the Five Eyes network to a public review? Does he understand national security at all?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10890675

    Worse, Norman even asks whether China would appreciate that network’s influence here. Is he really saying we need to balance the interests of the intelligence networks of China and the Five Eyes network in our security policy?

    • karol 4.1

      Both are asking for an inquiry. Nowhere is either Norman or Shearer asking for a “public” inquiry.
      I think Norman is talking about balancing NZ’s economic agreements with China and agreements with the US.

      • Colonial Viper 4.1.1

        The Pacific is the 21st century playground of two superpowers, an imperial one well established and unparalled, and one just developing but without even a true deep water navy. It won’t pay to piss either one off.

  5. David H 5

    This was part of an answer I gave to Blip Yesterday.

    Does anyone remember the Movie Stealth ?

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0382992/

    Here’s the real US Military version. Nightmare stuff this one is. We’re right on cue for Skynet and Terminators.
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/30/o_noes_ban_the_killer_robots_again/

    And from what I have been reading these are completely autonomous just Program and go but there’s NO calling it back

    “there’s no human pilot in constant control as there is with those, and once the jet is in the air there’s no way for human commanders to communicate with it.”

    This is a scary scary piece of technology. And now they don’t need to have bases in foreign countries, as it’s now Carrier Based.
    http://au.businessinsider.com/the-x-47b-drone-photos-brave-scary-new-world-2013-5?op=1

  6. Hi folks!

    Seen this?

    Media Alert from Auckland Mayoral candidate Penny Bright : “Will THIS help stop the Auckland Draft Unitary Plan?”
    _________________________________________________________

    On what LAWFUL basis has the Auckland Council based this ‘mantra’ of an extra million people coming to Auckland over the next 30 years?

    On what LAWFUL basis has the advice of Chief Planning Officer Dr. Roger Blakeley been followed, to use the Department of Statistics ‘high’ population growth projections, when they recommended using ‘medium’ population growth projections?

    How come two key infrastructure providers, Watercare Services and Auckland Transport are using ‘medium’ population growth projections for their Auckland region asset management plans?

    Petition 2011/ 64 of Penelope Bright, and Supplementary Evidence to support this Petition, are being considered as ‘Items of Business’ before the Social Services Select Committee.

    Will this ‘throw a spanner in the works’ and help stop in its tracks, both the Auckland Draft Unitary Plan, and the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill?

    We shall see…………………..

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Presented/Petitions/5/0/5/50DBHOH_PET3157_1-Petition-of-Penelope-Mary-Bright-requesting-that.htm

    Petition of Penelope Mary Bright

    Requesting that Parliament declines to proceed with the Housing Accords and Special Housing Areas Bill until the lawfulness of the reliance of Auckland Council on the New Zealand Department of Statistics’ “high” population growth projections, instead of their “medium” population growth projections for the Auckland Spatial Plan, has been properly and independently investigated, taking into consideration that both Auckland Transport and Watercare Services Ltd, have relied upon “medium” population growth projections for their infrastructural asset management plans.

    Supplementary Evidence to support the above-mentioned Petition:

    http://www.occupyaucklandvsaucklandcouncilappeal.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Housing-Accord-and-Special-Housing-Areas-Bil-Supplementary-Evidence-13-Juna-2013.pdf

    In my considered opinion, this evidence is damning and proves that lawful due process for the Auckland (Spatial) Plan, which the Auckland Unitary Plan is supposed to implement, has NOT been followed in a proper way.

    I have requested, on the basis of this EVIDENCE, that the Social Services Select Committee do the following:

    “14 a) Formally request that Auckland Council provide the following information that I have requested, and not been given, (or been able to find for myself in the Auckland Council Future Vision / Auckland Plan Committee minutes:

    1) Please provide the minutes, of the particular Auckland Council Future Vision Committee meeting, (including the resolution number), which specifically resolved to take the advice of the Auckland Council Chief Planning Officer, Dr Roger Blakeley, to rely on the Department of Statistics ‘High’ population growth projection, as outlined in their letter dated 28 March 2011, for the DRAFT Auckland Spatial Plan ( the ‘Auckland Unleashed’ document), for public discussion in March 2011.

    (I note that if the Department of Statistics letter was dated 28 March 2011, and the only meetings of the Auckland Future Vision meetings were held on 1 March 2011, 7 March 2011, and 11 March 2011, it is unclear to me how Auckland Council elected representatives could have discussed this letter, and resolved to rely on the advice of Auckland Council Chief Planning Officer Dr Roger Blakeley to use their ‘high’ population growth projections, prior to release of the ‘Auckland Unleashed’ document for public discussion in March 2011? )

    2) Please provide a copy / copies of the competent, professional legal advice, which confirmed the lawfulness of the Auckland Council Chief Planning Officer, Dr Roger Blakeley, in giving that advice, (for the DRAFT Auckland Spatial Plan ( the ‘Auckland Unleashed’ document), for public discussion in March 2011.) and the lawfulness of Auckland Council elected representatives accepting that advice, given the following statutory duty outlined in the Local Government (Auckland Council) Act 2009 s.79 (4) (c):

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2009/0032/latest/DLM3338660.html

    3) Please provide the minutes, of the particular Auckland Council Auckland Plan Committee meeting, and the resolution number, which specifically resolved to reconfirm their taking the advice of the Auckland Council Chief Planning Officer, Dr Roger Blakeley, to rely upon the Department of Statistics ‘High’ population growth projection, as outlined in their letter dated 28 March 2011, for the DRAFT Auckland Plan for consultation in September 2011

    4) Please provide a copy / copies of the competent, professional legal advice, which again confirmed the lawfulness of the Auckland Council Chief Planning Officer, Dr Roger Blakeley, ( for the DRAFT Auckland Plan for consultation in September 2011) in giving that advice, and the lawfulness of Auckland Council elected representatives accepting that advice, given the following statutory duty outlined in the Local Government (Auckland Council) Act 2009 s.79 (4) (c):

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2009/0032/latest/DLM3338660.html

    5) Please provide the minutes, of the particular Auckland Council Auckland Plan Committee meeting, (including the resolution number) , which specifically resolved to reconfirm their taking the advice of the Auckland Council Chief Planning Officer, Dr Roger Blakeley, to rely on the Department of Statistics ‘High’ population growth projection, as outlined in their letter dated 28 March 2011, for the FINAL Auckland Plan which was decided upon in March 2012.

    6) Please provide a copy / copies of the competent, professional legal advice, which again confirmed the lawfulness of the Auckland Council Chief Planning Officer, Dr Roger Blakeley, in giving that advice, (for the FINAL Auckland Plan which was decided upon in March 2012) .and the lawfulness of Auckland Council elected representatives accepting that advice, given the following statutory duty outlined in the Local Government (Auckland Council) Act 2009 s.79 (4) (c):

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2009/0032/latest/DLM3338660.html

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption /anti-privatisation’ campaigner

    2013 Auckland Mayoral candidate

  7. Tim 7

    Can I just draw your attention to this:
    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/04/05/migrant-workers-used-and-abused/

    and my comment – I think around 1AM.

    Only because the illustrious sucker-upper Soimun has recently expressed a feigned concern for the situation THAT IS STILL GOING ON – and as yet (1 year on), complaints that I’m aware of have still not received a response from that bugger’s muddle mixture of functions known as ‘MoBIE’.

    The trick is for Immigration to TIE visas to specific employers – such that the employee gets royally ripped whilst being UTTERLY reliant on the good grace of the employer.

    For those that resent all these bloody foreigners coming in here and talking ‘all our jobs’, I say we (read private tertiary institutions and others) should not have made false promises in the first place.
    They might also consider that this is another way that wages and conditions are being driven DOWN for any/every worker.
    That’s not to mention this wonderful ‘egalitarian’ country called Nu Zil’s reputation o’seas, that no doubt the instigators will be doing their very best to suck up to.

    I’ve just become aware of YET another case.

    • Tim 7.1

      Actually, I’ve become aware of two additional instances. One reliant on prostitution to survive.
      Should he/she actually get what was expected – they now have to come up with (or guarantee) that they have $15K in the bank (as proof that they can sustain their living without being a ‘burden’ on the Nu Zill tex-payer)
      So having been ripped off 30 grand plus (and whilst they, and their family desperately try to repay that money), having attained degree (‘graduated’) from a private tertiary institution that promised the world, but who delivered no less than 5 different lecturers throughout a semester and has subsequently gone under (i.e. – out of business – no accountability – no means of recovery for services not delivered), they must now effectively sell themselves to get what was promised.

      I’m angry!. VERY fucking angry! I just console myself knowing that the very people this government will soon/have already been trying to grovel to, have members in their family that are affected.

      It’s a far better policy to just be upfront and honest

    • Tim 7.2

      mmmm – the lack of any sort of response after 7 hours and 47 minute is pretty telling.
      Maybe its because they’re only a few nargies and chinks!
      I sometimes wonder about the ‘left’ – I mean I’ve given up wondering about the Labour Party, but the lack of any interest here is pretty telling on this issue.

      Given 3 decades of conditioning though, I don;t suppose I should have expected anything else, though I lived in hope. I still keep asking myself – did I post this in the wrong place?

      But then…just as I wonder sometimes about leaked reports and who ‘MIGHT be responsible’ (with some sort of limitation on a ‘tight 5). FUCK ME with a feather duster!
      The bleeding obvious seems to be the least obvious, and that’s perhaps what many are relying on.
      (If I wrote a report, of which I was both proud, but also concerned about FURTHER sanitisation, there might be various means by which I might ensure its contents were not going to be neutered further. I’d probably have to rely on friends and family, AND whoever was willing to assist).

      I’m now expecting a load of (awe geez – but the timelines don;t quite fit, and all that sort of kaka).
      I’m fucking glad the patriotic have already paid off their mortgages and are well placed to just fuckng retire and be shot of the bastards

  8. johnm 8

    The Artist Taxi Driver in the U$K
    Make no mistake it’s a class war,hunt the poor

    “They came for the disabled, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t disabled.

    Then they came for the elderly, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t old.

    Then they came for the poor, and I didn’t speak up because I was doing ok.

    Then they came for me, and there was nobody left to speak for me.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwbY1hyYt2U

    Coming here, 300000 kiwis to be harassed off benefits in the next 10 years. They’ll copy the punitive sanctions regime of the socially collapsing U$K

  9. Rosetinted 9

    Good stuff on Radionz this morning. One on lack of concern about investigating prior notice by FBI about 9/11 and the way they seem to be tied in knots by their own complex dealings. Also set up a whistleblowers association.

    This will get you quickly to the links. http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday

    8:15 Sibel Edmonds: Sibel Edmonds is the publisher and editor of Boiling Frogs Post and the author of the 2012 memoir, Classified Woman: the Sibel Edmonds Story (ISBN: 978-0-61560-222-6). She has a MA in Public Policy and International Commerce from George Mason University, a BA in Criminal Justice and Psychology from George Washington University, and is the recipient of the 2006 PEN Newman’s Own First Amendment Award for her “commitment to preserving the free flow of information in the United States in a time of growing international isolation and increasing government secrecy”.
    http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/
    http://www.classifiedwoman.com/

    and a discussion that contains a lot of the words – “conspiracy theories”
    11:05 Charles Pigden
    Charles Pigden is Associate Professor at the Department of Philosophy, University of Otago. He has published on a number of topics including Hume on Is and Ought, the ethics of Bertrand Russell, and conspiracy theories.
    http://www.otago.ac.nz/philosophy/Staff/charles_pigden.html

    visiting speaker to the Royal Society –
    9:05 Terry Speed
    Professor Terry Speed is a world leader in bioinformatics and is regarded as one of Australia’s most important statisticians. His work has helped to identify areas of the human genome that contribute to cancer, genes that are vital for embryonic development and malaria proteins responsible for initiating infection in human red blood cells. Professor Speed is a Fellow of the Royal Society, London, was presented with the 2012 Thomson Reuter’s Citation Award and the 2012 Victoria Prize for Science and Innovation, and is visiting New Zealand as 2013 Distinguished Visitor for the Royal Society of New Zealand, presenting the talk, Understanding Epigenetics Through Mathematics, in Dunedin (18 June), Christchurch (19 June) and Wellington (20 June.
    http://www.royalsociety.org.nz/events/annual/distinguished-speaker/2013/

    • Rogue Trooper 9.1

      Alasdair MacIntyre
      Revelation-Heidegger
      trade Bertrand Russell texts in for some Huxleys 😀

  10. Rogue Trooper 10

    The Nation : The Sequel ae.
    When Rachel (fine China Girl) Meets G.I Joe (that village idiot Guy).
    Scene I.Act I.
    Sour Milk.
    Guy- Primary Industries growth outlook (otherwise fine); 7% year on year for the next four years.
    -primarily dairying
    Rachel- intensification, more land and irrigation.
    Guy- evades intensification outcomes enquiry.

    PRISM
    -phone logs, locations, times.
    Gamma Group of Companies
    Dr. Peter Gutmann, AU
    -gmail-everything you have sent, Facebook, GMail, Twitter
    -meta-data = information about communications
    -and may not require warrants regarding the “whos, when, and wheres”.
    -Google’s income is from selling data about you.
    -loyalty cards; an anecdotal example of the local Warehouse (Target) knowing your daughter is pregnant before you do through data-mining.

    Dr.Norman
    -China views 5 Eyes with anxiety
    -Key; has broken compact made with the electorate, post-Brash
    -‘rule of law’ undermined-The Law Society, Geddis et al;
    -“never been to a corporate box- not a good look for a politician”.

    the erudite Colin James
    -this govt. give less attention to due process than Muldoons.
    -Sky corporate box nonesense is damaging for Labour.
    -Gordon John Thompsen
    -‘tested’ the ‘waters’ how Shearer is held, and it is unlikely he will be changed.
    -Russell Norman “the Leader of The Opposition”.
    -Key’s shine is (still) coming off, showing vulnerabilities; SOME CONSERVATIVES in the PARTY HAVING DOUBTS ABOUT HIM!

    • David H 10.1

      (that village idiot Guy) My local Trough feeder (MP), and a very apt description of him.

  11. Rogue Trooper 11

    Media3
    (that Jose Babosa is xtatically funny).
    Ben Gracewood- Computer Programmer
    -“we should be worried about changes to GCSB, etc”.

    Adam Boileau- Internet Security Specialist
    -“the collection of LOCATION data is not given enough scrutiny to” (implications).
    now this is the really sad part,
    “these kids living their lives through Facebook and Google+ (sexting etc) are gonna get to 30 and regret it”. Maybe Sam will come round about then…

  12. Rogue Trooper 12

    raise those Rosetints

    The Apotheosis of Master Sergeant Doe

    Welcome , dear Master Sergeant to the fold
    Your pace was firm, your passage mean and bold.

    Lean your entry, in studied Savior’s form
    Combat fatigued, self-styled a cleansing storm.

    Let other shoulders sprout gold epaulettes
    You shunned those status-greedy etiquettes,

    Stayed simple Master Sergeant. The nation knew
    Who was the Master; the Sergeants rendered due.

    The comrade band diminished.The bloody contest played
    It’s grand finale.Alone the Master planner stayed

    The course. The lean had rounded out. The barrack slob,
    Close-crop peak-cap head affects new heartthrob

    Swinger images. The tie pins are no paste.
    The spoils of office, easy acquired taste

    Distend the appetite, contract the scruples.
    A crow may answer eagle, perched on borrowed steeples.

    Flown on flags, graced by diplomatic corps
    We consecrate the nightmare, kiss anation’s sore.

    To mask the real, the world is turned a stage,
    A rampant play of symbols masks a people’s rage.

    The ass that mimes the Lord’s anointed wears
    A face that once was human, prone to fears

    But crowns are crowns. When rulers meet, their embraces
    Are of presence. Absent cries make empty phrases.

    The pile is high on that red carpet trail
    That muffs the steps to your Inaugural Grail,

    Skulls like cobbles, bones like harmatten twigs
    The squeals of humans dying the death of pigs.

    You missed the hisses too; a fanfare covers all.
    The whine of violins at the State House Ball

    Bears down the whining discords of misrule
    You’ve proved a grade A pupil from survivors’ school.

    Your worthy predecessors raise a toast
    From exhiled havens , or from the eternal roast

    Swinging Bokassa, Macias Nguema, Idi Amin Dada
    You sucked the their teats, you supped from their cannibal larder,

    And belched in unison. The pinnacle attained,
    Next goal is duration. Shall we see you ordained

    In the Guiness Book of Records, the Master stayer?
    Youth is your ally, and appetite of Master slayer.

    Till the peole’s fiesta: a blood-red streamer
    In Monrovian skies, a lampost and- the swinging Redeemer.

    -Wole Soyinka (Nigeria).

  13. David H 13

    To all you Isky users out there have you seen this??

    https://skytv.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1466/related/1
    And this

    https://skytv.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1473/related/1/session/L2F2LzEvdGltZS8xMzcxMjY1MzQ1L3NpZC82em1ocU1zbA%3D%3D

    No more unmetered access to streaming whatever from Sky, and it will end, at the end, of this month.

    And I have seem no news on it at all so is going to be a nasty shock to a lot of people.

  14. Rogue Trooper 14

    Hard Act To Follow.

    “Sola! Livy I exHume”,
    serio-comically fastgates
    a Harmony of The Gospels
    to a Bashful Bright-Eyes
    coyote with far-away eyes
    Staid ’round the perimeter
    Wantonly set aloft
    Combinations understudied pointedly
    for Drole verbal effect.
    Akitio
    C3
    (some are fated to live post-humourously).
    niche
    Nichrome
    nick
    nickel
    and
    so
    on
    down
    the
    page
    to nicol
    and nicotian.

    for polly and ianmac.

  15. Colonial Viper 15

    Why spy on your own citizens anyways?

    Seems that the answer lies in the US wanting to be able to suppress domestic civil unrest in the event of an economic, social or environmental shock

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/earth-insight/2013/jun/14/climate-change-energy-shocks-nsa-prism

    “DoD might be forced by circumstances to put its broad resources at the disposal of civil authorities to contain and reverse violent threats to domestic tranquility. Under the most extreme circumstances, this might include use of military force against hostile groups inside the United States. Further, DoD would be, by necessity, an essential enabling hub for the continuity of political authority in a multi-state or nationwide civil conflict or disturbance.”

    • Rogue Trooper 15.1

      ahhh, the link, in particular, between catastrophic climate change and repressive totalitarian government.

      • Colonial Viper 15.1.1

        The people in charge want to stay in charge – no matter which side of the peak oil/climate change/debt deflation discussion is proven right in the future.

        • Rogue Trooper 15.1.1.1

          from Genesis to Revelation: “Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness”
          Jesus Christ and The prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.
          Read the comments? “The most important article this year”. Excellent page-turning my friend; things are really going to speed up now,oil shortages possible by 2015! the Snowden revelations just the beginning. Some of the comments assert that the States will not be able to maintain order for long. Are you going to frisbee the article all over the show, being well-connected and all that. I am only a writer 😉 yet I know I’m under soft surveillance.

          • Colonial Viper 15.1.1.1.1

            My friend, it is always a pleasure. Many people from all walks of life are glancing askance at the cognitive dissonance they are experiencing. A five year recession with barely a hint of a rebound? Growth is coming tomorrow (reminds me about the joke at the pub – free beer tomorrow). Bailouts and the needles of austerity sucking over and over, yet banking and sovereign debt crises continue to cascade? History returning to Europe – even in the “advanced” “civilised” nations of Western Europe. Spain, Greece, Italy, Sweden.

            For now not much is said out loud amongst “polite company” (remarking that our civilisation is probably all the way up shit creek without a paddle usually kills the dinner party conversation), but trust me more than a few “ordinary Kiwis” (and I do mean “ordinary”) are paying at least some attention. As usual our political parties are intent on being followers not leaders.

            The US will be a powerful and influential nation for many many years to come, and I am not under any illusion: the nation remains a source of innovation, courage and inspiration for the world: not because of the example of it’s recent authorities and leaders, but due to the example set by some of its finest citizens. Young Americans who not only know right from wrong, but are willing to put their lives on the line for their peers and for people they have never met, even when they know that many of them will never thank them but think them cowardly disloyal enemies of their home country.

            A few men by the name of Washington, Jefferson and Adams…they too were branded as gutless traitors.

            NB there is also a path of independent states that the USA can follow in the future. The deep south may decide that it prefers to go it’s own way as might the liberal coastal areas. And Texas will be quite relieved to be Texas by itself, once again, a condition that it lost only in 1845.

            The answers to the near future of the human race lie not in ever increasing technology and complexity, fun filled as that is, but in returning from the limits of globalisation and mass consumption to the resilience of localisation, of human understanding kinship and meaning.

            And as you point out, much of the knowledge is already there in old but not-quite-forgotten traditions and stories, ones which rest almost unseen, patiently and unobtrusively. Like a gold coin forgotten in an old coat pocket, always ready to be found as a pleasant surprise, no notice necessary.

            • Rogue Trooper 15.1.1.1.1.1

              ahhh, according to Legend WN the Son goes out several $T. I’ll take the proverbial slow road (they can take the high).

          • Colonial Viper 15.1.1.1.2

            BTW Rogue – have you read the latest Archdruid report on the shape of civilisations?

            http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.co.nz/2013/06/a-question-of-values.html

  16. xtasy 16

    It must be the liberalism exceeding ACT Party narrow mindedness that drives the Standard to allow them to advertise here, but hey, we are open and tolerant, are they though, and is Banks the same?

    For a better atmosphere and tune turn to this, life is so sad and depressing we all need a cheerful break I suppose, enjoy:

  17. xtasy 17

    Excellent music from Chile, traditional that is, Inti Illimani, enjoy:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfN4egCYuHo

    That is the merging of indio music with western, Spanish music, as I am sure the South Americans had no guitars and the likes before.

  18. xtasy 18

    Viva and shove it Nazis!!!

  19. xtasy 19

    Viva, Nathalie and others –

    Think and enjoy, more culture than down under.

    • Populuxe1 19.1

      “Think and enjoy, more culture than down under.”
      In which case feel free to fuck off any time you like.

      • Colonial Viper 19.1.1

        You are indeed gracious for emphasising the point precisely.

        • Populuxe1 19.1.1.1

          I, Colin McCahon, Witi Ihimaera, Janet Frame, and any number of NZ cultural practicioners past, present and future thank you for your support and enthusiasm, CV – you can fuck off too

      • xtasy 19.1.2

        Yes, I was absolutely right, Populuxe1, when I wrote “more culture than down under”, wasn’t I?

        There came you, “down under” my last post or comment above, and you displayed a lack of culture by throwing a slightly abusive comment back at me. I may have foreseen it, hey.

        But I may forgive you. We do all turn “mad” at times, whatever that word means, so welcome to the rest of the “mad club” – with fluctuating membership.

        By the way, I f*** off-shore every night, via the internet that is.

  20. thank you for this analysis.

    R.

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