TSmithfield asked how was peace possible when Russia does things like this ?
I responded by saying we have apparently come to an easy accomodation with allies who do things far more egregious than this:examples given, and somehow a peace was found.
Result? very predictable cries about "whataboutism" Frankly guys, that is worn out and lacking any kind of credible argument
Once again you will shriek Russian propaganda!! when I post this next link
Even if it is true that the Ukrainians shot down a Russian missile (how dreadful of them), how does that change anything?
After all, the Russians were targeting the Ukrainian power grid in this attack, amongst other things. That sort of action in the freezing conditions now prevailing in Ukraine could even have a worse effect in terms of human suffering.
The Russians are very aware of the suffering they are likely to cause one way or another with this sort of behaviour targeting civilian infrastructure. So, in no way does anything you say justify the Russian action.
The fact that you cite RT just confirms our suspicions about you.
Yes Jenny , its hugely profitable, I've made 3000 roubles a month at least, and have a time share in fabulous dachas in Crimea.There's never any difficulty getting the money sent over either, it comes packed in those Russian dolls
Oh the stories I could tell you !Dancing with Putin at my wedding, the fun!,the singing! the barbecues at the Kremlin, the chess games with Lavrov !
And no one has ever found me out (but there are those who've had their dark suspicions!)
Whether or not you work for a Russian troll farm, or not is irrelevant really. The way you slurp up to the Russian war machine, the effect is the same.
Well let's face it. Your continued appeasement for Russian atrocities does sound very much like the mantra of a useful idiot (and I use those words carefully as I was well aquainted with one in the 1960's who pestered my father relentlessly with Soviet propaganda). I know how they operated and what their belief systems were. They were totally down the rabbit hole of Soviet lies and misinformation regularly sent to them from the Russian consulate as it was then.
My father was the President of a Union for over 20 years so they were particularly keen to get him on their side and ferment trouble. They didn't like the fact that he ignored them, and instead the Union was able to gain very good pay rates and working conditions for the members of his union without the need for constant strikes and stop works. On one occasion a National Party MP was heard to say in the House how appalled he was that these workers were earning almost as much as he!
If only those pesky Ukrainians would see just how benign and helpful these continued bombardments form Russia are, and stop trying to shoot them down. Everything would be much so much better.
It says a lot about you that you can brush off the horror of this situation with some sort of wierd whataboutism justification of it.
But, putting that aside, why would the people of Ukraine be the slightest bit interested in doing any sort of peace deal with Russia when Russia behaves like this? Especially since the horror of this situation will likely just motivate the west to supply more and heavier weapons to Ukraine, thus increasing the likelihood of a Ukrainian victory.
If you really want to see a peaceful resolution to this conflict then you should be condemning this sort of behaviour not excusing it.
Likewise, the siege of Constantinople in 1451 was a particularly brutal affair.
And what about those nasty Romans sowing salt on the ruins of Carthage in 145BCE – there are plenty of examples which can be used to excuse present day barbarity.
Peace is possible .,it has to be .Vietnam has apparently forgiven the genocidal assaults of the Vietnam war, or as they call it , the Resistance war against America
In the face of our own barbarity, it seems we forgive and forget very easily
Where is the consistency?
Why aren’t we arming the Palestinians and applying sanctions to Israel, not that I would recommend that
War is disgusting, and should be avoided at all costs, peace agreements implemented, but there are precious few anti war activists left anywhere in the west , not when so many livelihoods are dependent on war and other people get to do the bloodshedding
What I don't condemn is people wanting to defend their country, homes, and families against unwarranted agression from larger nations. So, in this case, I condemn war by condemning Russia.
But, I guess you will just say the Russians are acting in "self defence" or that the US did it therefore Russia can do it, or something equally inane.
Further to that, "condemning war" in the way that you would have it in this conflict would mean allowing the Russian army to roll in with its tanks uncontested and Ukraine capitulating in order to avoid war.
I've already said it .The war could have been prevented .The Minsk peace agreements signed between the LPR, DPR, and Ukraine was a path to peace, but as Poroshenko boasted, there was never any intention of implementing it , and the plan was to take Donbas by force
Then you have no understanding of why there is such tension between the eastern provinces (formerly Russian territory which Ukraine expanded into under Lenin in the 20's)mainly orthodox and culturally Russian , and the western parts, where you are more likely to encounter monuments to Nazi collaborators like Bandera , and more likely to belong to the Ukrainian Greek Catholic church
and the western parts, where you are more likely to encounter monuments to Nazi collaborators like Bandera , and more likely to belong to the Ukrainian Greek Catholic church
Your modus operandi is to go around and round in circles repeating the same nonsense that has already been debunked many times.
It has already been pointed out on numerous occasions that the far right only got around 2% of the vote in the last Ukrainian election. So, it obviously isn't much more of a problem than most countries.
If you are really that vexed about Nazis, then you should be really worried about Nazis in Russia. Especially as it appears Putin has been trying to manipulate them for his own ends, as the article points out.
From the link:
“What has received less coverage is the Putin regime’s own record of collaboration with far-right extremists.”
So, it looks more like a continuation of Russian agression following the annexation of Crimea than anything else.
Does the name Igor Girkin mean anything to you. Pity about that Malaysian passenger plane that was shot down. But I guess you would blame the Ukrainians for that as well.
Yes, Igor Girkin aka Strelkov, a nationalist and a nutter, banned from eastern Ukraine by Putin,and ever since a strident critic of Putin , because he thinks Putin is a softie and appeaser of the west.
He has only become critical of Putin over recent times. And was actually quite popular prior to the downing of the Malaysian plane which was terminal for his career.
From the previous link:
While leading a group of separatist militants into Ukraine in the 2014 Siege of Sloviansk, Girkin gained influence and attention, being appointed to the position of Minister of Defense in the Donetsk People's Republic, a puppet state of Russia.[4][5][6]
groan the Dresden and Tokyo attacks were 80 years ago now, Korea three quarters of a century ago and Rolling Thunder for all it's tonnage of bombs dropped was not an area bombing offensive. This sort of tedious whatabboutism is mired in a miserable ignorance of the last eighty years.
The thing is, targets like Dresden and Tokyo (and Hamburg) were attacked using incendiaries for the simple reason the attackers couldn't hit the particular but they could hit the general. In other words, the Allied night bombers could find, hit and set fire to a city easily but they couldn't hit a specific target within the city at all. The US bombing of Vietnam COULD hit specific targets, which is why the Vietnamese didn't bother to claim the Americans were engaging in indiscriminate terror attacks on civilians.
Western military thought no longer embraces area bombing because it doesn't work. It is wasteful of resources and it doesn't achieve it's supposed primary goal – the destruction of the enemies means and will to fight. A primary military consideration is are the means conmensurate with the ways and the ends? The UK devoted between 35-40% of it's total wartime output in WW2 to the construction of lavishly equipped heavy bombers, yet this force was frightfully vulnerable German nightfighters right to the end of the war and the heavy losses in bomber crews were inflicted on the best and brightest young men of the era. So, area bombing cost the UK more than it did Germany. Now that isn't to say such bombing doesn't achieve secondary objectives. The use of area bombing forces the enemy to disperse their industry, which is disruptive. It forces the diversion of resources into air defenses (in WW2 the Germans deployed thousands of large AA guns, fighters etc etc and air defense consumed almost all the output of Germany's electronics industry). Finally, the way the ends were achieved have ultimately become an issue. While area bombing has some justification, it is morally questionable, to say the least. Bombing civilians because otherwise you'd have all this expensive stuff sitting around doing not much is as bad morally and it is bad militarily.
Ultimately, the big lesson of WW2 was what WORKED was using strategic bombing to achieve a specific strategic aim. Thus, the "transport plan", or the attacks on the German canal system, or were the Americans would send 1000 USAAF heavy bombers (escorted by 1000 Mustang and Thunderbolt fighters) to carry out precision daylight bombing of vital targets as "bait" to force the Germans to send up their fighters, were they were engaged in a huge battle of attrition that the United States was always going to win handily via the application of Lanchester's equation. That is why now the west relies on precision guided weapons. Why would you bomb an entire city with 1000 bombers when all you want to do is destroy a tank factory?
The thread of logic that links Russia's missile attacks on the Ukraine with area bombing is the Russians are now no longer particularly interested in hitting the target they are aiming their wildly inaccurate Kh-22 and S300 missiles at. Just like destroying anything of military significance was a bonus of area bombing rather than the aim, so Russia regards actually hitting something they aim at and causing a militarily significant outcome as a bonus. The aim is an airborne expression of splenetic state terrorism at the temerity of the Ukrainians to resist and a brutal and cruel desire to inflict suffering on the Ukrainian civilian population.
The thing is, Western powers learnt from area bombing. It didn't work, it was wasteful, it was morally wrong in retrospect. They don't do it anymore. Russia, it seems, is not interested in these insights. They've learnt nothing and forgotten nothing from the human catastrophes of the mid 20th century.
The Western powers learnt not to area bomb? Or do you mean aerial?
You seem a bit lacking in some key understandings when it comes to being informed on what you are pontificating on about.
Any degree of comprehensive general knowledge should be familiar with the term area bombing. Here is the entry in Wikipedia. Avail yourself of some new knowledge.
"If you think the US has any morality whatsoever in its foreign policy …"morally wrong in retrospect"… come on , there's not really a discussion here…" Francesca
I don't think US foreign policy has any morality whatsoever. From the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli, and everything in between, the nature and the crimes of American imperialism are well documented.
Every imperialism is racist and genocidal, it is the very nature of imperialism.
Biden calls the Russian Federation imperialist. Putin calls the U.S imperialist. What they both have in common is that they both don't want it known that they are both imperialists.
All imperialists are racist, how else can they claim they have the right to invade and take over and run other people's countries unless they believe those people are inferior.
All imperialists are genocidal, how else can can an imperialist nation put down an insurgent people, who refuse to submit. As one US general once said in Vietnam 'We had to destroy the village to save it"
Genocide is destroying the village to save it writ large
If the Russian imperialists did take their cue from the American imperialists, the student has become the master.
What the horrors of Syria and Chechnya can tell us about Russia’s tactics in Ukraine
Russia is bringing the deadly tactics used in Chechnya and Syria to Ukraine’s cities.
Abdulkafi Alhamdo remembers the day he asked his wife to take their infant daughter out of Aleppo. “I told her to take my daughter through the [humanitarian] corridor just to stay alive,” Alhamdo said. “I thought this was the last time I would see them, the last time I would kiss my daughter. I remember my daughter was holding my knees and crying. Perhaps she knew something.”…..
…..the tactics on display in Ukraine are “a clear attempt by the Russian military to do exactly what they did in Syria, and certainly what they did in Grozny: a mass shelling campaign to instill fear, terror, destruction, chaos and to create conditions in which the civilian population flees en masse, then creating conditions in which eventually, even the largest urban territories will end up falling under their control.”………
The Grozny model
After 20 days of heavy artillery shelling of the city center — sometimes at a rate of 4,000 rounds an hour — the Russian military eventually took Grozny on Jan. 20, 2005.
The heavy bombardment of Grozny “worked” in one sense. The Russians took the city. But Mogulof and other observers believe it may have made the Chechens more resolved to fight back. “It’s mechanized terrorism,” ….
……The air assault killed tens of thousands of civilians and left Grozny in ruins. The United Nations called it “the most destroyed city on earth.” …..
Aleppo —“a kind of hell”
….In 2015, Russian forces began an intervention in Syria on Assad’s behalf, using air power to tip the balance in his favor. In Aleppo, the rebel-held territories were completely encircled in mid-2016, leaving 250,000 people under siege and subject to heavy Russian airstrikes. The Russian and Syrian militaries were both accused of war crimes, including deliberately targeting medical facilities, using indiscriminate weapons such as cluster munitions and attempting to starve the city’s population……
"The thing is, Western powers learnt from area bombing. It didn't work, it was wasteful, it was morally wrong in retrospect"
Indeed, have three of four volumes of "The Strategic Air Offensive against Germany 1939-1945" by Sir Charles Webster and Noble Frankland published 1961 which was biffed out of Whenuapai Station Library – RNZAF Command and Staff College Library Book with CANCELLED stamped inside which examines and discusses this very subject.
Vol I issued once in 1995 Vol II issued thrice in 1962; 1972 & 1992 No Vol III and Vol IV issued once in 1976.
One wonders why it is not still a standard text for study!
BTW written in pencil on flyleaf is: Total Price Set of 4 Vols 9 pounds and four shillings. Do hope they got their moneys worth out of them …..
Would love to find Vol III and only paid $12 for the three.
You really love giving me a dose of Dysentery don't you?
Why don't you read up on Russia's guarantees that it signed under the Lisbon Protocol & Budapest Memorandum when Ukraine gave up its Strategic Wpns at the end of the Cold War for Starters.
Then go back to the 1917 through 1925 when the USSR signed a similar Peace Treaty in 1920 or 22 from memory where Russia kept Eastern Ukraine along the Dnipro River. Which it violated in 1925 leading to Holodomor under Stalin.
Then read up what Stalin did to Ukraine after Russia booted the Germans out & it could've a lot more worse if Khrushchev quietly squash some of Stalin Orders.
The Ukrainian's do not & will not trust Russia for the next 1k yrs no matter what what Peace Treaty they sign because Russia can not be Bloody Trust to keep their Bloody Word & will not Negotiate in Good Faith!
Why do you think Finland & Sweden decided to give up their Long Standing Neutrality FFS!!!
Respect to you too Francesca really enjoyed your comments today answering one an all with quiet aplomb inspite of the hubbub very well done and exactly the kind of diplomacy lacking in the general debate imo .
Gotta say it reminds me of a memorable scene from ' One flew over the cuckoos nest ' though …hope you can guess which one !!
There will be no peace, the Russians think they are winning (or at the very least have to win). Well the leadership think they are.
You get the Russian goal is on the West of Ukraine so they will keep going till they have all their strategic points occupied.
Peace might be discussed when the Russians have lost 500,000 troops. Might, they seem hell bent on self genocide at the moment – through throwing away the last generation who could save them as a people. Those who survive this mess are going to be totally FUBAR.
I want this war over, but the idiots are in charge so I see it lasting till the last Russian is left going "can I go home now"
Mr. Sensible kindly gives us a master class in demolishing your own argument in the first two paragraphs of a rather ill thought out opinion piece…
"…The suggestion that the national capital should be shifted from Wellington to Hamilton, on the spurious grounds that the majority of our population lives north of Te Awamutu, is as ludicrous as it would be disastrous.
One of Wellington’s great advantages remains its centrality – as true today as it was in 1865. Indeed, Wellington’s only real competitor in that regard is Nelson…"
Centrality? Over three-quarters of New Zealand's population live in the North Island, with half living north of Lake Rotorua, and one-third of the total population living in the Auckland Region. On the basis of "centrality" surely the Tron is a fantastic idea? I guess he means GEOGRAPHIC centrality – in which case the US should move it's capital to Belle Fourche, South Dakota or the UK should move it's capital to Lancashire – or how about moving the Australian capital to somewhere in the middle of the Simpson desert?
Peter Dunne is a pompous old fool who spouts nonsense.
Irrespective of the pompous prats argument. I hope it carries some sway.
The last thing we need north of Rotorua is that lot. We've got enough idiots of our own up here. It's becoming increasingly harder to fly under the radar these days.
I've always thought that Wellington was a ridiculous place for parliament, it's when not if that place gets leveled by a whopper earthquke(very scientific terminology)
Christchurch would be my pick , Auckland throws its weight around enough with out letting the seat of power any near them
“The busy summer holiday period has highlighted just what an appalling state much of our roading network is in,” Transporting New Zealand chief executive Nick Leggett said.
“It’s not just about road maintenance. We also need the Government to recommit to new roading capacity to ease the strain on our existing network.”
In October 2018 Leggett was appointed the CEO of the Road Transport Forum,[24] a lobby group which promotes and the interests of the trucking road freight industry.[25]
Hi BG. Its an absolute no-brainer. Sadly the NO brainers : think Nat Simeon Brown etc… are getting the media attention. And of course the totally vested interest lobbyists as in Nick Leggett in my link.
IMO KiwiRail…are not really NZ Rail proponents..or even Rail friendly. I really feel Labour should get with re nationalising NZ Rail .And maybe some changes within at the same time (to get a real focus on Rail)
It's never been about protecting Russian speaking people, NATO, or about "'nazis".
It's always been about the eradication of the Ukrainian presence and identity to facilitate a genocidal land grab.
.
Over the next four days, the Kherson Regional Art Museum was cleaned out, witnesses said, with Russian forces “bustling about like insects,” porters wheeling out thousands of paintings, soldiers hastily wrapping them in sheets, art experts barking out orders and packing material flying everywhere.
“They were loading such masterpieces, which there are no more in the world, as if they were garbage,” said the museum’s longtime director, Alina Dotsenko, who recently returned from exile, recounting what employees and witnesses had told her.
When she came back to the museum in early November and grasped how much had been stolen, she said, “I almost lost my mind.”
Kherson. Mariupol. Melitopol. Kakhovsky. Museums of art, history and antiquities.
As Russia has ravaged Ukraine with deadly missile strikes and brutal atrocities on civilians, it has also looted the nation’s cultural institutions of some of the most important and intensely protected contributions of Ukraine and its forebears going back thousands of years.
International art experts say the plundering may be the single biggest collective art heist since the Nazis pillaged Europe in World War II.
Looting is as old as war. So the pearl clutching is a bit rich for someone who supports the war.
The reality is war produces animals out of all who fight them.
But as your a huge supporter of keeping this war going joe90, you have to face up to the reality of the ugly as well: Rape, Looting, Killing of prisoners, and Mass murder of civilians is going to keep happening as long as this war keeps going. Both sides are going to do it.
No one has a monopoly on doing evil shit in war.
We just have to wait until at least 1/2 a million Russian soldiers are dead, before we can get around to peace talks.
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Do you believe New Zealand runs its general elections fairly and competently? As a voter, can you be confident that the votes on your ballot will be counted towards the final result? As a political scientist, I’ve been asked these questions many times and always answered “yes”, with very few ...
Thus far May has followed on from a quiet April in the blogging department, but in fairness, it has been another case of doing what I am supposed to be doing, namely writing original fiction. Plus reading. So don’t worry – I have been productive. But in order to reassure ...
Buzz from the Beehive A new government agency will open for business on July 1 – the Social Investment Agency. As a new standalone central agency effective from 1 July, it will lead the development of social investment across Government, helping ministers understand who they need to invest in, what ...
Bryce Edwards writes – “Follow the money” is the classic directive to journalists trying to understand where power and influence lie in society. In terms of uncovering who influences various New Zealand political parties and governments, it therefore pays to look at who is funding them. The ...
Alwyn Poole writes – After being elected to Parliament in 2008 the maiden speech of Hipkins was substantially around education policy. He was Labour’s spokesperson for education 2011 – 2017. He was Minister for Education from 2017 until February 2023. This is approximately 88% of the time Labour ...
Eric Crampton writes – A fashion industry group is lobbying for protections. They make the usual arguments and a newer one. None of it makes sense. An industry group says it pumped $7.8 billion into the economy last year – that’s 1.9 percent of New Zealand’s GDP. ...
In December 2006, Fiji's military leader Voreqe Bainimarama overthrew the elected government in a coup. He ruled Fiji for the next 16 years, first as dictator, then as "elected" Prime Minister. But now, he's finally been sent to jail where he belongs. Sadly, this isn't for his real crime of ...
Don't like National's corrupt Muldoonist "fast-track" law? Aotearoa's environmental NGO's - Greenpeace, Forest & Bird, WWF, Coromandel Watchdog, Coal Action Network Aotearoa, Kiwis Against Seabed Mining, and others - have announced a joint march against it in Auckland in June: When: 13:00, 8 June, 2024 Where: Aotea Square, Auckland You ...
Seymour describes sushi as too woke for school meals. There are no fish sushi meals recommended by the School Lunches programme. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: The Government will swap out hot meals for packaged sandwiches to save $107 million on school lunches for poor kids. MSD has pulled ...
I don't mind stealin' bread from the mouths of decadenceBut I can't feed on the powerless when my cup's already overfilled, yeahBut it's on the table, the fire's cookin'And they're farmin' babies, while slaves are workin'The blood is on the table and the mouths are chokin'But I'm goin' hungry, yeahSome ...
The Ardern Government’s chickens came home to roost yesterday with the news that the country is short of natural gas. In 2018, Labour banned offshore petroleum exploration, and industry executives say that the attendant loss of confidence by the industry impacted overall investment in onshore gas fields. Energy Resources Minister ...
Hi,If you’ve been digging through the newly launched Webworm store (orders are being dispatched worldwide as I type!) you’ll have noticed the best model we had was Calvin.This is Calvin.Calvin.Calvin is 7, and is the son of my producer over on Flightless Bird, Rob — aka “Wobby Wob”. Rob also ...
This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Adam Levy. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). Climate change is everywhere. And when something's everywhere it can feel like it's nowhere. So how do we get our heads ...
Its a law like gravity: whenever a right-wing government is elected, they start attacking democracy. And now, after talking to their Republican and Tory and Fidesz chums at the International Democracy Union forum in Wellington, National is doing it here, announcing plans to remove election-day enrolment. Or, to put it ...
Yesterday Winston Peters focussed his attention on the important matter at hand. Tweeting. Like the former, and quite possibly next, orange POTUS, from whom he takes much of his political strategy, Winston is an avid X’er.His message didn’t resemble an historic address this time. In fact it was more reminiscent ...
Buzz from the Beehive A significant decline in natural gas production has given Resources Minister Shane Jones an opportunity to reiterate his enthusiasm for the mining and burning of coal. For good measure, he has praised an announcement from Genesis Energy that it will resume importing coal. He and Energy ...
“Follow the money” is the classic directive to journalists trying to understand where power and influence lie in society. In terms of uncovering who influences various New Zealand political parties and governments, it therefore pays to look at who is funding them. The political parties are legally obliged to make ...
Rob MacCullough writes – Here is my subjective ranking on a “most-left” to “most-right” scale of most of our major NZ Universities, with some anecdotal (and at times amusing) evidence to back up the claim.Extreme Left Auckland University of TechnologyEvidenceThe ...
Eric Crampton writes – I hadn’t thought about this one until a helpful email showed up in my inbox.It’s pretty obvious that income tax thresholds should automatically index with inflation – whether to anchor the thresholds in percentiles of the income distribution, or to anchor against a real ...
Jacqui Van Der Kaay writes – Parliament’s speaker had no option but to refer Green MP Julie Anne Genter to the Privileges Committee for her behaviour in the House last Wednesday evening. The incident, in which she crossed the floor to wave a book and yell at National ...
Gary Judd writes – The Dean of the law school at the Auckland University of Technology is someone called Khylee Quince. I have been sent her social media posting in which she has, over the LawNews headline “Senior King’s Counsel files complaint about compulsory tikanga Maori studies for ...
Cleo Paskal writes – WASHINGTON, D.C.: ‘Many of us have received phone calls from [the opposing camp] telling them if they join the camp they will be given projects for their wards and $300,000 [around US$35,000] each’, says former Malaita Premier Daniel Suidani. The elections in Solomon Islands aren’t ...
With hindsight, it was inevitable that (a) Hamas would agree to the ceasefire deal brokered by Egypt and Qatar and that ( b) Israel would then immediately launch attacks on Rafah, regardless. We might have hoped the concessions made by Hamas would cause Israel to desist from slaughtering thousands more ...
Today’s justification from the Minister for Children for scrapping protections for our tamariki was either a case of ignorance or deliberate deception. ...
The Green Party says the Government’s misguided policy on gangs will fail, following the announcement of the establishment of a national gang unit and district gang disruption units to target gang activities. ...
“With Police pay negotiations still unresolved after six months in Government, Mark Mitchell has today rolled the Commissioner out for a rebrand of their approach to gang crime,” Labour police spokesperson Ginny Andersen said. ...
The Government bringing back 50 charter schools will not increase achievement and is a distraction from the core mission of the education system, Labour education spokesperson Jan Tinetti said. ...
Te Pāti Māori is showing extreme concern over the Environment Select Committees adoption of a lucky dip draw to determine hearings for the Fast Track Approvals bill. Of the 27,000 submissions, 2,900 requested to present. All organisations will be heard; however, the remaining 2,350 submitters will be subject to a ...
Today New Zealand First will introduce a Member’s Bill that will protect women’s spaces. The ‘Fair Access to Bathrooms Bill’ will require, primarily in the interest and safety of women and girls, that all new non-domestic publicly accessible buildings provide separate, clearly demarcated, unisex and single sex bathrooms. This Bill ...
The Green Party is welcoming Climate Change Minister Simon Watts’ continuation of Hon. James Shaw’s cross-party work on climate adaptation, now in the form of a Finance and Expenditure Committee Inquiry. ...
The National Government plans to cut 390 jobs at ACC, including roles in the areas of prevention of sexual violence, road safety and workplace safety. ...
The Government has been caught in opposition to evidence once again as it looks to usher in tried, tested and failed work seminar obligations for job-seeking beneficiaries. ...
The Green Party is welcoming the announcement by the Minister Responsible for RMA Reform Chris Bishop to approve most of the Wellington City Council’s District Plan recommendations. ...
David Seymour has failed to get the sweeping cuts he wanted to the free and healthy school lunch programme, Labour education spokesperson Jan Tinetti said. ...
Hon Willie Jackson has been invited by the Oxford Union to debate the motion “This House Believes British Museums are not Very British’ on May 23rd. ...
Green Party MP Hūhana Lyndon says her Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill is an opportunity to right some past wrongs around the alienation of Māori land. ...
A senior, highly respected King’s Counsel with decades of experience in our law courts, Gary Judd KC, has filed a complaint about compulsory tikanga Māori studies for law students - highlighting the utter depths of absurdity this woke cultural madness has taken our society. The tikanga regulations will compel law ...
The Government needs to be clear with the people of the Nelson Marlborough region about the changes it is considering for the Nelson Hospital rebuild, Labour health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall said. ...
Ministers must front up about which projects it will push through under its Fast Track Approvals legislation, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
New Zealand Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and President Emmanuel Macron of France today announced a new non-governmental organisation, the Christchurch Call Foundation, to coordinate the Christchurch Call’s work to eliminate terrorist and violent extremist content online. This change gives effect to the outcomes of the November 2023 Call Leaders’ Summit, ...
Distinguished public servant and former diplomat Sir Maarten Wevers will lead the independent review into the disability support services administered by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. The review was announced by Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston a fortnight ago to examine what could be done to strengthen the ...
Today’s announcement by Police Commissioner Andrew Coster of a National Gang Unit and district Gang Disruption Units will help deliver on the coalition Government’s pledge to restore law and order and crack down on criminal gangs, Police Minister Mark Mitchell says. “The National Gang Unit and Gang Disruption Units will ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today expressed regret at North Korea’s aggressive rhetoric towards New Zealand and its international partners. “New Zealand proudly stands with the international community in upholding the rules-based order through its monitoring and surveillance deployments, which it has been regularly doing alongside partners since 2018,” Mr ...
Air Vice-Marshal Tony Davies MNZM is the new Chief of Defence Force, Defence Minister Judith Collins announced today. The Chief of Defence Force commands the Navy, Army and Air Force and is the principal military advisor to the Defence Minister and other Ministers with relevant portfolio responsibilities in the defence ...
Legislation to repeal section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act has been introduced to Parliament. The Bill’s introduction reaffirms the Coalition Government’s commitment to the safety of children in care, says Minister for Children, Karen Chhour. “While section 7AA was introduced with good intentions, it creates a conflict for Oranga ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins will this week travel to the UK and Italy to meet with her defence counterparts, and to attend Battles of Cassino commemorations. “I am humbled to be able to represent the New Zealand Government in Italy at the commemorations for the 80th anniversary of what was ...
The upcoming Budget will include funding for up to 50 charter schools to help lift declining educational performance, Associate Education Minister David Seymour announced today. $153 million in new funding will be provided over four years to establish and operate up to 15 new charter schools and convert 35 state ...
“The results of the public consultation on the terms of reference for the Royal Commission into COVID-19 Lessons has now been received, with results indicating over 13,000 submissions were made from members of the public,” Internal Affairs Minister Brooke van Velden says. “We heard feedback about the extended lockdowns in ...
Foreign Minister, Defence Minister, other Members of Parliament Acting Chief of Defence Force, Secretary of Defence Distinguished Guests Defence and Diplomatic Colleagues Ladies and Gentlemen, Good afternoon, tēna koutou, apinun tru It’s a pleasure to be back in Port Moresby today, and to speak here at the Kumul Leadership ...
Health, infrastructure, renewable energy, and stability are among the themes of the current visit to Papua New Guinea by a New Zealand political delegation, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “Papua New Guinea carries serious weight in the Pacific, and New Zealand deeply values our relationship with it,” Mr Peters ...
The coalition Government is launching Roads of Regional Significance to sit alongside Roads of National Significance as part of its plan to deliver priority roading projects across the country, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The Roads of National Significance (RoNS) built by the previous National Government are some of New Zealand’s ...
A high-level New Zealand political delegation in Honiara today congratulated the new Government of Solomon Islands, led by Jeremiah Manele, on taking office. “We are privileged to meet the new Prime Minister and members of his Cabinet during his government’s first ten days in office,” Deputy Prime Minister and ...
New Zealand voted in favour of a resolution broadening Palestine’s participation at the United Nations General Assembly overnight, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The resolution enhances the rights of Palestine to participate in the work of the UN General Assembly while stopping short of admitting Palestine as a full ...
Introduction Good morning. It’s a great privilege to be here at the 2024 Infrastructure Symposium. I was extremely happy when the Prime Minister asked me to be his Minister for Infrastructure. It is one of the great barriers holding the New Zealand economy back from achieving its potential. Building high ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins today announced the upcoming Budget will include new funding of $571 million for Defence Force pay and projects. “Our servicemen and women do New Zealand proud throughout the world and this funding will help ensure we retain their services and expertise as we navigate an increasingly ...
New Zealand’s ability to cope with climate change will be strengthened as part of the Government’s focus to build resilience as we rebuild the economy, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “An enduring and long-term approach is needed to provide New Zealanders and the economy with certainty as the climate ...
Jobseeker beneficiaries who have work obligations must now meet with MSD within two weeks of their benefit starting to determine their next step towards finding a job, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “A key part of the coalition Government’s plan to have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker ...
A new standalone Social Investment Agency will power-up the social investment approach, driving positive change for our most vulnerable New Zealanders, Social Investment Minister Nicola Willis says. “Despite the Government currently investing more than $70 billion every year into social services, we are not seeing the outcomes we want for ...
Check against delivery Good morning. It is a pleasure to be with you to outline the Coalition Government’s approach to our first Budget. Thank you Mark Skelly, President of the Hutt Valley Chamber of Commerce, together with your Board and team, for hosting me. I’d like to acknowledge His Worship ...
Your Excellency Ambassador Meredith, Members of the Diplomatic Corps and Ambassadors from European Union Member States, Ministerial colleagues, Members of Parliament, and other distinguished guests, Thank you everyone for joining us. Ladies and gentlemen - In diplomacy, we often speak of ‘close’ and ‘long-standing’ relations. ...
The Therapeutic Products Act (TPA) will be repealed this year so that a better regime can be put in place to provide New Zealanders safe and timely access to medicines, medical devices and health products, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello announced today. “The medicines and products we are talking about ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop, today released his decision on twenty recommendations referred to him by the Wellington City Council relating to its Intensification Planning Instrument, after the Council rejected those recommendations of the Independent Hearings Panel and made alternative recommendations. “Wellington notified its District Plan on ...
Rape Awareness Week (6-10 May) is an important opportunity to acknowledge the continued effort required by government and communities to ensure that all New Zealanders can live free from violence, say Ministers Karen Chhour and Louise Upston. “With 1 in 3 women and 1 in 8 men experiencing sexual violence ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government will be delivering a more efficient Healthy School Lunches Programme, saving taxpayers approximately $107 million a year compared to how Labour funded it, by embracing innovation and commercial expertise. “We are delivering on our commitment to treat taxpayers’ money ...
New research on the impacts of extreme weather on coastal marine habitats in Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s Bay will help fishery managers plan for and respond to any future events, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. A report released today on research by Niwa on behalf of Fisheries New Zealand ...
Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will lead a broad political delegation on a five-stop Pacific tour next week to strengthen New Zealand’s engagement with the region. The delegation will visit Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, and Tuvalu. “New Zealand has deep and ...
There has been a material decline in gas production according to figures released today by the Gas Industry Co. Figures released by the Gas Industry Company show that there was a 12.5 per cent reduction in gas production during 2023, and a 27.8 per cent reduction in gas production in the ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins tonight announced the recipients of the Minister of Defence Awards of Excellence for Industry, saying they all contribute to New Zealanders’ security and wellbeing. “Congratulations to this year’s recipients, whose innovative products and services play a critical role in the delivery of New Zealand’s defence capabilities, ...
Welcome to you all - it is a pleasure to be here this evening.I would like to start by thanking Greg Lowe, Chair of the New Zealand Defence Industry Advisory Council, for co-hosting this reception with me. This evening is about recognising businesses from across New Zealand and overseas who in ...
It is a pleasure to be speaking to you as the Minister for Digitising Government. I would like to thank Akolade for the invitation to address this Summit, and to acknowledge the great effort you are making to grow New Zealand’s digital future. Today, we stand at the cusp of ...
New Zealand is urging both Israel and Hamas to agree to an immediate ceasefire to avoid the further humanitarian catastrophe that military action in Rafah would unleash, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The immense suffering in Gaza cannot be allowed to worsen further. Both sides have a responsibility to ...
A new online data dashboard released today as part of the Government’s school attendance action plan makes more timely daily attendance data available to the public and parents, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. The interactive dashboard will be updated once a week to show a national average of how ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced Rosemary Banks will be New Zealand’s next Ambassador to the United States of America. “Our relationship with the United States is crucial for New Zealand in strategic, security and economic terms,” Mr Peters says. “New Zealand and the United States have a ...
The Government is considering creating a new tier of minerals permitting that will make it easier for hobby miners to prospect for gold. “New Zealand was built on gold, it’s in our DNA. Our gold deposits, particularly in regions such as Otago and the West Coast have always attracted fortune-hunters. ...
Minister for Trade Todd McClay today announced that New Zealand and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) will commence negotiations on a free trade agreement (FTA). Minister McClay met with his counterpart UAE Trade Minister Dr Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi in Dubai, where they announced the launch of negotiations on a ...
New Zealand Sign Language Week is an excellent opportunity for all Kiwis to give the language a go, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. This week (May 6 to 12) is New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL) Week. The theme is “an Aotearoa where anyone can sign anywhere” and aims to ...
Six tertiary students have been selected to work on NASA projects in the US through a New Zealand Space Scholarship, Space Minister Judith Collins announced today. “This is a fantastic opportunity for these talented students. They will undertake internships at NASA’s Ames Research Center or its Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), where ...
New Zealanders will be safer because of a $1.9 billion investment in more frontline Corrections officers, more support for offenders to turn away from crime, and more prison capacity, Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell says. “Our Government said we would crack down on crime. We promised to restore law and order, ...
The OECD’s latest report on New Zealand reinforces the importance of bringing Government spending under control, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The OECD conducts country surveys every two years to review its members’ economic policies. The 2024 New Zealand survey was presented in Wellington today by OECD Chief Economist Clare Lombardelli. ...
What happens when cash is king – and then your bank leaves. A businessman in a town that hasn’t had a bank for three years says the Reserve Bank’s plans to put more cash in the hands of its people and introduce digital cash could save hours of time. John ...
The people have spoken, in their hundreds. Birnam Wood by Eleanor Catton has been overwhelmingly voted the favourite New Zealand book of 2023 as nominated by ReadingRoom readers. The vote can informally be regarded as the People’s Choice award – ahead of tonight’s Ockham book awards, where Catton’s novel is competing ...
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Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Matt Garrow, Editorial Web Developer The government has handed down its budget for 2024–25. It’s delivered a $9.3 billion surplus for the financial year just about to finish but is forecasting a $28.3 billion deficit for next year. Here’s the key points: ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Jim Chalmers has produced a benign third budget aimed at soothing hard-pressed voters agitated about their high cost of living and punishing interest rates. At the same time he has walked a tightrope, trying ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Wes Mountain/The Conversation, CC BY-ND A $300 energy rebate for all households from July 1 and a 10% increase in Commonwealth Rent Assistance are key measures in a budget targeting cost-of-living relief that put ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra Treasurer Jim Chalmers promised an “inflation-fighting and future-making budget” and he has delivered by introducing measures aimed at directly bringing down inflation. Combined, his A$300-per-household energy rebate and ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Hawkins, Senior Lecturer, Canberra School of Politics, Economics and Society, University of Canberra Treasurer Jim Chalmers promised an “inflation-fighting and future-making budget” and he has delivered by introducing measures aimed at directly bringing down inflation. Combined, his A$300-per-household energy rebate and ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Bartos, Professor of Economics, University of Canberra Treasurer Jim Chalmers has been bitten by the giveaway bug. This budget contains not only the well-foreshadowed tax cuts for all taxpayers, but a range of new spending measures in health, education, infrastructure, aged ...
By Stephen Wright and Stefan Armbruster of BenarNews French authorities have imposed a curfew on New Caledonia’s capital Nouméa and banned public gatherings after supporters of the Pacific territory’s independence movement blocked roads, set fire to buildings and clashed with security forces. Tensions in New Caledonia have been inflamed by ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Greste, Professor of Journalism and Communications, Macquarie University Governments and their agencies wield awesome power. At times, it is quite literally the power over life and death. That is why in any functioning democracy, we have robust checks and balances designed ...
As the world commemorates the 71st Everest Day, it's not just a celebration of human achievement but also a reflection of the enduring bond between New Zealand and Nepal. This day marks the historic feat of Sir Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay Sherpa ...
Individuals in Wellington, led by City Councillor Nīkau Wi Neera, are working to use the ‘hecklers veto’ to shut down Inflection Point , a gender-critical event to be held at a Te Papa venue this weekend featuring speakers such as Bob McCoskrie ...
The transgender community, whānau & allies will rally outside Tākina/Wellington Convention Centre against anti-trans confederation “Inflection Point NZ,” who are hosting a conference to encourage parliamentarians to restrict trans people’s ...
A strategic asset for Auckland that has been fought over for years as either sacrosanct or a sacred cow looks certain to be sold and the proceeds of around $1.3 billion put in a new investment fund. A year after bitter political struggle ended in a compromise in which Auckland ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards – the Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)Political scientist, Dr Bryce Edwards. The number of voices raising concerns about the Government’s Fast-Track Approvals Bill is rapidly growing. This is especially apparent now that Parliament’s select committee is listening to submissions from the public to evaluate the ...
RNZ Pacific New Caledonians lined up in long queues outside shopping centres to buy supplies in the capital Nouméa today amid political unrest in the French territory Demonstrations, marches and clashes with security forces erupted yesterday and French High Commissioner Louis Le Franc told the public broadcaster he had called ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Samuel Chalmers, Senior Lecturer in Human Movement, University of South Australia The tragic death of Manly rugby league player Keith Titmuss in 2020 due to exertional heat stroke is a reminder of the life-threatening nature of the condition. Titmuss died after ...
Internet Governance Project founder Milton Mueller asked “is the Christchurch Call accomplishing anything?” Increasingly it seems the only thing it hopes to achieve is killing off free expression. ...
New Zealand Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has cancelled his visit to New Caledonia due to pro-independence unrest throughout the French Pacific territory. Peters and a delegation of other ministers was due to visit the capital Nouméa later this week. Nouméa’s La Tontouta International Airport is expected to remain closed ...
Audition by Pip Adam and Lioness by Emily Perkins are both shortlisted for the fiction award at the 2024 Ockham New Zealand Book Awards. Here the authors discuss awards, writing, Selling Sunset, review culture, Zoolander and more.Pip Adam: Whenever I think about writers and our ambitions, I can’t help ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Susan Broomhall, Director, Gender and Women’s History Research Centre, Australian Catholic University Andrea Mantegna, Minerva (Athena) expelling Vices from the Garden of Virtue, from the Studiolo of Isabella d’Este, Palazzo Ducale, Mantua (c. 1499–1502).Louvre Museum/Wikimedia Commons Wartime has often presented opportunities ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Olli Hellmann, Associate Professor of Political Science, University of Waikato Getty Images The stories Aotearoa New Zealand tells itself about the history of Te Tiriti o Waitangi/the Treaty of Waitangi have evolved considerably over time. For many decades, starting with the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Brett Carter, Associate Professor, RMIT University Aurora visible from Cope Cope, Victoria on May 11 2024.cafuego/Flickr, CC BY-SA On Saturday evening before Mother’s Day, Australians witnessed a rare celestial spectacle: a breathtaking display of aurora australis, also known as the southern ...
Tara Ward watches as TVNZ’s long-running current affairs show bows out with humility and grace.We have just 12 days left to view the final episode of Sunday on TVNZ+. In just over a week, there will be no more evidence of the award-winning current affairs show on the digital ...
To celebrate New Zealand Music Month, Sophie Ricketts wears a different band T-shirt every day. Here she picks her top 20. I love music. I love listening to it, I love seeing it live, and I love buying a T-shirt from the band or artist I’ve enjoyed. Every year, during ...
Research from AA Insurance reveals more and more people are taking pride in their garage. Meet three New Zealanders using their space in creative ways.If you think of a garage, you might picture a dark room with a parked car. There might be some tools on the wall, or ...
Government spending cuts have forced Scion, the dedicated Crown research institute charged with growing forestry exports, to propose shedding a significant number of scientists. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Yasir Arafat, Senior Research Associate, Edith Cowan University asharkyu, Shutterstock As electric vehicle (EV) demand accelerates, so does the need for lithium batteries. But these batteries contain valuable critical minerals, as well as toxic materials, so they should not be treated ...
NZDF personnel will support the New Zealand National Commemorative Service at the Cassino War Cemetery and a New Zealand Service of Remembrance at the Cassino Railway Station, next week. ...
As part of our series exploring how New Zealanders live and our relationship with money, a masseuse tells us how much she earns and where she spends it. Want to be part of The Cost of Being? Fill out the questionnaire here.Gender: Female Age: 33 Ethnicity: NZ EuropeanRole: ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Liam Byrne, Honorary Fellow, School of Historical and Philosophical Studies, The University of Melbourne For many reasons, the 2024 US presidential election will be like no other. Republican nominee Donald Trump’s campaign is unprecedented. Never before has a former president who ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Meru Sheel, Associate Professor and Epidemiologist, Infectious Diseases, Immunisation and Emergencies Group, Sydney School of Public Health, University of Sydney We know vaccines have been a miracle for public health. Now, new research led by the World Health Organization has found vaccines ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Chrissy Severinsen, Associate Professor in Public Health, Massey University Getty Images Becoming a mother is a significant identity shift, and many new mums struggle. Up to 18% of New Zealand mothers experience depression and anxiety after giving birth. The first ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Aaron Teo, Lecturer in Curriculum and Pedagogy, University of Southern Queensland ABC Much has been written and produced about white men’s fetishisation of Asian women (crudely nicknamed “yellow fever”). The ABC’s comedy series White Fever breaks new ground by exploring an ...
The children’s minister could have been legally brought before the tribunal after all, writes Stewart Sowman-Lund in this extract from The Bulletin. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. The end of ...
Seen comments on social media about eating bugs? Byron Clark explains the short history of our latest conspiracy. “No, Bill Gates nor Klaus Schwab has not funded the research done here,” reads an August 2023 Facebook post from Otago Locusts, the first farm in Aotearoa rearing insects for human consumption. ...
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How is peace with Russia possible when they do this sort of thing?
Dunno.
What are the precedents?
Dresden firebombing killing 25,000 people in WW2 ,perpetrated by joint US/UK airforce
Tokyo napalm firebombing killing 100,000 in single night , perpetrated by the USairforce in WW2
Napalm bombing in Vietnam
Ditto Korea, reducing the Koreans in the north to living underground
More recently Raqqa 1,600 civilians killed
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/coalition-strikes-killed-1600-civilians-raqqa-report/story?id=62629765
Mosul
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2017/04/bombed-in-their-homes-civilians-in-mosul-blame-reckless-coalition-forces/
How can we bear to consider these people our allies?
By practising selective morality aka calculating where our economic interests lie
What about your whataboutism?
This is a despicable attack by Russia and whatabouting doesn't make it any less so.
TSmithfield asked how was peace possible when Russia does things like this ?
I responded by saying we have apparently come to an easy accomodation with allies who do things far more egregious than this:examples given, and somehow a peace was found.
Result? very predictable cries about "whataboutism" Frankly guys, that is worn out and lacking any kind of credible argument
Once again you will shriek Russian propaganda!! when I post this next link
https://www.rt.com/russia/569890-ukraine-missile-fell-dnepr/
Even if it is true that the Ukrainians shot down a Russian missile (how dreadful of them), how does that change anything?
After all, the Russians were targeting the Ukrainian power grid in this attack, amongst other things. That sort of action in the freezing conditions now prevailing in Ukraine could even have a worse effect in terms of human suffering.
The Russians are very aware of the suffering they are likely to cause one way or another with this sort of behaviour targeting civilian infrastructure. So, in no way does anything you say justify the Russian action.
The fact that you cite RT just confirms our suspicions about you.
Oh Smithfield !
I did have a laugh at the idea of "our" suspicions
OK then. I will ask you directly
Are you employed by a troll factory?
Yes or No
Yes Jenny , its hugely profitable, I've made 3000 roubles a month at least, and have a time share in fabulous dachas in Crimea.There's never any difficulty getting the money sent over either, it comes packed in those Russian dolls
Oh the stories I could tell you !Dancing with Putin at my wedding, the fun!,the singing! the barbecues at the Kremlin, the chess games with Lavrov !
And no one has ever found me out (but there are those who've had their dark suspicions!)
Until now!
Clever Jenny!
Yes or No
"Many a true word is spoken in jest" James Joyce
Whether or not you work for a Russian troll farm, or not is irrelevant really. The way you slurp up to the Russian war machine, the effect is the same.
Well let's face it. Your continued appeasement for Russian atrocities does sound very much like the mantra of a useful idiot (and I use those words carefully as I was well aquainted with one in the 1960's who pestered my father relentlessly with Soviet propaganda). I know how they operated and what their belief systems were. They were totally down the rabbit hole of Soviet lies and misinformation regularly sent to them from the Russian consulate as it was then.
My father was the President of a Union for over 20 years so they were particularly keen to get him on their side and ferment trouble. They didn't like the fact that he ignored them, and instead the Union was able to gain very good pay rates and working conditions for the members of his union without the need for constant strikes and stop works. On one occasion a National Party MP was heard to say in the House how appalled he was that these workers were earning almost as much as he!
If only those pesky Ukrainians would see just how benign and helpful these continued bombardments form Russia are, and stop trying to shoot them down. Everything would be much so much better.
Like Russia murdering = moral, west murdering = immoral. Got it.
It says a lot about you that you can brush off the horror of this situation with some sort of wierd whataboutism justification of it.
But, putting that aside, why would the people of Ukraine be the slightest bit interested in doing any sort of peace deal with Russia when Russia behaves like this? Especially since the horror of this situation will likely just motivate the west to supply more and heavier weapons to Ukraine, thus increasing the likelihood of a Ukrainian victory.
If you really want to see a peaceful resolution to this conflict then you should be condemning this sort of behaviour not excusing it.
Quite right, Fransesca.
Likewise, the siege of Constantinople in 1451 was a particularly brutal affair.
And what about those nasty Romans sowing salt on the ruins of Carthage in 145BCE – there are plenty of examples which can be used to excuse present day barbarity.
But it still remains barbarity!
Once again , you miss the point
Peace is possible .,it has to be .Vietnam has apparently forgiven the genocidal assaults of the Vietnam war, or as they call it , the Resistance war against America
In the face of our own barbarity, it seems we forgive and forget very easily
Where is the consistency?
Why aren’t we arming the Palestinians and applying sanctions to Israel, not that I would recommend that
War is disgusting, and should be avoided at all costs, peace agreements implemented, but there are precious few anti war activists left anywhere in the west , not when so many livelihoods are dependent on war and other people get to do the bloodshedding
Anything is "possible''. But this sort of action by the Russians makes peace a much more difficult outcome to achieve.
So, as I said before, if you really want to see a peaceful resolution to this conflict, you should be condemning this sort of action.
Do you condemn it?
So, as I said before, I condemn war , because this is the sort of barbaric shit that happens in war .(see numerous examples I have given)
Do you condemn war?
Of course I condemn "war''.
What I don't condemn is people wanting to defend their country, homes, and families against unwarranted agression from larger nations. So, in this case, I condemn war by condemning Russia.
But, I guess you will just say the Russians are acting in "self defence" or that the US did it therefore Russia can do it, or something equally inane.
Further to that, "condemning war" in the way that you would have it in this conflict would mean allowing the Russian army to roll in with its tanks uncontested and Ukraine capitulating in order to avoid war.
Am I correct in that interpretation?
No , you're not
I've already said it .The war could have been prevented .The Minsk peace agreements signed between the LPR, DPR, and Ukraine was a path to peace, but as Poroshenko boasted, there was never any intention of implementing it , and the plan was to take Donbas by force
No negotiations , no compromise
Well then , you would approve the Donbas people of resisting attack by Western Ukraine , since 2014, only I've never heard that from you
"…Well then , you would approve the Donbas people of resisting attack by Western Ukraine , since 2014, only I've never heard that from you…"
A bizarre statement. Where is this "Western Ukraine" you speak? I can't find it on a map.
The Donbas is legally part of the Ukraine, like Crimea.
Then you have no understanding of why there is such tension between the eastern provinces (formerly Russian territory which Ukraine expanded into under Lenin in the 20's)mainly orthodox and culturally Russian , and the western parts, where you are more likely to encounter monuments to Nazi collaborators like Bandera , and more likely to belong to the Ukrainian Greek Catholic church
Here is a small primer for you
https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-divided-over-legacy-of-nazi-fighters/
Your modus operandi is to go around and round in circles repeating the same nonsense that has already been debunked many times.
It has already been pointed out on numerous occasions that the far right only got around 2% of the vote in the last Ukrainian election. So, it obviously isn't much more of a problem than most countries.
If you are really that vexed about Nazis, then you should be really worried about Nazis in Russia. Especially as it appears Putin has been trying to manipulate them for his own ends, as the article points out.
From the link:
“What has received less coverage is the Putin regime’s own record of collaboration with far-right extremists.”
It is not at all clear who was attacking who in that conflict, especially considering it wasn't only rebel Ukrainians involved. But also, large numbers of Russians, including Russian special forces.
So, it looks more like a continuation of Russian agression following the annexation of Crimea than anything else.
Does the name Igor Girkin mean anything to you. Pity about that Malaysian passenger plane that was shot down. But I guess you would blame the Ukrainians for that as well.
Yes, Igor Girkin aka Strelkov, a nationalist and a nutter, banned from eastern Ukraine by Putin,and ever since a strident critic of Putin , because he thinks Putin is a softie and appeaser of the west.
You're really drifting here
You obviously didn't read the link very well.
He has only become critical of Putin over recent times. And was actually quite popular prior to the downing of the Malaysian plane which was terminal for his career.
From the previous link:
"Peace is possible .,it has to be .Vietnam has apparently forgiven the genocidal assaults of the Vietnam war,…." Francesca.
Only when and after the US imperialists were driven out.
Did you forget that part?
groan the Dresden and Tokyo attacks were 80 years ago now, Korea three quarters of a century ago and Rolling Thunder for all it's tonnage of bombs dropped was not an area bombing offensive. This sort of tedious whatabboutism is mired in a miserable ignorance of the last eighty years.
The thing is, targets like Dresden and Tokyo (and Hamburg) were attacked using incendiaries for the simple reason the attackers couldn't hit the particular but they could hit the general. In other words, the Allied night bombers could find, hit and set fire to a city easily but they couldn't hit a specific target within the city at all. The US bombing of Vietnam COULD hit specific targets, which is why the Vietnamese didn't bother to claim the Americans were engaging in indiscriminate terror attacks on civilians.
Western military thought no longer embraces area bombing because it doesn't work. It is wasteful of resources and it doesn't achieve it's supposed primary goal – the destruction of the enemies means and will to fight. A primary military consideration is are the means conmensurate with the ways and the ends? The UK devoted between 35-40% of it's total wartime output in WW2 to the construction of lavishly equipped heavy bombers, yet this force was frightfully vulnerable German nightfighters right to the end of the war and the heavy losses in bomber crews were inflicted on the best and brightest young men of the era. So, area bombing cost the UK more than it did Germany. Now that isn't to say such bombing doesn't achieve secondary objectives. The use of area bombing forces the enemy to disperse their industry, which is disruptive. It forces the diversion of resources into air defenses (in WW2 the Germans deployed thousands of large AA guns, fighters etc etc and air defense consumed almost all the output of Germany's electronics industry). Finally, the way the ends were achieved have ultimately become an issue. While area bombing has some justification, it is morally questionable, to say the least. Bombing civilians because otherwise you'd have all this expensive stuff sitting around doing not much is as bad morally and it is bad militarily.
Ultimately, the big lesson of WW2 was what WORKED was using strategic bombing to achieve a specific strategic aim. Thus, the "transport plan", or the attacks on the German canal system, or were the Americans would send 1000 USAAF heavy bombers (escorted by 1000 Mustang and Thunderbolt fighters) to carry out precision daylight bombing of vital targets as "bait" to force the Germans to send up their fighters, were they were engaged in a huge battle of attrition that the United States was always going to win handily via the application of Lanchester's equation. That is why now the west relies on precision guided weapons. Why would you bomb an entire city with 1000 bombers when all you want to do is destroy a tank factory?
The thread of logic that links Russia's missile attacks on the Ukraine with area bombing is the Russians are now no longer particularly interested in hitting the target they are aiming their wildly inaccurate Kh-22 and S300 missiles at. Just like destroying anything of military significance was a bonus of area bombing rather than the aim, so Russia regards actually hitting something they aim at and causing a militarily significant outcome as a bonus. The aim is an airborne expression of splenetic state terrorism at the temerity of the Ukrainians to resist and a brutal and cruel desire to inflict suffering on the Ukrainian civilian population.
The thing is, Western powers learnt from area bombing. It didn't work, it was wasteful, it was morally wrong in retrospect. They don't do it anymore. Russia, it seems, is not interested in these insights. They've learnt nothing and forgotten nothing from the human catastrophes of the mid 20th century.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
The Western powers learnt not to area bomb?Or do you mean aerial?
What planet are you on ?
Iraq, Libya,Syria, Somalia,Afghanistan,Vietnam, Laos,Cambodia,Serbia.
And from the Progressive
https://progressive.org/latest/usa-bombs-drop-benjamin-davies-220112/
If you think the US has any morality whatsoever in its foreign policy …"morally wrong in retrospect"… come on , there's not really a discussion here
The Western powers learnt not to area bomb? Or do you mean aerial?
You seem a bit lacking in some key understandings when it comes to being informed on what you are pontificating on about.
Any degree of comprehensive general knowledge should be familiar with the term area bombing. Here is the entry in Wikipedia. Avail yourself of some new knowledge.
Thanks, I did know, I just couldn't believe you thought the US had given up bombing residential areas , urban areas
I repeat Mosul, Raqqa
"If you think the US has any morality whatsoever in its foreign policy …"morally wrong in retrospect"… come on , there's not really a discussion here…" Francesca
I don't think US foreign policy has any morality whatsoever. From the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli, and everything in between, the nature and the crimes of American imperialism are well documented.
Every imperialism is racist and genocidal, it is the very nature of imperialism.
Biden calls the Russian Federation imperialist. Putin calls the U.S imperialist. What they both have in common is that they both don't want it known that they are both imperialists.
All imperialists are racist, how else can they claim they have the right to invade and take over and run other people's countries unless they believe those people are inferior.
All imperialists are genocidal, how else can can an imperialist nation put down an insurgent people, who refuse to submit. As one US general once said in Vietnam 'We had to destroy the village to save it"
Genocide is destroying the village to save it writ large
If the Russian imperialists did take their cue from the American imperialists, the student has become the master.
"The thing is, Western powers learnt from area bombing. It didn't work, it was wasteful, it was morally wrong in retrospect"
Indeed, have three of four volumes of "The Strategic Air Offensive against Germany 1939-1945" by Sir Charles Webster and Noble Frankland published 1961 which was biffed out of Whenuapai Station Library – RNZAF Command and Staff College Library Book with CANCELLED stamped inside which examines and discusses this very subject.
Vol I issued once in 1995 Vol II issued thrice in 1962; 1972 & 1992 No Vol III and Vol IV issued once in 1976.
One wonders why it is not still a standard text for study!
BTW written in pencil on flyleaf is: Total Price Set of 4 Vols 9 pounds and four shillings. Do hope they got their moneys worth out of them …..
Would love to find Vol III and only paid $12 for the three.
FFS,
You really love giving me a dose of Dysentery don't you?
Why don't you read up on Russia's guarantees that it signed under the Lisbon Protocol & Budapest Memorandum when Ukraine gave up its Strategic Wpns at the end of the Cold War for Starters.
Then go back to the 1917 through 1925 when the USSR signed a similar Peace Treaty in 1920 or 22 from memory where Russia kept Eastern Ukraine along the Dnipro River. Which it violated in 1925 leading to Holodomor under Stalin.
Then read up what Stalin did to Ukraine after Russia booted the Germans out & it could've a lot more worse if Khrushchev quietly squash some of Stalin Orders.
The Ukrainian's do not & will not trust Russia for the next 1k yrs no matter what what Peace Treaty they sign because Russia can not be Bloody Trust to keep their Bloody Word & will not Negotiate in Good Faith!
Why do you think Finland & Sweden decided to give up their Long Standing Neutrality FFS!!!
Because they no longer Bloody Trust Russia FFS!!!
I think we'll let you have the last word Scud.Probably the only one amongst us who's been in the thick of it
Respect
To obtain some understanding – if this is what you aim for – read Bloodlands by Timothy Snyder – of what both Stalin and Hitler did to Ukraine.
The Ukrainians, for damn good reason, will never trust the Russians!
Respect to you too Francesca really enjoyed your comments today answering one an all with quiet aplomb inspite of the hubbub very well done and exactly the kind of diplomacy lacking in the general debate imo .
Gotta say it reminds me of a memorable scene from ' One flew over the cuckoos nest ' though …hope you can guess which one !!
regards
Cheers Weston !
I appreciate it
There will be no peace, the Russians think they are winning (or at the very least have to win). Well the leadership think they are.
You get the Russian goal is on the West of Ukraine so they will keep going till they have all their strategic points occupied.
Peace might be discussed when the Russians have lost 500,000 troops. Might, they seem hell bent on self genocide at the moment – through throwing away the last generation who could save them as a people. Those who survive this mess are going to be totally FUBAR.
I want this war over, but the idiots are in charge so I see it lasting till the last Russian is left going "can I go home now"
Mr. Sensible kindly gives us a master class in demolishing your own argument in the first two paragraphs of a rather ill thought out opinion piece…
"…The suggestion that the national capital should be shifted from Wellington to Hamilton, on the spurious grounds that the majority of our population lives north of Te Awamutu, is as ludicrous as it would be disastrous.
One of Wellington’s great advantages remains its centrality – as true today as it was in 1865. Indeed, Wellington’s only real competitor in that regard is Nelson…"
Centrality? Over three-quarters of New Zealand's population live in the North Island, with half living north of Lake Rotorua, and one-third of the total population living in the Auckland Region. On the basis of "centrality" surely the Tron is a fantastic idea? I guess he means GEOGRAPHIC centrality – in which case the US should move it's capital to Belle Fourche, South Dakota or the UK should move it's capital to Lancashire – or how about moving the Australian capital to somewhere in the middle of the Simpson desert?
Peter Dunne is a pompous old fool who spouts nonsense.
Irrespective of the pompous prats argument. I hope it carries some sway.
The last thing we need north of Rotorua is that lot. We've got enough idiots of our own up here. It's becoming increasingly harder to fly under the radar these days.
I've always thought that Wellington was a ridiculous place for parliament, it's when not if that place gets leveled by a whopper earthquke(very scientific terminology)
Christchurch would be my pick , Auckland throws its weight around enough with out letting the seat of power any near them
Would hazzard a guess that Christchurch – nay the entire South Island – would not want them and make that quite plain
No. Too conservative and lacking real diversity.
Hmmm. Nick …Leggett. Who he?
Aha….
So…apart from being a Nat…he also represents a major cause of the road damage problem. Egg.
Yep. Follow the dollars pretty much always demonstrates the validity of these guys statements.
It always amazes me how many "ceo's" of this or that lobby group there are in every sphere of our society.
Once again, follow the dollars. Cynicism is my new mantra.
Agreed Psyc.
I have posted a couple of times before on TS how trucks cause almost 1000 (one thousand) times the damage to roads compared with a family saloon.
Invest in rail is the obvious way out
Hi BG. Its an absolute no-brainer. Sadly the NO brainers : think Nat Simeon Brown etc… are getting the media attention. And of course the totally vested interest lobbyists as in Nick Leggett in my link.
IMO KiwiRail…are not really NZ Rail proponents..or even Rail friendly. I really feel Labour should get with re nationalising NZ Rail .And maybe some changes within at the same time (to get a real focus on Rail)
Youve probably seen these, but..
Also I have always kept this ..Rail…but also Coastal Shipping ! (FYI its a PDF..but very useful : )
He used to be the Labour mayor of Porirua. “Insert imprecation here.”
It's never been about protecting Russian speaking people, NATO, or about "'nazis".
It's always been about the eradication of the Ukrainian presence and identity to facilitate a genocidal land grab.
.
Over the next four days, the Kherson Regional Art Museum was cleaned out, witnesses said, with Russian forces “bustling about like insects,” porters wheeling out thousands of paintings, soldiers hastily wrapping them in sheets, art experts barking out orders and packing material flying everywhere.
“They were loading such masterpieces, which there are no more in the world, as if they were garbage,” said the museum’s longtime director, Alina Dotsenko, who recently returned from exile, recounting what employees and witnesses had told her.
When she came back to the museum in early November and grasped how much had been stolen, she said, “I almost lost my mind.”
Kherson. Mariupol. Melitopol. Kakhovsky. Museums of art, history and antiquities.
As Russia has ravaged Ukraine with deadly missile strikes and brutal atrocities on civilians, it has also looted the nation’s cultural institutions of some of the most important and intensely protected contributions of Ukraine and its forebears going back thousands of years.
International art experts say the plundering may be the single biggest collective art heist since the Nazis pillaged Europe in World War II.
https://archive.li/kriwg (nyt)
Looting is as old as war. So the pearl clutching is a bit rich for someone who supports the war.
The reality is war produces animals out of all who fight them.
But as your a huge supporter of keeping this war going joe90, you have to face up to the reality of the ugly as well: Rape, Looting, Killing of prisoners, and Mass murder of civilians is going to keep happening as long as this war keeps going. Both sides are going to do it.
No one has a monopoly on doing evil shit in war.
We just have to wait until at least 1/2 a million Russian soldiers are dead, before we can get around to peace talks.