Open Mike 16/04/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 16th, 2018 - 209 comments
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209 comments on “Open Mike 16/04/2018 ”

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  1. Tony Veitch (not etc) 1
    16 April 2018 at 6:30 am

    Boris Johnson talking with Andrew Marr on BBC television:

    ‘Johnson appeared to make it clear that there was very little point to the strikes beyond sending a “message”:

    “This is not going to turn the tide of the conflict in Syria. One can hope that it encourages the Russians to get Assad to the negotiating table in Geneva, to get a political process properly going, but that is, as it were, an extra.”

    ‘So Johnson effectively stated that a military intervention with massive possible ramifications was potentially pointless, outside of being a “message” that might serve as a deterrent.

    ‘So what was the point?

    ‘Marr also raised the question of whether the airstrikes had any significant effect on the Assad regime’s chemical weapon capabilities:

    “It’s also clear because we had to warn the Russians in advance of what we were doing, so we did not kill lots of Russians and start World War III, they will have told Assad, he has moved stuff out.”

    ‘Marr pressed Johnson further, echoing sentiments of journalist Rachel Shabi who appeared earlier on the show. He asked if Assad:

    “…can carry on killing people with barrel bombs and machine guns and bombs of all kinds as long as he doesn’t use chemical weapons?”

    ‘Johnson frankly responded:

    “I’m afraid that is the unhappy corollary of this, that if we say that we are limiting our action to chemical weapons… then, yes, of course it follows that the rest of the Syrian war must proceed as it were.”’

    https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2018/04/15/boris-johnson-just-made-a-shocking-admission-about-the-syria-airstrikes/

    BUT: Nikki Haley: “US troops not leaving Syria . . .”

    https://www.aol.com/article/news/2018/04/15/nikki-haley-us-troops-not-leaving-syria-until-goals-accomplished/23411641/

    Mission accomplished!

  2. cleangreen 2
    16 April 2018 at 7:17 am

    ‘So what was the point?

    Tony it was a show of pure aggression that at will the US President could show his unbridled power to anyone at will.

    He was out to show “America is great again” bullshit no matter what. I am appalled that he has dragged us all back to the dark ages where the mighty will rule. “new dawn of imperialism now will eventuate and China will be next.

    • reason 2.1
      16 April 2018 at 8:45 am

      ” it was a show of pure aggression that at will the US President could show his unbridled power to anyone at will.” …. to true, exceptional people …. exceptionally violent.

      “We never see the smoke and the fire, we never smell the blood, we never see the terror in the eyes of the children, whose nightmares will now feature screaming missiles from unseen terrorists, known only as Americans.” — Martin Kelly

      United States bombings of other countries:

      Korea and China 1950-53 (Korean War)
      Guatemala 1954
      Indonesia 1958
      Cuba 1959-1961
      Guatemala 1960
      Congo 1964
      Laos 1964-73
      Vietnam 1961-73
      Cambodia 1969-70
      Guatemala 1967-69
      Grenada 1983
      Lebanon 1983, 1984 (both Lebanese and Syrian targets)
      Libya 1986
      El Salvador 1980s
      Nicaragua 1980s
      Iran 1987
      Panama 1989
      Iraq 1991 (Persian Gulf War)
      Kuwait 1991
      Somalia 1993
      Bosnia 1994, 1995
      Sudan 1998
      Afghanistan 1998
      Yugoslavia 1999
      Yemen 2002
      Iraq 1991-2003 (US/UK on regular basis)
      Iraq 2003-2015
      Afghanistan 2001-2015
      Pakistan 2007-2015
      Somalia 2007-8, 2011
      Yemen 2009, 2011
      Libya 2011, 2015
      Syria 2014-2016 https://williamblum.org/chapters/rogue-state/united-states-bombings-of-other-countries

      • ianmac 2.1.1
        16 April 2018 at 9:29 am

        A chilling list Reason. Probably a driver might be that such actions generate wealth for the USA.
        I wonder how long the list would be for Russia?

        • Tony Veitch (not etc) 2.1.1.1
          16 April 2018 at 10:17 am

          Well, its not the same as bombing, but Wikipedia gives this list: Invasion of countries.

          Russia/Soviet Union: Hungary, 1956, Czechoslovakia 1968, Afghanistan 1979
          Georgia 2008, Ukraine, 2014. There may be others.

          USA: North Korea, 1950-53, Cuba, 1961, Dominican Republic 1965, Cambodia, 1970, North Vietnam, 1970, Laos 1971, Grenada, 1983, Panama, 1989, Iraq, 1991, Haiti, 1994, Afghanistan, 2001, Iraq, 2003. There may be others.

          • Ed 2.1.1.1.1
            16 April 2018 at 10:21 am

            And Syria list ?
            Israel 1948, 1967 and 1973.

            I don’t believe Iran have invaded anyone.

        • reason 2.1.1.2
          16 April 2018 at 10:48 am

          Thanks Ianmac /// but all credit to William Blum who I linked to.

          His site also has lists of countries whose governments have been overthrown by the usa ….

          I don’t think he has a list of where the usa has politically interfered in …. anywhere they have an embassy I presume ,,,,

          As released CIA documents show the usa sent a few planes to NZ in the past …. but not to bomb us …. they were moving cargo around the country to help the Nat government break the water-siders strike.

          Despite what must have been a lot of flights …. and a lot of people knowing about it …… I have not been able to find any NZ press coverage of it at the time.

          Which tends to suggest our press were right wing then ( like now ), and using their most common form of propaganda …. censorship.

          • patricia bremner 2.1.1.2.1
            16 April 2018 at 4:23 pm

            Nobody could help the wharfies or the miners, who went out in sympathy according to the agreement. Possibly there was marshall law, which included news blackouts regarding the strike.

      • Tricledrown 2.1.2
        16 April 2018 at 9:36 am

        Not to mention all the countries the CIA has helped fascist dictators to maintain powers.

        • cleangreen 2.1.2.1
          16 April 2018 at 4:10 pm

          100% trickedrown.

          [Forgot your comments were being “trapped” back-end. Apologies. Please don’t go imbuing any future comments with any levels of personal abuse. Thank you.] – Bill

  3. Sacha 3
    16 April 2018 at 7:30 am

    Northcote by-election candidates chosen by two parties over weekend – Simon Wilson: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12033142

    • Carolyn_Nth 3.1
      16 April 2018 at 10:59 am

      So transport is the issue, and the Nat candidate is concerned about the 20% of people who access the northern motorway from Onewa Rd – long queue of cars in the morning. Sounds like he wants the T3 lane available to all cars.

      The problem is that the northern motorway in the morning (til 11am or more) is clogged up with cars from about Albany to the CBD. So entering from Onewa Road hits that almost-gridlock.

      Part of that problem is too much centralisation of businesses in Auckland Central. With increasing amounts of residential greenfields housing development on the Hibiscus coast and up at Warkworth, there will be increasing amounts of commuters on the Northern motorway.

      This requires 2 measures IMO:

      decentralisation of workplaces to those outer regions of Auckland, and more people using mass transit. People need to get over their attachment to cars for commuting.

      • Sacha 3.1.1
        16 April 2018 at 11:10 am

        Yes, as you say 80% of people in Onewa Rd are already in the T3 lane, mostly in buses. Downgrading that lane even to T2 would make it slower for most people but there’s that lovely Nat selfishness for you. My car, my commute, me, me, me.

        The west of the Shore needs better public transit connections from places like Northcote and Glenfield to the main rapid corridor north and south (currently busway, future probably light rail).

        As for employment concentration, that’s just what tends to happen in cities all over the world as they move to higher value jobs.

        • Carolyn_Nth 3.1.1.1
          16 April 2018 at 11:17 am

          Agree with the need for better mass transit connections from places like Northcote and Glenfield to the main rapid transit corridor.

  5. swordfish 5
    16 April 2018 at 7:49 am

    Military Action against Syria
    (UK voters’ view)

    Oppose / Support / Neutral + DK

    (1) Com Res Poll
    36% / 29% / 35%
    (Fieldwork: 11-12 April)

    (2) BMG Research poll
    36 % / 28 % / 37%
    (Fieldwork: 10-13 April)

    (3) Survation Poll
    40% / 36% / 24%
    (Fieldwork April 14)

    https://twitter.com/swordfish7774/status/985605187908747264

    • Anne 5.1
      16 April 2018 at 8:26 am

      The only thing that surprises me is that the Oppose camp isn’t a little larger. Britain went through two world wars and they’re not going to forget the effects in a hurry.

      • swordfish 5.1.1
        16 April 2018 at 1:10 pm

        Divided along Party Support lines … but not to the degree that one would normally have assumed:

        Oppose / Support / Neutral + DK

        Com Res Poll
        Entire Sample: 36% / 29% / 35%

        Voting Intention
        SNP …. 53% / 27% / 20%
        UKIP … 44% / 34% / 22%
        Green . 43% / 18% / 39%
        Labour 40% / 27% / 33%
        LD ……. 36% / 30% / 34%
        Cons … 31% / 38% / 31%

        Biiiiig Neutral / Unsure

        • Jenny 5.1.1.1
          17 April 2018 at 3:39 am

          Interesting that the biggest Neutral/Unsure, 39%, came from the Green Party.

          In my opinion the most liberal and consistently Left of the Parties on this List.

          Shows they’re thinking.

    • James 5.2
      16 April 2018 at 8:27 am

      Sometimes governments need to make hard decisions that are not poll related.

      • mauī 5.2.1
        16 April 2018 at 8:33 am

        Like waging an illegal war based on a bit of unverified video?

        • Jenny 5.2.1.1
          17 April 2018 at 4:10 am

          mauī

          So how do mean “unverified video”?

          Not out of Ghouta?

          (Which is the most verified part of it. Note the White Helmet uniforms of the carers and rescuers).

          Out of Ghouta, but staged with crisis actors?

          (Bit hard to do convincingly with children in it. Especially as the video contains convincing images of suffering and dead children.)

          Out of Ghouta, and depicting genuine death and suffering, inflicted on by the rebels on civilians, to draw international condemnation of the Assad regime?

          (Since this attack was carried out in a rebel held territory, shortly before a regime assault to take it back into government hands)

          Which one of these scenarios do you subscribe to mauī?

      • reason 5.2.2
        16 April 2018 at 9:05 am

        Like the usa and britians Governments role in Yemen James ?

        “Saudi Arabia provides the largest market for British-manufactured warplanes and military equipment in the world – arms which may now be helping them to devastate Yemen’s civilian population all over again.”

        “Now, as the Saudi noose on Yemen tightens — leaving 7 million people facing starvation and another 1 million infected with cholera” https://theintercept.com/2017/11/20/60-minutes-yemen-war-us-involvement/

        James would have us believe ….the Governments involved in this war crime …. are decent / credible … and must be believed when they go after another target country. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/yemen-civil-war-british-weapons-poll-human-appeal-half-unaware-saudi-air-strikes-civilian-deaths-a7636271.html

      • Keepcalmcarryon 5.2.3
        16 April 2018 at 8:20 pm

        Says James, supporter of the previous Key government, the hollowest poll driven rich mans club we have yet seen in this country.
        I genuinely get a chuckle out of some of your bullshit spin lines James. I suspect you are too smart to believe them yourself.

    • veutoviper 5.3
      16 April 2018 at 8:49 am

      Those results are very interesting, including in terms of consistency over the three polls.

      Thanks for sharing, swordfish, and its good to see you here again, Its been a few months (but lets not go there …)

      Since you are here, a question. Someone on another (Dunedin) blog suggested that a political poll is due here in NZ this week (?) It seems to have been several months since the last one (CB first two weeks of Feb?) *

      Do you know when the next poll(s) are expected?

      * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_New_Zealand_general_election

      • swordfish 5.3.1
        16 April 2018 at 12:41 pm

        I suspect we may be seeing a new Colmar Brunton in the very near future (but don’t quote me on that)

        Christ knows what’s happened to Roy Morgan. They came in for a lot of flak last year … may have got their rotten feelings hurt. In the normal course of events you’d expect them to be on the verge of releasing their 4th Poll of the year … but instead … zero, zilch, not a bleedin’ sausage !

        • swordfish 5.3.1.1
          16 April 2018 at 12:54 pm

          Having said that, RM still appear to be polling NZ in 2018 on the (1) Consumer Confidence and (2) Most Important Issues measures.

        • veutoviper 5.3.1.2
          16 April 2018 at 12:55 pm

          Thanks. I thought the next one would probably be a CB. Won’t hold my breath.

          Agree re Roy Morgan but he was obviously of a right leaning. When I last looked the previous NZ Roy Morgan political poll results also seemed to have disappeared.

          Funny isn’t it, when we were getting polls constantly we raged against them; now none, and I am suffering withdrawal symptoms and wanting one.

          EDIT – Will go check RM site again as you are right, they are still doing Consumer Confidence and Most Important Issues. Cheers.

  7. James 7
    16 April 2018 at 8:31 am

    I know a lot on here hate rugby – so this won’t interest them.

    But seems the World Cup won’t be free to air apart from a few games.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/103126229/tvnz-and-spark-win-rugby-world-cup-rights

    • AB 7.1
      16 April 2018 at 8:43 am

      There’s a difference between “hating on” rugby and just getting irritated with the prominence it is given in our national life.

      • Grey Area 7.1.1
        16 April 2018 at 9:11 am

        +1. I don’t hate rugby. I just don’t care any more.

        • Ed 7.1.1.1
          16 April 2018 at 9:22 am

          Agreed.
          Used to love sport when it was run for us and players were connected to communities.
          Now, as the UK found out 25 years ago with football, it is a plaything for oligarchs and billionaires and TV empires.

    • Ad 7.2
      16 April 2018 at 8:49 am

      James, join your nearest RSA.
      Almost all of them have big screens operating throughout the World Cups.

      Our one in Titirangi had a projector taking out an entire wall, and they built three layers of wooden seating, so about 100 of us could all scream together.

      Now, with the beer so close and the toilets so close and the catering so close, and everyone around you an All Black fan, I’d say that experience was in most ways better than being live at the game.

      We saw as many games as we liked, including the final. live.

      • Carolyn_Nth 7.2.1
        16 April 2018 at 8:53 am

        I wouldn’t feel comfortable going to an RSA to watch rugby. Too many experiences of discomfort with masculinist culture at men’s rugby matches and RSAs (grew up with them).

        Would watch it if it”s free to air, otherwise, I’ll pass.

      • James 7.2.2
        16 April 2018 at 9:22 am

        With a lot of the AB games – we normally throw on a bbq and put it up on the big screen at home.

        As you say – sharing the experience with like minded people (as well has having clean close toilets) makes it a ton more enjoyable.

        Personally I’m really looking forward to the cup – this and the America’s cup are my two favourite sporting events.

        • Molly 7.2.2.1
          16 April 2018 at 12:51 pm

          “Personally I’m really looking forward to the cup – this and the America’s cup are my two favourite sporting events.”

          Not surprisingly, – many readers of this labour movement blog site would be aware of this fact. And also aware – and tolerant – of your need to declare it time and time again to an audience that is not visiting a rugby, or sailing blog, and then see you practise your “how was I supposed to know?” shtick, when someone suggests they are not the be-all, end-all of their personal lives.

          You then continue to lay on the false camaraderie, which talks about BBQ’s and friends – who obviously spend a lot of time cooking and entertaining themselves, because you are on TS – and delight in this particular “game” in which you are a “winner”.

          If this type of interaction were a commonwealth event, you’d be a gold medal winner. There. Satisfied yet?

          Now – set up a rugby and sailing blog, then go to work on your humanity and compassion. Heavy training to do there, I’m thinking.

          • james 7.2.2.1.1
            16 April 2018 at 12:57 pm

            You know its open mike right – people are allowed to talk about sport and other bits as well.

            It makes a well rounded person.

            As for your comments about BBQ’s and having people around – this may come as a shock – but a lot – and I mean a lot of kiwis do this. Its normal, happy, and far from false camaraderie.

            Its about spending time with family and friends and enjoying a meal and an event – something I thought lefties would be all for.

            It dosnt make me a “winner” – but people do show themselves up as “losers” when they take offence to it.

            • Molly 7.2.2.1.1.1
              16 April 2018 at 1:07 pm

              “It dosnt make me a “winner” – but people do show themselves up as “losers” when they take offence to it.”
              Damn. I knew I’d lose this game with you.

              (BTW. BBQ and entertain up a storm, it is your need to continually inform others about the practice that is telling.)

            • One Two 7.2.2.1.1.2
              16 April 2018 at 7:37 pm

              No, James…

              I would define a loser as…

              Self confessed 48 year old man who lives in Coatesville posts comments on a left leaning blog site, as an agitator…
              Makes up stories about ‘success’ of 20 something children who own businesses, and repeatedly karps on about the sporting and social events that his imagination dreams about…

              While continuing to agitate on a left leaning blog site…

              Are you a ‘loser’ James…that’s up to you…

              What I’ll say…again…is that you a fiction…a shit stirrer…and an outed liar…

              Raise the bar, if you’re a real human being…

    • Morrissey 7.3
      16 April 2018 at 9:21 am

      I know a lot on here hate rugby…

      What a stupid, faux-apologetic way to begin a post. Even if it were true—and it probably is not true—what’s the point of making such a ridiculous statement?

      • Ed 7.3.1
        16 April 2018 at 9:23 am

        James writes to bait us.
        It is best to ignore.

        • Morrissey 7.3.1.1
          16 April 2018 at 9:26 am

          Baiting is fine, to a point. Writing stupid and unprovable statements is not.

          • james 7.3.1.1.1
            16 April 2018 at 9:39 am

            Here is part of a post about the current position of progressives and rugby.

            I think that this is provable. https://thestandard.org.nz/is-it-time-for-progressives-to-love-rugby/

            “1981 marks the point where – for good reason at the time – the left ceded the idea of sport to National.

            We still begrudge it. We begrudge it even more than the flag debate.

            We hate it because it’s full of mean-old competition, winning and losing, and injuries.

            We hate it for its pervy sexism, male media dominance, and macho muscle over mind.

            We hate it for its self-glorification, commercialization, and wealth focus.

            We hate it for its patriotism, corruption, and taxpayer and ratepayer subsidies.

            We hate its regulated violence, alcohol dominance, and sheer meaninglessness.”

            • Gabby 7.3.1.1.1.1
              16 April 2018 at 10:42 am

              That was the Royal We jimbo, I’m sure.

            • AB 7.3.1.1.1.2
              16 April 2018 at 11:15 am

              “Here is part of a post about the current position of progressives and rugby.”
              Ah – nope. That is a post where Ad stretches his talent for lyrical prose – it doesn’t describe any ‘current position’ on anything.
              It is however a fair warning to the left that getting irritated with the dominance of sport in our society is not necessarily an electoral winner.

        • james 7.3.1.2
          16 April 2018 at 9:32 am

          Sorry Ed – I dont even thing of you when I make a comment.

        • Grey Area 7.3.1.3
          16 April 2018 at 10:46 am

          Agreed Ed.

        • cleangreen 7.3.1.4
          16 April 2018 at 3:35 pm

          yes it is Ed stay away. I will always now.

      • reason 7.3.2
        16 April 2018 at 9:37 am

        People like James who go into bat and defend rugby union sex abuse cover-ups … but jump all over others …. for political reasons … do more to harm rugbys image than most.

        The All Blacks Adopting tax evasion and corruption / cheating as their mascot ( john Key ), was at the minimum divisive …. others would call it foul play.

        • james 7.3.2.1
          16 April 2018 at 9:41 am

          “defend rugby union sex abuse cover-ups ”

          Citation for your claim?

          If anyone is involved in sexual abuse – they should be held to account and named. Be they rugby players or at a Labour youth camp.

          Do you not agree?

          • reason 7.3.2.1.1
            16 April 2018 at 9:57 am

            here you go again ……. equating a proper cover-up by the Waikato Chiefs … with the far better actions ( but not perfect ), actions by the Labour party.

            Do I have to link to you and your creepy posts over the Waikato chiefs sexual assault cover-up again James ???

            The ones where you obsessed over a stripper being a ‘hair-dresser’…. even though she was hired as a stripper … you claimed it was dishonest to call her a stripper.

            You’ve also had a go at Oxfam ….. despite their handling of errant staff hiring prostitutes resulting in dismissals….. again a much better stronger reaction …. than the rugby players who you defended …. and the cover-up by the organization.

            Unlike you … and I’ve posted it before …If anyone is involved in sexual abuse – they should be held to account.

            When I posted it though .. I took the victims into account, when it came to naming …. ie I thought of them,

            • james 7.3.2.1.1.1
              16 April 2018 at 10:06 am

              “The ones where you obsessed over a stripper being a ‘hair-dresser’…. even though she was hired as a stripper … you claimed it was dishonest to call her a stripper.”

              Actually I think I said that someone charging money for a sexual service should be called a prostitute – not a stripper. There is a difference.

              EDIT – But leaving my original post there so not re-writing.

              What I said was:

              “Who gives a shit what they call themselves. She was a stripper. She was hired from strippers r us. She was found under the sedition Waikato strippers on the female strippers page.

              Go on admit it – even to someone who is in denial- she’s a stripper right ?”

              And why did I make the comment – because people were calling her a ‘dancer’ – hardly honest is it?

              “Oh, shes a “dancer” now is she?

              Now people are trying to change the narrative.

              She wasnt a dancer. She was a stripper, and she was fired for offering extras.

              To say she was a “dancer” is bullshit at best. She was hired from “Strppers R us” not from the Candy Lane dance troupe.

              edit – adding link for place of employment and reason being fired. http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/82900153/Chiefs-rugby-stripper-Scarlette-sacked-after-scandal“

              • adam …
                16 April 2018 at 10:57 am

                What a squirrel moment that was.

                She was a stripper, so she deserved it – argument from james, classy dude.

                It’s monday, so it’s going to be a long week folks – with our resident rwnj’s.

                • james …
                  16 April 2018 at 10:59 am

                  1 – I never said she deserved it.

                  2 – My point was clearly if she was hired as a stripper – call her a stripper not a dancer.

                  • adam …
                    16 April 2018 at 11:03 am

                    1. Not directly

                    2. Your inference was she deserved it becasue of her job. You spent more time on the job than anyone else. Making a big song and dance about her profession, rather than what happened to her.

              • reason …
                16 April 2018 at 11:02 am

                I’ll quote what you actually said James …. And No one had mentioned ‘dancer’ in the thread

                James … ” The tag stripper was always a media beat up. She took money to allow people to lick her ***hole. She’s a prostitute.

                She should be called as much in the papers.

                By not doing so just shows bias in the article.”

                As OAB wrote “There is more than a hint of violence in your attitude.” https://thestandard.org.nz/nz-home-of-rugby-raping-and-beer/

                • James …
                  16 April 2018 at 11:36 am

                  Question – what is the name of a person who accepts payment for sexual services ?

                  Dancer was mentioned in other parts – same logic holds.

                  • reason …
                    16 April 2018 at 11:56 am

                    No James …. you were just caught spinning porkies to Adam … as my quoting of your post showed.

                    James”What I said was:“Who gives a shit what they call themselves. She was a stripper. She was hired from strippers r us. She was found under the sedition Waikato strippers on the female strippers page.

                    Go on admit it – even to someone who is in denial- she’s a stripper right ?

                    And why did I make the comment – because people were calling her a ‘dancer’ – hardly honest is it?”

                    versus James ” ” The tag stripper was always a media beat up. She took money to allow people to lick her ***hole. She’s a prostitute.

                    She should be called as much in the papers.

                    By not doing so just shows bias in the article.”

                    ……………………………………………………………..

                    You didn’t even mention dancer …

                    Also, if the person hired as a stripper had another job as a hairdresser … you would have insisted on calling her a hairdresser ??

                    Your two faced and full of it James ….

                    • james …
                      16 April 2018 at 12:49 pm

                      “Also, if the person hired as a stripper had another job as a hairdresser … you would have insisted on calling her a hairdresser ??”

                      yes I would have if it the story was was about cutting hair.

                  • Molly …
                    16 April 2018 at 12:43 pm

                    Question – was she also not “a human deserving of respect”?

                    Same – admittedly pointless – logic holds.

            • Pete 7.3.2.1.1.2
              16 April 2018 at 11:06 am

              Please explain the “proper cover-up by the Waikato Chiefs.” You’ve said it on here again.

              Please describe what happened at the function involving the Waikato Chiefs (which there is video of.)

              Like everyone you should hate sexual abuse. You obviously have the right to hate rugby and its place in our society too. It might be convenient to put the two things together but is that done by representing or misrepresenting events? If that is so, is it through lack of knowledge or something else?

              You previously have dismissed any inquiry into events involving the Chiefs. You trust only your views. It is reasonable to be fervent but it is also reasonable to be informed. I would have though that being reasonable was a most reasonable thing.

              • reason …
                16 April 2018 at 11:32 am

                What video Pete ??? got a link ?

                “Spinning this into “so obviously nothing happened” only shows that you have a deliberate agenda of minimising violence against women.

                As for NZ Rugby wanting the truth? If they had, they would have spoken to BOTH women who made allegations against the Chiefs, and wouldn’t have had their pet in-house lawyer run the investigation.

                By any objective measure, this whole thing stinks, and only the people who desperately, desperately don’t want to confront the reality of violence against women cry otherwise.” – Stephanie Rodgers

                having played 1st 15 I do not ‘hate rugby’, so thats a lie / disinformation from you Pete ….I have rugby contacts who have told me that marque players / Abs were involved …….

                hat tip rhinocrates https://thespinoff.co.nz/sports/09-09-2016/some-awkward-questions-about-nz-rugbys-report-into-abuse-claims/

                “Here’s a weird quote from the NZ Rugby Players Association’s chief executive Rob Nichol:

                “This is a good group of young men… they’re embarrassed, they’re disappointed in themselves and now they’re looking to actually put their hand up, take that responsibility and move forward.”

                Which Chiefs player was Nichol talking about when he said they’ve “put their hand up”? Presumably they’re in the same place as the players Chiefs CEO lauded for having “really front-footed it. They’ve owned it”, ie nowhere.

                No players have come forward to talk about this. None has apologised. We don’t even know who was involved. Even when Steve Tew handed down a dreaded “black mark” as punishment for all this “poor judgement”, he handed it to all Chiefs players – including 16 who weren’t at the event.

                No-one has “put their hand up” here.

                Especially not the players.”

                • repateet …
                  16 April 2018 at 12:26 pm

                  Turning what I said was spinning it into “obviously nothing happened only shows that I have a deliberate agenda of minimising violence against women” shows you are not interested in the truth but simply your own agenda.
                  Your distortion carries on to players “putting their hand up.”

                  You didn’t need rugby contacts to tell you marque players / Abs were involved. It was in the papers that they were there. You obviously will use your imagination to determine how their presence and ‘putting their hand up’
                  related to what they did. What independent witnesses said is irrelevant to you. I prefer to listen to some independent observer who was there rather than some ‘rugby contacts.’ Because you personally haven’t seen video used in the inquiry you don’t believe it exists or if it does exist you won’t believe what’s on it unless it shows appalling behaviour of rugby players.

                  Your last paragraph suggests you think those rugby outfits, the Chiefs and Tew’s lot, are somehow beholden to you in some sort of personal way.

                  I accept you might not hate the game itself but there seems to be a lot of seething resentment about rugby and desire for some sort of public flogging for any players who may have done something awful.

                  • reason …
                    16 April 2018 at 12:48 pm

                    repateet ,,,, You do realise your “shows you are not interested in the truth but simply your own agenda.” is directed at Stephanie Rodgers who I quoted …… were you one of the reasons she stopped being an Author / posting here ?.

                    You also take issue with the spin-off who I also quoted ,,,,,

                    Perhaps you should stick to quoting people repateet ,,,, as you Saying I’m seething and desire floggings is actually quite pathetic.

                    Here’s some links of other people who you presumably think must be seething and calling for floggings….

                    “Rugby culture does not have to be a toxic dump of bigotry” .. “The wider problem is that the Chiefs in particular, and our rugby culture in general, has been (once again) exposed as a hotbed of sexism, homophobia, and small-minded bigotry.” https://bootstheory.nz/2016/08/04/rugby-culture-does-not-have-to-be-a-toxic-dump-of-bigotry/

                    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/310220/gallagher-spokeswoman-apologises-for-stripper-comments

                    Another submission in the report detailed a response to sexual misconduct complaints.

                    “One night a women was sexually assaulted in the toilets by a man who followed her in there. This behaviour, when we raised it, was written off as ‘boys being silly’. The management in that club are openly defensive of men and believe women act like sluts.” https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/sport/338954/rugby-s-drinking-culture-under-scrutiny-in-review

                    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/09/new-zealand-rugby-women-sex-abuse-investigation-erotic-dancer-chiefs

                    “Chiefs investigation a case of rugby bosses ‘protecting their own’ – Louise Nicholas ” https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/83994955/nz-rugby-to-announce-findings-to-chiefs-investigations

                    Theres lots more …. and I’ll link to them if we keep chatting repateet …. all rugby haters in your mind.

                    I also do not appreciate you calling me a liar over my rugby contacts info ….. its your imagination calling me a liar …

                    And are you Pete …. or repateet ?

                    • Pete …
                      16 April 2018 at 1:55 pm

                      Linking to the whole world won’t cover the fact that you don’t know what happened at the Chiefs situation yet you insinuate from what you surmise.

                      It is good saying I called you a liar. It’s all there for anyone to find and judge. A waste of time looking though, once again it is imagination at work. The name thing depends on which computer I get in on. Whatever, what is said is calm and rational with the only agenda being to let the truth rule and challenge lack of knowledge.

                    • reason …
                      16 April 2018 at 2:29 pm

                      Pete / repateet , you deliberately have two user names … Which seems to be In clear breach of this sites rules … ” Everyone must have a pseudonym and we don’t allow people to change them whenever they feel like it”

                      but your special right ?

                      Perhaps you should write to these people / organisations and tell them to butt out …. seeing as you know more than them.

                      “Race Relations commissioner Dame Susan Devoy, Sue Kedgley of UN Women, the National Council of Women, the Maori Women’s Welfare League, the Council of Trade Unions and dozens of other female leaders in New Zealand, including MPs and women’s rights advocates.”

                      And …The “Equal Employment Opportunities commissioner, Jackie Blue, said many women’s rights advocates had offered to work with the Chief’s rugby players – including herself – but none of their offers were accepted”.
                      …
                      …. Pet lawyers of the rugby union are so much better according to you.

                      “However it is not just New Zealand women calling for change within the rugby culture.

                      The former Samoan rugby international Eliota Fuimaono-Sapolu expressed his anger on Twitter.

                      fuimaono-sapolu (@Eliota_Sapolu)

                      You can still love rugby, love the chiefs, and not be a sexist pig.”

                      Go get them all … Pete / rapateet …. they are obviously all seething rugby haters … and liars … you’ve judged and can see it

      • james 7.3.3
        16 April 2018 at 9:37 am

        Gee Morrissey –

        What a rude, aggressive way to make a post – without thinking about it being true. You woke up grumpy this morning.

        Here are some points from a post that was made on here regarding the current position of ‘progressives and rugby’

        “1981 marks the point where – for good reason at the time – the left ceded the idea of sport to National.

        We still begrudge it. We begrudge it even more than the flag debate.

        We hate it because it’s full of mean-old competition, winning and losing, and injuries.

        We hate it for its pervy sexism, male media dominance, and macho muscle over mind.

        We hate it for its self-glorification, commercialization, and wealth focus.

        We hate it for its patriotism, corruption, and taxpayer and ratepayer subsidies.

        We hate its regulated violence, alcohol dominance, and sheer meaninglessness.”

        The post then goes on to what you COULD think (and moves to a positive light).

        I didnt see you arguing against the author or the post when the comments were made about how stupid s/he is.

        Have a read https://thestandard.org.nz/is-it-time-for-progressives-to-love-rugby/

        • Morrissey 7.3.3.1
          16 April 2018 at 9:43 am

          That poorly written piece you have cited was by one Advantage, whose views on football or anything else I would rate at about the same level as Ian Smith’s.

          In spite of his or her use of the royal “we”, he/she was not speaking for anyone but him/herself.

      • Ed 7.3.4
        16 April 2018 at 3:30 pm

        David Slack has written an excellent opinion piece.
        Here is an excerpt relevant to this discussion.

        “Who represents us, really? I’m told that anyone wearing a black singlet represents me, but I don’t feel it. Their success shows their athleticism, their guts, their magic, but this idea that they embody my country makes me uneasy.
        “They”, not “us” win the Rugby World Cup and the America’s Cup. “They” are the ones who have to live with being one point away from winning and still losing nine times in a row. I don’t need to belong.
        Anything that has the noise of a crowd saying hooray for us also has the thud of a drumbeat and marching boots.”

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/103093564/david-slack-the-duty-of-the-artist

    • Muttonbird 7.4
      16 April 2018 at 9:50 am

      Hate rubgy? Only when Key was sucking up to them and using it as a means by which to promote himself. That they couldn’t tell him to keep his distance was poor and NZR deserved the backlash.

      • james 7.4.1
        16 April 2018 at 10:03 am

        A few lefties complaining about it was hardly a backlash.

        • Muttonbird 7.4.1.1
          16 April 2018 at 10:48 am

          There was enough for the NZ rugby news to have to publicly apologise.

          The whole episode of Key using the All Blacks for political reasons was the beginning of the end. Ordinary people saw him for what he was – an opportunist who would do anything for self aggrandisement, even hijacking the national game.

          It further eroded public support for his other vanity project – tea towel flag.

          • james 7.4.1.1.1
            16 April 2018 at 10:54 am

            And yet Key went on and won the 2011 and 2014 elections increasing the number of seats for National each time.

            I would call that evidence that you are talking rubbish.

            Certainly better than your evidence that most kiwis fears have been sorted regarding the TPPA.

            • Muttonbird 7.4.1.1.1.1
              16 April 2018 at 11:09 am

              The rugby news cover was 2 months prior to the 2014 GE. Key quit about 2 years later after the failed tea towel flag debacle.

              2011 had nothing to do with it.

              Neither does the TPPA so I’m not quite sure why you bought that up. You must be struggling for argument.

              • James …
                16 April 2018 at 11:20 am

                Key was always keen on the rugby – you might remember that we had a World Cup down here in 2011 ?

                Quite a big event – surprised you missed it.

                • Muttonbird …
                  16 April 2018 at 11:24 am

                  The three way hand shake. An embarrassing incident on the world stage showing Key being an over eager clumsy child mucking up the official prize-giving. So desperate was he to be front and centre.

                  I remember it well.

                • Robert Guyton …
                  16 April 2018 at 11:58 am

                  3-0
                  I know a lot of people here hate Right-wing thugby fans

                • Cinny …
                  16 April 2018 at 1:05 pm

                  lmao James 🙂 It wasn’t so much that key was keen on rugby, it’s more like he was keen to leverage our countries love of rugby for his own political advantage.

                • Robert Guyton …
                  16 April 2018 at 1:07 pm

                  Key always pretended to be keen on rugby.
                  He’s keen on golf, having perceived in his youth that hanging around links was the way to curry favour with the rich. That realization handicapped his spirit, I reckon.

                  • cleangreen …
                    16 April 2018 at 4:08 pm

                    Robert we also vividly know Johnny Key is also very fond of money too.

                    Money from anywhere else he can get it to.

                • Stuart Munro …
                  16 April 2018 at 4:38 pm

                  Was he keen enough to play? Winston did – may still.

                  • veutoviper …
                    16 April 2018 at 10:16 pm

                    I doubt that Key ever played rugby.
                    As you say Winston did and very well, but I think that he is unlikely to play now. He was 73 last Weds, 11 April and years of smoking have taken their toll although word is that he gave up last year. As an ex smoker myself, I am pretty sure that he is still on Nicotine gum from seeing him chewing in the House. But he apparently wrote a rugby column for a local paper when he was out of Parliament 2008 – 2011.

                    • Stuart Munro …
                      16 April 2018 at 10:44 pm

                      He was playing seniors for awhile – last widely reported game was 1988 but I think he was playing socially much later. Key is made of different stuff – nauga hide for the most part I think.

                  • veutoviper …
                    17 April 2018 at 10:00 am

                    I really should not try to talk about rugby – as a woman and an ignoramus in this field! – but knew about Peters’ rugby column from some unrelated research I did some time ago. Also I went to some Parliamentary Rugby Team matches from time to time during my Public Service days and Winnie was often there/involved. (As well as MPs, the PR Team has always included a range of other ‘related’ bodies such as press members, public servants, people employed at Parliament etc and the matches were always a lot of fun.)

                    During the night (insomnia) I did a bit of a google and found these two links re Winne and the PR Team which might be of interest to you:

                    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/3046717/Peters-rejoins-pack-for-MPs-rugby-tour 2009 when Peters was out of Parliament

                    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/70442827/mps-jet-to-rugby-world-cup-in-corporatesponsored-junket – 2015 when Winnie was “media liaison officer” for the P R Team.

                    The Parliamentary Rugby Team also has a Facebook page with more up to date news, but at a quick glance could not see anything more than the above re Peters.

                    https://www.facebook.com/NewZealandParliamentaryRugbyTeam/

                    PS – Keep up the good work over on The Humanity post. You are a voice of reason and sanity there. thanks.

  8. Sanctuary 8
    16 April 2018 at 8:35 am

    Question: Will the $100+ dollars that a Spark/TVNZ pass will cost to view all matches in next years RWC include unlimited data while viewing on my mobile? Or will it come out of my existing 4GB of mobile data a month?

    • James 8.1
      16 April 2018 at 8:37 am

      Who knows – I would assume come out of your data allowance on mobile devices.

    • Roflcopter 8.2
      16 April 2018 at 12:20 pm

      I would daresay, as a marketing incentive, it will be pitched that if you have internet or phone services with Spark, data will not count against your cap (if you have one).

  9. James 9
    16 April 2018 at 9:04 am

    https://dailym.ai/2GZDKod

    So funny – touching meat gives the young ones anxiety so they are making new packaging.

    • Babayaga 9.1
      16 April 2018 at 9:24 am

      Yes, these are our future leaders. Mollycoddled, entled little prats.

    • AB 9.2
      16 April 2018 at 11:37 am

      On the whole I welcome the greater sensitivity of this generation – when I reflect on the cruelty I inflicted on possums when trapping with gin-traps 40-odd years ago I am not proud.
      When my niece looks sideways at me as I iki a snapper she has caught, I am pleased that she cares and explain that it is the quickest way to do it if we want to eat fish.
      I can tolerate the occasional absurd excess like this touch-free packaging because the overall trend is in the right direction.

    • Cinny 9.3
      16 April 2018 at 1:07 pm

      That’s super funny, must tell Miss 13 all about it, my girls have been hunting, fishing and gardening since before they could walk. We view food gathering/growing etc as a fundamental life skill.

      • james 9.3.1
        16 April 2018 at 1:47 pm

        A great skill to teach the young ones – something I am sure they will thank you for when they are older.

  10. veutoviper 10
    16 April 2018 at 9:07 am

    On Morning Report, Simon Bridges considered that the PM did not go far enough in supporting the actions of the US, UK and France

    National Party leader Simon Bridges said her comments underplay the seriousness of the situation.

    Mr Bridges says Ms Ardern should have said she supported the attacks to make sure New Zealand’s allies feel supported in their action.

    “Merely ‘accepting’ it is not strong enough,” he told Morning Report.

    Personally I will stick with Ardern’s approach at this stage, in view of the complexity of the situation and the number of ‘unknowns” involved.

    Here is the RNZ article which includes the video of Bridges being interviewed by Suzie Ferguson on Morning report (11 mins).

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/355162/pm-s-response-to-syria-should-be-stronger-bridges-says

    • Ed 10.1
      16 April 2018 at 9:15 am

      Glad to see Bridges is being open about being an imperialist warmonger.
      He served the masters in the Oil when in government.
      Now he serves the military industrial complex in opposition.

    • Morrissey 10.2
      16 April 2018 at 9:24 am

      Personally I will stick with Ardern’s approach at this stage…

      What “approach” is that? She has failed her first serious challenge as a prime minister. She had the chance to say and do something statesmanlike, and morally courageous, and she meekly fell into line with the aggressors.

      She earned praise, however, from Todd McClay, that intellectual and moral colossus.

      • Muttonbird 10.2.1
        16 April 2018 at 9:51 am

        Bridges has u-turned on that this morning calling Ardern’s actions weak.

        Which automatically means strong 🙂

        • james 10.2.1.1
          16 April 2018 at 10:55 am

          “Which automatically means strong 🙂”

          Whats been strong about it?

          • Muttonbird 10.2.1.1.1
            16 April 2018 at 11:06 am

            Independent, for one.

            Clear focus on promoting multilateral and diplomatic solutions.

            A rejection of Western hegemony in the Middle East.

      • veutoviper 10.2.2
        16 April 2018 at 11:04 am

        No, Ardern did not meekly fall into line with the aggressors.

        As in the case of the Russian “spies” expulsions, Ardern very cleverly IMO held back from going full hog into absolute support of the UK, US etc as Bridges has advocated.

        Ardern “accepts” the reasoning behind the Syria strike (not supports it), has called for the situation to be brought back into the UN jurisdiction, and has also now called for the removal of the veto provisions in the Security Council. Some pretty big calls for a nation of NZ’s small size.

        On both occasions, IMO her responses have been nuanced and politically mature, and they have also been mindful of the timing of the strike vis a vis Ardern’s trip to Europe and CHOGM in London.

        Ardern (and Peters who is already in Belgium in discussion on trade matters with the EU etc) is about to embark on first meetings with France, Germany, the EU and the UK; and trade will be a large part of those meetings.

        Whether you like it or not, NZ is a trading nation and our economy is reliant on trade for many commodities which we do not (or no longer) make ourselves, and for many components of commodities etc that we do, or we need for our primary industries – not to mention personal consumerism.

    • AB 10.3
      16 April 2018 at 9:29 am

      Rather a weak interview I thought. Suzie missed the opportunity to compare Bridges’ current stance with Key’s criticism of the Clark government for not supporting our “friends” in their Iraq invasion: Key supported Iraq invasion
      This might have allowed her to hypothesise that the current generation of National Party leaders are just reflexive US lapdogs…

  11. joe90 11
    16 April 2018 at 9:28 am

    Surprise, surprise….

    DeSmog UK has previously mapped how the company ties to climate science denial through its Brexit and Trump connections. Now, Nafeez Ahmed over at Motherboard has outlined how Cambridge Analytica has ties to the fossil fuel industry.
    Based on that research, it’s only a few steps between the company and some of the world’s biggest coal and oil companies, many of which have had a revival since the election of Donald Trump. It’s only a couple more steps to tie those connections to the already well-established web of power lobbying for Brexit.

    http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/44165-mapped-cambridge-analytica-s-ties-to-the-fossil-fuel-industry

    https://littlesis.org/maps/2928-cambridge-analytica-trump-brexit-fossil-fuels-and-climate-science-denial

  12. Muttonbird 12
    16 April 2018 at 9:33 am

    Barely Sober can travel to the US because he has a stamp for Iraq when he was following Key’s promotional visit there.

    Does that mean Key cant travel to the US also?

    Would be great if true!

    • Ed 12.1
      16 April 2018 at 9:39 am

      Great to see a toady like Soper impacted.
      As a total lackey, it must be so galling for him to to be able to visit ‘the land of the free.’
      The chances this will make him reflect on his support of imperialism are very low, though.

      • JohnSelway 12.1.1
        16 April 2018 at 10:05 am

        Well no it isn’t great – it is stupid. Doesn’t matter who it is it’s dumb US policy

        • Sacha 12.1.1.1
          16 April 2018 at 10:24 am

          What’s the bet the ban was influenced by an automated assessment of his dire writing, not just the Iraq visit.

        • veutoviper 12.1.1.2
          16 April 2018 at 10:30 am

          Its actually quite strange because since his trip to Iraq in 2015 with Key, Soper has been to the US itself for some time (as opposed to his just passing through in transit for 2 hours as was planned for his trip to the UK via the US last Friday.)

          In 2016 Soper covered the US elections from within the US for the Herald and NewstalkZB, eg:

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11744711

          http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/opinion/barry-soper-life-goes-on-in-new-york-city-while-us-election-continues/

          He apparently had no problems getting into the US on that occasion, so what has changed?

          • dv 12.1.1.2.1
            16 April 2018 at 10:43 am

            ‘so what has changed?

            Trump

          • Muttonbird 12.1.1.2.2
            16 April 2018 at 10:53 am

            Maybe the Iraq stamp isn’t the reason at all. Maybe he’s covering up and the real reason is because his dumb-ass wife got caught impersonating a police officer when fraudulently buying a gun.

          • Barfly 12.1.1.2.3
            16 April 2018 at 11:26 am

            Late urgent application – he should have applied about 3 weeks before he did for a transit visa – asking for a slap down IMO

            • JohnSelway 12.1.1.2.3.1
              16 April 2018 at 11:49 am

              I’m heading to the states in June and I applied 3 weeks ago and had it approved within 2 hours

              • Barfly …
                16 April 2018 at 12:10 pm

                Yep that is unsurprising but when you don’t apply till way late it’s a great way to get it flagged.

              • Barfly …
                16 April 2018 at 12:55 pm

                My error its 3days before departure not 3 weeks but as Soper said in his first article on it

                “Soper told the Herald On Sunday he did not realise he needed to apply for travel authorisation online as he would have spent only two hours in transit in Los Angeles
                All travellers touching down on American soil are required to fill out the form at least 72 hours prior to departure – although at times it is approved within minutes.”

                I still think the last minute urgent application is what nobbled him.

        • veutoviper 12.1.1.3
          16 April 2018 at 12:38 pm

          Latest update. Soper has filed an update on the Herald this morning and he seems to think the reason for refusal was the Iraq visit and Washington DC paranoia.

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12033192

          But it’s given me time to reflect on how travel’s changed over the years.

          Certainly Donald Trump’s living up to his strapline by making America grate again!

      • james 12.1.2
        16 April 2018 at 10:55 am

        Its amazing how some on here get pleasure on the misfortune of others.

        • adam 12.1.2.1
          16 April 2018 at 10:59 am

          Pot, kettle, black.

        • AB 12.1.2.2
          16 April 2018 at 12:18 pm

          “Misfortune”?
          Soper not being able to get on a plane is a minor inconvenience at most in the scheme of things.
          If it was true ‘misfortune’ (i.e. actual suffering had occurred, say being interned in Guantanamo Bay without trial for 6 months on suspicion of being a terrorist) then I think it’s unlikely that anyone on here would have expressed any glee.
          Using imprecision as a tool for getting at people is a bit low actually.

          • james 12.1.2.2.1
            16 April 2018 at 12:53 pm

            I never there was a misfortune measurement where it was ok to gloat and be happy about what happens to others

            I love that you define what true misfortune is – as opposed to the dictionary which defines it as bad luck, or an unlucky event.

            You might want to contact the oxford dictionary and clear that up form them.

            • AB 12.1.2.2.1.1
              16 April 2018 at 3:31 pm

              This has nothing to do with dictionary meanings. It’s about your absurd insinuation that being amused by Soper’s blunder and resulting minor inconvenience is somehow morally deficient.

        • veutoviper 12.1.2.3
          16 April 2018 at 12:49 pm

          Come on , james. Soper would have roared with laughter if it had been one of his colleagues in the Parliamentary Press Gallery.

          I plead guilty to raising it as a light moment yesterday on OM – and then being blasted by ‘cg’ for doing so, but then elsewhere on OM later accused of having no humour by the forbidden fruit man – not to mention also being called a “holier than thou”. You just can’t win here sometimes. But never a dull moment. LOL.

          PS – see 12.1.1.3 for an update article from Soper.

          • veutoviper 12.1.2.3.1
            16 April 2018 at 1:05 pm

            A further PS – I am considering whether to pass on the “holier than thou” parcel/prize to 7.2.2.1. But perhaps that would be pushing my luck and I would become the one suffering a misfortune.

          • patricia bremner 12.1.2.3.2
            16 April 2018 at 8:37 pm

            Veutoviper, I laughed out loud. Some of the posturing is plain rude here and slightly silly. Soper is not known for his generosity of spirit, and he does tend to sling off at others, so I did not feel too much sympathy for him. His daughter is another matter.

            • veutoviper 12.1.2.3.2.1
              16 April 2018 at 8:44 pm

              I am pretty sure you can buy reduced cream and Maggi onion soup mix in London (plus of course lemon juice or vinegar) to make onion dip. I lived in London for 7 years in the 1970s and I can recall making it for ‘kiwi’ parties!

        • monty 12.1.2.4
          16 April 2018 at 3:41 pm

          Soper’s “misfortune” was his own fault and to be fair he raised it in an article and opened himself up to ridicule.

          When you travel and especially if you do it a lot you tend to check on getting visa’s and if you if do it at the last moment and don’t get one your own fault for being daft.

          I would assume had he done it much earlier, he could have had time to clear up the trip to Iran.

          As it was last minute attempt to get a visa it is his fault and if I was in the same position I am sure my friends would give tease the hell out me.

    • Gabby 12.2
      16 April 2018 at 10:47 am

      It’s a shame Soapy can’t go there what with it being far far away.

  13. Morrissey 13
    16 April 2018 at 9:36 am

    Supporters of the “surgical strike” on Syria
    No. 5: National’s “Foreign Affairs spokesman” TODD McCLAY

    National Party spokesperson for Foreign Affairs Todd McClay said Ms Ardern had sent a powerful message.

    “The government has made a strong statement and the National Party supports that.”

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/355138/national-supports-pm-s-strong-statement-on-chemical-warfare

    Supporters of the “surgical strike” on Syria is a series devoted to publicizing the moral titans and inspiringly brave souls who have loudly supported the Paris/London/Washington axis. It is compiled by Morrissey Breen and james, for Daisycutter Sports, Inc.

    No. 4 Vice-President Mike Pence
    No. 3 Jacinda Ardern
    No. 2 Justin Trudeau
    No. 1 Boris Johnson

    • Muttonbird 13.1
      16 April 2018 at 9:45 am

      Well they’ve about faced on that statement today when Bridges suddenly said the language wasn’t strong enough.

      So you’ve got McClay saying Ardern made a strong statement and Bridge contradicting him by saying it was weak.

      Cant help thinking if it were the Labour opposition contradicting each other in this way it would be front page news for days.

      • Gabby 13.1.1
        16 April 2018 at 10:48 am

        Soosie didn’t ask Slick Britches about the contradiction I gather.

        • Muttonbird 13.1.1.1
          16 April 2018 at 10:50 am

          Doesn’t surprise me – they’re not interested in hits on National. They’d be all over it if it were Labour.

          • Barfly 13.1.1.1.1
            16 April 2018 at 11:30 am

            Absolutely agree It would be headlines

            “Labour in disarray!”

            “Labour Cabinet mutinying!”

            “Sheer Incompetence!”

            etc etc etc

    • veutoviper 13.2
      16 April 2018 at 11:20 am

      Winston Peters is meeting with Boris Johnson this week. I would love to be a fly on the wall! LOL

      And perhaps Todd McClay did not read Ardern’s statement carefully.

      And perhaps Bridges did not speak to McClay.

      And perhaps …

      • red-blooded 13.2.1
        16 April 2018 at 5:20 pm

        And to be fair, RNZ probably don’t pay as close attention to what McClay says as to what Ardern says. That’s hardly a surprise.

  14. Tricledrown 14
    16 April 2018 at 9:44 am

    Stuff news has an anti light rail and public transport article in its News today.
    Using spurious research from the Koch bros Cato institute and Mitt Ronnie’s Bain company pure anti public transport propaganda.
    Looking to advertise uber cars and buses less efficient forms of transport.
    Just republishing republican political propaganda Stuffed spews.

    • Muttonbird 14.1
      16 April 2018 at 9:46 am

      They’re against light rail?

      Great, proper trains instead!!!

      • soddenleaf 14.1.1
        16 April 2018 at 1:10 pm

        The super city, the supposed only success of Keys years. Hamstrung at birth by Hide, incapable of planning our way out of the housing crisis. Anti public transport, fiscally poor, we elected a financial whizz P.M., yeah turned out he was a much better shit shovelling politician than economic manager. Giving a financier, a GFC, a earthquake, opportunity knows chaos, should have been a match made for NZ. Key failure reverberates in lost opportunities, lost growth, lost economy. Light rail, don’t get me started.

    • Morrissey 14.2
      16 April 2018 at 9:52 am

      One of the most ignorant of those right wing fantasists was the late Owen McShane, who was humiliated when he came on Chris Laidlaw’s radio programme one Sunday about ten years ago. The topic was what the government should do about New Zealand’s transport infrastructure. One of the participants was Merv Smith, an extremely well informed railway enthusiast and also, unfortunately for McShane, someone who does not suffer fools lightly.

      For most of the discussion, McShane had nothing to say, until suddenly he swooped in from left field with a gem for the ages. Speaking slowly and with maximum gravitas, McShane said: “There’s a simple answer to the problem of a national roading network. Why don’t they just rip up the Main Trunk railway line, and use what remains for a national highway?”

      There was an audible gasp from everyone else in the studio. Possibly none of them had ever before encountered full-blown lunacy at such close quarters. After the gasping, there was a burst of incredulous laughter.

      Then Merv Smith decided it was time to front up to McShane’s moronic full toss and dispatch it to the boundary. “Turn the Main Trunk Railway into a road? There are thousands of bridges on it! How wide is this road going to be?”

      McShane idiotically tried to say something, but he had been destroyed, as surely as Dan Quayle was destroyed by Lloyd Bentsen in 1992.

      http://morrisseybreen.blogspot.co.nz/2018/01/rip-owen-mcshane-mar-6-2012.html

      • AB 14.2.1
        16 April 2018 at 10:07 am

        You’ve wrecked my day Morrissey.
        McShane had mercifully evaporated from my memory entirely.

  15. adam 15
    16 April 2018 at 9:46 am

    Censorship.

    With the peaceful protest in Gaza those in power are freaking, out and have a willing accomplice in YouTube. Abby Martin’s interview with Max Blumenthal has been banned in 28 countries, and comes with warnings in many others.

    Not us of course, our leaders are not freaking out over peaceful protest.

    https://twitter.com/EmpireFiles/status/981801394360340480

    If you want to see what all the fuss is about – here is the interview, about 2 years old. 28 minutes long. Watching it myself, many parts of the interview could have caused conniptions to the men in power. I’ll let you decided which bit hurts the zionist state the most.

    • Cinny 15.1
      16 April 2018 at 1:11 pm

      Thanks for the link Adam, looks really interesting, will check it out at the end of the day.

    • Morrissey 15.2
      17 April 2018 at 9:35 am

      I note this video is accompanied by this warning….

      “Notice: Age-restricted video (based on Community Guidelines)”.

      What is there in Max Blumenthal’s words that could violate any community guidelines?

      • adam 15.2.1
        17 April 2018 at 11:05 am

        He talks about Israel being a Fascist state.

        • Morrissey 15.2.1.1
          17 April 2018 at 11:09 am

          That will offend fascist Israelis. Thanks, we’ve now identified the community whose guidelines have been violated by this dastardly truth-teller.

  16. adam 16
    16 April 2018 at 10:26 am

    Part 5.

    International women’s day series, about working class women in England.

    https://libcom.org/blog/series-interviews-working-class-women-west-london-part-5-14042018

  17. alwyn 17
    16 April 2018 at 11:33 am

    Well, I guess we must now assume that the CoL screams about how they can’t fulfil their pre-election promises because there isn’t enough money are just a load of bs.
    Certainly Grant Robertson doesn’t seem to think that Health, Education and Child Poverty are the truly important matters. He is instead getting very interested in Circuses.

    Look at these comments while he is off on an overseas jaunt to watch the Commonwealth games.
    ” Robertson said he is looking into what sort of major events New Zealand could play host to in the near future, and whether the Commonwealth Games would fit.”
    followed up with
    “I am currently looking at what the best focus is in terms of the major sporting events New Zealand should bid for – multi-sport or otherwise.”
    He did, to be fair, state
    “At this point the Government does not have a plan to bid for the Games,” Robertson said”.
    At this point? Does that just mean until he gets back next week?
    Well so much for the rubbish that they wanted to fix the infrastructure. Roll on the games seems more to their taste.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/102994169/what-would-a-new-zealand-hosted-commonwealth-games-look-like-in-2026-or-beyond

    • red-blooded 17.1
      16 April 2018 at 11:43 am

      Robertson is Minister for Sport – it’s hardly surprising that he’s keen on hosting sporting ventures. And any possible bid would be well down the track, if it happened at all. Stop looking for things to be outraged by!

      • alwyn 17.1.1
        16 April 2018 at 11:47 am

        I guess you have also swung into line and support the America’s Cup beano in Auckland?

        • red-blooded 17.1.1.1
          16 April 2018 at 5:25 pm

          Not particularly. I can think of better things to spend money on. It’s more of a minority sport and the facilities don’t benefit the wider community to the same extent. Having said that, I’m not an Aucklander so I don’t really have a strong basis for that last comment – it’s just an assumption.

          • alwyn 17.1.1.1.1
            16 April 2018 at 10:20 pm

            Well, it won’t matter. The taxpayer is going to have to put up the bulk of the money, not just the people in Auckland.
            By the way. You comment
            “any possible bid would be well down the track”.
            Grant was talking about
            ” New Zealand could play host to in the near future”.
            How would you suggest his “near future” and your “well down the track” tie up?
            No, I’m afraid that the homeless, the children in poverty, the toxic hospitals and the overcrowded schools that he was talking about will all have to wait. Robertson is infatuated by all those good-looking athletes.
            On the other hand his screams of anguish do appear to be a bit exaggerated. Perhaps there is nothing actually wrong with the infrastructure and he is just looking for an excuse to adopt the traditional Labour Party policy that they have never seen a tax they didn’t implement.

  18. alwyn 18
    16 April 2018 at 11:45 am

    I’m sure that Ms Genter will be pleased with this action by the NZTA.
    It seems pretty typical of the current Government. Promise consultation on their proposals and then just go ahead and do it anyway.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/103108752/a-sign-of-consultation-transport-agency-changes-signs-before-public-have-their-say

    It seems pretty standard for what is going on of course. Labour promised that there would be no tax increases prior to the 2020 election and have just gone ahead anyway. Now they are going to reduce the speed limits on a State Highway before the promised consultation takes place.
    What is the betting that they will shortly announce that the reduced speed limit must go ahead because we have already spent the money on the signs and we don’t want to waste it?

    • Muttonbird 18.1
      16 April 2018 at 11:52 am

      One minute there are too many committees, then next there are not enough.

      Make up your mind!

      • alwyn 18.1.1
        16 April 2018 at 11:58 am

        “One minute there are too many committees”.
        Did you mean to reply to some other comment?
        I certainly don’t see anything I said about committees. What are you talking about?

        • Muttonbird 18.1.1.1
          16 April 2018 at 12:04 pm

          You’re crying about lack of consultation when such consultation requires some sort of committee to run. But then the right wing meme you people are trying to create is one when the Labour led government is shy of action preferring to form committees.

          Again, although it will change tomorrow, which is your position today?

          • alwyn 18.1.1.1.1
            16 April 2018 at 12:45 pm

            The people concerned are represented by their Local Bodies. NZTA didn’t even talk to them. What other committee did you have in mind? The local Green Party activists association?

            You were specifically talking about ME. Now you are talking about some vague ” right wing meme you people”. If you are going to accuse me of something then offer evidence that I did it.

            Can I just say “Muttonbird defrauded the taxpayer by claiming a benefit that she wasn’t entitled to” just because an MP in a party she seems to support appears to have done it 20 years ago? Smear you for the actions of someone in a group you seem to support is OK is it?

    • Sacha 18.2
      16 April 2018 at 12:13 pm

      “It seems pretty typical of the current Government. Promise consultation on their proposals and then just go ahead and do it anyway.”

      What examples did you have in mind?

      • alwyn 18.2.1
        16 April 2018 at 12:35 pm

        Consulted with the Local bodies in Taranaki about exploration permits did they?
        Or perhaps with the industry itself.
        Did they talk to the people living near the high-rise slum in Auckland that they are proposing for Kiwibuild? Building housing on the land is entirely sensible but planning to put 4,000 homes on 29 hectares with no provision for schools is seemingly raising some valid nimbyism. The local schools are removing the area from their enrolment zones.

        • Sacha 18.2.1.1
          16 April 2018 at 2:21 pm

          Was there a promise to consult the oil industry about future exploration permits? Seemed pretty clear Lab + Greens policy to me for many years before now.

          If you are talking about the Unitec development, that will need to be consented. Has not happened yet.

          Do you have any examples where govt has promised consultation and then acted without it?

    • Sacha 18.3
      16 April 2018 at 2:16 pm

      “Labour promised that there would be no tax increases prior to the 2020 election and have just gone ahead anyway. Now they are going to reduce the speed limits on a State Highway before the promised consultation takes place.”

      Labour is not the NZTA.

      • alwyn 18.3.1
        16 April 2018 at 8:18 pm

        “Labour is not the NZTA”.
        Labour is supposedly the dominant party in the Government. The NZTA is a Government Agency.
        Therefore Labour is responsible for anything the NZTA does.
        If they aren’t I assume you are going to withdraw, and apologise for, every comment about Coleman and the things that have turned up at Middlemore Hospital. By your logic he isn’t in any way responsible.

        • Sacha 18.3.1.1
          16 April 2018 at 10:07 pm

          False equivalence. The new govt is half a year old. The previous one was 18x that long. Turning the ship around takes time.

    • red-blooded 18.4
      16 April 2018 at 5:31 pm

      Labour has not broken any promises about tax. Check the policy – it clearly said that fuel excises would be adjusted as per normal practice & that Auckland Council would be allowed to implement a regional fuel tax. I suspect you know this, but you’re going with the theory that if you repeat it often enough it’ll start to become uncontested “truth”.

    • Gabby 18.5
      16 April 2018 at 6:45 pm

      You think the NZ Truckers Alliance are implementing Labour Party policy?
      You’re adorable.

      • alwyn 18.5.1
        16 April 2018 at 8:22 pm

        I’ve actually learnt something. You don’t know the real name of the organisation that is the NZ Truckers Association. Good try though. Certainly I had never heard of them.
        However you are probably the only person who connects NZTA with them.

  21. Ed 21
    16 April 2018 at 1:49 pm

    Nafeez Ahmed wrote this in 2013.
    It is still highly relevant.

    “Syria intervention plan fueled by oil interests, not chemical weapon concern
    Massacres of civilians are being exploited for narrow geopolitical competition to control Mideast oil, gas pipelines.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/aug/30/syria-chemical-attack-war-intervention-oil-gas-energy-pipelines

  22. savenz 22
    16 April 2018 at 1:51 pm

    An interesting debate, what happens if trustee’s sell Maori settlement land. Also what happens to the iwi if the money gets whittled away so that the next generation, have next to nothing…

    Should they only have ‘leases’ of land as ‘best practise’ for example….

    Ngāti Manuhiri Settlement Trust shouldn’t have sold land, members claim

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2018/04/ng-ti-manuhiri-settlement-trust-shouldn-t-have-sold-land-members-claim.html

    And in a wider context, if our government starts selling off land with very short sighted goals in mind, such as the high country sales, state houses, land corp sales, council land sales, SHA’s, even the Labour government is selling off part of the unitec land for housing as part of it’s approach. Suddenly there is less and less land owned by the people of this country…

    There are more important things than money, such as having a place to call home. Short term shareholder returns have become an obsession amongst the managerial class, for the past 30 years and it does not seem to matter what ethnicity you are.

    • JanM 22.1
      16 April 2018 at 4:35 pm

      As I understand it, the land that was sold was not part of the settlement – it was commercial land purchased with money from the settlement – this is not the same thing, surely!

  23. savenz 23
    16 April 2018 at 2:09 pm

    It’s weird how many of our developers seem to have links to the drug industry… interesting also how ‘subdividing’ land is so much more profitable than building in NZ, that is because there is so many sharks out there, issues and difficulties and all the planning is not really thought out properly like Geo tech in the resource consenting state or any effects, instead it’s push everything through, sell, probably push through the building consent and then leave the problems for someone else to deal with at the building stages.

    There also seems a lack of interest in helping the average Joe build their own affordable house, not for profit but for living in for themselves.

    In NZ there is a huge lobby group for building to be scaled up and there seems to be a huge amount of problems when that happens… Fletchers, Bella visa, etc. I’m not sure that the reliance of foreign builders and workpeople who seem to have even less regulation and more problems with quality and counterfeit materials in their country, will pan out…

    No mistakes seem to be learnt, however from all our disasters.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/103045525/people-are-talking-about-suing-me-but-its-like-get-in-line

  24. red-blooded 24
    16 April 2018 at 5:33 pm

    Note – One News is reporting on results of latest poll tonight. They’re hyping it as if it’s going to be bad news for Labour. I’m crossing my fingers that they’re just playing mind games with us…

  25. red-blooded 25
    16 April 2018 at 6:06 pm

    Well, not as bad as they made it seem. Labour down a bit, but still just 1% below the Nats and the support going mostly to Greens & NZF. Simon Bridge not really registering (10% pref PM), although Nats are steady (actually up 1%). Good to hear Jessica Mutch, “If I was Simon Bridges I’d be worried”.

    So, not great, not dreadful…

  26. Ankerrawshark 26
    16 April 2018 at 7:30 pm

    Yes I saw this item at the dentist ie the poll results, but managed to miss the actual figures. From the spell I expected a disastrous outcome for labour. Not so of course.
    Labour 1 point behind national (shouldn’t the appropriate spell be neck and neck?). Coation partners on 5% and 6%…….not looking great fit national especially with bridges at 10%……..the spin “bridges up from 1% to 10%”…….
    This of course comes after an unrelenting series of hits on labour around spies and Curran and sweet fa on Middlemore

  27. newsense 27
    17 April 2018 at 3:13 am

    Same anger about the poll reporting:

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/355249/labour-below-national-in-latest-colmar-brunton-poll

    The coalition is SEVEN points up on election night, Labour is SIX points up and Labour and the Greens could go it alone on these numbers.

    Makes you wonder…

  28. eco maori 28
    17 April 2018 at 7:07 am

    The Am Show yes that Southern Response insurance company is playing with peoples lives Peter Glassons going on a hunger strike to get his house fixed I bet non of these people in Christ Church are wealthy they profile people the wealthy ones they know have money to sue they pay out but the common person they give the run around no mone to sue plane and simple as that . This is the shonky way of doing things.
    Duncan be nice m8 some
    As for clamping cars parked in the wrong place Iv never had the pleasure I no there are some hacks to get them off but Eco Maori would not try this as being brown I would be arrested without anyone listening to my side of the situation Iv had that situation the sandflies did not even ask anyone else questions just took the other person word and arrested me I lost a job a house .One neighbour supported me he new what the other people were like Eco Maori won that case but lost a job. Kia kaha common people. P.S Eco Maori is in a Daved and Goliath situation
    Ka kite ano

    • eco maori 28.1
      17 April 2018 at 8:01 am

      Newshub lets get this straight Eco Maori is not Gay just because I respect all people and advocate for equality for all. IF a person is born Gay it does not mean that they don’t have a right to be happy and live a life free from discrimination. The sandflies are that desperate that if I fart they will try and use that to damage my Mana.
      Mark I’m going to build my own house I have plans .The Block show on TV 3 is one of my favorite shows .Amanda that was funny I say the sand flies are very stiff they got a rakau up some were it stops there Morales from working .
      I don’t check the clothes I wear 18 years ago a m8 of mine started buying clothes from Auckland Port he was getting them cheap and made heaps he did not tell me the mark up but he was making heaps I thought about jumping on his band wagon and joining him but discarded this and brought a food caravan instead . Ana to kai ka kite ano

      • eco maori 28.1.1
        17 April 2018 at 8:22 am

        The Am Show I brought my first record player 35 years ago I had plenty of money in those days my records were AC/DC Talking Heads .Dire Straights .Phil Collins Grace Jones thats all I can come up with I liked Stop making sense by Talking Heads it should has said Not making sense . I have figured this System out I now Exactly how it works Ka kite ano P.S Im studying at the minute Yes Duncan its all about the publicity my studying is leading me to the Anglican Church we have to many people stealing lying and cheating I say we have to embrace the Morels of the Church but don’t go judging thy other people
        or being a bigot

        • eco maori 28.1.1.1
          17 April 2018 at 8:44 am

          The Am Show the Coach is right when one can self examination your self and admite to yourself about your flaws that is a good thing which shows intelligent and maturity.
          Mark S I ask ladys who have powerfull partners to kick them in the ass and get them to do the right thing as some people use the wrong part of there anatomy to make there choices Ano to kai ka kite ano

  29. eco maori 29
    17 April 2018 at 8:57 am

    Here’s a good song I keep telling my children that it won’t be long and they will be me a grandparent so plan for it.

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/J161D6GuJ8c/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEXCNACELwBSFryq4qpAwkIARUAAIhCGAE=&rs=AOn4CLDCfT9anwPpFaSaDBk3oR25illaxA P.S Newshub I know I keep getting the Show mixed up I am strategizing how I say things and what I comment on sorry Ka kite ano

  30. eco maori 30
    17 April 2018 at 11:02 am

    There you go the trickle has started for a change to a environmentally friendly Papatuanku World economy it will turn real fast and that trickle will turn into a Tsunami and those that do not get on board will be left to the History books Eco Maori says lets all surf this great change together and all benefit from this intelligent change to OUR society to thinking about the mokopunas future welbeing and not just the now and then we owe this to our mokopunas and Papatuanku here’s a link.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12031960

    • eco maori 30.1
      17 April 2018 at 12:03 pm

      You all know that I have been studying OUR Maori history and have learned to be proud of my culture and my tipuna. I came across a interesting fact that is that Maori culture influenced the change to our society for the right for ladies to vote . In the late 1800 maori ladies had the right to land if they married out of the hupu they were given land from there whano and could farm that land as there own mean while the European ladies were not entitle to own land or vote she had no rights. This situation created problems when a family owned a large estate and only had Daughters as a heir to the estate another bad situation to this phenomenon was if a ladies husband died who gets the estate if there are no sons .
      Mean while European men were marring Maori ladies and being gifted land to there new family and if the man died she kept the land she could have the right to rule over a hupu she could influence the outcome of hupu A maori ladie in those days had a lot of Mana deservedly so.
      The European ladies had no rights besides being married to a man whom had all the rights and Because of this fact Kate Sheppard fought for the right to vote for ladies and formed the WCTC A advocated for Ladies suffrage .
      I don’t have any links to these facts but they are there to find Kia Kaha Maori cultured people ,Ka kite ano

      • eco maori 30.1.1
        17 April 2018 at 3:52 pm

        ECO MAORI ROTORUA hand mans services please ring (027)5116391 $40 hour for labour only ad $10 a hour for power tools + cost of waste disposel

        Eco Maori is starting Tree trimming hedge trimming falling small trees about 300 wide stem water blasting 2800 psi water blaster fix fences paint change a tap washer unblock drains what ever If you want a honest job ring me ROTORUA only
        this is not my main ph number so please leave a message and I will get back to you.

        • eco maori 30.1.1.1
          17 April 2018 at 6:41 pm

          Newshub many thanks to Paddy Gower for highlighting the polite of the people of Christ Church for all the shoddy repairs of there houses that are now worth less than some peoples mortgages . This is the type of mess that the national government has left the Labour lead Coalition Government in schools in health care our roads prisons justices systems $90 billion in dept .
          We are very lucky that we have had a change of government to a labour lead goverment in 2010 OUR government dept was just $13 billion what does that tell you that the tax cuts were funded by shonkys love of borrowing money from his m8 for his m8 .
          I did warn of the shoddy work going on in Tauranga I drive past those house weekly I feel for the people who have lost money on those houses .
          Ka kite ano P.S I have back up work but I like to be the boss

          • eco maori 30.1.1.1.1
            17 April 2018 at 7:22 pm

            The Crowd Goes Wild Mulls and James Wairangi he love that job interviewing the people from his old profession.
            Yes guys Aron Smith is pumping Mulls you tell it like it is e hoa .
            The Tall blacks and the Tall did good at the common wealth games guys
            Yep Marty Banks is a gypsy it looks like hes at home in Italy .
            I agree Blake Karariki was a excerlint addition to the Warriors .P.S whats with the tennis players they like to throw the toys out of the cot
            Kia kaha guys ka kite ano