Open mike 16/04/2024

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 16th, 2024 - 94 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

94 comments on “Open mike 16/04/2024 ”

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  1. Traveller 1
    16 April 2024 at 9:35 am

    Stuff, ‘Newshub’ deal to save commercial TV news | The Post

    What these organisations do in the privacy of their own death throes is entirely their business. But there should be no government support provided.

    • Ad 1.1
      16 April 2024 at 9:41 am

      Would you support keeping NZOn Air funding?

      Or government funding for Newsroom?

      There's always a line to be drawn somewhere.

      • Traveller 1.1.1
        16 April 2024 at 1:32 pm

        I support:

        1. A fully tax-payer funded, non-commercial public service broadcasting model.
        2. NZ On Air funding public interest broadcasting on public service platforms.
        3. Zero funding for private sector media.
    • Robert Guyton 1.2
      16 April 2024 at 9:48 am

      Hasn't this Government recently provided support to a ski field?

      A ski field???

      • Ad 1.2.1
        16 April 2024 at 9:53 am

        Ski fields are endangered species so they need taxpayer support.

        Like ConcertFM.

        • Robert Guyton 1.2.1.1
          16 April 2024 at 9:56 am

          Perhaps those using those spaces and listening to that station have influence over Ministers.

          • Ad 1.2.1.1.1
            16 April 2024 at 10:07 am

            There was going to be a big public media merger last year. Not now.

            The next step after they cut the public service is to go after subsidized services. Food banks. School lunches. NZSO. Media support like Maori TV. Discretionary welfare payments like hardship. Public subsidies of all kinds.

            It's the Ruth Richardson pattern, and it gets noisy.

        • Kay 1.2.1.2
          16 April 2024 at 10:53 am

          Arts and cultural funding in general is an endangered species in NZ. We're governed by a bunch of philistines (successive governments, not just this one). Sports and roads are far more worthy, apparently. RNZ Concert might be 'niche' but it's practically all that's left, and must be saved.

          Besides, it's a sanity saver when the news gets too much. I'm enjoying it as I type 🙂

          • Anne 1.2.1.2.1
            16 April 2024 at 11:18 am

            RNZ Concert might be 'niche' but it's practically all that's left, and must be saved.

            As a supporter and listener I wholeheartedly agree. It keeps me sane in Auckland's traffic woes for starters.

        • Mikey 1.2.1.3
          16 April 2024 at 11:33 am

          And Saudi sheep 'farms'.

      • Michael P 1.2.2
        16 April 2024 at 12:05 pm

        Their argument would be that around 800 full time jobs are involved and over $100 million turnover between whakapapa and Turoa. Governments on both sides regard anything that is part of the tourism industry as very important. Tourism expenditure in 2022 was around $26 billion. (mostly domestic $24 billion)

        Also I think it may be a loan rather than a straight out gift? Could be wrong on that.

        Regardless, in my opinion it's still corporate welfare. No business is too big to fail IMO.

      • Traveller 1.2.3
        16 April 2024 at 1:35 pm

        In the form of a 25% shareholding and loans. Even then I'm not entirely convinced it's a good idea.

        • Binders full of women 1.2.3.1
          16 April 2024 at 7:14 pm

          I used to work in philanthropic sector and we joked about 'groans' because if any org ever got a govt loan they morphed into grants that were never payed back.

          • Traveller 1.2.3.1.1
            16 April 2024 at 8:33 pm

            Yep. I am at heart a supporter of the free market. And while I'm in favour of governments regulating markets when it is necessary, I draw as firm a line as I can at the public provides direct financial support to private sector organisations.

  2. adam 2
    16 April 2024 at 9:43 am

    What the hell is happening in Sydney with knife attacks.

  3. Robert Guyton 3
    16 April 2024 at 9:51 am

    My comments are being moderated.

  4. Molly 4
    16 April 2024 at 9:52 am

    "And that is before I get time to have a peek into the actual report."

    Is there a reason we still don't have a rolling eyes emoticon?

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

    • weka 4.1
      16 April 2024 at 9:58 am

      please don’t pick a fight with another author, and the site owner/sysop under my posts. This is a difficult enough conversation as it is. But even if it had not been another author, taking potshots at people over this is just a big no. You know how to use your words better than this.

  5. roblogic 5
    16 April 2024 at 10:12 am

    Bombers hits the mark and this is why I’m increasingly ambivalent about gender debates

    Class: You can not point out that the demarcation line in a capitalist democracy like NZ is the 1% richest plus their 9% enablers vs the 90% rest of us. Oh you can wank on and on about your identity and your feelings about your identity in a never ending intersectionist diversity pronoun word salad, but you can’t point out that it’s really the 90% us vs the 10% them class break down because that would be effective and we can’t have effective on mainstream media when feelings are the currency to audience solidarity in an ever diminishing pie of attention.

    • weka 5.1
      16 April 2024 at 10:19 am

      it's why I talk about sex as a class as well.

      • Psycho Milt 5.1.1
        16 April 2024 at 5:41 pm

        Annoys the hell out of me when people treat sexism as "identity politics." Sex isn't a feeling of identity, it's a class, and a far more sharply defined class than any of the economic or relationship-to-production ones Bomber might feel are proper classes.

    • Molly 5.2
      16 April 2024 at 10:28 am

      Your current ambivalence comes across Rob, which is fine by me.

      I strongly believe people should put their individual energy into their personal priorities. This is the only way sustained pressure can happen to enact long lasting change.

      However, there is a distinction between that, and advising others on where they should put their priorities (and energy). I think Bomber falls into that trap of demanding people to align, rather than persuading them to.

      • Robert Guyton 5.2.1
        16 April 2024 at 10:37 am

        Wondering if there are, or ever have been, any trans people engaging in the debate here on TS?

        Surely they'd appreciate the keen interest being shown and the great deal of background reading many of the commenters have done.

        They would, of course, be warmly welcomed and invited to debate.

        It puzzles me that their presence is not apparent. This surely must be a hot-spot for discussions on issues that affect them intimately.

        • weka 5.2.1.1
          16 April 2024 at 10:43 am

          Yes there have been trans people engaged in the debate here on TS. There probably still are, people aren’t required to share their gender identity before commenting.

          Maybe next you will ask what happened to all the feminists that used to comment here.

          • Robert Guyton 5.2.1.1.1
            16 April 2024 at 10:50 am

            Not wanting anyone to share their gender identity here, weka, just wondering how comfortable they might feel joining the debate atm. Naturally, there'd be a range of responses, but there might also be a trend that speaks to the tenor of the debate.

            • weka 5.2.1.1.1.1
              16 April 2024 at 11:00 am

              no shit. A tenor of debate that you contribute to.

              Again, ask yourself why so many feminists and other women stopped being authors and commenting here.

              • Robert Guyton …
                16 April 2024 at 11:16 am

                Fair enough about spatting, weka.

                With regards the reasons for feminist authors and commenters leaving the site; I just don't know. If there were reasons expressed and I'd read them, I'd perhaps know, but I don't recall seeing anything explicit. Can you tell me, please?

                • weka …
                  16 April 2024 at 11:34 am

                  a number of things.

                  In the past moderation was looser and there was more abuse. That puts women authors and commenters off.

                  In the debates that meant a lot to women eg discussion rape culture, it was incredibly hard going and many women simply had better things to do with their time and hearts.

                  There's also the general bloke nature of the place.

                  There was a period of time where specific men (commenters and authors) caused problems for feminists in particular.

                  Some of the women here worked on the women's project for many months behind the scenes to make some changes. Lynn offered to set up a sister site for women. Two of the male authors took a hatchet to the project and the women just walked away (myself included, I didn't write or comment onsite for over a year. Ihumātao brought me back).

                  There was a period of time before that when we had women authors and commenters and I at least moderated to encourage that. Lynn looked at the stats at one point and confirmed that the numbers of women here had increased. Many of those regular women are now gone. That's true of commenters and authors generally, they do tend to move through. But there have been specific issues for women that in the end were just too hard to address.

                  Likewise, it's hard to trans people to be here. Not all trans people support gender identity ideology, or they support some rights fights and not others. Some rely heavily on the rainbow culture. I try and moderate to temper how trans rights are talked about, and there are limits on how I can do that. For instance Joe linked to tWig asking for the term autogynephilia to be banned. That's just not possible. We don't ban words and we're not going to stop people talking about a psyhicatric condition listed in the DSM-5. I would however moderate if someone here started using AGP as a pejorative against another commenter.

                  It's also hard for Māori to be here. Same dynamics.

                  • Robert Guyton …
                    16 April 2024 at 12:14 pm

                    Thanks, weka.

                    Intriguing to hear about a then-proposed sister site. It would be interesting to read its proposed kaupapa etc.

                    The list of groups who find it hard to be here could include neurodivergent people as well. All of those folk probably feel the same about being in the world outside of TS as well.

                    Who does this site suit best, I wonder?

                    • weka …
                      16 April 2024 at 12:34 pm

                      why would neurodivergent people find it hard to be in a feminist online space? I'm neurodivergent and I love women's spaces. Lots of ND women do.

                      The purpose of the women's site was to suit women 💃

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      16 April 2024 at 12:49 pm

                      I wrote:

                      "The list of groups who find it hard to be here …"

                      and by "here", I meant TS.

                      This isn't a "feminist online space", is it?

                    • weka []
                      16 April 2024 at 2:00 pm

                      👍 Understood.

                  • Shanreagh …
                    16 April 2024 at 12:22 pm

                    I left in Aug23 mainly because of being justly moderated off after becoming annoyed at the continual non participation, socratic type style or reckons of one poster.

                    I maintained a 'watching brief', ha ha, looking at TS every day. At first I had a sticky on my screen saying not to post on TS but toward the end of my time away it was automatic to read only.

                    I came back in Feb24. What brought me back was the excellence of the female author, Weka, and the posts from female posters of all stripes on women's issues. Should this coverage lessen or the reckons on women's issues from a base of ignorance increase I will happily go again. Life is too short. I crave the exchange of ideas not feeding the basics. Just a personal preference.

                    I am truly grateful that some men are looking at the Cass Review. it's companion piece article from BMJ makes a good combination.

                    It worries me a bit though, that much of this stuff had been pointed out by females on the site in times gone past but has been framed, if it was read/responded to at all, as being anti trans when in fact it was women's rights focussed. There is a difference.

                    I read and participate on X Twitter. I value the men there who avowedly support the womens' rights movement and in fact wrote to the two I follow deeply, after the bad patch I was in after Aug23 when the womens rights cause seemed to be misunderstood, generally, by many men here. X has virtues in being able to be pithy…..like an 'appetiser' but the 'main course' here on TS is worth its weight in gold.

                    • weka …
                      16 April 2024 at 12:31 pm

                      great sticky tactic! I deleted my twitter app from my phone sometimes as a way of curating what I engage with.

                    • tWig …
                      16 April 2024 at 4:46 pm

                      Women who support YOUR version of the womens' rights movement, Shanreagh.

                      In the UK, a Womens' Equality Party was established in 2015, well before Posie Parker set up hers finally (after several attempts, with paperwork out of order in previous tries).

                      This lists the party objectives here: https://www.womensequality.org.uk/objectives.

                      According to Wikipedia, in 2022 "the party voted in support of a motion to back gender self-identification. Of the party members who took part in the vote at the party's conference, 138 voted in favour of gender self-identification, while 29 opposed, and 5 abstained."

                      The party objectives and the position on transgender identification are ones that many, many NZ women support.

                    • Shanreagh …
                      16 April 2024 at 5:33 pm

                      tWig I don't think I mentioned any version of the womens rights movements or parties, just that I wanted to come back when I read Weka's posts and read the replies. I'll go away just as quickly, as life is too short.

                      I tend not support parties as such. I support the women's movement or women's rights issues.

                      I was aware of PoW but did not know about the Womens Equality Party, so thanks for that advice. I will look them up.

        • Molly 5.2.1.2
          16 April 2024 at 10:46 am

          Don't bother wondering at me, Robert. I don't find your random vague musings worth the reply.

          Can you wander off somewhere else?

          • weka 5.2.1.2.1
            16 April 2024 at 10:58 am

            both of you, please stop the spat. Just walk away if you don't want to reply.

          • Robert Guyton 5.2.1.2.2
            16 April 2024 at 11:00 am

            I would if I could, Molly, but I've been shunted, as you were, into Open Mike and moderation at the same time, probably because of my random vague musings 🙂

        • roblogic 5.2.1.3
          16 April 2024 at 11:13 am

          These issues might touch people here more closely than you realise. Adolescence and identity formation is a universal human experience (or should be!)

          • Robert Guyton 5.2.1.3.1
            16 April 2024 at 11:22 am

            Doubtless you are correct, roblogic. I felt those same drivers resulted in much of what happened on Parliament's lawn at the time Trevor Mallard was going through his Barry Manilow period.

            • mpledger 5.2.1.3.1.1
              16 April 2024 at 12:09 pm

              What drivers are these?

              The protests were nominally about the requirement for people to be vaccinated if they held jobs that faced the public aka "the mandates". And then it became a hodge-podge of diverse protests without any coherency and shadow protests from people trying to get publicity for their own, rather unpleasant, idiology.

              • Robert Guyton …
                16 April 2024 at 12:18 pm

                Adolescence and identity formation. Trauma there can manifest in many ways later on. Anger around being told what to do, especially regarding body-sovereignty, seems not to fade over time.

            • roblogic 5.2.1.3.1.2
              16 April 2024 at 1:46 pm

              I was commenting sincerely but it seems you aren't. Mockery is unhelpful.

              • Robert Guyton …
                16 April 2024 at 2:18 pm

                I too, am commenting sincerely and can't understand your response, if it was addressed to me – sometimes it's hard to tell with this format. If it's me you are addressing, I can say I'd never mock your comments because I believe them to be sincere and thoughtful. I mean, who could confidently decode 5.2.1.3.1.2 ???? Is that you? Is that me? Is that …? Who???

        • Cinder 5.2.1.4
          16 April 2024 at 11:14 am

          There have been Robert and I remember being the only person to object and request moderation after Sabine insisted that they needed to apologise to their family for "what they had done".

          Yep, yep, yep…

          Its all gone a bit Best Bets sister publication around here.

            • weka 5.2.1.4.1.1
              16 April 2024 at 11:36 am

              what is the point of that video? It's the second time you've posted it.

              • Robert Guyton …
                16 April 2024 at 11:59 am

                From the video's comments:

                "The best music to listen to being stuck in space together after unimaginable trauma"

          • weka 5.2.1.4.2
            16 April 2024 at 11:54 am

            One of the problems for people in refuse to use evidenced debate is that its really easy to point out where they are talking shite.

            What Sabine actually said,

            And fwiw, maybe maybe also at the very least acknowledge that your spouse, your kids, and your family and friends lost someone they thought they knew, married, had children with, and then you suddenly told them that that person don't exist and please call me Joanne. While this might was a great relieve for you, it was the end of the world for them. Just to be fair.

            https://thestandard.org.nz/what-is-gender/#comment-1832670

            For the people that understand the politics of trans widows, Sabine's comment makes sense.

            I did moderate in that conversation, but both the trans woman Joanne and Sabine had useful views to present. Joanne is great, they know how to hold their own. Sabine is also great, she brings in a strong style of honestly held belief that challenges other people's beliefs.

            That's what we do here, provide a space for robust debate and work through the issues.

        • Joanne Perkins 5.2.1.5
          16 April 2024 at 12:04 pm

          Hi Robert,

          Yes there has been at least one Trans person reading this site and I have commented on some of the anti-trans posts in the past but to be honest I don't generally because I am tired. One way or another I have been fighting these battles for most of my 67 years and every time it appears transpeople are beginning to make some progress someone comes along and blows it all to hell. As for those who comment on these posts, only Weka makes any attempt to treat transpeople as people rather than an enemies to be defeated and I am tired of it, so I just live my non agressive and hopefully positive life. It ain't easy to be honest

          • Robert Guyton 5.2.1.5.1
            16 April 2024 at 12:08 pm

            Thank you, Joanne – I had truly wondered how it might be.

          • Molly 5.2.1.5.2
            16 April 2024 at 12:17 pm

            "It ain't easy to be honest"

            We are all tired. [deleted] That's honesty. Not an insult.

            [your additional comment and my mod note both disappeared when I was putting you in the ban list and I think because you were editing the comment. For clarity, below is what was deleted – weka]

            Molly: Ah. Honesty is a problem for all it seems.

            [perhaps, but moderation and not being able to read the room are a problem for only a few. 1 day ban because I’m not willing to continually spend my time supervising people who should know better – weka]

            • weka 5.2.1.5.2.1
              16 April 2024 at 12:24 pm

              that’s the second time today I’ve had to moderate you. Please don’t make it three.

              In this case, it’s about the part of the policy that covers tone or language that has the effect of excluding others. JP was sharing personally and answering a question they are best qualified to answer. Your response was utterly unnecessary and can only be perceived as provocation.

              Everyone has their own idea about what an insult is, and sometimes it’s about timing and appropriateness as much as the words or one sided intent.

              • Drowsy M. Kram …
                16 April 2024 at 1:07 pm

                Everyone has their own idea about what an insult is…

                yes Agree 100% weka – you'd have to be a "flailing idiot" not to smiley

                When an Argument Gets Too Heated, Here’s What to Say
                [3 March 2016]
                If you go first in validating the importance of the debate and the value of the person you’re debating with, you will reduce defensiveness, keep things issue-focused, and greatly increase the speed with which you get to a mutually agreeable solution. Give it a try in your next argument.

                Want to avoid heated arguments? Try this technique before having a difficult conversation [9 Feb 2023]
                “And as it is the most generous souls who have most gratitude, it is those who have most pride, and who are most base and infirm, who most allow themselves to be carried away by anger and hatred.”
                – Descartes

                Wise words, imho – particularly "allow themselves". And agreeing to disagree.

                To “agree to disagree” is to resolve a conflict (usually a debate or quarrel) by having all parties tolerating but not accepting the opposing positions. It generally occurs when all sides recognize that further conflict would be unnecessary, ineffective or otherwise undesirable.

                “And now why should we not agree to differ, without either enmity or scorn?”

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agree_to_disagree

            • Shanreagh 5.2.1.5.2.2
              16 April 2024 at 12:59 pm

              I'm tired too Molly.

              As far as Women's issues is concerned I have have been fighting seriously since I first joined the PS when I took a case to the Public Service Commission on not being given access to the Public Servant on transfer allowances and pool housing as these were for bread-winners (it said this in the manual) and by definition also in the manual) breadwinners were male. I took a case for a review of policy of the Govt Super fund that only had options for a male with a dependent health-wise spouse and no options for a female with a dependent halth-wise spouse, that I had. My dad thought I was possibly exaggerating and when he read the policy etc said 'this is so discriminatory it will be changed soon'

              And dear reader it was changed in 1993 about 15 years after I had raised it

              I missed out on a job because 'what would I do out in the field if I needed to go to the loo?' My husband and I missed out on the entry into a ballot for a house/land in Northland as the powers that be decided, perhaps I did not know or realise I'd have to leave the PS. Doh. So men making decisions without asking the woman concerned and being paternal. People lower down in the pecking order told me about these decisions later.

              In the years since we have fought the same battles over and over again. They are more cunningly hidden/described now.

              We've been part (because we are women) of the idiot 'anti Jacinda because she is a female' league and now the league that wants to sacrifice women's rights to sport and safe spaces because, you know 'feels' for men who want to dress as females. /sarc.

              Having studied Womens Issues to a Stage 3 level many of the debates recently are evidence of:

              • the continued misogyny of some men
              • the sometimes uncritical/innate? support some men have for other men and what they want to do. (Something I've not found from women who do not hesitate to call you out if they feel you've missed a beat!)
              • the desire to suspend biology in the view that by holding a gender recognition certificate, dressed in the way they perceive a woman dresses whether accompanied by chemicals or surgery, men by some 'magick'/alchemy actually turn into women.

              So yes I'm tired too. Then I realise I'm in a long line of battle hardened women (mother/grandmother) in my own family who've fought.

            • weka 5.2.1.5.2.3
              16 April 2024 at 2:33 pm

              mod note.

          • Visubversa 5.2.1.5.3
            16 April 2024 at 1:34 pm

            Joanne – I am 6 years older than you and have been Lesbian for most of my adult life. In my younger days, trans people were very much part of the Gay community. At a time when sex between men was unlawful – "transing away the gay" was understandable. A few woman also attempted to become the men they thought they should be as they were attracted to other women.

            That kind of internalised homophobia should have gone out in the 1980's when same sex attraction became lawful for men and more widely accepted in society. We all worked very hard for that over a lot of years.

            These days – the rise of the postmodernist "queering" of society, and the emergence of "gender ideology" which denies even the existence of same sex attraction and maintains that even very young children have a "gender identity" which is entirely separate from biological reality and should take precedence over it, puts us all at risk.

            The demand of todays ideologists that everything should be subservient to the belief in a gendered soul has led to the sort of backlash where the force teaming of same sex attracted people with the rest of the "alphabet swamp" (most of whom are straight) endangers the social acceptance we worked so hard to attain.

            • Cinder 5.2.1.5.3.1
              16 April 2024 at 10:49 pm

              "At a time when sex between men was unlawful – "transing away the gay" was understandable."

              And how would you, a self confessed lesbian, know that? Or are going to type out some more of your amateur psychology? Am I allowed to speculate on why some lesbians dress "butch"? Can I engage in some cod psychology on the motivations of the Gender Critical movement? Is that OK? I have prepared some notes if it is OK.

              • "the rise of the postmodernist "queering" of society,"
              • "gender ideology" which denies even the existence of same sex attraction"
              • "maintains that even very young children have a "gender identity" which is entirely separate from biological reality and should take precedence over it"

              You have not provided a single piece of evidence for these statements which you continually make – You do have some stats right? Or an academic study? A peer reviewed paper perhaps? Some actual evidence and not just your assertions?

              Some weirdo's blog post where they make a word salad that resonates with you won't do. Nor will an individual Trans persons twitter post.

              So, as is the standard at The Standard I ask that you provide the Post Modern Trans Manifesto you are always talking of. The one which matches your claims above. The one which apparently dictates the lives of every Trans person and their allies.

              What is ridiculous is watching you constantly using the phrase gender ideology. It was coined by that great protector of women and children, the Roman Catholic Church:

              "The labelling of gender as an ideology was later incorporated into Vatican documents and displaced the ‘culture of death’ as the framework for understanding the threat posed by SRR. Ratzinger, first as the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and later as Pope Benedict XVI, had a central role in the adoption, circulation, and legitimation of the term ‘gender ideology’. He had already been exposed to feminist critiques and politics while in Germany during the 1980’s as he expressed in the Ratzinger Report (1985), which, for Case (2019) contains the main dimensions of what would later come to be called ‘gender ideology’."

              https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0037768620907561

    • Michael P 6.1
      16 April 2024 at 4:40 pm

      Speaking of tunnels it amazes me (but doesn't surprise me) that the Scandinavians and Germans can design and build an amazing 18km long underwater engineering marvel such as this for I think approx 10 billion euros,

      Whilst we get an estimated price of potentially up to $45 billion NZD (twice as much?) for a much shorter and nowhere near as good tunnel option for a second Auckland harbor crossing.

      • joe90 6.1.1
        16 April 2024 at 5:27 pm

        Because crossing the Waitemata, smack in the middle of an active volcanic field in an area exposed to deep tropical depressions, is just like crossing the Øresund strait.

        /

      • Hunter Thompson II 6.1.2
        16 April 2024 at 6:32 pm

        Having experienced a major traffic jam the other day on Auckland Harbour bridge, I sympathise with those who call for a second bridge.

        But where do the cars go once they make the crossing? NZTA will have to bulldoze many houses in suburbs each side of the harbour so traffic can get to an arterial route.

        Far better to avoid central Auckland altogether; it's only getting worse.

  7. roblogic 7
    16 April 2024 at 1:38 pm

    The left is eating itself while a far-right government pillages the commonwealth of Aotearoa unopposed. Sigh.

    • Robert Guyton 7.1
      16 April 2024 at 2:09 pm

      As predicted – what do you suggest?

      • roblogic 7.1.1
        16 April 2024 at 2:49 pm

        Keep holding the buggers to account instead of getting sucked into rabbit holes.

        • weka 7.1.1.1
          16 April 2024 at 2:57 pm

          send some relevant links my way (NZ based) and I'll see if I can do a post.

          • roblogic 7.1.1.1.1
            16 April 2024 at 3:33 pm

            "Labour was wasteful" So let's splash out on mega motorways, tunnels, and unaffordable tax cuts for landlords on the one hand

            But on the other "we are poor"

            Austerity, public service cuts, collapsing schools, removal of fair pay agreements, cancelled ferries, worse public transport, failing water services, higher costs all around for the working class

            The narratives are all haywire – a classic KGB technique to keep the masses confused

            • Traveller 7.1.1.1.1.1
              16 April 2024 at 3:44 pm

              Investment in transport infrastructure is neither 'splashing out' or 'wasteful' providing the investment has a viable business case.

              On the Wellington tunnel, the government asked NZTA to 'investigate a Long Tunnel option for Stage Highway 1 in Wellington'. That includes 'advice on the technical feasibility, cost, and funding and financing options for the proposal'. Government investigates 4km tunnel under Wellington | RNZ News

              That seems an appropriate approach, although as evidenced by your link above the project is opposed and supported by the usual suspects based on their particular self interest.

            • weka 7.1.1.1.1.2
              16 April 2024 at 4:03 pm

              dunno Rob, don't you think that's all dreadfully obvious? I don't think people are distracted by identity pol or infighting, so much as they just don't know how to act any more. I was pretty disappointed in the SS4C for similar reasons.

              • weka …
                16 April 2024 at 4:04 pm

                I mean how do we fight dirty politics, social media manipulation, the disintegration of trust in media, at a time when we can't practice solidarity? So yeah, fair point about the infighting.

              • roblogic …
                16 April 2024 at 10:40 pm

                Yes it is well travelled ground, I don't have any striking new angles, it's just dirty politics continued from the last National regime. There are scurrilous rumours around John Key (again) but not sure if it's worth digging up that stench again

  8. Robert Guyton 8
    16 April 2024 at 2:13 pm

    I'm being held in moderation – is this fair? Is there a justifiable reason? My comments are subject to decision by someone else, where everyone else has free rein/sovereinty to comment.

    • weka 8.1
      16 April 2024 at 2:22 pm

      I put you in premod because of your inability or unwillingness to follow moderation cues and it was taking up too much of my time dealing with that. It’s easier for mods to see the comments and deal with them before they appear on the front end. Most moderation comes down to saving moderator time.

      You are not the only one this happens to. There are currently four people in the premod list including yourself.

      No-one has free rein to comment as they like on TS (with the exception of Lynn). Everyone can be moderated. Most people moderate themselves.

      • Robert Guyton 8.1.1
        16 April 2024 at 2:29 pm

        So, for the moment, I'm hampered, like a horse that's forced to carry extra weight 🙂

        When might I be released from this impediment? Is it a matter or (your) discretion?

        Are there guidelines you follow, or is this a matter of Royal Assent?

        • weka 8.1.1.1
          16 April 2024 at 2:36 pm

          depends on who you think is royality. But generally moderators do what they do unless they grossly overstep the mark and then another moderator or admin will act. Sometimes we discuss each other’s moderations in the back end.

          I appreciate the extra weight metaphor, that’s what I mean when I talk about the moderator work load. Atm, it comes down to whether I think it’s more or less work for me to keep you in premod or let you out. You don’t make it easy though Robert.

    • ianmac 8.2
      16 April 2024 at 2:37 pm

      I like and look forward to all your commentary. And have never thought that you were offensive to anyone. Please keep 'em coming.

      • weka 8.2.1
        16 April 2024 at 2:49 pm

        he's not in premod for being offensive.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 8.2.2
        16 April 2024 at 6:06 pm

        Seconding that validation of the worth/value of comments made by Robert Guyton.

        A few of RG's comments might be considered tangential, opaque, cryptic, or otherwise 'challenging' (brain food, imho) – but 'offensive'? That's a stretch, although everyone has their own triggers and ideas/thresholds for what's offensive.

        I'd guess there are no (zero) blogs, political or otherwise, that employ democratic moderation, for obvious reasons. Maybe AI will come to the rescue, but I prefer the human touch – seems well-calibrated here, warts and all, and (magically) it's free.

        • weka 8.2.2.1
          16 April 2024 at 6:25 pm

          haha, not sure about the free bit tbh.

          btw, RG isn't in premod for being offensive. I don't even know what is meant by offensive here.

          • Drowsy M. Kram 8.2.2.1.1
            16 April 2024 at 10:04 pm

            Sorry weka – I meant free to me and many other users of (the most excellent) TS platform/blog – sincerely hope it's not costing you, or anyone else, too much.

            And a sincere thanks for the time and effort put in to keep the infrastructure and comments running smoothly – no doubt there are occasions that require frantic paddling below the surface!
            Re 'offensive', I was parroting ianmac, lazy creature that I am now smiley

  9. weka 9
    16 April 2024 at 2:56 pm

    Christ (so to speak). Same day as the mall mass murder, a bishop was stabbed by a 15 year old while giving a sermon. The police have named it a terrorist incident.

    Because the stabbing was streamed onto the internet, a crowd of hundreds of locals gathered outside the church demanding that the police hand over the 15 year old. Police had to bring in reinforcements before they could take him to hospital. Paramedics could also not leave.

    Now there are people on twitter saying, oh well, the bishop was a homophobe/Islamophobe/cooker, so, context.

    This is where we are at.

    • weka 9.1
      16 April 2024 at 2:56 pm

      content warning, there are multiple images and videos of the stabbing on social media, so take care.

    • roblogic 9.2
      16 April 2024 at 3:16 pm

      Yesterday's Bondi attacker was a white guy so "mental health", although some commentators were looking for a terrorism angle.

      Today's horrible stabbing looks like a hate crime by one unhinged individual, not a planned attack by a "terrorist" organisation.

      It certainly is indicative of social breakdown though

      • weka 9.2.1
        16 April 2024 at 6:43 pm

        Seems likely to me that the Bondi attacker was in the middle of a psychotic break or similar. Just from the reports of his mental health history, isolation, and what he had been doing before the attack.

        The police haven't said much about the church attacker, other than that he said Islamic words as he attacked. Could easily also be a mental health breakdown.

        But yeah, society is stretched to its limit now.

  10. roblogic 10
    16 April 2024 at 3:21 pm

    At the risk of further inflaming a hornet's nest, this thread is a wake-up call for feminists in America and other countries following them on the road to Christo-fascist Gilead

    As I was helping my wife put on a hospital gown, we believe she started to miscarry.

    That day is a traumatic blur.

    After we returned home from the hospital, we curled up on the sofa and cried together, silently, for hours.

    What I know now is, a D&C is a medical procedure — also known as an abortion.

    I now understand how abortion is healthcare.

    I also realize, now, we were actually lucky.

    We were lucky to live in a state where abortion in legal.

    We didn’t have to wait until my wife’s life was in imminent danger, or where sepsis irrevocably damaged her reproductive system.

    • weka 10.1
      16 April 2024 at 4:01 pm

      tbf, this GCF was talking about this in 2016 before Trump was elected. There were leftie men arguing Trump's not so bad, which was a major reason for my series of Trump's Not So Bad posts. We (the feminists) knew what was coming and lots of people didn't take us seriously.

      As for gender critical women now. The boat has sailed. There have been bitter fights online over this issue between GC women and lines drawn. The progressive feminists are outnumbered by the GC women who will do what it takes to protect women's sex based rights. For US women I expect some of them don't perceive the risk, others understand it very well and know that without winning the fight over sex we can't retain our abortion rights. It's not like if we all stopped the GC work that somehow things would work out. I learned the hard way that left wing men in particular will only support women's rights when it suits them. That's part of why so many women have so few fucks left to give (that, and the whole centre left choosing GII over women thing).

    • Shanreagh 10.2
      16 April 2024 at 5:17 pm

      Yes indeed.

      Just a little addition though a D & C is not necessarily thought of by lay people as an 'abortion' if performed to remove the remains of a non viable fetus/miscarriage. Tiny shifts of meaning/nuances make a difference. D & Cs are not only performed for miscarriages or abortions.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilation_and_curettage

      Abortions can be performed using the D & C technique and they can be performed using drugs.

      The point you make is absolutely taken that the law makers in the US 'crazy' states will of course be using the widest definition of what constitutes an abortion whereas in places where abortion is permitted conversations can take place with nuances/care appropriate depending on the circumstances, for instance a miscarrying woman would not expect a Dr to roll up and say 'we're going to give you an abortion'.

      The stories that came out of Ireland prior to 2018 with women dying of sepsis from retained products of miscarriages because Drs did not operate or mothers being forced to wait to birth spontaneously the child that everyone knew was dead plus facing sepsis. We don't want to go back to that type of regime.

      From what I have been reading of the situation in the US there are groups helping women travel to states that will carry out an abortion. These groups have formed much like the SOS (Sisters Overseas Service) when NZ had restrictive laws. These groups supported women to travel to Australia by finding $$$, flights, accomodation and hospitals.

  11. Robert Guyton 11
    16 April 2024 at 5:29 pm

    Snapshot:

    “I literally just got punched by some man on the sidewalk,” Brand said in the video. “He goes, ‘sorry,’ and then punches me in the head.”

    “What the hell is happening?” said Brand, who could not be reached for comment."

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/350247009/what-we-know-about-viral-tiktoks-saying-women-are-being-punched-nyc-streets

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