Open mike 16/05/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, May 16th, 2019 - 227 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

227 comments on “Open mike 16/05/2019 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Milly 1
    16 May 2019 at 7:20 am

    Wonder if Jacinda will use the opportunity to ask Macron about police brutality used against the Gilets Jeunes. Plenty to challenge about France’s abandonment of civil rights.

    • Robert Guyton 1.1
      16 May 2019 at 7:30 am

      Really? Do you really wonder that?

    • solkta 1.2
      16 May 2019 at 7:30 am

      At it early as always i see Ed. Important to get the first slot of the day though eh.

      • mauī 1.2.1
        16 May 2019 at 7:41 am

        That was completely unneccessary. Milly is commenting anonymously and has the right to do so.

        • Incognito 1.2.1.1
          16 May 2019 at 7:44 am

          Do you stand by this comment? I don’t like being treated like a fool, do you?

          • greywarshark 1.2.1.1.1
            16 May 2019 at 11:39 am

            What a funny start to the morning. maui you are hilarious, keep it up. It is good to have our own in-house comedians with in-house jokes. Promotes the feeling of togetherness.l

        • solkta 1.2.1.2
          16 May 2019 at 7:45 am

          As he was when he was Ed. I haven't broken any anonymity.

          • Dennis Frank 1.2.1.2.1
            16 May 2019 at 11:12 am

            You may be onto something. Someone who reveres Ed Miliband as their political icon, shape-shifting from usage of the christian name to a riff on the surname? Perhaps we'll see another shift into Bandit eventually?

          • greywarshark 1.2.1.2.2
            16 May 2019 at 11:41 am

            Was that Mr Ed the Talking Horse?

        • marty mars 1.2.1.3
          16 May 2019 at 7:57 am

          idiot, we are not idiots

          this deliberate 'pretend the opposite' approach is what has destroyed communities and people – good one you

      • bwaghorn 1.2.2
        16 May 2019 at 11:53 am

        Oh god please say it isnt so.

      • A 1.3.1
        16 May 2019 at 7:54 am

        WTF?

        (From link above)

        "In one instance, a beneficiary described to us how MSD obtained, from a telecommunications company, an intimate picture shared by that individual with a sexual partner. The photograph was then produced at an interview by MSD investigators seeking an explanation for it."

        • patricia bremner 1.3.1.1
          16 May 2019 at 6:24 pm

          This practise started in 2012. …and was continued by Rickards. Disgusting.

          The shocking figures..15000 had their privacy exposed by banks telcos and violence orders from the police as MSD tried to find partner fraud.

          How many were discovered?……300. A lesser number convicted. The snooping probably cost more than the fraud. MP Sepuloni says an investigation is underway. Time for some heads to roll I think. Rickards did not even apologise.

      • Cinny 1.3.2
        16 May 2019 at 8:04 am

        Question please, is this a result of what was going on under the prior government?

        All these inquiries are turning up some shocking results as to how some ministries/departments have been run prior to the change of government. Freaking disgusting, thank goodness for change.

        No wonder national were complaining about all the inquiries, they were scared of being shown up for the arseholes they are.

        Rather timely considering it’s anti bullying week.

        • Fireblade 1.3.2.1
          16 May 2019 at 8:33 am

          From the RNZ link.

          "Mr Rickard said the practice introduced in 2012, in response to the then National Government's approach of taking a harder line on benefit fraud and speeding up investigations"

          • Anne 1.3.2.1.1
            16 May 2019 at 10:35 am

            Mr Rickard is wrong.

            The practice began in the 1990s under the Winz leadership of one, Christine Rankin. I was one of those spied on in 1998 while on a DPB looking after my 90 year old mother who had dementia. She wasn't so demented she didn't realise what was going on though and the next time they appeared in their car she called me. When I went outside and stood staring at them they rapidly departed the scene. A letter to the local Winz chief ensured they never returned.They looked like cops in civvy clothing and I later learned that Benefit Fraud Squad was made up of perfed cops.

            When the Clark govt. came to power in 1999, the first thing they did was stop the practice. When the Key govt. took over they started it up again.

            Nothing new under the sun.

            • OnceWasTim 1.3.2.1.1.1
              16 May 2019 at 4:13 pm

              Eggsekly @ Anne.

              Apparently she'd attained fame and fortune by previously playing Bet Lynch in Coronation Street, (famous for her being a good 'ole sort, and her ear rings -including a set of suspended Twyford lavatories. Unclear whether they had the capability for a neo-liberal flush)

              She now devotes her time to the philanthropic endeavour. She also lives in hope of a career in talk-back radio to maintain her fame and relevance.

          • Cinny 1.3.2.1.2
            16 May 2019 at 12:44 pm

            Go figure.

            Thanks for your feedback Anne, dang that must have be a distressing time for yourself and your mum. Far out I’m glad things are changing.

            • Anne 1.3.2.1.2.1
              16 May 2019 at 4:36 pm

              I was more angry about the effect it had on my mother. I knew who was responsible for the false report, but decided it was not worth pursuing. She would have done it anonymously or she might have arranged for a friend to do it for her. She had done that before. Makes it hard to prove anything.

              What is pathetic about these social agencies is they act on these allegations without any recourse to the person/persons they are aimed at. It shows there is a culture within that encourages the staff to believe them without any recourse to the often innocent victims.

              That's pretty much what I told the local Winz chief and it worked. They steered clear of me after that.

        • patricia bremner 1.3.2.2
          16 May 2019 at 6:25 pm

          Yes it began in 2012. Cinny.

    • mauī 1.4
      16 May 2019 at 7:32 am

      Thank you Milly.

      • solkta 1.4.1
        16 May 2019 at 7:40 am

        Yous two really should get marries or somthin.

        • Robert Guyton 1.4.1.1
          16 May 2019 at 7:51 am

          Would a person using a male name as a pseudonym change to using a female one, ordinarily? I wonder why a person might do that? I'm not criticising, just wondering at the reason. In earlier times and elsewhere, I chose an insect as my nom de plume, as well as a large sea mammal, so I have a real interest in chosen names.

          • solkta 1.4.1.1.1
            16 May 2019 at 7:57 am

            i think you could pin a tail on it.

            My daughter invented my one when she was three. Not sure if she meant it to be gendered.

          • marty mars 1.4.1.1.2
            16 May 2019 at 7:58 am

            we all miss greenfly robert

            • Robert Guyton 1.4.1.1.2.1
              16 May 2019 at 8:00 am

              Inside every greenfly, there's another greenfly and inside that greenfly, another all waiting for the ideal conditions for re-emergence smiley

          • lprent 1.4.1.1.3
            16 May 2019 at 8:08 am

            I'm lazy. My pseudonym was originally my 6 character login for a stats course at Waikato University in 1979.

            I sometimes lean a trifle far towards functionality and reuse of code.

            However I do occasionally use AncientGeek when I'm testing at different privilege levels.

            • marty mars 1.4.1.1.3.1
              16 May 2019 at 8:09 am

              AncientGeek – cool term

              • AncientGeek …
                16 May 2019 at 8:13 am

                😈

                Umm.. I see that the search has fallen over again (damnit). I will have a look at it tonight.

                About to offski to work on the e-bike. Hoping it doesn't rain.

            • Andre 1.4.1.1.3.2
              16 May 2019 at 11:22 am

              Just FYI, last time I used the search a day or two ago, it also showed me results from the 2019 Moderation Post.

              Sadly for me, being a creepy voyeuristic kinda guy, I clicked on a couple but it wouldn't actually let me in to the post, tho.

              • lprent …
                16 May 2019 at 2:32 pm

                Thanks. It is meant to ignore private posts and pages including their comments….

                It really is a bit of a moving target for this search.

          • bwaghorn 1.4.1.1.4
            16 May 2019 at 12:00 pm

            In a funny conversation i got asked what my porn handle would be if i did porn . Bert Waghorn is what we came up with after a bit .

            • gsays 1.4.1.1.4.1
              16 May 2019 at 5:38 pm

              I thought the porn name method was: first name is the first family pet name you remember and second name is the name of the road or street name, where you grew up.

              Cookie North here.

            • McFlock 1.4.1.1.4.2
              16 May 2019 at 5:41 pm

              outstanding!

          • McFlock 1.4.1.1.5
            16 May 2019 at 5:46 pm

            "Jock McFlock" was a Scottification of a movie character I saw as a kid ("Jack Flack" I think it was).

            The rhyming appealed to me, and it's just a bit of my history that is me without it being obvious to anyone else.

    • Observer Tokoroa 1.5
      16 May 2019 at 8:38 am

      Hi Milly

      Just what are you going to do about the excessive crime committed here in New Zealand.

    • Adrian Thornton 1.6
      16 May 2019 at 10:29 am

      @ Milly , of course not, that wouldn't do any good for her 'political capital', as apparently (judging by NZ media coverage) that is the most important element of this whole exercise.

    • AB 1.7
      16 May 2019 at 2:03 pm

      Credit where it is due Millsy.

      She is by far the best 3rd-way politician we have seen by some distance. And although I privately believe that the 3rd-way is a doomed project, none of us knows the timescale of its demise. So I am very pleased to praise her for any good she achieves along the way.

  2. Sanctuary 2
    16 May 2019 at 7:51 am

    Four questions for the day if they interest anyone…

    1 – What is the moral significance (or even is there any) of being a New Zealander?

    2 – Do we owe more to our fellow Kiwis than we owe people of other countries?

    3 – In a global age, should we cultivate our national identities or aspire to an old school socialist international ethic of universal human concern?

    Answers on a back of a postcard, unless your name is BM or James in which case please write your reply on the back of a stamp with a crayon.

    • CLEANGREEN 2.1
      16 May 2019 at 8:48 am

      I lived in three other counties during my working life after being Auckland born in 1944, and have this to offer;

      1/ All my growing up in a egalitarian society in NZ made me proud as a Kiwi when i worked in other countries who had no egaliterian fabric. so yes I felt very privledged to be born in NZ'

      2/ We need to try and restore the egaliterian society was it was a far better society than the Neo-liberal model we have today.

      3/As past experence has taught us that today's bussiness model is not sharing our common wealth we need to reverse our model and return to when the best model showed us the way. 1948-1968 era when we were among the four best places to live.

    • Dennis Frank 2.2
      16 May 2019 at 10:37 am

      Excellent questions for thoughtful folk. Particularly the fourth! I suspect slower-witted readers will point out that it isn't there. That's the point. When doing zen philosophy, that which isn't evident is usually the key point.

      Unkind readers will be keen to suggest that Sanctuary can't count past three. Please don't. The more high-brow intellectual contributions to the Standard, the better.

      It's all about ethos, eh? Without wishing to slip too far into such deep water, I'd suggest our moral stance in applied nationalism constitutes a tradition of sorts, even prior to Lange's anti-nuclear stance, so the first answer is yes – but only when projected onto the global stage via political leadership as the PM has just done.

      I also go for yes to the second question. May seem somewhat patriotic, but `looking after your own' is what people do. Animals do it, why not us?

      As for the third question, my answer is both/and. We need to foster a universalist ethos, to enable peaceful coexistence. That's paramount. However I would support any non-braindead nationalism, using the rationale of biodiversity. Just like plants in a garden, the ecosystem flourishes when all organisms do their thing naturally. Nations function similarly in the global framework.

    • Adrian Thornton 2.3
      16 May 2019 at 11:02 am

      Good questions there, overall I absolutely believe that one of the core ideologies of any progressive movement or political party should be to energetically foster the belief thought out our country that all humans of every race, colour or country are of equal importance.
      Infact I think this should be taught to every child as a priority as young as possible.

      I don’t think nationalism need to be fostered much if at all, it will always exist on its own anyway, and doesn’t really need any encouragement.

      When I was at school during seventies I remember there was quite a substantial push in the curriculum in this direction.

      In our second hand book shop we always pick up the old school journals when we can find them, and they make quite interesting reading, most definitely a very universal egalitarian thing going on back then…it was a good thing to.

    • AB 2.4
      16 May 2019 at 2:24 pm

      1.) The moral significance of being a NZer is that some of us still want there to be such a moral significance. Our fabled egalitarianism long ago ceased having an economic component and retreated into the sphere of sport and casual social interactions. However the cultural memory is still there, and it's a place to build from.

      2.) Yes – the nation is still a useful idea because it is the largest scale on which we can practically deliver a properly functioning society.

      3.) Both

    • McFlock 2.5
      16 May 2019 at 5:51 pm

      1 – not sure about moral significance. But bloody good luck.

      2 – No, we don't owe more, but we can do more of what we owe. We can help people who are closer more than people who are farther away. We are also more likely to be able to gather from them an accurate idea of what they need.

      3 – We can be proud of our national and ethnic identities without belittling others, and we can do so while being proud citizens of earth, as well as of NZ.

  3. marty mars 3
    16 May 2019 at 8:00 am

    Nice animation with a serious story for those who can see it

    “This video from the Portuguese visualisation designers Pedro M Cruz and Penousal Machado charts the rise and fall of these four largest maritime empires, from 1776 and the American War of Independence, right up to 2009…”

    https://aeon.co/videos/colonialism-as-mitosis-the-rise-and-fall-of-empires-rendered-as-cell-division

    • solkta 3.1
      16 May 2019 at 8:16 am

      Cool. It could have also included how the United States carried on colonising territory after it split for the British Empire. It was tiny at the time of the revolution compared to today.

  4. OnceWasTim 4
    16 May 2019 at 8:02 am

    The answer to 4 is 42

    1 is there is none if it's founded on myths (such as being 100% pure, etc)

    2 is We (the "us") owe people from other countries as much if and when we've ripped them off – especially intentionally

    3 universal human concern (if only because we accept and appreciate support from elsewhere when needed – such as overseas support during natural disasters)

    oops, apologies, that’s in answer to Sancturay

  5. The Chairman 5
    16 May 2019 at 8:41 am

    The Christchurch Call

    The US cited freedom of expression and freedom of the press as reasons it would not be joining the agreement. Stating, promoting credible, alternative narratives was the best way to defeat terrorist messaging.

    More details here: https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/389297/tech-companies-and-17-govts-sign-up-to-christchurch-call

    • Cinny 5.1
      16 May 2019 at 12:48 pm

      USA talking about freedom of speech, lolololz.

      A friend lived in the states for 7 years he said the news over there was so shite. The only international news broadcast there covered topics in which the USA were directly involved. Censorship is alive and well in the USA.

      Thanks for the link TC.

    • Incognito 5.2
      16 May 2019 at 3:57 pm

      Their ‘war diplomacy’ is not as effective as it used to be but they still drone on about it.

    • Rosemary McDonald 6.1
      16 May 2019 at 10:12 am

      White men above a Certain Age dictate to women over womb use.

      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/14/alabama-abortion-ban-white-men-republicans

      The rise and rise of the Forced Birthers. (with credit to Sabine )

      • greywarshark 6.1.1
        16 May 2019 at 10:19 am

        Alabama is suddenly concerned about all people, to the extent even of the unborn, being given optimum treatment and goodwill. That would be a nice change.

      • joe90 6.1.2
        16 May 2019 at 10:30 am

        Of course Republicans who supported Roy Moore for senate aren't interested in protecting the rights and well being of women and children.

        https://twitter.com/AndyBCampbell/status/1128676577330462720

        • Sabine 6.1.2.1
          16 May 2019 at 10:57 am

          god obviously wanted these girls to be raped, he – god – obviously wanted the girls to be pregnant, and now these girls will be birthing these children.

          it mattes not that these children may be their siblings, or their cuzzies, it matters not that the birth of the child might cause infertility in the future due to a ruptured uterus or such, non of that matters.

          if god would not have wanted that child to have a baby god would have prevented the rape and pregnancy.

          right?

        • JohnSelway 6.1.2.2
          16 May 2019 at 11:13 am

          25 White old male republicans passed this without a single a single female representative among them.

          Fucking atrocious

    • One Two 6.2
      16 May 2019 at 10:24 am

      Joe, you denigrate women / mothers regularly when you use derogatory terminologies to describe a women mothers right of choice to say No to forced medication for their children

      …in using derogatory terminologies and abusive commentary towards women / mothers in that context… you are actively arguing against yourself on the abortion issue and a womens right to choose…

      Are you pro choice …or not ?

      Do you understand ?

      • joe90 6.2.1
        16 May 2019 at 10:34 am

        Oh, you're here. With pinkies and a full tub of lube, of course.

        • greywarshark 6.2.1.1
          16 May 2019 at 10:37 am

          The stern eye of One Two is passed over all input on this blog! Take note, all t's will be crossed. What a tit.

          • One Two 6.2.1.1.1
            16 May 2019 at 10:54 am

            What a tit.

            Why would you insult someone for asking a questions about an obvious hypocritical position which joe seems comfortable to continue on with?

            What was it about the query to Joe which out of place, IYO ?

            • greywarshark 6.2.1.1.1.1
              16 May 2019 at 11:19 am

              Why do you always end up with a question you vacuous twerp?

              • One Two …
                16 May 2019 at 11:27 am

                Why do you always end up with a question you vacuous twerp?

                You just doubled down with another insult…that is uncalled for, gw..

                The original question was to Joe…you had no reason to involve yourself, but you chose to do so…with an insult..

                You then doubled down and have used another insult.

                Two insults on the back of a query that was nothing to do with you…

                Are you ok?

          • marty mars 6.2.1.1.2
            16 May 2019 at 10:57 am

            yep he's a real klingon around Uranus all right – proper naughty

            • Adrian Thornton 6.2.1.1.2.1
              16 May 2019 at 11:15 am

              Cheers for that marty , needed a bit of a giggle this morning.

            • greywarshark 6.2.1.1.2.2
              16 May 2019 at 11:22 am

              Channel Bee That'll bee the place for me when reality gets too fantastical!

        • One Two 6.2.1.2
          16 May 2019 at 10:56 am

          Are you pro choice for women …or not ?

          It is a simple question, joe.

          • Tuppence Shrewsbury 6.2.1.2.1
            16 May 2019 at 11:16 am

            Joe was commenting on the Jim Crow laws, forcing segregation and how this applies to the appalling move by the alabama legislature to take away womens right to choose to keep a child, even if forced on them by rape.

            That you've come in your high horse and tried to attack Joe for pointing out the abhorrence of this law shows your base level misogyny when you use it to score internet points.

            Trying to equate choice on vaccination and choice on abortion, especially by rape, is vile. Your comprehension skills are sorely lacking on any subject. take a day off fuckwit

            • One Two 6.2.1.2.1.1
              16 May 2019 at 11:35 am

              Trying to equate choice on vaccination and choice on abortion, especially by rape, is vile

              What is up with you men…

              Pro choice for women is not …when a man decides a woman is allowed to have a choice depending on the subject matter. The subject matter is irrelevant when is comes to hypocrisy.

              Can yo understand that simple concept or not?

              Joe who is a man exhibits an extremely hypocritical and misogynistic position in choosing to support a womans right to choice for an abortion

              But dengrates, abuses and insults women regarding the choice to not force medicate

              The issue is womans right to choice .

              You men cn't seem to understand that simple concept.

              • The Al1en …
                16 May 2019 at 11:50 am

                Joe is correct in supporting a woman's right not to have to remain pregnant for nine months, then give birth to a child she may neither want or be in a position to care for, let alone having to deal with the emotional bombardment of being forced by the state to give birth resulting from the act of rape.

                Joe is correct for calling out dumb twats who believe the type of crap you peddle about vaccinations and immunisation against preventable diseases.

                The two are so far removed, to use one as a weapon to attack another contributor, just shows how out of touch, devious and disingenuous and not to be taken in good faith you really are.

                • marty mars …
                  16 May 2019 at 11:59 am

                  yep that's strike 3 by my count…

                • One Two …
                  16 May 2019 at 12:00 pm

                  dumb twats

                  You, a man just referred to mothers (who are all women) as dumb twats

                  That is a bigoted attack you have produced in defense of another man.

                  Against women.

                  • The Al1en …
                    16 May 2019 at 12:02 pm

                    As you well know, there are also dumb twat fathers (who are all men) making the same stupid fucktard decision, too 😉

                    • JohnSelway …
                      16 May 2019 at 12:07 pm

                      About 11 years ago now I joined and was one of the earliest users of the website http://www.rationalwiki.org and helped with much of the content and development of the site and its policies

                      I helped develop some of the strategies we needed deal with trolls and we came up with a system called 'vandal brake'. It could be applied to problematic users or trolls and allowed them to only make one edit every 30mins until the troll either got bored or stopped trolling.

                      Would be handy to apply to someone like One Two

                    • lprent []
                      16 May 2019 at 2:41 pm

                      It'd be a nice feature.. I wonder.if anyone wrote a plugin for wordpress.

                      Currently I can either ban or manually accept with probation. The latter is too time intensive.

                      An interesting way of doing it as well if we can automate it.

                      However I would anticipate that the usual response will be to write longer comments with more links.

                    • One Two …
                      16 May 2019 at 12:11 pm

                      Fathers are not the target of the abortion laws.

                      Woman are.

                      Woman are also the target of bigoted abuse expressed by men on this site.

                      Including yours.

                    • The Al1en …
                      16 May 2019 at 12:17 pm

                      Of course fathers aren't the subject of abortion laws, but they are sometimes responsible for making shit decisions about vaccinations.

                      Why, apart from your obvious, blinkered, dog with a bone logic, do you think they are linked?

                    • marty mars …
                      16 May 2019 at 12:18 pm

                      bring back the bold, bring back the bold…

                    • The Al1en …
                      16 May 2019 at 12:24 pm

                      @JS

                      12 is nothing to worry about. Sure they're oxygen thieving on an industrial scale, but the harsh reality is they're so out of touch they're way up in the grandstand throwing vegan hotdogs on to the field of play – All too easy to swerve around or kick in to touch.

              • Tuppence Shrewsbury …
                16 May 2019 at 12:09 pm

                I'll denegrate anyone who refuses to vaccinate. man. woman. apache helicopter. I'm very much an equal opportunist in that respect. very progressive. the most progressive actually.

                And i'll denegrate anyone who takes away a womens right to make her own decisions about her uterus, what goes in and comes out.

                I'll also denegrate any idiot who thinks the two issues are the same and that if you believe in one set of choice options you have to provide the same.

                Hitching your vile anti-vax program to the abortion cause shows a pathological intellectual dishonesty

                • halfcrown …
                  16 May 2019 at 12:26 pm

                  +200% Tuppence

                • Anne …
                  16 May 2019 at 6:48 pm

                  Ditto

                  • One Two …
                    16 May 2019 at 7:05 pm

                    I wouldn't have thought that incitement to aggression against women and parents was something you would be in favour of, Anne…

                    Your endorsement of TS's comment indicates that you are a supporter of bigoted aggression being incited against women and men.

                    When a commentator, obviously a woman, who numerous times has repeated the story of harm which was apparently done to your family by state agencies…

                    Endorses incitement to harm others…well…You should be rethinking your perspectives I would suggest.

                    • Anne …
                      16 May 2019 at 8:24 pm

                      Get your facts correct. The "state' as you call it did nothing to members of my family. An individual made false allegations about me over the years and a small cabal of idiot P.S.managers believed them.

                      Now shut up and p**s off. Preferably permanently.

                    • One Two []
                      16 May 2019 at 8:34 pm

                      Good on you for clarifying that Anne…

                      Your endorsement of extremely violent and aggressive bigotry is now , undisputed…

                      I highly doubt it is who you are but my goodness you should reassess your perspective…

                      Endorsing harm upon others via support of violent aggressive and bigoted commentary…against women, men and children…

                      You're an elderly lady who should be better than that..much better…

                      Perhaps you are not able to grasp just what it is you've done in saying ditto…

                      There is no doubt in what you have done there.

                • One Two …
                  16 May 2019 at 7:03 pm

                  I'll denegrate anyone who refuses to vaccinate. man. woman. apache helicopter. I'm very much an equal opportunist in that respect. very progressive. the most progressive actually.

                  Despite the millions of vaccine damaged, injured and killed…you would seek to incite harm against that community using bigoted aggression

                  And i'll denegrate anyone who takes away a womens right to make her own decisions about her uterus, what goes in and comes out.

                  Affirming an angry and aggressive disposition to incite harm through bigotry

                  I'll also denegrate any idiot who thinks the two issues are the same and that if you believe in one set of choice options you have to provide the same.

                  • Further bigotry and incitement to harm others
                  • The two subject are inextricably linked. It is about the right of choice. Your pretence they are not alters nothing factual

                  Hitching your vile anti-vax program to the abortion cause shows a pathological intellectual dishonesty

                  Your aggressive bigotry is the pathological you're so desperately reaching out for…

                  • higherstandard …
                    16 May 2019 at 7:06 pm

                    Have you put a submission in to PHARMAC yet Phil ?……. they need to know about these vaccines …….after all none are as informed as you on the science……….eh ?

                  • Bazza64 …
                    16 May 2019 at 7:30 pm

                    "Despite the millions of vaccine damaged, injured and killed" no evidence ever posted for this, clearly a hysterical claim.

                    https://thespinoff.co.nz/science/24-04-2019/i-used-to-be-an-anti-vaxxer/

                    An interesting read, about someone who blamed their health problems on vaccines & then realised how wrong they were. Suspect One Two eats junk food, gets little exercise & blames vaccines for his/her marginal health.

          • greywarshark 6.2.1.2.2
            16 May 2019 at 11:23 am

            Trouble is the answer is too complex for simple people like you One Two.

      • Sabine 6.2.2
        16 May 2019 at 11:05 am

        its quite simple,

        you don't want to vaccinate your children cause …..(insert what ever reason you might have) ok, your choice.

        but,

        you don't send your kid to school unless you have a written letter by a qualified doctor that states that your child is now no longer sick.

        you don't leave the house with your sick child to go to a shop ( i had to kick out a women with her daughter covered in pustules – but she is no longer contagious – fuck you women i don't give a shit take your kid home and stay there until she is clear or you produce a doctors certificate that she is clear now)

        you don't force your choice onto others, cause that is not pro-choice that is just bullshitty, arrogant and for some people it can be deadly.

        • One Two 6.2.2.1
          16 May 2019 at 11:50 am

          More and better education is required in many areas, I agree.

          As you are the only woman who has replied and affirmed that right to choice is not subject dependent.

          It is an absolute for woman and must remain so.

          Why men on this site would have a selectivity problem with womans rights to choice is up for debate.

          But it is a primary indicator of the core problem woman are faced with.. through the prejudice of men.

          • Sabine 6.2.2.1.1
            16 May 2019 at 12:08 pm

            no men like joe don't have an issue with 'choice'. as far as anti vaccers go that is men and women, and you are simply being a simpleton at the kindest and an outright liar at the worst insisting that anti vaccers are only women. I know quite a few men that insist in that shit too. But then it is still women who do most of hte house keeping and child rearing. So that might factor in your false representation of facts.

            But only women get pregnant, only women are forced to carry these pregnancies to term, only women are negatively affected by motherhood – and yes i insist negatively affected in terms of income, career options, housing choices, retirement benefits, overall health and all that jazz. And this happens despite the fact that women the world over have birthed all 8 billion of us and continue to happily birth their wanted and loved children. Cause frankly, no one really gives a shit about the wellbeing of women and children.

            so you simply want a reason to insult Joe, and you choose the most stupid thing on this planet to do so.

            Cause my right to choose is my right, but i can't and should not ever be allowed morally, legally or any ohter way to force my choice onto you, your lifelyhood, your believe system, your financial well being. And that is what these turdid fuckwits in the United States are doing to their female population.

            Forcing a rape victim to carry the resulting pregnancy to term is torture, emotional physical and financial. Forcing a rape victim – a child – to carry a pregancy term should fall under child abuse and child endangerment as most little girls bodies are not capable of birthing a child without damage to her body. Forcing a women to carry her sibling, her cuzzie, her brothers child to term and then be potentially and literally responsible for what ever comes out of her womb – with all hte resulting abnormalites that often present with children conceived in incest – is torture, cruel and unusual punishment. Forcing a women to carry a pregnancy to term – even if not viable because like in South America doctors will not help you anymore for fear of prison sentences should be criminal. Allowing women and little girls to die for hte fucked up believe that this is womens lot and god wanted, is simply inhuman.

            I want you to think about that, and i would like for you to remember to never come to my business with your un-vaccinated child if she/he is sick, cause i will tell you to go and fuck off home until she/he is healthy again and not a risk to society.

            • JohnSelway 6.2.2.1.1.1
              16 May 2019 at 12:16 pm

              "… cause i will tell you to go and fuck off home until she/he is healthy again and not a risk to society. .."

              You just won 100 Internets with that comment

            • One Two 6.2.2.1.1.2
              16 May 2019 at 12:21 pm

              no men like joe don't have an issue with 'choice'.

              Best to let joe explain his position in that.

              as far as anti vaccers go that is men and women, and you are simply being a simpleton at the kindest and an outright liar at the worst insisting that anti vaccers are only women.

              Except that is not what I have been saying…nor is it what I am saying.

              Woman (mothers) are the primary defenders of their children in the discussions regarding parental choice over their children. Of course there are also fathers involved…but that is not the core issue…and you should well know that…

              The woman / mothers are the primary target of the abuse on all sides of that discussion everywhere in the world…including all the mens comments here…

              The woman are turning up around the nations to the forced medication hearings, and the women are being attacked in the media for it.

              Joe (and other men here) is regular and repeat abusers of those who seek to protect their children and defend the rights to bodily autonomy and parental choice..

              The overwhelming majority … are women / mothers.

              And you have just defended, therefore condoned every insulting abusive and bigoted comment from men on this site, which have been aimed at the primary target….

              Women.

              • marty mars …
                16 May 2019 at 12:39 pm

                onetwosplaining – now I've seen it all…

              • joe90 …
                16 May 2019 at 12:55 pm

                I’ve never once opined on anyone's right to choose to vaccinate, or not. If not, I'll call them fucking idiots.

                But I’ll always sneer at, and denigrate, bloviating sophists like yourself while you persist in peddling lies, half-truths and misdirection in your quest to actively undermine trust in public health initiatives that have all but eliminated a majority of communicable diseases that historically caused so much pain and suffering.

                • One Two …
                  16 May 2019 at 3:31 pm

                  I'll call them fucking idiots.

                  Despite having the gaping flaws in your position exposed in no uncertain terms…

                  Why would you continue to throw insults when your position has been shown to be factually and scientifically, incorrect.

                  It speaks to who you are as a man that you would continue to insult and abuse , just to what…make yourself feel better?

                  Yeah, except it doesn't work..eh.

                  • JohnSelway …
                    16 May 2019 at 3:48 pm

                    " Why would you continue to throw insults when your position has been shown to be factually and scientifically, incorrect. "

                    Err, that's exactly what you do

                    • One Two …
                      16 May 2019 at 4:12 pm

                      No , John… it is not exactly what I do.

                      The aggression, anger insults, abuse, bigotry, misogyny and incitement to harm of others…

                      Begins.. and ends… with you guys.

                      The commentary speaks for itself.

                    • JohnSelway …
                      16 May 2019 at 4:15 pm

                      The bigotry and misogyny is all in your head. The insults come because you spout such nonsense before accusing other of bigotry and misogyny.

                      No one has incited harm to others.

                      It's all down to your mammoth persecution complex

            • One Two 6.2.2.1.1.3
              16 May 2019 at 12:29 pm

              I want you to think about that, and i would like for you to remember to never come to my business with your un-vaccinated child if she/he is sick, cause i will tell you to go and fuck off home until she/he is healthy again and not a risk to society.

              So many angry assumptions in there.

              Keep endorsing the misogynists on the site… you know .. the same types you have been rallying against for so many years here…

              It undermines every comment you have ever made regarding the patriarchy.

        • Rosemary McDonald 6.2.2.2
          16 May 2019 at 11:58 am

          you don't leave the house with your sick child to go to a shop ( i had to kick out a women with her daughter covered in pustules – but she is no longer contagious – fuck you women i don't give a shit take your kid home and stay there until she is clear or you produce a doctors certificate that she is clear now)

          So, visible signs of disease….'fuck you women i don't give a shit…etc…'

          This should help you enforce your rules….I believe it comes in a handy wall chart. wink

          https://www.healthed.govt.nz/resource/infectious-diseases

          • One Two 6.2.2.2.1
            16 May 2019 at 12:06 pm

            Yeah I said in my reply to Sabine, I agree that more education is required.

            The bigoted and misogynistic responses of the men on this site in defense of another mans deeply misogynistic opinions…

            Should be a disturbing reminder to any woman who might be reading those comments, as to what woman are up against.

            • Sabine 6.2.2.2.1.1
              16 May 2019 at 12:33 pm

              Men and women are anti vaccers.

              AS for hte signs, i am old enough to remember the signs, the misery, the side effects and all that shit. I have no use for Antivaccers, by they men or women. Don't give a flying squirrel about them.

              • One Two …
                16 May 2019 at 12:36 pm

                anti vaccers.

                You are part of a problem in using a bigoted slogan to denigrate other human beings.

                Primarily mothers.

                In so doing your position is on a par with the legislators who seek to ban abortions.

                • marty mars …
                  16 May 2019 at 12:41 pm

                  wow – so much for being an ally for women – unbelievable.

                  • The Al1en …
                    16 May 2019 at 12:44 pm

                    Yeah, fake rants about misogyny for effect and then bullies a woman all over the forum 🙄

                  • One Two …
                    16 May 2019 at 3:15 pm

                    wow – so much for being an ally for women

                    Using bigoted slogans applies to all those who use…

                    If I were to be selective in calling that out, it would be hypocritical, as well as sexist if I were not able to call out women.

                    Are you suggesting that only men can be called out for bigotry?

                • JohnSelway …
                  16 May 2019 at 12:44 pm

                  Anti-Vaxxer is a legitimate term. That it offends you (for some reason – you are anti-vaccination. Or 'Anti-vaxxer' for short) is of no ones concern

                  • One Two …
                    16 May 2019 at 3:52 pm

                    Anti-Vaxxer is a legitimate term. That it offends you (for some reason – you are anti-vaccination. Or 'Anti-vaxxer' for short) is of no ones concern

                    • It is a manufactured term design to incite aggression against others. The term is weaponized at both ends.
                      • It is seized upon by those who in some cases will be aware of the harm they are committing through using such labels
                      • And used by those who simply parrot what they are told to say in the media, while not pausing to consider the harm they are inciting through use of the term
                    • As is observable by the outright aggression in abusive, bigoted and therefore harmful comments which are primarily by men, but also by woman.
                      • No remorse or backing down from the anger…only more comments containing further abuse…and stated written intent to continue committing and inciting harm against others…

                    It does not offend me.

                    But it is a deeply offensive and harmful terminology that through it use and is propagated by those whose language closely reflects ,the very worst for which humanity has to offer..

                    • JohnSelway …
                      16 May 2019 at 3:55 pm

                      You are anti-vaccination so you are an anti-vaxxer.

                      That you don't like it is irrelevant. It is an accurate description

                • Tuppence Shrewsbury …
                  16 May 2019 at 12:48 pm

                  absolutely no correlation except to your sick fantasy of being the protector of all women as long as they choose to have sick kids.

              • Rosemary McDonald …
                16 May 2019 at 12:51 pm

                but she is no longer contagious – fuck you women i don't give a shit take your kid home and stay there until she is clear or you produce a doctors certificate that she is clear now)

                Sabine…three questions.

                1. Wild assumption here, based on your name that you a a woman…are you a feminist?

                2. Do you understand that the majority of infectious diseases out there in the world have no vaccine?

                3. Does your 'medical certificate' rule apply to visible infections (it would be hard work to make the leap from 'spots' to hand borne infections like norovirus etc…maybe later eh?) for which there are no vaccines available?

                • Sabine …
                  16 May 2019 at 1:59 pm

                  this is my given name, Sabine – i am literally named after a bunch of women raped by invading men after they killed all the men and boys.

                  Any thing i said made you think i am not aware of illness and the likes? BTW i lost my reproductive organs to the Human papillomaviruses for which now luckily a vaccine exists, so that other young women can have their children that they want.

                  No because you can’t get aids without sex or blood transfusion. SO i would exempt sufferes from aids/hepatitis etc.

                  i hope you find that tree, you seem to be looking for it.

                  • Rosemary McDonald …
                    16 May 2019 at 2:37 pm

                    So you'd be telling all women with children to 'fuck off out of your shop' because most of the infectious diseases on the handy wee list I linked to have no visible signs to indicate the person is infectious.

                    The point I am trying to make Sabine is that you simply cannot tell just by looking at a child whether it is carrying an infection or not.

                    The benefit of chicken pox is (from a non sufferer's point of view) is that by the time the kid is feeling well enough to leave the comfort of home and embark into what is obviously hostile territory the pox, whilst still looking unsightly to the uneducated eye, have dried up and are no longer a threat…

                    On the other hand, a perfectly well looking person can wander in carrying norovirus and potentially infect others.

                    Vaccines can be of great benefit…but are certainly not a panacea.

                    • Sabine …
                      16 May 2019 at 2:50 pm

                      yes i would. because they have taken a choice to not vaccinate.

                      and i have taken a choice to provdide a save environment for all of my customers that may not be able to make that choice because their kids are too young to be immunised or they are ill and can't be immunised.

                      Choices, we all make them, and in the end of the day we have to assume the choices that we make. I can live with that. What i could not live with is that my customer – who after many many years of trying to conceive finally has that one child that she will have, would get ill of a preventable disease – maybe with long lasting effects or worse death – because one Anti vaccer Mum parades her child about town because she got antsy at home with her sick child and got bored

                      Trees, Rosemary. There are a lot of trees. Find one. Sit underneath it and enjoy the sunshine.

          • Cinny 6.2.2.2.2
            16 May 2019 at 12:56 pm

            A dear friend, Brookie, whose son has been suffering from cancer since he was little did a piece in the paper about said subject the other week, super proud of her.

            https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/112356935/mum-of-cancer-boys-immunisation-plea-to-reduce-infection-risk

            • Rosemary McDonald 6.2.2.2.2.1
              16 May 2019 at 1:26 pm

              This I understand. My man had chemo for leukaemia back in 2010 he was left completely neutropenic for days. Even when he got over the horrible chest infection he caught from a swathe of whanau who refused to leave the immuno-compromised ward after a relative died and was finally allowed home we still had to be very careful while his immune system recovered with the help of the hamster juice. There were two major areas of concern…gastro bugs, which fell a large number of immuno compromised and strep and staph infections. None of which can be vaccinated against.

              In the real world Cinny, and back when my kids were little, diseases like measles, mumps, chicken pox etc made the sufferer feel so crook that home was invariably the best place. I guess that's natures way of containing outbreaks.

            • joe90 6.2.2.2.2.2
              16 May 2019 at 1:37 pm

              Thread.

              https://twitter.com/JennyfrmthBlog/status/1127901517229506561

              First off, YES, I was properly vaccinated as a child! However, I have rheumatoid arthritis (an auto-immune disease) and in order to be able to walk and function normally I take medications that suppress my immune system [2/14]

              The good news is these medicines keep me feeling good most of the time. But the bad news is they increase my risk of serious infection. And with more and more people not getting vaccinated lately, immunosuppressed folks like me are especially at risk [3/14]

              https://tttthreads.com/thread/1127901517229506561.html

              • Sabine …
                16 May 2019 at 2:10 pm

                god i remember mumps and the sometimes resulting deafness. This was a fear all the mums had at the time.

                Is it serious?

                In most children, mumps is pretty mild. But it can cause serious, lasting problems, including:

                • Meningitis (swelling of the tissue covering the brain and spinal cord)
                • Deafness (temporary or permanent)
                • Encephalitis (swelling of the brain)
                • Orchitis (swelling of the testicles) in males who have reached puberty
                • Oophoritis (swelling of the ovaries) and/or mastitis (swelling of the breasts) in females who have reached puberty

                In rare cases, mumps is deadly.

                How does mumps spread?

                Mumps can spread through the saliva or mucus from the mouth, nose, or throat of an infected person when he or she:

                • coughs, sneezes, or talks.
                • shares items, such as cups or eating utensils, with others.
                • touches objects or surfaces with unwashed hands that are then touched by others.

                Mumps can spread before swollen glands appear and up to 5 days afterward.

                • gsays …
                  16 May 2019 at 7:28 pm

                  To paint a clearer picture.

                  From the immunisation advisory centre:

                  “

                    Viral (mumps) meningitis occurs in up to 15% of mumps cases, long term consequences are very rare

                  • Temporary deafness to high frequency sounds occurs in 4 in 100 cases. Profound and permanent deafness is rare, usually on one side, and occurs in 1 in 15,000 cases
                  • Orchitis (inflamed testicle), usually one sided, occurs in 20-25% of post-pubertal males. Oophoritis (inflamed ovary) occurs in 5% of post-pubertal females. Sterility occurs rarely
                  • Encephalitis (brain inflammation) occurs in around 1 in 6,000 cases
                  • The overall case fatality rate from mumps is about 1.8 per 10,000 cases

                    • ”

                  Condom use is effective in preventing the spread of papillomaviruses.

              • One Two …
                16 May 2019 at 4:03 pm

                You've been explained to that the mumps vaccine is failing.

                So why would you continue to such post links which seek only to illustrate the vaccine failure…

                Which is what that link is actually about.

                Vaccine failure.

                • JohnSelway …
                  16 May 2019 at 4:05 pm

                  "You've been explained to that the mumps vaccine is failing. "

                  Citation needed

                  • One Two …
                    16 May 2019 at 4:13 pm

                    Joe already provided one.

                    Edit: Stop asking for citations which have already been provided.

                    You’re not reading the comments…so you’re not interested in the subject matter…

                    Which begs the question…what are you actually doing in this discussion ?

                    • JohnSelway …
                      16 May 2019 at 4:17 pm

                      I don't care what Joe said – I am asking YOU for a citation that the mumps vaccine is a failure because Joe’s link doesn’t say anything about the mumps vaccine being a failure.

                      So citation needed still

                    • One Two []
                      16 May 2019 at 4:24 pm

                      You don't care what anyone says…

                      You're only here for the cheap thrills you get from being involved in bigotry and inciting harm against others through abuse and use of insults..

                      Makes you feel more of a tough guy…

                      All very toxic.

                      Run along, selway…

                    • JohnSelway …
                      16 May 2019 at 4:24 pm

                      So no citation?

                      You made the claim – back it up or shut the fuck up

                    • One Two []
                      16 May 2019 at 4:36 pm

                      You're such a shouty online tough guy…

                      That must be immensely satisfying for you…

                      Citations have been provided in previous threads…

                      You don't understand the content then…and you won't now…

                      Stop asking bro…it's been provided…you won't be getting any more…

                    • JohnSelway …
                      16 May 2019 at 5:20 pm

                      You said the mumps vaccine is failing. The only reference you used to support it was Joe’s link which you mustn’t have read because it doesn’t say what you think it says.

                      Can you support that claim? Vaguely referencing other threads is not a citation. If you can't show it then you don't know it. You can either support your claims or not. If you can’t then shut the fuck up until you can

                    • One Two []
                      16 May 2019 at 6:54 pm

                      And I'm saying it again…because it is…

                      first off, YES I was properly vaccinated as a child…

                      Vaccine failure.

                      Emotional propaganda isn't something you nor J90 could recognise…

                      Joe could link to vaccinate damage or vaccine death articles…but he doesn't..

                      Because even though he views such articles online regularly…he refuses to acknowledge them…

                      So he posts links which he believes are honouring his brother…when actually what joe is doing is achieving the complete opposite…

                      Quite likely harming his brother…

                    • JohnSelway …
                      16 May 2019 at 7:08 pm

                      Are you using Joe's link to support your claim that "that the mumps vaccine is failing "?

                      Because that is not what it says and it does not support your claim that that the mumps vaccine is failing

                      And YOU should be linking vaccine damage or vaccine death articles…because it’s YOUR claim.

                      You are not very good at this are you?

                      Again – what evidence do you have that the mumps vaccine is failing?

                    • One Two []
                      16 May 2019 at 7:28 pm

                      I'm sure you have an explanation for that statement then…

                      Because that statement absolutely says…vaccine failure..

                      Off you go…explain it?

                      I'm sure you can link to the evidence showing immuno compromised being infected by others…right?

                      While you're searching for that evidence…look up the vaccine failure rates and mumps fraud..

                      A useless vaccine which 100% vaccinated cohorts have still contacted mumps.

                      Run along selway…

                    • marty mars …
                      16 May 2019 at 7:32 pm

                      Yeah where is the evidence one two? Put it up or shut up.

                    • One Two []
                      16 May 2019 at 7:39 pm

                      yeah where is the evidence one two? Put up or shut up..

                      selway?

                      Evidence.

                      All over this site…and the mainstream news sites online..

                    • JohnSelway …
                      16 May 2019 at 7:36 pm

                      One person does not a failure make. The link to the person in question supports vaccines but given her own highly personal medical conditions she is far more likely to contract something like mumps despite being vaccinated and goes on to support vaccinations. 1 person contracting mumps does not equal “the mumps vaccine is failing”. It’s like you seeing a bird with one leg and make the statement “all birds have one leg”.

                      This does not support your argument that the mumps vaccine is a failure.

                      A useless vaccine which 100% vaccinated cohorts have still contacted mumps.

                      Citation needed.

                      “You’ve been explained to that the mumps vaccine is failing. “

                      Citation still needed

                    • One Two []
                      16 May 2019 at 7:45 pm

                      One person properly vaccinated…

                      Undeniable from the article

                      The same person with mumps.

                      Again…undeniable..

                      Based on the evidence Joe linked to that is 100% vaccine failure rate.

                      A small cohort..but evidence has been provided…

                      Buy the guy using the link as emotional propaganda…

                      You guys are really not up to this at all…

                    • JohnSelway …
                      16 May 2019 at 7:48 pm

                      Wow…are you seriously using 1 person to support the claim the mumps vaccine is an entire failure based on the sample size of…..1

                      That is not evidence. That is the exact same argument as "I saw a black dog therefore all dogs are black"

                      A useless vaccine which 100% vaccinated cohorts have still contacted mumps.

                      Citation needed.

                      “You’ve been explained to that the mumps vaccine is failing. “

                      Citation still needed

                    • One Two []
                      16 May 2019 at 7:51 pm

                      I'm using the evidence joe provided…against you both…

                      You don't like it…then pick your level up selway…

                      One failure = failure.

                      Check and mate.

                    • JohnSelway …
                      16 May 2019 at 7:54 pm

                      No 1 failure is….1 failure. Not 100%, 1.

                      1 plane fails and crashes…does that mean all planes can't fly?

                    • One Two []
                      16 May 2019 at 7:58 pm

                      Of the provided evidence..

                      One failure of one = 100% failure.

                      That's all from my responses permanently from me, selway…

                      You're a dead end.

                      But you know that.

                    • marty mars …
                      16 May 2019 at 7:56 pm

                      lol what a joke – one two the bullshit artist caught red handed with his hand on it. Your cred is zero one two.

                    • One Two []
                      16 May 2019 at 8:04 pm

                      your cred is zero…

                      says the commentator who screams racism at every moment…yeah I saw you do it again yesterday to waghorn…

                      I'll spell it out for you this time.

                      You don't want to read the evidence which has been provided or which is readily available..because you don't understand it…

                      Run along mars…

                    • JohnSelway …
                      16 May 2019 at 7:57 pm

                      A useless vaccine which 100% vaccinated cohorts have still contacted mumps.

                      Citation needed.

                      “You’ve been explained to that the mumps vaccine is failing. “

                      Citation still needed

                    • JohnSelway …
                      16 May 2019 at 7:59 pm

                      Wow…One Two flamed the fuck out.

                      That was….beautiful…

                    • JohnSelway …
                      16 May 2019 at 8:07 pm

                      " You don't want to read the evidence which has been provided or which is readily available..because you don't understand it… "

                      Or…

                      "My argument is so powerful it's not necessary to talk about it"

                    • marty mars …
                      16 May 2019 at 8:23 pm

                      yep zero one two finally had to change his nappies – zero evidence, absolutely nothing, what an embarrassment. Almost feel a bit sorry for the turd – he has been demolished so bad today and yesterday too truth be told.

                      Ah well he seems a sucker for punishment so I'm sure he'll bounce back.

                    • The Al1en …
                      16 May 2019 at 8:27 pm

                      Wow…One Two flamed the fuck out.

                      That was….beautiful…

                      Now that is a 100% failure rate lol

            • One Two 6.2.2.2.2.3
              16 May 2019 at 3:24 pm

              Really sorry to hear about the circumstances of your friend and little boy…and apply the same to all those going through similar life altering circumstances…

              However, not one other human being walking this earth has an obligation to become part of an imagined risk management plan at the public request of another…

              In fact, appealing to others in such a public demonstration of what is a private matter for family and friends, is not something to be proud for , in my opinion…

              In fact, such a public plea is essentially an understandable act of selfishness.

              • joe90 …
                16 May 2019 at 3:44 pm

                A pair of pinkies and a tub of marg couldn’t make you a more supercilious wanker.

                • One Two …
                  16 May 2019 at 4:00 pm

                  Joe, you should desist with the continual perverted references, as it begs the question…with all the time you spend online developing such twisted views… all of which have been scientifically refuted…

                  What else are you actually looking at and reading about online which is contributing to your continued commentary perversions, and warped views towards women ?

                  Is that where the misogyny stems from?

                  • JohnSelway …
                    16 May 2019 at 4:02 pm

                    " all of which have been scientifically refuted… "

                    You've never refuted a fucking thing and weirdly call actual science 'selway science' which I love BTW

                    • One Two …
                      16 May 2019 at 4:33 pm

                      Every comment or link which you guys (not you because your contribution is the lowest form of troll type activity)…have been illustratively flawed and dissected through scientific studies and research…

                      There is not a single component of the subject which you nor any of the other guys can point to , which has not been dismantled…or would not be dismantled, if any of you could actually undertand what you were reading…

                      I love BTW

                      Sure you do. Why bother moving on from the name calling stage, if you don't want to.

              • JohnSelway …
                16 May 2019 at 3:47 pm

                But the rest of society that want to work together have every right to tell you to fuck off

    • marty mars 6.3
      16 May 2019 at 10:36 am

      Yep as I put up last night – so bad these bastards, so bad.

      "Utter disgusting pricks – look at the photos of these arseholes – they are the enemy.

      Alabama’s new law mandating an almost blanket ban on abortion, the strictest in the United States, was passed by this group of exclusively white, male politicians.

      Of the 27 Republicans, all white men, that dominate the 35-seat Alabama senate, 25 voted to pass the bill late on Tuesday.

      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/14/alabama-abortion-ban-white-men-republicans "

      • joe90 6.3.1
        16 May 2019 at 10:40 am

        My reply.

        A bill making it a crime to falsely accuse someone of a sexual crime was first read in the Alabama House of Representatives last week.

        The bill, introduced by Rep. Dickie Drake, R-Leeds, would make falsely reporting a sex crime a Class C felony and punishable by up to 10 years in prison. If the accused is found not guilty, the accuser would be responsible for paying the accused person's legal expenses.

        It is already illegal to make a false police report in Alabama.

        https://www.al.com/politics/2019/05/alabama-bill-would-criminalize-false-rape-accusations.html

        • marty mars 6.3.1.1
          16 May 2019 at 10:53 am

          Yep – you are on to it and with war brewing gonna be important to keep up with good sources and articles. Kia kaha

        • Gabby 6.3.1.2
          16 May 2019 at 6:16 pm

          Can't imagine Dickie has anything to hide.

      • Sabine 6.3.2
        16 May 2019 at 11:16 am

        it is a blanket law a it literally forces a doctor to make a choice between 99 years prison or the mothers health.

        when you state as a law maker that an 'eptopic pregnancy should be cut out of the fallopian tube and inserted into the uterus – a procedure that does not exist as most eptopic pregnancies are discovered when the fallopian tube ruptures then no doctor will ever state that the life of the mother is in danger.

        https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a27423628/alabama-abortion-bill-georgia-ohio-ectopic-pregnancy/

        "The bill would ban nontherapeutic abortions that include "drugs or devices used to prevent the implantation of a fertilized ovum.” And Becker says the bill also speaks to coverage of ectopic or tubal pregnancies where the fertilized egg attaches outside of the womb. “Part of that treatment would be removing that embryo from the fallopian tube and reinserting it in the uterus so that is defined as not an abortion under this bill," Becker explains. “That doesn’t exist in the realm of treatment for ectopic pregnancy. You can’t just re-implant. It’s not a medical thing," says Jaime Miracle, deputy director of NARAL Pro-Choice Ohio. "

        and i warned of this. This is the beginning of the end of Roe vs Wade and Griswold vs Conneticut. Access to birth control – something women here in NZ and elsewhere in hte world got around 1974 – for unmarried women, a bit earlier for married women if hte husband was ok with it. Cause man have rights and women have duties.

        https://radio.wosu.org/post/new-ohio-bill-would-ban-most-private-insurance-coverage-abortion#stream/0

        and of course it is men who would decide such things, they are not affected by it. if men were to give birth, abortion would be a sacrament.

      • Adrian Thornton 6.3.3
        16 May 2019 at 11:22 am

        Also. and this is just fishing really, but the timing is important.

        Think of this scenario, Bernie gets the nomination, is going head to head with Trump, where do the Republicans feel most threatened by Bernie?, the rust belt, so if the Republicans can turn the election in the rust belt into a question of abortion rights, then they can really do Bernie a lot of damage in those states.

        • Sabine 6.3.3.1
          16 May 2019 at 11:24 am

          felons don't have voting rights.

          and if you have eleventy kids and no child care then you don't have a way to go to the voting booth.

        • greywarshark 6.3.3.2
          16 May 2019 at 11:26 am

          OOer Adrian – you're onto a proper naughty political idea there. It sounds just deep and dark enough for Republicans to have had clever thinkers' nightmares put forward so they can pass the vote with a vast majority.

          • Adrian Thornton 6.3.3.2.1
            16 May 2019 at 11:30 am

            Well as much as I hate to say it the right often have very savvy and far sighted political strategists working for them, Key sure as hell did.

            • Sabine 6.3.3.2.1.1
              16 May 2019 at 11:56 am

              the right since the beginning of the civil rights legislation was focused on rolling back any gains made.

              they are united in this effort. NO rights for women, people who are not heterosexual, people who are not white (unless the nonwhite person is happy to carry water for them, after all its good to have some Uncle Toms – but legally these Uncles and Auntys only have rights so as long as their owner gives them these )

              the left – or the not right squabbles over baubles.

              like medicinal marie jeanne but only if you are near dead and then no gummi bears. Cause fuck it, we don't care, we are just here for the wages. The big difference with the right and the non right is that the right has a spine and conviction. the non right has pie fights.

              • Adrian Thornton …
                16 May 2019 at 12:25 pm

                Hi Sabine, I think it is a little more complicated than that, since the liberal take over of most western left wing parties there has been very conflicted messages and direction coming from the left, as is the case in NZ.

                However as soon as a left political movement or party manages to throw off the shackles of neo liberalism you see a very coherent and usually very popular message, just witness Corbyn's last run in the UK, and Sanders in the US..when the Left is on form and has a direction it can mobilize citizens like no other modern political ideology.

                Our biggest problem is still the infiltration of the liberals into our Left parties and media like a cancer, cut them out I say.

                Turn Labour Left!

                • Sabine …
                  16 May 2019 at 1:05 pm

                  no it actually is not much more complicated then that.

                  we know the issues that we have, we know what is going to happen in regards to global warming, mass disappearance of flaura and fauna, we know our issue in regards to work, housing and the likes, and we elect people that supposedly have our 'best' at heart while clearly they don't.

                  as i said, its like the 'victorious' Chloe Swarbrick assuring everyone that only the half dead will have access to medicinal weed and she will personally make sure no gummi bears will be made of it, cause fun. 🙂 No real legislation that would offer a chance out of gangs, of prisons, into good paying jobs and new tax revenue. Cause we can't have MJ Gummibears – what would the world come too.

                  Its a load of bullshit, changes nothing much, but will make some feel good about their electoral choices.

                  I still posit that hte only reason Phil Twyford is concerned about hte housing crisis is the fact that his own, middle – upper class children, can not afford on their own a house in his own neighberhood. Think about that.

                  And i admit that i would vote for these guys, not because they do anything for me – they don't, i am too poor to vote for National but too rich to get anything from Labour – but because the crumbs they offer helped a few friends of mine that are not as lucky in health and work as i am.

    • Anne 6.4
      16 May 2019 at 10:58 am

      The amendment to add rape and incest exceptions failed 11-22. Alabama will make abortions a felony, in all cases, from the moment of conception, punishable by up to 99 years in prison.

      So, the perpetraotors of the rape or incest will be liable for a prison term of up to 99 years? (sarc)

      It is almost impossible to believe in this day and age, and yet another nail in the coffin of the US of A. They are becoming a laughing stock around the world.

    • AB 6.5
      16 May 2019 at 2:35 pm

      If these guys are so concerned about human life, it would be interesting to see their voting records on abolishing the death penalty, ensuring Americans don't die prematurely from being unable to afford healthcare, and killing foreign civilians with bombs and drone strikes.

      I suspect a few 'inconsistencies' might appear.

    • joe90 6.6
      16 May 2019 at 3:00 pm

      These people are vile.

      One of the proposals on the table, House Bill 4320, is a ban on dilation and evacuation, the procedure that usually ends pregnancies in the second trimester. Several doctors have testified that the D&E ban would make abortions more painful for women (because a different procedure would be necessary) and that the women would be more at risk. Another bill, HB 4321, would punish doctors who perform a D&E with a prison sentence of up to two years on top of a maximum $50,000 fine. (There are companion bills in the Senate that say the same things.)

      None of that matters to Republican State Sen. Kim LaSata.

      On Tuesday, she celebrated the idea that women would suffer if this bill went into effect. Start watching around the 1:59:50 mark in the video below.

      “Of course it should be hard!” the senator from St. Joseph exclaimed. “And the procedure should be painful! And you should allow God to take over!! And you should deliver that baby!”

      …

      LaSata told colleagues she had delivered a stillborn baby after her own D&E procedure went awry. LaSata cited her traumatic experience as evidence “of God looking out for me,” and suggested that all women carrying medically unviable fetuses would be better off delivering their babies.

      “You should allow God to take over and deliver that baby,” she said, “and it shouldn’t be made easier for you.”

      https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2019/05/15/mi-lawmaker-abortions-should-be-painful-women-must-allow-god-to-take-over/

      • Psycho Milt 6.6.1
        16 May 2019 at 3:42 pm

        People like this are possibly the best argument against gods providing an absolute moral standard that human morality is derived from.

    • Incognito 6.7
      16 May 2019 at 3:58 pm

      Ploink, ploink …

  7. CC 7
    16 May 2019 at 9:27 am

    Why the hell is National's Mitchell wanting NZ to extend its Iraq commitment when European armed forces personnel are being pulled out immediately because of US sabre rattling?

  8. The Chairman 8
    16 May 2019 at 9:46 am

    Don't usually agree with David Seymour, but in this case he raises and highlights some valid points

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/112742472/dont-let-politicians-use-the-law-to-shut-down-speech-they-dont-like

  10. greywarshark 10
    16 May 2019 at 10:15 am

    This sounds sensible.

    Kate Berridge, a bariatric nurse and now owner of the company Beyond Obesity,… A better perspective is to be as healthy as you can, in the body you have, she says. “That is significantly better long term, then really, really working hard at losing weight.”

    People with a predisposition to weight gain have the odds tacked against them, she says.

    "This is a global syndemic and we really need to be looking at food systems and the way that we are working with the planet. It's been said that the genes load the gun and the environment pulls the trigger.”

    So, it is paradoxical to be critical when overweight people live in an environment, she says, is a perfect storm.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2018694989/why-weight-is-not-a-measure-of-health

  11. Tuppence Shrewsbury 11
    16 May 2019 at 10:38 am

    So Wellington gets rapid transit to its two bit airport from the city while auckland gets a tram that takes longer than driving on a good day to the busiest airport in the country by a looooonnnggg stretch.

    Priorities, this government hasn’t thought them through.

    • Gabby 11.1
      16 May 2019 at 10:51 am

      Take it up with Gfoffloffle tuppers.

    • Sabine 11.2
      16 May 2019 at 11:21 am

      the no mates party had nine years to get something done and did what? Fuck all?

      so yeah, both sides are useless when it comes to public transport. But did you really expect anything else?

    • Sacha 11.3
      16 May 2019 at 2:22 pm

      'Rapid transit' is likely to be a tram in Welli too, with many stops along the route. Just like Auckland.

  12. greywarshark 12
    16 May 2019 at 11:06 am

    Educators have been turned into easy targets for condemnation from all by government policies forcing systems on them beyond their capacity to cope.

    They have had National Standards and minute internal assessments. They have to be extremely careful in dealing with disturbed and badly behaved children. almost helpless because of strict laws. They have had to cope with hungry tired children from poor families, they have had to cope with drugs on site, and malicious or fault-finding parents.

    On top of this, they have disabled or mentally different children added to their regular classes. They may have some hours of teacher aid available but the rest of the time the teacher is the educator and help. Every child is different and the teacher needs to be able to cope with a range. But a child who is outside the range, perhaps unpredictable, extra sensitive, is a hardship for the teacher.

    I see in the paper this morning the heading 'School 'shamed' autistic boy. This is because they put up signs asking the whole school to keep an eye on a wandering autistic boy. He is on the autistic spectrum, has obsessive-compulsive disorder, attention deficit disorder and oppositional defiant disorder.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/112616592/schools-tactics-to-manage-disruptive-special-needs-pupil-shock-mother

    Imagine trying to teach a classroom and also deal with those problems? All children's education is likely to sink to the basics when the extra time that could have been put into extra interest subjects, projects, has to be turned to attempting to educate someone despite those barriers. The child may need a different style that fits only him.

    Different styles of learning for different personalities and abilities. First a general look at a few of the traits, thinking about the kinesthetic.

    https://www.2knowmyself.com/The_kinesthetic_personality_type For instance – The auditory is the person who learns best by hearing, the visual is the one who learns best by seeing while the kinesthetic is the one who learns best by feeling. … The kinesthetic is an emotional person who has to feel things before he can learn them.

    Eight different learning styles. After looking at all this, it can be seen that teaching the normal range of children's minds is taxing.

    With that said, let's delve into the different learning styles and how each can be addressed within a classroom or professional setting.

    • 1 Visual. The visual or spatial learner is often referred to as a right-brained learner. …
    • 2 Verbal. …
    • 3 Logical. …
    • 4 Auditory. …
    • 5 Social. …
    • 6 Intrapersonal. …
    • 7 Physical. …
    • 8 Naturalistic.
    • https://visme.co/blog/8-learning-styles/
  13. Adrian Thornton 13
    16 May 2019 at 11:33 am

    The American "centre' left media is now so fucked that one of the only sane voices on US foreign policy actually comes from Tucker Carlson on Fox FFS.

  14. Jum 14
    16 May 2019 at 12:28 pm

    The Auckland Fried Chicken Festial, a hyped up profit driven use of hens, encouraging people to eat more chicken.

    Does anyone know if all the chicken was once from creatures living open range or open to the outside and sunshine?

    If not is that how New Zealanders get their 'fun'? On the misery of once living creatures sentenced to a brutish, cruel and short existence in overstocked barns?

  15. joe90 15
    16 May 2019 at 1:32 pm

    My friend and his whānau planted out the steeps of their whenua, on east bank of the Whanganui, in manuka. Their blended honey is sublime. That is all.

    • Macro 15.1
      16 May 2019 at 1:39 pm

      ooooh yummy!

      Just imagine live milk and raw manuka honey.

      That really would be the land of milk and honey. 🙂

    • gsays 16.1
      16 May 2019 at 8:59 pm

      C'mon Morrissey, be honest, did a rugby player pooh in yr man bag or something. You seem to have an axe to grind.

      " Ian Kirkpatrick's denial is less than convincing "

      because…?

      Have you read Palenski's recent book on Murdoch? It may shed a little light.

      • Morrissey 16.1.1
        17 May 2019 at 5:46 pm

        You seem to have an axe to grind.

        I certainly do have an axe to grind with the dishonorable legacy of rugby—in this case, but it applies to other sports too. That legacy includes brutal mistreatment of women, racism—Kirkpatrick, Meads and Murdoch were all on that infamous 1970 tour of apartheid South Africa—and the most cynical abuse of standards of sportsmanship.

    • Gabby 16.2
      17 May 2019 at 7:31 am

      Why's it unconvincing morsissey?

  17. greywarshark 17
    16 May 2019 at 8:31 pm

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/389301/ministry-of-social-development-systematically-misusing-powers-inquiry

    Mr Viv Rickard was in the police for a long time before going to social welfare. Perhaps a police background is a contra-indication of an interest in the welfare of poor people. Community constables are a different breed to other parts of the police.

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.