Open Mike 16/09/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 16th, 2017 - 102 comments
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102 comments on “Open Mike 16/09/2017 ”

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  1. JR Murphy 1
    16 September 2017 at 6:49 am

    Went out last night to karaoke, they now forced to close at 1am, instead of 2am – the authoritarian old farts on the council and the police I bet – love telling us peasants what to do.

    So I was outside talking to security guy and police stated going past about midnight, to intimidate staff and patrons – to make sure everything was shut down by 1am.

    Everybody that goes to the karaoke is pisd off about the further restriction of hours. Staff take the brunt of it, they the ones who will be fined. People just want to hang out together, play some pool, listen to music, have a few drinks etc. And in comes the Carterton Council and Community Leaders to stomp on our cultural freedoms to socialise at a pub. Is this what happens when the baby boomers are too powerful, or is it just that elites like to intimidate and control us poorer peasants.

    Yes sometimes there are fights, and they are handled expertly by staff and security. I never feel unsafe there – Wairarapa is shutting down everything it can for the poorest people in the community – why is that?

    Authoritiarian is not a good word, governments restricting people’s freedom to socialise is not good either.

    • RedBaronCV 1.1
      16 September 2017 at 11:04 am

      I happen to agree with you. The police seem to be peddling some snake oil about how it is better to close early. Tried it in Newcastle Australia and all it did was increase young road deaths as they drove elsewhere for fun.

      If you are young why can’t you dance till dawn – one day you can’t. Maybe start watering the drinks after 1.00pm but people drift off gradually and the cold light of 5.00a.m is kinda sobering IIRC.

    • Psycho Milt 1.2
      16 September 2017 at 4:46 pm

      One of the downsides of a Labour/Green victory if we get one this month would be that this kind of clampdown on people having fun would only increase. Both parties are even more full of people who know what’s best for you than National is.

      • Incognito 1.2.1
        16 September 2017 at 5:24 pm

        Are you saying that they are party poopers and will take all the fun out of our lives?

        Are you saying that fun=bad & no fun=good?

        I just wanna have fun, lots of it! Whom should I vote for?

        • Psycho Milt 1.2.1.1
          16 September 2017 at 5:47 pm

          Bloody hell, don’t base your vote on that! The party that would interfere the least with whatever fun you like having is probably ACT…

          • Incognito 1.2.1.1.1
            16 September 2017 at 6:05 pm

            Oh dear, I was afraid you’d say ACT. How’s ACT gonna increase my fun? I love Red Dwarf but I don’t find Seymour remotely funny. In fact, when thinking about ACT it spoils my fun …

            • Psycho Milt 1.2.1.1.1.1
              16 September 2017 at 6:45 pm

              Horrifying, isn’t it? Still, just be glad it’s Seymour and not John Banks, Don Brash and David Garrett – Seymour looks positively jovial in comparison.

              • Andre …
                16 September 2017 at 7:42 pm

                Jamie Whyte must have been an absolute riot at family gatherings.

                • Incognito …
                  16 September 2017 at 7:51 pm

                  Actually, I found him moderately interesting on occasion but his philosophical musings had no place in political discourse.

              • Incognito …
                16 September 2017 at 7:56 pm

                I might have to see somebody for this but I often associate ACT with Destiny Church and Exclusive Brethren … These are real party-starters, aren’t they?

      • Andre 1.2.2
        16 September 2017 at 6:08 pm

        On the other hand, if your idea of fun is sitting around in a blue haze blurting “cosmic” and “groovy” in response to banal observations and giggling a lot, then Greens/Labour are more likely to move on allowing that indulgence without risking a visit from Plod.

    • McFlock 1.3
      16 September 2017 at 7:27 pm

      I’m not opposed to most pubs shutting at 1am, but a nightclub license should be available for them who wants to go until dawn. It’s normally a tiny proportion who will move bars to continue.

      The real problems come from bars competing to pump as much piss into as many people as possible, then dumping them on the street when they’re well over the limit. Preloading is also an issue.

  2. aom 2
    16 September 2017 at 7:12 am

    Granny Herald is still in over-drive with its it cheer-leading for the most despicable and dishonest campaign by National since ……. oh yeah – the last election. First there was John Armstrong who seems to be racing into senility and memory loss at a faster rate than the average 80 year. Amongst other alternative facts, he appears to be claiming that Labour had a whole range of new taxes to implement in its manifesto. Really? Then there was the indefatigable serial mis-representer Fran O’Sullivan who, among other things, seems to think Labour ‘invited’ the Joyce/English lie machine to rev up to full noise to mislead the voters. Thankfully, Lizzie Marvelly put in a few drops of sanity with, “All aboard the election porky train.” to relieve the tedium.
    Given that National already has a capital gains tax in force, it seems that extending the time frame from 2 to 5 years and keeping the level of taxation in line with house price inflation over the past nine years doesn’t constitute a new tax – ” Let’s do it!”. Other stuff can probably wait until later BUT another option would be to play the National line – we had to do it because it was the policy of our coalition partner. ACT, with only one pathetic excuse for a politician wagged the dog and that was fine!

  3. Andre 3
    16 September 2017 at 7:28 am

    The deplorables are revolting.

    It seems they’re a wee bit miffed that Donny Littlehands is daring to talk to Dems about immigration.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/burn-my-maga-hat_us_59bb4dc9e4b0edff971ac966?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

  4. Pat 4
    16 September 2017 at 8:04 am

    ‘I deny that I spy with my little eye on a country beginning with NZ”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11922676

    lmao….the funniest line I’ve read since the last one.

    • Ad 4.1
      16 September 2017 at 8:52 am

      On Ardern:

      “Let me be perfectly clear… like a jellyfish … translucent even… radiant from within … like a candle in the wind, never knowing where to cling to … and there goes our tax policy…”

      Top work Mr Braunias.

  5. DSpare 5
    16 September 2017 at 8:43 am

    If anyone is still determined to vote for TOP, this may give you some pause:

    He wants 10 to 15 per cent of the party vote. Only then would he feel the ethical mandate to go into politics full time… But if the Opportunities Party polls lower than that – even if they get a seat – it won’t be Gareth Morgan pushing through the policies.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/90512535/gareth-morgan-rules-out-parliament-unless-opportunities-party-gets-10-per-cent-of-vote

    Given that Morgan is the face of the party (I can only name two other candidates and that is only because they used to be with the GP and ALCP respectively), you have to question who would still vote for them knowing that he’ll be on his bike as soon as the counting is done. I take polls with much caution, but TOP has never cracked 3% and has more often been below 2%; 5% is unlikely but not inconcievable10-15% is simply delusional.

    Given this, I have to ask; if Morgan was always determined to stay out of parliament unless TOP got at least 10%, why is he at list position #1, rather than #11?

    • mikesh 5.1
      16 September 2017 at 9:36 am

      It doesn´t matter whether more than 5% or less, or even whether he takes up his seat, assuming wins one (assuming he does´t win a constituency seat his party will have either six seats or none – the system doesn´t allow for anything in between).

      It has been my practice ever since I started voting to vote for the party with the most enlightened policies, and I will be doing so this election.

      • DSpare 5.1.1
        16 September 2017 at 1:10 pm

        mikesh
        If I had my choice, I’d be voting for MANA again, as they have been a consistant voice for the underclass in Aotearoa (Māori and Pākehā). Their policy releases have been ongoing throughout the election campaign, but not got a lot of cut through, water was the most recent:

        Wai (water) is essential for the life, health and wellbeing of all living things. Water is also an important resource for the people, plant life, farming, industry, recreation, cultural ceremonies and power generation in Aotearoa. The mauri, (the vitality of the life force) and sustainability of water is constantly being threatened and eroded by pollution and over consumption.

        http://mana.org.nz/

        However, unless you happen to vote in Te Tai Tokerau (which I don’t), a vote for MANA is likely to be wasted. Thus I have chosen pragmatism over principle this election.

        Our electoral system is currently constructed (eg; coat-tailing, and 5% thresholds) to actively dissuade people from voting for the parties whose policies seem most enlightened to them. Until this changes, I feel it is necessary to vote strategically.

  6. Glenn 6
    16 September 2017 at 9:03 am

    “It has obviously been happening for quite a while but sometimes these subterranean societal shifts are hard to detect, especially by people like me who are being left behind.

    As we approach the closely fought election in which the race is between somebody about my age and someone exactly 22 years younger than me, it’s become clearer that New Zealand is indeed ready to cross over into something new.

    That’s why I think Jacinda Ardern is going to win the election or at least get more of the party vote than National.

    And even if I am wrong about that, the ground has still shifted and what she represents is in the ascendant. If not this time, it will be the next.”

    Martin van Beynen: A changing of the guard is on the way

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/96824698/martin-van-beynen-a-changing-of-the-guard-is-on-the-way

    Well worth while reading!

  7. Cinny 7
    16 September 2017 at 9:35 am

    Heres the live link for the Nation, it’s on now.

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows.html

    They will be covering the proposed Waimea Dam, prisons/corrections (Kelvin Davis and louise upston) and Paddy talks to Willie J, Marama D and flavell re the maori seats.

    Corrections interview/debate is on now.

    • Carolyn_nth 7.1
      16 September 2017 at 9:40 am

      I’d watch but, Patrick Gower – I think I’ll just watch the responses.

      • Cinny 7.1.1
        16 September 2017 at 9:45 am

        LMFAO re Paddy

        One thing that has bitterly disappointed me about national is their lack of wanting to engage in cross-party groups to tackle some of NZ’s major problems.

        Have noticed nat’s wheeling out a lame as attack line to opposition parties of late… “you’ve had nine years to do something”… (it’s like excuse me, who has been running the country for the last nine years?)

        EDIT… STREAM CEASED AS ALARM WENT OFF AND THEY HAVE TO EVACUATE THE BUILDING

    • ianmac 7.2
      16 September 2017 at 9:57 am

      OOps A fire alarm. All out. Louise Upston is a shouty woman too! Her belief is if you shout over the others you will believe her.

    • Foreign waka 7.3
      16 September 2017 at 3:05 pm

      Not watching The Nation anymore, the program needs a new title: The National Nation would be more like it. It is nothing less than a propaganda fest. Biased and is shows, shrill and at times almost hysterical to defend. Who in their right mind would want to watch this?

      • Cinny 7.3.1
        16 September 2017 at 7:08 pm

        i watch/listen to as many different political shows as possible no matter which way their leanings, am not in my right mind, however, instead am ambidextrous.

        Anyways, they are re-recording some segments with flavell, and screening it again in the morrow.

  8. Cinny 8
    16 September 2017 at 10:04 am

    Does anyone know who is hosting the final debate please? The few times I’ve seen 7sharp advertised this week i’ve seen Jack filling in for hosking

  9. The Chairman 9
    16 September 2017 at 10:24 am

    With the recent Jian Yang revelation, this is worth a listen

    • joe90 9.1
      16 September 2017 at 11:33 am

      this is worth a listen

      To be fair Ron Asher’s book is a hit over at the national front, but I think I’ll pass.

      Palgrem’s red ice conspiracy theories, pseudohistory, and alt-right white genocide woo are fucking hilarious, too.

      • The Chairman 9.1.1
        16 September 2017 at 11:52 am

        It’s hard to critique when one isn’t even prepared to listen.

        Which would explain your attempt to disregard it by pointing at the National Front (who have nothing to do with it) and the site that hosted the interview.

        Do you think we are immune from this?
        http://www.smh.com.au/interactive/2017/chinas-operation-australia/soft-power.html

        • Bill 9.1.1.1
          16 September 2017 at 5:19 pm

          A state seeking to suppress political activity of a citizenry isn’t the same thing as states competing or jockeying for power amongst themselves.

          Best to keep the two things separate.

          The US, NZ, China and every other fucking state deserves to be kicked in the head for the former (suppression of a citizenry’s political will).

          As for condemning China’s bid for global power, that can’t be done without rank hypocrisy and probably buying into some degree of racist/xenophobic bullshit unless all state power by whatever state is also condemned.

          And Marty Mars and McFlock doing the ad hom mambo? Yup. Fucking tedious.

      • marty mars 9.1.2
        16 September 2017 at 12:01 pm

        Onto it joe as usual. Thanks for the links. Sad the chair is going this way although better than his usual spam and declarations that he’s a leftie.

        • The Chairman 9.1.2.1
          16 September 2017 at 12:32 pm

          That’s right, Marty, have another go at me. Show everyone how you play the man and not the ball.

          • marty mars 9.1.2.1.1
            16 September 2017 at 1:04 pm

            You put it up, Joe put something up, I agree with Joe as it fitted what I had observed.

            I said it was sad that you were putting up stuff the national front got boners over and I said I still preferred that to the spam imo that you post attacking labour.

            Wow big personal attacks in all that – not.

            • The Chairman 9.1.2.1.1.1
              16 September 2017 at 2:50 pm

              Joe didn’t address the interview I presented.

              Though he did try to diminish it by pointing to the National Front (which have nothing to do with it) and the site that hosted it. Alluding to other crap the site also presents, which also has nothing to do with what I posted.

              You came in, slapped his back and decided to have a little personal dig at me. When we all know I’m not the topic of the discussion. Of which, you added nothing too.

              Care to try again?

              • McFlock …
                16 September 2017 at 3:27 pm

                I’m impressed that Joe got that far.

                I figured it was probably bunk simply because you were posting it.

                • The Chairman …
                  16 September 2017 at 3:31 pm

                  Have a listen, then tell me what you think is bunk and why you believe it to be so.

                  • McFlock …
                    16 September 2017 at 7:11 pm

                    Why should I bother?
                    You’re just a time leech.

                    • Bill …
                      16 September 2017 at 7:18 pm

                      Cut it the fuck out McFlock, will you?

                      You don’t like the guys comments, then pass them by and stop filling space up with pointless snipes.

                    • McFlock …
                      16 September 2017 at 7:50 pm

                      You’re a moderator, so I guess I’ll have to.

                      But they’re not pointless. In my opinion, TC actively contributes to the information overload that bogs down political discourse these days. Posting a fifty minute video with fuckall context and then getting pissy when someone points out it’s on a National Front hot picks list (which is definitely valid context for judging its likely merit) is just the latest example. The majority of TC’s ouvre revolves around wallowing in bland nonsensicalities that TC paints as profound political observations, like Pete George- only TC’s better at toeing the line.

                      And the thing is, engaging TC in debate is only playing their game of “twenty to the power of infinity questions”. Ignoring TC leaves the bog spider waiting to tie other people in knots. So that’s why I think there’s a point in calling TC what they are.

                    • The Chairman …
                      16 September 2017 at 9:56 pm

                      That fifty minute video was a wide ranging discussion that a number of political junkies would find interesting.

                      I purposely posted it on the weekend to allow those who are interested the time to view it.

                      It’s no longer than watching an episode of the Nation or Q&A.

                      If you are merely looking for quick soundbites and don’t have time for the larger issues, then best you move on. No one is forcing you to partake.

                      The title was self explanatory, thus “fuckall” context was given.

                      And I wasn’t getting “pissy” it’s on the National Front hot picks list as it’s not a valid way of judging its merit. The book has nothing to do with them.

                    • Bill …
                      16 September 2017 at 10:05 pm

                      It’s ‘Open Mike’ McFlock. That makes a difference. And if I was moderating, I’d have been bold typing inside your comment. Just saying.

                    • marty mars …
                      16 September 2017 at 10:29 pm

                      “Cut it the fuck out McFlock, will you?”

                      sounded to me like the bold was coming and that was a moderator inspired comment or at least the close imminent potential for one – I took it that way.

                      I try to obey moderators – no point making life tough especially in a no win situation.

                    • McFlock …
                      16 September 2017 at 10:32 pm

                      @bill
                      yeah, but I’ve learned to play it safe before things get too boldy mcboldtype 🙂

                      @TC – if the national front like something, it’s not because of its impartial intellectualism on either part. You could have saved yourself 50 minutes.

              • marty mars …
                16 September 2017 at 4:39 pm

                You haven’t refuted Joe or my points – you dragged something out that is well liked by the National Front – that is a fact. Not only that but the site he linked to runs numerous outrageous and disgusting pieces as he highlighted and that is a fact.

                Here’s a hint – a REAL left orientated person would take the criticism and listen to it and maybe say, “Hey thanks Joe and Marty, I didn’t realise that what I put up had such horrible friends and now I do I will really try to do more checking before I add something to the forum.”

                What do you do – argue like a rightie about your ego – sorry bubb that is a fail. sad.

                • Karen …
                  16 September 2017 at 6:35 pm

                  +1 Marty.

                  “argue like a rightie” – he always does as far as I can see.

                • The Chairman …
                  16 September 2017 at 7:16 pm

                  What so-called points are you on about, Marty?

                  I presented an interview with the author of the book. And the fact that the National Front like it is neither here nor there. They have nothing to do with it.

                  Moreover, the outrageous and disgusting pieces on the site he (Joe) linked to also had nothing to do with the interview I presented.

                  The only association the site has with the author was the hosting of the interview.

                  Hence, Joe was using it as a way to diminish and ridicule the interview I posted.

                  Therefore, I don’t owe anyone an apology.

                  I don’t have a problem with criticism, as long as it has merit. And as you can see from the points above, this has nothing to do with my ego.

                • Muttonbird …
                  16 September 2017 at 11:46 pm

                  For what it’s worth (probably nothing) I too think The Chairman is a spamming pretend leftie who posts in the Pete George mold.

                  It’s spam because The Chairman’s style is to write one line, place a link, then ask for thoughts (see the very comment with clip which started this). It’s pretty lazy really.

                  He’s a pretend leftie because 95% of his posts are criticisms of NZ Labour and when challenged on why he never critiques the actual enemy of the left, the National Party, claims lamely that not ever holding the Nats to account shouldn’t preclude him from undermining Labour at every single opportunity.

                  And he’s Pete George lite in the way he floods a discussion with beige distractions and how he, when pulled up, tries to make the argument itself more important than the original point.

                  Bill may have missed all this but I and obviously some others have The Chairman’s number.

                  • Union city greens …
                    16 September 2017 at 11:49 pm

                    Mould, or in PG’s case, mold is probably appropriate.

                    • Muttonbird …
                      16 September 2017 at 11:57 pm

                      Yeah, they’re both like that black stuff you find around the windows of a typical cold damp NZ house. An insidious and constant reminder to average Kiwis they have no hope.

                  • The Chairman …
                    17 September 2017 at 1:53 am

                    I presented an interview with wide ranging implications and all you can do is write your thoughts on me?

                    There really is little hope for this nation if you lot think I’m your concern.

                    I’ve stated my political position. And any genuine lefty would be criticizing this Labour lot cause they are far from left.

                    They won’t even increase core benefit rates, which would provide some instant relief for a good many that are struggling.

                    Lowering the bar isn’t going to encourage them to up their game. If we want more from Labour we have to hold their feet to the fire. You lot should be with me on this, not against me. Which makes me question how left are you?

                    I didn’t claim that not ever holding the Nats to account shouldn’t preclude me from undermining Labour, which makes you a liar.

                    Nor was it my answer when challenged on why I seldom critique National.

                    The real enemy of the left are the right within, that’s what’s largely causing Labour to fall short. Robbing us of the opportunity to better repair this mess 30 odd years of neo-liberalism (led by both Labour and National) has created.

    • Bill 9.2
      16 September 2017 at 4:26 pm

      So the basic complaint is that China may be kind of buying global dominance and that’s just not on because “the West” is the rightful seat of global power. That about right?

      The same shit and fear was peddled by the British when the US was on the rise – fear and loathing. All bullshit.

      I’ll say this for China. At least its rise to global prominence isn’t coming off the back of militarism and imposed states of penury as “the West’s” was.

      • The Chairman 9.2.1
        16 September 2017 at 6:12 pm

        “So the basic complaint is that China may be kind of buying global dominance”

        Depending on ones perspective, some may see it more as an economic takeover.

        And it’s not on (as you put it) for a number of reasons, but not the one you put forward.

        It’s an attack on a nations sovereignty, its democracy, and rule of law.

        While there are no explosions on the ground, planes in the air, or tanks on the streets, the wealth stripping is creating harm. Seen our current account? Homelessness? Poverty? Inequality? Suicides? Assets and resources sold to foreign hands? It’s all part of the globalized, neo-liberal way.

        Until recently, it’s largely been western elite cleaning us out. And that isn’t on either.

        China invaded Tibet and why do think they are building up their military, Navy, etc…? Could it be to intimidate and in preparation of resistance of their financial offerings?

        Have a listen to the interview, I think you’ll find it interesting.

        • Bill 9.2.1.1
          16 September 2017 at 6:30 pm

          I already dropped into it and skipped though randomly to get ‘a taste’ of where the guy was coming from. He’s a “Yellow Peril” arse-wipe from what I can tell.

          And your comment’s just a pile of kinda breathless assertions with no argument or rationale attached.

          I don’t really care too much for a nation state’s sovereignty given it’s an illegitimate construct by my political reasoning. But you want to get all hot under the collar over various competing and equally illegitimate “pretenders” then hey.

          And if/when that slips into xenophobic and/or racist bullshit I might pipe up. But until then….meh.

          • greywarshark 9.2.1.1.1
            16 September 2017 at 7:21 pm

            The Chairman
            Oh so it’s China that’s at the base of everything going wrong in NZ. And all the time I thought it was our dollar-eyeballed pollies going for broke. I noted that actually we were broke and they were just going for everything they could get and sell. Isn’t it our pollies and their fellow travellers, the dairy farmers and irrigators and so on who are welcoming Chinese to come and spend their new money here. I think we should be more concerned about the bods going to Harvard and learning the Right Way of doing laissez faire in the 21st century.

            In our little country the ones who have made money have a lot of sway.
            They are the little men who could, and a fewer little women who don’t have the altruistic notions portrayed in the USA book Little Women. We are being picked over by our own. The Chinese just watch bemused and come along for the ride, along with people from the Indian Continent etc/

            • The Chairman 9.2.1.1.1.1
              16 September 2017 at 10:04 pm

              “Oh so it’s China that’s at the base of everything going wrong in NZ.”

              Not at all. But they are now playing a growing part. By and large, it’s neo-liberalism.

              And that includes all those that are advancing it.

              The Chinese are doing more than just watching and coming along for the ride.

              • Janet …
                17 September 2017 at 7:40 am

                Yes I agree, I have been watching China for some years and back in 2015 Brain Gould was writing articles re China’s rapidly expanding “property manifesto” in NZ.
                But it is happening all over the world not just in NZ.
                If Ron Asher’s book , In The Jaws of the Dragon, is a reds under the beds variation then explain this which I copied and filed several years ago.

                “Like the China agreement the free trade with India comes with conditions. Conditions that our leader isn’t always fond of explaining. For one; we have to agree to allow a set number of Chinese immigrants into NZ per year.”

                Why would there be such a stipulation in a Free Trade agreement ? Is this actually happening ?

                • The Chairman …
                  17 September 2017 at 2:29 pm

                  Apart from the liberalisation of the movement of natural persons, there is no mention of immigration in the China/NZ FTA. And there is no set figure that I’m aware of.

                  As for China’s rapidly expanding property manifesto in NZ, the documentary (Who owns NZ now) touched upon this. We aren’t keeping sufficient records of offshore investors in our property market. And It has been suggested that China’s influence and our unwillingness to rock the boat is behind it.

                  Our investor visa scheme (which is separate from FTAs but is largely utilized by the Chinese) has fast tracked immigration for wealthy offshore investors.

                  • Janet …
                    17 September 2017 at 10:39 pm

                    Yes there is … It says – Phil Goff – free trade agreement with China agreed to allow 1800 extra chinese immigrants into NZ..
                    It is well through – about 3/4 through – the recording .
                    So is that enacted here or not ?

                    • The Chairman …
                      18 September 2017 at 8:33 am

                      It was in reference to the liberalisation of the movement of natural persons, temporary immigrants. That is, temporary for the individual or group, but it’s an ongoing policy within the deal.

            • mikes 9.2.1.1.1.2
              17 September 2017 at 8:03 am

              “The Chinese just watch bemused ….”

              Anyone who believes that has to be naive in the extreme.

              • Janet …
                17 September 2017 at 8:49 am

                Naive to think that a Trade Agreement allowed a set number of Chinese immigrants to come into NZ per year ?

            • greywarshark 9.2.1.1.1.3
              17 September 2017 at 11:27 am

              The Chinese and other great powers don’t make us agree to investments coming into NZ, it’s been done by the ambitious export oriented pollies and business leaders. The Chinese have given us an agreement to trade and we have reciprocated with lots. So we small, them big, they are happy to go along with using the opportunities they have facilitated and we have offered. That is closer to the truth than some of the wilder things that have been said here.

          • The Chairman 9.2.1.1.2
            16 September 2017 at 10:55 pm

            “He’s a “Yellow Peril” arse-wipe from what I can tell”

            Really? What drove you to that conclusion?

            To me, he came across as someone who doesn’t agree with how the Chinese Government operate.

            My argument is China (who is no small player with a large military force) is also playing the neo-liberal game. And just because they are greasing palms instead of dropping bombs it doesn’t make them any less of a threat. And we’ve opened the door for them.

            We have one in National that’s looking dodgy. Labour has a new one, raising some questions. And the Maori party have one that has just recently been accused of political bribery (allegedly offering online cash credits to potential supporters on Chinese social media message app WeChat).

            I’m interested in knowing more on why you don’t value our sovereignty and think its an illegitimate construct?

            • Bill 9.2.1.1.2.1
              16 September 2017 at 11:29 pm

              We’ve opened the door to them. ‘We’ have one in… and Labour has a new one. The MP have one .

              You any idea how utterly fucked in the head that shit you’re spouting is?

              Nek minute you’ll be telling ‘one and all’ that you’ve nothing against Asians or Chinese in particular and that one of your mates is…Chinese…could be Korean…or might be Vietnamese or …well, you’re not sure, but ‘whatever’ they’re all Asian and some of them are okay and you’re not talking about the okay ones, just the bad ones and the bad ones are legion and they’re out to swamp ‘our’ pavlova paradise with weird monogluta addictive mind bending whatevers…

              Tell me.

              Where you think the original geographical location of Pacifica peoples is? And if them supposedly ‘swamping’ and ‘taking over’ is such a big deal then….well, assuming you’ll trace back to Europe heritage wise…..

              And I didn’t say sovereignty was an illegitimate construct (idea). I said that the state is an illegitimate construct.

              • The Chairman …
                16 September 2017 at 11:59 pm

                You may think it’s fucked in the head but it’s the reality.

                Therefore, are you implying I’m incorrect?

                We have a free trade deal with China, yes? Thus, we’ve opened the door to a new big player.

                Jian Yang now looks dodgy, yes?

                Wetex Kang was accused of bribery, yes?

                Labour’s Naisi Chen was the former President of the New Zealand Chinese Students’ Association, yes? 

                I don’t know why you are attempting to make this about race? One was accused of bribery, the other two have questions surrounding their connection to the Communist Party.

              • The Chairman …
                17 September 2017 at 12:13 am

                “I don’t really care too much for a nation state’s sovereignty given it’s an illegitimate construct by my political reasoning.”

                “I didn’t say sovereignty was an illegitimate construct (idea). I said that the state is an illegitimate construct.”

                Sorry, I mistook the first quote.

                So why do you believe the state is an illegitimate construct?

  10. ES Sceptic 10
    16 September 2017 at 12:06 pm

    “It seems to be between Labour and National. If you had asked me before my win I would have erred on the socialist side but now I am more likely to side with National … it is about wanting to protect the future for your whanau. I wouldn’t say I had it hard as some people before my win, but I wouldn’t want the mokopuna to struggle through life.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11922851

    Classic, just goes to show even the socialists will roll over when it comes to $

    [lprent: Diversion comment on post that this does not relate to at all. Banned for 3 months. You seem to be an obnoxious moron with limited . ]

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  11. cleangreen 11
    16 September 2017 at 12:37 pm

    Here’s another reason not to vote for national Lurgee,

    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/09/16/16-political-decisions-that-show-national-dont-care-about-the-environment/

    One that should have been added was National party lack of use of rail and building more roads instead!!!!!!

    Rain-water washes road pollution off our roads into our streams, rivers, lakes, and aquifers, and drinking water.

    National have dismissed removing half the road pollution from stock, fertilizer, fuel, & rubbish trucks off our roads & use rail as a mitigation against “road runoff pollution” from their effluent and other emissions (tyre dust) that 34 wheeler trucks deposit on our roads.

    http://oecdinsights.org/2016/09/08/air-pollution-tyres-and-brakes/

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  12. joe90 12
    16 September 2017 at 1:02 pm

    Thanks peshmerga, but your rights to self-determination are a distraction from our one-Iraq policy disaster.
    //

    White House statement opposing the KRG's referendum on independence. pic.twitter.com/q3zh2ZQYII— DavidKenner (@DavidKenner) September 15, 2017

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-iraq-kurds/iraqs-kurdish-parliament-backs-sept-25-independence-referendum-idUSKCN1BQ2AV

  13. Penny Bright 13
    16 September 2017 at 1:31 pm

    ‪IMO’ Mr Fixit’ Steven Joyce is USELESS.

    In Tamaki only 213 new houses built – 237 gone.‬

    ‪https://www.facebook.com/penny.bright.104/posts/1796625243683493‬

    ‪https://www.companiesoffice.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/5840214/shareholdings‬

    Penny Bright

    2017 Independent candidate for Tamaki

  14. mary_a 14
    16 September 2017 at 4:24 pm

    Some questions ….

    Where is Paula? Is she in hiding? Because she hasn’t been seen in her electorate and has been very quiet of late. Bit of concern about some hard questioning coming up in relation to a previous life perhaps?

    What is happening in the Barclay dirty business (apart from little Toadie doing a runner off to London)? Those 450 texts? Is the police investigation still ongoing? Or has it all been buried?

    What about the Jian Yang issue? Is the SIS still investigating? Or will that one fade away never to see the light of day again?

    We desperately need some investigative journalism in this country to expose the murky activities of this grubby corrupt government!

      • Anne 14.1.1
        16 September 2017 at 7:41 pm

        Me too.

        Instead we get an apparent rant (no I haven’t read it and I don’t intend to) from John Armstrong on the evil machinations of Jacinda Ardern – a 2017 version of the crack-pot rant against David Cunliffe in 2014. You know, the one where he accused Cunliffe of every evil sin under the sun, and then later withdrew and apologised after the election was over.

  17. Hanswurst 17
    16 September 2017 at 4:43 pm

    I’m usually a dog man, but I’m undergoing a conversion

    A dog man, Mr. English? Is that like a Minotaur? That would certainly explain a lot.

  18. Glenn 18
    16 September 2017 at 5:00 pm

    Jacindas out door speech to the masses (and there were quite a lot of us on this raw blustery New Plymouth day) was received well by a wide range of ages.

    Half way through I heard singing and chanting getting louder and I feared the worst..a bunch of Taranaki cow cockies on the rampage. Then they came into view, a party of pirates. I counted about 80, mainly in good quality fancy dress, not jeans and scarf on the head type of things, marching past having a good time.

    They sent 2 envoys carrying their flag to talk to Jacinda evidently moaning about the government being mean and unfair to pirates etc. She laughed, said she would talk to them later and they commandeered the pub across the road.

    Good to see such a lot of folk having a great time. Daughter said it was the annual Pirate Day pub crawl…not being on Facebook I miss out on news of these things.

    • Cinny 18.1
      16 September 2017 at 7:19 pm

      Awesome especially considering the weather, it’s like where ever Jacinda goes loads of people turn out to see her, it’s amazing to see the response, what a good buzz.

      The pirates would have been an absolute treat, so much goodness

  19. Herodotus 19
    16 September 2017 at 5:50 pm

    Perhaps becoming the next government will not start off well in being able to fulfill the need to build houses in Auckland.
    To those following the picture of the building industry there are some uneasy ndicators out there, same with houses selling being 20% down from last year.
    Martin Dunn, of estate agency City Sales, said Australian banks had “pulled the plug” on the New Zealand apartment market and were refusing to give would-be buyers the remaining 90 per cent for their mortgage
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11922859
    In the past year alone 35 apartment projects in Auckland were reportedly axed, including the Flo Apartments project in Avondale, which would have had 91 apartments, each priced from $370,000.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/315433/wary-banks-blamed-for-dropped-housing-projects

    • Bill 20.1
      16 September 2017 at 6:46 pm

      Okay. That’s kinda scary shit. Just to pick out one of a number of points raised in the politico piece…

      They (Ziska and his colleagues from the the U.S. Department of Agriculture) found that the protein content of goldenrod pollen has declined by a third since the industrial revolution—and the change closely tracks with the rise in CO2. Scientists have been trying to figure out why bee populations around the world have been in decline, which threatens many crops that rely on bees for pollination. Ziska’s paper suggested that a decline in protein prior to winter could be an additional factor making it hard for bees to survive other stressors.

  21. marty mars 21
    16 September 2017 at 6:53 pm

    Calling Sci Fi writers – this could be a good opportunity from JMG’s new blog http://www.ecosophia.net/

    So we’re going to do it. You can find the details at http://www.solarsystemheritage.com/anthology-project-2017.html, but the short form is that we’re looking for short stories (2500-7500 words), novelettes (7500-12,500 words) and maybe a novella (12,500 words on up) set in the Old Solar System. What kind of stories? You name it. Two-(or more-)fisted tales of adventure like C.L. Moore, solar system noir like Leigh Brackett, interplanetary travel with a religious dimension like C.S. Lewis, Old Solar System horror like Clark Ashton Smith – you name it, so long as it takes place in the imaginary solar system of the classic science fiction era. You can—indeed, you should—put your own twist on ancient and desolate Mars, lush Venus, or whatever other world or worlds you choose for a setting—and yes, Earth is also an option!—but it should fit more or less cleanly into the grand collective work of art that was the Old Solar System.

    http://www.ecosophia.net/the-worlds-that-never-were/

  22. marty mars 22
    16 September 2017 at 7:51 pm

    Nice initiative

    “Inspired by the People’s Climate March and its hundreds of thousands of participants, Rebecca Foon and Jesse Paris Smith founded Pathway to Paris in 2015. Created as a way to keep the momentum alive, the organization is a collaboration between musicians, artists, cities and activists to help turn the Paris Agreement into real action. ”

    Among a river of poetic points offered by the senior (Patti) Smith, she stressed the importance of not giving into the gloom; of how to use a positive attitude as a tool of resistance.

    “When I worked with Ralph Nader, one of the things that he taught us was that nothing productive comes from negativity or pessimism,” she said. “So it’s important not to be drawn into a state of pessimism or paralysis, one has to take a breath and rise above it. I’m not saying that as rhetoric, I’m saying it as an action, as what I have to do myself. I feel the same way that you feel, that everyone else feels, but I refuse to be trampled by it, I refuse to be demoralized; I just keep on doing my work, our work.”

    “And even something such as this concert, it makes me feel that each thing that we do, whether we did a concert yesterday, or we’re doing this November 5, we’re partnering with each other, we’re connecting the dots,” she added. “So we have to sometimes not turn a blind eye, but keep our eyes on what we’re trying to do, not on what is being done to dismantle our efforts.”

    https://www.treehugger.com/climate-change/patti-smith-rising-above-and-fighting-climate-change-art.html

    I love what Patti Smith is saying there – pessimism and paralysis help no one. They are the weapons of the oppressors – rise above it, breathe and keep working to make the world a better place.

  23. Patricia Bremner 23
    16 September 2017 at 10:32 pm

    That is what Jacinda understands. Working from positive energy creates an energy feedback loop.